Chad Powers, Frauds, and How Are You? It’s Alan (Partridge). With Guests Jessica Chastain & Nnamdi Asomugha and Tom Blyth

3:32Tom Blyth:Which is fabulous. Who are these lovely people who gave us these balls? I don't know, they're the Little Moons people. Oh, right, okay. I don't know, they were just upstairs. Me and Boydie and Steph, though slightly later, were walking to the studio and we were running late and I immediately turned around and he was like, you're not queuing for ice cream. I went, I am absolutely queuing for ice cream. and that's why we're even later.

3:52Nnamdi Asomugha:Minorities. Yeah.

3:53Tom Blyth:Okay.

3:54Nnamdi Asomugha:Skin covered, some sort of skin covered ice cream balls. Mochi balls. Is that what they're called? Mochi. I think so. Is that the right pronunciation? I don't know. Okay, well.

4:02Tom Blyth:We'll say yes. Okay. What have you been watching, Steph?

4:05Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, I've been watching, oh, wow, the morning show, obviously.

4:09Tom Blyth:Oh my God. How many have you seen?

4:11Nnamdi Asomugha:Well, I've only seen one because it's on every Wednesday. Oh, okay.

4:14Tom Blyth:So I thought you dived into the screen site like me and Boydie. Obviously, I've been watching them a lot longer than Boydie because I got sent them much earlier than him.

4:21Nnamdi Asomugha:I don't listen. Stop spoiling your eyes. It's really enjoyable to watch. At least have one thing in your life that you watch on a weekly basis.

4:29Jessica Chastain:They've withheld the finale, so I still haven't seen the finale. No, but if you're reviewing a show, what you're basically saying, we reviewed it last week, and what you're basically advocating is we watch as little of it as possible to judge it. Do you see what I mean? That context.

4:42Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, I can see what you're saying, but what I'm saying is I'm not involved. I wasn't involved in that review. So for me, as a POG, person on the ground I like to have a show that I don't feel the intense pressure to immediately step till four o 'clock in the morning and finish just so I can talk about it okay I think I just you know we are not granted

5:01Tom Blyth:that luxury unfortunately well alright

5:05Nnamdi Asomugha:you're really ruining this for me you really are I was going to say I'm watching the morning show and I'm really I'm really happy I'm really enjoying it I am very happy with all the characters where they are how they're coming back I love Reese Witherspoon even Corey

5:19Jessica Chastain:I love Corey.

5:20Tom Blyth:You and Kay both. No, no, no, no. It's fine to love Corey because Corey used to be the best character. He's just now utterly superfluous.

5:27Nnamdi Asomugha:Why do you think that?

5:28Tom Blyth:Because they have nothing to do with it.

5:31Jessica Chastain:He's doing the movie. He's doing the movie. We're not... Yeah, we discussed this a bit last week, but we don't want to be ourselves. No, don't want to. Why follow this character doing what he's doing? It's not connected enough to the main story.

5:43Tom Blyth:Because people love him.

5:44Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, but that's the problem.

5:45Tom Blyth:And you're having the same problem with him if you have with, I don't know, like Ron Perlman in Sons of Anarchy, where it's a great character whose arc concludes, but they keep him around because they like him.

5:55Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm going to kind of agree with you, actually. I've watched one, but then I thought, oh, he's going to join because they have the call. He has the call with Alex at the end of it. And she's like, we're overdue a meeting, don't you think? And then you think, oh, okay, he's coming back into it. But if you're telling me he's not going to come back into it, then...

6:11Tom Blyth:Well, no, he does come back into it. But equally, you feel like he doesn't need to be there. And I think that's a shame. I wrote the review of this for Empire Magazine. I gave it three stars and said it was a very disappointing series of the morning show. But I also said, even though it's a very disappointing series of the morning show, it's still the morning show and it's incredibly addictive. So I very much enjoyed it. And I will watch the next season as well. And I don't regret any of the nine hours I've ploughed into it so far.

6:34Nnamdi Asomugha:But you haven't watched the finale?

6:36Tom Blyth:I haven't seen the finale. So who knows what that will do. But I do need to take issue with a certain, checks note, Boyd Hilton, who wrote the review for the morning show season two. famously the worst series of the morning show. No, I totally disagree.

6:49Nnamdi Asomugha:We've had this conversation before. Why do you think it's so bad?

6:53Tom Blyth:Well, let's pause why I think it's so bad because I know for a fact that Boydie has mentioned many times how bad it is and yet gave it four stars in the official Empire review.

7:01Jessica Chastain:Well, yeah, but I can't remember. I mean, first of all, as we've established, it might have been not as good as season one at that point, but it didn't mean that, you know, it was absolutely not worth watching because it was still really, as you said about this season still really entertaining and you know watching it I don't know I can't remember how many episodes have I seen? I don't know how many episodes have you seen? sometimes it says on the reviews

7:26Tom Blyth:we tend to put on the reviews how many episodes you've seen for some reason he's scarily reading back

7:30Jessica Chastain:my old reviews I'm cyber stalking Boyd stalking yeah

7:34Tom Blyth:so yeah I don't know what the context I do this it's how I spend my evenings I read old things Boyd has written in case I can then use it to beat him with yeah

7:42Nnamdi Asomugha:okay well you should just do more gaming is what I would say

7:45Tom Blyth:you know this is a game to me Steph oh Jesus but okay but all of that aside you watch the morning show you're having a good time what else are you watching

7:52Nnamdi Asomugha:oh so I just watched I see it's a crime thing so if you followed Serial probably one of the original and best podcasts ever yeah okay they have got a fifth part to the case against Adnan Syed a TV show though so they did the TV show case against Adnan Syed and they've done episode five of that which follows his release I don't, like, we know he got released. We know why he, if you go fully into the case, you'll understand why he's still a convicted criminal. He's spent 27 years or whatever.

8:25Tom Blyth:So did he finish his sentence and got released?

8:27Nnamdi Asomugha:No.

8:28Tom Blyth:He got paroled?

8:29Nnamdi Asomugha:No, no, you have to watch it. Can't you just tell me? No, no, no, it's really good. And it's really interesting how the technicalities of why he was released. But he's still convicted.

8:39Tom Blyth:He's still considered guilty.

8:41Nnamdi Asomugha:Yes. So the case basically centres around kind of prosecutorial misconduct. Right. And if that case was tried now, would he be convicted? But I don't want to give too much advice. It's so worth the watch. And it's really, really interesting from an American justice point of view and how flawed that justice system is. It's brilliant. It's really, really good. Please watch it. It's on one of the Sky Tunnels, which I can't remember, but I'm going to find out now.

9:07Jessica Chastain:I think it's on Sky Documentaries. Sky Dogs. Because there's a documentary. But it could be on Atlantic. I say that, but I have recently, as James... Have you watched it? No, no, no. But I've assigned programs to the wrong channel on this podcast. Okay. I say it's a Sky documentary. I haven't made that up, but I'm pretty sure it is.

9:23Tom Blyth:I would love someone from Sky to give us the cheat sheet as to what makes a show appear on what channel. There must be some overarching rule-based system that determines where it goes.

9:34Nnamdi Asomugha:If it has so much of this or so much of that, then it goes on.

9:36Jessica Chastain:I don't think the rules are that clear. No? To be honest, yeah. I think they just kind of decide in a lot of cases. I mean, that's, yeah.

9:41Tom Blyth:Well, if the CEO of Sky is listening, please do let us know. We'd really, really, we'd really like to know.

9:47Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, that's really well worth a watch. But did you listen to, obviously you must have listened to Serial. Of course, yeah.

9:51Jessica Chastain:But I haven't, sorry, I did a real lip smack there, which is, you know, my fault. But... What with them being your lips. Yeah. But I listened to that Serial, of course, but I haven't really followed the case since then.

10:04Nnamdi Asomugha:It's such an unbelievable... Because obviously the Serial case, which is a case, if you don't know, of a young high school student called Adnan Syed who was accused, arrested, charged and convicted of killing his high school sweetheart, Hayman Lee, a beautiful girl called Hayman Lee. I won't go into the details of how she was killed and how her body was found, but it's a fascinating case that was taken on by Sarah Koenig and she did this unbelievable podcast. How many parts is that podcast, Boyd? Do you think it's eight? Oh, I don't remember.

10:37Jessica Chastain:Loads. 8, 10, 12 one of those I think more than 8 if you haven't listened to that

10:41Nnamdi Asomugha:original serial podcast that's one of the best podcasts you'll ever listen to didn't she

10:45Jessica Chastain:Sarah Kearney kind of established in many ways like the style of true crime podcast she absolutely did right down to having the vocal fry which we discussed years ago do you remember yeah she talks like slightly kind of like crackly yeah guttural crackly voice she's a trailblazer yeah an absolute trailblazer she's an absolute trailblazer

11:04Nnamdi Asomugha:but the case I mean since that podcast came out i mean the case has obviously rumbled and he's only was released last year so it's it's absolutely fascinating and there is one fascinating thing in it that i must reveal that one piece of new evidence that came out is the person that found hayman lee's body in the woods um was a convicted flasher okay and at the time he was never looked into properly it just randomly happened to be this person who was constantly walking around naked flashing himself to people and they didn't think that it was slightly coincidental that he would also be the person who found a young girl's dead body in the woods.

11:48Nnamdi Asomugha:He was never seen as anything other that's just, oh, he's just the person who's found the body.

11:51Tom Blyth:But that's Bob the Flasher.

11:52Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, but that's explored in this. That's interesting. I didn't know that.

11:56Tom Blyth:I've listened to, I'd never finished Zero to be fair, but I listened to part of the first season before realising I don't like true crime podcasts.

12:02Nnamdi Asomugha:But do you know what? I think that's the true crime podcast for people who don't really like to try. Oh, it's good. It is.

12:06Tom Blyth:It is really good. But I think also... I'm going to say it, guys.

12:08Nnamdi Asomugha:It's storytelling. It is. It is good storytelling.

12:10Tom Blyth:But I think I knew maybe a little too much about the case by the time I listened to it because I came to it quite late. And I think it already... So much had been said about it, I thought, I know a lot of this now because I've kind of been exposed to it. No, pun intended. But, yeah, and so I didn't... Yeah, I didn't press on with it. Sorry.

12:25Nnamdi Asomugha:That's okay. It's on the sofa list. Yeah, okay, fine. You should though. Is it really though? No, it's not. It's really good. Really, really good.

12:33Tom Blyth:Okay, it's good. Good recommendation.

12:35Nnamdi Asomugha:Thank you.

12:37Jessica Chastain:Boydie. My first thing that I'll be watching is also True Crime. Oh. Yeah. Oh, look at Steph. She's so excited. I am. I think this will excite you because it's actually a film slash, no, it's a TV show that's on Channel 4 on this coming Monday. that weirdly I saw it at a screening this week and it was presented as a film but Channel 4 for some reason they're calling it a two part series but they're showing both parts one after the other so it's a film

13:06Tom Blyth:with an ad break

13:06Jessica Chastain:oh my god this is like a whole

13:10Nnamdi Asomugha:new problem for the film TV thing it feels like you are can I just say I wasn't bringing it up

13:14Jessica Chastain:to rile James or anything but I'm just saying factually that's how it was consumed it was presented as a documentary film made for Channel 4. Anyway, Channel 4 is airing it Monday and it is Conviction, The Case of Lucy Letby. Yes, it's the, well, it's the third documentary on the Lucy Letby case within a couple of weeks. There was one on ITV1.

13:36Nnamdi Asomugha:I've not heard of this.

13:37Jessica Chastain:Yeah, there's one on ITV.

13:38Nnamdi Asomugha:No, we had a discussion about it. We had a big discussion about it last time I was on.

13:42Jessica Chastain:So ITV had their one a few weeks ago.

13:45Nnamdi Asomugha:Panorama.

13:46Jessica Chastain:Panorama had their one kind of the week after the ITV one. And that Panorama one And actually, it's like the third episode they've done on Lucy Rugby, by the way. And now here's Channel 4's one, which is created by Blast Films, made by Blast Films. And it was introduced by Tanya Winston, who is my friend Ben Winston's sister. Ben Winston recently appointed as non-executive director at Arsenal Football Club. Thank you.

14:14Nnamdi Asomugha:Well done, Ben. Congratulations to you. Thank you.

14:16Jessica Chastain:Living legend Ben Winston. and Tanya is the producer of the show and they had a Q &A with the director and other producer after the screening. And it's a two-hour long film effectively being shown as two one-hour documentaries on show for anyway. But I thought even though, so I was partly like, you know, I was invited by Tanya to go and see it.

14:34Nnamdi Asomugha:I can't believe you didn't invite me to go and see this.

14:37Jessica Chastain:Yeah, I just didn't. Want to? I didn't have a plus one for a start. It was actually packed as well. I bet it was. It was absolutely jam-packed at the Curzon West End.

14:45Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh.

14:45Jessica Chastain:It was genuinely fascinating. And what is incredible was I thought, oh, you know, I'd actually seen the panorama and the ITD. You thought you couldn't learn anymore. And I thought I couldn't learn anymore, but actually you do. Oh, really? Yeah, there are details. And what it does is it's kind of presented as the guy who led the prosecution expert panel, who's this Welsh guy.

15:09Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, yeah.

15:09Jessica Chastain:He is like the main kind of, if you like, star of the show on the prosecution side. And then on the defence side, there's her new lawyer who's taking charge of the appeal, sending it to the case review panel who review cases if there is alleged extra new evidence, which obviously, Lucy, let me side saying there are. So these two kind of like almost like opposing forces, these two kind of quite strikingly, I was going to say media savvy, but certainly media open to scrutiny men are presented and they kind of cut between the two of them as they present their own views on the case. And then they also have, even more interestingly, they have a couple whose child is affected, I won't explain it fully, but whose child was affected by the case.

15:57Jessica Chastain:And that's really fascinating how that plays out.

15:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, because I feel like that hasn't been done so much, has it? No, no, exactly.

16:04Jessica Chastain:That's the element that feels most new and interesting. They will put it this way, they dealt with Lucy Letby. I won't say much more because you need to see her. Anyway, I found it fascinating. But what was extraordinary about it was the feelings are so fraught about this case. It's so divisive. People on either side are so angry. during the screening right this is absolutely people were shouting at the cinema shouting out loud I can believe it so when the Welsh guy comes on and says his stuff people were shouting at him telling him to like fuck off basically and then so then people started shouting at the person shouting because it was interrupting our viewing of this film of this documentary they're aware that it's

16:44Tom Blyth:a one way medium right well I know you know what

16:47Nnamdi Asomugha:it's so as a case it's so incredibly divisive in terms of sometimes when we get new obviously there's been a lot of new Lucy Letby details that have come out. And I really think hard about whether to put her on the cover of Crime Monthly, my magazine, James, because I do think some people will just not go, I'm not, I don't, this is what I think about Lucy Letby. I don't want to know anymore. This is my opinion. And people either are very, very much like, she's guilty, she's evil, or she absolutely is an innocent woman in prison. and there's no, I feel like there's absolutely no discussion to be had between people.

17:28Nnamdi Asomugha:Although I am kind of in the middle of the ramp.

17:29Jessica Chastain:I am too, but we... I think the evidence is dodgy and how it was presented was bad and it was really bad that the prosecution didn't call any of their own expert witnesses. There's just big controversies surrounding this case. They deliberately chose not to for various reasons, but I still think she could be guilty.

17:45Nnamdi Asomugha:Well, this is the problem with the case. This is exactly the problem. Like, you know, a lot of these things, like, there's lots been made of, like, the shift rotors and then people were like, yeah, because she worked there. She was there all the time because she worked there.

17:57Jessica Chastain:And then the list of shifts, sorry, James, we're really getting into the detail now. No, no, this is fascinating. But the list of her shifts were built for the list of babies that had been affected, that had been, that died, basically. So yeah, of course, you're self-selecting the list in which she was working. Anyway, but it was really, the actual experience of watching it in a packed cinema with these people who were so invested in it, they're shouting at the screen, was extraordinary.

18:22Nnamdi Asomugha:And who was it? Was it like reviewers? Was it media people in that screen?

18:25Jessica Chastain:Yeah, it was like, yeah. Media people are yelling at the screen. That's quite unusual. No, no, no, it wasn't only media people. Okay, I was going to say. I think there were people who followed the case as well. Yeah, who had... Because I think you could, I'm not sure. You were like Peter Bradshaw threw a chair. It was extraordinary. No, Peter Bradshaw threw a chair. But Dr. Phil Hammond, who has been writing about it every fortnight in private, he was there, and he's actually one of the on-screen contributors as well. So it was like people, Phil Hammond, and his associates of his, or people who've just, you know, managed to get hold of things.

18:54Jessica Chastain:I don't know. Maybe they're invited as well. And they were random ones from there. I'm not saying they were Phil Hammond's friends, by the way. But they were random people shagging the screen. It was astonishing.

19:04Nnamdi Asomugha:That's amazing.

19:05Jessica Chastain:So I do urge people to watch it. So when is that on? Monday. Well, today, in fact, as we go out on Monday, aren't we? Yeah. Feel free to shout at your telly. Tonight, Channel 4, 9 o 'clock. It is genuinely interesting conviction, the case of Lucy Letby. Then I've also been watching, because we're not reviewing it, because it's a packed week, but the season three of Blue Lights arrives also tonight at 9 o 'clock, so you're going to have to record one and watch the other, I'm afraid. But I think in this day and age, I think we can do that. You can do that. Technologically, can't we? You don't have to worry.

19:33Jessica Chastain:You can watch Blue Lights on the iPlayer whenever the fuck you want.

19:36Nnamdi Asomugha:Or dual watch, you know. If you feel, get your iPad out, get your phone out, have a new TV, triple watch, do whatever you can.

19:43Jessica Chastain:All I'll say about the Blue Lights, But it is, I think, the most kind of pacey, thrilling, brilliantly plot-driven, and yet also reflecting the characters of the characters since Line of Duty. It's got a real Line of Duty vibe for me. It's got that kind of propulsive narrative style. Every single scene is working to advance the story, or at the very least to show us how the characters have advanced since we last saw them. It's brilliantly done. It feels incredibly authentic all the way through. And I really loved it, yeah. That's very high on my sofa list at the moment, by the way. Oh, good, good.

20:17Jessica Chastain:And there's new characters in this series. But one played, Michael Smiley, who's having a real renaissance. I love Michael Smiley and everything. He's brilliant. He's in this as a kind of senior officer whose job it is to find undercover, people to go undercover in Northern Ireland. And he's brilliant. He's just been in Alien Earth, which I'm going to get to in a minute. By the way, I'm going to get to in a minute, listeners. And I love him. He's so good in everything, and he's brilliant in this. And Kathy Tyson is in it as well. Do you remember Kathy Tyson? she's fantastic as well this woman who runs a kind of private members club in the middle of Belfast and deals with various criminal oh my god

20:51Nnamdi Asomugha:I need to watch this

20:52Jessica Chastain:it's brilliant have you not seen any blue lights oh you've got I mean come on crime

20:55Nnamdi Asomugha:I know but you know I have to spend a lot of time watching like shit on Disney why don't you watch good stuff on BBC yeah but like I tell you you know how many times I've watched K-pop Demon Hunters and like you know Gracie's always like can we watch High School Musical for the seventh time today

21:09Tom Blyth:Gracie Alien Earth is on could we maybe watch that instead we need to get into something else

21:13Jessica Chastain:so there's that I strongly recommend Blue Lights. House of Guinness, which we didn't have time to review House of Guinness because we've had so much new stuff and it was heavily embargoed.

21:21Tom Blyth:Poor Man's Peaky Blinders was the summation of the Empire review of that.

21:23Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, really?

21:24Jessica Chastain:I have issues with it, I have to say.

21:27Nnamdi Asomugha:What are your issues?

21:28Jessica Chastain:My issues are that Poor Man's Peaky Blinders is not unfair and it's also a bit succession-y but not like a poor man's succession as well because you've essentially got, it's all about the head of the Guinness family back in the 19th century dies and his offspring are kind of battling with each other over, you know, the inheritance, etc.

21:51Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you think people should stop trying to make the new succession?

21:53Jessica Chastain:I don't think it's that. I don't think they've set out to make the new succession because let's face it, there are loads of succession stories. I mean, King and Conqueror, right, which is historically accurate portraying of what went on in 1066, that's got a succession, purely because there's succession issues in that. If there's succession issues in anything, people say, oh, it's a bit like succession. I know, but that's what I mean.

22:12Nnamdi Asomugha:I feel like every time something else comes up I go oh it's a bit succession although presumably

22:16Tom Blyth:the king in King Conqueror doesn't go fuck off every five minutes

22:19Jessica Chastain:well they do say fuck off oh okay but it's a totally modern it's a totally modern it's a modern vernacular yeah there's loads of swearing in it I must watch that I'm adding it to the sofa list add it to the sofa list it's there yeah I'm doing it Eddie Marsan the brilliant thing about that show I think I said we did review it didn't we review it I was off that week oh you were off that week Eddie Marsan and Juliette Stevenson the mother and son are phenomenal together and how that storyline plays out is hilarious and brilliant Anyway, I digress. Back to House of Guinness. It is a bit disappointing.

22:50Jessica Chastain:There's something about it. It's almost difficult to explain. As I was watching, I'm kind of enjoying it, and it's an interesting situation. And what's kind of incredible about it is it depicts the Guinness family as a bunch of really problematic people, and yet it's completely officially sanctioned by them, by the modern-day Guinness people. It's very open of them to go, oh, yeah, our ancestors. I mean, it's clear that these people, you know, who are long since gone. But still, they are a bad bunch, right? And they employ James Norton's character, who's basically their fixer. And he's basically torturing people, torturing the workers, yeah.

23:21Jessica Chastain:And you're like, this is the history of Guinness, you know. So I'm kind of like... Turn it like it was. Yeah. So I'm kind of like impressed by the element of it, that they've managed to get away with the whole thing. The no holds barred. But you know how, what it is, is Stephen Knight is a really... I mean, I've interviewed him. I've posted Q &As with him, and he's a brilliantly friendly, open, creative person. He's a fascinating figure talking about this stuff. But I do find with his stuff sometimes, like, he's very good at establishing, at creating the world, world building, that phrase, in fact, is what I'm grasping for.

23:56Jessica Chastain:And sometimes the storytelling is a bit, like, obvious. And I think in this case, you know how Peaky Blinders, it was so bold and daring with all the modern day music, the needle drops and all of that. It was kind of instantly captivating. And this is trying to do a similar thing, but it's slightly less, for some reason it doesn't quite captivate in the same way. And you have to almost see it to see what I mean.

24:20Nnamdi Asomugha:What's the soundtrack like to it?

24:22Jessica Chastain:It's got bits and pieces of, you know, modern, not as much as Peaky Blinders do, but it's got a little bit of that. And it's very like, you know, the thing that's happening now, I meant to mention this the other day with another show, I can't remember which one. you know the thing that happens now when they put titles on the screen of like flash up you know 1867 or whatever year it is and they'll do it in massive bold

24:43Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah so it covers the whole screen yeah

24:45Jessica Chastain:that happens in every show now on TV including this one and there's a lot of flashing up on screen of stuff that he also does in the SAS programme see the SAS programme which he also wrote I really enjoy and his storytelling in that is kind of brilliant but there's something in this it's somehow gone a bit awry have you watched all of it? No, I've actually like three.

25:04Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, how many are there?

25:05Jessica Chastain:I think there are, I'll ask you a question, like seven or eight probably.

25:09Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, well maybe it's just a slow burn.

25:10Jessica Chastain:Yeah, it could be a slow burn. Yeah. Anyway, that's House of Genshaw if you didn't have time to review. And finally, sorry.

25:16Nnamdi Asomugha:Jesus, have you moved out of your house? No, this is what I do.

25:20Jessica Chastain:I finished Alien Earth and I only mentioned this because... Well, I was going to bring this up as well, yeah. James has convened a spoiler special panel, not including me. We're doing it this afternoon. You know what? You can join.

25:30Tom Blyth:You can literally join. There is a seat for you if you want to join us.

25:33Nnamdi Asomugha:Who's in your Alien Earth special? At the moment,

25:35Tom Blyth:it is me, Chris and Helen and I don't know if he has even picked a fourth person. So that could be Boyd. That could literally be Boyd. You can't invite me to it

25:42Jessica Chastain:like an hour before it's about to start. Of course we can. No, he needs more time. No, he needs more time. Of course we can. He needs more time. Anyway, I'll tell you my top new worth. Okay, without spoilers. Without spoilers, I think after episode five, episode five is brilliant. It's the flashback episode. It is the best one. It's absolutely brilliant. I loved it. I think after that, it goes a bit off. Do you? I really do.

26:04Nnamdi Asomugha:Can you give me kind of a couple of sentences? What is Alien Earth and why would I like it?

26:08Tom Blyth:Noah Hawley, who did Fargo and Legion, he has done this kind of prequel series which is set two years before the original Ridley Scott 1979 Alien.

26:19Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, all right.

26:20Tom Blyth:And it is set on Earth, corporations run the Earth, and a ship crash lands, and it has, among other things, and that's crucial, an alien on board.

26:28Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, well, I would watch that.

26:29Jessica Chastain:That sounds good to me. what it decides to do after that brilliant flashback episode episode 5 it I felt it just gave me the ick yeah it's just like why are you doing the there's too much of the xenomorph you see it too much in broad daylight you know the classic alien the alien

26:48Nnamdi Asomugha:you see that too much yeah

26:50Jessica Chastain:you know how and it really undermines the scariness of that you want it in the dark you want to see just bits of it

26:58Nnamdi Asomugha:not like it's in the kitchen and they do other things that I won't

27:00Jessica Chastain:that are spoilers regarding the xenomorph. There's a lot happening. I'm just like, why are you doing that? It's not necessary and I think it kind of doesn't make much sense, certain elements to it. And it's slightly ruining the whole thing of Alien. You know what we always say? You've seen Prometheus, right? I think that ship has sailed. Oh, no. I mean, Prometheus ruined it massively.

27:21Tom Blyth:Prometheus is ridiculous. But in a similar way. I must admit, I did as well. But I don't consider it an alien film. No, it's like a non-alien alien film.

27:28Nnamdi Asomugha:That's exactly what I was going to say. I wouldn't put that in the franchise it's just a film on its own the best thing

27:34Jessica Chastain:about Alien Earth are the other monster creatures the eyeball creature which is brilliant species 64 species 64 is fucking terrifying ends up in a sheep thing oh wow yeah and everything that happens revolving about that thing is brilliant I loved it but everything that happens with the Xenobl with the actual Alien Xenobl it doesn't work for me I must admit

27:54Tom Blyth:it's interesting I disagree I really liked it but I did say and again without any spoilers. I did, when I talked to Noah Hawley about it, I did say, this could have gone horribly awry. Like, on paper, this could have been very goofy, like what you tried to do. I think he pulled it off. I'm actually really happy with that. But I think he took some big swings. Yeah, big time. And the actual ending, I think, is way too goofy. I didn't mind it.

28:18Jessica Chastain:I don't mind it at all.

28:19Tom Blyth:And again, hearing him explain it helps with that. But look, hey, people listening to this, the Empire slash pilot, because I'm on it, But the Empire Spoiler Special of Alien Earth will be available on the Empire Spoiler Special feed now, and it will also be on the Pilot Plus feed. I'll be fascinated to listen to it. Oh, it's a crossover, that's nice. It's a crossover, yes. Me and Chris have had custody arrangements. Oh. Yeah, they have a big fire of it. It was like Kramer versus Kramer. It was a bit like that. And we've agreed to 50-50 custody of some of the TV Spoiler Specials.

28:47Jessica Chastain:I think, by the way, I pretty much loved it all the way through until the final three episodes. You loved it till you hated it. No, I didn't hate. I didn't not hate. I just think it went a bit awry. That's how I put it. the first five episodes are fantastic I love them the fifth episode is astonishing but then it did tail off for me and went a bit peculiar

29:05Nnamdi Asomugha:you should definitely get him on your spoiler special

29:07Jessica Chastain:well he's a bit down on it I don't know well like President Trump you're not allowing

29:13Tom Blyth:any agreement we don't allow any kind of discord we're taking Boyd off the air immediately I loved Alien Earth I really enjoyed the finale and I thought that the needle drop at the end of the final episodes was my favourite of the entire series oh my god

29:26Nnamdi Asomugha:you're giddy you're actually I love that show so much.

29:29Tom Blyth:It's right up there with my shows of the year.

29:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, what does it kind of match in terms of the shows you love?

29:35Tom Blyth:Oh, well, no, but in terms of... You know, Foundation, The Last of Us.

29:38Nnamdi Asomugha:As a Foundation, as someone who watches Foundation.

29:41Tom Blyth:Yeah, my show of the year is still Andor, but Alien Earth is right up there. I have to yet to formulate my top five, but it's in it.

29:47Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, maybe I should watch Andor, not that Wheel of Time thing. Andor first, yeah.

29:51Tom Blyth:Anything with spaceships. Anything with spaceships. Anything I play with my little spaceships is true. Oh, cute. Speaking of which, I did watch Alien Earth, yes, but that's not the only thing I watched this week. So I watched, just randomly, I turned on TV and watched an episode of 24. Now, the reasons for that are irrelevant, but I think it really made me think...

30:10Nnamdi Asomugha:Well, now I really want to know. Why did you just do that?

30:12Tom Blyth:It was just a thing. It was there. It was on. I watched it. But this isn't really about 24. Obviously, 24 has a similar real-time, propulsive, non-stop narrative to The Pit, which I have seen, and you have not. But that's not the reason I bring that up. But the reason it made me realise, the reason why I loved The Pit and Indy 24 so much... How have you seen The Pit? I watched it on the plane to Florida and on the plane back from Florida because it was on the version of Client. It's nothing to boast about. You just saw it on the plane. I know. It's the way the creators really intended it to be seen, on the back of someone's seat.

30:40Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay.

30:42Tom Blyth:But because it's essentially a 15-part series and it's 15 consecutive hours, it's real time, the whole thing is real time, and 24 is likewise, it's the anti-procedural, it's the anti-episodic TV episode for me. It's the complete opposite of that because it's literally the most joined up of long-form storytelling, which is why I love it so much. And while I obviously have banged on about the fact that I have seen The Pit and Boyd does not, but I don't think...

31:08Nnamdi Asomugha:It's outrageous, Boyd.

31:09Tom Blyth:The only thing I will say is, and we'll get into this when we eventually get to review this show, which is looking like it might be next year when it drops on HBO Max when that launches in the UK. I mean, I could be wrong, but it seems like that's possibly what's going to happen. We talked about this on Pilot Plus a little bit. The general, the received wisdom is that maybe HBO are holding it to launch HBO Max over here.

31:29Nnamdi Asomugha:Which would be a good thing to do.

31:30Tom Blyth:Yeah, because it has been critically acclaimed. But the second season is kind of imminent, isn't it?

31:33Jessica Chastain:I have to say, they made an announcement the other day, Sky, that they are airing an HBO Max show coming up very soon. So maybe that's it. Who knows? No, no, it's not that show. A different show. What I'm saying is they're still showing HBO Max content on Sky Atlantic. It's so confusing. So it's still up and, yeah.

31:54Tom Blyth:But the pit is such... When I finished it, when I got off the end of that flight, in fact, I finished it, it was pretty close to the end of the flight back, I felt bereft, like I'd been through this intense 15-hour shift with these people, and you become so sort of enmeshed in these characters, so immersed in their lives. It's absolutely wonderful. And there's, and again, no spoilers, but it's not like ER, where it's Case of the Week and some of them are more intense than the others. It gradually builds and builds because it is one 12-hour shift that turns into a 14-hour shift and then there's a bit on the end.

32:27Tom Blyth:So it is one day in this Pittsburgh hospital. And it gets so intense and so extreme and there are huge events in it that I was just like, because when this started, the first three episodes, four episodes, and I think when we talked about it on this podcast, which is when I'd just done my flight out, so I'd only seen, I think, the first four or five, I was like, yeah, it's good. I really liked it. It's good. It's like ER meets 24. By the time you got to the end of it, like now you understand why can you say this is literally

32:53Jessica Chastain:a review of the pit yes it's exactly what it is

32:56Nnamdi Asomugha:it's a review of the pit by his stealth he started talking about Faganon about 24 he was just showing off and and he's mesmerising me and I'm just letting it happen it's the bullshit about 24 I know I was like

33:08Jessica Chastain:at one point I was like

33:10Nnamdi Asomugha:are we still talking about 24 no he's reviewing it's literally

33:13Tom Blyth:a review of the pit unbelievable I've pivoted into the pit

33:16Nnamdi Asomugha:what's happening it's a pit pivot

33:18Tom Blyth:it was a pit stop is what it was Oh, my God. But, but, aside from the pit, there is something else I've been watching, and that is The Savant on Apple TV+. Now, The Savant we reviewed on Pilot Plus last week. The Savant you would have watched last week if it had aired, but it didn't air because Apple pulled it from the airwaves. They didn't say why, but obviously I think it's fairly obvious why, given everything that's going on in America at the moment. So they haven't said when it will air, they've just said at a future date. So I guess they'll keep an eye on the political climate. So I had a bit of a panic.

33:48Tom Blyth:so I'd watched I think five of the eight and I don't know why I suddenly thought what if they pull it off the screen?

33:53Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm just about to ask you are they going to pull it off the screen? I don't know so last night

33:57Tom Blyth:I just binge watched the rest of them so I got the answer I need to see all of them just in case they pull it because I was really enjoying the show so I've now seen all of them I need to go home

34:05Nnamdi Asomugha:and watch the rest of them

34:06Tom Blyth:yeah I mean I really enjoyed it I think the Empire Review we gave it three I understand why we gave it three and I think Oli who wrote the review said he doesn't think it sticks to landing and I understand that take as well I actually think it's fine, and I enjoyed the whole show, but I certainly understand his complaints about it. Question.

34:23Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you think that someone somewhere at Apple said, let's pull this show to make people really watch it when we put it back on? I mean, it might work. Yeah. It made me, it worked for me. Well, exactly. Yeah.

34:38Jessica Chastain:It feels like, I mean, there's an article in Variety saying how it's a really stupid decision on Apple's part, and basically framing it. framing it as that they're capitulating to Trump because it is about extreme right-wing people. Well, there's two ways of interpreting it, isn't there?

34:54Nnamdi Asomugha:Jimmy Kimmel's back on air now, so, you know.

34:56Tom Blyth:Yeah, but there's two ways of interpreting this. You could interpret this as a not wanting to provoke the administration and their particular political view, or you could say this is a show about domestic terrorism and shootings, and irrespective of which side of the spectrum you are on, it's a very sensitive issue at the moment in the US. in the same way that, you know, when there's like a plane crash, they tend to pull a show about a plane crash because it's like, oh, it's just a little bit close to reality. We don't want to upset anyone. So you could, you know, less cynically maybe say it was that.

35:24Jessica Chastain:Well, I'll just read you what Variety says. In a shocking decision, Apple TV Plus has postponed the premiere of The Savant, offering another chilling example of how business giants are running scared of the Trump administration and bowing to pressure before it even exists. The series has been scheduled to launch September 26th. So they're kind of assuming, but... That's a big assumption. It is quite a big assumption.

35:45Tom Blyth:Because you wouldn't say that if it had been lost.

35:48Jessica Chastain:I know, but the consensus is, of course, you know Tim Cook, your friend Tim Cook, My close personal friend Tim Cook, yes. as once interviewed live and direct. We had a connection. You know, he did a big thing with Trump. I mean, I say friend, he's more of an acquaintance. We're not close. He never calls. Well, he has become very pally with Trump. I've never really liked him before. He was at the dinner, he was at the big, not Buckingham Palace Windsor Castle dinner for Trump

36:14Tom Blyth:was he? was he? I didn't know that was he cooking?

36:18Jessica Chastain:no anyway so that is the context there is a context people have been very critical of him and how just how close to Trump he's become so that's interesting yeah it's a thorny topic

36:30Nnamdi Asomugha:why are we letting politicians get involved in TV?

36:33Jessica Chastain:oh I mean

36:34Nnamdi Asomugha:why? why? because capitalism because capitalism it's just so depressing though isn't it? it's so bloody depressing

36:41Tom Blyth:Well, yeah, and to a certain extent, you kind of, I mean, I certainly go to TV for an escape from the hellscape. Exactly. It's current affairs. So, yeah. And I will say this one, while I really enjoyed it, it's a difficult watch. And we said that. Because it is a black mirror on exactly what is happening at the moment. And it's, yeah, it's quite grim.

36:59Jessica Chastain:By the way, to assuage your doubts, I mean, it's still there on the Apple press side. Is it? Okay, good. It's all available to watch for us.

37:06Nnamdi Asomugha:You see, now I need to watch all of it. Well, I feel the same way. Yeah. Yeah.

37:10Tom Blyth:Because I think, I mean, look, I suspect, very strongly suspect, they will definitely release it at some point. It's just a case of what's, you know, what does their barometer look like? When do they decide it's okay?

37:20Nnamdi Asomugha:Has Jessica Chastain said anything?

37:22Tom Blyth:I don't think so. Not that I can see. Although she's going to be saying a lot later on in this podcast because I'm going to run the interview anyway.

37:26Jessica Chastain:The Apple TV Plus statement, just to give you in full, and this is a classic Apple because they don't like to go into detail about anything, ever, do they? They are quite opaque. They are quite opaque. After careful consideration, we have made the decision to postpone the savant. We appreciate your understanding. I look forward to releasing the series at a future date. Yeah. That's literally what it says.

37:44Nnamdi Asomugha:That is terrible. Well, it's opaque.

37:47Jessica Chastain:But at least they are saying they will release it at a future date. Yeah, they're not canning it completely.

37:51Nnamdi Asomugha:There's no juice there. We want the juice. I want to know why.

37:53Jessica Chastain:But it's so interesting. They're clearly anticipating a reaction to it, right? Even with the opaque statement, they're clearly anticipating a reaction from certain people to this series. I mean, that is what's interesting. Yeah, because people are waiting.

38:08Nnamdi Asomugha:now Jimmy Kimmel's back on air they're waiting for something else aren't they something else to happen and now this I feel like this is

38:14Jessica Chastain:well I think everything is almost refracted through the lens of recent events shall we say that's what seems to be the situation I think anything that touches upon this subject matter as the savant does is they anticipating a reaction to it that's what I'm saying and that's why they've postponed it

38:30Tom Blyth:oh god this isn't I mean Boydie I was going to say this is an emergency it's not really an emergency is it this is just a an FYI drop-in that we've decided to do. Yeah, it was your idea. It was my idea. I blame you. I dragged Boyd away from his lunch hour to do this. So we are now the day after we recorded the main podcast, which was really quite early this week to accommodate Steph's work schedule. And, you know, when we were discussing this whole issue about the savant, we mentioned, you know, what does Jessica Chastain think about it? She hadn't said anything. But of course, then she did say something later that day and we felt obligated to reconvene and mention it.

39:04So, strap in.

39:06Tom Blyth:This is what she said on her Instagram, she posted last night, me and Boydie were a screening of the Smashing Machine, weren't we? We were. Seeing The Rock, and Emily Blunt, and Benny Safdie. And yes, and this dropped into our Instagram, and this is what she said. Jessica Jastain, I want to say how much I value my partnership with Apple. They've been incredible collaborators, and I deeply respect their team. That said, I wanted to reach out and let you know that we're not aligned on the decision to pause the release of The Savant. In the last five years, since we've been making the show, we've seen an unfortunate amount of violence in the United States.

39:39Tom Blyth:The kidnapping attempt on Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, the January 6th attack on the Capitol, the assassination attempts on President Trump, the political assassinations of Democratic representatives in Minnesota, the attack on Speaker Pelosi's husband, the assassination of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, the recent shooting at an ABC affiliate station in California, and over 300 school shootings across this country. These incidents, though far from encompassing the full range of violence witnessed in the United States, illustrate a broader mindset that crosses the political spectrum and must be confronted.

40:11Tom Blyth:I've never shied away from difficult subjects, and while I wish this show wasn't so relevant, unfortunately, it is. The Savant is about the heroes who work every day to stop violence before it happens, and honoring their courage feels more urgent than ever. While I respect Apple's decision to pause the release for now, I remain hopeful the show will reach audiences soon. Until then, I'm wishing safety and strength for everyone, and I'll let you know if and when this event is released. Can I just say, in the last sentence, it's funny,

40:40Jessica Chastain:because as if, like, we're not going to know when it's released. I think we'll all find out, Jessica, thank you, when Apple's going to release it. People will find out on this podcast. From us. That's what we're here for. Yeah, it's a good statement, I think. And it underlines... I think there's a mystery. I don't understand what Apple TV think they're doing by postponing it. I don't get what they're afraid of. That's the question, isn't it? Because she's an executive producer as well. She's not just the star of the show. A hundred percent. Yeah, she's very much involved in the creation of it and getting it made.

41:16Jessica Chastain:But it's particularly bizarre that the only explanation seems to be they're giving in to a pressure they imagine is going to happen if they edit it. They face criticism from someone, somewhere, the kind of people depicted in the show, maybe? Possibly.

41:37Tom Blyth:Is it about sensitivities or is it about fear? And is it indicative? Whose sensitivities are you worried about? But is it one of those things where they try not to do, we talked about this, I think, previously in the show, so forgive us if we are repeating ourselves. It was yesterday and our memories are very poor. You know, is it a case of them thinking, you know, hashtag too soon? Do you know what I mean? Like, maybe it's that, or maybe it is, we are afraid to do this lest there be repercussions. whether there be backlash.

42:01Jessica Chastain:It feels very much like the latter, yeah. Because the form, it's only kind of, you know, vaguely similar to what happens in the show. Funnily enough, I was watching Slow Horses last night. I watched episode one again because I'm reviewing it, writing a review of it today. And Slow Horses, the new season, deals with extremist political violence. Right, yes. And are they going to stop that as well? It's too late. I mean, it's gone and started already. That's interesting.

42:26Tom Blyth:I guess because that happens in the UK, maybe they don't really...

42:30Jessica Chastain:Well, I mean, there's as much criticism of what happens in London from this week we had it.

42:35Tom Blyth:You mean the war zone in which we live, Bordy,

42:36Jessica Chastain:where we're afraid to leave our houses? Apparently, and we're Sharia law. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, that is a controversy that could be percolating quietly in the background if anyone decided to point it out like I just have now. Yeah. But I think it just underlines, for me, the absurdity of the decision by Apple because they clearly haven't, rightly, they have not postponed so horses. But some people might complain about it. for reasons similar to the ones that they might complain about, The Savant. It's just a needless, messy load of old nonsense, I think. I genuinely think, by the way, if they'll just let it air, Apple TV Plus, it's like...

43:16Jessica Chastain:You're saying, no one's going to watch it anyway. Slightly. I mean, we love Apple TV. We do. We do. It's got the best stuff. Yes. Absolutely. But the fewer subscribers. The fewer subscribers, I think, particularly in the UK. But I just think what a bizarre, just pointless thing to do, to anticipate reactions to something that is a very well-made and very well-put-together thing. I don't imagine anyone would have... I was saying that not to be sarcastic about the number of subscribers they have. Even forgetting the number, even if it was like a Disney Plus or a Netflix show, for example, it doesn't feel like the kind of show that people would be exercised about, even though it is dealing with stuff that's happening currently.

44:00Jessica Chastain:You can't tell though sometimes, can you? No, that's just my feeling is I think they've over-anticipated the importance of their own show. It's a really entertaining, well-put-together thing. Dealing with a really interesting area, a really interesting subject matter, I just don't feel it's the kind of show that would have had people rising up in ire about it. I just don't. So I think they've kind of erred on the side of weird caution.

44:27Tom Blyth:That said, and I don't think this was the objective, I do wonder whether this ultimately will generate more interest in the Savant than previously. Well, I mean, if you're really cynical, you could say that. I don't think that's the reason they've done it, but I think that will be a side effect, because when and if it comes out, people are, oh, great, I can find, like, I binge them all so that I wouldn't lose the opportunity to see them. So, I don't know. It was interesting. So, I was on the subreddit this morning when I got up, and someone had mentioned on there that they thought we shouldn't have run the review of the Savant in Pilot Plus.

44:55Tom Blyth:Oh, really? back and I was like oh and I genuinely asked I said you know why like I'm genuinely curious because I was like oh was this person offended like did they think that it was disrespectful of us to run the review of the show that clearly Apple thought was disrespectful to air which is several steps removed I was like well that's quite extreme turns out no they were just like well if I can't see it I don't really want to hear the review to which point I was like okay I get it that's fine but our thought process was very much I think and I explained this to them that we wanted to give people the choice if you want to listen to it listen to it you might want to be part of this broader discussion about this show?

45:25Tom Blyth:Do you want to know more about it? Because if so, here's the review. And then obviously they can skip it if they don't. Yeah, I mean, that seems fair, yeah.

45:32Jessica Chastain:I wonder whether, I mean, I haven't seen many complaints from people saying, oh, it's been postponed, that's an outrage. I look on the other side of things. There's not been an uprising, a kind of, you know, Jimmy Kimmel-style uprising. It's Jessica said, who stars in and helped make the show, which is absolutely fair enough. But it doesn't feel, I guess, also partly that's down to Apple's very minimal statement where they just said, we're not showing it right now. They gave no reasons at all. Okay, thanks, bye.

45:59Tom Blyth:But it's interesting that she publicly went out to oppose them on it. That is a very interesting thing because you would think, was she involved in the conversation and then overruled or was she just informed after the fact this is just not happening? It feels like the latter. And she's clearly like, well, no, I don't agree with that. But you can say, oh, really, is it sensitive? I don't really think you should have done. But it's actually quite strong to have that conversation with yourself and then also go on social media and make an official statement against them.

46:26Jessica Chastain:I think I really admire what she's done by making the statement because it does feel like an absurd decision. It must seem weird to her that having, you know, gone through the... You know, how long these things take to write and create and film and, you know, market and all of that and to kind of... And to plan exactly when it's going to go out on the stream service and of all of that to be kind of ditched for, as I say, mysterious reasons, appeasing something you don't even know whether you would have had two other peas is weird. So I'm not surprised she has made a statement. It feels like, yeah, you would do.

46:58Jessica Chastain:If you'd made this kind of show and they get yanked off air suddenly, you wouldn't be happy and you would discuss it. Yeah, agreed.

47:04Tom Blyth:And we, in solidarity with Jessica, have, in a show of strength, decided to stand alongside her and run her interview on this podcast regardless. And crucially, that has nothing to do with the fact that we'd already recorded the show and we can't be fucked to redo it. Like, nothing to do with that. Absolutely not. Whatsoever. No. No. Absolutely not. Okay. Back to the show. Right. Well, as a complete segue, a complete non sequitur, time now for this week's first guest, Jessica Chastain and Namdi Asamwa are in a new show on Apple TV Plus called The Survival.

47:38Nnamdi Asomugha:I can't wait for this.

47:40Tom Blyth:A very topical show. So Jessica Chastain, if you don't already know, plays someone who infiltrates online far-right hate groups and stops them from committing domestic terror attacks. You can't see it, I'm sorry to say, but at some point you will be able to. And we sent Jordan to speak to both Jessica and Namdi, and we think you should listen to the interview anyway. So here they are, talking to Jordan King. Enjoy.

48:04Jessica Chastain:It is my absolute pleasure to be joined on the Pilot TV podcast by two of the stars of Apple TV Plus' The Savant, the newly Hollywood Walk of Fame inducted Jessica Chastain, and the surely soon-to-be Hollywood Walk of Fame inducted Namdi Asama. How are you both today? Doing great. Very well.

48:22Tom Blyth:Thank you so much.

48:23Jessica Chastain:Well done. Well done. Thank you. I'm well. Congratulations on the show. Thank you. And I try not to be hyperbolic, but this is, for me, extraordinary, best of the year level stuff.

48:37Nnamdi Asomugha:Thank you.

48:37Jessica Chastain:And I think it's incredibly important and incredibly timely. But also, I do wonder, and I would like to know if you guys were sleeping well while you were filming this, because I finished watching it a week ago and I don't think I've had a comfortable night's sleep since. So how were you guys coping with it when you were filming it?

48:57Tom Blyth:I think the exhaustion of being on set all day,

49:00Nnamdi Asomugha:it would just knock me out at the end of the day. So I was sleeping, but man, it was, you're right. It's so tense what the series is.

49:09Tom Blyth:It's quite a ride that you go on with these characters. And when you think that, wow, this is a true story, there are people out there doing this. Yes, there are incidents of mass violence that happen, but how many have been prevented because these incredible heroes and what they've sacrificed and what they're doing day to day?

49:27Nnamdi Asomugha:So, yeah, it's incredible to honor them. It was some late nights and then early mornings. So I think you had no choice but to go to sleep. But the other thing, just on the lighter side, we had kids on set and they're kids. So as heavy as the topic is, the moment you say cut, they're running around and doing whatever they can to, you know, just dancing, singing, just having fun. And I think that perspective from them was always grounding for me, at least just to be able to go back into that space of like, OK, we're we're playing characters. You know, there are people that are doing this in real life and, you know, we're grateful to them.

50:10Nnamdi Asomugha:but keeping perspective there I think really helped.

50:14Jessica Chastain:Yeah definitely and I mean I actually read the original Cosmopolitan story back in 2019 when it first came out and it's been kind of crazy to see how in the years since everything that Andrea Stanley was writing about has only become more prevalent and it's become so much more sort of a dominant feature of our culture and our society at the moment. I was wondering for you guys, where did your journey with this begin? What was your onboarding point when you heard about this story and got involved with the project? Mine was the very beginning. Kelly Carmichael, my producing partner, sent me the Cosmo article.

50:53Jessica Chastain:I think the title is, Can You Prevent a Mass Shooting Before It Happens? I think.

50:58Tom Blyth:That's what came up in my feed.

51:00Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, exactly. And I was really excited.

51:02Tom Blyth:What a great title, by the way. I know. Jeez.

51:05Nnamdi Asomugha:uh to um learn about her and so i i jumped on pretty quickly um onto the series and i've that was probably 2019 right yeah right before the pandemic early 2019 so it's been a long journey um that i've been attached to it with my production company as they all are you know when you're putting these projects together it takes time um you know and for me uh it was the typical process came from the agent's audition for this thing. I saw Jessica's name on it. We had just done The Good Nurse a couple of years before that. And so I was very excited to put myself on tape. And actually, I didn't put myself on tape.

51:48Nnamdi Asomugha:It was a direct audition with the casting director, which I absolutely love. And I don't know how much you're aware of this, but a lot of stuff is you send in a tape and you have no clue if they're going to watch it or not. So when anytime that you get to see the person that you're auditioning with is super helpful and really, you know, just helps your confidence. And so I did that. And then, you know, some months later, got the part and we were we were going.

52:19Jessica Chastain:Yeah. And I mean, you just touched on there. Obviously, you guys have worked together before on Tobias Lindholm's The Goodness, which was actually Empire's gala screening at the London Film Festival a few years ago. so you were there for that obviously Jessica and I was just wondering having worked together before and getting to reunite on something like this, heading into sort of a bit of dark territory obviously with the subject matter but knowing each other a bit as actors and having been in scenes with each other before, do you have a bit of a shorthand coming into this for, do you have a bit of a sense of each other's style of acting, your instincts or are you still

52:57Nnamdi Asomugha:finding new things in the way that each other works always finding always oh my goodness i mean the most important thing for me was he's a good person like that's the thing he's a good actor from the good nurse but also he's a good person and i really it was important charlie is a good person like and i just knew i i was going to be you were going to be on time you were going to be professional you're going to say like the same with you like the thing that you want is of course you want to work with the best, but you also want to work with the best people. You know what I mean? Nice. This is going to work out, you know?

53:34Nnamdi Asomugha:So I do think being able to have the good nurse as a reference and having that, you know, sort of level of communication and understanding her in that way, knowing that I wanted to work with her again, I think that was huge.

53:47Jessica Chastain:Because, I mean, because obviously such a big part of this is there's a line in the third episode that's really sort of stuck with me a question that Jodie asks Charlie over the phone where she says uh do you think if you engage with terrible things you're daring even worse things to happen and something that I found fascinating about that is that over the course of the series it's not just a question of is what Jodie's doing daring worse things to happen in America sort of as a systemic issue it's also is she daring worse things to happen within that family home that she's built and within her own mind as well and so I wondered like for you guys sort of modulating that relationship where these are two uh that were good people they're two good people that are put under this very unique kind of pressure how how was that for you trying to create that dynamic and sort of show that to an audience i think well it's also there it's the

54:43Nnamdi Asomugha:monster inside of jody there's a lot of what the series is about is she grew up with a lot of darkness. And is that why she's the savant? Is that why she's so good at this job is because she understands this world better than anyone else because she's in some sense been a part of it. And if that darkness is inside of her, is it going to rear its head at some point? Are her children going to be hurt? Is she poison that will end up hurting those that she loves so deeply. I think that's also this idea of, can you be exposed to something dark and not let it infiltrate the, the, who you are? Uh, and I think hopefully the question is, you know, you're always, everyone's redeemable and everyone's savable and everyone, um, can heal.

55:38Nnamdi Asomugha:Uh, and I think that's Jodi's journey. Yeah.

55:42Jessica Chastain:And then for yourself, Nnamdi, playing obviously her husband, who's seen his own service in the military and is having to try and hold the family together as well. When you're exploring that kind of relationship, does that make you think about yourself as a person in the world? Does that make you think about the way that the work that you do, how much of that you're able to protect from your own bubble, your own world? like how you're able to separate going out and telling these stories that go to these dark places and being able to come home at the end of the day and still be you, you know.

56:17Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, to an extent. I mean, we talked earlier about having kids on set and how they were able to sort of ground us in the reality that, you know, we are playing characters, you know, and them being able to keep us sort of light in the midst of this heavy topic. And I'm actually glad that you said the, are you daring worse things to happen that you, you sort of phrased it the way you did and sort of how you interpreted it. Because as my character, that was the way I interpreted it as well, which was, you know, anytime we hear someone and someone's sort of asking for advice or they're asking a question, they're asking in, in, through their own lens, but you're hearing it through your lens.

57:02Nnamdi Asomugha:And so when she says that to me, are you daring worse things to happen, what I'm thinking is, is something going to happen to her? Is something going to happen to the family? And immediately, you know, my thought process is how do we stop this? You know, how do we put an end to this? It's starting to seep its way into the family in a certain way. The tricky thing for me was actually when my own kids would ask me, what's the show about? And I have a son who's relentless. You can't give the right answer. He's going to keep asking another question. And so I think for me, that was like art imitating life or life imitating, however it goes, of me trying to find ways to sort of keep their minds safe and their minds protected in the midst of what we were dealing with on set.

57:59Nnamdi Asomugha:So there was that balance in both ways on and off screen.

58:04Jessica Chastain:Congratulations on the show. It's phenomenal. I hope so many people watch it because I think it's so important what it's saying. And yeah, good luck with the rest of the day with the junk here. And I can't wait to see what you guys do next. Hopefully a rom-com maybe. That would be fun.

58:18Tom Blyth:Let's relax. Thank you.

58:20Nnamdi Asomugha:Bye-bye. Take care. Thank you so much.

58:22Tom Blyth:Okay. We would now have a listener question, but Kay isn't here. and nobody needs me to go through the triage system and also we've got two interviews this week so we probably will move straight on to news. Couldn't be bothered.

58:33Nnamdi Asomugha:I know, I'd have looked at the emails for you. See, now you're just making me look bad.

58:37Tom Blyth:Now you are.

58:38Nnamdi Asomugha:I mean, I've been a lot on this week. I'm all about the run time, Steph.

58:40Tom Blyth:I'm all about the run time. Oh, are you?

58:42Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, fine. Okay, so we're not having a single listener question. We're not going to have

58:46Tom Blyth:a listener question, but if you do want your questions answered, do subscribe to Pilot Plus where you will get the joy of the post bag and all your questions will be answered there and you can send them in pilot tv at empire magazine dot com

58:56Nnamdi Asomugha:hold on a minute you only answer questions what are you talking about so you can only submit a question if you subscribe to Pilot Plus

59:01Tom Blyth:yeah wow capitalism that's horrifying yeah it's awful isn't it okay well I am a subscriber

59:06Nnamdi Asomugha:so I can see there you go

59:08Tom Blyth:so you're good I'll answer your question Steph you send it in okay thanks hun good right let's talk about the news I mean obviously we've already talked about quite a lot of the news but what else has been happening in the world of news Boydie

59:18Jessica Chastain:well I mean we can't not discuss the fact that Jimmy Kimmel is back May is back Yes. Not everywhere though, crucially.

59:27Nnamdi Asomugha:Yes, that's so interesting. Sorry, Boyd, I don't want to take your news thing. But I find that so interesting that there's all these kind of regional channels that are like, no, we're just going to replace him with news. Like other, like, you know, like 24-hour news broadcasts or whatever they've decided to do on them. And they're just not having him back. I find that just, either have him back or don't have him back. The affiliates, yes. It's weird though. What is the reasoning behind that?

59:53Tom Blyth:Well, it's kind of a political statement.

59:56Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, because they're kind of red states and they don't want that. Right, yeah.

59:58Tom Blyth:I mean, they didn't like him to begin with, but now they have a reason not to air him.

1:00:02Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, but did you watch his...

1:00:05Jessica Chastain:I've watched the clip of his monologue. He basically apologises-ish. He explains himself. It all goes back to the monologue he did, which he mentioned the situation,

1:00:19Tom Blyth:was certainly open to interpretation. Yeah, but it was. by all accounts, I would say, a lot more mild than advertised. Oh, 100%. I listened to it a few times and was like, have I got the wrong clip? I can't work out where the dodgy bit is.

1:00:34Jessica Chastain:But he addressed it in a very eloquent, I thought really eloquent, well-judged way. I thought his tone was perfect. And, you know, he definitely... And of course, I thought it was interesting that everyone rallied round. But in the end, I think this is a case possibly of, you know, Disney responding to activism. to, you know, there was a huge barrage of criticism they faced from a lot from their own, people who've been in their own shows, people saying they're going to cancel Disney Plus and stop watching Hulu.

1:01:00Nnamdi Asomugha:I did enjoy all of those things.

1:01:02Tom Blyth:I'm canceling my

1:01:03Nnamdi Asomugha:Disney subscription indefinitely.

1:01:05Tom Blyth:It was like three and a half billion off their share. 4.4 billion.

1:01:08Nnamdi Asomugha:4.4. It was 2.87 % of their share.

1:01:11Jessica Chastain:Jon Stewart made a funny point. He said something like, people can now stop pretending they're boycotting Hulu. Yeah. Hulu's a really good channel full of excellent programs, basically. So he's brilliant. But what made me laugh at Trump, I'm not being political about this, honestly, but Trump's reaction to Jimmy Kimmel returning has just been released, literally, as we speak. Oh, God. And he said, I can't believe ABC fake news gave Jimmy Kimmel his job back. The White House was told by ABC that his show was cancelled. Something happened between then and now because the audience is gone and his talent never was there.

1:01:47Jessica Chastain:Why would they want someone back who does so poorly, who's not funny and who puts the network in jeopardy. I like, when do we ever expect the President of the United States to take so much time about talking about how a late night chat show isn't funny? It's such a different world we live in. Do you know what I find so funny

1:02:02Nnamdi Asomugha:about that? It's like that he thinks when he left whatever conversation he had about that show, he thinks they just stopped talking about it. He's so surprised that people continued talking about it after he'd said his piece. He's like, well, I've said what I think now. Now that's stopped. It's over.

1:02:17Tom Blyth:Oh, God. He's just clearly quite worked up and you've got to feel for him because if he gets a headache now, he can't even take a paracetamol. No. Well, he can. It's just women can't. Pretty good women can't, apparently.

1:02:27Jessica Chastain:Anyway. Anyway. But yeah, it's a whole big... Basically, if you look in the American showbiz press, there's nothing else going on because there's been such a huge news story. Yeah, it has been everything. It's been going on left, right, centre. And the other thing I wanted to mention about it is Robert De Niro played the FCC chair in a sketch on Jimmy Kimmel's comeback show. Did you know about this? Yeah. No. So, yeah, he got De Niro involved. Because the FCC chair was kind of the one who said, did that kind of mafia style, you can do this the easy way or the hard way, which was an extraordinary moment in popular culture on its own.

1:03:01Jessica Chastain:That was on a podcast, by the way, as well. So, you know. But, yeah, getting Robert De Niro to play the FCC chair, I thought it was very funny.

1:03:08Tom Blyth:Can I just say, you know you're on the wrong side of history when even Ted Cruz is weighing in and saying, do you know what, this is a bit much.

1:03:13Jessica Chastain:Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz makes him sound like Tom Cruise's brother. Yeah. He is not.

1:03:18Tom Blyth:No.

1:03:19Jessica Chastain:So, yeah, there you are.

1:03:20Tom Blyth:That's my main news. There have been other things. There have been other things. There was a trailer for Welcome to Derry, which is the IT spin-off show. I have to say, I'm on board. Of course you are. No, but it looked lovely. I love the period setting of it, and you see a little bit Pennywise in there as well. It is a great story. It's easy to fuck up, I would say, but it bodes well. I think that looks very promising, so we're excited about that. Do you remember The Wasteland, which was going to be the new George Miller kind of Mad Max instalment. And then after Furiosa didn't do very well. Oh, yeah.

1:03:53Tom Blyth:Apparently it's going to now be reborn as a TV show. Oh, okay. So we're going to get a The Wasteland Mad Max TV show. With George Miller working on it? George Miller, by all accounts, is working on it, yes. That's exciting. So, yeah. Good. Hooray.

1:04:06Nnamdi Asomugha:Yay. Yes. Did you ever watch The Big Bang Theory? Do you hate The Big Bang Theory? I can't remember.

1:04:12Tom Blyth:The Big Bang Theory, I think, is a very interesting show. Because it's one of these shows where when it came out, people were like, oh, this is quite funny. And Chuck Lorre is quite good. You know, this is entertaining. Good characters. And also, I quite like the little nerdy references that I get. Yeah. But it's become one of these shows that is emblematic of all things evil. Like, it's become the show that it is so uncool to like the Big Bang Theory, to say you watched the Big Bang Theory, to ever say you ever enjoyed the Big Bang Theory. It's a really... Is it? Yeah, it's a bit like Mumford and Sons.

1:04:41Tom Blyth:It's become this sort of like weird pariah thing in popular culture.

1:04:44Jessica Chastain:But it's partly because of Chuck Lorre, isn't it, actually? I would say, because, you know, he'd create Two and a Half Men as well. I think that's more problematic.

1:04:50Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, that's hurt him more than, yeah. You can't say that which one loves that show.

1:04:54Tom Blyth:But I don't think it's, like, Big Bang isn't seen as problematic. It's just seen as extremely naff, I think. But it's massively popular, and so was Young Children. Why did you ask, anyway?

1:05:02Nnamdi Asomugha:I was bringing it up because the news about Stuart Bloom, Stuart Fails to Save the Universe, the spin-off, and there's an exciting update, and the update was actually just the logo, but it's still exciting and it's kind of like an Atom logo so did you really like

1:05:16Jessica Chastain:the Big Bang Theory?

1:05:17Nnamdi Asomugha:I have to say I watched every single episode of Big Bang Theory and I re-watched I loved the finale I really really enjoyed it I thought they dealt with all those characters endings really well I loved it

1:05:28Jessica Chastain:did you watch Young Sheldon as well?

1:05:29Nnamdi Asomugha:and then I tried to watch Young Sheldon but I didn't because I love Sheldon Young Sheldon

1:05:33Jessica Chastain:is a huge hit as well it's absolutely massive and it does really well for E4 I think it's one of their biggest shows but it's no Big Bang Theory

1:05:39Nnamdi Asomugha:I don't think that audience was the same

1:05:42Jessica Chastain:do you? Well, I mean, it was literally a spin-off.

1:05:44Nnamdi Asomugha:I know, but he was a really young boy in it. It was more of a teeny show. I don't think it was the same. I'd be interested. I don't think it's the same audience. Anyway, Big Bang Theory I loved, and I'm definitely going to watch Stuart Fails to Save the Universe because in another life, you and Chris Hewitt would be Stuart. Thank you. And own a comic book shop and, you know, that kind of... Do you know what I mean? She's more comic book guy in The Simpsons. Do you know, weirdly, I think the reason I like Big Bang Theory so much is because when I first started working when I came out of university I worked as the editorialist in Empire and all my friends were you like you and Chris and Nick like I was basically in the Big Bang Theory I was like geeky I was surrounded by like all these geeky boys who I adored but who were all completely hopeless at everything and it's true though you were like that

1:06:35Jessica Chastain:the woman in it yeah she was

1:06:37Nnamdi Asomugha:like not like blonde and really hot but I was like the woman in it. I just had a knowledge of what was outside a gaming room so that made me, you know. Anyway, yeah, and I think that's why I like it so much but anyway, I'm very excited about it because I love Stuart as a character so Stuart fails to save the universe which is going to be on, is that next year? Oh, they're filming already. That's very exciting and there's a behind the scenes look at the series. Anyway, sorry, that was my news that the logo's been released that's all it was and it was exciting. I like your analogy though

1:07:06Tom Blyth:and I totally get that. Do you know what I mean? When Steph started as the editorial assistant she instantly became our favourite editorial assistant because she introduced something called Cake O 'Clock where she went out and got yum-yums and doughnuts and brought them in I presume in an attempt to give us all diabetes.

1:07:19Jessica Chastain:Did you steal that from Heat? Because we had cake meets every week.

1:07:21Nnamdi Asomugha:No, because I worked at Empire before I worked at Heat.

1:07:24Jessica Chastain:I know, but you must have been aware of what we did at Heat though.

1:07:28Nnamdi Asomugha:Why would I be aware of what you did at Heat when you were in a completely different building? She worked at Empire.

1:07:34Jessica Chastain:Why would she concern herself?

1:07:36Nnamdi Asomugha:We were at Mapping House on Oxford Street.

1:07:37Jessica Chastain:So we were at a certain time. I think we've all moved between buildings you weren't at that time

1:07:41Nnamdi Asomugha:because I remember when I got my job at Heat which was directly after my job at Empire I had to go to Endeavour House oh okay that's weird why did we have

1:07:49Jessica Chastain:some magazines

1:07:50Tom Blyth:at one building I think because we had multiple buildings due to having too many magazines that's mad

1:07:56Nnamdi Asomugha:the radio stations and everything used to be like we were at Mapping House at one point as well it was crazy anyway yes I have lived and breathed the Big Bang Theory in real life and I think that's why I like it I'm surprised you don't really like it.

1:08:09Tom Blyth:I watched the first I think two or three seasons. I watched the finale as well but I went off it. I think genuinely for me the Big Bang Theory when they all got girlfriends I thought it stopped being funny.

1:08:18Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh God you're one of those people that says friends got rubbish when Monica and Chandler got together. It didn't get

1:08:22Tom Blyth:rubbish but Chandler as a character became dreadful.

1:08:25Nnamdi Asomugha:Or in Frasier when Niall and Daphne get together.

1:08:29Tom Blyth:Frasier was terrible from the beginning so that's fine.

1:08:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Frasier's brilliant.

1:08:32Jessica Chastain:Frasier's brilliant. I mean that is inane but it did absolutely be... Did you even call

1:08:36Nnamdi Asomugha:Steph inane? No, you, you're in there

1:08:38Jessica Chastain:for saying that. Not Steph. No, no, no. Frasier's brilliant. Frasier's brilliant, but it definitely went down a tad when Niles and B. Really? Because that kind of jeopardy

1:08:47Nnamdi Asomugha:wasn't there of like, do you think? And also there were some awful,

1:08:50Jessica Chastain:terrible, cutesy episodes focused on the two of them and they were like, it was awful. I really liked it. No, no, no, no, no. But people get annoyed when I talk about Frasier. Why? Only me, really. Generally, when we discuss things, I always talk about Curb, Frasier and Seinfeld. The same way he talks about Friends, the West Wing and Balestock Lattie. I'm 24 now, apparently.

1:09:08Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah. If I was a regular, I'd talk a lot about Everybody Loves Raymond because I really love that show.

1:09:14Jessica Chastain:It's my mate's favourite show. It's a great show. Yeah, some people absolutely love that show. Elgar. Elgar loves that show. Oh, it is Elgar. Me and Elgar.

1:09:20Nnamdi Asomugha:It's so brilliant. And I feel like it's massively underrated, that show.

1:09:25Jessica Chastain:There was a period where you couldn't get it. It wasn't available. And I had to hunt it down. I hunted it down on DVD from the internet. Really? Yeah, it was quite weird. That and King of Queens.

1:09:33Nnamdi Asomugha:Two shows which were brilliant. Oh, I never liked King of Queens. You never liked King of Queens? It's a great show.

1:09:38Tom Blyth:Oh, interesting.

1:09:38Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay. Anyway. Sorry. We digress.

1:09:41Tom Blyth:Yes, we digressed from news. I don't know where we were. Where were we? No. I think it was my fault though

1:09:45Nnamdi Asomugha:because I started talking about the Big Bang Theory news spin-off. That's right.

1:09:48Tom Blyth:It was a news origin. It was a news origin. I've got three other trailers. I don't know if you've seen them. No. Okay. First of all, there was a teaser trailer for Pluribus, which is Vince Gilligan's new Apple TV sci-fi with Ray Sehorne. Yeah. Doesn't really give much away, which we may or may not have seen. Have you only seen the trailer? I can neither confirm nor deny me neither

1:10:07Nnamdi Asomugha:how have you both seen it?

1:10:08Tom Blyth:I can't possibly as soon as you get sensitive I can't possibly divulge this information what else did I see? I watched the trailer for Lazarus the Harlan Coburn oh yes I have a cuckoo bong series yes

1:10:19Jessica Chastain:I'm very excited about the cuckoo bong nature of this show it looks deranged this is from an original idea by Harlan Coburn but not based on a novel of his which is a new development that is a new development we're used to having huge big Netflix successes

1:10:31Nnamdi Asomugha:and then kind of knowing what was going to happen because if you've read the book.

1:10:34Jessica Chastain:If you've read the book, yeah. But this is a whole new original idea. Danny Brockwell, the regular writer of his stuff, is writing it and stuff, co-writing it. Yeah, it looks really interesting. Yeah, I thought the trailer got me. Actually, I forgot. I watched that. It came out a few days ago, didn't it? Yeah. I'm excited about that. Yeah. There's a screening next week, I think. Oh, is there? I think so.

1:10:53Nnamdi Asomugha:And what was your third trailer?

1:10:55Tom Blyth:The third trailer I watched was, honestly, the most exciting one of all. Oh, God. The Diplomat, season three.

1:11:03Nnamdi Asomugha:okay

1:11:03Tom Blyth:I was just like

1:11:04Jessica Chastain:it looks wild again you've only seen the trailer you've got episodes of The Diplomat I might have no you have not I mean I can't know do you have all the episodes

1:11:15Nnamdi Asomugha:of The Diplomat he's confirming he's definitely got all episodes he's watched the whole thing

1:11:19Tom Blyth:composes email to Netflix live on the podcast

1:11:23Nnamdi Asomugha:you two are so spoiled

1:11:25Tom Blyth:I haven't actually had time to watch it oh my god you are the worst kind of twat sorry so not only do you have it but you're oh I'm too busy to watch this amazing thing that I've got that no one else has got.

1:11:34Nnamdi Asomugha:but he didn't.

1:11:35Tom Blyth:Honestly, you're like a hate figure. Yeah. I'm definitely going to watch that now.

1:11:40Nnamdi Asomugha:He actually is composing an email now.

1:11:42Tom Blyth:I'm literally doing it now. I'm literally doing it now. Oh my God. Don't say, but no, no, no, that Boyd said. The trailer, I'm literally going to say, you said it's a fucking boy, why don't I have it? Children, children,

1:11:50Nnamdi Asomugha:calm down.

1:11:50Tom Blyth:That is literally childlike. I mean, but I'm seriously going to do it. But the trailer, the literal trailer was so good because Bradley Whitford is in it and he's married to Allison Janney's character, which sends my sort of wingnut brain into overdrive. Okay. It's so exciting. You have the face of a soulless woman who doesn't watch The Diplomat.

1:12:08Nnamdi Asomugha:No, I don't watch The Diplomat. I don't, I don't.

1:12:13Tom Blyth:Why?

1:12:14Nnamdi Asomugha:It's kind of crimey in a way. Okay, I'm just going to say this one more time. You two have a lot more time than I do to do stuff like that.

1:12:22Tom Blyth:We have time, you have crime. We're all busy. Oh! we're all busy we're all busy yeah

1:12:28Nnamdi Asomugha:but when I get up I have to get a whole other human being like up and then I have to deal with her I have to dress boy in the morning it takes me ages it's like a whole thing pack him off to work give him his lunch I have like a child and a dog you know like two things that take a lot of time be honest

1:12:42Tom Blyth:which one's the most demanding

1:12:43Nnamdi Asomugha:the dog is quite demanding yeah I'm not even putting Liam into that question it's just like everyone in my house today takes a lot of effort

1:12:51Jessica Chastain:and work so yeah it's not just the question have I got the whole thing I think I do oh my god

1:12:55Nnamdi Asomugha:oh my god you two sorry

1:12:57Jessica Chastain:dear Netflix

1:13:01Nnamdi Asomugha:you like Boyd more than me what the fuck

1:13:03Tom Blyth:is going on

1:13:06Jessica Chastain:by the way you wouldn't believe how childish you was about the morning show oh I would he had that he got that in his in his apple box whatever months before I did so you know there's there's there's backstory to this

1:13:19Nnamdi Asomugha:you two are I don't know you are the worst we are the actual worst They really are.

1:13:24Tom Blyth:I'm so sorry to everyone watching Slash listening. I'm sorry to you.

1:13:28Nnamdi Asomugha:Yes, God.

1:13:29Tom Blyth:Is that all news? Or are there any other screeners that you've got that I don't know about? Okay. Yeah, we're done with this. Yeah, we've retired. We don't need to discover anything else.

1:13:37Jessica Chastain:We're done. Do you know what? I was going to say, actually, seriously, they put out pictures from the new show from created, written and directed by Mackenzie Crook, who fans of The Detectorist, which is a brilliant show, will be very excited about. And the cast of this show is fantastic. it features Mackenzie himself Sophie Willen John Pointing Paul Kay and Sir Michael Palin Michael Palin doesn't do acting much anymore at all so that's quite exciting that's true

1:14:02Tom Blyth:we've had him on the Empire Podcast we did a live show with Michael Palin in I want to say Edinburgh or Glasgow recently no oh my god

1:14:10Nnamdi Asomugha:Catfish has been cancelled

1:14:12Jessica Chastain:I didn't know that

1:14:13Nnamdi Asomugha:sorry I'm on a news

1:14:15Jessica Chastain:but it's been going for like 8 or 9 years 12 years 12 years

1:14:18Nnamdi Asomugha:12 years that's been cancelled When was that cancelled?

1:14:22Jessica Chastain:It was cancelled about a few days ago. 23rd of September. They can give it to another network if they want, can't they? They're not going. MTV said they can move it. Yeah, I mean, we've got enough catfish.

1:14:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, they just need to hang that up now. 12 years is a long time.

1:14:36Tom Blyth:Yeah.

1:14:37Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay.

1:14:38Tom Blyth:It's time for this week's second guest. And it is Tom Blythe, who straps on his six shooters this week as Billy the Kid, which airs on MGM Plus this Sunday. Now, you will, of course, know Tom as the young Corey Elena Snow. from the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. But he is back, back, back for the third, and I want to say final season of this Outlaw Western. Correct. Yoo-hoo, he'll make you famous. No? No Young Guns fans in the house? Okay, never mind. Sorry. Anyway, here's Boydie talking to Tom Blythe.

1:15:08Jessica Chastain:Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Pilot TV Podcast. How are you doing?

1:15:11Nnamdi Asomugha:Hi, Boyd. I'm good, thank you. How are you?

1:15:13Jessica Chastain:Yeah, great, great. Where do we find you today? I'm in New York City. Ah. Where are you? I'm in London City London City yeah in my flat because you've been in Toronto for a few days haven't you I just got back from TIFF two days ago and I'm going again today oh wow that's a hectic schedule it is but it's fun I've just been watching you petting some puppies in Toronto

1:15:41Nnamdi Asomugha:that was the best part of TIFF for me with People Magazine they had a studio where there was a bunch of a bunch of puppies. I'm a dog nut. I love dogs.

1:15:49Jessica Chastain:Oh, really? Okay. Have you got a dog? I do, actually.

1:15:53Nnamdi Asomugha:I rescued a dog in Senegal when I was shooting this film, The Fence, with Claire Denis back to London with me and now she's a Londoner.

1:16:04Jessica Chastain:Oh, fantastic. What's she called?

1:16:05Nnamdi Asomugha:Her name's Callie.

1:16:07Jessica Chastain:Anyway, Billy the Kid, how does a young British guy end up in this iconic role of Billy the Kid in this huge big TV Western drama how did it all happen if we go back

1:16:22Nnamdi Asomugha:to the beginning um I auditioned is the short answer um yeah I was like pretty fresh out of drama school um here in New York in uh where I've spent the past nine years um and it was during the pandemic and so I was kind of like hiding out in the woods in a cabin in the woods um where some friends live in upstate New York and uh trying to figure out how the hell I was gonna pay for food and and lodging um in the pandemic because there was obviously like not much work going on um and I got this audition through um and I put down a self-tape and and uh I think it helped that I was kind of living out in the woods like a hermit and and he was kind of a hermit um and And yeah, I auditioned and after kind of a series of callbacks and auditions, ended up getting the role and then had to learn how to be a cowboy.

1:17:17Jessica Chastain:Yeah, right. Yeah. Because do you ride your own, you do your riding and, you know, it looks very, if you're not doing it yourself, it looks very realistic.

1:17:24Nnamdi Asomugha:No, I mean, actually, one of my favourite things about the show, both as an actor, but also as a TV lover and watcher, is that they let all the actors do our own riding. um so we have amazing stunt doubles who do um a lot of like the second unit stuff and and uh go off and do kind of like the big wide shots and some of the crazier stuff um but especially for me and daniel webber um who plays jesse we get to do um and alex roe who plays pat garrett um we get to do like pretty much all the stuff um which is i think for us it like gives us a feeling of really settling into the characters because it makes you feel physically like you actually are yeah i mean not feel like you are doing stuff so you so it helps it endows you with this feeling of like really living like a cowboy um it changes the way you walk because your ass is sore all the time so you waddle around like a cowboy and uh and you know it changes your physicality but then for the audience like you actually get to watch shots where we're getting up on a horse and then galloping away whereas usually you'll notice when you watch a tv show where actors are riding it cuts away or and all they do is walk a few steps and then it cuts away cuts down to the horse's hooves um and you'll notice in our show there's like there's no cheats

1:18:45Jessica Chastain:absolutely yeah it's it works so well from that point of view it makes it adds to the authenticity massively um but you you are i bet americans are surprised that you're british right when they hear you in this country because you're you you you feel totally american

1:18:59Nnamdi Asomugha:well thank you that's a compliment um yeah i mean i think brits are a surprise i'm british like yes home and just i just semi moved back to england a little bit and uh and i've genuinely been met with by a few people being surprised that i'm british um yeah for whatever reason i've ended up playing a lot of americans throughout my career so far and uh i love it i mean i like i like to transform it's like the the reason i do it is so that i get to transform and and pretend to be other people and i i would not be satisfied if i was only ever able to be one of those actors who plays themselves uh yeah it's just not why i do it so uh so yeah i i like

1:19:36Jessica Chastain:transformation fair enough yeah did you when you when you got the role or even since since you got the run since you've been making the show have you watched other versions of billy the kid like chris christopherson and paul newman and val kilmer yeah i haven't um yet now that we're done

1:19:50Nnamdi Asomugha:I think I'm going to go and watch them all, but I made a point over the past four years of not seeing any of those films. I've obviously seen like a lot of the kind of iconic scenes and clips, but had somehow gone my whole life without seeing like Left Handed Gun or all the other ones. So there's so many iterations that like some of my favorite actors have played. but yeah I kind of avoided them to be honest because I don't want to imitate or or kind of mimic someone else's performance and the Billy we've been making is a very different Billy to the ones that have been done in film before often they're quite Hollywood and kind of you know twinkly eyed and and kind of charming and and sometimes psychopathic and we really wanted to ground this this Billy is kind of like a yes a flawed like a morally flawed sometimes but like also kind of a Robin Hood.

1:20:46Nnamdi Asomugha:I feel like he really is trying to do what's right. And he is kind of on the hero's journey. And so we, we were trying to do something different.

1:20:54Jessica Chastain:Yeah. He does kill people when he needs to, but you get the sense that he's, there is a morality to him.

1:21:00Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah. Yeah. He's like, he's the whole show is about him struggling with his moral compass, basically. And so that was really important to us to ground that in reality.

1:21:09Jessica Chastain:Yeah. Why do you think that he has become, why it's such an iconic legendary figure. I mean, you know, Pat Gowen, Billy the Kid, which is a flawed film, but it's one of my favourite films. It's got that amazing Bob Dylan soundtrack. Yeah, yeah.

1:21:21Nnamdi Asomugha:I didn't realise, like, he wrote that for the film. Yes. Right, yeah. 100%, yeah.

1:21:26Jessica Chastain:It's about Billy the Kid, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1:21:28Nnamdi Asomugha:So, yeah, I assumed that, you know, he'd written that and then it got co-opted into the film,

1:21:33Jessica Chastain:but the other way around. Yeah.

1:21:37Nnamdi Asomugha:What was your question again?

1:21:38Jessica Chastain:It was, why is that, why particularly is b the kid becomes such an iconic figure i mean i think you know in the uk

1:21:44Nnamdi Asomugha:we have robin hood right and it's kind of the guy he's at the people's hero and if you go down to new mexico and arizona as i've done you like people down there genuinely still have a real love for for billy um and like when you visit his grave in um in new mexico you can see why like there's there's like a there's a real like people's hero quality to him um and he you know he was known for like being a man of a man of the people he like at a time when the mexicans in the area were being persecuted and the natives too like they he he made an effort to speak spanish he made an effort to to integrate himself into their community instead of expecting them to integrate with him um which is you know this is a conversation that has only just started happening now in like american society in the past like you know a few decades and in in the 1880s he was mindful of being being a spanish speaker in a spanish community which is like it says a lot about his character i think um and the spanish community spanish speaking community there loved him um and that's like that's well documented so i think though he was kind of hated by the establishment he was loved by the everyman and i think that says everything you need to know about like why his legend has lived on um he is like the kind of he's like the the southwest american answer to robin hood basically yeah that's brilliant yeah it does feel like there is

1:23:21Jessica Chastain:relevance to this show um in the third season i watched the the the opening episode to what's going on today in america without being too political do you do you get that sense that

1:23:32Nnamdi Asomugha:there is there's a kind of connection i'm a big fan of like being human is political i think like i have to be someone who is particularly uh i mean i am but like you know not everyone is is a fan of following politics but um i don't think you have to be overtly political to be a political human being like the act of living is political um one way or another whether you like it or not um and billy is very political in that like he has a view on how things should go like he's trying to run for politics he's not trying to be a politician but he does believe there's corruption and he believes that people are being robbed and that all the riches are flowing to the top and it doesn't take a genius to see the parallels to today's society where we're seeing resources flowing to the top and a lot of people in the middle and at the bottom of the structures struggling to get by and this dissonance that is happening because of it it's happening then too on an even greater scale and I think Michael Hurst is acutely aware of that and he's writing a story that's entertaining and thrilling, but he's also trying to draw parallels.

1:24:49And I think, like, what are we doing as artists

1:24:51Nnamdi Asomugha:and makers of entertainment if we're not also holding up a mirror to society and saying, you know, like making us think about what it is we're doing.

1:25:02Jessica Chastain:You're listed, I saw, as producer in this series. Have you been producer before? And what does that actually mean for you in terms of... I've, like, somewhat produced a few things before

1:25:10Nnamdi Asomugha:and I'm producing a few things for the future at the moment. They're in various stages of production. Yeah, I'm like, I realized in season one and two of this show that I'm not the kind of actor who just wants to be prescribed how everything's going to go. I like to collaborate. One of the things I love about this medium and this industry is how collaborative it is. And I'm like blessed with a creator in Michael Hurst and an exec producer in Donald DeLine, who are also super collaborative. And season one and two, we realized that we were all having input. We were all very invested in the big picture.

1:25:57Nnamdi Asomugha:And so, yeah, they graciously let me be a producer this season so that that could be like in an official capacity. and yeah I think as an actor if you are inclined that way it just empowers you to feel like you have a voice in the room yeah of course and set pieces and stuff

1:26:14Jessica Chastain:so yeah now I you won't know this but I hosted a screening and Q &A for the film Plain Clothes I did after you were busy you couldn't make it because you were filming one of your many projects I asked Russell Tovey this morning if you had a question to ask you yeah his question is how much did you love working with russell tovey and is he humble

1:26:39Nnamdi Asomugha:bloody russell tovey that's the most russell tovey thing i've ever heard from russell yeah uh i love that man dearly um i just saw him the other day for a photo shoot and uh yeah i mean i couldn't i couldn't have asked for a better speaking of collaboration um collaborator in russell um we were lucky to get him we both carmen emmy who's the director of playing clothes and I like really wanted him to play the role and he he flew out to Syracuse and made it with us um I think he's like one of Britain's best I think he is like a legend of tv and film in England and and elsewhere but um he's been a yeah a hero of mine for a long time and I was I was very lucky to work with him well that you're both green like he's brilliant in that film yeah that's all you're

1:27:23Jessica Chastain:both brilliant in that film yeah it's it's absolutely brilliant yeah and it's coming out September in the US and October? Yeah, September 19th, I think, in the US and early October in the UK. Yeah, fantastic. And you've also got two films, haven't you, that you've been talking about in Toronto, right? Wasteman and The Fence.

1:27:42Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, so Wasteman, we just had a premiere for it, the world premiere over the weekend, and then I'm going back tonight for a premiere tomorrow for The Fence, which is the Claire Denis film. And yeah, it's been a busy Toronto film festival for me. and my first one which was a cool way to do it but I'm really excited by both films

1:28:02Jessica Chastain:yeah because you did apart from you did The Hunger Games too obviously which is part of a huge thing but this feels like you've gone for a lot of indie kind of interesting challenging

1:28:10Nnamdi Asomugha:projects as well yeah I mean it's for me it's all about like diversity of projects and roles and just trying to do stuff that surprises me and surprises other people and allows me to stretch as much as I can and never kind of do the same thing twice. So, yeah, yeah, I've been lucky to be able to do, like, the big glossy stuff and then also do the cool indies that, like, tell the stories that need to be told.

1:28:36Jessica Chastain:And what was more fun, frolicking with the puppies or frolicking with Russell Tovey? Frolicking with Russell Tovey. Yeah, he's just a big puppy in himself. He is. He is very much a big puppy in himself, yes. Brilliant. Thank you so much, Tom. Great to meet you and good luck with all your projects and congratulations on Billy the Kid season three, which is definitely the final season, right?

1:28:57Nnamdi Asomugha:There's no, it's, it's, uh, as far as we know, it's the, they've announced it's the third and final season. Um, you never know how these, these things go. Who knows? They might bring us back in like 10 years to see, you know, just tell another part of the story. But yeah, this is the final season. So I hope everyone tunes in to, to see what happens.

1:29:13Tom Blyth:That was Tom Blythe and it's time for this week's reviews. and we begin with Chad Powers on Disney+. And this is a sports comedy created by Glenn Powell and Loki's Michael Waldron. And it sees Powell as a former varsity football star called Russ Holiday whose promising career implodes on account of him being a colossal bellend. Now, unwilling to give up the game, he dons prosthetics and reinvents himself as Chad Powers to give Gridiron another chance. Now, Boyd, you strike me as a man who knows his way around a first down, seeing as you are a lover of all things Americana. So tell us, does Chad indeed have the power?

1:29:50Jessica Chastain:This is interesting, this show, because on one level it should be right on my alley because I really like Glenn Powell. I think he's become a massive star for reasons involving his charm and charisma and good looks. And I was quite excited to see, you know, doing a TV project. And it's also got Steve Zahn from season one of The White Lotus, of course, you saw a lot of in season one of The White Lotus, you may remember. A lot of being an understatement. Exactly. And, you know, it's created by Michael Waldron, who co-created Loki. So, you know, good talent involved. And the story is kind of intriguing because it's this kind of, as you say, this loser, ends up being a loser American football player who basically gets cancelled from his behaviour, for his knob-like behaviour, and reinvents himself literally using latex, makeup, etc.

1:30:44Jessica Chastain:as another person to join it.

1:30:46Nnamdi Asomugha:Because his dad works in that industry, that's why. It's not just a random thing he does. But you know what?

1:30:51Jessica Chastain:I didn't enjoy it. I did not enjoy it. And I'm trying to put my finger on why. Question. Go on. Question. Yeah.

1:30:57Nnamdi Asomugha:Did you watch Eastbound and Down?

1:30:59Jessica Chastain:Yes.

1:30:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Right.

1:31:00Jessica Chastain:Yes.

1:31:00Nnamdi Asomugha:I think that's why you didn't enjoy this. Yes.

1:31:02Jessica Chastain:Because Eastbound and Down is funny.

1:31:04Nnamdi Asomugha:Right. Eastbound and Down. Did you ever watch Eastbound and Down? So East Banderdown, Kenny Powers is the character in East Banderdown. And it's basically the baseball star, you know, and Danny McBride. I just feel that in that role, you need a Danny McBride. Maybe, yeah. You need someone like that. This is not how I want my Glenn Powles, but that's, you know, personal reasons aside. But I watched it and I said, why is this so familiar? Why is this format so familiar? and it doesn't feel as well done and it's not as well done and East Bander and Down, I think four seasons of East Bander and Down and I love that and it's really funny and he is the character, the problem I have with this is Danny McBride's character is the character that Chahad Powers is pretending to be in this, do you see what I mean?

1:31:56Nnamdi Asomugha:When he dons the latex. When he dons the latex. So while, so like Danny McBride is like this authentic because he actually is like that and I just think this is another I don't know

1:32:05Jessica Chastain:this is incredibly based something like this did happen right this is inspired by I believe by a book which detailed how someone did disguise themselves somehow right so it kind of happened

1:32:18Nnamdi Asomugha:rooted in reality it is

1:32:19Jessica Chastain:it is a cuckoo bong story

1:32:22Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah

1:32:22Jessica Chastain:but it is rooted in reality in the loosest of ways I think but for me it was the tone yes it was the tone of it and not so much I don't think it's the tonal shifts which I don't ever mind. They're fine. Terminal shifts are fine. It's just... It's just... It seemed to be attempting to be quite kooky. A lot of Eastbound Down is a very good reference, actually. And a little bit madcap and comedic. I mean, it is trying to be a half-hour comedy. Yes. Described as such in the press release as a half-hour comedy. And yet, it's not that funny.

1:32:56Nnamdi Asomugha:It's not funny.

1:32:57Jessica Chastain:And it's not funny. It's not funny. And it's not half an hour. No, it's not funny. It's barely half an hour.

1:33:02Tom Blyth:Which, weirdly, the savant is, which is a curious one. The episodes are about 32 to 35 minutes. That's all, really? No one's ever going to see the savant. No, that's probably true. The first one's longer, isn't it? It is longer. It might have been, but a lot of the others are. In fact, the finale's also about 45 minutes, but there's a half hour. Do you know what? Just ignore me. Some of them are half an hour. That's what I'm saying.

1:33:20Nnamdi Asomugha:That's why this isn't funny. Yeah.

1:33:22Jessica Chastain:So it's trying to be... You know what, actually, I was thinking is, it's, you know, the best film of the year, which is one battle after another. Is it though?

1:33:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, let's not get into that.

1:33:33Jessica Chastain:Anyway, that has a very specific tone, which actually captures the Thomas Pynchon original novel, which is very loosely based, Vineland. And Thomas Pynchon, I'm going right, this sounds like I'm going completely off the road. Keep going, keep going. Thomas Pynchon has a very specific tone to his stuff. And I've seen people say, not so keen on, like you, James, like, what's the point of this? What is it going for? Thomas Pinch has a kind of absurdist comedy tone to it. And I think that's what this is, Chad Melvise is trying to get a similar tone, unbelievably, to the new Paul Thomas Anderson film.

1:34:09Jessica Chastain:But where PTA's film does brilliantly, I think, relentlessly brilliantly, starting from the very first scene involving Sean Penn, I won't spoil it. This is trying to be a bit weird, a bit kooky, a bit off the wall, a bit kind of bizarre and comedic, but it's not pulling it off. it's not it's not enough and I think it doesn't quite have the courage of its convictions and in fact to go back to your turns out brilliant comparison with East Berndon that did have the courage of its convictions that went really stupid when it wanted to

1:34:38Nnamdi Asomugha:and obviously James

1:34:39Jessica Chastain:doesn't like stupid comedy because it had the cast

1:34:41Nnamdi Asomugha:it had the cast my critique of this

1:34:42Jessica Chastain:is it needs to be more stupid

1:34:43Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah it's not it's not stupid I totally agree with you it's not stupid enough I I do not enjoy Glenn Powell as a comedic actor because I don't think he really?

1:34:54Jessica Chastain:he's in that film What was the film where, you know, the rom-com he did after... Anyone But You? Anyone But You.

1:35:02Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, but he's not funny in that. He's just serious. He's completely serious. And I love that film.

1:35:06Tom Blyth:He's a straight man. But again, he is. He's gently amusing rather than funny.

1:35:11Nnamdi Asomugha:Right, he's gently amusing. Which is what he is in this. But that's not what this requires. No. That's not what this role requires. This role requires a really kind of outlandish character. Yeah. And when he transforms into the supposed outlandish character, he's not outlandish enough. Even the makeup's not outlandish enough. the transformation isn't so it does not land at all he's not a big he doesn't even look that different

1:35:32Tom Blyth:well it's an odd one isn't it because there is an argument why do you cast Glenn Powell if you're going to put him in that wig with those teeth and those prosthetics and make him look like not Glenn Powell

1:35:42Nnamdi Asomugha:I don't think he is the right person for this role

1:35:44Jessica Chastain:I think it's partly showing off as well on his part or the part going look we've got this really handsome guy and we're going to make him look like a complete

1:35:51Nnamdi Asomugha:it's like the whole ugly Oscars thing isn't it it is a bit

1:35:54Tom Blyth:Yeah, it does require that. But there were, and this is unusual for me, there were genuinely two parts in this where I laughed out loud, which I don't normally. That is shocking to me. But I think it's because this isn't silly enough to really do what it wants to do, but it's silly enough for me. And there was a line about Armageddon that genuinely made me laugh. I still think it's genius.

1:36:11Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, yeah. Okay, that is funny.

1:36:13Tom Blyth:And there's a line about writing with your feet as well, which also made me laugh as well. So I kind of enjoyed it, I think, because of that. And if it had been sillier, I probably wouldn't have done. But I totally get your point, that for what it's trying to do, there are insufficient jokes in this. Yeah. Because it is a very silly idea.

1:36:32Nnamdi Asomugha:But also, I just don't care about him. I don't care about Chad Powers.

1:36:36Tom Blyth:Because they've already... I mean, the whole series is going to be a redemption arc, isn't it? For this guy, Russ Holiday, who is a massive bellend, and he's going to become de-bellendified by the end, presumably.

1:36:45Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, but I just want Gunpowder to take his shirt off and go swimming. Do you know what I mean?

1:36:50Jessica Chastain:I think we have different objectives going into this. Which he does in Anyone But You. Oh my God, I've watched that twice

1:36:55Nnamdi Asomugha:and it's even better the second time. Wow, wow.

1:36:59Jessica Chastain:That is the ultimate plane movie. I watched that on a plane. Oh, it's so good, that film. That is literally made for...

1:37:04Nnamdi Asomugha:But it is a good film though, isn't it?

1:37:05Jessica Chastain:It's fun, but as soon as it's over, I've forgotten it. I can't remember. It's two hours of this thing. And it was fun. It's fully enjoyable. It sent Natasha Bedingfield back to the top of the charts, didn't it? Oh my God, yes, it totally did. He's completely naked in it. He is. It's sensational. Sensational. is going a bit far.

1:37:22Nnamdi Asomugha:He is.

1:37:23Jessica Chastain:I mean, but compared to this, compared to Chad Powers, it is sensational. Yeah,

1:37:26Nnamdi Asomugha:I just think this is really, oh, it's flat. It's really flat. It's quite me. Yeah. Yeah. And not in a million years

1:37:33Jessica Chastain:am I attempting to watch any more of it. Oh, God,

1:37:36Nnamdi Asomugha:no way. Jesus Christ. Life's too short.

1:37:38Tom Blyth:I'm sorry. Unlike Snap, I'm sorry,

1:37:40Nnamdi Asomugha:Glenn.

1:37:41Tom Blyth:Chad does not have the power. No. No. But, should you wish to watch it, it's on Disney Plus, when boydy?

1:37:45Jessica Chastain:Disney Plus Tuesday, the 30th September, 2025.

1:37:49Tom Blyth:Fabulous. we should also point out that they have interesting shorthand in this like they're like oh how do we portray him how do we tell people he's a massive bell and we don't have a lot of screen time there we go he drives a cyber truck done now that's shorthand for you anyway anyway next up we have Frauds on ITV and this is created by Saran Jones and Anne Maria O 'Connor and it's a six part series that sees Jones as a con artist released from Spanish prison on compassionate grounds after a terminal diagnosis only to team up with her old partner in crime Jodie Whittaker to take on one last job.

1:38:21Tom Blyth:A crime job, obviously. And who better, of course, than to mark them on the efficacy of said crime than our very own criminologist and editor of Crime Again magazine, Steph Seeland.

1:38:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Yes. Well, when I first looked at this and I thought, wow, these are two giants of British TV coming together. I am going to absolutely love this because I love Saran. I love Jodie. what could possibly go wrong and the lovely publicist said watch the first two episodes together and that was the best advice did you guys watch more than one episode?

1:38:57Jessica Chastain:Yeah I watched the two yeah I did not

1:38:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay well that's interesting I'll be interested to see what you think because after I watched one I was like yeah and then I watched the second and I was like yes I'm so into this and now yeah but she had said that and I think I did say that to you I never listened Okay, anyway. Okay, so...

1:39:18Jessica Chastain:This is a lesson, though, in watching as many episodes as you can. Yeah. That you're given. I know you're a busy man, but...

1:39:24Tom Blyth:No, it wasn't even that. I have to be honest, I struggled to get through the first one. Right, okay. But if you persevered... I really did.

1:39:30Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, so... So, it starts with Jodie picking up Saran for her. She's been in prison. She... I don't think... In the first five minutes, you find out. I don't think it's a spoiler. Saran has got terminal illness and she... Jodie Whittaker is going to take care of her. she takes her to this kind of house that she was placed where she's living in the Spanish mountains and Jodie's all set for just like oh she's just gonna come here and sort of die quietly and actually that's not at all what happens and again I don't think it's any spoilers they want she wants to it eventually becomes clear that she actually wants to go out on a heist I'm gonna put it that way right she wants to go out on a heist she wants to do one last heist and that'll give them enough money like this ridiculous amount of money and what you've missed from not watching the second episode is the brilliant kind of Ocean's Eleven-ness of this female-led drama, which is actually incredibly captivating.

1:40:24Nnamdi Asomugha:Like, to see Jodie and Saran, because they really, like, I think the first episode is a bit of a slow burn, but it ramps up, I think, towards the end of that first episode. And then when you see Jodie kind of coming around to the idea, oh, God, then it really goes apace. And when they're assembling this crew, I think it's brilliant. When they get back into the world that they've come so far away from, It's really exciting.

1:40:46Jessica Chastain:The second episode begins with a kind of contract set piece thing, doesn't it, right? They're dressed as nuns. And that is instantly massively entertaining, intriguing, clever and smart. And I do think they should have got to that earlier. I think they should have got to that towards the end of episode one. At least, almost like just show them as nuns. Show them in the chat. just a minute or two of that could have because episode two is fantastic it absolutely is brilliant I liked episode one and I think it did a good job you've established the premise it establishes the premise pretty well it establishes the idea particularly that Seren Jones' character known Bert is really annoying she's intensely annoying and my prediction is partly was that James is going to find her so annoying that he couldn't deal with it there's some of that but I like the way it pushed just it didn't flinch from showing her at her most kind of irritating.

1:41:43Jessica Chastain:And because Jodie Whittaker's character has got to be immensely irritated by her. That is their kind of friendship. It's a weird situation where there's a toxicity to this

1:41:53Nnamdi Asomugha:friendship.

1:41:54Jessica Chastain:And Jodie Whittaker is the sensible, within the boundaries of being a professional thief, she's the sensible one who's trying to kind of point out... Assert some control over... Assert some control, point out the realities of the situation. And Sir Anne Jones is this absolute maverick loose cannon who who you can't control, who flies off and does this, that, and the other without telling Jodie Whittaker's character. And I thought the interaction, I thought that was really clever and interesting. And I really liked the fact they did not soft-soap just how annoying Soraya Jones was. But I do think that if they just, I think some people will find it, why am I, you know, it just sets up what the heist is going to be, which, by the way, is outrageous.

1:42:32Jessica Chastain:But once you see that opening scene, the opening moments of the second episode, you're really caught by it. oh you're absolutely it really gives you yeah I totally

1:42:40Nnamdi Asomugha:maybe you're right maybe that's what it was

1:42:42Jessica Chastain:James is about to hold forth on the first episode but we should caution I totally you're totally right that you have to watch both episodes you have to watch

1:42:48Nnamdi Asomugha:both episodes don't please do not please don't give up on this because it is well worth it like if you watch the second episode like I said you will be captured it's brilliant and just they look like they're enjoying it so much as well yeah it's just it's fantastic

1:43:07Jessica Chastain:Because partly before James chimes in, partly because Jodie Whittes' character, who's a bit, because in contrast to...

1:43:13Nnamdi Asomugha:She's really uptight. She's a bit uptight.

1:43:15Jessica Chastain:And yet you see her let loose instantly.

1:43:17Nnamdi Asomugha:And that's so fun to see. Yeah, it's so fun. It's so good. Exactly.

1:43:19Tom Blyth:They know this, though, clearly, which is why they told you to watch the first two episodes, a memo that I didn't get. But they do know this, because at the end of the first episode, there's a kind of a sizzlery. There's like a this season on frauds, even though it is a limited series. It's a limited series, isn't it? Yes. And what kind of threw me is, I was like, this is a different show. Like, what is happening? When I saw the What's Coming Up, I was like, this is a show I wanted to watch. Why did I just watch this hour of boring shit? And I really, really...

1:43:46Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, that's slightly unfair, Jones.

1:43:47Tom Blyth:No, I genuinely was relieved when the first episode ended. What? I think, Boyd, he's not wrong. I found Seren Jones' character quite grating. She is deliberately so. But because it is slow, because they weren't doing anything, quote-unquote, interesting, I was just like, this... There's no momentum to this. And I'm not invested.

1:44:05Nnamdi Asomugha:So makes up for it.

1:44:06Tom Blyth:Well, and, right, and the sizzle reel, everything in that was gold. I mean, deliberately, so, like, it's a sizzle reel. They cut the best, but they've been shit bits in the sizzle reel. But that made me interested, but I'd had such a bad time for the last hour, I was like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just not. But, also, I only had one episode. But, I, uh...

1:44:23Nnamdi Asomugha:No, I gave you the thing with two episodes. Oh, did you? Yes.

1:44:26Tom Blyth:Oh, sorry, I missed that. Oh, my God, that's totally awful.

1:44:28Nnamdi Asomugha:I feel like you can't have an opinion about this, because you haven't done what you were told to do. Like, I gave you two episodes, like, I gave you the instructions, I literally forwarded that email with the instructions on it. I'm so sorry, Steph. He managed to find time to watch all those episodes

1:44:41Jessica Chastain:of 24 or something. A show that no one else

1:44:44Nnamdi Asomugha:who listens to this podcast can ever watch. I'm so sorry, Steph. I've let you down.

1:44:48Jessica Chastain:I've let everyone down. You've let Steph down, you've let me down, you've let yourself down.

1:44:51Tom Blyth:I've let the whole podcast down.

1:44:52Jessica Chastain:You've let Saran Jones down, you've let Jodie Whittaker down. I'm so sorry, Saran and Jodie, this is a personal apology. Can I just say, we will be hearing from Yeah, they're on the podcast next week. Next week's podcast. She is in brilliant form, just generally.

1:45:05Nnamdi Asomugha:powerhouses they're just like I really I don't just enjoy it because I mean it is brilliant but God getting them together like oh what it's genius it's absolutely genius I could see them having another series of this like I know obviously the way they've set it up they're not going to

1:45:22Jessica Chastain:yeah it's a it's a limited series it feels it's definitely I mean there's a very real possibility

1:45:29Tom Blyth:one of the characters is going to die yes but genuinely who knows who knows

1:45:34Nnamdi Asomugha:why do you think Boyd that they didn't kind of introduce sort of that exciting, you know. Good stuff.

1:45:43Jessica Chastain:Okay, stop. I think that because if you think they were laying the groundwork, there's a lot of characters to introduce because they introduce some of the characters to who then…

1:45:51Nnamdi Asomugha:Well, that's the other thing that then come into it. So they needed to have their kind of stories as well, like the magician.

1:45:55Jessica Chastain:I mean, I wasn't ever bored by it. I think that's a joke. That may be a me thing. I was neither bored nor irritated. And I actually enjoyed just how far they pushed the Sharon Jones character. Yeah. so I'm on board with it my view is I just think they could have if they'd just brought in as I said the

1:46:10Nnamdi Asomugha:we would have got a better review from James we would have definitely

1:46:13Jessica Chastain:got a better review from James and I think it needed that maybe they wanted to maintain the kind of there's a kind of visual quality to it and then suddenly you cut to this thing that happens at the beginning of episode 2 but I think they should have

1:46:24Nnamdi Asomugha:brought it forward that scene at the beginning of episode 2 is absolutely sensational

1:46:29Jessica Chastain:I think it's better what was the female Oceans film in fact what was that one Oceans 8 I think it's better than Ocean's Lake which it has quite a lot in common because it is essentially gathering a female crime gang to carry out this heist but I think this is better I think that was disappointing that film and this does a better job

1:46:46Tom Blyth:but this is why so many shows do that you know cold open here's some exciting shit now we're going to give you 45 minutes of boring stuff but we're promising the exciting stuff is coming back this is why they do it because I think in this world of like thousands of streaming services channel surfing ADHD viewers limited attention spans You need to grab people straight off the bat, or at least within the first hour, or they aren't going to come back because there's so much else on their respective side for this.

1:47:12Jessica Chastain:I think it is grabby enough. I do too. I just think it could have been way more. It could have been just a little bit more with the fun element that begins at episode two.

1:47:20Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, but it's the promise of the fun to come that makes you want to watch. You know, that...

1:47:25Tom Blyth:Delayed gratification. I just don't do well with it. I don't know what's happening.

1:47:28Nnamdi Asomugha:No, clearly not.

1:47:29Tom Blyth:No. Netflix still haven't replied about The Diplomat.

1:47:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Anyway, let's move on. 10 minutes? Fucking hell. Let's move on. You've had too much mochi ice cream. Yeah, that's true. Definitely. Ripped to the tits on mochi balls.

1:47:42Jessica Chastain:When's this on, Boyd? Frauds is on Sunday. It begins this Sunday, the 5th of October and carries on on Monday. It's on Sunday and Monday for the next three weeks, basically. ITV 1 2025.

1:47:51Nnamdi Asomugha:Definitely, definitely watch it. Yes.

1:47:54Jessica Chastain:It's fun. And watch the first two.

1:47:55Tom Blyth:Yes. At least. It's fun. 100%. We've got one more show. Aha! Oh God. Oh God. It's Alan Partridge. Yes, Alan is back in his latest incarnation, which sees the tragic entertainer taking a step back from the chat show so far and instead making a show about mental health. Because who better to help people deal with their own issues than Alan Partridge? Steph, where do you stand on Alan as a whole? Are you a Partridge fan?

1:48:20Nnamdi Asomugha:I am an obsessed Partridge fan. Oh, you are? I absolutely love Alan Partridge and I love this show with every fibre of my being. Well, in which case, let's hear it.

1:48:30Tom Blyth:Knowing me, James Dyer, knowing you, Steph Seelan,

1:48:32Jessica Chastain:she hadn't even waited for his joke that he was doing there I have to say

1:48:38Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm probably not I probably don't know the intricacies of Alan Partridge as well as our resident Boyd Hilton but I love every incarnation of Alan Partridge and I love this show and I think it's as good if not better than all his previous work I just think the way Big words. Well, I just, I laughed out loud at all of it. It was so, it's just so clever. Who wrote this? Because he wrote it. It is. And then, because it's not one boy.

1:49:17Jessica Chastain:It's Neil and Rob Gibbons, the brothers who've been writing Alan since Midmorning Matters. Right. I think almost for like 10, 15 years now. Certainly 10. Yes, yeah. So they've been co-creating Alan through all of his most recent stuff.

1:49:32Nnamdi Asomugha:And the brilliant thing about this first episode is it's kind of a bit of a redemption story in a way because he sort of goes back to Midmorning Matters, which is one of my favourite things about it. The way that he explains how he's doing this show about finding out that the only explanation for the way he was feeling is he'd caught some mental health. It was just so brilliant. because I find with Alan Partridge, he has, because he is Alan Partridge, he has that incredible way of doing things without, like you can't be offended by it. Like if you take, you know, like,

1:50:02Jessica Chastain:yeah, no, well, it's about, it's about people making stuff about mental health rather than it being about mental health. It's not about mental health.

1:50:09Nnamdi Asomugha:This is about people saying, it's about, it's about a lot. I'm not saying, mental health problems are very serious and awful and I'm not trivializing that at all. But he's kind of talking about the sort of, I would say, I don't know, what is it that people don't know?

1:50:26Jessica Chastain:As Alan himself. I'm putting it in Alan as well. Alan himself pertently says, this is the first ever documentary on mental health. That's all you need to know.

1:50:36Nnamdi Asomugha:But I love it. When he goes back to his radio station, and when he goes back to the radio station, the absolute peak of this episode was when they have the session, he has the session with Simon, where they do the I feel method during an interview. And for me, that is the absolute peak of this episode. It's so clever.

1:50:59Jessica Chastain:That is, you're absolutely right. That is one of the best scenes in the history of Alan Partridge.

1:51:02Nnamdi Asomugha:Isn't it?

1:51:03Jessica Chastain:It's like, I compare it to Robert De Niro and Al Pacino in Heat, in the film Heat. Wow. They come together, because you've been waiting for this ages. Partridge fans have been waiting to see what's happened to Psychic Simon after they worked together on this time, the one-show style thing. and they have a massive falling out and they are literally like hammer and tongs at each other. It's a brilliant coming together of two genius characters because Tim Key is... I consider Alan Partridge to be the funniest TV comedy character in history, right? And among the most long running. He's been going for like 30 years.

1:51:36Jessica Chastain:But Tim Key as Psychic Simon is up there with... He's like now one of the funniest comedy characters on TV as well. And so is Lynn, by the way.

1:51:43Nnamdi Asomugha:Lynn, oh my God. And the two of them...

1:51:46Jessica Chastain:Lynn is in it throughout, thank God.

1:51:47Nnamdi Asomugha:I was so... Do you know what? it was such a warm feeling to see her in it and she dressed exactly the same just in you know Lynn uniform and just oh god

1:51:57Jessica Chastain:the other hysterical difference is them in the car together when she makes a move and he swears at her oh yeah absolutely brilliant

1:52:07Nnamdi Asomugha:but also the other scene in the there's a scene where he goes to a soup kitchen and explains why why he's not been at the soup kitchen I mean it's just so many laugh out loud moments it's absolutely I would say like it's yeah I think it's up there as the best I agree

1:52:21Jessica Chastain:I totally agree and I went to a screening of this they showed the first two episodes and also at the Curzon Saho by the way same place as I saw the Lucy Letby very different experience no one shouted at the screen this time but what it was the most voluble laughter I've ever seen at a screening of anything I'm including comedy films and you know people were in hysterics

1:52:41Nnamdi Asomugha:it's a tonic it's a real tonic for the time it is a tonic

1:52:45Jessica Chastain:and even now just thinking about it Thinking about it and describing what we've seen, it makes you smile because it's so funny. And what I love about what they've done is, the Gibbons, I think their key to it is, they allow the silliness to come through. Yes, so true. And they allow all kinds of different ways of Alan being funny. If it's funny for them, they'll go for it. They'll put it in. And so you've got loads of different, there's a clip of when he goes to see Psychic Simon and they have clips of when they did Rash Decision,

1:53:14Nnamdi Asomugha:which was their own

1:53:19Jessica Chastain:slot where people would send them pictures of their rashes and they would work out what they've got what the diagnosis was even though as they point out neither of them are medically trained although it's just chock-a-block every single scene certainly in this first episode and I've watched the whole thing

1:53:35Nnamdi Asomugha:oh have you? does it carry on like that?

1:53:37Jessica Chastain:absolutely hilarious it goes down, there's Jetpack in episode 2, that's all you need to know because they come up with so many brilliant things for Alan to do that it is just an absolute joy there's a reference to Greg Wallace in the voiceover in the first episode they've just done an incredible job and it's what I love about it is I often say that the for Partridge fans his podcast from the Oast House is the funniest thing because it's literally 100 % Alan like you just you hear references to Lynn in the background you hear other voices but it's just Alan, Alan, Alan for like four and a half hours.

1:54:15Jessica Chastain:This is as close as you get to that in the TV form. Right. It's him front and centre constantly throughout the whole thing. So if you don't like Alan, I bet Alan fans are just going to absolutely love it. The immersion into his mind, his deranged mind and world.

1:54:29Nnamdi Asomugha:If you love it, that's exactly, it's a full immersion. It feels like you're back with him and you're like, thank God.

1:54:35Jessica Chastain:He's got a new girlfriend, right? Oh, he's so funny. Paid by Katherine Kelly, brilliantly. But you only see it, glimpses off her throughout. You don't really, but you see enough of her to know who she is and what she is and what's going on with Alan. And if you compare it to I'm Alan Partridge which was genius both series back in the day they made characters of his then girlfriend and it was more of a it was a sitcom whereas this is sticking to the idea that he's making this thing all about himself and he's not going to give time to anyone else probably if he doesn't if he doesn't want to including his problematic shall we say girlfriend played by Catherine Kelly.

1:55:08Jessica Chastain:It is fucking joyous. There's also

1:55:10Nnamdi Asomugha:sorry we're just giving away all the things but there's another scene where you go into his loft to look at some of his old, and he finds an old tape, an old audition tape. And again, just like I said, when I say it's a tonic for our time, all the references, you know, they're so cleverly done. And if you come to this, it's a way, they've somehow made all the things that are like people find offensive these days, and they've just turned it brilliantly by like you said, immersing you in Alan's world. it's clever it's laugh out laugh funny it's perfect actually it's pretty damn perfect I agree James you don't like it

1:55:51Tom Blyth:I still don't fully understand Alan Bob it is true God

1:55:54Nnamdi Asomugha:oh my God

1:55:55Tom Blyth:but don't get me wrong I enjoyed this episode as you said the Tim Key scene my close personal friend Tim Key who was on the Empire Podcast it's a genius it's a genius scene but everything because he's a character he's such an absurd character deliberately absurd so having him sort of pontificate on mental health is inherently entertaining. Yes. Because everything he says is deeply, deeply stupid. And it is genuinely very funny. It's not quite, I would say, my sense of humour. So while I had a really good time watching it, I'm not sure I'm going to continue watching it because I've never continued with any Alan Partridge.

1:56:28Nnamdi Asomugha:You've never watched... No, I've seen episodes here and there.

1:56:31Tom Blyth:And it's good and it's fine, but I don't love it.

1:56:33Nnamdi Asomugha:You don't like comedy, do you?

1:56:34Tom Blyth:This is part of the problem, yes. This is dealing with a soul

1:56:38Jessica Chastain:that's husk of a human.

1:56:39Nnamdi Asomugha:I just, I just, I don't, I don't know how you can not find it funny.

1:56:44Jessica Chastain:Yeah. I get it. Dead inside. Do you? Yeah. How long have we known this?

1:56:49Tom Blyth:Actually, yeah, I mean, that's true. I think perhaps it just hits a little bit too close to home.

1:56:54Nnamdi Asomugha:I was going to say that, but I was a bit scared. Yeah, I don't know.

1:56:58Tom Blyth:I'm like, yeah, this seems perfectly reasonable. Alan's just, it's just normal. Yeah, maybe that's what it is.

1:57:01Jessica Chastain:You know what, I did see them thinking, I mean, James does do partridges. Oh, he really does. Inadvertently, inadvertently, on a regular basis. But also, I thought this was the most kind of Richard Maidley-ish incarnation of Alan. He's been down that a lot. Funnily enough, he did mention Richard Maidley in the screening, in the Q &A afterwards. And I think this is really hardcore Maidley for me now. You know the way Richard Maidley, I watched him on Good Morning Britain yesterday, funnily enough. Because I was like, oh my God, it's part two. It's Maidley cool. It's full on. The way he kind of sees himself as a bit, and I love Richard Maidley, by the way.

1:57:36Jessica Chastain:He's been in your bed. He has, along with Judy. We did the first shoot for Heath. I said another story. Anyway, but he basically feels he knows everything about everything. Like, that is the kind of bottom line of Richard Maitley and Alan. And Alan has that quality to him. And just the way he says stuff, he will put emphasis on weird words in a sentence and just go a little bit, and Alan does that. Alan pronounces the WH words the whole time. And you have weird pronunciation. Richard Maitley does the same thing. it's weird how how similar they are the other one to mention is Friend of the Pod Rufus Jones is in an episode later I think it's in episode 5 and he plays a lawyer and that is a hilarious brilliant scene oh I can't wait to watch them all it's fantastic how are you

1:58:19Tom Blyth:it's Boyd brackets Hilton

1:58:20Jessica Chastain:yeah indeed anyway it's on BBC One BBC One Friday the 3rd of October 9.30pm 2025 and I think they're putting the whole thing out on the iPlayer which fans will immediately want to devour

1:58:33Nnamdi Asomugha:from Friday okay that's great Great news for me.

1:58:36Tom Blyth:Great news. Brilliant. What else is on this week? Well, Blue Lights, you've mentioned. Yeah, I mentioned Blue Lights. Which is the third series of Blue Lights, and that's on Monday, today, the 29th. Also today, Star Wars Vision Series 3 drops on Disney+.

1:58:48Jessica Chastain:I don't know what that is.

1:58:51Tom Blyth:I mean, if you're into Disney +, animated Marvel stuff, Marvel Zombies drops on Friday. Oh, okay, I'll definitely be watching that. Are you serious?

1:58:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, because Gracie loves all that. She loves all zombies.

1:59:03Tom Blyth:I mean, it's all brain-eating and violence.

1:59:04Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah she loves that kind of stuff

1:59:05Tom Blyth:I'm not sure it's appropriate is it not

1:59:07Nnamdi Asomugha:is he sure

1:59:08Tom Blyth:I'm reasonably sure it's not appropriate I couldn't say 100 % but you know what else is on this week

1:59:14Jessica Chastain:well Nine Bodies in a Mexican Morgue started on Saturday which we didn't have time to mention last week and that is a Anthony Horowitz story it's like a kind of whodunit and then there were none type thing meets lost

1:59:26Nnamdi Asomugha:oh that sounds good with Eric McCormack

1:59:28Jessica Chastain:and others it does look really good actually Kay previewed it and he gave it four stars the thing that with Netflix right often when you're trying to get screeners like you've just tried to do with The Diplomat and they'll say when they're going to become available blah blah blah the show that they are not putting any screeners out for at all arrives this Friday and that is Monster the Ed Gein story yeah which we were hoping to do on next week's Pilot Plus but they're not putting any it's not until Friday do you know

2:00:02Nnamdi Asomugha:anything about Ed Gein? Yeah, I mean, quite a lot.

2:00:05Jessica Chastain:But what's interesting is about, I'm absolutely fascinated to see this because it's the Ed Gein story but it's got, you know how Ed Gein inspired Psycho? Yes, of course. The Anthony Perkins character. Well, in this series they're going to have Psycho, the making of the film, as an element of the story. So there's an, so there's someone, so basically Tom Hollander plays Alfred Hitchcock in it. Okay. And another actor plays Anthony Perkins, for example. And Laurie Metcalf plays Ed Gein's mother Vicky Creeps from Phantom Thread. She plays a Nazi war criminal. It's got maverick casting.

2:00:39Nnamdi Asomugha:Laurie Metcalf is an incredible actress. She does not get enough respect. She is incredible.

2:00:45Jessica Chastain:Leslie Manville's in it. Leslie Manville? Oh my God. Even by Ryan Murphy's standards, the cast is extraordinary. The whole idea of it is weird. It's going to have psycho in it. It's a bit weird. So I can't wait. But they're not going to... Why are they not doing that? It says we're not sending out screeners.

2:00:58Nnamdi Asomugha:Why?

2:01:00Jessica Chastain:Who can say?

2:01:01Tom Blyth:Who can say?

2:01:02Nnamdi Asomugha:Maybe when we watch it, we'll find out.

2:01:03Tom Blyth:Well, hopefully, we're going to cover that on next week's Pilot Plus. Oh, are we? Or this week's Pilot Plus. Say next week. Because next week as we record, it's this week as we go out.

2:01:10Jessica Chastain:It is Monday. It will be Thursday. By the way, there is a two-part Channel 4 documentary starting on Tuesday called Taylor, which is about Taylor Swift. Sorry, we're doing that on Pilot Plus.

2:01:20Tom Blyth:We're no longer doing Monster. We are now doing that on Pilot Plus. See, James suddenly is converted.

2:01:24Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you like Taylor? He's obsessed with her. Are you? Why are you obsessed with her? It's like you don't listen to this podcast. I have a lot of other things to do. But I didn't know you loved Taylor Swift. Yeah, I'm a big Swifty. Is it you, Swifty? Did you go and see her?

2:01:37Tom Blyth:Yes. Of course I did. Of course I did. You really need to listen to her. I'm sorry, did you go to the door? I refer you to the episode of the podcast where I delivered a 13-minute monologue about the odyssey that I went through to get tickets for the Eurostore.

2:01:47Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you like Sabrina Carpenter?

2:01:49Tom Blyth:No, not really.

2:01:50Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh.

2:01:50Tom Blyth:I like a few of her songs.

2:01:52Jessica Chastain:He's 100 % Swift.

2:01:53Tom Blyth:Yeah. What's your favourite Taylor Swift song? Exile from Folklore.

2:01:56Nnamdi Asomugha:Jesus, that was a quick answer. Oh, my God. He's obsessed with it, yeah. Seriously. Wow.

2:02:01Jessica Chastain:So that's for you. You can watch that on Tuesday on Channel 4. Billy the Kid started yesterday, Sunday, on MGM+. If you've got that, the aforementioned Billy the Kid, we've got the Tom Blythe interview for. And there's a show called Borderline on Friday on ITV, which is an Irish drama, which is a bit like The Bridge. It's like a crime on the border of Northern Ireland. Oh, I love those ones. And mainland Ireland.

2:02:21Nnamdi Asomugha:Like Thingy. What was that brilliant one with the, like, you know, where that person got killed on the... The tunnel. Oh, sorry, did you just say that? The other bridge. Broughan. there's a whole

2:02:29Jessica Chastain:yeah there's a whole load of different versions of it oh I love that it feels like a bit like that borderline is what it's called and that's that was on MGM Plus and that's coming to ITV1 on Friday at nine o 'clock there you go

2:02:41Nnamdi Asomugha:amazing

2:02:42Jessica Chastain:what is our pick of the week? well I mean for me it's Alan Partridge it's

2:02:46Nnamdi Asomugha:I mean I love I love Fawls as well Alan my heart is saying Alan he's a tonic for our time as I've said

2:02:54Tom Blyth:Taylor then on channel four thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Pilot TV podcast. If you enjoyed it, we would love you to give us a five-star rating on whatever podcast platform you choose. And please do follow us on the socials at James C. Dyer. Mainly on Instagram now. I'm basically off Twitter pretty much at this point. Why? Because it's just toxic and I can't be dealing with it. So I'll occasionally read my mentions but I'm largely off there. So I'm mainly just on Instagram now. Okay. But you're on across various platforms at Stephanie Seelan? Steph Seelan? My name is

2:03:24Nnamdi Asomugha:at Steph Seelan.

2:03:25Tom Blyth:Okay, just one word. That's it.

2:03:27Nnamdi Asomugha:At Steph Sealand. At Steph Sealand.

2:03:29Tom Blyth:At Boyd Hilton at Pilot TV Pods. On next week's show. What are we going to be doing next week? So we will have Jodie Whittaker and Saran Jones on the podcast, which will be very exciting. Amy Lou Wood and Saran Jones will also be on the podcast, which means next week it's literally a... Oh, no, did we... Jodie Whittaker is on her own,

2:03:46Jessica Chastain:confusingly. Oh, right. And then Amy Lou Wood and Saran Jones are together.

2:03:51Tom Blyth:So we do have Saran Jones next week, but it's not for frauds. It's for Film Club with Amy Lou Wood. And we just have Jodie Whittaker so that we don't have a double-decker Saran Jones episode. No.

2:04:00Jessica Chastain:But we came pretty damn close to it. We came very close. It is Saran Jones week. And I mean, it's only been about months with Saran Jones in that thing on Netflix, which I forgot the name of. Yeah, that one. Kidnapped, no.

2:04:13Tom Blyth:Hostage! Hostage! Hostage! That's the one, hostage.

2:04:16Nnamdi Asomugha:She's a great lady.

2:04:17Tom Blyth:Yeah.

2:04:17Nnamdi Asomugha:Great lady.

2:04:18Tom Blyth:Very, very good. What else will we be on? We will probably be doing Film Club next week. We might be doing season two or series two of Dreaming Whilst Black. also The Last Frontier is on Apple that might be embargoed but we'll find out yeah I think it is embargoed good times right well that's it for the show I am off to have a chat with Netflix about the diplomats I've probably slightly think I wasn't even supposed to mention that I've got it oh for God's sake you've got such trouble oh you're in trouble now you're in trouble now you're in trouble now Boydie God

2:04:48Nnamdi Asomugha:okay

2:04:48Tom Blyth:pilot out

2:04:55You