Film Club, Dreaming Whilst Black, and Murder Before Evensong. With Guests Aimee Lou Wood & Suranne Jones, and Jodie Whittaker

25:02It's now on iPlayer, obviously, as everything is. And it's banned in the 80s, moments that shook music. And it's about how in the 1980s, which I lived through because I am old enough, there were loads of songs that ended up being banned, mainly by the BBC. So the classic song was Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Relax, right? That was banned. It was banned. It was banned on the BBC. What's hilarious about it was... Why? Because they relatedly realised... James, why? No, I'll tell you why. No, but he's got a point, because it wasn't initially banned at all. Oh, okay. So he doesn't understand... He does not obviously listen to the lyrics.

25:36Well, we're about to get into that. I remember George Michael's I Want Your Sex, which is called I Want Your... He was banned as well. Yeah. Okay, carry on, boy. Apologies. With Relax. It came out. It was a big... They were a big cult band. They were on the tube, if people remember. And they got a massive response. And people, they joined... Trevor Horn's then new record label, ZTT, and it was a big thing, loads of publicity, but the song itself was phenomenal, right? Brilliantly produced, incredibly catchy song, Relax. But it was clearly a sexual, the lyrics were clearly of a sexual nature. Sorry, James, you're going to get shocked now.

26:11Go on, carry on. He didn't know this. Right. But what was interesting is the BBC bigwigs didn't realise this either. So it got to, it came out, it got to number one, they were only on top of the pops, they made a video, which the video was banned by everyone, because the video is quite rude if you've ever seen the video. although by today's standards it's completely oh my god it's not Miley Cyrus twerking basically Mike Reed who was on the Breakfast Show at the time and his producer suddenly played it and suddenly went oh hold on a minute what are they singing about like relax don't do it when you want to calm can you just look at James James still doesn't know James is like what's wrong with us I have to be honest while I vaguely know the melody I don't know any of the lyrics to that song at all relaxed I mean I can guess Yes, from what you're saying.

26:57There's a lot of talking of clearly sexual things. And they literally suddenly started there and then they won't play it anymore. And then basically, it went to the big brass of the BBC and they all decided they weren't going to play it either. And it was effectively banned. And they didn't go on Top of the Pops after that either. So every single person at number one, went to number one, in the era of Top of the Pops, was always on the show. But that was just the way it worked. And then suddenly they weren't because they'd been banned retroactively. But what's brilliant about this documentary is they get the people involved they have footage of there was an amazing moment when holly johnson the lead singer of frankie goes to hollywood confronts the producer the radio one producer live on air on this show with the preposterousness of him suddenly banning it and holly johnson points out well you've only just banned it because to start with you weren't listening to and you didn't know and he holly johnson kind of denies that the lyrics are section which is a brilliant complete lie because he knows for the where they are and um and they have this tete-a-tete and it's fascinating it's like an incredible i mean i'm obsessed with the 80s anyway um the greatest decade of all time in in general for pop culture music everything but to see this show to see young a young holly johnson you know in his 20s yeah kind of giving it brilliantly answering back to these idiots from the bbc who banned it is he it's fascinating and what was their what was their kind of response when they were like oh it was too rude it's too rude i'll protect the kids of today do you know other examples of things that were banned the The Queen song, where they do the video, they're in drag, right?

28:25Oh, right, yeah. I want to break free. I want to break free. In the video for that, they're all in drag. And that was banned because drag was considered so shocking. But the people couldn't take it. Look at now. Now you can't move for fucking drag. What happened to Salt-N-Pepa? You can't move for drag. Were they banned as well? Yeah, they were banned. Madonna is in it. Oh, Madonna. Definitely. I remember the sex book was quite a good novelty. Yeah, sex was a whole deal. And that whole album that went along with at the time. It's a really brilliant hour-long documentary about stuff like that, but just reminding you about how, in a weird way, the way they dealt with these things was quite kind of decent.

29:01They didn't just pretend that they made the right decision to the BBC. They were actually answerable to people and the band. James, I'm just going to... Right, these are the lyrics. I'm just going to read them quite quickly, because your innocent face is just... Relax, don't do it. when you want to go to it. Relax, don't do it when you want to come. Relax, don't do it when you want to suck it, chew it. Relax, don't do it. I mean, what I would put to you is it's not exactly fucking cryptic, is it? So, that's the point. But was it just that at the time people just didn't do that kind of thing? So they couldn't even compute that that's what it was about?

29:37Kind of, yeah. I mean, you're right, actually. And I mean, similarly, because there's a lot of stuff about how, you know, there were a lot of gay acts. You know, I mean, obviously, Frank goes on being one in terms of Holly Johnson and Paul, was it, the dancer? And Soft Cell, there were loads of bands that dealt with sexuality. But people kind of ignored that element because they didn't really want to deal with it. So Boy George, a culture club, famously, did an interview where he was, everyone knew he was gay, right? But he did this interview where he said you'd rather have a cup of tea than have sex, you know?

30:07And that was like what people took from him. So it was an intriguing era. People were just like, oh, no, no, no, we don't want to deal with all of that. But these are brilliant pop acts. They're completely... Yeah, we want them, but we don't want to talk about that other stuff. Right. Whereas, to be fair, one of the embracingly refreshing things about Frankie, Holly Johnson in particular, they kind of did. They did confront it, and they did. But the video is astonishing. In fact, for him to kind of claim that, he says the government piece has got a dirty mind, I think is how he puts it. But then you watch the video, it is rude.

30:34I mean, it's clearly what's going on is saucy, shall we say. So that documentary is fantastic. We should have a slot every week, which is called James Discovers. and it'd be like something that everybody else knows that you have no idea about. There's a lot to choose from. That'd be a good slot though. You're right. Another BBC documentary that's just started is Rob Brydon's Honky Tonk Road Trip. Oh, that's right up my alley. This is Rob, we all know Rob obviously from Gavin and Stacey, et cetera, but absolute legend. This is just a documentary, three-part documentary about his love of country music and I love country music as well.

31:13Who doesn't? Who doesn't? Probably James. Yeah, James. He goes to Nashville. He meets great acts and singer-songwriters, and he just immerses himself in the culture of American country and Western music, and it's an absolute joy to see him. I mean, Rob's just brilliant in everything. I love him in general, but he's a really good... He's just such an engaging, funny presence in this type of show. So, yeah, Rob Brydon fans. Can I... I want to ask you if you'd watched something that I really wanted to watch if I haven't had a chance. Have you watched? because I obviously love Ramesh Ranganathan. Of course.

31:46He's Can't Knock the Hustle. Is that good? Yeah, it's really good. Of course it'll be good. Yeah? Okay, I'm going to watch that next. He does a bit in the... Because, you know, that's like his stand-up mixed with inspirations for his stand-up. Because I listened to his pod the other day when he was talking about it. I was like, oh, that's really amazing. There's one bit in that show which really got to me. And I was like, oh, my God, he's completely got me. And that is where he talks about middle-aged white guys in their 50s wearing a football shirt. Oh, what does he say? Oh, my God. He says, you know, you're basically like overweight, middle-aged, walking around going, yes, I am fit to play for Arsenal.

32:19You know? Like, yes. Oh, my God. This is really shooting me, and I look great, and I look just like a footballer. It's brilliant. He really taps into it. Is he an Arsenal supporter? He is a big Arsenal fan. Yeah, I thought he was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love him so much. And by the way, I've seen him bumped into him in the street where he's working in Arsenal. So he does do it, but he brilliantly takes the piss out of how funny. Because it's become completely, like, now more than ever, but guys are wearing football strips. Yeah, my brother is slightly aging. He's an Arsenal supporter. He wears his football top all the time.

32:51Oh my God, yeah. I'm always faintly horrified by it. It has to be said. Oh, well, it's now like complete pop culture. Yeah. Just general. Shall I start wearing them? Yeah, I think you should. Who would be your team, honey? Oh, I mean, I'd definitely be a Spurs supporter. Do you know what their full name is? I mean, I'd go along with that. He would be a Spurs supporter. I shall, from now on, whenever we do a live show, I'm going to wear a full Spurs kit. Liam is a massive Spurs supporter. Is he? I can borrow his. Yeah, you can. Okay. Problem solved. Yeah, so Rob Ryan's Honky Donk Road Trip. I've watched another show we can't review that's Embargo, which is called Boots.

33:25I mentioned it the other week, it's on Netflix. It's based on an actual memoir by a gay guy who joined the American military in the 90s when it was banned. No. He wasn't allowed, talking of banned is my theme of the week. Yeah, he is. He wasn't allowed to be in the military. This is about the Marines. if you were gay. Was he openly gay to the people that knew him in the military? Not really, just to his best mate, no. Okay. But it's as much a gruelling look at, it's quite topical because you know they just, you know Hesketh, the current American secretary of state for war, right, or whatever it's called, he gathered all the military yesterday, and they had to listen to him pontificating about this shit, and how soldiers should be soldiers, and you know, you've got to get people who are overweight in the military should be thrown out.

34:06And this series is about the gruelling training and the way people are treated when you join the military and what you have to go through. And it is absolutely, it's quite shocking because it's based on the two memoirs. I always find that kind of crazy when they're like, it's just to say, look, I know that you potentially want to give up your life, your country, but you're just too fat. So, you know, for people to even like, it's just like, this person wants to, like, it's madness, isn't it? And they do, funnily enough, they deal with that very issue because there's two brothers in it, one who is overweight and another guy who is, and they clash the way they, their relationship, one of the best things about the series.

34:38It's a real, obviously because it's heavily embargoed. But it's a real shame that it's heavily embargoed because it's an interesting series that we should be reviewing. And finally... Let's say, for example, there was a show this week that maybe didn't deserve to be reviewed. I don't know, we could have slotted that in. Oh, controversial. Interesting. Interesting. Just put that out there. Finally, another show that we can review for embargoes is Riot Women, which is on this Sunday. Sally Wainwright's new show. And again, I'm not going to review it. But what I will review is the screening and Q &A.

35:09because I went to the BAFTA screening last Friday. Did Kay do anything? No, Kay Host is another separate one a while ago. I think the one Kay Host did was for the women in TV group. Okay, because I remember her talking about it. Yeah, she did do a thing. She had a really good conversation with Sally Raine, right? Absolutely. And I think she's interviewed Sally Raine for our podcast. She has, yeah. It should be running soon. But I was really impressed with, you know, I'm quite obviously a harsh critique of Q &As. Not one's the Kay Host. She's great. No, Kay's amazing. But in general, sometimes they do go awry.

35:37But this one was hosted by Anna Foster. who is BBC, she's on Radio 4, she's at BBC. So she's a professional. I mean, you might expect her to be good. Unlike us. As you all are. I know, but she was so good. She was absolutely brilliant. And it didn't look like she had notes either. She seemed to be doing the whole thing off the cuff, which I can never do in a million years. Maybe she had an earpiece in. She didn't. That's what's known in the business, going full Hewitt. Right, yes, exactly. Yeah, Chris doesn't do any prep at all, does he? He kind of doesn't need to. I don't think it shows, does he?

36:05Well, I definitely have to do prep. But she was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And the whole cast were there. And the way Sally Wainwright herself talking about the evolution of the show was fascinating. So I'm not reviewing the show. We'll be doing that hopefully in the next episode. But I am reviewing the Q &A and the event. And it was very good. Okay. Well, we're approximately Chex Notes three weeks into this episode of the podcast. So shall we move on? I'm so sorry. I feel... Do you know what? Well, I did say to James what time do you go to bed? And then half an hour later we found out. Yeah.

36:40It's extraordinary. It's definitely stuff salt. Anyway, let's have our first guest, assuming they're actually even still with us. It's Amy Lee Wood, who won the Saran Jones custody battle this week, leaving Jodie Whittaker sadly on her own to talk to Boyd Solo a little bit later on. But Saran also co-stars with Amy Lee Wood in Film Club as her somewhat cringe but very well-meaning mother. And she's dealing both with her daughter's silver screen obsession and her ongoing agoraphobia. This is Amy Lee Wood's show, we should say, which he co-created with Ralph Davis. And here's Amy and Saran versus Boydie.

37:12Camera's rolling. Camera's rolling. Rolling. Welcome, Amy and Saran, to Pilot TV Podcast. It's been about a month since we've had you on, Saran, as you remember. Yeah, I do. Yes. I keep seeing lots of people coming in, yeah. Yeah, I bet. But is that accidental listening that all your projects suddenly end up on TV roughly at the same time? No. I mean, I can't believe it, because then I've got frauds coming out. I'm doing a junket for frauds. I might see that. So no, it feels like I went away working for three years And then now they're out within like a month of each other So no, it feels, if you don't like Saran Jones, don't watch But if you do, it's like a Saran Jones celebration Which everyone does So everyone's having the time of their lives Yes, 100 % In fact, I was going to ask you, getting Saran to play your mother in film club That's a massive coup, isn't it?

38:03Was that always your plan all the way that it would be Saran Jones playing your mother? I was saying it was Saran from the beginning, from the first moment that we had the idea, Ralph and I, we started and I said, it has to be Saran. Like it has to be, because it was her voice that when I was writing the lines, it was your voice was in my head for years and years and years. And then when she said that she read an early draft and was like, yeah, I want to do it. And I was like, oh, I really can't believe this. But I was saying the moment when I first heard the words come out after like five years and we were on set, it was magical.

38:39It was magical. But it was always Saran. Yeah, brilliant. It was a dream. And for you to do a comedy again after a while, I think, how did that feel? And did you feel like, you know, you kind of got the tone of it from the off? Because she's a very intriguing, eccentric, I think one could say, figure. Yeah, but I never thought that she was eccentric. Like, in a way, like, because you'd be laughing at, like, things I was doing. But Suze is quite like she's she has fun, but also she's quite serious. Courage of conviction is quite something. So she doesn't feel like she's that she's in her own Suze bubble.

39:16So to be honest, I was like everything she did was just with a bit of gusto. And she loves life. And she did it for like 100 percent, like for love for her family. Big protector. So I had a lot of fun playing her, but sometimes I go, what are you laughing at? Honestly, and we'd all be like crying. I think that is always what is so funny, isn't it? Because the characters don't know they're funny. This is high stakes series. And the way that I think that the mother and daughter have a lot in common here, which is that film club is so high stakes. They're both living every day like it's a five act Arthur Miller play.

40:00it's even though it's like actually things uh in this just the house and the garage and they've got this little world but to them it's big it's all big and it's big feelings it's the feelings that are so big yeah so let's go right back amy so where did this what was the kernel of this idea where did it come from and you know why had you written stuff before did you always want to write stuff or was it putting this particular idea that you wanted to i always wanted to write i actually didn't ever really want to be an actor i always wanted to be a writer and then the acting came about as a way to make friends and that then took over but I was always more kind of in love with writing and Ralph and I met at drama school and we on the first day we met we said oh we're gonna write something together one day because we just had an immediate kind of secret language and so then yeah and then it's we met 10 years ago and it's been five years since we first came up with the idea it was lockdown and obviously no one could experience the world in the way that we're used to everyone was confined into these their own little worlds and so the way that we all were kind of experiencing the world was through film and tv and we needed it more than ever and we needed books more than ever we needed stories more than ever and so the idea kind of came from that need like let's explore the need for film like the the real kind of and it's it is evie's lifeline it is her it's hope it's her way of staying kind of you know in the world it's her way so so yeah it came from that and also i think everyone just knows what it you know when you just have that we really wanted to write about people who have a bit of a fanatic obsession with because it's such a it's such a fun thing to write as well just people who love something so much and then like the whole question was is it the films they love or each other and that was kind of where it began and you know i think during covid it's so interesting you were like writing it then because that's when I came to a realisation that what we did as actors, as entertainers, as storytellers is important.

42:21Because I think before that I used to be like, well, you know, we're not saving lives and kind of like bat it off. But actually it became so important to people to be able to have a connection to say, oh, that's me. And that representation of being able to then talk to someone else and say, have you seen that film? It's like something that we do every day. It's so clever. Yeah, it's really fun to see people's obsession with films put on screen and turned into a kind of celebration of that almost, isn't it, I think? And how did you choose the film? I've only seen the first two episodes, but it feels like there's a film per episode.

43:00There is a film. So we've got Alien and The Wizard of Oz in the first two. Did you have a list, you and Ralph, of what you wanted to do, or you kind of knew somehow that these were the films? Well, we kind of decided them through what Evie, through Evie's mindset in each episode. So in the first, we wanted to really introduce the idea that life right now for Evie feels like a space mission. So Alien was, you know, she feels like she's in peril, just like just walking to the shops. So that was kind of the perfect film for that opening episode. Because also we've been talking a lot about courage and success and how for some people just where they're at, a success is just getting out of bed that day.

43:48So for Evie, it just felt like that kind of Sigourney Weaver hero. It would be heroic if she could just make it past the bin. It's shot so beautifully, though, because from in her head to reality, Catherine's done such a beautiful job. It just looks fantastic. Yeah, it's incredible because it feels, obviously, I presume BBC Three budget isn't necessarily, it's not going to be up there with, you know, the White Lotus or anything, but it looks great. And the ambition is there, isn't it, to show these films being played out in these scenes. And what was amazing was everything in the garage was made by art students.

44:24I think it was in like Manchester Uni. So it, because they wanted it to look great, but also like it has been, you know. Made by her. Made, yeah. So it was all that kind of stuff, like getting really clever and industrious with things and resourceful was really fun because it felt like what Evie has to do every week. And Fiona, your makeup designer, was like just amazing. Like, because some of the looks like throughout the episodes are really big things to achieve. And she was frantic at some point. Yeah, she was. But she pulled it out of the bag, Fifi. You're brilliant. Yeah. And what did you make of the concept, the whole idea of people's obsession with films and kind of how that plays out in the series?

45:11You know, I've never been a huge film buff. So to me, I like certain films that really speak to me, but I'm not like... I was watching your Criterion Closet, actually, the other day. And you're just like, your knowledge is like so superior. I'm like, oh, I like what I like. But that's the beauty of it, isn't it? It's what speaks to you. So it could be any film that speaks to you. I love The Wizard of Oz. But I feel like what really drew me to it was the characters. So it was, yes, the film club is gorgeous, but it was the mother-daughter relationship and the touching on mental health and family and, yeah, all of the emotional intelligence within it.

46:02The mental health stuff is really interesting, is it? Because you kind of subtly deploy it. You're not quite sure. There's a reference to you, your character, not wanting to go out for six months and having a wobble. Exactly, which is a brilliant word. And then we see you kind of having your date, in quotes, in the second episode where you kind of allude to things that not, you know, distressing things that you might have been through. But it's very lightly played. It was that kind of, to get that tone all along, did you talk about that and how, with Ralph, and how are you going to establish the tone?

46:30Yeah, we kind of, you know, life is always tipping between comedy and tragedy. Just every, like, if you're sobbing with your best friends two minutes later, you could be hysterically laughing. So it's like, we wanted to find that. And, you know, there's more stuff that as the series goes on, you understand more about where these women are at and everything like that. But we wanted it to feel like life where people don't just come in and talk about their stuff. You know, actors do quite a lot. But, yeah. But like, you know, people who are just trying to, like we say, trying to survive and live their lives and just do their best.

47:13it you know it so we wanted it exactly what you said we wanted it to kind of leak in like it kind of comes out sideways and it kind of oh we just learned a little bit more about what might be going on when they don't know because they don't know they don't know so we as they learn more about what's going on so do the audience like so it's it's yeah because they don't know we they don't they're just it's life's just a bit overwhelming right now and yeah and They need to untangle it and start to go into the feelings. Do you think that this show, do you have influences on yourself? Could you have come up with this show, you know, before you did Sex Education, before you did the things we now know you're very famously for?

47:56Or would this have been the same show if you'd have written it, if you hadn't done any of those other things? It's funny because I showed it to my best friend the other day and it was so nice. We watched the whole thing, but he was like, this is so you. And he's known me since I was 20. So before anything, and he was like this. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, I see. Yeah. So I think probably a lot, I think we were talking before about I've worked with these amazing writers and I feel like I've like seen how they all approach things differently. And I feel like I've absorbed really helpful things. but I think the whole kind of, I think it maybe always would have been something like this.

48:40But you never know, do you? Because you don't know what, and sometimes I said it, what's so amazing about it is that you don't know what it's about until after it's finished. Yeah, yeah. You don't know, you just like writing it. And that's why it's so hard to pitch TV shows because they're like, what happens next? I don't know yet. I need to work that out. I need to work out, you know, and it comes whilst you're doing it. And then when you watch it, you go, that's what I was - Oh, that's what I meant then. That's what I meant. And that's what I was trying to tell myself. Yes. But it's only after.

49:10So it's kind of trippy. Yeah. Yeah. How long ago did you film it, by the way? How does it fit into the different schedules of the shows that you've done? You'd just finished White Lotus. I'd just finished Hostage. And then we both did that. And then I went off to do Frauds. You were doing all the press for White Lotus. and then went on to do The Idiots after that. So it was, for me, it was like such a beautiful, warm, light relief because a lot of my characters can be heavy and I was producing on both of the other shows. So I got to just turn up and say the lines and watch her have all the stress on this one.

49:53And to go from playing the Prime Minister to playing a... It couldn't be more of a contrast, could it? No, there was less Prosecco on Hostage. There's a lot of Prosecco. There's a lot of Secchi. very very dry though very dry has to be dry thin glass yeah which now I get I really get that yeah it has to be you can't have a sweet for supper no no no no no no way absolutely and for you so you were doing press for the white and you knew that was a massive phenomenon does that give you a boost of confidence for this do you take anything from that I think it actually made me more nervous because the stakes felt higher because it was like doing this very vulnerable act at the same time as more people know who you are you know what it's toxic town that just kind of come out as well so yeah yeah so they came out and it all just felt a bit like don't look everyone stop stop just go you know like being perceived on quite a big level can be scary we were just talking about like having to just connect to yourself and like Like it's hard to do that when things are amazing, but big.

51:01And so I think it kind of made me have a bit more pressure. I'd also been living in a hotel for seven months with the same group of people just before I did it. So a lot of doing this show, filming the show, was me coming back into the real world, which felt quite easy. But like - It wasn't your real world. It was Evie's world. It was Evie's world. So I was like, how do I, because it took a long time to get used to being back in England, back in kind of just every day. And it was the perfect thing there because it was like a hug and it was like home and we had fun. We had a lot of fun. So have you become friends during this process?

51:42Yes, it's a lot of fun. Straight away. It was straight away. And do you watch each other's stuff? Have you watched Hostage? I've not watched Hostage yet, but I am going to watch Hostage. I have watched Toxic Town and I have watched White Lotus. Yes. They were quite good, weren't they? Brilliant. I was going to swear then. But no, but I kept like messaging you for every episode. I was like, and now this is going on like you didn't know what was going on in my list. Do you know what just happened to you? I've just been honest to God. Yeah. And there's a lot that you did go through. Would you like this to be, this feels like, by the way, it's like a kind of unique idea that you've brought to the screen.

52:18It's quite different to anything I think I've seen, certainly recently. Would you like this to be an ongoing returning show? Is that in your... I think what I like about the ending, which you haven't seen yet, is that it could go... It could be a very... It could just be that. It could be a standalone thing. Or it could go on. But I think it's nicely kind of undecided. And Saran, I am interviewing Jodie Whittaker on Wednesday for your show, Frauds. What do you think I should ask her? What could you ask her about? Just being up in the mountains. It's broad, but God knows what she'll say. That's the last question.

53:06Congratulations. I loved it. It's great. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was Amy Lee Wood and Saran Jones. We should probably move on to this week's news. What have we got? Who wants to go on the spot first? Boyd. Okay. my news is that it actually touches on a show that we haven't been able to review as well which is Monster the Ed Gein story that's right we haven't because Netflix said we're not putting out any screenings of this in advance it arrives this Friday sorry it would have arrived on Friday in fact by the time this comes out but we couldn't review it but I have read features about the show from the big American showbiz sites and publications like Variety and Hollywood Reporter and Charlie Hunnam who plays Ed Gein is on the cover of Variety and there's a big interview with him which is quite interesting but we haven't seen it yet and I'm furious about it because I'm fascinated to see it I'm quite furious about it I'm furious I know because I keep because what they keep doing is putting these amazing posters up everywhere and it looks so exciting looks really striking and interesting yeah but all I'll tell so the news that I take from it I don't know whether to do this in news or in other stuff but is that the guy who wrote about it for Variety said the result is the year's most daring TV performance from Charlie Hunter really rooted in a painful just barely recognisable humanity and apparently the first scene is quite shocking in itself I won't spoil it well people have seen it but anyway apparently from the description of the first scene this is going to be a wild ride from the Ryan Murphy production team and the whole Ryan Murphy factory I mean anything less would be wrong though from him wouldn't it that's true that is true so that's yeah I consider that to be a new story that people think it's really good even though we haven't been allowed to see it okay good to know there is a new story that I wasn't sure I was going to bring up on this podcast because I'm definitely going to bring it up on the Empire podcast.

54:52But I'm going to get your take on it. Well, is it? That's the question. And I want to talk to you about Tilly Norwood. Oh, yeah. I want to see what you guys think of Tilly Norwood.

55:30I think it's a load of old shit. involved in this thing that no one really understands. And I think AI is a thing that still no one really understands. But people are going like, if we don't do something involving AI, then we're going to be left behind. Left behind what? Oh God, if I hear that one more time. You have to get, you have to, you have to work with AI. That's what everyone's saying. You have to work with AI now. Because otherwise, yeah, you will be left behind. What? We're lying. Well, are we going to be left behind if we don't have fake human beings being turned into actors by AI? No, we won't.

55:59It's just absolute bullshit. I know. It really infuriates me. We should say that we do have an expert in the room here. Oh, right. My monthly magazine did actually put out an AI podcast. So, yes. Last year, I was tasked with getting on board with AI and making an AI voice-generated podcast. Now, we did that, and we put out like eight episodes of this AI-generated podcast. And I don't think you could tell. the scripts were written by my deputy Lisa. So it was... And so the scripts, the AI didn't write the scripts at all? The AI didn't write the scripts at all because we tried that and it didn't work.

56:39So we were working out, you know, a load of sort of things that were wrong with kind of AI technology. But yeah, I... Did it get loads of listens? No, but it got enough listens that I think people didn't realise it was an AI. Was it read by Tilly Norwood? No, it was. I don't know. Weirdly, I just had this conversation up says I'm just adding a puzzles page to my magazine right and the puzzles page is generated by AI but we just had this conversation didn't we and our um the heat editor Caroline just said the puzzles have always been generated by computers that like that you're not not always but you know but she was saying AI we just call everything that's done by computers now AI don't we which is true we do kind of now call everything back to Tilly Norwood okay so are you telling me that this person is completely computer generated.

57:31So I think what kicked this off is that the creators of Tilly were shopping her around for representation in Hollywood, like trying to get her an agent. It's fucking ridiculous. And off the back of that, which let's be honest was deliberately provocative. Kind of. It has caused a lot of people in the industry to now react on the record to how disgusted they are by this. Well, she's got that face that came out the other day, like the perfect AI face that everybody likes. that's what she that's what she looks like doesn't she yeah oh my god it's so crazy so they were shopping her around oh and and they've put her in loads of films they've put her in like loads of there's loads of images on here where she's been inserted into like films so obviously her digital fake resume yeah why what's the fucking point that's what I meant about the crypto theme people don't even know why they're doing what they're doing like why would you need representation it doesn't make any sense it's idiotic the whole story is fucking stupid well thanks for it there you go you know it really annoys me okay well sorry Tilly an uplifting nice exciting story I'll give you which is that I mentioned this a couple of months ago when it was rumoured this project to be happening but now it's been confirmed officially and very young Frankenstein is going to happen it's an FX show it stars Zach Galifianakis Kumail Nanjian how do we say his name?

58:52oh Zach Galifianakis how do we say his name? Zach Galifianakis oh Kay would have been so proud I know, yeah. I don't know why I always get Zach Galifianakis right, but I don't know why. Sorry, say that again. Zach. Zach G. Zach Galifianakis. Yes. Kumail Nanjiani, Dolly Wells, among the excellent cast being put together for this clear spin-off from one of the funniest comedies of all time, Young Frankenstein, the Mel Brooks legendary, absolute classic. Carrie Ells is in it as well, from Robert of Men in Tights, another Mel Brooks thing. Exact plot details have been kept under wraps, aside from the fact that the pilot is inspired by the Mel Brooks Gene Wilder film Young Frankenstein that's all I need to know I'm fully on board with that one yeah I don't care oh of course you don't because it's a classic comedy exactly yeah do we have any other news it's been quite a light week for news no I have no news but can I just pose a question so like Nicole Kidman is getting divorced right yes I heard that she's divorcing so you heard that right do you think that her recent incredible success with all of her amazing projects because she has not, like, she's done banger after banger after banger after banger.

1:00:01It's why she's having to get divorced. She's got too big for him. No, maybe. She's had a lot of, when you say banger after banger after banger. She has found, right, she has found a space for her face. Like, a space for her face? No, like, you know how her face is incredibly Botoxed, right? So she can't move. Allegedly. Allegedly. She has denied this, I believe. Nick, Nick, Nicole, come on, babes. Let's be real. Nikki babes. Okay. But she has found role upon role where the requirements are for her to have that aesthetic, okay? And she plays it perfectly and she does brilliant. And she's obviously an incredible actress.

1:00:43And I just find it fascinating that when her career has had this tremendous, like, I mean, she can do no wrong at the moment. Would you say that? she didn't get some of the TV what was the Nine Perfect Strangers has had some bumpy reviews that was alright it was alright but it wasn't it was kind of second season probably better than the first but it wasn't the university thing and what's the Netflix show I don't think Ex-Pats Lioness has got very good reviews and that's kind of she kind of cameos in that she's not really a major role she's the boss person isn't she but what was the baby girl the big little lies obviously yeah brilliant brilliant the undoing the mad one I love that as well the one where last year's one on Netflix where she was you know there was the murder Baby Girl no no Baby Girl's the film yeah with The Perfect Couple Perfect Couple The Perfect Couple you know I always forget the name of The Perfect Couple because it's such a stupid name for that show it's an idiotic name with Liev Schreiber The Perfect Couple makes it sound like The Bachelor or something doesn't it yes I know what you mean but yeah Liev Schreiber thank you yes that was I enjoyed it but that was some people thought it was like she's doing the same thing again Yeah, but that's why I think it's so clever about what she's doing.

1:01:52I know what you mean. But yeah, she does keep herself busy. That's for damn sure. Well, yeah. Isn't she also in this film coming out, I think I'm seeing next week, about abuse allegations at university and stuff? Oh, yeah, maybe. Yeah, anyway. Anyway, just, I didn't have any news, but I think it's an interesting point, you know? She's going to be in Scarpetta coming up as well, isn't she? Oh, yeah, that's interesting. The Patricia Cornwell adaptation. She's really cornered the market. it's of that kind of like that age of actress in that kind of role because she sort of plays as you're alluding to she does kind of play the same Nicole Kidman oh Nicole Kidman's in this scenario now oh she's in this scenario now do you know what I mean?

1:02:32I feel like I'm being really disparaging towards her I'm not a little bit I'm sorry like look you know what whatever keeps you young would that be you know injectables or fillers or whatever wow is that what they're called now injectables injectables yeah when you have like she doesn't have them obviously as she's stated she just moisturises you're back jacking now talk about reverse ferret she just moisturises wow anyway I've seen her quite quite close I've been quite close to the girl Kippen's face legally or no legally are you on a list somewhere no it was legal at a BAFTA event yeah and do you know what I didn't the thing to say is the top level A-lister gets the very best don't they injectables allegedly no no no I'm not saying she What I'm saying is she didn't look like she did have that.

1:03:21Right. Okay, well, there you go. She was perfectly natural to me. I take it all back. Yeah, so I was like, oh, you know, actually, she's kind of incredible, but not particularly... Injected. Injected with injectables. Dear God. Sorry, James. Dear God, indeed. Let's bring it back to something to do with spaceships. Let's do that. I'm going to wrap news, potentially prematurely, but also for my own sanity. Sorry, James. So we're going to need to move on now to, well, this week's second guess which is Jodie Whittaker who also stars with Saran Jones in which they play a pair of con artists Outerland won last very big score now you can watch Frauds now but you can also hear Jodie here chatting about it with the Boyd wonder apologies it's me again yeah sorry it is hi Jodie Whittaker welcome to the Pilot TV podcast hi Boyd my first bit wasn't recording so I can I can be mean again if you want for a record for your podcast I basically just went could you get any bigger earphones i'm wearing massive massive technically brilliant put up a selfie yeah headphones yeah i'll put up a selfie i'll put up a selfie yeah i look ridiculous it's true you don't look ridiculous you look you look like you're bringing in planes i am yeah on the sly i'm built bringing in planes yeah air traffic control is here is here how are you doing a couple of days ago i met up with i interviewed in fact I'd go as far as to say, the highly talented Sir Anne Jones Did she mention me?

1:04:50She did and specifically I said to her I'm interviewing Jodie Whittaker on Wednesday what should I ask her and she said just say mountains

1:05:00And then I go There's you

1:05:06What was wrong with the mountains The mountain is beautiful The mountain is absolutely stunning It's the huge volcanic mountain in the centre of Tenerife. There's a tourist spot. It's absolutely wonderful. When you're up it from 7 a.m. to whatever, p.m., and you go through every type of weather, and I think this was the thing, when you location scout it, you go, oh, my God, it's so sunny, it's beautiful. But if you location scout it, you probably do like half an hour there. when you're doing an entire day you get torrential rain sunburn and then like gorillas in the mist kind of like thing and no bars on your phone right the amount of times i've stood on a rock and i'm gonna signal it's like oh you're all right everyone knows where you are but what about all the whatsapp groups yeah but yeah it was brilliant and i absolutely adore her and I can't I mean I imagine when you were talking to her it could have been for one of a million jobs that well and is pressing at this moment it probably wasn't for frauds was it it wasn't for frauds that's why I'm talking to you instead for frauds exactly but yeah she's in a lot all arriving at the same time shall we say we should say yeah by the way all of this talk of the mountain and it's all in the service of filming frauds right you were filming if it was with the great saran jones yeah we weren't just on holiday and ten although a lot of it did feel like that it was amazing it was so beautiful I mean you know we let we were there from the beginning of January I was like oh so sad that it's cold in England so sad and I would sometimes like god it's rained in Tenerife today and everyone's a bit like two fingers yeah so um but it was yeah it was um it was an amazing job because it felt so different and I think you know in Saran's probably kind of slightly going a little bit loopy in what she has to talk about because there'll be like three totally contrasting jobs but what is really brilliant about broads is that because she's created it with anne marie you know it it's a part obviously she's never played before and these characters that she felt they hadn't seen before so that's why i think you can tell there's just so much joy in the creation of this world and it feels very other it feels like red completely different and you know i've seen the first two episodes and i absolutely adored the look of it it's got a great tone to it it has a brilliant soundtrack i can see in your backdrop you've got a load of records and music stuff and like to me soundtracks and the use of music within television and film is so important and and i think that there it's it's feels really bold and you also have these characters that kind of, not necessarily met before, but have a familiarity to be able to be realistic but they're so multi-layered and what's wonderful playing opposites around is that you have this friendship that covers all, you know, they're lionesses for each other and then they're two lions attacking each other, it's like any given moment, but her character particular is so funny so even if sam my character is just fuming there will be a one line a brilliant anne-marie one line that kind of flips the scene on its head and you know you see this love and this history between them that's very complicated absolutely yeah i was when i watched the first two as well and um what struck me halfway through i was thinking you'd really normally you'd expect jody to play the the burke character and maybe saran jones to play the other character you're like the third person to say this and i don't know if i should be offended that i should play the person who's just been released from prison it was absolute chaos well well i don't know maybe you know take it whichever way you want i mean no i'm absolutely no it is really what i loved about it being sent it was just i i'm so like i feel like what's brilliant about sam is it's so challenging because i'm obviously have no sense of i don't read a room i say everything i'm thinking out loud yeah and the kind of the i have zero ability for walls whereas what i loved about playing sam was this kind of hidden rage i've definitely got that but it's less hidden but you know that kind of that kind of that hugely protective shield she's built up for 10 years because this person who is you know the ultimate soulmate and the ultimate destructor for her is is back in her life and i think that it's like we meet them just to give context you know because people haven't seen it sat birch just spent 10 years in prison for a crime they both committed but only one of them went down for and they are reunited but these are friends these are lifelong friends who are each other's family essentially you know not non-related family they are they they've had this very addictive friendship for since their late teens and I think it's brilliant to play people that have so much history but then also have this kind of this unfamiliarity because they've had this 10-year stint of a part yeah but what's such a brilliant observation though is is the contrast between the two of you right because you see so many i see so many friendships of people where there's one really big big character who's absolutely laying it all out there in front of you whether you want like it or not and and a kind of more um a quieter karma but as you say with lots of reserves of anger probably within her but it's that's such a common relationship um interaction isn't it i think and it really picks up on that so interestingly.

1:11:08What I really loved about it as well, because obviously within this genre, it feels really unique to see it and follow it from these two women's point of view. Like, you know, in that sense, it's an art heist, TV show, and essentially it's all women that are involved in the heist. You know, in that sense, like the person they're stealing it for, is a woman you know the the collection of without it I mean maybe it's a spoiler but you do meet quite a lot of characters that will continue through and you know majoratively a lot of these characters that were mean are women and I think that that's so fascinating for this world but I also think what's great about a show centered around people who have got a kind of criminal past is that there is it's showing the slight addiction to that adrenaline so you know for sam she spent 10 years away from this world cut all contact with anyone in it hasn't committed anything and is essentially trying to you know re rebrand but the rebranding of that is living in absolute solitude by herself and not really facing the world and as much as she wants to suggest that that's a choice that she's happy with the minute Bert is back in her life and giving her this opportunity to enter back in I think Sam would say she's a kind of slight victim pulled into it but what's brilliant to play is knowing that that person is also an adult who is making those decisions for themselves selfishly and with a kind of intoxicating adrenaline that comes with you know that kind of behavior and i suppose what's interesting for sam is having to admit that she's missed it and she's missed her and you know often i played a lot of like two-hander kind of roles but this feels a really brilliantly complicated and fun and challenging friendship yeah absolutely and because it's what's interesting is like as soon as she agrees as soon as sam agrees to go along with the scheme, the madcap scheme, to steal this Dali painting, she's loving it, right?

1:13:29You really have a good time. You can tell. Yeah, straight back in. Also, it's like, I'm in charge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that that's what's great about their dynamic is we, you know, we're kind of told they're a duo and then you see that they are. And as much as you, what is brilliant is showing that thing of how you can love and hate someone on such a fine line, and particularly those lifelong friendships that it's not necessarily good for you to be friends, but you can't live without each other either. And I think that's what's great about it. But then also in this world where we meet some other absolutely fantastic characters and none of the actors are shortchanged in that way.

1:14:13Like everybody's role is so brilliant. And also it's fun. it really is yeah i mean i like obviously off the back of half of the stuff you've interviewed me over i'm like this was really fun yeah yeah exactly no i was i was gonna ask i was gonna say that that you know there's a real contrast between the the kind of gritty stuff that's you know very emotional where you're almost crying in every scene i know when i was reading i was like yeah yeah i mean you probably will have to i'm sure there was some emotion but there's a scene in the swimming pool by the way which is quite spectacular right let's just call it without spoiling it the swimming pool scene um which is hilarious and how was that to film absolutely brilliant because when do you get to do that yeah that's this is so weird because people like a swimming pool scene and without giving anything away yeah it was brilliant and i really enjoy things that have a kind of without giving anything away a stunt choreographer to it i really love it it feels like I'm a stickler for a rule and I really love the technical side sometimes of shooting where it's like you have to get that mark to that mark to that mark and obviously something like Doctor Who has a lot of that you know like you have to click that in there and make sure you're not facing the squid when it blows across the wall you know and there is a part of me that really misses those kind of things where you are physically as engaged as you are emotionally and that is a perfect scene for that and represents them both as well because it's it's cluttered yes it's not it ain't john wick no no yeah it's not yeah exactly yeah it's it feels real though in that way because yeah and like that's what i loved about them was like you know you'd want to go on a night out with them but i don't know if i'd want them on my like who to call her and a disaster.

1:16:03Yeah. I fully, I mean, I fully love the extent to which Saran threw herself into this role, by the way. There's a scene where she's dancing, right? Yeah, absolutely amazing. What a tune anyway. Yeah. Also, I wasn't obviously there when they shot that, so I've only seen that in the edit. Right, I was going to say. Just that. It was such a beautiful scene. But also, it would be so funny because I turn up on set and I'd be like, oh my God, I'd wear that. And she'd be like, what? I love that shirt. And so there was just something so brilliantly, you know, different about seeing Saran in that role as well.

1:16:40I loved it. And that's what's so amazing about it. Like, you know, she's very prolific and is creating such interesting work, but she's also creating it for other people to play the roles they wouldn't necessarily get to play either. And certainly for me, that felt like Sam, you know, like you say, I'm not necessarily your go-to for Sam. So that was such an opportunity for me and has been given to me by these other amazing creative women in the industry. Did they have you in mind, you know, Anne-Marie and Saran? They're not going to tell me if seven people turned it down and I was like 25 points.

1:17:16Everyone's going to blow smoke up a bum and tell me I was absolutely number one. Also, I don't care. Some of my favourite roles were someone turned it down or someone got like ill before. I've had loads of opportunities that definitely weren't, I weren't necessarily first choice, but then don't ask me, I still did it. So in my head, I am the only person in the world that was ever talked about. No matter what, even if I want, I owned it. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. You're talking about the look. It does look amazing. It's got that kind of dry. It's a bit reminded me of sexy beast. You know, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1:17:55It's such an amazing film, isn't it? It's such an amazing film. Yeah, incredible. I've watched it really recently for something else. There was a reference for something else and that I'll maybe be interviewed by you for later down the line. I hope so. But I really, I've only just re-watched that recently. And yeah, that's great. But totally as well, it has this kind of like, it has this very, you know, it kind of has this orange kind of sense to it, which, you know, with British dramas, for me, a lot of the time I associate kind of because I see things a lot in colour I don't know if it's I don't know my quirky little brain but I kind of associate colour with certain things and I think that what something like Broadchurch did really well was giving you this beautiful sunny backdrop with a horrific scenario whereas often that's grey dark blues like tonally you were given the mood whereas what's interesting is when tones kind of slightly clash with it as well.

1:18:59But I did think with frauds, what's great about it is it makes it so heightened. And actually these characters are so, you know, it's a certain type of person, especially from the UK that is moving their life. And it has this kind of, for Sam and Bert, it's what you're disappearing from and what you're leaving behind. And I feel like we meet other British characters who are leaving something behind to have this life. in spain and so that brings a lot of big personalities and a lot of color and a lot of sparkles in one of the characters yes yes that character is brilliant yeah yeah um when you're watching it back are you like when you're actually filming it are you aware of kind of what it's going to look like and is that all that i just felt i mean julie's such an amazing director and And I felt that when you're filming very often, you can get a sense that it's going to have a kind of, I don't know if stylised the right word, because I suppose in a way, if you think stylised, you'd go like, you'd think, you know, you very much know when it's a Wes Anderson piece, don't you?

1:20:05You know, the way the shot's set and things like that. And I suppose it wasn't, it didn't feel necessarily like that, but I certainly felt that we were in kind of costumes and locations and character cars and things that felt kind of we were creating this world that was, you know, when you meet Celine, who's the person we're going to do the heist for, that set is not your usual way you meet that character. And I love that. And that feels very Amber-y. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's really interesting, that character, and that whole set-up is fascinating. Yeah, definitely. But then I must ask you, I don't think I've seen you since you popped up in Doctor Who for that wonderful moment.

1:20:52How was that for you? And it just is what a fun time. Well, do you know what? I was filming Frauds. Oh, wow. And so I flew in. So Frauds couldn't know, obviously, because no one can know. Yeah. So getting that day off was obviously, oh, I'm really sorry. It's like a pick-up on a job that I did, like a pick-up or something, in Cardiff and also getting a wig fitting because I've got dark brown hair. Wasn't my wig amazing? It was fantastic. Not like my hair. Yeah, totally, yeah. I know. And so all of that, but the flight landed because I was filming that entire day and then got like the 7pm from Tenerife.

1:21:27I landed into Gatwick at about half past 12 and I got driven to Cardiff, got to Cardiff for about 4am, picked up at half six and got on set to say gobbledygook. So I was like, you know what? I've not missed this. And in my head, I was like, oh, I definitely know my lines. And then as soon as I started speaking, I was like, oh. And what was so emotional was there was quite a few crew members I hadn't seen. I obviously was meant to be quite subtle and, like, led in quietly. I think I, like, leaned out the car window, two-handed waved, jumped on about 15 people. Because a lot of people didn't know I was the character either because I was called Petrol in the script.

1:22:05Yeah. So makeup knew. So obviously they knew. And costume knew. but there was quite a few departments I hadn't been told. So then obviously narcissist me was like, I got shushed at one point because I was mid-talk and two, something was going on. But I absolutely loved it. It was so emotional because as I've made no secret, it's my happiest time on the job. I loved it. I loved all of my time there with every single person that was there who were like family. And then to just revisit it and get to meet Shooty in all of his glory, in his TARDIS, in his amazing costume, and get to do a scene with him was just beautiful and proper icing.

1:22:43But it is, it's a gift that keeps on giving. You just get to keep, it never goes away. And so you get like either that or you get to do a big finish, you get to do these things, doctor. And I think that that is the most unexpected joy. When you get offered the part, you think that's it. And then actually, you know, I'm still, however many years out of it, I'm still calling it on to 13. Quite right. it was such a brilliant moment it was fantastic yeah it's great to see and and i love frauds it's really exciting it's really fun and congratulations and speak to you again soon hopefully yeah thank you very much i hope you um yeah have a wonderful day and probably meet in saran again this afternoon for another question every day there's a saran jones show let's face it yeah in a good way in a good way yeah cheers all right take care bye thank you bye bye that was jodie where to go time now for the reviews and let's kick off with Film Club which yes stars Saran Jones but we've already discussed this it is a show created by Amy Lee Wood and Ralph Davis and it sees Wood as Evie and she's this nerdy film fan who has weekly cosplay nights with her best friend Noah played by Nabhan Rizwan with whom she communicates largely in film quotes which as someone who works at Empire I've never felt more seen which is lovely so I'm going to say Boyd did the interview for this so I'm going to turn to you Steph as a former Empire editorial assistant this level of nerdery should have been awkwardly painfully familiar I would say so tell us how did it make you feel Steph?

1:24:13well this is the one you've watched all of isn't it? of course it is yes it is I think this is one of the most special things I've ever watched wow I cannot say enough good things about it so I watched the first episode and then don't be shocked I watched the whole thing in one sitting. Yes, Steph. I watched it one after the other. Six episodes? Six episodes. I could not stop watching it. The performances are magnetic. Amy LeWood is incredible. Be still my beating heart because Nibban Rizwan is, he is so gorgeous and his character is so lovable and charming without and he said so much with saying so little I just I fell completely in love with him and Amy in in this and I just wanted to be in their life be in that garage with them and find out exactly what happened so I watched every single episode in one sitting now for me who I would never normally do that that was this on your iPad in bed it was on my iPad I watched on my iPad in bed and I was so happy with it I think every scene has a reason for being there it's gosh saran jones is every character in its brain so saran jones who plays the mum suz suzanne they're so well fleshed out these characters it's just they're so brilliantly observed the sister everybody has a reason for being there and it all adds to the magic of this show which as you said before has been written and co-created by amy lewitt and uh ralph davis who plays Dominic in it.

1:25:58I don't know how they came up with this. It seems like a really kind of just quite simple concept to this couple of friends who are at university. Amy Lou Wood's character, Evie, has developed, after being quite functional, has developed agoraphobia. Now she's back at home with her mum and her sister and being looked after by them and her boyfriend, Josh. And they all seem kind of to be helping her through it, but in some ways sort of kind of complicit with having her in the house and sort of maintaining a certain way of her being. And it's about her breaking free. And obviously there's, what's that brilliant actor's name from adolescence?

1:26:39Owen Cooper. Owen Cooper's in it. And even his, he's in every episode, but just for a few minutes. And even the part he plays is just like the local kid. It's brilliant. Cycling round. Yeah, it's just, it's so... I didn't recognise him. It's so magical. It's just, it made me cry. It made me laugh. I think this is one of the most, if this doesn't win some kind of award, I'll be really surprised because, and I think everyone who watches it will have the reaction that it's just, it's special. It feels special. It feels like you've been let into this lovely little world, which is, I was so happy to be there.

1:27:21I can't say enough good things about it. and also I am deeply in love with Nabhan. Like, I'm actually... You know, he did our live show. Yeah. He came to our live podcast. What do you mean? With his brother. What do you mean? Both of them are the ones we had both of them. When for the first series of Juice, we interviewed him on stage at our pilot TV live event. Yeah, I'm going to just say again, you never fucking invite me to these live shows. You're always automatically invited. If you just, you know, it's a given. Okay, well, what you're saying is, me and Nabhan could be... Well... I love him.

1:27:51Maybe, yeah. Like we could be best friends. I love him. I love him. Oh God, Amy Leward. I have to admit, I never watched White Lotus. You surprised me. Yeah, because do you know what? It just seemed like a lot of work. Oh my God. I just couldn't take, and then everything started going on about Walter Goggins and I just couldn't fucking hear Walter Goggins' name anymore. Walter Goggins. Walter Goggins. Exactly, there you go. Walton. I was like, I just, that was started to, that ruined it. Exactly, if it not. But that's just started to aggravate me and I was like, and then everyone started talking about it a bit too much and I was like oh I can't be doing with this do you know what I mean though yeah but you're missing out on a brilliant show you just got to watch it especially with she is phenomenal in it I watched the first season but okay well that's the thing so I hadn't been brought into the Amy Lou Woodverse and I'm very happy to be in it in this way bad sex education you didn't watch no okay interesting no I love her yeah she's absolutely brilliant no and I apologise Amy because you're a sensation she did a brilliant interview don't need me to tell you that she did a brilliant interview this week apart from the one with me which is not brilliant it just is but and I didn't ask her but there was this whole controversy when SNL Saturday Night Live I know took the piss out of her teeth yes outrageous which was absolutely insane yeah I don't know why they did that because I love SNL quite rightly but she brilliantly I think it was a BBC interview she talked about how pleased she was with herself for standing up for herself good for her because it was like reminded of when she was bullied back in school but she's beautiful she is brilliant in this and she is just a fantastic I loved interviewing her she was so she's so is she nice in real life oh god She comes across like...

1:29:21She's completely authentic and fun and engaged. Yeah, that's what she seems like. Yeah, the two of them together, Saran Jones and her, Saran Jones is perfectly cast as her mum. And what a refreshing... Oh, God. We've just seen Saran Jones playing the Prime Minister in the brilliantly preposterous hostage. And now you couldn't get a role. She's this kind of eccentric, kooky, over-the-top... There is nothing Saran Jones can't do. Accurate. There really is. There's absolutely nothing. But it's brilliantly cast. I really like the boyfriend as well, who can't Josh yeah because he's played by Adam Long he's a nice guy trying to do his best he's kind of like helping everyone helping like man about the house type of thing and yet clearly she's obsessed with Nabhan Rizwan the Nabhan Rizwan character who in a seeming the whole it's a classic will they won't they it's a bit like the soulmates idea you know the Brett Goldstein film on at the moment but you don't get it immediately because she's like he's like my brother yeah and his name is amazingly in it Noah Amin that's his so he's first in Noah and text him I mean Noah Amin which he's yeah carry on Boyd but that is so well drawn I think it's so subtle because you're not you're like is this even a thing you know they're really genuinely just best friends can you be just best friends to attractive you know attractive man and a woman who have got so much in common and they both love film I genuinely like the way they speak to each other and the familiarity in the shorthand melts your heart doesn't it it's just magic also just the fact that because it's two people who obviously there's a thing between them that's part of it How many have you watched?

1:30:52I've only seen the first one I've only seen the first one Oh my god please watch all of it I had the different amount to watch what can I tell you but genuinely I loved it I loved it I thought it was wonderful but also it's the shared passion point that they love these films and the fact like and obviously Alien is one of my favourite films not as good as Aliens obviously Boyd but still very very good the fact that they they quote the film to each other consistently all the way through that first episode and genuinely and I can judge about this at the beginning but I've worked at Empire for a very long time Way too long We do communicate like 80 % in film quotes and some of them are really fucking obscure as well Yeah And unlike Amy Lee Wood you're not funny Yes Indeed And she manages to make it funny But I love that and I love this idea that they love this thing and so they have this instant shorthand and I genuinely find this is that I have found it when I have been with my kind of like outside friends I've said something and they look at me blankly and I've realised oh that's for my empire people they will not understand what I'm talking about because I've made some reference that just falls completely flat and I just think there's something about having people in your life who love the things you love and therefore understand your shorthand and your references James you have outside friends well not so so yeah so I really loved that about it I loved this and I thought they were so charming and so lovely it's so enchanting this show is just it really is magical I'm so sad that Kay's not here and I know she will watch this she's made a bed she can line it she's going to have two weeks off lazy it's like such it restores your faith it's just and it's I think it's just so beautifully simple it's such a simple idea I've only watched two episodes oh you're giving for such a treat no no no but what I love I love the fact that first of all when the Bumarri's one is wearing the alien the chest the chest which you can get which I wore as a fancy dress costume about five years ago well he's made that one I think that's a homemade one well it looked pretty similar to the one I've got I believe it was a stocking with teeth but yeah no no anyway let's not lay down that point tell me this though because we touched on this in the interview I think she kind of wanted to hold back on what other films because there's a different film each week is right the main thing so The Wizard of Oz and Alien are the first two then what other ones does she do but she doesn't want me to tell you no don't tell you that's my intent She might have just forgotten to tell me.

1:33:16No, I think it's a surprise. No, because it's really... I can't tell you because it's so integral to how it ends up. The film that they've chosen is like an extra character. It's a metaphor for the episode. Yes, exactly. I get it, I get it. Okay, I'll watch it myself. How dare you try to make me upset, Amy Newwood and Nirvana. But also, I only had two episodes available to me before I interviewed them, which is... Did you? but now they're all there I will watch them but I can't I've never heard you being so positive about anything in life I honestly I'm you're a husband and child this is no I really no one got murdered either it's extraordinary well like I said for me to watch something for me to watch something in one sitting because I could not bear but not even not that I couldn't bear it's just that my level of enjoyment from watching this show was just but you know what's great is why I'm saying my reaction to because I had them to watch in time for my interview with them and I thought, oh, this is brilliant and special, I love it.

1:34:17But I wasn't quite sure if other people would. I wasn't quite sure because it felt quite, partly because of the whole thing, it is very movie geeky. I mean, I do love film. And if you're not attuned to that. But this is an interesting point that you brought up and I was thinking this when I watched it, I was like, I don't know whether Kay will love this or not get it. I was partly thinking about that. I think she will love it. Do you know why? Because she doesn't watch films or like films. But you know what, Kay is very, Kay loves a kind of an interesting relationship story and there's so much in this.

1:34:51I would be shocked to my very core if she didn't think this was absolutely incredible. But I wonder if she'll like it as much as you did because I think all the references will be lost on it. I mean, I love film and obviously I started out at Empire and so I, you know, I know she generally doesn't watch film but I think the films that are in it are so iconic, although... She's never, I know she's never seen 80. we've had this discussion she's never seen Aliens no exactly she doesn't watch films this is the interesting she doesn't like horror scary horror stuff or films listen this is what's interesting about this because it's no accident this is BBC3 right think about it this is fucking two huge stars now and granted when they commissioned it they probably weren't quite as huge stars because I think it was probably before I think she made this after the White Lotus but I'm not sure whether they knew she'd been cast in the White Lotus which was a huge deal before it aired yeah of course but you know this is two true stars and it's really you know BBC One Friday night 9.30 after Alan Partridge should be the story it's been shown late on BBC One by the way as all things are now and it'll be on iPlayer but there's definitely it's definitely on BBC Three for a reason because it feels culty and quite you know and for a specific audience rather than just a general thing that everyone will go oh I love this thing and I think that's partly what James is saying about the the ultra nerdy way in which they dive deep into these films that they love and that's what we all love about it here in this room right now.

1:36:13I mean, yeah, that's true. I hope people love it. But also, I love that just the relationship between these two people. I know what you're saying and I suppose I didn't really think about the fact that I obviously just love, I love film anyway. But I still think, aside from that, just Sir Anne Jones' character is brilliant. I think you might be right. It's like, you know, when I see a film or something set in the world, I don't know, set in the world of wrestling or whatever, and I don't know any of those wrestlers, it doesn't bother me because you kind of think, oh, okay, I don't know the details, but I'm still...

1:36:42But they don't speak exclusively in wrestling references. No, that's true. But the whole thing is about relationships, the relationship between her mother, the relationship with her and Noah, the relationship with her boyfriend, the relationship with her sister. I mean, and also, if Nabhan Rizwan doesn't come out, like, everyone is going to be in love with him. You're obsessed with Nabhan. You really are. Because I watched this on Monday. No, and then I looked him up on Instagram, right? And I was like, oh my God, oh my God. Not only is a very snappy dresser... So you're stalking him full on now.

1:37:11We've always used to, because he's a big star of that as well. Because isn't that one about, what did that win? Yeah, his brother, who's a comedian, and he's got a sister as well. Yeah, I'm fully into him. But in this, I think he's going to break out into a whole other place, because he's in chaos, isn't he, as well? Yeah, I said about that. Yeah. Not from him, I just didn't like that. Okay. That show was kind of a disaster. And cancelled. I think he's going to, like, for me, I feel like, you know like when Regé John Page in Bridgerton and everyone was like oh my god like actually felt like they were in love with him right that's how I feel I feel like me and Nabana I feel like I'm in love with him okay we should I mean this is almost certainly this episode will be submitted to the court at some point during Steph's stalking trial so we should be very careful what we say from this I'm not going to be the only one I'm telling you now it is six episodes of falling deeply in love with, and Amy Leward as well, with these two people, with their communication, with the whole family, but mostly with Nabhan.

1:38:15Yeah, all right, baby reindeer. Right. It's on BBC Three, Wemboydy. BBC Three, Tuesday, the 7th of October, 10 o 'clock, 2025. It's also repeated later in the week on BBC One, I think, late. Oh, yeah. On Wednesday nights, after the news, 10.45, you can watch it as well, BBC One, and it all on iPlayer. Film club then. Next up, we have Johnny Salmon's Dreaming Whilst Black. This one was co-created with Ali Hughes and it sees Salmon return as Quabiner who has now left his day job essentially and is on the road to cracking his way into filmmaking. That is if he can get the break that he is looking for.

1:38:53Let us find out whether the second series holds up by Dreaming Whilst Boyd. Well, can I just say, I have also interviewed Johnny Salmon and his co-writer on this show. So instantly, instantly, like, compromised. Yeah, I'm compromised. I'm in the pocket of Big Ajani Salmon. But we didn't have room, because unlike the Empire podcast, where we run, like, 5 ,000 interviews in the same... Put it on the Pilot Plus. No, no, it's running next week. It's running a next week show. Apologies to listeners for having to listen to me interviewing Salmon again. Hey, look, Salmon, as we know, swims upstream. So he has swum into next week's episode.

1:39:33He has some in the next episode. So the history of Dreaming of a Masterbag is really interesting. It started out as a web series that he and his mates put together themselves, totally homegrown, no production company. They just did it on the fly, kind of filmed it wherever they could, a kind of like guerrilla filmmaking type of thing. Then that caught the eye of, I think, some people at the BBC, and they commissioned a pilot. The pilot for this is one of the best half-hour comedy parts you will ever see. Really? It's brilliant. it focuses on Ajani Samuels' character Quabina he's in a day-to-day tedious office job which is like The Office but with really moronic characters who are all committing micro-racist acts to him it's brilliantly observed it's fantastic I think that's on the iPlayer then they rightly commissioned a full series and the full series went out a couple of years ago now and was absolutely great and this is the second season now and he's in this position where he's kind of like you get what you want, but in the end that can still be kind of infuriating.

1:40:36And his whole shtick, I think, Johnny Sam, he loves writing about is, when you're not the gatekeeper, when the gatekeepers are still basically middle-aged white people in the world that he wants to become a director and a filmmaker and a TV drama creator, you have to kind of deal with it further. A, you deal with these gatekeepers and you have to kind of play the game yeah to kind of somehow get the work you want to do aired and made and also how you kind of face your own friends and family who could be a very judgmental of you if you stray even slightly into compromising territory yeah so what i love about this in the very first episode um you see he goes to a screening right and there's a q a afterwards and one of this this um uh kind of impressive black female executive is there being interviewed.

1:41:27And she's like a powerful figure in the industry. And he's desperate to get access to her. And he kind of meets this other mate who's also desperate to get access to her. And it's excruciating. It is excruciating. And he works out a way of getting into the special secret VIP area, leaving the other guy floundering and not getting in. And he gets to see this woman. And what's brilliant about this thing, and this is just very, very, this is slightly spoiling, but very early in the series. It's literally in the first episode, hopefully. Yeah, I think it's okay. And he actually gets, it works. Yeah.

1:41:58His intervention in putting himself out there. His plucky intervention, yes. Yeah, he's plucking, desperately trying to get a little, tiny bit of access to this powerful woman in the industry. It turns out to be the right thing to do. Yeah, because he wasn't going to get it otherwise and that's what's so good about this episode. You've got to be pushy and difficult and challenging. Respect the hustle, as someone says. Thank you. Respect the hustle indeed. But he deals with all this stuff so brilliantly. I've been to so many screenings like that. And I've seen those VIP areas. Really? And it's hilarious.

1:42:32He does it so brilliantly. He's a really, really clever, talented writer, director, Johnny Salmon. Yeah. And it's all out there. And from then on, you get his agent, played by Jessica Stevenson, is hilarious. Oh, my God. Was she in the first season? Yeah, she was. She was, yeah. She's really good. Jessica Hines, we should say. Sorry, Jessica. I still call her Jessica Stevenson. It's been a while. How long was it? It has been a very long time. 25 years. She's fantastic. Then he faces his friend, Amy, played by Danny Mosley, who's brilliant. She's in the TV entertainment field and she's trying to get her stuff commissioned, like come up with the ideas.

1:43:06And then she's forced to work on a show called Hot Baps. Oh my God. That's one of the best scenes. Sorry to interrupt you. So there's a scene where you go to her place of work and she's there with two of her work colleagues and they've been asked to pitch and she comes up with a really great idea and this other colleague comes up with an idea which is the hot baps idea and she's sort of looking and then, I don't want to spoil that scene but there's this whole bit where they kind of accuse their boss of being racist and the other girl says well actually my grandfather's black so I'm going to need to take a moment and to look at she's and then the next day she comes in with oh my god that's the thing he deals with this stuff that's taboo and daring because the character as you say who is a white girl who by the way gets more and more black as the show goes on in a brilliant way he deals with all this stuff that's kind of icky and difficult but he does it with such a plomb that's the thing because it's so funny and I can only compare him to I like comparing him to Ricky Gervais and Steve Emmerchant because I think he's got that brilliant observational skill but it's all about the execution and it's the execution of this stuff that's like, oh, I'm not sure if we should really be talking about this.

1:44:17But he puts it all out there from his point of view quite rightly. And it just works really well. I think it's a fantastic show. Yeah, and you know what I thought was obviously really well observed was that the family dynamic. Yes. When he's in the, there's a scene where he's at the home because they're celebrating one of the children in their family's birthdays. And then his auntie and his mum are talking to him and it's fine because he's not working at the moment. And then his uncle, his uncle, who's brilliant and basically just rips into him about the fact that he just doesn't have a job and how indulgent it is of him to kind of be in the creative arts.

1:44:50And that, as well, it's brilliantly kind of juxtaposed with him and his friend going, okay, well, let's go to the screening and then him eventually getting it, which is brilliant. No, I really, really enjoyed it. I had no recollection of this show whatsoever. I did not remember. I do think that, as we've said many times, my brain has long since been in a one-in-one-out configuration. So every episode of Foundation I watch knocks something else out of my head. I have no recollection. It's like the French-British immigration plan. That's what's happening. That's exactly what's happening. So unfortunately, this got shipped back to France.

1:45:26So I have no idea. I had no recollection. But I looked it up because I thought, oh, they must have viewed it when I was off. And I looked up the back episode and it is literally the episode. It is a none more I was in the studio episode because it's the one where I launched into my massive Taylor Swift monologue. So presumably that's why I don't remember it. And the fact that you're racist. Yeah. Oh, clearly that. But I watched this one and I was like, oh, fuck me, this is so good. And he is outstanding in it. And, you know, even if you don't find it funny, which I really did, although it's very squirm-inducing at times, you get so invested in him and this project that he wants to do and these awful projects that he doesn't want to sell out to do.

1:46:05And I was completely drawn into just the actual plot of it beyond the character and the family dynamics and the fact that it's funny. it's a really really good show and I didn't watch the first season of this and now I regret that so obviously I didn't watch the first season of this and I was really confused at the beginning because I didn't realise this was the second season because I obviously hadn't read your email properly Boyd but yeah I don't think you necessarily need to watch the first season is what I'd say you really don't he worked in recruitment it came back to me like he had a recruitment job I think in the one we saw in the pilot after the pilot you don't see much of his office level it still focuses on him trying to get work and all the things he has to do and compromise things to get that.

1:46:47But yeah, it's... Yeah, what I'm surprised about is because there are really excruciating moments, right? I struggled. I did struggle. I'm surprised you liked this, actually. The two of them at the VIP area bit, I thought was so... I could barely do it without myself. But it's so funny. I see it a lot in real life as well. It's so funny the way he kind of just runs off. Oh, no. Boyd found it hard to watch because he's done it so many times to people. It's very meta though, isn't it? Because it's like, this is a show that he obviously maybe struggled to get on the BBC and it's about him getting on.

1:47:22Yeah, I asked about that and you talked about that. He still faces, yeah, he still has, you have to deal with gatekeepers. Yeah, and I thought it was really interesting the way he tackled non-white directors and writers writing black people's stories, black people's history. His expression, the expression on his face when he is talking to that director about it is priceless. It's good, yeah. But he tackles everything very, very well. And he's very watchable as well, isn't he? Is he another one on your stalker list? Oh, he's lovely. I'll tell you what, he has a great jumper as well. Great, yeah.

1:47:55Oh, with the clouds. With the clouds. With the clouds. With the clouds. That is a sensational jumper. Sensational. Knitwear envy. Yeah, absolutely. To the max. Dreaming Whilst Black then which is series 2 and this turns up on BBC 3 when Boidy BBC 3 Thursday the 9th of October 2025 10.10pm and will also be repeated on another major BBC channel as well and we'll all be available on iPlayer but yes you don't have to watch the first season so don't worry about that but you should it's all there please do but like you can jump in no just skip it or you know watch it yeah but do what you like If you've got some additional time.

1:48:36We now have permission from Steph to do what the hell we like. It's okay, guys. Permission granted. Right. We're running out of time rapidly. Right, go on. Yeah, we've been here for seven days. We have been here for a week. So, finally this week, we have Murder Before Even Song. This is based on the novel by Richard Coles, which stars Matthew Lewis as canon Daniel Clement, who finds one of his parishioners brutally murdered in a pew while Bob Monkhouse is hosting Opportunity Knocks on the telly. Now, yes, this is in fact a Channel 5 cosy crime drama. Yes, it stars Neville Longbottom as a crime-solving vicar.

1:49:12Yes, there is an argument that we should maybe have only covered two shows this week. But if we had, crucially, I would not have been able to describe this ecclesiastical crime story as a touch of the man of the cloth. So, it was all worthwhile. Was it? Yes, Steph, you like crime, don't you? Yeah, I do like crime. Do you like Vickers? What a question. I do like crime. As I've said before, I am not a big fan of cosy crime and I am not a fan of Murder Before Evensong. Right, okay. So you did not enjoy a touch of the man of the cloth. No, I didn't. Is it even cosy though? It's a bit cosy. It's a bit cosy.

1:49:50It's cosy adjacent. It's a bit cosy. Okay, right. It's a bit cosy. Tamsin Althwait's in it. It's a bit cosy. Yeah, and it's all a little... Hey, don't attack Tamsin. No, I love Tamsin. Okay. I'm just saying. I don't think she makes it cosy. her presence well I just it has a touch of the oh you're really having three lumps in your tea she's like the sexy lady in the village so it is cosy sorry I did probably explain that but the murder itself is quite brutal right but sometimes that doesn't matter in cosy crime no it's cosy crime with a brutal murder yeah but in cosy crime the murders are always really outlandish and have loads of blood what about the last scene which I'm not going to give away because it's a plot point but I thought the last scene do you know what I mean of episode one oh that's non-cosy I mean it's campus Christmas I just, you know what?

1:50:32But I'm just fascinated by what's cosy about it. I don't, I think, okay, what's cosy about it? Well, it's set in a village, okay? Cosy points, 10, right? It's got a vicar who sold five, cosy points, 50, you know? They're arguing about putting a toilet in the vicarage or whatever. There's a big country fair, which is a bit like down to heavy, maybe. There's a row about a tractor. they're all driving defenders like old school defenders I mean like a billion like it's super like they have tea and they talk about pies I mean so much tweed from a novel by Richard Coles yeah it's is that yeah cosy what I would say is tea cosy you've damned it to hell obviously no I haven't damned it to hell look right will you be able to watch this whilst doing something else yes you will and will you miss any of the plot points no you won't because it's very easy to follow okay it's just it's fine it's not it's not prestige TV is it no well it's kind of like do you know what I watched it's not you're right it's a bit like it could have been just a little bit more I don't know money I don't know whether it's the budget or whatever or ambition it could have been more it could have been just a bit more cinematic than they bother with and in a way maybe the thought process as well it is it's from a very successful series of novels by Richard Coles.

1:51:56Maybe it should have stayed that way. But you know what I would say is, this is what I was going to say in my opening gambit is, it's better than the Thursday Murder Club. I've not seen that. Right, well I'm telling you it is. And I'll tell you for why. I think, for me, the problem with Thursday Murder Club is that the characters are so paper thin and uninteresting. And even with that cast, you know, Helen Mirren and etc. Whereas this, I think it's taking a bit more time to make the characters slightly more interesting. And the mum, I thought the mum, mother, daughter, Amanda Redmond as the mum was good.

1:52:29Adam James' character is very good. Adam James is absolutely brilliant in everything. Exactly, I agree. He's incredible. I think they're all, and there's two women, elderly women, who are, right? I would say Adam James' character kind of stands out as like, like, he's such a brilliant, not saying, like, obviously Amanda Redmond is. I agree. But he stands out to me as I feel like maybe he shouldn't be in this because he's so good. I know that sounds horrible, but he feels like, It's like, he's, I don't know. I don't know. Anyway. Do you also have a thing for Neville Longbottom? Is this? No. I did not enjoy Neville Longbottom in this.

1:53:02I'm sorry. Matthew Lewis is his actual name, by the way. And Amit Shah is in it from Happy Valley, who's the actual policeman. That makes it super cosy. He really cosy crimes it up, don't you think? But he's in Happy Valley. No, it's not. He doesn't matter if he's in a Happy Valley point. It's not him. I think the performance has a real cosy crime quality to it. Anyway. Carry on. I think it's fine and I think I was mildly entertained to the point where I was actually tempted to carry on watching it I don't believe you at all I call bullshit there is no way there is no way you are going to watch another one of these I just don't believe you we've done this before and I have if I say I'm going to we've had this before the love rat he did all of the love rat I was challenged to watch the rest of the series I don't want to challenge you because I don't think you should spend any more time on it I know I'm probably being but I just think you know what I really like Richard Coles though I think he's a force for good he's a fairly engaging guy isn't he he's delightful in lots of ways actual man of the cloth you know ex-communade singer going back to the 80s yeah of course and I think I feel like I just feel that this is more I'm obsessed with the comparison of Thursday Night of Colour because I think Thursday Night of Colour is such a disaster the film version that this makes me I think maybe that should have been you know a six part series on Channel 5 rather than what it is and this is doing a better job at adapting a successful crime, cosy crime novel.

1:54:23That's all I'm saying. But what I'm saying is that if you, dear listeners, are time poor, as we all are these days, apart from you two who just watch TV all the time, then invest that time in watching Film Club and you don't need to watch this. Is that fair, James? I'm 100%. You could go back and watch the first season of Dreaming Whilst Black, then the second season, then Film Club, and not waste time on Murder Before. I'm not saying it's anywhere up there with those shows. But you're refusing to say it's down there and that's what I want you to say. No, it's fine. drag it Boydie drag it yeah perfectly enjoyable that's all I'm saying it's not enjoyable oh no I think it is I enjoyed it I genuinely enjoyed it in the end I was like this is a bit creaky and clunky but in the end I enjoyed it you enjoyed a creaky clunky cosy crime you sit on a throne of lies you do sit on a throne of lies I'm just more open minded than you there is genuinely bit where the vicar's mum turns up and she's like pick a fight with you you pick a fight with me thank you James at the fucking county fair or whatever it is I mean, it's extraordinary.

1:55:19They have a conversation about whether they need to buy a new fridge. Have you seen the Debs and Abbey film? No, I haven't, actually. There's nothing about what goes on in that. Oh, really? Okay. And that's a prestigious... There's a scene where Amanda opens the fridge to reveal four pies. I haven't got time for that shit. Sorry. There's a real funny moments, though, like when he talks about how there's a whole garden full of buried rabbits. Exactly. That's quite funny. And then there's another scene where they get handed a rabbit through the car window to cook for dinner and then she gets home and she goes look at the rabbit and she goes maybe I could make a few pies out of this and he says no let's give it a proper burial in the garden I mean what is this fucking dialogue I can't do no it's not fun your interactions are very extreme today it's either like the best thing in the world ever or the worst thing should be banned from not banned just not watched right I am calling time on the even song discussion it's on channel 5 It's on Channel 5, Tuesday, tomorrow, the 7th of October, 2025, 9 o 'clock.

1:56:24What else is out this week? Well, I'll tell you what's out this week, James, is The Celebrity Traitor starts on Wednesday. Oh, my God. Yes. BBC One, 9 o 'clock. Be there or be somewhere else. But don't watch it. The Last Frontier. Yes, which is on Apple TV Plus with Jason Fluffman. We're going to review that, I think, on Pilot Plus. Heavily embargoed. Yes. Dominic Cooper's in that. Oh, love him. History boy. the Victoria Beckham documentary starts on Tuesday huge TV event James sorry I'm sorry I'm watching one documentary this week it is Taylor on Channel 4 thanks very much yeah that's true Boots the aforementioned Boots which I talked about before is on Netflix on Thursday 9th October heavily embargoed there's an Aussie Osborne documentary there are actually two Aussie Osborne documentaries there was one last week on BBC there's one on Paramount Plus on Tuesday Aussie Osborne No Escape from Now when is Riot Girls on?

1:57:12Riot Girls is on Sunday yeah this coming Sunday and we'll do that on next week's show We're going to do that on next week's show. Yes. There you go. Riot women, sorry. Riot women. Riot women. Why am I calling it Riot Girls? Because Riot Girls is the phrase. Riot Women. Oh my God. That's the whole point. It's Riot Women. Oh my God. I can't believe we did that. I blame you entirely. No. Okay. Fine. What's our pick of the week? Film Club. Excellent. We're done. Obviously. Watch it. It will make you feel so happy. Well, I mean, Film Club and Dreaming Wars. But two fantastic shows. Oh yeah, actually, you know what?

1:57:40What week for BBC Three? Oh, do you know what? If, if. Not a good week for Channel 5. No. But Boyd loved it. But Boyd thought it was... I loved it. I quote, okay. So there you go. Apparently I loved it. Right. That, thank God, is it for this week's episode of the Pilot TV podcast. We hope you enjoyed it in some fashion. Please do leave us a five-star rating on whatever podcast platform you choose. And do feel free to follow us on the social medias at Boyd Hilton, at Stephanie Seelan. Steph Seelan. Steph Seelan. See? Steph Seelam from Crime Quarterly Magazine and at James C. Dyer and of course at Pilot TV Pod and if you want to send your questions in for the post back on Pilot Plus or indeed for this main podcast the address is pilottv at empiremagazine.com on next week's podcast we will have a Johnny Salmon on here talking Dreaming Whilst Black what else is on?

1:58:28The Diplomat we will be talking The Diplomat you'll know I'll have seen it unless it's heavily embargoed it probably is The Iris Affair is also next week as well we will be doing Riot Women so we'll be doing that as well It's a very, very exciting week to come. And of course, on Pilot Plus, we'll be talking The Last Frontier on Apple. We're going to go and talk to Naban Rizwan's lawyers. Maybe find some kind of settlement. But until then, Pilot's out.