Marshals, Young Sherlock, and DTF St Louis. with guests Kaley Cuoco and Sam Claflin

5:06Kaley Cuoco:But she feigned.

5:08Steph:I think she did remember you, Boyd, okay? So you should feel good about that.

5:12Sam Claflin:Yes, maybe. Right. Well, we know what Boyd has been watching this week. And it's Jennifer Garner. Steph, who have you been smelling this week?

5:20Steph:Okay, so, right. Okay, strap in because I've got a lot of things to talk about because obviously I had two weeks. You did. Now, if you are having any kind of surgery, what I would say is if you could align it with some kind of Olympics, that would be great because I watched a shit ton of the Winter Olympics, okay? Now, one thing I would say is don't watch the Olympics and then also take a lot of painkillers because what starts to happen is you start to believe that you could definitely do all those events. So I was like, I could fucking slide down a huge icy slide. How is that? I could get a gold.

5:56Steph:I could get Olympic gold. Have you seen this skeleton?

6:00Kaley Cuoco:Dive down an icy dive. I don't know what that is.

6:02Steph:An icy slide. They basically get on a platform and they just go down a slide. And then I thought, I could be a free skier. It's fine. Obviously, I can't. But that was great.

6:11Kaley Cuoco:Have you been, have you, have you a skier? Do you go, I can imagine you're going skiing with, with Leanne B. George, your husband.

6:16Steph:Well, I am from Luton. Do you think that I go skiing?

6:19Kaley Cuoco:People from Luton are allowed to go skiing. What are you talking about?

6:22Steph:They're allowed, but they don't.

6:23Sam Claflin:Isn't there like a big snow dome in Milton Keynes? Milton Keynes, yeah, the snow dome.

6:27Steph:No, I don't. I haven't. I'm not a skier. I try to avoid all kind of physical activity. I bet your husband does it, doesn't he? He doesn't ski. He doesn't ski. Snowboard? No, he doesn't do any of that. He does every other sport in the world, but I am not sporty. I can't do any sport. There's no sport I've ever found that I can ever do or want to do or like. So, no.

6:49Kaley Cuoco:I think you've made your position clear. Yes.

6:51Steph:So, anyway, I watch a lot of Winter Olympics. But I just want to say other things that you can watch if you are recovering. I watched two shows. I can't believe you...

7:00Kaley Cuoco:Sorry to interrupt. Yes, you interrupt. You mentioned the Winter Olympics because I was going to mention them as well. You haven't mentioned the curling, which was the absolute peak of the...

7:07Steph:Why did you think the curling was?

7:10Kaley Cuoco:Because curling has become a pop culture phenomenon.

7:13Steph:It was from the last Winter Olympics. I don't know why everyone's forgotten that.

7:16Kaley Cuoco:But even more this time.

7:17Steph:What, because of the Canadian guy who was swearing everywhere?

7:19Kaley Cuoco:The Canadian guy who was swearing, and allegedly some would say cheating. Some said, some said, not others. By swearing? No, no, no. He double-touched.

7:27Steph:I watched that footage over and over again. He double-touched that stone.

7:30Kaley Cuoco:This is what, yeah, this became the story of the games. And the fact that we missed out on gold yet again from our men's team. And just the whole sport became a phenomenon. We got videos of little kids, you know, sending their animals on a stone and this, that, and the other.

7:47Steph:I didn't want to talk about it too much because I know that James doesn't like any sport either. You've got to recall that. But can I just say, God, I wept so hard when Lindsay Vonn broke her leg. I was really upset because I really brought into the build-up of, Lindsay Vonn's making this triumph from a turn. She's doing it for 40-plus women. She's showing that you can ski and you can do anything. And then she...

8:08Kaley Cuoco:That was like on the first day.

8:09Steph:I know. And it was so upsetting. And when they airlifted and you heard her scream, it was awful. Other things. Other things that you can watch

8:17Kaley Cuoco:when you're having your tonsils out.

8:19Steph:I don't know how I missed this, but I watched the first season of Watson. Is that the hospital one? Yes, it is the hospital one.

8:27Sam Claflin:It's the procedural where Watson opens a hospital. Maurice Chestnut. Yes, we reviewed it on this podcast.

8:34Steph:But you said it was shit, didn't you?

8:36Sam Claflin:Well, it's mediocre. I mean, it's okay. Yeah, it's fine.

8:38Steph:Oh, no, it's great. This is stuff that you can watch and then you can fall into a little bit of a daze. And you can wake up and then you're like, oh no I can still get the plot

8:47Kaley Cuoco:you're not even double screener you're literally just falling TV you can fall asleep to and it doesn't matter

8:52Steph:recovery television that's what I'm saying that's not easy

8:55Kaley Cuoco:no no I'm with you it's definitely an example of that

8:57Steph:oh so I was like oh no they finished the operation now oh okay oh no I still know what's going on and I could have fallen asleep for like 7 minutes it was fine but I found it really enjoyable though it was enjoyable and comforting

9:10Kaley Cuoco:but it does what it does this is topical listening yes it is for today's review but there's an extraordinary I did research this because I wrote a preview of the show we're talking about later I don't know why I'm not naming it it's like Voldemort you can't actually say what it is young Sherlock and you'll see there's so many Sherlock based shows it's extraordinary so yeah carry on yeah

9:33Steph:but I did enjoy it and you know I love Maurice Chestnut he was great and I thought it was a good take on the whole what's in at home for me if I'm I mean, average take at best. Well, I'm saying recovery television. Anyway, and the other thing, which I bet both of you think is absolutely shit, is Running Point, Kate Hudson's... I haven't seen it. Why is it?

9:56Kaley Cuoco:What? Do you know about this? What the fuck is it? What's Running Point?

10:00Steph:Running Point is Kate Hudson, she takes over her family's basketball empire, and it's got Justin Theroux in it, and he's like... Oh, hang on.

10:10Sam Claflin:This rings a bell. This rings a bell. Because it's a show, isn't it? I think we I don't now if memories you know probably find out we'll probably find out that we reviewed it and talked about it in depth I don't think we did I think it was an option for one week and I don't think we ended up covering it unless I'm completely wrong and we literally reviewed it which is also possible but I do remember what it is

10:29Steph:Chet Hanks is in it as a basketball player it's I would say this is definitely recovery television but it was also really enjoyable and it's been renewed for a second season

10:37Kaley Cuoco:I mean I love Kate Hudson you will love this almost as much as Jennifer Garner do you I met her this is my you queued up please go on

10:45Steph:tell me how did you meet her

10:46Kaley Cuoco:I met her quite recently at the BAFTA screening of her rather wonderful Song Song Blue film yes about the Neil Diamond tribute act and she's absolutely Oscar nominated yeah some would say she deserves it more than Jessie Buckley some might say some might say we'll see anyway controversial yeah

11:04Steph:then I watched How to Get to Heaven from Belfast I did that and as a huge binge I watched the whole thing did it as a huge binge loved it obviously I mean god this woman Lisa McKee she's just unbelievable

11:14Sam Claflin:controversial shout a lot of our listeners have disliked it quite acutely which I thought was quite interesting

11:18Steph:that is very interesting and where are you getting this feedback from

11:21Sam Claflin:the internet partly feedback direct partly the subreddit partly all over the place you've got to stop reading this well no but it's interesting I can't go on the radio a lot of the problems a lot of the problems a lot of people have with it is my favourite the tonal shifts like they've been like it's neither and I did mention this the kind of neither fish nor foul thing like is it a murder mystery is it a comedy because it dials up the sitcom stuff so much that the balance feels, I won't say off because actually I think it worked really well, but the balance is unusual for a kind of a dramedy in that the comedy is far more dominant than you would expect for that kind of show.

11:54Sam Claflin:I actually think it works really well, but I can understand why it can be quite marmite for people.

11:57Steph:I really enjoy kind of a genre fusion. So I think it comes off as hugely original. I'm surprised people don't like it. I really thoroughly enjoyed it. And actually, do you know what I'm also going to mention? And I'm pointing at you. Okay. Because I listened back to a bit of one of the podcasts where I championed Small Prophets. Never listen back. No, but you know what? I can't remember what I was listening for. Anyway, Small Prophets, where you, James, lover of all things fi-sci, sci-fi everything. Yes, fi-sci. You called, yeah, sci-fi, and you said that Small Prophets was a bit weird.

12:32Sam Claflin:Yeah, it is. Of course it is. It is. It's self-consciously weird. It's deliberate.

12:37Steph:But I don't know how you could, I just don't think you can call anything weird when you love sci-fi. So anyway, I don't really mean to say that to you. No, you can't.

12:44Sam Claflin:Sci-fi is not by definition weird. It can be completely straightforward. Yeah, it's speculative, but it's not weird.

12:50Steph:No, but you said it was just typically weird. It can be weird. You said it was, anyway.

12:54Sam Claflin:Whereas what Small Profits is, it's deliberately off-kilter and quirky. So it's self-consciously weird. It's stylistically weird. Sci-fi can be that, but it most often isn't.

13:03Steph:My point being, there's tiny little creatures in it, and you often have... It's a monkey lie. Yeah, you often have tiny little creatures in sci-fi things and you don't find that weird. That's tenuous.

13:13Sam Claflin:This is so gloriously reductive it's almost like Hayes here. Wow.

13:17Steph:I'm just saying, anyway, my point being, as someone who speaks a lot to people about what they're watching, I mention Small Profits. Everybody's watching Small Profits and they really like it.

13:27Kaley Cuoco:Oh, that's undeniable. Small Profits is an absolute... It's a huge hit, isn't it? I would say it's the most acclaimed and admired show of the year so far.

13:35Steph:It's so charming and doing. If you haven't watched it, you should watch it.

13:38Kaley Cuoco:I still haven't finished it yet, only because I just haven't managed to find the time to. But it is, you know, I'm more than halfway through it. It's fantastic.

13:44Steph:You should go back and watch it. Yeah, should I? Yeah, you should.

13:47Kaley Cuoco:It's good. I mean, it's not going to. This is like all of those other shows we've ever talked about. It's going to be... I'm already looking forward to the back to see how high it gets in the end of year chart. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. Because it's going to be very, very high in a lot of people's end of year.

14:02Sam Claflin:Well, see, interestingly enough, the odds have changed for the end of year. vote because now that we have a fourth person, the maths has changed, hasn't it? So my votes get diluted by the fact that there'll be four people voting. But what you care about is your votes get diluted. That's right. You probably weigh them somehow. I mean, I'm sure I'll find some way to twist it to my evil designs, but nevertheless, you know.

14:23Steph:Yeah, but then that kind of might go against Kay because I do like sci-fi. Yeah. So.

14:28Kaley Cuoco:Even when it's weird. Even when it's weird.

14:29Steph:Well, no, I don't find sci-fi weird. With his little men. What I'm taking on with is that you're saying something's weird when actually that's kind of equally as weird growing homunculi in your shed it's not though it's like you're comparing

14:40Kaley Cuoco:the whole point about small um profit profit the whole point of it is is that in within its incredibly banal you know small suburban setting of a diy store and all of these things that are very seemingly mundane there's this magic thing happening in the middle of it and that's the whole point of it that the weirdness that's happening within the normality whereas in sci-fi if a thing is set on an alien planet you're going to have aliens on it aren't you?

15:07Steph:What I'm saying is essentially you either open your heart to fantasy or you just don't okay?

15:11Sam Claflin:I don't think that's how it works Yes it is No Oh God anyway

15:16Kaley Cuoco:Anyway

15:16Steph:I also watch Bridgerton

15:17Kaley Cuoco:I also watch Bridgerton Funny enough the Bridgerton gang are here in another studio I don't know Yes we walked past them when we came in Yeah

15:25Steph:And Benedict Bridgerton is my favourite character so I love this season

15:29Kaley Cuoco:Check it out It's good I'll go back to Bridgerton I did really enjoy it to start with Have you ever watched Bridgerton?

15:33Steph:No, he doesn't watch Bridgerton because he famously loves Downton and doesn't watch Bridgerton, which just doesn't make any sense. No. Again, doesn't make any sense.

15:41Sam Claflin:Because if I like one period drama, I must then, by definition, like all period dramas because I've opened my heart to period dramas.

15:48Steph:Yes. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Finally get it. I finally understand. Thank God. Steph's brain. Okay.

15:54Sam Claflin:This all makes sense to me now. Dear God, Boydie, please save me. What have you been watching?

15:58Kaley Cuoco:Well, I have been watching a few things. First of all, industry. So as this comes out, you know, I do my weekly industry shout out. Where you're at with industry. State of the industry with Boyd Hilton.

16:11Steph:Oh, nice. Thank you.

16:14Kaley Cuoco:And it's the finale. As we come out today on Monday, it's the finale. It's the season finale. And I've alluded before to how... I've alluded before to how? I've alluded before to the fact that there's a whole... Some people make this as a spoiler. I don't know. Hang on, hang on. If some people consider this a spoiler,

16:35Sam Claflin:I'm going to say it's then a spoiler.

16:37Kaley Cuoco:All right, I'm going to put in very, very generic. I've already mentioned it before, so I've already spoiled it. Right. For some listeners, but I'll be more vague this time. What happens in this series of industry, among many, many things, is that it ends up showing you how recent topical, horrific news stories involving people, how that kind of thing could be happened and enabled by people who you wouldn't necessarily consider to be evil. And it kind of looks into this is how, this is the kind of, the height of the financial global capitalist system allowing this thing to happen that I'm referring to is so interesting, the way it dissects that high society.

17:20Kaley Cuoco:Yeah, sorry, but I don't really understand what you're talking about.

17:22Sam Claflin:It's too vague.

17:22Kaley Cuoco:No, it's too vague.

17:24Steph:My favorite thing that you've said is how this thing could be happened. That's my favorite thing.

17:30Sam Claflin:Do you know what? I heard that and thought you know what I'm not going to pick him up on that I'm just going to let it slide I heard it

17:35Steph:and I thought I'm going to park that in there

17:37Kaley Cuoco:it's how it allows this thing that could be happened how it could be happened people who watch it will know what I'm talking about it's just it's just extraordinary it's so clever that there's a thread this is another way of describing it there's a thread through the series that only really fully comes to fruition you understand what they're getting at and what kind of topical stuff has been happening recently that they are alluding to which is the word allude to which listeners often tell me I'm using wrong. And it's just extraordinary. It's just so clever, basically. You sit there going, oh, okay, that's what they're getting at there with that story.

18:08Kaley Cuoco:That's all I'm going to say. Okay. I know that's confusing now and bewildering.

18:12Steph:Yeah, it's more bewildering now.

18:15Kaley Cuoco:Sorry.

18:16Steph:But essentially it could be happened, so check it out.

18:20Kaley Cuoco:Yeah, but it's an absolutely phenomenal series of industry, the fourth by far, easily the best series I've ever thought in a show that has always been brilliant for us.

18:28Steph:Actually, James and I are both, it failed the Bellend thing for us, didn't it? Yes, we failed the Bellend test. Or it failed the Bellend test for us. So we both haven't watched it. But I did say I was going to try and start watching it again. But then I accidentally watched Watson and Running Point, which are...

18:41Kaley Cuoco:It's time well spent. I'm not sure about that. Yeah, you should give it... I mean, I can understand that from him. No, I'll give it...

18:49Steph:Look, I open my heart.

18:50Kaley Cuoco:I didn't even know you subscribed to the Bellend test, to be honest. I'm quite shocked and appalled that you do.

18:55Steph:Yeah, I don't know whether I do. sometimes I agree with James sometimes I don't I don't know where I'm at yeah no I did think Steph once you open your heart

19:02Sam Claflin:to the band test it will always filter through

19:05Steph:I know what you mean because sometimes it is really hard to watch a show when you just don't like anyone yes at all and that was my problem with it but there must be there must be something that keeps you watching so I'm going to give it another go

19:17Kaley Cuoco:no no I've never watched a TV show in all of history where whether I like them or not is the issue I don't give a fucking shit whether I like them or not

19:24Steph:it's a lot of swear words It's completely irrelevant.

19:27Kaley Cuoco:In fact, some of the best shows in history obviously have full of, do not pass this test. Succession being the really obvious example. A show I do not watch. That's the whole point. And industry likes Succession. I mean, they're very different types of shows, but they're dealing in similar, you know, worlds. Maybe you're right.

19:41Steph:Maybe you can watch things with hateful. Of course you can. Actually, do you know what, James? The Shield, they're all pretty hateful.

19:46Sam Claflin:Well, no, I disagree. I think they are very anti-heroic and they are morally compromised and they're clearly not good people. But I think you like them regardless. Hardless. And I think that's by design.

19:57Steph:Yeah. Okay, anyway. What else have you been watching? Industry.

20:02Kaley Cuoco:I have been watching The Capture Series 3. Yes. And I don't know. Have you as well?

20:07Sam Claflin:I haven't yet.

20:08Kaley Cuoco:I don't know whether we're going to end up reviewing this or not properly because there's so many different shows. There's a lot of other new shows. The rule is that new shows trump returning shows. Yeah. So, it starts on the Sunday of the week we're doing. So, we're not reviewing it this week. There's other stuff we might have to review even on Plus next week. So, it might not get a proper look in. It might end up in a what we've been watching. Yeah, so that's why I mentioned it.

20:29Steph:As it is now. Go for it. Absolutely is.

20:31Kaley Cuoco:But I'm not going to do a proper review. It's also embargoed until kind of Friday. And you've only seen the first two episodes. I've seen the first two episodes. But all I'm going to say is, and this is a spoiler case, we're not going to review it. Hang on, hang on. Oh my God. There will be no spoilers for the capture. No, no, no, no, not the storyline. There's spoilers within our system of podcasting. So the unspoken rule where we're not allowed to say what we think of it. Exactly. Yeah, okay, gotcha. It's fucking brilliant. it is so good I love the first two series but it's become more pointed now given everything that's happening

21:02Sam Claflin:so pointed and it's

21:04Kaley Cuoco:so cutting edge Ben Channon who writes and creates it did we do him on the live podcast he came to the 250th live show and he then he has to keep his finger on the nub of all of this modern technology facial recognition deep fake etc all of that stuff and it's so now, it's so kind of touching upon everything that's happening now in that world. It's just unbelievable and that was the case for Series 1 and Series 2. Now, it's even more extraordinary and it shows you stuff that can happen in the opening scene. There's this opening scene where someone's running through Heathrow Airport. It reminded me a bit of the Mission Impossible film, the last one, the first part of which was Dead Reckoning.

21:43Kaley Cuoco:Dead Reckoning had that big airport scene, didn't it? Involving facial recognition to some extent. But it takes it to an even further, even more extraordinary degree. and the central story episode one is one of the best first episodes of a series I can remember from ages it's so clever what he's done with the characters that are coming back with Holiday Granger's main character it's so smart what he's done because he always works very hard at making something incredibly gripping and compelling and surprising with lots of shocks and twists and turns all the way through but he does some brilliant rug pulls all the way through and it's like one after the other in the opening episode.

22:23Kaley Cuoco:And then it carries on that way. There's another incredible cliffhanger at the end of episode two, just in case the previous cliffhangers in episode one weren't enough. So I think this has now reached a new peak. It's up there with Line of Duty for me. I think it's got that similar kind of unbelievably, hugely fast-paced, gripping storyline, but also characters you totally believe in. You totally believe in, you know, particularly, she's brilliant, absolutely brilliant, Holiday Granger in that role.

22:47Steph:So this is a classic third season peak?

22:49Kaley Cuoco:I think it's a real third season peak. Okay. Yeah. And I'm slightly annoyed that we're not reviewing this instead of certain shows.

22:54Sam Claflin:Okay, we'll get into that later. Hey, no one's more annoyed than me. I love the capture.

22:59Kaley Cuoco:But the rules are the rules. The rules are the rules. Yeah, we have our rules. So that's that. And I just want to mention, oh, Vladimir is another one I've watched, but I think we will. We're going to review that title. Do not mention it. That's new. It's new.

23:11Steph:It's new. It's going in.

23:12Kaley Cuoco:It's going in. I'm going to mention Handcuffed, which is very much not in James' Wheelhouse, but this starts on Monday. and Kay hosted the Q &A for this with Jonathan Ross who's the host of it

23:22Steph:oh did she?

23:23Kaley Cuoco:yeah I wasn't there I'm not allowed to go to these things now why? anything that Kay hosts I'm not allowed to go to you're not allowed to go? no no she won't I mean I'm the same way I wouldn't want that anyway oh okay alright

23:33Steph:oh sorry by your own like you

23:36Kaley Cuoco:it's a weird thing don't even ask

23:37Steph:you've decided you don't want to go to you don't want to put her off and she doesn't want to put you off

23:40Kaley Cuoco:oh she doesn't want me to go and put her off she absolutely will not allow me to go I would allow her in strict sense to come to one of my Q &A as a host but she's not to the next one she doesn't heckle

23:49Sam Claflin:from the front row

23:49Kaley Cuoco:yeah anyway she hosts it very well I'm sure and this is the show where people get handcuffed to each other and have to live with each other for completely handcuffed everything going to bed having a shower going to the toilet it's extraordinary people will watch such nonsense

24:05Steph:okay right

24:06Kaley Cuoco:and the people who stay handcuffed together the longest win 100 ,000 pounds between them which is a huge prize

24:12Steph:okay right

24:13Kaley Cuoco:and it's hugely entertaining I have to say

24:15Steph:oh it is I mean you know reality TV is not really I like shows about reality TV like that Americans Next Top Model one which is lots of people are watching uncovering the Americans about Tara Banks and how she just she was awful and she still sort of doesn't care that she was awful and she goes yeah I was awful but she doesn't care I know I mentioned a couple of pods ago about Biggest Loser you know they did documentary on the Biggest Loser and there's an American so it seems to be very much a thing now of like looking back at old reality shows and saying why they're so terrible which I really enjoy but I always find it really hard I don't know, maybe this is why you don't like reality TV as well.

24:49Steph:I find it really difficult to watch a reality TV show if someone hasn't, it's not, you know, they're doing something that's not like a skill. You know what I mean? Like, I can watch, Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders is great, reality show, but you can't, like, I could be handcuffed to somebody. So I just don't know how that, I just don't find it that entertaining. Do you know what I mean?

25:07Sam Claflin:Oh, I, as you know, detest this stuff with every fibre of my being. Yeah, it's not like that, though.

25:14Kaley Cuoco:Okay, it's not. I know it's a cliche, but it is more of a social experiment because they deliberately pick, they're not randomly put together. The producers have deliberately picked people of opposing social standing or class or race or politics. So you've got a right-wing old, literally like 80-year-old guy handcuffed to a young woman who might be sexually ambiguous or whatever. It's just they're brought together opposites. And that's the whole point of it, really. can you endure being handcuffed to someone who is completely the opposite of you? So it's actually genuinely fascinating. Okay, that is interesting.

25:49Kaley Cuoco:And immediately in episode one, one of the guys involved is what kind of tries to walk out and is furious with the whole thing, even though they've signed up for it, obviously. Genuinely, it's not like, it's absolutely nothing like Love Island or anything like that. It's not like a reality show.

26:01Steph:It's a game show, really.

26:03Kaley Cuoco:It's kind of more of a game show, yeah. But it's just, and a social experiment. It is genuinely intriguing to watch.

26:08Steph:Are there any reality shows you have watched and enjoyed? Anything at all?

26:11Sam Claflin:I watched one episode of The Traitors on Pilot Plus, and I appreciated the craft that went into putting it together. And it feels like if I were ever to watch a reality show, which, and let's be honest, I never ever will, that would be the only one I would consider, because that's like the peak TV, that's the prestige drama of reality shows, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, yes.

26:32Kaley Cuoco:Someone will appear on Traitors, Celebrity Traitors, who you will really like. Yeah. This is my hope. And then I'll watch it. Yeah, like Patrick Stewart will be on it or something. The Poetry Show could easily be on it. In fact, maybe he is on it. Yeah. Who knows? Taylor Swift, our celebrity photos. Taylor Swift. I mean, you know, who knows? Yeah, that would be a good booking. But yeah, that would make you watch, wouldn't it? If you're absolutely one of your favourites.

26:54Sam Claflin:It would have to be someone I genuinely was really interested to see.

26:58Steph:So even in the real genesis of it, you never watch any Big Brother. You never watch anything like that. No. Because I used to love Big Brother. Of course, you're not walking with me.

27:07Kaley Cuoco:Dreadful. James defines himself by his opposition to reality TV. I mean, that's fair. It's not a casual thing. It's part of my identity. Yeah, it's part of his identity.

27:15Steph:Have you ever watched Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders?

27:18Kaley Cuoco:I've never watched that either. What do you think, Steph? I've never watched that show. I didn't even know it exists, or is it?

27:23Steph:Netflix, Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, basically follows... What channel is that? It's Netflix. Okay, so Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, it's these women, these incredible athletes who go through this grueling process to become a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. And these women are athletes.

27:39Kaley Cuoco:Don't men get involved in cheerleading now? It's still just women.

27:42Steph:This is not male cheerleading. This is like all the females.

27:46Kaley Cuoco:But aren't they mixed though? They don't have mixed cheerleading? No, they don't have. This is the Dallas Cowboy cheerleading.

27:50Steph:It's brilliant. If you haven't watched it, it's really...

27:52Sam Claflin:We are 37 minutes into this podcast and we haven't even got through what we've been watching.

27:58Steph:We haven't even got to you. Right, James, I'm going to stop. I can't even with this. Go.

28:01Sam Claflin:Well, funnily enough, I was watching Big Brother the other night. No, I wasn't, of course. What have I watched? And you know, I'm going to go through this really, really briefly, just for the sake of all our listeners' sanity. I have been watching Paradise, which we reviewed on Pilot Plus. I was surprised the first three episodes dropped straight out the gate, which is interesting, which makes sense, because it takes until the third episode for you to get back into the, you know, silo, if you will. So that was fun. I've been enjoying Paradise quite a lot. I have finished the first season of Broadchurch and stormed straight into I'm now halfway through the second series of Broadchurch and I'm utterly obsessed with the show by the way

28:39Kaley Cuoco:I know we are running it very late but a lot of people have come up to me and said can you believe James is just fucking watching Broadchurch it's embarrassing people have been absolutely they find it hilarious I've had literally two or three different people some of whom are quite important famous people talented people say James is just watching Broadchurch what the fuck I was like yeah

28:58Sam Claflin:yeah

28:59Steph:at least you like it

29:01Sam Claflin:I got to the end of Broadchurch and I was genuinely thinking did I watch this? I might have watched it well originally yeah I don't think I did I don't think I did ever watch the whole thing but I definitely knew who the killer was but had forgotten and genuinely and I'm not going to say it here just in case anyone hasn't seen Broadchurch but I didn't everyone's seen Broadchurch I was guessing and guessing and obviously you figured it out by like the penultimate episode obviously because you're supposed to have but I was like wow it was so good I was yeah properly properly obsessed with Broadchurch and got so into all the different personalities in the little town.

29:32Sam Claflin:So the second series, I have really mixed feelings about because I'm really enjoying it. But I was expecting it to be another murder, not essentially the trial of the person who was guilty of the first killing. The only issue I have with it, and I'm not going to get into too much details again for spoilers, but I didn't really buy that. Because the whole point of the second series is the person who was discovered to have done the killing of the first one pleads not guilty. so it actually goes to trial. And you're like, you confess to like three separate people. Like, and I'm fairly certain they monitor the cells because you were discussing it with the father of the deceased in the final episode.

30:11Sam Claflin:And it's like, did they? Just forget about all of this.

30:14Steph:No, no, no, no, no. Crucially, you, right.

30:16Sam Claflin:No, I know, I know, I know what happens. I know that like the actual official confession is compromised. But they talk about it with other people as well. And those people are never called as witnesses. I have questions for Charlotte Rampling. I have questions for the barrister. I've forgotten Charlotte Rampling. Oh, my God. The talent on display here. Charlotte Rampling turns up. Eve Myles turns up. Fucking Phoebe Waller-Bridge turns up. It is wild. The stacked bench of the show. It's mad.

30:43Steph:It's very true to the legal procedure because most people who you go, well, they definitely did it, plead not guilty because you have to prove it in a court of law. And it's very, actually, very difficult.

30:53Sam Claflin:But do they do that after they've confessed to multiple people that they've done it?

30:56Steph:Yes, they do, because those confessions are inadmissible.

30:59Kaley Cuoco:Don't challenge Steph on her true crime knowledge. That's true, I shouldn't. But she is right. I do tell you, you're absolutely right. Because people claim confessions were kind of forced out. Coerced. Yeah, like coerced confession. Yeah, confessions don't mean anything. You're always advised, almost 90 % of the time advised by your lawyer to plead not guilty.

31:19Steph:And even sometimes you can do the crime and, you know, OJ. Do you know what I mean? Like you can clearly have done it.

31:24Sam Claflin:True, true, true, yes. and then, you know, later kind of admitted it.

31:27Kaley Cuoco:So you're in the middle of season two?

31:30Sam Claflin:I am on, I think, episode six of season two, of series two, since the British show.

31:35Kaley Cuoco:Isn't there also a murder case at the same time?

31:38Sam Claflin:Well, no, so it's the Sandbrook murder. So it's the one that... Oh, the old case. Yeah, the David Tennant's old case. That is kind of circling, like, percolating in the background. But it's all about, like, you know, the small town, like, frictions. I'm getting very into it. Also, Pauline Quirk is brilliant. Oh, yeah.

31:53Steph:Pauline Quirk is really even. E-Mars is so good in the second season.

31:56Sam Claflin:E-Mars is very, very good. Pauline Quirk is so surly. Oh, she's just awful, but in the best way. So, yeah, it is ridiculous that I've just discovered Broadchurch. I am aware of that. And, you know, if we hadn't reviewed Undersault Marsh, I never would have jumped back into this. No, yeah, it was that, yeah. Because I remember you saying, this is the absolute gold standard of these shows. And I was just like, I don't think I ever finished it.

32:16Steph:Have you continued watching Undersault Marsh?

32:18Sam Claflin:No, because I'm Broadchurching and I only have one at a time. But I will go back to it. Please go back to Undersault Marsh

32:22Steph:because it continues to be absolutely brilliant. Have you finished on Silk Marches?

32:28Sam Claflin:Absolutely. That really is the benchmark. Yeah, I'm becoming a crime addict. Do you know why?

32:34Steph:Because you've opened your heart. Have I? I've opened my heart to it.

32:36Sam Claflin:Rural crime. Rural crime is now my go-to.

32:39Steph:I'm going to have to disown you if you go cosy, but apart from that, welcome. I will never go cosy crime, don't worry.

32:44Sam Claflin:The other thing I have been doing is not watching something but playing something. But if you can talk about films, I can talk about video games, especially because this one is TV adjacent. I have been playing and have been obsessed with Star Trek Voyager Across the Unknown, which is a new Star Trek Voyager game that I've been playing on PlayStation. And I'm absolutely obsessed with it. Absolutely obsessed with it.

33:07Steph:What do you have to do in it?

33:08Sam Claflin:So, for people who play games, it's like a cross between Fallout Shelter and FTL. Like, it's a procedurally generated kind of survival sim. FTL. What does that sound for? It's a game, Faster Than Light. Is what? Faster Than Light. FTL. FTL. Oh, it sounds like it said F. Sorry.

33:24Kaley Cuoco:Oh, okay.

33:26Sam Claflin:Right, right, right. And basically, the idea was you have to survive in the Delta Quadrant. Like, it's the plot of the game. Yeah, okay, right. But you have to, like, do resource management and, like, build out your ship, and then you'll get attacked by, like, tribbles will break out on the ship, and you have to deal with that. But what's really fun about it is, like, it's quite lo-fi, and it's quite texty. And they have, like, they've got the actors who play Tuvok, Tim Russ and Tom Paris, and they're the only people doing voices, ain't anyone else. and they sound quite old when they're doing it.

33:52Sam Claflin:But you have a couple of voices, but really you see pictures of the crew members and then you just get their dialogue. But you get to send them on away missions and stuff. But essentially you replay many of the episodes from the show. That's quite fun. So for me, the reason I'm enjoying it so much is, oh, I remember this one. I know what happens. And so you reenact it and obviously you can change what happens.

34:13Steph:Is it like choose your adventure type thing?

34:15Sam Claflin:Yeah, so you can change how it goes down. so like the bit where Tuvok and Neelix get combined by the transporter and turned into a one being called Tuvix like in the game you can decide not to split them apart again and just have Tuvix as part of your crew and you can do stuff like that and as a Star Trek nerd I'm loving stuff like that yes

34:33Steph:do you do is it like a joystick game is it like a typey game it's a joystick game

34:37Kaley Cuoco:you said it's on a game console do you get your joystick involved before we had to edit it out because of a mistake and I'm still reeling from that okay

34:43Steph:do you do you know is it what guys I'm not I'm not a you know I don't do games so how do you do it? Is it one of the is it a

34:53Sam Claflin:You do use the controller but yes you're more clicking on things than you are you know steering things if that helps and choosing dialogue choices like you have to make decisions because you're Janeway you're essentially Janeway I'd love it

35:03Steph:if you actually could get like a whole Star Trek like panel and then you could do it like you were on deck that would be great

35:08Sam Claflin:well it doesn't quite work like that but I'm having a lot of fun with it I've just got past the Scorpion episode so Jerry Ryan seven of nine has joined the crew so that was very exciting but yeah I have spent so many hours reliving Voyager's journey through the Delta Quadrant. And I was like, oh, I know this episode, so I know what to do because I remember what happened.

35:24Steph:Yeah, but you shouldn't do the thing that you know what happens. You should see what happens if you do something different.

35:28Sam Claflin:Yeah, but I like to be canonical. You're nothing if not canonical. Well, there is one episode. Now I have two B 'Elanna Torres as part of my crew. I have a Klingon one, a full Klingon one and a half Klingon one because the full Klingon version of her dies in an episode, but I kept her alive.

35:42Steph:Is it one of those games where people can come in as well, like from the outside? oh no it's just a solo solo

35:48Sam Claflin:single player survival game but yes I'm enjoying it a lot I did review it for Empire I gave it three stars but if you are a massive Trek head it's definitely a four star experience

35:59Steph:Boyd will you be getting your joystick out and playing with Star Trek Jesus Christ no I will not

36:04Kaley Cuoco:no and in fact that's made me feel a lot better for droning on at length about what I've been watching and you droning on at equal length about what you should be watching because he's talking about a fucking video game yes I think we're all absolved

36:15Steph:Yeah, we're all observed. It's TV-centric.

36:18Sam Claflin:I'm just saying it is on brand. Right. Tenuous. Three quarters of an hour into this podcast. That's what we've been watching. I am so sorry for everything.

36:27Kaley Cuoco:To be fair, it did take you about an hour to record the intro.

36:29Steph:Oh, you did 17 intros. There's been no one listening to this knows that. Yeah, well, they do now. Now they do now. They do now.

36:35Sam Claflin:Now they do now. It's time for a listener question. And, Steph, it's all about you.

36:39Steph:Oh.

36:39Sam Claflin:Because the subject line was, Steph! Exclamation mark.

36:42Steph:Oh.

36:42Sam Claflin:And this one comes from Jake. Is it nice?

36:44Steph:Is it nice?

36:45Sam Claflin:You've got to find out in a second.

36:46Steph:Okay.

36:47Sam Claflin:Jake says, I was just wondering if there was a possibility on either the main pod or Plus if Steph could have a regular feature where she could recommend an old or new true crime related TV show. This isn't the question you sent us. I sent YouTube. This was the second one. I only sent it to Steph. But, so, Steph clearly didn't read it. but now, now, this is not going to become a regular thing. I'm so sorry, but we're going to do it now as a one-off, as a one-off segment. And I have decided we're going to call this segment, this one-off segment, crime, Boyd I Don't Know, but Steph Does. There we go.

37:20Sam Claflin:See, that's a laboured West Wing reference. Anyway.

37:23Steph:We could definitely have it as a regular. Okay, right. One's, okay. Is it going to be Broadchurch? No, it's not because it's true crime and Broadchurch is not a true crime. Oh yes, that's a good point.

37:32Sam Claflin:That's a good point.

37:32Steph:I'm so sorry. You're a little detail there.

37:34Sam Claflin:Fell down at the first half.

37:35Steph:Well, I tell you what is good, actually. I was just putting together a list of some really good true crimes. Actually, this is really handy and I got some at the tip of my tongue So, if you haven't, the first one I would say, which is a documentary called Long Shot, which you should definitely watch, Boyd, because it's a man who was wrongly accused of a crime. And the reason he was, I don't know whether to give it away. I need to give it away. Hang on, hang on.

38:03Sam Claflin:If you're recommending the show, you definitely cannot spoil the show.

38:07Steph:You will know, basically, a TV show is filmed and the man is absolved of the film. I thought you were going to say. Yeah, I know that story. Do you know the story? Okay, so it's one of Boyd's... It's Curb Your Enthusiasm. Curb Your Enthusiasm. Yes. Curb Your Enthusiasm are filming something.

38:24Kaley Cuoco:It was in a basketball stadium, wasn't it?

38:26Steph:A baseball stadium. In a baseball stadium. And they have footage of this person which proves that this person's not guilty. It's a crazy story. Larry David's on this documentary. Because it gives you the alibi.

38:38Sam Claflin:You know, that person's alibi is Curb Your Enthusiasm.

38:42Kaley Cuoco:Have you done the story? Yeah, it's a famous story.

38:43Steph:It's absolutely fantastic. if you haven't watched I mean you haven't heard it so it's really good it's Netflix it's fantastic I would also recommend so that's Juan Catalan and he's on it Larry David's on it it's almost too insane to believe that it actually happened the chance that he is a free man just because of Curb Your Enthusiasm it's crazy anyway if you haven't watched The Staircase Michael Peterson please go back and watch a classic I'm giving classics because I was just doing a list of classics

39:11Sam Claflin:and is that the documentary or the dramatisation because there's both, isn't there? When they both called The Staircase, were they?

39:17Steph:They were. I would, Jean Lestrade, I would watch his documentary, the original. I didn't enjoy the dramatisation. Did you, Boyd?

39:28Kaley Cuoco:I thought it was interesting because it touched a lot upon the actual media coverage of it and how it was made and how the crew, so you kind of met the crew, didn't you? I thought it was a good, interesting way of doing it. But you meet the crew in the second

39:40Steph:and they do a second part of The Staircase and you meet the crew. so I would go for that I would also recommend The Keepers which is an amazing story Nun Kathy Sesnick is it sort of really weirdly reminds me of The Shield I know this is going to sound strange because so this nun is murdered in 1969 and this is an unsolved crime still and it's how she got murdered and it's all about kind of the corruption the police corruption and what happens and were they involved and again I'm not going to give anything away but that's a great story and an unsolved murder one of my favourite crimes ever Lacey Peterson was a pregnant woman who got murdered her husband Scott Peterson is still in prison for it Lacey Peterson American Murder is also on Netflix people are saying now there's been new evidence in the last couple of years that he didn't that people are saying he didn't do it my personal opinion is he 100 % did do it he was it's a classic one they find out after she's been murdered that he was having an affair and so everyone's like oh he definitely did do it but make your own mind up because it's a really good documentary.

40:46Steph:Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey which is a story of Warren Jeffs. Again, I love a cult. Absolutely love a cult.

40:54Sam Claflin:I love a cult.

40:54Steph:No, I do. I'm just talking over the fact

40:56Sam Claflin:that you have a favourite murder. Yeah, exactly.

40:59Kaley Cuoco:You did say that.

41:00Steph:Yeah, of course. Everyone who loves crime has a favourite murder. Murderous death cult.

41:03Kaley Cuoco:Your favourite murderous death cult is what?

41:07Steph:There's so many good murderous death cults but this one is Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey and it's Warren Jeffs. if you haven't heard of Warren Jeffs just watch this because you need to know about Warren Jeffs

41:15Kaley Cuoco:I'm surprised you ever mentioned for me the show that kind of was responsible for bringing on this whole true crime Making a Murderer yeah

41:21Steph:yeah it's on my list Making a Murderer but I feel like everyone's watched I feel like most people have watched Making a Murderer I was trying to well it doesn't sound like

41:28Kaley Cuoco:this dude has well I don't know

41:30Steph:I just feel like

41:30Kaley Cuoco:what do you think people still yeah it's quite a while ago people younger people probably don't even know okay well Making a Murderer one and two

41:37Steph:yeah and he's still inside yeah this is yeah but Okay, that would be my kind of big list of five that I think you should start with. But I will, I mean, I can give you lists every week if you want. No, that's more than enough. Is that enough for you? Yes, for me.

41:50Sam Claflin:We'll call it Steph's Favourite Murders. We'll do a countdown.

41:52Steph:And I know I mention this a lot when anyone asks anything about you, but please watch Night Stalker, which is, again, a Netflix one. I know I'm saying a lot about Netflix, but nobody does true crime like Netflix. They are just, they are absolutely the best. They really are, in my opinion. So, there you go.

42:10Sam Claflin:well Jake you see what you've unleashed don't you I hope that has answered your question if you would like to ask Steph a question about true crime feel free to send it in it's pilot tv at empire magazine dot com at least for now because that address is going to change but it hasn't yet but that one for now yeah okay it's time for this week's guests and joining us this week are none other than Kayleigh Cuoco and Sam Claflin stars of Vanished on Prime Video which we reviewed last week and in case you weren't listening That show sees Cuoco as an archaeologist whose boyfriend, played by Sam Claflin, vanishes on a train through France.

42:45Sam Claflin:The show is airing now on Prime and both Kayleigh and Sam spoke to Jordan about the show.

42:50Kaley Cuoco:It is a real pleasure to welcome to the Pilot TV podcast two of the stars of MGM Plus has vanished. We have Kayleigh Cuoco with us and yes, we did find him, Sam Claflin. How are you today? I'm still looking for myself. Where is Tom? How are you both today? Good, how are you? I'm good, I'm good. I mean, I've finished all four episodes. Congratulations on the show. If you'd have given me 100 guesses as to what was going to happen maybe every five minutes in the show, I think maybe it'd take me 95 guesses to get even remotely close to what was going to happen. That's good.

43:22Sam Claflin:At least you'd get there. I feel like I had no idea.

43:25Kaley Cuoco:I've been around the block a few times with a thriller or two, but I was still sort of scratching my brain for a lot of this. That's great.

43:30Sam Claflin:That's what you want. That's very exciting to hear.

43:33Kaley Cuoco:But I guess a good place to start is when you guys were first reading the scripts for this were you having that experience too just like next page next page what's going to happen i definitely didn't know what was going

43:44Steph:to happen i which obviously you want you don't want to be guessing it right off the bat although i do try um so i enjoyed i kind of wondered where i actually didn't know even what was going to happen to the very very very end what the decisions were going to be so that was fun and i like that it's four episodes it feels like one kind of cool movie you know that kind of it's quick and it moves fast and it's beautiful to look at and yeah it's just my type of tv it's the type of tv that i like

44:09Sam Claflin:that i enjoy yeah i think kelly's right i think the fact that it is four episodes you knew you feel the ending is coming um but i i like yourself i was trying to sort of second guess constantly where it was going ahead of time and never predicted where it was going the fact that each episode sort of left with such a an impactful kind of cliffhanger um yeah i mean forced me to read all four like very very quickly um but yeah i think i think looking back in reflection knowing that that it kind of completely took me for a ride and i had no idea of which direction it was going who these people were uh it really really resonated with me and like left left its mark um so yeah i mean i had to get involved you know yeah you both touched on something really

44:57Kaley Cuoco:interesting there with the format of the show obviously it's four episodes and as someone that watches a lot of tv for work i really appreciated the fact that there was a real sense of authorial confidence in the sense that it was like okay we've got four episodes here there's no fat on this thing at all you can essentially watch it like a three-hour film with like tiny toilet breaks in between yeah but obviously like for me i have the benefit of binge watching it because i got sent the screen is it's being released as a weekly dropper which benefits from the cliffhangers that you've got, you've got these really juicy cliffhangers each episode.

45:30Kaley Cuoco:Do you guys have a preference when you're watching stuff at home between whether you like to save something up and binge it or whether you like to go, okay, I'm going to watch one now. I'm going to save it a few days. Watch the next one.

45:40Steph:I go back and forth with that. TV is so interesting now, right? You've got shows that are four episodes. You've got full seasons, 24. You've got eight, 12. It's not what it used to be. It's all over the map. So I guess it depends on the show. I like a binge personally. I like to stock them all up and binge because I don't like when it's over. But that's just a personal preference.

46:00Sam Claflin:Yeah, I think there's nothing worse than kind of finding something five episodes in when there's 10 episodes, binging it for a little while and then having to wait. I'm much more of a binger myself. I love to binge. And four episodes, I think the great thing is it's perfect for an end of night thing where you've always got enough for two or three. But then if there's only one more, you're not going to wait for a whole other night. So it's going to force people to watch that fourth one, I think.

46:31Kaley Cuoco:Well, I'm kind of of the school of thought that if the whole box set's there, I'll watch the whole thing at once. If it started its run and it's like, oh, it's four episodes in, like you're saying, Sam, I'll just wait then until the whole thing's finished and then I'll go all at once.

46:44Sam Claflin:The hard thing is when people start talking about it. I remember when Severance came out and everyone was talking about Severance. Yeah. I was like, well, I can't, I can't, I can't not, I can't, I can't not. I was sort of itching at the bit because I wanted to be part of the conversation. It's hard with social media now.

47:00Steph:It's hard with social media to be behind any of it because you're going to get answers on everything. You're like, oh, God, I can't open my phone. They're going to spoilers, you know?

47:10Kaley Cuoco:Yeah, yeah. I feel like with this one especially, you don't want the secrets to be spilled. You want that kind of roller coaster ride that you go on with it. But something that really struck me when I was telling, because obviously I tell friends and family, you know, I'm interviewing this person this week, this person this week, is that everyone that I know knows both of you best for something very different. So like my father-in-law and I bond over a love of Peaky Blinders together. My best mates at uni, like we all love Big Bang Theory. Then my wife and I literally in the car on the way to school with the kids will listen to Daisy Jones and the Six.

47:41Kaley Cuoco:Like we've got this wide pool of references for you both, which I think speaks to not only your range as actors, but also the range of stories that you're interested in telling. So I was just wondering for both of you now at this moment in your careers, what is it that you're actually looking for when a script comes your way and what was it that vanished had that made you go okay this this is going this is going in the resume oh gosh um i

48:04Steph:think this time in our business is so different than it used to be i mean i'm thinking back to big bang theory days which just feels like so long ago but life was very different back then and i think making anything now is so difficult and getting a job and getting on its feet and tying it up on a bow and like releasing it to me is like such a big feat. So when something comes in, that's actually ready to go. I think it's like way more rare than it used to be. And being able, you know, after these last few years and kind of having these dips with the strikes and all these things, this felt like secure.

48:34Steph:And also, again, I fell in love with our director, Barnaby Thompson. I really wanted to work with him. There was something very special about him. And it's a father-son duo. His son wrote it or wrote it later, didn't write it, but fixed it later. And And they worked together as a team. And there was something that I loved about that. And I wanted to work with Sam and, you know, obviously working in France. And there was just, again, I think at this point, a lot of boxes that were checked. And then I like this type of TV. I like, you know, the big-eyed. Where are we going? Where is she going? What's happening?

49:04Steph:Did he do it? She do it? Who's good? Who's bad? It's just what I enjoy watching. I prefer a little more comedy. I tried to get it in here. But this wasn't. You really did. Oh, God. You really did. They were really suffocating me. They're like, no, this isn't funny. Stop. just stop being funny.

49:18Sam Claflin:It was nice to explore the sort of episode one, which is sort of more the romantic stuff, or the sequences when we were actually together. Yeah. It was nice sort of, we did that at the end. Yeah. It felt like we were in a romantic comedy. Yeah, yeah, we tried. Yeah, it's a real bait and switch, isn't it? We kept getting tempered.

49:36Steph:They're like, it's not really a romantic comedy. I was like, oh.

49:38Sam Claflin:Just remember where this is going.

49:39Steph:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're having fun. We're in love.

49:42Kaley Cuoco:Yeah, exactly. It was halfway through episode one. Like, I'm going to say, maybe we watch this with the whole family together. yeah maybe we watch that separately yeah yeah so many things i've got this long list of different things to ask about the show but something that you both sort of touched on there is like how you both wanted to work with each other and i sort of talked about your vast body of work already but had you guys's paths ever crossed at like social events or like award shows or anything like that before this or or were there any specific projects of each other's that had kind of put you on each other's radar before you started doing vanished we never met no no this was this was our

50:20Sam Claflin:first did you ask about me i did always every day every day oh every day where is she today

50:28Steph:i think you do act like i feel like i asked people that knew you he's very beloved in the business like really yes everyone i mean come on everyone loves him he's an absolute joy so that Everyone was like, yes, yes, oh my God, yes, yes, yes. People love him.

50:45Sam Claflin:And equally, I was sort of very aware of Kaylee's presence. Strangely, I was talking to someone on the job I'm working on now, only two days ago, and I was saying, oh, my friend has this farm in LA of rescue animals. She was like, Kaylee, oh my God.

51:05Steph:Who was it?

51:06Sam Claflin:Daisy Ridley.

51:07Steph:Oh, yes. She was like, oh my God, yeah. Because I work with Tom. Tom.

51:10Sam Claflin:Tom went out. So, you know, you're never too far. It's always six degrees of separation in this industry. And I feel like I knew enough people that knew Kaylee. And I was sort of also very aware of her previous work, but also her online presence and what she stands for. So you kind of get the idea that she's a good person. Yeah. And I think that always allows you, you know, that kind of enough information to go, this is a safe environment. And, yeah.

51:37Steph:What surprised me so much about Sam early on is he makes fun of himself the way I make fun of myself. He's so much fun. He's constantly laughing, which so am I. So to be able to be working with someone that really is very lighthearted, I find it's rare. It's very rare. All we did was a lot of laughing, which is important to me.

52:00Kaley Cuoco:It feels like whenever I talk to anyone that's been in something with a particularly dark tone to it, you always get the stories of how like upbeat the atmosphere needed to be between takes yeah for the relief the morale up because else you just like go into a quiet hotel room and just

52:14Steph:sit with your head in your head that's not good you don't want to do that no definitely not i'm

52:19Kaley Cuoco:gonna have to let you guys go very soon i feel like this has gone very quickly but something that it would be remiss of me not to ask about just because i mentioned my wife and i listening to look at us now in the car on the way to work on the way to school every morning have when was the last time yourself sam taylor jenkins reed and riley keogh were in a room talking about an aurora reunion tour that we never got to see and kaylee do you have any musical talents and might

52:44Sam Claflin:you appear on said tour given the chance to get star um no i i haven't been in a room with uh Riley and Taylor recently, but we have been in an email exchange because I think I was asked during this press tour, I was asked a question in America, like whether we were coming back to reunite. And I think that just sort of reignited, you know, a loving bond. And so we kind of reconnected in that way um i don't know if i can talk about the the contents of said email not to sort of uh give people false hope we're not coming back for season two as far as i'm aware but no it was just i think there's some sort of exciting things around the corner for taylor um you know and and indeed sort of for us but it's it's uh yeah it's always nice to hear from them they're you know it felt their family and kaylee's now part of my family so in a sense she's she's like the cousin that comes to visit for Thanksgiving.

53:49Sam Claflin:She's the Daisy Jones in the seventh. Thank you. She's Daisy's sister. She's an honorary member of the band.

53:54Steph:And no, I don't sing. That's my answer to that.

53:58Sam Claflin:I don't know. You can sing. Did I sing? No, I don't sing.

54:01Steph:I enjoy singing because I like to sing in the shower, but I'm not a good singer. No, that's not my talent.

54:07Kaley Cuoco:You do have a farm full of rescue animals, though, and Daisy Jones in the sixth did have a distinct lack of animals. This is it. Was it the zonkey?

54:15Sam Claflin:I have a zonkey. A zonkey. I love that one. Yeah. the Zonky I feel like I showed you a picture of the Zonky the first day we met him look at this

54:21Kaley Cuoco:oh my god I want one I mean look at this now is a great song but if there was a Zonky solo somewhere in the middle of that

54:29Sam Claflin:strangely you brought that up because the man that wrote that song Marcus Mumford I just bumped into him who's that I just bumped into him in the hotel this morning oh you're sleeping in that oh my god yeah so small small world that is a small world that sound riffing in the corridor on a long street serendipitous Banjo.

54:48Kaley Cuoco:Well, this has been great. Vanished is great. Whether people choose to binge watch it or peep meal it out, I think that they will have a very good time with it. So, yeah, congratulations on the show, guys. Thank you. And I hope that I get to see you both together in something again one day. Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you. I'm never working with him again.

55:06Sam Claflin:That was Kelly Kowko and Sam Claflin, and it's time now for the news. Who wants to start?

55:13Kaley Cuoco:Well, I'll tell you the news that broke just today, this morning, just before we convened for this longest podcast in history. Do tell. The Dr. Foster is coming back. Yes, it is for a third and final series. It's right to me by surprise because I didn't know about this. I genuinely had no idea that this was happening. People may have... That's why it's called News, Boydie.

55:32Steph:Unbelievable.

55:34Kaley Cuoco:You twat.

55:36Steph:Unbelievable.

55:36Kaley Cuoco:There's loads of TV news breaks and you think, oh yeah, I kind of knew that was percolating away.

55:43Steph:You hadn't heard any whispers about it. I just hadn't heard any whispers.

55:45Kaley Cuoco:Exactly. So it's come as a complete surprise to me. There may be more knowledgeable people like James.

55:49Steph:Of course, James knew. James definitely knew.

55:51Sam Claflin:I have never even watched an episode of Dr. Foster. Although, actually, I think we reviewed... We must have. I think we reviewed the first episode of Series 2 on this podcast. But other than that, I'm not...

55:59Kaley Cuoco:Series 1 of Dr. Foster was fucking brilliant, right? You watched it. Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely phenomenal. And Series 2 was still... It was good, not quite. It was not quite because there was an intensity to Series 1. And the whole... Was her husband or not having this affair? And it was so clever. the clues and all of that. Anyway, Mike Bartlett wrote it and he's back written another five-part series with the original cast coming out, Saran Jones, Bertie Carvel, and Tom Taylor, who was their kid. He was a little boy back in the first and second series, and now he's all grown up. Anyway, the story is ten years on, Gemma Foster is now a GP, she's still a GP, she still lives in the same house, she's on the brink of a fresh start, she's met someone new and is getting married, but as the wedding day draws closer, and friends and family gather.

56:45Kaley Cuoco:Shadows from the past begin to re-emerge, threatening both her happiness and her reputation. So it sounds like they're going to queue up a whole new sense of kind... Because there was that queasy sense of doubt. You know, what's going on? Are you being paranoid? Are you being gassed? It was that kind of psychological thrill that I love. And they did it so well. Mark Bartlett wrote it so well. Both, I think, first and second series, particularly the first. So I'm really looking forward to... First series. All right. I'm really looking forward to this new series.

57:09Steph:I think that's one of those shows that the first series was so perfect yeah if it just

57:15Kaley Cuoco:it's hard to it's really hard

57:17Steph:and I'm not saying that the second series was okay but it was not the first series everybody was talking about that all the time I thought the ending

57:24Kaley Cuoco:was really clever though yeah remember the ending like it was all on that motorway cafe oh yeah yeah I thought it was really kind of tense but it wasn't the first

57:31Steph:it wasn't and you don't know because you didn't watch it at all

57:33Sam Claflin:no well I watched the first episode of series two I don't recall what I thought of it but I didn't carry on watching it so fine

57:39Kaley Cuoco:there you go Anyway, that's breaking news today, James. You know what else is coming back, Boydie? What? Robin Hood.

57:46Sam Claflin:Oh, I know.

57:47Steph:That's my... I was going to say Robin Hood. Oh, sorry, Steph. Tell us. What else is happening in the world? I literally was just going to... I literally was like, oh, Sean Bean's coming back. The Robin Hood thing's coming back. His modern twist on Robin Hood is coming back, which is very exciting.

57:58Sam Claflin:Did you watch Robin Hood?

57:58Kaley Cuoco:Is it exciting?

57:59Steph:Well, people like it. I mean, I'm not... It was fine.

58:03Kaley Cuoco:It was fine.

58:04Sam Claflin:We didn't love it.

58:06Kaley Cuoco:We are so...

58:06Steph:I don't know whether I like any kind of Robin Hood.

58:09Kaley Cuoco:Oh, girls, it's the new... You haven't opened your heart to the show with Bandit, is this what you're saying?

58:12Steph:I'm just trying to think.

58:13Kaley Cuoco:You don't like a Bandit show either.

58:15Steph:No, I do, but I just don't know whether...

58:16Kaley Cuoco:The post-apocalyptic version of Robin Hood

58:17Sam Claflin:would be your absolute... Do you like Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, the Kevin Costner film?

58:21Steph:Yes, but I think I like it because of the time it was in, I was in the time when you went to the cinema. I went to the cinema to watch it and I liked it. And I like Kevin Costner, so yeah. So maybe that's the only thing. And actually, I like the cartoons. No, actually, I'm... With the Fox? No. Yeah, with the Fox. Oh, God. God, actually, I'm really into Robin Hood. So, yeah, I don't know. So, anyway, it's coming back. It's reimagining of Robin Hood. It's previously been described as epic. So, some people are excited.

58:49Sam Claflin:Some people are indeed excited. Yeah.

58:51Steph:Do you know what else? Somebody mentioned on Planet Plus about For All Mankind. Yes. Didn't they? And that's coming back Friday, March 27th.

58:57Sam Claflin:And they put a trailer out. Yes, very exciting. See, the episodes are available. I've not watched them yet because Broadchurch is consuming my every waking moment. Oh, God.

59:04Kaley Cuoco:Not because of Broadchurch. I haven't had time to watch. I can't watch it. But I'm excited to watch it.

59:08Sam Claflin:and the trailer made me more excited to watch it, except, and people have pointed this out to me as well, but I did think this when I saw it, this is shaping up to be an origin story for The Expanse. Like, genuinely, it feels like this is like an Expanse critical series. We're going to find out that that is literally what's happened here, because at this point, it's like Mars is almost breaking away from Earth. It's like a rogue colony, and there's friction between Earth and Mars. So it does feel like this will, in a few hundred years, be The Expanse.

59:33Steph:Okay. Oh, do you remember when you started watching music documentaries?

59:38Sam Claflin:I watched the Counting Crows one, yes.

59:39Steph:Yeah, well, there's going to be a new Iron Maiden documentary.

59:44Sam Claflin:Oh my God.

59:44Steph:Oh, no, do you know what? It's a film. It's a film. Forget I said it. Forget I said it.

59:49Sam Claflin:I never had you pegged as an Iron Maiden fan. No, you completely stunned me with that story.

59:55Steph:I literally could not give a shit about Iron Maiden, but I know that some people do. So, yeah. Oh, no, I don't like rock.

1:00:03Sam Claflin:Like rock? You shock me.

1:00:04Kaley Cuoco:It's not rock, it's heavy metal, isn't it?

1:00:06Sam Claflin:It's like rock is... A good time for me to point out that Bruce Dickinson, the singer from Iron Maiden, used to teach fencing at my school. It's a perfect time. Oh my God, that is brilliant. Wait a minute, before or after he was a rock? After, as in while, during, yes. Why isn't it rock? He's a fencer and he taught me fencing at high school.

1:00:25Kaley Cuoco:You said I don't like rock. I'm just saying rock encompasses a gigantic array of popular music, right? It's like rock and pop, whereas heavy metal, which is specifically the genre within rock, I believe that Iron Maiden are described as is more accurate.

1:00:38Steph:I would say rock is like you know that.

1:00:41Sam Claflin:That's exactly what rock is. I mean.

1:00:43Steph:Right. And that's what Iron Maiden do, don't they?

1:00:45Sam Claflin:I see. All of that. Steph, have you ever considered moving from Heat to like Mojo, for example, and becoming a music journalist?

1:00:54Kaley Cuoco:You might want to think about an egg guitar competition. Listen, viewers, if you've watched her, going... Yeah.

1:01:03Sam Claflin:but you're playing an air guitar as if it's some kind of mandolin I have concerns over your technique

1:01:08Kaley Cuoco:yeah it's an air mandolin

1:01:10Steph:but there actually is a competition an air guitar competition isn't there we're entering you for it so sorry so that's a heavy metal you would say that's heavy metal I feel like I should know this okay right heavy metal anyway it's a film we shouldn't even talk about it it's a film sorry

1:01:27Kaley Cuoco:but what we could be talking about is that Amy Lou Wood is going to star in Jane Eyre, a new version of that story from working title people. So, yeah. After, I was reading the variety version of this story. It says, following the success of Emerald Fennell's body-stripping take on Wuthering Heights. I mean, that was a film. I feel like they've gone down the same kind of problem that we often do on this podcast. We've ended up talking about films. It's actually the story's about a TV show. But anyway, I mean, Amy Leweyden is obviously going to be worth watching. it's also written by Miriam Bataille or something how do you pronounce that who works on Succession apparently so that's a pretty good line up

1:02:08Steph:okay there's a trailer for Madison which is yet another another Yellowstone spin off The Madison

1:02:14Sam Claflin:God help us

1:02:15Steph:The Madison yes but we do love Michelle Fyver and Kurt Russell so you know That could be... You'll definitely like that.

1:02:24Sam Claflin:Well, sure. Sure. We'll get on to all things Yellowstone when we review Marshalls. But yes, that is another one that is coming.

1:02:31Kaley Cuoco:In a couple of hours' time.

1:02:32Sam Claflin:In a couple of hours' time when we get to the review section. That's absolutely right. Ryan Coogler has cast Danielle Deadwiler as the lead in the new X-Files reboot, which is exciting.

1:02:41Kaley Cuoco:Danielle Deadwiler is in this Steve Carell show coming soon, which we'll hopefully be reviewing. Rooster. Reviewing, yes. Rooster. Have you watched any of it yet? I haven't yet. I think we'll end up doing it next week. weren't we? Yes, there you go. She's having a good time. That's what I'm saying.

1:02:54Steph:Oh, okay.

1:02:55Sam Claflin:Winona Ryder has joined the cast

1:02:56Kaley Cuoco:of Wednesday Season 3. Which is incredibly star-studded, isn't it, Wednesday these days? It's got like, you know, an array.

1:03:04Sam Claflin:I don't understand Wednesday. No, me neither. And yes, not just because it's the middle of the week, but because the show is fine. I don't understand why it's as big a hit as it is.

1:03:13Steph:But we talked about this before. It's because all the tweens are watching it, aren't they?

1:03:17Sam Claflin:That is presumably the reason. Yeah.

1:03:18Steph:it is very enjoyable to them it's very enjoyable to those lovely young people yeah I can understand it and it's funny I mean it's okay it's not meant for you

1:03:30Sam Claflin:no it's probably not it's not meant for you what else have we got well Ed Skrein has been cast as Baldr in the God of War TV series I have to say that is great casting he's got big Baldr energy to me that's probably not a compliment Ed Skrein I keep thinking you're saying Baldrick No, he does not have big Baldrick energy, but he does have a cunning plan. I'd like to see him as Baldrick. Yes. No, he's going to be the god Baldr in God of War, which is a B-A-L-D-U-R. D-U-R, okay. Yes, one of the Norse gods. You are baldder than I am. No, he has a full head of hair. Oh, okay. He does. Yes, but he's an interesting antagonistic character.

1:04:11Steph:Oh, he's very nice. He looks, yeah, he looks like... He's very nice. No, he looks nice.

1:04:15Sam Claflin:He's Dario Naharis 1.0. from Game of Thrones before he was replaced by Michael Hussman.

1:04:21Kaley Cuoco:Yeah, yeah, which is controversial.

1:04:23Sam Claflin:Yes. What else has happened? We should mention that very sadly, Eric Dane of Grey's Anatomy did in fact die of ALS this week, Lou Gehrig's disease. Incredibly sad. And he was only 53 years old.

1:04:37Steph:Yeah, it's so sad. So, so sad. And also Patrick Dempsey has come out and said that he had planned to reunite with him on his new show before his death. So his new show Memory of a Killer.

1:04:47Sam Claflin:which is so sad it's horrible he is sad obviously best known I guess for playing McSteamy Dr. Mark Sloan in Grey's Anatomy but he was in I think he was in X-Men The Last Stand as well he's been in a whole bunch of things and he was in Bad Boys Ride or Die quite recently as well but yeah very very sad indeed and he put a there was a very emotional video that was doing the rounds on social media where he was delivering a message to his kids when he was in the final stages of his disease

1:05:11Steph:famous last words it was yeah it's just it's incredibly sad and awful.

1:05:19Sam Claflin:Yes, indeed it is. Right, I think we'll end news there and we will move into this week's reviews. And first up this week, we have Marshalls on Paramount+. This is, in fact, the first of three, yes, three Yellowstone spin-offs to drop this year with, as Steph mentioned earlier, the Madison following in just a week or so. This picks up with Luke Grimes' character, Case Dutton, who Yellowstoners will be very familiar with, and he abandons ranch work here to join the US Marshalls Service and hunt down ne 'er-do-wells each week. And if this sounds a lot less like your traditional Taylor Sheridan serial and more like a network procedural, that's because that's exactly what it is.

1:05:54Sam Claflin:This is a CBS show, Sheridan's first network show, I believe, and not even really a Sheridan show because he doesn't write it either. So it's basically a CBS cop procedural with added Stetsons and badged with the Yellowstone brand. In fact, it was called Why Marshals for a while, but then that makes it sound a little bit, you know... Why Marshals. Why Marshals. Why Marshals. But yes, can this live up to the Yellowstone brand? That is the question. Steph, are you a Yellowstoner?

1:06:21Steph:I have watched Yellowstone in... It's not quite recovery TV for me, but I watched it kind of like it was on... Because my husband watches it. And so I'd watch it a bit in the background. So I wouldn't say I was... I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it. It was just on. Do you know those kinds of shows? I've seen it. I wouldn't... It's no Watson, is what you're saying. It's no Watson. It's no... You know, I mean, it was fine. but I know people are really obsessed with Yellowstone they're real Yellowstoners for me it wasn't I don't know I didn't ever really get into it

1:06:53Sam Claflin:do you know who's a massive Yellowstone fan is it Kay Captain Catherine Janeway when I interviewed Kate Mulgrew she was telling me how much she loves Yellowstone oh now I just feel bad yeah she should

1:07:03Steph:okay are you a Yellowstone fan no okay are you a Yellowstone fan no oh this

1:07:08Sam Claflin:yeah I must admit I very much enjoy Taylor Sheridan's

1:07:12Kaley Cuoco:stuff it's mystifying as to why we're reviewing this show considering it's a procedural, it's a spin-off from a show none of us particularly like and there's plenty of other good things we could have done instead. Okay. Boy, it is low-key furious about this.

1:07:23Steph:I am, what I will say, what I will say is, to your point, this is a CBS procedural police drama, okay? And it absolutely is. And can it stand alone as that? It's like what you'd expect if you like those kinds of things, which again, very comforting television. I can, I enjoyed it in as much as you can enjoy a CBS procedural. See, I think, but hang on, this is your kind of TV. No, no. But you are, you like a police procedural, don't you? I do, I do like a police, so what I'm saying is I did enjoy it, but because I'm not a massive Yellowstone fan. Do you need to be?

1:08:02Sam Claflin:You don't know, right? I don't think you need any Yellowstone knowledge for this.

1:08:04Steph:Which is why I could enjoy it, but they do reference Yellowstone things, and I had to like go, oh God, yeah, oh, his wife died here, and why has he got this thing with his son and all of that kind of stuff. And you do have to know a bit of background of why, you know, why he's a marshal, when his family were these ranch owners, and what is, you know, what's the jeopardy for him.

1:08:23Kaley Cuoco:You only need to know if you really care. I don't care.

1:08:25Steph:Well, yeah, but that's the thing. You guys don't care. I think my point is that you can watch this without having watched Yellowstone. Yes. That is my point.

1:08:32Kaley Cuoco:Oh, I thought you were making the opposite point. No, no, no. I'm saying you can watch this. You can Wikipedia what happens in Yellowstone

1:08:36Steph:and you can watch this. Don't even need to do that. And it can stand alone as just an absolutely fine police procedural. but my other point is is there are lots of other much better these procedures that you should watch instead of this would you say that's a fair point Boyd Helm

1:08:52Kaley Cuoco:yeah do you know what I was absolutely furious that we were you still are

1:08:57Steph:you're so angry

1:08:58Kaley Cuoco:you are furious good stuff coming I mean a lot of it is embargoed to be fair to James but we somehow ended up doing it and I was like oh god you know I don't do any I don't watch Yellowstone I've watched you know bits of Yellowstone from time to time yes they're like me to keep track of popular culture. And it's a huge, gigantic success. I mean, it's been one of the TV stories of the last decade or so, which is why there's a constant stream of spin-offs from the factory that puts out this stuff. So I was absolutely dreading it. But you know what? It's a lot better than I expected, I would say.

1:09:30Kaley Cuoco:Just purely in terms of, like, technically, you expect a, these days, a prime-time procedural show, which are the biggest, but let's face it, the biggest shows on American TV apart from events like the Super Bowl, etc. are police procedurals, or at least this type of thing. This is the type of thing that keeps CBS and other networks going. They're hardly any comedies anymore, but they're still churning out spinoffs and spinoffs from this kind of show and CSIs and NCISs. All of these things are still going absolutely strong, right? And they're all very generic, and that's why they do well, because they are your kind of recovery show.

1:10:08Kaley Cuoco:If you've got tonsillitis, then you're going to sit down and watch the episode of this. But what I thought was interesting about this is it's very technically well made. You know, there's action sequences that are really well done, really well directed, I thought. James' eyebrows are really in range. You got the eyebrow. Okay, well, you know, technical things, James always takes the lead. It's probably spotted some kind of... An LED volume now. CGI air volume. And, you know, there's fighting and there's killing and murdering. I thought it was all very well done. I think we've reached... It's kind of like the nature of Peak TV, isn't it?

1:10:40Kaley Cuoco:Peak TV is so, which this is not an example, of course. No, it's not. Peak TV is so technically adept and cinematic, et cetera, which is why we do this fucking podcast, that even the procedurals now, they're definitely not on that level, you know, in terms of the writing and the acting, et cetera. I thought the kid, the son wasn't a very good actor. Anyway, sorry.

1:10:59Steph:Can't believe you singled him out, meaning. Well, he's an adult, probably.

1:11:04Kaley Cuoco:So, bottom line, technically, I thought it was better. You know, it was perfectly fine. but there's absolutely no way I'm going to ever watch any of it ever again but in and of itself I thought it was you know it was well done is what I would say

1:11:16Steph:I am I feel completely opposite I think any individual episode of NCIS or CSI is better than this

1:11:24Kaley Cuoco:oh okay okay fine so I I mean to be fair I haven't watched an episode of any of those shows right well there you go because they are

1:11:30Steph:I would say they are technically very proficient and so that's what I was disappointed because I was like you can't that's why I'm saying you can watch this but you should watch CSI Miami or watch something like that because they're better. Oh, okay. So I think, I don't really understand why they've chosen, I think it's because he's one of the most beloved characters, isn't he? I love the way you're asking me. So I think that's why they've decided to do this but there are better, there are so much better police procedures than this and they don't, I don't know, there's no room for it. I don't see what the point is when you can watch CSI.

1:12:03Sam Claflin:It's also an odd thing to do. That's what I mean, it's odd. To get this kind of dynastic peak TV serialized sort of like, because all of these shows, you know, you've got the one with Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren, you know, I got the Michelle Pfeiffer one. I watched all of Yellowstone 1883, which was fantastic. You know, they all feel very epic and prestige and premium. And then this is a random network procedural. And it seems like such an odd extension of that universe. I agree. And when I said we should review this, I'll be honest with you, I hadn't really, I didn't realize that's what it was.

1:12:29Sam Claflin:I thought it was like a proper Yellowstone spinoff, like prestige type thing. This is, he's so angry.

1:12:35Steph:He is furious. In our text group,

1:12:36Kaley Cuoco:I was literally going to, when you first, I was going to, you do realise this is a police procedure boring thing. And I didn't, for some reason, I couldn't be bothered, I was busy, I couldn't argue.

1:12:44Sam Claflin:It's on you then, isn't it? I didn't know. And when I watched it, I was profoundly disappointed when I was like, oh, this is, this is one of those. And the only thing it has really going for it, I guess is two things. One is, the location shooting is stunning. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, it's beautiful. The vistas are gorgeous. Like, It makes the absolute most of that American landscape and the big nature, which I thought was great.

1:13:09Steph:Yeah, but you can get that elsewhere. You can get that in Landman. Sure, sure. You're not going to get that elsewhere.

1:13:12Kaley Cuoco:What? In where?

1:13:13Steph:Like Landman. What if we're on Taylor Sheridan? Do you know what I mean? You can.

1:13:15Sam Claflin:But you're not going to get it in CSI Miami, are you?

1:13:17Steph:No, but you can't.

1:13:18Sam Claflin:Which, crucially, is not shot in Miami, I know, because I've been on set.

1:13:20Steph:I was saying, if that's one of the redeeming features of it, you can get that elsewhere with a better storyline.

1:13:25Sam Claflin:Yes. And I'm with Steph, actually. I think this is a substandard procedural. I think it looks beautiful, and I think the connection... Oh, I was just talking about how it looks, really.

1:13:34Kaley Cuoco:I mean, the script and the dialogue is acting as shit.

1:13:37Sam Claflin:Yeah, it's not good. And I thought the story, this is just nonsense. Oh, completely. I wasn't really talking about that, yeah. It was so, I was so disinterested and so bored by it. And look, I don't like procedurals, that's absolutely true. I don't like, I don't, I mean, I don't like, you know, this kind of episodic television generally, but I, so it's not really my thing. But even though I don't think this is a great example of the genre, I think, you know, for people who, like Yellowstone completionists, like completionists, like people who can't get enough Yellowstone... Completionists? Is that a word?

1:14:04Sam Claflin:It is now. I don't know. We're going to need another crunch on that. It's a completist, but yeah. I'm going to own completionist. I'm going to take that one. I'm going to make sure it's happened at some point here. After my earlier grammatical stumblings. If you are a Yellowstone completist, if you want to get more Dutton in your veins, I guess this is a way to do it. Because apparently, and this is absolutely true, rumours suggest the series will finally address the wolf visions that Case experienced in Yellowstone Season 4. So you've got that to look forward to. But really, there's just no reason to watch this.

1:14:40Kaley Cuoco:This will be a massive hit, I guarantee. Oh, probably. To your point, when you said, you know, I can't, what is such a weird thing, I think it's a completely obvious thing to do. If you're creating spin-offs from this gigantic IP that was Yellowstone, you're obviously going to try and do one that is a procedural. You might as well, you've done all the other different things. So I bet it'll be a massive hit on CBS.

1:14:58Steph:I'm sure it will be a massive hit. It's just, I want people to watch other things. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, of course.

1:15:04Sam Claflin:It's been reasonably well received, I believe. It has, yeah. Yeah. But, yes, it's not for me. No.

1:15:10Steph:God, we're all in agreeance. Yeah.

1:15:13Sam Claflin:Now I know why they didn't call it Why Marshalls? Because the answer would have been, yeah, right, why. Oh. There we go, claws out. Anyway, Marshalls then, which lands on Paramount Plus, I believe, on the 2nd of March. Correct. Yes. Next up this week, we have Young Sherlock on Prime Video. The Sherlockian origin story, based on the book series by Andy Lane, and it sees Hero finds Tiffin as the famous detective who, at Oxford, teams up with his new bezzy mate, one James Moriarty, played by Donal Finn, a.k.a. the Wheel of Time's Matt Cawthon, to solve crimes. Of course. Clearly what he's first known for.

1:15:53Sam Claflin:It starts with loud music and a chase, which I believe is the obligatory PSA that Guy Ritchie is involved in this one. Boydie, what did your investigation turn up on this? Well.

1:16:04Kaley Cuoco:Ooh.

1:16:06Steph:I don't know. I thought, I'm excited.

1:16:10Kaley Cuoco:Yeah, I think this is interesting, isn't it? Because as I said before, when you were talking about, what's it called, that elementary? No, elementary was the early one. Watson. That's what I'm talking about. It's so confusing because there have been so many. It's out of copyright and anyone can have a buy-in. Everyone and anyone has a go. so there are so many spin-offs from and adaptions of Sherlock and associated characters that to have, I guess there's a point in having this one which is like a YA take on it, so Sherlock is at Oxford University, dragged there by his brother Mycroft and of course he also meets Moriarty at the same time who by the way, as you say, Donald Finn I thought, was it just me or was he slightly trying to challenge Andrew Scott's version of Moriarty from Sherlock?

1:16:53Kaley Cuoco:because an Irish actor kind of just similar intonation that was maybe just me maybe being slightly unfair You can't challenge Andrew Scott's version No, of course not Well I feel this way to be honest I feel this way about the whole show The problem for me I don't know obviously Guy Ritchie did his Sherlock Holmes film He did Good I think actually I think the first Sherlock Holmes film is one of the best things Guy Ritchie's ever done

1:17:12Steph:Oh my god Robert Townie Jr is unbelievable He's a great Sherlock

1:17:15Kaley Cuoco:Very well cast Captured the spirit of the show but then you had obviously the BBC Sherlock with Cumberbatch and Freeman etc character Stephen Moffat and it was just one of my favorite shows of all time so this has a lot to live up to not only the film which is good but also that and I felt like I have various problems with it one is in this introductory opening episode where they're kind of trying to establish Sherlock and all these other characters and how they fit into his world in this YA segment of his life, it takes ages from to get to any kind of mystery to solve. Way too long. You could have just completely dispensed with half of the first 40 minutes of the first episode to get to the fucking point of a case for Sherlock.

1:17:59Kaley Cuoco:And B, I'm not convinced that many of the cast are anywhere near good enough or charismatic enough. I don't know Hero finds Tiffin, I'm sorry mate, but I'm sure he doesn't listen to this podcast. He might. But I just thought he was not charismatic, slightly stilted, just I don't know, I didn't get at his casting. I think the strongest, I think Max Zaynes is good as Mycroft. Max Zaynes, I think, is genuinely a fun character. And Donald Finn is pretty good as Moriarty. Certainly much better as Moriarty than Hero Finds Tiffin as a shirt. But that was the main problem for me. And then it's, I mean, it's nice, again, you know, it looks great.

1:18:36Kaley Cuoco:It looks good. Good to slash great. I'm not sure, you know, and he uses Oxford quite well. What looks like Oxford, they probably filmed it down the road in Luton.

1:18:44Steph:He uses Oxford quite well. do you think

1:18:48Sam Claflin:Boydie that the problem with this partially is that Gatiss and Moffat Sherlock exists

1:18:53Kaley Cuoco:I mean that was eventually absolutely 100 % is part of the problem because this isn't a procedural version of Sherlock which Elementary and Watson are so they've got that they're not even trying to be like Sherlock like Mark Gatiss and Stephen Moffat Sherlock so and Steve Thompson who wrote some of the best episodes by the way of Sherlock he was not the other writer of that show but the performances are so and I'm going to use the word iconic, but if there's anything deserves to be called iconic, it is those two, Freeman and Cumberbatch. And of course, Andrew Scott, it made Andrew Scott an instant, massive superstar because he was so brilliant as Moriarty.

1:19:28Kaley Cuoco:This just feels like weak soup. Weak soup? Is that a thing?

1:19:35Steph:Weak sauce is a thing. Can it be weak soup? No, weak soup. You can have weak soup. If you can have completionists, you can have weak soup. That's your one. Right. I think if you are going to, yeah, copyright aside, if you're going to endeavour to make something like this, make something else, you better be damn sure that it's going to be so much better than something that's already around, okay? Because otherwise...

1:19:59Kaley Cuoco:Or it's a different take, something special. Because it is a different take. They've made sure that it's a different take. They've done the one thing.

1:20:05Steph:It is the different take. But the different... You do have to think, right, okay. I mean, I don't know anyone who doesn't like those versions, okay? So I really did not like this at all. I thought it was amalgamation of completely unnotable performances. I started to... Unnotable. That's not a word, is it?

1:20:28Sam Claflin:I think we're all challenging grammar and vocabulary. I don't know what is happening this week. I really don't.

1:20:32Steph:Sorry, not noteworthy. It's impossible. None of the performances were noteworthy, put it that way. No, you're right. So much so that I started to not really realise who was I was watching. and it was like, oh, who is that? I think when you watch, the thing for me, when I'm watching something like this, I was like, oh, who are they going to make Moriarty? Who are they going to make Watson? That's the thing that was interesting. I enjoyed it so much less than I did watching Watson, the medical drama of it. That was an indictment. Yeah, I just, okay, they use the, do you remember when we coined the whole smash card things?

1:21:01Steph:Oh yes, smash cards. Smash cards have returned to little to no effect. I just, the story was so hard to follow and then I also just didn't give a shit about it. You know what I mean? It's too long to establish who's who. It's not funny, witty, he's not clever enough.

1:21:21Kaley Cuoco:The best person in it was Colin Firth. I agree. He's quite big on the poster. It feels like it's kind of just a cameo. It does feel like a cameo. It's a small role. But he is so fun, instantly, much more fun than everyone else and much more charismatic than everyone else that it's like, oh, you just want more of him.

1:21:37Steph:There's no charisma is key. There's no charisma. There's no fun. It's not witty. it's not it's not clever I just oh god I really didn't like it at all I found it I think it's a really good point that you make about how long it takes to get to them actually solving the mystery and the mystery's fucking boring anyway like no give us a shit about fucking whatever the mystery I won't give the mystery away but no one cares about it do they so it's like

1:22:00Sam Claflin:that is I do think the pacing is the problem here because it takes so long to get anywhere and by the time like you could eject all of that stuff how it begins the prison sequence how he gets to Oxford nobody cares about any of that and maybe it's just that they're in the books and they felt the need to include it but it's just like just get to the point because 20 minutes in you just you don't know why you're watching it you don't know what the purpose is there's a really I watched Good Will Hunting on the weekend and I'm like this is basically a scene from Good Will Hunting like what are you doing where he's the janitor but hey he's smarter than the students and it's just like it's quite dull and then suddenly he gets wrapped oh great a mystery and it's Moriarty and Sherlock solving a mystery and once it happened I was more interested so I didn't dislike it as much as you did, Steph.

1:22:41Sam Claflin:I thought once it got going, I thought, okay, now I know why I'm here. This is actually okay. But even that runs out of steam. So it was just like, I mean, it could be that it takes a while to get going in this first episode, as is often the case with scene-selling ones. It's a little uneven, but I will not find out. I'm more interested in the fact that you watched Good Will Hunting on the weekend in the middle of your broad shows.

1:23:01Kaley Cuoco:You're really up to date now.

1:23:03Sam Claflin:I found time to watch Good Will Hunting as well. I had seen Good Will Hunting before, I should point out. It was not a first watch.

1:23:08Steph:there's this really good film called Shawshank Redemption you should watch that thank you Steph that's a good recommendation

1:23:14Sam Claflin:yes yes yes is it one of your favourite films already it is I love Good Will I'll be fair to you it's one of my favourite films how about them apples indeed indeed well how about these apples I'm saying absolutely not weak apples we don't want it to number

1:23:27Kaley Cuoco:I can't believe

1:23:28Steph:we're agreeing again on something oh wow

1:23:32Sam Claflin:it's offensive yeah this show was weak soup there's no denying it young Sherlock then which is on Prime Video.

1:23:40Kaley Cuoco:Hold on. Wednesday, the 4th of March, 2026. Fabulous.

1:23:45Sam Claflin:Finally this week, we have DTF St. Louis, a show that is being billed as a dark comedy. And this stars Jason Bateman and David Harbour as a pair of suburban husbands who decide to spice up their midlife slumps by signing up to the titular dating app for married people, DTF St. Louis, only for one of them to end up dead. And who do you call when you need to get into the mind of a killer and solve a murder? why Steph Sealand, of course. What did you think of DTF St. Louis? Please notice that I didn't ask if you were DTF with this, which would have been, you know, frankly, an HR issue. So that's why I avoided that.

1:24:20Steph:I will say I was very much DTF with this. This is right up my street, a kind of a dark mystery. One of the things, I also have to hold my hands up and say, I will watch anything with Jason Bateman because I am a huge Jason Bateman fan. And I think he has this unbelievable quality of being able to be Jason Bateman, always in everything, but playing such crazy different characters. Like, did you watch, you know in White Rabbit, he's like a crazy different character. But he's always still Jason Bateman. Does that make sense? He's a comedian and not a chameleon.

1:24:59Sam Claflin:I know what you're saying, that he does play a variety of different genres and roles, because he is an actor, that's fine. but there is a Bateman-iness that he always retains. There's a core of Bateman-osity. Yeah.

1:25:10Steph:I don't know whether it's his, you know, his speech pattern or what it is because he's got quite a distinctive voice but he's also, just like saying, every single role, I have not seen anything with Jason Bateman in that I haven't really, really enjoyed. I think he picks, he picks, he makes excellent choices and this is no exception. So...

1:25:29Kaley Cuoco:Do you think he's lost too much weight though? He looks very scrawny in this. Do you think?

1:25:33Steph:Oh, I think that's part of his character though isn't it

1:25:35Kaley Cuoco:yeah I guess so maybe carry on

1:25:37Steph:I think it's part of his character is you know this sunny so he plays this weatherman this sunny weatherman David Harbour is the you know this is not a spoiler this is just the set up so he is the sign language person is that the right is that the right way to say it yeah he's the sign interpreter he is the sign interpreter they are caught in a huge storm together and they're sort of brought together and they become friends and then what then happens is as we said we're not going to give it away but someone someone ends up dead and there is a love triangle in it but for me the absolute hero and just she's so amazing in this is linda cardellini of er a wonderful actress who i don't think gets enough plaudits um if you know her you'll know her you'll know her from er she's in lots of stuff she's so brilliant in this show as this kind of it's got this like seedy underbelly of like gross awful things that can happen in these these these small towns and just her sort of awakening um in amongst it is so incredible to watch and she plays it brilliantly um so i love i think she almost has overtaken my love of jason bateman in this performance but david harbour again is brilliant there's a an amazing scene again i'm not giving anything away where he at some point has to take up hip-hop dancing and it's got these little injections of comedy that are really pleasing but it is dark they do play it like where almost every scene is kind of it hits with a dramatic uh like a bit of dramatic a real dramatic scene and it always feels like it could every scene could be the end of the episode but it's dark and i really really enjoyed it we did get a list of things not to say about spoiling it so i'm

1:27:18Kaley Cuoco:going to be really careful you basically can't say anything you basically can't say anything about it

1:27:21Steph:but if you love Jason Bateman, definitely watch it. If you love any kind of murder mystery, definitely watch it. It's absolutely fantastic.

1:27:29Sam Claflin:Would you describe it as a dark comedy?

1:27:32Steph:Yes, it's exactly a dark comedy.

1:27:34Sam Claflin:I didn't find it darkly comedic. Didn't you? I'd call it like a dark mystery, but I was waiting for the jokes. And I'm not sure that maybe it's just contractually that when you cast Jason Bateman, it's automatically then a comedy of some kind because he's in it. but it's not I mean I don't think I detected a joke let alone I know what you mean

1:27:53Kaley Cuoco:I know what you mean I was expecting it to be more comedic than it actually is and I think it's so you don't get there are comedies which don't rely on jokes so to speak but at least funny moments comedic tonally comedic moments and there are moments mostly I think I think most of the comedy actually comes from Richard Jenkins' character the detective who has this kind of the bumbling detective he's a bit bumbling but actually he's kind of maybe quite clever, but he definitely has a kind of like an oddball approach. Well, he's the OK boomer detective. Yeah, and Richard Jenkins is, I think he's the star of the show, actually.

1:28:29Kaley Cuoco:You think he's better than Indy Colour? I do, I do. Because he hasn't, there's a Richard Jenkins-esque quality to all his roles as well. You could say the same about him. But I think he's got the most, I think he's got the best written, most interesting role. And I have issues with this show, I have to say. Really? Yeah. I think it's massively flawed in various ways. So, for example, there's some weird things. Like, for example, when Jason Bateman, Jason Bateman's character, the weatherman, does not involve his lawyer in anything that happens. Doesn't seem to have a lawyer. He's a nationally famous weatherman.

1:29:07Kaley Cuoco:He's got a gigantic poster of himself on the side of a building where they live. And that's insane.

1:29:13Steph:That's a whole part of his character. He's got this rural innocence. he's a rural weatherman he's not like he's not like an international weatherman it's not that rural

1:29:21Kaley Cuoco:it's a city it's a town it's not that rural

1:29:23Steph:everything that happens in this takes him by surprise and that's his innocence

1:29:26Kaley Cuoco:this show really annoyed me to start with I think every scene went on too long I think there's pacing issues there's one moment right where two characters go to this juice place Jumba Juice Jumba Juice right and this is summed up this show I think it's in episode 2 I watched the first 3 episodes me too and there's a slow pan across Jumbo Juice, like the shop, the store, and it just goes on for about like 30 seconds. I'm like, just cut to fucking they're in Jumbo Juice. Why do you need, there's something that stylistically, it's almost, this show, there's something interesting about, and I think part of the reason why it doesn't seem like a comedy is, it's so beautifully shot.

1:30:06Kaley Cuoco:It is absolutely, do you remember that flashback bit with David Harbour and the guy in the street in The Road? Have you seen that bit? I think it's in episode two, actually, sorry. That is beautiful. But it's literally like golden sunlit. Silhouetted. Silhouetted, stunning, stunning images. The police station where the interrogations take place, there's this weird, concrete, beautiful, modernist thing that could stray out of the Brutalist or something. Every shot is stunning. This is supposed to be like a comedy. That's partly why I think the dark comedy element of it falls flat because it's a bit ponderous because it's kind of a bit in love with its own beauty.

1:30:41Kaley Cuoco:And I do find, I've got a bit of an issue with comedies. this isn't a flower comedy at all as James says I agree but you do get shows that have a little bit of a comedienne to it being so stunning sometimes it doesn't mean things are too beautiful and I felt that about this like more attention has been given to the design of it and the cinematography of it as opposed to the kind of pace and I thought it was like I think this show is a bit White Lotus-y it's a bit like suburban sex games White Lotus-y but think how brilliant White Lotus is with its pacing even when it's introducing characters it still manages to keep you absolutely gripped but do you know what happened though?

1:31:20Kaley Cuoco:In episode two when Richard Jenkins gets really into gear I thought he was so good and it really picked up for me and by the end of episode two I had to carry on watching more and I've only watched episode three and it gets better and better so I think I'm actually I'm pretty much fully on board now but it is

1:31:36Steph:You've got a full reverse ferret on this whole thing

1:31:37Kaley Cuoco:I think people are going to have an issue I think the first episode is too slow and just too in love with itself. And I want it to get to the point. And when it does get to the point, it's good.

1:31:46Steph:I think the drawn-out scenes, I know what you're saying, the drawn-out scenes are part of it because the whole part of it is that you're being drawn into this story. I, again, and I know I've talked about this before, for me, that pacing is very much integral to the show.

1:32:01Kaley Cuoco:Yeah, it just didn't work for me. I thought it was too much.

1:32:03Steph:But then it did work for you because you said you watched it. No, it was a show in the end,

1:32:05Kaley Cuoco:but I think people might not tune in for episode two. We're running out of time. We have run out of time, in fact.

1:32:12Sam Claflin:I didn't love it for a lot of the reasons that Boyd said. I didn't dislike it, and I was interested because they're great characters, but I wasn't hugely compelled by that first episode. I didn't watch any more after that, which may be how other people land on it. But that is all we've got time for this week. So, what else is out this week? Very, very quickly. We've mentioned some of it. The Capture is out on Sunday, which is series, God, three of that, I think. Gone is out on ITV, also on Sunday. We will, I think, tackle that next week. Outlander is back for Series 8 on Saturday. Ted is back, unfortunately, for Series 2 on Friday.

1:32:49Sam Claflin:What is it? Vladimir, which we're going to be doing on Pilot Plus. That is landing on Netflix on... Thursday. Thursday as well. And that is more or less it, I would say. What is our pick of the week?

1:33:00Steph:DTF, St. Louis.

1:33:01Sam Claflin:I mean, it is DTF. Stick with it, people. Yeah. I mean, it's Slim Pickings, isn't it? So, yes, brilliant. We hope you enjoyed the show. I don't know how we happened any of this, if I'm honest with you, because it's all gone a little bit off the rails. We ran over quite badly. But we hope you liked it. Please leave us a five-star rating. We will be back next week. Many, many, many more shows are happening next week, including Gone, Rooster, as we mentioned with Steve Carell, is coming. One Piece is coming back. We won't be reviewing that. I'm so sorry. Scarpetta lands on Prime, which is the Nicole Kidman adaptation, which is very interesting.

1:33:32Sam Claflin:And there's another Yellowstone show in the Madison. So who knows what we'll end up doing. But we hope you enjoyed the podcast. People are staring at me with evil in their eyes. Oh, this has been absolutely shambolic. Weak soup, everyone. Weak soup. No! See you Thursday. Pilot out.