The Night Manager, Run Away, and Red Eye. With guests Erin Doherty and Malachi Kirby

31:05Yeah. Jack Thorne has done a Lord of the Flies adaptation. That's going to be on quite soon, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And apparently it's going to be, I guess, a bit Rashomon-y. My understanding is each episode will be from the perspective of a different one of the boys. Rashomon-y. Stranded on the island. A bit Rashomon-esque. Yeah, indeed. What else have we got? What else have we got? I've got some things on my list. The Vampire Lestat is due to return to our screens. or rather I should say Interview with the Vampire return but the second series is called The Vampire of the Stat or the third series not the second sorry we've had two seasons already so basically the first two seasons of Interview with the Vampire were the book Interview with the Vampire and then this picks up the book The Vampire of the Stat which was Anne Rice's second novel in the series very very excited about that Sam Reid who you love Kay though not as much as the Night Manager returns as The Vampire of the Stat and that's very very cool Lanterns which is the HBO Green Lantern DC comic thing I'm curious because it's got Carl Chandler in it and Aaron Pierre both of whom are brilliant so I'm more interested about that than I would have been with different casting.

32:05House of the Dragon season 3 of course is this year cannot wait to go back to Westeros that is, is that the show I'm most excited about this year? It might well be actually what else have we got? Self question is it? Yes it is Ted Lasso I think is due to come back this year is it not? Oh okay. Isn't that this year? I'm pretty sure it's this year. Maybe they've definitely been filming it they've been filming it yeah I think that's out this year and I think Ahsoka season 2 is this year as well if you're into the Star Wars stuff and Vision Quest which is another Marvel show which is out this year which is the kind of continuation of the WandaVision storyline Dune Prophecy gets a second season this year that's one of the ones I'm most excited about Boy do you like Dune Prophecy yeah yeah I do yeah I'm very excited about that yeah that's going to be good I am less excited about Scrubs season 10 which is the kind of legacy sequel not reboot but it's a continuation many years on of bill lawrence's series scrum listen my my man bill lawrence's vault i feel confident that it won't be a disaster fair okay k has faith let's see if that faith is misplaced we'll find out um have you heard boydy i don't know if you're a friday the 13th fan you know crystal lake yes yes which is the kind of prequel series with linda carlini playing mrs vorhees yeah i'm interested in that yeah yeah who knows how that okay but that i mean it's had a bit of a strained um production because this was originally a brian fuller show uh but he essentially was well he left let's just say he left the show uh reasons for which you can kind of look up yeah he's not sure doesn't he show running i mean yeah yeah things things things don't always go to plan and i think this didn't go to plan and he's no longer a part of that show um and i think the studio will be back rivals isn't rivals back this year yeah yeah return to ruttshire later in the year we just had um the queen and she went visited the set um and uh yeah it's gonna be good do you know it it really throws me whenever whenever someone says the queen did something i'm like but she's dead i'm very like that's why i didn't respond to that void immediately like because i think so she's the fucking queen but it's a really curious thing isn't it because in in this country a male consort to a female monarch is not given the title of king but the female consort to a male monarch is given the title of queen it's just inconsistent but it is so you get the duke of Edinburgh but she is technically the queen yes I don't know it blows my mind because I don't like the inconsistency I'm sure there's a reason for it I don't know what it is yeah well we'll address this issue in uh when we get to the future episode yeah um yes no but I'm very excited about rivals coming back.

34:44Okay, good. And isn't there, there is a spin-off, as I understand it, of the Split K called the Split Up. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we've talked about it before in news. I'm excited for that. They had some good cast names that were announced last year. And I didn't know, I didn't know it was TXing this year. I'm not sure when though. No, I don't either. It's just, it's TBC this year apparently. So, and I think that's... Christmas 2020. Christmas this year. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Maybe it's probably that. Everything's going to be New Year's Day. Could be New Year's Day. I'm going to mention one more since you've just been dribbling on for hours now.

35:16Which is... Is it beef season two? Because there's a second season of beef coming. Yeah, that'll be good. Now, this is coming soon this spring. The Other Bennett Sister. Have you heard about this, Kate? Yeah. Ooh, tell me. It's a fresh take on the character of Mary Bennett, who is the middle sister in Pride and Prejudice. And in this show, it's kind of... She gets her own romance. So it's kind of like a revisionist look at Jane Austen's book. But the cast includes Richard E. Grant and Ruth Jones together as Mr. and Mrs. Bennett. So I consider that to be excellent casting. Listen, you know I love Jane Austen, so I will be definitely watching that.

35:59Yeah. Coming soon. Well, that was a minute, very brief, pricey look at what's coming your way on the small screen in 2026. We hope that has in some way been helpful. I mean, it probably hasn't, but sure. Now, Kay, the question is, what do we do next? Are we going to have a listener question? Yes, we are. Oh, we are. Oh, okay. Yes. Hit us with it. This is from an avid listener, sometimes listener, called Kay Ribeiro, who wanted to ask you guys, no, listen, it's a good question. what are your new year's resolutions but like around entertainment this year so i'll give you a clue so mine for example is this year i'm committed to finish a lot of series i started last year for the pod and that didn't get the time to finish um so i'm gonna i've got a little hit list i'm gonna work my way through it also i'm gonna try and read some more books because just mix things up a bit um because i hardly did any reading in 2025 and that's not like me so yeah I'm hitting the library guys an entertainment resolution oh dear can I suggest one for you oh god if this is going to involve shrinking no but I do think maybe you should be more committed to not re-watching I don't re-watch as much as you think I do I'm sorry I'm only saying it because every time we talk about what we've been watching you go oh I've started a massive re-watch of the night manager slash friends slash West Wing.

37:31It was only six episodes. It wasn't that bad. But that was homework. That was homework for us to review The Night Manager because it was coming back and it's been 10 years. What homework was that for? That's mental health homework. I've only re-watched Game of Thrones once. But yeah, you do re-watch a lot of old stuff. But hey, we remember the news article that came out when it said it's emotional regulation, isn't it? It's actually, it's really, it's just good mental health. Yeah. You need to emotionally regulate. You watch something you've seen before so that it's calming and it's soothing. There are a few greater pleasure, I think, than re-watching a great series that you know you love.

38:07So I promise absolutely nothing in that regard. I'm sorry. Okay, well, what are your promises then with regards to entertainment? I'm going to find out what Boyd's are first. Oh God, I don't know. You're going first. I don't have any resolutions. Okay. Go on, Boyd's got one. Come on. There's quite a few shows that I really like watching, watch the first few episodes, you know, review here or you know in my day job um which i don't finish even though i really like them and really want to finish so i think just finishing more of the shows that sometimes go by the wayside a bit like get you know deep into them halfway through even sometimes and just don't quite finish it's quite similar to mine boy though oh is it exactly the same as yours yes pretty much the exact same thing that k said when you weren't listening this is amazing because now boy's been exposed as not listening to me either.

38:57This is sensational. James, you've been vindicated. I was so bowled over by the one about reading, not reading any books, that I forgot the previous. I think it was slightly different what you were saying. No, anyway, whatever. But that's, yeah, it's a good commitment because we do have to watch a lot of first episodes, second episodes, etc. But I also run out of time because of the, like, obviously the vast amount that we're watching. So I think it's a good endeavour to have a sense of completion on some of these series that we love. Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. My resolution is this.

39:23I'm going to go through my sofa list and delete a load of them because I'm looking through my soap list now and I realise that there are a lot of shows on this list that I just don't ever need to watch. Can you give us just three? Just tell us three that you're going to delete. Okay, three that I'm going to delete. I'm going to delete Stathlet's Flats because I'm not going to like it. And it's a comedy, yeah. Do you know what? I'm going to do it now. I'm going to do it live. Oh, it's gone. Stath is no longer on the list. It's a great show if I should watch it. Station Eleven, I watched all of it except for I think the last two episodes.

39:54What? But it's been like, what, three years now? Longer? And at this point, I can't remember anything that came before it. So I think I'm probably going to kick that in the head. James, you genuinely are so confusing to me, right? You're so... You always want to finish... You're so methodical when you're watching. And then sometimes you do this batshit thing where you just watch a whole series and go, yeah, I just didn't watch the last episode. I was like, what's he talking about? I don't know what happened. I think I just ran out of steam. Tokyo Vice is another one. I'm taking that off the list.

40:22That's going. That's gone. right i've deleted it it's gone uh what else have i got on here oh there's some rewatch that succession delete i'm never gonna do it just remove it it's gone uh what else cool summer right that can go as well i'm taking cruel summer off the list uh i think this is something good for you to do over well this is very therapeutic i'm enjoying this why is scott and bailey on my list right that's going aren't you happy i asked this question now and i'm sure the listeners are delighted that they can hear an online deletion i'm sure i'm literally just i'm culling the sofa list as we speak i'm gonna the last one i'm gonna remove is condor which i actually enjoyed quite i quite enjoyed condor but realistically again i'm not gonna go back to it so yeah good luck so we've made progress i've knocked like five or six shows off the sofa list see a good question now i'd politely ask that you shut the app so that when we're talking next you're not just looking down to leave i'm just pruning things from my watchers nope nope nope okay this has been good uh right it is a brand new year but if you would like to send us messages you know where to send them it's pilot tv at empire magazine.com now we're not going to have any news this week do you know why because the news hasn't happened yet so you're going to have to bear with us but we do have some guests specifically malachi kirby and erin doherty so we can't review a thousand blows season two even though it is out this week because it is also embargoed but we do have those two stars with us this week malachi kirby who plays bare knuckle boxer hezekiah moscow and erin doherty who plays girl crime boss mary carr and they're both stopped by to talk to jordan king ahead of stephen knight's show returning to disney plus this friday and this is how it went it is a real pleasure to be joined on the pilot tv podcast by two of the stars of disney plus's a thousand blows we have the queen of the 40 elephants herself erin doherty and we have the king of the east end ring Mr Malachi Kirby how are you both today?

42:21Very good thank you. How are you? I'm good I'm good I literally finished season two just last night so I'm like fresh off of the adrenaline rush of the final episode and yeah it's a very appropriately another knockout run of episodes just to get a pun in very early but I wanted to actually start by asking what it was like for you coming back onto set for the first day of season two as opposed to that first day on season one like was there a sense of pressure at all building on that that great run of first episodes or you know are you familiar enough with this world now that you just wanted to jump straight back in do you know what because we did it back to back um i think we literally had like a week off in between so it felt like we'd never left honestly it was just kind of a continuation of where we'd started so very much felt at home yeah yeah i was like you saying like your last kind of option it was just a raring to go like we had genuinely fallen in love like as a cast and crew but also i i feel you'd be the same like i've fallen in love with mary yeah so i was just like so excited to pick her back up again and to take her on season two's journey yeah and then that creates a really interesting dynamic then when you think about the fact that season two obviously begins with this time jump so we're a year further down the line from the events of of season one on.

43:42And I was just wondering sort of what the conversations that you guys had with each other and with Stephen Knight, the creator, obviously going into season two, like what sort of conversations were you having about Mary and Hezekiah's dynamic going into this series? How much of that, how many of those gaps did you fill for yourselves and how much did you just leave to happen when the cameras were rolling? um to be honest most of it I just kind of left to when the cameras are rolling I like to kind of just be present and instinctive um there was probably a couple of questions that I had about like the general arc and just kind of pacing myself for where I need to get to versus where I start but for the most part I kind of just like turning up and I think because we've done so much of the work for season one already there was already a strong foundation we knew who these people were and the circumstances that they were existing in and so there wasn't so many questions to ask for the next season for me yeah yeah mine was exactly the same yeah just kind of and also i suppose it's it just comes down to trusting steve knight and being like i have complete faith that you are going to take this woman or man wherever they need to go and just surrendering to that and then working day by day because i think like it's also a case of when you're shooting a tv series like there is so much content that you actually just for me anyway i had to do it in bite-sized chunks anyway and just go okay what are we shooting now and then let's give our all to that day yeah um so i didn't like i got to the point when i was just like living day to day what are we doing how can i best serve mary but yeah ultimately it came down to a trust and just a real excitement for what Steve had done with these people.

45:26Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, that almost feels a little bit like it mirrors the sort of pattern of Series 1 kind of being this. I think Hezekiah says in an early episode of Series 1, let's see how the river runs when he arrives in London, and that kind of idea of finding your path as you go. But obviously for Hezekiah and Mary, one of the really beautiful things about that first series was seeing their coming together, this sort of survivor's instincts drawing them closer to each other and then they allowed themselves to become vulnerable and we also got to see the kind of fallout of that and then this time around um there's a in one of the early episodes you you sort of talk to each other and you say one of you is uh a queen without a palace the other is a boxer without a ring you're a man and a woman with no what no nice words to say to each other and i just wondered for yourselves like you bring so much warmth to your pairing in that first series how did it feel then to be playing the opposite side of that on the emotional spectrum going into series d i didn't like it i just want them to get back together and be happy again do you know what i mean he's just keep telling you've saw it out yeah but mary's like trying it like she like respects and sees what you need but she's like a toddler almost like she's done one thing her whole life and then you rock up and she's like how do i navigate this so she's like miles and miles behind you and your like level of emotional intelligence that it's just like it's a little bit of a I mean it is it's it's a it's a kind of cat and mouse how do we make this that's what season two is essentially is they're both trying and wanting each other but not really understanding how to make it work yeah but it's like that was so fun to play yeah but we didn't get that many scenes no we didn't because yeah i'll stop biting the finger but yeah so you you have you have you have got a really interesting sort of setup with a thousand blows where obviously you've both worked in historical dramas before and you both worked in in sort of stories based on real life stories so obviously for yourself malachi with roots and my name is leon and then for yourself aram things like firebrand the crown and i do i do wonder you're getting to play these people that and it's probably something you've been asked about a lot that you you're playing people that existed but you're playing them in scenarios that stephen knight has created from these paper clippings and things that you know just plausibly could have happened enough that they can they can go in there but in terms of you guys then do you like to go really deep into your research process for for preparing or do you like to sort of be more instinctive?

48:06I feel like Malika, you've already kind of set the tone for how you approach these things with being in the moment, but how do you balance that? There's so much that you could jump into if you wanted to, but also how much do you just let your actor's instincts go? I think for me, as much as it's important for me to be in the moment, when it comes to like telling people's stories, it's really important to do the research, right? And one thing that I found is like it's well not all the time sometimes like there's actual information on the actual person as opposed to just the things that they did but with Hezekiah it was more just like knowing where he existed and some of the stuff that he achieved so in terms of who he actually was there wasn't a lot of information about that so that stuff I have to kind of just make up and use the given circumstances to kind of place it all together and join the dots um and that's a lot of fun you know it's um it's uh you kind of always find yourself getting surprised by the things that they do but also the things that they're capable of doing and the people they're capable of being um and i love again it's kind of credit to steve knight's writing that like these are none of these characters are one-dimensional like at any point in the show like there's always layers in every moment of them um so yeah there's always a lot of fun to play with i mine is my kind of process is very similar like i'll do the work kind of prior to so it kind of all happened before we'd even started shooting season one um did all that i could there but then there's something magic that happens that like it's just it's by spending a certain amount of time in someone's shoes they just kind of begin to really live and it's only because of all the groundwork that they're able to come alive.

49:53But then there's something for me really exciting about rocking up every day and having no preconceived notion of how a scene's going to go. Yeah. You kind of just discover it as you're going. Yeah. Maybe I have an idea of how Hes is going to feel when he first meets Mary, but then I meet you and I'm like, oh, this is how I feel. Yeah. And you have to use that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really fun. And also it's a credit to obviously the writing because the scenes can be done in a multitude of ways. So you could find yourself making one decision and then you go for take three and you're like, oh, then we went down that path.

50:28Like it's so, these characters are so real that it's, the whole thing is malleable, which is like, I think that's the gift of playing real people is that it's there, it's there for you. So you can just kind of go on any journey that any director or creative wants to go on. Yeah, that's really fascinating to hear. I was lucky enough to, I spoke with Stephen last week for our website, and he talked about the kind of the benefit that he felt as a writer of having you guys come on board the project so early. So he was only, I think, on writing episode two when you guys were first cast. And he talked to me, something that I thought was really interesting was that he spoke about how he hasn't been able to help writing to the actors.

51:15so his idea of who Hezekiah was informed by research and things obviously going into it changed completely once he saw you Malachi starting to embody and explore that character you know you found grace notes within him that Stephen wouldn't have known was there until he saw you playing them and he said that that's greatly informed the writing going into season 2 and you both talk sort of so passionately about these real figures and how real they feel and I just wondered whether that's a two-way stream then where not only are you bringing a lot of yourselves and your acting sensibilities to these characters, but do you find elements of Mary and Hezekiah seeping into you, into your sense of self when you come off set?

51:59Hmm. I'm very intentional about not doing that now and kind of making sure that there's a boundary between myself and my own heart and my own state of being and the characters. but there are things about hezekiah hezekiah that i kind of aspire to um and honestly things about mary that i aspire to and so like i can kind of take that like i would in everyday life and go oh i like these traits and i like how that looks and i like what those traits are able to achieve and work towards that but in terms of like consciously carrying it or keeping it with the character that's that's like a that's a boundary for me yeah mine's very similar like i think consciously i love putting my own clothes on at the end of the day and getting in the car and going home like that's lovely but i do think naturally subconsciously when you're living inside someone's brain like they're going to hang about like they're gonna yeah and there is something and it's only once you leave a job that you realize where that subconscious has been located and like the kind of small subtle influences that that may have been having over your life or the way that you just carry yourself um so yeah I found like when we fully fully finished shooting both seasons back to back and I'd stepped away from Mary for a bit I think yeah like she was she was kind of giving me a little bit of like confidence maybe like It's just something as simple as that.

53:30I think whoever you're embodying, they do kind of get in there. They do. Yeah, that's really interesting insight. And I mean, you've both obviously played characters as well that have, at least as a viewer, it feels like it's necessitated you going to some of those places where maybe you would, coming out the other side of it, want to be a bit more guarded or a bit more intentional with creating those boundaries. I think about when I watched Roots for the first time, Malachi, and how powerful I found that experience. And I think about adolescence even earlier this year for yourself, Aaron. But yeah, that's really interesting to hear.

54:05And something else to sort of move away from slightly heavier territory for a moment, but something else that I really love about A Foul, Bows and Blows is it's such an immersive world that's been built. Obviously, we talk a lot about the incredible set that you're getting to walk on day to day. The production design from Tom Burton, costume design from Maya Meschida. shout out to both of them for an incredible job on season two but something that really really i don't know what it is about it but it just really struck me in season two especially is the presence of supporting artists and extras and how busy and bustling they make so many of the scenes in this series and i wonder for yourselves as actors getting to work among this sort of very lively atmosphere what that gives you and and how much you appreciate having you know if you're going to have a crowd scene you've actually got a proper crowd there to play off of what does that do for you guys honestly for me those guys the supporting artists are like the backbone of this you know and there's there's times in the past where you know sets can kind of treat supporting artists like furniture and like actually you know like i love the fact that with this crew like everyone is important everyone is relevant and everyone is treated as such and you just get better art out of that you know when you realize that these people in the background are actually contributing to the show they're not just passing by like they need to know what world they're existing in um so that they can actually exist with us as opposed to just beside us you know and they do that you know and honestly they're so what's the word um uh when you give a lot um generous with their energy like they're they're probably on set longer than anybody else in terms of like cars they don't ever get off and they're just always on do you know what i mean like they never turn off and like genuinely across the board seem happy to be there as well which I think is testament to the environment it created there so honestly yeah it's it's um it wouldn't have been the same about them yeah I second that wholeheartedly like even just like because obviously we were so lucky to just have that that world built for us so we spent so long on that set so we end like by the time it came to season two like you you really really knew these people and so you were genuinely like looking for those little glances even with the people that like so it enriched everything and made it so much more like your your imagination just flew because everything was done for you yeah like it it wasn't like because a lot of the time like you're rocking up you've just got you've got especially on tv like you don't have very long to get certain scenes but when everything's there you just you're you're like diving into victorian london and like those people made that possible yeah yeah well on that note uh thank you for helping us dive into victorian london again with season two i very much hope that there will be seasons three four or five and many more to come but um yeah thank you so much for your time guys it's been lovely to talk to you both i know enjoy the rest of your day thank you that was malachi kirby and erin doherty and now it is time for this week's reviews and if you are wondering at any point why i do not turn to boydy at the end of each review and say boydy when is this out it's because every single one of these aired on new year's day so you can watch them all now but that said the first we are tackling this week is the night manager season two which joins us 10 years after the first series made its debut based as it was on the novel of the same name by john le carré and starring tom hiddleston as nocturnal hotelier jonathan pine who gets caught up in the kind of high risk high reward world of hugh lorry's charismatic arms dealer and so this now a decade on jonathan pine or is it thomas quince or andrew birch he's a man of many names uh but he's now operating under a completely different identity because pine and quince and birch have been erased from the record and he's now heading up the security services night owl service where they conduct covert sort of after hours surveillance that is until someone from his past catches up with him boydy as our resident hotelier who has regaled us on many occasions with uh with stories of your stays in purchased accommodation please give us a trip advisor rating for this um yes i don't use trip advisor but if i did um what are the what are their rating system how does the rating system work is it like um is it our five or ten i don't know i don't get to go on holiday Okay.

58:29Yeah, this is highly anticipated because I remember the opening episode of season one of The Night Manager was absolutely spectacular. I remember that was that kind of attack on the family, on the Greek, Hugh Laurie's family on the Greek island. And then he arrived, the night manager arrived and kind of went undercover, infiltrated them. And there was a constant tension of would they work out who he was? and I would say this first the first episode of the new series isn't quite as spectacular as that there's still it ends up in a very exciting situation but I would say it's a slightly slower burn for me this first episode than the first one the original one but that's not to say it's not completely engrossing and compelling because it is and it's just brilliant to have this kind, I love John the Carrier and the characters that he creates with their kind of moral ambiguity and constantly looking into the world of espionage where decisions have to be made for seemingly the greater good but by people who often have no morals whatsoever so it ends up being those constant questions of the right or wrong thing to do and that is very much all present and correct in this new series and I quite like the fact that his character is Tom Hiddleston's character, what do you call him?

59:56Pine. Let's call him Pine for the sake of this. Yeah, let's call him Pine. His original name is like running this kind of like surveillance operation like in a cupboard somewhere in London and he's definitely kind of gone down in terms of glamour and excitement but he seems to be accepting of that and then suddenly he sees this person on, you know, in the, where his cameras are shooting who he thinks was a person he was connected to in season one, connected to Hugh Laurie's character and his nefarious goings on. Richard Onslow Roper. Thank you. Richard Onslow Roper. So there are enough and if you're Coleman's back, all the still alive people are back.

1:00:34And there's an interesting thing going on with Roper's son who's at Ponzi, who's at a Ponzi private school somewhere and is deeply resentful of stuff. So there's lots of strands to it and I was completely gripped and there are enough twists and turns and in the end it is quite spectacular as well because of what happens which even though it's gone out i'm worrying about spoilers but it has gone out and people would have seen it by now but i i basically i really enjoyed it it's very slickly made it's very it's quite cinematic and quite spectacular beautifully filmed and brilliantly directed and yeah it's great what can i say what indeed okay i enjoyed this immensely i do agree with boydo in terms of it being less at first you know a bit more of a slow burn less high octane the first half I'd say but then obviously it really kicks off and so as I discussed I recently um watched the first series because I'd only half watched it so I um did that knowing that this was coming up and it was so acutely tense and um my cortisol was spiking so much I was really nervous about this one and that's the thing about these um this show is that it maintains such a high level of tension and stress that it should be something that I cannot watch but yeah it's so well made and so brilliant done the cast is fantastic as you've noted i also want to mention the fact that um the reverend from this country paul shahidi yeah yeah he's in it as well which was a bonus for me um and yeah i just thought it was great and because i have watched it um more recently i just think that tom hiddleston is still so convincing i'm saying pine fresh like Like he is in good nick and he's in good nick and you just kind of think, yeah, I really believe that this is a guy who has, you know, 10 years on or whatever it is and is still sort of committed to this role.

1:02:25And, you know, he's kind of this loner who has to necessarily keep off grid. And so he's taken on this night owl's job, but always itching to get involved in something bigger. And he gets that opportunity. And of course, there is a beautiful woman involved as there is bound to be. But yeah, I just thought, I mean, it's glamorous. It's thrilling. it's just the night manager is synonymous with excellent quality and it doesn't disappoint this time we talked about this when i was uh doing my rewatch of it it's just that it's so continent hopping and it's so location based and it's they go from one stunning place to another in the first series uh and this one again it begins in london but they end up in south america so there's a lot of that going on there it still looks wonderful it's i thought a little bit harder to parse than the first one the first one has a it hasn't almost i mean it's based on a book so it does have that kind of very tight literary structure to it where you have that really engaging egyptian prologue and then you go into him in i think it's switzerland and then that sets up the whole roper saga which kind of plays out bit by bit this felt a little bit less clear to me just in the structure not in that i was finding it particularly hard to follow but just there's a there it doesn't quite have that almost perfectly constructed feel to it and i bear in mind i'm only going off the first two episodes so it may well develop that going on to be fair so i've only seen the first two and i've enjoyed it enormously but this one we should say obviously not being based on a le carré novel this is an original story for television um i suppose going into this i was a bit like oh will it live up to it will it be as good i don't know and while a lot of the characters from the first series do turn up it is sometimes a bit of a kind of like tip of the hat rather than a you know the returning regulars like it is very much here you know uh indira varma in this one hayley squires in this one uh and obviously tom hilston again but the main characters of this obviously camilla camilla marone uh and diego calva uh we won't say exactly who they play here um but it's it's an interesting story it has shall we say dna shared with the first series whether you buy into that aspect of it remains to be seen i think uh but uh but yeah did i love it absolutely yes i did uh but i'm not convinced yet that it's going to be on a par with the first one so i went until this series is done and then we'll see yeah that's the thing the bar is so high that even like even it just being a little bit less than that it's still going to be better than the majority of shows oh yeah 100 i wasn't bored for one second i enjoyed every moment i spent with this yes they will you know i really really loved it but it's again it's just it's so hard to live up to that first season because like when it was a limited series it was one of the best limited series now it's an ongoing concern obviously it's not a qualifier start but um yeah really excited about this loved it everyone should watch we shall see how it plays out will it live up to expectations i don't know let's hope but anyway the night manager which aired on new year's day on bbc one and he's now boydy so did the first two go out on new year's day no what's the deal with the rest of no it then reverts to sunday nights nine sunday nights um so carry on sunday I think I was about to say it'll be on iPlayer but actually I don't know if it will be I think it might be I don't think it should be I think people should have to wait for Sunday I think I should be able to watch them all now well yeah because you're spoiled of course you do you've read that yeah yeah no it'll be on Sunday night so I don't think it will be on iPlayer because I think they'll be keeping it back yeah I think one thing that I thought was quite an interesting take on this is where we find Pine 10 years later after the road and how it's affected him and the choices that he's made, not to spoil anything, about what to do with his life since then.

1:06:04I think it's quite interesting, quite in keeping with the character as well. Hence working in the cupboard, yeah, with the youngsters. As discussed. With the night owls, yeah. Right, next up we have Runaway, or Harlan Coben's Runaway, I should say, to give it its full title, in what has now become something of a New Year's tradition. So this is adapted from Coben's novel of the same name, and it's been adapted by Danny Brocklehurst once again, and once again brings that very specific, slightly heightened tone that Danny Brocklehurst brings to the Harlan Coburn projects. And this is the story of James Nesbitt's Simon Green and the hunt for his runaway daughter.

1:06:38Now, can we please get Kay Ribeiro's review of Harlan Coburn's runaway? You can. So this starts obviously with a flashback and we learn how the young girl, who we learn to be as Paige, has been attacked and then it skips forward to a year on and her dad Simon, played by Jimmy Nesbitt, as you said, is tipped off about her whereabouts as she's gone missing. And then he has this encounter with her and her drug addict boyfriend, which doesn't go very well. And the police come and knocking, let's just say that. The police played by Alfred Enoch. Simultaneously, we learn about this woman played by Ruth Jones.

1:07:19She's called Elena, who's a private investigator who's carrying out a separate investigation. But in time, Simon and Elena's paths will cross. add to that mix john pointing who is also in this seemingly playing a hired assassin so there's a lot going on this is what i'd say the first episode there's a lot going on a lot of characters to get a grip with and different um strands um sorry storyline strands i would say right i wasn't a fan of lazarus because of you know the supernatural element or was it or was it indeed the suspected supernatural element honestly I didn't love this either um which is odd for me because I'm probably the target audience but I felt like while there was a lot going on I didn't feel particularly engaged by the characters or the central story it left me a bit cold and I thought it was clunky in places like for example Ruth's character who you'd think is terrible at her job considering how sort of ham-fisted she is with some of the investigative work she does right and it's really done in this kind of pronounced way of like you know you're watching it thinking how is she not getting caught and you presume she's rubbish at her job and then you're told that actually she's going to be one of the best pis around you're like really uh to use james's intonation do you think that's because of the way it's shot because you know we talk about this that danny brockehurst is kind of because because if you read the harlan coburn books they're not camp or silly really they're quite serious but always these tv adaptations have a slightly silly camp feel to them like subtle like it's not super cam but there's a touch of it like there's a bit here where ruth jones is hiding behind the tree and it's like it's like is this being and you're never quite sure if it's being played for laughs or not and so it's exactly what she seems a bit incompetent because of stuff like that but i think it's just is the tonality of the show which i must admit i do struggle with a little bit i think it's to its detriment because it It makes you feel that, like Ruth was obviously a fantastic actress.

1:09:20It makes you think she's obviously completely terrible and inept, as you say, but she's not meant to be. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, the character, Lena. Yeah. No, God, no. Ruth's not inept at all. Similarly with John Pointing, there's a moment where he is hired to kill someone. And I don't know if that, I mean, maybe I was just like zoned out for a second. I don't think there was a silencer on the gun yet. He's really, you know, he's got a laser fair attitude to the whole thing, you know, about getting caught. seemingly in this time frame that this has been filmed there's no door uh ring doorbells um you know it's just like it it doesn't make sense these adaptations can be quite overblown and exaggerated we saw that with for me once and i actually liked for me once so i don't quite know why this one isn't landing with me but i'm don't think i'll be carrying on do you think lazarus has poisoned the well for you yeah probably that's what's happened um no i mean look i won't have to wait long for another one i'm sure i'll change my mind um when the next adaptation comes out but for now i'm yeah it hasn't hooked me you know it's it's funny you say because i'm like i really like harlan coban's novels i can't say i've read i've read about maybe six or seven of them in total really really like those but i don't always get on with these serious and i do think for me oh you've got a copy of nobody's fool there in your room are you good like but i i find again it's the silly tone which i think a lot of people really like about this i just i need my shit to take itself much more seriously and it and it and it bugs me a little bit so yeah it doesn't quite sit right how did you get on with for me once because that was a similar tone i didn't actually have a problem with it so much there i think i don't know why yeah i'll be interested boyd i imagine you you're signed up well i i really enjoy it yeah i think i think um these these shows are a real treat yeah i mean i think yeah they do have they have a slightly i would describe as an off kilter um tone to them.

1:11:10So, they're constantly, I think it's part of the whole desire to keep us on our toes and not really understand necessarily what's happening. Like, for example, Ruth Jones's character, right, who is a private detective. It's not made clear that she is until, I don't know, halfway through the episode, roughly speaking. And they kind of show her doing stuff that is weird. And, you know, you're like, why is she doing that? Why has she gone to this cafe? to be obsessed with this, one of the people who works there. And almost every single – I think Daniel Brockhoff, who, as you say, does most of the writing.

1:11:46I think there's a writer's room as well. But I think he's constantly trying to reflect that Harlan Coburn is the master of the twist. So the plot plays out and the characters develop in a series of mini twists, you know, that you're kind of like – what was expression – Cade looking askance at me there, listeners, as if I'm talking rubbish, but, you know. Yeah, absolutely.

1:12:11The video's not going out, is it? No, it's not. Well, actually, maybe the video will be going out. It could be. Anyway, yeah, so it's kind of like twisty and turning, even in a micro sense, you know, literally from one scene to the next. And characters behave in a way that you're like, why are they doing that? What possibilities? And that is definitely, that does reflect what happens in the books, I think. But it's the slightly exaggerated, almost comedic, slightly camp sometimes tone that I think you're going on about, James, that isn't in the book, that is different. Yeah, I think that's true.

1:12:47But as a celebration of kind of complicated plotting and pulling the rug from under us as viewers and providing all of these narrative surprises, I really enjoy it. I really and this one is as full if not more full of that stuff than as ever and they're different they're definitely a different tonality to the books but I still really enjoy it I actually really enjoy that there's a self-aware preposterousness to it in a way and the things you listed K like the you know implausible seemingly implausible moments all the way through a lot of the time those implausible moments end up being not that implausible because there's some kind of explanation for it but maybe not always but i just i do really dig really dig i was going to say it sounded like a like an aging rocker i dig this stuff man um i i really enjoy um these shows and i just that but this one in particular the main joy of it for me is unsurprisingly um because i am biased um ruth jones and having a great time as this as a different very different kind of character that we've seen her play in recent times and she uh she goes for it and it's really entertaining.

1:13:56Do you know what? I just also want to mention that Annette Badland's in this and she was, she played Aunt Babe in EastEnders and she's really good. Oh, she's great. I like her role. Yeah. And Minnie Driver plays Simon's wife. Minnie who, I mean, I'm not going to say Renaissance because obviously she, I'm sure she's very prolific, but she's also in Emily in Paris at the moment. Paris, Paris. So she is, yeah, she's everywhere. Well, at least in two shows, yeah. Two shows that I'm watching, Boyd, that is everywhere. Thank you very much. pretty much she's everywhere for k what's your vendetta against mini driver why do you hate mini driver why do you hate mini no i love mini driver yeah sure i think the central the central mystery here like this idea that rather than it being a murder like it's his missing daughter i think that's that's instantly quite hooky and i think the the encounter that he has with her quite early on does draw you in so i actually do think this is a very very grabby show weirdly it was the ruth jones character that pulled me out of this because i think a lot of the a lot of the off kilter slash silly slash camp stuff centered around that character and so i was just i don't know what i'm watching here and it's also distracting me from the part of the show that i'm interested in like i say only based on the first episode so i can't i don't know how that intertwines with it and also there's some decisions that the couple make to you know in this episode I'm a bit like meh.

1:15:20But yeah, I think it is that character. It's nothing to do with Ruth's performance. It's more the character. I think as time goes on, I've seen more episodes. Her relationship with James Nesbitt's character comes to the fore and they form a really good double act together. I think you'll enjoy it more as it goes on if you're deaf to carry on watching under the new New Year's resolution regime in which we're all going to finish. We're all going to finish the shows and start watching. I started self-finish. As well as promising to listen to everything that we all say. That's the biggest challenge of all, isn't it?

1:15:54Really? Yeah. We did for one person more than another. Yeah, I thought Kay's entertainment resolution was going to be, I'm going to give science fiction a chance. I'm really going to throw myself into new genres, strange new worlds. Well, there might be something on the horizon, but I don't want to make any promises just yet. Oh, that's exciting. Are you launching your own sci-fi TV podcast or something? Yeah, I am. What could that mean? That would be amazing. K to the stars. Tantalising. Tantalising. Okay, okay. Runaway, then, which is all available on the Netflix. And was, as of New Year's Day.

1:16:32Finally this week, in our New Year's Day rundown, we have Red Eye, the second series of Red Eye. This is Peter A. Dowling's ITV thriller, which previously saw Richard Armitage on an overnight flight from London to Beijing, but now introduces Martin Compton and a threat to the US embassy. Jing Lucy and Gemma Moore Leslie Sharp, they're all back as well. Boydy, this show does not, in fact, involve a red eye anymore, does it? I guess any more than series two of Vigil involved a submarine. But please do explain all to us. It does have plane-based thrills, though. Because the... Well, first of all, it starts with an opening plane-based thrill which is quite cleverly made, directed and edited and so they kind of, I don't know what the technical term for it is but it's like there's a terrible incident aboard a plane and the images kind of go one after the other and then it goes to black and then there's another image.

1:17:28Is there a technical term for that James? It's like the missing frames where the footage is on and then it cuts out and it cuts back in and then cuts out. I think the technical term is stoppy starty. Stoppy Starty. Yeah, it's a Stoppy Starty. The Stoppy Starty opening plane action. And then it settles down to kind of introduce the characters, the characters from the previous series, catching up with where they are. Jean Lucie's character, Leslie Sharp's character, et cetera. They're all in it, still doing interesting stuff. And then we bring in Marty Compton. And there's a Marty Compton and Jean Lucie's characters are at it.

1:18:09They have history, basically. Arguing rather than at sex. Yeah, as in at each other's throats, I was going to say. They have history, not necessarily romantic, but they have history involving controversial incidents that happened a few years ago. And let's just say there's no love lost between the two of them. And there are, guess what, kids? Jurisdictional disagreements are at the heart of this story because he thinks, Martin Comson thinks, He has jurisdictional powers. And she's like, no, you haven't. You shouldn't be anywhere near this case, whatever the case is that happens in an airport. And then, you know, this stuff is investigated.

1:18:48I'm trying to spoil it, even though it went out New Year's Day. And I think it's all available on ITV, I think, ITVX. Anyway, so they're out of the throats. And then there is a big murder. There's a mystery. But there is plane-based thrills as well, more, even though it's not this literally the red eye because leslie sharp's character madeline is on her way to where's she going um okay i can't remember remember um i think she's returned from the u.s yeah she's she's basically aboard the the plane that is in danger a private jet yeah she she is on a a flashy special governmental jet or something which is the target it becomes clear towards the end of episode one of the mysterious terrorists, if you like.

1:19:37So she's right at the centre. So it's almost like a reverse of series one. With series one, she was on the ground, wasn't she, in her office, looking at the drama playing out in front of her and trying to work out what the best thing to do is with the people, whether Richard Archer's character was good or bad or not. And in this, she's right in the middle of the plane that is being under threat and everyone else is looking at her or looking at what's going on in the plane and elsewhere um particularly led by um jing lucy and martin cobblestone bottom line is i love this stuff as i've said many many times before i said it i mean i love the plane i hosted series one's q and a i think you hosted series 2k like we're all over this show and i remember saying to the guy who writes it peter a dowling who had written a film set up on a plane, how much I enjoyed plane set thrills.

1:20:27And this one, and I was thinking when it was announced there'd be Red Eye 2, are they going to... It's a bit like Hijack, isn't it? It's like, what are they going to do? What mode of transport and what route and where are they going to go to make it feasible that these characters would return and be embroiled in another storyline involving basically plane-based, in this case, thrills. But they pull it off. I was fully involved. I really like the ins and outs of the story as the first episode kicks in and by the end of the first episode I was on board yeah because you really want to know what happened next there's the odd moment again this looks like I don't know what James I'm slightly you know I always worry with an ITV show hopefully the days are gone when we judge a show on its channel or whatever but I thought this was kind of big budget and was quite action packed it feels big budget yeah it's funny you say that but I was just like I was just like you can tell it's ITV like it hasn't yeah I think so I just think there's unfair there is a feel to it I would love to do a test with James right whereby we show him some stuff we don't tell we do it on an anonymous portal and then we get to see if he really can tell or if he's just like you know yeah I feel I'm quite attuned to it because I've been watching Trigger Point all week but I am yeah I don't get me wrong I actually like this I didn't finish season one of Red Eye because I just I just didn't care let's be honest with you i just i didn't it didn't it didn't grab me the first one this one grabbed me to re-watch that's true uh this one grabbed me actually a lot more than the first series did um so i because i maybe it's just the setting like richard armichage on the plane i guess maybe just wasn't doing if i know boy do you love an in-flight you love literal in-flight entertainment um but but i love this like the american embassy someone may or may not be inside like that that interested me so actually the setup of this i think gripped me much more than the first series did.

1:22:17So, yeah, I really like this episode. Well, I think it's because this time around, there's very much two sort of lockbox situations running in parallel. So I think that adds to the excitement. The plane and the embassy. Yeah. And there are two different things happening. For me, this is just totally, I mean, I'm obviously in the big pocket, but I think it's like incredibly tense and thrilling and entertaining. That's the thing. You know, like it feels so entertaining, just what you need in January. and I just whipped through all six episodes and my jaw was dangling with some of the twists. Your jaw was dangling?

1:22:50Yeah, that's what happens when you get paid to do it. Jangling, dangling, dangling, yeah. That's what happens, yeah, exactly with my locked jaw situation. But also, I just love that Martin Compton just really has thrown himself into this role. And he's spoken about this. He's having a lot of fun. He's very good. And I think maybe that's part of the reason why also I like this one. I really like Martin Compton. I think he's incredibly watchable. So, yeah, while I do still maintain that this has a very ITV sheen to it, and I don't mean that necessarily in a disparaging way, just because you can see it has an ITV.

1:23:25That's exactly what you mean. And do you know what? I'm making an executive decision here. This is what your entertainment-based resolution is, not to be a twat about the channels. Don't be a channel snob. Is that what my resolution is? Well, you can phrase it as snob. I say twat. Yeah, just do that. All I'm saying is, despite that, I liked this. And so I think people should watch it. And also, I don't think you need to have seen the first season, which is lovely. So you can just jump straight into this because it's an original story. Yeah, that's true. The big question is, what do you watch live on New Year's Day?

1:23:52Sorry, night. What did you watch live on New Year's Day is what you need to say. Well, I've already seen both already. I'm talking to the listeners. Like, what would you recommend? You know, it's the night manager versus red eye. If we could go back in time five days to New Year's Eve, what should people have watched? I think that's the record of this podcast. He still hasn't got that this is the 5th of January. That makes me so happy. Well, basically what you're asking, Boyd, what you're actually asking is, what is our pick of the New Year's Day? Because really that's what we're doing this week, isn't it?

1:24:24It's the pick of the New Year's Day. And my pick of the New Year's Day is the night manager. Yeah, me too. But I would say definitely make time for Red Eye as well. Yes, Kay needs to earn her Benjamins. No, but I loved the first series, you dick.

1:24:42how dare you how dare you call my integrity into question when I I was I was banging on about series one and I didn't host the first series but as we've just found out Boyd did so yeah anyway but definitely like the mic manager is the event TV James cannot judge us taking the shilling from whoever because he introduced Avatar the no-person Avatar I did yes exactly he's in the he's in the pocket of big Avatar I'm in the pocket of big Navi yeah yeah all three and a half fucking hours of it i mean this is very this is very on brand for us to end the new year's podcast where we should be getting on like fresh energy to be like brawling and fighting and you know yeah kicking off yeah it's good times good times uh right so that is our pick of the new year's day who was the night manager uh what are we going to be doing i mean look it's the 15th of december i have no idea what we're doing in january at this stage however all of that said i will say also that out this week uh is a thousand blows which drops on disney plus on the night i don't know what else is out this week because frankly as a month away boy did you know what's out the week commencing the 5th of january i mean i probably do really if i actually oh boy's gonna find out for you hold please caller uh on next week's show i can tell you right here and right now uh hijack season two that airs next week as does the aforementioned star trek starfleet academy on paramount plus uh and while we're mentioning uh hijack idris elba and jim field smith will be on this podcast talking to boydie about that show which is exciting i've got some things i want to mention that are out so there's high potential season two b on disney on the 7th oh okay on wednesday yeah black ops returns for series two on bbc one on the 8th okay which i'm excited about because we love the series but crucially not excited enough to put it in the calendar but that's okay carry on you know i don't know james when will you understand the calendar is not a thing k doesn't besmirch her no i don't get my hands dirty with that i mean no one looks at it for a start if i don't put any fucking calendar then no one also to be fair i tried once and it just wasn't showing up and then i was scared that i'd actually delete the calendar i think you added it to your own personal calendar and not the final calendar as i recall oh god okay and the last thing i just want to mention is um i mean it is a film but it's on netflix um people we meet on vacation is on friday the 9th and that's the one based on emily henry's book it's literally a film i know but it's on netflix and you break that you break that all the time so what's what's good for the goose is good for the gander you're but you berate us for breaking that rule but i'm just yeah i know but i'm not i don't follow my own rules it's a do what she says not what she does situation yeah yeah anyway it's actually quite a big week because there's also um linley which is the new pvc one crime drama about inspector linley not to be confused with inspector the new mysteries which is the same character but years ago um and patience is back on channel four remember that um uh that uh crime drama as well uh and there's a show right all i'll say is there's another the show called waiting for the out which looks interesting on bbc1 there's about six or seven new dramas this week i don't know how what the embargo situation but there's a drama on paramount plus called girl taken have you seen this k no with alphie allen in in it.

1:27:57I like Alfie Allen. All I'm going to say to you is, I won't spoil it, I won't review it, it's heavily embargoed. I've watched it. It's probably the biggest challenge for James that I can possibly think of. Oh my God, he has to watch it. Well, luckily I don't have to because we've already recorded this week's episode. Ah, damn it. Well, it's hardcore, this show. I don't think I wish to be traumatised. Okay. Lastly, and boy, did you mention Can You Keep a Secret? No, I didn't. On the 7th? No. You should? Oh yeah, oh by the way, thank you, yes, with Dawn French and Mark Heep who I interviewed for this very podcast and that will be on next week's pod, yeah.

1:28:34Demonstrating that you cannot, in fact, keep a secret. Indeed. Okay, that is it for this week's show. Oh good God, the first show of 2026, although not even the last one we're recording now in 2025. We hope you enjoyed it. The first we're recording of this week. Please do leave us some kind of review, preferably a positive one, that would be lovely. there has to be some kind of reward for this five back to back podcast I'll give you a medal I'll find some sort of medal and I will present you with it. What are we doing tomorrow? Well we'll do the admin off air why wait? I mean boy do you know what I'm going to say it's all in the calendar anyway we'll be back next week with Idris Elba with Jim Fieldsmith and more of this chaos in the meantime wishing you a very happy new year.

1:29:25Pilot out.