Black Rabbit, Gen V, and Juice. With guests Andrew Lincoln and David Ireland

4:37David Ireland:With your deck shoes on.

4:38Andrew Lincoln:Yeah. And his little captain's hat.

4:40David Ireland:Yeah.

4:41Andrew Lincoln:Yeah. So, yeah. No, but in fact, you haven't finished yet, have you? you're still detailing what you're watching I'm just interrupting you no no not at all because that is literally the only thing I dedicated

4:50David Ireland:myself to because I was feeling like poorly and I was just like I just need something I know that's going to make me feel good and it did

4:56Andrew Lincoln:oh because what I've been watching but I know you were watching as well which is the NTA you're watching we're watching at home James as I am sure you weren't oh of course I thought it was a decent show all in all decent winners better winners than usual I would say yes me too are we saving it for news should we save it I don't know is it news

5:13Kay Ribeiro:let's save it for news

5:15Andrew Lincoln:but the show itself

5:15Kay Ribeiro:And, you know, if near June news, we're running out of time, we don't have time, then so be it.

5:19Andrew Lincoln:Yeah. Thanks. But as for the show itself, there was a really moving and brilliant performance by the band, the house band from that series. The Assembly. The Assembly, which was so good, wasn't it? That was brilliant. Yeah, I completely, tears did trickle down my face.

5:34David Ireland:It was joyful and, yeah. I love how the audience responded to it. See, an audience full of stars who've seen and done it all and they're all on their feet. It was great to see.

5:44Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, yeah. it was excellent so the show and Joel Dommit did a pretty good job not as good as Dermot used to do obviously when he was hosting it but Joel Dommit he's a TV presenter James good good thank you for terrifying of many things and comedian in fact you forget he was a comedian I don't know why you forget that wasn't a dig obviously wow like Dermot no no no shade throne anyway it was I enjoyed it and I enjoyed it doubly the fact that I wasn't there and I didn't have to brave the transport and I just sat at home 100 % unlike many of my

6:16David Ireland:in my gym jams yeah

6:18Andrew Lincoln:brilliant so that was that the other thing I've been watching we had a correspondence didn't we in the in Pilot Plus from a fantastic person who said they liked it when we talked about shows that are coming up that we've kind of you know we're not yet reviewing yes but we're on the way the smug section the smug section as we call it yeah TSS that was Henry by the way

6:40David Ireland:Henry thank you Henry

6:41Andrew Lincoln:and Henry you'd be pleased to know that I have been watching a big new show on Apple TV Plus on my screeners that I will not review because we'll definitely, definitely be reviewing it in a couple weeks' time. Well, more than a couple weeks' time. Down Cemetery Road. Ah, yeah. The Mick Herron adaptation. Yeah, so this is a Mick Herron adaptation that's not from his Slow Horses series of books. This is from another book. And it's set in Oxford and it stars Emma Thompson and Ruth Wilson. I mean, it doesn't get much better. What a combo. What a duo. And it all kicks off when where Ruth Wilson lives with her irritating husband there's suddenly an explosion in the street and like a couple of doors down and someone goes missing after this explosion and it's all about how Ruth Wilson gets in touch with Emma Thompson who's a private detective and together they set about trying to work out what the hell's going on and yes

7:36David Ireland:I like the idea of Emma Thompson as a PI

7:38Andrew Lincoln:it is a good idea I'm not saying whether it works or not I'm not in any way reviewing it, but it's a good idea, isn't it, in theory?

7:45David Ireland:Yes.

7:46Andrew Lincoln:Emma Thompson, you're right, as a private eye of some kind. And we should say, it's been also produced and put together and written by people who worked on Slow Horses. So the mark of quality should be there, but we'll find out when we review it.

8:01David Ireland:These linguistic gymnastics you're doing.

8:03Andrew Lincoln:Yes, we shall find out when we review it in a couple of weeks' time. And not only, by the way, have I been watching that on the previews of Apple TV Plus, I've also been watching The Morning Show and getting well into that and again we'll be reviewing that one plus heavily embargoed The Morning Show heavily embargoed but it is a reminder I don't know what happened there some words were spoken that wasn't a review it wasn't a value judgment of any kind not at all yeah and people didn't even hear it so that's fine so yeah I've been watching a lot of Apple TV Plus forthcoming shows but now I feel very happy to talk about them because of our because of Daniel was it?

8:39Andrew Lincoln:no Henry Henry Henry Henri it's Henri Henri Henri Pires is it Henri Pires

8:45Kay Ribeiro:that's a gag for the Pilot Plus subscribers

8:47David Ireland:oh god

8:48Kay Ribeiro:sorry

8:50David Ireland:let's not repeat it now no but I agree with Henry and I've never said we shouldn't say it you know but my point was when someone on the team does that thing where they're like I've watched something really amazing I can't even tell you which streamer what the name of it is okay

9:06Kay Ribeiro:who would do that like genuinely

9:08Andrew Lincoln:what kind of monster would do that yeah Can I tell you one more thing quickly? Sorry, I know we're under... No, go on. No, no, it's fine. If it irritates James,

9:16David Ireland:let's go for it.

9:16Andrew Lincoln:There's a documentary that went out on ITVX from Friday. Obviously, it's still there because ITVX is just streaming about Downton Abbey. It's the official Downton Abbey farewell documentary and it's really fun. And I've... But have you seen the film? Are you pre-reviewing it

9:30Kay Ribeiro:on the Empire podcast? This is something that I was going to... Do you know what? It's funny. I was thinking, God, what have I watched this week? And that's the thing that I can now talk about. Because yes, I have seen in Captain Abbey, the grand finale. It's a film,

9:40Andrew Lincoln:but I've seen it. I really enjoyed it. I don't know about you. You probably have to, you'll be preempting your review. I reviewed it for Empire. Oh, did you?

9:47Kay Ribeiro:How many stars? I gave it three stars. Three. It was great. I might even give it four.

9:51David Ireland:Three, it was great. Yeah, I'd give it four. I'd say great is four. I know you would. You'd give all of them four.

9:55Kay Ribeiro:Yeah, but three doesn't mean it's great. No. Yeah, no, three means it's like possible. It's all about the context. I don't think anyone, I think it's different. I think, so I had a whale of a time I saw that I saw Spinal Tap 2 let's move on and a number of things that particular day and I had so much fun with Downton Abbey but I can't in good conscience describe it as a good film but I loved it because I love those characters and I spend so much time with them so on the one hand the kind of gymnastics I'm doing with this is it great? no but if you love those characters it's exactly what you want anyway so just go with it like it's fine

10:24Andrew Lincoln:which as per Roger Ebert or Robert Ebert the legendary film critic's way of judging stuff was always what is it setting out to do and does it achieve it? And exactly, Downton Abbey, what Downton Abbey, the grand finale thing I have to do is to massively entertain fans of the show, people who like the show, and to revel in the whole point of the series and to give you a satisfactory ending. And it achieves all those things brilliantly, hence the four stars that I will be giving in. I mean, I have given it. Of course you will. So if I go to the cinema,

10:50David Ireland:I'm not going to be disappointed in this with the Thursday murder film.

10:53Kay Ribeiro:No, it's the antidote to the Thursday murder film. Although it is worth noting that it is Downton without the Dowager Countess, which is quite a big shift. Sure. By and large, I think Veloz does pull it off, though. He pulls it off. Yeah, which I thought was actually quite nice. It is the lowest of low stakes ever. Like, the high-action set piece is the modernization of the county fair. The county fair storyline is amazingly low stakes.

11:18Andrew Lincoln:But that's just an excuse to give the actor... Simon Russell-Bill, who is amazing. Amazing, a really funny... Sir Hector. Yeah. He's brilliant in it. And... I like how we're talking about a film. this one gets a free pass it's because I'm interested

11:34David Ireland:also it's Downton it gets a free pass

11:35Andrew Lincoln:yeah we're all down it's a safe space for Downton fans also there's Noel Cowards in it not actual Noel Cowards not actual Noel Edmonds the late Noel Cowards yes has not been resurrected no but he is played by an actor with a tremendous name do you remember his name James? not off the top of my head

11:53Kay Ribeiro:I had to look it up for the review

11:54Andrew Lincoln:it's a boogle

11:55Kay Ribeiro:it's a boogle

11:55Andrew Lincoln:it's a boogle and if you just give me a few seconds I will tell you that that Noel Coward is played by an actor called Artie Fruchan. What a name. Artie Fruchan. He does great Noel Coward. And Artie does great Noel Coward. And it's a lovely, without spoiling anything, it's a lovely element of the film. I can't wait to see it.

12:15Kay Ribeiro:I mean, yeah. There's a private lives gag, which is just absolutely toe-curling, but it's still made me smile. You will leave with a massive smile on your face. But the thing is, it's interesting, because at this point, Downton Abbey has had more endings than Return of the King. Yes. So, like, you had this series, which ended beautifully. Then you had the first film, which I think was the weakest of this trilogy of films. For sure. But again, gave it a decent send-off. And then you had a new era, which actually felt like really lovely because the upstairs became downstairs, the downstairs became upstairs, and the film.

12:41Kay Ribeiro:And again, a perfect send-off for the series. Now we have another perfect send-off for the series, and this time they've called it the grand finale, so I'm really hoping it sticks. Because at this point, it's like, I really like the show, but you really do need to stop now. But it is a lovely send-off, and it made me feel all warm and glowy. And yeah, I had an absolute whale of a time. No one else in my screening did, but I did.

13:01Andrew Lincoln:Oh, people in my screening were crying. Really? There were people in tears.

13:04Kay Ribeiro:Did you interrogate the reasons for the tears?

13:06Andrew Lincoln:No, they were not crying with disappointment at the film. They were crying because they were so emotionally connected to the film. Oh, I'm going to have a blast. It is moving. I know it. Yeah, no, no. Absolutely unashamed.

13:15Kay Ribeiro:Lady Edith gets a lay of the smack down on a cad.

13:18David Ireland:Oh, I thought you meant on Mary, which I'd be even more delighted about.

13:20Kay Ribeiro:Well, you know, it's interesting. Their dynamic, I think, has evolved to such an extent. Because you get a little bit of the old Mary-Edith dynamic in there, and then it sort of writes itself, which I quite like.

13:29Andrew Lincoln:Lady Mary is really the main character in this story. I'm quite right. She always is.

13:34Kay Ribeiro:She's the best character, though. But what's great about Lady Mary, and what has always been the case with Lady Mary, is she is basically Violet. Yes. She's Violet. She's 100 % young Violet. So even though you don't have the dowager countess, she basically is that. I'm so glad.

13:50Andrew Lincoln:By the way, I also got to interview Alan Leach and Hugh Bonneville for The Empire film podcast, because obviously Chris Hewitt needed someone who watched the TV show. and he could only find me. And I was on the plane. And he was on the plane. I am delighted.

14:03David Ireland:Look, he had to stick that in, James. Yeah, exactly. You little shit.

14:05Andrew Lincoln:Not even first choice to do a TV-related. No, oh, Boyd. No, it's fine. I don't give a shit. Listen. I don't give a shit.

14:11David Ireland:You're always my first choice.

14:13Andrew Lincoln:You've got an audience with Lord Grantham. No, it was wonderful. It was wonderful, yeah.

14:17David Ireland:Last question before we have to move on. Yeah. How smug is Bates in this? Because that's my benchmark. He's always smug.

14:24Kay Ribeiro:He is smug. It's not that he's smug. is that he has resting smug face. So I don't think he's like a smug character, but he has that kind of expression.

14:32David Ireland:No, he is quite smug, James. You think? The man went to prison. I think the fact that you can't detect it is quite telling.

14:40Andrew Lincoln:I think Carson is smugger, though. I think Carson's always been wonderful. Carson is lovely, and I won't hear a word against him.

14:45Kay Ribeiro:Don't you come for Carson. I'm not coming for... Charlie is my man. Oh, all right. Okay, steady. In your dreams. Well, anyway.

14:55David Ireland:What have you been watching, James?

14:55Kay Ribeiro:What am I watching other than Downton Abbey, the grand finale, which obviously I enjoyed enormously. I have been pressing on with the morning show as well. I will have finished that by the time we review it on this week's Pilot Plus 4. It's heavily embarked. But what I've been doing a lot of this week is re-watching Alien Earth. So I re-watched a ton of Alien Earth.

15:11David Ireland:Wait, didn't we just review it?

15:13Kay Ribeiro:Several weeks ago, yes.

15:14Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, but they do spoiler special chats, not involving me on the Empire podcast. That's right.

15:19Kay Ribeiro:So our Boyd-free spoiler special chats, although I'm not on the first one either. I'm in the second one. And we will be doing a third one.

15:24David Ireland:I think we have to stop talking about it.

15:25Kay Ribeiro:And we should mention, because I don't think I mentioned it on the regular podcast, but by popular demand, the Alien Earth spoiler specials are now available on the Pilot Plus feed.

15:34David Ireland:Well done, James. There we go.

15:36Kay Ribeiro:We fought the good fight.

15:37David Ireland:Yeah. And was it a fight?

15:38Kay Ribeiro:A little bit. Okay. We wrested custody away from Empire and now we have them on our feed as well.

15:43Andrew Lincoln:James and Chris had a naked wrestling match. We did. Like in Women in Love. Yeah. With Oliver Reed and Alan Bates. They recreated that.

15:49David Ireland:Listen, did I not tell you I walked 25 minutes in for this? Not for that visual. I didn't come for this. Sorry.

15:54Kay Ribeiro:Yeah, she's broken out in a swear. It's unclear whether it's to do with the walk. Anyway, so I did that because I had a big old 45-minute chat with Noah Hawley last night. Of course you did. Where we got into all of the plotty stuff for Alien Earth, and that's going to be on the third Alien Earth Spoiler Special.

16:07David Ireland:No, that's quite a good coup. Well done.

16:08Kay Ribeiro:He was great.

16:09David Ireland:Did you organize it, James?

16:11Kay Ribeiro:Did I organize it? No, Chris set it up.

16:13David Ireland:Wow, I set it all up.

16:14Kay Ribeiro:But yeah, it was a lot of fun. So Noah Hawley wasn't watching the NTAs? No, he wasn't. He wasn't watching the NTAs. Just checking. I'm sure I dragged him away from them, and then he went straight back. But yeah, that was a lot of fun. We had a chat about the musical Needle Drops that he put in there. Yeah, there's some really good Needle Drops. For people of a certain age. Yes. To which his answer was, I see you. I see you. But yeah, it was a lot of fun. But do keep an eye out for that. That will be appearing on the Empire Sports Special Feed and indeed the Pilot Plus Feed very soon. Well, when the finale airs, let's be honest, which is in a couple of weeks.

16:42David Ireland:Why did you whisper that? Is it a secret? Yeah. Shh, don't tell anyone. Oh God, no, stop.

16:47Kay Ribeiro:But no, mainly I've been playing video games more than watching TV this week. so yeah sorry good to mix it up yeah I thought so I've been a samurai running around feudal Japan

16:57David Ireland:of course you have

16:58Kay Ribeiro:yeah exactly that so that is what we've been watching now let me have a look at the clock and see if we have time for a listener question go on let's do a quick one Kay

17:06David Ireland:okay so this is from Dion from West Wales who says hi all first of all I have to say thank you for all your recommendations and reviews I pass the ones that aren't my cup of tea onto my partner and she enjoys the recommendations of different things my question is how do you deal with recommendations from other people when it comes to TVs, TV films, books, etc. I find it hard to take on people's suggestions, but I always give them. Keep up the great podcast.

17:32Kay Ribeiro:That probably says a lot more about him than it does. But I don't know. That's quite a good one. I feel like

17:36David Ireland:you'd have the same reaction.

17:38Kay Ribeiro:So I don't ever take book recommendations from anyone ever. Apart from occasionally Helen O 'Hara. She's the only person, even then, frankly, our taste doesn't always a lie. Well, because I only read pretty much fantasy novels. That's pretty much all I read. And I have a pretty long sofa list of fantasy novels I need to read. Yeah, we've seen your bookshelf. Right. And the new Jay Kristoff is out very, very soon. Empire of the Dorm. Very excited about that. Ooh, what? Take my word for it. It's going to be wonderful. Third part in the trilogy. So I don't necessarily... But also, like, if someone recommends you a TV show, you can pop it on for five minutes, see what it's like.

18:10Kay Ribeiro:Someone recommends you a book, that's a big time commitment. And I think people's book tastes are quite personal. So, yeah, I don't like book recommendations.

18:17David Ireland:But I would argue you could give it a few chapters and see if you got rid of it.

18:19Kay Ribeiro:So I can't do that. If I start a book, I have to finish it.

18:22David Ireland:But you can stop a series?

18:23Kay Ribeiro:Yeah. That's weird. I know.

18:25David Ireland:So inconsistent. I can't, no, genuinely, I don't like to stop books.

18:28Kay Ribeiro:I've done it on occasion, but it makes me very anxious and I don't like to do it.

18:31David Ireland:Okay, well, nor should you have to then. Thank you. Get you into it. Do you take TV series recommendations?

18:37Kay Ribeiro:I mean, you don't watch films, but do you take TV series recommendations?

18:40David Ireland:I do, actually. Yeah, I do. I mean, my list of things to watch is so long anyway, but if I think it's like, you know, something that I've missed that I would like, like, you know, I will always take recommendations from Boyd because I feel like...

18:54Andrew Lincoln:Because he knows you.

18:55David Ireland:Yes. When people know me and they're like, know literally...

18:58Andrew Lincoln:Are you idiosyncrasies, quirks and foibles?

19:02David Ireland:Indeed. So I will add, so when Boyd used to turn to me and be like, you're going to like this, in that kind of very unenthusiastic way, but because he knows me, I would add it to my list yeah I think it depends on the person that's giving it right

19:17Kay Ribeiro:so if I gave you a recommendation you just ignore it

19:19David Ireland:yeah because you've said to me before no no go on really stick with foundation you'll really like it

19:24Andrew Lincoln:I never said that about foundation it's quite the opposite in fact it was more I don't even know why we're bothering to have you look at this program it was more that assuming

19:36David Ireland:he tried to get me to watch it three times

19:38Kay Ribeiro:I didn't think you'd like it It was more for my own amusement.

19:40David Ireland:So perverse. That's why I won't take any recommendations. Game of Thrones,

19:43Kay Ribeiro:I genuinely think you might enjoy it. I can't say for sure, but I think you might.

19:48David Ireland:I think you're right. And actually, it is a plan for autumn.

19:51Kay Ribeiro:Is it really? Yeah, for real. Am I being trolled, Boydie?

19:54David Ireland:No, no, no. I promise. But I wasn't going to mention it because then I knew that you'd be on my case. Game of Thrones. Yeah, exactly. I knew this shit was true.

20:00Kay Ribeiro:Triumphant return. Oh, God. Right, weekly Pilot Plus episodes.

20:03David Ireland:Yes, see? Yes.

20:04Kay Ribeiro:I think we're in autumn now, by the way. Yes, we are.

20:06David Ireland:by autumn I mean October

20:08Andrew Lincoln:okay you mean late autumn early winter I think we're looking at what I mean is

20:13David Ireland:when I get into my hibernation

20:16Andrew Lincoln:that's when I'll be

20:17David Ireland:settling down with it what about you Boyd I mean I can't imagine anyone recommends anything Boyd watches everything so what are you going to recommend yeah

20:23Andrew Lincoln:there's a problem yeah I can't remember the last time actually having said that there's been a couple of times on this very show where people have mentioned shows normally foreign language ones or foreign shows yeah Yeah, that's true. Or shows that we've reviewed the first episode of, and people have said, oh, you should carry on watching it because it gets better. And that's happened a couple of times. I was trying to think of an example, but I can't have a stop on my head. But it's definitely happened. People have said, no, no, no, you went too early on your criticism of a particular show. And that's fair enough, because often we have so much to watch on this.

21:00Andrew Lincoln:When we do get to the review section, we only have time to watch one episode sometimes, which I always feel guilty about, actually, because TV is... In the whole history of TV, there's been loads of shows that have started off slowly and have built up head of scene and end up becoming brilliant. Schitt's Creek. Or Schitt's Creek, you'd have to sit through

21:16Kay Ribeiro:the whole first season, really, wouldn't you? No, not really. That's a slightly different thing.

21:18David Ireland:No, but do you say that there are certain shows...

21:21Kay Ribeiro:Even US office people often say start with season two.

21:24Andrew Lincoln:Box and Rex,

21:25David Ireland:start with season three. No.

21:26Andrew Lincoln:Seinfeld, start with season two, three, maybe. Ten. Ten, steady. Friends, start with season ten. Shots fired.

21:35David Ireland:come on boy but you know

21:37Andrew Lincoln:book recommendations I mean again because of you know I can't remember things Russell T. Davis on his Instagram feed recommends books very frequently does he? yes and I've bought at least three or four books purely because he's recommended them now I've yet to get around to reading them but like you because actually a lot like you I read crime novels just to kind of keep myself entertained

22:04David Ireland:you're reading the new Harlan Coburn

22:05Andrew Lincoln:definitely be reading the new Harlan always read the new Harlan Coburn I read the new there's a new Gertriche on the way which even though they are now being written by his brother I know it's an Andrew child I know it's an Andrew child but

22:16David Ireland:how do you feel about Patricia Cornwall I like Patricia Cornwall

22:19Andrew Lincoln:Patricia Cornwall is an example of someone who we reviewed on famously the Sion Mayo show and she was there on the you know down the line and we had to review her show whatever it was in front of her book Kay Scarpetta yeah it was a Scarpetta novel indeed yeah that we reviewed but she's really good I think she's an excellent

22:37David Ireland:so you didn't have to slag her off to her face no

22:39Andrew Lincoln:always good no exactly but that happened yeah I used to give book recommendations as well effectively because we do two books a week on that show for like five or six years it's basically the oracle

22:47David Ireland:yeah no no no

22:48Andrew Lincoln:I have been in the position of being the recommender in all kinds of ways so it's rare but yeah Russell T Davies' book recommendations I'm definitely going to get round to reading the ones that I've already bought which are literally literally next to my bed four or five of them

23:02David Ireland:To be read, Pyle.

23:03Andrew Lincoln:So, bottom line is, I would absolutely happily...

23:06David Ireland:He's open to it, guys. I'm open. He's open to it. DM him. Message him. For sure. He's got a lot of time in his hands, ready to take on your recommendations.

23:14Kay Ribeiro:Okay. We've answered the question. Yeah, good question. Hooray! If you'd like to get in touch, the email address, let's say it again, it's pilotTV at empiremagazine.com. I'd love to hear from you. We would. We would. Shall we have a guest? Let's have a guest. Let's have two, in fact. because this week's guests are the star and writer of ITV's Coldwater, Andrew Lincoln and David Ireland. Now, if you subscribe to Pilot Plus, and if not, why not? But you'll already have heard our review of that show, which sees Lincoln as a man dealing with his own kind of cowardice after failing to stop a woman being assaulted at a playground, plus some other somewhat mad turn of events.

23:50Kay Ribeiro:Now, the show started yesterday, I think, as we go out on ITV, and Boyddy cornered Lincoln and Ireland to talk all about it.

23:56Andrew Lincoln:please welcome Andrew Lincoln and David Ireland to the Pilot TV podcast. Andrew, star and producer of Coldwater. David, the creator, writer and producer as well. Welcome to the Pilot TV podcast. What was the initial kind of kernel for you of this show? Where did it start from?

24:13David Ireland:Well, I wrote the first episode and I wrote most of it in 2020, which was obviously a very weird year for most of us. so I was having trouble sleeping at night and I was being very insomniac like the character in the show and there was various things going on in my life that fed into the show like I was running obsessively I was reading the Bible obsessively I was thinking about moving to the countryside like a lot of people, me and my wife were talking about maybe we should move out of the city into the countryside and I was reading a lot of true crime books and so all that was sort of fading into it and turning it into what it was but it was always, the idea was always meant to be that it was going to be a thriller, you know, I just wasn't sure what kind of thriller

25:05Andrew Lincoln:All those elements are there, absolutely, aren't they? Yeah, in the show Andrew, I'm assuming, I think every interview you do from now on until the show comes out we'll start with the question, and I'm not above it it's 15 years since you did a British TV show what i mean obviously you've been busy in that time you've been busy with walking with the dead etc yeah i mean yeah yeah clearing the world of the undead yeah it takes a while boyd it does it's it's a big job and so they're relentless yes exactly but yeah it is it's 50 is it 15 years yeah it's uh what was the question is what was it about this project if i didn't finish the question What is it about this project that brought you back to British TV after 15 years?

25:50David Ireland:Well, I said no to it twice. Why? Because it made me nervous. It was a challenging role. It's a man that is in sort of crisis. It's a man that is a weak man who does something when he's faced with a violent incident. He runs away. And he's sort of a man who's lost a sense of himself, a middle-aged man. But it was so beautifully written, and I knew David's writing his plays. I knew I'd been to one of his plays very recently when I got sent the script. And then I just couldn't walk away from it. I kept returning to it because I just thought, this is going to be frightening. It's going to be challenging.

26:34David Ireland:And I think I might learn something doing this. And if we could get a good ensemble of actors together, which we were so blessed with, because everybody had the same instinct as I did when I read it. It might be quite a lot of fun. And it's quite interesting. I mean, I've been working on it for six months. I still am none the wiser of what this is. That was one of the attractions to it is that I think it's lots of things. I think it's about getting older. It's about marriage. It's about a loss of community. It's about a sense of faith or lack of faith and reason. It's about the urban. It's about the countryside.

27:16David Ireland:It's about, you know, it's a comedy of manners to a certain degree. There's lots of, but it's also frightening and horrific. And it's, so it's, you know, it's an unromantic comedy thriller.

27:32Andrew Lincoln:That's a brilliant description. It is because it is funny, David. I know, you know, your stuff, a lot of your stuff is funny and life is funny, isn't it? But yeah, there's some, you know, whether it's discussion about Fergie being your object of your lust, shall we say, or, you know, Andrew being caught in the shower by his wife, obviously having a fun time, amusing himself. All of these things, there are funny moments all the way through. Is that kind of, is that just naturally how you write? And it's always going to be funny.

28:01David Ireland:Yeah, that tends to be the case. Yeah, I sort of, I know that even if I, I know that even if I write a thriller or a drama, it's going to have funny moments in it. I just seem to be attracted to comedy. And I love writing. I love writing funny stuff, but I don't particularly like writing comedy, which is a weird thing. I don't like writing just straightforward comedy. I always like to sort of mix genres and mixed tones. that's the way it's always been in theatre for me, where I'll take a very serious subject, but just write about it in a funny way, but also make it dramatic. And it's kind of weird to kind of adjust that to TV and make that work for TV is a challenge.

28:43David Ireland:But it's something I really enjoy doing. Yeah.

28:47Andrew Lincoln:And you've got, Andrew, you mentioned the cast and your wife played Bairn Deerah Varma. fantastic always brilliant absolutely brilliant but I love this it felt like a real you talked about it's partly about a marriage and as a kind of a marriage which has been you know you've got kids it's it's well established it's been going it's quite rare to get a depiction of a marriage like that this kind of raw and honest and there's a real honesty to that depiction of marriage don't

29:11David Ireland:you think I agree that was the bit that I kept that's the scene in the shower when she interrupts and she's on her phone and that sort of perfunctory nature of marriage and the fact that you're in and out of each other's, you know, lives so, so intimately and then also missing stuff and absorbing stuff, that sort of familiarity. And that's why it was so lovely to work with Indy because she's an old friend that I've always thought is one of the great actors of this country. And I always wanted to work together. We were at drama school together. she was the year but i knew her way way back from bath since the teenage years so it was such a joy to be married to her and it felt that you know we had that big scene when he's emasculated obviously he can't get it up in bed and you know and that was very early on and it was great to sort of land that scene that sort of seven page you know 10 minute sort of intimate sort of take It was very theatrical.

30:14David Ireland:It's because, you know, David's a brilliant theatre writer, so it has this inherent energy. And so I think we were fortunate that we got extraordinary actors that knew instinctively how to react to the sort of chewiness of the dialogue.

30:32Andrew Lincoln:And David, it strikes me that the two couples at the centre of it, the other couple played by Eve Myles and Ewan Bremner, they are big characters, aren't they? Whereas I feel like the two Central Man characters are very authentic and believable. Whereas you really ratchet it up. It feels to me like you ratchet it up. Especially Eve Miles. She's bonkers, isn't she, her character?

30:52David Ireland:I mean, she's absolutely brilliant. You know, Eve is just fantastic. As the series goes on, she becomes more and more brilliant the more we see of her. And Ewan, you know, is just brilliant. And both of them are very different as well. But they complement each other really well, Eve and Ewan. And yeah, I think at some point I had this realization that it was kind of the series was kind of like a marriage between two good people that was falling apart and a marriage between two very bad people. That was a really strong, good marriage. You know, I find that really interesting that the happy marriage was two people who were, let's say, deeply flawed.

31:36David Ireland:um i find that really interesting it's kind of shakespearean as well you know that they say that um the uh the only happy marriage in shakespeare is the macbeths you know i find that really

31:48Andrew Lincoln:interesting that's brilliant yeah yeah um the show and the show started i should say the show starts with this incredible kind of set this really quite shocking set piece where you know the sudden act of violence that that john sees andrew and it's rare to get i was ready to get opening thing that really is shocking but i found that really disturbing that sequence how was that to shoot and you know um was always the first sequence david by the way yeah it always was and

32:14David Ireland:it was the kind of thing that i would usually start a play with you know um and one of the things i realized about tv is that um the thing is when you've got an audience in a theater you've kind of got them trapped i mean they can walk out but if you put a really violent scene in the first five minutes they're kind of stuck there and then i realized no no people can turn this off you know um so it was like you know it was quite a risk to to make it so violent but and again yeah it was one of those things that when you write it it seems fine but when you see it filmed and when you see it all added and put together it's it's it's really unpleasant you know um but but and i think it's sort of we we learned a lot through the editing process you know and and um there were various changes throughout, you know, everything.

33:03David Ireland:But I think it's completely justified and I think it works really well. It really kickstarts the story. Oh, absolutely, yeah. It's a really important moment. It really is the starting point for the character of John and this journey that he goes on.

33:16Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, because, Andrew, not knowing what to do, I mean, you can't blame him. I felt like, yeah, you know, who knows what to do in that situation? It's an impossible situation, isn't it?

33:25David Ireland:Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think it is a situation that we all would wish to behave in a certain way. And he doesn't. You know, it's like Force Majeure, one of those great movies, or The Slap or whatever. But what's interesting in the structure of the story is that there are other depth charges that this covers, which is really smart that David did about their marriage and about other things. But it all sort of keeps boring down into this one thing about masculinity for him. What I was interested in is, you know, I played this sort of version of a hero for so many years. And this felt like the diametrically opposed other end of the sort of continuum of masculinity.

34:17David Ireland:and he gets everything stripped away from him throughout that first episode. And then the only person that gives him something is the next door neighbour who happens to be a Christian. And it's a really interesting moment that he gets given this gift. And then we go on this mad sort of rollercoaster of this bromance because of this act.

34:42Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, you've been playing a guy who rises to the challenge and this guy does not rise to the challenge.

34:47David Ireland:Yeah, this is a guy that is probably much closer to how I would react. Like most people, what you say is, you know, we all have a version of ourselves. And I think that what's been interesting playing John is that all of these, you know, he's lost. He has a version of himself in the 90s that we all do, that we sort of, the nostalgia of the 90s and what that was for all of us and the people we were then. And age does it too. He's an older man. I love that. Seinfeld, make no mistake, your children are here to replace you. And I think he's got that existential sort of ennui. It's a bit like, I was thinking, it's very pretentious.

35:36David Ireland:I'm just about to, you can buzz me or snip me out of it. But I was thinking if it was a painting, it would be a pop art version of the scream. It's like a Warhol's version. It's all sort of funny and funny, but it's also got this sort of sense of this real sort of guttural scream going on. And I think David's writing has that, you know, and people are searching for direct. You know, you have a Bible group, you have a community, you have a rural community, people leaving a metropolis because of an incident, but maybe because of other things.

36:12Andrew Lincoln:No, that's a brilliant description. I really like the scene, David, where they're in bed and they're talking about Philip Roth. And, you know, John's being quite patronising, let's face it. But that's the kind of scene, I imagine, you can deny this if you want, you know, I don't know, an ITV drama person might put a red line to them and go, what? A discussion of Philip Roth and a prime talk?

36:35David Ireland:Well, I was expecting that too, but there was none of that. There was no censoriousness from ITV. There was no producers at any point said, no, you can't have that or that references to Arch. I mean, there's a joke about, I think in episode three or four, there's a reference to Luther Vandross, which I thought people will, like they will, somebody at ITV will say to cut that because nobody will get that reference. But no, none of that.

37:05Andrew Lincoln:Were you tempted to put in a reference to this life somewhere? I'm talking 90s nostalgia. Could have gone the whole hog.

37:10David Ireland:I think there is. If I recall correctly, there is a lot of 90s nostalgia in the show. There certainly was in the first draft, but I don't remember if it's – because we talked as well a lot about Fight Club as well. You know, like there is a bit of – like me and Andy are obviously of the same generation, so there is a lot of shared cultural references.

37:28Andrew Lincoln:Yeah.

37:29David Ireland:And we were talking about like – Like when I was writing, I was thinking of straw dogs a lot. I love straw dogs and I love any story where a sort of urban man is out of his depth and put in an extraordinarily violent situation like Deliverance and Eden Lake and stuff like that. I love all that kind of stuff. And I think, Andy, you were quite into that stuff as well, weren't you? I loves it. I just think human beings and extremists, which is the sort of kissing cousin of The Walking Dead. I mean, that's essentially the DNA of that show as well. You know, it just happened to be a horror genre version of it.

38:08David Ireland:But I'm really fascinated. I think human beings are fascinated of seeing, you know, under the microscope, how would you act? You know, how would you react if this really was a situation? And it's a beautiful, I sort of wrote to Ewan because I've always admired him. And I said, please come and spend, you know, the summer coercive controlling me and torturing me back in your home, you know, your home country. Please. I would love it. You know, and it was sort of one of those, because he is a sort of shadow version of their twin, their sort of version, their sort of interchangeable.

38:49Andrew Lincoln:Yeah.

38:49David Ireland:You know, and I wanted that idea that they need each other. And there is a sort of love story of sorts because he's offering something that John could never be.

39:00Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, absolutely. There's a hell of a lot of running in this show. I mean, it's like one of those Tom Cruise films where he's running all the time. It was exhausting. Did you have to? Were you a natural runner? How did you prepare for the running?

39:12David Ireland:It's ridiculous. Whenever I wasn't on, there was a B unit going, Andy, we need you to run. You know, it was like any time there was, it was just that Andy's running again. But also I quite liked when my wife was watching it because we've got screeners. And it was interesting because she just was watching it on the way back from Cornwall last night. And she just went with the scene with the deer. She was going deliverance. And then, and she said, darling, it's all right. your flat feet aren't as bad with these scenes wow wow i mean running running all those things

39:48Andrew Lincoln:with flat feet that is that is punishing i really put it out there tom cruise doesn't have to do that no right yeah but it's funny because when i watched the second the running is the is the title sequence as well just to ram it home that you really are running yeah running yeah running away from himself absolutely the other thing that's i mean the scene episode two i won't spoil it but you get very drunk yeah um now drunk acting is tough right that feels like one of the big challenges how did you did you were you a natural but how was that i don't know you tell me i haven't

40:19David Ireland:watched oh it's great it's good yeah i've had a lot of practice boys good yeah it was long hours yeah it was it well it was it was that sort of wild sort of losing oneself in this and that's I mean the deliverance of it all the sort of straw dogs I love I love rural remote communities I'm a big fan of that you know the petri dish of the outsider coming in and what that looks like and the slaughtered lamb and the you're not from around these parts but it was also just that him being you know the the kind of wizard you know the the oberon of his on the lovers in this place you know of you and i loved and him sort of whispering and sort of trying to set me up with the young girl as well just to sort of keep get his talons even further into me yeah but so we wanted it to be funny and but also this sort of losing oneself because of this guilt and i like

41:26Andrew Lincoln:the way david even the kids of the kids let's face it are quite annoying to some of the time they're quite horrible to their poor dad i felt sorry even for sorry for john yeah i just got his thumbs up his thumb up but that's quite bold in itself isn't it to kind of speak well kids can be

41:41David Ireland:really annoying yeah i guess i i've never thought of it like that before i guess they are annoying but I guess it's seeing it from John's perspective, you know, like he's not, he's, he's a stay at home dad and he's resentful about it.

41:56Andrew Lincoln:Yeah.

41:57David Ireland:And he sort of acts like a, like a, like he's making a big sacrifice, but really he, he doesn't enjoy spending time with his kids. You know, he loves his kids, but he finds it for whatever reason, he finds it very, very hard. And I think that's probably something a lot of people can identify with. so yeah again I thought that was just something that was fun to put on screen it was kind of like trying to do create a domestic drama as well as a thriller as well as a comedy and put it all

42:27Andrew Lincoln:into one well I think you have succeeded I have to say it's it is all those things um congratulations and and you finally what's next for you uh I'm going on stage boys oh yeah I know this actually because I wrote a preview of it in in heat yes yeah so I'm I'm working with a

42:45David Ireland:a very interesting and brilliant director called Simon Stone, who I don't know if you saw Yerma, Billy Piper.

42:52Andrew Lincoln:Yes.

42:53David Ireland:Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. And so we're doing the lady from the sea, a version of that. So what he does is he sort of rewrites it with all the same theme with Alicia Vikander and Jonathan McMillan and Gracie and a few, this wonderful cast of, We've done a week's workshop about two weeks ago, three weeks ago, and I start rehearsals proper in about 10 days.

43:21Andrew Lincoln:Wow. When's the last time you're on stage doing it? Well, I did something in COVID at the old Vic.

43:29David Ireland:I played Scrooge. I gave my Scrooge. But I don't know if that counts because there wasn't any audience there, but it was live. Yeah. And it was pretty frightening. so yeah I think that I'm going to say it counts to stop myself from being that nervous

43:48Andrew Lincoln:Fair enough and David for you have you got another play on the cards or another TV show yeah well my play The Fifth Step

43:57David Ireland:is on at the West End at the minute with Martin Freeman and Jack Loudon on it that's about to end I have lots of plays in various stages of development and hopefully he's got an absolute belter that I've read all of them and there's one that is going to be I mean honestly it's so good

44:16Andrew Lincoln:Oh excellent I'm excited about that

44:18David Ireland:I can't say much about that yet though but yeah it should be good Fair enough

44:23Andrew Lincoln:Well congratulations on the show I loved it it's so different and exciting Cheers Andrew Cheers David Thank you

44:29Kay Ribeiro:Thanks boys That was Andrew Lincoln and David Ireland and time now for this week's news What do we have in the world of news Boydie?

44:36Andrew Lincoln:Well let's touch on the National TV Awards shall we? because as alluded to earlier Have you used that in the right way?

44:44David Ireland:Who gives a shit? That's a reference to the listener who got in touch to say we are constantly using the one.

44:51Kay Ribeiro:I think the listener may have alluded to the fact that Boyd does this.

44:54Andrew Lincoln:I now use the word as often as I can just to be in an ironic self-aware manner. Alluding to the winners in last night's national TV awards, as I mentioned earlier I think they're better than usual because sometimes, because it is voted for by members of the public, sometimes people, you know, it ends up being like Mrs. Brown's boys ends up winning over something good, for example.

45:16David Ireland:Slams head on desk.

45:18Andrew Lincoln:Slams head on desk, exactly. So, I mean, there are a few weird ones. But new drama, Adolescence, one. Tick. Absolute tick, yeah, quite rightly. And similarly, in the acting category, the drama performance, young Owen Cooper won for playing Jamie Miller in Adolescence, and he's away filming at the moment. And his colleague, who's in the... Amari. Amari. And he was so sweet, wasn't he? It was so... It was a brilliant moment, James. Before you get completely distracted. So his colleague, who's also in Adolescence, thank you. He's the guy, he's the character in the thing who explains, doesn't he, all about how, kind of how the internet works.

45:58Andrew Lincoln:The emojis. All the emoji codes. Yeah, all of that. Yeah, he explains all of that. So he's got a key role in the show. but he basically he had a message from Owen Cooper on his phone and he literally got it out on his iPhone and played it

46:12David Ireland:I felt so tense with that so I thought please let the audio pick up on his microphone there was a little pause

46:16Andrew Lincoln:but then yeah then they showed him literally on his iPhone giving this thank you speech and that was really lovely little kind of authentic real moment I thought

46:25David Ireland:yeah because he thanked Amari for using his data yes he did for playing it

46:27Andrew Lincoln:that was a brilliant moment and basically the reason why by the way why none of the like Stephen Graham wasn't there and the writer Jack Thorne wasn't there, is because it's the Emmys in America this weekend, I believe. So they had the craft Emmys last weekend.

46:42David Ireland:Wait, wait, wait, wait. They're prioritising the Emmys over the national television.

46:46Andrew Lincoln:Well, shocking. I'm just saying. It is shocking. But I believe that's the reason why. So they had the kind of craft ones in which various awards were given out, including the winner of Best Guest Star in a Comedy, which was all about the studio. Almost all the nominees except for one were from the studio and someone won that. Anyway, I believe this weekend is the primetime Emmys, and I think they're all sticking around for that. Yeah, of course. I may be proof, John, because I haven't double-checked that.

47:13Kay Ribeiro:That's the level of accuracy people come to expect from this podcast. It is absolutely true.

47:17David Ireland:He's the oracle that it will be true. Well, there you go. Listen, you're missing the biggest upset of the night. Come on, go on. Right? Yes. The Ant and Dec Award. Finally, a new recipient of that, right? Gary Bloody Lineker. And I was delighted because, you know, this is, James, Anton Deck have won for 23, I believe 23 years in a row. And finally, for Best Presenter, but this year Gary Lineker won it. And yeah, I was happy to see it.

47:43Andrew Lincoln:Oh, it was brilliant. It was a brilliant moment, yeah. Especially, it kind of flew in the face of all those people who slagged him off in the press for expressing his opinion about stuff. Which, you know, I mean, let's not get into it. Yeah, don't get into it. It's a can of worms.

47:55David Ireland:But he alluded to it.

47:56Andrew Lincoln:He did allude to it, exactly. And I'm going to allude to the fact that I thought his speech was great because he acknowledged, kind of defended himself, I think. He could have ignored it, but it was a heartwarming victory, I think, for him. Absolutely. And the other biggest, most important win of the night, come on, let's face it. In the comedy category, facing down Brassic, Mrs. Brown's Boys, and Michael McIntyre's 25th year stand-up special was Gavin and Stacey.

48:22David Ireland:Deserved winners. Listen, that was another one that made me very tense because I thought Larry Lamb, who was delivering the speech, he mentioned everyone, and I genuinely thought, oh my God, you've forgotten Ruth who's next to you and she kept on looking at him and I thought, please mention it. No, no, no.

48:36Andrew Lincoln:I think he was building up to it and I think what happened was... It wasn't clear though

48:39David Ireland:that he was building up to it.

48:40Andrew Lincoln:But I think they decide who's going to do the acceptance speech. Yeah. Obviously we find it. Because Ruth, do you remember when they were all on stage there was a moment where you weren't sure which of them was going to step on. Ruth was like literally gesturing to him going... The eldest statesman. Yeah, the eldest statesman and you know, we said you should do it and then she chipped him with a little reference later. and of course James is also away James is on Broadway at the moment doing art the play so he wasn't there he couldn't be there but a lovely moment and a kind of reunion of all the main people in fact actually Joe Page wasn't there either but you know or Matt Horne or Matt Horne so in many ways not any of those things not any of the major people there Uncle Brim was there Uncle Brim was there Rob was there Rob Ryden was there hopefully now listen

49:19David Ireland:I just want to mention two more

49:20Andrew Lincoln:go on

49:20David Ireland:because Clarkson's Farm picked up Factory Entertainment which I was delighted about and also and James you'll be particularly uninterested in this Steve McFadden right Phil Mitchell from EastEnders who's been on the show for about 100 years and puts in such a like he is excellent on the show but it's just goes unrecognised for years he finally got an NTA award for serial drama performance and was visibly moved and was very well deserved most important news some would say this week

49:52Kay Ribeiro:is it Francais news no it's not Go on. The White Lotus, La Lotus Blanc, is going to be in France for the next series.

50:02David Ireland:Oh my God, exciting.

50:03Kay Ribeiro:I think just after we recorded last week.

50:04David Ireland:Should I tell you why that's exciting? Because maybe we'll get invited on a set trip because that's not going to be expensive to whiz us over there.

50:10Kay Ribeiro:That'd be fine. Yeah. I mean, as someone who stayed at a White Lotus, you know, I think I'm uniquely positioned to go.

50:16David Ireland:You and Bates.

50:18Kay Ribeiro:One and the same. Actually, we go on holiday together quite a lot.

50:21David Ireland:No, it was the news that Victoria Beckham's Netflix documentary has finally got a date, James. What? Yes, 9th of October. 9th of October, put it in your calendar. What's it about? Victoria Beckham.

50:32Kay Ribeiro:Oh, it's the thing we saw the clip from at the Netflix thing. Yes, it is. Good God, I won't be watching that. Okay, yeah, fine. Super. Were you excited, Kay, to hear that there is going to be a TV series of the video game franchise Life is Strange?

50:47David Ireland:I couldn't contain myself.

50:48Kay Ribeiro:No, I didn't think so. All right, but it's coming from the end of the fucking world writer, so I guess that's a little bit of interest for you. No?

50:55David Ireland:I have to be the end of the fucking world before I watch it.

50:57Kay Ribeiro:Yeah, I think that's about right. What else has happened in the world? There's a Conjuring TV series in the works as well. Conjuring? Which I think we kind of knew that it was happening, but I think they've announced a showrunner and the writers. So Nancy Wan is going to be showrunner of the Conjuring TV series because Conjuring Last Rites, the most recent Conjuring, has done very well, very well actually, at the box office. So I think they're talking about prequel film and there's this TV series. So the Conjuring Last Rites will be anything but last rites.

51:22Andrew Lincoln:The Conjuring, Kay, FYI.

51:24David Ireland:I was hoping for a magic show. It's not going to be that. It's not a magic show.

51:27Kay Ribeiro:It's a Paul Daniels biopic.

51:28David Ireland:Oh, my God. I would love that.

51:30Andrew Lincoln:Who would play Paul and Debbie McGee, I wonder? Well, Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson, clearly. That would be amazing. We thought that was obvious. That would be, do you know what? That's such a brilliant idea. They walk away from the Conjuring franchise, which I was going to say is the most successful horror franchise in history,

51:46Kay Ribeiro:the Conjuring franchise. Which is, and I'm going to say this, it might be controversial, which is amazing considering it's not actually very good.

51:53Andrew Lincoln:No, absolutely. But you know what? I've watched, I think I've probably watched almost every film in the country. And The Annabelle's. I've watched all The Annabelle's. Okay, okay. The Annabelle's are particularly ridiculous. Annabelle's a doll. And the whole thing revolves around the doll being a vicious, maniacal thing that's come to life somehow. And The Nun is basically Marilyn Manson in a habit. Exactly. Lovely stuff on my nightmare. I have sat through, I have sat through more mediocre entries into this franchise than I care to remember. And yeah, I actually really enjoyed the finale one what's it called Last Rites Last Rites which I actually haven't seen it's actually perfectly decent fun and I enjoyed it so it's kind of gone out with a bang and yet it hasn't gone out because there'll be a fucking people in this TV series it's like fucking Downton Abbey they're never going to stop doing this it's like fucking swearing all over the place

52:39Kay Ribeiro:all over the place because yeah why not yeah we wait for the Conjuring the Grand Finale which will be along at some point

52:45Andrew Lincoln:yeah away from Conjuring news though did you see the I think for me this is among the most exciting news of the week apart from Victoria Beckham no yes apart from that apart from Ruth and James writing together this Apple TV show is Lena Dunham next project is with Jeremy O 'Harris and Rafi Donatic and they're all developing a series about intimacy coordination which is a really good subject right great called Sex Act for Netflix and they're eyeing I'm reading out all the because eyeing is a word that's used in variety and all these things they're eyeing Sarah Paulson, the great Sarah Paulson, to star in it as well.

53:25Andrew Lincoln:And I consider that to be an extremely exciting project all round.

53:28David Ireland:That is. Agreed. Second that emotion.

53:31Andrew Lincoln:Thanks.

53:32Kay Ribeiro:Shall we wrap up news at this point, given that we are on the clock? Yes. Let's do it. Let's move on to this week's reviews. And we begin this week with Black Rabbit on Netflix. And this is a mini-series starring Jude Law as a kind of restaurateur, and Jason Bateman as his feckless, gambling addicted brother. Now, this all kicks off with an armed robbery, and then the the show fills in the gaps from there as it kind of depicts the run-ups to that major event. Now, Boydie, I have a faint tickling in the back of my head that you are somehow compromised on this show. Is that true? No. Really? No, but you should get that tickle at the back of your head checked out.

54:05David Ireland:Yeah.

54:06Kay Ribeiro:What tickle? I don't know.

54:08Andrew Lincoln:I feel like you might be compromised in some fashion. Yeah, I don't think I am. I'm trying to wreck my brain. I don't think I've interviewed anyone. I don't think, you know, I've done any special... No, I don't think so.

54:16Kay Ribeiro:Well, anyway, I'm going to turn to Kay regardless. Because that's what his script says. Would you eat at Netflix's Black Rabbit?

54:23David Ireland:I would, although not in the night in question, because as I think you just said, Jude Law is this former rock front man. He's very suave and ambitious, and he's got this restaurant slash club slash whatever, very trendy in Manhattan. When we join him, as he's holding forth, masked armed robbers...

54:44Kay Ribeiro:Ne 'er-do-wells.

54:46David Ireland:Yeah, hold the place up. and it's like catastrophic and very tense and suspenseful, which I have a slight issue with. Then it skips, it goes, flashes back a month. Yeah, of course it does. And you're kind of like, yeah, but my whole issue with this is like, you've seen this most dramatic moment. Like everything's answered in the flashback and it's anticlimactic. It's like you know what it's leading to.

55:10Andrew Lincoln:It's a classic technique, isn't it? You have the big moment of action or whatever and then you flash back to fill in buts.

55:16David Ireland:Yeah, but for example, right?

55:17Kay Ribeiro:What are you thinking, it's egregious? I think there's edging and there's edging. Steady. In this, they show you the exciting event and then you have to sit through a whole episode and then it goes back to that event at the end. You see a little bit more of it and then the next episode, it resets together. So this entire season is just foreplay leading up to this. It's like, I want to know what happens. Big old tease. But I don't want to know what happens enough to sit through however many episodes to find out what happens.

55:44David Ireland:So that's interesting you say that because I sort of felt the same. In that, for example, in the flashback, the whole thing is that he's trying to get this review, prestigious review from the New York Times, blah, blah, blah. Well, this is going to act, I suppose, as a little bit of a spoiler. But in that opening scene, you can tell it's very successful. They've probably got the star review. They want all that kind of stuff. So you're like, why am I having to sit through this when I sort of know where it's going? I sort of know through the introduction of the brother. So the brother is the thing that keeps me interested.

56:13David Ireland:Played by Jason Bateman.

56:14Kay Ribeiro:I'm loving his villain era, by the way. Really enjoying Jason Bateman as kind of like a slightly grubby little character, which he's done a number of times now. Very beardy.

56:22David Ireland:Looks like a twit. One of the twits. He plays Vince, and he is a n 'er-do-well, as you would say, James. A drug addict. He's got a lot of bad men after him, and he gets back in touch with his brother. So almost certainly you sort of make the connection that he's somehow involved in whatever happens in this opening scene. So he's the thing, I think. he's the real draw for me I think like you know Jude Law is great in this and it's very stylish but I don't know I just had I just found it a bit of a slog the flashback yeah

56:55Kay Ribeiro:I must concur

56:58Andrew Lincoln:oh I didn't too I funny enough even though I think to be honest now I feel like because every single elite TV show starts with a thing and then flashes back you know for a whole series or an episode I've been so inured to its effect that I now no longer care.

57:15Kay Ribeiro:It used to be like your bait noir. You used to hate it.

57:18Andrew Lincoln:It still is a bit my bait noir because it's literally the law that they have to do that way with the narrative. So I'm kind of not bothered anymore.

57:26David Ireland:It feels like you've watched the best scene. That's my problem with it.

57:29Kay Ribeiro:Oh, I didn't feel that way at all. If it was like what we do often get in an episode where you see at the beginning it resets, but by the time you get to the end of the first episode, you're back there. That I'm kind of fine with, but don't tease a... Don't make me sit through an entire series to see what happens. And look, I know it can be done well. Wait, is that what's going to happen? Which is great. Yeah, the White Lotus is built around that. That's literally what it does. It's built around that. But there's so much more going on there. But I just, I found, much like Hayden, I found this quite a slog.

57:58Kay Ribeiro:And I do think, you know, this comes back to our old friend Tone, I do think it's quite dour and a bit bleak. And I think part of that was it didn't exactly propel itself with me. I just found it, again, just a little bit hard work getting through it. because everyone's kind of a bit glum and a bit gloomy. And I did watch two episodes of this and just watched the first one. And the only thing that really redeemed it for me is, can we talk a little bit about the music video, please?

58:23Andrew Lincoln:Oh, my God, the music video is incredible.

58:25Kay Ribeiro:Because the Black Rabbit is named after the band they had called The Black Rabbits. Oh, is that in episode two? I haven't seen it. Episode two begins with this music video they've done wearing some extraordinary wiggage. And you've got Jude Lord doing his best Kurt Cobain. And I was just like, I'm watching Spinal Tap. and it was literally the same day that I watched Spinal Tap and I'm like, this is Spinal Tap and it's deranged

58:47Andrew Lincoln:but it's not played for laughs.

58:50Kay Ribeiro:Oh.

58:50Andrew Lincoln:Well, I think it's, I think it slightly is played for laughs. I don't agree. Is it knowing?

58:54Kay Ribeiro:It's definitely, oh, they're supposed to look a bit silly but it's not played for laugh laughs. Like it's not comedy.

59:00David Ireland:Although you would hate it if it was played for laughs.

59:02Andrew Lincoln:It's a tonal shift. It is a tonal shift. For sure. I, do you know, I did not, I really, I was interested enough in the characters. I didn't think it was, I know what you mean. it's kind of glum in some ways but I particularly I think Jason Bateman's character is the one that absolutely keeps it going and Jason Bateman, who I love anyway is such an engaging presence and even though he's obviously been a total twat and he's got all these gangsters on his chasing him for gambling debts and stuff you really kind of feel for him and I was fascinated, I say you, clearly you two weren't but I was fascinated enough in him and his relationship to Jude Law, to his brother, played by Jude Law.

59:44Andrew Lincoln:And I thought Jude Law was really good in that role. Like, Jude Law is very put upon and he's grappling with lots of different things and he's keeping lots of plates spinning, etc. But I like that, that kind of hectic whirlwind of the narrative. And what's interesting, because if you left, a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I was watching this. That's probably why you thought I was in his pocket. I just, I just...

1:00:05David Ireland:He said, if you're expecting the bear.

1:00:07Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, yeah. Because it is on paper. It's the bear. It's literally the bear. but it is a completely different tone it is a much less slick it's a kind of like a rough round the edges kind of tone it's more bleak probably still get nominated for best comedy but there you go probably this is more like the influence on this show I feel are like bleak-ish 70s thrillers like Dog Day Afternoon or something like that it's got that gritty grainy look to it as well which I liked and I just thought it was so it was completely different to the pair it couldn't be more different and so it's completely valid that there are two shows about brothers working in a bar slash restaurant where they need good review from the New York Times is it the New York Times no it's the Chicago time whatever it's called in the bear

1:00:46David Ireland:Tribune is it

1:00:46Andrew Lincoln:yeah so there are incredible similarities but once you watch them they're completely different so I like the fact this was totally different I liked the vibe of it I liked there's other Shopei Dirichu plays Wes who's this kind of like musician slash entrepreneur slash Will.i.am like figure let's say

1:01:05David Ireland:he's cooler than Will.i.am

1:01:06Andrew Lincoln:much cooler than Will.i.am thinks he's cool doesn't he but yeah he's much cooler than Will.i.am I really liked his character as well and you get to see him with his entourage and his absolutely lavish Manhattan apartment and all of that so I just liked the whole and here's the thing an inferior TV reviewer of which none of us are would say that New York is like a character in the show but it does use New York locations beautifully I loved all of that stuff

1:01:36Kay Ribeiro:a canny bit of lampshading there avoid it thank you

1:01:39Andrew Lincoln:there's a lot it just uses New York fantastically well I think so I like that element of it as well

1:01:46David Ireland:when is this set is it early 2000s something like that

1:01:50Andrew Lincoln:isn't it yeah I can't remember I have no idea isn't it isn't it contemporary it doesn't feel

1:01:57David Ireland:I don't think it's

1:01:57Andrew Lincoln:are they using iPhones I'm trying to think I think they are aren't they oh really yeah I think they are it didn't feel super period to me no I think it's fairly and we should say and the gangsters the kind of lead gangster guy is Troy Kotsur from Coda who's very effective in it as well. I thought him and his... He's kind of got like doofus trainee gangsters who are a bit like the ones... Do you remember in Midnight Run there were these absolute idiots who don't know what the fuck they're doing? So even though they're kind of menacing in a way, they're also absolute idiots. So I like the characters.

1:02:25Andrew Lincoln:I like the milieu. I liked the way it was filmed. The mise-en-scene. The mise-en-scene. I like Jude Law. I love Jason Bateman.

1:02:32David Ireland:Ever since you found out White Lotus in France, you two are sure.

1:02:34Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, me oui. I was fully I really enjoyed it I really liked it and I will be watching to the end for sure in fact I'm already kind of halfway through so yeah I'll be watching the rest of it

1:02:45David Ireland:no I'll watch more I'm just yeah

1:02:47Kay Ribeiro:yeah not so much no yeah I'm tapping out sorry oh dear officially tapping out I'm officially tapping out

1:02:53David Ireland:you'll keep me in for a bit longer

1:02:54Kay Ribeiro:there's loads more

1:02:55Andrew Lincoln:geeky sci-fi for you to enjoy

1:02:57Kay Ribeiro:yeah well exactly exactly yes okay that was Black Rabbit on the Netflix which airs when buddy Thursday the 18th of September December 2025. Fabulous. Next up, we have Gen V on Prime. This is the teenage offshoot from The Boys, which I guess you could call a watered-down YA version, except for the wildly explicit violence. So this second season... Oh, it's not toned down at all. No, it has not, no. Come on. It's toned up. This sees the former Guardians of Godolkin return from their imprisonment to find that the campus has become a more terrifying place to be. It's also worth noting that Chance Podomo, who played Andre on the show, Andre Anderson, and he very tragically died last year.

1:03:35Kay Ribeiro:So his character's death is dealt with off screen. But the fallout from that forms another kind of pillar of this season's plot. Now, Kay, I'm not going to inflict this on you. Thank you. Much as it would amuse me.

1:03:45David Ireland:I really wish you'd told me that before I'd had to watch it.

1:03:48Kay Ribeiro:Yeah, well, I could have done. So to tell us about The Boys spin-off, we have The Boyd. Gen V, thoughts?

1:03:55Andrew Lincoln:So you got annoyed, didn't you? And Kay and I had to review Peacemaker behind your back because you were away. we in quotes fucked it up how did we fuck it up? we got it wrong we just got it completely wrong I alluded to wait a minute

1:04:08David Ireland:let me just sound the monster claxing I alluded to

1:04:12Andrew Lincoln:I discussed the fact that that show reminded me of the boys because they both have extraordinary scenes of gratuitous nudity sexual activity violence and swearing and it's definitely like the boys for me had a very similar tone and this is where I'm sure you can correct me but it felt like the boys was doing it in a slightly more kind of satirical and there was slightly more point to it whereas I couldn't really see the point in the piece of having a massive orgy scene in the middle and by the way I don't clutch my pearls it's not a pearl clutching way I love the orgy yeah I love funnily enough there was a lot of pearl clutching in that scene but anyway carry on steady of a different kind yeah so it wasn't for that reason that I wanted that I was slightly bewildered by the orgy scene it was more like what is the it literally seemed to defined gratuitousness to me.

1:05:03Andrew Lincoln:So before we move on, because this is relevant, by the way, to Gen V, because then you get to Gen V, the spin-off from The Boys, which has gone down the route of coming up with set-piece moments of extraordinary excess. I'm trying not to spoil it, but there's something involving some guy's bum and beer. And all I'm saying is... Not just once. There's a lot of bum action in this. There's a lot of bum action and stuff going on there. There always is in The Boys, to be fair. That's what I'm saying. So these shows, all three really, even though obviously Peacemaker, I'm just embroiling Peacemaker in the general chat about this type of superpower, superhero-based, very adult situation shows.

1:05:44Andrew Lincoln:And here's my point. I'll get to my point eventually. They seem to be setting out to shock. Like I felt, this episode of Gem V, right? I could just imagine the writers, and they're all sitting there going, how can we outdo the scene in The Boys when some guy went into another guy's penis and then exploded. How can we do better than that? Yeah, that's the thing that happened. Shut up. Yeah, that's the thing that happened.

1:06:05Kay Ribeiro:Don't even get me started on hero-gasm. Exactly. That's a whole other thing.

1:06:08Andrew Lincoln:They come up with these excessive moments of gratuitousness that are utterly absurd. And yet, I'm in favour of them in theory. But I can literally imagine them going, how can we outdo each other? How can we outdo what we've just seen in The Boys? And then how can Peacemaker go about, you know, outdo what we've just seen in Gen V? and it all seems much of a piece and for me it just kind of like slightly gets in the way of the story so I was fairly engaged with the story of Gen V and then it does throw in these moments that just take you out of it so on the one hand I really enjoy those moments because I quite like the idea of a writer's room full of people trying to outdo each other and go what if he puts this up his bum and then that happens right?

1:06:47Andrew Lincoln:I'm fine

1:06:48David Ireland:Just clip that up please Dan

1:06:49Andrew Lincoln:but in actuality isn't it the very definition of gratuitousness and I look to James here as the expert on these matters Oh the expert on gratuity No, no, I'm more like, am I wrong? Is there like, are they valid?

1:07:01Kay Ribeiro:Oh, that is 100 % what happens on The Boys, yes. Okay. I don't think that's necessarily what happens on Peacemakers. Well, it had more, okay, yeah.

1:07:07Andrew Lincoln:It had more in Gen V. Gen V seemed to want to now catch up with The Boys.

1:07:10Kay Ribeiro:It doesn't. And I don't think it even quite approaches The Boys in terms of sheer just like, what the fuck did I just seen us? It's quite fun though. I like, like Gen V had an interesting kind of mystery at its core the first season. And there's a different mystery of the core of this second season. it's not as good as The Boys but I do feel weirdly if you really like The Boys it's not quite required viewing but it's definitely kind of satellite viewing like there's a lot of crossover Homeland is in this Starlight's in this The Deep is in this so they do and the stories do intertwine and as it's evolving as we're going towards the final season of The Boys it feels like this feeds into it so I do feel like it's actually probably not a bad thing to watch if you really like The Boys but I think it's very entertaining I think they're really fun characters I do enjoy like the mad excess of it and yes and this week in particular obviously it's quite pointed what's happening on American university campuses but you know there's a lot of there's a lot of like you know commentary and satire in this show as well it's not quite as I think a broad canvas as the boys but I like what they're doing with it

1:08:11David Ireland:did you not find the set pieces to be silly?

1:08:15Andrew Lincoln:I mean they are silly yeah I guess that's a good question that's what I was alluding to yes

1:08:20David Ireland:well I'll say it literally I'll literally just say it because you have often have issue with silly moments. I mean, like, you know, blood squirting out from every orifice, including, you know.

1:08:30Andrew Lincoln:Oh, and exploding people, like, exploding heads, people exploding blood with CGI blood has been going on since season one of The Boys, and this carries that tradition on fully. Yeah, but yeah, it's a good question.

1:08:42Kay Ribeiro:I think it's pretty consistent within its own world, and it's tonally quite similar to The Boys in that regard. The Boys definitely has an absurdity to it, though it just stays it's just colours within the lines of its own sort of rules where it's believable and you don't quite it's believable within its own universe and I kind of I can get away with it yeah I don't mind it I don't mind but I know what you mean like this is definitely a show that for me could go either way but it just about colours inside the lines

1:09:12David Ireland:we know now James' ciliometer yeah exploding bums yeah and blood squirting out fine but you know the odd like pratfall absolutely unacceptable no

1:09:22Andrew Lincoln:it's very good yeah a harmless bit of fun slapstick oh my god no this is horrific can't be dealing with it

1:09:30David Ireland:shut it down

1:09:30Kay Ribeiro:cancel it well we're going to get into this with the next review as well so no oh yes oh god so yes we can chat about that in a minute but yeah I enjoyed Jamming it's not a patch on the boys it isn't but it's a fun watch I watched the whole of the first season I watched the whole of the second season I've seen I think three episodes of this

1:09:48Andrew Lincoln:it does actually tap into by the way the thing that's going on in America right now, one might say, which is the incredible extremes in politics. Like, you know, you almost have to fall into one or other group of extremists. Polarization. Yeah, the polarization. Well, this is supes versus normies. Yes, yes. What did you say? Supes versus normies. That's the polarity. Superheroes versus normal people.

1:10:10David Ireland:Got it. Got it.

1:10:11Kay Ribeiro:Like James versus us.

1:10:14David Ireland:Us being the super heroes, yeah?

1:10:16Kay Ribeiro:Yeah. Okay, we are running rapidly out of time, so let's just say Gen V is available on Prime Video.

1:10:21Andrew Lincoln:Wednesday the 17th of September 2025.

1:10:24Kay Ribeiro:Super. Finally this week, we have series two of Juice on BBC3. And this is Mawana Rizwan's somewhat surreal comedy, also starring Nabhan Rizwan and Russell Tovey, and follows Jama, and he is a complete idiot. And it basically follows him as he tries to navigate work and relationships, and in this episode, nipple-centric artwork, which is lovely. Kay.

1:10:44David Ireland:Yes.

1:10:45Kay Ribeiro:Has this got the juice?

1:10:47David Ireland:It has. this is my jam your jammer in fact well I mean James come on oh sorry did I just trample

1:10:53Kay Ribeiro:a love of your joke oh wow

1:10:55David Ireland:you sort of explained it best I did sorry it's all good I've gone full partridge

1:11:01Kay Ribeiro:yeah

1:11:02David Ireland:I've always really enjoyed it as you say I find it joyfully surreal I know what's coming from you so I'm just going to like ignore you and your facial expressions right now it's always best

1:11:13Andrew Lincoln:to just ignore it generally best when it comes to comedy yeah generally best

1:11:16David Ireland:one I think is a genius He won a BAFTA for this and it is so incredibly inventive and fun and surreal. I just want to spend, I was going to say, I want to spend like an hour in his brain and some would say this is the result. This is half an hour in his brain. But outside of TV because it must just be a fantastic place to reside. I enjoy, so Jammer now, as you say, he's like, he's directionless. He is literally a clown or as he calls it, an event entertainment facilitator.

1:11:45Kay Ribeiro:And I'm already saying like Mawana Rishwan literally did clown training. Like, that's actually something that he's done. Because he's just drawn from his own experiences. Oh, my God, amazing.

1:11:53David Ireland:Okay, I didn't know that, which adds to my enjoyment of it. And Guy, his ex, played by Russell Tovey, he's now moved on from flighty, immature men, and he's writing a book. And when the first episode, so I think it's shown in a double bill, isn't it? The first? Yes. Yeah. The first episode, they meet again. And for me, I just think these two, like, Mouane and Russell, have such a fantastic chemistry. That is like, I mean, beyond the creativity, it's that element of it, because you know I love a bit of relationship drama. The tender looks and the chemistry between them, I cannot get enough of it, right?

1:12:32David Ireland:But also it's just the fun elements. So episode two, there's a nod to 80s American sitcoms. Jammer imagines his life through that lens. I just love it. I find it really funny. and particularly there's a moment in the first episode where it involves a paint pot, drinking out of a paint pot in the kitchen episode, in the scene, which I think just highlights Mwan's excellent comic timing and Russell's reaction shots.

1:13:00Kay Ribeiro:I'm just going to say my piece, Boydie. You go ahead, mate. You say what you need to say. He's deployed, mate. I don't like this show. I don't like it and I don't find it funny. But, but, and frankly when this started, and it starts with a very surreal running sequence which is quite painterly because all of this is like his inner life kind of spills out into the world around him and everything becomes very surreal. There's a bit where he dives into a sofa and goes into a weird sofa universe. And it's just, I mean, for me, it's just too silly. That's the line, incidentally.

1:13:27David Ireland:Exploding bums, fine.

1:13:28Kay Ribeiro:Yeah, exactly. If there had been an exploding bum, I'd been all over it. But all of that said, I think Moana Rizwan is a great physical comedian and I think he writes it really well but there's also heart to that character. I also think watching this there's nothing else like it on television. like it feels very distinct and original and I do absolutely applaud that I was not enjoying this at all until a point about halfway through the episode when your friend Russell Tovey turns up and I think it's exactly as you said those two on screen together are electric and it's the eye contact and the little sort of like cues between them the glances is a bit where there's some other guy at the party there's a look there and I was despite myself tittering away to myself and then there's a whole shall we say love sequence after that that on paper I would not enjoy, but really I thought it was so well conceived and executed that I was just like, I don't like this show, but I really do appreciate that it's very well made.

1:14:23Kay Ribeiro:And actually, while it isn't 100 % for me, you know, comedy-wise, they're very good, and I think those two on screen together are fantastic. They're dynamite. Isn't it like his mum's in it as well? Like, it's a family affair, and I love his dynamic with his brother in it. I do think the character stuff works very well, and if I was on board with this kind of surrealist slapstick humour, I think I'd really enjoy it. But because I am a shallow, soulless husk of a humourless person, I did not.

1:14:47David Ireland:But that's a good point you raise, because it's so well executed. Yes. And that's the thing, because there could be inferior performers or production companies that this would have just not been as much of a success. But yeah, they carry it off very well. With aplomb.

1:15:03Andrew Lincoln:Oh, I mean, it's brilliantly done. Yeah, it looks like the budget of a show, a hundred times more expensive than this. The flights of fantasy are brilliantly done. It's all dramatizing stuff going on inside his head. So I think, I mean, let's not get into it. Though you not liking it is so, like, it's not really slapstick. There are slapstick moments, but it will utilize any and every comedic method in the creator's arsenal, shall we say. And that, in my opinion, is the best thing about it. is that, as you said, in the second episode, it's suddenly utilised this American sitcom kind of form in a really interesting way.

1:15:44Andrew Lincoln:It's got these visually, it's astonishing, there are these visual kind of coups that happen that are just beautifully well done. Look at James' face.

1:15:52David Ireland:Basically, this is the best kind of film in the dream.

1:15:55Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, but when it comes down to it, it's about these people and their lives and their relationships. As you say, the Russell Tovey character guy, who is the therapist, and he's such a mature daddy, in his mature daddy era. And because Mawain's character is so childish and childlike, it's that contrast that works so brilliantly and is so kind of believable. And now his brother is trying to become an artist with the pictures of the nipples and denying their nipples. There's obviously nipples, all of that. So you get a little peek into the art world of pretentious art people as well, which adds a whole load to the comedy.

1:16:28Andrew Lincoln:It's just a fantastic achievement, I think. You know, particularly when you consider, this must be on some kind of BBC, but obviously I'm massively biased because I know, Russell I'm going to launch of it tonight of course at the yeah at the Curzon whichever one it's in so yeah it's a fabulous show

1:16:43David Ireland:also I just want to give a shout out to Jammer's helmet hair as well

1:16:47Andrew Lincoln:Jammer's hair is extraordinary yes I mean remember they came on the Pilot TV Live podcast of course as well Friends of the Pod yeah and I think Mawarren talked about how he wrote himself having this ridiculous haircut and now can't get rid of it it's become too entwined with the character it's an extraordinary

1:17:05Kay Ribeiro:kind of bowl cut that he wears it's brilliant yeah juice then BBC3 and iPlayer Thursday

1:17:12Andrew Lincoln:Thursday Thursday 18th of September 9 o 'clock as you say double bill and then it's all on the iPlayer from that day indeed

1:17:17Kay Ribeiro:also out this week we of course have the morning show which airs on Apple TV Plus on Wednesday and we're going to be reviewing that on Pilot Plus Tulsa King returns that's on Paramount Plus and that turns up on Sunday the 21st is there anything else this week?

1:17:31Andrew Lincoln:yeah there's a new show called Doc on Sky Witness us slash now which is a new medical american medical drama series starring molly pogger from out of deadwood high potential season two is on disney plus from wednesday bring it on which we reviewed season one i think we all liked it quite a lot um and 40 towers the play james do you remember that i did we went to see it we did when you didn't invite me yeah well the good news k is you can see it now because they filmed it and it's going to be on you and gold on friday at nine 10 o 'clock. Yeah.

1:18:01David Ireland:It's the 50th anniversary of the first airing of Fawlty Towers.

1:18:05Kay Ribeiro:Do you know what's just happened, Boydie? What? You have recommended a TV show and I'm live now on the podcast adding it to my list. How exciting is it? What, Fawlty Towers? Yeah. You saw it.

1:18:15David Ireland:I saw it on stage.

1:18:15Kay Ribeiro:I want to watch it again on telly.

1:18:17Andrew Lincoln:Yeah, fair enough.

1:18:18David Ireland:I honestly cannot figure this guy out.

1:18:20Andrew Lincoln:Oh, I know. He's in the... I'll be watching it as well.

1:18:23David Ireland:No, I will as well. But there's just no rhyme or reason to what he says.

1:18:28Kay Ribeiro:I'm inscrutable.

1:18:29David Ireland:Do you know what? This is juice. We're living it now. Like, in his mouth.

1:18:33Kay Ribeiro:Mad fantasy sequence. Void is actually made of cake. Fever droop.

1:18:37David Ireland:If only. True story.

1:18:40Kay Ribeiro:Okay, right, what's our pick of the week? Juice.

1:18:44David Ireland:Yeah, juice.

1:18:45Kay Ribeiro:It's Gen V for me. Of course it is.

1:18:48David Ireland:Of course it is. The man who loves an exploding bum.

1:18:51Kay Ribeiro:I do. I do love an exploding bum. Flip that bit. Amazing. Right, that's it for this week's podcast. If you don't already, please do follow us on social media. and follow me on TikTok and Instagram Matt James C. Dyer thank you very much see my holiday videos

1:19:03David Ireland:I've had more than one message going wait is James really on TikTok and I was like yes yes he is

1:19:08Kay Ribeiro:yes find me there

1:19:10David Ireland:how is the influencing going?

1:19:12Kay Ribeiro:not well but the best I don't know

1:19:16David Ireland:I'm tempted to now get the app just so I can follow you

1:19:19Kay Ribeiro:I am influencing precisely no one but I want the followers so please do come follow me

1:19:22David Ireland:his ego needs the followers please jump on board

1:19:25Kay Ribeiro:and do you leave us a five star rating on whatever platform you should choose we would appreciate that very much on next week's show we are going to have Christopher Chung Roddy Ho himself on the show talking to Boydie and that's exciting because that means yes you guessed it Slow Horses is back on Apple TV Plus and we will hopefully be reviewing that if the embargo allows it other things that are on Stephen Knight's House of Guinness will be arriving on Netflix Wayward is also arriving on Netflix a lot of things going on this week yeah that's right friend of the pod

1:19:52David Ireland:The Hack what about that

1:19:54Kay Ribeiro:yeah

1:19:54David Ireland:Hacks on

1:19:56Kay Ribeiro:Hacks on Hacks off and the savant oh yes the savant apetite plus that's Jessica Chastain is that how you say it? the savant the savant savant you say potato I say potato you say henry

1:20:09David Ireland:I say henry

1:20:09Kay Ribeiro:yeah that's true right that is it we are done for this week I'm going to head off home a 25 minute walk ahead of me I'm going to have to steal myself

1:20:17David Ireland:watch your back

1:20:18Kay Ribeiro:pilot's out