House Of The Dragon and The Light In The Hall: Still Waters. With guest Javier Bardem

33:36I'm going to stop talking about that. Yeah, let's move on. That was this week's listener question. If you would like to have your question considered for abuse by Steph, then please do send them in. It is postbag at pilottvpod.com. Sorry, Philippa. I feel like I haven't answered that. We haven't answered. No, I haven't answered that question. Philippa will be okay. You are remiss. I'm sorry, Philippa. Right. I believe it is time for this week's guest. Should we have this week's guest? I think we shall. And it is a man who is absolutely terrifying on screen. That is, in person. He's actually quite lovely.

34:02It is Javier Bardem. portrayal of some of cinema's most chilling villains from Anton Chigurh, Pablo Escobar, Captain Salazar and of course Raul Silva, the greatest Bond villain. Isn't that right, Steph? He is the greatest Bond villain. And if you listen to Plush, you'll hear me get quite upset with a listener who says he's not the greatest Bond villain. That's right, yeah. Guy. I don't know who you are. He is currently terrorising us as Max Cady in Apple TV's adaptation of Cape Fear and I dialed in to talk to him all about it. Yeah. Exciting. Yeah, it was good. It was good. It was fun to talk to.

34:36There was a little bit of confusion between Sideshow Bob and Bob De Niro, but other than that, the interview went very well. This sounds good already. I feel sick about that. I'm excited about this. It's fine. I talk very quickly. Okay, that's true. Because there was a Simpsons parody of... That's why I brought it up. Oh, excellent. I brought up Sideshow Bob. Very exciting. Yeah. Okay. It may not have landed quite as I'd intended. Did it not? That's one of my favourite episodes of Simpsons. That is one of the best episodes of Simpsons ever. The Cape Fear one. Yeah. Anyway, this is me talking to Javier Bardem.

35:07Javier, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. I have to be said, another genuinely terrifying performance from you in this. And a thought occurred to me while watching this was that no one does these kind of characters quite like you do, which I guess is a compliment. So, you know, that's great. But seriously, like you do have a knack for getting under the skin of these kind of characters. I remember someone telling me once that the key to playing a great villain is that every villain on some level thinks they're the hero of the story. And would you agree with that?

35:37Absolutely. Never heard that. And it's a great quote. And thank you because I'm taking it from now on. I'm sorry. It's a great. Absolutely. They feel they are the star of the show. And it's all about them. And it's all about their needs of revenge, vengeance or yes, or whatever that is and whatever they're looking for. In the case of No Country for All Men, Antón Súñor, he was just a soldier of fate, of somebody else's fate. And he didn't have any purpose personally. He was just an accident to occur. but i think i think that the the good part of those roles is to enjoy them because most of the times are way more complex and way more fun to play than the hero hero is one piece of the man or a woman where the villain you can go as far as you want because you know people are gonna accept it the thing with heroes is they're always reacting to events whereas the antagonist is the one driving the narrative, the other one's actually doing things.

36:43So they're inherently more interesting to play with, right? Exactly. And for example, in this show, Amy Adams and Patrick, that they both are doing a fantastic job. It's true that I was always feeling very overwhelmed by the quality as an artist, by exactly what you just mentioned, how amazingly and differently they reacted to the pressure of Max Katie for 10 hours which is a lot of time to take that tension and not letting go but at the same time playing it in different tones uh i was like wow how do you do that because that's that's hard to maintain it's easier to just do rather than receive yeah i mean you i think you've said in the past like in terms of the intensity that you kind of almost like go somewhere else when you play these characters like it's like you leave your body and you inhabit them and that that sometimes when you're talking to people that you know they're like who are you right now like like it feels like you carry some of your characters with you and you know Max Cady is a very intense guy to be playing for that period of time like is that someone that you carried around with you during the the whole time you were making it?

37:52Not really I mean I'm 57 years old and I've never been that kind of actor that will carry the thing with him around I mean now when I was 20 maybe I thought that was the good thing to do because the Neuron, Chino, blah, blah, blah, Brando. It's like, but I tried like a couple of times and it was like, this is exhausting. And as somebody else has said, if I keep on doing that, maybe I play my best scene on the craft service table. I don't want to do that. I understand people that need to be there 24 seven. I got it. And I've always said the same. As long as your process don't interfere with my process, you're free to go but sometimes those processes can be very uncomfortable for other fellow actors or crew and that's the part that i go i don't know if that's okay because that's very selfish but like in my case i go there i work with great people we had lots of fun we were laughing a lot to to put the stress out and then yeah some days you go back home and you go well that was intense and you sleep less or you sleep more with fever dreams or whatever.

39:04But mostly you go back to your home and you are with your kids and they don't want to see Max Cady. No, they really don't. They want to see that, which I don't know if it's a better word than Max Cady. Is that? Well, something I've heard you mention before is that music plays a big part in your process, that you listen to specific music when you're preparing for a run. I couldn't help noticing recently that you played a fairly large role in the Burning Ambition Iron Maiden documentary. and I was wondering like was like Number of the Beast, Hallowed Be Thy Name, was that the kind of stuff that fed into your Max Cady playlist?

39:36Absolutely, I just made an interview about a heavy metal magazine or a radio station and we were talking about that I'm a huge metal fan and I, of course, Maiden was there, 666, The Number of Beast and Hallowed Be By The Name. I mean, Maiden, it's an iconic band that has gone for so many years doing so much good work and now more like contemporary bands like Bad Omens, Slipknot, Falling Reverse, Evanescence, Linkin Park, which I think they're great. There's a theme, there's a song on Linkin Park that I listen very much. It's called Up From The Bottom from the last album because it's about a man who's really trying to go up from the bottom, from his own ashes and he feels betrayed.

40:25and I go, okay, this makes me feel something inside. It's funny because it puts me in an energy that is very active. Like the metal makes me go like active. And at the same time, you have to restrain that. You have to have 10 hours to express that attitude. So you cannot be on that. You have to go slow. Yeah. Well, here's an Iron Maiden fact with you. Bruce Dickinson, who you may or may not know, was a competitive fencer. he used to teach me fencing at my school so wow yeah that's pretty cool history right yeah yeah he pilots planes does oh i've never flown with him just fenced with him so but look i mean max kady said fantastic character i mean robert mitchum robert de niro but obviously the iconic kelsey grammar uh how much sideshow bob did you integrate into your max kd the thing is when I first read it it's like I'm not going to touch that no why would I but then I saw oh 10 hours 30 years later the world is a different place there's a different moment in history okay it makes sense now if it was a remake of the movie like pure remake of two hours future film I would have never even dared to touch it but I felt okay this makes sense and then I tried to bring the irony of both Mitchum and De Niro performances into this Max Cady, because I think that's a very lethal weapon that he uses very carefully, the irony, to make you believe that maybe he's making fun of things, or maybe, no, maybe he means it.

42:07And that's something that is very present in both performances. More Bob De Niro, less Sideshow Bob from The Simpsons. Yeah, I get that, totally. Yeah, exactly. I've been in The Simpsons once with no crunchy for all men. having that's true yes i remember that man i made it but you mentioned that it's really interesting about the max katie in this because you know de niro's katie is iconic but he's a very uh external character like he's very much what he presents as on screen whereas your max there's so much going on beneath the surface you know his interiority we see his childhood we see maybe what made him you know we have an understanding and the way it sets it up you know is he wrongly accused Is he a monster or is he the monster that 6 ,222 days in prison would make any of us, right?

42:54Exactly. And that question, Mark, which is very important to have in the show, lasts the whole show until the end. Where you have an answer or you may not. and that's the great that's a good part of of the show which is like there are many many grays in every character many ambivalence many contradictions and and that makes you feel unease and insecure about what you're watching like you don't know and there's a moment in the show where you don't know anymore who is who and what is what and that's that's different for from the take of the movies where you know there's a villain and there's a hero here is like oh what's going on which is more uh reliable to our times where what is the truth where is the truth how do we get to the truth of things what is the manipulation of the facts what do we do with information to manipulate people's will uh through technology i mean that's so present that there's there's there's kind of an an a sensation of uh of instability that is very uh scary in the show oh very much so well i've got to let you go so last question i would ask you is this and that's you know, watching the Scorsese film, like, it has a very distinctive feel to it.

44:08It's like a woozy feel. I think it's been described as, you know, like a nightmare swampy vibe. And there's something that Morton Tilden and Nick Anzalska have done here, which is almost similar, but just the visuals of it, where it's hyper-saturated and hyper-real, and it doesn't feel quite like reality, especially, it has to be said, those really vivid contact lenses that you have in this, which makes Katie look almost demonic. And I wondered, like, how much of that was you? because you've won a lot of lenses and a lot of the roles that you've played. Was that your idea to have him look like that?

44:41Absolutely. When I first read it and I saw that there was a panther involved, and you go, oh, that's an idea. That panther, that animal, that predator that takes his time. It's a slow, beautiful, beautiful animal that you will be looking for forever because it's such a beautiful creature to look at. but then boom, it will jump on you. And we went for that. I mean, that was an inspiration for us to create a look. And the contact lenses is an accident because I wanted to have those kind of predator, panther, ice color. But then in the camera test, I put two contact lenses by mistake. One was smaller, one was bigger, different colors.

45:29And we came out of the test and we go, oh shit, I put it wrong. But then I look at myself in the mirror and say, well, this makes sense because he has this wound in the head. And then we make some research and it will be logical that one of the eyes, especially this eye, if the wound was on the left side, will be like delayed it. So it was like, oh, that makes sense. And it's kind of uncomfortable to look at. And I thought, let's go with it. And Nick was brave enough to say, let's go because it's 10 hours like let's let's think about it no let's go let's go i think it makes sense so and that helped me to kind of put distance with with with what i'm portraying because then you take out the lenses and it's like okay i'm going back home it's incredibly effective well javier thanks so much it's a great show really enjoyed it thank you that's javier bardem it is time now for this week's news and we begin with let's be honest the only news story this week well oh hold on or do we not no no I'm saying well it's a bombshell oh yes I thought you were going to say well I've got some other news that's just broken no but it only just broke luckily for us it did we could have recorded the podcast first thing this morning and missed this gargantuan giant news yeah but as it's literally just broken within the last couple of hours it has which is that Russell D.

46:48Davis is saying goodbye to Doctor Who as is Bad Wolf the production company there's not going to be a Christmas special which was the plan cancelled the headlines say cancelled Christmas Doctor Who is cancelled Christmas is cancelled for Doctor Who well for lots of people because lots of people you know quite rightly you know have their day planned around the Doctor Who special well they do I know lots of people completely right yeah and they're putting out to tender basically BBC are putting out to tender so you know the different production companies different indies etc can all bid for their right to run the show who do you think is going to get who do you think Who do you think's going to want it?

47:28Which production company? Oh, I really don't know. I think it has to be quite a big one, doesn't it? Because it's such a huge effort to make Doctor Who, to write, produce and make Doctor Who. And they're going to have to do something really dramatic with it, I think. They're going to do something crazy with it. Do you think they'll leave it for a while? Well, I think it's almost being left for a while just purely because... Logistically. Logistically already. so there's no Christmas special there were no scripts for you know if you like the third season after the if you count the seasons one and two that Russell T.

48:04Davis ran show ran with Disney Plus so now without Disney Plus money they pulled out it's down to the BBC to look for partners I'm assuring co you know American streamers you know it could be like a Netflix slash you know whatever deal all kinds of things are possible but it's going to take at minimum I'm saying like a year before this all gets sorted out and you know they sort out the deal whoever's going to make it the budgets and then find the showrunner and then find the new doctor quite important and so I think it's going to be a while yeah so effectively in answer to your question is it time to take a break however you want to I mean it is effectively taking a break yeah so it's I think it but I thought Rusty Davis' statement was really good yeah read it I'll read it it's quite long I'll read it it's not too bad and so goodbye from me to Doctor Who but hello to a big new future for the show as the BBC announces it's putting the show out to tender as a result there won't be a Christmas special we only cooked that up to guarantee a future when no one knew what would happen so this is the the final series ended with Billy Piper being revealed as the Doctor but now basically what Russell's saying is they can do whatever they want with that they can ignore it completely they could come up with they could ask her to do a whole series I'm just throwing out different possibilities you know I'm not saying any of these are going to happen but he's completely I think it's the right thing to do rather than get bogged down in you know doing an episode somehow with her and explaining what happened from Russell's point of view it's all changed now and everything the whole thing gets a revamp and they can do what they want with that final moment featuring Billy Piper anyway he carries on but now we know there's no need for it i.e.

49:47that extra episode you'll have to wait a bit longer for new Doctor Who but you'll be waiting for more Doctor Who than a one-off so it's worth it for the record there was no script I never wrote it because there have been stories that you know he's finished the script or whatever which is really not true and no actor was ever approached to play the next Doctor you may disagree fine sit in that chair and wait to be proved right you'll wait a long time this is classic Russell by the way he's like cross yeah you'll be waiting a long time he says now I'm as excited as anyone to see what comes next will they keep the theme tune will they lose the blue box will they bring back the draven it's all up for grabs which is so Doctor Who exciting and unpredictable and new.

50:24Here comes the future of the warp. Wow. So, yeah, I think it's exciting. Question. Yes. In your dream Whovian world, right, who would be the next Doctor? And give us kind of an idea of what you think would be the direction if you were in charge that you would take this in now. Kelly Riley. Oh, that's a great answer. that is an absolutely fantastic author thank you Kelly Riley sorry for the bad language but that was a yes Kelly Riley as Beth Dutton yeah that's her as Beth Dutton as the Doctor yes okay yeah the Doctor suddenly transformed into Beth Dutton she's such a fucking brilliant actress that woman is amazing we have to get her on I know you've had her on for Uncharted but we have to get her on but Steph wants to talk to her so I can become her best friend I'm sure she'll do it yeah she's very friendly yeah we need to get Beth and Rip on this podcast was she wonderful yeah she was fantastic the two of them together were brilliant her and Rafe Rafe's ball yeah thank you yeah no Rafe would be a good doctor he would be a brilliant doctor oh Rafe would be a great doctor yeah it had been mentioned before has it by me probably yeah I think he would be good oh god I'm so up for Rafe being the doctor do you know what well I'd like it to go but personally tell us there's been the doctor's got younger and younger in the last couple you know Jodie Whittaker shoot he was the youngest you know I'd go back to a grumpy old man I think Peter Capaldi who got a lot of stick from certain quarters, who I think were completely wrong, by the way, for making Doctor Who, along with Stephen Moffat, was the showrunner at the time.

51:56People complained that it was too grumpy and it was a bit too, you know, it should be lighter. But he was at the core of some of the greatest episodes of Doctor Who of recent times. And I thought he was absolutely perfect for the Doctor. I love, you know, what we've seen him in since. He's such a brilliant actor. I think someone of that stature, you know, back to a kind of older, more, I don't know, dignified, a kind of oozing dignity and oozing kind of charisma. That's the direction I would go, but that's probably not the direction I'd go in because it's probably commercial suicide to have an old man, an old white man as the Doctor.

52:32But I would, yeah, I would look to I mean, this is talking dream territory, but he was, this is actor I'm about to name, was rumoured to have been wanted to be Doctor back in the day, Hugh Grant. you know something like that speaking of old grumpy exactly old grumpy guys yeah so can you ever envision a world where Hugh Grant would do that no but you know but I'm talking about that kind of persona yeah of a kind of yeah intrinsically spiky older guy yeah I don't know Lenny James I think Lenny James would be good he could do it Lenny James is a great shout yeah I can't remember his name that amazing actor that's in Legend and does Holiday Granger Tom Burt Tom Burke, sorry.

53:16Yeah, Tom Burke would be good. Tom Burke would be a great... He's got a kind of off-kilter vibe to him. Yeah, he's very good. I mean, this could go on all day, by the way. I know, sorry, I've asked you a question, which I've now decided to answer myself. James, do you have a shout? I've already given you my shout. You have, and it was bloody great. Well done, you. Beth Thun. Yeah, Beth Thun. I'm sticking with Beth Thun. I am. Okay, fair enough. Right, is there any other news? Yes, of course there's other news. I mean, not as... Well, I don't know. It's... I think... Do you know who'd be really excited about this news?

53:41K. Ribeiro will be very excited. Edward Blumel, am I saying his name correctly? I think so, yeah. Is going to play Poirot in new BBC series, Hercule, okay? And this series is looking at the man, Hercule. They're describing it as an epic portrait of Britain between the wars. The series takes a magnifying glass to three of Christie's most celebrated stories while also charting Hercule's burgeoning friendship with Captain Arthur Hastings. his early encounters with Scotland Yard's James Japp and introducing him to one particular nemesis. So this is going to start filming this summer in Liverpool. Oh, it's very exciting.

54:21I think it's a really good idea. I do too. Yeah, if you're going to bring back these characters, they're never not going to be brought back. No, of course not. Because they're out of copyright. Because they're out of copyright, exactly, to a large extent. I mean, they're chasing behind, aren't they, Sherlock Holmes, who's got so many projects now that have been announced recently. Moriarty's being done, isn't it? And young Sherlock we had already. Oh, I didn't like that. There's a lot of Sherlock's happening, or Sherlock's spin-off. So it's inevitable you'd have a new Hercule Poirot, but to make it a young Hercule, but not too young.

54:55Not too young. Not teen. Not teen like Sherlock. Not YA, yeah. But I think it's a good move. And I think he's a good actor. So we're sure it's not YA Poirot? We're not sure. I'm pretty sure. I don't think it's YA. I don't think it is. No, because he's not that young. How old is he? No, he's not that young. He's 33. You know, he's not a whippersnapper. He's not. He's a grown adult. And I think that period, yeah. A younger, younger, sounds weird, doesn't it? Version of Poirot than an actual youth one totally makes sense. I think the people behind it are good. Okay. Leslie Manville, the absolute legend that is Leslie Manville.

55:33So in November, this show, this comedy, Escorted, was announced. It's with Brett Goldstein. And she is going to star alongside Brett in this Amazon Prime comedy series, which is going to be brilliant. This is going to be eight episodes. And the premise is, have you heard about this? Okay, so the premise is Brett Goldstein's a divorced dad in Manhattan and he accidentally becomes a male escort. Yeah, which to me sounds great. and she's going to play I think she's playing his mum which is a bit yeah okay Terry is a force of nature yeah so that's great Leslie Manville is amazing obviously everything but Brett Goldstein literally turns to gold because he's incredible and James you'll be excited about this right so you know how much you love Brothers and Sisters oh absolutely yeah so Brothers and Sisters so Matthew Rhys has said that he he really wants to do a special a Brothers and Sisters special right yeah yes and he is in talks with Dave Annabelle he's not given up on it he wants a holiday special of Brothers and Sisters to happen so that could soon be happening well good that someone wants it okay I want it and also obviously Matthew Rhys currently starring in The Wonder that is Widow's Bay which James is committed to watching so we can have a spoiler special my favourite show yeah we'll do a spoiler special hopefully when it definitely Netflix has confirmed a return date for Lupin I love Lupin and I've missed it it's been a long time since Lupin was shining our lives brightening up my life and enlivening our lives it's a fantastic show it's going to be returning on October the 23rd 2026 not as far away as Rivals when is Rivals again?

57:23November that is wild there were two trailers this week there was a new trailer for The Bear did you watch this? Oh, I haven't seen the person in there. It's very exciting. I've watched it, yeah. I've used it as the basis for my preview in Heat magazine. Carmi seems surprisingly involved in the restaurant for someone who basically quit at the end of last season. Oh, he quit. He's handed it over. No, he can't be involved. Can you imagine doing however many episodes, eight or whatever episodes, mooching around Chicago? Yeah, it's not just like doing other things. It's not doing my life. It was a bit like, you know, they're having that conversation, and she's like, no, and, you know, the end obviously being, I can't say what the end of that.

57:55No. Yeah, but, you know, then what happens in Gary, and it kind of sets up the whole season five, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I still haven't watched Gary. You haven't watched Gary? No. Oh my God, boy. Does it really set up? Yes, it does. That's a flashback. It goes back to beyond the start. But it has an epilogue. An epilogue which sets up the new season. It does set it up. So you're going to have to watch it. Oh, you should watch it so good. I will, I will. I'll watch it steady. Watch that before you watch any more Paradise. Oh, okay. I like the way you're scheduling my... Yeah, that's it. I am now in charge of you and that is what I want you to do.

58:27excellent there was also a trailer for Lucky with Anya Taylor-Joy and Annette Bening which is one of Apple's new shows I may or may not have watched every episode of that they may or may not have had an on stage session at the Santa Monica Apple event with those very people there talking about that very show and it looked really good yeah it is good oh spoiler spoiler for the embargo it is good the ads are really good anyway I feel like you know when they send out those things and they're like you cannot talk about this but I feel like that's if you don't like it if you like it you surely can just say it's good I can say that I liked it because also it's inferred, isn't it?

58:59Like I watched every episode of it. If I'd hated it, I would have stopped after one. Well, I'll pass you to do a hate watch. That's true. I have done that before. You'd be surprised actually. I have written very positive reviews that should not have been reviews, should have been previews in the world of these things. Yeah. Embargo breaking. Accidentally, by the way, never deliberately. I never deliberately break an embargo. Unlike certain other publications I can mention. Oh, okay. The Guardian Guide. Yeah, with you, it's just pure incompetence. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. it's true incompetence and I have had complaints from certain quite rightly because I've accidentally broken embargo and it could be a glowing thing yeah but you shouldn't have done that because everyone else gets annoyed if everyone's sticking to the fucking embargo and you don't even with your glowing five star review it's still breaking the rules well I think it's I also think people don't readers don't necessarily understand the difference between a review and a preview I know and I think that's where the difficulty lies that's true one being where you haven't really seen it and you're just kind of guessing at whether it's that good or not.

59:57Which James always finds hilarious because we give star ratings in heat to sporting events which he finds absolutely insane. Honestly, insane. Yeah. But what I'm saying is when Scotland played Brazil in the World Cup, whenever that happens, that's a huge event. That's a five-star event. You don't know because you haven't seen the match. No, I know. I'm not judging the match. I'm judging the event. You're honestly, you make a mockery of the very concept of a star rating. It is obscene. I'm sticking to it. I kind of agree with you, actually, James. Thank you. You can't... Traitor. No, but... But you give star ratings to supporting events and to previews of things that, crucially, you have not yet seen.

1:00:32No, no, no. If it's a preview of something you haven't seen, then we put preview and we don't put star ratings. Hang on. When you do a preview and you do put a star rating, what does that mean? That means I've seen it and I'm allowed to give it a star rating by the various... He plays by his own rules. In Crime Monthly, we have Crime Scene, which is our section. Do you give crimes a star rating? this is a four star crime no we would not do that we give crime shows because we exclusively do crime and we do a lot of but Boyd does whenever he does a crime show we're like can we put that in and so we do give star ratings to previews actually I honestly I'm not sure I can speak to either of you ever again I'm sorry but I do agree with you about the sporting event thing because that's a lie giving a star rating to something which is going to be a live event that hasn't happened I don't, it just, yeah, it makes a mockery of all reviewing.

1:01:27Yeah, a mockery. Yeah, okay. I'm sort of, I'm half with you. I'm done with news now. You've ruined news. You've ruined news. We're finished. Right, okay, we're done. Let's move on to this week's reviews. Two of them, as we have them. And first up this week, we have The Light in the Hall, colon, Still Waters. This is, in fact, the second series of The Light in the Hall, because the first one aired in 2022. It saw a reporter investigating the case of a missing girl from 18 years previously. This second series, however, is an all-new case, so you don't need to have seen the first one, and it looks at the bombing of a reservoir, a murder, and a possible frame job.

1:02:02Now, interestingly, and I say interestingly, this is genuinely interesting, because Keeping Faith did this as well. Do you ever watch Keeping Faith? Yeah, I cannot remember it at all. Fine. Well, Keeping Faith did this as well, in that it's a bilingual Welsh drama. They shoot every scene in Welsh and then in English. So back to back, they do the scene once in Welsh, once in English, move on. Do you know why? Because the Welsh, they're such hard workers. Like, as a people, just in general, they're fantastic. Well, so they presumably just want to hear it in their own language as well, which is entirely reasonable.

1:02:33But, but, but, so the Welsh version of this series... Bud, bud. The Welsh version of this series, thank you, Boyd, aired last September under a title that I 100 % did not want to mangle. So this is why I dropped my friend Gav a line and asked him for the correct pronunciation. So the correct pronunciation of The Light in the Hall Still Waters is... Okay, James, this is how you pronounce the name of that teleprogram. Ergolai Dur. Ergolai Dur. Okay, I'm just going to say now... Now I want to hear you say it, please. Gav's voice is just generally sexy. Ergolai Dur. Okay. It sounds like the black tongue of Mordor.

1:03:13But can I just say, is that you're telling me that the whole lengthy full title, The light in the hall still waters. It goes down to that. A golly door. That can't be. The light in the hall still waters. Yeah, it is. Is that just the light in the hall? Does it include still waters? A golly is the light in the hall, colon, door. No. Yeah. Oh my God. God, the Welsh are fantastic. Aren't they fantastic? They really are. That's three words. Yeah, it's quite short given that the Welsh are famous for incredibly long placements. It's mad. Interesting. But yes, thank you, Gav. Thanks, Gav. That's Gavin Murphy, by the way, of RKG.

1:03:51And if you like FromSoft games, games as a whole, to be honest, I highly recommend their channel because they are legendary. Do you like what games? FromSoft games. What the? Dark Souls, Elden Ring, Bloodborne, all of those. No idea. No? What's a FromSoft? FromSoftware is they're a game publisher, game developer. Oh, right, right, right. They make a very specific type of games. Okay. Yeah. Okay, well, I think Gav's got a very sexy voice. He does. He does. He has a very sexy Welsh voice. Oh, God. Okay. Thanks, Gav. Ergol I dour. Okay, stop it now. Okay, all right. Anyway, anyway, anyway. So Stillwaters marks the debut of the English language version of this.

1:04:27But the question is, was it worth the wait? Steph, tell us in Welsh. Oh, Jesus. Okay. Right. The last time I was in Wales with a drama was when I was very, very happy to be in the company of Kelly Riley and Rafe Spall, the aforementioned, in Undersault Marsh, which... Thank you. And still is, for me, one of the best things I've seen this year. It was this year, wasn't it? It was this year. The best thing I've seen this year. And I think I said at the time, that is the way you do crime drama for me. That is absolutely MVP. Everything about it was brilliant. Storytelling, fantastic. Mystery was wonderful.

1:05:06and what is always essential to any kind of Welsh drama seemingly is some kind of water problem or some kind of water-based issue. You love a leaky bit of water. In Undersault Marsh, you remember it was the flooding. It was the floodwaters and everyone was very upset. And there was like a hurricane practically. People were not moving, okay? In this, there's a reservoir problem and people are not moving. So it seems to be the staple of any kind of Welsh crime drama that has to be a water element. I enjoy that. I didn't watch the original one. The first... Ergolae. Christ, okay. Boyd, I'm just going to look at you for this because it's starting to frighten me.

1:05:48Right. Yeah, I didn't watch the... I apologise to all Welsh people, by the way, for mangling that. I didn't watch the original, but yeah, this is thoroughly enjoyable. I love the whole premise. So she was the detective in the first series, was she? Sure, why not? No, I think she was a smaller role in the first series. Okay, so this is Sian Rees-Williams from Emmerdale. Exactly. Who starred in Emmerdale. She's, I mean, she's absolutely fantastic in this. So she stars as, so she's a, she used to work in a butcher's and she's retraining as a journalist. And at the beginning, you find out, when she's in one of my most hated things, a therapy session, we find out that someone's offering her a job if she can come up with a good story.

1:06:29And that's the whole premise of this. Then a prisoner is released who has been in prison for a murder that he says he did not commit and she wants to investigate that and what happened about that. So that's me telling you about it without giving away any spoilers at all, right? Would you say so? Sure. Yeah, yeah. Okay, James, have you watched this? Yes. You're looking, okay, all right. Okay, right. So I think, and I think I've said this a couple of times before, if Under Salt Marsh hadn't existed this year, I would have probably really liked this. I know, but you know when something, like a Welsh crime drama, which is a mystery that's also got a water element.

1:07:06It's just, it's not undersault marsh, okay? But yeah, I really, I enjoyed it. I'm intrigued about it. I just, I didn't find it as captivating as undersault marsh. And that's what I'm measuring it against. Clearly. You're clearly measuring it against undersault marsh. But I have to because it's so many elements. Which happens to star someone from Yellowstone. Let's not forget. That is not the reason. I mean, well, are you sure? No, because I always, always loved Undersault Marsh. I feel like if this had had, you know, Cole Hauser in it, you'd be 100 % behind it. If it had Cole Hauser in it, I think we'd all be 100 % behind it.

1:07:43Okay. I know what you mean. Undersault Marsh was a big budget, you know, kind of... Yeah, maybe I'm being unfair to it. Because, yeah, it was a Sky Atlantic and it had the sheen. It did have the sheen. Yeah, it was a big... I really liked it as well. and I think it would probably be my do you know The Garden's already doing it's best TV shows of the year so far so we'll have to clarify that oh I've got my list going didn't we not do it last year because we thought we just wouldn't be able to agree I can't remember anyway it would be I've got my list started already I really liked it as well and it was a spectacular it was more spectacle it was more stylish and all of that whereas I think what I like about this is it has got a lot in common with it you're right is that That's the only reason I'm bringing in the comparison.

1:08:30Maybe it is an unfair comparison. There's loads of muddy, watery stuff going on. Yeah, and the vistas and all that kind of, you know. Some beautiful, by the way, Welsh landscapes. But what I like about this is it's different. It's not a simple kind of whodunit. It's quite complicated. You don't really necessarily know what the mystery is. I mean, there was this big explosion, which then Mark Lewis Williams' character was held responsible. but he clearly a lot of people think he wasn't he's been fitted up or he didn't do it I like that it's kind of got a gritty realism to it I think this show it's not trying to be flash or particularly spectacular it's just trying to tell a story with some compelling characters about whom there are you know there are certain elements of mystery and at the centre of it you've got Sean Rhys Williams who I think is brilliant to see someone who's she was a supporting role in the first series of this and she's the connective tissue to this and now she's the lead as she's trying to change her life and do something completely new, become a journalist and investigate this case about him.

1:09:34He spent time in jail for this alleged crime of exploding this mining area. But I really like the fact that she's the lead role because she's great in everything she ever does. She's been in Hidden. She was in Hinterland. He's brilliant. Mark Lewis Jones is brilliant in everything. He's got this real kind of like kind of lived in kind of grizzled old guy quality to him which I think is which I really enjoy he's weathered he's weathered thank you yes he's weathered that's the word for it he's brilliant in everything he was in this thing The Accident I don't know if you remember with Sarah Lancashire and he turned out to be a complete wronger in that and he was very powerful and kind of horrible in that show anyway he's great in everything I think the whole cast is really good like the younger members of the cast who play these kind of activists the whole idea of you know activism complaining about environmental exploitation is dealt with, but with quite a light touch.

1:10:24It doesn't feel like it's like sledgehammer dealing with environmental issues, et cetera. So above and beyond everything, I believed in the characters. I thought they were very well drawn and I thought the dialogue was clever. She has this kind of date, right? Right at the beginning. I hate that scene. Well, because with a kind of dweeby guy who, but I thought he was, I thought that was clever because you expect him to be awful and it was borderline awful but not like offensively so and she just had to ditch him because he was so annoying. But I thought that was an example of a scene I totally believed in that situation.

1:10:58But see, I watched that scene and I thought, God, this is a really unnecessary scene. And I know I suppose it's kind of, you know, the meeting point for the other two. But I don't know. I thought there was some... I found there was... Do you know what else I didn't particularly... It feels like I didn't like this at all. It's not the case. It's just because I'm probably, fairly or not, measuring it against something else which is set in Wales and a crime drama and has lots of things in common with it. but I didn't I didn't think the flashback scenes were well deployed for me yeah I know what you mean flashback scenes weren't my favourite element of it I don't think they didn't overuse them there weren't too many there were just certain things to show you that he's done some stuff and what his memories are they didn't completely take me out of it but in general I totally bought into it and I think it's a pretty good job I think maybe the age of when the crime happened in terms of when the flashback scenes were.

1:11:52When flashback scenes, it's usually when people are much, much younger. But they did take me out of it because it seemed like, oh, there wasn't enough difference in the scene where you could think, oh, this is a completely different time. It just sort of seemed like, oh, there's two other people that something else is happening to. Do you know what I mean? It was supposed to be like a couple of decades earlier. Yeah, it didn't feel like that. Oh, okay. To me. Oh, it did to me. Okay, all right. We'll have to agree to agree with me. I'm not sure I think the flashbacks were ill-deployed. I don't think I was hugely gripped by either the flashbacks or the present-day stuff, if I'm honest.

1:12:29Always be honest, James. Always be honest, is what he says. I struggled a little bit to care. Especially because, you know, your man, who may or may not have been wrongly accused, seems quite indifferent to having the truth come out himself. So it's like, well, if you don't care, I'm not sure whether I should care. Can I give you a reason why I think also you don't care? Why? Because you hate the Welsh. We love the Welsh. That is clearly the reason. I think you don't care very much about the victim in this. So when you find out who the victim is, I think you think, I'm not that bothered about finding out.

1:13:03Like his former best friend? Yeah, I just don't think... He came across as a bit of a bellend. Exactly, so I don't think you care. That's why I think you don't care. It does feel like the stakes could have been a bit higher. Yes. I don't really care about the planned reservoir expansion or whatever it is that they're doing. The essential element to any Welsh crime drama. Indeed, yes. Didn't care about that. The kind of the gross miscarriage of justice felt a little bit, I don't know, I didn't feel that really got its claws into me. So I was, again, wasn't really invested. So at the end of this, I thought, for me to watch more, I need to have cared about the characters, no, or needed to find out what happened, again, no.

1:13:42And I think that's where it left me. For me, I saw it through her eyes, because I cared about her. and she's awakened by this mystery and she's investigating it and she's part of her desire to come up She's got a lot of time on her hands Yes she has but she's part of her desire to change her life and become an investigative journalist and I enjoyed that so I saw it through her I cared about it mainly because she cares about it and I'm rooting for her to solve it I think she completely carries the show and yeah she is the best thing in it but I don't yeah I'm kind of with you James no I'm not kind of I am with you I'm totally with you it's better than ever after yeah years ever after every year after what's it called every year after every year after for people who don't know we did every year after on Pilot Plus and Boyd loved it and cannot wait to find out what the betrayal is that happens every year after teen romance drama that's an example of a show I don't think everyone's tried their best to make it work whereas this I think everyone's trying their best to make it work surely everyone on a TV show tries their best to make it work I love this new idea that you have, that you just want people to try a bit harder.

1:14:49Boyd's giving points for trying now. Or possibly a star rating. It's unclear. You're not telling me, the people who created Butterfly, for example... I think they all wanted it to be a success. Of course, that's different. No, no, no, that's different. And I'm sure they tried their best. Creatively, the artists... You think creatively people have pushed themselves? Yeah, phoning in, I think. Wow. Wow. Sorry. It's been very mean, isn't it? It's harsh. If you worked on the Prime Show, Butterfly, and you feel that you work very hard, we want to hear from you right into the podcast so I can read it out to Boyd.

1:15:17I'll take it back. It's a massive reverse ferret from you. Okay, well, The Light in the Hall Still Waters, or as we know it, Ergolaidur. It's available on, when, Boydy? Channel 4, Tuesday, the 16th of June, 2026, 9pm. 9pm. Fantastic. Now it is time for the main event, because next up we have House of the Dragon. And in case you've been wondering, the Welsh for that is something that I can't remember. But this is the third series of Ryan Condal's Game of Thrones prequel, pitting Targaryen against Targaryen and dragon against dragon. And this season sees it all kick off as we have the Battle of the Gullet to look forward to and all manner of family infighting, except instead of throwing forks across a dinner table, it's basically breathing fire on each other.

1:16:06So let's hear all about it, except we kind of can't because we haven't actually seen it because they haven't made the episodes available in time for the podcast. So we are going to embark upon a little bit of timey-wimey temporal chicanery. We're going to essentially spring into the future now to a day where we have been able to see the episodes and then drop that in here and then teleport back to the present to continue the podcast. Ready? I'm ready. okay we're doing it greetings from the future a future where we have in fact seen house of the dragon future boyd and future stef both of you have seen it as well uh boydy tell us what did you think of this particular dance with dragons well the showrunner ryan condal condal condal is fine yeah describe this episode um which is dominated by the build-up to and the execution of the Battle of the Gullet, which I believe fans of George R.R.

1:17:13Martin, of which I'm not one, have been waiting for for a long time. It's a big moment in the Game of Thrones slash House of the Dragon slash Ice and Fire, whatever mythology. And Ryan Condal said of this episode, it's arguably the craziest episode of television ever made. now Ryan I don't like to burst your bubble and everything Boyd has notes I have notes but more than that I think it says a lot of I'm trying not to be too critical here because obviously the House of Dragons is a huge gargantuan incredible technical achievement as much as anything else and I really like seasons one and two mostly and you know it's a show I really enjoy and like But I do think it says something when the showrunner is so wrong about an episode of his show.

1:18:12It's fine. It's a good episode. It's got lots of dragons. It's got lots of spectacle and fighting and killing and dragons burning entire swathes of communities as we used to. And ships banging into each other and thousands of people dying in front of our very eyes. and this and the other. But that's not what makes a really great TV episode. What makes a really great TV episode is you care about the characters. You want to know what happens next, the tension, the machinations going on or of interest, the drama. And I find these episodes where it's all about CGI dragons

1:19:02and very heavy CGI warfare. A bit underwhelming in the end. It's not why I like House of the Dragon. It wasn't why I like Game of Thrones either. I know there were some incredible battle episodes of Game of Thrones, but I felt they were more innovative and well thought out and more kind of exciting than the ones in House of the Dragon. I think slightly the Ryan Condor might have got carried away with. There are just too many dragons in here for me. I don't want to go all too many corridors again. You've gone full dragon, haven't you? There were so many fucking dragons flying around burning people that you just give up caring after a while.

1:19:40And that's my issue with this first episode. I just didn't really care about what was happening. And it was all too... And whereas, I tell you this, the second episode, which I've watched, we've been sent a few episodes, luckily, is great. Four. Four. Episode two is fantastic. That is a really good episode. and without wanting to be patronising to write console, you know, like I know better than the man show running this gargantuan thing, which is, you know, probably like 100 million per episode or whatever. Actually, your second episode was much better than the one you've been banging on about.

1:20:16So yeah, those are my feelings. First episode, underwhelming for me. Seen it before. Don't need to see all the, you know, nothing particularly. There's moments, there's, you know, surprise deaths and this and that and the other. But episode two, oh my God, it's chock-a-block, full of intrigue, tension, horror, in terms of like, there's a really nasty scene, which I know James won't like. And all sorts of stuff going on, and incredible shocks and surprises. And that is a brilliant episode. So yeah, so I have to, I really like the show. Episode one is a disappointment for me, for those reasons. But episode two, brilliant.

1:20:56Right. Right. Can I just jump in and say, I think you really hit the nail on the head with what you said, because you're brilliant, obviously. But I've had problems with House of the Dragon. You know, like we all know I'm a massive Game of Thrones fan, as I know we all love Game of Thrones. And I think I never, I think I said it before, I found it really hard to get into House of the Dragon. and I think it's for exactly the reasons you're saying is that for me the the great appeal and the absolute brilliance of Game of Thrones was um the character-driven narrative that sat alongside um immersing yourself in these these huge battle scenes and these huge fight scenes and they lived together and and it moved the story on and it kept you interested because when it came to the battle scene she was so invested in who was going to come out alive so here's here's my thing right So, as we know as well, listeners will know, when we reviewed A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, I was all in.

1:21:56I absolutely loved A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It was massively character-driven, the Hedge Knight, right? And it had one incredible battle scene. Now, for me, that episode, and I can't remember the exact episode, you know, that for me, which gave me the full Game of Thrones feels, battlefields, was an example of how you kind of immerse and embed a battle scene in a character-driven narrative and it works because you care so much about everything that's happened so you don't need it you know there's hardly any dialogue in that episode is absolutely beautiful I thought it was a perfect episode right so I've come back to House of Dragon I thought right I really now I feel more invested after even though Night of the Seven Kingdoms I believe I'm correct in saying that it's about 75 years after the finale of House of the Dragons, okay?

1:22:48Thereabouts. Yeah, roughly, I'm sure people will correct me. But it's after. James will correct you. But it's more recent history to the end, right? So I feel, after watching Night of the Seven Kingdoms, much more invested and much more likely now to watch this. I was like, I know, I feel more invested in this now. I'm really going to go back to it and find out. And obviously when we left House of Dragons, the queens were coming together. Alicent was like, yeah, Aegon's got to go. You know, in layman's terms, he's got to go. You were right. You can be queen. Let's sort this out. Okay. And so that's where, and then also I know you don't want too many dragons.

1:23:26We've got a wild dragon that's come in. Okay. So when you, obviously we're not going to give away any spoilers, but it starts with the wild dragon, which for me is because I love a dragon and maybe there wasn't, because there wasn't any dragons because dragons have died out by the time you get to a knight of the seven kingdoms there are no dragons left um I was maybe you know it was a good time for me to be reunited with some dragons but that said I absolutely agree with you it's not quite the spectacle in terms of that it is a spectacle but it's not I didn't feel invested in this in the battle of the gullet at all I was like oh I'm not really and I and I think it's because of exactly what you said there wasn't enough kind of character drama in the lead up to this battle for me considering considering the amount of time since we've since the end of season two i was like oh yeah i'm not and i found myself going right okay what where are the allegiances again who's with who and and it don't and it almost it almost dove too quickly into the battle of the gullet for me um i'm sure everyone will disagree with me apart from boyd but i yeah i agree with you i did enjoy it but it wasn't what was promised that said as well i haven't watched these i haven't watched episode two so i'm really looking forward to watching episode two it's also an hour and seven minutes this first episode to allow for the gullet the gullet battle but there is i don't is this a spoiler there is the scene where they're they're going through the kind of narrow part with with the ships and that is incredibly labored i think that whole kind of dodging the rocks thing.

1:24:57Do you know what I mean? So I don't know whether it's just that there were certain things that I think they spent too much time on. And obviously there's, you know, like you said, there's like countless deaths. And then you, there's so many in a way that you do sort of start to not care about that. Yeah, it's a numbing thing, I think. Yeah, but having said that, I guarantee James is, could you feel James is just waiting to? No, but I did really like it. I did really like it. I think fans of the show, I'm sure most fans of the show will lap it up and will love it. It's a slightly, yeah, it's a slightly peculiar feeling about it on my behalf and just that you agree to some extent.

1:25:33But yeah. I do agree with you. I do agree with you. I totally agree with you. Let's see what James thinks. Well, it's funny because what's dead in there was kind of lay out, broadly speaking, like the plot strokes at the end of the season two finale. And one of the things I was going to ask you guys is, do you remember what happened at the end of season two? Because I think one of the things about this show is it's been a while since the last episode. the finale of the previous season was summer 2024. So we've had two years to wait. It's an incredibly dense political show. Without having read the Wikipedia summaries or re-watched the series, I think you're going to be like, who are you and what is this?

1:26:09And what is happening? Yes, and fans are going to be like that. Even huge fans are going to be like that, I think. And so I think, you know, the best piece of advice I would give anyone is if you can re-watch, like do a run-up and watch seasons one and two before you go into three, that's the best way to do this or just watch the last episode of season two I mean you could do that but I feel like you'll still lose a lot because a lot of the plot stuff isn't just in that episode or read the Wikipedia summaries obviously if you're being lazy but I do think you need to do that because when Game of Thrones battle sequences work really well it's when they have traditionally been the penultimate episode in a series or the midpoint in a series for all the reasons you say because you have all of that character work leading up to the battle so it's not about dragons and CGI it's all character and you're so fucking invested in the outcome that all the emotion is there so i get what what ryan condor was doing here was like well let's start strong let's do the biggest altercation the biggest battle we've ever done and let's stick it right up front to remind people why this series is great but in doing that you lose the character leading into it so i definitely think you are both right it it saps the episode of its of its heart a little bit you've got all the spectacle but you don't care as much as you should unless unless you watch the last few episodes of the previous season first in which case this doesn't feel like a season premiere it feels like almost like a finale because the last one literally ended with alicent leaving dragonstone you know and a little montage at the end and if you do that then this feels massive because you've had these two women who were friends and then they were enemies together and then alicent made this incredible sacrifice she's prepared to sacrifice her son to give the throne back to rhaenyra knowing that she was wrong knowing that rhaenyra should have the throne and that's a massive thing to do and then to go from that into this battle i think it works brilliantly but it's the cold start that's the problem to that point right so when you first see allison coming back and she's challenged on where she's been and you've it's lost that the the momentum so it's not you kind of feel like she's not in jeopardy but but like you're totally right if you watch the last episode you're like no she's in really serious yeah she's just And when she's asked, where have you been?

1:28:21And we all know that, yeah, she is plotting against her own flesh and blood. Right. And you think, oh, God. But if you're coming to this sort of cold, as you say, after two years, you're like, I'm not really bothered. You know, it doesn't it doesn't feel that there's any it doesn't feel you don't feel concerned for her. Do you get what I mean? Completely. Completely. And I think that, I think on the one hand, it might have been a slight misstep to go straight into the Battle of the Gullet. I think we needed a powerful character-driven episode as episode one. So maybe episode two becomes episode one, you know what I mean?

1:28:54And then you go straight into the battle, having refreshed your connections to all these characters. having watched the end of the previous season and gone into this i didn't feel disappointed by it and i was very invested in it and it is i was watching this episode thinking i can't imagine what this cost it must have been so expensive because you've got as you said dragons ships rocks the sea all this stuff it is basically the whole episode and i think the beats of the battle are really well done and the thing that always impresses me about game of thrones is the effects work is fucking flawless like at no point do i think oh a bit of led volume there oh that's some dodgy compositing like i have yeah you're using bullshit about this is me i have no notes on the effects at all none no notes like i thought it looked incredible and and there's that i mean it does it feels so lavish the show does it feels so expensive but weirdly you're right boydie like my favorite episodes of this are very often people in stone rooms getting cross with each other like That's kind of what I come to from the show.

1:29:52So I love these battle sequences, but I do think it's nice when they're deployed judiciously. So I want my characters. I want the wranglings and all of the political machinations. And I was talking to someone the other day about House of the Dragon and why they didn't like it. And I think the one complaint that does stick is that it's somewhat one note. And I think we've talked about it in this podcast before. Because Game of Thrones has a massive cast, a huge ensemble of characters, and they are in different places. They are different types of character. The tonality of the different characters is vastly different.

1:30:25There's lots of humour in it as well. It's got something for everyone. Whereas this is all politics, Thrones, dragons. Like that's the whole show. And I love that. That's what I'm here for. And that's fine. But I understand why it doesn't have the broad appeal that Game of Thrones does as well. I, yeah, I totally, totally agree with you. I think some people, when people ask me like why, who have never watched Game of Thrones, why is Game of Thrones good? And why did I like Game of Thrones so much? I always say you should watch Game of Thrones because it's not just fucking, it's not just dragons.

1:31:00There are very few dragons. Yeah, it's not anything. You know, it's not like that. It's such an, it's an incredible story. And like you say, the Game of Thrones has the broad appeal because, you know, yeah, you can be in Westeros, you can be in King's Landing, you can be, and that's what makes that special. And it is the character work that makes that special. And that's why people who maybe wouldn't particularly enjoy House of the Dragon would love Game of Thrones. And I always want to say to people, give Game of Thrones a chance if you haven't, because you will fucking love it. It's absolutely brilliant.

1:31:30But I can see there's people, me, I count myself as one of them, who I'm like a real purist, Game of Thrones purist, in House of the Dragon. I feel like I could leave it and not be bothered. And I know that sounds harsh. You lost me now. but yeah I just feel a bit like no I will continue to watch it I loved it but I really enjoyed I thought Night of the Seven Kingdoms I really really enjoyed that for the reasons that I love Game of Thrones and I know lots of people's complaints about Night of the Seven Kingdoms there wasn't enough battle scenes there wasn't it was too character driven I mean but that is what the hedge knight is about and that brought me back to a lot of the things I loved about Game of Thrones but this I think it is not without its problems for people who love Game of the love game of the thrones it's because it's house of the dragons game of the thrones it's not without issue and i can see people being divided but you know would you say that's fair no i i totally get why not everyone you know loves this show i will say uh that whenever i watch a new series of house of the dragon it reminds me why this is almost always my favorite show on television when it's like i absolutely adore this world i love the mythology the visuals the texture the fact that i have no cgi complaints is i find it so immersive and so absorbing uh and i do love the characters and i do love that it's very plotty and political um and i do like lots of people in stone rooms yelling at each other about politics you know that's and occasionally i like dragon sinking ships you know that it does have everything but you've got to have the patience to sit with it but But I guess my advice is, as I said, if you are going to go into this, don't try not to go into it cold.

1:33:11Do try, and if you can, and we should say, this isn't even out this week. It's literally not out until the Monday after this week. So we've pulled this one forward because the embargo's lifted. So you do have time. I think it's going to go out on Sky in the 2 a.m. Sunday night. On a sort of Sunday night, so it just falls into our week. But genuinely, you've got time. If you can re-watch it, or do a massive re-watch of one and two, or just refresh yourself. Yeah, normal people aren't going to do that. They may not. At the very least, watch the season two finale. I watched the season two finale and that was enough.

1:33:45And even then though, but I still think, I think you're right. They should have had an opening episode just reminding us of the situations, reminding us of the stakes and then episode two should have been the battle. That's exactly it. It doesn't feel like the stakes are high even though they are so high they are so high Alison is in mortal danger right but it doesn't feel like the stakes are high in this episode I think in terms of the tone of it I think I think it is I don't think it's humour less I do think there's like Matt Smith alone like Matt Smith's performance is very like is really funny you know when he he's got a smile he's got a grin on his face for a large he's a cheeky rogue he's a cheeky rogue exactly and you know who I really like actually is you know Lord Laris Strong played by Matthew oh yeah the foot fetishist yes yeah the foot fetishist and he's really funny he is really funny and the two he's now got like a double act with what's his name the Aegon the king so he's the one at the end of season two who's he's helping him you know because obviously Aegon's sort of nearly mortally wounded but yeah their double act is great and he's really funny I think so there are moments of humour in it But yeah, it's more relentless.

1:35:05I really, I would love it. So it's not my favourite show on TV. But yeah, I, you know, I'm very excited to see what happens next. Have you watched the second episode? Have you watched all four? I've watched all four. Of course you have. Of course you did. I got up early this morning and devoured all of them. Yeah. I'm having a great old time. What time did you get up? Let's not talk about that. Yeah. I had to watch the World Cup last night, so I couldn't watch. Yeah. See, I didn't care about the football, so. I got up at six and watched the episode. But God, Jesus, that was the first episode. Oh my God.

1:35:31Yeah, and they're all very long as well. Yeah. Are they all as long as that? No, no. There's another one that's over an hour, and then the other... They're always around the hour mark. Okay. Episode two's over an hour. But in episode two, there's a lot going on. There is a lot happening. I mean, genuinely, it's quite interesting, because we can't go into the plot reasons why. No. But the three that follow that first one are very dialogue and character-driven. Okay. Well, good news. Yeah. I'm happy about that. and there are some interesting developments is all I'm going to say but yeah I love this show I love it to bits and you know we have this argument in the Empire Office where Nick the Assembly will go to the mat for Lord of the Rings and Rings of the Lord and say it's the best fantasy show on TV ladies and gentlemen this is the best fantasy show on TV oh I mean I'm sorry but Nick is wrong in this one it's a big bottle of wrong it's much better this is much better than Lord of the Rings Rings of the Lord 100 % House of the Dragon then which airs on is it Midnight Sunday slash Monday morning?

1:36:302am. 2am. So Monday morning. Yeah. And you can watch it on Sky Atlantic. And HBO Max. And HBO Max. Weirdly. It's on both platforms. On both platforms. Now, before we return to the present, we bring news from the future as well, don't we, Boydie? It's not just a review. We came for House of the Dragon, and while we were in the future, we found news that the new season of Slow Horses has a date. It will be arriving on Apple TV on the 16th of September, and I for one am psyched very exciting yeah and they put a couple of pictures one with Lenny Rush is in it now he's the big new cast member I think and it's the adaptation of two novels smushed together smushed out of that the main thing is September 16 feels like we haven't got long to wait even though it's sooner than bloody rivals right rivals you have to wait I know I'm banging on about it, but it's two months ahead of Rivals.

1:37:29So what a big treat we have in store there. Yeah, it's very, very exciting indeed. I was also, there's more news that was exciting. Sorry to, yeah. The announcement of The Shards is arriving in August on Disney+. And The Shards is Ryan Murphy's adaptation of the Brett Easton Ellis novel of the same name, which is one of my favourite books of the last decade. and it's an incredible book which features 80s pop culture all over the place perverse sexuality a serial killer a potential serial killer and a character and basically Bratis D 'Aless is in the novel because it's about his life growing up and becoming a writer when he was like 18 yeah so I can't wait for that that's coming in I think 6th of August so yeah there was good news post news from the future I would say you mentioned it was two novels it is so series six of slow horses adapting the novels joe country and slough house and then series seven which has been greenlit is adapted and presumably they've already shot because that tends to be the case is adapting mith heron's book bad actors okay that is enough from the future we return now to the present

1:38:46Okay, we're back. We're back in the present. Wow. That was exciting. That was me getting back into my chair. Yes, Steph has returned to the present. So that's good. We found out all about House of the Dragon. I wonder what we thought of it in the future. I would have thought you would have gone to the premiere on Monday. I would have thought you would have gone to the premiere on Monday. Ah, I had another screening. You had another screening? Oh, you went to Disclosure Day. Well, some of us went to the premiere of Disclosure Day. I just went to see Sinatra the Musical instead of... Oh, which you enjoyed.

1:39:11Yes, with my mum for her 85th birthday. Thank you very much. Okay, fine. Yeah. All right, well, I'm going to guess our pick of the week was House of the Dragon. I feel quite certain it would have been the House of the Dragon. Do you think? It feels likely, I'm saying. Did I just call it the House of the Dragon? The House of the Dragon. The House of the Dragon. There's enough words without adding more words. We haven't done What Else Is On yet, by the way. No, we haven't. I think this will be a very short segment. but feel free no well there's quite a lot of stuff on I Will Find You which is the new Harlan Coburn adaptation which is American I thought you were saying there's quite a lot of stuff on not I Will Find You well I will I will find you yeah Harlan Coburn's I Will Find You is a rare American adaptation of one of his books yes this is new it's on Netflix from Thursday the 18th of June 2025 Sugar season 2 Steph may or may not be the only person who watched all of season one.

1:40:07I know, but Kay is going to be back next week and I don't know if she's watched Sugar. She definitely doesn't watch Sugar because the second that the twist that I will not reveal at this precise moment was revealed, she would have stopped watching. Sugar is one of the great... Big words, big words. Sugar is a great show and SciCryShow, CryFiShow, whatever you want to call it, it's unreal. Colin Farrell, amazing. Isn't that a spoiler in itself? Anyway, it kind of is. Sugar's back on Apple TV Friday, 19th of June, 2026. there is a comedy returning comedy Fun Boys which is not one of James's I think we reviewed series one of this do you remember Northern Irish trio of lads being stupid oh I think I hated it it is quite good fun I think I distested it Steve Coogan pops up in a guest role very funny guest role in the new series oh we should have done that BBC Three Friday I did mention it on the feed on the WhatsApp group yeah I was I was all for it I think I was all for it and also dissed by James on the WhatsApp group not considered worthy enough is Rosa Eletrica which is an Italian crime thriller starting on Sky Atlantic and now on Tuesday 16th of June 9 o 'clock could have done that if it was Welsh language I'd have been up for it yeah of course if it had someone from bloody saying the Dutton Ranch then you would have done it look no Dutton Ranch dissing okay no Dutton Ranch dissing I think that is about it yes I think if the agency is back for season two speaking on Sunday yes that's on Sunday that's true and I may or may not have started watching that we could do that next week there we go perhaps did you watch season one of The Agency no but Kay watches The Agency so that's good maybe I'll just come in just to do the sugar bit because if nobody else has watched it fine I just your terms are acceptable injection of sugar yeah nice right okay brilliant so our pick of the week is House of the Dragon I mean we haven't seen it yet it could be a disaster it might be awful it might be terrible let's be honest the trailer looks immense it's not going to be it's going to be I feel it's going to be better than the reservoir based crime drama I think she's right bold words bold words okay that is it for this week's show we do hope you enjoyed it if you did please leave us a very positive review and say only nice things on the YouTube comments section you know who you are

1:42:27we'll be back in your ears next week when we will cover one of the many things that were embargoed this week there's not a lot new on next week but we will be able to cover some of the... I mean, ironically, House of the Dragon is technically on next week and not this week. So, you know, we've pulled that forward. Honestly, time has no meaning anymore in this podcast. It's absolute carnage. Not that we realise we can time travel. No, that's true, which we did this week. So that was exciting. I'm off to polish up on my Welsh. So, in the meantime... Good. Gwélghy diviáj, peilot más.