Slow Horses, Wayward, and The Hack. With guests Ruth Bradley and Christopher Chung

5:18Christopher Chung:He refused to shake a hand?

5:19Ruth Bradley:No. I mean, that would be something. Instead, James, and I'm sure you'll not have a high opinion of this, when I went to interview him at this, it was a roundtable event, we're outside, it's a hot day, and he was there. He had his feet up on the table, crossed, in that very posturing... Yeah, exactly. He had it... But by the way, when Prue arrived, she went, put your feet down, and he did, like a little schoolboy had been told off. he kept his reflective aviator sunglasses on throughout the interview and in his breaks was flying a drone. I mean, I don't hold that necessarily. Hang on, in his breaks he was flying a drone?

5:53Ruth Bradley:I do think it says a lot about someone's personality type but the whole keeping the sunglasses on while being interviewed is...

6:00Christopher Chung:And then flying a drone around the tent.

6:02Ruth Bradley:Yeah, not around the... Look, how he spends his downtime is up to him but being unable to see the interviewee's eyes when you're interviewing them is very off-putting and more so when you can see yourself. So it puts you on the back foot.

6:17Christopher Chung:I think really now we've got to the nub of the issue, haven't we? Is it tactic? Was it your bad side? Is that the problem? He was on your left. Your bad side was reflected in the glasses.

6:26Ruth Bradley:Jane, we've all, especially during COVID, when you had to do occasionally those interviews with people who refuse to be on screen and have their cameras off. You know how off-putting that is when you can't see the person you're interviewing?

6:35Christopher Chung:What's more off-putting is when their camera's off but they don't realise it's off and you don't have the heart to tell them, which is what happened when I interviewed Patrick Stewart for season one of Picard and he was saying well if you look behind me and I'm like mmhmm

6:47Ruth Bradley:James you have to say something I couldn't I couldn't

6:49Christopher Chung:we were like 10 minutes into the interview and he clearly had just failed to turn on his camera but thought he had and I thought see there was an opportunity there was a brief window and I could have said Sir Pat Sir Pat your camera's not on you might need to sort that out but he got his wife to come in and set it all up and I didn't have the heart to tell him because I don't think he was capable of doing that on his own

7:05Ruth Bradley:Is his wife called Val? Because I would love that

7:08Christopher Chung:No, sadly not We need to check I know she's not called Val but yeah so that was that was slightly awkward because he was he was showing me showing me something that was on the wall behind him I was like oh yeah that's fascinating oh yeah I totally see what you mean what the fuck is happening oh god

7:23Ruth Bradley:you should have just said oh I think that's a bit of a technical can you switch your camera on and off again because I think I mean I could have done

7:28Christopher Chung:but the thing was the worst part was I was very aware during that whole interview then that I was on camera but he was so he could see I was very aware that he was looking at me but I could not see him at all to be fair

7:39Ruth Bradley:kind of a reflection of himself

7:40Christopher Chung:Yeah, very much so. It was very, very strange. The only person I've ever interviewed who didn't turn the camera on deliberately, and I was warned they would not turn the camera on, was...

7:49Ruth Bradley:Oh, yeah, I've forgotten.

7:51Christopher Chung:Jerry Seinfeld.

7:52Ruth Bradley:Oh, yeah.

7:53Christopher Chung:He refused to turn on the camera.

7:54Ruth Bradley:That's such a shame as well, because you're such a big fan.

7:56Christopher Chung:I was pretty warned. It was fine. Did you not turn your camera on as well? Just for parity? I think I did turn it on. Yeah, just to, you know, I don't know, just to give him... I think I have, I genuinely have, where I do my interviews on Zoom, at home I've got my shelf is behind me with various DVDs like you is it not where you do your podcasts yeah basically he's describing it

8:18Ruth Bradley:as if you've never seen it like I haven't spent

8:20Christopher Chung:hundreds of hours staring at it sorry one of the most prominent things on there if you really look is the Sirenfeld Boxer so like isn't it like an Alison Moyet vinyl or something I'm sure there's something like that in you no well that changes as to whether I'm playing on my record player I see but right now I think it's Kate Bush but yeah

8:36Ruth Bradley:so you wanted him to see it basically

8:37Christopher Chung:well no I was kind of I didn't know whether to turn on my camera or not to, it looked like I deliberately put, and I think he actually mentioned it, and I'm sure he's like, oh look, yeah, What I'm hearing is, it's very staged. No, no, no, I think he thought it was funny, it was funny and good, that I had that. But of course you can't tell, because you couldn't see his expression. No, he might have been rolling his eyes. He could have been smizing. That was the magical fortnight, I think it was, where I interviewed Jerry Sunfield, one minute, and then I also interviewed Larry David, and Larry David did have his camera on, thank God, and it was absolutely delightful.

9:06Ruth Bradley:And didn't he ask you to get in touch with your opinion about what you thought? And you never did? Oh, boy, day. Last opportunity.

9:11Christopher Chung:Did you think he didn't mean it? Yeah, kind of, you know. He was being as nice as Larry could possibly be.

9:16Ruth Bradley:It doesn't strike me that Larry would be the kind of guy who says something just for the sake of sake.

9:20Christopher Chung:That's a fair point. Yeah, but I think to some extent, I think he probably would. In a weird way. I don't know. It was... Do you have his personal email address? No, I don't. What I'm hearing is you've spurned Larry David. I would have had to email him going, Here I am with my opinion on your show. Hi, it's Stevie's Boyd Hilton. Exactly. No, you should totally do that. No, that would have been excruciating.

9:40Ruth Bradley:So, in conclusion, I've watched The Great Bishop.

9:44Christopher Chung:With Paul Hollywood.

9:45Ruth Bradley:With Paul Hollywood, dishing out handshakes.

9:47Christopher Chung:The Jerry Seinfeld of his generation.

9:49Ruth Bradley:But a lot of delicious creations on there. Never watch it if you haven't eaten your dinner, because you're going to feel pretty hungry. Lots of lovely creations, especially in Bread Week. I was a big fan of the Coomest Savourite.

10:03Christopher Chung:Every week is Bread Week.

10:04Ruth Bradley:Oh, I love Bread Week.

10:05Christopher Chung:well that's not true but well it is for me oh okay you said that it's literally the only thing you've been watching which is quite extraordinary thank you I mean isn't it like one hour an hour and a half of TV see what I'm hearing there is lazy and unprofessional that's what I'm hearing from Boyd that's you know it could be unbelievable I'm not surprised usually

10:22Ruth Bradley:I did watch something else hold something now it's gone out of my head oh okay see yeah

10:26Christopher Chung:effectively

10:26Ruth Bradley:of course you watched other stuff oh Sewing Bee Final the great British Sewing Bee very much focused on the great

10:32Christopher Chung:I needed some

10:33Ruth Bradley:yeah show

10:34Christopher Chung:reality I wanted some wholesome television.

10:37Ruth Bradley:And FYI, yes, I only watched two shows because I watched quite a lot for this podcast and other things. Pottery Throwdown? No, I wish it was on.

10:45Christopher Chung:Yeah, that's finished, didn't I? Why are they all great? I feel like the superlatives got out of control. I want to see the mid-British Bake Off. That's what I want to say.

10:52Ruth Bradley:Mediocre. Also, I'm very excited for the return of Portrait Artist of the Year. That's what I'm holding out for.

10:57Christopher Chung:The great Portrait Artist? You haven't watched it?

10:59Ruth Bradley:No, I haven't.

11:00Christopher Chung:Oh, no, okay.

11:01Ruth Bradley:Get off my back, Boyd. I've done a lot of watching. Yeah, Boyd. Yeah, really?

11:04Christopher Chung:Well, you haven't done that much watching. You've watched an hour and a half. Oh, okay.

11:08Ruth Bradley:Like, yeah, other outlets I'm writing for. I've watched a lot of TV. Oh, other outlets. And also this podcast, which requires at least, I don't know, solid seven hours. Yeah, anyway.

11:18Christopher Chung:Look, look, she's worn out and needs at least, what, two weeks off? Yeah, I can't wait. Oh, guys. Exactly. That's right. I am downing tools.

11:25Ruth Bradley:I'm switching off the television. And the far superior, Stephanie Celan, is sitting in the hot seat and dealing with you two. And I don't envy her one bit.

11:32Christopher Chung:But can we talk about this? So you're doing this thing that you did last year where you're doing a complete digital detox. Now, and for those of you listening who don't remember this, Kay did this last year but failed to mention the key pertinent piece of information, which is that she was having a digital detox. So I just thought, A, she had possibly died, or B, just hated me and was ignoring all my messages for a fortnight.

11:52Ruth Bradley:I mean, listen, you're not the only person who thought that. I actually had another friend who was like so concerned. I'd forgotten to tell her. And she was so concerned that she was contemplating getting in touch with another unconnected friend to her to check that I was not unwell.

12:06Christopher Chung:Are there any strange smells coming from Kay's flat?

12:09Ruth Bradley:No, it's all good. It's just for a week. I'm like, yeah, I'm downing tools. But, you know, just obviously pine for me silently. Yeah. And I shall not respond until I get back.

12:18Christopher Chung:Does that mean you're not allowed to watch stuff on your iPad or something?

12:21Ruth Bradley:Yeah, we've been through this.

12:22Christopher Chung:Can't watch anything. Can't take calls, can't text. So what are you going to do? Can't listen to your bullshit. Can't watch telly. So genuinely, what are you going to do? Yeah.

12:31Ruth Bradley:Not be with you guys. Meditate.

12:33Christopher Chung:Are you going to meditate?

12:35Ruth Bradley:I'm going to think about your multiple misdemeanors.

12:37Christopher Chung:I'm going to go through my burn book. It's all going to fester, isn't it? It's all going to fester. Kay's great book of grievances will get broken out.

12:43Ruth Bradley:I think it's going to be like that. No, I'm just going to rest. It's been a busy year. Look, it's my first year of freelance. I haven't switched off and it's just a chance to relax. So many Q &As. Oh, don't start that up again.

12:53Christopher Chung:Boyd's looking very rested though, I guess, because he'd had fewer Q &As. You're such. Oh my God.

12:58Ruth Bradley:I can't believe you did that. Boyd has had plenty of Q &As. It's all good. don't try and come between us. I know what you're doing.

13:04Christopher Chung:Sowing division. Yeah. Divide and rule. That's it. The great bitter sowing division. That's the new show.

13:10Ruth Bradley:Yeah.

13:11Christopher Chung:Too many puns. Yeah. All right, fine. Well, so if you want to get in touch with Kay, then you can email her, but she won't pick it up.

13:17Ruth Bradley:All I'll say is good luck to all you people writing in and dealing with James's triage sister for two weeks. Oh, God, can't we make Steph

13:23Christopher Chung:do the post-bite?

13:24Ruth Bradley:No, no. Because remember, this was only meant to last for a week. No, no, no. Yes. No, no.

13:29Christopher Chung:I think in perpetuity was the agreement. No, it wasn't.

13:31Ruth Bradley:It was the month of Jan, rather.

13:34Christopher Chung:Oh, it's fine. We'll put it to a popular vote. If anyone wants to see the old triage system come back and replace the postbag, then let us know.

13:39Ruth Bradley:Well, listen, it might be beyond your control. But yes, that's me done.

13:43Christopher Chung:Anyway, Boydie. Well, the aforementioned Alan Partridge is back. Thank you. Now, do you mean Alan or Steve? Well, I mean, Steve Kuhn playing Alan Partridge, a fictional character. We may or may not be reviewing this, so I'm not going to say anything. But what I will say is it's called How Are You? It's Alan Brackets Partridge. And this is the series in which Alan investigates the issue of mental health from all kinds of different angles, mainly his own.

14:11Ruth Bradley:Now, he would be ripe for a tech detox.

14:14Christopher Chung:Like a part of this documentary. I kind of thought, there's an episode of this time where I think he goes to see the monks. The monks? Yeah, and he kind of thinks about doing a detox and being silent and all of that. It's the way forward. It doesn't go well, as you can imagine. but I've watched all six episodes of the new series BBC kindly put it all up there on the BBC previews hub and yes I don't know whether we'll get we'll get around to watching it on to reviewing it or not so I'm not going to say what I think of it but his eyes are smiling

14:42Ruth Bradley:Boyd's eyes are smiling no no no

14:44Christopher Chung:but I can confirm Tim Key's back in it in episode one my close personal friend your close personal friend who apparently

14:49Ruth Bradley:is he a friend though or a foe we don't know well he was sporting

14:52Christopher Chung:a broken arm when you saw him at the pictures and I'm not were you responsible one legally i'm not allowed to comment wow anyway so yeah psychic siren's back um lynn is also back i can confirm i think these are all like you know a new partner for uh alan katherine kelly exactly plays his new partner um and so yeah it's all very exciting um and and i got to watch that so i did watch three solid hours of partridge um blue lights is back another one we may or may not review i'm not sure. Blue Lights was, I queued that up to watch when I was on one of my many jollies last month, I can't remember which one, but I wanted to watch I wanted to plough through the first two series because I never finished them before going to that and I haven't done it and I really need to.

15:35Ruth Bradley:I think he's creating a new section of things we wanted to watch.

15:37Christopher Chung:Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Things I meant to watch but failed to. Well, Blue Lights is one of the most again, we might review it so I'm not going to say who I think, but it's definitely one of the most, I think it won the BAFTA actually this year for Best Drama Series. So it's not like it doesn't get a lot of acclaim, but it's hugely acclaimed by critics. And it starts to do really well as well in terms of ratings and everything. But for some reason, it doesn't quite have the cultural cachet, say, of like a Line of Duty, which it does remind me a bit of Line of Duty in terms of the way it tells the storytelling and the pace of it, etc.

16:12Christopher Chung:So anyway, but the bottom line is I watched a few episodes of the new third series of Blue Lights, which we may or may not end up reviewing.

16:18Ruth Bradley:Oh, Sian Brick. I was trying to remember.

16:19Christopher Chung:Sian Brick, yes.

16:20Ruth Bradley:Ah, yeah.

16:21Christopher Chung:The great Seanbrook is...

16:22Ruth Bradley:Very good.

16:23Christopher Chung:She plays the main character of the ex-social worker who pivots from social work to becoming a cop. And that's...

16:30Ruth Bradley:I was getting it confused with the Martin Freeman one.

16:33Christopher Chung:Don't get confused.

16:34Ruth Bradley:Which one's that? The other...

16:35Christopher Chung:That is the informer. No, no, no. It's not the informer. It is the responder.

16:41Ruth Bradley:Yes, that's it.

16:42Christopher Chung:See, I've got to get out. I didn't even Google it. I know, see? I've got to get out of my addled brain.

16:45Ruth Bradley:Cod live royal.

16:46Christopher Chung:Yeah. Charming. Wow.

16:49Ruth Bradley:No, aren't you?

16:51Christopher Chung:It's going to be cod liver oil. Wow.

16:53Ruth Bradley:I'm constantly recommending it to you. Anyway, yeah, well-remembered.

16:57Christopher Chung:Yeah. Thanks. Unbelievable. Patronizing. Well-remembered, Boyd. Well done. I also watched the rest of Juice, which we did review last week. We did. Marmora's ones and Russell Tovey. Fantastic comedy. And it gets even better. Yeah, watch the whole series.

17:11Ruth Bradley:How far are you through? All the way through. Because I think I've watched about four.

17:13Christopher Chung:All the way through. And it's this puppetry kind of episode. You know how inventive, visually inventive, it gets even more out there as it goes on and the relationship between Russell Tovey and Mawam this one's character is extraordinary so yeah and if you want to see me on TV always if you tune into the Sky Arts Awards if you crank up Sky or now you know on demand you will find the Sky Arts Awards which I went to this week and I'm there were you hosting? no I wasn't hosting it was I wasn't hosting no it was hosted by what's his name the comedian who does the music. Bill Bailey. Bill Bailey, thank you.

17:53Christopher Chung:Condor Royal. It was hosted very nicely by Bill Bailey, who I do love. He's brilliant. Do you remember he hosted a Bower event once? Were you there? He hosted the Empire Awards about five years running. Oh, wow.

18:03Ruth Bradley:More importantly, fantastic on Strictly.

18:05Christopher Chung:Yeah, fantastic on Strictly, a legend. He was very good. Madness played, Boomtown Rats played, Bob Geldof got a Lifetime Achievement Award. Were you on a panel?

18:13Ruth Bradley:Is this why you were?

18:13Christopher Chung:I was a judge on the TV, in the TV category, which was shockingly won by adolescents. Shockingly? The way you said that made you say, I am disgusted to hear that. No, I'm being sarcastic.

18:25Ruth Bradley:That was a bit. He did a bit there. Oh, I assume you did that.

18:28Christopher Chung:That's very funny. Obviously, my comic timing wasn't. Anyway, what was interesting was, it was on Tuesday night, it took place, last Tuesday, as we're recording this today, on Thursday. And of course, all of the adolescents people were still in LA, recovering from their huge, big triumph. So they had, shall we say, some of the lesser known cast members came up to collect the awards which you won Owen Cooper won it's an ensemble piece yeah Owen Cooper the young guy who won the Emmy he won for kind of best newcomer for a second

18:56Ruth Bradley:I forgot that you said like you know I thought you meant he took the award and I was like you're calling him a lesser person on that show I thought Owen Cooper was there

19:04Christopher Chung:no no no no no some of the less well known I said steady don't try to get me into trouble

19:11Ruth Bradley:I thought they would have done a VT

19:15Christopher Chung:did they do a VT I don't think when you're recovering from winning

19:19Ruth Bradley:we were so leery eyed on the champagne by that point

19:20Christopher Chung:exactly who can blame them ripped to the tits on Mowit

19:23Ruth Bradley:ripped to their tits

19:25Christopher Chung:exactly

19:25Ruth Bradley:he's talking about you no I don't think

19:28Christopher Chung:I think he's talking about the cast members of adolescence who knows who knows who knows what the fuck he's talking about who knows anyway what was Alan doing there Alan wasn't there anyway it was but what's funny is there was a bit where, you know, you're seeing, it's all tables, you know, and you're all sitting at your tables. And there's one bit where, I think it was the Literature Award, where she went to Sally Rooney, the great Sally Rooney. And for some reason, the camera decided to focus on me. So I'm sitting there at this table, and I'm, you know, kind of watching the thing play out. And this camera just arrived, literally shoved the camera in my face for the whole time that this award was being given.

20:10Christopher Chung:And you know you have to sit there, I don't know if you've ever seen it before, where you know you're on TV because the camera, the red light's on and the camera's pointing.

20:16Ruth Bradley:How did you arrange your face?

20:18Christopher Chung:I just kind of had to go, you have to pretend you don't realise the camera's there, even though it's literally 10 centimetres away from your face. So I kind of literally had to pretend. I just stared really intently at the person giving the award to Sally Rooney.

20:32Ruth Bradley:Okay, two important questions. Yes. One, what were you wearing? Supreme?

20:36Christopher Chung:I was wearing a Supreme collab. You wouldn't know it was Supreme unless you really, I didn't have Supreme on it. Hang on, hang on. It was a piece of art, the Supreme Politician. Can you, right, do you want to read that email out in front of the class? No, is that mine? Is that, you know, if I actually, are you sure that was mine? Yes. Oh, okay. Yes, I am. All right. Who was it from? Come on, tell me. No one interesting. It's from ITV, about their seven-day schedule, if you really must know. Okay, good. I'm glad we heard that. Clearly important then.

21:04Ruth Bradley:I was going to fall on my sword then because it was also me at the same time.

21:08Christopher Chung:Was it the same email? Was it the same email? No, it was a different one

21:11Ruth Bradley:and I suspect it was actually my computer. So I have to fess up? I think you, yeah. I see. I couldn't let Boyd be I see what is happening here. So yeah, so you were wearing a collab. Okay, cool. Second question. What was the dinner like? Was it delicious?

21:25Christopher Chung:Dinner was, do you know what? It was one of the best group dinners, whatever you want to put it. Awards dinners. Awards dinners I've had in a long time. It was plant-based, totally plant-based. So there was no meat at all.

21:37Ruth Bradley:That's good for Boyd who only eats chicken.

21:38Christopher Chung:Yeah. It was very well done, the food. I thought it was a bit of a triumph, I have to say. And I sat next to, I should say, shout out to Alex Margot Arden, who is an artist who was nominated for a Sky Arts Award. And she was very funny and entertaining.

22:01Ruth Bradley:What a wonderful Tuesday night.

22:02Christopher Chung:Yeah, she was in the same category as Owen Cooper. So, like, Breakthrough Award, it's called. So she knew she was not going to win. she was like I am not winning

22:09Ruth Bradley:always keep the hope

22:10Christopher Chung:I know I kept saying you never know you never know I mean you're almost certainly right

22:15Ruth Bradley:oh wait a minute oh no that was Sally Rooney I was going to say that's why the camera was on you because you're focusing on her no no no it's a completely

22:21Christopher Chung:different category than the camera was on me for

22:23Ruth Bradley:do you know what the director probably thought give the audience what they want

22:25Christopher Chung:exactly more Boyd yeah more Boyd that's what I subscribe to that's definitely what happened okay what have I been watching this week I hinted at this when we were doing Pilot Plus the other day Dexter Reservoir I finished the first season of Dexter Resurrection and I don't know if we can do a spoiler special because neither of you have watched it. Oh, didn't you agree that you were going to watch the rest of it for next week? I think we agreed that on Pirate Plus yesterday that you were going to watch the rest of it.

22:49Ruth Bradley:We did because our listener, Callum, got in touch to say that he absolutely loves it and wanted us to do one because he's just obsessed with it. He thinks the finale was brilliant, blah, blah, blah.

23:00Christopher Chung:I mean, I think I've been bullied into it. I don't know if I can do this. Yes, so Boyd, he's going to watch it for next week. Come on, pull your finger out, Boyd. It's good. It's good. I really enjoyed it. I mean, I enjoyed... Now, I forget them. It was the... What was the one? So, it was the... So, we had Dexter, and then the one where he came back was... The wintry one was called Dexter...

23:16Ruth Bradley:Was there some New Blood?

23:17Christopher Chung:Do you know what? You're absolutely right. New Blood was that one. It was the... That was the wintry sort of like... Sort of sequel, legacy sequel type thing. And then Original Sin was the Paddy Gibson one. Oh, right. Yeah, of course. That's the one we didn't like. So, New Blood liked. Original Sin didn't like. Resurrection, really good. I thought it was great. Really enjoyed it. How many episodes? Is it in total? it's like 9 or 10 oh please boy

23:38Ruth Bradley:that's one evening for you so you know you'll be fine

23:41Christopher Chung:a mere 10 hours says the woman who watched one episode of Bake Off boy

23:45Ruth Bradley:oh my god do you know what you're not going to poke this bear shots fired

23:49Christopher Chung:shots fired yes the amount of TV

23:50Ruth Bradley:I'm watching every week yeah carry on

23:53Christopher Chung:anyway I enjoyed it a lot I thought it was good Uma Thurman's in it Peter Dinklage's in it it's there's an abundance of serial killers in this one so it takes a slightly different time his eyes lit up there I love an abundance of serial killers in a TV show. Yeah, it was fun. I had a good time with it. I don't know that I agreed with our listener that it was like the best Dexter ever, but I thought it was... We don't need to do the spoiler special now. You've covered it.

24:16Ruth Bradley:Yeah, done.

24:16Christopher Chung:No, no, there are many wonderful things for us to discuss.

24:20Ruth Bradley:Tune in to hear them wanging on about it.

24:21Christopher Chung:Yeah, exactly that. That's what else we've been watching. However, however, as much as I enjoyed the finale of Dexter Resurrection, I'll tell you what I didn't enjoy. What? The finale of Star Trek Strange New Worlds. Now, I have extolled the virtues of this particular... Well, it's finished now. It's done. Well, this particular series is coming back. But I thought this was a disappointing series. It started well, and then it kind of plateaued. And then I felt it just took a few missteps in close succession. And there was this one episode called The Terrarium. It was in succession as well. It was in succession as well.

24:50Christopher Chung:There was one episode called The Terrarium, and I was like, oh my God, this has been done before. And I think, and even the final episode as well, I was like, so many of these things feel very familiar to me. Like, Star Trek has been here before. like the Terrarium is like an Enemy Mine episode it's like we've seen this shit before and it just it all felt a little bit stale and I just I couldn't really bring myself to care that's not saying I think it's a bad show I just think they had an unfortunate run of quite middling episodes which made up most of this season so

25:17Ruth Bradley:I was listening to what you just said but just a correction say I said we're done I meant was done a pleasure okay good

25:24Christopher Chung:I enjoy that level of grammatical pedantry so yeah I'm here for it so yeah Strangely Welles didn't love as much the finale of Foundation aired now we touched on this on Pilot Plus so I'm not going to get too into it I'm still trying to maybe possibly think about doing a spoiler special for Foundation you definitely should which I really should because it's a lot to unpack

25:42Ruth Bradley:get Helen on

25:42Christopher Chung:so yeah she'll love it we'll see maybe Boyd

25:45Ruth Bradley:Boyd have you seen any more?

25:46Christopher Chung:no

25:46Ruth Bradley:okay fine

25:47Christopher Chung:why not Boyd? why?

25:48Ruth Bradley:but look there's the incentive of doing it with Helen so

25:51Christopher Chung:yeah that's it

25:52Ruth Bradley:come on you lovely Helen

25:53Christopher Chung:see so now this weekend if you can watch all 10 episodes of Dexter Resurrection and then watch all a Foundation season three and then we'll pick it up next week that's a promise boys committed it's not going to happen no because Auster's playing Man City on Sunday yes that won't take long I know for a fact that you can do both at once no I've seen you do it well go to football watch and watch and watch Foundation do you know what you probably could do that but I've seen you watch two TV shows at once oh yeah I've done that that happens all the time that's crazy that's not good for your brain I'm going to the Auster game I can't take my laptop and sit there in the stands you could actually I probably could I'm sure there'll be boring bits like the bits between the first whistle in the last one so that's quite tedious so you can watch something then Do you sit in a fancy box?

26:30No

26:30Christopher Chung:Alright

26:31Ruth Bradley:He can't do that in the stands Club level

26:34Christopher Chung:I'll tell you who I sat very close to last weekend Who? Romeo Beckham He was in front of me in the queue and then Very good

26:43Ruth Bradley:His mum's documentary seems to be on Netflix Surely he has a box

26:48Christopher Chung:I think he does have a box yes he was walking up in front of me to his box

26:53Ruth Bradley:Then he came to hang out with the riffraff aka Boyd

26:55Christopher Chung:I'm assuming he won't be in his mum's documentary. Oh no, I'm sure he will be. Romeo. You're thinking of Brooklyn. Oh, I'm confused. They're all... You know what? The one moment of him trying to connect with popular culture. I tried so hard. I thought, oh yeah, I know a thing about these people. It's good that you're vaguely engaged with it. Yeah, yeah. You're in the ballpark. I know there's a Beckham rift. Yeah, no, Brooklyn is the one who's the black sheep. Yes, okay. But Romeo is absolutely still fully on board with the Beckhams. Okay. Okay, well, fair enough. Don't come to me for your Beckham knowledge.

27:24Christopher Chung:I think that's what we've learned from that, 100%. Okay, that is what we've been watching. So we're going to skip. I'm so sorry for everyone, but we're going to skip the listener question this week because we have a lot going on runtime-wise.

27:34Ruth Bradley:James just said he doesn't care anymore about what you guys are. So I had to just, you know, agree with what he said.

27:39Christopher Chung:Hey, hey, Pilot Plus exists. I'm just saying, feel free to subscribe and then we'll answer as many questions as you like. But for this week and possibly a couple of weeks, we have an abundance of guests. So you're going to have to bear with us. In fact, let's have this week's first guest. And it is none other than Slow Horse's Roddy Ho, the homeister uh christopher chung himself uh roddy who is the narcissist incel hacker at slough house and he's been generally brilliant since season one he takes center stage in this fifth season which sees him in a kind of hitman's crosshairs and we sent our very own hitman boydy to chat to chris about hot rod hello christopher chung welcome to the pilot tv podcast thanks for having me where do we find you today where are you dialing in from on the zoom i'm in my house in london Oh, nice.

28:24Christopher Chung:A nice little corner of it. A nice little corner.

28:28Ruth Bradley:A good contrast with the blue wall. I like it.

28:31Christopher Chung:Yeah, it's very nice. Very good. Now, are you prepared for season five of Slow Horses? I say that because particularly this season, it's all about you, isn't it? It's all about Roddy. There's no getting away from it.

28:45Ruth Bradley:It makes me very anxious, actually. Does it? But it's been quite nice, like, you know, the first four seasons to be able to be kind of like within the story, but a little bit on the periphery. But having Roddy kind of be the first domino to tip in this season and everything, the chain reaction that happens around him has made me feel quite excited for people to see him in a different capacity, but also quite anxious because you get to see a little bit more of him.

29:15Christopher Chung:You do. Yeah, we see a lot more of him. um what when you first to go back to the beginning when when the show was first created and you know you got the role did you go to the books and read what how the books described roddy or did you kind of was that all in the script you took it from there i mean will's

29:31Ruth Bradley:done such an excellent job of adapting mick's work and mick's novels are so cinematic in the way that he writes them they're so beautifully descriptive um i definitely went back um to the novels when I first landed Roddy, just to see how Mick had seen him and what he kind of infused him with. And the thing that was really apparent to me is the way that Mick writes Roddy's character is so defined and different to the other slow horses in that he uses a lot of internal monologue and how Roddy sees the world and everybody else is just living within Roddy's world. and I think what was really difficult with this season or what I kind of assumed would be very difficult this season would be how those internal monologues start to translate into actual dialogue within the series and Will's done a fantastic job with that and hopefully I did them justice, I did Roddy justice.

30:34Christopher Chung:Oh for sure, yeah. How do you think he does see the world then? What is his worldview i think i think he thinks that everybody is just playing around in his world and he's the

30:47Ruth Bradley:master puppeteer you know everybody everything that he does is is right and justified and exactly the right call um he does no wrong so anytime that he's kind of called out or you know in season five you see a lot of delusion um but i i kind of see him as just being misunderstood because he marches to the beat of his own drum and everyone else just doesn't fall

31:12Christopher Chung:in line yeah yeah we we interviewed will smith for um a new issue of empire and he talked about how he just just just this whole idea of roddy having a girlfriend was the driving comedic

31:24Ruth Bradley:force of this season how is that i don't understand why that's everybody's joke you know and i think that's why me and roddy are quite parallel in that in that uh space but i think he's just misunderstood, you know? I think Roddy having a girlfriend, a physical girlfriend this series, is an actual, a huge win for him because he learned from his past mistakes with the bot in season four, which I thought Will had done so particularly well to kind of integrate that storyline into season five. So if you kind of pick up the Easter eggs along the way, he's planting stuff the whole way along, which is really nice because I know these things because I have discussions with him going into the next season.

32:10Ruth Bradley:But being able to play that was great.

32:13Christopher Chung:And Borgit, I mean, he's variously described. He's described all over the place as, you know, like an idiot and just various insulting, you know, epithets for him. What is that like to play such a character? On the one hand, people love him because he's so funny and he's so entertaining to watch. But on the other hand, he's an absolute, complete doofus.

32:36Ruth Bradley:I think he's just a little bit oblivious, you know. It's really, it's, Roddy's like quite a hard line to tread because he, if you play him too obnoxious and too kind of acerbic the way, you know, the way that he could be played, it can come off as like a really unpalatable character on screen, especially by contrast with all the others. So it's about, for me, like finding the humanity and the empathy that I could imbue him with and being able to carry that through to in a way that also paid respect to what Mick had wrote originally but also whilst making it my own I think the thing that's really interesting about this season is that although the book in itself is more comedic than the others and a lot of that is driven through Roddy's you know do doofusness yeah but i don't think you know a lot of people have kind of uh commented that it's the silly season or that it's a bit you know it's a bit more farcical i would kind of combat that and saying it doesn't undercut the tension in any way i think what it does is really brilliantly balance the comedy and the the drama and all of the elements that we're so used to in slow horses but just levels them up again which every subsequent season that we've had so far

34:05Christopher Chung:has managed to do yeah i agree with that totally yeah it's still the whole genius of the show in a way is to marry that the kind of how funny it is to watch you guys when you're but and yet having incredibly tense proper espionage thriller stuff going on at the same time that perfect example is

34:23Ruth Bradley:the opening sequence in in of season five and then moving after credits into to introducing Roddy into the season and I just think you know I when I watched the first edits of it my breath was taken away by like wow we're gonna open the season like that that's incredible and then immediately you flip it on its head and then you have this kind of more um oh this is the world that we that we know as well as an audience member these are the characters that we love so it's a really nice contrast I think Will's balanced it perfectly I think the comedy runs the whole way through it as well as the tension

34:59Christopher Chung:Yeah absolutely and the fact that you are kind of so front and centre in this season means that you get some great scenes I mean you always have great scenes with Gary but I particularly enjoyed when Kristen Scott Thomas and you are together in some of the later episodes I must have enjoyed to film those

35:15Ruth Bradley:It was so exciting to me because I've wanted to work with Kristen for the whole time and it just never eventuated. And I'd already obviously read ahead through the novel, so I knew that this kind of setup would happen if we got to deliver season five, which we did, thankfully. So getting to work with her was a real, you know, it was like a sparring match, like putting those two characters in a room together and just seeing what comes out of it is just, you can see her wheels ticking over, like, what is this? Who is this person? what is he all about yeah is that deluded is he that is he really that ignorant but he is somewhat of a genius and i know this lambs told me um so she's trying to decipher like figure roddy out but if you if you watch roddy as well like he's got the lay of the land or what he thinks is the lay of the land throughout the whole interaction absolutely it's genius because she

36:11Christopher Chung:can't i feel like she's he's such a she's never made anyone like him before she really she's like Even from Slough House, like, she can't quite cope with it. Is he really this seemingly thick, right? I mean, I'm trying to be nice, but, you know, can he really be that in his own world?

36:30Ruth Bradley:It's also in that much disbelief that there is someone that's, you know, in the service that is like this as well.

36:36Christopher Chung:Right.

36:38Ruth Bradley:I think what was really lovely about working with Kristen was we knew that those scenes in particular we filmed at the end of the season and she came up to me at the unibase and said I'm very much looking forward to doing our scenes together it's going to be great acting and it was you know it was a lot of me like wow that's that's quite amazing that was

37:02Christopher Chung:quite amazing for me yeah fantastic yeah what what I mean we do see some some way into kind of Roddy's life as well. And what did you make of what we learn about him in this season, in terms of his gaming, his wielding of weaponry, his outfits? The whole thing builds a much more vivid picture of him.

37:26Ruth Bradley:I think that's what's really nice about every season that we do. There's layers that the characters show to the audience as you get deeper into the show. And that's a real payoff as an audience member if you stuck with a show for so long that you get to really invest and see more of those characters blossom and see the layers throughout. And I don't think a lot of shows do that. What's really beautiful is, you know, our art department, our location, our costume, our makeup and hair. All of these departments that I get to work with as Roddy get to have conversations. I get to have conversations with them to discuss how we're going to deliver the kind of next level of Roddy for this next season.

38:13Ruth Bradley:Me and Guy, who is our costume designer, we had a lot of conversations about the tracksuits that Roddy will wear this season. He had me try on about 20 different types of tracksuits before we finalized my hero tracksuit, which he had the fabric made for it. He had all like the zipper and all the trimmings were very specifically designed so that it looks really incredible in the nightclub sequence. That was a real joy. And then talking with Lucy Civic, who is our head makeup designer, and continuing to tell the story about Roddy through his hair and what that kind of reflects to him. And I always had it that he had reflected a female that he liked through his hair.

39:03Ruth Bradley:Like season three, we had the blonde streaks and he was trying to mimic Louisa. And then four, he had the blue hair and he was trying to mimic this avatar, Kim, that he was in love with on the computer. And this season, he's just straight out peacocking with his like man bun and his purple hair. So everything tells a layered story going forward. So it was really nice to be able to delve into that a bit more.

39:25Christopher Chung:no that's that's that's that's interesting yeah um the the cast is so is so brilliant but um i guess it all starts from gary doesn't it and his you know his his sense of timing his and a lot of that it comes out in little moments with the two with the two of you where he's so disdainful of you so kind of dismissive it is what's it like being on the other end of his absolutely kind of scathing attitude towards you it's just wonderful which is like you know

39:53Ruth Bradley:it's it's funny i don't think there are many people that get to be you know called out by gary oldman but what if you can i would absolutely recommend it yeah um but i you know i've worked with him now for near on four years and every day that i go on set with him i'm learning something new and and seeing how he approaches the work and how he's always looking to just again better it or make it that little bit more detailed so watching him find this scene within the room is is just so captivating and magnetic because i'm picking up all those skills for myself that i'm using that i'm finding that i'm using through other jobs that i'm doing as well and on slow horses too so it's it you know you're getting paid to learn from an oscar-winning actor who's one of the all

40:44Christopher Chung:time greats absolutely yeah yeah i saw you at the baftas um last year and that you were that you know that there was a gang of you there from the show it feels like you genuinely bonded as like a the slough house kind of you know mafia or something you know is that have you become have you become like a bunch of friends as well yeah it's like you know

41:05Ruth Bradley:four years we're a very dysfunctional family in so many ways and you've got Gary and Saskia who kind of feel like the parents and you've got Jack and Roz who are like our older siblings and then me and Amy are like laughing away in the corner and then you have like Uncle Hugo Weaving coming in so it's it's wonderful you have and it's not just like you know any old actors every actor wants to be in the show of any kind of high caliber because they know that it's it's brilliantly written it's brilliantly paced you know it's six episodes you're in you're out and you've got a clear storyline so getting these massive players to come in and do guest spots like we have nick muhammad this season and he's absolutely bang on the money um so having them come in to the family and then always having them as part of the slow horses world has been you know mind-blowing yeah it's very exciting i was going to mention nick

42:01Christopher Chung:muhammad just to have him brilliantly cast as this politician kind of running for re-election as Mayor of London. That is an inspired bit of casting, isn't it? Were you a fan of his before he arrived on the show?

42:12Ruth Bradley:Oh, yeah. I mean, I didn't get to do any scenes with him and I never crossed paths with him at the Unibates. But when I saw that he was coming in to play Jaffrey, I was like, wow, we've definitely... You always think as well going into a season, like how are they going to level up the casting? Like we've literally got the best of the best. But Melissa Getting-Clark and Nina Gold, who cast the show, always managed to get like the top tier talent to come come in and play with us so it's uh it's a

42:41Christopher Chung:real joy would you like i mean the show's been recommissioned we know that there's you know another series come how many have they confirmed they've confirmed six right not yet seven seven

42:50Ruth Bradley:seven as well okay yeah so we're going into production we've finished filming six uh i think at the start of the year maybe and then we're going into film seven right so this show how

43:01Christopher Chung:How has this show changed your life? Like it must have been, you know, can you imagine what might have happened if you hadn't have got the role? And, you know, you've been part of one of the most acclaimed and, you know, one of the best shows of the last, you know, decade really. Can you kind of take that in?

43:15Ruth Bradley:I mean, like saying that, it takes my breath away still because I feel like, you know, I've been on this journey as an actor. I moved from Australia to the UK about 14 years ago and I've done various work throughout, but just before I actually booked this job, I had spoken to my agent and I said that I think if this job doesn't come through, I might take a step away. And at that point in time in my career, a lot of the dreams and goals that I had for myself, like those doors started to close for me in my own mind. And then as I started to do this show and as it became more and more well known and acclaimed, all of those doors have just started to bust right open in a way that i even before i couldn't have dreamed of so it's been a real a real life-changing experience yeah yeah i bet yeah

44:09Christopher Chung:yeah you popped up in doctor who um uh last season was very excited about i'm a very big doctor who fan um how was that and are there any other shows you'd want to go you want to be a

44:18Ruth Bradley:guest star in i mean doctor who was great fun i've always wanted to work with russell um i've kind of known him socially for a long time so it's been a real nice kind of uh circle full circle moment to get to do that episode and it was such a fun episode to be a part of um are there shows that i'd like to be a guest star on i mean i don't know a guest star but i'd love a regular role on the white lotus have a full full-sized role in white lotus yeah yeah why not why not i heard they're going to the snow somewhere next season i don't know if that's true but i'd still do it i don't mind if it's not a beach that's big of you yeah yeah yeah you adjust to

44:57Christopher Chung:the cold that's right yeah yeah um i have to say the other thing i was gonna everyone's mentioned this to me is that when you when you see you in the flesh of yourself you are incredibly buff and i know you know like it doesn't it's an interesting version of roddy isn't it it's like is does that was that always okay with everyone that you actually actually you know you're playing this role in your version you the reality of you is you're extremely um ripped young man

45:21Ruth Bradley:well i'm trying to cross all the casting brackets you know you can't just be in this industry um yeah i mean i think it was something that for myself that even i thought that roddy should have been should be presented in one way and it and it took will and will smith and and james hawes our first uh season director to kind of bust me out of that mentality because they they really wanted to lean into who i am as a person and bring that to the role and the more that I thought about it, I was like, wow, I've even placed a stereotype upon myself because that's just what I'm so used to seeing. Being able to bring that version of myself into Roddy just heightens him even more.

46:02Ruth Bradley:It's such a juxtaposition of who you think that character is and it's really lovely that James and Will allowed me to challenge the norm in that way and expand my own mindset. So I really appreciate that.

46:18Christopher Chung:And it particularly works in this season, doesn't it? Because his physical presence is kind of – it adds a kind of real impact, I think. Very much so.

46:24Ruth Bradley:It's funny as well, though, because, you know, if you go on Instagram and you look through the kind of things that I follow or whatever, there's a lot of, like, people that are considered geeks or tech nerds, whatever it might be, that are absolutely jacked, you know? That's the other hobby that they have. Right. And we haven't seen that version yet. So it's nice to be able to be that.

46:46Christopher Chung:That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. So would you want, finally, would you like so just to carry on for, you know, a few more years? And, you know, is that, I mean, you must do it really, right? You don't want this adventure to end, I'm assuming.

46:58Ruth Bradley:Of course. I mean, I think that the day that I have to hang up the Roddy Ho hat will be a very sad day for me indeed. I don't think I'll ever get to play a character for as long as him or feel as attached to a character as I am with him.

47:13Christopher Chung:Yeah. And as viewer, I mean, we'll miss you and the show so much when it, you know, eventually. Yeah, but we don't need to talk about that. No, no, no, exactly.

47:21Ruth Bradley:I'm sure.

47:22Christopher Chung:Yeah, exactly. I mean, I've watched all of season five and it's an absolute joy. So yeah, congratulations.

47:26Ruth Bradley:Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

47:27Christopher Chung:Congratulations on a fantastic role and a fantastic show. Cheers, Christopher. Thank you.

47:32Ruth Bradley:Cheers, Boyd. Thank you so much. that was Christopher Chung

47:36Christopher Chung:and time now for I guess the news you guessed the news I guess the news I'm going to guess the news and really there's only one place to start and it is with the fact the foundation has been renewed for a four season it is of course the 2025 Primetime Emmy Awards that took place in Los Angeles and I suspect we might hear a little bit more about that from a first-hand witness a little bit later on but let's talk about this were there any surprises? no Well, you say that. I think you're saying that in hindsight, you know, because basically the...

48:13Ruth Bradley:Obviously in hindsight.

48:14Christopher Chung:Yeah, but what I'm saying is, no, no, no, with the benefit of hindsight. Oh, right. Sorry. The keyword benefits there is the one I left out because the pits won everything, right? Well, the big... Great show board, you should watch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was never a given that it would. I think people are now going, oh, of course it was going to, because it's become a pop culture phenomenon. But let me remind you, it was up against The Last of Us, your favourite, Severance. So many corridors. I think Severance was the favourite.

48:41Ruth Bradley:Do you?

48:41Christopher Chung:Yes, I do. See, I don't think it was. Oh, I do. I think it was an underdog.

48:45Ruth Bradley:It was against Slow Horses as well.

48:46Christopher Chung:And Slow Horses and The White Lotus. You might even say The White Lotus was possibly more likely. Unless we forget Paradise, which was inexplicably also in the category. Yeah, indeed, it was inexplicable. I'm actually surprised The White Lotus

48:56Ruth Bradley:didn't get any awards.

48:57Christopher Chung:And The Diplomat. It was a very strong category. Diplomat was never going to win. Andor should have won but it was never going to win either. Don't be ridiculous. But what I'm saying is everyone's going oh of course it was going to win all along. No, no, no, no, no. I guarantee you it was not a given that the Pit was going to win. Someone asked me before this what's going to happen to the Emmys and I basically just said the studio and the Pit were going to win everything. That was my whole thing. It's like being in the presence

49:20Ruth Bradley:of Mystic Meg. That's right.

49:22Christopher Chung:I'm like Phil the Groundhog. Was that the day after the Emmys? Yeah. A good one for you.

49:27Ruth Bradley:Andor did get an award writing for a drama series. Dan Gilroy.

49:31Christopher Chung:Which I think is a surprise in that category. Well, to be fair, Dan Gilroy did an incredible job with that blog.

49:38Ruth Bradley:But Will Smith for Slow Horses and also Mike White. Yes, yes. And Dan Erickson for Severance.

49:45Christopher Chung:I mean, that's a really strong category. So that was an absolute triumph for Dan Gilroy, for Andor, I have to say. And Slow Horses did win for Adam Randall, the director. Yes, it did. And again, he was up against Andor, The Pit, two directors for The Pit, including John Wells who directed all the classic episodes of ER and stuff Legend Steady Severance Ben Stiller for Severance and Mike White for The White Lotus I think that is a surprise think about the strength of that category and Adam Randall we will talk about that obviously imminently

50:18Ruth Bradley:and of course Adolescence is just completely sweeping the board

50:21Christopher Chung:I think that wasn't a surprise

50:24Ruth Bradley:I've moved on from surprises now I've moved on to just good news. The good news section, which is that Adolescence rightly got its props.

50:34Christopher Chung:Friend of the pod, Phil Barantini, won for directing a limited anthology series. I mean, I feel like if he hadn't won that, everyone should have just gone home. Yeah. Genuinely.

50:42Ruth Bradley:Collectively just stood up and walked out.

50:43Christopher Chung:Literally the whole room just emptied immediately and was like, fuck this.

50:46Ruth Bradley:Yeah.

50:47Christopher Chung:No, I agree. Fair enough, yeah. Do we want to go through this category by category or is that just too excruciating? I think it's a little

50:54Ruth Bradley:excruciating because, I mean, Adolescence and the Pit just like completely mopped up and we're going to be talking hopefully to someone who was there so that's quite exciting.

51:01Christopher Chung:Yeah, okay, fine. So let's not overly dwell on the others.

51:04Ruth Bradley:No, I mean Shrinking didn't get anything which is not a surprise to me but I felt a bit sad about it, I just got to say.

51:08Christopher Chung:Yeah. I'm still picking on some surprise winners though. Oh, feel free. I mean, Stephen Colbert was always going to win. Oh yeah, sure. Supporting actor in a comedy series, this category included Coleman Domingo for the four seasons, Harrison Ford for your favourite, K, Shrinking, Eben Mosbacherk, also your favourite for the bear, Mike Ullery from Shrinking and it was won by Jeff Hiller from Somebody Somewhere and I guarantee you most people won't have heard of that show but I've mentioned it before a few times on this very podcast it's on Sky Comedy I believe or Sky Max possibly Sky Atlantic it's on one of the fucking Sky channels and it's really sweet he says having gone to the Sky Arts Awards

51:45Ruth Bradley:yeah

51:45Christopher Chung:it's really steady unbelievable it's a really sweet moving beautifully done kind of gentle comedy about a community of outsiders who kind of... It's about being an outsider in a way, you know, kind of in terms of your sexuality, your gender. It's a really fantastic show. And yeah, Jeff Hiller, that was one of the heartwarming moments of the whole night that he won for that up against some giants. There were a few winners for... Like Severance, Brit Lowa won lead actress in a drama series for Severance. So, you know, not everything was won by the... And she had a little let me out written on her speech.

52:22Christopher Chung:Yeah, fantastic. It was brilliant. And Christina Miliotti was hilarious because she was like, she'd written the notes for her speech on the back of the piece of paper that she used to take notes in her therapy session. So she was saying, please don't read the back of this while I'm on camera. Incredible, yeah. Brilliant.

52:36Ruth Bradley:Alan Cummings, soon to be in Tiptoe, right? Yes. He picked up the award for... Russell T.

52:39Christopher Chung:Davis' Tiptoe.

52:40Ruth Bradley:Yes. Reality Competition Program. He picked up the award for the US Traders.

52:44Christopher Chung:Yeah.

52:45Ruth Bradley:Good to see.

52:45Christopher Chung:And Tremel Tillman won for Severance as well. So Severance did win a few. Yeah. Quite rightly, because obviously it's fucking brilliant. Yes.

52:54Ruth Bradley:So, the studio, adolescence, and the pit. Tick, tick, tick.

52:58Christopher Chung:Tick, tick, tick. And or should have had more tics.

53:01Ruth Bradley:What did you say?

53:01Christopher Chung:And severance.

53:02Ruth Bradley:Yeah, sorry, I've got a blind spot. I think it's because I didn't watch it and didn't engage with it. You hate her.

53:06Christopher Chung:She's a hater.

53:06Ruth Bradley:Well, I'm sort of like not engaging with the pit news fully because I'm furious that I cannot join in the conversation because I've watched it. Just take a flight. Okay, are you going to get me a flight?

53:17Christopher Chung:Where's your retreat? Is it like on an island somewhere? Could you watch it on the way there? It's in the UK.

53:22Ruth Bradley:but I am up for going to Fiji so

53:23Christopher Chung:okay you can watch it on the way there is it really in the UK oh I thought I imagined like it was like some kind of white lotus style you know

53:30Ruth Bradley:you guys don't pay me enough to be on a white lotus retreat

53:33Christopher Chung:do they confiscate your phones yeah like your tech yeah or you just expect it to no yeah

53:39Ruth Bradley:you give it you don't you're not like you know because some people wouldn't be able to some people are so addicted can you imagine Boyd giving up his like not looking at tech for a greater length of time than I don't know could you give them like

53:49Christopher Chung:a burner and like keep another one like a phone like stuffed in your sock

53:51Ruth Bradley:You're just going on that. You're just cheating yourself, right? It's an entirely pointless exercise.

53:56Christopher Chung:I'd be like Jason Isaac in the most recent White Lotus. I'd be like, I can't do it. I would have liked a path. Yeah, that's right. Trying to poison everyone. Admittedly, that was poorly chosen. You'd see it would be a nightmare. You wouldn't be able to do it. I would struggle. I would genuinely struggle. Maybe I should try it.

54:10Ruth Bradley:You've got no discipline, unlike me.

54:12Christopher Chung:Wow. Okay, so Emmys were fun. Yes, they were fun. What else have we got that is not Emmy-related? Do you know what? Himmel. Himmel?

54:21Ruth Bradley:Himmel.

54:21Christopher Chung:Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel. Yeah. I see what you did there. You can explain yourself, Kay, if you want.

54:30Ruth Bradley:No, because actually I don't know. I can't quote. I'll have to look up the quotes. Basically, Jimmy Kimmel was taken off. Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Cricket Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel. No, I shouldn't laugh. Right. No, madam. No. Jimmy Kimmel was taken off air because of comments he made about the assassination of...

54:52Christopher Chung:Charlie Kirk.

54:53Ruth Bradley:Charlie Kirk, yes.

54:54Christopher Chung:Yes, that's right. To be fair, this is an absolutely extraordinary story, yeah.

54:59Ruth Bradley:That's why I thought you would instantly talk about it.

55:01Christopher Chung:I mean, I wouldn't go around to it, yeah, but the fact that you queued me up. Yeah, it's stunning. ABC, it's an ABC... Jimmy Kimmel is probably the most... You're talking about the most mainstream, you know, kind of... He hosted the Oscars brilliantly a couple of times. I think he is the best of the current crop of late night talk shows, but he's been indefinitely suspended by ABC because he dared to talk about, you know, people's reactions too. He wasn't really even talking about Charlie Kirk himself. He was talking about the reactions to Charlie Kirk and how, in some people's opinions, what's happened has been weaponized by Donald Trump, etc., and the Republicans.

55:45Christopher Chung:and yeah it's absolutely it's crazy times I would say yeah

55:52Ruth Bradley:Well handled.

55:53Christopher Chung:Yes, there's a video of an American preacher, like a pastor, talking about this particular issue. It's quite an interesting speech if you see it floating around on Instagram. But I think the gist of it is that you can abhor the way a person died without validating the way that person chose to live, which I thought was kind of a balanced response to something. Anyway, this is a downer. Just to say one more thing about it. The thing about it, it throws, there's lots of articles, you know, the whole American media, this is a huge story. Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. But also, what does it say about the future of late night chat shows?

56:30Christopher Chung:Jimmy Kimmel is such a talent and is so respected and admired that I think other outlets would find something for him to do. Oh, yeah. Similar to Stephen Colbert. Oh, yeah, but I don't think these people are going to be persona non grata, but it feels like that particular type of show. I mean specifically, I think there's still a huge attraction. Late night chat shows on American TV still have a huge attraction. They still get a huge amount of reporting is done on them, their comedy monologues, etc.

57:00Ruth Bradley:Also, they get great guests.

57:01Christopher Chung:And also, great guests. And also, there's an ecosystem, I was going to say, of promoting a big... The whole Oscar season, for example, is kind of built around doing interviews on these types of shows. So I don't think they're going to disappear. I think that's slightly exaggerated. They're definitely under threat, though. It's definitely on a knife edge, and it's really interesting. Obviously, it seems trivial compared to other issues revolving around the story, but I'm fascinated by how they're going to be affected.

57:29Ruth Bradley:To trivialise it further, guys, if there's an opening for an American slot for us, maybe this is our opportunity to crack America.

57:38Christopher Chung:Yeah, I think... Oh, my God, do you think I'm serious?

57:42Ruth Bradley:No, no, no, I didn't. can you imagine

57:46Christopher Chung:you've become that delusional yeah

57:47Ruth Bradley:oh it's possible listen I will watch the fucking pit on a flight whatever the destination is

57:52Christopher Chung:no I'd love to see us do like Boydie as a late night host oh great so you're in that film what was it called you know the one famously the film oh it's gone out mad you would do the monologue

58:00Ruth Bradley:can you imagine James I mean if he worries about the camera filming this can you imagine guys guys I mean some of us

58:06Christopher Chung:have witnessed James doing a monologue the various life I mean that's true I would say my famous monologues how would you rank them there was the Game of Thrones one which I believe was 13 minutes and then there was the How I Got Taylor Swift tickets which was about 12 minutes

58:19Ruth Bradley:oh that was a long one or were you also forgetting the whole quiz based on you

58:24Christopher Chung:oh yeah that's true that went on for about half an hour

58:26Ruth Bradley:that went on so long I contemplated leaving I wasn't part of the pod then oh you weren't the only one

58:30Christopher Chung:and I was like

58:31Ruth Bradley:I've supported this pod that I'm not part of for long enough

58:33Christopher Chung:in my defence the whole quiz wasn't about me it was only one round yeah but how long was that round

58:39Ruth Bradley:it was interminable

58:40Christopher Chung:it's it's been on

58:42Ruth Bradley:and on and on I think you even had slides didn't you yeah I had slides yeah there were slides

58:47Christopher Chung:it was demented

58:48Ruth Bradley:okay guys I'll take it back we can't crack America we're just cracked

58:52Christopher Chung:oh god I can't even remember when we were so have you two been in any way a part of the summer I turn pretty hive which is it's like a phenomenon like everyone's talking about this love triangle who's belly going to end up with and then obviously summer I turn pretty finished it's final season finale but now it turns out it's going to continue in movie form. I know that's film news, but it's kind of tangential to a TV show.

59:15Ruth Bradley:I mean, like a lot of our news, but I would say I can't, you know, we watched, I think I watched one episode for the podcast. I'm sort of tempted just to see what everyone's going on about, but also I can't endorse a show where the main character's called Belly.

59:29Christopher Chung:Wow, that's your objection. I believe it's short for Isabella.

59:32Ruth Bradley:I know, but yeah, anyway, so it seems my kind of show, and so many people have got in touch about it, saying that we should give it another go, so maybe we can do it. What do you think? On Pilot Plus?

59:40Christopher Chung:Well, I think we did it. I literally think we did it on Pilot Plus. We watched the first episode and reviewed it. Of the most recent season? No, no. I think we went back to the beginning to review the show as a whole. And I think we quite liked it, but none of us were pressed on with it. No. We interrupt the news section. I'm just going to kick off straight off here. Because we have a guest. We have a guest. Ruth Bradley is with us here in the studio. Emma Flight herself. Welcome, Ruth. Thank you. And we've just had, and I'm going to read the slide, a ginger immunity shot, which you've just can you please tell us what this was like I'm about to try one myself

1:00:12Ruth Bradley:it's hot on the eyeballs it's hot is it is it going to be

1:00:15Christopher Chung:intense

1:00:15Ruth Bradley:but I feel my immunity is shut up I feel like it's the kind of thing that yeah I want to see you drink because it's like oh god he is drinking it

1:00:22Christopher Chung:oh fucking hell

1:00:24Ruth Bradley:he never lets us drink on a

1:00:26Christopher Chung:that's quite intense it's going to keep the colds at bay

1:00:29Ruth Bradley:for sure

1:00:29Christopher Chung:Kay's more of a mow it person but we're you know we like to do ginger shots on this podcast media but we I was just saying as we were coming up we were just discussing the Emmys and the winners and the losers for this. But you were at the show. What was it like? What's it like going to the Emmys?

1:00:45Ruth Bradley:It's wild. It's great. The show was amazing. It was actually very moving in there. It was quite long. Three hours. So many ad breaks. Three hours. Oh, three hours.

1:00:55Christopher Chung:Nothing for an American awards ceremony. I'd say that's quite short. I know.

1:00:59Ruth Bradley:But it was live. So there are ad breaks. And you're just like running out really quickly. Do you get fed and watered in between? Because no. there were no snacks no we had to bring our own snacks and your bags are probably quite small tiny so I couldn't fit any snacks so I had a massive thing of popcorn before I went in that's all they were selling which is very trendy and cool in my ball gown it's a vibe

1:01:21Christopher Chung:and do you have like a if you have to go up to go to the loo do they put a like a seat filler exactly that

1:01:27Ruth Bradley:there are people all dressed up in beautiful ball gowns who just come in and sit in your place so I didn't leave because I didn't know when our awards were coming up so I was like it would be so bad bad if I was in the bathroom. It'd be pretty awkward, yes. Oh my God, how... Yeah, that would be the worst. Awful. So I just stayed there for three hours, but yeah. This is a side note. Do you get a goodie bag? This is my main thing about the Emmys. Yeah, it's all Kay cares about. Yeah, well, I've heard, like, you know, some of the, what would you say, like the nominees get these glamorous... Do you know, okay, we didn't...

1:01:57Ruth Bradley:I know, and I'm just trying to think. Okay, well, someone needs to have a stern email.

1:02:01Christopher Chung:Sometimes there's like a gifting room, isn't there, where you go and...

1:02:04Ruth Bradley:There was a gifting room. that I didn't have time to go to, which was gutting. Yeah, so maybe that's where I'll have it.

1:02:09Christopher Chung:Surely. Next time. Next time. See, that would be my only destination if I went to the Emmy's room. Where is the gifting room? How do I get to the gifting room? Who is coming with me to the gifting room? I mean, that says a lot around you. Yeah, I mean, that's probably true.

1:02:20Ruth Bradley:They run a tight ship, though. You'd be hard-pressed to get to the gifting room. They bring you from place to place.

1:02:25Christopher Chung:But you were part of the whole gang, weren't you, if you went? Yeah. That must have been fun. That was brilliant.

1:02:30Ruth Bradley:and like we don't see each other all the time we all live in different places so it was just like really refreshing I'd been out there a few days early and then everybody arrived and it was like a big love in it's nice to see the slow horses in their glad rags as well right I particularly liked Gary's red bow tie wasn't that stylish very cool nice touch yeah he cleans up well

1:02:51Christopher Chung:and you did win of course Adam Randall director won I mean that must have been fantastic

1:02:55Ruth Bradley:oh it was amazing we really lost it when he won And we got up and screamed. It was like we were teenagers. But we really didn't expect it. You know, it's like we're kind of the little show that's a real cult kind of show. So, yeah, we were so happy, so delighted. He deserved it. You know, he's brilliant. But, yeah.

1:03:14Christopher Chung:It's interesting you say that, though, because I guess that's technically true. Because Slow Horses is on Apple, which doesn't have the biggest audience for the streaming networks. But, you know, those of us who kind of watch everything, it's very much up there as one of the best shows on TV. And that's kind of how we see it. So we kind of perceive it as this juggernaut. But it's interesting to hear you think of it as a sort of a smaller, almost cult show.

1:03:34Ruth Bradley:Yeah, well, I guess everybody doesn't have it, right? Because it's a fee-paying streaming service. So, yeah, if it were on BBC One, maybe everybody would know more about it. But, yeah, it feels like the little show that's winning, which is great. I mean, it's obviously a big budget show, but still.

1:03:51Christopher Chung:It's definitely become a cultural phenomenon, hasn't it? I think even just you know whatever however many actual people it's people it's become one of the most acclaimed rightly shows of our time really when you first joined it because you weren't there from the beginning well you did were you aware of just how kind of brilliant a show was?

1:04:08Ruth Bradley:No because when I first joined it only season one had aired so it was very I mean it was amazing but not many people knew about it but I could see by the writing how amazing it was and sometimes that doesn't translate but it was pretty clear that it was an incredible piece of writing. What can you tell us about Flight's arc this season? Is there anything that you can...

1:04:27Christopher Chung:Now when you say this season, which season do you mean crucially? Because it's sometimes hard to tell with Slow Horses because you've done like another 15 which haven't aired yet.

1:04:34Ruth Bradley:Totally, we're banking them up. Are you scared to reveal too much? No, I think I'm safe. Well, it's great. She's got such a great arc. I mean, it's so faithful to the book. So if you read the books it's all in there. But that's what's so great about this show is that I could go back and read the books and like make a big plan, which you usually can't over seasons. So she's far more humble this year. She came in, which was great. I could make strong choices in season four because I knew where it was going. And she was definitely a little bit cockier in season four and thought I've arrived now and her ego was maybe running the show a bit initially.

1:05:07Ruth Bradley:So five, she's far more humble, stripped back to basics and she goes on a very different kind of journey. Season four, it was great to see Flight and Lamb collide. so good I mean even reading that was so fun because you're like this woman has no idea what she's dealing with and it's just like well she certainly learns in episode 3 although she's out of the room because I wanted to talk about episode 3 it's what I watched this morning and I don't know have you seen how much have you seen do you get to see all of it in advance I've seen all of season 5 yeah okay so the episode I mean I'm going to bring it very base to the episode with Lam in the room they're in it's the farting scene it's the farting scene you're talking about I'm just going around here Just get to the point.

1:05:47Ruth Bradley:It is exceptional. It is so good. I'm glad you liked it.

1:05:51Christopher Chung:Because obviously at acting school we talk about smell the fart acting but this is literally what that scene is. Literally what it is.

1:05:56Ruth Bradley:And far more technical than you'd imagine because obviously we all needed to react at the same time. There was no real sound, you know. So we had to make those kind of...

1:06:04Christopher Chung:Gary Oldman doesn't do that on, you know...

1:06:06Ruth Bradley:He can't do it on cue as far as I know. As incredible as he is.

1:06:10Christopher Chung:What I particularly love about that is that it's teed up to precision. and they've obviously judged the speed at which said fart would travel. That's what we discussed. And people react at different points. There's a clear delay between different people. Yeah, that was part of the planning. The reaction shots were fantastic. Yeah, yeah. And it was fun to see because we're all doing our own things. Yeah, right. So how many takes did you do? Do you remember?

1:06:33Ruth Bradley:Of that particular scene? Surely it's a one-er, right? Yeah, I mean, I think we did a lot. We were all having way too much fun shooting that scene, which is, here we go again.

1:06:45Christopher Chung:I haven't read the books, but I remember hearing, I think we've interviewed Gary a couple of times on this show about the series. And I think he said that in the books, he's slightly less, he's more horrible to your character than he is in the show. That he's actually, he's quite extreme to flight in various moments. Is that true? Do you recognize that?

1:07:08Ruth Bradley:I'd say that's very fair to say, yeah. I mean, that's what's great. The books are, we're faithful to the books, but definitely it changes and in the playing of it and how we are flight and lamb and how me and Gary are as actors so it has room to change and evolve yeah he's definitely way worse in the books to flight and she's harder and colder in the books as well

1:07:29Christopher Chung:oh that's interesting did you talk to Mick Herron about this at all have you had that kind of conversation about who he sees her as

1:07:36Ruth Bradley:that's interesting I've never had that chat with Mick generally he's just I don't know if you've met Mick he's the loveliest man so he's obviously written all the books and then him, he and Will and the team kind of work on the scripts and then the scripts are Will's so it's Will who I speak to mostly about flight and yeah I must go back and chat to Mick in lieu of having shot them all

1:07:58Christopher Chung:She's an interesting character because she's kind of an antagonist isn't he really but she definitely wouldn't see herself that way do you think?

1:08:06Ruth Bradley:Definitely not I think she sees herself as straight as a die and the slow horses are up to no good and everybody else is maybe not as straight as she is. So, no, she thinks she's the protagonist.

1:08:18Christopher Chung:Yeah. But isn't that the key to all great? I mean, I wouldn't even describe her as a villain, but all antagonists should see themselves as the hero of the story.

1:08:25Ruth Bradley:Totally. No matter what kind of deeds they're doing, you need to think that you're justified in what you're doing. Definitely. It makes for good drama, doesn't it?

1:08:32Christopher Chung:What did you make of this season's emphasis on Roddy? Roddy coming centre stage.

1:08:37Ruth Bradley:It can only be a good thing, right? Yeah.

1:08:39Christopher Chung:I mean, it's so fantastically entertaining. and Christopher Chung brilliant in that role

1:08:44Ruth Bradley:so brilliant doesn't he there's a lot of room for comedy because that character is so funny and he's so unaware of what he's doing yeah it was really really great fun

1:08:52Christopher Chung:and even just the idea of having a girlfriend hilarious in and of itself in and of itself exactly yeah and he's so different isn't he I mean we've got an interview with him on this very episode

1:09:03Ruth Bradley:oh do you

1:09:03Christopher Chung:yes we interviewed him a while ago

1:09:05Ruth Bradley:polar opposite isn't he

1:09:06Christopher Chung:he's incredible

1:09:07Ruth Bradley:he's hashtag leading man as I always say he's hashtag leading man yeah is this the last series that Will's written or is it the next one five is the one that's on now was there a sense of sadness about that because also he's done all of them and he's such a big part of this oh yeah I love Will it was a big old change but I think like anything things kind of come to an end but we're still great pals and I still have so much love for Will he's a genius

1:09:37Christopher Chung:he's very very good We try and pin down exactly what we think makes this show great because it is the writing and the performances. You feel like you know these people. You want to spend time with these people. But also, there's the underdog story as well and then McCarran's plotting. So there are so many different aspects to it. And it also has, and we talk about this a lot, the apple sheen, which a lot of these shows have, where they just feel so, well, let's be honest, expensive, but also polished, right? They just look beautiful.

1:10:04Ruth Bradley:I think Apple are really, my experience of working with Apple is that they kind of, give their money towards it and kind of leave you alone really which is amazing and Jay Hunt I think who runs Apple UK has just got a great eye and great taste but essentially you're kind of left to do your thing on set and play with the huge production values which is probably why it's got the Apple Sheet

1:10:27Christopher Chung:That's the dream isn't it? Just give us all the cash and leave us alone

1:10:30Ruth Bradley:That must be very liberating Yeah totally because it almost feels like you're making an independent film and then you're like oh no we're in St Pancras We're doing six nights in a row. This is not cheap, you know.

1:10:39Christopher Chung:Something that always interests me is accents. Now, you've talked, I think, in the past, that you tried to ground Emma in very specifically the voice, the accent, the background to like a location. Where did you settle on for her?

1:10:51Ruth Bradley:I would never tell because somebody from here is actually so wrong.

1:10:54Christopher Chung:I need a postcode. I need a postcode.

1:10:57Ruth Bradley:I could give you an in and around. It's an area in Kent.

1:11:01Christopher Chung:Okay, whereabouts? Right now.

1:11:03Ruth Bradley:If she tells you, she'll have to take you out, James.

1:11:06Christopher Chung:But the other thing is, so English accents are fiddly. And in my experience, Americans in particular really struggle with that kind of southeast England accent. And I will say, Jack Loudon, incredible job. You do a fantastic job in this. Martin Compton is another one who does it really, really well. But what do you think makes it so tricky? And specifically, how did you nail it? Was it just like, I'm going to watch two seasons, Downton Abbey, and then just go for it? Like, genuinely?

1:11:31Ruth Bradley:Well, no, because I think Downton is slightly more polished. Yeah, that's true. A bit RP. From Downton and not from Kent.

1:11:36Christopher Chung:You're somewhere between Downton and EastEnders. You find the middle ground. I don't know what that is.

1:11:40Ruth Bradley:Well, I think that's why you have to be specific because otherwise you're kind of flailing about in the dark. And every accent, you know, there's sometimes Americans say you have an accent, but you're like, well, everybody does. An accent is so specific to the person and it informs you so much about who they are and where they've grown up and what their life has been. So I think specificity is the key. Specificity.

1:12:00Christopher Chung:So you chose somewhere like three miles west of Dexley Heath and that was exactly where you kind of nailed it.

1:12:04Ruth Bradley:But trying to be posher.

1:12:06Christopher Chung:Yeah.

1:12:06Ruth Bradley:That's the key.

1:12:08Christopher Chung:So a little aspirational.

1:12:09Ruth Bradley:Exactly, yeah. In MI5, in Taverner, you know, to kind of... And then it slips sometimes. If you listen carefully, she slips.

1:12:15Christopher Chung:I was going to say, if you're going to be in a room with Chris and Scott Thomas, you better mind your P's and Q's. Yes. Because she speaks extremely well.

1:12:21Ruth Bradley:Exactly. But sometimes when Flight's speaking to Lamb, it'll go back to her real self.

1:12:25Christopher Chung:Ah, I see. I mean, you mentioned Lady Di. Obviously, those scenes are also high points. The sort of Flight-Taverner dynamic is wonderful. what are those scenes like to shoot?

1:12:36Ruth Bradley:So fun I mean that's another thing that's not really in the book but I really came at it like Taverner is her favourite woman on earth and she just wants to be her you know and so it kind of sometimes was falling into a mother-daughter dynamic it was kind of dysfunctional family so yeah that was so fun to play She's sort of seeking her approval all the time yeah just desperately hoping for a thumbs up and any old crumbs will do which I thought there was some It's never coming It's never coming She needs to let it go. I know. It's awfully cringey to watch, I think. You know, somebody desperate for something is getting nothing back.

1:13:12Ruth Bradley:As opposed to Lamb, he just doesn't give a shit what she thinks. Exactly. Exactly.

1:13:16Christopher Chung:I love their dynamic as well, though. I think they make a brilliant couple, the scenes they have together.

1:13:21Ruth Bradley:Oddly, probably a less dysfunctional one, because it's more honest and kind of like they're both being themselves.

1:13:26Christopher Chung:I'm a huge fan of James Callis, actually. I think Claude Wheatland, again, a genius addition to this show. but he plays that particular type of character very well. I don't know if you ever saw the 2003 Battlestar Galactica. I didn't. And you surprised me. I'm sorry about this. Not many did, apart from James. You've done science fiction. I have, I have. That's right. Humans, Electric Dreams. That's right.

1:13:49Ruth Bradley:I wouldn't diss science fiction, but I missed Battlestar Galactica.

1:13:52Christopher Chung:You should go back and watch it. He's very good in it.

1:13:53Ruth Bradley:He's very good, isn't he? And also, he's Bridget Jones' best friend. He is indeed. He's fabulous. he's very funny in this season isn't he

1:14:02Christopher Chung:very hilarious he gets to do some proper ridiculous stuff doesn't he

1:14:07Ruth Bradley:he's on the ropes

1:14:08Christopher Chung:he goes way too far this season particularly is a lot about London as well because you've got Nick Muhammad as the mayor of London kind of standing for re-election etc so did you know Nick's work for Stardust

1:14:21Ruth Bradley:I did I had seen him in Ted Lasso and I remember watching the first episode of Ted Lasso and being like I'd never come across him before I was like who is this guy I just think his style of acting is almost like you're a voyeur that you shouldn't be watching him. It's so naturalistic. You're like, this guy, they've just picked him up the street. And then I looked at him and was like, obviously really accomplished. Actor and comedian. But yeah, he's amazing this season.

1:14:45Christopher Chung:Yeah. Because you joined Ted Lasso in season two, didn't you? Because at that point, it was already a cultural phenomenon because during the pandemic, I think it became everyone's lifeline. Did you watch it when it aired in the pandemic?

1:14:55Ruth Bradley:Again, I didn't. I kind of got the job.

1:14:57Christopher Chung:You don't have an Apple subscription, do you? No, I still don't.

1:14:59Ruth Bradley:Someone at Apple needs to hook her up. I do have an Apple subscription. I pay for every month later. But yeah, I watched it again once I was cast and I was totally blown away by him and everybody. But it was out on its own genre-wise, wasn't it? It was like feel good and silly and sad and moving. It was great.

1:15:17Christopher Chung:And it kind of had an interesting art. The episodes got longer. It got more serious as it went on. And obviously your character, I've completely forgotten her name, but the school teacher who is kind of exactly that brings out a side to Brett's character that we don't see anywhere else so those are lovely scenes lovely

1:15:36Ruth Bradley:just saw Brett at the Emmys actually as well because he now owns Hollywood oh yeah

1:15:40Christopher Chung:a little bit yeah yeah his film comes out on Apple this next week I think yeah very excited to see that

1:15:47Ruth Bradley:and obviously in my favourite Shrinking yeah I'm obsessed oh yeah it's great isn't it fantastic and that's his show that he made like it's amazing yeah

1:15:56Christopher Chung:I mean, a touch on sci-fi, and I'm obviously joking, but not joking. But I am obsessed with sci-fi. I think this is fairly safe to say. But you've done a few of them, and I wonder, how do you feel about different genres and how you choose things? Do you just look at it purely on the basis of the character? Do I like the character? Do I not like the character? Or does genre and the type of storytelling kind of play into the choices that you make?

1:16:15Ruth Bradley:Genre never does, actually. Really, very rarely. I barely notice it. It's always story first, and then character. But the kind of genre comes afterwards. unless it's a demonic possession horror in which case I'm like

1:16:29Christopher Chung:oh my god I'm too scared to do this yeah really have you not that many horrors

1:16:34Ruth Bradley:no horrors kind of scare me yeah I mean it must be some old subconscious Catholic Irish thing I need to kind of delve deep into but like yeah demonic possession I'm like oh I don't want to touch it avoid at all costs don't mess with it yeah

1:16:47Christopher Chung:this feels like a demon that needs exercising you should definitely find out when the next exercise film is coming out and just sign on definitely do that I mean they're fairly regular They are, like buses, really. They come along all the time. But when you played Karen Voss in Humans, again, fascinating character because it's a machine pretending to be a person who's also a police officer. A lot of layers to that. From an acting point of view, it's quite a mouthful, isn't it, to get your head around because you don't want to be too robotic because she's trying not to be robotic. So you kind of have to walk this sort of middle path between the two different performances.

1:17:21Ruth Bradley:Yeah, that was so much fun. All those challenges were so much fun. and again deciding how well she's acting essentially depending on who she's around and the little tells like in season one before anybody knew that you know like the eyes move before the head it's just so slight but it's like that's not very natural you know and that was something we all chose the robots did so yeah that was how would you do that what would your life be like and then kind of removing the bag was the big reveal but yeah it was great I loved playing it

1:17:50Christopher Chung:did you get to make a lot of those decisions for those character moments yourself or is it kind of like are there general guidelines you know or do you do you have a lot of freedom to to play with that

1:17:59Ruth Bradley:idea well the ideas of what the synths did was kind of us and the choreographer dan o 'neill and we came up with it together but it was very much his influence really he's an amazing um choreographer and the other things i mean the bag was in the script but like i i got to decide lots of those things the little tales and yeah and then i was kind of left to my own devices as the series continued which was joyful and what about with slow horses do you do that as well you like you being a robot you get into it for the character i mean that's season seven k the reveal is season seven we can't spoil it at this stage how much do you get to play with that rock you know like or is it just very much what's in the script no totally i get to play with it yeah it's really free and like open and and like in season five obviously i can't speak about much of what happens but like there was a decision I'd made in my research like oh that's how I'm going to play that and then I got to set and I was like oh no not at all totally throw that out the window so

1:18:56Christopher Chung:always evolving always yeah yeah what was it because you was the fact that you were there on set in particular it was the other actor oh yeah yeah how they were playing it was like oh well that changes everything you'll know you'll know okay when you see it we'll keep our eyes peeled yeah so many iconic roles but nothing really can hold a candle to the pink power ranger which of course you voiced when you were 14 and this was now i'm right in saying it's just the it was the irish voice for the pink power ranger so a purely voice acting role what on earth was

1:19:29Ruth Bradley:that like well it was great i mean i was 14 i mean i speak irish so it was like irish language no problem to me and i just pop in on the dart after school and record it for three hours and go home I'd be like, amazing, 150 quid. Great pocket money. Totally. So yeah, I wish I was still doing the Pink Power Ranger. It'd be a good little nixer for me as I go around.

1:19:49Christopher Chung:Did you watch the show as well?

1:19:50Ruth Bradley:To be honest, I didn't. No, I never watched it in English or Irish. I wasn't a fan. But all I can remember is Turbo Power Anish, which means Turbo Power Now. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's all I can remember.

1:20:01Christopher Chung:That's incredible.

1:20:02Ruth Bradley:It's good, isn't it?

1:20:03Christopher Chung:Genuinely amazing. So what's next for you? What are you working on now?

1:20:06Ruth Bradley:I just finished a film, but I don't think I'm allowed to talk to it. It's a secret show. Yeah, it's a secret. And next, I'm just going to have a little relax. Wait for the right thing. Chill out a little bit. You've been to the Amaze.

1:20:16Christopher Chung:You've had a busy, busy old time.

1:20:17Ruth Bradley:Yeah, I'm going to chill.

1:20:19Christopher Chung:Season six of... Oh, yeah, that's... Well, that's done, isn't it? That's what I mean. And in fact, there's actually a trailer for it. If you watch it on Apple TV +, and it looks incredible. Already, I'm excited about season six. Oh, great. It just looks fantastic. Yeah, obviously, you know exactly.

1:20:35Ruth Bradley:Do your friends and family try to squeeze you for information, or are you very good with that? I don't know. They don't really try and squeeze me for information at all. I think they're probably happy to watch us. Unlike us, who's like, tell us everything. Yeah, tell us all the things. But I guess it would ruin it, wouldn't it? Because what's so great is you get the rug pulled from under the other time.

1:20:53Christopher Chung:It's unusual, though, isn't it, the way Slow Horses is produced? Because I remember when season one dropped, at the end of season one, the trailer for season two just kind of blew everyone's mind. And then season two dropped the same year as season one. If you could make sure that season six arrives soon. Right. I'll do that. Have a word, please. Put in a word to Tim Apple and just, you know. Because we want to see it. But it is incredible that it gets made that far in advance. And I suppose that's the benefit of being kind of pre-renewed and greenlit to go ahead, isn't it?

1:21:21Ruth Bradley:Yeah, and that was the plan to shoot two back-to-back all the time. So the audience, for the audience really, because it's so annoying when you love a show and you're like, I wonder if they'll ever do that again. Will my answers be, my questions be answered? So that was always the plan. It's great, isn't it? It used to be the way.

1:21:35Christopher Chung:Yeah, but I'd like them very much to go back to two seasons a year. That would be great. I really appreciate that. So if you could put in a word, that would be lovely.

1:21:42Ruth Bradley:Okay.

1:21:43Christopher Chung:We are very greedy. We are. We are very greedy. Well, Ruth, thank you very much for joining us on the show. You're so welcome, guys. We're going to review the fifth season of Snowball. In front of me. No. If you want to stay there, we're going to get straight into it. True story. Boyd used to actually do this on a radio show. He used to review books in front of the authors. Yeah. It was weird. Yeah. It was bizarre.

1:22:01Ruth Bradley:Simon Mayer shows. That's so weird.

1:22:03Christopher Chung:Yeah. Isn't it awful? he's a terrible person it wasn't my idea but we did do it

1:22:07Ruth Bradley:so you have to watch their faces crumble he was basically the Simon Cowell of books he was like it's a no from me most of the time they were good books

1:22:15Christopher Chung:so he didn't but once in a while it was excruciating it was ridiculous

1:22:18Ruth Bradley:we're not going to do that to you really

1:22:20Christopher Chung:spoiler we really enjoyed it yeah exactly

1:22:22Ruth Bradley:you would have nothing to worry about

1:22:23Christopher Chung:we'd be like yeah it was really good Ruth Bradley though I don't know thank you so much cheers Ruth that was Ruth Bradley That was delightful, wasn't it? Although, I'll be honest, this ginger thing that I had, I'm not feeling it. What is that? I didn't really see what it was. It is a ginger immunity shot.

1:22:43Ruth Bradley:Yeah, they're popular. Which I picked up. Glenish.

1:22:45Christopher Chung:Yeah. I'm just naming the company. She chose it downstairs in reception and I decided to have one. And let me tell you, it's like, I don't know, it's got a kick to it.

1:22:52Ruth Bradley:Yeah, because it's ginger. It's very good for your immune system.

1:22:55Christopher Chung:It's quite pungent.

1:22:55Ruth Bradley:Yes. Water away those colds and lurgies.

1:22:58Christopher Chung:That's right. That's right. No lurgies from you. Okay, we can go back to news now, I guess. Where were we? Yeah. We were discussing news.

1:23:05Ruth Bradley:Well, the big news was that Ruth just came in.

1:23:06Christopher Chung:Yes, Ruth just came in. That was news. But what else have we got? What else has happened in the world of news? Oh, I know what I was going to mention. I think I just said I'm very excited about this thing that arrived today. An email arrived today from the BBC comedy team in which they released the first images and further casting details of 2026. You know what 2026 is, Caitlin? What's next year, isn't it?

1:23:28Ruth Bradley:Yeah, I literally thought you meant the year and I was like, oh, okay.

1:23:30Christopher Chung:No, this is from the team we gave us 2012. Remember the 1A?

1:23:36Ruth Bradley:Yes.

1:23:36Christopher Chung:This is Hugh Bonneville as Ian Fletcher, who is the kind of hilarious character who gets to run stuff. He ran the Olympics from the British point of view. Seb Coaster, exactly, yeah. And he's brilliantly going to be joined by Hugh Skinner, who was in 2012 with him, as Will Humphreys, who is now, this is from the press release, Will has graduated from hapless intern to the dizzy heights of being Ian's PA which is very exciting because I love Hueskin he's absolutely brilliant in everything and he's hilarious in the show and also coming back is David Tennant who was in W1A in 2012 as the narrator and his narration is really funny it's fantastic and there's all Nicole Sadie Sawyers in it Joe Hewitson etc but I just cannot wait to see we have to wait till next year unfortunately because 2026 will be on in 2026 and it's all about Hugh Bonneville's character having to organise the World Cup it's very exciting there you go sounds it

1:24:37Ruth Bradley:that is exciting not least because I've just confirmed who Hugh Skinner was because I was getting him confused for Hugh Dennis

1:24:44Christopher Chung:from Outnumbers no it's not the same Hugh Skinner is much younger shall we say any other news any other revelations Boyd any press releases any emails that have kind of popped into your inbox while we've been recording You know, I mean, it's just because you haven't done any work on the news. I can neither confirm nor deny.

1:25:06Ruth Bradley:I think we should actually wrap news to go on to reviews because we've already... Yes, because we've had two guests on the show already. We might hit the three-hour mark, which I think it will be pushing it.

1:25:16Christopher Chung:Okay, all right. No, that's fine. That's fine. Kay's on message. She's being uncharacteristically professional. So let's move on to this week's reviews. Let's leave news behind. We've covered it all off. We've had a guest crash into news in a fantastic way. So let's begin with The Hack on ITVX. And this looks at the News International phone hacking scandal. It's written by Jack Thorne and Annalisa Dinella. And it stars David Tennant as journalist Nick Davis and Toby Jones as his long-suffering editor. Now, I already know what Boyd thinks about the show because I pulled it off his voicemail. But why didn't you tell us anyway, Boydy?

1:25:52Christopher Chung:Very good. What did you think of The Hack? That's quite clever. um i this is a fascinating fascinating project because um it's telling the true stories from the team behind mr bates versus the post office the the production company behind that show and sure enough um uh toby jones of said program pops up as ex-guardian editor alan rushbridger um the focus is on um a guardian journalist called nick davis played by david tennant And Nick Davis was very much the kind of starting point for the whole investigation into phone hacking, which led to the closure of the news of the world, particularly, and also massive allegations in other tabloids, which are still ongoing, by the way.

1:26:34Christopher Chung:The story hasn't finished. There's still legal action going on. I think, you know, the Daily Mail is being sued by Prince Harry still, various other people. And it's a whole, it's a can of worms. It's a huge can of worms. And first of all, what I would say is I think it's really impressive, and Kudos needs to go to ITV for even commissioning this in the first place, because it's not like they're going to get a good review in The Sun, right? For example, just to say, or even The Times. Basically, any of the Murdoch titles, because, you know, it's still a huge area of controversy. And if you read Private Eye, like I do, you will know that it's a densely packed.

1:27:19Ruth Bradley:What's the controversy, though? That they still are denying that they...

1:27:22Christopher Chung:Yeah, that certain tabloid newspapers are still embroiled in litigation with people who accuse them of hacking their phones. And some of them still deny it. And, you know, so the news of the world, it was the only kind of, was regarded, it was claimed at the time, was the rogue newspaper. But since then, there have been accusations of others anyway. Anyway, I'm trying to avoid legal issues myself. Please don't get the podcast sued, Boyd.

1:27:50Ruth Bradley:If you sue anyone, just target Boyd alone because, you know.

1:27:53Christopher Chung:Yeah, can we make it a personal suit and not like a group suit? Yeah, exactly, a group suit. We should also say, so this drama, it's a seven-parter, and it depicts what happened when Nick Davis unearthed the evidence and how he got the evidence for massive kind of endemic phone hacking going on in these papers, but particularly in the news of the world. But it also tells a parallel story of Daniel Morgan, who worked for a company called Southern Investigations, and he was brutally murdered, and his death had implications for the relationship between the police and the press. And do you remember the whole inquiry into phone hacking?

1:28:31Christopher Chung:There was supposed to be a second part of it, which was going to look at, you know, the kind of dubious, these dubious relationships between law enforcement and the newspapers. And that never happened. That second part of the inquiry never happened. But this drama chooses to tell that story simultaneously, but episode by episode. So the first episode sets the scene with David Tennant playing Nick Davis about the journalism involved and the investigation. And then the second episode jumps completely to start telling Daniel Morgan's story.

1:29:01Ruth Bradley:And very different tone and like style, right?

1:29:03Christopher Chung:Yeah, completely different look and tone. And that's more of a kind of true crime feel to it. And the director, Lewis Arnold, has kind of taken a different approach to the two different... And so the first episode is a bit like all the President's Men, you know, and all those kind of classic stories about films and dramas about journalism and the kind of investigative reporting that happened. And then you get the Daniel Morgan story. and these are told episode per episode until you kind of run episode five or six when the connections start being pulled together, if you like. Oh, okay.

1:29:34Ruth Bradley:I wondered about that.

1:29:35Christopher Chung:Yeah, by these two separate stories.

1:29:36Ruth Bradley:Because it feels very disparate.

1:29:37Christopher Chung:Yeah, it does a bit. It does. It's a bold decision. I'm using the B word. And I thought we paid off, but I wonder whether people will think it's a bit too weird that it totally, if you like, abandons that first episode story.

1:29:50Ruth Bradley:I think I fell into that camp. Yeah.

1:29:52Christopher Chung:I think people will.

1:29:53Ruth Bradley:Because I think five's quite long to wait as well for it to, you know.

1:29:57Christopher Chung:Sure. Yeah, I think, by the way, I haven't watched the first two episodes, so I don't know. But I know that David Tennant has talked about in interviews how roughly that's how it kind of, they played out, and that's how they decided to do it. And that's how Jack Thorne decided to write it, particularly I think it was Jack Thorne's idea mainly to do that. But so first of all, I think it's a very brave, bold project. I think that the depiction, I really like the first episode. it has some some strange interesting creative choices one of which is he goes to a hotel to meet this person and lots of different celebrities are seen when he opens the door and he's like no it's not jonathan ross it's not and then you kind of meet the actual person the actual person and that was like so it's kind of like it's quite playful in an interesting way um which may or may not be to various people's tastes and look at k's face now she's shaking her head to listeners so i think we know which way you're gonna go i thought i kind of liked the fact that it wasn't just very straightforward storytelling.

1:30:54Christopher Chung:I like the fact that it was trying to do something a bit different. Yeah, of course, yeah. Because there can be a kind of relentless, if you tell the story all completely in order from beginning to end without any levity or any kind of imagination or, I don't know, playing with the narrative, then it can sometimes come across as a bit kind of, frankly, tedious. So this is doing a good job in making it interesting and coming up with different ways of telling the story. There's also a lot about Nick Davis and his family and, you know, his wife and kids, etc. and you know people may think well do we really need to know you know all about this this this

1:31:25Ruth Bradley:this person's i think there's some way to explain why he's so tenacious and you know he's on that mission to uncover the truth and for justice i rather like the relationship he has with no i

1:31:34Christopher Chung:did with his ex-wife kathleen kelly uh kathleen kelly popping up yeah absolutely no i agree completely no i thought it was totally valid but i've seen reviews that have um questioned that creative decision you know but for me it's kind of partly about him it's called the hack and it's got that double meaning of you know he's a hack and the story totally central to it and at the same time um it's about phone hacking obviously so it's a clever title bottom line i thought it was very well done and i am fascinated by this story and i think it's interesting that some journalists find it difficult to deal with the reality of this story even now even this time i think they feel personally affronted and attacked by it almost like well because they

1:32:14Ruth Bradley:They feel they're being tarred by the crush.

1:32:16Christopher Chung:I think so. Or they're in denial. I've never been one of those journalists. I've always thought it was totally valid, this investigation into what we want. I thought you were about to say phone hacking. Yeah, it's absolutely valid. How do you think he gets all his scoops? I remember, I remember very, I did this, I remember talking to a quite prominent tabloid journalist when this all broke, this story all broke. And it was constantly in the news for months and months. And in fact, the years on it, it was huge. and I remember she said to me she said the whole thing is a storm in a teacup and I was like is it really because they didn't want to deal with the reality that this was so widespread you know and it was

1:32:59Ruth Bradley:very courageous for Nick Davis because essentially turning on fellow journalists it was an act of bravery both by Alan and Nick

1:33:07Christopher Chung:exactly 100 % so I don't think they wanted to acknowledge the reality of the situation because it's like I can you know if suddenly you know I mean I went on Newsnight yes I went on Newsnight with Steve Coogan and Alan Partridge and the and yeah it was Alan Partridge slash Steve Coogan it was definitely Steve Coogan and during this whole when that when this whole story was was the big story in the news at the time to talk about um you know journalism and showbiz journalism and how celebrities were

1:33:36Ruth Bradley:being targeted by these phone actors oh my god I never knew yeah yeah yeah it's probably on YouTube

1:33:41Christopher Chung:someone still what I remember about it I was like apologetic I was like by the way you know in heat we don't do anything we don't come up with these stories we don't invest your honour and he's like oh no I know no it's fine you're fine you're absolutely fine and you know it was a me and my boy team mailing the office burn the evidence

1:33:56Ruth Bradley:burn the evidence shut up James he jokes

1:34:00Christopher Chung:yes so yeah that was so I kind of like was fascinated by the whole thing and obsessed by what all went on and it's insane that it's still going on now so I'm fully on board with this show I thought it was a very interesting approach and I can't wait to watch the rest of it I have one criticism it's very wiggy I think the hair the wigs that David Tennant and for example Toby Jones wear and it's partly because you're so aware of what their hair's like in reality right I would just say this I don't think we need to have them looking like these people because the average member of the public... No one knows what they look like.

1:34:47Christopher Chung:No one knows what Nick Davis looks like.

1:34:48Ruth Bradley:So did you find it distracting?

1:34:49Christopher Chung:I found it distracting. I did find it distracting. Can I tell you what I found distracting? Not the wiggy-ness. Not even necessarily the fourth wall breakage. Oh yeah, sorry, I haven't mentioned it. Although there is a lot of that. And some of it serves a narrative purpose. There's a bit where he says, as you can see, we didn't get the rights to use the mask heads on the news of the world or the sun yeah and so they show the kind of mott up with different names on it i can't remember what they actually are the current fun and something like that and it's just like okay so that's a way of explaining that which is nice but there's a lot of direct quite arch to camera some of its exposition some of its humor and some of it i think works and you can actually accept but there was one particular bit where he's going to meet uh adrian lester who is his source and he opens the hotel room door and there's a selection of people that's what I said I said that but Jonathan Ross yes Jonathan Ross a bunch of people and I was just like that joke just goes on too long and I was just like they have what maybe four or five people and I'm like one would have been funny two would have you would have got away with I'm like okay this joke has outstayed its welcome dramatically and weirdly that sequence put me off the fourth wall stuff

1:35:56Ruth Bradley:so right so that's interesting so I find this I agree with the majority of what Boyd said it's fascinating it's important that it's being told, etc. And I think Tennant and Toby Jones are fantastic. I've seen two episodes. I do applaud creativity and bold choices. No, it's not so good. No, but we should be trying to reinvent the wheel and making bold, creative choices, etc. But for me, I found it too distracting, the two-camera stuff. Some of it, as you say, does serve a purpose, especially when stuff gets a bit convoluted or you know you're not in this industry and you're like oh wait what and he's kind of giving shorthanding it or self-correcting and I read like Jack Thorne was talking about why he chose to do it and in part is because to show that you know Nick didn't talk to a lot of people have a lot you know he obviously confided in Alan but the nature of what he did he didn't talk to people so it's kind of like he's forming that connection with the audience and self-correcting when he needs to etc etc which I you know take on board but I just found it it took me out of the story the playfulness of tone I didn't think it was right Tonal shift?

1:37:01Ruth Bradley:Yeah well just you know the sequence that you're referring to that bit just got me because I was like it just felt I don't know it felt off kilter

1:37:10Christopher Chung:Well the thing is I think you there's room for making a joke but if that joke is painfully unfunny then I think that was my problem I don't think we can talk about that but I don't think it was meant to be a a hilarious gag a hilarious gag is making a point about sources and you know that kind of thing it's yeah I mean I don't know

1:37:34Ruth Bradley:for me it's just the lightness of tone and the informality of it I don't know I just because it's a serious story right this is a serious story and I know it's a choice it's a choice you know the tone of this first episode as opposed to for example the second one which is just more plays it straight and it's more like a police procedural yeah I don't know didn't I didn't enjoy it as much as I think you did that aspect of it

1:37:58Christopher Chung:oh yeah fair enough I mean I enjoyed the whole thing yeah pretty much I mean you know I think there are moments that I might I liked the breaking of the fourth wall talking to Karen because I think it you would have had to have kind of had lots of I don't know clunky exposition and yeah he gets to tell us exactly what's going on at various key moments in his own kind of wryly you know kind of sarcastic self-aware voice so I thought that worked for me I thought that was I kind of liked that part of it it was just the weeks James drifted off into space and then decided we should probably wrap up this review so that's it for the hack I was breaking the fork wall there the fork wall actually I got it oh right I just thought

1:38:41Ruth Bradley:oh my god okay this is it he's having a breakdown this is an episode and we're just like going to have to wrap the actual episode

1:38:47Christopher Chung:to do all this that's fair I was going for the same level of humour as the show so why you didn't find it funny anyway sorry no offence Jathorne other than that one gag I actually did like it

1:38:56Ruth Bradley:yeah I enjoyed it too

1:38:57Christopher Chung:but The Hack which is on ITV Wednesday the 24th of September 9 o 'clock 2025 super next up we have Wayward on Netflix and this is a thriller created by Mae Martin and it tackles the troubled teen industrial complex as I have labelled it in the US specifically a school run by Tony Collette Evelyn Wade and the creepy town in which the school is situated and the kind of cult-like environment in which it exists. And speaking of creepy cult leaders, Kay, what did you make of Wayward?

1:39:28Ruth Bradley:So I really enjoyed this because I'm a big fan of May. I think they're brilliant and particularly in this just conveys such a sort of sense of vulnerability and quiet strength. Something very mesmerizing about their performance. And in this they play, right, so in this may plays a man called alex who's married to laura who's pregnant they move to tall pines we find out that laura was originally from this um place which is considered to be very progressive and intentional community he reassures him that you know everything's fine he'll be one of the dudes and there's nothing to worry about but actually there's a lot to worry about because as you say there's this tall pines academy for troubled youth led by evelyn way played by tony collette brilliantly who is on full intense slightly creepy mode terrifying terrifying alex soon runs into a boy who has escaped and as soon as he meets him he knows something's really badly amiss because he says please do not send me back there and everyone tries to cover it up but alex knows something is going on and so he slowly starts to investigate even though uh he's being discouraged you know particularly by tony collette's character evelyn wade who's like no these people you know they they just need a firm hand etc etc it's it's fascinating i think the tension is just completely ramped up throughout this first episode and i was just given every reason to continue watching because i want to know what exactly is going on um at that um school there's another by the way there's another two characters we meet these two girls who are troubled who are almost certainly en route to this place it's like what the fuck is going on there and will Alex be able to stop it or get to the bottom of it.

1:41:10Ruth Bradley:I really enjoyed it.

1:41:12Christopher Chung:It's a really unexpected left turn, isn't it, from Mae Martin? Like, you know, from Feel Good and Stand Up. You know, Mae Martin is still doing loads and loads of stand-up all the time because I follow them on social media. Well, they're really good friends with Brett Goldstein as well, funnily enough. They've done loads of shows together. that so this suddenly enters into like twin peaks slash wayward pines territory and it's a completely surprising move but i love the fact that may martin has just boldly gone there because you kind of expect it to be a bit funny right a bit comedic but it isn't really at all it's just solid it's a solidly as you say sinister dramatic kind of weird twin pixie style thriller mystery thriller effectively yeah we with some drama you know with some you know dramatic stuff there as well but yeah it's it is it is a effectively a mystery thriller comedy it's definitely but bottom line is it's definitely not comedy yeah and i think it's quite rare i was trying to think of other examples of someone so known for their comedy that they then pivot to well they can't be pigeonholed no completely don't get me wrong and i think may martin is fabulous in it and it is a very unusual character.

1:42:29Christopher Chung:It's interesting that Mae Martin is they them now, and is playing a character who is he him, playing a man in the show. Yeah, playing a trans man. Playing a trans man, exactly. And so it's got that element to it, which makes it unusual, let's face it. But I thought it was fascinating, absolutely fascinating. And Toni Collette brilliantly cast. I mean, you know, she's always... She does terrifying very well. She does terrifying so well. Do you think there's something

1:42:57Ruth Bradley:mesmerizing about May? Yeah. Oh, completely.

1:43:00Christopher Chung:Yeah, and feel good in order. Yeah, absolutely. But it's interesting because May Martin said that this is a story they've been wanting to tell for years. It made me wonder whether they had any kind of, honestly, like, personal experience of this kind of place because the, you know, I referenced it in the introduction in a kind of slightly flippant way, but that kind of troubled teen industry is big business in America. Like, it is a huge thing where, you know, kids who are, quote-unquote, problem kids are shipped off to these places. And there are literal companies like teen transport companies who basically do extraordinary rendition on teenagers where they black bag them in the middle of the night.

1:43:35Christopher Chung:It's terrifying. Often lead to like permanent psychological trauma and PTSD for these kids and drag them off to these military academies where frankly they're rife with like physical and all kinds of abuse. It's absolutely horrendous that this happens. You know, reform schools are not, you know, I mentioned Steve, which is literally what that film was about earlier in the show. You know, they do exist in this country, but it does appear in America. It is very much like, it is a big business, this. And certainly there are examples in this of, there's a very fine line between a troubled teen and a shitty parent, right?

1:44:06Christopher Chung:Some of these kids, certainly the ones depicted in this, they're not troubled teens. They are teenagers with shitty parents who aren't prepared to actually parent their kids. And I found it quite upsetting, actually, watching this, the way that's done. But, but... It's mentally. Yeah, of course it is. Absolutely, it succeeds at what it does. Really enjoyed it. I think there's a compelling mystery and it's heart. I think the characters are great and it goes in places that you maybe don't expect as well. So yeah, good. Liked it.

1:44:31Ruth Bradley:Can't wait to watch more.

1:44:32Christopher Chung:Indeed. Wayward then, not Pines, Tall Pines in Wayward, Wayward on its own. Sorry, I'm having a slight Wayward Pines meltdown.

1:44:41Ruth Bradley:It's another episode.

1:44:42Christopher Chung:Yeah, it is in fact. I'm having another episode. Wayward then on Netflix. When, Boydie? September the 25th, which is, I believe, Thursday, September the 25th, 2025 Fantabulous Right Finally This week We've got season 5 Of Slow Horses On Apple TV Plus Which we've not discussed Or even really touched upon On this episode Of the podcast Which is nice This season does As we've mentioned See Roddy on the run And terrorists attacking London Otherwise known as An average week At Slough House Who wants to tell us About Slow Horses Boydie Why don't you do it And pretend that Ruth's in the room Oh

1:45:19Ruth Bradley:Mayo style

1:45:20Christopher Chung:Yeah do it Mayo style I'm not doing it Mayo style Well So the listeners will have heard our interview. They will. It will have already gone. It's very confusing. And there's Chris Chung interview as well, of course. Roddy Ho himself. Because, and one of the main reasons we wanted to speak to Christopher Chung is because Roddy is front and centre for the first time. Taking his rightful place. And although you're in the pocket of Big Chung, we are all in the pocket of Big Bradley. So, you know, we're all compromised. And we're all in the even bigger pocket of slow horses. Yeah, of big horses. big horses, slow horses, big slow horses.

1:45:55Christopher Chung:Whatever you want. We're all having an episode at this point. Yeah. It's very confusing. Because we've been in this room for about four years. We really have. And also I've had this ginger shot and frankly it's gone straight to my head.

1:46:03Ruth Bradley:Oh God.

1:46:04Christopher Chung:Carry on. But as Ruth herself mentioned, this is, I think this is the most out and out comedic series so far, arguably. And that's probably because Roddy, the character of Roddy, who is intrinsically funny and one of the most gigantic doofuses in the history of television.

1:46:21Ruth Bradley:That is the word for him.

1:46:22Christopher Chung:He is doofus. Man-child as well. He's a raging bellend. Yeah, but I think doofus is more, he's a goofball doofus. Delusional moron. Delusional, and yeah, but brilliantly funny creation from everyone involved from the books, but particularly the way Christopher Chan plays him as well. And in this, you see him in more ridiculous outfits that he wears. His hair is absurd. he's got like a massive sword thing that he wields oh yeah it's a big sort of like anime type style sword yeah it's amazing obviously he's embroiled in all of that and but and the whole kind of storyline revolves around him getting a new girlfriend and um and you know he meets in this club and then how can this girlfriend possibly not be some kind of suspicious character and the rest of the slow horses um particularly shirley particularly shirley have their doubts and then at the same time this is kind of in classic slow horses style the whole thing begins with a proper thriller um espionage spy story element where um london is being kind of terrorized by various in various incidents and you've got nick mohammed as the mayor campaigning to be elected and that whole and as his campaigning issues of violence in the capital feels very on feels very topical actually in that way that this this happens to be coming out right now

1:47:45Ruth Bradley:Yeah, because it starts with, there's basically a radicalised man who kind of goes on a killing spree in a tax centre.

1:47:52Christopher Chung:Exactly. So, you know, and as ever, I think, in Slow Haltes, what they do brilliantly is the bloody tonal shifts, you know. It's funny. All the stuff with Roddy is hilarious. The scenes where he's interrogated, et cetera, are brilliant. And everyone is at the top of their game. Because we know and love these characters so well now. It's just brilliantly pleasurable being in their company. and it's as funny as ever but at the same time all the stuff about London and the kind of terrorist activities that are going on and all of that works totally as a thriller in its own right running alongside the character development and the funny stuff so it's brilliantly pitched I enjoyed it as much as ever I think I guess the question is where is it ranked if I was ranking all the seasons I don't know I think it's up there it's possibly maybe my second favourite I really liked it it was the first you No, I think the third of the film I had season I loved.

1:48:47Christopher Chung:Then there's this and then I think I might prefer this to the last season. You know, anyway, they're all great. They're all very good. They're all very good. Empire's Nick the Samhain gave this particular season three stars because he is wrong. No, that's ridiculous. Professionally wrong. Nick, if you're listening to this, you're just wrong. That is wrong. That's a big bowl of wrong.

1:49:05Ruth Bradley:I obviously really enjoyed this. I loved it. I think this might be, well, I've only watched three episodes. I'll reserve judgment to see where, you know, sits in my child favourite series. But I will say episode three is an absolute doozy. We're going to do a spoiler special, aren't we? Of course. But the scenes between Roddy and Kristen Scott Thomas are sensational.

1:49:24Christopher Chung:Yes, they're magnificent.

1:49:26Ruth Bradley:The thing I love most about this is that we're really digging into the psychology of the slow horses in this one. They are all falling apart. I mean, they are just in such a bad state, kind of en route to the Knacker's yard, because we've got River, who's dealing with the fallout from his dad and his grandfather and he's not processing it and he's in denial about it and he's in real twat mode um then you've also got um louisa who needs a mental health break shirley who's on the edge and but she's masking her grief and is sort of slightly manic and no one really knows how to deal with her except for standish who is always just so compassionate because shirley is hellbent on this theory that roddy's being targeted and actually probably people should listen to her and then Lamb is Lamb just marinating in his juices refusing to take he is

1:50:12Christopher Chung:yeah I've just got that image in my head well he's Lamb

1:50:16Ruth Bradley:and is not taking marinated Lamb yes well there's little workings behind that he's doing he's just not taking her seriously and the apathy he's showing is just like it's so hard to watch because this woman is in a state of real turmoil yes I just like the focus on them being in this really distressed state and how they're going to get their way how they're going to get out of it and obviously the tension just ramps up as things progress with roddy i've all just bloody loved it and uh can't wait to i might binge it you know i

1:50:46Christopher Chung:said i've like you know i'm not binging yes you do because we should record three episodes to go i mean yeah i'm yeah i don't know how you can leave three episodes on watch right genuinely

1:50:55Ruth Bradley:don't understand i just don't want it to be over because the quicker i watch it the bigger the gap

1:50:59Christopher Chung:i understand that i'm gonna say that obviously there's a trailer for the sixth season at the end of this and it looks even more exciting yeah i said so ruth badly yes uh so yeah anyway uh

1:51:08Ruth Bradley:christopher chung for the win yeah and everyone yeah all of them but i mean how uh for roddy to

1:51:13Christopher Chung:get his moment in the sunshine i'm with you yeah i i yeah yeah it's not something against roddy who knows maybe it's too close to home oh i didn't think of it that way wow boy that's really hard so rude steady

1:51:26Ruth Bradley:and James gets fired

1:51:29Christopher Chung:slow horses then season 5 on Apple TV Plus when? Wednesday the 24th of September 2025 fabulous and very quickly before we get thrown out of the studio yes what have we missed this week? well Creatures Grain Small is back on 5 your favourite James I know but it is it's actually a lovely show Thursday the 25th of September at 9 o 'clock The Savant The Savant Savant The Savant which is on Apple TV Plus which is on on Friday and we're going to be covering that on Pilot Plus this week. Also heavily embargoed is House of Guinness from the very busy Stephen Knight. Yeah. And that is literally the story of the Guinness family and it also stars James Norton in a very interesting role.

1:52:11Christopher Chung:How about Shakespeare and Hathaway, Private Investigators? Yes, that's also on. Sister Boniface Mysteries as well as on You in Drama if you like that kind of thing. Brassett, Kay's favourite. Brassett. Final season of Brassett. Final season. Back on Sky Max. Max, yes it is Max, not Sky Comedy or Sky Atlantic, Sky Max and now from Thursday the 15th of, Thursday the 25th of September. Tulsa King, the new series just started actually on Sunday 21st. Is that Series 3? I think so. It's already been in Division 3 for a new run. Our favourite, Romesh Ranganathan is in Romesh Can't Knock the Hustle, which is the story behind this latest stand-up show.

1:52:45Christopher Chung:That's on Sky Max and now from Tuesday at 10 o 'clock. Oh, Waterloo Road's back on Tuesday as well on BBC One if you like that kind of thing which intriguingly actually I am genuinely Don't scoff for that

1:52:55Ruth Bradley:I'm not scoffing I watched the first episode I think

1:52:58Christopher Chung:No I'm not scoffing me we'll leave that to James Yeah that's my job yeah but genuinely interestingly John Richardson Yes is in it

1:53:06Ruth Bradley:He's joined the staff room

1:53:08Christopher Chung:Exactly so he's acting and that's very exciting indeed I think that's about it Pick of the week Stay Horses Low Horses Yes Unanimous Okay that is it for this week's show we hope you enjoyed it if you did please do leave us a five star rating on whatever podcast platform you so choose and do feel free to follow us at james c dyer on instagram and the talk don't forget that uh at carabarrow at boyd hilton at pilot tv pod you can message us if you want your question read out when we obviously do questions uh pilot tv at empire magazine.com on thursday show as boyd mentioned we'll be talking about the savant and apple tv plus with jessica chastain and next week there are many things happening and shows that we really need to organise but crucially Kay won't be here because she'll be in some kind of sensory isolation tank having some kind of treatment or facial or a massage or I don't know what she's going to be doing.

1:53:58Christopher Chung:All of the above. All of the above. Bombard her with emails, messages. Feel free to like pick her, light her phone on. You're going to get my out of office.

1:54:06Ruth Bradley:Do you know what? My out of office, I'm actually just going to put both your email addresses in.

1:54:10Christopher Chung:I bet you will as well. Get in touch with that guys.

1:54:13Ruth Bradley:Get in touch.

1:54:13Christopher Chung:Well, we'll have stuff next week anyway. so it's all fine

1:54:15Ruth Bradley:an upgrade

1:54:16Christopher Chung:an upgrade indeed oh no no don't be ridiculous pilot out