The Dark, Human Vapor, and X-Men ‘97. With guest Esther Smith

6:37Esther Smith:Is it her or is it Chris Graham's amazing?

6:39Pilot TV Hosts:Graham's trying his best, but he is nervous. I mean, you would be. He's interviewed before quite a few times. Okay. Or a couple of times, I think, at least. But she is not one of nature's great conversationalists, is all I would say. Oh, God. She's kind of like, she's quite a one-word answer person for a lot of the time. So you'll go, it must have been amazing when I was doing this. Yeah, it was amazing. And you're like, just give him something. It's like David Chase, isn't it? It is. This is extraordinary. I could not believe how little of interest emerged from this whole thing. it kind of makes a fascinating viewing in a way to show how you can have the most famous it's a huge exclusive by the way I think this is her first interview certainly first on camera for years and years she does not she never does interviews and it's part I was thinking when people don't do interviews you think because they're so famous they don't need to you know why should she maintain why did she do this maintains her mystique I guess she thought I'll do something to promote my album her album's out this week oh okay right you know but then you think that's the real reason she doesn't do any interviews because she's not that weird people.

7:46Pilot TV Hosts:She's not one of Nature's great conversations. So, yeah, it was quite bizarre, the whole thing.

7:52Esther Smith:Because her video for that song that she released is amazing. Incredible people, yeah.

7:57Pilot TV Hosts:And she kind of touches on that briefly, but even then it's not that interesting an answer and stuff. So, yeah, she's got great people in that video. I think she's a bit tired.

8:06Esther Smith:I don't know if she's tired. I think she's just... Not as an artist, just generally just feeling fatigued. yeah she's a bit like over it and a bit like oh god I don't know

8:16Pilot TV Hosts:I think maybe she's always been a bit like this where she's she's not yeah she's not an anecdotalist that's another way of putting it you know the whole Graham Norton show of course and by the way this is nothing like they're not just sitting there having a chat it's like it's got quite a contrived format whereby you see him on his way to meet her we call it Coco in Camden near our old office and there's a whole thing about the venue there's a lot of mucking about There's a lot of stuff happening before they actually get down to a chat. And even then when they get down to a chat, they're standing there on stage chatting away.

8:50Pilot TV Hosts:And it's just a bit awkward. All the way through, it's a bit awkward. And as I say, in Graham Norton's show, if she'd bid on that as a guest, which I think she has done before, then it'd probably be better because everyone's, the whole point of that show is you're all telling your best anecdotes, right? That's literally how it works. In the pre-interview chat with the researchers, they extract these anecdotes from the guests, and he queues them up. He prompts them up, yeah. That's what happens. In this, it's like there are no anecdotes. Oh, God. It's just like overall themes. But do you think it's because she has never,

9:21Esther Smith:she's not met anyone more famous than her and she kind of does, so it's just been like, do you know what I mean? It's like, if you're Madonna, who are you going to fangirl over? I mean, if she's met Belmont.

9:30Pilot TV Hosts:She's really nice with Kylie. The Kylie scene is the highlight because she's lovely with her and apart from having not the drink and she hates the drink. that's a nice moment but even then she said that's weird as well because she goes Graham goes does this mean you know you've recorded a song together for the album she goes I'm not telling you why do you keep she says something like why do you keep asking me questions or something like that and you're like it's trying to be funny but even then this is a fucking interview I can't watch it

10:00Esther Smith:it sounds too cringy it is quite cringy is it

10:02Pilot TV Hosts:it really is quite cringy but anyway I watched that so you didn't have to

10:05Esther Smith:okay

10:06Pilot TV Hosts:thanks

10:06Esther Smith:appreciate it

10:07Pilot TV Hosts:I can reveal exclusively that I finished Paradise. Wow. Finally.

10:13Esther Smith:Okay, over to you for Widow's Bay.

10:15Pilot TV Hosts:Do you know what? I do need to get on the Widow's Tray wagon. Not least of all, because it is now, as we record the 1st of July, which means we need to do our half-year review. And so, there are two approaches to this. Either we present four distinct and separate lists. Or, or, we try and have a combined pilot list. Or, and I've just had an idea. Oh, God. Right, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to have blind lists. I've just decided. We're going to have blind lists. You're going to do one. You're going to do one. Kay's going to do one. I'm going to do one. And none of you are going to know what the other people have voted for.

10:51Pilot TV Hosts:Except everyone will say off campus. And then I'm going to tally them together using just mathematics and I'm going to create a master list.

11:00Esther Smith:What would the other way of tallying them together be if you didn't use just mathematics? Shut up, Steph.

11:04Pilot TV Hosts:and no it's going to be because you're not going to know you're not going to know what it is ahead of time yes that's how we're going to do it

11:12Esther Smith:this feels like something

11:13Pilot TV Hosts:there can be no conferring

11:14Esther Smith:but you could fix this

11:15Pilot TV Hosts:I could but I won't because I'm pathologically honest and you'll also know because I'll undoubtedly be furious about the list afterwards but yeah that's what we're going to do

11:23Esther Smith:you me and Kay will get together beforehand and just try and you know okay and there's going to be two rules yeah

11:28Pilot TV Hosts:one rule no conferring yeah second rule and this is the most important rule and it applies primarily to you, no tactical voting. Which means if you put something at number two, it has to be the one that you genuinely think will be at number two. Not because you think, well, no one else will vote for it and I want it to be higher up the list. It can be no tactical voting. It has to represent... I like the way he's implying that I usually... Yeah, that's exactly what I'm implying. And we will go through this. I think you tactically vote more than I do. I will not be tactically voting. I will not be...

11:58I will put it down, call it as I say it.

12:01Esther Smith:I think we can tell you now that Silo's not going to be on it.

12:04Pilot TV Hosts:I think you'll find it might. I actually really like Silo. I like Silo as well. There we go. It might be on the list. Silo's not an issue. There are other issues.

12:12Esther Smith:No, there are other issues. Okay.

12:14Pilot TV Hosts:Well, let's see. All right, that's exciting. I feel like before we do the list, I should watch at least a couple more Widow's Bays to see if... You have to get to... You've watched the whole thing yet?

12:23Esther Smith:No, I've got one left because remember I went on to Off Camera.

12:25Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, the former champion here. I know, I know. I think the penultimate one, which is, I would describe, we're spoiling it, the Halloween-y type one if you're talking about the different genres it explores various horror genres and there's one episode I think it's the Halloween-y one is phenomenal and I think if you watch that one I watched that one and I thought this is the one James has got to watch because it's so well done I think even by the

12:49Esther Smith:second episode with the clown thing this is not too much of a spoiler when he's in the crawl space I think from that point you're like oh god this is horror and it's done do you know what I mean

12:59Pilot TV Hosts:or if I do that yeah yeah I haven't finished one I'm watching it no keep going though thanks man oh yeah so Paradise so we can do a special Paradise at some point we've got so many specials to do now it's ridiculous because Widow's Bay

13:13Esther Smith:we're doing Widow's Bay

13:14Pilot TV Hosts:but I have issues with it as well so we need to discuss it there's a lot to discuss with that show you know what you haven't finished watching no The Pit yeah The Pit which has finished as this podcast goes out I've had an HBO Max disaster yeah what's happening with the HBO Max I feel like this is a relatively easy thing to fix

13:30Esther Smith:I don't think it is because he would have fixed it. What is it?

13:34Pilot TV Hosts:I couldn't fix it. And then now the thing has gone by. I'm just going to have to pay for it now. It's fine. I will pay for it. I don't care. It's fine. Okay. Yeah. But the statute of limitations, if you like, of when you can sign on for free with HBO Max has gone.

13:48Esther Smith:Oh, with the crossover with the Sky thing. Hang on.

13:51Pilot TV Hosts:I left it too late. Hang on. No, no, no, no, no. Like, it's part of the Sky package. So you can definitely get it. No, it's not that simple. No, but to get the premium version... Oh, right. I wonder, are you telling me you don't watch the 4K version? So, just to be clear, your issue is not that you can't get HBO Max, it's that you cannot get it in 4K. No, no, no, no, no. I could have got it in 4... I could have got it the premium version of HBO Max was offered to me kindly by HBO Max. Yes. And I tried to do it and I couldn't get it to work and now it's gone. Right. Now I have to pay for it. And, of course, I'm not going to pay for the version where you don't get 4K.

14:30Pilot TV Hosts:But that's free. Like, you have that by default because you have Sky. I know that, but what I'm saying is, yeah, I have to pay for the 4K version, obviously. Like, you would, obviously. Yeah, but I'm just saying, if you needed to watch the finale of The Pit, you could just watch it in 1080p and it wouldn't kill you. Oh, right. Oh, okay.

14:45Esther Smith:Right, I'm going to break this up. This is boring. No, it's not. It's that, you know what?

14:49Pilot TV Hosts:Your entitlement, I think, is a fundamentally good talking point. Listen, Castle boy,

14:53Esther Smith:if you listen to Pilot Plus, you'll know that James has recently been to a party Duna Castle. We're going to get onto that

14:57Pilot TV Hosts:because it's relevant to the listener question.

14:59Esther Smith:Anyway, I'm with you, Boyd. So what else? Is that all you've been watching? My love. No, I'm finished.

15:04Pilot TV Hosts:No, keep going. Slow Horses. Okay. As any of us, those of us have got it. How many of you have watched? This is the thing that obviously listeners hate, but we kind of have to. Some of them don't mind it. No, that's true. Some of them don't mind it. That is true. I think more of them don't mind it than do mind it. Yeah. Well, we got a very exciting email last week from Apple basically saying that all six episodes a new series of slow horses has dropped on the screening site. I haven't got it. For people who aren't deaf. You're my PA.

15:31Esther Smith:Yeah, I'm just going to remind everyone, I'm with you guys because I don't have it because these two, you know, hoity-toity pair, I've got it. I haven't got it. Monsters. We're special.

15:39Pilot TV Hosts:But yes, I did watch them all on the weekend and it was... I knew you were going to watch them all. I've limited my... I watched the first one and I haven't watched the rest yet. How did you even do that? Because there's World Cup games every day. And you're a dreamboat. That's why. Thanks. It was a truly magnificent six hours that was a delight. Now I'm going to have to... Anyway, all right. It's a play, but I'm going to mention it. I went to see a play last night. Russell Tovey, not Russell T. Davis. Getting your Russells mixed up. Getting your Russells mixed up. Because apparently I always say Russell T.

16:10Pilot TV Hosts:Davis, according to...

16:11Esther Smith:That was also on Plus.

16:12Pilot TV Hosts:This is Russell T. Ovey. This is Russell T. Ovey, exactly. He is in a one-man show at the Donmar Warehouse called The Guilty, which was also a 2021 film starring Jake Gyllenhaal. Do you remember this? The whole thing is him on... He's a policeman on dealing with emergencies. Yeah, in a call centre. Do you love a call centre? I love a call centre. You know I love a call centre. And this is set... Whole place set in a call centre where Russell Tovey is dealing with a horrendous call which seems to me like a case of domestic abuse, etc. Oh, that's fantastic. And he is fantastic. Oh, he's so great.

16:48Pilot TV Hosts:I think it's possibly the greatest thing he's ever done. Really? Obviously, I am very friendly with him and everything. I'm not friends with him at all

16:54Esther Smith:and I still think he's fantastic.

16:55Pilot TV Hosts:It was so brilliant. So that I strongly recommend, the guilty of the Donmar. And finally, let me ask you this question.

17:00Esther Smith:Oh, is it going to be when you do Who Wants a Millionaire question? Because I love it when you do those.

17:04Pilot TV Hosts:No, it's not really. But it's more of a what happened, what show arrived 25 years ago this Thursday? 25 years ago. So that would be what? 2001? Yeah. Thursday the 9th of July. 2001 25 years ago 2001

17:24Esther Smith:Give us a genre It's too early

17:26Pilot TV Hosts:Comedy A comedy

17:28Esther Smith:25 years ago

17:30Pilot TV Hosts:Was it The Office? It's The Office

17:32Esther Smith:It's The Office I was about Friends Friends is much older than that How old is Friends?

17:34Pilot TV Hosts:That's 90s Yeah 25 years ago So I ritually Knowing this There's a Mackenzie Crook and Morgan Morgan Martin Freeman Morgan Freeman Morgan Freeman I'd love to see him talk about The Office Yeah The two of them have come together for a special show on BBC Two on the Wednesday, the 8th of July this week, talking about their time. And it's the first time they've seen each other for years. What? They've just not... Yeah, they've just... Busy? Had separate, you know, paths, I guess. So they just have not chatted or spoken, not for any reason of enmity or anything. Yeah. So it's quite incredible. So those two come together for this special on Wednesday on BBC Two.

18:11Pilot TV Hosts:And then I ritually, I thought, I'm just going to watch the first episode. Yeah, treat yourself. Treat myself. And it's just fucking incredibly good. It's so good. it's unreal but yeah so I think we should all watch the whole maybe at least of the first series of The Office do you like

18:28Esther Smith:The American Office?

18:29Pilot TV Hosts:I do like The American Office a lot yeah I do too I find that very comforting

18:33Esther Smith:The American Office because it's right it's less cringy in an American voice it is yeah oh I know

18:40Pilot TV Hosts:I'm not used to

18:41Esther Smith:you agreeing with me no I'm familiar

18:43Pilot TV Hosts:and it's tonally different and also it evolves doesn't it when it kind of moves beyond the shackles of replicating the UK story it becomes its own thing. Oh, it's fantastic, yeah. Yeah, and lots of people do use it as a comfort show. I have, 25 years on, still never watched The Office. What? I have seen several episodes because we did a comparison on this podcast. We did the first episode of the US and the UK and talked about the distinctions between them. But as you know, I can't deal with the comedy.

19:09Esther Smith:You have to watch The Office. You absolutely have to do it. That is absolutely... It's incredible. I mean, you've never watched The Office.

19:18Pilot TV Hosts:No, I think I've seen maybe three episodes of the UK office and probably about the same of the US office. And that's it. It's astonishing.

19:27Esther Smith:I don't have any words for that.

19:29Pilot TV Hosts:There are no words.

19:30Esther Smith:No, okay. Let's just move on.

19:32Pilot TV Hosts:So anyway, yeah, that is what I've been watching.

19:34Esther Smith:Okay, wow.

19:37Pilot TV Hosts:Steph. Steph. Okay.

19:38Esther Smith:Sorry, I was just really taking it in.

19:40Pilot TV Hosts:These are the shots you have to do. Every now and then the show comes up that he just has not watched.

19:45Esther Smith:I mean, it's so much worse than Broadchurch. church isn't it yeah okay um right so i have to admit that i thought we were doing a show that we're going to be doing next week can i say what the show is i'll say what the show is okay um the little house on the prairie i thought we were doing that right so i spent a lot of my time even though i made it clear that it was embargoed okay right and as i said the word embargo gets banded around all the time and i'm never really quite sure earlier on in this in this show you you had

20:15Pilot TV Hosts:to go at me for not reading up in the WhatsApp group messages. Yes. This is a classic of you not reading up in the WhatsApp. Listen. Because I'm asked very early, by the way, in the week, to tell you what is and isn't in bargain, and then you just ignore it when I actually find out. It's quite... Anyway.

20:32Esther Smith:Anyway, so I watched... I've watched every single episode of Little House on the Prairie.

20:37Pilot TV Hosts:Little House on the Prairie. Wow.

20:39Esther Smith:Shocker.

20:39Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, I've watched the first episode, but...

20:41Esther Smith:I've watched every single episode of that.

20:43Pilot TV Hosts:is that our duty or desire that you needed to watch all of them I can't

20:49Esther Smith:because we're going to do it next week and I feel like I can't reveal any of that but you know what happens when I've watched all episodes or something but the other thing that I've watched which I'm so excited about which you two will absolutely not care about at all is the third season of America's Sweethearts Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders right now I know what you're saying no no no no no it's not no no because these women are athletes and it's so amazing and what's brilliant about this show, okay, is from season one, season two, season three, you're seeing the evolution of these female athletes and they're taking back power in last season.

21:23Esther Smith:It's a documentary series. It's a documentary series and they have just become this absolute global sensation. So much so that when they're, when this season opens, they've now got a stage show and these women are becoming, you know, massive influences in their own right and not in like a tacky shit way. Like in a, you know, they're doing good. Last season was all about them fighting for a you know a pay rise and they get like a 400 percent pay rise it's a it's just a great story it's not a kind of run-of-the-mill reality documentary these women are athletes they're incredible dancers it's so it's just in terms of looking at the Dallas Cowboys as a business model and how they make their money it's fascinating and obviously the business model it's really it's really good it's really enjoyable um and it's kind of the the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders are run by these two amazing women um who are who were um themselves dallas cowboys cheerleaders and it's it isn't i know reality is not your bag but it's definitely worth a watch it is if you like just for just for the fact that these women are just they're so inspiring they all have like they're lawyers they you know they've all got proper jobs as well as being these dallas cowboys cheerleaders this is not this is not a reality show per se so i've been watching that and it's brilliant.

22:39Esther Smith:I'm very happy it's back. Very happy. And Little House on the Prairie.

22:43Pilot TV Hosts:Little House on the Prairie. All episodes.

22:44Esther Smith:Yes. Yeah. James.

22:47Pilot TV Hosts:You'll be shocked to hear I've not been watching that.

22:49Esther Smith:I am shocked.

22:50Pilot TV Hosts:You are shocked. What have I been watching? I mean, mainly Slow Horses, if I'm honest with you. Which I can't really talk about. Obviously the Bear finale. Did we talk about that last week? I don't think we did, but we did on Pilot Plus do an entire spoiler deep dive into the final season of the Bear and the Bear finale. So that's what we reviewed on Pilot Plus last week. So, yes. That was something that I watched, and I very much enjoyed it. I thought it was great. The other thing I've been pressing on was Spider Noir. I got to the Nightmare on a Gurney episode, and it is a good episode. I think I've got one and a half episodes left to watch of Spider Noir.

23:21Esther Smith:I've given up on Spider Noir.

23:23Pilot TV Hosts:I'm still not feeling Alex's five-star show there. It's good, but also... That's Alex Godry from Empire. Yeah, and he's great. It's possible I'll never think about the show again once I've finished watching it.

23:34Esther Smith:Yeah, and I like things to have a bit of a lasting effect, and I want this to be good. I wanted this to be better than it was.

23:41Pilot TV Hosts:It's fine.

23:42Esther Smith:It's fine.

23:43Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it's fine. And the other thing I'm doing, I have been immersing myself in the world of The Witcher. Of course you have. Wow. But, crucially, not a re-watch of The Witcher. Instead, I have been replaying the game The Witcher 3 on my PlayStation, which is set after the story of the books and, in fact, the TV series have finished.

24:01Esther Smith:What are PlayStation's up to now?

24:03Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, largely letting me play The Witcher 3.

24:05Esther Smith:But are they, what are they, like PlayStation 4, 5? 5. Oh, I see, yes, it's 5.

24:09Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah.

24:10Esther Smith:Okay. Not in general. What are PlayStation doing in their spare time? What have they been doing? Yeah.

24:14Pilot TV Hosts:Well, you know, hanging out, playing games largely. I mean, yeah. Okay.

24:18Esther Smith:So on your PS5? I've been playing The Witcher 3, yes.

24:21Pilot TV Hosts:Okay.

24:21Esther Smith:Is that a tappy-tappy game? Is it a joystick game?

24:24Pilot TV Hosts:Is it a tappy-tappy game?

24:25Esther Smith:You know, you know the ones where you have to go.

24:27Pilot TV Hosts:It's not some kind of dance simulator, no. Although, frankly, if they haven't made one of those yet, I strongly recommend a Witcher dance game.

24:35Esther Smith:You know what I mean? Or is it, you know, one of those ones?

24:38Pilot TV Hosts:I'm sorry, please explain. What are they called? You're gesticulating in a strange way.

24:42Esther Smith:You know the game?

24:43Pilot TV Hosts:A controller. Controller.

24:44Esther Smith:It's a controller game.

24:45Pilot TV Hosts:You do need to control the character, yes. Okay, fine. Telepathy having not yet been invented.

24:49Esther Smith:What do you... Well, you don't know. What do you do in this game?

24:53Pilot TV Hosts:It is a sprawling open-world fantasy RPG.

24:57Esther Smith:Well, that sounds nice.

24:58Pilot TV Hosts:No, it is. Yeah, it is. Headset? No, no headset. There's no one to talk to. It's single-player. Oh, I'd love to see you on a headset. No, I don't have a headset.

25:08Esther Smith:Oh, you definitely have a headset. No, I don't. I do not believe you.

25:10Pilot TV Hosts:No, I genuinely don't. You know I don't like to speak to other people if I can avoid it. That's true, you don't. What am I saying? So I definitely don't want to hear when I'm playing online games that most of the people I'm playing games with are like children. Yes, I don't want to know that. I like to assume that they are all my age and that's it. Okay, all right. But yeah, I've been playing The Witcher 3, which I have obviously played before since it's like an 11-year-old game.

25:30Esther Smith:When you sit down to start to play on your games console, Yes. How long do you go for?

25:35Pilot TV Hosts:With my clicky, tappy-tappy thing.

25:37Esther Smith:Yeah, with your tappy-tappy. How long do you go for? That would very much depend.

25:40Pilot TV Hosts:I ploughed a good number of hours into it over the weekend, I will say that.

25:44Esther Smith:In one sitting?

25:46Pilot TV Hosts:There was definitely at least one six-hour sitting, yes.

25:50Esther Smith:Six hours? Yeah. You could have watched Widow's Bay.

25:53Pilot TV Hosts:I could have done. And the thing was, I didn't even intend to do it. I just booted it up for whatever reason and then got sucked back into the world of the continent.

26:00Esther Smith:Okay, you need to make sure that you are using eyedrops because that is a lot of screen time.

26:05Pilot TV Hosts:It was quite a lot.

26:06Esther Smith:Continuous for six hours. Do you have any breaks?

26:09Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, I blinked a few times. Does that count?

26:11Esther Smith:I mean, okay. All right, well, I'm glad you're happy. Well, thank you. That makes me happy.

26:14Pilot TV Hosts:I enjoyed it. So, yeah, that's why I've been watching slash playing this week.

26:19Esther Smith:Nice.

26:19Pilot TV Hosts:Should we have a listener question?

26:20Esther Smith:Let's do it.

26:21Pilot TV Hosts:Okay. This week's listener question comes from Mark. And Mark says, Greetings, pilot people. As I wait excitedly to board a plane from here in San Jose, California, to Utah, Amir, two and a half hours away, to live all things Yellowstone in the park and on a ranch, I wondered what location would you like to visit to indulge in that show's oeuvre? I mean, this is you two question. Okay. I mean... Well, I mean, both of us would like to go to Wyoming, wouldn't we?

26:48Esther Smith:Oh, God, I would absolutely love to do that. Yeah, oh, God, wouldn't that be amazing? People keep sending me things of, like, how we can get to Dutton Ranch.

26:53Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, we get, like, a pilot holiday on the Dutton Ranch. Somebody sent me something the other day,

26:57Esther Smith:which is how you can have a Yellowstone holiday in the UK.

27:00Pilot TV Hosts:Yes, someone sent me that as well. Did they send you that as well?

27:02Esther Smith:Yeah, that was good.

27:03Pilot TV Hosts:I was tempted by that.

27:04Esther Smith:It looks really good, doesn't it? God, this connection we've got over it.

27:09Pilot TV Hosts:Is the actual Yellowstone National Park where Yellowstone is set? Because there is a Yellowstone National Park. Yeah, but there's a part of it.

27:17Esther Smith:So if you watch Yellowstone, there's a part that's designated to the park, isn't there, in the show?

27:23Pilot TV Hosts:Because I've been to the park. I've been to Yellowstone.

27:25Esther Smith:Oh, have you? Yeah, yeah. Okay, well then why aren't you watching the show with us?

27:28Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, Boyd. It's too late, I just left it too late. Really? That's because the frontier's now largely gone. Yeah, that's true. I'm sure it has.

27:36Esther Smith:I think I'm banned from saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway. Cabot Cove. Cabot Cove, Maine is where I'd go as well. Murder, She Wrote.

27:43Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, of course. Boyd's looking at me like... What's a Cabot Cove? Yeah. Where is it? Is it in Maine?

27:49Esther Smith:Cabot Cove. I think the real one is not in there. I'm going to have to number crunch.

27:52Pilot TV Hosts:It's going to be like in Halifax or something, isn't it?

27:54Esther Smith:No. Cabot Cove real I'm sure Cabot Cove real is

28:05Esther Smith:Mendocino I hope I'm saying that right so that sound right Mendocino in California okay yeah okay well I'd go there

28:11Pilot TV Hosts:California being routinely mistaken for Maine yeah okay

28:15Esther Smith:yeah that's where I'd go oh hang on what's it code oh Perkins Cove yeah I'd go there just a cove any kind of cove and I'm there any cove you like

28:23Pilot TV Hosts:isn't this just about Yellowstone locations though? I don't think so. No. He's saying like where would you go? Where would you go? So for example were I to want to lord over people in a kind of upstairs downstairs situation I would go to Hampshire and hang out in Highclere Castle because obviously that is Downton Abbey. Oh I see. Which is somewhere I have always wanted to visit and have yet to do so. Haven't you? No I do need to go to Highclere Castle. Hampshire is like not that far. I have visited Highclere Castle. Of course you have. I did I think it might have been the maybe second or third season of Downton Abbey I used to do the Richard Bacon show every week on 5 Live and I was the TV reviewer for like 6-7 years and one week we did the whole show live from Highclere Castle as they were filming Downton and it was absolutely brilliant I have to say so you wandered it, we literally did recorded half of it inside the massive room of the castle and then we'd retreat to a kind of the general hanging out area if you like and then Hugh Bonneville would come over and have a chat and then you know it was fantastic it was a brilliant brilliant day at Heiter Castle what went wrong that you're slumming it now with us well we should replace me with someone else Scotty Ryan it's fine I'm not resentful at all okay um but yeah no it was a it was really exciting okay so but would that be your

29:38Esther Smith:where would be your location to actually visit if you could from any tv show um I kind of haven't

29:45Pilot TV Hosts:really thought through about it because I thought this was so you just ignored it skimmed the Good question, misunderstood it and moved on. But you must have more. You must have a whole list of them, surely. Well, I mean, obviously, I spent the weekend reliving my Wolf Hall fantasies because, yes, I stayed at Heaver Castle on the weekend, which is where they shot Wolf Hall. One castle after another. Yes, which is former home of Anne Boleyn. Yeah. And, you know, Emily Day.

30:07Esther Smith:In your bougie, your friend's bougie birthday.

30:08Pilot TV Hosts:Because my friend, yeah, my friend had a bougie birthday there and had hired out Heaver Castle, so I got to hang out there after hours. We got a private tour. It was great.

30:16Esther Smith:Did you? Did you have an audio tour, which is my favourite type of tour?

30:19Pilot TV Hosts:No, we had a guide.

30:20Esther Smith:oh my god you're so bougie

30:21Pilot TV Hosts:because it was like a private tour it'd be a bit of shit private tour if they just packed us off with like a Walkman so there you go listen to this

30:27Esther Smith:just so I could do it on my own and just you know

30:30Pilot TV Hosts:void I've thought of an answer good I would go to the Hamptons oh yeah

30:35Esther Smith:well let me just tell you right why would you go to the Hamptons for what show

30:42Pilot TV Hosts:well I'm half first of all I need to cheat because I'm not supposed to mention Seinfeld but there's a hilarious episode of Seinfeld where they go to the Hamptons and George and his late, his ex-partner who dies, right? Her parents, who are furious with him and blame him for her death, insist on taking him to, he lies to them saying he's got a place in the Hamptons and he hasn't got a place in the Hamptons at all and they go on this journey to this place that he hasn't got and it's like, how far will he go in lying to them? They're like, okay, George, and they know he's lying. It's just hilarious.

31:14Pilot TV Hosts:It's such a, but it is all about him having a fake place, not having a place in the Hamptons at all. But there are loads of those.

31:20Esther Smith:I can't believe you haven't been to the Hamptons.

31:21Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, I can't believe it either. I've been to kind of similar places. I've been to Nantucket, and in fact, we'll be covering Nantucket. There's a show called The Five Star Weekend coming up with Jennifer Garmer that's set in Nantucket. Do you remember The Perfect Wife, was it called? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:35Esther Smith:Perfect Couple?

31:36Pilot TV Hosts:Perfect Couple. That was from the same author, and that was also set in Nantucket in a very similar kind of huge big house. So Nantucket is another one, but I have been there.

31:44Esther Smith:Okay.

31:44Pilot TV Hosts:So I didn't include that. But there must be loads of those shows.

31:48Esther Smith:One of my best trips ever, so my best friend lives in America, Nicole, she and I went to Montauk where the affair was filmed and we went to the restaurant and it was incredible. And we had like the cray fit. Oh my God, it was just, and they were filming the affair whilst we were there. And it was so exciting because I love, love, love that show. Did you like the affair?

32:13Pilot TV Hosts:I don't believe I've seen the affair. I think I might have watched the first one, but I don't think I've seen it. they're just showing it now aren't they on ITVX they yeah it's an incredible show

32:23Esther Smith:James can you please please watch the effect I have not Dominic West at his finest it's amazing it's absolutely fabulous do you think you'd like it?

32:34Pilot TV Hosts:yeah I think so

32:35Esther Smith:yeah definitely you should watch that

32:37Pilot TV Hosts:it's on the sofa list if that's helpful at all

32:39Esther Smith:okay can you please do that please yeah so Montauk is amazing that's brilliant yeah

32:42Pilot TV Hosts:also that show Revenge was set in the house oh my god that's a great with Emily Van Camp. Yes. Yes. That show is, I see that one, I'm saying, that is deranged.

32:53Esther Smith:In the best way, though.

32:55Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, it's not good, but it's strangely compelling.

32:58Esther Smith:It's totally good. Is it? Yeah. Is it, though? Yeah. You and I are not vibing today. We've really got to get it back together

33:04Pilot TV Hosts:for our Dutton Ranch episode. And there was that show, Sirens, on Netflix, that was in the Hamptons as well. Because a lot of these, because there's the whole genre, I mean, as I say, we'll hopefully review the Five Star Weekend. coming up but that is the latest in this whole genre of rich privileged women gathering in huge big lush porno um property porn yeah places like this let me tell you i went to sag harbour which

33:31Esther Smith:is in the hamptons and in my like you could smell the wealth like i've never everybody had like their their yachts it was just it was like it was like being on a film set where everyone was massively rich but it was actually these people's lives and i just and there was a reality show

33:48Pilot TV Hosts:wasn't there about property on on that in the hamptons how difficult it is to buy anywhere

33:53Esther Smith:well you can't insure it because you can't get insurance so you have to be that rich that you don't mind if your house because it's very flat you can't get insurance you can't get house insurance on property in the hamptons because it's so close to seawater right and it's very flat there so any damage that happens to it no you won't get insured you just can't get insured so you have to be rich enough to be able to write for the house it's on a flood

34:16Pilot TV Hosts:plane is what you're saying

34:17Esther Smith:you just can't you can't do it so you can get content insurance but not building insurance it's like you're asking me like you're thinking about buying a house in the Hamptons let's be honest

34:26Pilot TV Hosts:I'm really upset the sales almost gone through I don't know what to do like you're saying I can't get insurance oh my god no I'm not buying a house in the Hamptons

34:33Esther Smith:no so well you can't and yeah you can't get insurance so there you go

34:38Pilot TV Hosts:he could if you had the money

34:39Esther Smith:he doesn't have the money no

34:42Pilot TV Hosts:nor do I I think that's fair Boyd can buy me one I think that's you know accurate

34:46Esther Smith:no one here is on Hampton's money okay no one

34:50Pilot TV Hosts:oh god how do we even get I don't oh because we're locations that's right this is the question

34:55Esther Smith:so you've got Hamptons I've got Cabot Cove yes you've got

34:59Pilot TV Hosts:I can't even remember I was at Highclere Castle but like Northern Ireland has all the Game of Thrones locations well not all of them You must have been to some of those, surely. No, no, no. I was invited on set of Game of Thrones, but it was when they weren't shooting. So it was like, you basically could come on. No, so basically come and do a set visit, but we're not shooting at the moment. So it's like...

35:18Esther Smith:Come on and see nothing. I was like, um...

35:21Pilot TV Hosts:But apparently it was like to basically tour the sets and things like that. And so I probably should have gone, because in reality, I would have got to sit on the Iron Throne, that would have been fun. But I didn't actually do it, because I felt that would make for a challenging feature. Here we are on the set. there's no one about I'm talking to you could have the local shopkeeper you know it could have been anything yeah it would have been it would have been a very weird set visit I'm wandering around on my tod no one to talk to that is so funny when I was at Highclere Castle here's the thing we had a tour from the owner a private tour a private tour from the owner Lord Grantham of the actual real life owner oh really yeah yeah yeah the actual real life owner and he said in all seriousness it's so massive he's talking about there's literally hundreds of rooms in it and he pointed to the top of it and there's like loads and loads of floors he pointed it up and he said see that room there and we were like you know in between blah blah blah and we go yes he said I've never been in that room he's like I've owned this place for you know however long ten dozens and dozens of years it's been in the family for hundreds of years and I've just never been in that room and we were like why haven't you ever been he said it's just one of these things I just haven't made it there yet and now it's like Until now.

36:34Pilot TV Hosts:Is that the only room he's not been in? Yeah. So he must now deliberately avoid that room. Kind of, yeah. So that he can say that. Yeah, basically. Right. Seemed to be the case, yeah. I was like, that's a great fact.

36:43Esther Smith:Can you imagine having a house that big that you've not been in some of the rooms?

36:47Pilot TV Hosts:Exactly. That's wild. None of you have mentioned the White Lotus, although, of course, I have stayed at the White Lotus. Of course you have. The Thai one.

36:56Esther Smith:That's what I was about to say. Well, I've been to Thailand.

36:58Pilot TV Hosts:You've also stayed at that hotel, haven't you?

36:59Esther Smith:No, I haven't. Which one is it? I think you have.

37:01Pilot TV Hosts:You have stayed at the... The Tannantara one. Yeah, but it's the one, so they shoot across two. They're shooting the Koh Samui one and there's also the Phuket one. Okay, I stayed at both of those. Well, exactly, so you stayed at both of the...

37:13Esther Smith:I haven't watched White Lotus, remember?

37:15Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, well, you can say you.

37:16Esther Smith:I'm being a James. That's worse than him in The Office. That is not worse than The Office. I think it's worse. You think me having not watched a recent show is worse than him not having watched an absolute comedy classic?

37:27Pilot TV Hosts:I think it's up there. I think it's on a par. Yeah, I do. We're breaking up friends, you and I. next year we're saying you haven't watched Succession you know where does this end oh god or the West Wing fucking oh my god Jesus Christ that's a whole thing we need to move on from this I'm going to honourable mentions I'm going to say the Wye Valley in Wales for sex education because Otis lives in Simons Yat which is a place and also while we're talking Valley Happy Valley have you ever either of you been to Calder Valley West

37:56Esther Smith:no but I love Wales and I love all the Welsh people

37:58Pilot TV Hosts:Halifax yeah no no no No.

38:01Esther Smith:God, we need to get out more.

38:02Pilot TV Hosts:We need to venture up north, I think, slightly more. Yeah. All right, brilliant. It's Slough for the office. That's true. I thought you were about to say Slough House. No, well. Which technically is by the Barbican, isn't it? So actually, we probably have been there. Yes, yes. Yeah. Okay, good. I'm glad we had this chat. That was the listener question. If you want your question answered on this podcast, then the email address is postbag at pilottvpod.com. Should we have this week's guest? Oh, please. I think we should. Okay. It is, in fact, time for Apple's comedy gem trying to return for its fifth season this week.

38:32Pilot TV Hosts:And to celebrate the fact Esther Smith came on this very podcast to have a chat with Jordan King about the latest season and everything that it means for Nicky and Jason. So this is Esther Smith talking to Jordan. So it is my absolute pleasure to welcome back to the Pilot TV podcast, star and executive producer of Apple TV's Trying, Esther Smith. How are you today?

38:53Esther Smith:I'm really good, thank you, Jordan. How are you?

38:56Pilot TV Hosts:I'm good, I'm good. congratulations on another just lovely warm hug of a season of this show it is the go-to comfort watch in my household how does it how does it feel to be back now with a fifth season it's almost unprecedented in the modern sort of tv landscape a fifth season and back as an ep this

39:13Esther Smith:time too yeah no it's i mean it's it's incredible really and i'm i'm so chuffed that we get to keep telling the story um initially I kind of assumed that we would be here for like three seasons because that seems to be the like a trend and and then yeah to be gifted a fourth and a fifth is is is amazing and I just think there's I think there's scope for for more just because you know it's just nice to look into this quite ordinary family ordinary people sorry and this family and seeing where they're at and where their lives are taking them because they're just fun people to spend time with, I think.

39:59Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, this time around as well, you're coming back into this, you know, you're an executive producer now on the show, which is one major life event. You're also coming back to this show now as a mother yourself, which congratulations for that as well. But how do you feel like in any way, shape or form, trying has kind of being a part of a show like this with such a big heart is did that help prepare you for what it would be like to be a mum as much as anything can ever prepare you for that particular

40:26Esther Smith:madness yeah I mean that's exactly what it is it is absolute madness and I don't think anything can prepare you I think what has been nice is that I feel like I've been around that question of what it means to be a parent and so I've had that luxury of playing a parent and then like dealing with certain subject matters that being a parent throws up so um in a way Andy who's the writer has given me a bit of a blueprint from his scripts in a way but um yeah I'm not sure anything truly prepares you for the tiredness and the sleep deprivation as a as a father of two daughters

41:14Pilot TV Hosts:under five i can heavily relate to that particular struggle oh my gosh so you know i i know i know but do you feel like do you feel like the way that you look at nikki's changed at all though now on the other side of all of this because obviously you sort of you know as actors do you were imagining something that you hadn't yet experienced for yourself but now you're you're going on to set and you're bringing with you almost necessarily you're bringing a big part of your own life with you yeah and your time is yeah it's a very realistic depiction of being absolutely knackered but yeah do you feel like nikki's changed a little bit now when we come

41:51Esther Smith:back for season five yeah i do i do and i think i think it's more in that because she's the parent of essentially two teenagers now I think there's with the kind of the parent storyline aside she's in a way been given the opportunity to reconnect with who she is and what she's about so she starts this new job as a manager in this very very trendy travel agency and is meeting people on the terms of not as a parent as as nikki so that's kind of a nice opportunity for her just to yeah be nikki not mom nikki um so that so i think that that has changed yeah she's changed in that essence and also i just think we're constantly accruing information feels like daily like being a parent so inevitably you're kind of constantly evolving and growing so I feel like she's in itself is her toolbox is is is um a bit more packed now it's definitely a very different Nikki to the um maybe naive Nikki from series one yeah definitely

43:18Pilot TV Hosts:Beautifully naive. Beautifully naive. But it is really interesting that you mentioned that sort of reconnection element. I mean, I definitely feel that as a parent now, trying to sort of remember who am I amidst all of this craziness. But I think it is interesting too, because trying, like you say, it could have been a three seasons and done kind of thing. Like they could adopt Princess and Tyler, and that would be a lovely end to the story. I feel like every season ends in a way that would satisfyingly be an end if it was. but it is interesting that now that you've gone beyond that all of the characters of the show have become these so rich and lived in people i mean i've just been re-watching the first series and scott when he's first introduced is sort of the worst man in the world in many ways and now i find myself in season five literally crying situations that he's in but it is interesting this sort of the maturation of the series i think it's a testament to andy walton's writing.

44:13Pilot TV Hosts:He obviously does this all by himself, but also a testament to you guys as a cast. Something that I did think was really interesting, though, that I don't feel like I've seen very much of on screen, or at least I can't think of, is the approach that you guys take to blended families in season five and the idea of, you know, what is it like if you've built a family and then a biological parent comes back into the fray? And I just wondered, like, what kind of conversations were you guys having with Andy, with Charlotte Riley, who's brilliant as cat, about how you were going to handle that kind of you know it's very sensitive subject matter and I feel like you

44:45Esther Smith:deal with it very sensitively yeah oh thank you for saying that yeah I think it's really important that that that it is a portrayal which is which is extremely looked after and thought about and in truth it to be honest it just all comes from Andy's writing and his brain and his words um I feel like also the you know having brilliant Charlotte Riley in it kind of and her sensitivity um coming into this story and the beautiful connection that she has that Kat has with Princess I think it's yeah I it's I think it's all from Andy um all of that work and I think just a collective want to tell the story truthfully with heart with humor and being aware of what this what this actually story might mean to certain people and and also showing showing people who it doesn't necessarily directly affect what what that might look like and so i feel like there wasn't a lot of conversation around it i feel like it was just all an organic thing that we came to collectively because of

46:13Pilot TV Hosts:andy's script yeah and i think i think i suppose as well that there's an element of everything in trying right from the very beginning it always you can feel that it's all approached without judgment and it's a show that's very much built with optimism baked into its dna it struck me just while i was in the waiting room for this that this is sort of the original apple tv therapeutic comedy like you guys were here right at the start you're five seasons in now but there is no shrinking and there is no ted lasso or any of those without what you guys sort of built the foundations for here do you think that's part of why we are still so invested in nikki and jason all these years

46:53Esther Smith:later i wonder and it's also it's so easy i'm glad you mentioned that because it's so easy to forget that actually because that the platform has grown so much and it's funny because i we went to the we were lucky enough to be invited to the the the big what's it called like the presentation day thing yeah in palo alto where the actual playground it's like it's like a playground um with all these incredible stars like hot like the cream of the crop of hollywoods and then and me just walking around eating apple pie because they served these amazing apple like mince pie things um and yeah it was very much in its infancy and that felt really special and I and I think because we had that and because we were one of their first quite early on I think it I think just like within it there's just like that special feeling of not I think not taking it for granted and also not taking the story for granted it still means so much even being five seasons on I personally never take for granted what this story means and what it means to people and it always hits me even talking about it in press I find it quite emotional talking about it and I think that is a gorgeous mixture of what the story is the people collectively who are involved the audience's response to it that like the fandom that it's generated even if it's something that has been quietly there on the platform it's kind of yeah it's amazing that it's just kind of quietly there and people are getting to it and coming to it and can now binge

48:52Pilot TV Hosts:five seasons of it yeah it is it's the heartbeat of the platform for me it feels like it's set the standard for everything that's followed and so yeah congratulations on a on a really lovely season five and here is hoping that season six will be on its way because i would keep watching these for many many years to come but yeah thank you so much for your time esther it's lovely speaking to you you too bye that was esther smith let's talk news what have we got steph well there's been a

49:21Esther Smith:a real reverse ferret of news.

49:24Pilot TV Hosts:Has there?

49:24Esther Smith:Yeah, because Tom Hardy... Tom Hardy is back.

49:28Pilot TV Hosts:He's back in Mobland. I always thought this was... He saw his differences with the producers.

49:33Esther Smith:That's what it says.

49:34Pilot TV Hosts:Can we just say, he's back in Mobland, a show that, crucially, has not been officially renewed.

49:39Esther Smith:The headline that I've got is Tom Hardy makes Mobland return after settling spat with producers. What do you know about this, Boyd? I feel like you know something.

49:49Pilot TV Hosts:Well, there was this whole... there was this whole there was a lot of differing accounts of whether or not he was actually suspended from the show or sacked from the show or not neither of those things and then there was this whole saga about you know is it something to do with Helen Mirren and you know and it was all

50:04Esther Smith:a bit political didn't it yeah

50:07Pilot TV Hosts:and then I think she completely denied that she had any problem with him at all yeah she put out

50:11Esther Smith:an Instagram post I think saying that she loves him and she always has

50:14Pilot TV Hosts:exactly so I always I never quite thought oh they've got rid of him so So, you know, I think it's good to confirm the fact that he's still in it because he's obviously the best thing about it.

50:25Esther Smith:It just says it appears to be a result. I really want to know what it was. What they got. I would like to know.

50:31Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah. Maybe we'll never know.

50:34Esther Smith:Maybe we'll never know.

50:34Pilot TV Hosts:Maybe we'll never know.

50:35Esther Smith:Or maybe we'll know and we can never say. Perhaps. Okay.

50:39Pilot TV Hosts:We've had lots of other things happening this week. It's been quite a busy one. It's been a good week for Reacher heads, I would say. Yeah. Because not only do we have a Reacher date, But the new season of Reacher is going to be landing on, this is season four, on Wednesday, August the 12th on Prime. But we have a new date, a new date, a date, September 16th, for Neegly, the spin-off series. And yes, I know they pronounce it Neely in the show, but that really annoys me because it has a G in it. The G is not silent, so I'm going to call it Neegly. But yes, that is the character of Neegly, and she's getting her own spin-off, and that lands in September.

51:10Pilot TV Hosts:So it's a double Reacher year. When you say the G is not silent, when they themselves actually have it as silent, I disagree

51:20Esther Smith:why do you disagree?

51:21Pilot TV Hosts:because that's not how I read it and it upsets me

51:24Esther Smith:okay

51:24Pilot TV Hosts:yeah neely not neely

51:26Esther Smith:that tells you everything about James that you need to know it really does

51:29Pilot TV Hosts:it sums him up

51:30Esther Smith:say you're a James without saying you're a James

51:32Pilot TV Hosts:I reject the silent G okay I'm going to show you both this a photograph of this person I'm going to ask you if you know who it is okay

51:39Esther Smith:I'm loving this quiz element today

51:41Pilot TV Hosts:yes that's Taylor Sheridan Taylor Sheridan of course we know you're Taylor Sheridan don't you think Taylor Sheridan looks exactly as you'd want Taylor Sheridan to look He's got a kind of like, he's looking angry in this photo, which is basically him doing a podcast, by the way. And this is a story that has just emerged this morning from him doing this podcast interview. And it's got a classic variety, you know, my classic variety headlines. So he is the classic variety headline of the week. Oh, nice. What's the headline? Taylor Sheridan rips studio execs for knowing nothing and slams his TV critics, colon, I do rage bait them, fuck them honestly.

52:16Esther Smith:Is this about Sons of Anarchy?

52:17Pilot TV Hosts:This is about all of his shows. And basically he talks about how he did it all himself. He refuses to take notes from executives. He doesn't respect any of the executives who can finance his shows. He just plows his own furrow, does what the fuck he wants and leave him alone. And he will provide you with, as he has done, clearly, dozens and dozens of mega TV hits, including the ones that you two are obsessed with as we speak. He is a genius.

52:41Esther Smith:Let's use the word. He is. We're going to use that word.

52:44Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah.

52:44Esther Smith:There is no better name for him than Taylor Sheridan, which sounds like a weird thing to say. He looks like Taylor Sheridan.

52:52Pilot TV Hosts:He's called Taylor Sheridan. He makes shows the Taylor Sheridan you'd want him to make. He says, I knew when I started writing, I wanted to simply not do what everyone else was doing, he says. Everyone else was making shortcuts, breaking all the basic rules of storytelling because they couldn't figure out their story. He knew what he was fucking doing is basically his response. Yeah. and it's a very entertaining piece and I will be listening to that podcast because it sounds very funny. Yeah, he's rather unfiltered. He is totally unfiltered. It's interesting. He can afford to be.

53:24Esther Smith:He can literally afford to be.

53:25Pilot TV Hosts:When you run most of American television, as he does, his empire is now gigantic. He can say what the fuck he wants. Well, he bought the 4.6's ranch,

53:34Esther Smith:which was an extraordinary amount of money. The horses that they use, I mean, we'll get into this, but the horses they use on Yellowstone are his horses that he has trained and he lends them. He lends himself.

53:44Pilot TV Hosts:That's a fact I didn't know.

53:46Esther Smith:Yeah.

53:47Pilot TV Hosts:But, so interesting thing is, like, we talk about Taylor Sheeran. He famously was Deputy Hale on Sons of Anarchy. Yeah. And he was saying when he did season two of Sons of Anarchy, he was like, I just wasn't earning enough money to live. And he was like, I couldn't do it. But then he goes on to say, I was earning$15 ,000 an episode. You're like, so you kind of were earning enough money to live because that's actually, given that there's, what, eight episodes in a season, like you were doing alright right you're getting 15 grand an episode you're not doing too badly

54:15Esther Smith:I think he's got expensive taste

54:16Pilot TV Hosts:he's not on the breadline is what I'm saying but then horses expensive pets they are expensive but he was saying that he went to the producer and said I want more money and he wanted apparently he wanted 20 ,000 an episode and they said no they said 15 is where you're going to get and so he basically jatted it in he was like alright I'm done I mean to be fair I don't think he left in season 2 but he basically he then engineered his exit from the show and he was just like I'm done with acting because he's like I'm just not earning enough as an actor he said and all the power was with storytellers he said fuck it I will tell man's stories and now he's just like dominating the globe so it's worked out quite well ticked that off yeah

54:50Esther Smith:you know what Dutton Ranch which has got a season 2 I know it's been renewed it's been renewed but they Chad Fian is the showrunner and he's leaving he's leaving we're getting a new one do you know who we're getting?

55:02Pilot TV Hosts:who are we getting? Teddy Sheridan?

55:03Esther Smith:no oh no Teddy Sheridan's not involved he's not involved in Dutton Ranch no he's not involved in Benjamin Cavill and he has his writing and producing credits include Justified Yes Please Homeland Yes Please Sneaky Pete Yes Please and Godfather of Harlem so this is going to be great

55:20Pilot TV Hosts:I hope this bodes well

55:21Esther Smith:It does really bode well

55:23Pilot TV Hosts:It's a good bode

55:24Esther Smith:It's a good bode

55:25Pilot TV Hosts:It's a good bode So yes more Dutton Ranch on the way very exciting Do you see Department Q Season 2 has begun production so it's still a ways off I thought that was surprising I assumed it started coming ages ago I thought it had been shot I was waiting for it to arrive but apparently they literally haven't made it Yeah, I was surprised by that, I have to say. But fair enough, I guess if it takes a long time to write... It doesn't. It doesn't. Okay. They managed to put out like 18 episodes of Slow Horses every five minutes. Do you know what I mean? Steady? Don't you have a go at it? I mean, it's not 18, it's six.

55:57Pilot TV Hosts:No, it's six, and it's once a year now. But they still do that thing where they work on three seasons of Slow Horses at any given time. So they'll be like editing one, and then shooting one, and then writing one, which is deranged yeah that's true that is deranged and presumably the reason why Will Smith is no longer the showrunner because you know what has gone all day Yeah, Will Smith the... Not that Will Smith. No, not the slapper person. Not the slapper.

56:24Esther Smith:You know, the person who slapped Chris Rock, not that person.

56:26Pilot TV Hosts:This is a big political story, but I'm going to mention it anyway. Oh God.

56:29Esther Smith:He'll cut it out if he doesn't want to.

56:31Pilot TV Hosts:No, no, I don't mean... No, you won't have to cut it out, but the British government is apparently going to intervene in the paramount proposed 110 billion takeover of Warner Brothers Discovery. What's it got to do with the British government? Why has it got to do with them? Because they have outlets in British, you know.

56:46Esther Smith:But don't they have other stuff to do?

56:49Pilot TV Hosts:Or the government?

56:50Esther Smith:Yes.

56:50Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, but, you know, the Minister for the Arts, I believe it was, Lisa Nandy. Okay. She is the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. She said in a written statement to Parliament on Thursday, following an engagement with the parties and independent research in my department, it's a written to the current and proposed owners of Warner Brothers Discovery on my behalf to inform them I am minded to intervene.

57:11Esther Smith:I am minded. Yes, she's minded.

57:13Pilot TV Hosts:I'm sure they're going to pay an awful lot of attention to that. That's good, I'm sure. Sure. Lisa Nandy's views will be absolutely taken on board. We can't do this, guys.

57:21Esther Smith:Lisa's been on the phone. Lisa Nandy's just called.

57:23Pilot TV Hosts:I'm so sorry. It's not going ahead now. Wow. Yeah. God. Poor Nandy. Getting both barrels from you two. She's trying her best to, you know. I think it's interesting because that deal is still, still yet to be finally, you know, sorted down.

57:37Esther Smith:I don't think it's going to be crushed by Lisa. You know what I mean? I don't. You've made that quite clear.

57:43Pilot TV Hosts:Your analysis of this news story have made that quite apparent. You may not be wrong. I'm pleased. I'm pleased. I'm encouraged that she's doing it because someone's got to fucking intervene because it's an absolute nightmare.

57:56Esther Smith:Okay, I just don't get upset. She doesn't prevail. That's all I'm saying.

58:02Pilot TV Hosts:Look, I enjoy David and Goliath's story as much as the next person, but this is very much like the little chihuahua barking at the 747.

58:08Esther Smith:Yes, I agree.

58:10Pilot TV Hosts:Anything else?

58:11Esther Smith:No, I have nothing else. No, we have nothing else.

58:13Pilot TV Hosts:Boy, do you have anything else? No. Good, then we can move on from news this week, I think, and move on to this week's reviews. Now, I should probably caveat reviews by saying this is maybe not the creme de la creme of television entertainment this week. Offerings were slim, slim pickings, I think it's fairly safe to say. You know, it's a difficult combination of embargoes and the aforementioned World Cup. That's meant that we struggled a little bit this week to find some shows.

58:37Esther Smith:I had a great time. I watched Little House on the Broward.

58:40Pilot TV Hosts:Which we can't talk about. So, yeah, so just with that caveat out there, bear with us. Okay, so first up, we have The Dark on ITV, which is an adaptation of the novel from The Shadows by G.R. Halliday, which is the first of his D.I. Monica Kennedy series. And this takes us up to Inverness for a ritualistic murder. Yeah, and who better tell us about this than our own ritualistic murder expert, Steph? Great.

59:09Esther Smith:Well, I thought you two were going to be really upset about this because one of the opening scenes is the body in the open and I know you don't like bodies.

59:16Pilot TV Hosts:Well, yes, but actually, I was like, big thumbs up because it was a naked bloke.

59:20Esther Smith:Yes, and I thought, oh.

59:20Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it's all about naked women.

59:21Esther Smith:Okay, I was like, oh, they'll be okay with this because it's a man.

59:24Pilot TV Hosts:I'm absolutely fine with it because I get so bored of that trope of just like murdered women all the time and it's just, we're so actually murdered men. Yeah, all right, carry on. Well, since you've mentioned it, I should, because I've just been working on this and in the press pack for the show, they interview the director and she says, the writer, sorry, and she says that was an absolute deliberate thing. She was sick and tired of having women, naked women, corpses in shows.

59:49Esther Smith:Oh, really? Yeah, they're very much specified.

59:52Pilot TV Hosts:Part of her being interested in it was the fact that it was men, male men, who were the victims in this show. Male men, not to be... Male men, yeah, not male men.

1:00:01Esther Smith:Okay. Oh, okay, that's really interesting. Interesting. Okay, so we open, this is set in Scotland, you know. You know my heart sort of belongs to Wales at the moment with regional crime dramas. But yeah, I'm really enjoying the rugged Scottish landscape of this. So we're introduced to the detective and she is obviously brilliant. She's got a new partner who is an idiot. Yeah, he is an idiot and they are sent to see. She's got a young child. You immediately know there's a backstory there. there's a mystery I'm not going to spoil this for anyone but this all sort of happens in the first five minutes she's in a cinema a woman comes to talk to her you're unsure if you've read the books you'll know but she's unsure Have you read the books?

1:00:46Esther Smith:No, I haven't read the books no She's unsure Well, if you've read the books

1:00:50Pilot TV Hosts:you'll know

1:00:51Esther Smith:I did do it like that Yeah, it is You really implied that you had read the books If you've read the books you'll know Have you read the books? Yeah, I've read the books Of course I've read the books

1:01:01Pilot TV Hosts:Just edit in that light

1:01:02Esther Smith:Of course I've read the books I haven't read the books. But, yeah, as you know, I've told you this before, I don't really like crime fiction. I love, like, crime fact. Yeah, I love, like, true crime. Anyway, that's an... Carry on. Anyway, okay, so we're introduced to the detective. There's a sinister female figure who is something from her past, so all, you know, great, great, great. And then they, with this new partner she gets, they happen upon, they don't happen upon, they've been investigating this body in the field, which is Yeah, they're not out for a hike That's absolutely not what happens They do not go on a hike and happen upon a naked man Do not listen to me What am I talking about?

1:01:44Esther Smith:Okay And they need to find out why this man is but obviously because the detective knows the area she lives in the area she quickly knows who it is I don't want to give too much away because you're introduced to Helen Baxendale she's in it who I was very pleased to see Wielding a gun wielding a gun what a sight but again it wasn't like that in Cold Feet it wasn't like that in Cold Feet do you know yeah she's great though she is really good in this and the absolute MVP of this whole thing is an amazing Irish wolfhound yes oh my god the Irish wolfhound and the dogs are a theme yes okay in this so I'm not just saying it just because I love dogs you're also introduced to a young man who has who gets a mysterious phone and is getting messages potentially from his mum again I don't want to spoil this just tell me if you think I'm going too far do you think I'm going too far James?

1:02:36Esther Smith:no no I think you're okay it's fine right what I would say about this right for me I for the first kind of 30 minutes I thought oh god this is a bit clumsy unpredictable it feels a bit pedestrian I'm not really into it and then the last 10 minutes something happens which I'm not going to give away that absolutely ramps this up to a really exciting drama and something completely different but I can't give away what it is um the whole the whole first episode it's there's so many mysterious things going on you kind of can't really it's quite hard to figure like how does she know him and who's that and who's that other woman there's a lot of plots set in motion in this first episode which is quite hard to kind of get to grips with I found anyway um but by the last 10 minutes I was really hooked and I thought it was It's not absolutely amazing, you know, it's not Apple TV crime drama or anything, but for an ITV, I thought this was good and it had something a little bit different for me.

1:03:35Pilot TV Hosts:For an ITV.

1:03:36Esther Smith:Well, I'm saying it for him. Hey, I didn't say anything. Yeah, he didn't say anything, but it does have a whiff of ITV about it, doesn't it? It's even worse. It's soaked in ITV.

1:03:47Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah.

1:03:49Esther Smith:I love ITV, by the way.

1:03:50Pilot TV Hosts:I think it makes excellent usage, though, we should say, visually, of the Scottish Highland bleak. Where they happen upon the body. Some has happened upon the body, though. Yes, they do. To be fair, it's just not the characters you said. They're brought in. They're specifically brought in by those who happened upon the body. It's an appointment viewing. It's an appointment viewing of the body. And I thought that, yeah, that's quite spectacular. The bleak, kind of grey, cold, rocky backdrop of... of the Highlands or whatever the hell it is was really well done like really really impressive and I think that she is great Laura Donnelly who was leading the Nevers do you remember the Nevers Joss Whedon's the Nevers exactly yeah I think it's by the way I think kudos to ITV because she's not that well known I think here maybe she's done a bit of stuff in the mirror the Nevers was obviously banished to the ether yeah that was unfortunate I hadn't seen her at all that was unfortunate yeah so they've cast someone relatively not unknown but relatively unknown in comparison in this big chunky lead role.

1:04:54Pilot TV Hosts:And she's really good, I think. She's quite kind of cold and enigmatic in a way, you know, in her day-to-day. Much like yourself, Poirier. Yeah, absolutely. And I think she does that really well. The way she treats her new police partner, who is, as you said, what did you describe him as an idiot? He's an idiot. He's an idiot. All these words.

1:05:14Esther Smith:Do you know there's a scene where they're driving back and this is one of the scenes where I thought, I don't know if I can continue watching this. And for some reason, the writers have decided that she needs to divulge everything that's happened to her, to him, in this one car scene. And she just gives him her whole backstory and her whole history and it just was really, I thought it was really clunky. I didn't like that. But anyway, sorry, carry on.

1:05:34Pilot TV Hosts:Okay. But she's really good.

1:05:36Esther Smith:Yeah, she is good.

1:05:39Pilot TV Hosts:But I agree with you. I was interested, I think there's enough interesting stuff going on because you've got this mysterious woman who pops up in the cinema on the very first scene who's got some backstory with Laura Donnelly's character. You've got this whole other situation going on with Helen Baxter and her husband, Emma and Elliot, who are the parents. And you've got the actual murder itself, the key, the naked men thing. And I think that is really key, that they are men. All the men in this show, spoiler alert, are the victims. And you're tracing another storyline, another set of characters, the guy who works in the pub restaurant and his dad who seems quite grumpy.

1:06:21Pilot TV Hosts:And you've got the dog, as well as you say.

1:06:23Esther Smith:The dog is so great.

1:06:24Pilot TV Hosts:The dog is great. And then you've got this absolute nightmare of a finale of the first episode, which really seals the deal. It does. And I think that, because that turns it from fairly, you know, detective drama. I wouldn't say pedestrians are big. It's by the numbers. Nothing feels surprising. Sure. It feels very familiar. Yeah, maybe apart from the male bodies thing, that's an interesting, that's a departure. Oh, I applaud that. But then, in that final five minutes, and the final shot itself, you're like, oh, hold on. This is quite scary, creepy, properly creepy, like almost rural horror kind of thing.

1:07:05Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it has a touch of the folk horror. Yeah, it really does. And then I started watching the second episode, and they ratchet that up more and more as it goes on. so it is kind of folk horror meets Detective John I think it works quite well so I think there's enough going on in that whether you think it's production or a bit slow or deliberately paced as we say I think it all builds up so well to that final moment which is horrific and I thought they pulled that off really well because that could have been cheesy and a bit try hard but it really works but it's scary it's scary it's horrible so I think that's what makes it a cut above I think in the end

1:07:43Esther Smith:James ready for you to rip into it please no no no it was fine

1:07:47Pilot TV Hosts:that's my whole review

1:07:48Esther Smith:it was just fine

1:07:50Pilot TV Hosts:no I liked it as you say when it starts off it's quite dour and a bit boring no it is he liked it

1:07:57Esther Smith:but it's dour

1:07:58Pilot TV Hosts:it took me a little while to work out whether or not we had sort of parallel chronologies do you know what I mean because obviously you see a a character who is clearly being groomed by the killer. And I'm like, is that the naked, you know, buns out bloke from the beginning of the episode? Are we seeing how he got killed? I don't know. I didn't see anything that at all. No, obviously, he's, you know, the next victim. But I was trying to work out. He's misunderstood the narrative. Because it's very common. Fucking, you know, Yellowstone does this all the time, where you jump to a different chronology, but you don't signpost it in any way.

1:08:34Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah. And that can be really, I mean, Department Q is a really good example of how that's deployed, you know, to great sort of twisty effect. what I thought was being done here. And then I was like, oh, no, no, you're the next victim.

1:08:45Esther Smith:I didn't get that at all. All right, so clearly I'm an idiot.

1:08:48Pilot TV Hosts:But anyway, I misunderstood the answer for a while. And then eventually I figured that out. Is it because he's using an old school mobile phone? Did you think that it was that? So, this is interesting. Initially, I was like, when is this set? Because it's got that slightly, almost like 70s lighting thing. Oh, no, it's a burner. No, I know that. It's like an old Nokia, isn't it? But initially I was like, I'm just trying to give an excuse for his stupidity.

1:09:10Esther Smith:Oh, you're trying to help him out. and he's ejecting it.

1:09:12Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, it wouldn't have been, bearing in mind that they found his body on the moor the day before, he wouldn't have been killed in the 1970s. Maybe there's a whole time travel element to it that we get to make it clear. I didn't think that, but I wondered whether it was like, it was basically, I'd missed a thing that said like, three days earlier or something like that, I don't know. But anyway, so we've established I didn't really understand it. And I thought it was fine. Brilliant. Yeah. Great. Will you carry on watching it? Absolutely. I was in the dark. no I will not be continuing watching it but I think it was I really want to know

1:09:45Esther Smith:what it is because that really got me hooked because there's a

1:09:47Pilot TV Hosts:religious cult thing going on which you didn't mention as well yes that is true and they mentioned at the beginning there's been this sort of cult thing

1:09:52Esther Smith:it's the old case isn't there there's an old case involving the cult there's a lot going

1:09:57Pilot TV Hosts:yeah but then part of me is just like this is interesting but Under Saltmarsh is still on my sofa list so I feel like that's definitely one to prioritise

1:10:04Esther Smith:James you're absolutely right that is the benchmark for crime dramas

1:10:09Pilot TV Hosts:just because it's got a modern name in it

1:10:10Esther Smith:No, because I loved it before. I loved you. I said Kelly Riley. Kelly Riley. My best friend.

1:10:15Pilot TV Hosts:It freaks me out when she speaks with a Rachel accent. I know, it's weird. I don't like it.

1:10:20Esther Smith:Yeah, Undersault Marshall was absolutely... That'll probably be on all of our... Will it? For you? Maybe not. Was it this year? Was it not?

1:10:26Pilot TV Hosts:I think it was this year. Was it this year? I think so. But that's a good question. Yeah, we need to go back and look. I have no idea if it was this year. Let's not do a live ponder. Was it this year? It might have been this year. I'm not sure. Anyway, anyway, anyway. where The Dark Then, which airs on every iteration of ITV, ITVX, ITV1, I don't know, whatever else. Well, I mean, it's on ITV1. It's on ITV1 and ITVX. Yeah, but everything on ITV1 is automatically on ITVX. It doesn't mean anything. Oh, God. Show me the lie. It's like saying, everyone on BBC, it's on BBC iPlayer. It is. All right.

1:10:58Pilot TV Hosts:Anyway, all you need to know is it's on ITV1 this Sunday, the 12th of July at 9pm, and carries on on Monday. Ooh, okay. on Sunday, Monday for the next three weeks. Fabulous. Six episodes in all. And I can confirm, by the way, at the same time, because I'm multitasking here, that Undersault Marsh was indeed this year.

1:11:16Esther Smith:Oh, gosh, you're doing some great number-frenching today.

1:11:19Pilot TV Hosts:That's very helpful. That's another one I've got to watch before we do the show. January of the show. What? You've watched Undersault Marsh? Were you not here for the conversation where I just said I can't watch this because I have yet to finish Undersault Marsh? Honestly, she doesn't listen to anything I say. Our second show this week, and this is going to be a completely seamless transition because you would never know that we've literally just evacuated the building because of a fire alarm test. And then when it got lunch, and by lunch, I mean Bimboidy went to Itzu and Steph bought Looks at Desk family packets of Maltesers, Haribo, Minstrels and is there a fourth one?

1:11:54Pilot TV Hosts:Werther's Originals. Werther's Originals. And this is, and I am not joking, Steph's Lunch. Steph, hold up the lunch. Hold up for the camera. Go on, show them your lunch. This is Steph's lunch. This is Steph's actual work lunch. Hold it up. Go on. Own it. Yeah, there we go. There we go. All the major food groups there represented. And by that, I mean Werther's Originals, Haribo, Maltesers and Minstrels. So, yeah. Nice. Good. I can't believe I've been publicly shamed.

1:12:19Esther Smith:You've been publicly shamed for your lunch.

1:12:21Pilot TV Hosts:I'm staging an intervention. Anyway, anyway, on the subject of human vapour, we are now turning to our next show, which is Human Vapour, on Netflix, which is a TV reboot of the 1960 sci-fi horror of the same name, which you may or may not know. It's from Godzilla creator Ishiro Honda. And this sees a criminal who can turn himself to fumes, and he commits crimes on national television. So, Boydie, tell us, is this a gas or a load of hot air? Well, this begins with a very entertaining and kind of shocking sequence in which a top kind of old bald guy scientist, Steady. Well, you know, you say it as you see it, has been interviewed by a famous reporter, Kyoko Kono.

1:13:14Pilot TV Hosts:They're having a chat, and then you see some kind of gaseous, indeed, vapour entering the TV studio, where this is going out, being broadcast live, and within seconds, this isn't, by the way, this is the set-up of the show. Yeah, this isn't the set-up. I'm just just saying, before people will accuse me of spoiling things, like they always do. Within seconds, he kind of shoots up into the air. He levitates, doesn't he? Levitates, kind of towards the ceiling, hits the ceiling, and then explodes all over poor... Kiyoko. Kiyoko. And the rest of the crew are filming him, and there's blood splattered everywhere.

1:13:53Pilot TV Hosts:and then at the same time we meet this cop who has a nice he's having a nice lunch in his local noodle bar whatever and he's and he um he encounters a young immigrant worker who's being abused by his boss and he kind of intervenes in that situation that's how we're introduced to him and then the cop goes to investigate the exploding man the reporter was also investigating the exploding man because she was right in the middle of his him exploding all over her and together they then form the plot of the whole thing, which is that they are investigating the Exploding Man and the very disappearance of this gaseous matter, which arrives in some kind of box sent to a specific guy and he doesn't understand what's happening either.

1:14:35Pilot TV Hosts:It's very entertaining. I think the characters are immediately fun and we're kind of drawn to them and the cop's kind of very effectively played by Shun Aguri, who is a model, apparently, I was reading. in Japan and this is his first acting job

1:14:52Esther Smith:the cop guy is the cop guy oh he is handsome he's very handsome

1:14:55Pilot TV Hosts:yeah really good and it's fun all I want to say is it's kind of it is shot in a quite cinematic way and it feels like it's quite a you know deluxe piece of TV making except for the CGI some of the CGI effects are quite bad I thought compositing was it Boydie I don't know whether it's the compositing or the LED volume or whatever. But the gas itself, first of all, in that opening scene that I'm describing, is kind of a bit cheesy. Unconvinced by the gas. Cheesy gas.

1:15:29Esther Smith:Cheesy gas. I don't know whether I thought that.

1:15:31Pilot TV Hosts:And then when he starts levitating, but the explosion was quite well done. That was fine. But yeah, there was definitely moments of it that I felt were dubious. Now, I'm no expert, unlike James, so we'll find out his verdict in a second. But that did stand out to me that there were, because obviously the whole thing's reliant on the special effect of this fucking human fate. See, I thought you were going to take issue with the tailoring of the antagonist's suit. No. He had an ill-fitting, deliberately ill-fitting tailored suit. Yeah, it was deliberate. An oversized suit. Oh, yeah, sure. That was deliberate.

1:16:05Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, yeah, you could take issue with that. But no, I thought the effects every now and then weren't great. But then, you know, then when you read it's a remake of the thing made by the Godzilla guy, you can feel in a way it's part of the whole fun that it doesn't have to be.

1:16:17Esther Smith:It is fun.

1:16:18Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, but it is. I had a good time it was very fast moving and obviously the only reason we're reviewing it is because there's nothing else to review this week we have to be brutally honest about it but in the end I was enjoying the fact that we are reviewing it and I would never have watched it probably because I don't know anything about the original

1:16:37Esther Smith:but it was

1:16:37Pilot TV Hosts:a whole lot of fun

1:16:39Esther Smith:I think this had layers I was considering it's vapour it had a lot of layers layered vapours yeah The last time I saw anyone explode this well was Bella Hadid in The Beauty. When she exploded in The Beauty, it was a great explosion. And this was also a great explosion. I've got to give credit to the opening credits of this show because I thought they were particularly well done.

1:17:05Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, yeah, the credits were nice.

1:17:07Esther Smith:Yeah, really, really nice. Yeah, the cop. So you're introduced to the cop, who we now know is a model, who it's unclear, and again, I don't know the film at all, It's unclear why he's been suspended and he gets reinstated within the first five minutes of this show. And then what I also really enjoyed was there's flashbacks and it becomes clear that there is some kind of romantic entanglement between Kyoko and the cop guy, whose name I can't recall at the moment. Model man. Model man. Let's call him model man. And I like that whole little dynamic that you know is going to play out. Frisson. yeah I kind of liked the reminiscing scenes and I think it's it's a good mystery and I actually because I don't know anything about it when it gets to the kind of end of the first episode and it's not a spoiler because we already know this man is human vapour I was like oh it's a superhero thing he's human like he's a villain he's like he's vapour he's like human vapour and then I liked it even more but yeah I would never have watched this because as you know I'm not a big fan of shows you can read I'm not a big fan of shows you have to read.

1:18:18Esther Smith:Yeah, it was good.

1:18:19Pilot TV Hosts:Can I just correct myself? Please. It's actually the human vapor himself who is the model who's never acted before.

1:18:25Esther Smith:Oh, the cop seemed to be an elderly to the model. Oh, okay. I was going to say. Sorry. Because I can see that.

1:18:31Pilot TV Hosts:Yes. He's a guy called Utah.

1:18:34Esther Smith:Okay. Right.

1:18:35Pilot TV Hosts:Funny enough, the guy playing the detective who's made over a hundred different films and TV shows and is one of the most experienced some prolific actors in all of Japan.

1:18:47Esther Smith:This is my favourite mistake that you have ever made. This is what the readers pay for.

1:18:51Pilot TV Hosts:The listeners pay for. As I said, I was thinking, maybe I've got that the wrong way around. Yeah, I didn't think

1:18:56Esther Smith:he was a bit elderly to be really kind of stomping the catwalk. But yeah, it's kind of got a ring vibe to it. You know, the ring, there's a little bit, you know, with the whole, the video, because the human vapour guy is on the video and giving a warning that people are going to get murdered. I think, yeah, once you're in it it's good is it? oh I mean it's okay

1:19:19Pilot TV Hosts:come on it's okay it's like okay sorry

1:19:23Esther Smith:I'm going to downgrade good yeah in the second mistake from this review I'm going to downgrade good it's okay it's

1:19:30Pilot TV Hosts:I mean I didn't feel it offered a great deal because I think on the one hand it's a bit silly and I don't mind silly I don't mind silly it's a bit silly but and it's quite heightened in the way that it's acted like the acting is a little bit sort of like on point. It's very heightened. And also, like the story didn't really grip me either. I was a bit like, yeah, okay, Vapor Man, you're going to turn out, you're going to do an interview and you're blowing people up and you think that speaking incredibly slowly and opaquely makes you mysterious and scary. It just doesn't make for good television.

1:20:05Esther Smith:Oh, I thought he was quite scary.

1:20:07Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, was he? I mean, the fit of his suit was quite terrifying. Don't you want to know?

1:20:12Esther Smith:don't you want to know I mean because obviously he says the thing of like oh you know this scientist did something wrong when it reeks of there being people experimented or something of course that's going to be

1:20:20Pilot TV Hosts:because that's never been done before okay well X-Men

1:20:23Esther Smith:yeah obviously but I just feel like

1:20:25Pilot TV Hosts:X-Men were children of the atoms yeah oh sorry

1:20:28Esther Smith:but you know what I mean that kind of vibe of like people who you know have special powers because of yeah yeah it's not good is it

1:20:37Pilot TV Hosts:I just like it was okay and it might get more interesting because I accidentally watched the beginning of episode two and it's somewhat mad how did you accidentally watch i forgot to turn it off when the first one finished ninja and also played the second one um but i was just like i was just like this is not gripping me and like super villains yes on board for that people turning into vapor and murderizing people theoretically on board it just it's not very

1:20:57Esther Smith:propulsive i think it is so propulsive oh it's propulsive it's just i did not feel silly yeah i

1:21:04Pilot TV Hosts:agree with you on the silly thing but i think that was almost part of the whole tone of it and the over-the-top acting, etc. But I thought it was propulsive. I thought it was one of its characteristics. It propelled me to go and watch something else. Oh, okay. Wow. I think it does. I accidentally watched a bit more of it as well. Because this is accidental watching. Because it does autoplay. Unless you literally grab your remote, you're like, it's autoplay. Do you know what I really hate about Netflix?

1:21:30Esther Smith:When it's so judgy, like you've been watching too much judgment, it goes, are you sure you still want to stay on this? Or are you going to turn off? and it's so good it's like you've been watching too much television of course if you want to watch

1:21:40Pilot TV Hosts:the credits as well you're absolutely effed because no it's like no no moving on to the next I want to know who the third gatherer's assistant was that's why I was confused who was the model and who was the actor anyway I did also accidentally watch a bit more and there's some influencer characters that come in so it makes it it kind of it makes it more suddenly up to date and kind of knowing and a bit meta it gets a bit as it goes on which is interesting and a bit more propulsive yeah so yeah People may well like this. Maybe it'll be a massive sleeper hit, but I just...

1:22:11Esther Smith:I could see there being a little bit of a cult following of this. I could feel people being... Yeah, I can think people are going to get behind it.

1:22:17Pilot TV Hosts:Well, it's a Toho Studios thing, and obviously they have a large fan base. Well, there you go. Yeah. Okay, well, anyway, that's Human Vapor, should you feel so inclined. And that is available on the Netflix now. Oh, yes. Yeah. Finally this week, finally this week, oh, we have X-Men 97 Season 2, which is, yes, you're right, a cartoon. But despite that, we have put our long-standing antipathy towards all animation, our animation bias, if you will, on hold to see if 90s throwback animation is something that we can get on board with, especially because it has Marvel superheroes in it.

1:22:51Esther Smith:I have absolutely... Hold on. Don't start grouping me in with you two. I love animation. I have nothing against animation at all.

1:22:57Pilot TV Hosts:What's your favourite animation, Steph? Cities of Gold. Which what?

1:23:01Esther Smith:Cities... Ah, Cities of Gold.

1:23:03Pilot TV Hosts:Someday we will find the Cities of Gold. I mean, when I said animation, I thought you might go with something kind of highbrow and adult, but you know you've gone straight for the kids' cartoons.

1:23:11Esther Smith:Okay, of recent times, Flo, I loved Flo.

1:23:14Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, Flo's very good. Oh, thank you. I thought you were about to go back and double down and say, yeah, Bluey, I'd say Bluey is probably my favourite animation.

1:23:22Esther Smith:Don't fucking come for Bluey, James. By all accounts, Bluey is like the gold standard of kids' TV. I will come for you if you come for Bluey.

1:23:28Pilot TV Hosts:It's bold to come to Bluey. Wow.

1:23:31Esther Smith:Now, Bluey is one of the greatest animations of all time. That's how I've heard. And everyone can watch it.

1:23:37Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it's on my sofa list. You don't have to say your response to everything now.

1:23:43Esther Smith:Yeah, it is his response to everything. You should watch Bluey. I'm not going to watch Bluey. Can you watch an episode of Bluey before you watch Widow's Bay?

1:23:48Pilot TV Hosts:No. Okay, fine. I'm not doing it.

1:23:50Esther Smith:Anyway, I'm just saying I love animation.

1:23:52Pilot TV Hosts:Okay, Steph, the animation fiend is on board for this.

1:23:55Esther Smith:Don't get me to describe it because I've got no idea what's going on. Right, okay. No, no, you're taking it now. No, I can't take it because I don't know. It is far too late. No, no, I'm not taking it. That shit has sailed.

1:24:06Pilot TV Hosts:Pilot TV's animation correspondent, Sam Seeland, will 100 % pick up because obviously we pick up from where we left on season one. As you will, of course, know, Steph, being a massive fan of animation, they were in chronological exile. So we see how they deal with that in an episode here called Days of Past Future, which, of course, as you know, Steph, is a riff on the famous X-Men storyline Days of Future Past, and indeed the film of the same name. Isn't that right? Steph, explain away.

1:24:31Esther Smith:Oh, God, don't make me... I don't know. I have no idea. I can tell you this, that they're scattered throughout different time periods from ancient Egypt to the future, to the far future. And, okay, what they've got to do is they've got to find their way back to the 90s, okay?

1:24:45Pilot TV Hosts:We're all trying to do that, Steph.

1:24:46Esther Smith:We're all... Listen, I'm doing that all the time. Okay, right, so... They need to get together to get rid of apocalypse, right?

1:24:53Pilot TV Hosts:En Sabanur, the first mutant.

1:24:56Esther Smith:Why is he making me do it when he can do the voices as well? I'm just going to say that I had to watch this really quickly this morning and this is not my preferred way to watch animation because what I really wanted to do is wake up on Saturday morning and get a massive bowl of Cocoa Pops and sit down in my front room and watch it which is how all animation and especially this type of animation should be devoured that's fair isn't it it's fair okay so I was trying to take it all in but obviously I hadn't watched the first season of X-Men 90s

1:25:21Pilot TV Hosts:but did you watch the X-Men the animated series in the 90s

1:25:24Esther Smith:yeah I watched it

1:25:25Pilot TV Hosts:but I can't remember it did you

1:25:28Esther Smith:Yeah, because I've got an older brother and my brother would watch all of that. So I watched every... That's why I like superheroes and Marvel.

1:25:35Pilot TV Hosts:It was no Jason the Weald Warriors, but you know. Oh, that's great.

1:25:37Esther Smith:No, that's why I love all that kind of stuff because I'm not as forced to watch it because then you end up liking it, don't you? But anyway, right. So we've got to stop Apocalypse from taking over reality, okay? Yeah. Wow, okay. Meanwhile, back in the home era, you've got Jubilee and Sunspot and are they trying to save their son?

1:25:57Pilot TV Hosts:Well, you wouldn't know because they're not in the first episode. Okay, I don't know.

1:26:00Esther Smith:Right. I'm very confused.

1:26:00Pilot TV Hosts:But yes, they will tell you they're trailed at the very end of the first episode. We know that they're...

1:26:04Esther Smith:And who's trying to save their son in this first one?

1:26:06Pilot TV Hosts:That would be Cyclops and Jean Grey. Their son, of course, being Nathan Summers, who grows up to be Cable in the future. And he is infected with a kind of cybernetic virus, which is, you know, constantly battling with.

1:26:15Esther Smith:I'm just going to say, I have not watched X-Men for so long, I literally can't remember who anyone is. Storm is the one who manipulates Storms. Halle Berry, I know who Storm is. like listen everyone knows who Storm is okay everyone knows who Wolverine is I'm talking about maybe the lesser known ones

1:26:31Pilot TV Hosts:Bishop and Forge and the likes of who's someone with a headband I think that's are you referring to Forge oh I don't know the one who's hopping around in time the guy with the headband looks like John Travolta oh someone looks like John Travolta

1:26:42Esther Smith:oh yeah he has got yeah I don't know

1:26:45Pilot TV Hosts:okay I don't remember I haven't watched X-Men

1:26:47Esther Smith:for so long my brother is so obsessed with X-Men he named his first child Xavier and when people try and call him Xavier it's Xavier Charles Xavier that's what he's called his name's not Charles Xavier but he's called Xavier just saying he could have just called his son Charles and been done with it I should have done a re-watch I should have done a re-watch because I'm not up to speed on this I'm sorry get the brother in I should oh god he would love that yes so that's all I know about this right I'm just I am just gonna hammer home the point I do think that you have to consume these type of series on a Saturday morning with a bowl of your favourite cereal it's really hard when you're in an office watching it to kind of get it into your eyes, all right?

1:27:26Esther Smith:And in fairness to us, we only did get this. In fairness to me, I only did get this last night. So I'm probably not the best person. But what I love about this kind of throwback is the music. To me, that takes me back to a time and place where I'm very happy and very comfortable and it's a duvet on the sofa on the Saturday morning. And yeah, this is the kind of thing that I would watch with Gracie and I know that she would really like. as a 45 year old woman I'm not sure I'm just going to watch it off my own back is all I'd say but it was good for the cartoon that it is as a throwback

1:28:04Pilot TV Hosts:that was the analysis from Pilot TV's animation correspondent return now to TV's Boyd Hilton I really liked the title sequence which is basically the same one that the 90s show had I wouldn't know because I didn't ever watch the 90s show

1:28:21Esther Smith:Oh, you never watched? Okay, so he's less than me, okay? I feel better now.

1:28:24Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, not only less than me, I never watched the 90s version, not on the slice of interest. Hardly ever watched any of... Do you like X-Men? I like the X-Men movies, live-action movies. They were good ones. Okay. You know, they vary in quality, obviously, but some of them are really good, some of them are mediocre. Okay. But this was really fun. Like, I showed you each X person, you know, like a little card of them, and the music was fun. As you say, it was like kind of 80s rock, 80s power rock of some kind. But the rest of it was just completely bewildered.

1:28:55Esther Smith:But that's because you're not 13.

1:28:57Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, well. Well, this isn't aimed at 13-year-olds, really. This is aimed at people who watched X-Men when they were 13.

1:29:04Esther Smith:Oh, it's aimed at me. Okay, well, I liked it.

1:29:06Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it's quite, you know, it's quite adult. Is it-ish? Is it? I don't think it is. Fundamentally here, this is, I think, you've stumbled, frankly, in the dark by absolute fluke onto the crux of this issue, which is, who is this for? So, the people that I know who watch here are generally people who either watched X-Men the Animated Series in the 90s and like, oh my God, this is bad, that's so cool, and they've got the same voice actors, by and large, and the same animation style, and it just feels like the same show. Or they're people who I guess are just animation nuts, right? But it's still the same kind of, and to be fair, I don't think X-Men was generally a Saturday morning cartoon.

1:29:43Pilot TV Hosts:Certainly, that's not when I watched it. But it's still essentially a kid's show. Like, it's not an adult. Like, I say, Invincible, right? Invincible uses a similar, shall we say, slightly basic throwback 90s animation style where it looks a bit shit. But it's undeniably adult in tone. It's much more sophisticated in its writing. And Invincible is probably an example of using, you know, really shitty, janky animation, but with very sophisticated storytelling, yeah? This uses the same janky animation, but I would argue and many people who listen to this podcast and who love animation would I'm sure disagree I feel the storytelling is not sophisticated I feel that it is aimed very much at children because it feels a bit basic to me and I think I had this with X-Men 97 the first season I watched it I'm like this isn't for me this is just a kid show and I am no longer 13 I am now much older than that and I don't care anymore

1:30:37Esther Smith:it definitely is a kid's cottage yes this is what I'm saying

1:30:39Pilot TV Hosts:okay fine so I kind of I feel like this isn't like adult animated storytelling this is just a kids cartoon but a lot of adults enjoy it and watch it and I'm sure I will get lots of hate for this because I know there are a lot of people listening to this podcast who love X-Men 97 and one woman who has contributed to this podcast I know is a massive fan of X-Men 97 there is nothing wrong

1:30:56Esther Smith:yeah but there's also absolutely nothing wrong with adults loving

1:31:01Pilot TV Hosts:yeah but I know what you mean because that was the point I was about to make before you launched that excellent monologue no no it's fine because you've summed it up is that I was mystified because I thought it was, I thought the whole show was an adult-oriented animation. But the voice acting and the script. The script. Yeah, it's very easy to follow. It's so easy to follow. Also, just basic. It's so basic. And so I was bewildered because I was like, oh, that was in my mind. I thought it was going to be some quite sophisticated, you know, banter or, I don't know, something or other that would define it as being for adults.

1:31:37Pilot TV Hosts:But no, there isn't. And so, yeah, I felt like I had no wish to watch any of it anymore ever again. And I had this with Invincible, and I often do with animation, is what I call animation voice. Yes. Where they put this incredibly high, like, humans don't talk like this. And I get that, you know, when you're doing an animated show like this, you're not really going for naturalism. It's not fucking cinema verite, right? That's not what they're trying to do. It's definitely not. Right. And so I get it, but it takes me out of it. I can't...

1:32:05Esther Smith:It takes you out of the animation. it does

1:32:08Pilot TV Hosts:the animated voices take you out of the animation so lest we forget Arcane was an animated show that I really really enjoyed it's really good it's beautiful the animation is stunning the acting is great the storyline is multi-layered and complex and it's really engaging that is what I want from an animation I want it to have great storytelling great acting and look stunning this looks dreadful by design to be fair no it is a stylistic choice

1:32:34Esther Smith:it's comforting

1:32:34Pilot TV Hosts:it's a stylistic choice but let's be honest is not pushing the boundaries of animation, right? The voice acting is, again, it's very heightened, very kids cartoony, because that's where it evolved from. And I just don't think the storytelling is sophisticated. It just feels quite basic to me. And bear in mind, I really enjoy the X-Men stories. I like the comics. I like the characters. I'm actually already in the tank for a lot of this stuff. But I still can't bring myself to care, because the storytelling, just for me, is too basic. And I just, yeah, I can't be dealing with it. I'm so sorry.

1:33:04Esther Smith:Wow, James. Okay. well we are in

1:33:07Pilot TV Hosts:agreeance yes sadly our animation bias despite Pilot TV's animation editor being here the real test by the way of my own personal animation bias which I've been very upfront about and I know it's bad but I'm not proud of it no you shouldn't

1:33:21Esther Smith:be

1:33:23Pilot TV Hosts:is Ali Katz is the Ricky Gervais show

1:33:25Esther Smith:oh god that's such a good point but you know

1:33:28Pilot TV Hosts:having already seen the trailer and you know I'm like I think I'm going to be on board with this one yeah but that is in theory that should be a test

1:33:35Esther Smith:Oh, God, I can't wait till we review the next series of Bluey.

1:33:39Pilot TV Hosts:It may happen. It's only a matter of time. It genuinely may happen. Okay, it's been a slightly chaotic podcast. Right, what else is on this week? Well, Little House on the Prairie. Yeah, Steph's seen it. Yeah. By the way, did you like in my character guide piece that he's in Heat that I included the dog? Jack the Dog. I've got so much to say about Jack the Dog. See, yes.

1:33:58Esther Smith:So I will be saying that all next week. It's all about Jack the Dog. It is all about Jack the Dog.

1:34:01Pilot TV Hosts:Jack the Dog is one of the main five characters. We're going to cover Little House on the Prairie on this week's Pilot Plus.

1:34:06Esther Smith:Oh, are we going to do it at Pilot Plus? Yes.

1:34:08Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, fun. Trying is, obviously we spoke to Esther. Yes, season five. Season five starts on Wednesday, the 8th of July, 2026. James, we're particularly interested in this one. There's a documentary produced by Louis Theroux's production company, James, on Wednesday. He's on it, he's on it. Sky Documentaries, Katie Price. Oh my God. nothing to hide

1:34:33Esther Smith:she's got nothing to hide I'm sure she doesn't well

1:34:37Pilot TV Hosts:you know we'll see there is what is Katie Price's

1:34:42Esther Smith:alter ego?

1:34:43Pilot TV Hosts:Jordan yes okay I do know who she is okay I'm just checking I mean that is a good point

1:34:46Esther Smith:yeah

1:34:47Pilot TV Hosts:and remember the Australian thing with Ben Miller and Sally Phillips and their long lost son that's back on Friday on BBC One they form I mentioned Mackenzie Cook and Marty if you remember The Office that's on Wednesday BBC Two 10 o 'clock and I think that's about it. The Westies. Oh, The Westies, of course. Which is on Sunday on MGM+. We're going to cover that on the next week's show. Oh, yes. Yes. Okay, what is our pick of the week? I mean, it's got to be the dark, wasn't it? Oh, God.

1:35:18Esther Smith:I know, I didn't mind human vapour. Oh, did I? Oh, God. No, it's the dark, isn't it? Yeah, because the dark was really good at the end. It's probably the dark.

1:35:25Pilot TV Hosts:It's probably the dark. It's probably the dark.

1:35:26Esther Smith:ITV triumphs. Yay!

1:35:29Pilot TV Hosts:Yes, ITV has won. Oh, God. Right, that's it for this week's podcast. Thankfully. We hope you enjoyed it. It's nearly three o 'clock. It's nearly, honestly, it's taken us three hours to record this podcast. I cannot, we've had a fire alarm. We've had, you know, Steph. We've had so much going on. It's been exhausting, which leaves us with literally an hour left to record our Dutton Branch episodes. We need to get into that. Please leave us a review. Five stars would be lovely. Please don't leave us a view. That would be awful. Be nice. Yeah, exactly. And we will be back to talk Little House on the Prairie on Thursday and our next week's show J.K.

1:36:03Pilot TV Hosts:Simmons is going to be on which is very exciting not just J.K. Simmons J.K. Simmons and Tom Brittany News to Boyd always always first of us and they're going to be talking to Boyd's favourite Helen O 'Hara about the Westies which we'll be reviewing next week as well what else is out next week let's see oh Lucky's next week but we're going to be doing that on Pilot Plus there's a bumper load of bumper stuff yeah there's a lot of stuff Ride or Die is next week oh Ride or Die are we going to do

1:36:26Esther Smith:Ride or Die

1:36:27Pilot TV Hosts:Five Star Weekend The Hawk on Netflix The Hawk Android Android, which is the thing. Android, yes. Diane Morgan. Diane Morgan. And Hot Stopper Forever, though that's a film. Well, is it though? Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Is it? Yeah. It is. It's not coming out in cinemas. It's a feature length episode. It's a streaming film. It's a feature length episode. It's a streaming film.

1:36:45Esther Smith:It's a one-off feature length episode.

1:36:47Pilot TV Hosts:Well, we'll get into that later. Okay, God, I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. I'm not sure we have, but nevertheless, we'll see you on Thursday. Pilot out. You