"You're a DISGRACE!" Don Lemon Arrested + Epstein Files | Brett Ratner Speaks!

20:43Brett Ratner:He wasn't an intellectual by any means. He was a useful idiot to a bunch of groups. And I don't know who. And I think therein lies some of the most important information that could come from an additional investigation, FBI, CIA, whoever. But but dig into further where those those funds came from. Not a smart man. And listen to his answers. It's almost pedestrian in nature, yet he somehow amassed$60 billion of worth and had the strings to pull at some of the most influential people on the planet.

21:17Piers Morgan:You've seen their vibrant ads, illuminating billboards and train stations for many years. Now it's time you actually saw the show. Shen Yun is celebrating its 20th anniversary, a dazzling run which has seen iconic performances at iconic venues like the Kennedy Center, the London Coliseum and the Sydney Opera House. Each season tours to more than 200 cities worldwide. You'll see classical Chinese dance, a live orchestra and stunning animated backdrops which bring to life 5 ,000 years of Chinese civilization. World-class performers in flawless costumes tell a story of myths, legends, warriors and heavenly realms all set to stunning music.

21:56Piers Morgan:It's been described as inspiring, uplifting and life-affirming. And if you're looking for an unforgettable gift for your family, I really recommend that you check it out. Visit ShenYum.com slash peers to waive all ticketing fees when you order. That's ShenYum.com slash peers. And you know what's interesting? He did graduate from college. Well, Tara, what's interesting to me is in the UK, we're seeing very high-profile people dropping like dominoes as a consequence of these files. Now, Lord Mandelson is finished. He's had the whip from the Labour Party removed last night. He's likely to lose his place in the House of Lords, and so he should.

22:37Piers Morgan:He might well face criminal prosecution for corruption in public office, given the stories about the money that was coming from Epstein in what appears to have been a trade for top secret information about forthcoming policy business initiatives by the UK government when Mandelson was in the government. So there's a lot of stuff going on with him, but he's finished. You know, the former Prince Andrew, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, he's finished. And it's a question really for him that the British Prime Minister now says he should put himself in front of the investigative authorities under oath and say what he actually knows.

23:15Piers Morgan:I think most British people agree with that. So you're seeing a lot of very famous people being dragged down by this in the UK. We're not seeing the same thing happen in the US. We're seeing a lot of names, but we're not seeing any consequence so far. Do you think we're going to?

23:33Brett Ratner:No, I don't. Because I think at this point, we haven't seen, we still haven't even seen 3 million of the files, of the 6 million. And they could be withholding them for national interest purposes, which means that there will continue to be gaping holes in the various theories that everyone put forward about who was he working for. I've always believed that Jeffrey Epstein was conducting some sort of compromise. For who? You know, we still don't know. And I do think that the United States... Who says it in the files multiple times. Right, and I do think the United States is still protecting Prince Andrew in these files.

24:07Brett Ratner:I think he's not mentioned. His relationship with Saudi Arabia isn't mentioned very frequently. There's so many connections across the world that we all know about, people who have studied the Epstein story, that we still won't be getting in the files. And because we don't have the kind of leadership within our administration, there's no independent counsel leading this. We don't know what we don't know right now. And there are three million files being withheld. And I don't think anyone will face consequences because they haven't.

24:35Piers Morgan:Right. I suspect we will. But it's going to take more time in America. Mark, you wanted to jump in?

24:42Brett Ratner:Yeah. OK. So anyone who had anything to do with his nefarious criminal conduct should be punished. I think that's all wonderful. That's what we all want. The problem also is, you know, when we say their name is in the Epstein file that now has become associated with. So they must have then been on his plane or been to his island and then maybe participate in having sex with children. That's a real problem, too. We got the pitchforks up.

25:09Piers Morgan:Yeah.

25:09Brett Ratner:And there are people who are involved in construction projects who are simply met meeting people through him. They went on some traveling with him, but had nothing to do with going to his island. I don't like this big net being thrown out there and catching it. Let me finish. And catching anyone who had mere association with him, but had nothing to do with his abhorrent behavior. OK, Mark, can I just tell you, as someone who's covered this story and spoken to many, many, many survivors, it was impossible to be around Jeffrey Epstein and not know what he was about. There were always young girls around.

25:43Brett Ratner:He was a convicted felon and all of these high net worth people can continue to spend time with a sex. That's dangerous. Every single person who was ever around Epstein then knew knew that he was having sex with children. Is that your position? No, no, no. But Mark, hang on, hang on.

26:00Piers Morgan:Mark, Mark, every everybody post 2009 knows he's a convicted. 100 percent. We're talking before then. They can't pretend they didn't know what he was.

26:12Brett Ratner:Well, of course. No, I'm not talking about that. That's indefensible. I'm talking about people before then who were merely in some letter or reference now as part of the Epstein file. And then all of a sudden that means erroneously somehow that they were sleeping with children. Get those who did. I want those who did to be punished. But those who are merely associated with him because the guy was a big networker and a big business guy shouldn't be thrown to the wolves.

26:37Piers Morgan:What is interesting, I mean, Richard Branson... No one has thrown those people to the wolves. Hang on, Tara. Richard Branson, for example, came out with a statement that was quite interesting. He said that after some initial interaction with Epstein, he then began to have some suspicions, got his team to look into Epstein, discovered the conviction, discovered some other stuff, didn't like it, and ended all contact. Now, assuming that is right, I've known Richard a long time. I'm sure that's probably correct if he's saying that publicly. Then that is what a lot of people should have done. But what is clear is a lot of people not only didn't do that, a lot of them made statements, whether it's Andrew, whether it's Mandelson, whether it's others, where they categorically denied having anything to do with him after his conviction.

27:24Piers Morgan:And now we know they were lying. And again, it comes back to what I said earlier. They deserve this. They deserve it. My point being, if they're lying, if they're lying about the timeline, then what else are they lying about would be my obvious question. Let me just, I want to read what Elon Musk has said, just to be fair to him. He says,

28:08Piers Morgan:or done anything wrong at all. Nevertheless, extreme pain of being accused of being the opposite of who I am was worth it. The strong must protect those who cannot protect themselves, especially vulnerable children. I will gladly accept any amount of future pain to do more to protect kids and give them a chance to grow up and have happy lives." And, again, what I would say back to Elon Musk is, OK, let's take you at face value. You know, only you know so far. But this flies completely in the face of the emails we're reading, which is that years after the conviction of Epstein for paedophilia, you are very, very keen to go to this island that you now scorn.

28:46Piers Morgan:And so the public statements are not consistent with the real time correspondence that we're all seeing with our own eyes.

28:58Brett Ratner:I mean, look, to Mark's point, so far, there's nothing in the Epstein files that would criminally implicate Elon Musk. Like there isn't enough evidence to actually prosecute him for anything. But I agree with you in that in the court of public opinion, it's not a good look, as is the case with our Commerce Secretary, Howard Ludnick, who said that he had cut off all communication with Epstein in the early 2000s. And then now we're learning that he was actually communicating with Epstein in 2012. Again, that in and of itself is not enough to prosecute him of any criminality. Right. But at the same time, why are you lying to the American people?

29:37Brett Ratner:And more importantly, why were you so keen to your, you know, the word you like to use? Why are you so keen to reach out to and have communication with Epstein after he had already been convicted? And yes, got that sweetheart deal as a result of Alan Dershowitz, you know, negotiating it. Why are you still willing to talk to this guy? And by the way, one other thing I want to mention about Dershowitz in particular, because anyone who mentions Dershowitz's relationship with Epstein, as I have done in the past, gets threatened by Dershowitz with a lawsuit. And I never retract my statements because I would love nothing more than to go through that discovery process.

30:13Brett Ratner:But in the files that were just released, you know, there's a email that Norm Finkelstein sent out essentially condemning Dershowitz because Jane Doe number three said this in sworn testimony. Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz was around Epstein frequently. Dershowitz was so comfortable with the sex that was going on that he would even come and chat with Epstein while I was giving oral sex to Epstein. So my question to everyone who has Dershowitz on as if he's some sort of expert who should be taken seriously, who has an opinion that should be valued in any way, will you please stop having that disgusting man on your show?

30:50Brett Ratner:No, no, no. I agree. I won't. All right. Hold on, guys. Good to know. I had him on. I had him for 10 minutes. And I told him, point blank, you cannot rewrite history, Alan. We know way too much. You can claim you're innocent all you want, but you can't go and say, therefore, now, all of a sudden, Bill Clinton never got involved in these things. No, no. He literally said to me on air. What a disgrace. Go back and take a look at it. He's the one who got that disgusting serial rapist to sweetheart deal, and he lied about the Epstein files. He is a disgrace, and it's disgraceful to have him on your show.

31:23Brett Ratner:He went and refuted all minor sex trafficking on that. I was blown away. I said, Alan, who are you? Why are you doing this? Pierce, I was down with you and Alan once before where he claimed to know everything. He's still trying to stay in the media this way. I think he's feeling a little bit more confident. But I'm not going to not have him on, Anna. I want to continue to hold his feet to the fire, which I did. Watch the interview. And if you think I wasn't hard enough on him, I'll eat it. But I think I was. Can I just one final thought, Pierce? we're having a lot of speculation on what happened what didn't happen there's an easy it's not easy there's a very effective way to find out what really happened follow the damn money it always works find out how he made his money and what about just listening to the women who have testified what about the women who have testified why what about the survivors who have testified under oath why is their word not enough why do we have to follow the money to know what

32:21Piers Morgan:happened no one said it's not enough i actually think we need i actually think we need you know what i think it's i think we listen to the women we listen to the women we follow the the money trail and we get people under oath right with a penalty of perjury that tends to concentrate the mind right um okay look i want to pivot to the other big story of the weekend which is the arrest of don lemon um former cnn anchor actually took over my office when i left cnn so i've known don a long time. You know, I thought about this quite long and hard. Let's take a look at, first of all, a bit of the scene that created the environment for his arrest.

32:59Piers Morgan:This is the original incident.

33:02Brett Ratner:This is a juxtaposition. This shows you just how divided America is. When you look at the protesters here and then you look at the people there are praying. And you know what is interesting thing? If these two groups could just get together, they might figure out what to do. Instead, I don't know if the people here are interested in talking to the protesters, but perhaps they should come in, pray together, and talk together. Last night, the DOJ sent a team of federal agents to arrest me in the middle of the night for something that I've been doing for the last 30 years, and that is covering the news.

33:37Brett Ratner:The First Amendment of the Constitution protects that work for me and for countless of other journalists who do what I do. I stand with all of them and I will not be silenced. I look forward to my day in court. Thank you all.

33:56Piers Morgan:So let me start with Mark Eiglash again from a legal perspective here. So, you know, I thought about this long and hard, heard all the different arguments, everyone coming out, a lot of them from partisan traps to very quickly either exonerate or convict him. And I kind of reached the conclusion, as I do with most situations involving journalists in this situation, which is you shouldn't be criminalising journalists doing their job. You may not like Don Lemon. You may not like the way he behaved that day. You may not like the way he's behaved since. But to go after a journalist who was clearly there reporting on what was happening, I think crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed whether you're on the left or the right.

34:41Piers Morgan:And it seemed to me a bit of tit for tat for what happened to some people who were kind of citizen journalists on January the 6th who got put in prison. This is revenge. They're going after now people on the left for doing similar things and so on. I think it's a very slippery slope. But Mark, from a pure legal perspective, did Don Lemon, in your estimation, break the law? No, he didn't.

35:03Brett Ratner:It's not even close. And I don't do politics. I do just legal. And the First Amendment gives wide latitude for journalists to do exactly what he did, cover an event. So those who say that he did interfere with people's ability to worship, there's a difference between incidental interference and intentional interference. One needs intentional interference to be found guilty of a criminal act. He wasn't there, it appears, from the fact. Ongoing service. That's not intentional? Hold on. I was just speaking. I wasn't through with my thoughts. He intentionally was there to gather facts, but his intention falls way short factually of intending to be there to interfere with people's ability to worship.

35:54Brett Ratner:So, again, if there's just incidental interference, that's not enough. And clearly the chilling effect is there, too. The message goes out that anyone who's merely present at an event can be arrested. And that's real problematic. Mark, he was there to gather facts. He broke into an ongoing church service. He busted in. That's not an accidental, oh, I didn't mean to break up your story. What facts was Don Lemon looking for, Mark? What facts was he looking for? He was looking to create a scene, to get the cameras rolling, to get his own face on the evening news, which he did. And I said, the minute it happened, they just propped up Don Lemon, Not because they like his journalism, because they need him as a useful idiot to their push to open immigration at all costs.

36:49Brett Ratner:And by the way, Mark, I would argue with you that I think protecting people's right to worship is right up there, if not superseding the First Amendment with the right for journalists to cover a story. We don't disagree on that. The question is, again, and maybe, again, everything is fact sensitive. was he covering this as a journalist was he reporting this on live stream which i was told if he was the question is do they have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that his purpose was to interfere with people's right to worship or whether he was there covering it as a journalist that may have interfered incidentally with people's right to worship and therein lies

37:32Piers Morgan:Well, let me bring in Anna here. But I think the crucial distinction for me is you can certainly construct an argument that the protesters had a pre-planned intention to disrupt people in their place of worship. Right. So the question for me was then, is Don Lemon part of the protest group or is he tangentially a journalist who knows it's going to happen, goes in and reports on what happens? but he's not actually a member of the protest group doing the intervention. And that's where, for me, I felt from a legal perspective, I think it's hard to prove that he is not one removed from this. He's not actually doing the intervening.

38:15Piers Morgan:He's gone in and he's watching and he's observing and he's reporting.

38:22Brett Ratner:Yeah, I mean, look, first let me just say I really appreciate your analysis on this, Mark, especially from a legal perspective. And I agree with you overall, Pierce. I think that, you know, the evidence that we've seen so far indicates that Don Lemon got a tip that this protest was going to happen. He wanted to cover it. Now, of course, he does have his own biases. There's no question about that. But the real question is, was he there to participate in said demonstration or was he there to document it? And obviously this is going to play out in court. But the point that I agree with you most on is in regard to how counterproductive it was to arrest him in the first place.

39:02Brett Ratner:Let me first note, though, that there was a second independent journalist who was also arrested as a result of covering what happened during this protest. I think that sets a really, really bad precedent when it comes to journalism, regardless of what you think about Don Lemon or the independent journalist. You should be able to have journalists there to document what's going on. That is their job. But in regard to, you know...

39:24Piers Morgan:And Tara, it seems to me, Tara, that all that's happened out of this is Don Lemon has got absolutely what he's been dreaming of ever since he got turfed out of CNN and started his own business, is he's now a martyr. You know, I watched it with the Clive Davis. We've got a clip, I think, of him getting a standing ovation from the star-studded crowd at the pre-Grammys party that Clive Davis has every year. Let's take a look. Don Lemon.

40:11Piers Morgan:I mean, Don Lemon's had a long dream. He's had a dream to be at the Grammys or Grammy parties and that happens. He's the Martin Luther game of the Grammys. Listen, like, this is part of the job of being a journalist.

40:28Brett Ratner:Like, it's one of the first things you do. You cover movements, you cover protests, you go where things happen. If you had to go into a cave to interview the Taliban, should I be, you know, arrested because I'm in there with the Taliban if I witness violence there? I'm not a co-conspirator. Eric, if you know anything about journalism, you would know that being present at an event does not mean you are, as a journalist, documenting it. does not make you protesting tara they weren't protesting they were trying to worship by the way and if and if if you're gonna hide behind that cloak of journalism a journalist can break into anywhere they want trespass and because under the guise of i'm doing a story that's insanity there has to be a line drunk they broke into a ongoing church service those parishioners weren't protesting anything they weren't supporting ice did the pastor happen to have some sort of connection Who cares?

41:21Brett Ratner:So under your theory, I, as a journalist, I have a White House hard pass. I'm a journalist to cover Trump. I can go anywhere I want with that. I can break into a mosque and find out how many Muslims there are illegal just because I have that pass? Of course not. I mean, if you were following law enforcement or you were following in a news event, I don't know the exact legality, but I know under the First Amendment, there are many, we are covered under the First Amendment. And the second you create these lines, like, what about these right-wing influencer journalists, whatever you want to call them, that follow break-ins into Planned Parenthoods?

42:00Brett Ratner:Should they not be allowed to do that? They should be allowed to cover those? They don't break in, Tara. They get arrested outside the Planned Parenthood. Let me offer some guidance. Let me offer some guidance. Let me wait on Eric's analogy real quick. Okay, just real quick, real quick. Like, Eric, like, let's say you are covering some sort of protest where a group of people break into a mosque as people are worshiping. You're there documenting it as a reporter, right? I would be livid if, let's say, the Biden administration's DOJ decided to arrest you. Because at the end of the day, you work in media.

42:32Brett Ratner:You're documenting what's happening. Now, the individuals who took part in the actual demonstration did break a law. They did violate the right to practice your faith, to worship, and they should face consequences for that. I mean, that's what you signed up. Let me offer some guidance, guys. Under Pierce's definition of what happened or question about what happened, Don Lemon wasn't there to cover it. Don Lemon was the leader of that, whatever that breaking was. No, he wasn't. He was covering it on the market. No, he wasn't. Let me jump in here. Let me bring Mark in.

43:04Piers Morgan:He was supportive of Mark. Let me bring Mark in again. Let me bring Mark in. Let me bring Mark in.

43:09Brett Ratner:Let's change the facts. Let's say that Lemon, while he was there, chanted. He directed the protesters. He blocked aisles. He starts doing that. Then he is participating. It's very different. Absent those facts, he's there covering. And I agree with Pierce on this one. Again, you don't want to have that chilling effect when you have journalists going in to cover something and you get the wrong politics and then people get arrested that's a real slippery slope and a real dangerous scenario yeah i would say you guys are opening up a very dangerous can can of worms allowing or or covering for journalists and tara points out that yeah there are right-wing little influencers who are dying for the same opportunity that don lemon just presented himself with to become, you know, some sort of hero to your side.

44:02Brett Ratner:And if it entails joining protests or quote unquote covering protests, but you're right there with them and also getting cameras in the face of the people that they're protesting against, you know, you borderline. I mean, Tucker's always going to Planned Parenthood. Anarchy journalism. And he's, yeah, they do that all the time. They're just not being arrested, but they literally do it all the time. Who do you think's covering the Planned Parenthood protests? again the differences inside the church that is a go inside the Planned Parenthood which is a like a private property and they do this and they don't get arrested I don't see it as any different as well I think they're right I mean those people you know the O 'Keefe who goes inside a you know an abortion clinic and tapes I think I have a problem with that too okay well I think the one thing I

44:48Piers Morgan:would say just to conclude this is people need to be intellectually consistent right in the way they view these things. And if you start getting tribal, where it's okay for your side, but not okay for the other side, to me, you become intellectually dishonest. We saw it all with the Jimmy Kimmel saga a few months ago. We're seeing it again now. We've seen it over the ICE agents. You've got to be consistent. It doesn't matter if it's your side or not. What is your view about people that do X, Y, Z? And then you've got to be consistent each time it's done by anybody. Then I can respect you. The moment people chop and change because of their political persuasion, I lose all respect for them.

45:29Piers Morgan:But that was a great panel debate. Thank you all very much. Thanks, Pierce. Thank you.

45:34Brett Ratner:Thank you. LifeLock, how can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't. One in four taxpaying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud. What do I do? My refund, though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry, I can fix this. LifeLock fixes identity theft guaranteed and gets your money back with up to$3 million in coverage. I'm so relieved. No problem. I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud-paying American. Not anymore. Save up to 40 % your first year. Visit lifelock.com slash podcast. Terms apply.

46:06Piers Morgan:Well, finally, it's fair to say that before its release this weekend, reviews for the new Melania documentary film from mainstream press were less than glowing. A cheeseball infomercial of staggering inertia, said Variety, dispiriting, deadly and unrevealing, said the UK Guardian. Glossy, but curiously impersonal, said the New York Times. However, judging by the box office, the film has been a smash hit. Melania is officially the highest-grossing documentary of the last 10 years, and joining me now are Melania's director, Brad Retner, and producer Mark Beckham, who's also a senior advisor to the First Lady.

46:41Piers Morgan:Well, welcome to both of you.

46:44Brett Ratner:Welcome. Thanks for having us, Peter. It's been a long time.

46:48Piers Morgan:It's been a long time. It certainly has. I've got to say, I watched the movie. I enjoyed the movie. I'm not an impartial viewer of the movie. I've known the First Lady 20 years since I first did Celebrity Apprentice and spent a lot of time around the Trumps. I've seen her many times over the years. I've always liked her. I think she has, in private, she's very warm. She's funny. She's smart. She's, I think, very self-aware. and I think in public she's been remarkably, I think, skilled in the way she'd been a first lady amid unbelievable pressure. You know, this is somebody who's had to watch her husband get shot at, nearly assassinated, people try to put him in jail, obviously all the scandal that swells around with Trump at any given moment, all the division and contention and so on, and yet amid it all has been this very calm rock in the form of Melania, quite mysterious in many ways, if you don't know her.

47:48Piers Morgan:So I watched it and I enjoyed it. And I think that what's interesting to me is watching people review it, who clearly have an agenda against the Trumps, they're trashing it, and conversely, people who love the Trumps all saying it's the greatest movie of all time. I don't think it's either. I don't think even you would say it's the greatest movie of all time. But what's been your assessment of how this has played out?

48:12Brett Ratner:well it it it shows i think everyone that the you can't really trust the critics um you know we have something that's unprecedented we have an a cinema score i don't know how many of mine i don't think any of my movies that i've made in the past have ever had an a cinema score so um you know usually a good movie is a b plus or an a minus so it shows you the the separation between the critics and the audience, the true audience. I mean, to have, I think it's the largest spread. I think the number on Rotten Tomatoes is maybe 10%. It fluctuates between 6 % and 10 % based on new reviews coming in.

48:50Brett Ratner:And then it's got a 98 % or 99 % audience favor. So it's an interesting case study, if anything, to say the least, about how far away the critics are. You know, film criticism when I grew up was an art form. You know, even though there was a bad review on a movie, if you read it, there was always an intellectual approach to it. And you still wanted to you still were interested in seeing the movie, whether it had a good review or a bad review. And Rotten Tomatoes was kind of like the beginning of the destruction of our of the film business, in my opinion. Even though, interestingly enough, I had read somewhere that Rush Hour was the reason why Rotten Tomatoes was created.

49:33Brett Ratner:So I say that as the destruction of the film business, because now it's like if you have a if your tomatoes rotten, people aren't interested in seeing the movie. And I think this film will kind of be groundbreaking in the analysis of film critics versus audience interest. You know, Piers, if I may just jump in for a second. Just to make it simple, to put it in simple terms, the First Lady and Brett Ratner put together an enjoyable film. It's created in a very cinematic, highly rich, stylized way. Great sound, great music. And it's a story that's never been told before. And this guy right here, Brett Ratner, was able to, I think, break ground and revolutionize the concept of documentary.

50:24Brett Ratner:Never do we see the first lady sitting there with an empty warehouse behind her as a talking head. Brett was able to go ahead and tell her story, this unprecedented story of an individual moving back into the White House as first lady of the United States, covering intimate moments with her family, her career and her philanthropy in a way that's never been done before. I give this guy a ton of credit. He put it together in a way that's groundbreaking. And that's why the rankings from the consumers are so high. It's enjoyable.

50:57Piers Morgan:But it is, Mark, it's a blue-red thing, isn't it, where in the blue states they're not going to see it and they hate the Trumps and so on. In the red states they love the Trumps. They're flocking to see it. A lot of women in particular are flocking to see it. I can see why. You know, I've said to Melania before that to me, you know, she's right up there with Jackie Kennedy as one of the great fashion icons of all the First Ladies. And if you don't agree with that, either you're blind or you're just blindly partisan, because she clearly is. You've advised the First Lady, I know, for a while. The thing that struck me was interesting was it's quite a big move for her to go public like this.

51:39Piers Morgan:You know, I once said to her, you know, you remind me a bit of the Queen Mother and the Queen in the UK royal family. He always had a mantra, never complain, never explain, and rarely be heard speaking in public. And she went, I know that quote, and I like that quote, and I tried to follow that quote. Yeah, here she is, sort of peeling back the curtain and saying, okay, this is a bit more of me than I've ever shown you. That's not something you do lightly.

52:08Brett Ratner:And it's way beyond fashion. For example, Brett was able to capture an initial meeting that triggered a series of events ultimately leading to the rescue of a human life in Gaza. And I can let Brett talk to that a little bit more. But there were so many moments in this 20-day period that Brett was able to capture with the First Lady that today continue to play themselves out. The work she's doing with the United Nations General Assembly for fostering the future together. it's all it's really an interesting thing this is much more than a fashion explosion there's a lot more important action that the first lady takes and that brett captured during this time period well brett one of the moments for me that i found really poignant and it just really cut i think to

52:56Piers Morgan:the reality that your public property when you're a first lady as you are president um but you've You've also got to deal with real-life private stuff. And there's a day in the 20 days where she starts the day at the memorial for Jimmy Carter, former president, obviously. And then that evening, she's in a cathedral, a church, lighting a candle for her mother who died a year ago that day. And her and her mother were very, very close. So a very emotional day for her personally and a very big, big day for her publicly. And they're both around grief and people dying and being in places of worship.

53:38Piers Morgan:And I thought you brought that together really powerfully because it showed me that's the reality of being in public life is you've got to somehow juggle both things.

53:49Brett Ratner:Yes, she says she talks about it in the film. You know, her day job is as the first lady, but she also has to be a mother, you know, a wife. She has so many obligations. It's interesting that you say this because, you know, as the director and the film crew, we have breaks in between, right? We film and then we take breaks. But I'm there from the moment she wakes up in the morning till she goes to sleep. And on those breaks, when we're either eating or changing out equipment, she's having high level meetings in between. So her passion for her role as First Lady, I was saying to my my producer, I was saying we should have a second crew just filming the meetings that she's having in between the filming, because those are as important as the stuff that we're filming.

54:37Brett Ratner:and she's so passionate about being the First Lady in her service and that was really, to me, incredibly impressive how seriously and how passionate she is, how seriously she takes this role as First Lady, which is unprecedented, obviously, and really also the love between and the mutual respect and admiration between her and her husband. That's another thing that I was very proud of, that the film captured. Well, that's really interesting. He has the utmost respect.

55:08Piers Morgan:Yeah, I want to bring Mark in on that, because I've known the Trumps, like I said, 20 years. So from soon after they got married in the early 2000s. And everybody else has always told me she hates him, she's the ice maiden, it's a transactional thing, she doesn't want to be there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I've always said, you really don't get these two. I said, when you actually are around them together, They're very easy together. They're seemingly very happy together. There's a real, I think, mutual understanding of each other, which is often lost on the public, perhaps because a lot of the public can't view Trump through a normal lens at all.

55:50Piers Morgan:But, you know, what is your sense? You've obviously been around them as a couple. You know, my instinct is that warts and all, good, bad and ugly, they have a pretty good marriage.

56:02Brett Ratner:Piers, they've been together since the 1990s. I've been working with the first lady since before Barron was born over two decades. And I can tell you that she has a ton of respect for him. We talk about it in her bestselling book. I see it firsthand. It's her husband. They have an interesting life, right? He's a hardworking person and he's the president. So he's constantly working, constantly on the road, as is she. She's the hardest working person I have ever met. We never take a day off. It doesn't matter if it's the weekend, a holiday, late at night. So the interaction between these two people is really like any other husband and wife.

56:42Brett Ratner:Brett captures it on the film. Those moments that people are curious about, they shine, and it's all there within those 20 days. It's really very natural.

56:52Piers Morgan:Brett, I want to turn to two elephants in the room we haven't addressed. So the first one's about the movie. Amazon acquired the rights for$40 million, apparently spent as much as that, again, on marketing. The total cost is estimated around$75 million. Many say, look, this is just a vanity thing by Jeff Bezos, who owns Amazon, to curry favour with the Trump administration, and so on. What is your response to that? And could this movie actually make money, given the roaring start it's had?

57:25Brett Ratner:Well, first of all, I'll respond to the first part, which is I can tell you for sure that the president had no idea that and Mark can speak to that more. No idea that we were attempting to make a documentary. I don't know at what point did he discover it, but I know for a fact that he had no idea. She and Mark is the only two people I discuss. I was sworn to secrecy and we didn't want it to leak, obviously. And I know that he was not aware that we were even making the documentary up to the time that we got the offer from Amazon. So this is not no quid pro quo. It's completely BS. It doesn't it literally is just false.

58:08Brett Ratner:It's just not true. And what was the other question? The economic feasibility. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, that's it. That's really frustrating. I'm sorry. Well, couldn't make money because the truth is in the world today that we're living, it's all about streaming. We wanted, Melania and I decided, and it was really Melania's idea. I can't even take credit for it, but I was so happy because being a filmmaker, there's no better way to show a film, a piece of work of mine, in a theater. You know, you hear Chris Nolan and all these big filmmakers talking about, we got to have a theatrical experience. They were fighting the streaming opportunities first and said, you got to have this movie.

58:44Brett Ratner:So Melania wanted this movie to be made because I said to her, you know, I'm not a documentary filmmaker. I've never made a documentary. And she's like, that's exactly why I want you, because you make movies for the big screen. So with that in mind, knowing that Amazon had purchased MGM. And yeah, it's fantastic that we had a fantastic box office. But at the end of the day, the world is going to see the streaming globally. And we want the biggest audience to see this movie. So will it make money? I don't know how the economics within Amazon works, but I know if a lot of people around the world watch it, it will be successful.

59:20Brett Ratner:Pierce, just just to jump on the record real quickly. I remember the day that Melania and I had the conversation. Melania came up with the creative concept. I am the only one that negotiated this deal on her behalf. I never had any interaction whatsoever with Jeff Bezos. President Trump was never involved. I'm the only one that had a part in that negotiation. As far as the feasibility on the economic side, I believe that they didn't pay enough. This film is catapulted right away into a great opening weekend. It's the highest opening in documentary history over the past 14 years. And we're just catapulting now.

1:00:02Brett Ratner:It's only been available for three days worldwide. Think about the deal, Piers. They have the theatrical release, then streaming of the film. And remember, we're going to be releasing a docuseries during the summer, which Brett will unpack a richer story. And then that those two elements, the film and the docuseries, will carry through over the next three years. So to correct all of the. You know what it sounds like to me?

1:00:28Piers Morgan:It sounds like to me you guys are you guys in real time are gaming the negotiations for Melania, the sequel.

1:00:38Brett Ratner:We undersold this one. Amazon MGM took advantage of us.

1:00:45Piers Morgan:Brett, I want to just switch gears quickly to the very serious and big stories in the news, the Epstein Files. As you know, a picture came out of you with Jeffrey Epstein with two apparently young women in it. What is your response to that picture? And what is your response to the wider scandal of the Epstein Files?

1:01:07Brett Ratner:Oh, well, that particular picture, that picture in particular happened around 20 years ago, out of 2019, 20 to 21 years ago, because that is a photograph of my fiance who invited me to this event. And that's where the picture was taken. I would never been in contact with Jeffrey Epson before that photo. And I was never in contact with him after. So that's a picture of me and my fiance at some event. Wow.

1:01:36Piers Morgan:So who was the fiance, if you don't want me asking?

1:01:40Brett Ratner:You know, she doesn't want me sharing her name in the case, but that's my fiance, 100%. Was my fiance. I'm not with him. He's not engaged. It's the world's longest engagement, 20 years. 20 years ago, I was engaged to her when that photo was taken. Right.

1:01:59Piers Morgan:And your Your position is you never met Epstein before or after that picture, that night?

1:02:05Brett Ratner:No, never. Never. Never.

1:02:10Piers Morgan:What is your opinion of the Epstein file scandal? As this more and more stuff cascades out, more and more people, very high-profile people are dragged in. What is your view of this?

1:02:25Brett Ratner:I mean, it's horrible. You see, I've been somehow sucked in, you know, through an image. And so, you know, there's so many stories about so many different people. It's hard to really follow and track what's truth and what's not truth. You can see where one photograph kind of puts me, you know, there with him. And then all the stories start to spin out. So I don't really know because I didn't know him. It wasn't really my world. You know, it's not really my world. Piers, I could tell you, and I'm not sitting here as his defense attorney, I could tell you that this guy has been in the trenches making the film, promoting the film, and what's been top of mind for him has been building this number one highest opening for Melania.

1:03:07Brett Ratner:And I think that, you know, as far as that topic goes, I can understand why he might not have a bigger point of view.

1:03:15Piers Morgan:You know what? I put the question to you about the picture. You've given a pretty emphatic answer. We'll leave it there. Brett and Mark, thank you both very much. Congrats on the success of the film.

1:03:26Brett Ratner:Of course. Thank you so much. Thanks, Piers. Happy to see you healthy and out of the hospital. Thanks for having us.

1:03:34Piers Morgan:Yeah, thank you. Not as happy as I am. The president rang me, actually, a couple of days ago. We were discussing the perils of steps, little steps that can cause enormous amounts of damage if you trip on them. But anyway, it's great to talk to you both. Thank you very much.

1:03:52Brett Ratner:All right. Thank you.

1:03:56Piers Morgan:Piers Morgan, our sense, is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, you can ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

1:04:27Brett Ratner:Rinse knows that greatness takes time, but so does laundry. So Rinse will take your laundry and hand deliver it to your door expertly cleaned. And you can take the time pursuing your passions. Time once spent sorting and waiting, folding and queuing, now spent challenging and innovating and pushing your way to greatness. So pick up the Irish flute or those calligraphy pens or that daunting Beef Wellington recipe card. and leave the laundry to us. Rinse. It's time to be great.