‘Why NOW?’ Ian Maxwell Speaks As Sister Ghislaine Set To Be Questioned By DOJ Over Epstein Files

30:16Piers Morgan:866-721-3300. That's 866-721-3300. Or visit AmericanFinancing.net slash peers. No, I believe myself. I've known her for 60 years. You know, I'm not going to suddenly say she started pulling the wool. I don't think so. I don't believe so. Not for a second. Not for a second. And interestingly, President Trump was asked the only time, I believe, in public, at the tail end of his presidency, so say, you know, November, December 2021,

31:02Piers Morgan:I don't think anyone else showed the slightest piece of humanity. Not anybody at that time. And yet he did. He didn't need to. He's the president of the United States. The most powerful man in the world. He could have just sloughed it off. He didn't. He made a positive statement. I'm very grateful to that. I know no one else. I know no one else. I know no one else. I know Do you think that she will testify to Congress if she's given immunity? Well, I've just told you that there are multiple... I understand that. Wait a minute. Is that what she would require? If you want me to answer the question, you want me to explain it to you?

31:45Piers Morgan:Immunity. You've got to be careful about things like immunity. in a situation where you've got live legal proceedings. We can't find that if Gillen says, OK, I'm going to start testifying, that she has somehow attacked ex post facto for procedural nonsense and she's accused of lying to Congress. You cannot take this lightly. We just heard about the possible subpoenaing or the definitive subpoenaing. It doesn't mean that when she... A subpoena is a command to come to Congress and to testify. But it could be possible for Ghislaine not to testify. She may be advised in the midst of her legal proceedings that she should take the fifth, which would be a pity because she's never taken the fifth.

32:36Piers Morgan:Not once, not in any of the civil proceedings. Not once. No, but she didn't testify in her criminal case. That's the right of every defendant. Sure, but she didn't testify, my point. She did not testify. Because she believed... She's never actually testified under oath about any of this, right? She believed that the government had not made its case. It's not for Ghislaine to make the government's case. I understand, but she could have testified. She could have testified. Of course she could have testified. Let me ask you, Ian, do you believe Jeffrey Epstein killed himself? I have to say that that was my original view.

33:13Piers Morgan:I think it's entirely plausible that that could have happened. However, I think the jury must be out on the manner of his death. I think the investigation was shoddy. I think it was cursory. I think the guards involved were let off pretty lightly. I think the footage we've seen of the film is not terribly conclusive. There's a flex from a CPAP machine which helps you breathe better. Why couldn't that have been used as a ligature? We don't know. And the pathologist that was brought in by the Epstein family did not consider that the injuries to Epstein's neck were conclusive of suicide and he thought it was more likely that it was homicide.

34:02Piers Morgan:And so that's my take on it. Remember, prisons are damn dangerous places. There are murderers on the wing where he was. He is a convicted pedophile. So, you know, nonsense, as we call them in Britain, gets short shrift in prison. You know it and I know it. Do you worry that if your sister agrees to testify that her life will be in danger? I think Ghislaine's life is in danger today. She's in a prison. It's a violent place. And we know that there's heavy overcrowding in Tallahassee that now higher category prisoners are being admitted. So, yes, I think it's, you know, the prisoners are washed with drugs.

34:44Piers Morgan:It's extremely violent. You know, it also is so ridiculous. She has no paper. She can't even instruct her lawyers. I mean, what kind of a situation is this? Where is the justice in that system? Tell me briefly about the Prince Andrew photograph. The infamous picture with his arm around Virginia Dufresne. Yeah. With your sister in the background. Some people have tried to cast aspersion over the veracity of that, but we know that Andrew paid a reported$11 million to avoid having this argument in public court. So what is your view of it? Well, you've made several points. The first thing I want to deal with is the photograph.

35:27Piers Morgan:This photograph was allegedly taken on the 10th of March 2001. I think I'm right about that. the weekend of 10-11 March. Now, Ghislaine had flown from the United States to England for one purpose that weekend. It was to attend my mother's 80th birthday celebration, which took place 35 miles away from, 50 miles away from London at my then sister-in-law's house, the house of my brother, Kevin. We have footage of Gillen on that weekend. There. We have people who saw her there. Now, you cannot be in two places at the same time. That's my take on the picture. You draw the conclusion. Well, 30 miles is not that far to drive.

36:22Piers Morgan:You draw the... Well, in the midst of a family gathering... So you're saying the picture was fake? I'm saying you can't be in two places at once. So is the picture fake, do you think? What do you think? From that... Well, if the picture was fake... Listen, Ghislaine has herself considered that she has no memory of that picture ever been taken. She has no memory of the event taking place, and for what it's worth, nor did Prince Andrew, because he's on... So why did he give Virginia Dufresne$11 million to avoid a court case he vowed to have? The real reason that he folded his tent was not that he didn't have a decent case or a decent crack at proving that Virginia Giuffre was a serial liar, which we know is the case because Professor Dershowitz was accused also of having slept with her.

37:15Piers Morgan:But unlike Andrew, he stuck to his guns and she had to pull. Now, you have to remember... Hang on, hang on, hang on. You have to remember that... Hang on one second. But Ian, on the question of whether Virginia Giuffre lied about Ghislaine, As you know, Virginia Jufre sued Ghislaine for calling her a liar, and in the end, Ghislaine paid a reported millions of dollars as a settlement. Why would she have done that if Virginia Jufre was lying? Let's just get back to finish your question on Andrew, because you've asked that question, I haven't answered it. You have to remember the context in which he filled it.

37:53Piers Morgan:It was his mother's 70th Jubilee year. She's at the end of her life. She's at the end of her reign. She wants to finish, go out on the bank. And this could not happen. I think he folded his tent either at her direct request or at the request of other members of the family that said, we can't have this. It's too bad. You just have to fold it, take the pain and just move on. So that's as far as Andrew is concerned. In the case of Guillen, it's a really different position because the transcripts of the civil case between Jufri and Guillen found their way utterly inappropriately, and as we now know, illegally, into her criminal trial.

38:49but the transcripts as affecting Giuffre.

38:53Piers Morgan:So what came into the trial was all of what Gillian had to say and what Gillian did, but not what Giuffre has admitted and what Giuffre did. So part of what we want to get released, and which we hope that President Trump will authorise, the DOJ will proceed and Pam Bondi will get on with this, is to have all of those transcripts in the public domain. But why did Gillian pay her millions of dollars? Listen, it reached a point where the matter was sealed. There would be no more finish to the whole thing. It was finished. She had enough. They came to an arrangement. We don't know what that arrangement was, actually.

39:33Piers Morgan:I don't know to this day. It finished. Just finally, there's a lot of speculation about whether Epstein was some kind of Israeli agent working for Mossad or some other entity. And there's also been a further suggestion that your father, Robert Maxwell, was also an Israeli agent, maybe also working for Mossad. What can you say about that? Well, just dealing with my father briefly, it's well known that he was a major supporter of the State of Israel. From its independence war of 1948, unknown to me, but described in a book that came out a few years ago, he was instrumental in ensuring that Israel had spitfires and replacement parts required to defend itself and to ensure that it won that particular war.

40:28Piers Morgan:Later on, when he was a much more well-known man, he discovered the treachery of Vanunu. This was a man who had exposed Israel's nuclear secrets and ended up being quite helpful to Israel to get him and get him into jail. So that's as far as my father's concerned. I would dispute the idea that he was a member of Mossad or that he was in some kind of an agent of theirs. I think he was definitely a strong supporter of the state of Israel. Certainly he was on the Arab boycott and was proud of it. Epstein, I have not a clue. We know that one of the former Israeli prime ministers, Barak, I think, just last week said that it was not the case.

41:15Piers Morgan:Quite the contrary, why would he take such a man on to be an agent? So that's what Israel has to say about it. As for Gilin, I have not the slightest doubt that my father would never have involved her in any such matters. Not with the Mossad, not with the British Secret Service, nothing. So I dispute all of that. Your father fell off a boat, his boat, as everybody knows. How do you believe he died? I have always accepted that it was an accident, that he fell from that boat. We know from some of the autopsy pictures released that there are really terrible tears in the muscles on his back, which would be indicating that he's tried to hang on either to the stairs or to the stern of the boat.

42:06Piers Morgan:So he was not a well man at the time of his death. He was very, very overweight. And so I think that's good for me. And I just don't buy the murder, although Ghislaine does and has always thought that he was murder. Have you had any contact with Prince Andrew? Have I? Yeah, recently. No, not recently. I think I met him at a time when Ghislaine was with him, or, you know, saw quite a bit of him, and that would have been at least 15, 18, 20 years ago. So, no. Ian Maxwell, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Joining me now is the host of The Benny Show, Benny Johnson, the PPD podcast Angry Patriot, Vinnie Oshana, Mick Mulvaney, the former Chief of Staff to President Trump.

42:54Piers Morgan:Before I go to the panel, I want to speak briefly to Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, who's been waiting patiently. Thank you all for your time. It was a fascinating interview there with Ghislaine Maxwell's brother. So I just wanted to complete that first. Let me just ask you, Lauren Boe, but first, your reaction to the fact that the House in Congress now wants to depose, it seems, Ghislaine Maxwell? Yes. Well, my colleague, Tim Burchett from Tennessee, has language to bring her in before the Oversight Committee and have Ghislaine Maxwell testify. You just spoke in your previous segment about immunity.

43:30There have been rumors on the Hill that she wants a pardon before she would do that. That's not confirmed to me, but certainly rumors that have been spoken about. And so I don't know if she would come before Congress with an immunity deal, with a pardon deal. I don't think that this is somebody who should be pardoned. Or maybe when we hear what we have to say, maybe she should. But I don't see anything wrong with having the star witness actually say what's happening. Now, President Trump, he has done so many things that unfortunately are being overshadowed by this. We are all about truth and transparency.

44:14And I do trust the president's timing that he will get this out. We've had votes in the Rules Committee on such language. There's a discharge petition that I'm a co-sponsor of. Congressman Thomas Massey has drafted this language with a Democrat to get Democrat support. Of course, they're all over this right now. It's the first hint of corruption that they've ever wanted to expose. I mean, I've been in Congress trying to expose Hunter Biden and the Biden crime family all of this time, even Joe Biden's cognitive decline. And there was like nothing to see here, folks. They looked like the penguins in Madagascar.

44:50You didn't see anything. And now all of a sudden they're about truth and transparency. But I do agree with Congressman Tim Burchett and even many parts of the discharge petition that I'm a co-sponsor of in getting truth out to the American people, mainly because I want President Trump to continue on his amazing successes and what he is doing for the country and not be distracted by this mess. I've had communications with the White House. I do trust that there is a timing for this. And right now, we honestly should be talking about the treasonous activity that we have seen with Barack Obama as he was going out of his administration and what our secretary Gabbert has uncovered.

45:37That should be the main topic today. But instead, we are focused on Epstein. And I just want to say one more thing, Pierce. For years, we wanted to talk about Epstein. and no one would. Everyone called us crazy. They called us conspiracy theorists. And now all of a sudden, this is the hottest issue. And the Democrats who are saying that they have seen things that they, that they, that Republicans didn't try hard enough to get information out, where were they the past two years, the past four years, the past six years, where were they in actually getting information out to the public then? So it's fine to have the conversation, it's even better to get information out to the American people.

46:21And your interview there was very, very fascinating. He certainly has more information on this topic than I ever would. So it was great to be here in the waiting room watching that interaction.

46:33Piers Morgan:Well, I appreciate your patience. I think in relation to the Epstein scandal and the Trump administration, it's simply that I had Alina Haber on this show several months ago in which she was absolutely ramping up to fever pitch what was likely to be in the Epstein files, and then suddenly, bang, everything gets shut down in a very mysterious and sudden way on a Friday night, and it's exactly the kind of behaviour that, honestly, if this had been the Biden administration had done that, I think exactly the same furore would have been fired up, but by you guys. So I do understand why the whole thing blew up the way it did.

47:10Piers Morgan:But listen, Lauren Burman, I appreciate you joining me. Thank you for your patience. I'm going to go to the rest of the panel. Benny Johnson, it's very interesting. I mean, I'd never met Ian Maxwell before. Obviously, he is her brother. You know, many people may watch it and think, well, he would say all that, wouldn't he? And there may well be merit to some of the procedural arguments he's making about the way this all got played out. But it does remain the case that it's completely baffling to me how the only person who's ever been made legally accountable for the actions of Jeffrey Epstein, one of the most predatory paedophiles, certainly high-profile paedophiles in modern American history, is a woman who's languishing in jail, and no other men, apparently, were ever involved in any criminal activity with this guy.

47:59Piers Morgan:What is your view about this? First off, kudos to you, Piers. That interview was spectacular. What the hell is going on here, Piers? So he's saying that the Prince Andrew photo's fake? You're joking. He's saying that there's a doctored photo. This is the opinion of the Maxwell family, that she never hung out with Prince Andrew. And then two questions later, he says, when they were all hanging out together with Prince Andrew, exactly what the hell just happened? That's crazy talk, man. And then his admissions about his father and his workings with foreign intel agencies. These are bombshell. These are some bombshell admissions and some things that I really hope get asked in the federal testimony that is going to be elicited from Jelaine Maxwell that I have sources inside of the DOJ and the FBI that says that meeting is on the books.

48:54It's not something that they're dangling in front of us, peers. It's not some shiny object. It's happening. It's already on the schedule. It's going to happen. And so what's going to become of that? I'd really love to see the answers to that question. Ghislaine Maxwell is on the record saying she doesn't believe that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Well, why exactly? What was the operation? Did you literally sex traffic thousands of women to no one? Who was your father? Did you meet Prince Andrew? Is this a doctored photo, as you just elicited, out of her brother? These are wild bombshells. Bang on, Piers.

49:29That interview was something else.

49:30Piers Morgan:Well, also, I just think in the end, you know, Andrew paid Virginia Dufresne$11 million, reportedly, to not go to court and clear his name as he vowed to. And secondly, Ghislaine Maxwell paid apparently several million dollars to Virginia Dufresne to avoid going to court and defending herself against her claims that she... that Virginia Dufresne was a liar. So, you know, look, I agree that in America, A lot of people settle without any admission of fault or blame or guilt. However, however, when a load of people caught up in one of the biggest scandals of modern times are paying millions of dollars to people while simultaneously claiming they weren't victims and nothing happened and there's nothing to see here, Gov, I'm just not buying it.

50:24Piers Morgan:Well, here's, I think, the most important part. And if you speak with any federal prosecutor, as we've done multiple times on my show, you'll find something very strange here. And it really aligns perfectly and locks in with the Diddy trial. And there are major connections between the two. But here's the most major glaring connection that any federal prosecutor will scream from high heavens until his voice cracks over, which is you can't charge a RICO case without any co-conspirators. The way a RICO case and a Kingpin case works, and Epstein's case was a Kingpin case, was you start bringing in the lower-level people and charging them.

51:00Same thing with Diddy, with the RICO case. You bring in the people who brought in the prostitutes or found the young women, who set up the freak-offs, who set up Epstein's Island. You prosecute the pilots. You prosecute the underlings. And then you build yourself up to a RICO case. In both cases, it was a wrap-up operation. The prosecution, Piers, was the cover-up. This was an opportunity for the federal government to seal something, not to expose to something. And that's what has bothered so many people. They are intricately connected. Okay.

51:36Piers Morgan:Vinny, do you accept that this has all been handled incredibly badly by the Trump administration, because I think that's inarguable now, right? I mean, they walked everybody up the hill, and then right at the point that certainly I think a lot of MAGA voters were expecting to have full disclosure on all the Epstein files, Elon Musk suddenly goes public and says, bombshell. Donald Trump's, you know, the biggest bombshell is that he's in the Epstein files. Two, three weeks later, everything is shut down. You know, you don't have to be a mad conspiracy theorist to say, well, what's going on here?

52:10Piers Morgan:I did, and I've known Donald Trump 20 years and like him very much, and I totally accept that he might be completely blameless when it comes to anything involving Epstein of a nefarious nature. But the sequence of events here is not good. Absolutely not, Piers, and it's good to see you again. And you. But yeah, Piers, and here's the thing, Piers, it's all the people, it's the team around him. Okay, he didn't, Trump did make a promise, Piers, when he was asked, you know, will you release JFK? Yes. Martin Luther King? Yes. 9-11? Yes. Jeffrey Epstein? Yeah. But with that one, I kind of, you know, we kind of got to be careful, okay?

52:49So it wasn't like he ran on it. It wasn't a campaign promise. But when your team, the Pan Bondys, the Cash Patels, and Dan Bongino, who I admire and I love a lot, are out there on the front lines making all these promises, Piers, you personally, if you had your team of producers and all these people around you, They're speaking on your behalf and they're making all these promises. Wouldn't you be like, hey, guys, shut the hell. Like, what the hell are we doing? Well, Vinny, I think it's worse than that because we all know how Donald Trump operates.

53:16Piers Morgan:They wouldn't have all been doing that off their own bat, right? They'd have all been doing it because they had been encouraged to do it. They were speaking on behalf of his administration. So something went down and I don't know what it was. And maybe it was the Elon Musk thing. I don't know what it was. I mean, we've now got the Wall Street Journal, obviously, publishing what they claimed was a hand-drawn bawdy letter bearing Donald Trump's name to Jeffrey Epstein at Ghislaine Maxwell's request for his 50th birthday album in 2003. A pair of small arcs donate women's breasts. A future president's signature is a squiggly Donald below her waist mimicking pubic hair.

53:57Piers Morgan:Now, Trump has responded by saying it absolutely wasn't anything that he did. He's now suing the Wall Street Journal. He's suing Rupert Murdoch for billions of dollars. And we'll have to see how that all plays out. But it certainly, it was no doubt that they were very good friends for a period of time. It's also no doubt that, to his credit, Trump dropped him when he became knowledge he was a convicted pedophile, which a lot of other people didn't, including, I don't believe, Ghislaine Maxwell. So I do think there's life before the conviction and life after the conviction for public figures. If you carried on like Prince Andrew, hanging around a guy who's been convicted of soliciting an underage girl for sex, then I think, I'm afraid, you are then guilty by association, right?

54:41Piers Morgan:You can try and pretend you're not, but you are. Pierce, I have a quick question for you. Yeah. You've known Donald Trump for 20 years, admittedly, yes? Okay. You've hung out with him in private. You've hung out with him in public. Yes. Okay. Have you ever known him to be a limp-wristed thespian, like a vaudevillian poet that would write enigmatic, mysterious poems to Jeffrey Epstein and then wear some type of French hat and draw beautiful outlines of women scantily clad? Does this sound like Donald Trump to you? Well, I could... All I can say... Well, I can say two things about that. I'll say three things about that.

55:17Piers Morgan:One, he's never done that to me, OK, in either written or verbal form. Secondly, evidence has come out that he's been quite a doodler in his time. So I don't think he's never non-doodled. And thirdly, as you probably know, Ben, I mean, I've got probably 150 handwritten scrawls from Trump over things he's read about me, emails I've sent him. That's his way he corresponds. He doesn't use email himself. He'll send you back a printout of your email and he'll scrawl with his Sharpie, whatever he wants to scrawl. So he's a scrawler and apparently a doodler. But I have never known him right in the way that you're talking about.

55:55Piers Morgan:So it's going to be a really interesting case here. Listen, the Wall Street Journal wouldn't have published that if they weren't convinced it was genuine. But Trump has been emphatic in his denial. Shouldn't he be calling for them? Well, no, listen, I don't know. Apparently they don't even have the documents. Shouldn't he be calling for them to release every letter? Wouldn't that be fair? When was Bill Clinton writing Jeffrey Epstein at that time? Benny, I don't know the answer to the questions you're asking. and it'll be interesting if this actually goes to any actual trial about it. And Pierce, if you don't mind, Pierce, and Benny, the biggest problem is that Truth Social post where Trump goes, hey, listen, if you're still talking about it, why are you talking about it?

56:34Then I don't need your support. And it's like, what are you talking about? People like me who've been there since 2016 in Los Angeles, I had to move, I was doing stand-up comedy and acting. You know how much crap I had to get, go through, punched in the head because I had a red hat, wasn't even a Trump hat. All the jobs that I missed, all my career, suffered from it. Pat, we're ride or die. And I think that's where people were pissed off is don't just discard us, OK? And just tell us the absolute truth. You know, we just want the truth. Tell us the truth. Tell us what the hell is going on. You know what I mean?

57:06Vinny, I hear you. Vinny, I hear you.

57:09Piers Morgan:I hear you because I do think a lot of MAGA voters feel exactly the same way. I think they were deliberately led up a pathway here. on the Epstein files, that A, it was a really big deal, and that B, there was a lot that the public weren't being told that was available to the authorities, and that the moment the Trump gang got back into power, that this would all be revealed. And then after Donald Trump won, the team carried on revving everybody up. Let me come to you, Mick Mulvaney, if I may. We're going to fix Vinnie's earpiece, I think. Mick Mulvaney, as we're talking, the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, has just sent the House into recess early, shutting down until September to block a vote calling for the release of the Epstein files.

57:57Piers Morgan:He says it's because the Democrats are playing political games. All other votes have been cancelled in order to prevent the vote on Epstein. So the idea of this isn't having real-world significant consequences is obviously for the birds. When the House is shutting down and other votes are being cancelled because they can't take a risk of a vote on Epstein, then it's a big deal. And I think it's a big deal because of all the activity on the Trump side before and after the election about these files. What's your view? I think that's fair. I've never seen this happen before. I've been in Washington for 15 years.

58:35I was in Congress for six. I was in the White House for four. I don't remember ever seeing Congress just shutting down this early July and leaving until September. Keep in mind, and I know that's not what this segment is about, but there's a lot of other things that Congress needs to be doing. The federal government runs out of money the end of September, so they're staring at a federal shutdown if they don't pull something off when they get back. This is a big, big deal, and I think it comes back to the point you guys have raised. They don't know how to handle it. Everybody's confused because Trump did make a big deal about this for a long time.

59:06I thought rightly so. And then just to sort of turn on a dime and say there's nothing to see here as a bunch of people scratching their heads. One of the most interesting things I've learned in this interview is a bunch of fascinating stuff. But you had Lauren Boebert on there. I don't think you'll find anybody more pro-Trump than Lauren Boebert in the United States House representative. She has signed a discharge petition. That means very little to folks out in the real world. That's the most treasonous thing you can do against your leadership in the United States House. So if there's enough Republicans willing to go against the Speaker of the House and say, you know what, we don't care.

59:39We want this stuff to come out. That's also just sort of thumbing their nose at the president. Donald Trump a couple of weeks ago got asked, what does MAGA really mean? And he said, and he's got the right to say this. MAGA means whatever I say it means. This is putting this to the test. I do think they've stepped here. I think they've already sort of tacitly admitted that by saying they're going to now try to release the grand jury testimony, see if that satisfies everybody. It won't. But they do have a problem here. And for the sake of... Look, to be perfectly clear, and I don't know if this has been...

1:00:08I think if anybody said this explicitly, I apologise for the repetition, I don't expect there's anything criminal about Donald Trump in these files. Is his name going to be in there? Sure, there's a bunch of names in there, but there's nothing incriminating here. Why do I believe that? Because if there were, the Democrats who have controlled this file for the last four years would have either leaked it out or put it out professionally. That's exactly...

1:00:29Piers Morgan:You know what? That's exactly what I think. Why wouldn't they? They're chucking everything else at him. They were trying to get him jailed left, right, and center. Wouldn't it be worse than the actual one? All right. Don't all talk about it, guys. Benny. Benny. Yeah. Piers, unless they're on the list, like, think about it. You want to talk about Democrats? Like, of course they wouldn't want this out. Like, has anybody asked Bill Clinton? Why did Jeffrey Epstein visit the White House? Yeah, but you see, Benny, that's also a good point, but that also raises the question that, given they hadn't released anything, then that's why everybody wanted the Republicans to.

1:01:05Piers Morgan:And then they didn't. Benny, my thing with Trump is you can normally tell when he's worried about something by the sheer volume of things he does to try and distract everybody's attention. And several days ago, he posted more than two dozen times on his social media platform, Truth Social, in just a couple of hours, phony mugshots of Obama showing him apparently being arrested in the Oval Office, posting about the NFL's Washington commanders demanding they change their name back to the Redskins, posting a video of a bikini-clad woman picking up and tossing a snake, a man summatulcing down a stairway, a red Lamborghini careering beneath a truck, a man jumping a fence and coming face-to-face with a speeding train, a woman breakdancing, a billiards tree, a man hacking away at a rock formation, a dirt biker doing stunts, a jet ski, a man ascending an obstacle course with a ladder, a man jump roping, a man pulling a block from a still standing massive Jenga tower, a man tossing rubbish into a dumpster from his balcony, a man doing a flip, somebody carrying a heavy object on their shoulders, a man juggling a dropped package of paper towels, and someone doing a skateboard trick.

1:02:15Piers Morgan:I mean, there's a lot of distraction there, Benny. That sounds like a great social media feed. It was actually very entertaining. I was like, I'm going to follow. Very entertaining, but normally something that he reserves for when he really is quite worried about something. well yes that's right it's the same account that's also posted kill all terrorists you dumb bastards and posted constantly about rosie o'donnell and somebody who also said he has a bigger button than kim jong-un i think nick you might have been at the white house actually when that when that post was i have a big red button and it actually works once again this is president trump and the actions today i don't know if i know you weren't taking it live because we were doing the interview but the actions that president trump said today in the white house moments ago when he was asked about this, he fielded a number of questions on Epstein.

1:03:00He said, let Pam Bondi release everything. Let the FBI release everything. Let them interview Jelaine Maxwell. I'm confounded as to why Jelaine Maxwell has never once gotten an opportunity to explain herself. Not in her trial. She never spoke. Not to the press. The one time that she did an interview from prison, she said Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself. And I think they got to him. Well, who's they exactly? That's what shrouds the mystery here. And the move by the DOJ, I think we need to take a moment, step back and say, wait a second, this is the first time that the DOJ has ever reached out to Ghislaine Maxwell in the history of us trying to understand what the Epstein op actually is.

1:03:42This goes back 20 years. If you really want to get down to the true cover-up, and this is what makes my blood boil, that people inside of the current Trump administration are walking around with a dark cloud over them for a cover-up that happened 20 years ago when President Trump was a TV host. This was happening in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 with Robert Mueller at the FBI, with Alberto Gonzalez as our attorney general and George W. Bush as our president. This is when Epstein actually properly caught his sweetheart deal. So sweet it'd give you diabetes type two fears. Yeah, no, no. He was able to walk in and out of prison.

1:04:15He was dead to rights. Jeffrey Epstein should not be on the tip of anyone's tongue today, he should be rotting in a prison cell for life. Now, something dark happened then, 20 years ago nearly, and it had nothing to do with President Trump. No one on President Trump's team was in power. And I know clips from my show, Kash Patel have gone viral, clips from your show, Alina Haba has gone viral, but none of these people were in power. None of them should have to answer for the cover-up that happened 20 years ago. And that should truly be the nexus of our questions. What happened then When Jeffrey Epstein was caught underage trafficking over 50 women in 2025, what happened was he started giving up sources to the FBI.

1:04:57Robert Mueller gave him immunity in 2005. This is a correction. 2005, Robert Mueller was the head of the FBI. You know who was also at the FBI as a deputy? James Comey at that time, peers. And so then through the course of the prosecution in Florida, the federal charges are dropped. Alex Acosta gets told he belongs to Intel and to not look into it. Jeffrey Epstein gets the sweetest of sweetheart deals, and Jelaine Maxwell is arguing that I have immunity because the federal government told me I have immunity forever, which is something, of course, the federal government never does. So that's insane.

1:05:30But Benny, let me ask you this. You should be looking at those questions.

1:05:33Piers Morgan:Listen, you make a lot of very good points. I totally agree with you. But on this point about House Speaker Mike Johnson shutting the House down to avoid a vote on Epstein, How does that do anything but just ramp everything up tenfold? Totally agree with you. You know, we went thermonuclear viral, made international news last week by asking Mike Johnson live on our stream inside of the United States Capitol about this issue. And he said he's totally in favor of full disclosure. But what he said today was that he wants. And I agree. I contend that there are countervailing opinions here. But Mike Johnson told me for in a two minute, what I thought very thorough answer, that he wants full disclosure here and that he'd be OK with Julian Maxwell testifying before Congress.

1:06:20Now, what he said today was that he wants to give the White House time to maneuver this or to work on this. I'm not sure his exact language. So maybe Mick, who's been a member of Congress, you know, can can can commentate on what that actually means. But that's what he told us last week.

1:06:38Piers Morgan:Well, I'll come to Mick in a moment. Vinny, what do you feel about that? I just think that's such a bad move. To shut the House down and to block other votes happening simply so you can stop a vote on the Epstein scandal just seems to me a ridiculously inflammatory act, which is only going to pour fuel onto all the conspiracy flames. I agree 100%. It's like, Piers, how many more games do we have to play? And at the end of the day, the root of all this, and I know Benny can attest, Benny has a family, you guys have kids. We're talking about children, okay, the most overlooked, uncared about freaking group of freaking people on the planet.

1:07:18We had 300 ,000 during Obama missing at the border. Trump, God bless him, they found with Thomas Homan, 10 ,000. But at the crux of this whole thing, and Benny made a great point, 40, 50 women came out. We were, you know, taken advantage of. We were sexually assaulted by this guy. And what, he's free to go, and it's the they. Who's Alex Acosta saying they said he worked for intelligence? Who are they? Who are these people? And, Piers, there's a lot of debate where people are like, why would you want to do this? Maybe society's built on all this blackmail. If he works for Mossad and they have all this dirt, then the whole system's going to come down.

1:07:51There's a Latin term, and it says, let justice be done, though the heavens fall. I don't give a damn, Piers, what happens to the system. We're talking about children that were sexually, that were raped, that were freaking potentially murdered, Piers. Because if you think about it, these children, these underage 13, I know Epstein loved girls with braces. Those are 10, 11-year-old girls. What do you think happens with them when they sleep with one of these higher-up people, like a really famous person? You think they just let them go? No, they're discarded, Piers. And that's the main part of it.

1:08:22And Trump needs to wrangle this freaking team. You know what, Vinny?

1:08:25Piers Morgan:We know what happens to some of them. because we know what happened to Virginia Dufresne. She may not have been an impeccable witness. She obviously got things wrong with Alan Dershowitz. But the truth is, she was paid millions by Prince Andrew and by Ghislaine Maxwell not to go into a courtroom. And in my experience, when people pay millions of dollars to people, it's not because they've never met them or don't think there's anything to answer. So she recently... Here's my point. She recently took her own life, right? So, you know, some of these victims are actually taking their lies because of the appalling trauma that they went through.

1:09:03Piers Morgan:And so there are real-time consequences that are now reverberating for many years after all this stuff. He was one of the worst pedophiles in America. Let's be clear. And Ghislaine Maxwell was at his side for a lot of that time, and I just don't buy the protestations of innocence. Mick Mulvaney... Me? Vinny, sorry. Go on, make your final point. Yeah, Pierce, me neither. And what was Prince Andrew? Pays$11 million. And what did the queen do? What was his punishment? Jail? No. He was stripped of royal speaking duties. So if you're a pedophile and you're out there, your goal should be in a good family or be as rich and famous as possible because then you could get away with it.

1:09:45All right, Pierce? Why did Chase? Chase Bank paid almost$400 million. For what? Deutsche Bank paid$71 million to the victims. Where are all these people? If Ghislaine is in jail, Piers, where are the victims? You can't be in charge of a kingpin drug operation and you get arrested and there's no customers. What the hell are we talking about? I totally agree. And Trump's team, Piers, is handling it horribly.

1:10:07Piers Morgan:Vinny, I completely agree. Mick Mulvaney, just finally, how damaging could all this be? Things seem to be moving at a fast lick here. And I do think this action by the Speaker is just going to absolutely ignite this. Because let's be honest, again, If this was the Biden administration and a Democrat speaker of the House doing this to shut down a scandal because it may or may not, you know, name Biden in it, all hell would be breaking loose from the other side. So I can only imagine how this is going to play out with the Democrats. You must be thinking Christmas has come early, right when they've been at their weakest point.

1:10:43Piers Morgan:But what do you think of the political damage that Trump potentially faces here? Because I listen to someone like Vinny, who's always been unbelievably supportive of Donald Trump. is MAGA personified in so many ways. And I can feel the sense of slight betrayal with Vinnie and slight, like, I've been let down here, and I don't blame him. I would do too. I mean, keep in mind, Donald Trump's not running again, but the other Republicans are. I think what you're seeing today with the suspension of Congress is a tacit admission that they just don't know how to handle this. Lost in a lot of the discussion as the technicalities of the discharge petition would have been ripe tomorrow.

1:11:23So it would have been a privileged motion and it could have passed as early tomorrow. And I think the House leadership just didn't know how to deal with that. So they tried to sort of take the next six weeks and figure out how to explain it, figure they have a better chance of winning in the press than they do on Capitol Hill. But they've got a tiger by the tail. They really do. This is one of the things that I think folks are really upset about is that Donald Trump has made a name for himself, keeping his campaign promises. He's done it on immigration. He's done it on taxes. This is the difference, right?

1:11:52He promised to do this. Now, I know Benny said he didn't exactly promise as aggressively. I don't remember that. I just remember him talking about the Epstein files during the campaign, and folks really are scratching their head. I think at the end of the day, six months from now, when we look back at this, if it's done in six months, it will be, OK, did Donald Trump create the MAGA movement or did the MAGA movement create Donald Trump? That's a fascinating test. Yeah. Did Trump really dictate what MAGA is or are they going to dictate it to him over the course of these Epstein files? That's going to be fascinating.

1:12:21Piers Morgan:That's such a great question. That's such a great way to end. Guys, thank you again for your patience. But I think it was worth it to have that Ian Maxwell interview go a bit longer than we planned because it was so interesting. But I really appreciate your patience in waiting, and I really appreciate the debate we've had since then. Thank you very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain.

1:12:58Piers Morgan:And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.