'What If Fuentes Stormed a Synagogue!?' Benny Johnson vs Ethan Klein On Don Lemon, Epstein & ICE

17:23Ethan Klein:Respectfully, you are a disgraced person. You should get your facts right, my friend. There was a free fundraising request and no quid pro quo. Read the case. Were you in prison? Were you found guilty of corruption? I was wrongfully convicted for non-crimes by the use of jury instructions that were not crimes and sent to prison for 14 years. Never took a penny because I fought back. And I fought back against this kind of weaponization. You tried to take a penny. You in this particular case. You said, quote, this seat is golden about the seat you are attempting to sell No, I said this seat is effing gold.

17:59Ethan Klein:I'm not giving up for nothing to make a political deal because Obama asked to make a political deal. Get your facts right. And by the way, 98 % of those FBI tapes are still covered up to this day. The judge got the facts right. You don't have the facts right. You got parted by Trump. You're out here glazing him up. We know the deal. But the truth is, don't sit here and act like you have any legitimate clout. You have no legitimacy in this world. You're a criminal. and you use the American democracy like a piggy bank. Like, again, you should, the only microphone you should be near is Starbucks order.

18:33Ethan Klein:You know, let me say this. I would never give in to those weaponized prosecutors. What they did to me at the AAA level to a Democrat governor, the same kind of people did that same thing to President Trump at the major league level. And it's wrong if you do it to me. It all comes down to your savior, Donald Trump. And it's wrong if you do it to Don Lemon. And the key to a democracy is an informed electorate. You need to get your facts right, my friend, and get yourself informed. You need to get your facts right, sir. I know my facts. Let's not compare. Hold on. The judge said, uh, jail. The judge and jury said, me.

19:07Ethan Klein:Let's not compare you, jail. They tried me twice. That's you, buddy. You know what? All right, guys. Go ahead. Guys, I think we're drifting. We are drifting. We are drifting off. Respectfully, we're drifting. We're drifting off topic. And I'll say.

19:21Piers Morgan:Ethan, let's get back to the topic.

19:23Ethan Klein:I agree. So he agrees that Don Lemon shouldn't be arrested. So I'll say even this Trump lackey is willing to make that concession where someone like Benny here, who, let's be real, his overlords go beyond Donald Trump. He's accountable to the Russians who paid him a nice, hefty, beautiful hundreds of thousands from tenant media. So more than that again. Well, we don't know. Maybe Benny can tell us how much they paid him. The DOJ said that I was victim of a crime. I'm sorry. The DOJ says you can respond. I am victim of a crime in that me, Tim Poole, Dave Rubin and a number of others. So so which is it?

20:03Ethan Klein:Are you like so what? So which is it, Benny? Are you smarter than the Biden? Are you a fool? How about being an overlord, having an overlord lacking? Are you a traitor? Are you a traitor or a fool? Those are the two options. Do you know what?

20:14Piers Morgan:The ad hominem stuff. Ethan, Ethan, Ethan. It's not ad hominem, Pierce. That's what happened. They're fine. It's total ad hominem, Pierce. They are ad hominem attacks. I'm not attacking your person. I'm just recounting what happened. I don't want to spend, with respect to everybody, I don't want to spend the entire panel talking about individuals on the panel. Can we go to the top of that? Ethan, just give me your assessment of what's happened with Don Lemon.

20:40Ethan Klein:Gladly. So I agree with the majority on the panel that, I mean, he should he did nothing. He walked in there as a journalist recording. He said you guys are very keen to talk about what he said on camera. But you forget this one, Benny. He said, quote, I'm not part of the group. I'm a journalist. Talk about we, we, we, which is like a words game. It's semantics. But again, you go back to what he actually said. And it's quote, I am not a part of the group. I am a journalist. so you know i think the whole conversation is just stupid at this point because it's like it's so obvious that this was just done as a revenge at a spite it's political spite there's literally no question to it and i think he would agree he's like yeah it's spite so pierce you had

21:25Benny Johnson:you had valentina if you recall on your show about a month ago i think we both agree she's despicable she's running for office in texas she went into a church there's video of this a month ago, and she called the churchgoers pedophiles. They asked her to leave. Multiple people asked her to leave. I'm sure Benny's not talking about this, or he'll say, I don't know anything about that. But she didn't leave right away. It's all on video. She stormed a church. She called people pedophiles. Not only is she not arrested, but the DOJ is not even investigating this case. So this is a double standard at a minimum.

22:00Benny Johnson:Don Lemon didn't break any laws. He wasn't harassing anybody. I'm sorry if a few kids were crying and their church service was disturbed. I really am sorry about that. But I care a little bit more about Renee Good's family and the fact that her kids are growing up without a mother. But people like Benny don't want a full investigation into that. Let's call these people who are murdered domestic terrorists and assassins. But boy, that guy, Don Lemon, I can't believe he stormed the church and he did a couple interviews. Benny, give me a break.

22:30Ethan Klein:uh i can you know i can sit here and be logically consistent in my worldview which is that you should not storm places of worship period i don't want anybody on the left doing it i don't want anybody doing it i i'm saying you shouldn't do that and i also agree i mean i i know this is going to sound crazy but i also agree with probably everyone on this panel which is that don lemon is a uh black hole narcissist he spent 30 years in cable news he's going to use this he's going to use this to, he's going to use this. He is a narcissist that pulls literally the gravity in on himself. He's going to use this for further power and further popularity.

23:08Ethan Klein:And so you're going to have to bring the receipts when it comes to prosecuting the wrong women. Everyone said this. This is what happens with high profile prosecutions. You have to be able to bring the receipts. If you actually read the grand jury testimony, which I find this remarkable, by the way. Every one of these people on the panels probably tweeted, no one's above the law. Nobody's above the law. No one's above the law. Well, it was a grand jury in dark blue Minnesota that said Don Lemon deserves to be arrested and indicted. It was a grand jury that did that. So is somebody above the law or not?

23:43Benny Johnson:I want to go back to what Benny just said.

23:45Ethan Klein:The idea that Donald Trump is sitting in his office, Donald Trump's sitting in his office, like pointing and saying, they arrest that man. That's not how this works. And then one other thing, I find it amazing that you say like, little Christian children, I don't care if little, I'm sorry that little Christian children were crying and weeping and sobbing in their church. Have you talked to the church pastor? I've spoken with the pastor of that church, Jonathan Parnell. So let me respond. Benny just called my friend Don Lennon. were terrorizing the little children in the church. I can't believe that you're sitting there in favor of this.

24:25Ethan Klein:You can see the photographs of the kids crying in their parents' arms. What happened here was immoral. It's despicable. It is indefensible. It's utterly indefensible. Places of worship should not be stormed by anyone, period. I'm okay with those protesters being charged, but he appears on limit to not do any of that.

24:43Benny Johnson:All right, Brian, very quick response,

24:46Piers Morgan:and then I want to change topic after Brian's very quick response to that.

24:50Benny Johnson:First of all, I don't believe you should protest in a church or private property. I'm not condoning that behavior, number one. Number two, you just called my friend Don Lemon a narcissist. You are the same guy that is a shill for Donald Trump. So I don't want to hear somebody like Benny Johnson who supports Donald Trump. Again, I'm just like, again, like he was on Piers' show. Watch the interview with Piers.

25:10Ethan Klein:Piers, what would you like on your show? Like, it is what it is, you know? It is what it is. People have big egos in this profession, and it's fine, you know, it's fine. I'm literally saying I'm saying that you better come correct when you're bringing the receipts and when you're charging this guy. That's all I'm saying is I like, yes, you're right. I think everybody on this panel agrees that Don Lemon will then, you know, utilize this. We saw it at the Grammys last night, you know, for more power fame. And I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a job back in TV. He was fired by CNN.

25:39Ethan Klein:I wouldn't be surprised if he got a job back in TV.

25:41Benny Johnson:That's all. You have no idea what Don Lemon wants or doesn't want to do. Benny you don't know him personally like I do I can tell you he is not a narcissist the narcissist is the orange turd who you support because you were the Donald Trump knee pads 24 7 so don't

25:55Ethan Klein:talk about tax that's right got it more okay I want to talk about journalists Benny I mean let's

26:03Piers Morgan:start with you buddy no let's not go down how much they pay you we really need to know let's not get into this I don't want to get into individual panel members let's try and keep it hold on

26:15Benny Johnson:Don Lemon will not be convicted. I guarantee you Don Lemon will not be convicted of these crimes. He will be exonerated in a courtroom. He has a great attorney. He's going to be fine.

26:24Piers Morgan:I think you're probably right. But I think also Don Lemon, I've been watching his output. I've been watching Don's output in the last few days and he's gone full on Trump derangement madness. I mean, it's just he's he's anti-Trump and blinding about Trump. Don Lemon said... And by the way, it's fine. He's making a financial play. He's making a financial play, but let's be under no illusion. Don's raison d 'etre now is to be the number one Trump hater in the world media. That's fine, but let's not pretend that's not what he's doing.

26:57Ethan Klein:I'm R.J. Decker, the private investigator, uncovering the sunshine state's darkest secrets. Tuesdays, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show. R.J. freaking Decker has that live and breathe. He's a private eye. It's not a standard murder. It's someone bigger. And a public mass. Trying to get someone back to prison today? You go to prison one time and suddenly it's all the jokes. R.J. Decker, series premiere, Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu. He went on Jen Welch's podcast afterwards and said he's going after this church because of white supremacy. Because the parishioners were white.

27:34Ethan Klein:Are you in favor of that? You know, this is like a hate crime. I'll answer that. I'll answer that. Are you in favor of that? He said it. There's multiple clips of it. It's a black hole if you want to talk about hate crimes. That's a space term. That's a term. That's something that exists in the galaxy. Can I answer?

27:49Benny Johnson:Because I asked him about this because he's done my show probably five times in the last month. So he believes there is something in this country called white privilege, Benny. You have it and I have it. He does believe there are some cases in the church or in America where there is white supremacy. Now, I know you probably believe there isn't anything like Tucker Carlson that white privilege doesn't exist in this country and white supremacy doesn't exist. But the fact of the matter is, Benny, is that it does. Now, I would like to go back to the black hole comment. What did you mean by that when you made that statement?

28:20Ethan Klein:I'm surprised you didn't call him a gay black hole. Black hole is something that exists in space and time, and it absorbs gravity. And so it's just something that Don Lemon is going to take the gravity of the situation and use it to become more powerful. That's what I've said. And I said that the Trump administration has to be very careful in charging this because this is what people do in these kind of circumstances if you're Don Lemon. I'll tell you what he won't do. Sure.

28:50Benny Johnson:So, Benny, I'll tell you what Don Lemon won't do. He won't make billions of dollars in a crypto scandal. He won't build a ballroom for his own financial gain. Jared Kushner, one of his friends, won't be taking$2.1 billion from the Saudis. So if you want about taking power over and having power and taking advantage of it, sure, Don Lemon's going to be more successful because of this. But do you know why? Because of the buffoons in the White House that decided to charge this guy. And I think most of us agree on this panel, it's not going to hold up in a courtroom. So if you have anybody to blame for this, it's not Don Lemon.

29:21Benny Johnson:It's the morons like Pam Bondi and Donald Trump that did this to Don Lemon, which will help him more in the long run. But please don't talk to me and lecture me about power and then taking advantage of that.

29:31Ethan Klein:I find this amazing what you just admitted here, and I'm trying to be respectful as you're rambling. So you just said that it's OK that Don Lemon attacked this church because they're white?

29:42Benny Johnson:So first of all, Don Lemon made general terms about the church. He wasn't specifically talking about an individual. He wasn't specifically talking about an individual group of people in the church. He made very generic and general claims, which I agree with him, that white supremacy in this country is a problem and white privilege in this country is a problem as well. And if you don't agree with that, that there is something called white privilege and that, yes, white supremacy is an issue in this country, then you can take the page from Tucker Carlson and have the blinders on and be complicit.

30:13Benny Johnson:Benny, that's up to you.

30:15Piers Morgan:I do think it's probably worth bearing in mind at this stage that Don is married, I think, to a rather wealthy, privileged, elitist white man, isn't he?

30:26Benny Johnson:Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't deny that. That's fine. But that's not the point that Don Lemon was trying to make. I understand.

30:32Piers Morgan:He seems a very nice chap, but he is white and privileged. I want to change the subject. I want to move on to the Epstein scandal. Rod, I want to bring you in here. The Epstein scandal is raging ever bigger, but accountability is still really not moving, particularly in America. So in the UK, the human being formerly known as Prince Andrew, now Andrew Manbatten-Windsor, he's been brought down. He's been finished. Lord Mandelson is probably very soon not going to be a lord and may well be facing a police investigation as we speak. I'm in a diaper. He's finished. So a lot of British people who've been named in these files are being brought to book and dealt with.

31:15Piers Morgan:No high-profile Americans so far. Why?

31:20Ethan Klein:Well, I mean, the wheels of justice sometimes move slowly. I think more information is coming out. And as a result of that, I think you're going to see action because some of this information has been suppressed, like the 98 % of the FBI tapes on my case to the guy with the Campbell cap. No, I think I think eventually some people will be brought to justice. I mean, here again, you don't want to, you know, over prosecute. You don't want to jump to conclusions and maybe charge somebody like a Don Lemon for something that may not be a crime. I think you're going to be very careful with something like this, because if you're accused of something like this, your life is destroyed.

31:55Ethan Klein:You know, very notable people are now caught up in Epstein, those relationships. President Clinton, for one Bill Gates, for another, not just Prince Andrew. And, you know, I was in politics and meet a lot of people along the way. Thank goodness I never met him. But it's very likely that most of the people that intersected with Epstein had nothing to do with any of that stuff, didn't know anything about it. And so I think it's I think it's prudent that whatever prosecutions come, it's done judiciously and carefully because these are very, very serious allegations. They should be prosecuted if, in fact, there's probable cause that someone did something to a child.

32:32Ethan Klein:But again, you don't want to destroy somebody's life when you jump the gun. At what point are we going to take a look at your friend Donald Trump? OK, here we go with this guy.

32:39Piers Morgan:Let me ask Benny. Hang on, hang on, hang on. I want to ask Benny this. So, Benny, it seems to me, I've taken a position on this from the start, that if you distanced yourself completely from Epstein after his conviction for being a pedophile, then, OK, you've got plausible deniability. You didn't know what kind of guy he was. He was a big socialite, wealthy guy, mixing with the rich and famous and powerful. But then he got a conviction for a sex crime against a minor. At that point, there's no confusion about who he is. And yet we see people like Elon Musk, for example, the richest man in the world, owner of X, who has been on a sort of rampage the last few days of trying to justify why he's the knight in shining armour about all this.

33:29Piers Morgan:He blew the whistle. He's the one demanding prosecutions, but repeatedly saying, I never, I turned down all invitations to the island, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And yet we're seeing in real time emails which directly contradict that. Not that he ever went to the island, but he certainly expressed a keenness to go there and wanted to know when the wildest parties were taking place and so on. And it just, you know, as I've said on this show already, it's the little things, like when he was Prince Andrew, it's the little things where if they're not telling the truth about the little stuff, what else are they not telling the truth about?

34:08Piers Morgan:Are you concerned that we're seeing a lot of people who, you know, Howard Lutnick, another one, you know, I never saw him again after whatever date it was, and then we know that's not true now. A lot of the chronology that these people are trying to paint has been destroyed by the reality of the documentary evidence from these files. What do you make of that?

34:30Ethan Klein:Yeah, you're exactly right. There is two different distinct timelines for people that were dealing with Jeffrey Epstein. There's pre-prosecution in Florida for pedophilia, child trafficking, underage abuse of young women. This is what Jeffrey Epstein was charged with. And then there's dealing with him after those prosecutions. And of course, he pled to those charges. He then was put inside of his own wing of a low security prison. He was allowed to go home on the weekends. Alex Acosta was the federal prosecutor there in the Bush era, by the way, which is frankly something that I'd really like to look into.

35:09Ethan Klein:Like, why the hell did Jeffrey Epstein get to skate on these early charges? If you stack up the charges against Jeffrey Epstein there, it was in 2006 to 2008. George Bush was president. Robert Mueller was in charge of the FBI. These charges should have landed him in prison for the rest of his life. None of us should be having this conversation. Jeffrey Epstein should be rotting in a prison cell for his crimes that he was that he pled to in 2006 and through 2008, his prosecution. Why the hell was all of the people that were with him given immunity like Jelaine Maxwell? Why did that happen? I think this is ultimately the real question, because there's a lot of people.

35:52Ethan Klein:I have a real question, Benny. It's a scummy behavior. So why would this is like the real question? Let Benny finish. And let me just finish my let me just finish my thought here, because, like, you know, everyone's going to sit here and accuse me of being a shill for the Republican Party. Listen, George Bush was president during this time. Alex Acosta was working for George Bush. Alex Acosta said, don't charge Jeffrey Epstein back off. He belongs to Intel. There's something so much deeper that is going on here. And what we're seeing in the three million files, photographs and videos that have been released is certainly threads of Jeffrey Epstein on a state level being a state actor.

36:28Ethan Klein:We're running a compromise operation against some of those powerful people, including members of royal families, heads of state, Ehud Barak, a ton of other people that were all ensnared in this very rich. But all I'm trying to say here is that, like, we shouldn't even we shouldn't be talking about Jeffrey Epstein because that evil son of a bitch. should be in prison right now for the rest of his life, rotting in jail for the rest of his life.

36:53Benny Johnson:But Benny, with respect.

36:55Ethan Klein:I wish we could get back as to who was it that prevented that from happening? Because that should be interesting.

37:03Benny Johnson:I find it interesting that Blanche is the guy that said the other day in a press conference that there's really no more investigations here. We're probably not going to find anybody else. I'm paraphrasing here. I also find it interesting that only about 50 % of the files have been released. Benny, Donald Trump has called people like you and me stupid for even talking about this. He's been doing everything he can to try to prevent the truth from coming out. And if the defense is, well, why didn't Joe Biden do this? First of all, you mentioned Maxwell. She was under trial, open investigation, and then there was an appeal.

37:34Benny Johnson:That's number two there. And I would also go as far as to say this. The fact of the matter is, is that Donald Trump is all over the Epstein files hundreds of times. What did Dan Bongino do about it? What did Kash Patel do about it? Well, they say that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. There's nothing to see here. We had all these people out there with binders, people like you, Benny. People out there with binders.

37:57Ethan Klein:I didn't hold any binders. Go ahead. Dude, get your facts straight. Like, I'm not going to defend the non-release of Epstein evidence. I'm not going to defend it. Like, I think it was a total mistake. I think it was a total mistake. I'm really glad to see three million documents out. I want all of them out. I will join with you and say I want all that. I can be intellectually consistent on all of this. Everybody who committed a crime, everyone who committed a crime, like everyone who committed a crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'm enraged. Let me ask Benny a question.

38:27Benny Johnson:I'm enraged.

38:28Ethan Klein:It doesn't really bother me that Jeffrey Epstein was allowed to skate because, and I quote, he belongs to Intel.

38:33Benny Johnson:One question. Benny, one quick question. Does it bother you? Hold on. Does it bother you, Benny, that Donald Trump is all over the Epstein Falls? regardless of whether you think there's criminal activity or not. I'm asking you, man to man, does it, is it problematic to you? I guess that's the right word to use. That Donald Trump was his best friend for over 10 years. That Donald Trump was at least eight times on the, on the plane. We learned that in the Maxwell trial. He was on the flight log. Does it bother you? He's all over the Epstein files at all.

39:00Ethan Klein:What, what, what criminal allegations are you talking about?

39:04Benny Johnson:Over a thousand times. The question isn't a criminal allegation. I'm asking, Benny, pay attention does it bother you and do you think it's problematic i am paying attention okay does it bother you that donald trump associated himself with jeffrey epstein from that period of time and he's all over the epstein files because joe biden's not in the epstein files barack obama's not in the epstein files kamala harris isn't in the epstein files

39:27Ethan Klein:did barack obama's white house council barack obama's white house council katherine rummler is all over the Epstein files, including attempting to set up meetings with Obama while he was in. Let me rephrase that question. She was getting lavish with GIFs. She was getting lavish with GIFs. Don't necessarily want to answer the question. Benny, please. Yes. Let me ask you a question. Answer the question. Does it bother you? I don't talk all once.

39:55Piers Morgan:Don't all talk all once. I would ask Ethan this question. I'd phrase it slightly differently. I've not seen anything, and correct me if I'm wrong here, But where is the damning evidence that Donald Trump continued to consult with Epstein post his conviction? Because that is the line I draw with all of these high profile people. You can say what you like. For example, take Elon Musk. If Elon Musk said, which is entirely believable, that he had no idea about Epstein's conviction. This is what Richard Branson said. He didn't know until they did a bit of a deep dive into him. Then it emerged. I didn't know Epstein at all, or that he had a conviction, for example.

40:38Piers Morgan:I never met him, never mixed in his circles, whatever. So it would have been a surprise to me. I'm just surprised that Elon Musk, rather than saying, I didn't know about that conviction and that would have changed everything, given how strong he's been, for example, about the grooming gang scandal in the UK. But he hasn't done that. What he said is, I never accepted invitations to be on the island when we have seen all the emails from him, you know, pleading to go on the island. So that's the problem I have with it. So I think with Trump, I've not seen anything incriminating that happens after the conviction.

41:11Piers Morgan:So, you know, Trump can say, as he has been, the moment I knew what he was, I ditched him like a sack of spuds. And people that took that position at least can say with some sincerity, once I knew he was a convicted pedophile, I didn't see him again.

41:29Ethan Klein:Um, yeah, I agree with you that essentially there's no smoking gun with Trump post his conviction. I think mostly people, I mean, are rightfully concerned when you see that he appears a thousand times throughout the leaks. Right. And I mean, the guy was very close with him. There's pictures of him like looking at young girls and talking about how hot they are with with a known trap. Well, he didn't wasn't known as a trafficker then. But I think people are rightful questioning his character. That being said, there's no smoking gun that he was associated with him afterwards. For example, Elon Musk wrote him an email that said, when is the wildest party?

42:11Ethan Klein:Now, who would ask a convicted known trafficker, when is their wildest party on their island? Right. Like like even you can say, oh, I didn't know. But listen, he did know this is Epstein. He was a socialite, a New York socialite. These people all know each other. They know. Why is he asking him to party? He knows him because he's the party guy. He's the guy. Hey, I got the girls. Yeah. Age optional.

42:39Benny Johnson:And I'll add something to that. I agree with everything you just said. There are there are victims and there are people that made statements to the FBI with the possibility threatened of perjury if they were lying. I tend to believe those victims, but this is a pattern of behavior with Donald Trump. The 25 plus women that have come forward that have accused him of sexual assault or rape. The hiding, not wanting to talk about Jeffrey Epstein. It's very strange. He doesn't want to talk about it. He calls everybody stupid who even brings it up. And again, I go back to E. Jean Carroll. I go back to him sexualizing his own daughter.

43:10Benny Johnson:I go back to him bragging about going into teenage girls locker rooms on the Howard Stern show in a beauty pageant that he ran. So there is a history. Now, is there, is it criminally? Have you proven anything in the court of law? Obviously not. But I think where there's smoke, there's fire. And I absolutely believe that the 3 million files that we haven't seen yet, keep that in mind, half the files we haven't even seen yet, they've already released these files that I think are pretty damning to Donald Trump. Imagine what's left that they haven't released yet. So let's wait and see. I agree with Benny.

43:40Benny Johnson:Okay, I don't disagree. I don't disagree with that.

43:44Piers Morgan:And I mean, this is the guy who said grab him by the pussy, right? What about Benny? Benny has said very clearly he thinks they should all be released. All right, look, Benny, we're running out of time. But Benny, I want to just... Hang on a second, Ron. I just want to get the take on Clinton here. I just want to get the take on Clinton.

44:00Ethan Klein:I'll give you the take. Because there are photos of Clinton in the hot tub. There are photos of Clinton in the hot tub. I made a video yesterday defending Elon Musk. Do not let him get away from that.

44:08Benny Johnson:I'll give you the take on Bill Clinton. Benny, you ready for this? Because I'm not a show for anybody, Benny. I'll answer your question directly. I believe that both Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, have done some very bad things to young women. But here's the difference between me and you, okay? I don't defend Bill Clinton ad nauseum. You defend Donald Trump. Yeah, none of us do. I want, if you're, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, I want you held to the highest standard of the law, and I want justice for the victims. I don't play whataboutism. I agree with you that, yeah, Bill Clinton probably did some very bad things as well.

44:38Benny Johnson:But guess what? Bill Clinton is not the leader of the free world right now. Donald Trump is. And I have yet to see you actually make the case or make a claim that, yeah, Donald Trump probably did some very bad things with Jeffrey Epstein. I will admit that I wouldn't doubt the fact that Bill Clinton has done that. Are you willing to agree with me with some middle ground here and say, yeah, Donald Trump also probably did some bad things? Will you admit that right now on Pierce-Morning?

45:00Ethan Klein:No, of course not, because there's no evidence. Of course not. Because you're a cop, that's why. But you're saying that when Donald Trump was president, leader of the free world. Hold on. When Bill Clinton was leader of the free world, he lied under oath about cheating on his wife for this intern. Again, nobody's defending Bill Clinton. He's in the office. Nobody's defending Bill Clinton. You know what I think? You know what I think? Everyone's talking about Trump. This is the up. Guys, here's the bottom line. Here's the bottom line.

45:27Piers Morgan:With Trump and Bill Clinton, I think the level of embarrassment about their association with Epstein is not dissimilar, actually. Rod, what would you like to say before I just go to Benny for one last word about your investigation in California? So, Rod.

45:43Ethan Klein:No, I think the record should reflect that of all the people we've talked about in this conversation, Donald Trump is the only one who actually kicked Epstein out of a place and barred him from Mar-a-Lago when he learned that there were reasons to think that there was some creepy activity going on. It's true. But it's more yet. You know what, Rod? Nobody else did.

46:01Piers Morgan:Yes. I think it's a reasonable point. I just think the bottom line for Trump is he appears to have distanced himself from Epstein after the conviction. and I do think that gives him a better position for defending himself than the ones who carried on. Because, you know, if you carry on seeing a guy when he's convicted of being a pedophile, it means you don't care that he abuses underage kids. Period. Benny, I just want to end very quickly with you, with this extraordinary video you put out exposing a massive fraud in California. Just summarise it quickly.

46:34Ethan Klein:I thought you were going to say the one he defended, Elon Musk, associating with Epstein that he posted yesterday. I guess we got confused about which video. You can address either one, Benny. All right, Benny. As Piers just said. Yeah, you defended Elon Musk yesterday. Hold on. Emailing somebody isn't a crime. I think we should be focused on crimes when it comes to Epstein. Which is the wildest party? When is the wildest party he asked a known trafficker? It doesn't mean he committed any crime. Okay, fine, but let's not sit there and act like this is all innocent, Like Benny did in his YouTube video yesterday as he continues to shill for either Trump or the Russians.

47:14Ethan Klein:All right.

47:14Piers Morgan:I want to give Benny the chance to talk about very quickly his investigation in California. Benny.

47:24Ethan Klein:So California is the epicenter of all fraud. They spend$31 billion on their homeless crisis. That's$170 ,000 per homeless person. And the result of that is that homelessness has increased exponentially in California, as has federal funding of the homeless crisis in California. Those dollars are being stolen in amounts that are staggering. That makes Somali fraud in Minnesota look like pennies. And it's time for a full scale federal investigation. We were able to uncover hundreds of millions of dollars of theft. This comes on the heels of other major frauds in California, including the theft of federal funding for unemployment, COVID.

48:10Ethan Klein:And this is why you have a state that still can't repay their COVID loans. California is an absolute nightmare, and it's why they're going to lose five electoral seats in the next 2030 census because people cannot get out fast enough. Nonetheless, Gavin Newsom wants to run for president. So I think that it is, and he is absolutely already running for president right now. And so I think it's worth a heavy, critical look at how he has managed what I would argue the most resource rich and the crown jewel of America, the state of California, one of the most beautiful and gifted states, and how he's run it truly into the ground.

48:47Ethan Klein:And so that's what we're doing. We're doing a full investigation. Nick Shirley is also out there. Nick Shirley is also out there right now. And so we look forward to his investigation as well. I'd like to respond if I may.

48:58Piers Morgan:Thank you very much. Well, finally, thank you. Thanks, guys. Have your final word.

49:02Ethan Klein:At a time when ICE is rolling up to people in unmarked vehicles and unmarked outfits, carrying people off the street and taking off in a van, when we have fascism marching into America now, who gives a shit about what's going on in California, right? There's nothing more urgent than what is happening right now with ICE. There's zero accountability.

49:27Piers Morgan:Well, you can give a shit about both. Surely, look, I think you can give a shit about both. Actually, I think you can, but at the moment, you can give a shit about ICE and what's going on, and you can give a shit about corruption.

49:37Ethan Klein:Yeah, but I think one is much more urgent. I think Benny is intentionally bearing the lead here. I think we're sleepwalking into fascist police overreach, and I want to say fuck ICE and get the fuck out.

49:51Benny Johnson:Piers, can I just end by saying one quick thing, one quick statement?

49:55Piers Morgan:Well I can't I can't have people Making endless more statements This isn't the Grammys It's not the Grammys Where you all queue up To say fuck ice So I'm afraid I'm calling it I'm calling it there We're allowed one fuck ice Before we finish Thank you Pierce Let me just say

50:11Benny Johnson:I'm sorry about your fall I'm glad you're recovering I'm glad you're feeling better I was worried about you We need people like you Doing these kinds of shows I respect you a lot Pierce And I'm glad you're feeling better We've got to get you Get you back and healthy again So I'm glad you're back.

50:26Ethan Klein:Thank you, man. I appreciate it. I want to just thank you for knowing your place and piping down and not speaking too much, as your opinion is basically worth nothing. So thank you, Governor.

50:37Piers Morgan:Why don't we end on the happier note that Brian left us with? Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thanks, Pierce. Returning to Uncensored now is Glenn Beck, the founder of Blaze Media. Glenn, great to have you back.

50:50Benny Johnson:Thank you. Thank you. Good to be back.

50:52Piers Morgan:I feel like even though we talk to each other every few months, so much happens, even in a calendar week at the moment in the news cycle. Have you ever known any period in your career where the news cycle is so frenzied?

51:09Benny Johnson:No, you know, I thought about that the other day. I'm approaching my 49th year in broadcast and never have I seen anything like this. Barack Obama sped things up. He, you know, kind of overwhelmed and short-circuited the system in a way. And I thought that was fast. This is between what Donald Trump is doing on the world stage and, and, you know, politically here, what is happening at the escalation of violence and, And these protests, I've never seen anything like it. Anything like it. It's reminiscent of certain time periods, but nothing like this.

51:54Piers Morgan:On the protests, let's take that first, given you've mentioned it. Because I think you have quite a nuanced take on what's been happening here with both Alex Praty and Rene Gook. And I think it's probably not dissimilar to mine. And correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you've said. But my gut feeling, having watched these videos, like everybody, from every angle multiple times, is I don't think that these ICE agents set out to be cold-blooded murderers or assassins. And nor do I think that the victims were entirely blameless of putting themselves into a situation which escalated. However, neither deserve to die.

52:36Piers Morgan:And the general febrile atmosphere that led to their deaths is a direct result, I think, of overreach by ICE, fueled by the administration or particular members of that administration, and that it's got completely out of control. And that Donald Trump, I think, in the last few days, recognized this and has put the reins on it.

53:01Benny Johnson:so i think i think i agree with most of what you said first of all thank you for being an adult a lot of people in the world and especially america cannot hold two thoughts at once anymore you can be a protester and have a right to protest and also you know be surrounded by insurrectionists but not be one yourself you can be a cop and really do your job and make a mistake and somebody dies and doesn't make you a bad person i mean two thoughts two thoughts um yes and And that's what I believe happened at both of these things. I do believe, I mean, you know, we expose some radical ties. And whether they themselves were radicals or not, I'm not sure.

53:42Benny Johnson:But I know the ties were there to, you know, these Turtle Island Marxist kind of things. And I'm not saying they either one of them believed in it, but they were tied to those organizations and were involved with those organizations. and turtle island is basically a way of saying america is not legitimate it belongs to the native american and the white man should have never been here and it all should be wiped off um there's no there's very few people actually believe that but i think those are the radicals that are actually in charge and then most people on the streets i think are either some of them good intention because they think that something is wrong or wildly misinformed and unuseful idiot I think the administration made some wrong moves on the way they handled after Renee Good was killed.

54:36Benny Johnson:I think the way they came out about that, I think, was a mistake. That only riled things up more. But you also have to look at the political situation in Minnesota. There is more fraud in Minnesota with the state government, and the governor knew about it. there's more fraud than I think we've ever found in American history in a state and a program. And nobody's talking about that. So I think there are also some very powerful political forces that are trying to do everything they can to stop people from talking about that. But as you said, I'm glad to see that the president, I think he did turn a corner.

55:17Benny Johnson:He's got a very tough road walk here. He can't be weak on it, but he can't make things worse. This is going to take the best of his ability to get through. Because I think we are in...

55:30Piers Morgan:What I imagine would be frustrating to him is that what he's achieved on the southern border, for example, has been staggeringly successful and has almost universal approval. What he's achieved in when he says, look, we want to kick all the undocumented people in the United States who then commit crimes unconnected to their status. Everyone broadly agrees with that too. The flashpoint is, and I keep talking about this because I think it's what the real flashpoint is here, is I think the majority of Americans that I know, and it's reflected in the polls, they're compassionate people, they're people of common sense, and they have looked at people, for example, you've come here into the United States, undocumented, but then built lives for themselves where they've had kids, they've got jobs, they've paid taxes, they've contributed to society, they don't commit other crimes, they're law-abiding citizens for all intents and purposes without actually being citizens.

56:32Piers Morgan:And they don't like the optics of masked ICE agents seemingly rampaging around into Home Depot and other places and grabbing people like that and trying to throw them out of the country.

56:45Benny Johnson:I would tell you that the president agrees with what you just said. That is one of the things he made very, very clear. We are going after the criminals. We're going after the people who are dangerous, who have raped our children, raped our wives, our daughters, et cetera, et cetera, murdered people. Those people are the ones they're going after the mask is is a tough one because again I don't like I don't like our police in masks either I don't like anybody in masks I had a problem with it during coven I don't like the mask idea it's very impersonal and especially when it comes to good guys and bad guys why are you wearing a mask but you don't understand that in America these people are being targeted

57:26Piers Morgan:and their families people are oh yeah I get it yeah right so I mean you the

57:31Benny Johnson:The problem is chicken and the egg. You've got to stop the violence. You have to stop people. If the left would come out, if Walls would come out and say, enough of this, stop it, stop it. Respect them. We've worked out a deal with President Trump. We're going to turn over these people, et cetera, et cetera. This would all go away. But there's not that honest negotiation.

57:56Piers Morgan:No, I agree. And actually, the most pleasing moment of a very difficult week, I think, was when Trump did pick the phone up to Waltz and they had what apparently was a very constructive conversation. That should have happened a long time before. The idea that the governor was not allowing the local cops to do their job on the streets to police crowds and was leaving it to what were, in my opinion, clearly poorly trained ICE agents in crowd control. That was a major factor in what was happening. That's not what they do.

58:32Benny Johnson:That's not what the National Guard is even supposed to do. That's a local policing issue. But, you know, we're in a situation where if the local police and the and the attorney general of the state won't do their job, won't prosecute, won't arrest, won't stand in the middle and play the referee, then what do you have? I mean, you can't let lawlessness rule. And our Constitution is very clear. If if the state government refuses to do its job, if they refuse or impede federal agents or federal agents are in danger, then the government has the right to say this is an insurrection, yada, yada, and put it down.

59:13Benny Johnson:Trump doesn't want to do that. Trump does not want to do that. That will only inflame everything. But he has the right to do it. And they're kind of backing him into this kind of South Korea corner where he's like, what do you want me to do? You want me? I'll go take over. But that's a bad idea. And that'll only make that'll only just throw gasoline on the fire. And I believe that's what the left wants. I agree. I agree. And I think you know, you guys went through it in 68 in Paris and in England. I mean, this is the same kind of coordinated Marxist effort. It is separate from people who honestly are looking at the situation and judging it as an adult and saying, this is wrong, this is right.

59:54Benny Johnson:But most of this is coordinated by Marxists.

59:59Piers Morgan:Yeah, I don't disagree. I want to talk about the Epstein scandal. It's never ending, this scandal. And it's bringing down a lot of scalps in the UK. You know, the former Prince Andrew brought down, Lord Mandelson, he's been brought down. A lot of people falling here. We're not seeing the same thing happening in the United States yet. What was your view of this, Glenn? I mean, again, what a pretty unprecedented scandal in terms of the reach of high profile, famous, rich, powerful people dragged into the net of one guy. And we still don't really know who got up to bad stuff with him and who was just part of the social world and is mentioned in these files and therefore people want to find them guilty by association.

1:00:48Benny Johnson:I found out Saturday that I'm actually in the files. Yeah, I saw that, yeah. Yeah, one of his clients said, you know, I'm having to meet with some Glenn Beck fans and you know what they're like or something like that. So it's the only good way to be in those files. The problem with this, Piers, I think this is the biggest scandal we've ever faced because it shows how deep the deep state and powerful people, they can get away with it. But I don't think we're ever going to have the answer. You know, both parties have had this file, these files. They've had them. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have had them.

1:01:29Benny Johnson:You don't think if Donald Trump was in them, you don't think the Democrats would have used that to stop him? They used everything else. They would have used that. Did somebody take that out? Did somebody, you know, take the other side out? I think everybody who was really powerful enough got all of that stuff out. I think the way Pam Bondi, our attorney, handled it was an absolute disgrace. It was not helpful in any way, shape, or form. But I don't think we're ever going to get to the answer. But I certainly would like to see more people just in shame. You know, Bill Gates. My gosh, just in shame.

1:02:03Benny Johnson:I know. Does shame even exist anymore? It does in England. I don't think it does in America.

1:02:08Piers Morgan:Yeah. That's very interesting. I agree with you. People here are being shamed into oblivion. I'm not seeing that yet in the United States. And yet a lot of people like Bill Gates. It's pretty, pretty appalling what we're reading about people like him. Let's end on a happier note. Melania, the movie. You went there with Tanya, your wife. The theater was packed. What did you make of the film? It's obviously been trashed by critics, but they're not honest brokers, these critics. They're people that hate the Trumps, particularly hate Donald Trump. So therefore, they trash him.

1:02:45Benny Johnson:I don't want to present myself as a completely honest broker either because I like the Trumps. I know them personally.

1:02:50Piers Morgan:Right. But I thought it was fascinating to have that kind of access.

1:02:59Benny Johnson:I mean, it was two or three weeks before the inauguration. I thought it was really well done and elegant. I think it made her look to be the Jackie Onassis, which I think she is, Jackie Kennedy.

1:03:11Piers Morgan:Yeah.

1:03:11Benny Johnson:I don't think we've ever had a classier, you know, she's up with Jackie Kennedy. Very, very smart. And it shows how smart she is. And a woman of her own thought. And I thought it was great. I didn't learn much new, but I've never seen access like that before. I saw things that I've never seen before. but there's nothing new but it's a wild look into this time from a completely different angle that you've never Americans have never seen

1:03:44Piers Morgan:Yeah I just think whatever you think of the Trumps it's a really interesting peek behind the curtains which shows you the dual role of people who get propelled to these gigantically big public places like Melania Trump. Imagine, one minute she's just the wife of a real estate tycoon who does a bit of TV. The next, she's the first lady of the United States, having come to the country as an immigrant. Right.

1:04:14Benny Johnson:An immigrant from behind the Iron Curtain. I mean, only in America. Amazing story. Amazing story. And then Donald Trump, his mother, went through Ellis Island. His mother was an immigrant, and she produced the President of the United States. I mean, And it's an incredible story and incredible that those two people are the first lady and the president while everybody is saying they hate immigrants. How's that possible?

1:04:40Piers Morgan:There is an irony there, isn't there, Glenn? Glenn, I've got to leave you there. Love having you on Uncensored. Thank you so much. God bless. Thank you very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

1:05:20Benny Johnson:Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.

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