Cross, Betrayal, and Small Prophets

29:35And then you could pivot straight from that to Strange New Worlds. So that would be quite a fun thing to do. So you could go down that route, though I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. I would go, I would go, the films, that is my entry point for you. Okay. I would say watch those films up to Undiscovered Country. Then I would pivot, pivot, straight to TV, go straight to Next Generation, skip the whole of season one because it's dreadful. The first one, Encounter at Farpoint, you're going to need to watch at some point because it introduces a major character, John Delancey's Q, but it's a really boring two-parter.

30:03What you really want to do is start with season three, but there's a good episode in season two called The Measure of a Man, which I would recommend, but I would go straight to season three. Well, also in season two, maybe Q Who, because that introduces the Borg and you need that as well. Season three, Deja Q, Yesterday's Enterprise, and then The Best of Both Worlds, Parts 1 and 2. And then those are all great episodes. And then just, I would cherry pick the good episodes going forward. Although, to be honest, everything for season three is watchable. But things like Darmok, iBorg, The Game with Ashley Judd, you know the one with the little video game, right?

30:33Oh, yes. That's a really fun one. Ensign Row, which is brilliant, introduces Michelle Forbes, she's fabulous. Schisms is great Chain of Command is amazing genuinely amazing television when it's one of the best episodes of Next Gen ever made if not the best it's one where Captain Picard gets abducted by the Cardassians that's Cardassians not Cardassians that'd be a very different type of show I made Terry watch that she thought it was wonderful I think Tapestry's really good there's also an episode called Lower Decks which is good but not to be confused with the adult animation Lower Decks which I get a lot of shit for because I don't like it and a lot of people do if you're really into to adult animation, maybe watch that.

31:08But I feel like unless you already know Star Trek, a lot of its charms will be lost on you. So I'd probably give that a wide berth. And then once you've delved into that, I would go to DS9 because DS9 is wonderful. Again, terrible first season. Maybe you watched Duet, that's pretty good. Why? Why is it a terrible first season? With the exception of Discovery and Strange New Worlds, not including modern Trek, but classic Trek has always started badly. Voyager, Deep Space Nine, Next Generation, Enterprise, they have all been dreadful out of the gate and they take a while to find their feet so you've always got like so starting at the beginning which I would normally recommend is actually not to be recommended but Deep Space Nine episodes The Search Parts 1 and 2 which was the Season 3 opener that's when it all really starts to ramp up really really good stuff what else Past Tense Heart of Stone are really good The Way of the Warrior in Season 4 which is the turning point for Deep Space Nine because two things happen Michael Dorn crosses over from Next Generation as Worf and Avery Brooks as Cisco shaves his head and grows his beard and that That is the turning point for that show.

32:06Once he shaves his head, it fucking kicks up a notch. I don't think I've ever seen you look this happy. Oh, come on. I genuinely don't think I have. You know. You've seen him talk about Foundation, and what was the one you absolutely banged on about for ages? The Expanse. The Expanse, yeah. It's all the same. Make sure you watch Subspace Rhapsody, which is the musical episode of Strange New Worlds. That's loads of fun. But yes, right, to recap, to answer your actual question, the films, two... three, four, and six. That's where you start. Then you pivot, pivot, to next generation, and you start working your way through next generation, beginning with the season one, well, the season two episode, The Measure of Man, I'd maybe start there.

32:49And then, the episodes that I mentioned, so, you know, Q Who, Yesterday's Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, Darmok, Iborg, The Game, et cetera, et cetera. I just go straight into Deep Space Nine, and it's lovely. You'll have a great time. Or else, you can watch the original series, The city on the edge of forever and you have a great time. Thanks, bye. Deep Space Nine is the best, I should be said, but I think you need to build up to that. All right. I think you need to build up to it. I don't know if any of this has been helpful or even, if I'm honest, coherent. There we go. That was a question answered.

33:18I don't know the answer to that. If you would like your question answered in that kind of minute forensic detail, do send them in pilot.tv at empiremagazine.com via the miracle of email. You could have done a whole podcast on that. I could. And you almost did. I nearly did. I nearly did. Don't encourage him. Don't suggest such things. Do you know what? So I was prepared to talk about that in greater length and at less speed. But the various blank expressions I was getting from the two of you, I felt like I had to gavel. It's because I can't remember specific episodes because I haven't... Do you know what?

33:49I'm going to do a re-watch. I'm going to Deep Space Nine re-watch. Do a complete DS9 re-watch. I'm going to do it. Oh, God. So, okay, let's dig into this episode briefly since we're talking about this stuff. I actually didn't know that you were a Trekkie. This is news to me. This is very exciting. Well, I have an older brother. Right. And he's three years older than me. So sort of by proxy, anything that he was watching, I had to watch, which is why I love Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, right? And all of those. And really, truly, why I love kind of MCU, why I love all superheroes, anything. Like all of that stuff is because I had an older brother.

34:22But now I love it for myself, like I was saying earlier. Like now I've got to that great age with my child, which is really and truly the only reason to have a child so you can relive all your watching experiences younger. So we've just shown her Spider-Man and she's like, is this the same as Spidey and his amazing friends, which is the cartoon? I'm like, no, now you need to watch real Spider-Man, you know, and she loves Iron Man and all that kind of stuff. But so yeah, all that, I love all that. Star Trek's amazing. Like Star Trek's such a, it's like, this is the thing about, like you say about Kay, like I think Kay would really enjoy Deep Space Nine.

34:56I think she'd get into it and she would like it. I think she would. I know she wouldn't. I'm going to ask her. Boy, did you back me up here? What now? Because there's emotion, there's romance, there's, you know, there's a lot of depth. It's in space. Yeah. I know this because I literally made her watch an episode of Deep Space Nine and she was having none of it. I'm going to talk to her. I think I can talk to her in a way. It was Kay. I did get Kay to watch Deep Space Nine, wasn't it? Yes, we watched, that's what I got. I think so. I got Terry to watch Next Generation, but Kay I made watch an episode of Deep Space Nine.

35:25I think that's something incredibly comforting about being in Star Trek world. I agree. Don't you? I'm sure we asked someone to watch to watch the season on Asia forever as well but I can't remember I don't think we did because I'm absolutely convinced we haven't done it for this podcast but yes Star Trek was always my happy place when I was quite anxious as a teenager I used to I've mentioned this in the podcast before it's not my finest hour I had the Star Trek Enterprise NCC1701D technical manual and that was a comfort read for me I said if I was feeling like really stressed out I would read the technical manual to the Enterprise I had that as well did you?

35:59He had a mauve cover. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah. It was great. It was brilliant, yeah. It was like, what detail they created for this fucking fictional world. It's absolutely brilliant. Yeah, but it's wonderful, isn't it? Because it's a level of escapism that you really can't achieve nowadays. Oh, you can, because obviously these shows do exist, but there's something about Trek which is different. There is something about Trek which is different, but what I mean when I say that is, I think the escapism that you can achieve when you're watching sci-fi as a child is different because your brain is working differently so you're so immersed in it.

36:35So all of my wonderful, joyful feelings about watching Star Trek as a child, I don't think I can replicate that as an adult because, do you understand what I mean? I do. Because you can really immerse yourself. Star Trek was a solace for me as a teenager in a way that nothing else was. Next Gen in particular was kind of my era of Star Trek and I remember when I first saw the pilot for that, I actually rented it out of the local, it wouldn't have been Blockbuster Video, it probably would have been a Ritz at the time, and they had Encounter at Farpoint, parts one and parts two, and I was like, what the hell is Star Trek The Next Generation?

37:08Because I'd watched the original Trek as a boy, I was like, okay, and I rented that out, and that began my obsession, and then during university, it was all about Deep Space Nine, and again, the video store would have, like, double episodes, right? So you'd rent out, and it would have two episodes on it, and I would rent those all the time as they dropped at university, as I was watching Deep Space Nine. And yeah, I loved all of that stuff, Voyager. And I think because I did suffer from anxiety quite a lot as a teenager, I would be able to just disappear into that show. That's what I'm saying.

37:38And I don't know whether it was like hours of Jeffrey's tubes or Data walking down the corridor. I don't know what it is about it. But even now when I watch it, it kind of, it makes me feel a bit warm and fuzzy. I agree. And I think the other thing is, I think that Star Trek is an accessible sci-fi because a lot of the situation on board the Enterprise is actually quite domestic. Do you know what I mean? So you actually kind of, you don't feel, it's not like your beloved foundation, which I have watched. It's quite dense. Yeah, but it does feel accessible. It feels like an accessible world. It feels like you kind of know these people and you can get to know these characters and yes, okay, it sounds ridiculous.

38:16Yes, they're in space, but they don't feel that far removed. Does that make sense? It's also not that ridiculous anymore. No, it isn't ridiculous. No. Just to go back to the original series, it's incredible. It has so much incredible insights into the kind of technology we now take for granted. I mean, you know, mobile phones, flip phones, they're invented pretty much. Off the back of Star Trek, yes. Yeah, Star Trek. And also, touching on the whole thing, you know, why you got into it in the first place, to the comfort. I think it is a lot to do with how old you are, because I'm older than you, and I'm from a previous generation.

38:52Whereas we are the next generation. yeah my i'm the and we i i grew up watching star trek six o 'clock you know bbc 2 i think it was and you know it was like oh my god what is this stuff it was so different to all the british stuff was happening and it's like when you watch doctor who for the first time your doctor in my case like tom baker is the one that is my favorite doctor because he's the one i grew up watching mostly and star trek the original is the thing is the star trek franchise f thing i grew up watching and I will always love it and always be aware and realise what incredible influence it was on the rest of Star Trek history.

39:26But that's what I'm saying. If you love Star Trek in general, I still, I do believe your favourite Star Trek will be the Star Trek you grew up with. Unless it's Enterprise. Yeah, that's what, yeah. No, I'm in defence of Enterprise but then I, you know, I love, I love Scott Bacuse. I think Enterprise is the only one I've never re-watched, I've never revisited once was enough for Enterprise. Do you know what? I would say I am a massive Quantum Leap fan. Who isn't? Right, so because I love Quantum Leap, maybe that's probably why I lean towards that as well. I've got to be honest with you. If Sam Beckett had the chance, he would go back and stop them making Star Trek Enterprise.

40:00Okay, you've gone too far. Put right what once went wrong. You've gone too far. He's gone too far. Oh, boy. Right, let's move on from that particular question. I enjoyed that. That was good. Good bit of Star Trek chat. Of course you did. He's so happy. I am quite happy. Shall we move on to this week's news? And for that, I hand it over to our correspondent in LA, boyd hilton on the cutting edge of tv journalism he's just come back from the apple presentation what have you learned boydy well what a what a day it was james um yeah they basically unveiled their slate for the rest of the year kind of in terms of tv and film and they had an a series of panels of the stars and creators of these shows that i'm about to mention it was absolutely incredible i know obviously you have to bear in mind that i am you know i am on a junket of the kind of which you have every year when you go on your was it universal i'm not sure you can call it a junket if i'm not doing interviews i think we can just call it a jolly i haven't done any issues either anyway um so that so they did stuff like there's a show called imperfect women which these three main stars are elizabeth moss kerry washington and kate mara and it's um about it's kind of like a crime thriller drama about they're they're a tight-knit group of best friends and then there's a murder and then they all changes all their lives but what a trio of of stars right elizabeth musk k washington and kate mara i mean the stars that were there actually anya taylor joy is in a show called lucky which is from jonathan tropper one of your favorite um showrunners that's right yes timothy oliphant is in that as well and that's like she's the daughter he's set in vegas and he's like a criminal and you know con man and she he she's his daughter and she's kind of like growing up with all his dodgy activities um there is a show called maximum pleasure guaranteed with tatiana maslani who's always brilliant jack johnson brandon flynn that's a really interesting thing about young young guys who kind of sell their services online if you like cam boys they're called okay steph yeah i'm sure you'll be aware of all of those i'm not what is it so young boys who sell their services online not young boys like grow young men young young men basically Oh, okay.

42:12Nice. Yeah. Intimacy. It's kind of like a grey area between sex work and, you know, kind of emotional therapy. Okay. It's an emotional therapy. It's an interesting world that it's exploring. Put it that way. Put it that way. Now, they did shows that are already on as well. So they did Shrinking, yours in case, Favourite, right? Our favourite. And he was there. Harrison Ford was there. Oh, my God. What did he say? Yeah, in Fall. He was kind of brilliant. He was kind of not grumpy, because I've seen Harrison Ford be grumpy before as an interviewee. Because he loves the show so much. He kind of launched a really touching tribute to how good he thinks the show is, and how much he loves his character, and all of that.

42:57So it was brilliant to see him. He looks incredible. He's mid-80s. Well, there's a scene in Shrinking where he takes his top off at one point, and he still looks incredible. Very first sequence, pretty much, of the new season. Yeah, yeah. He's ripped. Then we had Pluribus. There was a Pluribus panel, our friends, friends of the pod. Vince Gilligan, Ray Sehorne, and Carolina Wydra, and Carlos Manuel Vesca. And that was moderated by all the moderators, either in the show or co-creator of the show or whatever. And Samba Schutter was moderating, who's the guy who's in Vegas. you know he's the guy celebrating um the joys of of being part of the hive mind of of not being part of the hive mind in pluribus rather and you know living up he's that guy uh and he was he was really good fun as a host um there were colin farrell did the thing for season two of sugar and they basically and shay shay wiggum interviewed him who's in the new season yes boy can i just interrupt you about sugar because you know i was really really excited about that so yes this is is it true that this is coming back on the 19th of june can you confirm i think so yeah yes i believe so and can you confirm this so this is what i've read right so he's tracking the older brother of an up-and-coming local boxer as he continues to search for his beloved missing sister that's what i've read yeah can you confirm this to be true i can confirm i'm so excited they also what's interesting about sugar is there's the massive twist in sugar right which which anyone who's watched season one will know about and i was wondering how they're going to deal with us on the panel they're just going to kind of you know warn people you know they've got massive massive spoiler but they just basically accepted that everyone knew and they just just discussed it so that was quite interesting well i would say i would say to listeners who have any interest in watching sugar this is definitely a show you need to watch the first season of before you dive into season two yeah 100 um your friends and neighbors you mentioned james earlier um they were yes Jon Hamm, Amanda Peet, Olivia Munn they're all there, James Marsden who's the newbie for season 2 and that's Jonathan Tropper as well he was a busy man, he hosted two sessions Jonathan Tropper, lest we forget showrunner of my beloved Banshee and of course season 2 and 3 of Sea exactly there's a really good show looks brilliant called Widow's Bay spoiler alert, embargo breaking is that Widow's Bay?

45:24I don't know. You just said it was a really good show, and I'm just saying that that's a spoiler for this podcast. I'm probably breaking an embargo. No, no, no, no, no. Just from the clips they show. Oh, I see. You haven't noticed yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And what Matthew Rhys was saying about it and the creators. Katie Dippold is the co-creator of the show, and she was really good fun. It's kind of set in the kind of world of like Jaws is set. It's like a tribute to that kind of world, you know, but without having a great white shark in it. And it's like a kind of horror comedy thriller type thing.

45:52They're all talking about like a mix of genres, but it looks really fun from the clips. I'm not breaking any embargo. That was fully allowed. Well, I think that might have been... Oh, the Monarch Legacy of Monsters, if you're into that. All that's coming back soon with Godzilla and King Kong and monsters. And Kurt Russell and White Russell playing the same character, of course. Old and young. And it was, yeah. Oh, yeah, Margot's got Money Troubles. How can I forget? Michelle Pfeiffer, Elle Fanning, Nick Offerman, all on stage as well. This is the show where Elle Fanning goes on OnlyFans. isn't it?

46:24Yes, exactly. Yes. And, um, but Michelle Pfeiffer holding forth, um, about that. That looks really good as well. So yeah, there's, there's loads of amazing stuff and it was, um, a fine time. Oh, I've, I missed out. I've totally, sorry, sorry, James. I've, um, I've left the best of last because the most exciting thing they showed for me, the clips they showed and the trailer they showed is the TV version of Cape Fear that they're doing. Do you know what, Boyd? I was literally just going to ask you what your favourite thing is. And I had the Kate Fear on the remake of Kate Fear. Because it's Amy Adams, isn't it?

47:01Amy Adams, Patrick Wilson, who are on the panel. And Javier Bardem as the Robert De Niro villain character, who looks absolutely brilliant. I mean, Javier Bardem has done some of the best bad, nasty villain acting, right? In recent times. I'm going to say something that you're probably going to disagree with. I think that Javier Bardem is the greatest Bond villain of all time. No, I think you might be right. He's absolutely brilliant. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't really know what to do with that comment. What do you mean you don't know what to do with that comment? You don't think that Javier Bardem is...

47:33I mean, he's good. He's definitely good. Is he the best of all time? I think he's the best of all time. I mean, it's a very good film, but... Okay, who's better than him? I mean, Blofeld or Goldfinger, like classic. Goldfinger, maybe. No, no. No, Javier Bardem. takes out his teeth that is one of the greatest scenes greatest bond scenes ever anyway sorry boy carry on no i don't disagree i think he's potentially um in that running because no country for old men remember the performance in that extraordinary i mean he is fucking brilliant and he and the from the clips they showed he's going to be equally astounding as the as the horrendous so they've turned the basically cape fear the story into a 10-part series.

48:14And they were talking all about the challenges of that and what they're exploring and how it's going to be different from the film. So I'm intrigued to see because I love Cape Fear the film. The second version is the Robert Mitchell version before that, which is also good. But the De Niro one is the iconic one. The De Niro, Scorsese, Nick Nolte, Jessica Lange one is absolutely incredible. I watch it pretty much. You know what it is? It's one of my favourite films. Of course it is. See, this this does fall under that awful umbrella of IP farming a little bit which is you know obviously Paramount Plus have done quite a lot of this well but Apple have done it with Presumably Dinnocent which and it gives me pause because I prefer original things and also because the Scorsese one is so good it feels like what more can you add to this like it's been done exceptionally well but you know obviously TV is a different format and this will be a long form story and maybe it will bear that.

49:10I don't know. I'm not going to judge it. I am excited about it. I definitely want to see it. I would be very, very interested to see what they do with the score for this 10-parter because the score to Cape Fear is such an integral part of the film. Steph, let me just tell you exclusively that they introduced the clips and the on-stage presentation with the theme tune. Okay, that's what I need to hear. Yeah, the answer is they're using the original. it's so good that that um that theme it's just it's incredible yeah so to your point james because that would be one thing that i'd say you cannot improve prove on that at all so you know you never know yeah well alex godfrey of empire magazine spoke to the showrunner about the stuff um so uh i'm sure you'll read all about it in empire at some point but um you know he's very he was very open the showrunner about how obviously the challenge of of doing exactly that of turning this incredible original or an incredible version of the story into a 10 hour thing and he kind of hinted at what he's basically he's exploring the backstories of all the characters that is and you could see from the clips there's certain different kind of they've all got secrets and lies you know within them all of all of the main characters the family and the um the kind of main villain character played uh played by de Niro in the film so it's just going deeper into all of that into the whole all the characters and their lives and their backstories and their secrets boyd i don't know that you can tell from la but james has already decided he hates it and um i definitely i think he's got his he's got his skeptical look on yeah definitely yeah he's got like yeah we'll we'll see we'll let james judge when it arrives he'll tell us you know what happens in the end and why if it's been critically annihilated he'll be the first to let us know okay okay is there any other news other than Boydys exploits in Appleland.

51:06Okay, did you... So Jack Thorne has said about adolescence that there is not going to be a second series that involves the Miller family. I had read. Did you know that? I assumed as much, but I hadn't seen the quote. He said, no, it's not going to. He said, so if we ever do anything else in that format, which we might do in years to come, but not currently thinking. Good choice. The other thing that I saw, and I haven't watched this, I don't know if you guys ever reviewed this animal kingdom have you seen that show yeah so yes okay so yes so this was this ran for six seasons i've never watched it which i find strange i hadn't even heard of it to be honest crime drama starring peaky blinders act finn cull and it's the hot all six seasons have landed on netflix so you can binge it all which i plan to do it was is it anything guys i think it started as a film didn't it i took my memory i think and and this is like a TV series version of the film, I'm pretty sure.

52:03It's like a matriarch, a mad criminal matriarch and her family of kind of violent thugs. Is it? That's my version of that. No, he's Joshua J. Cody, a grieving teenager who moves in with his mother's estranged family after she dies from an overdose. Okay, well, look, it's all on Netflix now, all six seasons, and there to binge at your pleasure. In Bill Lawrence news, I read that the janitor is not going to be featuring in the reboot and they will only address whether the janitor who also is in shrinking He is. They will only address whether the janitor comes back because they're currently working on episode 8 and 9 of the new series if they get a second season.

52:48So if you care about the janitor which I love the janitor How would you have a reboot of Scrubs without the janitor? Well I Do you know what James? That's exactly my point. I don't think you can because he gets all those snappy one-liners and I don't think you can have it without him. So this is making me, and I love Scrubs, it's making me very concerned. Yeah, that makes me concerned as well. Okay. Interesting. I know. Interesting. Well, here's what's also interesting. I should do a big dramatic build-up to this, but after the last time I'm not going to. But there's been more casting for the God of War TV show, which is very exciting.

53:21Specifically one particular bit, and that is that Mandy Patinkin is going to be playing Odin, King of the Gods, a role that was voiced by Richard Schiff from the West Wing in the video game. So that's very cool. Yay! Yay, that's right. Olafur Dari Olufsen is going to be voicing Thor. He has the best voice ever. He's gravelly. He's a great Thor. That's a really good choice. So excited about that. And anyone else? I guess people like Alistair Duncan was cast as Mimir as well. And I think we covered Max Barker's Heimdall. I think we covered the others. So yeah, that's my weekly update on the casting of the upcoming God of War show.

53:55Great. we feel fully informed about God of War don't we Boyd good I'm glad I'm very glad we were yes has there been any other news it's not been a particular oh no there was one bit of news I'm sure because I think I I think I put it in a little news folder hold on let me have a look bless you did I did I oh well no this is something that Boyd has obviously already covered so that's not very helpful but that your friends and neighbours has been renewed for season 3 so but we need oh yeah yeah that has been renewed for the third season that I am actually very pleased about because as I've said I really like that show yeah they talked about he talked about how it's good to have to know you've been renewed and then you can plan ahead and you know get it all over that at the end of pluribus the pluribus session because they took audience questions and someone you know someone asked when are we going to see season two of pluribus and he's like well we're literally right in the middle of writing it now it's going to be it's not going to be next year it's not going to be you know and he's like don't don't but patience is going to have to be applied to the future of pluribus is all i can say because it's He's like, it's a big, big challenge writing these episodes.

54:56And you're like, yeah, of course it is, because they're brilliant. You're like, God damn it, Vince, ride faster. Yeah, basically. Be patient. Vince has asked for patience, and I think that we should give it to him. Okay. Well, there may well be other news before we air, but unfortunately we are recording this on a Wednesday, and there has been no other news at this point. I think that's quite a lot of good news, though. There we go. Yeah, Boyd, he carried the news section, I've got to be honest with you. Well, no, I think we all wanted to know about the God of War stuff. Yeah, I mean, that's vital.

55:20Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, shall we move on to this week's reviews? And first up, we have the return of Prime Video's dadcore line-up as Cross comes back for season two. And this is the show that sees Aldous Hodge as Detective Alex Cross, the star of James Patterson's hugely popular crime novels. Although, as noted in the first season, while this takes place sort of canonically after the first Cross novel, Along Came a Spider, it is an all-new story with all new cases. It is not based on any of Patterson's novels directly, and that continues with season two because showrunner Ben Watkins has kind of updated the character for the modern era, updated the context and kind of chired his own course with this.

55:56So, in this second season, Cross teams up with FBI agent Kayla Craig to find out who's trying to kill Matthew Lillard as a pair of killers, one of which is played by the expanse's Amos Burton, Wes Chatham himself. They are targeting sex traffickers and cutting their fingers off, which honestly doesn't sound that unreasonable. Steph, this is crime. You are the editor of Crim and Her magazine. did you like this or did it make you cross um no i i i didn't watch season one of cross call yourself a crime fan well yes i don't know what i was doing obviously i should have been watching it but i didn't um i as we talked earlier as we said earlier they do deliver a bit of a sizzle reel which helps you in no way at all uh know what happened yeah so i did read a little bit about what happened so i kind of know the first thing i'd like to say about this is i don't think that there is an actor alive that can wear a light knit quite as impeccably as Aldous Hodge because the number of light knits in this series is astounding and he is obviously an incredibly handsome man.

57:04So whilst I found that quite distracting, I also very much enjoyed the content of this. I'm wearing quite a light knit today, you'll notice, but not as well as Aldous hodge oh sweetie you're so pretty right anyway what i really loved about this it felt incredibly timely because basically i'm not giving away any secrets because you've already said it's sex trafficking you kind of this this female descends on what can only be described as epstein island yeah yeah okay so it starts starts off and this woman is uh rescuing people from epstein island and there's lots of horrendous men there and young women on there.

57:44And it just feels incredibly timely, doesn't it? If you are in any way versed in Epstein, I mean, who you can't really get away from, Epstein, and everything that's been going on with that. So it dives in and there's some pretty gruesome, some pretty gruesome removing of things that happens in that first scene. Again, I don't want to give it away. I mean, I've already done it, but it's fine. You just said it. What did you say? I've said they're cutting people's fingers off, so it's fine. Okay, yeah. They do, they chop off his fingers. When they cut off that guy's fingers, it's really like, isn't it?

58:14It's a really, yeah, anyway. I really liked it. I love Aldis Hodges, obviously amazing as Cross. He's, you know, he's wonderful. He's beautiful to look at. He's incredibly convincing. I love his relationship with his partner, John Sampson, played by Isaiah Mustafa. And yeah, I think one of the problems I've got is because I'm not familiar with the intense jeopardy from season one. so Kayla Craig's character is obviously working for the FBI and she's partnered with Alex Cross and she's got a secret and I can only assume that you know what that is Not a clue Not a clue and I don't even think this is due to the fact that I have almost no recollection of anything that happened in season one I don't think this is stuff that we're privy to Okay and obviously there's a relationship that Alex Cross has with someone That may have happened in season one but I don't remember it That's really interesting because I was like oh it's a shame because I don't know the backstory of all of these things of all of these relationships.

59:10I know they know each other because she's in season one, but I can't remember really anything. Okay. My overall feeling of this is, yeah, it's good. It's not great. I wouldn't say it's great. Am I going to continue watching it? Probably not. But it's enjoyable. It's just kind of fine, I think, to use one of James's. Yeah. Yeah, it's just fine. It's not groundbreaking in any way. Boy, do you like a bit of dadcore. yeah um i i'm exactly the same as you i i watched the first season i just didn't remember it at all and and the um and the recap absolutely did not help this is yeah refresh nothing exactly the recap kind of summed up what i quite like about what i do like about the show which is that it's got its own quite weird vibe to it it's got kind of like it's quite out there in terms of its tone and it's quite heightened and it's very slick and kind of vividly drawn.

1:00:09It's fun to watch as it's going on. And he is great, as you say. He's, you know, Aldous Hodge. He's really good. He's hot in his jumper. What did you call it? It's a light knit. A light knit. As in it's like a light, like it's like a thin... It's a thin jumper. It's a light knit. Right. You're wearing a light knit now. I wanted to be clear in case this was sort of fashion lingo I wasn't familiar with and it just meant that it was light coloured or something. Oh no, I'm not one with the fashion lingo. No, it's just like a thin jumper. Yeah, let me just say no need for any kind of jumper today in LA because it's record breaking.

1:00:43It's nearly 90 degrees today in LA. Oh my God. Anyway. Thank you, Boris. You horror. Thank you. There's also, as you say, it does feel very topical with its dealing with billionaires and their desires and what they do to exploit those desires. there's an interesting character played by Matthew Lillard of Scream fame, who was, I think Matthew Lillard, wasn't he one of the people that Quentin Tarantino dissed in his epic, famous thing when he chose his favorite, favorite films, top 20 films of the millennium or whatever. And he, and he slagged off some various actors, including Paul Dano Dano. But in, in the, in the kind of everyone, everyone was felt sorry for Paul Dano Dano.

1:01:22And they all supported him and issued statements saying how horrible Quentin Tarantino was to him. But in the fallout form of that, at the same time, he did manage to slag off Matthew Lillard, which was so random you know so why i know but he was really scathing towards paul deno i think it was horrible and paul himself said there was that quote that he said like i didn't feel like i needed to respond because i felt like the world stuck up for me and i was like yes paul good for you yeah absolutely yeah anyway i stick out for matthew lillard who's good in this and he's got an interesting character um so and i like the whole i think yeah it's got like it's got like a slightly slightly not pushing it to final point slightly twisted edge to it with the cutting off and the fingers and you know and the kind of crimes that explores it's quite you know it's quite it's a little bit over the top is what i think about it and i like that i like that it's trying to do something you know a bit different with let's face it source material that we've seen before in the film various films and if you read the books etc it's it's got a little bit of ambition to be different and that's what i appreciate most about it but i guarantee that if i carry on watching it and then in a year's time there's season three i will have forgotten in all of this season as well.

1:02:26But, you know, it's one of the things you enjoy it while it's on. Yeah, you enjoy it while it's on. It's a bit like, you know how the soundtrack is very kind of jazzy. It's sort of, it's, I don't know, it's just fine. Do you know, it's just fine. It's just like, it feels like after dinner viewing, it's just fine. It's not, I don't think, it's not groundbreaking. I don't think it is that ambitious actually, Boyd. What did you find ambitious about it? It's more ambitious is maybe the wrong word. I don't know. It's slightly more twisted than you might think it would be. I don't know. Maybe I'm laboring the point of giving it too much credit.

1:03:06Okay. But while it's on, it's not like one of those flat network-style procedurals, put it that way. That's a good point, yes. Yeah, it's not badly formulaic. we've seen you know butterfly famously the butterfly incident at our live show with russell t davis intervened and we had to explain what the hell that fucking show was that's such a generic boring thing this although it seems like it might be a generic boring thing actually while you're watching it there's more to it than that that's what that's what i'm trying to say james yeah i mean like i say i watched all of season one the a plot line in which involved this serial killer the fanboy which was very dark and very twisted I do remember some of that there's a B plot which involves Cross's dead wife and someone who may or may not have been involved in that and even though that is in the previously on I was like I don't know what's happening and I can't remember how this series ended so I was a little lost on that but I was quite because I did watch the whole of the first season I must have enjoyed it because I watched it so I was like okay I'm quite looking forward to this I watched the first episode of the second season and was a bit like huh I was like I felt like something was missing.

1:04:16So I watched the second one to try and, you know, okay, well, maybe, yeah. Got to get the second one, I was like... Huh. Same feeling. And I actually feel like this has maybe taken a dip from season one. And the reason I say that is because the kind of B-plot on this one seems to revolve heavily around the FBI agent, who I'm uncharitably calling Budget Linda Cardellini. But only because I genuinely thought... Linda Cardellini was looking fantastic for her age, and then of course I realised it's a completely different actor. But anyway, just so... There's a... I don't want to spoil it. There's a kind of conspiracy-type subplot involving her character, which just seems so over the top and forced.

1:04:59At this stage, at the beginning, I was just like, I'm just not sure I'm buying it. I'm not sure I'm buying this particular subplot. And given that the main plot, don't get me wrong, Wes Chatham is amazing and I'd watch him in anything and that instantly had my attention because he's in the first scene. But I just thought, I don't... From the expanse. From the expanse, that's right, yeah. But I just couldn't bring myself to be interested enough. And so I genuinely feel like, much as I enjoy a bit of dadcore and much as I enjoyed, apparently, the first season of this, I don't think I'm going to watch this second season.

1:05:32I think it speaks volumes that neither of you can remember what happened in the first season. And the whole point of getting a second season is because the first season is so compelling that you're so attached to the storyline of those characters that you really need it to move on and you want to know what's happened to them. And you two, frankly, couldn't give a shit. That's true. Do you know what stuck out for me, though? What? There's a random bit at the beginning of this first episode where after, you know, the prologue where a crime has been committed, they launch into the Bad Sisters theme tune.

1:06:02Did you notice this? So it's the PJ Harvey cover of Who By Fire, Leonard Cohen's Who By Fire. I think it's the PJ Harvey version, which was recorded, if I recall correctly, specifically for Bad Sisters. And it plays at the beginning. I was like, what the fuck is happening? Is someone watching Bad Sisters? But no, it's just playing. Maybe it's a different cover, I don't know. But that really threw me. I feel a bit like if you don't find out what happens to Cross are you going to care? No Yeah You're not going to care are you? And I want to care but I don't Yeah He is just a pretty face in this show unfortunately and a pretty body Yeah So watch it or don't watch it or binge season one and two back to back for a double cross But you know if you don't want to do that that's absolutely fine because it comes to Prime Video when Boydie?

1:06:51Wednesday the 11th of February 2026 Okay. Moving on, we have Betrayal on ITV, which sees Sean Evans as John Hughes, a maverick MI5 officer who starts the show, frankly, getting brains splattered all over him. And his day generally goes downhill from there. So, Boydie, does this security services thriller have brains or are the only ones on display on Sean Evans' face? I am in the pocket of Big Betrayal because I did host... Are you? Am I going to have to pivot to Steph? Am I going to pivot to Steph? You might have to pivot to Steph. You're up. Okay, I'm going to make a claim about this show and you and ITV, okay?

1:07:28So specifically, me and ITV or you and ITV like you and drama? James and ITV. Okay, so I think I enjoyed this show. Yeah. I think if this show was on Netflix, you would enjoy this show. I really do. It would have a bigger budget. But I think because it's on ITV, he's going to be disparaging about it, right? But when I started watching this, I was thinking about you, and I was thinking, he's going to be really horrible about this. But actually, this is a great show. And if it was through the Netflix lens, you would enjoy it, okay? So, Sean Evans plays this MI5 agent who is having marriage troubles, but he loves his job, and he's had this terrible thing happen at work, but he's not allowed to tell his wife anything about what happens.

1:08:17So that's causing even more troubles and you find out that he's had a checkered past. But his job, he's so married to his job that he wants to find out why this person whose brains were splattered all over his face in the first scene, not a spoiler, why that happened. And then he gets paired up. Well, actually, it's a handover, isn't it? There's a handover. He needs to hand over his case because they want him to take a bit of gardening leave and with a very attractive other agent. And then it all kind of kicks off from there. I really enjoy Sean Evans. I think he's great in this role. It's exciting.

1:08:54It's kind of very enticing because you really want to know. Do you know what I've got? I'm going to pick something out, which really, I didn't understand why they had it. In one of the first scenes, he goes into a toilet with some, and I'm really hoping it's just not insane product placement. He goes into the toilet with some anusol. Yes, he does. Hemorrhoid cream, right? and I was like what the hell and you and there's a literally a shot of him holding the anusol so you can see it and then later on he has a conversation with his wife and she's like you really need to make an appointment to make sure it's not just piles and then it's not addressed again and I was like what the it just seems so odd okay go on exclusive reveal exclusive reveal having hosted the q a with the writer david aldridge and the cost that But yeah, having piles is a little subplot, if you like.

1:09:49And I could say with full confidence, because I asked him, I proed him about the use of the storyline. Proed, nice. Yeah, the piles storyline. And he was like, yeah. You know, it is mentioned. It's going to be mentioned throughout the series. And there was thought of it being, you know, just because she's a GP, his wife, Romula Gary's character. and so they want to giving him an illness where she's annoyed with him for not checking out and men this is the thing about men isn't it of his age our age my age even older of putting off dealing with medical issues you have so that's kind of what it's about it's about his age and his issues but i have to say there's never been as many mentions of piles not only in the in a show a drama but also in a q a that i've hosted in history but there were it was fully discussed I mean so I have to question a little bit whether B plot is about piles I have to question the show but I still really enjoyed it I enjoyed it I loved the two female leads in it I thought it was interesting enough to want me to keep watching it but crucially I think if it was on Netflix I hate to say this I think I would have liked it more I think it would be this package but I mean you say we've talked about this quite a lot it would have a different sheen to it yes because Netflix stuff does have a feel to it, and the same way that Apple shows have a feel to it, it would feel more expensive.

1:11:09Weirdly, for me, the only time in this entire show I bumped on the budget, weirdly, was the brain incident. I was unconvinced by the grey matter. Unconvincing brains, that's my main criticism of it. I'm not buying that. I'm not buying the fake brains. Sorry. But, other than that, I quite enjoyed it. It was decent. I quite like a sort of security services drama. He's a shit security services officer, it has to be said. And he's kind of on disciplinary measures, not crucially for being a maverick, but for just being a bit bad, which I thought was quite fun. The only thing that I bump on, which I often do, is when people just do things that don't ring true, that no one would ever do, or I don't think they would ever do, or I would certainly never do.

1:11:57Like, for example, he is having issues with his wife who doesn't trust him. That is not helped by the fact that he has signed the Official Secrets Act and literally cannot tell her anything and has form in being, you know, a problematic husband. But then little things like he gets stuck up north for the night and has to spend the night in a room with someone else. No problems there. But doesn't call her to tell her he's not coming back. It's like, mate, you were in marriage counselling yesterday. Do you not think you are a phone call or a text or a voicemail? Something. I don't believe for one second it wouldn't have crossed his mind.

1:12:26Okay, but well, especially not because he looks at his phone before he goes to sleep and sees that she's really pissed off with him. but I think he obviously has I think one of the themes Do you think it's the hemorrhoids? Is that the reason? No, I think he has a problem He's preoccupied He has a problem with what he perceives as being controlled in some way like he doesn't want to go to the marriage counselling he doesn't want to be controlled by his bosses he does have a little bit of an issue with controlling women you can see with his he has a really tense conversation with one of his bosses where he's left her quite a vicious voicemail and she says you just can't do that so I think he would do that his character would do that that's very believable because frankly he's a little bit of an arsehole he is yes he is and he is a bit of a bellend yeah that's the point yeah i i think i think that you know him we talked about him sharing the hotel room and not telling his wife it's all it's all part of the character that is like yeah he's kind of self-absorbed yeah he does not answerable to anyone that's what yeah i think what's in yeah what's interesting is you're saying obviously he can't he signed the official he can't tell her about the details of his job but it's like the show's all about what is it like what is the reality of that like you know it's all very well saying it in theory and her obviously acknowledging the fact of course she's not gonna she's not expecting him to tell her the details of the various villains he's dealing with or why there was blood splattered on his face or what you know but she's not stupid but at the same time the day-to-day grind of being married to someone with that job is really clever.

1:13:58I think it's a really clever interesting idea and more than that I think the fact that this hasn't got the slick Netflix sheen to it or Apple sheen to it it's kind of appropriate in this story because I think it's looking at the gritty underside if you like of a job being a spy effectively is not all glamour and James Bond. It's like the anti-James Bond series it's just a normal bit of a bellend self-absorbed yeah but clearly kind of loves his job in a way and yet gets really annoyed when when people don't believe what he's telling them his boss bosses and he butts up against his bosses and all of that i thought i think the main thing about it is it feels really authentic uh as a and in fact they the guy called gordon carrera who has the does the rest of his podcast who's an expert on this stuff espionage the realities of it the day-to-day realities of it he was a big consultant on the show and and i think it really really works that it's not trying to be flashy and you know um but i think for i think the visual style of it absolutely matches the content and what it's trying to do which is be more gritty and real about all of this this whole world and i think it works very well on that basis i think rome legari and him sean evans are really good really you totally believe they're in in this absolutely um kind of not hellish is too yeah yeah deeply flawed marriage particularly for her point of view she's fucking furious with it and you know you would be even though you know that he can't he i think he's kind of using his job and using the fact that he has to be secretive to to be annoying with her in their actual day-to-day relationship and that's what's kind of makes it gives it that edge i think because there are parts where we know as the audience he absolutely could tell her because the thing that has happened is either off book therefore not technically part of his job or something like he could absolutely give her some information and yet he's hiding behind the fact that he's oh it's so secret i can't tell just to be a twine.

1:15:53Yeah, he doesn't want to tell her anything and yeah, he's an arsehole. Right. Yeah. Raging Bella. I quite enjoyed it though. Oh, I'm pleased. I'm pleased. But would you have enjoyed it more if it had the Netflix sheen? I think you would because I would and I hate to see it. Do you know what? I hate to say, I know what Boyd means. I do think that the low fineness is part of the deliberate aesthetic here and I actually think it works. Like this isn't the night agent. You know what I mean? I don't think it wants to be. Like it wants to show you almost the crushing mundanity of working for the security services.

1:16:24And actually, I think that's a really... It's not trying to be spooks. It's a very different thing. And I actually think that works. Whereas, but, if you look at something like, and I should say, there are episodes of this available on the screener site. Remember Criminal Record with Kush Jumbo and David Capaldi? And Peter Capaldi? That has that kind of slightly sort of like grubby, British, inner city, councilor state-y type-y crime drama. but still has the apple sheen to it. So it shows you can have both. You can have lo-fi gritty, but also with all the money in the world. Yeah, it's like when they get on the train to go to Stockport, you're like, oh, that looks shit.

1:17:03Do you know where you're like, you're just going to go meet someone in a car park in Stockport, and you're like, oh, this isn't fun. It legitimately does feel like a Stockport car park. Yeah, it does. Criminal Record Season 2 coming soon, by the way. It is indeed, yes. And you can watch the first six episodes because they're up there. Just saying. Oh, okay. I don't have that special access. It's because you're not special. I know. Who can I call? Ghostbusters. Right. I'll try and put a word in for you. Betrayal. ITV Wemble. It's on now, isn't it? Yeah, it started yesterday, Sunday the 8th, and then continues today, Monday the 9th, if you're listening to this on the day it comes out, which why wouldn't you?

1:17:38It's a pilot subscriber. Be sure to tune in. Sundays and Mondays for the next two weeks. Yeah, be sure to tune in to find out how the hemorrhoid subplot resolved. Exactly. Finally this week we have Small Prophets on BBC Two written created directed and co-starring one Mackenzie Crook which sees Pierce Quigley as a slightly weird guy who works in a DIY store whose girlfriend disappeared some years ago Naturally he deals with this in a normal well-adjusted way by turning into alchemy and the forbidden art of homunculus animation because of course he does Now, Boydie what in the name of Great Odin's Raven is going on in this show?

1:18:19yeah good question i'm intrigued by the way steph i remember you you said it went in the build-up to this week's episode of the pilot tv podcast you'd watched an entire series of something was that this it's this or i've watched i've watched i've watched all six episodes can i ask can i ask a question yes did you watch the detectorists no because like that's that's you know a glimpse into the mind of mckenzie crook i wondered if the crookiverse was very much your wavelength no no it isn't yeah well that's that's the point to start with it yeah so this is mackenzie crook creator creator of the detectorist which was let's face it a kind of gentle charming subtle um slightly melancholy of tone kind of comedy-ish series yeah i think about i think i didn't watch the detectorist because i was deep in child rearing and that's the reason i missed it because it was when gasey was really small that's why that's the only reason I mean, right.

1:19:12A lot of people absolutely love The Detectress because of its tonal kind of quality and it's not trying to be, I mean, talk about not being flashy. I mean, this is like, you know, I think you wouldn't even get this on Netflix or Apple TV or whatever. It's so kind of quirky. And Mackenzie Crook's definitely got a unique kind of tone to his stuff, to that and this show. And I think in this show, he almost takes it further because of the fact that he does end up dealing with homunculi, magical spirit beings that can predict the future, apparently. Anyway, as you said, as James said, Piers Quigley is this guy who's clearly in mourning for the fact that his partner disappeared years ago.

1:19:57Anyway, he seems to be, you know, kind of like still in mourning for the disappearance of his wife years previously. And he seems to be keeping a room Christmassy, with a Christmassy vibe as if to kind of honour her memory or something like that anyway. And this definitely follows in the tonal footsteps of Detectress, but I think is even possibly even more kind of, you know, melancholy, charming, weird, but with an incredible cast. So on top of Piers Quigley as the main guy, you've also got the fact that his dad is played by Michael Palin, you know, absolute living legend of a comedy genius and fantastic actor.

1:20:35and his memory is faltering and he's the one who brings out the idea of these homunculi things and has a recipe involved in gallons of water etc that's happening there that's bizarre and then there's Sophie Willen from Am I Was Not Normal is there as the neighbour with John Poynting from Big Boys as well Paul K is in it Paul K from Afterlife is in it as a key character I found it very I kind of enjoyed it I found it I do love Mackenzie Crook and I wasn't a massive fan of Detector it's not as big a fan as some a lot of TV critics were it went down very well I think it won certainly nominated for BAFTAs if not winning them I like the fact that it is bizarre and weird and doing something completely strange what's it take a picture James is just taking photos of I don't know of us so I enjoyed it but I didn't feel the need.

1:21:34So I'm intrigued. I didn't feel the immediate need to carry on watching the rest of the series. But you did, Steph, and I'm intrigued to know why. So I did enjoy it. I did like it. And I may well carry on watching it when I find the time. But it's so kind of... Deeply, deeply weird. And weird. Yeah. But I kind of like that about it. I get it. Okay. So I, as we've just said, I ended up watching all six episodes of this. And I watched the first episode and I was like, mostly because I was like, I need to know whether he's going to make these bloody homunculi, right? I need to know what happens. And from the second episode, I was so drawn in.

1:22:17I just then I went on and watched all six. So for me, this is this has got several strands to it, which are really compelling. His girlfriend, Clea, has been missing for seven years. OK, he is still in the house that they lived together. and as you said, Boyd, there is a room in the house that he keeps which has got Christmas stuff on it and it's revealed why he keeps his house and the house is full of boxes and it's revealed why. So there's slow reveals of why he's got this seemingly odd existence. He also works in a DIY shop where he shows little to no respect for his boss played by Mackenzie Crook whose seemingly, his only function as a boss is to ask people, which I just found this so hilarious, to ask people if they'd taken their breaks.

1:23:06And if, like me, you frequent hardware shops, you know, Dunnell, B &M, all of those. You frequent hardware shops? Yeah, because I like to have a little mooch around. All you hear all the time... This is all coming clear now. Well, all you hear all the time is someone going, have you been on your break? Are you going on your break? And so I found just that, the fact that that's the running joke throughout the whole thing, really funny. and he he kind of he gets this alliance with another shop worker paid by lauren patel who plays casey and this friendship grows between him and casey which is beautiful it's really beautiful and they both obviously she has some issues obviously he's got his own issues and i think this is a truly i it's rare you find some something that is so truly original that it really captivate your attention and for me that's what this is the way that Mackenzie Crook has chosen through humor to deal with this intense grief that this person's feeling because they have no understanding of what's happened to Clea he's and it's it you know it to his very core you can feel the pain and he's really sarcastic and he you know sort of disparaging of everyone around him it just it drew me in so much and I fell completely in love with him and he has these beautiful relationships with these people around him that are subtle relationships but they're powerful and it was such an original concept I can't even begin to think where Mackenzie Crook got this and then there is again I'm not going to spoil it there is a kind of otherworldly quality to him, to this whole thing with the homunculi, which are, you know, what are small profits, these little people that you grow in jars that will give you the answers to the questions you seek.

1:24:56I really enjoyed that because it's so bizarre. You haven't, I've not seen anything like this in kind of a British comedy format. And I thought it was absolutely wonderful. And let me just say, if you go get to the end of the six episodes, you'll be so pleased. You feel completely full. The comedy in it is, it's very British I would say it's a very British comedy and something that I think British audiences will really enjoy and maybe other audiences will be like this is too weird for me but it 100 % wasn't too weird for me and I loved every minute of it You're absolutely right I think yeah I think I love the scenes in the DIY shop and the scenes depicting showing us his personality and I do really like the vibe of it and I think I will carry on watching it I totally get I think it's brilliant that you carried on watching all of it yeah because I think it is a lovely kind of very British, very McKinsey crook show that I want to get behind.

1:25:52So yes. And over to James. It was 100 % too weird for me. Why? Yeah. It's just, it's very quirky. It's very odd. And certainly at the beginning, it's quite slight because it's just him going to work in a DIY store and then wandering around and then spinning tall tales for customers, which to be fair, I quite enjoyed. He's talking about mixing paint and new colours with one guy. It's genuinely very funny. He just goes on these incredibly like wildly improbable tales and then you wait until the customer's just like you're a mentalist and walks off like it's and he does that a few times that's quite fun but you're getting through the first i'm like i don't know where this show is going or what it's about and then you come into like the whole monkey lie thing and i'm like okay i if you'd pin me down i would never have guessed that this is where this was going uh and i was just like this is very quirky it's very, very, it's very peculiar.

1:26:45It's a very peculiar show. You say peculiar, I think it's utterly original. I mean, it is, in that I've never seen anything like it. You really need to watch episode two. By episode two, you'll fall in love with it. Well, the thing is, barring the conversations she had with a couple of the customers, the humour didn't really resonate with me, so I didn't find it very funny. So, without the kind of, like, impetus of a plot, you know, like, if one of them had hemorrhoids and I needed to know what happened, then perhaps I would have stuck with it. But, do you know what I mean? Without the plot to carry me and because the humour doesn't really gel with me, I was like, I don't know that there's much here for me because I don't really care that much what's going on and I am unamused.

1:27:24I'm really disappointed. I'm going to tell you exactly what... After this podcast, I'm going to tell you exactly what happens in the whole thing. Okay, fine. Because what else is really good is that by the end of it, it leaves something open, which is really exciting because I hope that there is another season of this because I loved it so much. But I think come to this with a real open mind and knowing that it is not a traditional British comedy. It is really quirky. But come to it thinking, God, this is going to be really original, something I've never seen before. The concept is original and Mackenzie Crook has done something very special here.

1:28:02Quirky, low-stakes British comedies are definitely not my thing as a rule. So don't take the fact that I'd enjoy it as a ringing indictment. Yeah. Quirky comedy can often end up being irritating and twee and kind of being, you know, verging on twee and kind of a bit quirky for quirky's sake. And I found that a little bit as I was watching the first episode. But by the end of the first episode and bearing in mind what you've seen the whole thing, Stefan, what you're saying about it, I am convinced that it's definitely worth carrying on with. And I think the quirk, it feels authentic and, you know, like part of the whole DNA of the show rather than something that's been slapped on, you know.

1:28:38No, yeah, that's absolutely right. Even just some kind of John Poyting's character, his set as the irritated neighbour, his function in this is just to be perpetually annoyed, but so British that he can't really come out and say what he's really thinking. And even that level of frustration, I found it very amusing. I mean, a lot of it happens in a cul-de-sac, which is where he lives. It's very British, but please do not close your mind to this show because you'll be missing something special, is what I'd say. James oh James is going to close his mind to but no one cares I'm going to tell him what happens I'm going to tell him what happens I'm going to re-watch Deep Space Nine instead small profits then which airs on BBC Two when pointy today Monday the 9th of February 10 o 'clock 2026 and what else is out this week that is the question oh the artful dodger is back series 2 who knew who knew who knew indeed Tuesday that's on Tuesday as we've mentioned how to get to heaven from Belfast and lands on Netflix on Thursday and we're going to be covering it on Thursday on this week's Pilot Plus and then of course there's Love Story colon John F.

1:29:46Kennedy Jr. ampersand Carolyn Bessette snappily titled and that's on Disney Plus and that airs on Friday. Absolutely and I had discussion with Steph about how the extent to which British people know that story of JFK Jr. That was hilarious to me. Sorry, carry on boy. I didn't really know the story. I don't know the story. What? I think a lot of British people don't this is a massive part of history of like the kennedys yeah do you not like no political i know but that element of the kennedy story i didn't know yeah it's interesting but this is by the way let you know can you believe another ryan murphy production to be fair he hasn't he's not that creatively involved i don't think he's written or directed it but it is part of his empire so the ryan murphy machine continues apace is what i should say all right then what is our pick of the week oh small profits hands down um it's betrayal for me that is a betrayal a betrayal of steph i think boyd if you'd what if you watched six episodes of small profits it would have been small profits possibly you're possibly right i acknowledge that i think you would enjoy the unconventional friendship and how much it maybe yeah i really do i just really like james's impersonation of Alan Partridge just now when he was talking about you.

1:31:03My pick of the week, oh God, that's hard. It's either Betrayal or Cross. It's probably Betrayal. I think it's Betrayal. An ITV drama. Just go with it, it's Betrayal. I think it's Betrayal. Oh my God, you love ITV now. That's it, yeah. You're ITV's bitch. James and ITV sitting in a tree. Wow. S-T-R-E-A-M-I-N-G or something. Anyway, right. Can I just say one more thing about what's on this week? Yes. Becoming Victoria Wood, which is this feature-length documentary on You and Gold Thursday, 9 o 'clock, about Victoria Wood, the woman, the legend, which includes Jessica Barden, the actress, doing dramatised readings of her own material and stuff.

1:31:39It's really good. So, yeah, I just wanted to mention that. Thanks. Thank you, Poydie. Now, Steph. Yes. The Night Agent returns next week. And so does Kay. Coincidence? I don't think so. No, coincidence there. although I do love the night agent. I'm having my tonsils out, guys. You are having your tonsils out? Everyone tells me it's absolutely... Well, yeah, apparently they don't do it very much as an adult, but I had tonsillitis eight times last year, eight times the year before, and eight times the year before that. So they've got to come out. That's quite consistent. Yeah, it's too much. And they're coming out, and everyone tells me it's absolutely horrendous, and I have to have two weeks off.

1:32:19Wow. Yeah. Also, apparently it can alter your voice. So you're welcome back. Hello, it's Steph Sealand. I'm back on a podcast. Which may be welcome to some people. Welcome news, I don't know. But, yeah, who knows? But, in great news, guys, beloved Gabby, my beloved Gabby, also known as Kay. It's very confusing when you call her that. Well, it isn't for the beloved listeners who watch Shrinking. Kay will be back for two weeks. Two whole weeks of Kay. Two whole weeks, starting, I believe, with this week's Pilot Plus. Starting with Pilot Plus. Starting with this week's Pilot Plus. Kay will be back.

1:32:52maybe we'll continue the Star Trek chat then oh Jesus don't how exciting is that what else is out next week 56 days lands on Prime the last thing he told me comes back to Apple exciting times will be had by all we are also going to have Jennifer Garner on this very podcast talking to Boyd for that show but I don't know if that's going to be on next week's episode or the week after so you have to wait and see isn't that exciting Boyd are you off to the beach very exciting is that what's happening yeah I'm going to literally struggle I need to get breakfast frankly if you really want to know I'm absolutely starving and then I'm going to stroll along the beach.

1:33:25Oh, have a lovely time. Please remember to get me a souvenir gift. Yes, and some kind of foundation thermos flask for me, please. All right, well, Boyd, enjoy the beach. I hope you have a good time. Boyd, can you just stay on for five minutes after the second? Not even five minutes, like a minute, because I want to tell you what happens in Small Profits. I don't want to know. But he's going to watch it. What? Oh, I thought you were going to watch it. Okay, can you watch it so we can talk about it, please? All right, yeah, but I'm going to come. We can talk about it on Pilot Plus. when you return sounded a bit like this.

1:33:53Hello, Steph Seaman. Don't, God. Okay. An unrecognisable. I'm very excited to hear what sound. Maybe you'll be inexplicably scouse when you return. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, I look forward to finding out. This is going to be fun. That is the Pilot TV podcast. We hope you enjoyed it in some degree. Please do feel free to head over to Apple Podcasts or any platform of your choice and leave us a five-star Tret rating if only for that explainer that we had earlier on. And please do follow us on the social medias at Pilot TV Pod at Boyd Hilton at Steph Sealand at James C. Dyer at Kay Ribeiro and remember the postbag exists and it is PiloteTV at Empire Magazine dot com Alright, we'll be back in your ears on Thursday when among other things you will witness the triumphant return of one Kate Ribeiro It is Kate, isn't it?

1:34:37Kate Ribeiro It's Kate Katie Katie Ribeiro Katie Rodrigo Katie Rob Rereau Kate Ribeiro Right, that's right Who can forget Kate? I've missed her I've missed her too Pilot out Cial Inclued Conclusion