In short
The episode is a debate about Pride Month and LGBTQ+ rights, framed by Michael Knowles’ claim that “social conservatives” are “obsessed” with gay people and by Lauren Southern and Andrew Wilson discussing “trad” politics and online radicalization.
Guests
Lauren Southern, an early alt-right influencer who later became a “trad wife,” then wrote This Is Not Real Life criticizing the manosphere and her own past; Andrew Wilson, host of The Crucible, who says his earlier hardline beliefs (including viral activism at 19) were “LARP” and that he later stepped away from the internet.
Key claims
Southern argues online ideology (including “trad life” and manosphere content) is performative, distorts reality, and can’t be redeemed by slogans; Wilson argues Southern lacks evidence and that “trad” is often misdefined as a 1950s lifestyle.
Notable examples
Southern’s viral “Why I’m Not a Feminist” slut-walk clip; Tate/Fuentes as manosphere/traditionalist-adjacent figures; Southern’s bans/arrests and federal scrutiny; Pride Month’s “LGBTQIA2SL/Two-Spirit” terminology dispute.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODebating LGBTQ+ Representation
0:30 to 1:24
Discussion on the representation and obsession with LGBTQ+ individuals.
“Who are the traditionalists specifically who are advocating these things?”
Introducing Lauren Southern
1:24 to 1:47
Introduction to Lauren Southern and her evolution in the media space.
“Lauren Southern was an early icon of the online alt-right movement.”
Lauren's Memoir: A Reverse Journey
1:47 to 3:00
Lauren discusses her memoir, exploring her ideological journey.
“is standing by with an alternative view.”
The Impact of Online Culture
3:00 to 4:52
Debate on the impact of online culture and personal experiences.
“So I've got Andrew Wilson from The Crucible here.”
The Illusion of Trad Life
4:52 to 8:21
Exploration of traditional values versus reality in modern life.
“Nazism became less of a historic reality and more of an abstract, movie-like aesthetic and joke.”
Andrew Wilson's Counterpoint
8:21 to 11:23
Andrew Wilson offers a counterpoint to Lauren's experiences and insights.
“We ignore the people who fail these things because we want simple solutions and ideologies that always work, but that is not real life.”
Defining Traditionalism
11:23 to 14:00
Discussion on what traditionalism means in the context of modern society.
“And you use ambiguous language and equivocation here a bit.”
Exploring Traditionalism and Modern Beliefs
14:00 to 17:46
A discussion on the perception of traditionalist values in today's society and the influence of online personalities.
“And I would agree with you that the average normal traditionalist living in the real world does not possess these beliefs.”
The Role of Masculinity and Modern Influencers
17:46 to 22:08
Debate on the impact of figures like Andrew Tate on societal views of masculinity and femininity.
“that they pump it to of predominantly young men, right?”
Personal Reflections on Ideology and Redemption
22:08 to 26:48
Lauren shares her personal journey and the challenges of reconciling traditional beliefs with modern realities.
“This is one of the more common criticisms that's out there, and it's completely false.”
Show all 20 chapters
Critique of Online Discourse and Ideological Battles
26:48 to 28:00
Criticism of the superficiality of online debates and the need for genuine conversations about personal experiences.
“I was more interested in projecting a certain ideology and getting likes and accolades than actually living that and changing my own life.”
Debate on Traditional Values and Influencers
28:00 to 30:14
Exploration of the influence of online personalities on traditional values and relationships.
“Yeah, I mean, it's a self-refuting prescription.”
Personal Beliefs and the Intersection of Faith
30:14 to 31:07
Discussion on beliefs in God, feminism, and attitudes towards Donald Trump.
“Let me ask you, Lauren, just two quick, quick, one word answers.”
The Significance of Pride Month
31:41 to 35:31
Discussion on the importance of Pride Month and representation of LGBTQ+ individuals.
“Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing.”
Debate Over the Definition of Marriage
35:31 to 36:29
A contentious debate on the nature of marriage and its implications for society.
“We always get, we social conservatives, we're always accused of being obsessed with these issues.”
Exploring the Nature of Sexuality
36:29 to 42:00
Discussion about the natural law and cultural perceptions of homosexuality.
“What are you talking about, according to nature?”
Understanding Pride Month and Its Importance
42:00 to 43:54
Explore the significance of Pride Month and its impact on the LGBTQ+ community.
“and then you all go, well, that's ridiculous.”
Debating the Nature of Pride and Sexuality
43:54 to 47:13
A heated discussion on the nature of pride, sexuality, and societal perceptions.
“I hope you would say I don't have a trace of homophobia about me.”
Personal Beliefs Around Love and Rights
47:13 to 48:34
Examining personal beliefs about love, marriage rights, and societal acceptance.
“No, I might have seen a naked lady once or twice.”
Closing Remarks and Reflections
48:34 to 51:04
Concluding thoughts on the debate and upcoming topics for discussion.
“But I agree, Pierce, because I would say I totally believe in your right to marry.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00You survived the Miami weekend, nailed the speech, and maxed out your credit card in the name of friendship. Now you've got one hangover, four pastel dresses, and zero reasons to wear them again. Sell them on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. And you at least get some of your dignity, money, back. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Depop. Where taste recognizes taste. They're LARPers, like Andrew Tate. Who? Who is the LARPers? Andrew Tate's not a traditionalist. Who are the traditionalists specifically who are advocating these things? You don't think there's anyone online that's advocating?
0:40Name them. Name them. Why do you get a month?
0:44Piers Morgan:Why gay people? Well, it's not just gay people. It's LGBTQ plus people. No, it's LGBTQIA2SL plus. We're celebrating something you have no idea what you're celebrating. I'm not celebrating! Michael is more obsessed with gay people than even I am, and I sleep with men. Do you think he's a deviant for being gay? Yeah, I'm a deviant, yeah. What I think is happening here is that you are afraid of your own posited homosexual feelings. I'd love, Piers, to celebrate your Arsenal win, and I'm very proud of the guys for celebrating pride. So any time you want to take me up the Arsenal, I'm ready.
1:24Piers Morgan:Lauren Southern was an early icon of the online alt-right movement. Her explosive views on feminism, immigration and free speech under a huge online following. She was even banned from entering Britain long before that became cool. Well, Southern famously gave it all up to become a so-called trad wife. She's now given that up too. Her new book, This Is Not Real Life, takes aim at the manosphere she helped to create. Lauren Southern joins me now. and the unrepentant Andrew Wilson, host of The Crucible, is standing by with an alternative view. See, in your memoir, This Is Not Real Life, you detail these three acts in detail.
1:59Piers Morgan:And you start the memoir by saying your journey is that of a reverse Hitler. You want to explore what happens when one wakes up from the ideological slumber. Just explain that. Sure, I'm being a bit facetious when I call it a reverse Hitler. I don't really consider myself alt-right, not at any point in my life. However, I've certainly had more hardline beliefs when I was younger. I went viral at 19. And it's very easy to be certain about the world and how people should live their lives when you haven't actually lived it. And that's a very popular formula to get lots of accolades online because people want simple solutions.
2:34They don't want to actually have to look inward. They don't want to have to go through the complicated aspects of life where things don't always have a simple A, B, C, D solution. we want to know it's either all women that are at fault for the problems with their dating life or all men that are at fault for the problems with their dating life and that if you just follow a certain code, a radical ideology, everything will go perfect. But that's not how reality works, and I certainly learned that firsthand.
3:00Piers Morgan:So I've got Andrew Wilson from The Crucible here. You're going to listen to a bit of this, Andrew, then give your view and we'll put you both together. But I just want to play a video. This is the first video that went viral, really, called Why I'm Not a Feminist. This is where you filmed yourself at a so-called feminist slot walks, mocking women who were protesting against rape. You now say you regret it, but let's take a look at the clip. Get used to it. My short skirt is happiness. I was just curious as to what her sign meant. That's all. If you want to know what my sign means, my sign means that this is not a rape culture, because rapists go to prison here.
3:40Rapists are actually hated here. Rapists are fired from their jobs Men who make rape jokes are fired from their jobs Go to Africa and you will see a real rape culture
3:50Piers Morgan:I mean, what do you feel about that when you watch it back? You know, it's not often people have their 19-year-old thoughts immortalized on the internet It's not that I was wrong about everything Of course there are men who are sexually assaulted Of course, certainly in the era of woke There were a lot of men just being demonized for no reason For making jokes I don't disagree with every opinion I had But I don't think that going to these slut walks and having debates with people who are not prepared to talk about these issues, who are clearly in some cases, you're running around naked in the street to protest something.
4:21You may not be in the best state of mind. This is not the intellectual discourse that's going to solve anything. It's clickbait. And that really was the beginning of these quick on the street, 10 second clips of catch someone in their worst moment and we'll claim this is what all women are like. We'll claim this is what all men are like. I don't think that's productive to discourse. and I think it's really destroyed the online culture.
4:41Piers Morgan:You wrote in the book, I wasn't a Nazi, though. I can't deny that the constant stream of internet messages praising me for embodying that identity created a disorienting, dreamlike state around the concept. Nazism became less of a historic reality and more of an abstract, movie-like aesthetic and joke. For sure. But that's a pretty devastating thing to admit, isn't it? That you found Nazism a joke and a kind of movie-like aesthetic, not reality, because the reality is so completely horrendous. Well, I think when you've grown up on the internet, which I did, you know, I've been on computers since I was three years old, everything becomes a bit distant.
5:22Reality is always put through this deep fry of online culture. And you see this with people who have the hammer and sickle in their bios on Twitter that are LARPing as communists. Do you think that they would fare very well in Soviet Russia? You know, half of them would probably be in the camps. This is when you're 19, when you're 20, these ideologies are, it is funny. It's used as a form of humor. It's used as a form to LARP and an aesthetic. I don't know what else to tell you. This is not the, this is not the mind, a fully developed mind that has integrated and really felt the world. All of it is too far away from me when I'm that age to take seriously.
6:01Not great. Not saying that's an awesome thing, but that is the reality of the online discourse right now and the one that I was a part of.
6:07Piers Morgan:When you were 22, you stepped away from the internet to marry and pursue a life as a trad wife, traditional housewife. And you write about this, I genuinely want to live up to the ideals I champion publicly, the moral person, the defender of family. I wanted to become that person. I clenched the belief that even if I stumbled on the path, I could still get this part right. If there was one thing I could redeem, one role I could succeed in, it had to be this. I thought that if I could just be successful at marriage, it would fix me. But that idea was a recipe for disaster from the start. And sure enough, your fears became justified.
6:47Piers Morgan:The marriage ended in a very bitter breakup. What did you learn through that period of your life? Well, first of all, I entered the conservative media space thinking that it was something that it wasn't. And I lived a life that wasn't traditional. I lived a life that wasn't preparing me for a real marriage. It was a lot of sex, drugs, and rock and roll in the conservative space. But that's something I learned along the way, is that a lot of this is performative, as well as the trad life stuff you see online. I went, and when I was married, it was not a healthy situation, but I was sitting and posting on Instagram pies that I was baking, saying I've never been happier, because that's what I wanted reality to be, and that's how I wanted other people to think about me.
7:25And I think we forget that people are doing this on a political level as well. We know everyone's editing their photos on Instagram. We know everyone's doing certain poses to look a certain way, but people are politically posing themselves to be of ideological sects, whether it be Christian, because you get a lot of money and accolades for doing that, or, you know, a communist and not living these ways. They're living in mansions. You know, if they're an activist for Greenpeace, they're flying in private jets. This is just another aspect of that that is going on in the right wing sphere is the trad life LARPing.
7:56And I did that. I was essentially not intentionally, I was lying to my audience about what reality was because that's what I wanted it to be. Because I didn't want to be a proof of concept gone wrong for the ideology I'd promoted for 10 plus years and essentially ruined my life for, got banned from countries for, arrested, questioned under the Terrorism Act. I didn't want me to be a proof of concept gone wrong. The same as detransitioners get kicked out of the left because they're proof of concept gone wrong, right? We ignore the people who fail these things because we want simple solutions and ideologies that always work, but that is not real life.
8:29Piers Morgan:You conclude the book by saying, I truly believe our minds are being sold to the highest bidder, that politics isn't the path to real change that many believe it is. Technology is being wielded to distort our perception of reality. And in the end, it doesn't matter if our digitally curated governments are red or blue, they have no souls. Andrew, let me bring you in here. I mean, be listening to what Lauren has been saying. What do you make of it? Well, there's some truth to it. And there's some things that have no truth to it at all. The first thing that I would say is I agree to some extent with what she's saying about, you know, maybe 19 year olds being political activists isn't the best idea.
9:06But for Southern, the big problem that she has, she has a credibility issue and the credibility issue is self-imposed. It's not a credibility issue due to external factors that happen to her. It's credibility issues due to the actions that she herself took. So the idea here is like, first of all, you don't actually have any evidence for the position. It's all anecdotal. There's nothing more than just kind of vibe. She's just vibing it out. It's like, where's the actual evidence for this? I have a completely different aspect of media and a completely different experience than you had. But I also wasn't doing all the drugs.
9:43I wasn't having all the sex. I wasn't doing all that shit. And so it's like that's definitely going to mesh out a totally different experience for you than it would for me. So why should we believe – I guess my position reduced is I don't think that the right pushed you out because you weren't good enough. I think that the right pushed you out because of decisions that you made which led to a credibility problem and that most of this is just code. Laura? I'm not concerned. Yeah, I'm not concerned about the right pushing me out or the left not liking me. A whole lot of people don't like me for various reasons.
10:20But I don't think this has much to do with my good or bad decisions. I've lived a very strange life. Analyzing my relationships as any sort of thing that could be imposed on the wider population just doesn't make sense at all. Most people don't have a Wikipedia page that labels them a Nazi or a white supremacist. Most people haven't been banned from a variety of countries. Right. Feds show up at their door trying to convince them to be, you know, an asset. This is not a normal life. But when I do look at the average life of people around me, they are struggling to impose trad ideals. It's something they may want, but they simply can't have the stay at home housewife when the economy is the way it is.
10:57Just let me finish, Andrew. And it's not even what most people want. Seventy five percent of men say they want a working woman in their life. Men who get married older and women who get married older tend to have more successful relationships. Higher educated families tend to be less likely to divorce. A lot of the stuff that the trad life is advocating simply does not play out in positive results born in the data or in what I'm seeing around me. Yeah, but this is really elusive, right? And you use ambiguous language and equivocation here a bit. Let's start with this. What is trad exactly? What even is it?
11:32Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question. If you look at the online world, I think it's this assumption that you have the man go to work, you have the woman stay home, she's having the children. You get married very young. You stay a virgin until marriage. You don't go to university. You kind of go into the trade. Certainly women don't get educated. There's just this idea that we go back to the 50s, which I think is just fantasy. It's fantasy. Who's advocating? Well, tell me who's advocating for these things, because that's not the advocation that I ever see. when it comes from traditionalists.
12:06What traditionalists seem to always be... Hang on, hang on. I'm sorry too. I didn't cut you off. I just let you finish. What I see advocated from traditionalists is something completely different. They're trying to epitomize a value structure, not necessarily a lifestyle structure. Not saying that moms can't go have jobs. They're saying that a wife is supposed to prioritize all of her family before herself and the husband too. it's a self-sacrificial system based on a hierarchy and mostly a church hierarchy those are the advocations of the values that i see not a go back to the nuclear family 1950s we've been past that for an awful long time so i don't actually even know like who are these people that you're referencing here specifically you know who are these specific people who are saying this this we want to go back to the 50s women aren't allowed to work right who who's saying it you know it's
13:01Piers Morgan:I'll tell you one who's saying it actually Andrew Tate now you say because he says it brazenly that that's exactly what he wants to do he wants to take women back to the 50s he wants them to stay at home not be allowed to work not be allowed to vote but Andrew Tate's not a traditionalist at all he's the opposite no but he's advocating for a return to the kind of dark ages for women where they have no right to talk maybe yeah maybe but he's not a traditionalist Southern's talking specifically about traditionalists and i'm asking her the specific question who are these traditionalists specifically who are making these advocations that a mom who has children at home can't have a part-time job but rather hey it's probably good to avoid babysitting fees things like this to have one parent who stays at home one parent who works if it's possible to prioritize their children that seems completely rational reasonable to me who's advocating this throwback to the 1950s specifically.
13:57I think that's great that you don't have these views, Andrew. And I would agree with you that the average normal traditionalist living in the real world does not possess these beliefs. That's not answering my question. I'm about to answer your question. I'm about to answer your question. As peers noted, the LARPers online, like Andrew Tate, the people who are posting Norman Rockwell photos, he's not, he's LARPing as I've been LARPing. He's not LARPing as a traditionalist either. Ten years ago, I had to make a video explaining why I wasn't married because I was getting so much pressure in my comments section saying, why aren't you married at 21 years old, Lauren?
14:33This is not a random phenomenon that I'm making up. You can go watch it. It has over a million views because there was so much curiosity in why I wasn't married at that age because I was a part of this right-wing community and not all of it's bad. You're not giving me names. But there's a lot of LARPers. I'm not giving you names. there are the names of these people specifically the name one i'm saying this is i'm saying they're larpers they're larpers like who is the lawyer andrew tate's not a traditionalist who are the traditionalists specifically who are advocating these things i think you're i think you built an entire straw man you don't think there's anyone and you're attacking anyone online that's advocating name them okay when i grew up i listened to prager university which said you shouldn't go to university you shouldn't uh you should get married younger you shouldn't bother getting educated these are all i just said prager university videos that i watched when i was younger university who dennis prager himself dennis prager himself not make an advocation to go back to 19 the 1950s ridiculous the idea that there isn't a general sentiment that you shouldn't go to university that you should get married young that women should be at home having babies on the right is just the most absurd thing i've ever seen you can look at like the red-headed libertarian and all these people saying women shouldn't vote if you watch a tim cast episode there's plenty of influencers on there saying we need to go back we need to return to tradition i can't believe you're even i've named like four people here who name one i just said red-headed libertarian when she goes on tim cast she's talking all about women shouldn't vote right red-headed libertarian may think that the 19th amendment needs to be repealed for external reasons.
16:11I don't know exactly what her reasons would be, but that would have nothing against these people either. The idea that there isn't this advocacy going on on the internet is absurd. That has nothing to do with the position that these are traditionalists who are saying we need to move back to the 1950s and wives can't work. And that's ridiculous. I've never heard this inside of any of these circles. You've never heard the argument. You've never heard the argument that, Hey, women coming into the workforce ruined society. We need to repeal the 19th. We need to get rid of these are mass oversimplifications you've never heard this on the internet you've never heard anyone make this i'm going to tell you that what you're doing is oversimplifying complex issues which people are prone to do so the oversimplification isn't that traditionalists are saying women came into the workforce and ruined it they make arguments based around the fact that wages necessarily increase if you inflate the workforce and that's true right that's just objectively a fact.
17:07And so they point this out and point out that if there's a reduction in the workforce, people have much better ways to collectively bargain. Even Democrats used to know that that was true, right? What you're doing is you're oversimplifying it by completely building a straw man around what you consider traditionalism to be, and then you attack that. But when I ask you to specifically name the people who are creating these advocations in your overly simplistic way, you can't because there aren't any. OK, that's a fair point. That's a fair point.
17:35Piers Morgan:But, Andrew, let's take the manosphere and the likes of Andrew Tate and Fuentes, all these guys, because they do have a very fixed view about a woman's place in the world, and they do have a very large audience that they pump it to of predominantly young men, right? And I think it's an incredibly unhealthy influence that they wield. And, you know, Lauren says in her book, I believe change is possible. I believe in redemption for Andrew Tate, but understanding why people do what they do and hoping for their greatest spiritual good doesn't mean they shouldn't be stopped. And the reality is you can't stop people like Andrew Tate.
18:11Piers Morgan:They don't want to be stopped unless he gets incarcerated, which he may well be. But in terms of his views, pumped out to his millions of followers, that women shouldn't have a vote, shouldn't have a job, should stay at home, all the things Lauren was saying, and let's put aside the traditional, the trad part of this and talk about a modern bastardization of trad, if you like, in the face of people like Tate. What do we do about that? As a society, what do we do about people like Andrew Tate, who I think are brazen misogynists? Yeah, I mean, the phenomenon of Tate came about specifically because there's an overcorrection to overfeminization of various things in culture.
18:56And Tate was one of the guys who came out and was like, no, all things masculine are actually good and this kind of thing. Now, I don't have any large advocation for Tate's message. I believe much of it is degenerate, and I've said so publicly. There's not a lot you can do about it, though, until you stop demonizing masculinity in every single sphere which exists, and that is actually happening. You can say, no, that's just part of some culture war thing, but it's actually not. You actually do see this in society in general terms, and I can give you examples of it. Now, as far as Fuentes is concerned, you're talking about two distinct ideologies which are coming together.
19:31The Fuentes ideology is focusing on everything from a religious Catholic lens. Within the purview of his lens, it's hierarchical. And so it's not that women have less ontological values. It's just that within the hierarchy of family, the man's going to be the Christ head and the woman who's the wife is going to be subservient to the Christ head. That's the way that it operates within his view. That's consistent with his view. Now, that's consistent with most Catholic views, in fact. Now, Lauren's right in the sense that when that's applied, it's very tough, but the church promises you that it's going to be.
20:05It's really going to be a tough thing to submit to your husband. It's really going to be a tough thing for the man to submit to the church. The church assures you that this is going to be the case. They assure you of it. So it's not like you don't know that it's your cross to bear, that this is going to be really tough. It is really tough. And I've never heard anybody BS about that, that it's, yep, it's real tough to be a Christian. It sure is.
20:27Piers Morgan:Lauren, you were brought up in a very evangelical household. So what do you feel about that? Yeah, I think in a lot of cases, young people like me who grew up evangelical tend to run from it because as soon as it's hit with the real world, a lot of our ideology falls apart since we were sheltered. We were sheltered from, oh my goodness, wait, you can lie, you can do these things. And especially when you have this kind of online performance of Christianity, when you meet these characters in real life and they don't actually live this way, it gets very confusing. And I think, you know, it's all well and good for Andrew to say, well, we just need to adhere to the church.
21:04And I agree. I think that would really help society. But most young people are not being raised religious. They're not being raised in homes that have morals and traditions. They are being raised on modern media. They're having sex before marriage. They're starting OnlyFans. They're going off the path and they don't see a way back. And I think calling them irredeemable, going on things like the whatever podcast or Fresh and Fit and calling them whores or sluts, which there's another one, Myron Gaines, one of these people promoting this very rigid belief of where women need to be in society. I don't think that's offering people a solution or a way back.
21:37You know, the problems of traditionalism are completely different now than they were 50 years ago. We have things like Tinder and Hinge now. How do we deal with that? There's way more optionality than Christians or anyone ever had in history. We need a different way to tackle this than just telling people return to tradition or go to the church because they're not going to right now. The church needs to look like something that is enticing, not something that is judging them, something that offers forgiveness, not something that offers them eternal shame. Yeah, it's funny. This is one of the more common criticisms that's out there, and it's completely false.
22:17The Christian ethicists that I'm aware of, including the ones who go on whatever podcast like me, specifically talk about the ideas of redemption, the idea to move away from the ideas of sin, to move towards things which are no longer sinful. That is the pathway back. That's the whole point of Christian ethics, is that you're not irredeemable. You're not horrible, ultimately. You are a person who can be redeemed. However, some people are ideologically captured. And when you become ideologically captured, it takes long, long amounts of conversations to convince you away from ideology because it creates cognitive dissonance.
22:52And cognitive dissonance is very painful. But Christianity does offer these redemptions. I don't know where you get the idea that it doesn't. But pointing out that a prostitute is a prostitute, I don't think is problematic. They are indeed prostitutes. Now, I think that calling women whores in the general sense is nonsensical and shouldn't be done just because you don't like how they live or whatever. And by the way, every woman online gets called a whore by somebody. It doesn't matter who it is. It doesn't matter if they're relational to Pierce or it's you or it's mine. It doesn't matter who it is.
23:27They're going to get called a whore. That's just the way that it works online. And every guy is a cuck. It doesn't matter who it is. That's how it operates, okay? I'm not saying that that's not the case, but that's just part of media, right? People who are anonymous, they suddenly get very gutsy and ballsy and say all kinds of shit they're not supposed to say. But the point here is that there is an offerance of redemption that comes through these ethical systems. I don't know why you think that there isn't. There always has been. And I don't know why you think that for some reason, the whatever podcast hosting these ideologies for long form debates, which are eight plus hours most of the time, usually with people who are psychologists, women who are very, very well-educated who go on there to represent their worldviews is somehow a negative to society when it's putting on display the very thing that you're talking about.
Read the full transcript
24:12What is the distinct ideology which is offering these very pathways? You seem to only be interested in the fact that, hey, you know, the online culture's messed up. The online culture's always been messed up. It's never not been messed up. It's always going to be messed up because culture itself is screwy. Okay. It just is ultimately. But when you talk about these ideals, I think most of this is stemming from the fact that like, look, most of the reason that you're in the situation, I read your book, at least most of it. And I watched your interview with Jeremy Boring. Most of these things, most of these things that are going on with you are because of you.
24:51People have completely radically different experiences than you had. and just pointing out that like, oh, the manosphere is a problem. Christian ethicists are a problem, things like this. But you can't even tell me specifically who. Like Andrew Tate's not a traditionalist and you know he's not a traditionalist. I don't even know why you brought him up. I agree. So who? So who are all those traditionalists? I'm saying it's people LARPing as wanting to return to tradition. It's people LARPing as wanting to save the West. This is my issue is the LARP that is going on online. Myron Gaines, we're going to fix society by taking away women's rights.
25:23I think that this is, it's akin to the people saying, you know, defund the police. Not only is this just not going to happen unless society falls apart, it's like fantasy football ideologically. And I'm not sitting here and pretending I have a perfect life by any stretch. If you read my book, you'll know most of it is an analysis of my own poor thinking and poor decision making.
25:42Piers Morgan:Laura, where have you washed up in your life? I mean, how do you feel now as a woman about your place in society? Have you found love again? Are you going to get married again? Kids? I mean, what's your... worldview now of that, for example? I'm a lot less strict in my life about how I think it's supposed to look. I'm not delusional about the fact that I'm not an easy person to be with. As Andrew has pointed out, I've made a lot of poor decisions in my life. Not all of it because of my own fault, some of it, but going viral at 19 for being on the right wing, getting slandered as a Nazi, a white supremacist, banned from countries.
26:20I can't even rent places to this day unless it's from a friend or a friend. I can't get a mortgage. I have federal agents trying to turn me into an asset. Like these are things most people can't handle. I'm actually dating a lovely conservative guy right now. So I'm healing that part of my life at the moment. We'll see where that goes. But it's not advocating that my life is the perfect model. I'm saying I made a lot of mistakes and I made a lot of mistakes because I got sucked into the internet and the performance over what reality was. I was more interested in projecting a certain ideology and getting likes and accolades than actually living that and changing my own life.
26:56And I think that's the biggest problem with stuff like the Whatever podcast, Andrew, is it's an insult to the intelligence of the audience to pretend it's anything more than clip farming to humiliate these girls for entertainment and money. If you really care about someone, you take them off camera and you talk to them about their soul. You don't ask them, do you identify as a Christian on the internet? You ask them how their journey is off camera. You don't try to clip form to humiliate them. That's a completely different thing than actually guiding people towards healthy lives.
27:24Piers Morgan:But you've also, if I may say, before you answer that, Angie, I just want to say in your book, you talk about the numerous times you allied with the far right in the UK and you conclude the British, at least the ones I encountered, had a serious problem that ran deeper than mere alcoholism. It wasn't something I observed from a distance. I felt it, lived it. The closest I've come to defining it since was when I read Trappist Monk's Thomas Merton's autobiography. He described England as a vast and complicated charade, a place where most people were already morally dead, asphyxiated by the steam of their own strong yellow tea.
28:01Piers Morgan:Sorry, Piers. Wow. Wow. You know the moral of that? Stop hanging out with the far right. Andrew, conclude things for me. Yeah, I mean, it's a self-refuting prescription. It's like, look, I'm not telling everybody that they should follow me, but there is a serious problem here that's going on that people should be following along with so that they note the serious problem. It's like it's still prescriptive. It's still you're still trying to make it a society wide basis. You never really did answer to me who these individuals are who are advocating these things and how it's not just a straw man position that you completely built up in your head so that you can attack it publicly without ever giving anybody any actually real details about specifically who these people are, what it is that they're actually advocating for, what their positions actually are.
28:50It's just one. Me, Andrew, I'm one of them. It's me. I was one of them. I went online and I told people how they should get married, how they should live their life, and I hadn't lived it. It's me, and it's the people that were around me because I listened to people on the internet. No, just you. And guess what? I got very viral and famous the same way Myron Gaines did, the same way Andrew Tate did. Because LARPing as an influencer online doesn't even— Right, but they're advocating. Do you not say we need—they say we need to return to traditional values. We need to return to the 50s. Not for them, of course.
29:22Not for them. They want to live their life how they want to live it. The two people that you just noted, neither one of them are traditionalists by their own admission, right? And they're promiscuous as hell. They have no religious foundationalism whatsoever. What the hell are you talking about? You're talking about red pillars here, not traditionalists. Yeah, and then there's trad influencers that are repeatedly coming out and saying like Bernadine Beauty, that it didn't work for them. I can give you plenty of names, Andrew, but you won't listen. What didn't work for them? The trad life, getting married, having kids, it was more complicated than they thought it was because what people put on the internet, like ballerina farms, that's someone who has a very wealthy husband, so they're able to have nine, ten kids.
30:04They're able to work on a farm all day and take videos from the internet and make breakfast cereal from scratch at 7am. Most people, men and women, both need to work. They both need to go out there. I've got to bring it to an end.
30:15Piers Morgan:Let me ask you, Lauren, just two quick, quick, one word answers. Do you still believe in God, Lauren? I do believe in God, yes. Do you consider yourself a feminist now? I don't know what that word means anymore. It means the same thing the alt-right meant in the 2010s. It tends to be a word to shut down discussion. And what about Donald Trump? Where do you stand with him? Oh, boy. Well, you know, the Trump admin let me back into America after a two-year ban, so I appreciate that. But aside from that, I'm not sure... I think the right have lost a whole lot of cultural capital in one year with the way that they've been behaving.
30:53And I think we're seeing a looting of empire going on right now in its death throes.
30:57Piers Morgan:I'd like to leave with your dealings with Tommy Robinson, who you call a significantly less competent Tony Soprano. I think that's one of the best descriptions I've heard of him. Rather better than your categorisation of my British countryman. Thank you very much indeed to both of you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Have a good day. Whatever your thing, it could be anything. Canva helps you make that thing a thing. Canva is a simple online tool thing. It's a way to design with our magic AI tool things. You can social media your thing, generate images or videos of your thing, make decks for presentations to show your thing.
31:35Piers Morgan:Whatever needs to be done for your thing, Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Well, now I want to wish you all a very happy Pride Month, for that special time again. You all look forward to it as much as I do. And then it's all over in the blink of an eye. Well, 28 days or more. 30 days, is it? Hang on. I meant exactly the complete opposite of course. It's impossible to keep track of all the celebrations and well-wishings that may interest viewers all over the world. But we do have a short selection. The New York Times has nine comic books to celebrate Pride.
32:08Piers Morgan:The London School of Economics found 14 Pride books. Darlington Cinema, up in the heartlands of the British working class, as a season of LGBTQ plus films, missing quite a few digits and numbers there and letters. Great news reaching us from a small town in Bedford, Massachusetts, where officials have approved his Pride Month banner for the fifth consecutive year. My own beloved Arsenal Football Club has taken a break from celebrating the Premier League titled to celebrate Pride. Israel is enjoying one of the biggest Pride festivals in the world at the biblical site of two very famous cities. And there's plenty, as always, for the kids.
32:40Piers Morgan:Sesame Street, Barney and Snoopy have all met this important moment 20 years ago. The gay rights charity Stonewall run a famous campaign called Some People Are Gay, Get Over It. Well, exactly. That's always been my view, and I wish we'd all stuck to it. It wouldn't be Pride Month without a visit to the Uncensored studio by comedian and commentator James Barr. And I'm glad to say this year he'll be sitting alongside Michael Knowles, who I'm sure is equally thrilled to be celebrating Pride Month. Happy Pride. Welcome back. Welcome back, James. A true spirit of tour. Exactly. Why couldn't we just say everyone can be what they want, get over it and get over it?
33:16Piers Morgan:Why a month of celebrations? I don't get an hour for being a straight guy. I make the point year in, year out to you. You get... I'm sure you do get an hour with your lovely wife to celebrate being straight. Nobody else celebrates my hour. Or maybe it's less than an hour. I don't go out and see straight flags or banners or cartoon strips. As I said before, you are a straight flag. You are the pinnacle of the straight movement. I think a lot of straight people watch you and feel that they are visible. But gay people, queer people, we don't have that representation. Really? No, Piers, we don't. We grow up...
33:49Where do you feel invisible? Everywhere, all year.
33:52Piers Morgan:You? You personally feel invisible? I've seen your stage outfits. You know you're being ridiculous, OK? Straight people are... Why do you get a month? Why gay people? What do you mean, why gay people? Why do you get a month? Well, it's not just gay people, it's LGBTQ plus people. Well, what's the exact number of... It is a month. Hang on, hang on. It is a month to... Hang on. LGBT plus... You missed out Q. It is a month to... Why did you leave out Q? You can't exclude people. Who's included? Shut up, Michael. Hang on, because it's now LGBT plus 2Q and then... Of course. Hang on, I've got it here.
34:25Piers Morgan:Listen. Do you know what it is? Do you know the exact latest one? Well, because it changes lots and it's lots of different communities to celebrate lots of different versions of it. What is the official one? But overall, it's LGBTQ plus. No, it's LGBTQIA2SL plus. Right, sure. What does any of that mean? Are you now going to test me on what that is? Because I've no idea. That's amazing. You know, two means two-spirit. That's right. I've heard that one. Yes. In my QIA, what's that about? Queer or questioning and then also intersex, asexual. Okay. And then two-spirit. Yeah, two-spirit. What's that?
34:58I think that is an American Canadian. You've no idea. I actually... You're brilliant. You've no idea. But listen...
35:05Piers Morgan:We're celebrating something you've no idea what you're celebrating. In the interest of pride, I'll tell you what it is. Oh, great. They say that Two Spirit was this ancient Native American sexual identity. But it's not actually. It was invented in 1990. How does Michael Knowles know this and you don't? I'll tell you exactly why. Every year. Because Michael is more obsessed with gay people than even I am. And I sleep with men. That's why Michael knows what this is. You know, it's so amazing. We always get, we social conservatives, we're always accused of being obsessed with these issues. Well, you are.
35:36And I say, hey, no, no, no, listen. I didn't invite myself to sit here and talk about this with you. I'll tell you how we won't talk about it anymore. I like the way things were before Pride Month. I like the way things were for years with the men go to the men's bathroom, women go to the women's, people kind of be quiet. You're happy with gay marriage? No, no, before that. I'm happy when we had real marriage. You want to go all the way back? Yeah, to like 2015. Yeah, I want to go all the way back to 2015. Yeah, to like the real meaning of marriage. So anyway, I'm totally fine with that. And then it was the social revolutionaries who wanted to change everything.
36:04And then I just object to it. and I say, hey, I don't think that's a great idea. And you say, why are you so obsessed? I say, I didn't change anything. Why is it not okay for men to marry men, women to marry women? Because it can. It's like, why can't a circle be a square? It just isn't. Well, that doesn't make any sense. That's not an answer to my question. Why do you believe that that isn't okay? Because marriage in its nature is the union between a man and a woman for the purpose of creation. According to who? According to marriage, according to what it is. According to the Bible? No, according to nature.
36:32Right. Insane. According to nature. Yeah, yeah. What are you talking about, according to nature? You've seen in nature that there are gay animals, right? Yeah, that's not marriage. They're not married. No, because marriage is what? But Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, do you accept... Because as you just quite rightly pointed out, animals don't get married naturally. But that's not natural.
36:57Piers Morgan:I'm about to say something you might agree with, so shut up a minute. Do you accept that his proclivities to having sex with other men... But it's also love. I want to make that distinction. And love, but is a natural thing. Yeah, I think that there are all sorts of kind of weird deviancies and aberrations that come out in the world. But that's not an OK word to use about... But if it's natural, why is it deviant? Well, because we mean natural in two different ways. We mean natural like things that just happen. Like, you know, animals will kill each other and eat each other, or the cannibalism is natural, I guess, in that way.
37:30And we also mean natural as man's participation in, like, the moral law, in the eternal law. So you say, well, look, maybe cannibalism is natural in a certain sense, but really it's totally contrary to the natural law. It's not good for human beings, so we shouldn't do it. And so I say marriage is a natural institution. All I'm pointing out is... But you think he's a deviant for being gay? Yeah, we're deviant, yeah, a little bit. But that's your own opinion of it. The thing is, people that are homophobic, which you are being a little bit right now, are always, always closeted gay men afraid of their own feelings.
37:59Hold on. The research says it. Wait a second. What I think is happening here is that you are afraid of your own closeted homosexual feelings. And that's why you're saying it's not natural. What's amazing? Interestingly, interestingly. That's what's happening. Interestingly, Dave. Have you been to gay conversion therapy? Hold on. I've never made it. I think we should try it because it works on me. Well, that's why I'm gay. What's so amazing about that rejoinder, which you always hear, is if you express the view of homosexuality held by Christians, religious Jews, Muslims, like perfectly oriented people.
38:28Hold on, hold on, hold on. If you just express that view, notice what the really pro-LGBT activists will always say. The very first thing they'll do to insult you is to say, well, actually, you're secretly gay. And I say, I wasn't even using it as an insult. You're the one using it as an insult. I didn't say you're secretly gay because of that. I said you're secretly gay because you're being homophobic and saying I'm a deviant. That's why I said you're secretly gay. But that is because you're afraid of gay people. And the only reason that that would be is because of that. And let me just come back to what you said about religion.
38:55Leviticus, which is a chapter in the Bible that most people are drawing on. It's a book of the Bible. A book, sorry, chapter, whatever. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but that was written by the Jewish people after the Babylonians invaded as a sort of strict moral code, right? You're impressed by how intelligent I am, sounding briefly. That is not God's word. That is the word of a strict moral code that came in after an invasion, after a war. There are so many other chapters that are ignored, other texts that are ignored. For your edification, Christians and Jews and Muslims believe that the Bible is in fact God's word.
39:28Yes, but Leviticus literally isn't God's word. But I'm just pointing out to you, you say that a Jewish scribe wrote down the book of Leviticus, therefore it's not God's word. The Christian belief is not that God, like literally a hand came out of the cloud to write the Bible. It's that God inspired the men who wrote the Bible. Okay, but why are the men that wrote that book correct and the other books that weren't included incorrect? What other books? Okay, I want you to read a book. Why are books that are not in the Bible? I would like you to read a book called The Queer Thing About Sin, which dives into this quite deeply.
39:57Can you explain the point? I'm trying to get to what the point is. I think the point is that a lot of books were written around then and only certain ones were chosen. Also, your only hand-picking certain laws. Yes, books that were not the Bible were also written at the same time. From that book. Why are you not worrying about what you eat? Let me just ask you again.
40:12Piers Morgan:Regardless of your individual views about this, okay? Why do you get a month to just go on about being gay? But why do you? It's not a month to go on about being gay. Have a day. Have a Pride Day. But why a month? We have lots of different Pride events all over the world. I think it's an important month because it shows people that we're OK. We're allowed to exist and that the world supports us. Surely you've reached a point now where this is general. No, because we haven't, because there's idiots like Michael sat here. Bless you. Listen, I'm a fan. I'm from New York. You're a fan of an idiot.
40:46I don't want to offend you.
40:47Piers Morgan:And he's here sharing a platform with a debut. I mean, I'm a little bit confused. He's happy to share a platform with a deviant. You think you're a fan of an idiot. Forgive me if I'm sitting here feeling a little bit confused. Wait, now you're confused? Does that mean that you are part of the LGBT people? Not about my sexuality, no. He's not a cute. I've never harboured any indecent thoughts towards you. I think your question is a bit... You're simplifying it slightly. And I think you know why... No, I'm genuinely confused. I get why certain days get celebrated as a day, right? Well, you have a day where the world's focus is on, OK, that day, that day.
41:21Piers Morgan:And there are many, many, many days like that. And I'm all in favour of that. That's fine. And I'd be totally fine with a pride day around the world where everyone who's LGBTQIA2SL, you don't even know what 2SL means. Just to your point, we had to check. Hang on, hang on! It's a term used by some Indigenous North American people to describe individuals whose spirits are a blend of both masculine and feminine traits. But it was invented in 1990 by a woman who said it came during a dream. So it's a true modern thing. To me, a lot of that lettering and stuff is complete nonsense. Let me just speak to my personal...
41:53Piers Morgan:And as always, when people talk about things like two-spirit or whatever, and I start to say, well, I can identify as whatever I want, and I do the old, OK, I want to be a two-spirit penguin, and then you all go, well, that's ridiculous. But here are you supporting a month celebrating a series of terminology which you don't even know what some of it means. As a gay man, I'm supporting anyone in the LGBTQ plus community. Why would you exclude the two-spirit? anyone peers you're trying to like cancel me within my own community i don't know what you're doing i think they'll be shocked they will be as shocked as i am the reason you can't describe what the two-spirit people are i think in the uk we don't have two-spirit so i'm not completely across that and i don't would you like to apologize to the two-spirit community would you like to apologize to the two-spirit community why because he supports them he's including them right great i've included them you haven't yeah what do you want what do you like to apologize can i tell you To the two-spirit community for not knowing what they mean?
42:51Piers Morgan:Yeah, sure. I apologise to the two-spirit community for not knowing what that means. But I would like to understand... Do you accept this as part of the problem? No, not at all. We're spending a month celebrating stuff, which you can't even explain what we're celebrating. You won't even let me get a word in. And the reason that I don't understand what it is is because people like you are just shouting over LGBTQ plus people... No, you wouldn't have understood it however long I gave you. You're still doing it. You're literally still shouting at me. You wouldn't have known however long I gave you.
43:16Can I tell you why I think a Pride Month is important? Yes. I think it is important because when I grew up as gay at school, I lived in Section 28, which was a law in the UK that banned teachers or anybody discussing gay people. So nobody knew what gay was. So when I was bullied for being gay, and people still get bullied all the time in the UK for being LGBTQ +, two-spirit, around the world, that is very difficult. And I think Pride Month gives TV shows, stations, conversations like this a platform to say to people... feel alone, that they are not alone. I get it. I get it.
43:49Piers Morgan:And look, it was illegal to be gay when I was born. Exactly. Right? So I'm not oblivious to... Which is why you're not gay. So it's why I don't... I hope you would say I don't have a trace of homophobia about me. I've always been completely tolerant of LGBT community. Well, you hide behind that. I lose it when you get into all the other letters, because even you don't know what they mean. But I'm not those letters, so why would I necessarily know what they mean? But you did bring in the tea. So you only care about... No, I don't only care about... You only care about certain numbers of letters for Pride Month.
44:18Do you know about every single different type of straight person all over the world? It's not me wanting a month to celebrate it. Okay, but it's not... You're oversimplifying it. You mention the T. Forget the two-spirit for a second. You mention the T. In Pride Month, are we really expected to support the T? In other words, am I obligated to believe this ludicrous notion that a man can really be a woman? Am I a hater? Am I a bigot? Am I secretly trans if I don't believe in that? I don't think that you are obligated to believe or support anything if you don't want to. Right. But I personally do.
44:48But publicly, I have to because pride is everywhere and you get a whole lot. No, you literally don't. You spend your entire career not doing that. There are flags everywhere. There are lessons in schools. There are commercials on TV.
44:57Piers Morgan:Would you mind if we had a straight day? No, I wouldn't mind at all. What if we had a straight year? You do have a straight year. But if you want to have one specific... So if I went out and had a load of flags celebrating a straight day... I'm fine with that. You know they did that in the US and no one showed up. It bombed. I think it was Washington or somewhere else. That would be quite funny. You should have gone. I didn't get invited. Maybe they thought I was gay. This is my problem with the Pride Month. One, pride is like the queen of all sins. And now the sin of all queens, some might say.
45:27But why does one have to have pride when you could just say, look, it's a crazy world. People sometimes do some aberrant things. We all like Cole Porter and Noel Coward. Why in other words? Why is what I'm doing aberrant? Sorry, abhorrent. What are you talking about? Because men, the natural end of a man. And why are you sexualizing love so much? That's why I'm saying you're in the closet because you immediately think of gay men. Sex involves love. You think of two gay men and you immediately jump to deviants, abhorrent. Really, what we're talking about is love. You decide to take it sexual. I'm not talking about sex.
46:01I think gay stuff is sexual. Am I wrong in believing gay stuff is something to do with sex? So when I think about you and your wife, do I immediately jump to that being sexual? That is a sexual relationship. Do you look at Minnie and Mickey Mouse and be like, oh, they're actually definitely having sex? If they're married, then sex is involved. So when you look at Mickey and Minnie Mouse, you think they're having sex. Well, they're mice. They're not people. I don't know their age. I don't know if they're legally married. But if you were to see them celebrating pride, you'd be offended. And you'd say, how dare they?
46:24You ask, why do I say it's deviant? I'm not saying, I'm not like, you know, I asked you why you're not offended when you see two straight cartoons, but you would be offended when you saw two straight gay cartoons. Because like marriage, straight relationships are normal and good. You are just repeating yourself. You're not answering my question. Why are you sexualizing two men in love? Who have sex. Because that's kind of what defines it. But that's not what pride is. We're not saying, oh my God, look, we're all having sex. We're all fucking each other. That's not what pride is. Well, that is how the pride parades actually do generally play out on mainstream.
46:55Pride is literally saying. Like there's like leather and weird spankings. It is. That's how it plays out. But the straight community do that as well. No, we don't have. Yes, you do. We just acknowledge we don't have parades. Oh my God, you are joking. Straight people have so many kinks. We do not have any spank parades ever. What's your porn category? What do you watch when you're watching porn? I do not watch pornography. Come on, you must. What's your category? I don't watch pornography. Really? You don't? Is this you lying on the Bible? Yeah, I don't have a Bible on me. I don't have a Bible on me.
47:18Okay, you never watch. What about when you were in college? No, I might have seen a naked lady once or twice. But I don't watch pornography. Okay, and what kind of naked lady are you into? What are your kinks? What are you doing with your wife? Well, if you're going to sexualize my community, if you're going to do that, I'm going to do it back. He goes, why do you think gay people are having to do it sex? Because I'm playing the same day. Because I'm doing this. because I'm giving it back to you. Here's why we would say it's deviant, is because man has, like, natural ends. Like, the eye is for seeing, the glass is for drinking water out of, and man has a sexual end, which is sexual congress with women, which creates babies.
47:48Okay, why do you have a G-spot? Why do you have a G-spot in your bum? I don't. Yes, you do. You actually do. That is scientifically proven. And if you go all the way back to ancient Rome, men have been having sex with men for a long time. I just want to clarify for the audience. I do not have that in saying... I'm going to say, the TikTok clips from this are going to blow up.
48:09Piers Morgan:I just want to say that. You are literally lying. You are, like, missing out on so much. I don't have a G-spot. Well, you do, and your wife and you should enjoy playing. Let me just conclude things by saying, James, I have no problem with who you have sex with. You can have sex with whoever you like. It's not about sex. Stop bringing it back to sex. Or who you love or who you want to marry. You have my blessing for all the rights that I enjoy, and I believe that firmly. On that, I totally disagree. But I agree, Pierce, because I would say I totally believe in your right to marry. I want you to have every right that I have, which is to marry a woman.
48:47Piers Morgan:By the way, by the way, when you said that, you know, maybe he's in the closet. You know, a lot of gay guys eventually go the other way. Well, you're suggesting that I'm going to marry? I think you're probably one of the least likely gay people I've met that would turn the other way. Thank you so much. You never know. I'd love, Piers, to celebrate your Arsenal win. And I'm very proud of the guys for celebrating Pride. So anytime you want to take me up the Arsenal, I'm ready.
49:19Piers Morgan:On that... On that... On that note... I can't even describe what that note was, other than a surprising note. But on that note, I will draw this debate to a close. Thank you both very much indeed. And happy Pride Month. Happy Pride. Happy Pride. Do you want a Pride hug? Hang on. Hug it out. Hug it out. Have a hug. Come on.
49:45Piers Morgan:Great stuff. Michael, good to see you. James, actually, always good to see you. And please read that book. My friend wrote it. It's amazing. The Queer Thing About Sin. It's a great book. The Queer Thing About Sin. All right, it's on my list. It's really good. I think even if you still disagree with it at the end. That and Leviticus, side by side. We're going to leave these two to have a good old cozy chat about queer things and sinning. And kinks. and come back to other stuff. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing.
50:14Piers Morgan:Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.
50:37A father's absence can have a serious effect on a child. Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school and 11 times more likely to exhibit violent behavior. I'm attorney Jeffrey Leving, and I've been protecting the rights of fathers for more than 30 years. Dads, don't lose your important relationship with your children. Call 312-356-DADS. That's 312-356-DADS for help and a free father's rights information kit. For more information, visit dadsrights.com.
From the publisher
Lauren Southern was once one of the most influential figures in the online alt-right movement. Her outspoken views on feminism, immigration and free speech earned her a massive following, while her activism and commentary made headlines around the world. After stepping away from politics to embrace a traditional family life, Southern is now reassessing the movements and ideas that helped make her famous.
In her new book, This Is Not Real Wife, Southern takes aim at the manosphere, the "trad wife" phenomenon, and the online culture she says shaped a generation of young men and women. Her critics accuse her of abandoning the movement she once championed, while her supporters argue she is exposing uncomfortable truths.
She joins Uncensored to debate christian Andrew Wilson on the issue.
Then; It's Pride Month - so it only made sense to bring Uncensored's resident LGBTQIA2S+ community member James Barr in to debate conservative political commentator Michael Knowles...
00:00 Introduction
01:16 Lauren Southern and Andrew Wilson debate begins
03:22 Lauren on protesting at a ‘Slutwalk’ when she was 19
05:41 Lauren on life as a ‘trad wife’
08:22 Andrew Wilson’s take on Lauren Southern’s beliefs
15:51 Traditionalism
17:12 The ‘Manosphere’ and the likes of Andrew Tate
20:00 Lauren on growing up in an evangelical family
21:45 Andrew Wilson on religion and the ideas of redemption
25:27 Lauren on being a woman and her place in society
27:43 Andrew Wilson’s conclusion
29:59 Piers asks Lauren “would you consider yourself a feminist?”
30:46 Piers Morgan’s monologue on Pride Month
32:00 James Barr and Michael Knowles debate begins
42:00 James Barr on the importance of Pride Month
43:33 Does James Barr know what LGBTQIA2S+ even means?
44:58 Love, s*x and deviance
48:17 Arsenal celebrating Pride
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