“You Just Interviewed a TERRORIST!” Israel’s Occupation of West Bank | With Daniella Weiss

23:00Right, but just to be clear, you don't believe they're Palestinians. The Jewish success.

23:04Piers Morgan:You will not refer to them as Palestinians, right? I think that Palestinians were invented by Adrian and that the Arabs that come to Israel today want to get for themselves the success of the Jewish state that was created here after many years of dispersion. OK, and Mrs Weiss, how do you feel about the fact that over 20 ,000 Palestinian children have now been killed since October 7th in Gaza? I think that the Palestinians, as you said, you see, I said Palestinians, the Gazans and all Arabs around should stop attacking Israel. I just asked you how you thought about 20 ,000 children being killed by the IDF.

23:57Piers Morgan:So how do you feel about that? I think that the parents should be very careful before they teach the children to hate Jews and to kill Jews. That wasn't my question. I won the errors. That wasn't my question. Sorry to be persistent, but my question... That was your question. My question was, how do you feel... My answer. My question was, how do you feel... How do you personally feel about over 20 ,000 Palestinian children now being killed since October 7th in Gaza. How do you feel about that? I think... I think that Arabs, Gazans or Jordanians or Syrians, whoever, should be very, very careful with the way they educate their children.

24:45That wasn't my question.

24:46Piers Morgan:Right now, many of them... Can you answer my question? That was my answer? So you don't care? You have no thoughts about these children at all? You choose your questions and I answer them the way I believe is right. But just to be clear, you have nothing to say about 20 ,000 children being killed. Nothing at all. I have a lot to say about everything that happened as a result of the massacre of the 7th of October. Now, I understand you care about Israeli children who died. Right, as do I. But I'm able to care about both sides of children who've died. Why don't you care seemingly about the Palestinian children who've died?

25:33Piers Morgan:Why can't you express any sympathy or sorrow or empathy with the children who've died in Gaza? Are you able to do that? I warn all Arabs from all sides, from all borders, warn them, stop educating children to hate them. So just to be clear, I've now offered you three times... Stop. ..three times... I made myself very clear. Oh, you've made yourself very clear. You asked me five times. I'm going to give you one last... You asked me seven times. OK, I'm going to give you one last chance to offer some empathy or sympathy or sorrow about the deaths of 20 ,000 children in Gaza. Are you capable of doing that?

26:19I can tell you that had you, Kurd, and I don't believe you that you care a tiny bit about one killed person if you do not use the means that you have as a media person to stop educating children to kill Jews. OK, you gave me seven. And you know what? You couldn't give a damn, could you? And I still think that you are to blame more than me.

26:49Piers Morgan:You don't care. and all you want is all the Palestinians gone. You can barely even bring yourself to say their name. All you want is to take over the West Bank and Gaza. You don't care how many die in the process. You want them all gone. You don't care, do you? That's the bottom line.

27:09As you said, the audience will judge.

27:11Piers Morgan:Yeah, they will. Daniela Weiss, thank you very much for coming on the censored. I appreciate it. Well, joining me on the panel is author and activist Rabbi Shmuley, the founder and CEO of The Young Turks, Czech Yuga, and the Sunday Times columnist and author Matthew Saeed. Matthew, you were sitting here with me watching that interview. Your thoughts? Well, I thought it was a very illuminating interview and the kind of smiling maternal face of religious fundamentalism in Israel. You asked many times what gave her the right to ship out Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank. She gave a whole range of answers, but the key one was early in the interview when she said she had a divine right.

27:53Piers Morgan:She believes that that area is promised to the Jews by God. And because of that, and the fact that she believes she has the absolute truth, she feels that anything is justified in meeting that aspiration. I've written a lot about this conflict, and I've focused, I think rightly in many ways, on the fundamentalism of Hamas. They also think they've got absolute truth. They think they are justified in killing infidels and killing Jews. But we have to recognise that Israel, yes, it's a liberal democracy. I support it instinctively. It's in a tough neighbourhood. But there are, within Israel, fundamentalists.

28:31And what worries me the most, Piers, is that within the Israeli cabinet,

28:36Piers Morgan:Smotrich, Ben-Gavir, these are fundamentalists, nationalists. They have the ear of Netanyahu. And evermore, I get the sense that they are nudging the administration towards more carnage, more bloodshed. It's obliterating the image of Israel in the wider world, it seems to me, with no strategic objective in sight. And it was so interesting to listen to her and to see her implacability. Yeah, I mean, Cenk, I found the constant smirking, smirking, the total refusal to offer any personal sorrow or empathy or sympathy with these kids who've been killed, you know, not even to try and phrase it as, you know, unfortunately this is collateral damage in war, nothing, no attempt to offer anything at all, just an utterly intractable hardline view, all this land belongs to Israel and we're going to take it and we don't care.

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30:10Piers Morgan:They monitor and keep on removing your data if it pops up again. If you care about privacy and you want fewer spam calls, fewer junk emails and a reduced risk of identity theft, this is a smart move. We've teamed up to give you a 60 % discount on an annual plan at incogni.com slash peers. Use code PEERS when you check out. That's incogni, I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash PEERS, P-I-E-R-S. Use code PEERS when you check out. Yeah, look, you just interviewed a terrorist, and she's one of the most vicious terrorists of my lifetime. These settlers are lunatic religious fundamentalists that believe in murdering Palestinians for God.

30:58It's an absurd interpretation of any religious document. The overwhelming majority of Jews, by the way, do not agree with them. They don't think that you have to murder Palestinians for God. And so when you asked her that last question, it was actually very interesting what her answer was. You said, do you mind 20 ,000 children being killed? And she said, as long as they're teaching their children to hate Jews, she seemed to be justifying that we have to kill their children. So think about the absurd logic of that. Since they teach them to hate us, we murdered their children. Gee, I wonder why they hate you.

31:38Like the fact that she can't even see that shows you how painfully stupid this terrorist is. So I'm done. Like you guys are way too polite to Israel. Israel is a terrorist state. I'm not interested in it. I'm not interested in supporting it. I'm not interested in having them steal more Arab land. And I said to you peers a long time ago that this was never about self-defense. This was about taking Gaza. Well, I was right. I've been proven right by Netanyahu and their terrorist government. I called them terrorists and I said that they would kill more civilians than Hamas. Are you kidding me? They've now, get a load of this fact.

32:14Hamas killed 815 civilians on October 7th. Terrible. We've all condemned it a thousand times. Now Israel has killed 870 Palestinians under the age of one. They have killed more Palestinian babies than Hamas killed civilians on October 7th. And every time it's a justification, no, we talked to God. God told us to steal Arab land. God told us to murder Arab children. And what kind of sick state is this? When I saw her smiling, like you said, and smirking. Now, when I see a lot of these Israeli leaders, I feel like I'm looking at Germans telling us, no, it's OK. We can do this to the Jews. There's going to be no consequences.

32:55And they're smung this partly, Piers, has to do with the fact that they think we own America. There's nothing you can do. We control the largest military in the history of the world. We can get them to do whatever we want because AIPAC has bought the entire U.S. government. And she's not wrong. She's not wrong. I mean, today Trump is talking about, yeah, you're not going to get the Epstein files. You're not going to get anything. We're occupied. We're all Palestinians now. Rabbi Shmuley, I mean, when you listen to that interview with Daniela Weiss, what did you feel about him? Pierce, thank you for having me on.

33:34And having had a surprisingly civil debate at Oxford University with my brother, Cenk, I'm actually going to excuse his hyperbole of calling Jews Nazis and stick to the facts because you were right, Pierce, in your discussion with Daniela, Stop smearing Jews. No, no, no, Cenk, Cenk, Cenk, Cenk, Cenk, Cenk, please, Cenk, please don't. Okay. You're already interrupting me. Just be civil, please. We had a civil debate at Oxford. Let's try to continue. We shook hands afterward. Hundreds of thousands of people said how much they enjoyed watching us shake hands. Let's be human a little bit. I'm going to do what you said, Pierce, and stick to the facts.

34:08Number one, Chang just said that Israel killed so many more civilians than were killed on October 7th. 45 ,000 Britons died in the Battle of Britain when the Luftwaffe and Hermann Göring, you know, bombed London, Northampton to smithereens. But Churchill killed 700 ,000 German children. He killed 3 million German civilians. That was terrible. But here's my question to you, Pierce. Outside of Parliament is a giant statue of Churchill as the greatest statesman in the history of Britain. Was Churchill a war criminal, yes or no?

34:40Piers Morgan:No, Churchill wasn't a war criminal. In fact, Matthew, I saw you shaking your head. OK, OK, he wasn't. OK, you said facts. You said facts. You said facts. Hang on, if you're going to make statements like Churchill... Wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, no, no. Your numbers aren't correct about the number of civilians who died. Never mind anything else. Yes, they are. There were three million German civilians killed by Britain and by the United States. There were 70 ,000 Japanese killed on a single day in Hiroshima and then Nagasaki. Half of them were children, 35 ,000. Was Harry Truman a war criminal?

35:09Was Roosevelt a war criminal? If you are prepared to say, Pierce, based on facts and based on what Chang just said, that the proportion of civilians to combatant deaths determines whether you're a war criminal. And by the way, Churchill killed five civilians for every one German combatant. The United States and Fallujah killed four civilians in Fallujah and Iraq for every one terrorist Iraqi combatant. So was George W. Bush a war criminal? Was Tony Blair a criminal? If you're prepared to at least be consistent and say that, yes, the statue of Churchill killed three million. Was Churchill... OK, do you think that Winston Churchill was a war criminal?

35:45It's a yes or no question. The same way you put it, Jenny, yes or no. Churchill, well, let me let... Hang on. So Churchill can kill three million Germans, but that's OK?

35:53Piers Morgan:You've asked a question. Matthew? I think it's a completely coherent and fair question. It's about means and ends. Is the means justified to achieve a given end? For what it's worth, I think that that consequentialist approach is legitimate. I think that Truman was justified in the atomic bombs. I say that reluctantly, but I think there would have been many more deaths had the Second World War not been brought to an end in that way. I know some people will disagree with that position. However, you're one of the most fair persons that I've ever spoken to on this show. All I'm saying is, let's be clear.

36:31Pierce, God weeps for every Palestinian child with 20 ,000 children. I don't know if it's 20 ,000, but even if it is, weeps for everyone. One was too many. Every Arab child is the equal of a Jewish child. But whose responsibility is it? Who builds? I live in a community here in New York, New Jersey, there is no army base near me. Why are the Hamas headquarters in nurseries? Why does Hamas use these children to die so that you will then point the finger? Now, even Hitler did not do that. The German military headquarters were not built in kindergartens. And let me say one final thing, Pierce, if I may.

37:11Pierce, you know what struck me about your interview with Daniela Weiss? You did not once ask her, what do the people of Gaza want. I don't care what Pierce Morgan wants. I don't care what Daniela Weiss wants. I don't care what Cenk Weig wants. I don't care what Robert Shukri wants. The people of Gaza have not had a, have not, don't speak for them in the same way I won't. They have not had a vote since 2005 when Hamas took the leaders of the, of the PLO, the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, and threw their opponents off the roofs and killed them. Then Hamas abolished all elections. Now, I want the people of Gaza to vote.

37:47Do you want to remain in that tiny hovel when you don't have a backyard, where any money that's given to Hamas, if it's rebuilt, will be, again, it'll go to tunnels? Remember that Hamas got triple the martial aid per capita for Palestinians, and they didn't build one bomb shelter, they didn't build one school, they didn't build one university, they just built tunnels and rockets. Ask the people of Gaza. So, Pierce, let me ask you, why didn't you ask... Can I just say, may I say to the rabbi... Pierce, why can't the people of Gaza vote? Let's go to a vote and let them decide where they want to live.

38:17Piers Morgan:But the rabbi did say, I think legitimately, that he had been interrupted and he didn't like it. I was halfway through the point that I was making, if I may say so, when you jumped in. I said that I thought Truman was justified. I apologise. I apologise. In ending the Pacific War. I think Churchill was justified in trying to end the war in Europe. What I don't understand, and I think a lot of people who are instinctively pro-Israel do not understand, are where are the sunlit uplands on the other side of the evisceration of Gaza? I've been told by senior Israeli officials, confidentially, that young Gazans, Palestinians, and people across the Middle East are being radicalised, that these dead Hamas fighters are being replaced at a rate of 5 to 1.

38:58Piers Morgan:This isn't going to affect Israel for the next five months or five years, but for the next 50 years. And how on earth is flattening Gaza going to help the protection of Israel when their funders are in Tehran? I agree. The image. And let me just make one final point. In the medium term, I say to the rabbi, and I say this with great sincerity, the image of Israel, I don't want to superficialise it, but the brand of Israel, that liberal democracy in a tough neighbourhood, which sits unconsciously behind Western support and has done since the Second World War, has been obliterated, shattered into a million pieces.

39:34Piers Morgan:the next generation of American leaders are going to grow up where the most salient image in their minds is not going to be the Holocaust, as it is for our generation. It's going to be emaciated Gazan children dying in their thousands, being starved via a blockade. I say to you, I understand why Israelis and Jews rallied around Netanyahu after October 7th. Who wouldn't after an atrocity of that kind? But I believe you've been goaded into an overreaction that will reverberate through history. of great strategic disadvantage to a country I want to do well. I see you... All right, and before I let Rabbi Schmuller...

40:11Piers Morgan:I see you as a... Before you respond, Rabbi Schmuller, I just wanted to pick you up on the statistics that you regaled at the start of that, which I think you said that the British killed three million German civilians, including 300 ,000 children. Is that what you said? A five-to-one combatant to civilian... No, no, just to be clear, you said three million, of which 300 ,000 were children. That's what you said, right? Right. Right. The British decimated Cologne, they decimated Berlin, they decimated Hamburg, they decimated Dresden. In Dresden they killed 30 ,000 on one night, etc. Let me finish my point.

40:47Piers Morgan:You were completely wrong. You were wildly exaggerating the number of civilians killed by the British bombing campaigns, the Allied bombing campaigns. It's estimated between 350 ,000 and 500 ,000 German civilians were killed in total by Allied bombing in World War II. And I would also add this... 500 ,000. OK, OK. So I said 700 ,000... Let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. So it was a sixth of what you said, in fact. But the wider point is we brought in the Geneva Convention at the end of World War II specifically to address the issues of mass civilian casualties in World War II. The UK signed up to that.

41:30Piers Morgan:Most countries of the world signed up to Geneva. Israel is a signatory to the Geneva Convention, and yet it breaches regularly the Geneva Convention, including, many believe, what they're now doing as a government in Gaza.

41:48I don't know how you could possibly say... By the way, I don't have the advantage of having researchers behind me or having a laptop, so can you ask your researchers, how many German children did Churchill kill? That's what I want to know exactly. I've given you your chance to spew statistics.

42:03Piers Morgan:You were completely wrong. How many children? How many children? You were completely wrong. How many German children who were totally innocent? No, no, no, one second. You said that Churchill killed 700 ,000. And now you said that Israel killed 40 ,000 or 50 ,000. Doesn't that make Churchill a much bigger war criminal than Netanyahu? Yes or no, Pierce? No, he's not a war criminal. Churchill's not a war criminal. Why? Why? He killed 700 ,000 civilians. Why aren't you answering my point? You won't answer my point. If Netanyahu is a war criminal for killing 45 ,000 Palestinians, why is Churchill, whose statue sits outside parliament, not a criminal for killing eight times that amount of people?

42:37Go ahead, please.

42:38Piers Morgan:Chang. And by the way, and by the way, let me just tell you, Pierce, you can't say the technology didn't exist because the Americans used the Norton bomb site and only did precision daytime bombing. Mrs. Said will know that. It was Churchill who said, I will not I will not risk a single RAF pilot. I don't care how many Germans die. I will only do indiscriminate, broad, nighttime bombing. Churchill was out to decimate cities to bring the will of the German people. So why is he not a worker? You won't answer me, Piers. You won't answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, well, I'm trying to answer them all, but all you'll do is propagandize for a bunch of terrorists.

43:16So, first of all, Piers is absolutely right. We passed those Geneva Convention laws so that we could prevent crimes against humanity, not just what the Germans did to the Jews, the Poles, the Roma, etc., but also what the allies did in indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilian populations. So we tried to learn from the Holocaust. We tried to learn from World War II. And we all said never again. These laws should not be broken because at least the terrible situations. Israel then said, no, we're above the law. We get to break any law we like. And now and in the case of the Germans, they were killing six million Jews.

43:55They killed 13 million overall. We were trying to stop a Holocaust. In this case, Israel is the one doing the genocide and saying, well, I mean, why are you trying to stop us from killing innocent Palestinians and taking their land? Because in that analogy, you're the Germans. So the Palestinians. I'm the German. Those innocent children didn't do anything, dude. Did you just call me a Nazi? No, no, no, no. If you're supporting Israel. Yeah. I'm a Nazi? So, look, they did a Holocaust, which is - And you called other people fundamentalists? No, if you support the current terrorist state of Israel.

44:29You just called me a Nazi? Hey, rabbi, can I - This is a sad day. This is a sad day for you, Cenk. Cenk, this is a sad day for you. No, it's not. Just for your credibility, take it back. I'm begging you. Not for me. Can I finish my sentence? For your credibility, just take it back. No, I'm not going to take it back. This is a sad day for you. I'm not going to take it. This is a sad day for you. To compare me to the SS or the Nazi, this is a sad day for you. Your credibility will never recover.

44:55Piers Morgan:I want to invite the viewer. I'll never recover. So, Pierce, may I answer? Now that I've been called a Nazi, can I respond, Pierce? May I respond? No, no, no, no. Because I haven't finished the goddamn sentence. You think you own everything. You don't own everything, Rabbi Schmule. You don't own the American government. You don't own the American people. By the way, when is America going to get this$300 billion back? We gave it to a bunch of criminals to murder children. Okay, you murder children with our money. Every day you take money out of my taxes. I go to work every day, and Israel takes money out of it to murder Palestinian children.

45:34You've murdered 20 ,000 children already. You're the aggressors. You've already killed—Israel has already killed more babies than Hamas has killed civilians overall. Israel has killed a stadium full of women and children. And you are surprised that we compare you to the Germans. Omar Bartok, an Israeli-American Holocaust expert, just wrote an article in the New York Times saying that now the Israelis are doing the type of genocide that makes saying never again absurd, absurd. Why are they doing the thing that was done to them? The world had tremendous sympathy for all Jews, and I do, all decent human beings do.

46:14But what Israel is doing is lighting that sympathy on fire and saying, we get to murder, we get to kill, and you can't call us any names. We get to call all Muslims who fight back against us terrorists. We get to attack all of our neighbors. They attack Syria again today. We get to break all the laws. We get to commit war crimes. And I'm telling you right now, just like the Germans, you do not have the right to commit war crimes, to commit a genocide, to kill all those children, and then hide, hide and use as a shield. Oh, everybody's an anti-Semite, an anti-Semite. You're canceled. You don't get to say it.

46:50You've ruined your credibility. No, Israel has ruined its credibility. Israel is now one of the most monstrous states I have ever seen in my lifetime. They commit endless terrorism. They robbed the American people of our money to rob Palestinians of their land. That is actually a stone cold fact. And I was right. Israel is now occupying 75 % of Gaza. It was always to steal their land. And by the way, it is a desecration of Jewish history and Jews overall to compare with this gross government.

47:25Piers Morgan:All right, Shane, I want to bring in Matthew to respond to that. I just can't help thinking, listening to both of you, how different the region in the world would have been if after October the 7th, as the whole of the world reeled against the heinousness of that crime, the sympathy of the global south was with Israel. Polling was very strong for understandable reasons. And I don't want to reduce this to opinion polls. That was a moral atrocity. If Israel had acted proportionately, it's a difficult word in a context like this, but hadn't visited the carnage, had retained the support of the wider world, had gone for a rapprochement, an accord with Saudi Arabia.

48:07Piers Morgan:It already had the Abraham Accords. Most moderate Sunni opinion was in favor of more harmony between the Arab world and Israel. Most of these Arab governments are relatively moderate. Just think of that, how Iran would have been isolated, the collateral that Israel could have brought to bringing peace to the region. And what's happened instead, this overreaction, the inflamed conversation that we're listening today, ever more entrenched positions. And the thing that I think historians will be most fascinated in is how, as I understand it, good reporting from the New York Times just recently that an accord with Saudi Arabia was scuppered from within the Israeli cabinet by Smotrich and the extremists who have every incentive to keep this war going because of their really quite horrific objectives.

48:57Piers Morgan:and Netanyahu's personal political interest of obfuscating a trial for corruption. That is what I think is a great tragedy that is unfolding before our eyes and listening to the entrenched positions of you two. Piers, I don't see an easy and obvious solution. No, well, I certainly concur with the difficulty of the solution. No, no, no, no, wait, I now disagree with Matthew. Don't equate us. I have to be able to speak. Don't equate me with a terrorist. Piers, I have to be able to speak. Piers, Piers. Right, Rabbi Schmooly, your response. I've called a Nazi on the show. Okay, thank you very much.

49:28Matthew, you're a very fair person, but with all due respect, you're just not realistic. You are a noble idealist. The two most important words that were ever uttered in the Second World War were surprised upon Winston Churchill and Casablanca by Franklin Roosevelt, who didn't even tell him who was his ally. And Churchill had fought the Nazis alone. Those two words were unconditional surrender. Churchill said, if you insist on unconditional surrender against the Nazis, they're going to fight to the last man. And Churchill was actually secretly negotiating with Heinrich Himmler through Count Bernadotte in Switzerland without the Americans even knowing.

50:00The Americans insisted on unconditional surrender. And why? They understood when you have a terror regime like the Nazis who do engage in genocide, unless you finish them off completely and defeat the idea of militarism, that Hamas can achieve its objectives through military objectives and not diplomatic objectives, then you will never have peace. Hamas has launched six wars against Israel since Israel voluntarily withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Israel uprooted its own citizens. It was almost a civil war because it used the idea to uproot its citizens. I want to talk fact here. Not what you think, Matthew, not what Cheng thinks.

50:36And Pierce, not what you think. Just fact. That's a fact. 2000. So Cheng says Israel wanted it back. They used their soldiers to uproot their citizens and destroy their houses and my wife's first cousins were one of those houses 2005. My children planted the last trees in Gush Katif and they were cut down by Palestinians right afterward. One second let's stick to facts number two. So you wanted to steal their land from a long time ago. No no no no one second I did not interrupt I did not interrupt you Pierce when you say breaking Geneva Convention that's not fact at all. Israel withdrew from Gaza.

51:07There are 1.9 million Arab Israeli citizens living under the protection of the IDF who don't even have to serve. Israel does practice apartheid, but reverse apartheid. Protection of the IDF. And not Arabs to the IDF. My sons are fighting right now in Gaza and Lebanon, protecting 2 million Arab Israeli citizens. And let's remember, when Iran fired their missiles on Israel, one missile took out an entire Arab family near Nazareth, killed seven Arabs. My sons are risking their lives for 1.9 million Arab Israeli citizens, which gives the lie factually to the utter stupidity and ignorance of what Cenk is saying about a genocide.

51:45Genocide was a term coined by a Jewish lawyer, survivor of the Holocaust named Raphael Lemkin in 1947. It was adopted by the United Nations in 1948, the UN Genocide. What is genocide? Geno is an ethnicity, a nationality. Side is mass murder. It's where you kill a nationality. If Israel wanted a genocide, the first people it would kill is the 1.9 million Arab citizens who vote, who have 10 members of the Knesset, whose members get up and curse out Israel every day and can't be arrested. They have diplomatic immunity. Israel is the most just, most democratic, and freest nation in the entire Middle East, which is why those Arabs in Israel did not rise up in revolt after October 7th.

52:24Matthew, let me tell you one final thing. Can I reply? Matthew, wait, let me just finish. You're a very reasonable man. I wish you were right that after watching women have their breasts cut off and being played baseball with it by the terrorists when those women were raped and shot in the genitals when shani luke uh was was raped and then put on the back of that truck and her father murdered 20 000 children i wish i wish i wish i wish that israel could have thought of a proportional response but but matthew let me put this to you please don't you think the war would end tomorrow but you had to murder children instead you were forced into surrendered and released the hostages israel would leave gaza tomorrow my children are in gaza i want them out i don't want gaza What about the people of Gaza to have a vote?

53:07I don't want what Cenk says. I don't want what Pierce said. I don't want what Daniella Weiss said. Give the people of Gaza a vote. Where do you want to live? Where do you... Do you want to be displaced to a better country? Do you want to... You had a long... But Pierce, why won't you let the people of Gaza vote?

53:20Piers Morgan:Let Matthew respond. You asked him a question. Let him respond. At the beginning of that contribution, you made a substantive and, I think, reasonable argument. You drew an analogy between the destruction of Hamas and the destruction of the Nazis. I think this is a flawed analogy. Nazism was a nationalist movement within Germany. It was not intended to be an international movement. Germans' allies in the Second World War, Italy and Japan, it wasn't really an axis. They hated each other. They didn't coordinate effectively. By defeating the Nazis in Germany, they defeated Nazism. Religious fundamentalism crosses national borders.

53:59Piers Morgan:It's an ideology. You can't... Please understand. that you cannot bomb it into submission. I mentioned earlier that they're replacing dead Hamas fighters at a rate of 5 to 1. This is going to come back to haunt you for years. The way to do it was to isolate the funders in Iran by having a proportionate response, less than what you've done, retaining global public opinion. These metaphors, and I've heard them from Israeli politicians, they melt under scrutiny. Please think about... By the way, the psychology is completely different between what's happening in the Second World War, German-European psychology, where you could rebuild a democratic country and what's happening in Hamas in Gaza.

54:39Piers Morgan:Unless we're clear, unless we have clarity over what the objectives are for Israel, Netanyahu's not talked about day one. We have no idea what the plan is, except for Smotris' idea of ethnic cleansing, which would tarnish Israel's image irredeemably. Yeah, I've got to leave it there. But Matthew, we do know. I've got to leave you there. We do know. I've got to say, Israel says they're going to take Gaza. They say Palestinians will never get a state. Israel, Israel. So we know. I don't know why you're obfuscating for Israel. It was Trump who said he would take Gaza. We're going to murder the Palestinians until we take Gaza.

55:17They say total annihilation. Why do I say the Germans? Because they're talking about the Germans. I can't believe you didn't hear that. They're talking about total annihilation of the Palestinians. The good thing is, we have a thing. We have a thing. Donald Trump said he's taking Gaza. We already know. The good thing is, if I may, the good thing is,

55:37Piers Morgan:it's come out of Smodrich's own mouth, the finance minister, that the plan is to, quote, cleanse Gaza of Palestinians. It was unequivocal. We all heard it. Smodrich is one guy in the government, and the next day Bibi told him that I totally disagreed. Then I get told he doesn't matter. No one listens to him, and yet the New York Times... I didn't say he doesn't matter. New York Times reported that the whole deal to release hostages... I completely disagree. The whole deal to release hostages a year ago was abandoned because of Smodrich. So a guy who doesn't matter managed to do that, which would have prevented tens of thousands of people being...

56:15Piers Morgan:That's not true. It is true. There were two ceasefires already against Smodrich. I'm going to leave it there. And he left the government, so that's not true. I'm going to leave it there. Smodrich... Here's the gotta be factual. Stop funding Israel. Smodrich is an evil human being. They should not... Give us the$300 billion back, Israel. And he is a senior government minister... We didn't send it for war crimes. ..who is making it clear what he wants to do. But, Piers, Piers, Piers, you're not... I've got to leave it there, Rabbi Shmuley. We have run out of time. I have another guest waiting. I'm going to leave it there.

56:43Piers Morgan:You all had a good time to speak. I appreciate the debate. Thank you very much. Matthew, it was great meeting you. God bless you. Well, joining me now is the actor and activist Jacob Berg, who is part of the second Freedom Flotilla headed for Gaza. Jacob, thank you for joining me on Uncensored. Oh, thanks so much for having me on the show. You know, I'm not a massive fan of these flotillas, as I think you're probably aware. I didn't really see the point of the one that Greta Thunberg embarked on. I'm not really sure what the aim is. If it's to raise awareness about what's happening in Gaza, I think the whole world is extremely aware of what is happening.

57:19Piers Morgan:And I don't see that anything that happened from the last flotilla has made a scintilla of difference to the situation. So why do you disagree? Well, I disagree with this because there's been an illegal siege on Gaza by Israel since 2006, 2007. It's funny that your guest, Daniela, kind of talked about Israel leaving Gaza. But obviously, we know that they've been stopping and blocking aid. What Israel is doing is completely illegal. And the flotilla, the goal of the flotilla is to break that siege, to hopefully inspire other people to create a humanitarian corridor, to bring much-needed aid to the people of Palestine who are being systematically genocided and the weaponization of starvation of food.

58:03And it's going to be very important that we continue on with this because as many times as Israel might stop us, we're going to keep going.

58:10Piers Morgan:Right, but like I say, the first flotilla with Greta Thunberg, it didn't achieve anything. Well, it wasn't the first flotilla, Pierce. This one that we're about to go on embark is the 37th. And what it did is it brought a lot of attention to what Israel is doing. But I just don't agree with that. The only one I was even aware of was the Greta Thunberg one. Well, you should be aware in 2010 that Israel boarded the flotilla and killed 10 activists. I'm aware of that, but you're talking about prior to October 7th then? Yeah, yes, we've been going since 2008, correct. OK, so I'm talking about what's happened since October 7th, and I think the reality of the Greta Thunberg flotilla is that a lot of publicity for Greta Thunberg, as her campaigns tend to do, but it was singularly ineffective.

58:56Piers Morgan:And I just don't... Well, it wasn't as far as bringing in aid, that's part of it, but the real part of it is to put the highlight, like I said, of the illegal blockade and siege of Gaza by Israel. What we're doing, trying to deliver aid, is totally legal. We're going in international waters, into Palestinian waters. But you're not going to be able to do it, are you? Can I finish, Pierce? it shows the evil of Israel and how they will do anything to stop us trying to help the people of Palestine. I mean, you would agree that weaponising starvation is immorally wrong, right? Yes, I would, and I've been very critical about it.

59:31Piers Morgan:And I think the fact that Israel won't allow any international journalists into Gaza is a complete disgrace. I'm just not convinced that these flotillas are anything more than, honestly, if I'm being completely honest, a bit of an ego trip for Greta Thunberg and people such as yourself, even though I don't question... Such as myself. Even though I don't question... I've been very active in... Just to be fair, I don't question your personal motivation. I think I probably agree with you about a lot of it. I'm just not sure these flotillas are anything other than a PR exercise. Well, you should speak to the people in Gaza, because the people in Gaza, this type of flotilla mission gives them a lot of hope.

1:00:09It shows that the world actually cares about them, and we're going to still do everything we can to try and break that siege. The real question is, why is Israel intimidated by a boat filled with peace activists just trying to bring food and diapers and baby formula to civilians?

1:00:24Piers Morgan:But you know you won't be able to get that to Gaza. That's not beside the point. We're trying to break through. If obviously Israel kidnaps us, which they did kidnap Greta, I know you kind of dragged her over the coals saying that it wasn't, but it was by all means a kidnapping. They kidnapped them in international waters. And it just further highlights the crimes of Israel. I actually think that using the word kidnap in the scenario of her simply being taken off and then led away... Yes, with all good respect, that is the kidnapping. To be honest, Jacob, Jacob, I actually just felt it was incredibly insulting to the hostages who were actually kidnapped to use a word like kidnapped when Greta Thunberg was given some sweets.

1:01:09Piers Morgan:and a nice drink and had a blanket put round her and was taken off the fatilla and then taken away. You were so good on this whole episode holding the Zionists to the coals and now you're reverting back to Zionist. No, no, I don't have a... I don't take sides. No, you are. You're talking about the sandwich and the thing and the selfie float and all that. I see what you're doing here. Well, I saw what happened. I saw the video footage. Yeah. Right? Right. What's your point? She wasn't kidnapped. And it's insulting to hostages who were kidnapped to say she was kidnapped. They came with weapons drawn.

1:01:44They came with weapons drawn, Pierce. OK, maybe you don't believe it to be so, but lawyers and international advocates would disagree with you.

1:01:53Piers Morgan:You feel comfortable using the word kidnapped, knowing what happened to so many hostages? Absolutely. The same way I wouldn't use the terms hostages for who's left in Gaza, they're all POWs at this point. They're all soldiers in there. OK. When do you hope to get to Gaza? Right now, we're having a pit stop here in Gallipoli, Italy. We'll be leaving out on Friday. It should take about a week for us to sail to Gaza. We're going to keep, you know, keep the attention of the world on what we're doing. And so about a week, eight days or so, assuming we don't get intercepted by Israel. OK, well, Jacob Berger, I wish you safe travel.

1:02:30Piers Morgan:I hope nothing untoward happens to you guys. And like I said... That's it? We had a whole... That's all? Huh? That's it? I don't think you're going to make a shred of difference to what's happening in Gaza whatsoever. No. Well, Pierce, I mean, honestly, I don't know why. You totally shifted your tone here. You know, you were being very critical of Danielle, and now you're acting like a Zionist with me. No, no, I'm not a Zionist. And I think it's despicable the way that you went after Greta, who has more courage and more honesty in her heart than you will ever have. Yeah, I don't agree with that either.

1:03:04Piers Morgan:But that's fine. That's your opinion. You're entitled to it. And you can tell Rabbi Shmuley that he'll burn in hell as well because obviously he's ashamed to Jews, him and Daniel. OK. And free Palestine. All right. Nice to see you, Piers. Good luck and I hope it goes safely for you. Thank you for joining me. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain.

1:03:38Piers Morgan:And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical. And we couldn't do it without you.