“You People Are INSANE!” 6 Woke Warriors Try To Prove Piers Morgan Wrong!

17:01I thought it would be very popular at Pride. You can feel included. Although gay men never hit on me.

17:05Piers Morgan:Never happens. It'll happen at Pride. It'll happen at Pride. I've never had a gay man come onto me in my adult life. It'll happen at Pride. It'll happen at Pride. I don't know what it is. I must radiate. It'll happen at Pride. Such amazing straight testosterone. Do you have a bit of gay in you? I'm not saying I want them to. Do you want a bit of gay? I'm just saying I've never had a gay man come onto me. We'll take you where it'll happen. Huh? We'll take you where it'll happen. Yeah, Piers, I'm going to make that happen to you. You'll love it. All right, we're going to move on to the second topic.

17:29Piers Morgan:But you guys stay, because everyone can join in. All right. This is Ernest Owens, author of The Case for Cancel Culture, which in itself is one of the most ludicrous book titles ever written. Oh, it's a beautiful book. You think Woke is Dead is bad, mate. Try The Case for Cancel Culture. Lovely, lovely title. Let's have a look at Ernest's greatest hits. Ernest, why would somebody so traumatized by Kevin Spacey send him naked pictures of himself? I think the larger point for me in all of this is that Kevin Spacey appears to have a bunch of skeletons in his closet. And I feel like the more he talks, the more I learn, and the more I learn more about him, the more I dislike him, and the more I don't want to buy a movie ticket to ever see him again.

18:07Piers Morgan:So, Yodis, you were so censorious about Kevin Spacey, who has fought two cases, one in a criminal court, one in a civil court. He won both. He's not convicted of any crimes. And yet many people like you believe he should be cancelled because you don't like the perception of your skeletons in his cupboard. Now, I mean, do you have a completely squeaky clean background, Ernest? If we would apply the Ernest Kevin Spacey logic to you, would you be appearing here on my show or would you have to cancel yourself? So, for starters, I just want to say that I am not saying that Kevin Spacey should be canceled forever.

18:47If you actually read my book, you know that I talk about how there's a process around accountability. He was dealt with with the courts. He has, you know, suffered, you know, consequences for his actions, and that's really what it's about, is about accountability. So this idea of, you know, defining things. You can misdefine walk the way you want to, which I disagree with how you're defining it in this book, but, you know, if you want to talk about council culture, it is about accountability. You haven't read my book. How do you know? And that was what I was calling for with the Kevin Spacey situation.

19:17Oh, hang on. No, I'm talking about the way you just defined on the show.

19:20Piers Morgan:Ernest, you ever read my book? How do you know it was in it? You just defined it. I said the way you defined it. I didn't talk about the whole book. I haven't defined the book at all. Here's what I'm going to say about cancel culture. Hang on, Ernest. Here's a passage from the book about cancel culture, your specialist subject. People were cancelled for the most pathetic reasons and the stampede of frenzied outrage. It was now impossible to be woke enough. I don't think anybody really wants to live in a society of curtain-twitching snitches and armchair detectives raking over problematic social media posts from a decade ago.

19:52Piers Morgan:I don't think anyone really enjoys walking on eggshells and waiting for a knock on the door from the fun police. We've been liberated from a tyranny of the always offended and given a fresh crack at a world without cancel culture. That's why it's so important that we don't replace it with something equally bitter, ideological, grievance-ridden and censorious. And there was a great example of this with the comedian Graham Linehan. Now, you know, not everyone agrees with his views, but he decided he was going to make this whole issue of the trans activism, an issue where he would defend women's rights.

20:22Piers Morgan:Maybe he went too far with some of his rhetoric, with some of his posts, maybe his jokes weren't that funny. But the idea that for posts on X in April, five armed police arrested him at Heathrow Airport and dragged him through the criminal mincer until, thank God, common sense prevailed, and the police announced not only were they not pursuing this case, but they were now no longer going to pursue at all any similar case like that because they realise it's not their job to police free speech. If he's not inciting violence, and he clearly wasn't, they tried to make out that he was, he was doing a crass joke, but he wasn't inciting violence against any individual.

21:00Piers Morgan:And I think that that is where my concern about cancel culture, is that if you're inciting violence, fine, that's not covered by free speech, no-one should defend it, right? But if you're just being unpleasant, offensive, maybe even a bit hateful, You may not like it, Ernest Owens, but I'm entitled to be all those things towards you, and you are to me. Uncensored is proudly sponsored by Cozy Earth, which, like me, delivers next-level quality and comfort. If I wasn't hosting this show today, I'd be wearing a pair of their bamboo joggers. Why? Well, they're buttery soft. They never lose their shape, and besides TV appearances, you can wear them for pretty much anything.

21:39Piers Morgan:Flights, school runs, or just relaxing at home. For those seeking intense comfort in more formal attire, take a look at their everywhere pants. Lightweight, breathable, ludicrously flexible, but still polished enough to wear out. If you're ready to look sharp and feel great, go to CozyEarth.com and use code PIERS, P-I-E-R-S, for up to 40 % off joggers, pants, shirts, everything. And remember to tell them that I sent you. Cozy Earth, built for real life. No one's disagreeing with that. I think what is important to note is that you're conflating several things. For starters, I think it's ironic that your book is called Woke is Dead and you're against cancel culture because clearly you want to cancel wokeism, which is your right.

22:23So you and I are on the same page, right? You clearly like cancel culture because your title is called Woke is Dead and you want to cancel wokeism.

22:30Piers Morgan:I'm doing to wokeism what cancel culture protagonists like you should want me to do. I'm canceling it. Well, no. No, I want to cancel bigotry and hatred and racism and transphobia. And that's my opinion. Well, then I would argue that some of the behaviors of the comedian you spoke on, I don't think that the government should infringe upon his free speech rights, which is one thing, right? So I agree with you. I don't think law enforcement should have gotten involved. That was wrong, right? But again, I say the same thing about the FCC with Jimmy Kimmel, right? You know, one of your guys, you know, that you tend to be speaking policy to about, the president of the United States, he wants to censor comedians who disagree with him politically.

23:08I think that that is a right-wing version of wokeism. Wokeism is not just from progressives and leftists.

23:14Piers Morgan:Let me surprise you. I don't disagree. I make the point in the book that you haven't read. You're going to tell him, Pierce. The woke right is showing tendencies which are exactly the things they criticize on the woke left. And I said that in my book, The Case for Cancel Culture, Pierce. So if you read my book, you will know that I talk about when progressives cancel and when conservatives cancel. I've been canceled. It's all subjective. You just cherry-pick whatever you don't like. So when you don't like something and it hurts you, then that's when you go against council culture, Pierce. But you're in favor of council culture.

23:44You are. You are woke, Pierce. You like it when it serves your benefit. You are woke.

23:50Piers Morgan:Easy, easy tigers. Look at this. Look at the woke pack coming for me. You're more woke than any of us. And you're more woke than any of us. And not only that, the beautiful thing about it is that you got Donald Trump on speed dial. So you need to call him up and tell him just what you said. Well, we're going to come to you and Donald Trump because you and I were on question time recently. We were. The BBC's flagship political show, in which you continue to call him Hitler and a Nazi. No, I didn't call him a Nazi. I called him Hitler. Well, Hitler was a Nazi. I can explain. You can explain why he's Hitler but not a Nazi.

24:19Piers Morgan:Yes, I can. I'd love to hear that explanation. Okay, very happy to. That's one of the maddest things you've ever said. Very happy to. Was Hitler a Nazi? Of course he was. Then you've just answered your very question. But the opposite doesn't mean the same. That doesn't mean it's true. Just because one preposition is true doesn't mean the other one is true. And I can explain it. All right, well, I'm going to come to you, Bonnie, because we... Don't worry, we've got a lot to discuss with you. OK, good. Ernest, finally on cancelled culture. You know, I do actually accept, for example... There's a good example of this in the UK at the moment.

24:47Piers Morgan:The president-elect of the Oxford Union Debating Society reacted to Charlie Kirk being murdered by posting on groups, LOL, laugh out loud, and then Charlie Kirk got shot, let effing go! In other words, he was celebrating the shooting. He says he didn't know he was actually dead, but the shooting of Charlie Kirk. Now, what made this particularly awful was that he had debated Charlie Kirk in the Oxford Union only four months before. Now, here's my point about him. I don't think he should be arrested for what he said. I don't think he should have government interference in censoring him or anything like that.

25:26Piers Morgan:He's perfectly entitled to what he said. But to your point about accountability, obviously he is unfit to be president of a debating society, and we should all agree that, right? We all like to debate, right? But I don't... If you were suddenly shot, or you were Bonnie, or you were James, or, God forbid, I was, I wouldn't expect anyone here to celebrate that news publicly in the way that that guy did. So we should be able to agree that some of the parameters here shouldn't be very contentious, right? And that is that if you do something as despicable as that, I don't want you arrested for it, I don't want you put in a prison cell, but I do want you held accountable for what you said.

26:05Piers Morgan:And if what you've done is completely incompatible with the position that you're trying to occupy, which clearly it is, you can't be here. We run a debate in society to celebrate people being killed for their views, then you should not be doing it. I was on the Oxford Union debate, actually. Sorry? So what's interesting, I was actually on the Oxford Union debate earlier this year with Dave Rubin. When you had him on your show that week, I was actually on that debate. And so I do know the players there. And I think what's important to note is, like, your point is correct. The way in which we define who we choose to cancel is based on our own standards or the standards to which you're upholding the role, which is about civility.

26:40And often what happens, what I notice with people on the right, is that they'll claim that they're being canceled when said audience or said group holds them accountable to the standards to which they've agreed to. So if you are a school teacher and you're making inappropriate remarks about your students that could be considered racist or sexist or problematic and you lose your job for that, you're not canceled for that. And I think that that's the problem, is that people are using that. So that's what I believe in. That's what cancel culture is about. I think it's about accountability in that type of way.

27:10I'm not saying that the government should stop your First Amendment rights, but I am saying that, you know, the court of public opinion can weigh, which is what I was saying about Kevin Spacey.

27:19Piers Morgan:Ernest, we may have very rarely have reached a point of almost agreeing with each other. So on that bombshell... It took us two years. It's taken a while, but I'll let you go. Thank you very much, Ernest. I want to bring in Dale Vince now, the eco-entrepreneur, a financial backer of the dearly departed Just Stop Oil. Welcome back, Vince. Dale, how are you? Yeah, I'm good, thanks, Piers. Good to see you again. I was really enjoying watching you and the panel just now. And I agree with you. My conclusion was the same. You got to the end and you all had more in common than you had in difference. Which I suspect is probably the case.

27:54Piers Morgan:I do think that social media in particular whips things up into sometimes what seems to me like quite artificial culture wars. What we've lost somehow, and I do blame a lot of this on social media, we've lost the ability to have passionate debate and then agree to disagree. And my argument about some of the elements of the woke left is that they began to behave in the last few years rather like the fascists they profess to hate most. And that's what I dislike about it. I've always liked a good debate. I've debated with you. But I don't want you destroyed for your views. I might want to destroy your argument, and you might want to destroy mine.

28:32Piers Morgan:But I wish you personally no animus at all. And in terms of the eco situation, for example, I was asked today in an interview about net zero. You know, Piers, what is your view of net zero? I said, well, look, my view is nuanced, something we don't see much of these days. I would love to get to a place of net zero. I just don't think we can do it quickly. I think you should have the aspiration to do it as fast as possible without bankrupting countries. I don't think that's a contentious view. I would say that's a pragmatic view, and I would say that it will take a number of years to do this, but there should be a concerted global effort to aspire to get there sooner rather than later.

29:10Piers Morgan:But if you try and say, as Greta Thumbo does, we've got to do this right now before the planet burns down in five minutes, it's a kind of ludicrous place, you know, where I feel she loses credibility and doesn't bring people with her. Similarly, in your area, with the protesters on the eco side, when they're running around ruining everybody's fun, they're going to the cricket and they're trying to ruin the test match wicked, or they're going to the snooker, they're throwing their paint all over the snooker base, whatever it may be, when they're shutting down bridges that people can't get to, in some cases, funerals or hospital appointments.

29:42Piers Morgan:When they do stuff like that, I don't think they bring people with them. They might think they do, and they might think the ascendant publicity they get is worth it, But actually, if it's always negative and all you're doing is pissing people off, I don't think it's effective. It doesn't work. Yeah. So where to start with all of that? I think your view on net zero is actually the common view. Actually, we conducted this thing called a gigapole about a month ago. We launched it a couple of weeks ago. We polled 50 ,000 people in our country. It's the biggest poll ever by breadth and by depth. We asked them 80 questions on a whole range of topics.

30:19And one of the things we got back was that the vast majority of people in our country believe that the climate crisis is a big threat to them and to their families in the future, and they want something done about it. They support net zero. But at the same time, a big chunk of those people, in fact, half of those people or half of the people we polled, said basically they were worried that we could afford it. Perfectly valid worry. What you expressed was a concern that we were going too fast. Those things travel together in the current, I'm going to call it this, right-wing narrative that we're hearing, particularly from Nigel Farage and from Kemi Badenoch, that net zero is somehow suddenly a bad idea and we'll bankrupt the country and we're moving too fast.

31:06Those arguments deserve scrutiny rather than just being accepted, And I'm up for that. The idea that left wing people are becoming like the right wing of fascists that they despise. I mean, you know, there's something in there. But the big difference between the protesters and their orange paint and right wing people using violence is the lack of violence in the left wing protests of Just Up Oil that you talked about. They put themselves in harm's way. Yes, they piss people off. There's no doubt about that. I think we've talked about that a lot, you and I, and I think the trade-off was worth it for a period of time.

31:41And then there was a point in time at which it didn't any longer make sense, and, you know, I kind of moved in a different direction and supported Labour to get them through the election. So, I mean, again, I agree with most of what you say. I think we need to scrutinise these arguments for being made, not just polarise and log bricks at each other.

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32:39Piers Morgan:So join them. Text my name, Piers, P-I-E-R-S, to the number 989898 for a free info kit and to claim your eligibility for free silver with qualifying purchases before the end of the month. Again, text my name, Piers, to 989898. Do it today. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I mean, I'm going to play a clip. This was when the vegan activist Joey Carbstrong came on to talk about his campaign against a restaurateur who had banned vegans. Let's take a look. Why don't you play me the sound of billions of bees being murdered? I know that animals get killed so they're like an EP. They're screaming to death.

33:18Piers Morgan:Right. Look at them, face them. What do you think bees do? Face them, they're screaming to death. What do you think bees do when you murder them? They get killed by mice. This is gas chamber. Look at it. No, no, no. You don't even want to look at it. They get slaughtered. Coward. You're a coward. I'm not cowardly. I know that animals get slaughtered. So that I can eat animal meat. I've stuck this camera in this gas chamber in the UK at Pilgrim's Pride, and they scream for their lives, and every single animal welfare charity are against them. Here's my problem. And you eat bacon, and you promote it.

33:42Piers Morgan:I love bacon. You promote it. I love bacon. You say you're against that. I love sausages. I love it all. I love eating meat. Now, you see, the thing is, he was never going to persuade me, because I do love eating meat. And by the way, spoiler alert, animals eat animals. That's how they all survive in the bush. I write this in the book, specifically about the, in my view, the rank hypocrisy of a lot of vegans. Hectoring and hypocrisy are, again, the main issues I have. The vegan millennial meal of choice is avocado toast with an almond milk latte. Large-scale production of both avocados and almonds is disastrous for the environment.

34:15Piers Morgan:They don't have to talk about it, so I will. First, it decimates bees, without which there would be no flowers or crops. Secondly, both almond and avocado trees gulp preposterous quantities of water from already parched lands. It takes four litres of water to grow one single almond and 150 almonds to make a single carton of almond milk. An avocado tree inhales 320 litres of water to produce just one avocado. Every single order of Instagram's most ubiquitous brunch choice has ingested enough water to hydrate a child for a year, but I'm the monster because I like cheese. Now, I'm sorry, but I present the evidence, you know, for my defence of this, is that underpinning a lot of these eco-campaigns is a hypocrisy.

35:02Piers Morgan:And I do think in the vegan case, if you're strict vegan and you genuinely care about the plight of living creatures, you can't be guzzling avocados and almonds because billions of bees get killed and it's environmentally disastrous. Do you agree, Dale Vince? This reminds me, we've talked about this before on your show, if you remember, and you asked me if I eat avocados repeatedly. And I told you I do, but it's occasional. It's not frequent. The idea that vegans eat avocados every day is silly. Maybe there was a lot of them on Instagram, but it doesn't represent what plant-based people eat. I think you told me that all the avocados in the world came from America or somewhere like that.

35:44Piers Morgan:Yeah, it's a massive amount from California, yeah. That's right. And I said to you, actually, I get them from Spain, and you asked me how. Yeah. How do you know that? And I said, well, I read the label, Pierce. Do you remember that? Yeah, well, I think I asked you how they got to you from Spain. It's obviously not that environmentally friendly, is it? No, you asked me how I knew my avocados didn't come from the USA. And I did some research, and only 20 % of the avocados in the world actually come from the USA, so I agree with you. It's about facts, and your facts, your presentation of facts, is only partial in your book from what you just described, because if you went on to compare almond milk to dairy milk, you would find dairy milk is the most water-intensive form of milk that we can have.

36:25Almond is the worst of the alternatives in water consumption. Oat is probably the best. There's a range of them, but dairy milk outpaces them all in water consumption.

36:35Piers Morgan:Apparently 40 % of the world's avocados... Is it avocados or almonds? Just 40 % of the world's avocados come from Mexico, just as far as California. They originally come from South Africa. It's a little bit further. Yeah. That's their home. The point was they don't all come from America. And facts are really important. And you had a fact that you thought supported your argument. Well, I think it's 80 %... Well, I think you're conflicting with the two things. I think it's about 80 % of the world's almonds come from California, specifically. It's an incredibly large amount. No, we're talking about avocados.

37:04No, we're talking about avocados, because I definitely told you I got... The avocados that I did eat were from Spain.

37:09Piers Morgan:Do you agree if you're a genuine pure vegan and your position is you don't like killing animals, you can't eat avocados or almonds? You can't? Well, here's the thing. All the plants that we eat are pollinated by bees in the world and other insects. That happens. Pollinators have a crucial role to play. The farming of bees and the using of them, the harnessing of them in vast numbers to run farms for avocados and stuff is not something that I agree with. Do you know how many bees... Genuine question. How many bees get killed every year in the pollination process in California? You told me before that it was billions.

37:4850 billion bees on average. That's a lot.

37:51Piers Morgan:50 billion. What was going on to say? Why don't you guys care about the little guys? That's what you said before. It's a good line because it's true. It's a great line. I just wanted to say I don't eat honey because actually, you know, that's the extent to which I'm plant-based. I don't eat honey. So I have the occasional avocado. They come from Spain. I think I'm turning you into a purer version of yourself. I'm not going to be a big fan of the B's in California. I'm not going to be a big fan of the B's in California. And here's the point. It's an interesting debate. I've become a world expert in almonds and avocados, something I never thought I would be, all the life span of B's in California.

38:25Piers Morgan:But it should be something we should be able to debate without everyone losing their minds. And we should be able to reach points of consensus. Because I'm not an immovable object when it comes to these things. And actually, one of my arguments BUSINESS ABOUT THE WOKE LEFT. I IDENTIFIED FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS OF MY LIFE AS A PRETTY LIBERAL BLOKE. I WAS IN A DAILY MIRROR FOR 10 YEARS. YOU DON'T GET TO DO THAT IF YOU ARE A RIGHT-WING HEADBANGER. I FIND SO LITTLE IN COMMON WITH THIS PURITANICAL, CENSORIOUS, JUDGMENTAL VIEW OF LIFE WHERE YOU EITHER CONFORM TO THIS NARROW WORLD VIEW OR YOU HAVE TO BE DESTROYED.

39:01Piers Morgan:I think it's been damaging to society. And that's on the right, too. It can happen on the right. I don't disagree. It does happen on the right. That's on the right. It was great that you said woke left. Right, exactly. That does admit that there is a woke right. There is a woke right. I make the point. Look, I agree with you, and I think it should be about facts. And when we first debated this, you thought you had well-being facts on almonds and avocados, and they weren't right. Now you've come back with improved facts. I like that. The fact you're missing in the milk description in your book is dairy milk.

39:31You need to improve your facts to show the whole picture. And I love to debate facts. Facts inform arguments. Facts can persuade people. And that's where I'm at. Not lobbying insults with people and trying to drive their own behaviour, just because of what I think.

39:44Piers Morgan:OK. Dale, it's good to talk to you. Appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much. Thanks, Chris. Let's move to another issue now. Professor Gansad, the evolutionary behaviour scientist, who is not woke, but was one of the first to take issue with the name of my new book. Gansad, welcome back to Uncensored. What is wrong with Woke is Dead.

40:03Gad Saad:Thanks for having me back. I haven't read it yet, but just from the title, it's a bit presumptuous to celebrate that all of the parasitic ideas that constitute wokeism are now eviscerated. Well, I don't say...

40:17Piers Morgan:To be clear, I don't say this. This is more an aspirational title. I make it clear that woke is still there. It's dying out. And the reason I say that is you're seeing screeching reversals now around the world in things like corporate DEI policies, in the trans issue of trans athletes and women's sport. You know, time and again, we're seeing the reaction to things like the Graham Linehan arrest immediately reversed by, I think, huge public opinion against it. What you're seeing is a response now from, I believe, the majority of people who have a common sense valve saying, we're just not having this anymore, sorry.

40:53Piers Morgan:So that's what I mean by, I believe the ideology is dying out, But we have to make sure it is killed off, because I do believe, genuinely, it's been very damaging.

41:04Gad Saad:I mean, it's undoubtedly true that there has been a bit of an autocorrection. I mean, just having Donald Trump win the presidency resulted in immediate executive orders that reversed many of the nonsense. But to draw an analogy from biology, there is something called viral latency in biology, right, where a virus can lay dormant in you for years, if not decades, before it gets activated. Take, for example, the shingles virus, which would be relevant to people that are roughly our respective ages. It could be in you from childhood, and then it only hits you when you're in your 50s and 60s. So these parasitic ideas that constitute wokeism took between 50 to 100 years to first be spawned and then proliferate from the university ecosystem.

41:53Gad Saad:So it'll take much longer than what you're talking about, the reversal of the DEI stuff or Donald Trump. It's going to require many, many years of eviscerating these dreadful ideas. But yes, I am hopeful just like you are. That's actually an insane thing to say, though, because wokeism, or whatever you want to call it, has existed since literally when Jesus was here. Jesus was woke. I mean, that's the whole point. Love thy neighbour, have empathy for people, and he was literally killed for speaking truth to power. So what you're talking about is not something that's only existed for the last 6100 years.

42:26Yeah, but just to be clear,

42:27Piers Morgan:you're implying that people who reject the wokeism are somehow against kindness or empathy or those things. I'm not. I want people to be kind and empathetic. It's the scolding, the vilifying, the shaming, the cancelling... That seems to be coming from the right towards the left, especially in the case of your book. Well, no, it doesn't, actually. If you read the book... Well, I've read some of the book. We haven't read it all. I have read some of the book. As always, you basically blame the left for the rather than men. You come with a limiting amount of information on which you base your statements.

42:55Am I wrong by saying that you say that the left have basically... The Me Too movement have basically caused men to feel like they can't flirt with women? Isn't that what you say?

43:04Piers Morgan:I said, if you read the book, I say that there are a lot of bad men who've done bad things, but actually the over-demonisation of things like masculinity... So you're blaming... I've just phrased it very deliberately. There are bad men and there are bad women, right? But there's nothing wrong with femininity or masculinity. These are things that should be treasured and prized in a civilised, free democratic society. Coming back to Gad, I want to play a clip. This is of Lily Gaddis, who came on to try and defend, to me, the indefensible. Let's take a look. I mean, would you use the N-word out of interest?

43:37Yes.

43:38Piers Morgan:You would? I do, quite frequently. You use the N-word quite frequently. Well, why? Other than the fact you're a despicable racist. Are you? Some would say I am. I guess, according to the ADL, I'm a white supremacist. I'm a neo-Nazi. Yeah, well, if you use the N-word repeatedly, you are a racist, then, are you? Sure, I'll embrace that. If that means forwarding, you know, helping white people achieve freedom of speech, real freedom of speech, which, by the way, includes... I mean, Shiloh Hendricks is being attacked on all fronts. They're trying to bring legal charges against her. They're trying to get her children taken away.

44:13So you were saying, Carmelo Anthony, it doesn't matter.

44:17Piers Morgan:I mean, a pretty staggering thing to say on a show like this. I want to read a quote, Gad, from the book about this issue. I said, we're now seeing the first early murmurings of a new brand of sin in this from right-wing people who have spent years railing against all things woke. They have very different opinions about the world, but use the woke tactical playbook to win arguments and get what they want. You don't have to travel far on social media before you encounter a furious straight white Christian man who's convinced the whole world is against him. And I do believe that is becoming an increasing issue.

44:48Piers Morgan:In the same way that I found a lot of the woke activists incredibly hypocritical, I also think it's very hypocritical of people on the right to start behaving like the very people they've been criticising for years for being hypocritical wokies. Right.

45:03Gad Saad:So let me tie what you just asked with what the gentleman before mentioned about Jesus. The idea that human minds can be parasitized has existed since time immemorial. So in that sense, he's right. But wokeism involves a specific set of bad ideas. Two, three hundred years ago, we used to think that it was a good idea to throw a woman into a body of water. And if she swam, that meant that she was a witch. So the capacity for human minds to be parasitized has always existed. The term wokeism relates to specific parasitic ideas that are contemporary. Regarding your other point, both people on the right and on the left could have parasitized minds.

45:45Gad Saad:So for example, when it comes to accepting evolution, it's people on the right that are against it. But when it comes to applying evolution to the study of the human mind, it's people on the left that are against it. So it's not a political orientation issue, although all of the parasitic ideas that constitute wokeism do stem from the left, because all of those ideas come from the university ecosystem. And it is largely professors on the left that inhabit the university ecosystem.

46:18Piers Morgan:Do you believe it's dying, wokeism, as a concept, as an ideology?

46:23Gad Saad:Not fully. So that's why I wouldn't throw the celebration parades yet. For example, in Canada, we don't have an agent of change like Donald Trump. And so I recently had to appear in front of a House of Commons committee where I was trying to argue that it is wrong to use DEI when judging scientific excellence. But for many of the people that serve in the Canadian Parliament, that was blasphemous for me to say that. And so, yes, there is some autocorrection taking place, but I wouldn't throw the party yet. Donald Trump is an agent of change. What change?

47:03Piers Morgan:Well, Donald Trump is clearly an agent of change. You may not like the change. No, no, I'd like to know what the change is.

47:08Gad Saad:Can I offer one?

47:09Piers Morgan:Yeah, offer again.

47:10Gad Saad:Not having six foot four women with nine inch penises that used to be called Bubba yesterday, but today are called Linda sharing the bathroom with my 13-year-old daughter would constitute a return to... Now, can you answer the question in a non-silly way? Because I don't know anybody's 6 '9". Can you answer the question in terms of what you mean? Yeah, I've never seen a penis that long. Yeah, and a penis that long. So can you answer it in terms of real-world things? What do you mean? Having reversed the policy of having trans women, i.e. biological men, competing in women's sport, until 15 minutes ago, the 117 billion people that had existed on Earth throughout human history seemed to be able to navigate through the very difficult conundrum of what constitutes male and female.

48:07Gad Saad:But 15 minutes ago, we were no longer able to do that. Actually, you're wrong, because there have been cultures in which they have made definitions of what male and female are. And they're not majority cultures. They're not the ones that we live in. But through human history, this has always been an issue, always. In those cultures that you're referring to, which I'm very familiar with, the field of cultural anthropology, WHEN PEOPLE DECIDED TO MATE IN THOSE CULTURES, DID THEY TYPICALLY MATE BY HAVING TWO PHENOTYPES CALLED MALE AND FEMALE GET TOGETHER? YES, YES. YOU'RE RIGHT. BUT I'M SAYING YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

48:44SO THEY KNEW WHAT MALE AND FEMALE

48:46Gad Saad:WAS. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. BUT YOU DO KNOW AS WELL THAT THERE WERE CULTURES IN WHICH THOSE TWO THINGS FLOWED BACK AND FORTH. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PROCREATION, OF COURSE THAT'S TRUE. BUT THERE WERE ALSO DEFINITIONS OF MALE AND FEMALE THAT WENT BACK AND FORTH.

49:00Piers Morgan:We're straying into actually a different area, which I want to discuss with another guest. Gad, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it very much. Good to have you back. I want to bring in Blossom now to talk about this trans issue. Blossom, welcome back to Uncensored. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back, so I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

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49:44Piers Morgan:Here's the clip we're going to play you. You know, Riley, I think you're just trying to make it seem like that trans people are a threat to cis women in the breast room, and that's not the case. Trans women and cis women should be coming together. Trans women are not a threat to cis women. OK, but here's the look. Blossom, Blossom, Blossom. And I think that y 'all have ran on that ideology. Y 'all have ran on that ideology for a very long time. Blossom, hang on, hang on, hang on. And you're going to have to specifically tell me cases. Blossom, time out. Can you specifically tell me cases of where the last women have to...

50:15Piers Morgan:Well, Blossom, that was you and Riley Gaines debating the Trump trans in women's sport ban. I say in the book, trans women in female sports is cheating on steroids or hormonal therapy anyway. and as with so much in the woke obituary, the kid gloves are now off. Polite and reasoned objection was met with increasing insults to common sense till eventually the whole farce was flattened by a clunking fist. That clunking fist being Donald Trump winning back the White House and making one of his first acts, banning trans athletes in women's sport because he understands that most people think it's unfair.

50:49Piers Morgan:Now, that doesn't mean, Blossom, that I have any problem with trans people. It just means they can't compete against women in women's sport because they're biologically male, so have an advantage. I see you're still acting stupid, Piers. How are you? Did you miss me? Not massively, no. I did a bit, Blossom. I did a bit. Love it, Blossom. Listen, Piers, let me tell you something. Being trans starts with gender identity, not biological sex. So until you acknowledge that conversation, we can't really have a conversation. No, no. To be clear, let me deal with that head on. You are entitled to identify as anything you like.

51:31Piers Morgan:You will never have anything. No complaint with me. The problem comes when you try and compel everybody else to respect whatever their identity is. I am trying to compel everybody else to understand. Hang on. Hang on. Because you interrupted a black trans woman. Do not interrupt a black trans woman when she's speaking. What I'm trying to say to you. You asked me a question. I'm trying to say to you. Let women speak. You asked me a question. Let women speak. Women speak, Pierce. Thank you, thank you, thank you. See, I'm a big fan of both of y 'all, by the way. I'm a big fan of you. I love you. Love you.

52:01All right, give me stop this annoying money. Love you. Take up space, baby girl. Come on, baby. Take the mic. Take it. Yeah, it's just about being on a whole spectrum. Nobody is saying that people cannot have their views on trans people. But let's speak facts. Trans women do not have a benefit over cis women in sports because even with Riley Gaines, Riley Gaines is still a fifth-place loser. Four biological women beat her in that sport. It's just that, ironically, Leah Thomas, a trans woman, tied with her and she made it a big deal. You're missing the point. She got clout off of that. You're missing the point, Blossom.

52:37Blossom. And see, y 'all are calling you both...

52:39Piers Morgan:Permission to speak, Blossom. Permission to speak. Yes, hold on, hold on. Permission to speak. I'm going to lay my plate. Hang on. Hang on. How did Leah Thomas... How did Leah Thomas perform when she performed as a man in the swimming pool? Hold on just a second. Let me land this or whatnot. Y 'all are coining at the term woke, but I find it ironically, Pierce, that you use African-American vernacular as the title of your book to benefit from it. When it's been culturally rooted in the 1930s in the black community. Further back than that. You are trying to profit and benefit off of black folks.

53:14Yes, ma 'am. Let me make an example. When you go promote this book over on Fox and Friends, when you booty clap them cheeks... Which I will be, by the way, in about a week. Woke is dead will be on Fox and Friends. Let me tell you something. You're going to have that one black magistrate that work over there at Fox and Friends kiss your feet and worship you because you have white privilege. You are a product of white supremacy and you are a colonizer. Colonizer all over there. Colonizer. Anything else you want to call me, Blossom? And also, can I add to that? This book wouldn't exist. No, I got that off my chest.

53:48And by the way, it's Blossom C. Brown, so make sure you get it right. And woke is a Black American expression, and I'm going to tell you this from history, and that's the tragedy about it. And Pierce, I'm going to say to you, I know you wouldn't denigrate, and I know you. I know you wouldn't denigrate something if you got the whole history of it. I know you wouldn't do it. But woke was the password for people on the Underground Railroad.

54:15Piers Morgan:I know. I read about all this in my first book. It's in there? Okay. So I don't know who appropriated woke, and I don't know why they did. But we need to go back to a beautiful expression that's being trashed or being misused. And I want to stand up for woke. I want to stand up for the word. The problem is... Because my ancestors... Hang on. My ancestors and Blossom's ancestors, when we were escaping slavery, you followed the Big Dipper. And when you went to a safe house, the password was woke. Yes, I don't remember anybody. Listen, I hear you. I don't remember anybody in the 60s in black American music where it originated saying that woke meant that men with penises could compete in the swimming pool against women.

54:58Piers Morgan:Sorry, that wasn't part of wokeism. I understand why y 'all. Why are you so fascinated with body parts? That was not what it was about. That has been hijacked by a bunch of science-denying people who think there is genuinely no advantage to biological males against women in sport. And there is. And this was never what wokeism was about. Do not have an advantage over cis women. There is something called genetics. There are some cis women with higher levels of testosterone. It's called genetics. So what would happen... Genetics is biology here. It's biology. And so you keep saying that people don't believe in science.

55:32I don't think you or the right believe in it.

55:33Piers Morgan:My friend James wants to have a gender-neutral Olympics, next Olympics, which is LA, actually. Would you support that? You've asked me this last time, and I got a lot of flack about it. Yeah, so what's the answer? Yes, I do believe the Paralympics and the Olympics can be played together because I believe with the Paralympics, they can be able to be more supported, just like the Olympics actually are. Sorry, you would like to put the Paralympians into the regular Olympics? Yes, I do. So that way, some of them can actually see... You know what, Blossom, you have somehow managed to get even madder than you were last time you were here.

56:05Piers Morgan:Can I make it actually clear? All that would happen, just to be clear, is that no Paralympian would then win a medal. Congratulations. Let me make it very clear. Congratulations on unveiling the least fair, inclusive policy imaginable. I think... Same if you put women and then in the same Olympics together, compete against each other. Women don't win anything. I just want to make one tiny, tiny point. I think that the Paralympics should be able to see the discrimination and the inequalities that trans people like me face when they're put in that same sport. And I'm going to stand ten toes down on that.

56:44You know what? I have an answer. Who going to check me, boo-boo? Blossom? Who going to check me, boo-boo? I said what I said. I don't want to check your boo-boo.

56:50Piers Morgan:I don't want to check your boo-boo, Blossom, but here's the deal. Nor do I want you competing in women's sport. You can have your own... Say what now? You can have your own category, trans sport, or you can compete in men's sport because you're a biological male. That is why trans women play with women in sports. There are not enough trans athletes. There are less than 10 trans athletes out of 510 ,000 athletes. According to the NCAA, y 'all don't want to hear those facts. Y 'all don't want to hear those statistics. Just to be clear. You just want to benefit off of our experience. Just to be clear.

57:24And we are tired of you, colonizer. We are disgustingly tired of you, Piers Morgan. You are a colonizer. You know what, Blossom?

57:30Piers Morgan:I don't think you'll ever get tired of me. You love it too much. You love me too much. You love me too. I think you're just quietly quite attracted to me. I'm going to leave it there. Why do you always bring it back to that shit? Just because we disagree with you. Blossom, good to see you. We're not attracted to you. We're going to stick around for this one, Blossom, because we're going to end with BLM. Bonnie, I'm going to focus this with you. I want to play. This is where I was arguing with you and Paul Arone Adrian about the issue of whether reparations should be paid to the African-American population for previous crimes of slavery.

58:01Piers Morgan:Let's take a look. The United Kingdom was actually on the side of the Confederacy during the Civil War, and in fact was going to send a ship to the Confederacy to fight for it when it was stopped and warned by Lincoln and paid an indemnity to the United States. Who is going to pay me and my family reparations for what the Vikings did to us? Well, I think you should seek it out. Who's going to? Explore it. So, literally, so we go back over every invasion, every bad thing. And this is what upset me. Let me finish. It is the ideology of denial. No, it's not. It's the ideology of denial. I'm not denying anything happens.

58:41Piers Morgan:So then let's deal with it. Well, I've been to Scandinavia, and guess what? They're not going to pay us trillions of dollars for what the Vikings did, despite my best... You look better now, Peter. That's amazing. What's that? You look better now. Well, I get better with age. Well, you look great. No, seriously. No, no, James is thinking the same thing. All right. He just went a minute on public camera. So I say this in my book. For a while, everything had to be racist. British MPs debated the report on why our countryside, the actual fields and forests, are racist and colonial. US protests turned into the ludicrous defund the police movement.

59:13Piers Morgan:The idea was to eradicate police altogether on the basis that some police are racist, even as carnage raged on the streets. None of the defunders ever had a good answer to the question of who else they would call if a maniac was battering down their back door. Liberal darlings like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, an incoming vice president at the time, Kamala Harris, preposterously supported these moves. So here's my point to you, Bonnie, about BLM. Yes. BLM came out of a truly horrific thing, the appalling murder of George Floyd and the person that did it serving a very long prison centre, quite ruddy.

59:47Piers Morgan:That eight-and-a-half-minute video is one of the worst things I've ever had to watch. It was despicable. So let's just, you know, I think we can all agree on that, right? The question is then how does society respond? What we saw, and I think there's an interesting thing here about double standards. We saw a lot of rioting around America, a lot of cities being smashed up, a lot of damage being done, a lot of police being attacked, and yet we saw very little accountability for that compared to what happened, say, on January 6th when you had the Trump supporters attacking the Capitol. Again, a reprehensible incident, one that was despicable at the time, and I've said it ever since.

1:00:25Piers Morgan:No defence for what happened that day. And I do think Donald Trump's rhetoric fuelled a lot of the behaviour of those people. But if you look at the way they all got dished out with very long prison sentences, sometimes way out of kilter with what they'd actually done on the day, and compared to what happened to the BLM protesters, there is a double standard there. So whilst I completely concede that black Americans have had a tougher life in the history of the United States than their white counterparts, I also think we've got to a stage now where black protesters were treated more leniently than their white counterparts on January 6th.

1:01:02Piers Morgan:Can we agree that? Can I...? Absolutely not. The January 6th rioters were... Their expenses were commuted by Donald Trump. They didn't even spend prison time. Well, that's a different matter. So, let's make that very clear. Let's make that very clear. And he still is inciting political violence. That's because he got back... You cannot compare apples to oranges here. You're trying to compare a movement that is about black equality to an insurrectionist. You can't compare apples to oranges, and I think you're being intellectually dishonest by saying that. Thank you. The question was actually for Bonnie, but thank you.

1:01:35Yeah, I... I know.

1:01:37Piers Morgan:I'm sorry you felt the need to interrupt another black... No, no, that's all right. She's right. She's right. Very unfortunate you speak over a fellow black woman. So my point, Bonnie, is this. I think there was a double standard, and that never helps anybody in what I believe is the most important thing, to be intellectually honest, right? You're right. So let me be intellectually honest with you and say that you sound like you have actually accused Donald Trump of being responsible for January 6th. No, no. Hang on. Not wholly. Well, wholly. But I do think his rhetoric inflamed the situation.

1:02:10Why is he president of the United States?

1:02:11Piers Morgan:Because Americans voted for him. That's a rhetorical question. A lot of it is because of the woke movement driving people away from the left into the arms of the right. The Democrats in America, your beloved Democrats, have never polled... To the Constitution that he denigrated. Bonnie, Bonnie, I'm about to give you a terrible fact. What is that? The Democrats in America, your beloved Democrats, have never polled more unpopular than they do right now in recorded history. You know why? They didn't get the memo from my last book, Wake Up. I'm not a Democrat. And they followed the woke ideology. I know, but...

1:02:47But that's their problem. That's their problem. Listen, peers, first of all, to compare an insurrection against the Capitol of the United States, led by the president, to a bunch of boys, who should be in jail, by the way, who break into Gucci's to get some shoes. I didn't compare them. Hang on, no, you didn't. I'm doing it. You cannot compare what happened in the George Floyd, which I don't agree with. I've said it online. I don't understand what protesting for black rights has to do with breaking into Gucci's, okay? So if you're going to put these two things next to each other, the equivocation is deeply incorrect.

1:03:24Deeply incorrect. I wasn't. No, you had them in the same sentence.

1:03:28Piers Morgan:No, no. All I was comparing was the punishment meted out for very similar offenses. You have put them in the... If you commit acts of violence, you should be treated the same. You have put them in... No, no. They're not the same. An insurrection against the United States is not the same as somebody shoplifting. It isn't, Piers. You know it isn't. and we shouldn't put that on the same line. I'm not talking about shoplifting. I'm talking about attacking police officers. Well, they shouldn't have... Both sets of... Both groups attack police officers. You're right, and they should have been in jail.

1:03:56They should get similar sentences. And I'm telling you this as a Southsider from Chicago. They should have been taken down. But to compare an insurrection against the United States, there is no comparison. There is no territory that you can put those two things in the same space. That's my objection to you.

1:04:12Piers Morgan:On BLM, obviously, I was at the Arsenal game at the weekend, for example, against Fulham. I think, like all these things, it's hard to stop them. Yes. You know, it's like when people do memorials of things or whatever. It's like when you stop it without causing offence. It's a problematic thing once you launch these things. But I'm not against the occasional reminder that actual, there's racism still in football around the world and it should be stamped out. I think racism is one of the worst things in the world. I think homophobia is. I think transphobia is. If you genuinely despise people for being trans, I hate you.

1:04:44Piers Morgan:So what is your point? My point about BLM is this. Yes. Did the reaction to George Floyd's murder in the end, was that movement, do you think, beneficial or not in the long term? BLM was a kind of insurrection and it was also an invention. The invention lasted longer than the insurrection. That's my issue with BLM. Even the title to me is banal. What does that mean? So there were people's feelings about what happened, this horrific murder, as you will say. And I'm old enough to say to you that I've lived through several of these in my lifetime. And the BLM movement, which actually some of it was business, literally business.

1:05:30Yeah, and corrupt in some cases. And that is my problem with that.

1:05:34Piers Morgan:And also, I think the other thing, you know, I cite in the book. One more thing, Pierce. and the fact that it became business is indicative of the fact that there were human beings involved and they saw retail opportunities. And on DEI, Bonnie, my issue with DEI is that, like a lot of things, it sounds okay in principle, but the way it was executed and why it's been reversed now by most companies is because what it ended up doing was promoting mediocrity over meritocracy that actually I believe everyone should get the same opportunity. That we should all agree on. But once that ladder starts up at any business or industry, then meritocracy should be dominant.

1:06:15Piers Morgan:You should be promoted based on your abilities, not on your skin colour or your gender. Absolutely right. Do you agree with that? I do, but this is the historical problem. We're in a moment where, and again, to say this from my own background and my age and where I grew up, there is a long, long history, not you particularly, but men like you, being able to get jobs, being able to be promoted. Sure. So that history is being corrected very recently in historical record. Yeah, yeah. So you get things like that as a way to sort of jumpstart it. I agree. I do not have an issue with you about this, but I'm saying that the reason it happens is because we've got to accelerate...

1:06:59We've got to accelerate equality. We must. If we don't accelerate equality, Pierce, we're losing genius. We could be losing genius.

1:07:07Piers Morgan:No, no, I don't disagree, but here's the point I would make. I don't think it helps the cause of getting to genuine equality if you promote mediocrity above people's ability and people who have more ability are suppressed in the process. Well, well... That actually just creates antagonism and resentment. You're absolutely right, but you're making an assumption that I hope in your book you've given some details about. I don't know if mediocrity is overcoming... Well, no, there are many examples of that. I don't know. That's why they mainly scrapped the AI. I don't want media... Well, no, it isn't the reason they did it.

1:07:41The reason they did it is because Donald Trump wanted them to do it. And also Donald Trump penalised people, and his government penalises those who don't. I can tell you, as a person who came through affirmative action, that I wouldn't have been able to go to university if it didn't exist. I wouldn't be able to be talking to you if it didn't exist. No, but that's a long...

1:08:00Piers Morgan:No, it is a long time ago. Not as long... I'm going to be rude about it. No, I'm not... No, you say what you want. We've been talking several decades ago. No, no. You say what you want because you're right. It took a long time for them to get there. And this takes a long time. It takes a long time of re-evaluating, re-getting together. People want to be who they are. And in that society, we have to find mechanisms in which to do it. DEI is a method. DEI is a moment. There are going to be other things if we give each other a chance. You and I can have a debate, a decent debate, and come out of it.

1:08:36And there are parts of the United States where you and I would not be able to do this, and you know that. And there are stations where you and I would not be able to sit here and have this. And the people who are listening to us now, they're not going to sit there and take sides with you. I'm going to get your book. There are not going to be people sitting there who are going to take sides with me or you. there are going to be people who are going to be enlightened because they're listening to us having a decent debate.

1:09:04Piers Morgan:I agree. I agree. And you know what? Let's leave it on that positive note because actually what I want to achieve with this book is not more acrimony and division, but people to read it and be pleasantly surprised it's not what they think it is. I don't... You know, I think when you read it in totality, you'll come away and think, well, he's got a pretty good point here. But I wouldn't buy it with your title, Pierce. Why? Because I don't want to read nothing called Woke is Dead. It's a great title. It's a nice thing. But I don't like it is also like it's a shame you I a lot of what you're saying is right a lot of it is Conflating issues ultimately.

1:09:37I think the reason I invited you to pride earlier is because we haven't like the woke left We haven't invited you along and we've right we've failed that right everyone needs to feel you'd rather just

1:09:47Piers Morgan:You'd rather just scold us old white dudes and ban us from having a white dude day and that's fine What's a white dude? A white dude day is every day. I'm going to white dude month. A white dude day is every day. I want to say goodbye to Blossom. Blossom, it's always good fun having you on, Uncensored. You're always welcome. My church is open to you, so thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it. Good. Well, go and buy Woke is Dead. You might learn something. I think we should get a free copy, considering... I think we should, too. The book wouldn't even exist. We should probably be getting royalties, because if it wasn't for the Woke left, you wouldn't have a book.

1:10:19Piers Morgan:Well, OK. That's an argument for another date. Guys, thank you all very much. I appreciate the civility with which we conducted, the debate about what being dead. It is dead, but it's good to see... No, it's not. It's good to see a few weeds still sprouted. It's very much alive. It's very much alive. Take care. Thank you. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain.

1:10:56Piers Morgan:And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

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