The Pitt, Bait, and Jo Nesbø’s Detective Hole

29:44Well, you did. Because it was just like who the fuck gives a shit about Cassian Andor? And that was a legitimate response until we saw the show. James did. Some other people. It did immediately feel like I was just watching the beginning of another Star Wars film. I was like, oh, this is just like a Star Wars film. Yeah, but that's in a good way. In a good way. That's what I'm saying. It's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. So yeah, okay, well. Yes, you press on with that. I will. But For All Mankind is great. And there is a show this week which we're going to get on to which we're going to review which has Joel Kinnaman in it and it freaked me out not seeing him with a metric ton of prosthetics on him.

30:14Yeah, you talked about this before. So I was like, oh my God, he looks so young. But yeah, that's his actual age. Wow. So it's fine. So, right, just for my own arrangement of my personal life, so should I just go like and or just keep going and just put Paradise to the side for now? I probably would. I think and or benefits from being watched in a kind of chunk. It feels like that. Yes. Okay. If you want to take a quick pause after season one, that's fine. Okay. But yes, it does benefit from, I think... How many episodes are in Andor? It's in blocks, isn't it? So it's 12, I want to say. Okay. So yeah, blocks of three.

30:52If you, like me, are beginning Andor, this is how you should watch it. Okay, great. Thank you. Right, that is what we've been watching. We move on now to this week's listener question. And it is an unconventional question from Liz. And Liz says, Dear Pod Team, First things first, it was lovely to have Kay back recently and then lovely to hear Steph again. Basically, this job share is a win-win for us listeners. Oh, and Kay will be back. Week after next, she'll be back doing two weeks, four episodes. You can exclusively reveal. I can exclusively reveal. Just in time for more Shadow Lord. I know, which I made a complaint about.

31:24Anyway, yes, so she will be back doing, yeah, for your Easter festivities, Kay will be back. Will she bring chocolate? Because if she's not laden with chocolate eggs, she can't come back. All I would say is if you don't give her a Milky Bar chocolate egg, she'll be really upset because she loves Milky Bar chocolate. She loves white chocolate. That's the worst choice I've ever heard. But anyway, back to Liz. Back to Liz. Back to Liz. Liz says, I don't know what made me remember this, but it prompted a question for the pod. There used to be a pub in Angel that would play audio of Blackadder episodes in the toilets.

31:56It might still, I've not been there for a bit. It was a handy refuge during organised fun work nights out. and, in one instance, from an excruciatingly boring date where it was too early to leave. So my question, what other sitcom would make for good toilet refuge audio? Thanks for piloting. You brighten my week. Liz. I'm sorry, I want to know what that pub is. I have been there. Angelic. Do you know what? I don't remember the name of the pub and I didn't even remember that it was an angel, but I have 100 % been there because I remember being delighted at hearing my beloved Blackadder playing in the toilets.

32:28It is known for its Ministry of Magic-style toilets, which play audio clips and soundbites from the popular British sitcom Blackadder, The Angelic. That is fantastic. That's an incredibly shrewd choice, I think. Yeah. Because Blackadder, I mean, yes, it's visually interesting as well, but it's so, the voicing is so caricature. The voicing is so specific. And the skits are quite condensed as well. So I would say, you know, depending on how long you're in there, like you could quite happily get through like a whole scene because they're not that long. If you're in there for big jobs, then you can Jesus maybe you want something else I know but what I'm saying is a quick visit and you can still get like a good you know Baldrick Blackadder scene a bit of Percy a bit of Melchit I wonder how they do it technically like what are they playing what are they how do they what are they doing with this audio do you know what I mean where is it coming from where do they is it on a CD no I mean there's not like a gramophone in the corner playing it's playing out of speakers yeah but no but what's the source right so are they playing just the DVD I don't know that's an interesting question if I were doing it I would probably cut specific scenes and just play the audio of them.

33:35And I imagine since they're famous for it, they probably go to some lengths, right? Yeah, I'm going to phone them after this and ask them how to do what they do. Yeah, and also, do they pick out specific... Oh, this is a good one. Whose idea was it? The more visual ones you'd kind of ideally want to avoid. Because you can't assume, especially with the younger people, that they will have seen. Yeah, I wouldn't do Mr Bean. No, again, which is entirely visual, right? It would just be him going, it's my joke. And you'd be like, what is happening? He's spelling it out. I love it. When James explains your jokes, it's just delightful.

34:04I find it helpful. What Boyd means with that joke is... What Boyd meant when he said the funny thing was this. Yes. I'm going to say in between us. Oh, that's a good call. Oh, thanks, Boyd. That's not a bad shout, actually. Thanks, James. That's a good call. Not bad from James. Well done, Steph. Well done, you. No, that isn't... Well, it's just because it hadn't crossed my mind, but yes, that is a good shout. because again you've got to think about distinctive voices and they do have very distinctive voices you couldn't do Fawlty Towers for obvious reasons because it's deeply problematic these days but if you were to carefully select the scenes you could probably get away with it although that is a very visual show no I think you could hear bus wankers like in the toilet and it would be hilariously funny you could yeah Staff Let's Flats do you remember that sitcom of course yeah do you remember that sitcom from the other year yeah do you remember it yeah it's great I think we actually reviewed it we did I feel like Kay really likes that one I think that's got enough yeah Jamie to meet you and his sister Natasha and then I'm also going to say Parks and Rec if you're in an American toilet or just anyway so I had a question about this because I was thinking that one of you or both of you would mention A Parks and Rec or B The Office but so much of those shows is completely dialogue free reaction shots right okay yeah that's why I have not mentioned over those shows.

35:27No. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, it's a pile on now. Hold on. No, because if you think of Ron, Ron's always just doing really good groans and, you know, annoying reactions. In Parks and Recreation. Yeah, yeah. I guess so. But that's, you know what I mean though, don't you? You guess so. That sort of pseudo-documentary format, there's a lot of, to camera, just blank stares and shocked looks. And I think there's a visual element that I think wouldn't translate. Okay, and I'm going to say another one that I always bring up that no one cares about but me, but King of Queens, because I think that has got, hold on, wait for it.

35:59We're to get people out of the toilets quickly. Yes, Jerry Stiller's... Don't be, just don't. Jerry Stiller's dad in that. Lots of great one-liners. There's also in a little show called Seinfeld. Oh, yeah. Because I always mention it. Good God. Well, now that you've literally shit all over my answers, No, no, no, we've got a huge amount of acclaim. Also figuratively, definitely not literally. Worst use of literally today. And that's saying something, because I've used it about a dozen times. Oh, my God. No, no, no. We absolutely acclaimed the in-betweeners. You should have just stopped there. Yeah, you should have stopped there.

36:30That would be my advice. I'm going to just do one show. Oh, are you? Yes. Because you didn't have enough time to look at it. Well, I didn't have enough time to look at it. Okay. Anyway, go on. Yeah, go on. Anyway, the answer is, which is topical as well, regarding the Oscars. You know what I'm going to say? Oh. Toast of London. I have that now as well. Oh, yes. The best voice in the world, which was utilised brilliantly. he was the announcer he was yeah at the Oscars and if you've seen he did the announcement before the show which is hilarious where he kind of addressed the whole audience and told them you know they're all living in a fantasy world because they're actors and he did all the announcements during the show which by the way the stop me harping on about the Oscars again in brackets the sound was dreadful yeah lots of people have said that it was weird they fucked up they managed to fuck up the sound with one of the biggest live shows in American the TV calendar and you couldn't hear what they were saying half the time.

37:24You couldn't hear Matt Berry's announcements half the time. Anyway, Toast of London is a mainly verbal, the comedy throughout is like funny. You're right. His voice, but also him meeting his mad agent, him meeting his brilliant housemate. It's all dialogue. It's very much not, I mean, there are visual gags, don't get me wrong, but there's a distinctive joy of the words, the vocabulary that he uses as well that makes it absolutely brilliant to listen to. I often listen to the audio book of Toast of London. They did a book, and it's fucking hilarious. So that's just one. My one other would be anything to do with Alan Partridge.

38:03Oh, Alan Partridge. Do you know what's really annoying? Well, that's also how Alan started out, wasn't it? Exactly. That's such a great answer for a question that you've only researched for like three seconds. I'm really jealous. So anyway, my ones are Toast of London. No, no, no, but the in-betweeners, you still... Let's not forget. No, let's not forget. Now let's see. Now James is going to have a list of about 20. No. Rackle through. No. And he's not going to pick the obvious ones. He's going to have gone left field. Come on. No, I'm not. I'm actually, but I'm, I mean, the obvious answer to this is one I'm not allowed to give, which is that Friends is the obvious answer because it's something everybody knows and everyone can quote.

38:40So there's an instant familiarity. So you do not need to see the visual because you will automatically have them playing in your head when you hear it. But I'm not allowed to mention Friends because I overuse it. so I would say if we're keeping in the Blackadder theme Red Dwarf would be a good choice I think oh I love Red Dwarf again very funny distinctive voices distinctive characters relatively short skits I think that would work very well you love Red Dwarf I love Red Dwarf I am such a massive Red Dwarf fan as a Dwarfer no right I met when I was at Empire god this is making me feel really emotional I met the cast of Red Dwarf and I got them to sign something for me and I got them to sign a DVD for me and it is one of such one of my prized possessions I've locked it away so that I because I wanted to put it on display but I did you've locked it away so you don't know what it is because I was so yeah because I was like because I love Red Dwarf so much I was really like me and my brother used to watch Red Dwarf again and again oh god it's amazing Red Dwarf I'm going to do a rewatch it is very good do you love Red Dwarf you're like groomed to like it I know I just I love it do you know what I've never ever liked Red Dwarf really how can you not like Cat in Red Dwarf it's so funny when did you get where was your access point when did you start watching it what season because that is vital I mean I think I tried it right from the beginning it would appeal to me it did take a little while to get started I actually really like the first couple of seasons but really I think series 3 is when it hits a stride I think all of Red Dwarf is brilliant all of Red Dwarf is brilliant well I think that's an indefensible position because like season 7 and 8 are dreadful let's just agree to agree with me okay because it's yeah I've never I've never ever gone but one thing I realised recently so it went up to Red Dwarf 12 and then there was a film There was a Red Dwarf film.

40:17It was a feature-length episode. It showed on UK TV. And they were going to do a few of those. I'm not sure I ever saw that feature-length film. I might have done, but I don't think I did. I didn't. I don't think we covered it, and I don't think I watched it. So that is something I need to watch. I definitely remember mentioning it as a thing, because they revived it on UK TV, didn't they? Dave or whatever. That was with 10. I want to say Red Dwarf 10. Yeah, and they were massively popular. Yeah, they were. They've got huge ratings, et cetera. I think Red Dwarf is such a specific type of comedy that you're so you either absolutely love it or you just I don't get it apart from the sci-fi setting I think it's like not the kind of thing James would normally like you're right because it's quite silly it's quite silly but again I think you get the grandfather clause for a lot of this where it gets grandfathered in because it was a formative comedy for me like that Blackadder 40 Towers they were all formative comedies for me so yeah it will always have a special place in my heart it just never had the wit for me of Blackadder I'm sorry Danny John Jules as a cat does not Are you joking?

41:15He's one of the greatest characters ever. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You've got to... Come on. You've got to appreciate that he's a great character. He's hilariously funny. No? I don't find him hilariously funny, no. I thought Rimmer had the best lines. Rimmer always had the best lines. No, no, I don't... Oh, God. We should do a Red Dwarf. We should. A Red Dwarf watch-along. We watch the whole show end-to-end. Oh, it's fabulous. So that would be mine. And the other thing that I was thinking was, it's about mellifluous voices. And we review another show. It's about what? Mellifluous voices. Do you? Right.

41:45Okay. I'm going to, right. Hold on. Okay. Stop. Stop it, right? You keep using incredibly long words, right? And not only do you use them, use long words, but you say them really quickly, okay? And then I don't know what they mean, and I don't want to look stupid, so I have to nod. But now I'm going to have to, I thought you were saying maleficent. I was like, what is he talking about? Maleficent voices. No, I'm just basically giving you ammunition to moan decay about on your group chat. It's just sort of sweet sounding voices. Did you know what that meant? Yeah. It's pleasant to listen to. Sort of melodious, if you will.

42:24So we are reviewing a show later on. It contains the best Patrick Stewart joke I have ever heard. Like it was a proper stand up and applause moment for me. I was thrilled to bits with it. And that made me realise that Patrick Stewart, he could read the phone book and it would be just delightful. for. So I actually think on those grounds alone, Star Trek The Next Generation would not be a bad show. Because you've basically got Sir Pat Stu just talking about photon torpedoes. Didn't the listeners specify comedies though? They did, but I've gone off-piste. Of course you have. I'm going to try and use the word mellifluous in a sentence today.

42:55Or mellifluous, you know, whatever. Either one. Do it in one of your crime stories. A mellifluous murder. Yeah, a mellifluous stabbing. No, I'm going to use it. I've never heard that word before. I can't be the only one. Well, I think we have exhaustively answered that toilet soundtrack question. So if you would like to send in a query, a thought, a question, feedback, anything you want, it is pilotTV at empiremagazine.com. Fabulous. Now, you sure, Boyd, you haven't interviewed anyone that I need to drop in here? Because if you haven't, we'll then move on to news. It's entirely possible. It is possible.

43:27No? I don't think so. No. News it is then. Who's got news for me? I have. Have we mentioned the BTS documentary that's coming out 27th of March? No. do you mean K-pop BTS? yes what do you mean why are you scoffing? you're just deliberately provoking James now aren't you with these pop culture references you know BTS everybody likes BTS behind the scenes why is he doing this to me today Boyd why why why last week something unusual about it no that's true ok right I'm going to move on anyway BTS for all you BTS fans out there documentary is on 27th of March Netflix which is a week fantastic because they're back, back, back.

44:07Now, this is something I'm very excited about and I think you will be, this is very much an access point for people who don't particularly like true crime but do like Vicky McClure, which I think is everybody, okay? So Vicky McClure is going to be doing a show called Britain's Murder Map, right? It's a documentary series for Sky History with historian Johnny Owen, a five-part series. Looks fabulous. Her partner. Is that her partner? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Do you know what else I didn't know? I didn't know. What mellifluous meant. I didn't know what mellifluous meant. I can't be the only one.

44:46And I have a degree. I have a master's, and I didn't know what that meant. Do you know what? Publishing. I have my degree in psychology from UCL, no less, and my master's in publishing from London College of Printing. Anyway. Yes, partners. Do you know who I didn't know? I didn't know that Krista Miller was Bill Lawrence's partner. You know, in shrinking. Yeah, vaguely. Kay, where are you, Kay, when I need you? Anyway, okay, Savage River is coming, an Australian crime drama. It's coming to ITVX on the 12th of April, which is exciting. Also something you won't care about because it's crime. Accurate.

45:20Sorry, that Vicky McClure thing is going to be Tuesday the 7th of April. In bigger Vicky McClure news, sorry to trample on your... You're having a McClure off. This is like Dinosaur Off from last week. Go on. More importantly. more importantly they all posted a shots of the read through for the new series of Line of Duty including I wouldn't say that was more important I mean I think she cares about her series Britain's Murder Map okay but come on investigating the murders the Birkin hair murders alright but not only do we get the shot of the the read through of the new season of the long long long awaited the most awaited show in the history of television but also new cast members were announced as well oh who are they Steph let me tell you who they are they include brilliantly Laura Aikman of the City of Zalz and Gavin and Stacey famous remember she played the Gavin and Stacey character his new girlfriend who we thought at the beginning of the final episode she was going to marry yeah exactly oh she's great she's brilliant absolutely brilliant Laura Aikman Levi Brown who you recognise from This Town is in it these are both detectives in the show Amy Lee Hickman who's in Ackley Bridge she is in it and it's all very very exciting Tom Weston-Jones who's in Worry and Sandy Ton Sandy Ton Sandy Ton which we reviewed on this very podcast I seem to remember we did yeah we did and there are returning characters Mark Bonner's character Mark Bonner who's absolutely brilliant Deputy Chief Constable Mark Dryden Owen Teal as Chief Constable Philip Osborne Perry Fitzpatrick as DS Chris Lomax and Christina Chung as DI Nikki Rogerson no Anna Maxwell Martin no Anna Maxwell Martin yet I would personally not be surprised if that becomes a surprise I hope she does come back because she's fabulous she's brilliant in it wasn't she absolutely brilliant but yeah but the fact that this is all happening and presumably they'll start filming at any time now well literally now because they just did the read through it's very exciting yeah in the other Vicky McClure news there also is Paradise which I'm now watching has been confirmed for season three.

47:34Good. I'm glad. Which is interesting, yeah. Which means they don't die at the end of season two. Spoiler for Paradise season two. I mean, one assumed. No, I haven't watched it. I haven't seen it. I don't know. Have you not watched any Paradise? No, no, no. We reviewed it. I watched the first few episodes controversially. Yeah, we did a proper review. Where were you? I don't know. It was probably a K week. It was probably job share. Can we please address the big news of the week? Yes. Like, the big news of the week, the huge news of the week, the seismic, monumental, mellifluous news of the week.

48:04Buffy the Vampire Slayer is no more the Buffy reboot which was like New Sunnydale was it called it's no longer with Chloe Zhao it's no longer happening because apparently yeah a Disney exec didn't like it a Disney exec who apparently crucially does not like Buffy like isn't into Buffy no nixed it killed it it's insane isn't it because Sarah Michelle Gellar has outed that person I didn't notice she'd named them but she said there was a particular exec who just was not a fan of Buffy and just wasn't feeling it. See, that's the kind of thing that might happen on this podcast. You discount, you know, if you say you don't like a certain genre, you discount something, you know?

48:39And you can't do that. You can't do that. Well, you're saying, you're going to axe the podcast because I didn't like Red Dwarf. And this will be my last episode. Right. That seems perfectly reasonable. This was extraordinary. And particularly because of the public nature of Sarah Michelle Gellar revealing what happened. Because you don't really, this happens all the time, I'm sure. You don't normally get someone... Exactly. It's not exposed to the world. Yeah, but it was obviously killed so badly that she was like, oh, I've got nothing to lose. You'd think someone else would step in. They will now.

49:12They will now. They definitely will. You think? Yeah. But, I mean... Sadly for you, they're not going to revive Veronica Mars because I know you were worried about that. Well, I mean, I was. Although, they are reviving Firefly. Oh, see, that's exciting. It is and it isn't. No, it is exciting. We like Firefly. It is. Nathan Fillion? Yes. we love it we love it obviously we're sort of the Whedon in the room is something we're just avoiding with these last two stories let's not talk about that let's not talk about that but what they're doing with Firefly because Nathan Fillion was speaking to all the cast on social media being like oh something's going to happen something's going to happen turns out it's an wait for it animated series oh and so they're just they're voice acting the roles and obviously animation is not that close to my heart but that's not the reason I'm upset oh the reason I'm upset is this animation takes place between the end of Firefly the show when it got cancelled after 13 episodes.

50:01And Serenity. And Serenity the movie. In that period, which is one of the reasons why it's animation. I'm like, no, actually, I think this show would have been better if they'd continued it after Serenity. So after Serenity. So as their actual ages, you know, live action thing. I mean, yes, Alan Tudyk wouldn't be in it, you know, so you'd lose certain characters. Spoiler for Serenity. Oh, well, if you haven't watched Serenity, you would literally not give a shit about this news. Absolutely true. But I really want to see, I want to see a grizzled Malcolm Reynolds. You know, I want to see them as they are now.

50:31That's what I want. I want a series. I want the series to continue. After Surrounding, that's what I wanted. So actually, weirdly, this is, I mean, it's great, but also it's a bit disappointing, the nature of it. Yeah, but again, as I said previously, animated series are good access points for if you have people that are small and you want to get them into this kind of stuff. It's good. Sure. Okay, I know you literally don't care. Right, Boyd, sorry, I feel like you hadn't finished your point about things happening behind the scenes and things getting cancelled. Had you finished your point? No, I think I had finished my point.

51:00I thought, yeah, it was unusual. Give you the time that you deserve. Oh, no, and you know what? There was one other thing I was going to say, which was what often weirdly happens is that even though, so it's with Disney, ABC or whatever who are developing it, right? And you'd think, oh, okay, so someone else will step in. But often those people insist on retaining the rights and won't let anyone else make it. So that is the double whammy. That's what happened with EOA, which is the example of what I always go back to. so Netflix cancelled it but they then wouldn't let anyone else make it carry on making it it's like you're the greatest that's being a spoiled child yeah it is a bit but it happens constantly apparently I find it really amazing that one exec could wield so much power it's a flaw in the TV industry system it really is I didn't realise that was the case that it would have one exec could just say no yeah absolutely these things come down to taste you know and often people are stupid enough it kind of happens in all creative worlds really I often think in my history writing for various magazines people decide they don't want you to write about something just because they're not interested in that thing but can't then go beyond their imagination to think well millions of people might be interested in it it's just not me who's interested and that failure is clearly a creative one in this case with the Buffy revival that is now no longer yeah that's true one of Kay's things was there were certain TV shows that she wanted to write about and certain editors we had at the time were like no nobody watches Boyd specifically no no there was one person who was like yeah we can't do anything on Game of Thrones because nobody watches Game of Thrones and we were like what and then somebody else was like yeah EastEnders is it really a thing and we were like oh wow she wasn't having a go at me James no no no I'm not having a go at you I'm having a go at the people above so you say I would never do have a go at you I'm going to mention the big BAFTA news of the week which is that the memorable moment nominations have been revealed was I on the panel deciding this shortlist yes I was oh god this is like when you nominated the micro-Wave moment isn't it here we go yes it is that genius moment just ignore him you tell us your list in which what's her name said micro-Wave Nigella Nigella Lawson thank you I think it's a really good list and I'm biased obviously heavily involved they are six nominated memorable moments and they are adolescence Jamie snapping at the psychologist remember that moment that tete-a-tete hot chocolate moment yeah that moment yeah incredible never look at hot chocolate again Big Boys the scene at the beginning of the finale when he says I didn't make it did I that incredibly moving realisation that actually just gave me chills yeah Blue Lights do you remember Blue Lights James I think I'm liking it all so far here goes sweetie it's quite a James friendly list what's the Blue Lights moment there's the where the police there's an ambush ambush plot to silence the key witness and then like they don't know whether to go or not do you remember they're in the police car yeah yeah and they're like is it should we go shouldn't we go what should we do shouldn't we do and it's incredibly tense okay that's great yeah Celebrity Traitors Alan Cole winning remember the winning moment that was a tough one because a lot of people wanted to have the fart you know yeah what's her name yeah Celia Emery Celia Emery yes but we went for him winning was such a joyous moment you know it's like crying and everything well as you know James and I didn't watch that but we are committed I'm committed sorry to watching the next series of Celebrity Traitors James will not fair enough Unless Sir Patrick Stewart is in it.

54:22Oh yes, we did say that. In which case, I will. You will. I mean, he could be, because he's in one of the sweet shows, as already, the aforementioned, mellifluous tones. Last one laughing, Bob Mortimer and Richard Ayoade's speed date. They were the two finalists, if you like, and they were brilliant together. That was a show full of moments that could have had. They launched season two this week, which I couldn't go to, sadly. And finally, what it feels like for a girl, which I'm very pleased got nominated, because in general, that was just a brilliant, brilliant show. And it was when Byron left Brighton to start university and she introduces herself as Paris.

54:54So she, yeah, it's because it's a trans story. No, I know. We reviewed it. It's a great show. Do you remember? It's absolutely brilliant. So I think it's a really good list and you can vote, public can vote for now at www.bafta.org backslash forward slash moment. Right. You'll find it. Google it. So there you go. It's the only category voted for by members of the public, of course. Which are the ones that really matter. They are the ones that really matter and the actual BAFTA TV Awards. Did you see his face? What? I literally didn't say a thing I did not say a thing you were face acting well because they're voting for members of the public yeah and those are the people that really matter those are the people that press the remote controls yes the people on the ground people on the ground anyway the BAFTA TV Awards are on Sunday the 10th of May 2026 and I'm not being paid by them to publicise this stuff it's just are you allowed to say now what would be your pick I think so what would be your pick do you know what it's hard isn't it it's really hard yeah it's really hard I mean it's apples and pears isn't it?

55:51Apples and oranges whatever the phrase is It's apples and pears stairs Yeah that's it because adolescence is an incredibly powerful moment and like shocking and you know scary in a way and then you've got the joy of Alan Carr's win on Trader's I'm kind of torn between those two I love adolescence I feel like it's just you know it could skip this one out because it's had so many awards it's just you know it's had enough Blue Lights it is Bright Wow Wow. I'm going to go for big boys. I love that. I love that. Okay, go for it, yeah. Patrick Wilson and Jason Ritter have been added to the cast of The Last of Us Part 3.

56:27Well, I say The Last of Us Part 3, The Last of Us Season 3, it's actually Part 2. This is the news we've all been waiting for. It is, do you know why? Because Patrick Wilson is playing Jerry. Okay, right. This is the one thing I don't watch, so you know I don't watch this. That's Abby's dad. That's quite a pivotal role. I don't know who Abby is. Well, that's not my fault. Is Abby the little... Caitlin Dever. Is she played by the Game of Thrones lady? No, no, that's Ellie. Ellie, right, okay. And Jason Britta is playing a WLF soldier called Hanley. Okay. WWF. Yes, the Washington Liberation Front.

56:59Not WWF, that's something very different. Okay. Essentially, this is telling the same story as Series 2, but from a different point of view, right? Yes, that is exactly what's happening. Yeah. Okay. You know, we have mentioned this before, it is apocalyptic, isn't it? Oh, but it's so good. I think you'd like it. Okay, I'm going to try it. I think you would like it. Once I've done Andor Paradise, the Mars programme. The Mars programme, what's it called? For All Mankind. For All Mankind. And a spin-off. I'm going to do the last one. The Starfleet thing or whatever. No, not Starfleet. What is it called?

57:28Star City. You know what you need, Steph? You need a sofa list. I know, I do need a sofa list. Just of apocalyptic shows. Yes. Just of apocalyptic shows. Apocalyptic shows you need to watch. Okay. All right, I'll put it on my sofa list, which I'm going to make in a minute. Good. Right. We done with news? Yeah. We've moved on. Let's move on from news. And let's go into this week's reviews. up this week, I have decided, for no real reason, we're going to do Bait on Prime Video, and this is a comedy from Ben Carlin. It stars Riz Ahmed as Shah Latif, an actor going through a difficult patch. Until that is, he gets an audition for a Bond film.

58:01Which, to be fair, turns his life upside down. Now, Boydie, tell us about this. This does feature the Patrick Stewart joke that I mentioned, the greatest Patrick Stewart joke of all time, which I'm actually not going to spoil, although it's killing me not to spoil it. But I'm not going to spoil it. So, tell us about this. Yeah, so at the I think each episode begins with Patrick Stewart interviewing Reza Ahmed's character, isn't it? On a podcast. Is it every episode? It's certainly... It's the second episode. Oh, it's not the beginning of the Facebook episode. Crucially, and I'm in... It's one of the reasons why I wanted to start with this, because I'm fascinated to see how this goes.

58:32Because they... And Prime are the worst offenders of this sometimes on their viewing site. The episodes were out of order. Oh, yeah. No, you're right. And so I started watching. I did watch. I'm like, this is a reel in media res. And then, of course, I realized it's episode two at the top. and episode one is at the bottom of the list. So I did watch episode one. Episode one does not begin with a podcast. Oh, okay. Episode two begins with a podcast. I never take notes. You watched episode two. I've watched this out of order. Yes. I thought you might. Because we did this once before with a Prime show.

59:00I can't even remember what it was called. But I remember thinking, I was like, it's really bold and audacious. They don't spoon feed you at all. They go straight into the house and the security. That's episode two. Yeah, that's episode two. Oh, that's episode two, yeah. Yeah. The irony is I was watching, I had to catch up and watch more of episode two because I wanted to, before we reviewed it, and you were saying to me, you haven't watched it? You haven't watched it? I haven't watched it? I was like, well, you haven't watched episode one, it turns out. But I did fathom that, oh, this is not episode one.

59:26And I went back and I watched episode one. I did the same thing and then I checked the episodes. I was like, oh, yes, they're out of order. So because the whole setup of him being auditioning for Bond and being seen by paparazzi outside, he deliberately walks outside and gets seen so that everyone knows about it. You missed that whole shtick. I was so bemused. I was like, why is he needing all the security? Oh, God. Alright, that's going to colour my review of it, so carry on. So this is an interesting thing. I mean, at the time of the comeback, which we reviewed on Plus. Which is thematically very similar.

59:56Very similar. So there are a lot of shows, kind of going back to Curb, which we talked about when we were reviewing the comeback, and Extras, of course. And going back to the Larry Sanders show, it's kind of comedies set in the world of show business with people either playing themselves or playing characters very adjacent to themselves and then the mix of people then the cameos of people being there like Patrick Stewart so Patrick Stewart is in the full mention beginning of episode 2 with the joke that to which James is referring and so it's a it's a world, it's a comedy I feel, I watched this and I thought this is what this is, it's Riz Ahmed Taking the chance.

1:00:43He's kind of reaching almost the peak of his power in the industry to some extent. He can get stuff commissioned, I think. He's just done a version of Hamlet, for fuck's sake. Now, who wants... Which I thought was quite a decent stab at Hamlet. Something different. That's no pun intended, by the way. And he did a modernised update of it. And it was a really interesting film. And I just think he's very popular. He's got a lot of kudos at the moment. He's got a lot of clout. Clout. Yeah. Thank you. that's the word I was desperately grasping for anytime I might not know the other word melodious malefluent malefluent malefluent so this is like for me this is like his chance to show he's got a sense of humour almost because he I love him but I think he's a brilliant actor but like if you think about like Sound of Metal The Night Of which he was absolutely fantastic in one of the great limited series of all time Hamlet as I say he generally takes on pretty heavyweight big roles even when he's doing a big like he's in Venom isn't he like you know he might be playing the villain he plays a kind of Elon Musk's figure but it's rare to see him doing a comedy I think this is almost unique in his career, certainly once he's become this famous of doing a comedy so it is very much, I think it reflects on him his real life situation his background, you know, with his Pakistani family and all of the family scenes are hilarious, he calls his mum mummy, you know, on the one hand he's like dealing with his madcap parents and relatives, the next minute he's auditioning for Bond, you know or being interviewed by Sir Patrick Stewart so I think one of the funny things about it is that contrast all the way through of him trying to maintain this image of someone worthy of playing James Bond while at the same time having a raucous family who are, you know, and in their community who take the piss out of him constantly and they're taking the piss out of each other and aren't really impressed, he won't really be impressed with him until he's actually on screen as James Bond with the gun and the tuxedo and all of that and even though, so the weird thing is even though everyone else is doing the funny stuff, like Gus Kahn is in it playing, I think his cousin yes and his security and his security and they have a lot of great banter to use that awful word but it's Geltacan who's doing the funny stuff and so Rizal Maddiger is kind of the straight man but this is a comedy in exploiting his skill as a straight man you still don't have to have the timing of the good comedic scenes to show he knows what he's doing and he really is I think it's almost harder to be the straight man in comedy it is you're right I think that's true that is a good observation but So I really enjoyed it.

1:03:10I just really enjoyed watching him doing this thing. And I think it's really interesting that I was reading that because this is an MGM Studios production. And, of course, Amazon is now owned by MGM or the bigger overall parent companies. But the point is they own James Bond now. So they're making the next James Bond film. So he actually literally had a conversation with Barbara Broccoli, the legendary Bond producer who sold the rights to MGM slash Amazon. So it all ties together. So I was watching it, first of all, thinking this is quite bold for them to be making fun of the James Bond films to some extent and kind of commenting on the constant speculation that there is, which is absolutely the case.

1:03:52I mean, the number of emails I get from betting people, bookmakers, as they know, every single week saying this is the latest betting on who the fuck the new James Bond's going to be. And so, and he really was connected to being the new James Bond at one point and really did have a meeting about it and so it kind of uses that knowledge and that whole idea of the madness surrounding this character and the casting of that character to good comedic effect. I think my one criticism would be I think for an out-and-out, it is an out-and-out comedy and there's kind of like a kind of B-plot thriller element to it that Gaz Khan's character is particularly involved in which is fine.

1:04:31Weren't quite enough jokes and not so much jokes, there weren't quite enough funny moments for me. I think it needed a little bit of a ratcheting up when it came to the comedy. So I really enjoyed him making fun of himself and him making fun of his family and the whole world of James Bond and all of that and the whole showbiz frenzy surrounding James Bond. But I think, having watched two episodes, including the one that begins with the Patrick Stewart bit, I needed a bit more of the Patrick Stewart joke and I could have done with less of the action-y stuff that gets a bit embroiled in to some extent.

1:05:04That's interesting. But what's also interesting is like, you are right, Riz Ahmed is not known for comedy. But lest we know, we first, I mean, I certainly first know Riz Ahmed from Chris Morris' Four Lions. Yeah, that's true. And I think that's probably the only other comedic thing he's done because he's a master of incredibly deadpan comedy. He's hilarious in Four Lions and he's hilarious in this as well. Obviously, I'm not the comedy guy you were shocked to hear. I thought it was so funny. This was properly funny for me. I think I really like that very dry deadpan sense of humour though so it really tickled me and the conversations he has with his family just absolutely destroyed me yeah they're the best bits so funny now there is quite a lot of cringe in here as well yes but I didn't find it too excruciating so I struggled through the cringe stuff I really liked it I had a really good time with this I want to watch all of it I mean it's only six half hour episodes 25 minute episodes they all drop at once as well so you can probably binge it in one session but yeah loads of fun colour me shocked there you go I like the comedy mark the time and date of all the comedies I'm shocked because there is an incredibly cringy bit in episode 2 which is the episode I started with it turns out episode 2 and I would have said that was like your idea of hell yeah there are certainly moments where I struggled but I found it sufficiently very funny I mean there's a bit in the first episode where he not to spoil anything where he has his mic on where he doesn't realise which is toe-curlingly excruciating.

1:06:34And they milk it because it is an old-school joke. But that scene goes on so long to let you just marinate in the awkwardness, which I thought was smart. But despite all that, it's very funny. Okay. Yeah, I think this is going to be hugely popular. I think I, as I've said before, I come from Luton. As I said before, I come from Luton. Steph from Luton. I say it because I live in a hugely multicultural area and I know lots of Riz Ahmeds and I know lots and lots of Guz Khans. And the moments that I enjoyed about it is because there's a lot of multi-generational living, and it's Eid at the moment.

1:07:10And every night I'm getting a knock on the door, and people's mums are making food and dropping them off. Because there's all these... And that's the stuff that I really enjoyed, because I really related to it, because I know lots of those families that they, you know, they live in these big houses, and, you know, they've got their great-grandparents and their grandparents, and it's, you know, a wonderful way to live. You never need childcare because everyone's there. And someone's always home to look after someone. And these people are just making food all the time for us. So it's great. Okay.

1:07:37And I love the stuff in that house. I thought all those observations were really, really lovely. It didn't have enough of Guz for me. I thought he, I agree with you. I think it didn't have enough jokes because those were so good. And when I watched the trailer, it sort of, it put all those really good jokes already in the trailer. So I was sort of waiting for more. I hadn't seen the trailer. but yeah Riz for me Riz is just I always the night of is so perfect for me that's his role for me and I don't want to say he can't do because obviously he's proven he can do all these other roles I like my Riz in the night of I would just that's a very that's your preferred Riz that's my preferred Riz he is very it is hard as I said to play the straight man in a comedy I wasn't I didn't I didn't love it I didn't really love it it was enjoyable but it wasn't I didn't I don't feel compelled to watch any more of it which is strange for me considering you really liked it I'm now comedy champion on the podcast yeah no I liked it but I don't know I don't think but I do think I think it will be really popular but maybe it's because I started with episode 2 yeah I mean that probably didn't help Steph yeah maybe I wasn't there for I would watch the rest of it for sure okay maybe should I watch episode 1 yes start with episode 1 maybe I'll watch episode 1 or as it's known on my screener list, the finale.

1:08:59Yes. Thanks, Anderson. Rafe Spall is really funny in it. Sorry, mention Rafe Spall. Yes, Rafe Spall. Now, Rafe Spall was an actor for me who I can take Rafe Spall in Under Salt Marsh, 10, 10, 10, 10, and I can take him in comedy. He, for me, I don't have a preferred Rafe, but there's some actors I do have a preferred. Oh, he's funny in everything. He's so... Do you remember him in the English where he's just horrifying and then in Hot Fuzz where he's genuinely properly hilarious. Yeah, he's a great actor. I love Riz. And I'm not saying Riz is not versatile. It's just, that's a very personal opinion of that's how I like my Riz.

1:09:35So, kind of maybe was a little, you know, maybe that took away from my enjoyment. Maybe it did. But he's very handsome in the face. And probably the rest of him I don't know. Handsome in the face. Handsome in the face. He's so handsome in the face, isn't he? He's very watchable. As opposed to handsome in the back? Yeah. At least we're not back on bottoms. It's only a matter of time. Some people do have very handsome backs, You can see Riz Ahmed's front and back when bait drops in its entirety on Prime Video on the 25th of March, which is what day of the week, buddy? It's Wednesday. Wednesday, yeah.

1:10:06It's a funny day to drop. Steph is not approved. I think, actually, I think it's a very common day to drop nowadays. I think Disney's, most Disney rituals arrive on a Wednesday and Prime Video quite often arrives. What do I know? Nothing. Well, next up, we have Yo Nesbas. And yes, I looked it up. That's how you pronounce it. It's Yo Nesba. Yo Nesba. Well done, well done. Yes, Jo Nesbo's Detective Hula. Yes, well done, Jo. Because it's not Jo Nesbo's Detective Hull. Oh, it's what I've been calling it and probably what I will continue to call it. Yes, Jo Nesbo's Detective Hula on Netflix, which adapts the very popular Norwegian detective novel, specifically The Devil's Star, which is what this first season is based on, and it sees a tormented, maverick, alcoholic detective with authority issues, stop me if you've heard this one, on the hunt for a serial killer on the streets of Oslo.

1:10:52Steph. No. You are our resident crime expert. so I think you need to tell us whether this is a no-Nesba or a hula in one I thought you were going to make me do the things and last week if you didn't listen to last week when James made me do all of the introductions it was International Women's Day and it was awful right, okay I'm just going to tell you what I think of this I mean, that is traditionally how reviews work yes I'm going to break with tradition and tell you why did you watch episode two first? did you pick a random episode and just start there? No, I started at the beginning. Now, I'm going to set out my stall here in that, don't judge me, I'm not massively, I don't massively get on with shows that you can read.

1:11:37Oh, you're a subtitle fascist. No, I'm not, I'm not. I don't, so, it detracts my enjoyment. I just, I find it quite, I don't, I'm not a double screener. So, watching and reading at the same time, I find it quite difficult. Well, I would have thought, if you're not a double screener, because the point is with it you can't double screen because you can't take your eyes off the screen you still have to look at the action and read the words and I think the reason for that is that the subtitles are too low in the frame whereas of course if you were Shogun the subtitles are gloriously high in the frame and that makes it all a lot easier yes this is me on the Shogun subtitles again you'd have been particularly hard done by by this one though Steph because unusually for Netflix there wasn't an English dub track at all I don't go in for that no but I always like to put them on and listen to them briefly just to see how terrible they are and there just wasn't one for this which is unusual that was unexpected well what I'm going to say now I bet there will be when it comes out maybe but there wasn't when we watch okay in this week's Joel Kinnaman show because obviously as we've said he's in absolutely everything and he plays Tom I'm not going to pronounce his Voller Tom Voller sure and he is a I don't know if I can say this detective yeah but he's a type of detective a bellend yes okay you can say that it's fine I have not enjoyed a show this much for a very, very long time.

1:12:58I couldn't take my eyes off it. Despite having to read it. Right. And I tell you now, it's absolutely broken, that, because I was like, this is fucking brilliant. I loved it. You know when we did the capture the other day? Yeah. And it had that momentum, and it was thrilling to watch. And I said, I haven't seen anything this good for ages. So you haven't seen anything this good since the week ago when we did it? Which is crazy, because you know something? really impactful and that's usually that's kind of once every three months you see something you're like oh this is really amazing this is so like it it starts with a bang and i suppose it's because it surprised me because i was like oh god i'm not very good at stuff when you have to like read it sometimes it takes away from my enjoyment it's unbelievable it starts with a bang there's a there's a car crash then it you know it's kind of it does that a device that you i don't know whether you like it you don't like it where it kind of does the reverse it's just everything does it I'm a critic of the tiredness of it but sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't it's inevitable this would go down that road you then got the robbery you get the car crash chase thing which is stunning and then you get the robbery which is even more stunning or double whammy of an action super graphic as well very graphic very violent yeah and unexpected and in the same way you know when we had the capture not just keep comparing this to capture we were like and I felt like I said every scene felt like it could be a finale so many things happened in this I was like oh my god what's gonna happen what's gonna happen everything and that really that level of pacing and I don't know whether I don't know why that why that particularly was if it's a if it's some kind of new device that every other scene feels like it could be the end of something it was just it it was so like I was completely gripped I was on the edge of my seat um it the twists in it a lot things I didn't see coming but then I haven't read Yones Poe's books.

1:14:47I have no notes of this. I thought it was absolutely brilliant. I watched three of them and I adhere you to watch as many as you can immediately. I mean, it's no The Capture, but it's... I... No. Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. When you say it's not The Capture, it isn't The Capture because it's a completely different type of thing. But I'm talking about in terms of pacing and thrills and... No, you're using it as the ultimate compliment, but I still don't think it's as good as The Capture. Oh, okay. Go on. Sorry. I was going to say, did either of you watch 2017's The Snowman? Yes. Which is Michael Fassbender as Harry Haller.

1:15:22Famously terrible. Famously terrible adaptation of Joanesba's novels. Okay. Yes. Right, and that's not good. Bad, bad, bad. Well, apparently, part of the reason they did this was to kind of put right what once went wrong. It was to kind of address that huge injustice because Joanesba's massive and that film was horrendous. Right. So that's why this exists. I think for me, the reason the other thing is because it was an unexpected joy to me because I didn't expect to like it. Because of the words on the screen. Well, I know that sounds really ridiculous, but it really does. And again, I'm just going to say I can't be the only one.

1:15:54Sometimes it's really hard to get into something when you're constantly having to look down. And as you say, it is a good point. There's subtitles in white down the bottom. They are too low. I'm elderly now. It's hard to read. Take a leave out of show this book. Just saying. I can't wait at me. Listen, honey. I strain everything. I think. There have been other adaptations of, you know, New Nezbo's books, haven't they, I think? They may well have done. I'm only familiar with The Snowman. I think there's another film on the way as well. Sorry, Boyd, what did you think, though? You didn't think it was as good as The Catcher.

1:16:26Go on. It was, I know what you mean. It's definitely, it's definitely like fast, frenetically paced, had a double whammy of an opening, because as you say, you get the car crash, car chase car crash thing which is brilliantly done and graphic and then you get this robbery situation which is brilliantly done and graphic and then the story kicks in and there's the conflict within the police force with Charles Joe Nordstrom Kinnaman's character yes that's his full name and he is actually Swedish and can actually speak Swedish dialect because I'm so used to seeing him in For All Mankind ageing currently in For All Mankind he's playing like a 95 year old or something with the worst age you make up in history genuinely true although we should say a lot of his dialogue in this is Swedish because his character is Swedish whereas everyone else is speaking Norwegian because it hopefully points out when the dialogue is in Sweden and it touches on that Norwegian-Swedish divide which was in the bridge was it the bridge?

1:17:23Bruen yeah had a lot about that do you remember that? it was like a death was found yeah like the tunnel it was the first one you had Bruen and then you had the bridge and then the UK France one was the tunnel there were so many versions of that yes a lot of bridges a lot of bridges Do you know what they've done now? Is that they've just got rid of the definite article, the, and now everything's just got the one word. Bridge, yes. So now it would just be called bridge. Anyway, carry on. It should really just be called hole. Yeah. Hurler. Hurler. Hurler. So it's definitely like full pelt, and it's got lavish production values.

1:17:57It's quite strikingly shot. It's quite kind of bright and colourfully lit. For a kind of like a... But what happens is at the end of episode one, they kind of introduced the kind of serial killer element to it because there's two things going on there there's the kind of internal conflict within the police storyline and then there's a separate kind of serial killer storyline that kicks in at the end of episode one and that's visually is going to be as all things are involving serial killers it will look like seven and I can tell already Well I was going to say this had a very Fincher-esque filter all the way through it which I think made it look incredibly cinematic like it's stunning Oh no it did look it did look very cinematic yeah more cinematic than a lot of Netflix shows there's this whole theory that still is propagated online by the way that Netflix demand it's just bullshit it's just not true not all Netflix films but this definitely looked they definitely had a heightened cinematic feel as you say so they really went hell for leather and I feel like almost like they were I am imagining the notes from Netflix or whoever I mean this is complete speculation I have no idea but like oh please god start it with a big action thing and then do another action thing and then have another scene that's incredibly exciting and tense because the relentlessness of that does come across.

1:19:07There's a whole bit in the middle though, right? This is, I have some qualms more than, certainly you didn't have any, literally you had no notes. I have a few notes. I was fully drawn in. There's a whole bit in the middle where he's bonding with the kid of his new lover, effectively, Hurler, right? And he takes him to this diving, this swimming pool. The pool, yeah. They break into this swimming pool, basically, so the kid can confront his fear about diving from, by the way, diving into a pool from about like 50 feet. I mean, it's not a new, it's not a fear. it's not an irrational fear any normal person we're fucking terrified it's quite high up it's quite high up and this whole sequence which goes on quite a long time and the way it's shot you kind of half expect the kid to die or something did you get this sense?

1:19:50I thought that was an incredibly necessary scene because what was happening simultaneously at the time yeah it's intercut with another thing happening yeah and the thing is the whole point of that scene is it's really and truly the first time he is letting himself do something aside from work. So actually, it's kind of crucial. It is. I just thought it was, I don't know, I just felt it was slightly forced and I actually felt that I don't necessarily need. They could have had the device of him not picking up his phone to his colleague, which is, I'm trying not to spoil it, without that whole sequence.

1:20:26I don't know, it just felt, I felt there were moments in it where there were sequences that I didn't need to see, weirdly, even though it was incredibly pacey and hectic and fast moving and yet there were still moments I was like, I'm not sure, this feels like a ten part show that I'm not sure needs that bit. I quite liked that sequence. That bit was like, literally, that was like analogous to him calming his mind, you know what I mean? Like his mind was calm, he'd sort of given himself permission to, you know, he's a recovering alcoholic, he'd given himself permission to sit, see how he sits in another world and actually that slow pace of it was sure I get it I get why it's there you just don't want it there yeah a little bit but also the bigger picture for me is that I can't love it quite as much as you I feel like essentially his character and this is no fault of the show because obviously this is a hugely popular character it just feels now in this it feels like a cliche now and that's my and that's the biggest issue with it I agree with you so all of his all of his the drinking and the you know the 12 steps and his dialogue with his shrink and he's abrasive in a kind of Sarah Lund kind of way is he on the spectrum oh and by the way he has almost like Sherlock style mind palace thing going on another character has special powers somehow to be able to see people's faces or whatever well she's got like an eidetic memory hasn't she yeah that's the phrase she's got an eidetic memory put that in your lip to a spike look at her she's glaring at me she with the word so I just it just comes across is all a bit cliched and almost to no fall of its own.

1:22:03It's just that if they got around to making this series 20 years ago, I probably wouldn't have seen so many lead detective characters like this. But he is a maverick who breaks the rules, who drinks. With a troubled past. With a troubled past. And lots of trauma. And lots of trauma. And blah, blah, blah. We've seen this like literally dozens of times before. So you're raging against a formula that's proven to work. And be enjoyable entertainment. I fully admit I did enjoy it. Absolutely. but I think that I didn't quite I don't think I'll ever be able to have quite the level of love you've got for it because it's just it's all a bit seen it all before funnily enough this was exactly how I felt about it like I was watching it and I was like but this is what I was conflicted because I'm watching this I'm like I did a sense check because I'm like on paper like this is just awash with cliche like this character could not be more of a cookie cutter like movie slash TV detective like with his trauma and all of this and his partner's trying to reign in but you know he's a maverick and he can't be trusted did all of this sort of stuff plus there is not a single thing that happened in that first episode that surprised me nothing like i i could i predicted exactly where it would go i thought it was very to be fair it's the first episode and and i knew exactly where it was going to go i knew exactly what was going to happen and i even knew the stupid ways in which the characters were going to react which would annoy me but despite all of that i was so engaged with this oh so engaged you brought it back no genuinely because i thought i thought the acting was fantastic it's very violent, but it really, it has real impact in the way, it's incredibly cinematic, it really is beautifully shot it's really well acted, Joel Kinnaman is great in it as well really, really enjoyed it, and you know, it feels it feels like, I mean, I was about to say it feels like it really has a grip on the material, it should do, Yogi Nesba is literally the showrunner, so like you know, all over the shit, essentially to the same point that Tobias Sandelman, who plays Hula in this, is 6 '3", which is the exact height of the character in the book.

1:23:56So attention to detail, it matters. Nerdy. Exactly. But I thought it was really powerful. Even though nothing surprised me, I do think that's the first episode. And I think, as Boydie mentioned, the whole thrust of this, this devil star, this serial killer thing, it only really ramps up at the very end of this episode. And I suspect it will be very surprising as it goes forward. But I guess my point is that even though the character is cliched and even though there were no surprises for me in the first episode, I thought this was an absolutely kind of like tense, gripping, brilliant hour of television and I absolutely loved it.

1:24:28So I thought it was fantastic. Although, fuck me, those subtitles need to be higher on the screen because I was getting an eye strain constantly doing this. That's what I'm saying though. Up and down, up and down, up and down. But the thing is, yeah, I totally agree with everything you're saying. Obviously, you're my new favourite for everything you said. But yeah, that's the thing and that's why that was my reservation about it. But it overcame that because it is so captivating. I really liked it as well. You just don't get to say it. But it's like you're saying, I really like it, but with the voice that says you don't.

1:24:56The thing with Steph is, Steph is either all in or all out. There is no middle ground. I agree. I'm in the same vein as James. It's full of cliches. It's full of stereotypes. Again, nothing surprised me either about the first episode. And in fact, even to the point where when the serial killer kind of imagery kicks in, you think, oh my God, this is not only Seven, it's like Messiah, it's Luther. This serial killer has been done millions of times before. It's incredibly unoriginal, but it doesn't matter because it's still incredibly entertaining and engaging and enjoyable. And I will definitely find time to watch it.

1:25:31And by the way, this is going to be a gigantic hit. Without a doubt. Right, and I'm coming back to what I always say, and no offence to either of you, in a world where we are telling people what to do and what with their time when they're going to be entertained, this hits the mark. It does, without a doubt. And it's being released in like 130 countries or something. Quantries. 130 countries Well it's on Netflix Yeah I'm just saying It's going to be a global hit Even like the worst thing I'm with you James No what I'm saying is It's going to be number one In that fucking Netflix chart 130 countries Where it's being released Incredible Yeah No It's going to be gigantic Oh, yo, Nesbos.

1:26:21Detective Hula, then. Which lands on Netflix, Wemboidy. Oh, God, you know what? Oh, Jesus. Give it a rustle. It's going to have to be a rustle. Thursday, the 26th of March, 2026. Okay. Fabulous. A day before the BTS documentary on Netflix. Indeed. Which is the crux of news. Finally this week, and I do mean finally, although, frankly, none of us are probably strangers to having to wait around when it comes to hospitals. But, but, finally, the pit lands on these shores. Hooray! With the launch of HBO Max. Good God, it's been a long way. And it's a bit of a landslide of episodes, too, because we don't just get all 15 glorious hours of season one.

1:27:01We also get the start of season two as well, so it's kind of like a pit storm, which I'm very, very excited about. Now, both Boyd and I have banged on about this show at length in the past, so, and it's excellent. Spoiler. Steph, we should probably hear from you because you have not spoken about the pit before, So how much of The Pit have you watched and what did you think? Right. Okay. I'm just going to say this. I think one of the major problems I have is that you two have banged on relentlessly about The Pit. We've had on-air moans about you not having The Pit. This one's watched this many, this one's watched this many.

1:27:36And you both were so enthused with it, saying it was the most amazing thing ever, right, that you kind of ruined it for me. Oh, God. Sorry, Steph. It ruined it for me because obviously it's fantastic. Is it fantastic yet? Is no Wiley, Wile? Wiley, Wiley. Do you know Wiley? Incredible. Is everybody in it? Are all their stories, are all their character arcs really fascinating? Yes. Is the way it's set every hour? Everything about it is brilliant and people will love it. And of course it's really enjoyable. Do you want to watch the whole thing in one sitting? Yes, you do. Question, right. why do you think this is so much more special than any other hospital drama of recent times?

1:28:23And that is a genuine question because I watched it and I tell you what I don't know whether either of you guys watched did you either of you guys watch New Amsterdam? Yes. I watched the first episode. I'm a massive New Amsterdam fan. You're the one are you? No I really enjoyed that. I love Max Goodwin. He's a great doctor. I really like that. You know five seasons. That's what you want. He's a great bedside. I was fine. But, you know, it had freemium in it. It was good. ER, graze, and I'm going to say... Casualty. Yeah, but the thing is, it's all right. Okay, if you're saying that the greatest thing about this is the device of it's every hour.

1:28:58It's real time. It's real time. Okay, yeah, that's nice. Are you saying that it's the graphic nature of the injuries and things that you see? Is it that? Because I'm going to challenge you and say, while I really enjoyed this and it absolutely does deserve all the plaudits it's getting I also really enjoy 24 hours in A &E right so I just it uses but by the way I wasn't sure and I was like what am I missing here because I watched five episodes what am I missing that these guys are seeing or maybe they don't watch as many hospital dramas as I do because I love a hospital drama so Grey's has all the you know the emotional narrative of the characters and the doctors ER had that you know hold it New Amsterdam had it House you missed out the best and that is what I was going to say sorry you've stolen my point House this is not for me better than House well it is up there for me and that's the ultimate House one of my favourite shows of all time yeah me too I'm not taken away from it here's why in answer to your question it's everything it's everything so it's like well it takes stuff from House I think there's a big influence there particularly from House in the way because the diagnosis well a nose character but but also there's diagnosis is a big thing you know there's a lot of all of these patients are coming into the to the er and they've all got their various different ailments and a lot of it is to do with the doctors trying to ascertain what that what is going on with them some of them you know they get it sometimes they get it wrong it's they think it's one thing and it's another so it's got that housey and element to it the mystery element of it and but it's also got the real time thing works brilliantly in terms of ramming home the realism of it.

1:30:37You just feel you're observing stuff you don't get to see. And it's all so authentic to the point where, you know, Empire did a feature, an on-set feature for season two. And what's his name? The writer? I met him. It was Al Horner. We hung out with him in LA and he was telling me that he went on set. So he went on this incredible set, which is all built. It's literally like a functioning actual hospital floor. To the extent where in the drawers there are real things to inject people with. Syringes. Syringes. Things to inject people with. Things to inject people with. It's all unbelievable. And literally the cast can move around, the cameras can move around as if they were filming 24 hours in A &E.

1:31:22And the programme makers have talked about how it's more of an influence of the kind of fixed rig camera shows like that. And they're American equivalents of them as well. Reality shows or documentaries set in a medical setting in hospital setting. That is a huge influence on the show as much as ER or all these other shows that you mentioned were. So it's got incredible level of realism. People have, by the way, if you go online, people will pick at the accuracy of certain things, but you have to, it is a drama. It's not a documentary. So anyway, so you've got the incredibly realistic, authentic nature of it helped by the set, the one setting.

1:31:59It's all within this one setting. It never goes out of it, which again is pretty unique compared to all the other shows you mentioned. so you don't get a kind of like outside the workplace you don't get a domestic view there's none of that and yet they brilliantly weave in the domestic lives of all the main characters and they're all interlinked they've all got issues you know he's got issues with grief of revealing someone dying during Covid which and my one I made this point when I discussed it before after I watched the whole thing on the plane on the Virgin flight is that I did my one complaint was I didn't like the flashback the flashbacks are done in like a hazy soft focus effect.

1:32:36It's like we get he's having flashbacks to a previous trauma and grief. We don't need the fucking that really took it out of me because the whole thing is so brilliantly handled apart from that I think but that's a little niggling point. No I agree with you on that. It does take you out of it. So you've got the real time thing which works brilliantly. You've got the one setting thing which works brilliantly. You've got the private lives and professional lives woven in spectacularly because there are internet connections between the different characters. Then you get it's not only content with having all of the different patients coming in who are all just, there are little character studies of these things.

1:33:09You know these patients within about 30 seconds of you meeting them and they're all incredibly brilliantly well done. The writing on this is genius in that way. And not just the dialogue feels incredibly real with all the jargon they'll have to memorize, but also the way they managed to make characters out of the myriad people arriving in the ER as we're watching it playing out in real time. and there's one story that I won't spoil with the young guy the teenager and the mother that is so brilliantly done and that's almost like that could have been a drama on its own and there are loads of examples of that there's little subplots ABC plots side stories they're all so compelling and gripping and expertly handled and brilliantly acted but the cast is just fucking incredible I love the charge nurse who's in charge of like she's like an angel I mean that word is used for obviously nurses is literally called Angels, quite rightly.

1:34:02But she is such a force for good. And you're like rooting, and she's just so calm amidst the madness. And it depicts the madness of the whole situation, the hectic, relentless nightmare that is being in an ER. And he has to deal with the boss. His boss comes down, and people have said that's inaccurate, but I still think that could happen. So he has political arguments about the funding of the hospital. And patient care scores. Patient care scores and all of that. The political pressure he's under. there's hard my other second criticism which was I'm trying not to bag on about it too much because we're already running out of time is that it doesn't deal with the hideous nightmarish reality much of the American system where you've got to pay for your fucking care it does actually but more in season 2 right I was going to say that sorry Voidy carry on and yeah it does in season 2 which is brilliant so it's like the one thing my one thing complaint about season 1 once you get in season 2 it does do that and season 2 is by the way the four episodes I've watched even more incredibly brilliant than season one.

1:35:02So it's got everything. So it's got elements of all the shows you mentioned done to the peak of its powers. I think it is that good. So what you think is so special about it is that it's basically an amalgamation of everything that's brilliant about all these other shows. Okay, and I'm just saying, of course it's brilliant. And yet I loved it. And had you never spoken about it, I probably would have said this is absolutely unbelievable. And I do think it's amazing. Of course I'm going to watch all of it. I did have a problem with that. having lived in America and having had to deal with that medical system, that insurance system, which is nightmarish, I thought that was severely lacking.

1:35:39It was surprising. When they do the waiting room scenes and you don't ever see any of that and there's certain people come in and they never, the insurance is never questioned, which actually if you ever go into an American hospital, it's the first thing. They do not treat you. You know, it's lots of... I read an interview with one of the showrunners who said that the reason they didn't do it is... Is it stunting? They thought it would detract from the storytelling. And they didn't want to make an overt political... It dismisses a very... The political part, but also the fact that you mentioned the real-time aspect means this has a propulsiveness to it that only real-time shows really can do it that way.

1:36:12Like 24 had it, but this does it much better because 24 used to skip all over the place and there'd be moments with a cougar or you're hanging out with Jack Bauer's wife because he has to get from A to B and so they need to find some shit to spin the wheels while that's happening. Because this is so concentrated, there's no filler at all. It is so propulsive and you know you can't sit in chairs and fill out forms for 20 minutes I don't think that would make a great television so I think that's a large part of it but the character work in this is so good and one thing I know you've seen five episodes just to take a you know to take a Steph line in this I really don't think you can judge it from five episodes Steph because it's 15 episodes long I would say once it gets to I don't know exactly when it is it's coming up towards episode 10 this show shifts into high gear in a way I have rarely seen before and from then on it is fucking pedal to the metal to the finish line you're like oh my god I didn't know it could get any more tense and don't get me wrong I watched this and I was like I've got to watch the next one I've got to watch the next one and I absolutely I was just interested to see because yes and I totally agree it is wonderful and if had I had the time I absolutely would have wanted to watch this in one sitting but I don't get luxury flights on you know two Apple places like you do they're showing it in economy as well as you know so please don't get me wrong I was just interested because you guys had been so so enthused by it I was interested why it seemed to differ from any enthusiasm that I feel that you might have had about any other hospital drama that's what I wanted to know it's not even the point my point isn't even that it's taking all the time from different hospital dramas and doing them better which it does do, it does everything better than most previous hospital dramas it's just in and of itself an incredible piece of work and I think that's what happened in America It took people by surprise, right?

1:37:58It became a massive, massive phenomenon, pop culture phenomenon, just because even the most hardened critic expecting a genre piece, a medical drama, which we've seen, as you listed them all, and I alluded to, mentioned, it is just an incredible piece of work. Because didn't it come out roughly the same time as Pulse on Netflix last year? Yes. Which was almost exactly the same type of thing. I mean, right. That's a brilliant point, to be fair, because the contrast could not be greater. that show was just one cliche after another it was badly done cancelled cancelled everything about this is peak this is HBO taking a genre the medical drama and just delivering the Rolls Royce of that drama but in any ignoring the genre just in any like the way I could go on about it all day the way it deploys the students right yes I know it seems like it's so clever no the character work is unsurpassed I completely agree with you it was honestly just interested.

1:38:54I think one of the best points you made is that it's rare that you get a show where you kind of immediately understand characters' backgrounds without them spoon-feeding you their background and you understand their motivations without it and that is all in the dialogue. And I care about every single one of them. I even care about that really annoying doctor, the student doctor who just wants to do everything. I care about her. She's amazing. Dr. Jurati. She's so annoying but I really care about her. And it's very, rare to get a full raft of characters who you, even kind of two episodes in, you understand them, you understand the motivations, and that is incredibly watchable, and is incredibly clever, and it's all down to the writing.

1:39:36But yeah, I just, I'm just, I was just very interested to see, and you have explained it to me, and I will never ask you again. And our listeners will thank you for that. Fantastic. Well, let's see, what else is out this week that we've missed? So just to say, The Pit is on HBO Max which comes on Thursday the 26th of March. That's important information. Thank you, Boydie. So the whole of season one is available as soon as it starts. And how many of season two? I think it's all week by week so I think it's just one. Because I think it's like ten or so of season two of the end in the States. I think they're just showing it week by week rather than that.

1:40:08That would frustrate me. It is frustrating. That would frustrate me. Don't get me wrong, it's frustrating. We reviewed The Comeback which is on Sky Comedy and now on Monday and Monday evening but it's also on HBO Max when it launches on the Thursday. Just to be confusing, we did review that on Pilot Plus. We also reviewed Peaky Blind as the Immortal Man. So if you want to subscribe to Pilot Plus, please do so. There's a one-off drama about Hugh Edwards, Power, the Downfall of Hugh Edwards. This is Martin Clunes as Hugh Edwards. Incredible piece of casting. Fresh from his absolute triumph in Wuthering Heights.

1:40:38I haven't watched it yet. I'm fascinated to see that. Have you seen the pictures? I've seen the pictures, yeah. It's interesting. For All Mankind starts on Friday. It does. It's back. James has seen it all already. Except for the last two episodes. episodes on Apple TV Friday the 27th. Saturday Night Live will have just started and we can say Tina Fey hosted we'll all have gone out but I'm really interested to see how we speak now how that works if it works. How that particular car crash unfolded. Steady. Oh, judging. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. So you cannot say anything. I'm just guessing.

1:41:07I'm just guessing. It's a busy week. Something very bad is going to happen which is the horror drama on Netflix from Thursday the 26th. There's 10 episodes in that. I read the premise. The premise feels like it's barely going to sustain a 90 minute film. I don't know how they're going to spin this out for 10 episodes we'll see and find out they do Daredevil Born Again yes Wednesday Wednesday the 25th of March Beyond Paradise in the Death in Paradise universe oh god is back on Friday the 27th with what's his name in it Chris Marshall do you know HBO Max just has tons of stuff so you're just going to everything on HBO Max everything on HBO Max I think that might be it in my list anyway it's honestly my favourite part of the book when Boyd does his surprise Oh my God!

1:41:48Oh, this is ours as well! Yes, I don't know what we're going to cover on this week's Pilot Plus yet, but it'll be one of these things. Yes. And it will be delightful. What is our pick of the week? And I have to say, it's a hell of a week. Yeah. It's a big week, yeah. It's the pit, though. I'm going to say Yones. You stick with your Yones. I am, I just... You stick with your hole. I'm going to stick with my hole. It's fabulous. Harry Hula. Yes. I'd say watch all three. All three shows this week, you must watch. Chickening out. Comedy advocate James. But the pit is the best. The pit is obviously the best, but it just feels boring.

1:42:23Hold on. Yo, Nesbys, it's such a different proposition though, just, isn't it? Yeah, it's still not as good as the pit. Okay, all right. That is it for this week's show. We hope you enjoyed it. Please do leave us a review if you haven't already. And if you have, make sure it's five stars. And if it wasn't five stars, make it five stars, please. Please follow us on social media at Boyd Hilton, at Steph Sealand, at James C. Dyer, at Pilot TV Pod. We will be back next week when other things are out, including, but not restricted to, Star Wars Mall Shadow Lord, which I'm sure Kay would enjoy if we did that.

1:42:54And your friends and neighbours comes next week as well, which is very exciting. And Unchosen comes to Netflix. So some of those, all of those, none of those. It's hard to say. Right, that is it. So it's a goodbye from Boyd Hilton. Hello, goodbye. And it's a goodbye from the mellifluous Steph Seeler. Goodbye. Pilot's out.

1:43:17You