It: Welcome To Derry, Trigger Point, and Art Detectives. With guest Stephen Merchant

29:37It's done. But, you know, you don't know your zombies. That's your problem. Yeah. Anyway, Walking Dead Dower Dixon, which you can watch now on Skymax. And this is Stephen Merchant talking to me. Good morning, Stephen. Welcome to the Pilot TV Podcast. Where are you dialing in from today? From some temporary accommodation. Very nice. Yeah, I'm doing some renovations in our house. So yeah, we're just in someone else's place at the moment. But you're over here in the UK as opposed to over across the pond? In the UK, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. Very nice. And obviously it's nice to be in the UK, given that you played the last Englishman in England from Madrid, which is obviously a different way of doing it.

30:11Yeah, I don't know if that's a spoiler or not, but they sent me the script for this Daryl Dixon Walking Dead show. and like you say first thing i read it's all in london i'm like bingo i'm in london got a place here and they said we're shooting it all in madrid i was like okay but i don't know i've been in this business a while now and i've been on sets small and large and there is something still very thrilling when you see a quite anonymous street transformed with the aid of some london an old london bus and a black cab and a red letter box red phone box into a london street and yet you're in sort of um in sweltering kind of summer madrid heat it's just it's still exciting to me it's still a thrill i mean i've noticed a trend i don't know if you've seen this where we brits do not do well in the zombie apocalypse like ever i don't i mean you've seen 28 years later right you've seen like the danny boy films like it's pretty tough isn't it we're fucked right and it feels like this is a consistent theme i wonder why that is does anyone do well in a zombie apocalypse though i mean generally they're fairly bad news aren't they i mean i'm trying to think of an example where it was just kind of easy going for people they embraced they embraced the zombie bite uh i think i would probably be one of those people that would just give up quite quickly you know what i mean that's your survival plan i've often thought that about if i was in the old west like i just think it just looks too much hard work it does yeah you know and I just think, oh, what, you've got to build your own house on the prairie and you're fending off wild animals and, you know, I just, no, just give in.

31:50So you'd never get past episode one of Deadwood is what you're saying? Oh, goodness me. No, no, no, I'd be done for. I'd be gunned down in the streets for being lily-livered immediately. Or I just wouldn't be able to get a decent glasses prescription. Oh, yes. You know what I mean? That would be a great anxiety to me. Lose your glasses and you're done. You only survived in the Old West or in medieval times if your eyesight was 20. Yes. Otherwise, you were done for, weren't you? 100%. I always wonder that. Like, if you're being sent to prison or something, right? Like, do you think, shit, I've got to go out and get LASIK before they sentence me?

32:22Because if I'm in prison and I can't see, I'm fucked. Oh, 100%. Well, you know, my approach, if I'm ever in prison, is I'm going to try and get the nickname The Professor. So I'm going to wear the glasses all the time, and I'm going to be the guy that's, like, helping the inmates write letters to their loved ones. Yeah. You know, because in my mind, they don't write very well. You know what I mean? Or I'm helping them study. I work in the library. And hopefully they'll just let me keep myself to myself. You're the Andy Dufresne, aren't you? You're essentially taking the Shawshank route. Without any attempt to escape.

32:54No posters on the wall whatsoever. None. You were saying that the Brits don't do well in the zombie apocalypse. Andrew Lincoln, obviously, had done quite well. He did it for over a decade. Yes, but he did have an American accent. He did, and I think that was the key. And a big gun, which of course we Brits don't traditionally have. So, you know. But what I really love about this is that the Englishness of it feels quite authentic. And I always think Americans don't do Englishisms generally very well. But like your introduction in the show, you know, cycling helmet, everything about it, a particularly, I would say, inventive contortion of Cockney slang, all of that just I thought was wonderful.

33:29Was all of this in the script when you got there, or did you give it a bit of a polish? well um they i thought they had done i thought what was one of the reasons i was excited to do it was that i had never really followed the original mothership series closely i was a sort of fairweather fan and um and then for whatever reason i just started watching daryl dixon when it came on i just i liked it because if you haven't seen it you know uh daryl is a sort of man with no name although he's called daryl the kind of figure who's wandering across sort of zombie apocalypse france and and then carol shows up carol and darren i like that it's rhymes that that's helpful and and so anyway so that so i was very kind of charred by it because it didn't feel like you had to see all the other series to understand what was going on i was just sort of in and and so what i liked about this one was firstly that it was the first time we had seen the walking dead universe in london or in england yeah and that was exciting just to see just the thought of a sort of post zombie apocalypse london and inevitably you're going to see the um the tourist sites aren't you're going to see big ben and the and tower bridge or london bridge and so you're not tower bridge you're not going to see just like a random you know pizza express you're going to see the hallmarks although they should have um so i was kind of excited just and also when they said he was the last man in england i was like oh this is really fun because i think if you're thinking of zombie apocalypses i'm not the face you're picturing as the one person that would have survived um and so that was very exciting to me and then uh they seem to be quite thoughtful about the englishness of it they they like you say they had they gave me what dr martin's to wear and like you say the bicycle helmet and then like you said they had a kind of cockney rhyming slang bit which i which admittedly in the original draft didn't quite make sense there wasn't really any rhyming just complete slang and so they did let me rewrite that bit and so i tried to use real rhyming slang yeah and kind of link it all together um but it's not quite how you'd use rhyming slang but i think you know it's close enough it's a little more authentic than it would have been yeah yeah but other than that they were um i thought they did a nice job and you know Now, there's moments where you kind of were sailing down the Thames under Tower Bridge, and all of that was shot in basically a glorified swimming pool just outside Madrid.

35:51We didn't once go to London. It's kind of extraordinary. Yeah, I mean, that is wild. But it's also, I mean, genuinely, that is wild about the rhyming slang. I always think, like, no one who hasn't at one point lived in London can understand what rhyming slang is. And I always think, remember in World War II, where the Americans used wind talkers, they spoke in Navajo because they were like, the Nazis can never break this code. I was like, how were we not getting Pearly Kings out there? And they were doing all our comms over the radio. Because we'd have won the war in a heartbeat just 10 years sooner.

36:17Is it still being used? You don't hear it often. Not a lot. I've been in London for 20 odd years. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, oh, my plates of meat are killing me. I mean, it's true. Although, I will say, I was in Hampstead a few years ago, and two Pearly Kings walked into a pub. It sounds like the beginning of the joke. It's not one. and I've never in my life seen actual in the wild Pearly Kings before. It was extraordinary. I saw a couple of Pearly Kings in East London recently and I was similarly like you. It was like seeing a couple of you know leopards or something. It was so unusual and delightful.

36:51Yeah in their natural habitat. Yeah. The Walking Dead isn't known for its like lols essentially. It's not a laugh a minute generally but Julian the character you play is genuinely very funny but he's also kind of tragic and he has a sad backstory and there's a little bit of darkness there to him and I just obviously it's not quite like four lives level you know but but i wonder you know from your perspective like is it nice to do that to very thing because you've played dramatic roles you've played a lot more comedy roles like how do you choose those things do you think i fancy one of these or is it entirely on a case-by-case character-by-character basis well the first dramatic role i had although again it had a little bit of humor was in uh the wolverine theme wolverine film logan oh yeah yeah um and that was a challenge but also exciting and something different and like you said i did a real life serial killer and so i've increasingly tried to seek out some more dramatic roles and although like you say there's a sort of note of humor in this character again the thing that appealed to me was that he's the last man standing he's a lonely figure who has gone just slightly potty because he's the only englishman left and he's sort of he's there's a lot of pathos i think to the character and i think what's interesting about those long running shows like walking dead or their spinoffs, is that the main characters are very set and they can radically change.

38:08They can't keep giving them huge dramatic arcs every episode. So it's sort of the job of the guest star, as it were, to bring a little bit more of the emotional story or the character arc of that particular episode. And so I thought there was a nice kind of shape to Julian's story. And so, like you say, it was exactly that that appealed to me, to keep trying to kind of exercise those dramatic muscles so that one day I can do my leer. of course it'd be the toast of london or the toast of croydon to quote uh trevor slattery uh but does it like because comedy must be to a certain extent almost like natural to you like breathing like you're a funny guy you're just naturally funny like does like if you take the comedy out of a role if you're doing a role you know that is purely dramatic does that scare you a little bit because you don't have that that thing you've always had that crutch to lean on i think to some degree yes and i think what comedy has is there's a there's an outcome you're trying to get to right you're trying to get a laugh and so however authentically you try and play it you have one eye on what's what's the funny with drama you don't have that objective and so the only thing you can burrow into is the sort of truth of it and and so for instance when i did four lives where i was playing this guy stephen port who is a real life killer there's no way of knowing what makes his brain tick.

39:24I wasn't going to meet him. And I mean, genuinely, I think that might have even been an opportunity. And I was just like, no, I don't want to give him the benefit of thinking that somehow he's so fascinating that I want to actually hang out with him. Particularly as I'd heard that he rather arrogantly decided that he wanted, who was it he wanted? I think he said, I want Eddie Redmayne to play him. Yeah, all right, mate, well, you've got Merchant. But the thing was, there was long scenes that were on the stand, as it were, giving evidence and you just think to yourself does he know he's lying or is he is he trying to deceive the jury or has he convinced himself that what he's saying is true and you have to sort of write your own logic to sort of make sense of it and so it becomes for somebody who began as a writer it becomes a sort of writerly exercise yeah and so it's a different it's a sort of way of writing in a different form that i find really nutritious and interesting and and challenging I guess because everyone is the hero of their own story right so the villain I guess always has to in his mind or her mind be the hero of that narrative that's right and I don't know how I mean again who knows but I don't know how you live with yourself if you have killed people so maybe you you convince yourself it didn't go down the way it really did or I don't know I just don't know so you have to sort of create that logic for yourself yeah as an actor yeah it's wild yeah I definitely wouldn't have met him either that would have been extremely creepy um but I know the thing completely changed the subject uh recently obviously the times did a list i think was earlier this year where they were talking about the best british tv shows of the 21st century and you contributed to this list and you stumped up full state of play the glorious state of play yes is that your favorite show british show of this century well it's the one that sprang to mind and um i mean it's you know it's hard to say anything is your favorite isn't it it's it's a bit absurd to sort of rank things in that way but i was trying to think of one that has really stuck with me um since i first saw it i have actually re-watched it not so long ago um and it stood up very well and it's not what you perhaps expect from me because it's uh more of a sort of uh conspiracy thriller than a than a comedy um and i've always been a fan of that kind of genre you know the sort of the newspaper got the sort of dogged newspaper journalist trying to uncover some kind of you know conspiracy and um and so that one i think it's i think i just think it's very well written i think yeah paul abbott did a great job it's got an excellent cast it's got a i remember bill nye he sort of i think around the time he was kind of coming to the fore with love actually or coming into people's consciousness and it was sort of another kind of starring role for him or sort of great you know um supporting role and it just it just it's just very very good and um uh spawned a sort of middling movie version yeah um but solid tv and i but again i mean to to to try i mean what are you talking about like 20 years 20 over 25 years it's pretty absurd to try and pull anything out it's a good shout though like i'd i'd be i'd find it hard pressed to beat like and certainly it's a limited series i reckon it's the best like limited series i've seen it's incredible yeah i agree it's really good yeah fantastic stuff now no spoilers for the list but the number one was the office uh you know and richard curtis went to the mat for that and said lovely things about it and obviously has you know the office has been one of the most influential comedy so it's completely changed the topography of the sitcom landscape like every sitcom since then i feel yeah exactly right like does that freak you out a little bit you know i completely changed the nature of comedy thank you very much good night uh well i i think i mean it's very nice of you to say that i think it took to us it's sort of we we watch we watch it and see the influences that it that we that fed into it for us you know so although it's it seems to have been very influential and i'm very proud of that i can see the elements that we've drawn from other films and tv shows that were an influence on us and so um and so it's harder to think that you know you sort of you went into it kind of you know trying to create something new because it was its own it had its own we were standing on the shoulder of the giants they say so um but the fact that it sort of has had a longevity and it's spawned these remakes and and there's now a spin-off of the american version the paper so i now have we have an office cinematic universe which I'm very proud of which is kind of thrilling but yeah I mean you can't go you don't go into anything expecting it to have that level of longevity or reach but it's pleasing that it has but it also feels like it stretches out and I know this isn't like The Office didn't didn't pioneer cringe comedy right but it definitely made it if you will mainstream and I feel like even like something like Succession I feel has a lot of that in it like you look at like Jeremy Strong's character like he's got so much Brent in him it's not even funny well yes you true although of course you know jesse was one of the brains behind the the um the peep show yeah which came out was sort of around the same time as the office and that itself didn't mind kind of taking its characters into some excruciating places and so maybe there was it was just in the air at that time maybe there'd been a lot of sort of cozier comedy and it was a reaction to that although i think in our case it wasn't that we were sort of trying to make people feel uncomfortable it was just we wanted to just make it feel authentic yeah and we wanted to just sit in the discomfort because that seemed funny to us but i think it's a little bit like i imagine to go back to a zombie film like if you're making a zombie show you could just keep throwing in more blood and more gruesomeness because you're on set you know it's all fake yeah and as a viewer you're like this is horrific and i think sometimes for us we made scenes agonizing because it was tickling us because we were really dead and for the viewer you're like this is too much guys please so it's funny so i have like really acute friend shimon i believe the germans call it like vicarious embarrassment like cringe like i almost just want to die inside i know everyone does that a bit that's why they enjoy it but i almost can't watch it like curb your enthusiasm someone sat me in front of that for like an hour i might literally expire you know if you always had like a really high tolerance for that because i mean you grew up on you know john cleese and like faulty towers which i grew up on as well to be fair has a lot of that in it but i guess it's it's maybe balanced out by the slapstick well i think though if you took away the audience laughter from something like faulty towns or from del boy yeah it would be as agonizing if it was just have you ever seen where they'll take like a friend's clip yeah and they'll have ross in a scene and they'll remove the laughs oh god he just seems like a creep and a weirdo and i think that's true of a lot of comedy is that actually if the audience laughter uh studio audience laughter was what sort of softened it softened the edges but actually what the characters are doing i mean if you think about del boy falling through the hatch he's trying to impress some women imagine if someone actually fell through a hatch while trying it would just be agonizing it would just and you'd be worried is he injured you know i mean um so i think i think it's just maybe that we just leaned into what is already there in british comedy which is this love of discomfort and the um and people and humiliations and kind of and there for there but for the grace of god go i um i think you know i'd never thought of that but you're absolutely right i think i think the absence of the laugh track was i think one of the first things you felt in the office right and it makes it excruciating yes yes well actually when we first the editor did the first pass of the first episode and actually cut it more like a traditional sitcom and ricky and i watched it on a friday night we were like oh god this is we haven't done this is not working and we got a little bit and we just got we got a little bit drunk and so i went in with the editor and i said no let's let's cut it like a documentary not like a sitcom let's leave in the awkward silence and just make it and that's when it started to come alive but um but like you say there's definitely some people i think probably my mother is probably one of the same person i remember when she watched the first episode she clearly didn't enjoy it but she came out of the room and she said um well i can tell it was very well written which is sort of damning with faint praise yeah yeah that's incredible i mean talking of like laughter you're i mean you're doing stand up again at the moment am i right in saying like you're preparing for a show yes yes like obviously that gives you that immediacy doesn't it gives you the instant the audience i know it's funny because they're literally fucking laughing like do you or not or not and then presumably that's even more awkward yeah yeah but like is is there i mean in terms of like the sort of comedic high is there nothing quite like stand up for you well i haven't done it for many years so clearly it's not something that i'm addicted to yeah um but i was doing my show outlaws we did three series of that and although i enjoyed doing that and it had a great cast and great crew it was it was hard work because some of it we shot during covid with all the kind of health and safety regulations and it was quite a sort of ambitious show and it had lots of characters in it and and i was wearing a lot of hats and and so after i finished it i was like oh i just i can't go back straight into another big tv or film project and so there was something about stand-up though it's just you on stage on your own and you can kind of have an idea in the afternoon and try it out in the evening and that was sort of the pleasure of going back to it so it's more the creative process of of making it work is what i enjoy because in the end everything i do it's it's it's the work that's enjoyable it's lovely talking to you and it's nice going to a bafta's or or going on graham norton but those are not why you do it the work is what's fun and challenging and and with stand-up it's it's hard and it's times excruciating, but it's very rewarding.

48:52Like you say, when something works or a piece clicks in, you're like, oh, okay, now we're onto something. And from an audience point of view, where are the toughest crowds here or in the US? Well, I think the only thing that's what makes it harder in the US is that, although I spent a lot of time there, there are still a lot of cultural reference points and nuances and touchstones that you just never quite know unless you are American. Like, I think we're so inundated with American TV and film, we think we understand the country, I think, perhaps better than we do. And there are just these little idiosyncrasies that I still find myself struggling to pick up on.

49:33And so it's still probably easier to work up the act here. But American audiences are still lovely and very giving and a lot more inclined to give you a standing ovation. Yeah, they're much more enthusiastic and overt. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, speaking of American stars, just very briefly, I remember watching season six, episode one of 24, back in the days, and seeing you come in and very convincingly handle a document, which was incredible work. Now, Ricky obviously did an extended scene for that, which does not make the final cut. Yours did make the final cut. Was this a bone of contention?

50:07I don't think it was a bone of contention, but that was one of the things, when we first had success with The Office and we went to the States for various award shows, was just amazed and dazzled by how many people had seen it and were fans of it which was one of the reasons why we were able to do extras and invite guest stars on but also like you say we sort of run into the guy that was running 24 and we said we were a fan he was like well come down to the set so you get into the set and you're just there as a set visit to have a picture with ctu and they're like we'll throw on this tie and be in be a worker in ctu and so yeah sure why not so so yeah i'm at ctu handing somebody a floppy disk or whatever it was yeah amazing it's a it's still one of the thrills of what I do is just those most unusual moments where you just you just turn up somewhere unexpected as I am in this uh in this zombie show yeah and I think it is the incongruity of it that makes it so much fun exactly exactly yeah yeah yeah but it's funny a lot of people have stumbled across that 24 episode because I mean it's so briefly for no reason that it's just what it's brilliant with no explanation you're just there never seen again Yeah.

51:13Fantastic. Well, Stephen, it has been phenomenal to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thanks, mate. That was Stephen Merchant. Time now for this week's news. Who would like to kick us off? Oh, it's going to be Kay. Yes. And she seems angry. No, I'm not angry. It's big news. Right, it's big news as of 23rd of October, Thursday, when we're recording this. The big news is, Strictly Related James, Oh my God. Tess Daly and Claudia Winkleman are stepping down as the hosts after 21 years. I was shocked when this news broke. Me too. Do you know how I found out? Not by an official source.

51:49It was the Ribeiro Green family WhatsApp group. Oh, wow. Yeah, it really kicked off. It's like, oh my God. And then I watched the video of them announcing it. And yeah, so I'm completely, I was gobbled-smacked when I saw the video because obviously they're such a staple of the show, which I love, as you know. And obviously they both bring something different to the show. But for me, Claudia is the show, right? She is just like, she brings so much warmth and humour. She's fantastic. Such a safe pair of hands. And it's such a large part of the Strictly experience. So, yeah, I can't believe that they're going.

52:21Well, you can imagine the shockwaves that went through the heat office when it was announced. Oh, hello. People were really... Surely the cover's being changed. Of course it's being changed. All going on. Yeah, it's a huge moment in popular culture, James, which is why James is already doing his emails. I'm like, listen, the thing is, as a viewer, like I was really shocked and I'm gutted but just you know I think it's brilliant for them oh it makes total sense 21 years they've been doing it and Claudia is very very good I think she said in her thing her statement or whatever you have to quit while you're still having a really good time at the top of your game and also like she's got the juggernaut there's traitors she's got so many Claudia and her juggernaut yeah and she's got a lot on the piano but I think it's very empowering that they've done it and yeah good for them very good so who who are you going to have replacing them oh god that's the thing it's going to be really I don't know I'm going to have to think about it I'll have a little thought and then I'll email the BBC but yeah it's does it have to be two ladies again doesn't have to be but yeah I don't know who do you replace I'll do it oh please I mean you've got the sense of humour of Brucey so maybe the late great Brucey actually that's a Disabrusy okay that's a Disabrusy so I'm going to say Anton DuBec you are like Anton DuBec I don't know who that is oh my god yes James is such a James DuBec James DuBec Tony Beak as his real name is I sense I am being mocked but I cannot tell how affectionately okay yeah who do you well my guess is I'm going to guess that Ryland will be very high on that list I would have thought because I think he'd be perfect for the Claudia role particularly oh my god and he used to do It Takes Two didn't he or I might have made it up no I think It Takes Two I mean everyone's done It Takes Two but as for the main presenter it's a tough one I mean the obvious choice is Holly Willoughby but I don't know if Holly she's too aligned with ITV I think I think it'd be a weird choice she's on BBC stuff I know but I think she's so dancing on ice which was you know well but you know but I bet you know that would be that would be a big coup if they did get her if she did agree to do it.

54:40But yeah, I don't know. Beyond that, I don't know. Alison Hammond, of course. I love Hammo. Yeah. So, yeah, it's exciting times. Or do they, I mean, I'm just checking, do they bring on the big guns? Angela Rippon. Angela Rippon. Rippon and Ryland, I'm just saying, could be a winning combo. Trust of all, Rippon and Ryland sounds like a great comedy double act. Yeah, or a detective drama. Also, how are we still talking about Strictly? Because it's the biggest news of the day, James. Yeah, you're right. It is definitely the biggest news of the week and not in any way that David Chase, the creator of Sopranos, is making a new TV show at HBO.

55:18His first TV show since The Sopranos held by many to be the greatest TV show ever made. Yeah, that's... What the hell has he been doing in that time? He made a weird prequel film. The Many Saints of New York, directed by Alan Taylor. Indeed. But yeah, I saw this news. so we should say this is called Project MK Ultra and it is based on a non-fiction book called Project Mind Control Sidney Gottlieb the CIA and the tragedy of MK Ultra by John Lyle and anyway this is a dramatic thriller centres on and this is the official release on the infamous chemist and spymaster Sidney Gottlieb also known as the Black Sorcerer frankly they had me at Black Sorcerer but it turns out it's not about magic who headed the CIA's MK Ultra psychedelic programme which conducted dangerous and deadly mind-control experiments on willing and unwilling subjects during the height of the Cold War.

56:10So Gottlieb is also known as the unwitting godfather of the entire LSD counterculture. So yeah, a dark chapter in the CIA's past. It does make me think what has he been doing. Sorry, I keep saying what has he been doing. But yeah, I mean, it's brilliant news that he is, you know, he's a genius of TV drama. He changed the face of... Very much so, yeah. ...of prestige, television, and just anything that the news is working on something anything is very exciting, yeah. And it's kind of because it definitely doesn't scratch the same itch as The Sopranos but The Sopranos are very high concepts like he's a mob boss and he's in therapy like that's quite the elevator pitch, isn't it?

56:49But this is a little bit knotty maybe not be what people I think no one knew what The Sopranos would be until we saw what he did with it. Yeah. The fact that this guy is a chemist and spymaster is a good combination. So I think it's very interesting. I wonder who of course the casting is key very much so Tony Soprano was key legendary no it's thrilling yeah even more thrilling than The Chase wouldn't you say let's not go too far no it'd be good to get David Chase on The Chase that'd be good let's do that so prior to the Strictly news my biggest news was that Shrinking Series 3 the date has been announced yes which is the 28th of January next year cannot wait in the calendar counting down the days.

57:34But actually, it wasn't the biggest news. I know you love that show, but the show that is going to bring us all together in this fraught studio is season two of Hijack has been announced. That's much more exciting. No, it's not more exciting. It's exciting. Oh, come on. I think it's more. And they've announced, so the date, January 14, you know what that means? January's a big month for us. January's a big month. But also, I feel that means that any day now, episodes of Hijack are going to arrive in our Apple TV accounts. I mean, it's quite a way off still. They go a way off. They do sometimes, but they also sometimes...

58:12You got the morning show about a year before it was coming. Well, you know, some of us are special, Woody. I'm telling you now, if you get this fucking show, if you get screens of this before I do... Wow, you're so hot on watching Hijack. Yeah. I loved Hijack. No, I did as well, but... It's one of the peak gourmet burgers of our time. I think that's the expression. It was coined because of Hijack, right? It's all about hijack. But also the premise. I didn't know the premise. It's Big Driss in it. Of course Big Driss is in it, you idiot. We know what I'm saying. But the reason I ask is because it's called hijack.

58:39It's presumably there needs to be another hijack. Why can't the same guy get hijacked again? It's on a train. It's on a premise. Thank you, yes. In a thrilling second season, a Berlin underground train and its commuters are taken hostage while authorities scramble to save hundreds of lives. In comes Sam Nelson, Idris Elba, to be at the heart of the crisis on board where one wrong decision could spell disaster. It's a train set. He has the worst luck with public transport. But, you know, second only to my love of plane set. Yeah, it's train set for us. Yeah, it's true. I even like the Joe Cole.

59:12In fact, I hosted the screening for the Joe Cole. Of course you did. One. Oh, I did not enjoy that. I forget, but. That's the one. That was the one where I got them Cosmo Jarvis. That was that. It was that show. So, you know. Yeah, it's Night Sleeper. Night Sleeper. Yeah, Night Sleep, which was a really fun train set thriller as well. Yeah, so that is exciting. Excitement, to use the word... The other thing is... How often do we just say that is exciting? I'm excited. It's so exciting. The excitement is real. Yeah. Now, that is exciting. I enjoyed Hijack enormously. And you know, there's one other announcement this week that's up there in the top, I would say, three announcements is the Harlan Coburn's Runaway.

59:52We were talking about... We reviewed Lazarus, Harlan Coburn's Lazarus, on Pilot Plus this week. views differ. But I think the excitement is that the next Netflix show, which will be a smash hit, that is set for January the 1st. January is such a great month. 2026. And the most exciting, they put out pictures of the cast. And I'm very excited to see Ruth Jones in this role. And the pictures of her with various other cast members are really exciting to see. And I just think the cast is such, James Nesbitt, her and James Nesbitt, Minnie Driver's in it. Alfred Enoch John Poynting from Bad Boys Big Boys Bad Boys and Big Boys being very different but yes Tracey-Ann Oberman it's got even by the standards of the cast of these shows Harlan Coburn TV shows this is a brilliant cast so yeah very exciting you have to say very exciting at the end of every news it's very exciting it's so exciting no but genuinely this is very exciting news but also can we have a moment to say that Boyd talked about a show that's going to be airing in the first week of January without any kind of loaded comment Don't bring it up, James.

1:01:00about how we should be recording a show between Christmas and New Year. Well, it's a given. It's an absolute given. I mentioned it on Pilot Plus, that's why. You did. We've got an informal agreement that if Boyd takes James and I out for a slap-up, and it has to be slap-up. At the Ivy. At the Ivy, at Christmas lunch. Then we will consider doing a record. There you go. Can't say fairer than that. What a ludicrous arrangement that is. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, we'll see. Any other news? In the news? No, that's my news. We have no more news. To be fair, it has been quite a light news week, I think. I'm sure...

1:01:36I don't know, I think those stories are all... I was going to say, I'm still reeling from Strictly and Shrinkly. I was thinking it was a volume, but yes, there were some big stories. Can I tell you, squeeze one more in, which is that, I thought it was funny that, and is it coincidence or not, that the two stars announced this week to join HBO's legal thriller, War, which has already cast Sienna Miller, and Dominic West. Have you seen this, Kay? No. Particularly on point looking at you, Kay. Joshua Jackson. No. It's interesting because it's got Celia Imri, the farting legend of Traitors, Celebrity Traitors.

1:02:08I understood that reference. Thank you. And Nick Muhammad. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Wow. So, the two of the shining lights of Celebrity Traitors are both being cast, announced this week, as cast in this big HBO Sky swanky show. So, who knows if that's coincidence or not. But it's weird, isn't it? Even more exciting. for now because you wouldn't necessarily expect Imri and Muhammad to be together in the show but they are they're fucking what a duo I don't know why I'm swearing all of a sudden they bloody well will be there we go told you it was worth it the only other thing and I can't I don't even know why I'm bringing this up because I actually don't want to say it because a lot has been made of a certain character having departed the morning show in the most recent episode don't spoil it obviously I knew months ago when I saw it but I can't really say who it is because that's a spoiler but someone has departed the morning show that's great non-news Yeah, there you go.

1:02:56A person I won't name has departed this show you may or may not have seen in an episode I'm not going to tell you about. So, there you go. Even by your standards, that is ridiculous. That's quality news. And on that note, let's move on to the review section. That's called Trevor McDonald. Woodward and Bernstein, that's me. Right, first up this week, we have It. Welcome to Derry on Sky. Now, this is a TV prequel to Andy Muschietti's 2017 and 2019 films, It Part 1, It Part 2, which were themselves obviously the adaptation of Stephen King's iconic 1986 novel now for the uninitiated the book sees a group of children in Derry, Maine being terrorised by this sort of supernatural force which occasionally presents itself as a malevolent clown called Pennywise played by Bill Skarsgård this series also developed and directed by Andy Muschietti along with Barbara Muschietti and Jason Fuchs is set back in the 60s as a prequel and this deals with Pennywise's kind of previous phase terrorizing Derry's youth.

1:03:56Just to confuse matters, the book It is set in the 1950s, but the two films are set in the late 80s and 2016 respectively. So even though this takes place after the books, chronologically, it is a prequel to the story from the films. Clear? Oh, God. Excellent. Exhausted. There you go. It for you. Boydie. Boydie, tell us about Five Children and It. Well, okay, I'll try. there's also this thing apart from Pennywise the Clown who isn't in the first episode which is all I've watched after well Bill Skarsgård is in the first episode yeah okay because but this freaky little thing is yes which is in the opening scene the opening scene is this absolutely demented sequence Kay we should say so we should say Kay didn't have access to the screeners no but if she had had access yeah she would 100 % have switched off after that first scene exactly I think it's a blessing.

1:04:58The first scene is quite an extraordinary set piece. I've used to it extraordinarily, I'll say apologies. It is extraordinary. It is extraordinary. And exciting. In what way? It is exciting. This little kid who's kind of like, yeah, is kind of like seemingly an orphan and he's on his own. He's got big panda eyes and it's really, sorry for me, he hitchhikes and this car stops with his family. I'm getting Mark Bonner vibes. Which vibes? Mark Bonner, sad eye vibes. Yeah, maybe. With his family, seemingly, you know, lovely family mother father three kids are in there in this car and they pick him up and he wants to go anywhere apart from Derry which is where obviously he comes from where the whole thing's set this fictional town of Derry and they say they're going to somewhere else but they end up going back to Derry and it becomes increasingly fucking freaky and insane and bloody and quite graphic and involving little kids no thank you I'm out it's quite a lot it's a bold opening It's a very bold opening.

1:05:58Again, it goes along with my theory, you have to make a splash with your opening scene, even it, the spin-off. Even if the splash is made in blood. Exactly. It doesn't ease you in to the story in any way. It's like full-on, insane opening sequence. But I have to say, on the plus side, all of the kids in the show are brilliant. I thought the acting from all of the, and there are a lot of kids in this show, of varying ages, but they're often like pre-teen, you know, kind of little kids, or at least they're playing pre-teen little kids, and they're all kind of brilliant. Because sometimes, you know, child actors can really, I don't know, they can make you, they can take you out of it if they're not really, really good.

1:06:34It's a real skill, I think, directing and making sure. But there seems just... An example of that, Owen Cooper, fantastic. Yeah, exactly, yeah. But these are like groups of kids together. So you meet them at high school, there's two girls who are kind of friends, one of whom has visions of things happening in a bathroom. I want to say two more. Oh, yeah, there's a lot of kids in Jeopardy in this show. and kids being attacked. Which, to be fair, is the whole premise of it. Yes, indeed. Stephen King, you know, is, I would say, mildly obsessed with teenagers, kids being under attack, you know, and, you know, the kind of children having no, the innocence of childhood being ruined by evil forces, shall we say.

1:07:17Escapes TV, then. Right from his very first book, Carrie, of course, his very first book, Carrie, you know, about a teenage girl with telekinesis. Anyway, there are some, there's another set piece kind of fighting that I didn't think was very good I thought it was a bit unfortunate you know the one I mean later in the episode is this involving a cinema? no well the cinema's okay but then there's the adult fighting scene later on that didn't work for me in fact the whole strand there's different strands so you've got this weird opening which is insane and quite distressing and horrible that you would have turned off immediately for then it settles down introducing you to cross cutting between like three or four different sets of characters.

1:07:56A Jewish family where the dad is quite horrible and the little kid is kind of like very intense, smart little guy who's got theories of what's going on in the world. There's these two teenage girls, as I mentioned, and then there's like military people. There's a military guy, a black military guy who has to do with racism as soon as he arrives in the town and there's weird things going on at the base where he's stationed. All his stuff, I didn't I wasn't interested in at all. I just didn't think it was very interesting. Well, it feels like it adjacent, doesn't it? Whereas I think it will come around to it.

1:08:31I think, because bearing in mind that the book is essentially split into two halves. You've got the sort of the group, the losers club as kids facing off against Pennywise. Then there is a break and then they return as adults to kind of deal with Pennywise again. Whereas what this does, instead of having, it blends those two concepts together in one timeline. So you have adults and children all kind of contesting with this malevolent force. Yes, well, I've seen both of the It films. I haven't read the book. Do you remember the TV show? Did you watch the TV show with Tim Curry? Which is genuinely brilliant, even if it hasn't aged fabulously.

1:09:02Indeed. Tim Curry, so good. Yeah, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. And, yeah, I really like that version. But I have never read the novel, and I have read both. I did see both films. The first one was really good. The second one was not, basically. We gave the second film five stars. Oh, yeah, famously. Isn't that Alex? It was Alex, yes. Yeah, Alex. We never start giving him shit about it. It's still good. It's still good. It's just not a pattern. It's fine. But the problem is, it's one of these unfortunate things where in the book, the first half is significantly better than the second half. But for me, this is a sprawling, multifaceted, densely layered thing that is a bit too much.

1:09:40There's too much to take in if you're not fully appraised of the history of the films and the film. I think like... That first scene is brilliant. Don't get me wrong. and I fully expected by the way in the end of the opening scene and thank God they didn't do this that it would be all a dream by the little kid who's hitchhiking oh that would be annoying oh I knew it wasn't a dream yeah but I didn't I thought this is so absolutely ludicrous and over the top and every word you can think of I thought it's Bounty he's going to wake up in any minute but no no no no it's the madness of it is all too real within this context but anyway to cut a long opinion short I couldn't get fully on board with it I think it had some really good moments in the opening etc it's had some quite you did this the other day it has had mixed reviews it's had a lot of really scathing reviews some really scathing reviews others quite good reviews but I know what the scathing ones are saying why should we care about the origins it's one of those things where prequels have this inherent issue for me where they really have to work hard to make you care about people you know in the end what happens to them and yet to justify their existence Yeah, just funny.

1:10:48And I think this almost does. And it's got a lot of stuff we've seen before. Once you see kids at school with their lockers and they're being bullied and all that, I'm like, do I really need to see another show about this stuff? And it's very Stranger Things. It comes across as, and I thought this while I was watching it, I hadn't read any reviews when I watched this at all. But I'm seeing that halfway through, I'm thinking, would this even be made without Stranger Things? It feels such like Stephen King meets Stranger Things. and obviously the irony is that Stranger Things is massively famous by Stephen King and 70s films like Carrie and 80s films and it let's be honest exactly so it's all kind of populate itself to some extent but just the tone of it and the cross cutting and the number of characters and all of that it just really reminded me of Stranger Things and in the end I thought it's not as good as Stranger Things even though it's worse it's not as good as the worst Stranger Things I didn't think this series was as good as that how many of them have you seen?

1:11:42two yeah same I like it I definitely think it's doing a lot of heavy lifting early on trying to because it's a lot of characters there are a lot of moving parts and I had a sense that it lacked a little bit of focus that it's like there are a number of storylines kind of competing for the spotlight and it felt like they weren't quite sure which one they wanted to focus on so they ended up kind of giving paying lip service to all of them so I think it maybe could have done with a little more focus I think the performances are great in particular as you said the child performances are fantastic and that's I think where it lives and dies with it.

1:12:15It's terrorizing these kids. I think there's a girl who's lost her father. There's a couple of boys who've kind of lost a friend, but is he a friend? And then, of course, there's the whole, almost like gaslighting thing, where the adults never believe them. But this shit is genuinely happening, but no one ever listens to them. Ever. It's annoying. Yeah, which is maddening. But I do think it's good. And, you know, Bill Skarsgård being in this, I think is a big plus for it, because Pennywise is the heart of this story. the only thing about this and it's not really a criticism of them I guess beyond the decision to make it is the reason why the second half of it the book and the reason why the second film isn't as good is first of all like the adult side of things is inherently not as interesting as the children because they don't you know they're not being believed and also it plays into their primal fears in a way that it doesn't really work so well with the adults but also once you know what Pennywise is once you know once you understand once the curtain has been pulled back and you understand what's going on, it's not scary anymore.

1:13:15And that is a problem when you watch it already knowing what it is. Now, this whole series has that problem that we know what Pennywise is. We know how Pennywise ends. So, to an extent, it defangs this for me. It's like, don't get me wrong, the imagery, and it's quite scary as the way it's put together, but it's not creepy in the same way that if you go in cold to IT Chapter 1, it scares the shit out of you because you've no idea what's going on. and you're in exactly the same boat as the kids. Like, it's really, really unnerving because it's this force that kind of almost shapeshifts and plays on their primal fears.

1:13:49You're not sure what it is, who it is. Is there one? What's going on? What does it want? What does it need? And then, of course, by this point, we know all of that because it's thoroughly demystified in the films. So I think that does rob this of some of its power, unfortunately. Definitely, yeah. But I did like it. I thought it was well done. I think you should remember, the scene in the cinema is really good with the film. Yeah. which is very similar to a Doctor Who episode. Of course it is. But it's right, so it's effective use of scary imagery and the grammar of scary cinema. So it's frightening in isolation, but taken as a larger narrative, it doesn't have that real kind of like, you know, prickles on the back of your neck feeling.

1:14:26It's just kind of visceral scares. And worst of all for me, it didn't have that. By the end of episode two, I didn't feel desperate to carry on watching like that at all. So that's the main issue really. Yeah. As good as the set pieces are, and there's some really good moments, There's some, you know, yeah, but I didn't feel the urgent need to carry on. The other thing is, and I do think it has always been at its best, when it's suggestive rather than explicit. And I think, you know, just seeing the clown in a storm drain or just seeing a balloon, and there was moments like in the IT TV show where you just see Tim Curry waving from behind a sheet on a washing line.

1:15:02Really frightening. Whereas sometimes I think, you know, having overt scary imagery here as you're talking about the cinema scene. It's scary, but it's not creepy. And I think this works better when it's creepy as opposed to just, you know, giving you scares. But look, I liked it. You know, I'm inclined to watch more of it. Well, they'll be very relieved. They will be relieved, yes. But yeah, it may be, again, it's one of these things where this is well made, but the question is, should it have been made? I think that's probably my question. Wow. It, Welcome to Derry, which airs on On a sky. A sky.

1:15:41Sky Atlantic. Atlantic. I'm pretty sure. And now. Feels like Sky Atlantic. Monday, today, Sky Atlantic indeed. And now, from today, Monday at nine o 'clock. This is it. Literally. Yeah. Right. Next up, we have Art Detectives on You and Drama, which stars you and Stephen Moyer as a detective. And he's in the heritage. Or is it Stephen Moyer? Is it Stephen Moyer? That's a Pilot Plus gag for you there. he is a detective in the heritage crime unit who essentially investigate the theft of antiquities and objet d 'art and Nina Singh of course plays the constable who's assigned to assist him but to quote Stephen Moyer's character in the first episode of the show facts are good but interpretation is more important to that end Kay, please tell us is this art or is it arse?

1:16:30I wouldn't call it arse but I would say it is maybe not the highest calibre of detective drama I would say he is great Stephen Moyer Moyer Moyer is great sorry don't confuse me anyways God blame us for you listeners we should explain that in a recent episode Stephen Moyer came up didn't he he's in something else what's he in? he's in loads of stuff at the moment actually I can't remember what we were viewing I was listing the cast and said Steve and Moyer, as in Alison Moyer. They're not related and it's Moyer. I know. And then Boyd has been ribbing me on the WhatsApp group. Anyway, so yeah, he is great in this, I think.

1:17:15He's the best thing about it. Because other than that, it's very by the numbers, cosy drama. And I would say that some of the dialogue and the performances are subpar. So that's my takeaway. I think UK TV has plenty of great detective dramas on there. but this one doesn't particularly stand out for me. I don't know how you guys felt about it. Boydy. That's quite minimal for a review. Wow. No, because I don't want to give it like, yeah. No. I understand where Kay is coming from. Oh, yeah, I mean, you know. I will say someone gets twatted in the face with a hammer quite early doors and that's quite arresting.

1:17:55And they still call it cozy crime. The cozy hammer smashed into someone's head. Cozy hammer, it's hammer time. Yeah. I mean, it is cozy though, isn't it? Oh, no, I know. I'm pointing out, I've always thought the nom de... That phrase, it just doesn't make any sense because all these supposedly cosy shows, Midsummer Murders, they all begin with violent death. They do, yeah. Unless they're really... Unless they're doing like a... I don't know, someone's disappearing or something. This is quite extraordinary because Stephen Boyer, it is essentially him mansplaining art to Nina Singh for a significant runtime of this episode.

1:18:28But the way he's... Well, if you look at the framing, it's all wonky. It's like, okay, this is an interesting thing. He's committed to it. He is committed to it. And he's got, you know, the quirk of his is like that he literally smells stuff. He sniffs out the crime. Yeah. So that's his USP. He sniffs the art. Yes. Which is mildly amusing. I enjoy the banter between the two of them though. I thought that was quite fun. Yeah. I thought they riffed off each other quite well. But... Yeah, they kind of, the whole of the first, not the whole of the first episode, the episode has its own mystery, which is, you know, kind of ludicrous.

1:19:00Yeah, there's a death of an art historian that he's investigating. Although I would say, right, I sat there thinking, this is absolutely preposterous, particularly when the solution arrives, you know, oh my God. But, you know, there's been a heist at the Louvre this week, right? That makes this show and Frauds, which is the ITV caper with Saran Jones, etc., which is all about the theft of a painting from the most famous museum in Madrid. And then you get, you know, other things. I'm now thinking... Oh, Lupin. Lupin. I was thinking of Lupin as soon as I heard I was like when it all happened I was about to tweet pompously tweet you know this is like the new series of Lupin this can't be real but of course then a million other people got there before I did I was furious but it's so Lupin it's insane but it happened it absolutely happened talk about you know I didn't realise heritage crime was a thing and then we're seeing it playing out yeah talk about fact being worse than fiction so I was thinking now I feel like everything is plausible in this world of heist shows.

1:20:01So actually the solution of this show turns out to be, oh, that's fine, it probably could happen, yeah. But yeah, it's kind of has its own story, which is quite good fun, and then is set up for setting up the fact that the two of them, Nina Singh and Stephen Moyer, are going to be a kind of fun double act, which I can see. Which they are. It's a completely harmless frothy thing, isn't it? It's super slight. But I think there is some skill involved, I think one can acknowledge, in setting up a show that basically establishes a crime, a very specific art-based crime, which this character can, as he says, is the only one, he's the only one doing this fucking job in the whole world, practically, let alone this country.

1:20:48They manage to set up this character, give him a crime to solve, and solve it in about 45 minutes, maximum. There is a skill to that. There is a skill to that. and there's a market for it there's an audience for it as well so yeah what's weird is so this is on Ewan Drama right from from Thursday the 30th and it's on it's on Acorn TV I was going to say Acorn Antiques it's on Acorn Antiques it's on Acorn TV in America it started in back in June and Larry Lamb's in it from Gavin Stacey etc and it's it doesn't like it doesn't I'm not saying it's lavishly produced but it doesn't look particularly cheap either it's fine it's like The whole thing is fine.

1:21:26Well, the art gallery they're in is quite well-appointed. Yeah, exactly. And so it's kind of like, it's the kind of thing where Americans would lap up a kind of, it's a very British feel to it, with appeal, you know, almost Downton meets art heists kind of thing, you know. I'm pushing it, I know. I mean, yeah, that's... But you know how, Downton's like the ultimate show that was huge in America because they love quaint British people doing stuff. Yes, I get what you mean. There is an element to that. And this has got British people doing stuff with art and mysteries and stuff. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there are so many drama series out there.

1:22:00It's extraordinary that this show almost exists. But I think it is quite kind of, I don't know, cute and fun as you're watching it. Can we spare a thought for the Poirot-esque final reveal with the amount of showmanship? Ha-ha! Well, this is what happened! Because it's got a great... What we didn't mention is the guy he's battling against in jurisdiction issues, which you know I love jurisdiction issues. And this is a great one. Where this guy is unfathomably horrible. Yeah. He's weirdly hostile. So hostile. For no reason. Gives you a quiet life. You can't let somebody else solve the fucking crime.

1:22:36What do you care? He's horrible. And he's completely pompous about him having jurisdiction over it rather than the investigator guy. So that was... He was the most entertaining character. Entertaining slash despicable character in the whole thing. So, you know, it was... It's fine. It's not terrible, is it? No, no, no. I've seen worse. Yeah. We've seen worse. So if, for example, you lose access to every other channel, then by all means, watch Art Detectives. Yeah. Which airs on you and drama, Wemboidy? Thursday, the 30th of October, eight o 'clock, and it will all be on the U streaming service, of course, which we know and love.

1:23:18Now quite the gear change for the next show, isn't it? Right. Finally this week, we do have the third series of ITV's Trigger Point, which once again stars Vicky McClure as bomb technician Lana Wash, Washington, who, with her team, obviously spends their days dealing with things that go boom. And in this series, her little team of expos have to deal with a serial bomber with a passion for vigilante justice. Boydie, you're a man with a passion for vigilante justice, aren't you? Oh, except, you know, I am in the pocket of big... Are you? You're in the pocket of big Trigger Point. I'm literally hosting the screening tonight.

1:23:49Right, Boydie's been triggered. Boydie's been triggered by this review. we have to move over Kay you're not being paid by anyone are you? No Good No no no no Yes as you say Vicky McClure's back as Lana now I have to tell you I didn't watch I watched a little bit of the first I think I watched the first episode of the first series Really? Yes A lot happens in that I know and I haven't continued since but not just time wise right but I don't think it's almost necessary I picked up very easily with this and the point of it is that Vicky McClure is excellent as Lana as this explosive officer who who has obviously gone through a lot.

1:24:24She's very traumatized, but she's someone who just like, she's keeping the lid on it, but you know it's going to go off at any time. And she instantly, her team are called out to deal with a taxi that has been stolen and abandoned in a field. And there is a bomb inside, but not only a bomb, a passenger. Now, presumably he hasn't paid the bill. Why is he kept locked in? But he is locked in and he's left with an ominous note that says, Confess or Die. It is high octane. It is tense. Super tense. I mean, it's like relentlessly tense as all the other episodes have been. And it's just brilliant. It's very entertaining, but it is so, I mean, I don't know, you find it very stuff tense as well, James.

1:25:08I don't know how you coped with it. Oh, yeah, I'm a big fan. I loved it, but I also was like, oh my God, please, just relieve the tension. Well, it's the nature of it, isn't it? Like anything where things can literally explode. Yes. It has just built in tension to it. but I watched all of series one and series two of this I really like Trigger Point I think it's a lot of fun I also think it goes into it joins Happy Valley in the annals of glumphing police officers with equipment yeah because Vicky has so much clobber on her in the same way that Sarah Lancashire used to it yeah exactly it's just like she's glumphing around in these great big bomb suits but yeah it's a really it's a really fun show like it occasionally sort of betrays its roots sometimes.

1:25:51I found this in season two definitely, that sometimes it does get a little bit silly, but it is fun. What do you mean betray its roots? What does that mean? There is a silliness to it sometimes. There is definitely a silliness to it. But I think you go with it. I think it's just a lot of fun. I think there's a bit of silliness to all these shows. Do you know what I mean? Let's be generalised. To all shows on TV. No, no, no, but the high-octane ones, like Hostage, for example. Well, I mean, Line of Duty has silliness. Anything that's very heightened, there's often an element of... I think this is very, you know, it's no coincidence that this is Jed MacGurio's company, production company, that makes this show.

1:26:28And he has a big, I know he has a big involvement in terms of, you know, he's not the showrunner, but he definitely gives, he gets a lot of feedback, shall we say. And even, you know, in terms of coming up with ideas and, you know, and he is, of course, the master at treading the line of what you're talking about, of incredible realism and fidelity to the way these things work. Like, you know, I'm sure there is a bomb disposal expert on set at all times, making sure that every single moment rings true and is authentic. But at the same time, there's this serial bomber character who is the big adversary in this series, for example, played by Jason Fleming, who we only see in the first couple of episodes, hovering around mysteriously.

1:27:07And even that, I thought, you know, it's a little bit cheesy. But I agree with you that Line of Duty did that, that he's the master of that where it's completely realistic and yet at the same time plot stuff happens that is borderline just treading that line brilliantly. It's somewhat preposterous but you go with it. And I think it does it, I think it treads that line off so well. I think in classic Mercurio style even though he did not write this, etc. Will he be there tonight? I don't know. He's not on the panel. Okay. But he'd probably be there, I imagine. He's very busy putting the finishing touches maybe, I don't know, to Line of Duty season eight.

1:27:46I won't be asking him about that I can guarantee you so but yeah it's definitely his influence is there but I really like I love it as well and I think partly because they do a really good job of coming up with because it could be incredibly repetitive right you know we're now three seasons of a show about diffusing bombs you know 18 hours so far that is of this whole thing but they do it really well they come up with and you know the fact that each series has an overarching storyline line and each one kind of outdoes it's constantly doing itself really in terms of giving us the premise of each series being different to the last and the opening episode I think this is a classic example of the opening episode of series 2 you remember James where there's that bomb in that disused car park and the guy steps on it and if he steps off he's going to be blown to smithereens they did that brilliantly that one sequence went on for about 30-40 minutes and it was a fantastic set piece season one But somehow in this one, with the whole cab thing idea, and the passenger and Jason Fleming hovering around being mysterious, it manages to be as exciting and thrilling and intense as those previous series openers.

1:28:57So I just think they do a really good job. It's a massive hit. This is their biggest show, their biggest returning show now, drama series. Is it? I didn't know that. I think it was second only to Mr. Thingy. Mr. Bates? Mr. Bates. Mr. Thingy. Mr Bates versus in terms of pure ratings it was like second only to that for ITV drama that year so yeah it's huge good fact yeah but it's also fun in that Walsh Vicky McClure's character is an absolute maverick from the gang go and it's just like it's a lot of fun we love a loose cannon and they investigate her I think you mentioned that by the way I meant to mention that earlier that she's going through tough times all the stresses and strains of her job are reflected in her she's self-medicating she's got you know and all of that I think is very also, you know, very Mercurio-esque.

1:29:45They do it with quite a light touch, but it's important to know what she's going through and they don't. Soft soap, the impact of what is the hardest jobs in the world, the effect it has on those people. I dread to think about her cortisol levels. Oh, I know, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, you'd know all about stress endured, working with two fuckwits on this podcast. Indeed. But they do that really well. So, yeah, that strand of it. And that strand of it is more prominent in this series than before, I'd say. looking forward to watching the rest of it yeah me too okay trigger point then ITV when Boydie it started yesterday Sunday carries on tonight Monday at 9 o 'clock and it's on Sunday Monday for the next couple of weeks magnificent what else is on this week well there is the final episode of Brassic which I know Kay is a big fan of yep I'm excited for that that's Thursday the 30th of October 10 o 'clock 2025 Sky Max and now Down Cemetery Road that would have been let's face it we wouldn't have done Art Detectives what are you saying I'm just being honest I'm just drawing back the veil poor Stephen Moyet really Stephen Moyet we did Stephen Moyet's show because Down Sempty Road which is the hugely exciting Mick Herron Apple TV Mick Herron Ruth Wilson Ruth Wilson Emma Thompson Dame Emma Thompson my close personal friend all coming together ET so we will be doing that yeah we'll do that on Violet Plus yeah what else there Well.

1:31:12Oh yeah, that's a thing called The Fucking Witcher. Yes. It's not called The Fucking Witcher. It's not called The Fucking Witcher. It's just called The Witcher. Season four of The Witcher, which is also embargoed. I'll have a chat about that on Plus as well. That's Thursday. Yeah, I'm in the pocket of Big Witcher though, so just do bear that in mind. You've been in the pocket of The Witcher from the very start. You love that stuff. Yes. I am, however, hosting the premiere tonight. Oh, there you go. Oh, yeah. Literally. Yeah. You two both hosting tonight. Yes. Which one will people go to? Well, that's the question.

1:31:39Should we compare pictures of audience sizes? yeah oh look at you two you two are unbelievable if you can find a way of having a swing in competition oh dear there's a Canadian comedy on ITVX from Saturday called Small Achievable Goals which looks quite good which is about two women dealing with the menopause and doing a podcast about it which covers all the bases and stuff very hot button things happening let's hope their mic technique is better than the girls on that's why I mainly mention you can check their mic technique and there's Robin Hood on Sunday on MGM Plus, which is, guess what that's about?

1:32:16It's a new version. It's a new, trendy, youthy version of the Robin Hood Legend. Oh, God. This is the way of telling that it's kind of youth-oriented, I think. I haven't watched it myself. God, I'm having horror nightmares with Dick Turpin. They call him Rob. Oh, no. Absolutely not. Oh, Robbie Hood. Robbie H. Absolutely not. No, hold on. It's got Sean Bean in it. Sean Bean's a chef of Nottingham. Oh, Seen Bean. Yes, now you're changing. Colleen Nielsen out of Gladiator. She's Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine. It's quite a starry cast, you know. Okay. Let's not be close-minded. And depending on embargoes, you may end up reviewing it, so you've got to be careful.

1:32:52Okay, yes, and that is it. So, with that in mind, what is our pick of the week? Art Detectives. No, it's Trigger Point for me. It's not, though, is it? It's the Trigger Point. It is Trigger Point. Sorry, it. Welcome to Derry. That's a big flex from you. That's right. Okie dokie, that is it for this podcast for this week. Please do leave us a five-star rating on whatever platform you so choose and also follow us on the social medias at K.Robero, at Boyd Hilton, at PilotTVPod, at James C. Dyer. Next week, what have we got next week? Let's have a look on the calendar and see if anyone's updated it.

1:33:29I think we know the answer to this. Yeah, I think we do. I love LA on Sky Comedy, Sight Unseen on Paramount+. All's Fair comes to Disney Plus next week. The aforementioned Kim Kardashian show. All her fault. Yep, Sky Showcase. Sky Atlantic, with the Sarah Snook. Is it Sky Atlantic or Sky Showcase? I had Sky Showcase down. Oh, you know, Sky Showcase is a melange of... Why do I even ask? ...of big stuff on the different show. The fact that it's on show, it will be on show, so Sky Showcase anyway, but it's the actual... I think we need someone from Sky to come in and explain all these bastard channels.

1:34:02Let's do it. You get it wrong every week. We need some kind of key. Can you provide us with some kind of comprehensive document explaining why and where anything appears on any channel. Explain it all, please. Web Diagram would be great. We'd really appreciate that. Maxton Hall comes to Prime, but perhaps more exciting than any of that, Pluribus. The new Vince Gilligan show comes to Apple. Now, that's almost certainly a bargain. It is certainly a bargain, yeah. So, we'll probably be covering that on Pilot Plus, but, yeah, that's very exciting. It is officially very exciting. Officially very exciting.

1:34:30Right. Okay, that is our stand. Now, Kate has a big decision ahead of her. Is she going to go to Boyd's event tonight? or is she going to go to my event tonight? Okay. I've decided. That's the question. It's The Witcher, isn't it? You want The Witcher. As a big fan, you want The Witcher. It's sofa and Shetland time. Sorry, guys. You're on your own. That's the best option. Wow. Yeah. Harsh. Pilot out.