In short
Piers Morgan Uncensored hosts a debate and “who said it?” quiz about whether left/right rhetoric is converging, sparked by a reported cordial Oval Office meeting between President Trump and New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani, despite both sides previously calling each other communist/fascist.
Guests (backgrounds)
- Riley Gaines: OutKick host of Games for Girls; anti-trans sports/gender politics commentator.
- Dean Obidala: SiriusXM host of The Dean Obidala Show; political commentator.
- Mike Nellis: host of Endless Urgency; former senior adviser to Kamala Harris.
- Jack Posobiec: senior editor at Human Events; claims he was in the room during the meeting.
Key claims
- Trump and Mamdani “found common ground” on affordability/economics; critics argue it undermines prior “communist/fascist” branding.
- “Culture war” issues drive attention and identity politics; some argue everyday economic concerns matter more.
Notable examples
- Quiz quotes attributed to Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Bernie Sanders, Barack Obama, and AOC.
- Discussion references Riley’s Leah Thomas/anti-trans sports stance and Mamdani’s “white-based” property tax/race-based neighborhood language.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPublic Figures and Their Statements
0:31 to 3:28
Discussion on controversial statements made by public figures and their implications.
“How do you come to a place where some of the least impressive and most useless people who have no actual skills become billionaires?”
Examining the Trump-Mamdani Meeting
3:28 to 6:10
Analysis of the unexpected camaraderie between Trump and Mamdani during their meeting.
“I don't think anyone expected these two, who had been branding each other communists and fascists, to come out like they were, you know, walk-on parts in Brokeback Mountain.”
Friendship or Strategy?
6:10 to 7:22
Exploration of the motivations behind Trump's friendship with Mamdani.
“All right, Jack Posobiec, you were in the room when these two were putting on this extraordinary show of camaraderie.”
Reactions to the Meeting
7:22 to 10:46
Discussion on the mixed reactions from the right regarding Trump's support for Mamdani.
“We don't want to start this from a confrontational, antagonistic standpoint, obviously, during the campaign.”
Work Together Despite Differences
10:46 to 14:00
Debate on the necessity of cooperation between political figures with opposing views.
“Right, but nobody on the right was excited about this before this meeting.”
Debate on Political Labels and Responsibility
14:00 to 19:20
The hosts engage in a heated discussion about political labels and the responsibilities of public figures.
“but also one that ever in Europe can afford.”
Debate on Political Labels and Responsibility
19:21 to 19:58
The hosts engage in a heated discussion about political labels and the responsibilities of public figures.
“ExpressVPN is the simple way to protect your privacy online.”
Quiz on Political Quotes
21:14 to 28:00
A lighthearted quiz where guests guess the origins of various political quotes.
“Well, look, I want to have a bit of fun with you guys, because we've got a quiz here to test my theory that actually the horseshoe theory might have validity.”
Political Common Ground Amidst Division
28:00 to 30:22
Discussing the potential for agreement across political divides in America.
“I'm not sure that it explains the White House meeting between Zoran and Trump, but I do think there are a lot of areas where we could agree.”
Populism and Economic Issues
30:22 to 34:36
Exploring the rise of populism and its effects on American politics and the economy.
“People want to disagree with each other.”
Show all 14 chapters
Culture Wars and Political Engagement
34:36 to 37:03
Examining the impact of culture wars on political engagement and voter priorities.
“That's what I'm going to predict right now.”
Riley Gaines on Women’s Rights in Sports
37:03 to 42:00
Riley Gaines discusses her experience with gender politics in sports.
“And I made this point to you a couple months ago when I was on the show.”
Debating Abortion and Common Sense
42:00 to 43:35
The discussion revolves around differing views on abortion and its societal implications.
“I think I'm just about his common sense standard default position on virtually everything.”
The Challenge of Agreement
43:35 to 44:06
Participants reflect on their inability to maintain a consensus despite initial camaraderie.
“A BIT LIKE AL PACHINO IN GODFATHER THREE.”
Transcript
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0:30Piers Morgan:I want to know who said these things. How do you come to a place where some of the least impressive and most useless people who have no actual skills become billionaires? Zoran? Tucker Carlson. Yep. October the 7th in Israel was horrific and all hostages must be returned. But so is the genocide. I assume it's a Democrat that said that. Could it be Zoran? No, it's Marjorie Taylor Greene again. Get out of here! What you're seeing here is what they call the horseshoe effect, where you have the left and the right basically converging together. We couldn't even last 45 minutes. I see them on social media.
1:04Riley, the only reason that anybody knows who you are is because of culture war and gender politics. I think there are few things more sinister than for someone to suggest that we stop talking about children who are getting healthy body parts cut off of their body. That's literally not what I said, Riley, and that's what you do. You twist other people's words so that you can make money on the internet. To me, you're embarrassing yourself. We'll let the American people decide who embarrasses themselves.
1:29Piers Morgan:One is a communist, the other a fascist, at least as what each says about the other. But last week's Oval Office bromance between President Trump and New York Mayor Zoran Mamdani showed that left and right have quite a lot in common these days. The president said it himself. Would you feel comfortable living in New York City under a Mamdani administration? Yeah, I would. I really would. Especially after the meeting. Absolutely. What makes you comfortable? We agree on a lot more than I would have thought. Well, their supporters may shudder to think about it, but Trump and Mamdani are really not so very different.
2:01Piers Morgan:Both men defied the establishment and defied the odds with a populist election campaign, tobocharged by social media, which promised to swing a wrecking ball into the failing status quo. Both men said their opponents were boring, failing and corrupt. Both men argued that the economy has left working-class Americans behind. Both men seemed exceedingly relaxed about national debt and the idea that big government intervention is necessary to get what they want. As for the name-calling, well, it's all just part of the game. Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist? I've spoken about...
2:34Piers Morgan:That's OK, you can just say yes. OK, sorry. It's easier. It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind. Well, Trump and Mandani do, of course, propose very different treatments for the problems they've diagnosed, but the big picture point remains the same. All of the experts, all of the pundits and all of the pollsters will always argue that both sides need to move to the centre. Well, voters are clearly a bit sick of it. And maybe the new centre is actually where right and left meet in the middle. Well, joining me to discuss all this is Ryder Gaines, host of Games for Girls on Outkick, Dean Obidala, the host of The Dean Obidala Show on SiriusXM, Mike Nellis, host of Endless Urgency, and former senior adviser to Kamala Harris, and Jack Posobiec, the senior editor at Human Events, who was actually in the room when that was all going down.
3:18Piers Morgan:Let me go to Riley. Riley, welcome back to Uncensored, first of all. Great to see you. It was a pretty jaw-dropping meeting, wasn't it, in the Oval Office? I don't think anyone expected these two, who had been branding each other communists and fascists, to come out like they were, you know, walk-on parts in Brokeback Mountain. What was going on?
3:42Yeah, you're right. I think this was a shock to me. But truthfully, after watching the encounter, watching the press conference, taking some time to think about this. Honestly, Piers, I think this is where Trump is best. One-on-one negotiations, he's done it his whole life. He knows exactly what he's doing. And so I'll say this, I trust President Trump. Again, he knows exactly what he's doing. He knows exactly who he's dealing with. He could deal with Mom Donnie, I believe, in his sleep. So I didn't really view this necessarily as Trump getting soft or changing. I more so view this as the Democratic Party continuing to unravel, despite Mom Donnie's big and decisive win.
4:18I think Mom Donnie is smart enough to realize that his party as a whole has abandoned common sense voters on law enforcement, on border, on crime, on immigration, on gender insanity, on economic security. So I think he used this, Mom Donnie, I think he used this as a photo op that works in his favor really to both sides. On one hand, it makes Mom Donnie appear as if he's reaching across the aisle, but I believe on the other hand, to his fringe radical base, they view this as him, like, owning President Trump, if you will. So I'm giving Mamdani, like, approximately zero credit because despite his efforts to rub elbows with the president, he is still a freaking communist.
5:00Piers Morgan:Well, Mike Nellis, here's my question, really. If Donald Trump really is a fascist, as Mamdani said before and after their meeting, why would he give him the time of day? Why would he go and be his best buddy in the Oval Office? Surely that's the last thing you do with an actual fascist. Could it be that he doesn't really think that Trump is an actual fascist? I think it's that the federal government has an incredible amount of control over the resources that heads to New York City. So, of course, he's going to go build a relationship with the guy. I think Riley's spin there is sort of interesting to me, though, because the Republicans, for the better part of the last six months, have been talking about how their entire midterm strategy for the Democrats is to call him a communist, to paint Zohran Mondani as this evil boogeyman, tie every Democrat to them.
5:45And Donald Trump blew that up in one meeting. Trump is sort of a classic bully to me, a classic Internet bully. He'll laugh at your face, he'll make fun of you on the Internet, but the minute you're in a room with them, he's going to be all lovey-dovey with you. So to me, this meeting was entirely predictable. And I do think it was smart of Mondani to go, because now the next time Donald Trump or someone in his administration is trying to fuck with the city of New York, they're going to think twice or Trump's going to step in and help them. It's the same thing that Governor Gretchen Whitmer did in Michigan, and it's been used to great effect for her.
6:10Piers Morgan:All right, Jack Posobiec, you were in the room when these two were putting on this extraordinary show of camaraderie. First of all, were you stunned by what you were watching? Well, Piers, we had actually been in some kind of communication with some of the White House staff, so we had heard going in that President Trump was planning to be cordial, so I wasn't really surprised, perhaps surprised, at how friendly they both were to one another. And, you know, I think really that President Trump perhaps is reading the room a little more in terms of the affordability crisis, the cost of living crisis, economic conditions crisis that's going on, not just in New York City, but in so many places across the country.
6:53You've got Biden inflation that's still rampant throughout the system that the administration has been working on and they're fighting. But yeah, I don't know if I was expecting it to be quite as bro-y as it was.
7:04Piers Morgan:I mean, the same question for you, Jack, is, you know, if Trump really believes this guy's a communist who's going to wreck New York, why would he say he'd be very happy to live in New York under him? Again, it doesn't really make much sense. Well, I think he's given him the opportunity to work together. And that's what we were told over and over that the message is we want to work together. We don't want to start this from a confrontational, antagonistic standpoint, obviously, during the campaign. Both sides, as President Trump is during many campaigns, quite belligerent. But at least starting from this conversation, look, he's going to be mayor for the next four years.
7:40President Trump is going to be president for the next three years. So they are going to have to work together. We also saw President Trump work together with Gavin Newsom during COVID, during some of the wildfires, with Andrew Cuomo when he was governor of New York during COVID. So it wouldn't necessarily be out of turn for him.
7:55Piers Morgan:Dean Abidala, welcome back to Uncensored. Thank you. How long is this going to last, this friendship, do you think? I mean, I'm giving it about three weeks. Look, Piers, what people are missing is, and I can say this as a Muslim, we have a special superpower. We can make people like us, Piers, and that's what Zoran used. He wasn't expecting. His cologne was a combination of, like, cumin, cardamom and ecstasy. It brings people in. We hypnotise you, we mesmerise you. Before you know it, you're giving us all the aid we need to run our city. That's what happened. All right, so that's one angle of it.
8:26Here's the other angle is Donald Trump likes to be with the winner. Donald Trump's a pool rating at the lowest in his entire second term, even the first term on the economy. Fox News poll last week, 75 percent of Americans view the economy negatively. He's at the bottom. He got crushed in the election a few weeks ago. It was embarrassing. And now here comes a big winner. Young guy, charismatic, New York City. Trump does have a place in his heart for New York City. There's no doubt about that. and he's like, this is the guy I'm going to align with here. And I don't care if I piss off my base because he doesn't care about his base anymore.
8:59He's got the wealthy oligarchs on his side. So this was a win-win for both of them. It served both their interests. Zoran gets the support of the president for what we need in New York, where I live in New York City. We don't have troops here occupying our streets. Trump gets to stand next to a winner and smile.
9:13Piers Morgan:All right, Riley, here's the sort of bizarre point of this is that almost every pro-Trump person in the media, every member of MAGA that I've seen on social media and so on, we're all spending the weeks before this, ever since Mamdani won, going absolutely nuts about this guy, that he was going to be the worst thing that's ever happened to New York, potentially to America. If a Democrat's followed his path, obviously it would be devastating for the country. He's a communist. He's a terrible socialist. All of these things. And then suddenly their guy, Donald Trump, is not just being magnanimous with him, but being openly supportive, saying, follow my conversations with him.
9:59Piers Morgan:I think it's going to be great for New York. I mean, there's got to be a lot of head-scratching going on, isn't there, on the right? Yeah, look, again, Mom Donnie, he is very charismatic. He's very charming. He promises free things. That's appealing to a lot of people. And President Trump, he has a special affinity for New York, as previously mentioned. So, again, this really wasn't too much of a shock. I believe it was maybe Winston Churchill who said something to the effect of like, a communist is like a crocodile when it opens its mouth. You can't tell whether it's trying to smile or preparing to eat you up.
10:31We don't know what was said behind those closed doors. Hopefully this is, again, it's a good sign. Two people representing two different bases, but both working for the American people, working together. I mean, I see this as a win. So despite what you see on social media, people coming after Mamdani or Trump, I see this as a win and excited to see how the city of New York, the direction it goes, hopefully with the help of President Trump.
10:58Piers Morgan:Right, but nobody on the right was excited about this before this meeting. Everyone on the right was saying this is going to be the worst thing that's ever happened to New York City. I was there when Mamdani won. I was in New York. And everybody on the right was like, this is going to be an absolute horror story. right this guy's gonna come and you know rape and pillage our people economically um and now suddenly the same people are having to kind of eat their words a bit because trump's been so ecstatically supportive of him i mean there is a it's a weird thing isn't it i i don't think there's i think time will tell right i don't think there are a ton of people yet eating their words or at least I'll certainly speak for myself watching this interaction.
11:45Again, I think it's a good sign. I think there's feelings of optimism and feelings of hopefulness, but I don't think I'm eating my words or other people like me who have said people like Mom Donnie, not even just Mom Donnie himself, but people who embrace a socialist regime. I wish we had examples of where this was not successful, where this failed, like Venezuela or Cuba or the Czech Republic or North Korea. I mean, I heard all this rhetoric and yeah, I kind of agreed.
12:21Piers Morgan:And then I'd see Donald Trump, who branded this guy, you know, awful communist, basically say, no, I think it's going to be great. And I was scratching my head. I'm just surprised that so many on the right have just sucked this up. Mike Nellis, I'm equally surprised that people on the left, seeing their guy in the Oval Office with the fascists, which, just to be clear, Mamdani has carried on calling Trump since that meeting, you know, sucking up to a fascist in the Oval Office. Again, I'm just... I find it totally perplexing. I mean, look, they're going to have to find a way to work together even though they disagree on stuff.
12:58What I think is most interesting is I follow Riley on social media, I follow Jack on social media. Jack and I have tussled on this show before. When you go back and look at their Mamdani posts, I'm sure, over the course of the last weeks and months, it's going to be, he's a radical communist jihadist. He's going to steal your women. He's going to destroy America. Everything's terrible. And that was the entire Republican game plan for 2026, was to say that was the entirety of the Democratic Party. And Trump blew it up. And to me, as we see Riley and Jack on here right now, who are being much more, let's say, demure in terms of their critique of Mamdani after Trump, it just goes to show you that they're just going to float wherever the winds are to get the most social media.
13:31That's not true. I pressed him in the Oval Office. The video is all over social media.
13:37Piers Morgan:Well, to be fair to Jack, you did. Let's play the clip you're talking about. Are you clear you're continuing this idea of race-based property taxes? No, to be very clear... That's what you said. No, the use of the term was a description of neighbourhoods, not a description of intent. So you intend to tax the whiter neighbourhoods more? No, we intend to create a fair property tax system because we want a New York City that is not only fair and equitable, but also one that ever in Europe can afford. I mean, again, Mike, you know, here's what I'm just perplexed about. If you genuinely think he's a fascist, as so many on the left do, how can you just stand there and basically endorse him in the way that Mandani was doing?
14:17I mean, look, I believe that Donald Trump is a fascist. I don't think he's a very successful fascist, but I think he is one, and I think the way that he uses power is to abuse it on his own behalf.
14:25Piers Morgan:So would you go to the Oval Office if he asked you to come? Yes, I would. I'd give him a piece of my mind. and I'd try to find a way to work together. Like, look, at the end of the day, Zoran Mandani's got millions and millions of people that he's got a responsibility to help make a city more affordable. You take an opportunity to go to the White House, meet with the President of the United States, I don't care who it is, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, it doesn't matter, you take that meeting, you try to get as much out of it as you can. If it was, you know, the equivalent of Mussolini or Hitler, you gonna do it?
14:50I mean, I'm gonna have to because I'm gonna try to deliver for my people. Really? That's the job as an executive.
14:55Piers Morgan:You would go and stand there if that was Adolf Hitler or someone with that mentality standing in the Oval Office? I mean, I'd give him a piece of my mind. You'd give him a piece of your mind. You've got a responsibility to your people. My point being, and by the way, this point applies to both sides. I believed everybody before this meeting. I thought that the right genuinely thought he was a communist jihadi. And I thought the people on the left thought that Trump was a Nazi stroke fascist. And yet here we are. I don't think he's a Nazi. Now everyone is. Now all of you. Hold on. Hold on. All of you.
15:26Piers Morgan:Hang on. All of you. And I say this very respectfully because I like all of you. but all of you are now expressing a very different sentiment to the one you would have done before this meeting. Mirs, you're missing one thing. What am I missing? You're missing something that we see on the left. We didn't see Zoran kissing up to Trump. We didn't see Zoran patting Donald Trump on the back. We didn't say, I think he's going to do a great job. I think he'll do a better job in America. I can sleep better now. We saw Trump do that. We saw Trump look at Zoran the way we want everyone we're in love with to look at us.
15:56It's like a buddy cop movie. I heard Trump wants a new rush hour. It's Trump's wrong.
16:01Piers Morgan:I didn't hear Zoran Mamdani call him a fascist in the Oval Office. Well, that's because Trump told him he could. Right, but if he genuinely believes it... I mean, afterwards he did. So why didn't he have the balls in the moment to go, actually, Mr. President, you are a fascist. He didn't. He bottled it. He bottled it. You played the clip where he said he was going to say it and Trump said, don't say it. He didn't say it. Trump just played him. Whatever you, it's fine. The reason we're not upset on the left is that we view Trump as being played. People on the right, you can go through your mental machinations, whatever you want to justify this.
16:36I thought Jack's question was perfect. It showed how the obsession with the right with race and identity, which is a losing proposition. No, it's not my obsession, Dean. It's what he said. That's what it was. That is your obsession, Jack. And I know I'm not scolding you for that. I think it's great. I think it's great to ask you. You guys are all about identity politics. Yes, he did say it. He's like a king and queen of identity politics. And I'm not saying who's the king or the queen. I'm just saying both of you are the king and queen of identity politics. He said white-based neighborhood. White-based taxation.
17:04That's my job. Jack, he didn't say that, that was in the writing. But when he spoke to you about it, he spoke on earlier in the campaign. But here's the thing, Piers, Donald Trump gets race-based politics, identity politics is no longer gonna win when the economy is challenging. That's the truth. I'm not spinning this, this is nothing else. No, listen, don't get me wrong. Listen, don't get me wrong, Dave. It doesn't work with the economy. I have to be clear. That's all people want to hear about the economy. That's all they want to hear about. Hang on.
17:30Piers Morgan:Just to be clear, my own view is I love seeing people from different sides come together, right? I just think it's good, it's healthy for democracy. I'm only holding people to account who've actually been expressing for weeks that the other one is a fascist, this one's a communist, this one's a jihadist, this one's a Nazi, and so on and so on and so on. And now suddenly, because they put on this buddy show, everyone's like, oh, maybe I was a little hasty. Let's give them time, these new friends. This is all good. Now, I like the way that the rhetoric is toned down, but it is quite funny to watch.
18:08Piers Morgan:Do you really, Peter? Wait, what if you watch the new Rush Hour starring Trump and Mondami as the two cops? I'm into that. Right. Jack, could it be? Could it be, Jack? There's another working theory. that actually what you're seeing here is what they call the horseshoe effect, where you have the left and the right basically converging together, right? Which is why Mamdani and Trump found, probably to their mutual surprise, more in common than they realized they had. Is that a possibility? I'm actually... I reject the horseshoe theory. I don't think it's a real thing. I know it's something that's been brought up a lot.
18:47There's a lot of people who, you know, kind of in the centre who try to bring that up. I don't think it's a real thing. I think you can be critical of a current situation. You can also be cognizant of a current situation like cost of living in many parts of America, which is a true problem. And we should be honest about that. But I don't think the prescriptions necessarily are the same at all. I think the way people come to politics is differently. So I just I know there could be sometimes optically where it may look like people are on similar sides on a certain issue. But I just don't think horseshoe theory in, you know, in in the end really, really carries weight.
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20:50Piers Morgan:Free ingredients, delicious flavours, Smokehouse BBQ is a personal favourite of mine. Use code PIERS for 25 % off your first order at massachips.com or vandycrisps.com. You can also click the link below or scan the QR code to claim this delicious offer. Massa and Vandy, also now available nationwide, at Sprout Supermarket. Stop by and pick up a few bags before I buy them all. Well, look, I want to have a bit of fun with you guys, because we've got a quiz here to test my theory that actually the horseshoe theory might have validity. So, I think we'll start with you, Mike, with the first one. I want to know who said these things, right?
21:33Piers Morgan:I blame the Republicans. They are slaves to all of the big industries in Washington. the military industrial complex, big pharma, health insurance industries, you name it, they are slaves to them. I'm going to guess... I think you're trying to trick me, so I'm going to guess Marjorie Taylor Greene. You're correct! Wow! But only because you smelt a rat. All right, let me ask Riley... I also read the statement. Let me ask Riley this one. Who said this? You may be happy with the state of the US economy, but many young people aren't. The main problem, the reason capitalism is increasingly discredited and socialism increasingly popular is that for too many young people, our current system isn't working.
22:14I'm going to say this is our friend Charlie Kirk.
22:17Piers Morgan:Actually, Tucker Carlson said that, sounding a bit like Bernie Sanders. All right, let me go to you, Dean. October 7th in Israel was horrific and all hostages must be returned, but so is the genocide, humanitarian crisis and starvation happening in Gaza.
22:37I'm not going to say Trump. I assume it's a Democrat that said that. Could it be Zoran?
22:42Piers Morgan:No, it's Marjorie Taylor Greene again. Get out of here. Yeah, it is. Is she going to show up on the show now? Well, I don't know. I was going to keep going. We've got a few more. It's quite fun. So, Jack, who said this? Nobody thinks legal immigration is appropriate. We need comprehensive immigration reform, but I don't think it's appropriate for people to be coming across the border illegally, so we've got to work now on immigration reform. Barack Obama. Bernie Sanders. Close. It's interesting, isn't it? Let's go to Mike again. The unfairness of a system drives people crazy. They are useless and they are rich.
23:18Piers Morgan:How do you come to a place where some of the least impressive and most useless people who have no actual skills become billionaires, leaving aside my committed socialism? Can you answer the question? My committed socialism?
23:33I'm not sure. Zoran?
23:35Piers Morgan:Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson, yep. Riley, who said this about Zoran Mamdani? He really ran a campaign where he looked directly to the people. He was focused on their issues, focused on their problems and talking to the people about his solutions. When we're not talking to the people and not working on the people's problems, we lose the people and the people will turn elsewhere.
23:59tell me i don't know have a guess
24:05Piers Morgan:let's say uh jd vance marjorie taylor green again this is a salute to marjorie taylor green that's no i love this we've got a few more here i'm enjoying this because it's sort of proving my point as we go. Dean, who said this? Young people must once again be able to afford a mortgage and a home, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security benefits, protect our workers, protect our jobs. Donald Trump? Yes, Donald Trump. You're going to ruin your own show if we all get along. Do you understand that, Piers? You're putting yourself out of business. Well, no, not really. It would ruin my show if you all got it right.
24:45Piers Morgan:You're going to rename the show Kumbaya. My point being that the more you get wrong, The more you get it wrong, the more it proves my horseshoe theory. Right? So let's go to... I think it's Jack, isn't it, next? Who said this? Freedom is not about saying nice things or agreeing with those in power. It's the right to express your point of view without government interference. We mustn't allow anyone to take that freedom away from us. Josh Shapiro. Bernie Sanders. Who said this, Riley? Young people are in hock to debt. They are completely indebted. They're student loans. They're required to get a degree to get a job that no longer exists.
25:22Piers Morgan:Unemployment is out of control. They've followed every instruction dutifully and they've been completely betrayed and shafted.
25:32Again, I'm going to say Charlie Kirk. I think until his final moments, even in talking about Mamdani, these were issues and concerns that he was raising.
25:40Piers Morgan:It's actually Tucker again, actually. All right. Mike, who said an unspoken secret in Congress is that much of the reflexive, blind, unconditional vote support for nearly any Israeli government action isn't from actual agreement. It's from fear. Reps are terrified of this, of AIPAC, so they don't vote with their conscience. They vote their fear. I'm going to guess Marjorie Taylor Greene again. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Yeah, all right. All right, three more. Let me go to you, Dean. This is a problem primarily on the right. Nobody has sympathy for young people. Conservatives have been trained to blame the borrower, not the lender.
26:15Piers Morgan:It's a feature of the mindset. pay back what you owe. It's not that simple. Well, I'm going to say Zoran, although I think you want me to say Marjorie Taylor Greene. It's actually Tucker Carlson. Not Zoran Mandani. OK, let's go to... I think it's Jack next, is it? Who is worse, the guy who borrows the money or the guy who loans the money at some ridiculous rate? There are payday loans with a 600 % annual interest rate. There is a moral obligation to say that is disgusting. Is that Tucker again? It is. And finally, I think this is for... Who's this for? I think this might be Riley. I'll leave you with the last one.
26:56Piers Morgan:We need trade policies that benefit American workers. Tariffs can be a powerful tool. They can help level the playing field for American auto workers and steel workers. They're outsourcing American jobs to factories abroad. And we're live on match day as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. What a finish. there's no doubt about it it just tastes better match days deserve pepsi
27:26let's see let's say president biden bernie sanders so here's my point you've got about
27:33Piers Morgan:two or three correct between you right and yet that's really interesting to me because it used to be that these kind of statements it would be pretty obvious who had said that left or right. And I do think there is a bit of a horseshoe thing. I mean, Mike, let me come to you about that. It is really interesting that a lot of these, if you listen to, say, Hillary Clinton talking about immigration, you know, 10 years ago and compare it to the way Trump does now, there's not much difference, right? So there's a lot of rhetoric here that is quite similar, whether you're talking about the economy or affordability or immigration or Israel or whatever, you're suddenly seeing a lot of convergence of thought and agreement between people on the right and people on the left.
28:16Piers Morgan:And that may explain, using the horseshoe theory, why actually Mamdani and Trump, when they got in a room together and began to talk about stuff, found to their probably astonishment that they had a lot more in common than they realized. I'm not sure that it explains the White House meeting between Zoran and Trump, but I do think there are a lot of areas where we could agree. And what's happening is we're being pit against each other by social media algorithms and wealthy people that just, very, very, very wealthy people that just want to suck up what limited resources the rest of us have. And I think people are pretty frustrated with it.
28:49The other thing too, is I think the way our politics and our media apparatus are set up, it's to kind of dehumanize one another. My guess would be if you locked me in a room with Jack, or you locked me in a room with Riley, and we had to solve 10 of America's biggest problems, we'd probably walk away with some real solutions. The problem is you've got five, I have 600 members of Congress who don't want to fix anything because their rich donors don't want to help them. I mean, I think that AOC quote about AIPAC is really true, is that people don't fight for Israel because they genuinely believe in the cause of the Israelites.
29:16It's because they're afraid of super PAC spending in their primary.
29:19Piers Morgan:Yeah, but I would say it's not just the fault of Congress. When I do these panels, invariably, people take quite a tribal position. And they don't like to deviate, particularly, and they certainly don't like to reach across the aisle, or in this case, across a screen and say, you know what, I totally agree with you. And when I hear it, it's so refreshing because I do think political rhetoric whipped up by social media has become overly tribal and toxic. And actually, you're right. If you were in a room together, say you went and had dinner together or whatever, any of you, right, from the left and right, I reckon you'd find a lot of things you have in common, things you might agree with YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING AND SO ON.
30:00Piers Morgan:BUT IT WOULD BE A MUCH MORE CIVILIZED ENCOUNTER. THE PROBLEM WITH ALL POLITICAL DISCOURSE IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW IS ALL OF IT IS DESIGNED TO BE CONFRONTATIONAL. PEOPLE ACCUSE ME OF DOING THAT ON THIS SHOW, BUT IN A WAY, I'M TRYING TO BE THE ANTIDOTE. I'M TRYING TO BRING PEOPLE TO A POINT WHERE THEY WILL ACTUALLY REACH POINTS OF AGREEMENT. I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY EMPOWERING AND REFRESHING IF IT HAPPENED. CAN I HAVE ONE THING TO THAT, THOUGH? SORRY? Is that I think... Is this a new show you're doing now? Well, no. I just, look, I don't... People want to disagree. People want to disagree with each other.
30:32Piers Morgan:It's fine. But I see... Being passionate in a disagreement doesn't mean I hate the person I'm disagreeing with, unless they're bigoted, right? And look, even before this, Piers, look at polling. How many Americans support taking big money out of politics? Talking 80, 85%. How many Americans support the idea of expanding Medicare? Right. Give our seniors hearing, dental vision, 85%. We have a bunch of things like that. But we have people in Congress who have to answer to their donors that prevent us from getting along. We're still going to fight on other issues, and we should. This is America. I don't want to agree with Jack on most things, frankly.
31:04But on certain things, it's called populism. And every quote you read, Pierce, was populism, economic, not mega populism, down-the-middle populism. And that's where we're going forward. And you might find some common ground on certain issues because people are struggling. It's a real issue. Even Jack admitted it. Prices going up. Trump doesn't admit it. This populism is the winner for the near term. until something else becomes... But I'd love us to get along on populist issues, to fight for the working class, the working poor. For all of us, we watch the wealthy get wealthier every single day, and we struggle to make ends meet, and I speak for everyone else who calls my radio shut.
31:38That's exactly how they feel. So if it's someone on the right or the left, giving them an answer that's going to change their lives, really, not cultural bullshit, but really, like freezing the rent or giving free childcare with the second-based expense in New York, they're going to gravitate and vote for that person. That's why Zoran won 70 % of people under 45. That's unheard of. Black, white, brown, 70 % of them want a better life in the city.
32:02Piers Morgan:But the problem is... The problem is, Jack, it becomes a jack of that. The problem is, I still don't believe that Mamdani has got a cat in hell's chance of affording, ironically, all these affordability manoeuvres, right? He says he wants to get affordability, but the cost of doing that, as has been proven time and again in places where they've tried actual socialism, is you can't afford it. We've got the same issue in the UK now. We've got a left-wing government that made all sorts of grandiose promises not to raise taxes, not to do this, to do that, to do that. And all they've done is chucked huge millions and billions at extra public spending, and now they're just going to go and tax all the wealthier people and make them pay for it.
32:44Piers Morgan:It's the old, you know, tax of envy and so on. And I don't like any of that kind of politics. But, I mean, take, for example, here, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who we've got recorded a few times, she's now said she's not going to run for president. She's third favourite with the bookmakers to potentially be the next president. She said she doesn't want to do it. I never take people at face value when they say that. But she's split from Trump over some fundamental policy issues that she disagreed with them about. Are we seeing the inevitable fracturing of the MAGA movement as we head towards Trump being inevitably a lame duck president?
33:23Well, Piers, I wouldn't say that Trump is necessarily lame duck at this point. He will be after the midterms, right?
33:27Piers Morgan:I mean, that's just the automatic thing. That'll be a different thing because what's really going on now isn't a fracturing of the party. I think what's happening is that the 2028 primary has already begun. And so it's going to be a vicious primary. Now, we know J.D. Vance is in poll position, but there's going to be a lot of people. I think you're going to see Ted Cruz run. Ron DeSantis is obviously making noise again. And Marjorie Taylor Greene currently making a play here, obviously making a play here for either that or one of the Senate seats in Georgia. And look, this is politics. I think politics is always going to move this way.
34:00I don't think that Trump is going to come in and put his thumb on the scale. We know that he likes to do, you know, the apprentice thing, the celebrity apprentice thing. So I think that's what you're seeing with a lot of this. It's a lot of the 2028 primary already sort of setting the table for what's to come.
34:16Piers Morgan:I mean, my experience when he does the Celebrity Apprentice thing is he normally chooses the standout candidate. He can, but you never know. I mean, he likes to see the competition. No, Jack, that was a joke, mate. I won Celebrity Apprentice. No, I know. Oh, right. Of course. I remembered you were on. Okay, yes. That's how I met Donald Trump. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Trump's going to endorse Zoran. That's what I'm going to predict right now. Let's not get into the Constitution. You can't run. You can't run. We're on here. I know. let's not putting the constitution aside. He likes that guy. I mean, let's be honest, he knows the winner.
34:49Piers Morgan:Trump always knows winners. I would love to know. I mean, Mike Nellis, I would love to know what, I'd love to know what went on between them in private that made them come out like that in the Oval Office. I would too. I think it would be amazing. I tweeted right before the meeting. I was like, they should have sold tickets to it. They could have paid down the national debt because people would have wanted to see it. I want to add one. I was outside the room. I'll just add, you know, I hear it was very much the same. I heard it was very cordial. Yeah, that seems consistent. I want to add something on the culture war stuff, though, because I do think American politics gets completely bogged down in the culture war stuff.
35:20And maybe we've got an opportunity to reset with this Zoran and Trump meeting here. But, like, you know, like, look, I'm here because I'm one of the founders of White Dudes for Harris. It's how I got a little bit of popularity on the Internet with my people. Jack has done his stuff. Riley's done a lot of stuff on anti-trans stuff. We disagree on those things. But it's pretty clear right now. Like, Piers, you and I have thought about wokeism and stuff like that before. Like, that draws attention. It draws clicks. you've built a huge audience for it, but we're very far away from getting on the same page talking about how to help people buy a house and put food on the table and retire with dignity and send their kids to college.
35:49I'd like to spend less time on the culture war bullshit and more time on...
35:53Piers Morgan:Yeah, but it's interesting how you always phrase the culture war stuff as bullshit. And I say... Well, I'm sure. And I say that issues, and I'll come to Riley about this in a moment, but I say that issues like trans athletes in women's sport, they're not culture war issues. They are a direct assault on women's rights. AND IT'S ASTONISHING TO ME, MIKE, THAT YOU STILL WANT TO DISMISS THAT AS SOMETHING MOST AMERICANS DON'T CARE ABOUT. ANYONE WHO'S GOT A DAUGHTER... SAYING THAT YOU WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME ON THAT THAN YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THINGS THAT ACTUALLY... I DON'T WANT TO SPEND MORE OR LESS TIME ON IT, BUT THE MORE...
36:22Piers Morgan:I HAVE TO BE HONEST, THE MORE YOU GUYS ON THE WOKE LEFT, AND I'M AFRAID I DO CATEGORIZE YOU AS ONE OF THE LEADING LIGHTS... OH, COME ON. BUT THE MORE THAT GUYS LIKE YOU SAY NOBODY CARES ABOUT THAT ISSUE, THE MORE NUTS I THINK YOU 'VE GOT AND THE LESS IN TOUCH WITH REALITY you are. People do care. That's one of the reasons Trump won. It's one of the reasons you blew up at the election. I think, Pierce, I think a lot of people on the fringes of the internet care, but I think everyday Americans care a lot more about that. Have you asked any parent with a daughter who competes in sport in America?
36:54Piers Morgan:Yes. And they didn't care? Most people don't care about the issue. It's not a salient issue that drives their voting choices. It drives a lot of social media engagement. And I made this point to you a couple months ago when I was on the show. You said you were white dudes for Kamala. How did that go? Yeah. How did that go? I mean, we raised a lot of money. It's not bad. Yeah, but they didn't actually... We didn't win. She did. Hey, listen, you might not like it. She did marginally better with white men in the last election. You were about the only white dude who thought Kamala should be president in the end, it turned out.
37:21Well, no, she won 41 % of white guys, but all right.
37:24Piers Morgan:Right, but does it suggest to you that maybe your political antennae for these things... No, I mean, I would... No, I would do away with that kind of identity politics. I don't like it. I'm not going to disavow the work that we do. We literally had a group called White Dudes for Kamala. Yeah, and in the context of the week that happened... What could be a bigger culture war move than that? Black men for Harris and all the others, it made sense, but, like, I am generally someone who doesn't think that that level of identity politics works... You literally took identity politics and you amplified it a million percent by calling your organisation White Dudes for Kamala.
37:56Piers Morgan:Yeah, well, we did it in the context... You're one of the guys that did it. ...of what other Democratic Party groups were doing, Piers. I mean, whatever. Like, again, you want to debate this, but we're not debating the economy right now. You want an end to identity... Hang on, just to be clear, you want an end to identity politics and culture war clickbait stuff, and you called your group White Dudes for Kamala. Right, which, again, in the context of what was going on that week where there were other affinity group calls with black women and black men and Latino men, it made sense to call it that at the time, but I would encourage the Democratic Party to move on from this.
38:25It's the context of what's been going on for years. Right. Riley, the only reason that anybody knows who you are is because of culture war and gender politics.
38:31Piers Morgan:Actually, no, the only reason people know who Riley is SHE VERY COURAGEOUSLY STOOD UP TO PROTECT WOMEN'S RIGHTS WHEN A SIX-FOOT-THREE-INCH BIOLOGICAL MALE SWIMMER CALLED LEAH THOMAS ROBBED HER OF POTENTIAL GLORY. AND THAT'S THE REALITY. PEOPLE CAN PRETEND OTHERWISE. THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY ONLY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THAT STUFF AND DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY. THEY TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY. YOU'RE DESPERATE TO MOVE OFF THAT TOPIC BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW DAMAGING IT IS WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY PRETENDING NOBODY CARES. Riley, let me bring you in here, because you've been... I mean, you were back in the news in the last few days for a new relentless attack on you.
39:10Piers Morgan:So for those who missed it, tell us what happened there.
39:17Honestly, Piers, I didn't even read it, because it's so baseless and filled with, like, total falsehoods. There's a guy, I guess by the name of Pablo Torres. I've never... I'd never truthfully heard of him, not meant to be a knock at him. I just had no idea who this man was. said he did a six-month-long investigation, deep dive into my life. And what did he find? He found that I have a job. I get paid for certain things that I do, just as everyone on this panel does, just as you do, Pierce. He found that my coach, my collegiate coach of my team, is accused of sexual misconduct towards swimmers, which I very quickly, when I learned about this, took to my Twitter to release a four paragraph, uh, like condemnation of this saying that any person who engages in sexual misconduct is bad, especially a person in a position of authority, such as a coach.
40:10Uh, so again, a total nothing sandwich, uh, is what this man found, but nonetheless, I just want to make a very quick point. You say that people don't care about this cultural stuff by also telling me that the only people are the only way that people know who I am is because of this issue. Don't you realize the irony in that? I did not ask to be where I am. Quite frankly, this isn't where I want to be. Even still, I was in dental school prior to all of this. I think I would have lived a very fine life, happily married, pursuing dentistry. Okay. I did not ask to be where I am, but people cared.
40:42People cared enough even still to continue to, I mean, listen to what I have to say. Lord knows why, right? So I think it's disingenuous to say that in one hand, no one would know who I am without this issue. But on the other hand, people don't really care about this stuff. I have millions of followers. I think 1.6 or 1.7 on X, 1.5 on TikTok over 1.2 on Instagram. It's not because I'm posting constantly. Gosh, I live a very normal life. I never asked to be where I am. So let's make that very clear. And secondly, I think there are few things more sinister than for someone to suggest that we stop talking about children who are getting healthy body parts cut off of their body.
41:24I mean, few things more sinister than that. And when we're talking about populist ideas and these 80-20 issues, no, it's literally what you just said. And we're talking about these 80-20 issues. That's literally not what I said, Riley, and that's what you do. You twist other people's words so that you can make money on the internet. You're going to get a real job. It is literally what you said. It's not what I said. It's not literally or figuratively what I said. This is crazy to me. Maybe you're having some audio issues over there. you guys like resounding i i i didn't hear what that last part was say it again well i i mean you're just i mean to me you're embarrassing yourself like what you do is you twist other people's words you're claiming i said something that i didn't and what you'll do is you'll crop this later for social media and it'll look good for your audience we'll let the american people decide who embarrasses themselves i guess i mean i guess The point that I was making, Riley.
42:15I think I'm just about his common sense standard default position on virtually everything. On virtually everything. Like the position that I take on, I do believe, maybe this makes me a radical, that abortion is up there with like child sacrifice, especially in the way that the Democratic Party celebrates it has a mobile abortion clinic outside of their DNC convention. You think abortion is like child sacrifice and you think that's a common sense issue in the United States? That's crazy. Well, allow me to jump in there. position even amongst the Conservative Party. I would say that I had the very standard default position of everyone, I mean, two decades ago even.
42:51So, we'll let the American people decide who embarrasses themselves.
42:54Piers Morgan:Can I add one final thought? Let me end by saying, Mike, let me end by saying, on the issue of trans women in sport and trans women in women's spaces, I'm 100 % with Riley. On the issue of whether women who have an abortion are engaged I WAS ABLE TO DISAGREE IN CHILD SACRIFICE. I COULDN'T BE FURTHER AGAINST HE'S POLICE. I RESPECT HER RIGHT TO HER POLICE. IN THE WAY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CELEBRATES IT. NOBODY CELEBRATES ABORTION IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. THEY WERE BOATING OF THE NUMBERS THEY GOT. THE POINT IS I AGREE AND I THINK IT'S A VERY BORCH DEBATE. I AGREE AND DISAGREE WITH ALL OF YOU ABOUT VARIOUS THINGS.
43:37WE WERE ALL GETTING ALONG. WE WERE ALL GETTING ALONG. NOW LOOK AT IT. NOW LOOK AT IT.
43:46Piers Morgan:A BIT LIKE AL PACHINO IN GODFATHER THREE. YOU SUCKED ME BACK IN. THERE WAS ME TRYING TO FIND A NICE, HAPPY, WE'RE ALL FRIENDS TOGETHER, MAMDANI TRUMP KIND OF VIBE. LOOK AT US. LOOK AT US. WE COULDN'T EVEN LAST 45 MINUTES. The battle goes on to find points of agreement. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Piers. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain.
44:29Piers Morgan:And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.
From the publisher
They’ve called each other a communist and a fascist but last week President Trump and Zohran Mandani appeared to put on a united front when the new New York Mayor visited the Oval Office.
Their supporters may shudder to think about it, but the pair are really not so different. Both defied the establishment and defied the odds with a populist election campaign, turbocharged by social media, which promised to swing a wrecking ball into the failing status quo.
Trump and Mamdani do, of course, propose very different treatments for the problems they have diagnosed - but the big picture point remains the same.
Experts, pundits and pollsters will always argue that both sides need to move to the centre - but voters are sick of it.
Joining Piers Morgan to discuss is host of Gaines for Girls on Outkick! Riley Gaines, host of the Dean Obeidallah show on SiriusXM. Dean Obeidallah, senior editor at Human Events. Jack Posobiec and host of Endless Urgency and former senior advisor to Kamala Harris, Mike Nellis.
Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:
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