A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms, Drops Of God, and After The Flood. With guests Idris Elba and Jim Field Smith

26:55But now I feel, oh, okay, if it's that bad, then mine. Vindication. I'm going to check it out because it does look like the kind of thing that I would normally quite like. It looks stupid and bonkers in a possibly entertaining way. Yeah. But that's the explanation of why we have not covered it. What have you been watching, James? I've only been watching one thing this week. And I mentioned this. I hadn't watched it last week. No, steady. Although, technically, it is 2026, which means Kay imposed a one-year ban on me talking about the West Wing. A one-year ban. Okay. Which elapsed on New Year's Day.

27:29I have not mentioned it. Okay. But I can, crucially. So if I decide to do another re-watch, you have been warned. Okay. Now, that's not what I've been watching. As I said, I re-watched The Batman over Christmas because I wanted to watch The Penguin, the series, because everyone said it was great. I found The Batman a massive, tedious slog. So I then did not watch The Penguin. However, this week I have forced myself to sit down and watch it and I am extremely glad I did. Now, we didn't finish this, whereas the Empire team put us to shame because they did finish it and they even did a Penguin Spoiler Special on the Empire Spoiler Specials feed.

28:00But it's really, really good. Colin Farrell is fantastic, but Kristen Milioti is outstanding. The Arkham Asylum episode is magnificent. And this series... The words. It's like this series is a DC show, but it's not because it's kind of... Batman's not in it. It's superhero adjacent in that it happens in that world, but there are no superheroes in the show. Like, it's about crime families. It's like The Sopranos in Gotham City. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's, you know, it's fascinating. And she's such an interesting character as Sofia Falcone, like this kind of like daughter of this crime family who essentially gets sent to Arkham Asylum for 10 years because her complete psycho father thinks that she knows something she shouldn't.

28:45And, you know, obviously that's quite triggering in a kind of girl interrupted type way that this used to happen to women quite a lot for being quote-unquote hysterical and she got committed for it. Ten years in this asylum. And when you see her there, just the injustice of it all, it's quite an emotional rollercoaster that episode is. It's really, really good. And the whole thing is great. And he's, you know, the penguin, this is Oz Cobb, is obviously Colin Farrell under heaps and heaps of prosthetics. But that character is an arsehole. Like, he's awful. Like, you know, he's a double-crosser, he's dishonest, he's pushing drugs, he betrays everyone around him.

29:18but you can't help be slightly drawn to him because it's a very charismatic performance. I love Colin Farrell. I have felt no need at all to watch The Penguin and I'm not sure why except for the fact that I like I am very true to my love of Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy and I don't really I feel like that has filled my Batman-cut. There are room for other Batmans but there's no Batman in the show. There's no Batman in the show. This is a Batman-free show. So there's no Batman? No superheroes, no super villains, no super anything. That's partly why I didn't bother watching the rest of it. I watched the first two episodes, I think, when we reviewed it.

29:58And for me, almost... Because Batman isn't in it, which is just literally a Sopranos-like series. Why am I watching this gangster saga that I wasn't fully convinced had interesting enough characters? But you're right, her character is really interesting. and I keep thinking I should go back and watch it and you're also The Batman the film it's extraordinary because it's kind of like what's it like two and a half it feels like nearly three hours long nothing really happens in it for the past stretches of the time it's like nothing is going on it's a really weird film I remember quite enjoying it's back on films again I'm so sorry Kate oh god sorry sorry but watching it again I was like it kind of it's almost wants to be seven like it has this really 100 % dark completely jow I think I mean you thought the Nolan films are quite grounded and dull.

30:46Like, this is just on a whole other level. And it just gets to the point where it's just a bit much and it's a little bit dull. But the Batman 2 is coming and I am interested to see it. But maybe just, you know, lighten up a bit. A couple of dick jokes in there. It wouldn't kill you. Whoa. Okay. Just saying. Okay. Anyway, so that's what I've been watching this week. Okay. And that is the sum total of what I've been watching. Wow. What else have you been doing then? I mean, it's hard to say, actually. Yeah. I don't know. Have you taken up a hobby? Yeah. I mean, not really. What did you get for Christmas?

31:15What did I get for Christmas? Do you know what? I don't know what the answer to that question is. Oh my God, you're like all five and six-year-olds when you're like, what did you get for Christmas? They're like nothing. I don't know so many things. No, but surely when you get to our age, as it were, Christmas presents are less of a thing, right? We are not the same age. You two, we are not the same age. We are not. You two have gone into a whole different decade. I don't know that you have. I'm in a different decade to him. That's true. I mean, I'm the real elder statesman. Yeah, Boyz or Nosferatu in the cinema.

31:46True story. When it first came out. The recent one, yeah. So you can't remember what you got for Christmas? No, I do know that I got three massive Toblerones. I was about to say, did you get the Toblerones? Yeah, but like three of them. Because the thing is, I got two this year instead of one, but also I wasn't sure I was going to get one, so I bought my own. So I had, this is a very tedious Toblerone story, but I had an abundance of Toblerones. But you did previously admit that every year you buy yourself a special Christmas Toblerone. I do. Didn't you? Yeah. But that's only because my mum used to get them for me and then she started to forget.

32:16And so I was like, well, I can't be without my Toblerone so I'm buying it myself. This is the worst podcast content ever conceived. I'm so sorry. But if you want to send us some free Toblerones, if you are the company that makes Toblerone, which I assume is the Swiss airport at this stage, I'm not entirely sure, feel free to send me as much Toblerone as you like. I like the fact that we're just finding out now on the 14th of January what James got for Christmas. Well, you know, I'm just wondering what else he was doing. Maybe he got something that was taking up his time. Like, did he get a hobby?

32:41Or did he get, like, a particularly difficult Lego set? You know, some of these... Are we still saying Happy New Year? I mean, that's the topic that might occur. No, I don't think you should say Happy New Year after. Unless it's New Year's Day, I don't think you should say it. No. Like, you know, people are like, oh, no, but then the next time you see that person. No, I don't think so. No, no, you're right, yeah. Carry on. Let's move on now to the listener question. And this week's listener question comes from Neil. And Neil says, Hi, gang. with the news that Kay is stepping back from her role of the third person in the Pilot Pod Trio.

33:10I'm put in mind of Last of the Summer Wine and their tradition of replacing the third man in that show every few years. Blamire? Blamire? Blamire replaced by Foggy? This has blown my mind, by the way, because I knew that Foggy was replaced by Seymour. That I knew. But I didn't know that someone predated Foggy. Who the hell is Blamire? And am I pronouncing it correctly? Almost certainly not. Anyway, replaced by Foggy. Foggy replaced by Seymour. Seymour replaced by Truly. Didn't know that either. While the other two remain constant, of course, being Clegg and Compo. With that said, which of James and Boyd is Compo and which is Clegg?

33:45Okay, I'd just like to say again, she hasn't left, okay? She is still... We are doing a job share, okay? She's still here. I'm very sorry. Here in spirit. She's not embodying. She is here in spirit. I think... It bothers me to say this, but Boydy has big Clegg energy, which I guess leaves me with Compo, which is regrettable. I have big Clegg energy do you know it? I think you're more of a Clegg than a compo First of all I can't even believe you watched Do you know what? I still remember turning on Last of the Summer Wine one week and being devastated to find that instead of it we got First of the Summer Wine which was like a prequel series and I was furious because it wasn't as good but I remember Foggy and I remember Seymour I do not remember Truly or Blammer for God's sake The things that your memory retains Yeah it's quite It's weird isn't it?

34:31It's shocking isn't it? It's weirdly selective I think Last of the Summer 1 still holds the record for the longest running sitcom. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I'm not going to, because we don't have a PRS license, but I could even sing you the theme tune. Oh my God, that would be... I did not expect to wake up this morning and have you offering to sing the theme tune to Last of the Summer 1. How many years did it run? Take a guess. We're going to guess. 27. 26. 37 37 years fucking hell it aired for 37 years and they seemed old right at the start they really did and Compo and Clegg were in every single episode that is crazy that is wild see yeah just give me like this podcast Boydie we'd be like we started this podcast 37 years I don't know why we're from the north we're still 37 years ago I don't know what that accent was I don't know what that accent was but it was terrifying it veered all over the continent I think unfortunately but so this this put me in mind because that's That wasn't really a question.

35:33So this put me in mind of, now that Steph has essentially come in, roles in TV shows that were recast mid-show. Like people who were kind of swapped out in a kind of like... Yes, because the example that most people use would be, I think it's Lacey Goranson, who was recast as Becky in Roseanne. Becky, Becky. And she was replaced by Sarah Chalk. And then as I recall, they both came back in a kind of weird meta thing at some point later in the show. And I want to say that Lacey Goranson actually ended up being in The Conners. I seem to recall as well. I think you're right. Yeah, I think that's true.

36:04So that was the one, and I think they do make a reference to it. Like, is it like you've changed your hair or something? There's a line or something. Of course, Rosanne. You know, Rosanne isn't in the comments now. Yeah, but she's not been replaced by another Rosanne. No, no, no, I know. That's such a weird, bad show. Yeah, it is weird. But isn't the obvious example, Henry Cavill and Liam Hemsworth? That's certainly the most recent, isn't it? Yeah, Geralt of Rivia in The Witcher. That's the most high-profile one I can think of. And as you being the world's foremost expert and fan of The Witcher.

36:31And host of The Witcher Premier. Backets only. Which one do you prefer, James? Look, I do prefer Cavill. Yes. Yes. I think Liam Hemsworth brings, you know, I've talked about this before. I think he brings a different quality to it. And I think Geralt is slightly different in the most recent season as well. But Cavill has such... I mean, it's weird because I talk about Cavill's physicality, that he's an absolute unit. Like, Hemsworth is actually taller than Cavill. But Cavill is monstrously big. and I think he brings a real menace to that character so he's my preferred Geralt. Oh my God. Janet Huber for Daphne Reed, Vivian Banks on The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

37:06I remember when that first happened. That was a massive thing in my life. Aunt Viv had changed. Yes. What's happened to Aunt Viv? I remember that. Oh my God. She's done something with her hair. I remember going all the way back to, I guess, I mean it would have been reruns at the time because I wouldn't have been watching it live but in the 70s, do you remember Miss Ellie Ewing on Dallas got recast controversially So this was way, way, way back in the days. Barbara Bel Geddes played Ellie Ewing and she was recast and Donna Reed stepped in, but only temporarily, and then they cast her back again.

37:36I don't know the ins and outs of why. She might have been in. I don't know the ins and outs, but she got replaced and then subbed back in. So she returned. We're going to have a bit of a Game of Thrones spinoff. We should say Michael Hussman replaced Ed Skrein as Dario Naharis. That, I hate to say it, was an upgrade. in, I think, I want to say season two of that. Oh, I get it. And then Michael Hussman replaced after that. And also in Game of Thrones, Gregor Clegane, The Mountain. The Mountain was played by three different actors. I mean, that didn't matter, though, because he only ever had his...

38:08Well, not always, but yes, certainly early on. So early on, it was Conan Stevens played him in season one, and then Ian White, who you will remember, of course, Steph played One Wegg Wonder One, the giant later on. I've interviewed Ian White. He played him for a little bit, and then and I'm going to struggle with the pronunciation but I think it's Hal Ford Julius Bjornsson who is the mountain we know who's the big bearded like he's the main I'm going to give you 10 out of 10 for that pronoun I think you've done really well there but he's the one from obviously the famous The Mountain and the Viper episode so yeah Boydie I know what you're going to say I know what you're going to say Matt Cawthon was recast between seasons 1 and 2 of The Wheel of Time and you are absolutely right that did happen and they never fully said why I mean I was scandalised by that I'm sure you were I'm absolutely furious about the whole thing I'm definitely going to watch that Wheel of Time thing I'm going to watch one of them.

38:50It's been cancelled now, but it is great. Why? Why do you want to watch that? Because I like to try and understand something about Jane. Look at this, boy. This is an open mind. I'm making an effort to understand what is going on. What makes me the way I am. And if I can fix it. If you can fix it. I think it's too late for that. I just find it really interesting when there's other stuff that I would never touch with a barge. I know, as you know, I don't like certain kinds of things. but there's a lot of shit that James watches that he's really enthusiastic about and I just can't understand it.

39:24So I need to try and get inside his mind. Excellent. Speaking of which, Interview with the Vampire is fabulous and coming back quite soon with the Vampire Lestat. But Bailey Bass, who played Claudia in season one of Interview with the Vampire, in season two of that show, she was replaced by Delaney Hales. And again, it's one of these things where they said there were a number of issues that meant that Bailey Bass couldn't come back. I mean, part of that was presumably because she's in James Cameron's Avatar films. But she gave a very different performance. I thought Bailey Bass was fantastic, but then I think season one, Claudia, is much more childlike, where season two very much feels more like, as she is, an adult in a child's body.

40:00So actually, weirdly, the recasting kind of worked in that way. And soon, I'm going to completely agree with you, I have no doubt. I'm sure you will. But that was a good one, I thought. Watching the Batman, John Turturro's role in the Batman, he's been recast as Mark Strong in The Penguin. he obviously didn't return for the TV show oh I love Mark Strong I was about to say I'd take Mark Strong Mark Strong is fabulous in all things he really is isn't he not that I'm throwing shade at Tertura I don't feel like he gets enough credit does he he gets a lot of work he's always working never bored he's like one of those people who like constantly works but just doesn't seem to get like he doesn't get kind of big peaks and troughs in his career he's just constantly working you know what I mean yeah would you say that's fair I would say that's fair yeah but he's no I'm happy he's continually employed look you're looking at me like I'm saying something mean about Mark I love Mark Strong I'm just saying he doesn't I guess what I'm saying you're kind of implying there's something he needs to be more I think if I were to guess I wonder whether you're saying like he doesn't he doesn't get as many leading roles as maybe you think he should do so Temple he was the lead in Temple which he kind of co-executive produced with his wife so that was a project almost that they so maybe that supports your point in order to get that leading man role in that big show they had to kind of co-create it themselves.

41:17He's more of a character actor, I guess. That's true, yeah, that's fair. He plays villains very well. He's a good villain. He's a great villain. He's also one of the great bald actors, of course. He is, yes. That's true. Because you know how hard, you know how bald actors are, absolutely. It's so hard for you guys. Horrendously. Yeah, overlooked. Overlooked. Yeah. It's very, very rare. This is an absolutely serious point. It's very, very rare that a bald actor is cast in a lead role. Still, it's really, really rare. If you think about it, vanishingly rare. Do you know what? Is this genuine? Actually, let's think about this.

41:46Kojak. Well, exactly. You have to go back to the 70s and a procedural TV show. But you make a very good point because when Patrick Stewart was cast as Picard in Next Generation, he very nearly didn't get it for that very reason. Because bear in mind, he was in his 40s and basically had the traditional Picard cut. He was properly bald. And that very nearly cost him the role. Honestly, it's true. I can only apologise because I've never really thought about this. It's even more bizarre when you think how being bald now, I think now, having lived through baldness like James for much of my adult life you know having lived through baldness but it's more kind of like you're so brave it's more shall we say accepted I don't know if that's the right word I'm looking for and yet Hollywood still is not casting bald guys I don't know Jason Statham's made kind of a career out of it oh hold on yeah Jason Statham yeah he stands out The Rock now now actually what are you talking about you guys are everywhere no it's still it's not everywhere it's these are You just named two massive stars.

42:45No, I'm not saying it's never happened. The Rock has became a star before he was bald. Yeah, he definitely had hair when he became bald. But he looks better without hair. I agree with you, yeah. As do we all, Steph. Yeah, yeah. You'd look better without hair. As I do every day, I think. Shall I just get rid so I can get that lead acting role? The Sinead O 'Connor. Yeah. Nothing compares to you, Steph. I still think bald actors are good scrimmage. I guarantee you, Larry David agrees with me. He knows. Okay, all right. Whoa. just before we wrap this up a sort of subset a sort of sub-genre of this I find particularly fascinating is when they recast a role but they write out the character and replace the character at the same time so I'm thinking okay there's so many words you said there hold on again so criminal minds remember criminal minds first season of criminal minds procedural serial killers you love it stuff what do you mean vaguely what do you mean vaguely Mandy Patinkin Mandy Patinkin was the lead he found it quite heavy and it was very violent and he kind of he had some creative differences with the showrunner he left they replaced him with Joe Mantegna as a completely different character so the show then had a different lead famously they did the same thing with NYPD Blue didn't they?

43:49because David Caruso was being a bit of a diva in season one and he was like you can't do the show without me and they were like watch us Stephen Bochco fucks about not at all and Jimmy Smits came in so that was no one's bigger than the show no one is bigger than the show Ashton Kutcher replaced Charlie Sheen in Two and a Half Men oh okay oh yes of course yeah and classic example the OC remember when when Marissa leaves the OC and gets replaced oh good god with that Taylor character awful awful yeah I mean Marissa really was that show yes and Terry always used to use this example which was in Charmed do you remember Charmed yeah Shannon Doherty got fired by Charmed fired from Charmed yeah and so she got replaced by Rose McGowan who was a secret sister that apparently nobody knew about before that point yeah Rose McGowan was excellent in that though she was also just to say finally on this point soaps do all the time don't they EastEnders must have had on its own oh my god all the Sams that they've had in EastEnders and you're expected just to thank god Letitia Dean just keeps coming back and back and back as herself so she's fine there's never been another Sharon Sharon's just been the same she just keeps coming back I'm not sure she's playing herself no but you know what I mean she's always Sharon that would be meta turned out she's playing Letitia Dean plays herself yeah fascinating we should go for it but yeah the Sams there's been a lot of Sams who else has there been Ben Mitchell right I think there's been also this leads us on to another bald man though who's in a starring role obviously Phil Mitchell he's in a starring role in EastEnders EastEnders has about 30 speaking roles he's just one of them I'm going to draw a line under the EastEnders chat at this point I knew that would get you to stop the chat sorry right that's it we're done now if you would like your question read out on the Pilot TV podcast do send it in via email to me now I'm so sorry pilotTV at empiremagazine.com because I am now in charge of the post bag strings.

45:40Again, I apologise. Right, so you have officially taken on the post bag. I have. Unless you want to do it, Steph. You're very welcome to. No, I don't want to do it. But is Kay going to do it when she does it? This is unclear. She has certainly demonstrated a, shall we say, resistance to doing that. I like the fact that we're dealing with this admin live on the show. This is important. We're a family and we need to air all grievances. Air all our dirty laundry. Yeah, we don't know is the answer. People will have to wait and find out. but in the meantime do send all your messages anything you can think of for both this show and for Pilot Plus send them in to pilotTV at empiremagazine.com What if I get extra time then I can jump in your bag and have a look?

46:16Yes, that's fine. Yes. Alright. Let's have some guests shall we? Please God. Right. Please God says Boyd. Hijack returned to our screens last week on Apple TV with Idris Elba's Sam Nelson once more discovering the perils of public transportation. This time however swapping an Airbus for a Berlin U-Bahn. Boydy. you took Big Gris and showrunner Jim Fieldsmith hostage and forced them to talk to you about the show, didn't you? I did, in a glamorous London hotel room. And it was a joy. Idris had just come off. He was late arriving to the junket. Unbelievable. Yeah, but for the great reason. And I was wearing this jumper.

46:56The listeners, viewers, the jumper I'm wearing now is an Arsenal gun. Arsenal gun's logo. You find it's a cannon. Cannon, exactly. And Idris saw it and he said, oh yeah. he goes you know where I've been I said no he'd been at the Arsenal training ground interviewing Arsenal players for Sky and so what better excuse was there than to be a bit late Is he a Guna? He's a Guna he's a massive Guna huge Guna of course he's a Guna but Guna in the football sense not the other sense oh come on please don't mention the other sense but also I don't know whether I think the first chunk of the interview was basically me and him talking about Arsenal for a bit so I don't know whether that's included or whether the Apple people might have carefully We probably edited that out and started the chat after the Arsenal segments, but there is an Arsenal segment that may or may not be there.

47:39Listeners will find out. Well, we will find out now. This is Boydie, Jim Phil Smith and Big Driss possibly talking about Arsenal. Hey, Driss and Jim. Welcome to the Pilot TV podcast. How are you both doing? Good. You know, two days of talking about something that we took two years to make. Yeah, no, it's good. I don't get to see Idris very often. I see him like relentlessly for nine months and then I don't see him for like six months. so it's good to hang out that's quite weird yeah yeah it is odd I think it's fair to say on our podcast there's three of us who do it pretty much every week and the sense of anticipation for this show season two of this show is bigger than almost anything else when the episodes arrived in our Apple TV preview scene that we can watch it was so exciting do you aware of the level of excitement people have for season two of this show listen that's great to hear it is great to hear I'm not aware but yeah I'm a bit nervous about it are you yeah because, you know, it really ignited this swirl of sort of like TV's back.

48:43And oh, my God, I couldn't wait for the episodes. I mean, I was constant. I was like, wow, this is a real emotional reaction to it. And then obviously considering the sort of construct of what the show is, to do that again, which we talked about when we were deciding to go again, how do we do it? How do we do it? And so that it's better than the first, you know, it makes me nervous that we're going to deliver our baby. Why do you think it is, Boyd? Because you guys know, like, see and hear everything, basically. Well, it's that mix of, you know the phrase gourmet burger when it comes to TV? It's juicy and fun and all of that, but it's a gourmet of that.

49:22It's so brilliantly done, and it feels real because the way you made it and everything feels intensely real when it was in that aeroplane. And now it feels intentionally real in the Berlin underground as well. It's kind of how do you... And finding that tone, I guess, is interesting, isn't it? Between making it fun, relentless fun, but also making it kind of tense and talk. I think that was a really eye-opening moment for me on season one when we were on Gogglebox. I think we were on Gogglebox. It may even have been three weeks running. It gave good Gogglebox for some reason. I hadn't anticipated that.

49:55And I love Gogglebox. It's a great show. and it was celebrity gobble books, and it was like Nick Grimshaw and people like that. And I just remember seeing, and it's a privilege to get to see people reacting to something you've made. You know, when I started out, I made a big feature film for DreamWorks, one of the first things I did, and I'd done nothing at that point. I mean, I made this movie, and then I was introduced to the world of test screenings and focus groups, which I had no knowledge of, but I come from a live comedy background, so I was used to having that visceral reaction from the audience.

50:28And they said, well, this is a comedy. It's a$25 million DreamWorks movie. And here's what's going to happen, Jim. When you've got your cut, we put it in front of 1 ,000 people in a cinema in Thousand Oaks, and we film the audience. And I'm like, what? We film the audience with night vision cameras so that you can tune the jokes afterwards. I'm like, that's insane. That's insane to me. And then I made that feature film and went through the whole focus group process, and then made a second feature film. and then I came back and started really started working in TV where you just don't have in UK TV you don't have they don't do that and by the way quite rightly it's a nonsense to make art that way is preposterous but I get it so to have that experience on Gogglebox of seeing people watch the show it's the first show I've made on TV that I've had that experience of because reviews are reviews and you know people coming up to you in the street and in the industry and saying I love the show it's always hard to guess how much of that is real.

51:26Sometimes lying. Yeah, they are, I would say, often lying. And that's okay. Because I've done it myself. The way I get around it is by not watching anything. And so I can legitimately say, sorry, I haven't seen it. Anyway, just to round that off, seeing it on Gogglebox and seeing how people reacted to it, trying to not let it affect how I make the show, but also being keenly aware that like, oh, there's a real affection for this show. And then the way that people watch TV has shifted over the years but I think the thing we had with Hijack was the week to week release and it was more like a linear TV show and I had not anticipated that aspect of it, you know, I've made shows for Netflix I've made shows for the BBC, I've made shows for blah blah blah I hadn't anticipated that aspect of it, the week to week thing I think really played in our favour and it does make you think about it when you're writing and editing the show because you do think, how do I want people to hook on for next week.

52:23Having said that, I've watched all six episodes that I've been given and I'm furious I haven't got the final two yet. Well, I need to finish making them. That's my point. Oh, okay. Fair enough. There is that. There is that. Just as exec producer as well on this show, does that mean you get involved in all, I mean, do you get involved in the whole idea initially of let's plunk it in the Berlin Underground? Let's do all of that. You're intimately involved in all of that? Yeah, to some degree. I mean, it was sort of more like, you know, discussing how we come back, what are the areas that we love that we can do well that we can replicate without being the same.

52:55And yeah, I was sort of part of those really early discussions. And, you know, it was a real lovely examination of the genius of Jim and just, okay, these are the things that really work. These are the things that how, this is how we got there. And to replicate that, we have to do this. And, you know, I was just really fascinated by, you know, the process of it all. But as an EP, you know, I, as soon as that start work started to happen and, you know, writers room started to happen, I was really sort of backed off at that junction because at this junction now I'm an actor. I'm back in that space and that mode.

53:35And I said to the guys, I don't really want to read the scripts actually, because Sam in this particular season doesn't know. And it was better for me sometimes to not know what I don't know. so that helped you know sort of I trust Jim and I trusted this German and sometimes I remember I showed up and one of the characters had died I've gone what?

54:02He got and action Wow But that's the best outcome right? I was going to say but you do have to learn your lines but actually you don't say much there's not much dialogue initially it's a lot of Yeah episode one particularly he barely speaks actually in episode one which was which was deliberate choice you know but like to speak to that like Idris' power in that EP role for me is in that trust and it's him saying like I need Idris' buy-in I need Idris to be bought in creatively so that I can go off and make the show and for Idris to say okay you know here are some sort of key tenets of what I'm thinking and for me to go in and think about that and then sort of pitch it back to Idris and say here's what we're thinking and to have Idris' buy-in and then to have that trust of like, go off and make the best version of that you think you can and I'll be there and I'll have your back and we have each other's back.

54:58Basically, that's kind of how it works, right? I get the sense that you in particular like to set almost impossible tasks. Like you're telling the story in real time, you're bringing back this great character, you've got loads of extremely extras to deal with and you're in a confined space in the Berlin Underground. I mean, it doesn't get much harder than that. I mean, how do you even, where do you even start with, you know? I mean, it is a conscious decision to push myself like that. I think, I don't think you do your best work unless you're a little bit out of your depth, you know, and I think you need to be sort of learning to swim again a little bit.

55:35And I just think there's part of it that's selfish for me as a filmmaker. I want to grow. I want to try different things. I want to pull my team with me and say, come on, guys, let's push ourselves a little bit here. We'll get better results. And I'm lucky enough to work with people who have a similar mentality. And to have, you know, someone like Idris who comes along and says, I trust you and I'll swim out with you. You know, I'll stop the swimming metaphor now. But it's also there's a selfish aspect to it. But also it's about I'm trying to create the best possible circumstances for drama. to happen and often in the writer's room uh a phrase i hear a lot from people and it's understandable is you know wouldn't it be easier if or wouldn't it be better if you know like oh but if we gave if we gave um sam uh a gun he would be able to enforce blah blah and i was like yeah but it's more interesting to not give him a gun and have him have to figure out how to threaten people or how to coerce people when he doesn't have that easy thing to reach for and it's It's something we come up against time and time and again with this show is make it harder.

56:44You know, I've been taking a bit of a transition into directing and, you know, co-writing. And what I've learned is that, and I was watching Jim, is that not always the first idea is the best idea. Don't take it away, but then really strip it apart. Why is it good? What do you like about it? and the patience it takes to get through that process is something that makes great, makes great. That's what makes great. Because you might get back to the first idea, but you've just examined all the weak points of it. And that's really something that I've been really absorbing as a writer, director, if you like.

57:24And it was great. And I can't wait to finish those final episodes. I'm literally doing it as we speak. I literally, yeah, that's fine. Anyway, this is holding it up. In that case, let's finish now. Thank you so much. Cheers. Cheers, boys. Bye. Okay, that was Big Driss and Jim Phil Smith and Boyd. Time now for this week's news. And do, I mean, look, we have thrown quite a bit of shade at the Golden Globes in our time, Boydy, but shall we discuss the Golden Globes? Yes. Because there is the thing about the Golden Globes, which is that obviously they're a farrago because they're voted for by about 80 people who are Hollywood foreign press, like a niche group of people.

58:06And they're mavericks. They're mavericks, and they get to determine these huge pre-Oscars awards that people are excited about and do pay a lot of attention to, and yet really, for no good reason, because as I say, it's a tiny... Whereas the Academy, for example, who vote for the Oscars, have thousands and thousands of members, 5 ,000, 6 ,000, 7 ,000 members, similar to the BAFTA. So it's a weird thing. But they do often make really good decisions, like the fact, I'm going to single out, to start with, Ray Sehorne, friend of the pod, won Best Actress in a TV drama series for Pluribus. Very well deserved.

58:38That's a really very well deserved, what more could you want for her to be recognised when she was snubbed? Yes. Repeatedly. For medical assault. So who are these 80 people? Hollywood Foreign Reseters. Yeah, they're literally people, like reporters on TV and film who work for foreign publications. I mean, yeah. So basically from any country apart from America, but most of them are based in America. But it's fine. Oh, no, no, no. But they don't really open it out. If you think of we are. When I remember when I went on a set of Stranger Things and I was with a big gang of these Hollywood foreign press people and I remember talking to one of them about how you...

59:16You're a member of the Hollywood foreign press. We all are, effectively. Have you ever been approached by them to join... I know people who have. I have to do. Well, it's quite rare, and they're quite a closed shop, and they could open it up to thousands of people if they wanted to, but they just don't. And there was a big controversy going back a few years about... The composition of the voting body. The composition of the voting body being very white, incredibly undiverse. So they had to address all these issues, and they still make really stupid decisions in terms of the show. Yes, and what's a musical, and what's a comedy.

59:45All of that stuff. They snubbed sinners this year to talk about in the film. They have film and TV in one ceremony, like the BAFTAs used to do unbelievably and a lot of people are annoyed that Sinners got completely snubbed apart from score and they brought in a category this is classic Golden Globes they brought in a category recognising a big successful commercial mainstream film because the arty ones normally win all the other categories it's just bollocks but in the middle of all that Adolescents quite rightly won a slew a whole slew of awards including heartwarmingly Owen Cooper the youngest ever winner in his category male actor in a supporting role.

1:00:22So he's done the double because wasn't he the youngest ever winner of the Critics' Choice as well? Yes, I think so as well. Gosh. Yeah. And what was lovely is, I mean, there's loads of clips on YouTube of Nikki Glaser. I think she did a really good job. Yeah, I like her. Yeah, she's funny. But there's great shots at Owen Cooper's Instagram of him and Leo. He just went from the room. He just went from the room going... Timothy Chalamet. It's so heartwarming. You can just think of him going, I don't know if you know. I just won this. Would you mind just having a selfie with me? it's so cute it's so cute yeah it's brilliant Erin Dougherty and Stephen Graham also won and it won best limited series yeah I mean a big huge big and that show is just going to go down in history so that's why we had it as number one of Cogstown best shows of the year even though James wanted it to be The Last of Us or something no no adolescence is magnificent but it isn't Andor because nothing is Andor Andor was the show of 2025 yes it definitely wasn't can I tell you one of the big surprises I think the thing that I was surprised about is that Michelle Williams won for Dying for Sex which is one of Kay's champion night show and I famously if you're listening to this podcast didn't particularly get on with it Boyd he didn't get on with her best friend no but beer won Ricky Gervais won best stand-up comedy special as he should as he should yeah and you know they had a podcast category I thought this was classic Golden Globes and we won which was extraordinary unbelievably not snubbed but it was Amy Poehler's show Good Hang which is a really good podcast that's a great podcast I know I'm sorry don't celebrity podcasts can fuck off.

1:01:51No, you're right. No, no, no. Amy Poehler is absolutely different. It's still a celebrity podcast. No, but the thing, no, but James is kind of right because in this category, all of the nominations are celebrity podcasts. What's the point? Thousands of like true crime, you know, dramatizations and... Oh, come on. Joe Rogan gets enough. He gets enough votes from people. They don't need to have non-celebrity podcasts. But this is the other thing why it's going to be boneless because they created this new category podcast. Like, why? Why? Film and TV is enough and they cut from the broadcast the Best Original Score category.

1:02:23That's deranged. It's classic deranged globes behaviour. These people are fucking nuts. But I would say that podcast is fantastic and Amy Poehler is... I'm sure it is. It is. But equally, she doesn't need the help. No, none of the nominees need the help in that category. But The Pits, which of course I have seen in its entirety, Boydie. That one, Vesta... Has he seen it yet? Yes, he's lording over me because we both watched it on flights to and from Yes, I know. But he managed to watch the whole thing. Yes, because I had longer flights. I've got three episodes to go, but I am flying to LA soon, at the beginning of February, and I will be watching it then, I guarantee.

1:02:57It won Best Drama, and I think Noah Wiley won acting on that as well. He did. And lots of studio awards as well. Yes. Studio which won Best Comedy, and Seth Rogen won for the studio as well. I mean, these are all really good decisions. That's the thing about the Golden Globes. Which is unusual for them. Yeah, well. Right. Okay. Did you know that they're going to do a TV drama version of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. So as if we haven't had... Remember, right? So you've got the novel, the original novel, which was massive global... Steve Larsen's novels. You had the actual Swedish, is that Swedish?

1:03:28Yeah, yeah. Swedish version, the original film. With Noomi Rapace. With Noomi Rapace. Then you had the American remake with Daniel Craig, directed by David Fincher, who was on a, basically, I'm only making films about serial killers now. And made the first one and then we got the girl with the spider's web. Exactly. Yeah. Which was like with Stephen Merchant, remember, as a psychopath. And now they thought, well, we need to tell this story again. I'd welcome it. Now, the only good, well, I say the only good thing. I'm always open-minded about these things. It does seem to be the case that they're going back to the original novel.

1:03:59Right. Which is a good move. Yeah, we've seen. Any casting? No casting yet, early doors. But it is being made by Left Bank Pictures, who made, you know, The Crown, and they did The Day of the Jackal, The Big Day of the Jackal. Oh, which was great. One of the best things. And is this, do we know where it's airing? No, I mean, they're literally just announcing it as a project. So it's going to be a while away yet. They haven't announced any casting. But I think if anyone can do something different with it and make it into a huge, big event, it is Left Bank. So I'm open-minded, but equally I'm like, they really go back to that IP, which has already been done quite a few times.

1:04:31No, I think it'll be good. I'm sure it will be good Yeah, it's a millennium trilogy. Yeah, maybe they'll turn it into a new story. The irony, of course, being that I wonder when they'll set it, because it's all about a magazine journalist. And obviously, as we know, that's not really a thing anymore. But, you know. How very dare you. We are all magazine journalists here. Oh, I guarantee you'll be an online magazine. Yeah, almost so. No, no, no, no. We'll be a content creator. It'll be a content creator. Oh, don't even. It will. You'll be a TikToker. Yeah. No, just content creator now encompasses everything.

1:05:00We're all now content creators. I am aware. Yeah. I'm not that old. Just in case you did not. Can you hear me over there? Content creator. Is that what they call it now? Oh, interesting. Wow. Yeah, so that's happening. Okay. I'm here for this. I like those books. I've read them all. I've seen all the films. I'm on board. And you're happy to go back and see them told again. I am happy to see them told again. It's a great story. Yeah. It's really good. No, it is a brilliant story. You're right. You're absolutely right. Now, Steph, you said something before this podcast started, didn't you? Right.

1:05:30I said that Life on Mars was returning. You did? I read it. before I came in, right? And... Is it not true? Okay, no, no, no, no. It says, so... Did you make it up? Yeah. Life on Mars is poised to return for a third series as creators drop huge hint the anti-woke hit will be revived after the financial setbacks. The anti-woke hit. Oh, my God. I just, I can't even with that bit of marketing. Okay, and yeah, Radio Times, Life on Mars creator teases hopes for another sequel series. Teases hopes? Okay. The BBC are denying it. that's an extraordinary bit of news can I just tell you this is like this is absolutely fine because you remember months and months ago James announced on this very podcast right that line of duty was coming back and it was like months before it was ever actually announced officially well what can I tell you you know I got you get the inside scoop from me boyly yeah apparently yeah so you know it might be announced in a couple of months of time but also crucially you said third series were there so were there two series of Life on Mars and one series of Ashes to ashes.

1:06:29Right. And so this is actually Life on Mars. It's not like dust to dust. This is Life on Mars. He said, right, okay, Life on Mars co-creator Ashley Farrow has teased something is stirring. That's what they said. Is he talking about personal bodily functions? You know what? I think they should actually just push the boat out. So they've done 70s on it. I think they should call it like, take your brain to another dimension and it's actually just the 90s. Well, it needs to be another Bowie song, doesn't it? Because they're both Bowie songs. So that's it. Does it have to be? Can we not branch out?

1:06:58No, no, it hasn't. I think the Prodigy's fine. No, no, no. It could be a Bowie song. There's loads of great Bowie songs in the 90s. So I'm with you there. It could be some of the 90s. Do you know what? Genuinely, I cannot believe I haven't rebooted it yet. It's astonishing, really, because it's about fucking time. I'll read the BBC statement in full. I'm swearing so much. There are no plans for Life on Mars to return to the BBC. That's clear. Oh, to the BBC. Yes, so listen. So now people online are saying, God, this story's developing as we speak. Now they're saying it's going to return, but not to the BBC.

1:07:25Oh, right. That's what they're saying now. It's just such an obvious thing to do, to restart that, to reimagine it. In the 90s, is what I'm saying. If you can get out of space into the title, it couldn't sound much the better. It'll be like Spice Girls references. It's more likely to be Spice Girls and Prodigy, it has to be said. Yes, it is. Okay, well, there you go. So that may or may not be news, and may or may not be true, but let's just put it out there. Okay, thanks, Steph. You haven't quite grasped the concept of the news section, but it's early doors yet, it's early doors. Boy, is there any show that you randomly would just like to see come back, but may or may not be in the pipeline.

1:07:59Listen, I've read you the statement. I'm telling you news as it happens. Yeah, no, it's good. Can I give you my headline of the week? You know, it's usually Variety in their showbiz news stories. I really like this one this week, which is, a media clock is done with the fantasy genre after Game of Thrones. Harsh. Colon. No. You're unlikely to see me get on a dragon ever again. I mean... But again, that's one of those classic, we got access to a person, they said a thing, let's see if we can turn it into a news story. 100%. 100%. And also, what are the chances, if she's not going to do fantasy again, what are the chances of her doing a dragon-based show?

1:08:33It would be weird, wouldn't it? Like, she gets offered another... Oh, this is got dragons in it as well. Okay, we want to do something with dragons. Let's just call Amelia Clarke because we know she's had experience with dragons before. She's the mother of dragons. I know she's the mother, of course. She's in the new Peacock espionage series, by the way, called Ponies. Yes, there are no dragons in it. right swapping dragons for ponies yeah did you know a pony is not a baby horse it's just a small horse a baby horse is a foal yes James because I'm 44 for fuck's sake was that not a good fact James like sometimes we think it's like James meets world do you know what I mean if James was on would I lie to you it would be did you really not know that you thought that ponies were baby horses you thought ponies well no no What did you think foals were?

1:09:28I mean, a band. Right, okay. Just, okay, someone put him down. Put him down. Take me out back and shoot me. Sorry, also. Off to the glue factory. When did you learn this fact about ponies? Not recently. Like, it's just, I don't know. You should announce it now. I just feel like you two people just seemed like people who wouldn't know that. So I thought I would share it with you. Wow, that is scathing. He thought that we were the kind of people that wouldn't know that ponies were baby horses. Okay, James, that says a lot. Okay, good. Did you see that Seth Rogen confirmed that season two, the studio starts filming this week?

1:10:08And he was very funny. Because obviously, so he won at the Golden Globes, as we said, and obviously on the show they had a Golden Globes episode. And he said that it's now mixing reality and fiction is getting very confusing. He said, we've literally written some things that happened leading up to the Golden Globes into episodes we've been writing for the show. He said, so several things have happened both today and leading up to the event and they'll probably know what they're taking the piss out of when we see it in the eventual studio. So we're going to see them taking the piss out of Seth Rogen winning the award for the show that they're showing.

1:10:40It's too much. That's taking the piss out of. It's too much. There you go. How very meta. Yeah. All right, that signals the end of news, mainly because we're running out of time. So let's move on to this week's reviews. Well, we've been here for like an hour and a half. Yeah, it's been a while. Okay. Okay. First up this week, we have A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms on Sky Atlantic, and this is the second Game of Thrones spin-off after House of the Dragon, but a very different proposition indeed. This is adapted, if you don't know, from the Dunk and Egg novellas by George R. R. Martin, and this season specifically adapts the first such novella, which is called The Hedge Knight, which was published back in 1998, and it sees rugby player Peter Claffey as the newly knighted Sir Duncan the Tall and Dexter Sol Ansell as his kind of diminutive squire called Egg, and the show is adapted under the auspices of showrunner Ira Parker, who I spoke to last year.

1:11:29And it is deliberately less epic. It's sort of more humorous and altogether I would say far more scatological look at the world of Westeros. To tell us about it, please welcome to the list, Sir Boydie of House Hilton, Lord of Virgin Upper Class. This is a weird one, isn't it? I didn't know what to make of this, to be honest. Just go straight in. Okay. I guess because it is very much like not like Game of Thrones in the sense that it's not epic it's not there are as yet no dragons so there will be no dragons Emilia Clarke Emilia Clarke will be happy she could be in it because she won't have to ride a fucking dragon Sir Duncan played by Peter Claffier who is an actor his background is a rugby player but he's very tall but he's been in loads of stuff but he's very tall he is I mean he plays Sir Duncan the tall if he was like 5 foot 3 it wouldn't be great he's gigantic but he has acted a lot before just to make that clear.

1:12:21He, yeah, he's wandering around with three horses. Horses, mind. Yes, horses, not foals. No, or ponies. Or ponies. Three horses. Now, first of all, before I forget to ask this, do you think, are those three horses real? At some points I thought maybe like one of them is real and the other's a CGI. No, they're all real. Why would you not have a real horse? No, I think you, because there's a bit in it. Because the poor actor has to fucking carry. He's not carrying them. I mean, he's leading them with the reins. He's riding around with these three horses. That is a... I mean, not only one horse is enough surely as an actor to ride.

1:12:53Right. Especially when you're saving for a tour. I'm going to rein you in from that so we can... Right. Okay. Good use of rein. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll establish the three horses. Can I just ask Wes, where do you stand on Game of Thrones? Oh, I love Game of Thrones. Where do you stand on House of Dragons? I love House of Dragons. Okay. Right. Now I'm going to allow you to continue. I needed to know that before you do this. So it's very much not like those shows in the sense that it is, as James alluded to, referred to. I'm trying to avoid the phrase alluded to. As James said just now, it is pretty much a comedy.

1:13:25I mean, it's almost like at some points it's like fucking Carry On Game of Thrones. Yeah, yeah. Because the bawdy things are happening. People are getting drunk and they're, you know, shouting and screaming, dancing. The dance sequence is demented. That is demented. Right? Where in which Daniel Ings, who specializes, by the way, and I'd like to interview Daniel Ings and say, you play a series of bellends like he was a bellend in the Billy Piper thing do you remember? Yeah. You know where he played her absolutely obnoxious husband who's a complete twat he was he's in the Guy Ritchie show and he's a complete twat in that Yeah.

1:13:59So he's just and this is playing an utter gigantic bellend a bellend of bellends though I guess he could be worse because he could have like killed our hero in the first few seconds. I've only watched one. Right. It's only half an hour the first one was 45 Was it? Oh yeah, first of all, the rest of them are half an hour. The rest of them are half an hour. They're quite short episodes. I did see that. I'm a busy man. I've been fucking touring Wales all weekend. Oh, that's right, yes. Team Gavin and Stacey. So you watched one? So I watched one. I enjoyed it, don't get me wrong. I enjoyed it for what it is.

1:14:28I thought it was, you know, it is smaller scale. I like the carry-on film, so calling it carry-on Game of Thrones is not an insult, by the way. I enjoyed the comedy of it. But it is like, but then I got to the end of the first episode and I thought, I'm enjoying it, but what's the point? and then I thought well the point is well I'll quickly finish carry on I think the point really is George R.R. Martin probably was quite keen on making a TV show out of these these spin-offs from Game of the Worlds stories Game of the Worlds so they went and HBO went oh yeah Game of the Worlds sorry and HBO went oh yeah we could do that we don't mind we'll make a series of it and it's fun and it's you know but like there doesn't seem any great point to it apart from the fact that it is a fun fairly entertaining quite funny bit silly adaptation of some of George R.

1:15:16R. Martin happy? I don't know. And fans. And now I'm going to tell you why everything you've said is completely wrong. So, this is a classic case of, when we talk about how many episodes of a show you should watch, okay? Right. And this is a classic case of if you watch the first episode, you will have a completely different opinion about this series. And if you've watched like me, and I suspect James if you've watched all six episodes right I am a massive Game of Thrones fan I love Game of Thrones did I love House of Dragons not so much I thought House of Dragons was actually it's called House of the Dragons House of the Dragons you know what I mean House of Dragons you're such a huge huge I mean we were watching Game of Worlds a minute ago my point is I'm not a huge fan so I didn't I thought that was actually too almost too severe anyway I watched the first episode of this with great anticipation and after a very serious issue with my verification.

1:16:11Which we heard about in excruciating detail on the WhatsApp group. As a Game of Thrones fan, I really wanted to refill my Game of Thrones cup. So, I watched the first episode and I was like, oh no. In the opening sequence, you see him kind of openly defecating in a field. I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. What the actual fuck is this? And for me, it's a very gigantic man bumbling through the hillsides. And I was like, this is not what I want. And also, it's almost like taking the piss because there's a bit in it where they play a little bit of the Game of Thrones thing tune. And I was like, are they trying with my emotions here?

1:16:54It's a great gag. I quite like that. But for me, when I was like, where is the Game of Thrones, right? So I was like, no, no, Steph, stick with this because maybe it's one of these shows. But I thought, actually, by the end of the first episode, what I did was I'd formed a relationship with this, with the tall guy. And I was like, oh no, I quite like him. This is, there must be a reason they're doing this. We should go and track him down. Yeah, I was like, do you like him? I thought, this is a slow burn. So I have a relationship with this character. So I start to care about this character. And by the end of the first episode, I did.

1:17:23Then I started the second episode. And I was like, God, they're still in these bloody hills. He's in this camp. What is happening? His whole aim is that we're not giving anything away. The man who looked after him, who was a knight, a penny tree, he is now wanting to become a knight himself right so that's his whole thing and you and it's not till the last 10 minutes of the second episode and in the last 10 minutes of the second episode you're like right we've now gone into the game of thrones territory which i love and from that point on which is why it was up to one o 'clock last night the whole thing was absolutely exhilarating and it and it had all the magic and it had all the magic of game of thrones and it had it's still you know we were talking earlier about how marrying comedy you know and drama and i thought god this is too much comedy this i don't this is just not my bag of toys it's not what i want from a prequel um then it introduces a load more characters and some of them are deceptive and that's what you want from game of thrones and you're not really sure who people are and then they get the fight sequences which are incredible i'm not i don't think i'm giving away any spoilers um but it was exhilarating and I ended up watching all six episodes and by the end of it I was like this is perfection for me this is a six episode perfection of something that I thoroughly enjoyed it and then it made me almost you know how you get to the end of something you're like actually the first episode is okay because I could see what it was doing for me if you don't stick with it because as I understand they're doing it week by week they're releasing it by week you will be making a mistake yeah so you'll but please I'm begging of you if you love Game of Thrones and you watch the first episode and you're like, this doesn't feel Game of Thrones-y to me, stick with it because you will be rewarded at the end of it.

1:19:05Does it get less comedic then? Yes, it does. I mean, it does, but yes. There is still comedy. It's comedy all the way through. It has the essence. I'm fascinated to hear what you think, but it has the essence of Game of Thrones. You do get, like I say, it is exhilarating. There are points in it and you're, oh my God, my God. You do have that huge suspense. You are like, who's on what side? What is setting up is incredible. I hear you, but I was surprised by the lack of dramatic tension and the fact that the first episode ends with almost no great desire. Yes, I agree. Attempt even, unless you're a huge Game of Thrones-er and you're a George RR Martin fan, you've read the books and you want to see what they've done.

1:19:44It doesn't give you much. I agree, and I think that's a mistake on their part. Yeah, it is a mistake, I think. Because the main reason, to be honest, the main reason I haven't carried on watching more, I could have fitted it in, is because I wanted to watch some of the other shows we do, were more compelling to me. But that's why I was saying... But I really enjoyed it while it was on. And by the way, it's obsession with the shitting and the bodily functions and spitting. There's so much spitting and gobbing and nasal... Yeah, you see a full frontal nude in the first scene of the episode two. Oh, yeah, he strips up and gets bathed in the river and stuff and all of that.

1:20:16But what I'm saying is the devotion to bodily functions is quite extraordinary. There's a lot of mucus and saliva going on. Just to pre-warn viewers who might be distressed by that. Okay, but it's like... where the Targaryens are in rule and it's like, you know, the last dragon hasn't been seen for like however many, a hundred years or something like that, isn't it? And it's a hundred years before Game of Thrones, isn't it? It is, yeah. It doesn't mean we have to watch people shitting. No, but it's kind of, you know, you're in that time. I think essentially for me, whereas with the first episode, I probably would have said, if I'd just watched one episode, I would have been disappointed.

1:20:48I think, not to say something so basic, but it is kind of the evolution of this main character and it's amazing. When you watch the whole thing, I really, please can you watch the rest of it because I think you will. You've inspired me. It's honestly, did you call me Kay? Steph. Steph. They are interchangeable. It's absolutely fine. They will both answer to it. I just want, what I want, dear listeners, please don't give, I just don't want them to give up on it if you love Game of Thrones because you will get that magic. Also, the episodes are half an hour long. There's really no excuse not to watch the rest.

1:21:22James, people have other things to do but what I'm saying is this should be one of those things to do. Don't give up on it. First of all, you lecturing us on how we should watch shows that are only half an hour long. What about all these comedies over the years that you've barely imagined? Those are an exception. Yeah, the first episode, let alone commit ourselves to watching the rest. I will watch the rest of it. Please do. I will, absolutely. I mean, I was thinking of doing it anyway, but I just wanted to say, as a critic of this show, much as I enjoyed it, it gives you very little reason, if you're not a fully-fledged fan of the whole world and the whole milieu, to carry on watching it.

1:21:53What did James think? Yeah. I mean, weirdly, I do agree with Steph, but this isn't Game of Thrones, and it's deliberately not trying to be Game of Thrones. It's a very different animal. It's a very different beast. Tonally, it's very different, partly from a comedic point of view, but partly because Game of Thrones is an epic, kind of panned-out, Westeros-level view of kings and queens and thrones and conspiracies and white walkers and dragons and destiny and fate and all these sorts of things. This is not that. This is a very small, character-driven tale about one man and his squire. This is Game of Thrones local?

1:22:23It is, but it's also, it's working class. Like, it's like, it's the, this is the working class story to Game of Thrones, like, kings and queens and princes. Like, it's a very different, it is supposed to be in the muck and in the shit. And, you know, it's in Flea Bottom. It's like, it's a deliberately quite grubby, one foot in the gutter type story. And I think that's what Ira Parker was trying to do with this because that retains the feel of the novellas. I've read all of them, so I wasn't, I wasn't thrown off by the first episode of this because I knew where the story was going. It's a great story because it shows you aspects of Game of Thrones that will be familiar, like the Heraldry, you see Baratheons, you see Targaryens, you see Fosseways, people that you, you know, not so much people that you would recognize, but houses and livery that you would recognize.

1:23:02But it's not about that. And it is funny, but equally there is a big, I think it's safe to say, there's a big battle, sort of fight type scene in it. It's incredibly unusually shot and well put together. And it's like, and it's the antithesis of a Game of Thrones battle, which is dragons and hundreds of people dying. and this is quite literally in the visor of one character. Like, it's a really zoomed-in Game of Thrones tale. And actually, it's a really refreshing change of pace for that world. And I think it's a wonderful little Game of Thrones palette cleanser. It is the complete opposite of House of the Dragon.

1:23:38Yes, which I didn't like. Well, I love House of the Dragon. But this is the opposite that that is. How can you call yourself a Thrones fan? I know, I know that sounds like... House of the Dragons. Weirdly, I was just upstairs talking to another colleague, and she was really excited about watching this, and she loves Game of Thrones as much as I do, but she didn't like House of the Dragon, and I said, I think you'll love this. I don't know whether it is because it is on that smaller scale, and you've got that, I don't know, human interest? I don't know. It's a character-led show. Do you know what I mean?

1:24:08And so I really fucking like this guy. I really liked his character. He's very likable. I was rooting for him I cared about him so I don't know whether I don't know I don't know why but House of the Dragon was almost too broad well also it's that Game of Thrones is quite a serious show but it's leavened with comedy like Tyrion's a very funny character there are laughs in it House of the Dragon is acutely humorous that's probably why it is whereas this is really funny and just quite charming I think we're thronesed out with this one but did you like it James? I loved it yeah I loved it I watched it you know I loved it I was watching it last year of course I was but yes I enjoyed it enormously A Night of the Seven Kingdoms then which is available on Sky and Now when Boydie?

1:24:50Monday the 19th of January 2026 2026 right well we've got bigger fish to fry and where better to fry them than ITV because next up we have After the Flood which returns after its watery debut to see Sophie Rundle's PC Joanna Marshall still reeling from the corruption revelations of Series 1 only to be faced by even more ordeals this time with A Fire on the Moors. And yes, don't worry, the exciting music is back. Steph, please give us your full assessment of After the Flood or as it should probably be retitled, Onto the Moors. After the Fire. After the Fire. During the Fire. During the Fire. During the Fire.

1:25:28Okay, so I'll have to admit I didn't watch the first season of After the Flood but after a quick Google I knew everything that happened in After the Flood, the first one. Right, what did I think of this? Okay, so obviously, you know from, like, they're off the back of all this corruption that you know her husband is corrupt, but he's kind of trying to make amends in this. I'm not giving away any spoilers. He knows he did bad things. He was taking, you know, money and he was, you know, he's involved in various plots and things like that. But they've had a baby together and he's kind of trying to, you know, become good again in some ways.

1:26:09so there's a fire there's a fire on the moor and then a body is discovered and it turns out again there's no spoilers the body is discovered it turns out this person was already dead I don't think that is a spoiler because you find out very early on and it's who's killing all these people blah blah blah for me it was a bit like you know in the magic of Murder, She Wrote where people are getting killed like in every different street and it just always seems to be happening where she is there's a lot of people dying in this quite small area for me to completely commit to it as a purely dramatic piece of television.

1:26:47Do you know what I mean? It's, I don't know, it just, no one seemed to be that shocked that in this same area, more people were dying. Do you know what I mean? You mean like the old Midsommar problem, that there's a lot of murders going on in Midsommar, but this is quite, you say it's quite a small area, but it's not that many homicides for such a size of town? I think there are. You think it is? Oh, okay. Yeah, I do. I think statistic-wise it's quite high. Per capita the level of murder is quite high. Okay, maybe. So yeah, obviously she's on a mission to kind of right all the wrongs of all these terrible people around her whilst raising her daughter and really trying to get to the bottom of it.

1:27:28As an actress I think she's great. She's brilliant in this in terms of her role. I just didn't really care for it that much. I don't, I don't, I'm not bothered about who's killing everyone, which is obviously key to continuing to watch it. Do you know? I know, sorry, this sounds absolutely scathing. As a murder mystery goes, not really caring who the murderer is isn't great. You care about the, there's two things going on, aren't there, really? As you said, there's the murder, there's a body, she finds a body, and that, which is, may or may, there's the fire going on in the thing, but there's also this kind of triangle of her colleague effectively bribing or blackmailing her and her husband with secrets because there are secrets about him.

1:28:14They know about his corruption, which is worse than her husband's corruption. And so there's a constant kind of conflict going on between those two, her and her husband, and the police guy, her boss, essentially. And that's interesting. I think that's the best element of the whole thing for me is that you really resent the guy who's manipulating them and is playing tricks with them and he nominates her for a special award. And he's creepy and exploitative. But I think he's a bit too, like, I don't know. I don't want to say overacted, but I just feel like he kind of appears in rooms at times and goes, is everything okay?

1:28:50Oh, yeah. And I'm a bit like, oh, my God. Yeah, I mean, it's not... Again, I watched two episodes of this because I didn't want to get into that thing of, like, I only watched one episode and actually maybe it is really good when you get into the second episode. You chose poorly. But I wasn't compelled to watch another one because I just didn't care enough about any of the characters. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's fine. I, I, here's the thing. So is it, I know James is like, James is like champing at the bitch. It's like, he's chomping, chomping, chomping. Chomping. I believe it is champing, but carry on.

1:29:18I can't wait to say it's an ITV. It's a, it's a very ITV. Bob's standard ITV. I mean, on one level it is, but here's, here's, here's the thing. Oh God. I can't use that phrase. I, I, I cared more about these people. Do you? Man. Oh, no. I mean, I kind of wanted to know, I wanted to carry on watching this. There was more reason to carry on watching this than A Night of the Thingy Watched. We need to get you checked. By the way, I fully acknowledge the fact that the production values of the night, of the Game of Thrones spin-off were supreme and it was beautifully shot and it was all very well done and it's lavish and all of that.

1:29:59And this is, you know, this is a fairly stable BBC, mainstream, prime time, crime thriller on BBC or ITV. It's going to be on either or Channel 4. It's a much smaller budget. But I do kind of care about the characters. I think she's great, as you say. She is great. Sophie Rundle. But you know who the MVP, the most valuable person in the cast is the great Lorraine Ashbourne, who is brilliant, off of Riot Girls most recently. she is so fantastic as her mum as the mum I do like that dynamic she alone is almost for me enough reason to carry on watching no absolutely not so I admit it is core ITV territory but I find it enjoyable and compelling and I kind of want to know what happens in the end I just really need you to confirm out loud one more time that you care you, Boyd Hilton care more about the characters in The Flood than you do about Duncan the Tall in the Game of Thrones prequel.

1:31:02Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I'm philosophically against deriding ITV drama. You are. Referring as we, you know, this has been going on for a while. There is the theme. How long have we been doing this podcast? A while. But so, and I admit, it's not as good, really, I'm sure, as the night. What's the call? A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. but I just think I'm interested in the situation and the characters and Lorraine Ashmore in particular okay but in a world where we're telling people how to spend their viewing time you're standing by saying go for after the flood no no no I'm not saying that no I'm just saying my honest reaction no I'm absolutely not saying that so I'm glad you've I'm clarifying for me personally there was more reason to carry on watching this than there was to carry on watching A Night of the Seven Kingdoms after one episode that's all I'm saying I'm not saying more than that maybe when I've watched the whole thing as you've admonished me about and I will watch the whole thing, I will say, okay, it was worth it and everything.

1:31:57But right now, that's the honest position I was in and, you know, that's all I'm saying. We reviewed season one of this and my main takeaway from that was the ridiculously intrusive music. I remember you were obsessed with the music. It was like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. It was like, all right, calm down. It is back, but it's not as intrusive, I will say this time around, but this show is ridiculous. There's a bit where someone literally is mad Googling. She's Googling, psychology of shooting a dead body. It's like, it's just, it's so spoon feeding you stuff. And there's a bit where, and I know this is obviously not high budget show, but they talk about the fire on the moors and she gets there and she's like, oh, there's this huge fire.

1:32:34And you go there and there's this little bonfire. It's a little barbecue, I know. And she's like, what are we going to do? I was like, I don't know, walk around it? I mean, it wouldn't be a challenge. Like, Dante's Peak, this is not. And I was just like, really, really? But also, James, there is a literal cliffhanger in the list. There is, yeah. And for me, I was like, oh, God. I mean... Oh, yeah, that was exciting. I forgot about that bit. Was it? Yeah. Was it? I'm not sure it was. I couldn't have cared when that person got shot. Oh, again, honestly. There's a distant shot of that where this person's just like flailing around.

1:33:07Yeah. And I genuinely just thought it was quite comedic. Yeah, she's standing on the wall and she just goes, and it's just going, ah, ah. And then she walks over and finds someone falling into the, like, off the cliff. Someone who, in avoiding the tiny small bonfire, has decided to almost hurl themselves off the side of a precipice. Yeah. I can't say, I would not say this qualifies as peak TV entertainment, but sure, look, if you are of a mind to watch Sophie Rundle run around around a bonfire, then, you know. He says patronising me. He said patronising me, then you might have a giggle. I love an ITV drama.

1:33:41I do. I just, I don't love this one. No, fair enough. Okay. Fair enough. It feels like it's not fair enough, Boyd. It feels, it feels like you want me to love it not at all no no no I have no strong desire for you to he's not in the pocket of big flood yeah no I don't need to climb aboard the after the flood bandwagon and abandon the night of the 70s I would never do that no after the flood then ITV when? it started yesterday Sunday the 18th it carries on today Monday the 19th and it's on two episodes a week in that pattern for the next couple of weeks exciting right finally this week we have the return of Apple's Drops of God This is Kwok Dang Tran's Japanese-French series, which began when Fleur Guiffre's Camille Legere goes to the funeral of her estranged father, only to discover that her inheritance depended entirely on her ability to defeat this guy, this sort of almost like her spiritual brother, which is her father's star pupil, Tomohisa Yamashita's character, who is Issei Tomine, and they have to take part in a series of kind of, I guess, jigsaw-esque, fiendish, wine-related challenges to determine a winner.

1:34:43That's all been resolved now, but the second series sees sort of dear old dad once more reach out from beyond the grave with yet another quest. And this time it's to trace the origin of a mysterious vintage. So discuss this wine-oriented mystery. We turn now to notorious pisshead, Boyd Hilton. That's one of your best introses. I was not expecting to be called a pisshead. Champagne only, obviously. Yeah. Right, so series one... Oh my gosh, sorry, can I just mention? do you remember when you got that champagne disease? Do you remember when you got that? Yeah, diverticulitis. Yeah, yeah. And me and Kay literally could not believe we were like, only you would get something you could only get from drinking copious amounts of champagne.

1:35:24And you could only get from drinking champagne. Anyway, this, the first season, we reviewed the first season, didn't we? I remember we watched the first couple of episodes. And Kay's watched all of this. She really loved this. We should acknowledge Kay, co-colleague Kay. Job share Kay. Because you referred to her. But a lot of people really loved this show. There was a huge amount of people of listening to the show, go in touch, saying you should finish Drops of Gold, it's really good, blah, blah, blah. So, but I didn't finish season one. You did, because I did not to take their advice. I took their advice.

1:35:54And I've come into season one. You don't need to have watched, by the way, really, season one, because this is a different story. It's set in the world of wine, so to speak. And it's another great wine mystery-based plot, storyline. And the storyline being that they're given, the dad bequeaths the winner of the competition he set in the previous series, the world's greatest bottle of wine. Now, I'm sorry, right? I'm no expert on wine. And I like a nice glass of red every now and then, as you say, champagne. But how do you determine the world? What does that even mean, the world's greatest wine?

1:36:31I mean, so that was one hurdle I had to climb. Obviously, they must employ loads of wine experts for this show. So there's lots of classic... It reminded me, was it the food show back in the day when... What was the show when there was like a wine expert? And that's the first time, if you were growing up and you heard suddenly all talk of like, you know, it tastes... Notes of this. Notes of rose and yeah. And there's loads of wine chat, like comparing wine to lots of bizarre, utry things going on in this show. but and I kind of and it's got again great production values Apple TV throwing all the money there is looks great it's very it's kind of it's got kind of like quite cold style if you like it's like very magisterial and kind of quite slow isn't it the kind of paces of it I would say deliberately paced to use that phrase it's slow it takes it takes a while to get going and I enjoyed it and everyone's very good in it Fleur Guiffrier you did a very good job with your pronunciations is very good.

1:37:37I don't really like the Isai Tomine character, but he's supposed to be a bit of a... He's supposed to be a bit of a bellend, yeah. A bit of a bellend, yeah. But you know, I got to the end of the first episode and I thought, it's great and everything, very well done. But do I really care about finding... It's not national treasure, is it? Yeah, but do I really care about finding why this bottle of wine is so amazing and is the best wine in the world? I don't know if I really do. But, you know, I love Apple... You know, it's got the signature Apple TV approach to have incredible production values, but I'm not sure this is the one for me.

1:38:10And, you know, yeah, I don't think I'm going to, I'm riveted by the idea of finding out more about this bottle of wine. Well, it's more vibes-based, I think, than plot-based. It is a vibe, yeah. It kind of, like it's, I would, if I knew anything about wine, I would use some kind of analogy about swirling the thing and sniffing it, whereas you just want to chug the bottle straight from, like neck it straight from the bottle. Basically. But no, you do have to kind of savour this a little bit because it's about the atmosphere, because it's beautifully shot. It really is, yeah. And they sit and, you know, they dial in.

1:38:37There's a whole free diving segment and he's barely searching for visions, which was a wild little plot strand. But I think you have to kind of almost immerse yourself in the bouquet of the series. Ooh, nice. Well done, you. Well done, you. I'm going to say, right, on paper, if someone said, would you like to watch this show based on a manga comic, right, about wine, and you're going to have to read the show, as you know. Ginny Gordon, that's what I was thinking of. Carry on. Excellent, thank you. Glad we cleared that up. I would say, God, no, sounds terrible. I mean, I don't drink at all, so I literally could not give a shit about wine.

1:39:18I'm not a massive fan of shows you have to read. And, you know, so to me, I would be like, and it's the comic, you know, no. But I absolutely loved this show. Have you seen season one? I haven't seen season one and I'm going to watch it because I was concerned that I hadn't watched because this was the second time, obviously, second season of After the Fire Flood thing, right? And I was like, oh, God, this feels like something you'd have to watch the first season of. And actually, it isn't because, again, I Googled what happened in the first season. I loved it. Beautifully shot. I found both the dynamic between the two main characters really compelling.

1:39:56Again, you referred to the free diving. His exploration of his own character and his internal thoughts is fascinating to me. Something happens at the end of the first episode, which I think does make you want to watch more of it. I even really enjoyed... He did more than A Night of the Things. A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. A Night of the Seven Bottles. A wine of the seven countries. Even, I just, I found, even, you know, there's a bit where he goes, because this bottle of wine that they open, which I... Unhelpfully doesn't have a label. No, it doesn't have a label because there was one with a label and there's only three bottles and then there's this investigation.

1:40:35How can I... And I believe that this is the best bottle of wine and he wants to find the origins of this wine. And for someone who doesn't give a shit about wine, I want to know the origins of this wine. Waitrose. Yeah, I... Imagine if the climax is in Waitrose. It really drew me in. And even just like at the beginning where they go to, you know, all the stuff she's done with the vineyard and stuff, just architecturally, I thought, I found it really visually pleasing. It is beautiful to watch. I agree. It's so visually enticing that it's almost reason enough to carry on. Yeah. On my big, you know, 75-incher.

1:41:14Here we go. It looks stunning, yeah. I've only got a 50-incher, but I watched it on that, and I just, I really enjoyed it. I found, and you know, to your point, that you have to kind of immerse yourself in it. I really did immerse myself and I thoroughly enjoyed it. You're absolutely right. The term for it being a vibe is key because it is like you can, even though it's not, it's quite, it is slow, it's still, it's stateliness and it's beauty and it's kind of, and that tone is very enticing, I think. So yeah, I've kind of, I loved it. I really loved it. It's appealing. It does make me want to, to go back and watch the first season and I would do that if I had not read all of the Wikipedia episode summaries in advance of this second season and thereby ruining it for myself.

1:41:54Why did you do that? Because I'm a professional, Boyd. I did that too. I felt like I wanted to know all of the information going into the second season. Oh, gosh. Drops of God. I do not know the French or Japanese for that, so we'll just say it in English. And that lands on Apple TV when, Boydy? I think... Oh, you caught me out. You caught me out. I think. Boyd's going to guess. He's going to see it. Wednesday. Wednesday. 21st of January, 2026. Fabulous. Right. What else is out this week, Boydy? What have we missed? Obviously, we did mention the Ryan Murphy show, The Beauty, which we will probably talk about on Pilot Plus.

1:42:24There's also Steel on Prime Video which we might also talk about on Pilot Plus or do one or the other. Part of the reason why we did two, not one, but two second series which we try not to do. We try and prioritise brand new stuff. We do. Both Steel, which is a big thing with Sophie Turner, that is heavily embargoed and The Beauty, which is the Ryan Murphy show which he has worked on. He has directed this. It's with Ashton Kusher, etc. That is also heavily embargoed. That's on Thursday. We could have done Sandakan The Pirate Prince on Netflix but that dropped in quite late in the day and we'd already watched some of the shows.

1:42:56John Hanna's in that and apparently a pirate prince. So that's on Netflix drops on today in fact on Monday. Things You Should Have Done. Do you remember Things You Should Have Done? It's the BBC 3 that's on Tuesday on BBC 3 10 o 'clock. This is the show the comedy that Joanna Page weirdly do you remember on her TV review podcast slagged off like the nicest person in the world. What was the intention behind that? She just found it she just has a genuine reaction to it. I don't I don't know it's that girl for doing it she just gave her honest it's a TV review show her and Natalie Cassidy I think it is and obviously other TV review shows are available but she just didn't enjoy it she didn't think it was that good and she said so I thought I admire her honestly but that did become what this show was most famous for I thought it was really funny this is a big absolute not a show for James working class people being funny and vulgar it's classic non-James territory so yeah but it is back on Tuesday the 20th and I think it's a really good show.

1:43:50ITVX this Sunday. Both Gossip Girls arrive on ITVX. The original and the remake. So if you love a bit of Gossip Girl, it's all on ITV. Yeah, which is handy. And there's another one of these Netflix shows not entirely fanfared about is Finding Her Edge. This is on Thursday on Netflix, Thursday the 22nd, and it's an adaptation of a novel about sisters who are part of a figure skating dynasty. Oh my God. What? Yes, it's figure skating drama. Wow, okay. And before you scoff and say, well, I mean, you know, So Heated Rivalry is a nice hockey-based drama. And look where that's gone. So, you know, it might be brilliant.

1:44:23I'm open to it. I love a wine-based drama now. So, you know, I'm open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But, yeah, that's Finding Her Edge. Netflix, heavily embargoed. But that is on Thursday. And what is our pick of the week, Steph? Oh. After the flood. Right. Okay, Boydy. A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. God, I don't know. That's because you've made some really poor choices and decisions. You have made some poor choices. And comments in this episode. in this episode don't say it's after the flood I might say it's after the flood don't say it's after the flood oh god Boyd is the actual worst I might say Joss of God I'm going to say Joss of God split the difference alright we'll let you off it's a night of the seven kingdoms right okay that is it for this week's show if you enjoyed it please do leave us a rating I don't think we've had a review in a while we've had some negative ones we're not going to read those out some yeah they do come for us occasionally okay I'm just saying Kay has not left she is just having it on a job share come back you know don't listen to the haters offset the haters leave us a five-star review, please.

1:45:18And also, if you want to follow us on the social medias, we are at PilotTVPod, at Boyd Hilton, at James C. Dyer. And what are you, Steph? What is your handle? At Steph Sealand. At Steph Sealand. How original. Right, okay, super. On next week's show, I don't know what we're going to be doing, but Wonder Man lands on Disney Plus next week, shrinking. Kate will be very excited. Returns on Apple. Bridgerton is back on Netflix. What else have we got? Under Saltmarsh comes the Sky Atlantic. Under Saltmarsh, yes. Yeah, so a collection of some of those, I would think. Isn't this exciting? Steph, how have you found your first episode?

1:45:44I'm afraid we're out of time. Thank you very much. Pilot out. Cheeky.