'You're a Spokesman For TERRORISM' Netanyahu Asks For Pardon | Dave Smith vs Jonathan Conricus

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0:30Piers Morgan:Mr. President, why don't you give him a pardon? The thing that's wildest about it is the context of this coming after two years and the destruction of Gaza. For most people, Pierce, they're thinking of the tens of thousands of babies that he's murdered. You know, on a rare occasion, I think I have to agree with some of your remarks. The moment they're inside, they get shot dead. This seems like a prima facie war crime. The level of interest, scrutiny and alleged care about what happens, it is mind-boggling. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in this way, and every single time they lie through their teeth about it.

1:14Piers Morgan:An important detail in the horrific Gaza war is that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is facing trial for corruption and bribery. Many Israelis believe that he prolonged and even escalated the war, often ceding ground to the extremists who hold together his government in order to delay a trial that may end his reign for good. And it was in that context that many Americans expressed disappointment when President Trump said this a few weeks ago. Hey, I have an idea. Mr. President, why don't you give him a pardon?

1:46Piers Morgan:Give him a pardon. Well, right on cue, Netanyahu has now formally requested a pardon from Israeli President Isaac Herzog. Automatic absolution for his crimes would, he says, bring the country together in the national interest. The truth is that Israel is deeply divided over the scale of a war that's now reckoned to have killed 70 ,000 Palestinians, such as America and increasingly the MAGA base remains divided over US support for Israel. Joining me to discuss this and more, Dave Smith, hosted part of The Problem, and Jonathan Goldrickers, the retired lieutenant colonel and IDF spokesman. Welcome back to both of you to Uncensored.

2:22Piers Morgan:Dave Smith, it almost read like a parody when I saw that Benjamin Netanyahu, the current prime minister of Israel, had written to his own president requesting that he be pardoned for crimes pertaining to his alleged abuse of power, given that the very action of asking him to be pardoned was, you could say, an abuse of power. Yeah, I thought you're, I retweeted your tweet on this, which essentially just said that. And I don't know that there's much more you could add to it. I mean, it's just so indefensible and right in front of you. I guess, like, the thing that's wildest about it is the context of this coming after two years and the destruction of Gaza and support for Israel absolutely collapsing around the world.

3:08That in the wake of all of that, like for most people, Pierce, when they think of the crimes of Benjamin Netanyahu, they're thinking of the tens of thousands of babies that he's murdered. They're thinking of destroying all of Gaza, which we can only reasonably deduce that the whole goal of the thing was what they're, you know, like when you were arguing with Dave Rubin and they dismiss Ben Gavir and Smotrich as ministers or whatever. But the only thing you can deduce from this is that the plan all along was exactly what they said to make Gaza unlivable and try to drive all the Palestinians out of there.

3:40but in the wake of that the guy who's clearly at the very least has this real problem with incentives where he the war continuing is in his political interest and think about how disgusting that is but now he's going to say oh what it'll bring it'll bring unity to israel to absolve me of my crimes well that's awfully convenient now isn't it pierce jonathan comrick is surely you

4:04Piers Morgan:can't defend this, can he? Well, as you know, Piers, not a spokesperson for my prime minister, and never was. I spoke on behalf of my military. And, you know, on a rare occasion, I think I have to agree with some of your remarks. And, you know, I think head of opposition in Israel, he made the point that this isn't really a pardon request because there's no admittance of guilt and there's no repentance repentance so i think it's mostly a political issue i try to stick in my lane you know to speak about things that i actually know a little bit about military affairs our enemies etc and i wouldn't wander too much into it and of course you have your opinions on it and and That's fine.

4:56Piers Morgan:Well, to be honest, there are opinions that would pertain to any world leader, just to be clear. I mean, to remind people of what these charges are. And, you know, he would have been on trial by now if it wasn't for the war. And as I said at the start, many people believe... Oh, he actually is on trial, it appears. He is on trial a few times a week. He's in the section of the trial, which is now counter-evidence. I meant it would have all been sorted by now if it hadn't been for the war. Likely, right? I mean, we can't say for sure, but it's likely it would have been dealt with. It was paused for a significant length of time.

5:31I think we can agree that it would have been faster. But, I mean, the proceedings are ongoing. They're interrupted every day. I understand from various notes in the courtroom that the prime minister has to leave because of events and he's tending to state affairs and he gets notes from his assistants and many of the proceedings have been cancelled. So definitely the court and the court proceedings have been delayed by the fact that the defendant is actually running a country at war.

6:04Piers Morgan:Right. But of course, there, right there is the incentive for him to carry on warmongering. I mean, he could if you're being cynical. I'm not saying that's my view. I'm saying if you're being cynical, you would say there's the incentive right there. Now, just to remind viewers of what the charges are, the first involves fraud and breach of trust. The allegation is that he and his wife, Sarah, received various goods from an Israeli Hollywood film producer, an Australian billionaire worth$200 ,000 in return for favourable economic and political treatment when Netanyahu was in government. Another fraud and breach of trust.

6:36Piers Morgan:A set of charges pertaining to a newspaper owner offering favourable coverage to Netanyahu and his family, alongside less favourable coverage for his political opponents in Israel's largest newspaper. In exchange, Netanyahu allegedly used his influence to promote legislation that would impose restrictions on rival publications and bring significant financial benefits to the paper owner in question. And then in relation to the other charges of bribery, fraud and breach of trust, Netanyahu is accused of using his powers and authorities as a public servant to promote a telecoms company, Bezek. under the alleged arrangement the owners of the telecom company exerted substantial and continuing pressure on editors of its publications to change its coverage in line with various demands made by Mr Netanyahu and members of his family.

7:18Piers Morgan:Now, I don't care if it's Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, the President of France, it could be anybody, right? It doesn't matter who the world leader is. These are serious charges of bribery, fraud and corruption which should be treated as the serious things that they are. for a world leader to be committing these kind of offences, albeit he wasn't the actual leader of the country at the time most of this went on, but he was certainly one of the power people in the country, this is an abuse of power that he's accused of. And it seems to many, including me, Jonathan, if I'm brutally honest, I'll sit at the top, that it's a further abuse of power to try and get yourself off the rap while you are the serving prime minister.

8:02Piers Morgan:And that's the problem. And I would say that whoever it was, and and I would agree and I would say that if someone wants a pardon then there's an established norm for pardon and that is to accept responsibility admit guilt and ask for forgiveness in by doing so begging for pardon that's the way I someone who is not a legal scholar and an expert understands it and that's what I read is the acceptable norm that isn't what we're seeing what we're seeing is part of a political move at a very select point of time towards the president in order to apply pressure there and eventually to get rid of something that definitely appears to be a quite burdensome nuisance for the prime minister.

8:51That's what I read into it. And yeah, as a citizen, you may call me naive, but I actually have trust in my legal system. I've seen previous sitting Israeli prime ministers be charged with corruption and sent to jail and serve time in jail. Not two weeks like in France, but actually serve more than a year and a half. A guy that you had on here, Olmert, was convicted of corruption and he was summarily sent to jail and he served jail time. We have a former president, which is a far less executive power, but nevertheless a head of state. he was charged and convicted of sexual misconduct and things of that nature.

9:33Piers Morgan:What you've never had is that you've never had a serving prime minister, right, using the fact that he's on trial for criminal charges, using the fact that he's the prime minister to get himself off the hook. And Dave Smith, to bring you back in there, he was... No, never a serving one and a very powerful one at that. Right. Well, I'm glad that you've conceded on that ground. Dave, he was the Minister of Communications when this happened, so he was a member of the government. Like I said, we discussed the abuse of power and the irony of another abuse of power to do it. How relevant or otherwise is the pressure that Donald Trump brought to bear on this, urging Isaac Herzog, the president, to fully pardon Netanyahu before this?

10:16Piers Morgan:Because you can't imagine that Netanyahu would have done this if Donald Trump hadn't preemptively said what he said. Maybe he would have, but certainly it's a pretty big deal when the president of the United States of America, the head, the commander in chief of the world empire, and of course, you know, the country that props up Israel inserts himself in their domestic politics like that. I mean, that is no small deal. So it's certainly noteworthy. I think it's all Ryan Reynolds here from it mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

10:50It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at MintMobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at MintMobile.com. Also noteworthy that in that same trip that you're talking about, Pierce, is when Donald Trump joked around about how Miriam Adelson, his biggest donor, prefers Israel to the United States of America, only to then, a week or so later, after he made the demand that Israel simply not annex the West Bank, the Knesset voted to annex the West Bank while J.D.

11:36Vance was in Israel. So I don't know. I mean, I actually love, Pierce, that at this point when we do these panels, the first question that you ask the pro-Israel guest is just, you can't defend this, right?

11:47Piers Morgan:Well, to be fair to Jonathan, I would say, the reason I like having Jonathan, but the reason I like Jonathan coming on Uncensored, I do think he's been far more intellectually honest about some of these issues than many other people on the Israeli side. He's not afraid to say when he thinks things are wrong. You may not agree with a lot of the things he defends, but he's not afraid to be critical. Many of the others are blind on both sides, by the way, can be blindly non-critical of whatever their side does. Well, let me in that spirit, Pierce, I will say and I do. I appreciate Jonathan acknowledging what he did up front there.

12:23But I would say just maybe something we all could agree on. The idea that Netanyahu is put, it's obviously very self-serving. But the idea that Netanyahu is saying, well, you have to pardon me because that's what's best for national unity. You know, that's how we move on from these divisive times. I could say as an American, I remember Barack Obama, as I'm sure you remember, Pierce, making this exact pitch about not prosecuting Bush administration officials for war crimes. There was a lot of pressure on Barack Obama from his left-wing activist base when he first got elected and took office in 2009 to prosecute some of the war crimes that had clearly happened, clearly been committed by the Bush administration, torture and lying us into war, all types of stuff.

13:02He said, no, we're not going to do that because we have to move on because that's what's best for national unity. And how has that worked out for us, Pierce? We entered into the most divisive times, certainly in my lifetime, I think undeniably in modern American history. And I would just say that if you ever want to see national unity or if you ever want to see times of political divisiveness come to an end, the only answer is to hold criminals in government accountable. That's what actually would get people to believe in the system.

13:33Piers Morgan:You know, I would ban the pardon system in America, apart from where there is a clear and egregious and provable miscarriage of justice. I would just ban it. I think the moment that you can basically pardon, if you're in office, anyone on your side who's done anything, that is, in a way, it's an endorsement of crime, right? I just don't understand why people think that is a good system. And it gets abused by the left, it gets abused by the right, it gets abused by everybody, understandably. I want to just switch, Jonathan, to this appalling video that emerged from the West Bank of Israeli security forces shooting dead two Palestinians who, it appeared from the video that's come out, come out and they pull up their shirts to show that they are not carrying weapons.

14:23Piers Morgan:They put their arms in the air to surrender. This was during an ongoing Israeli military operation in the city of Agenin. And you can quite clearly see them surrendering. Then you see the Israeli security forces pushing them or urging them to go back inside. And the moment they're inside, they get shot dead, executed. Now, just on the face of it, this seems like a prima facie war crime. If you have people surrendering like that and you then shoot them dead, that is an illegal execution, isn't it? Yeah, so if the video is unedited, which I believe that it is, and I don't have any evidence to suggest that it has been edited, and I take it at face value.

15:15And if indeed what we see in the video happened, then it is a dramatic deviation from anything that is acceptable in the IDF, in combat activity or otherwise. And what currently is going on in Israel is that this is being investigated by the highest levels. The Israeli chief of staff, the commander-in-chief of the Israeli military, General Zamir, just put out a statement after having visited the place himself. This is just a few minutes ago. It's out on Israeli media, and I'm sure you'll see it soon on international media, where he says that by initial assessment, this is a, it raises significant questions and that this needs to be investigated deeply.

16:04And if there indeed was, if this appears to be true, then there need to be consequences and there will be consequences. Now, what's going on is that there's an investigation. The troops who are involved here are actually part of the police. They're a police special counterterrorism unit that operates under the military in military operations in Judea and Samaria fighting Palestinian terrorists. The raid or the activity specifically here was many hours of hunting down terrorists that were planning attacks. And one of them had executed attacks against Israeli civilians. And they finally surrendered after they understood that they couldn't fight anymore.

16:47And then this allegedly happened. I don't like it at all. If it is indeed what happened, then I think there should be drastic measures against those involved. This type of behavior cannot be condoned. And I'll remind everybody that we've had similar but different instances in the past. in 2015 or 16, I believe it was, an Israeli soldier wrongfully shot, illegally shot, a Palestinian terrorist who had tried to attack Israeli troops. That was also caught on camera. And that soldier was investigated, stripped of his ranks and thrown into military jail. It took a while. It was a heated political debate.

17:33Piers Morgan:Again, I admire your candour about this, and I'm glad you say what you've said. But two observations I would make. One is that the IDF actual spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Nadav Shoshani, said shots have been directed toward the two men as they exited a building. Now, we can all see that is not what happened. So that's a lie. So you've got an IDF spokesperson on the record lying about... How is that a lie, Piers? Because they were not shot as they exited a building. They've been shoved back under the building by the Israeli... It's a pretty big omission. Yeah. Yeah. They came out and surrendered and then were pushed back in and then executed.

18:18Piers Morgan:They weren't shot as they exited the building. And the second thing I would say is you've got our old friend Ben Gavir, a national security minister, who gave his full backing to the officers involved, saying terrorists must die. And Dave Smith, I'll bring you in here. Right here, you've got two of the biggest problems in this whole war. One is that we only know about this because it was called on camera. And it begs the question, how many more incidents like this have been going on that we don't know about? Once again, I'll remind people, and Jonathan, I know you agree with me about this. It is outrageous that the international media remain banned from the ground in Gaza, where they could verify what's been going on there, even though we're seven weeks into a ceasefire, albeit one which has continued to have a lot of violence within it, but it is a ceasefire, and you still won't let the journalists in.

19:12Piers Morgan:I think it's outrageous that the Israeli government continues that ban. So you can't verify what's going on. But again, this only came to our light because of a video that was taken. And then you have people like Ben Gavir and Smodrich who don't give a damn. They would happily see all the Palestinians out of there. That's what their stated mission is. And the question then becomes how much of their stated mission, which everyone on the Israeli side always tries to downplay, they're not that important, they're not this, well, they're senior members of the government. And I think Netanyahu only got back into power by jumping into bed with these people.

19:47Piers Morgan:And I think he's been pushed ever more to the right in terms of his outlook on this. So you've got all this going on as the backdrop to this. What do you think about this video and what it represents? Yeah, well, that's right. I mean, I think you hit a lot of it exactly right, Pierce, which is that, right, look, it's not just that the incident happened, which is horrible enough, but then the way that IDF spokesmen and the highest ministers in the government just lie through their freaking teeth about it. Like, they've been caught so many times, Pierce, and you're absolutely right. There's a whole lot we don't know about, and I think when you won't let the media in, it reasonably leads to a presumption of guilt.

20:24The presumption is that you're trying to hide a lot of things, but just look at what we do know, Pierce, we know that there's been multiple doctors in Gaza who have reported that toddlers have been used as target practice. We know that the IDF has admitted, multiple IDF soldiers and the Israeli government has admitted that they were firing live rounds into sites where people were desperately trying to get a little bit of food. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in this way. We know about the Where's Daddy program. We know about all types of like indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians.

20:55And every single time they lie through their teeth about it. And so I'm sorry, Jonathan can phrase this as like, that's not the IDF. People should be held responsible. There's an international... Well, it seems to really often be exactly what the IDF does, and nobody ever seems to be held responsible.

21:13Piers Morgan:I mean, it's very hard, Jonathan. Jonathan, it is very hard to maintain a position that the IDF and these security forces were operating, as you say, under their command, that the IDF is the most moral army in the world when you see them literally breaching the Geneva Convention on tape. You see them executing people who have just surrendered. That is a breach of the Geneva Convention specifically set up to prevent these kind of crimes. If you owe back taxes to the IRS, they can garnish your wages and levy your bank accounts. They can even seize your retirement or take your home. Don't let the IRS target you.

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23:11Piers Morgan:Superpower tracks your progress over time, building a lifetime picture. Head to superpower.com to learn more and lock in the special$199 price while it lasts. After you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. So please make sure to mention me and support this show. Your biology decoded. Your blueprint activated with superpower. Piers, I think, you know, a moment of honesty here, if we all may. It is actually quite tremendous, you know, the level of scrutiny. of the IDF and of Israel, of prime minister, which I'm not here to defend, but I am speaking on behalf of my country in a sense. I think that, you know, the level of interest, scrutiny, and alleged focus and care about what happens, it is mind-boggling to see how much people allegedly care when it comes to dealing with issues that are related to Israel.

24:10And I think that, one, you know, there's merits to what you've been saying. And, of course, seeing a video like this, it looks horrible. And that is what I said what I said. And I believe in it. And I also believe that just like in the past, and the name of that soldier was Elor Azaria, you can check it up, what happened to him, how the IDF dealt with the issue, internal pressures, political pressures that, by the way, weren't very unsimilar to the current situation that the IDF is dealing with, with a complex political environment where everything is sensitive, where it is Israel fighting against terrorist organizations and where we have politics that are involved in fighting.

24:50But at the end of a long process and public debate, that soldier was held accountable for his deeds. And I believe that if these policemen are indeed at fault, which the video looks like they were, but we shouldn't be hasty in delivering a sentence here, then they will, too, face justice and they will face consequences. You know my other problem, though, Jonathan. Jonathan, my other problem. He's just in a sore shape. When you fight... I know what you're going to say, but... Let me just say this. Here's the problem. Yeah, but, I mean, let me say it, you know, when you look at the amount of engagement, the amount of attacks, the amount of activity that Israel is forced to do every day and every night in order to defend itself, a very small percentage of activity doesn't go exactly as it is supposed to.

25:41Hang on, I've just got your word for that. Jonathan,