The Testaments, 2026, and The Copenhagen Test. With guests Noah Wyle & Katherine LaNasa, Hugh Bonneville & Hugh Skinner

28:48And I was, yeah, I was terrified. I was, so it was all real. It was all real. Yeah, absolutely. I seem to remember as well that you, you were kind of Johnny Bailey's character was horrible to you wasn't he in WNA now what's I don't know what's happened to him Jonathan Bailey but he's yeah did you realise then that he'd become the most handsome man in the world officially wasn't he he's not voted the most handsome man in the world no we all knew we all knew

29:20exactly there's some brilliant new characters there's one character who Nick Castellano who swears literally every single sentence multiple times, multiple F-words, Hugh. And I always thought there was a limit on the number of F-words you could have in a show on the BBC, but clearly not, because there's loads of them on. I know. It's quite a departure for John. I was quite surprised when I saw that. And Paolo, who plays Nick as this sort of punchy New York lawyer, who's a corporate lawyer, who's there to protect all the, you know, not only the legal interests, but mainly the American interests, is quite expletive heavy, which I think takes the slightly more gentle world of Ian Fletcher by surprise.

30:06And he has to suffer this barrage of everything is a sort of combative issue with that character, Nick, who's standing up for God Bless America, really. And it's great because we've got Stephen Kunkin playing the Canadian member of the team who's characteristically sort of self-deprecating and polite and basically apologising for Canada. And then you've got Yumeina who plays, what's her character called? Gabriela, who basically thinks everything should take place in Guadalajara. And so he's defending the Mexican interests. So we have these wonderful international sort of fracture points in each meeting where vested interests are at play.

30:55But no, the character of Nick Castellano is great, where everything is a sort of soprano-esque fight. Yeah, he's hilarious. And also Nick Blood, another Brit, as the brilliantly named Phil Plank, who's an ex-footballer. He's so good at night, isn't he? He's very short. Phil Plank, I think he's claimed to fame that he once played against one of the Nevels when he was coming back from injury in a second team and is sort of completely overawed when the prospect of meeting David Beckham comes on the horizon so he taps into a certain type of British football pundit almost and Nick is brilliantly deadpan at playing it.

31:40He does such an extraordinarily pained look in episode one or two so brilliant. Yeah, reaction shots are key aren't they? and it must take ages, it must take hours to film, because there are a lot of meetings. I mean, we're used to seeing these meetings US, but to get all the reaction shots and to get everyone's close-ups, it must take hours to film those. Yeah, it does. I mean, to be honest, I'm never in the meetings. I'm normally lurking around the corner waiting to come in with something, like madly trying to listen and work out where my cue is. But yeah, it does take a lot. They've got it down to a fine art now.

32:17They have two, if not three cameras on the go. But it is, I mean, considering we were filming supposedly in Miami, where everything would be air conditioned within an inch of its life, we were filming in an old print factory in North London, which had never heard of air conditioning. And we were literally in 100 degrees. It was unbearable. So how the camera team survived, we could at least nip out into an icebox every so often. But they were there sweating away all day. But they were brilliant and very efficient. But yeah, they have certain passes where they mop up reaction shots and little snippets here and there.

32:53So it's a very efficient machine. And in fact, our DOP this time was a sort of junior cameraman on 2012. So it's lovely that he's gone up the ranks and knows the show inside out. So I mean, I was willing to maintain the fiction that the show was filmed in Miami, but clearly, clearly, it wasn't. When you first got the script, you think, oh, we might be going to Miami. or was that soon i did wonder yeah i think yes unfortunately no or no no not unfortunately north london's lovely but no it wasn't miami and like he said the one thing they would have in miami is air conditioning so yes yes there was i think there was one draft of the budget where we did go to miami but that was soon changed and they realized the implications of taking a cast of Miami.

33:45I have to say it's seamless. It's very convincing. Yeah, all the sort of drone shots and the B-roll and everything else. And also the way that Wixie lit it. So it's quite a harsh lighting, you know, and you feel that brightness in the, certainly felt it in the room, not only with the 100 degree heat, but also the lights. It sort of gives it that slightly, you know, that over bright world of the Miami coastline. Well, how did the bits outside as well? How did they make that look? so yeah yeah the outside there are bits of london that look like me i mean yeah who knew yeah um will you uh will um has his headphones in a lot of obviously he has at least progressed to um airpods hasn't he right rather than the wired ones that he has previously wireless yes very he's with he's very up with the up with the times what do you think he's listening to what is he listening to on those headphones that's what i wonder yeah i yes i do as well i mean mainly when got the headphones in i'm just trying to remember when to take them out because with the dialogue that's the uh complicated dance of it but no i think i think he listens to a to a range of stuff i think he has the radio on there i think he has some um i think he probably quite likes cold play i think you're right yeah i think you're right no sign you can rule the world one yeah yeah yeah absolutely she aspires to obviously um yeah and also there's no sign yet of a folding bike hugh hugh bonneville is that do you think that's because they wouldn't look right in in the setting in miami yeah i think i don't think you get very fast cycling around uh miami on a folding bike um i don't think it's that that landscape i rather miss the folding bike it was such a lovely uh um sort of totemic piece of the last two shows uh and of course the the rivalry between the bike riders.

35:34This time, I think that sense of rivalry and jockeying for position is taken over by Hugh's character and Emily, another PA, jockeying for position over coffee pods and who's allowed access to which biscuit tin. And indeed, in my case, which desk is appropriate for me to sit at. I love all those little details that John etches in so that when Ian arrives, supposedly as the boss of the outfit, he's given a desk that's clearly in the middle of the bullpen. And he has to try and find a way of getting up the ladder slightly and getting a better desk. So I think audiences, I mean, you know, like with 2012 and W1A, it's not about either the Olympics or the BBC.

36:14It's about the world of the office and the dynamics between the characters there. And so this isn't, you know, you don't have to enjoy football to enjoy this show. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, there's some brilliant observations about office life, aren't there, Hugh S? there's it's as someone who does work in an office sometimes it is it's it's incredibly accurate as to the jockeying that rivalry etc yeah and your character particularly is will it gets in trouble by picking putting some sweets on the tray with the coffee well yeah and i think the politics of all you know the internal parts of all that as he was saying there with no bike anymore the the espresso machine and things have definitely replaced that and how you negotiate that with a slightly frosty colleague.

36:58Yeah, it's fascinating, yeah. And Ian, I think, is Ian a little bit more assertive this time around, Hugh, do you think? Because as you say, he walks in, he's not happy that he hasn't got an office to himself, and he just takes one, doesn't he? He just kind of walks in, breezes in. Yeah, just grabs one. Yeah. Yes, he then gradually discovers that he's actually literally filling a dead man's shoes as he discovers more and more things around the desk and that his predecessor did leave pretty rapidly, vertically. And so he just discovers that there's this rather strange background to his appointment.

37:34But anyway, he's there, as always, he's there, resilient, hoping to get things over the line before June the 10th, which is obviously the date of the opening ceremony. There's a scene, I think, as well as the observations about Office Stafford Show are fantastic. There's a scene where Ian is in the hotel He's trying to sort out his breakfast and the payment and the card. And that's such a brilliant observation. There's something weirdly difficult, isn't there, about hotel life sometimes. Obviously, first world problems. That's right. Yeah. And even down to the way that his credit card is then presented back to him with two hands.

38:11I love that sort of detail. It's brilliant. But yeah, so Ian has a problem with that there's a payment problem. And it's just driving him nuts. and I sympathise with anyone who has to spend many, many months in a hotel on business. The glamour wears off after about eight minutes. And, you know, he's then offered some weird breakfast alternative package and he just sort of wants to get to work. He doesn't need to stand here at the desk with a rather passive-aggressive, smiling receptionist telling him how it's going to be. Again, I love all that. So, yeah, that actually feeds in later on to him, desperate to get out of this hotel and get into an apartment.

38:48and luckily one of the team might have an out for him in terms of an apartment. So, yeah, he's definitely both... Well, I think, funnily enough, I think Ian's a fish out of water, but Will seems to just go with any water he can find, frankly. Yeah, Will... He sort of charges him like a drain. Yeah. Will might be the only character who isn't passive-aggressive in this world. He just kind of blunders on. He's not thinking about things that much. No, I mean, he's, you know, on the whole, sort of completely useless, almost. But you know, he means really well, you know, he's incredibly well intentioned.

39:28But also, he's just he's so pleased to be there, I think. He's so pleased to have a job. I think, as he says, his parents said in the first episode to finally make something of himself. Yes, exactly. The David Tennant narration is such a... Why is David Tennant so perfect for this, for this, Hugh Bonneville? Can you put your finger on it? Oh, he is the absolute cream on the top, isn't he? I love the earnestness of it and the seriousness, the serious-minded delivery of sometimes utter nonsense. But it's a tone of voice that we've all heard in documentaries like you know that purport to be like this one and um and his support of the show i have to say over whatever it is 15 years now has been absolutely brilliant he's such a key ingredient to the uh to the flavor of the show i think yeah yeah and he's gonna i mean i was interested that john morton he's lots of references to like pop culture very current pop mr beast and you know influencers i couldn't even name you did you did you were you impressed by his that has got a finger on the nub?

40:32Well, yeah, I mean, I obviously had to Google them all as well. So, yeah, I was very impressed. For someone who doesn't get out much, John is really quite well up on things. I was very impressed, yeah. I need to find out how he had his – he was so expert on all of that. Would you like to do more of this? I mean, I would happily watch you guys doing John Wharton shows for the rest of eternity. But would you like to... Oh, my gosh. I say, I always describe it as a bit like doing Root Canal. You know, it's lovely when it's finished. It's agony when you're brewing up for it. But whenever I watch the...

41:13I always swear never again. And then I watch it and I think this is such a lovely show to observe. And everyone is so good in it and that all the elements are so strong that, you know, maybe we'll get dragged out of retirement one more time. I don't know. Hugh, are we going to see Will climb the ladder to the success he so rightly deserves? I don't know. But I mean, yeah, I'd obviously always do it. I just honestly couldn't believe I was asked to do it this time around. But yeah, if I ever got asked to get it, I'd be there in a flash. Good. Yeah, yeah. And there are moments that finally, there are moments when some reaction shots.

41:46There's one in episode two where you look to camera, because we hear the documentary makers, don't we, in this version, which I thought made it feel even more kind of real, really, where it feels like you're about to crack up and start laughing in the middle of it. But is it difficult to keep a straight face or is John Morton rules with such a rod of iron that he won't let you do any of that? Sometimes it is. I mean, they call it spam, when there are moments when David Tennant narrates in the middle of a scene, and sometimes you have to just keep talking to make the space for the narration and go off-piste.

42:22And sometimes that can get very hard. but on the whole, fairly well behaved, I think. Wouldn't you agree, Hugh? Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's so fraught with tension, the set, in terms of just trying to get it right, but then certain people will do certain things and you do just crack. But as I say, when it's 100 degree heat and you've got an exhausted crew, you do try and, well, actually that sometimes makes it worse, you know, when you're really not meant to giggle and you just can't help yourself. But, you know, John is an incredibly patient director for, you know, for someone whose material is, you know, he's worked on for so long and so carefully and every word is well crafted.

43:04We do try and do it right for daddy.

43:09Good to know. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Well, it's a joy to have you both back. And yeah, it's fantastic. Thank you, Boyd. Thanks, as ever, for your support. You've always been a great champion of our show, so thank you. Oh, pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. Cheers, Hugh, and cheers, Hugh. That was Boydy, and Hugh times two. I'm done with poetry, I promise. Okay, shall we move on to a listener question, Kay? Yes, let's. Yes, and I had failed to prepare a listener question this week because, you know, lazy and I'm writing a book, apparently. So you swooped in at the last minute to save the day, did you not?

43:45Well, yes. Well, I thought, is this coming out on Easter Monday? It is. So I thought, hey, guys, what are you watching on Easter Monday? Because obviously everyone's got, well, a lot of people have the day off. Not if you're a freelancer, obviously. But yeah, what are you going to be watching, James, on Easter Monday? What am I going to be watching on Easter Monday? That's a good question. That is a very good question. I wish I had an instant answer to tell you to that question. I know what I want to be watching. I want to be watching the last two episodes of For All Mankind that Apple have yet to give me.

44:12whether I will be able to remains to be seen I will definitely on Easter Monday be watching the fifth episode of The Capture if I didn't have time to watch it on Sunday night so that's very exciting but is there anything on like actually Boyd you're our linear man I'll tell you what's on linearly if you want to know Babies carries on we reviewed Babies last week yeah I heard we got very positive feedback to Steph's review of that people thought it was great yeah incredibly moving review of that it's not exactly cheery stuff for a holiday Monday. But I think, but there's also, yeah, it's bittersweet, I think, is what that show is.

44:50But it's brilliant, obviously. I'm a Celebrity South Africa begins on Easter Monday. That's the big, big, huge blockbuster show, which I'm sure James has got on his calendar, on his watch list. But they've got an incredible lineup on that, including your friend Gemma Collins. Oh. And China with Ben Fogle, I wouldn't say it was like a cornucopia of treats. The comeback continues on Sky Comedy and HBO Max. That's probably the best show full stop on at the moment. And that's going out weekly, airing weekly on HBO and Sky. So those would be the ones I would pick out personally. How about you, Kay?

45:33What are you going to do? Well, I think I'll continue with the other Bennett sister. Very good. Also, I have yet to start The Pit. So I think it's going to be Pit Monday. Oh, yeah, make it Pit Monday. Because you've got all of season one, and you've got, I think they're up, they've nearly finished in America, so we're a bit behind. Season two, yeah, so they've done 12. So yeah, so they've got three left in the States for season two. I feel I need to issue a kind of a PSA about Sky, because if you have Sky, you now have access to Disney Plus. and HBO Max yeah and HBO Max so now you can get both of those through your service so you have to activate them so you have to go into the Sky app can I just say I'm glad you mentioned this because I don't know about you but I have been given just to be transparent that's not why I'm mentioning it but to be transparent I've been given a free pass for HBO Max for I think six months have you been sending this at all as a top free no I think because I didn't go to the party oh really have you activated it yes I can't work out how to do it.

46:42I feel like a complete bozo. Oh, I can help you with this. Oh, thank you. Yes, that's fine. That's why we call him IT James. I've tried to do it like three or four. I'm like, how do you get past the whole... You're actually good at that kind of stuff. To be fair, I had to go a rather circuitous route to do it. Meanwhile, listeners are getting their little violins out. This is major, major third world. Yeah, it's the most entitled thing ever. But, but, but... First of all, last third. But there is... So you have, like I say, you have to activate HBO Max and activate Disney+. Yes. However, if you have an annual subscription to Disney +, you will run into a problem, as I did.

47:18So I had paid in January for 12 months of Disney +, Ultimate. Right. Right? Yes. Now, when I went to the Sky, I activated, oh, take over my Disney +, as you're supposed to do. They took it over, but essentially that then puts my Ultimate subscription on pause, and then they start charging me weekly for Disney +, because what you get included for free is basic Disney Plus with ads. With ads. With ads. And not UHD. And not the UHD version. Oh dear. But it can't carry over, if you've got an annual subscription, that thing. So basically, it now pauses that one that I bought until whatever such time as I no longer have Sky, and then it will re-enactivate.

47:57And then I have to now pay, I think it's£9 a month, which is a discounted rate, through Sky to have it that way. So basically, I guess what I'm saying is, if you have paid annually for Disney Plus, I would maybe recommend waiting until that has elapsed before getting it through Sky before redeeming it. Great tip. That is a good tip. Because, yeah, it tripped me up. That's annoying otherwise and then it's all the admin. Yeah, it's a little bit of admin there. But I mean, look, it's great that Sky do that. I think it's brilliant that they've chosen to do this, that you now get HBO Max. And also, if you have Now TV, you also get HBO Max, which is something I didn't think was true, but actually is true.

48:28Sorry, I meant the admin if that cock-up happens. And I know I just called it Now TV even though it's Now, but you know what I mean. Oh, yeah, but we're still calling it Apple TV so it's all good that's true we just call them what we want it's Apple TV it's an Apple TV Plus oh yeah you and Apple TV you and Apple TV anyway that's my PSA so but have you managed to resurrect your existing nope no oh well that's quite annoying it can't be resurrected oh wow yeah it can't be resurrected because on the oh this is tedious it doesn't matter but on the HBO Max thing which I have tried and failed to sign up to it says existing HBO Max subscribers it won't work so yeah Well, actually, it kind of does work, weirdly.

49:05But you end up with two simultaneous things running back to back. Like I say, it's complicated. So if you already have paid up accounts for either of these things and they're not monthly, maybe let that expire before you sign up. If you are monthly, that's fine. It'll just take over it and it'll sort it all out. Can I also suggest that listeners get directly in touch with James? He'll offer a service whereby he's going to coach you through the process after he's helped Boyd with his free HBO Max subscription. Sure. That's fine. I will be Sky's technical support. I think for Pilot Plus listeners particularly, that would be a good add-on that James is going to offer that service.

49:39Yes, if you're a Pilot Plus subscriber, I will help you with your Sky. Don't you come round. We'll get the white van. We're my little engineer's package. Oh, that sounds weird. Oh, my God. I meant like a tool belt. I don't want to talk about your engineer's package. I mean, you and the tool belt could be an OnlyFans. Yeah, this has gone in an unexpected direction. I derailed it, sorry. Yeah. What were we talking about? This is the question. We've done it. Oh, Easter. That's right. Eggs. All right. Have you got your eggs yet? No, I was wondering. I said specifically in advance. Do you remember that I was coming in and I was hoping you'd give me an egg?

50:10Oh, God. Sorry. Yeah. Do you buy yourself an egg each year? No. Oh, that's very sad. Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm not giving an egg. I bought it yesterday. Oh, and what was it? It was. It was one of the big, always dairy milk, obviously. I got one of the big fruit and nut ones, which has like raisins and bits of nut baked into the egg shell. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's a fruit and nug, fruit and nug? A fruit and nut egg with little fruit and nut bars. Oh, interesting. I don't know how I feel about that. I don't feel good. Well, I've had the crunchy one, which has crunchy bits in the shell, but that's, I mean, sometimes that's a bit too sweet.

50:43How many strings have you got? Oh, no, just the one. I buy myself one massive egg each year. Okay. Because there's something delightful about eating that chocolate in an egg configuration, as long as you refrigerate it. Egg configuration. No, I'm serious. You have to put it in the fridge, because part of the fun is taking the edge and then like whacking it on the counter until you can break bits off. Yeah. I'm serious. Might be a bit of a chocolate psychopath. I was going to say. I'd like a Frere Rocher one. Really? Yeah. That has got to be the worst egg. Or the shell one. I love the shells. And you say I shouldn't.

51:14Oh. The Guillain or however you say it. Oh, okay. Yeah, another one. Guilain. I didn't say, yeah. Of course, there's Hotel Chocolat, let's not forget. Of course you'd get that. That's what you'd get. You'd get a velvetized egg, wouldn't you? I'm surprised he's not getting Fortnum & Mason. No, Hotel Chocolat are just incredible ones. they are fucking expensive though. I remember when you got House of the Dragon chocolate egg delivered to your desk. Yes. Massive, great dragon egg made of chocolate. That shell, eggshell thing was unbelievable. It was like a centimetre thick. Try and smash that, James.

51:42Yeah, can put that in the fridge. Take your axe to that. Anyway, see, that's a good, that has led to a great discussion. A great chocolate discussion. Yes, absolutely that. Okay, fantastic. Let us move on then to this week's news. And I wanted to mention a couple of things which dropped it into my inbox yesterday. First and foremost, the BBC announced a factual drama about the murder of Sarah Everard, which, I mean, obviously in retrospect, I kind of feel was inevitable, but also I'm not sure how I feel about this. Look, I do know what you mean. First of all, I think Steph will be really... Very much so.

52:20...on board with this. I know what you mean. However, crucially, it's a Jeff Pope vehicle. He's going to be doing it. And he is... And I'm, like, as I said, I am doing the, believe me, press screening Q &A. So that's another one of his stories that he's telling. But I would say he is exceptional at telling these true crime, horrific stories in a really sensitive and respectful, well-researched way. So it doesn't feel as icky as sometimes it can do or, you know, make you feel as uncomfortable. It's a story that, like, you know, as a woman, and I remember having this conversation with a lot of female, it just really sort of hit people in a different way, this story.

53:04Particularly, I don't know why, like, obviously, all murders are horrific. But I think it's an important one to be told because I think there should be awareness of the crime that was committed and the people involved because, obviously, as we know, one of them was a police officer. Yeah. I mean, weirdly, the thing that made me feel slightly better about this is the way Geoff Pope has positioned it. And he's talked about, so it feels like it's not going to be something about glamorizing, not glamorizing, that's not the word, or giving any kind of lurid glorification of the incident for anyone's entertainment.

53:37I think what it's going to look at is the institutional failings that made this possible. Because the quote that he issued around this was, Wayne Cousins should never have been a police officer, but opportunities to deny him that privilege were missed. That he was still a serving officer on the night of March the 3rd, 2021, after committing numerous sexual offenses over a long period of time, was a tragedy waiting to happen. and the key question asked by this drama. So I definitely think if you're going to approach it, that is the way to do it. And do you know what? That's the approach he's taken with Believe Me, which is about John Warboys, who was the serial rapist, the taxi cab driver, black cab driver.

54:11And actually, that's exactly the lens that has been looked through, the institutional failings of the victims by the police, how they weren't believed, hence the title, and the action that was taken against the police because of it. So yeah, that's what he's done before, and clearly he's doing again. yeah Jeff Pope is the go-to guy for writing scripts about this kind of stuff and he's got an incredible track record Little Boy Blue he did Suspect the Shooting of John Charles de Menezes A Confession etc etc you're one that he's Believe Me that's coming soon he knows what he's doing and he's always he's never I don't think he's ever put it wrong he always gets the victims families he talks to everyone that should be talked to who always gets, you know, kind of approval, if you like, from the people that, you know, need to be told what's happening.

55:04And I think it was such a shocking case that the more, but still people, the detail of it, people won't know and that's what he does. He kind of knows the details of these things and I think, I think the more you know about that case, the better and the more people, the more publicity that case gets because of just how if it was the better as well. So, and he will handle it brilliantly. So, yeah, I think it's, I think it's a no-brainer, really. Okay. What else have we got? I watched the Euphoria trailer, which came out just the other day. And it's extraordinary. It's how that show, when that show first started, people like Jacob Elordi off Wondering Heights, Zendaya to a lesser extent, Sidney Sweeney certainly was unknown.

55:54They have now become the A-list. these actors are the A-list in Hollywood right now and they're all back. Somehow they've been corralled back to take part in the third and I presume, but I don't know, final season of Euphoria, which was, remember, as well. It's about high schoolers. It's not even like college. These people are playing high school students. They're now in their 30s. And they're now in varying degrees in their 30s. They've all got baby faces. So I was fascinated by it. So this is out Monday week on Sky Atlantic and HBO Max as well, the aforementioned, and the trailer. Basically, I was like, what are they going to do about the high school setting?

56:33So basically what's happened is that they've actually left high school. They're not going to pretend they're all going their separate ways and somehow will be embroiled in a storyline. I don't know how separate it will be, but it looks like a kind of just an amazing movie about these young people getting up to all sorts with the traditional level of violence, sex, swearing, drug taking, drug trafficking, etc., that you'd expect from the show. So I'm fascinated by it. It looks spectacular from the trailer. The screen is not available yet. I had to write about it without seeing it. But it's furious.

57:10I am furious. But I'm absolutely fascinated to see how it plays out, I have to say. Now, talking of upcoming releases, have you already spoken about the date for the final series of hacks? no if not I don't think we have spoken about that well let me reveal it to you now boys tell us it is the 17th of April and apparently according to the synopsis it's in the aftermath of mistaken and unflattering news reports that she has passed away Debra Vance aka Jean Smart and Ava returned to Las Vegas more determined than ever to secure Debra's legacy as a comedian exciting yeah can't wait very exciting and that seems very soon you know back in the Remember when we were waiting like 18 months for the show to arrive at all?

57:55True. In the UK now, it's starting in two weeks' time. It's like news. Very exciting. We mentioned obviously one true crime thing. There is an Epstein TV show in development. Have you seen this with Laura Dern in it? Yeah. So this is based... Inevitable. Yes. Based on the book Justice, the Jeffrey Epstein story by Julie Kay Brown. And Dern is starring as Brown herself, who's a Miami Herald reporter who was investigating Epstein's crimes and helped shine a light and all of that stuff. So that's another fun watch to look forward to. Yeah, I mean, it's bound to happen, isn't it? I mean, I'm sure there'll be more Epstein-based dramas and stuff.

58:36I tell you what I should have mentioned in the listener question slot of what we're going to be watching at least a weekend. I tell you what does come out on Good Friday. Tell me. Is, are the Lost Doctor Who episodes... Did you know about this? Yes, I have heard of them. There are two episodes. And then they turn up in someone's loft or something. Yeah, incredible story. And they're not only just any episodes of Doctor Who, they're from in the 1960s, and they're from a Dalek-based storyline. So you kind of see really early Dalek-based Doctor Who action. And I can't wait to see these. It's absolutely fascinating.

59:10So they arrive on both episodes, The Nightmare Begins and Devil's Planet, from the third series entitled The Dalek's Master Plan, written by Terry Nation, who is the legendary Doctor Who writer, starring William Hartnett. So he was the first Doctor. Peter Purvis, as his companion, Peter Purvis of Blue Peter fame. It's going to be fascinating watching it. So absolutely cannot wait. A resurrection of those Doctor Who episodes on Good Friday. Perfect. Exactly. Okay. Well done. Nicola Walker news. Who doesn't want that? Who doesn't want that? So apparently there's going to be a brand new Hulu original series.

59:44Hulu? Hulu. airing on Disney Plus during the summer and she will play Alice who is devastated when her best friend Steve starts dating her 26-year-old daughter Izzy. You can imagine that's a conundrum. And she's going to lose her best friend and her daughter in one fell swoop so she tries to do everything she can to end that relationship. But unfortunately for her, Steve's more than ready for the attack and what begins as a perfect friendship devolves into an all-out feud. So Steve's going to be played by Jermaine Clement and her daughter will be played by Yali Topol Margolis. So I'm excited for that.

1:00:19Good. Yeah. Good line-up. Good line-up. Did either of you see the trailer for Cape Fear? The new Apple TV, Cape Fear. With Javier Bardem looking terrifying. Yeah, no, but I did see the trailer for that when they ran it in Santa Monica in a massive event that Apple TV put on. Sound the bellend. Yeah. I mean, can I just make a comment about that trailer? Yes. It feels like it's been cut together by AI. oh don't say that like genuinely it's just what have the humans done that that's awesome I mean yes apologies if you were the one who edited that trailer but it's very too late now discordant and chaotic in its edits and I found it maybe it's intentional maybe it is maybe it is discombobulating deliberately that could be the reason or it could be that they said dear chat GBT please make us a trailer for K-Fear to be fair of all the streamers to do that I don't think it's going to be Apple I'm just saying I'm just saying I found the edits in it quite All right, James has notes.

1:01:15I have notes. I have notes on the trailer for Cape Fear. We could note, but the editor might be our friend who edits Slow Horses. Robert Frost. Robert Frost was an Apple show. Who left us that lovely review poem. Yes, he did. He's a legend. I do not believe Robert Frost would have done that show. I think it's deliberate. I think it's deliberate. I think from memory, they showed the trailer and the clip as well as having an on-stage chat about Cape Fear. It was the show that I came away because they publicised about, 20 shows upcoming films but that was the one that really hit home for me I thought it looked fantastic so did you get that impression apart from being annoyed by the edits?

1:01:51I mean that was my main takeaway He was unable to absorb the content he was just so irritated by the look of it It was so chaotic Oh okay It does look good though and Javier Bardem is genuinely terrifying Yeah absolutely Yes Good stuff Okay What else we got? Did you see there was I mean you will not care about this but some drone footage surfaced from the third season of The Last of Us which showed Caitlin Diva as Abby on a rooftop with, crucially, Kiriana Crater as Lev. It's a very important new character. Who's Lev? I can't tell you because it would be a spoiler. And obviously, you love the show.

1:02:24Please, can I get points for showing interest? Thank you, Kay. Because I did enjoy it when we watched it and then I had to stop because it caught, yeah. Although, crucially, this drone footage was on a rooftop. And not a corridor. And not in a corridor. Right, so Boyd is back on board. They've learned their lesson. They've learned their lesson. They know too many corridors. See, that's the thing. when Boyd gives notes, people listen. And also, spoiler for season three of The Last of Us, there are a lot of rooftops in it. A lot of rooftops. It's very roof-based. It's the rooftop season. Yes, it is.

1:02:50Is there some roof-based tax system going on? What's going on? Yeah, but very few corridors. As I said, they know. They know. They know where they've got wrong. It was too dark. It was too dark. Now they've gone into the light. Another thing came up. Matthew Lillard did an interview and said that he came within a baseball bat's breadth of playing Negan in The Walking Dead. can you imagine that's mad Matthew Lillard as Negan no neither can I at all that blew my mind that that bit of casting can you imagine there's another world there's an alternate universe out there Quentin Tamteno would have been furious he thinks he's lame one of the many outrageous things that Quentin has said recently old QT would not have been amused but Jeffrey D Morgan is so iconic as that character that is interesting totally different energy Fantastic.

1:03:40Yeah, all right, brilliant. Brilliant. And I think that's all the news I have for you. Absolutely. Done and dusted. We're done with news. So let's move on to the next interview. The next interview, and our next guests are Dr. Robbie and Nurse Dana themselves, Noah Wiley and Catherine Lanessa, the beating hearts of the pit. So I was cock-a-hooped to chat with these two about the show, which you can, of course, watch now on HBO Max. this is a general pitch chat but we do talk about a couple of little plot points that come out in season one so if you don't want to know anything at all about the show then do bear that in mind I'm not sure I'd call it a massive spoiler but it is a memorable a very high pitch spoiler that shows he's nervous yeah but it's a memorable moment from about halfway-ish slightly after that through the first season so you know proceed at your own caution with that caveat out of the way here is me shooting the shit with the stars of the pit.

1:04:37Wow, what day for intros. Do you know what? What day for intros. I was literally about to say, just point to no poem. Incredible. Well, guys, welcome to the show, and thank you very much for doing this. Thank you for having us. I love that you guys are doing press together, because I feel like... We haven't really done a lot of this. I know. Really? Because I feel like Robbie and Dana's relationship is the bedrock of this entire show. I'm glad to do press with Noah, because he is such a good public speaker. I, on the other hand, And, yeah, I had to learn to slow down because I was reading some stuff I said in print, and I'm like, this is grammatically incorrect.

1:05:11I just said completely uneducated. Yeah. Well, there was a screening last night, wasn't there? And I heard there were a lot of NHS people. Yeah, there were. Yeah, it was a seated crowd. Did you get to speak to them afterwards? Did you find that? Very little, very little. They whisked me out of there kind of quickly, but I would have loved to have hung around and heard their impressions of the show. Yeah, because obviously we have different problems here, But that's not to say the NHS is without its difficulties. It's a difficult profession, I think, across the board, right? Oh, incredibly so. I remember 30 years ago coming on a press tour for ER and talking about the similarities and the differences in the healthcare systems back then.

1:05:45And that show was incredibly popular here because the themes are universal. Patients are patients. Everybody can relate to being stressed or overburdened, underappreciated, underpaid. These are ubiquitous human experiences. Yeah. And one thing I really liked about the show was it it kind of centers the nurses like you get a sense for What nurses actually do and the expertise that they bring to this whereas a lot of dramatized shows They feel a bit more like assistance to doctors Was that was that something you'd literally set out to do? Yes Intentionally so well wait it was supposed to be the most medically accurate show that we've had on television You can't be medically accurate without talking about what Harris is doing in this environment because they do most of the work They do all the palliative care.

1:06:31They do all the administering of medications. They do all the dirty work of the cleaning and the wiping. And they do all the hand-holding, all the really kind of spiritual angel work as well. And my mother is a nurse, and it was clear to me that it was an unheralded profession in most medical shows. ER was an exception to that, but usually the nurse is the one in the romantic relationship with the doctor. she's not the one that's doing the hero duty on the floor like dana yes dana is awesome by the way thank you uh we're uh behind here in the uk we have to wait a year for this which has been insane and i'm sure you've heard a number of people have done what i did where we're like we're taking a flight i'm gonna watch all 15 hours of this to the u.s about which i literally did wow it was my trip to orlando and yeah i did the whole of season one uh to and from orlando wow intense that's a hell of a flight it was very intense it's a white knuckle flight yeah but do you know what i really think it lends itself to it like don't get me wrong it's a it's an anxiety attack waiting to happen but but there's something about how propulsive it is in the real time element of it that you just lock in and i feel like you live that shift and by the end of it oh my god i'm gonna die so that's two viewings seven episodes so i guess i couldn't get through the whole thing on the flight out yeah so i had to top up and finish it on the way back wow that's intense as much of a binge as i've heard yet my hba luckily just gave me season two so i was able to just do that there you go yes yes also savor it savor it i did there is a scene in season two i was going to say where you are dealing with a sexual assault survivor which i thought was phenomenal just the performance and the the sort of emotional nuance to that scene was just wonderful but what i found interesting about this show is you deal with a lot of the kind of uh medical issues right so you know insurance underfunding you know under resourcing bureaucracy all that stuff but it feels like it's very much a lens on american culture in toto you know whether it be immigration whether it be the way you know police do or do not deal properly with sexual assault survivors and i wondered like what you guys thought of that because you never sound preachy there's a subtlety to the way it's told i don't know that you have to spell out an opinion about it you just present it it is what it is right this is a terrific anti-warhol quotation art is getting away with it you know so we don't want to turn anybody out you know we don't want to turn anybody off uh and the easiest way to do that is to come at it from a preachy or prostatizing place we there's a term that we throw around the writer's room a lot be careful of performative progressivism.

1:09:11You know, the feeling that you need to depict somebody in a certain way because they're a marginalized person, or you can't depict somebody else in a certain way because of who they are. And this idea that you have to be so precious and not present people as multifaceted or flawed is a trend that we're sort of very conscious of not falling into and just presenting people as human. sometimes petty sometimes heroic you know sometimes unaware of their own need for help which is certainly the case with robbie yeah because both of your characters it feels like they were under pressure in season one and season two it feels like rather than dealing with their issues like it's a breaking point right yeah i described the thesis of season one is the doctor is the patient and season two doctors don't make good patients or nurses in fact or nurses i like that they gave her some interesting choices you know I thought it was interesting that she doesn't press charges you know against Doug Driscoll and then now she's dealing with an assault victim that she really hopes will press charges and also at the same time being completely hyper vigilant against any violence probably because not really properly dealing with what happened to her and I like that it's just so messy it's messy it feels more real that way it's also nice to show progression of world view You know, somebody who in season one, Dr.

1:10:39McKay is accused of perhaps having a bias against a patient who's overweight. And in season two, she applies that same lesson to another character who is exhibiting similar behavior. And in that, you get to see, oh, that's a lesson learned. That's wisdom attained. That's perspective broadened. And when you see that on TV, I think it does have a kind of unifying and empathetic effect. Yeah. Dana learned she's not going to take any shit. No, she really doesn't. That's all I learned. But that scene that you mentioned from season one, the assault scene, is so shocking. Like, it's really, it's very powerful stuff.

1:11:14What was that like to shoot? Well, it was really cool. I mean, Noah wrote that episode, and it was like the first kind of breath that we really had to the character of Dana. So we'd really gotten to see Dana. It was very, very fun. Breaking up the fight in the emergency room, you know, being funny with the dog. It was just, there was a lot. he showed Dana doing a lot of different things and so I think the audience was sort of gaining greater compassion and connection to Dana in that episode so then for her to be hit was crazy. You establish her as a bearing wall in that environment and then you knock it down.

1:11:47Yeah, so I think yeah, I don't, that wasn't so hard because that's just a thing, right? You know, that's just the punch is, but it's the reeling, it's like after the punch, that's where all the, like, that's where all the stuff is harder to play, like Like, what am I dealing with? And it felt like I was playing an existential crisis for a few weeks, months there. And I was very happy in a way when we got into the mass casualty just because I was happy to go back into being more part of the skeleton. And it was super fun to get to breathe into the character that way. But it was really hard because she's so shattered from it.

1:12:27Because she's like the queen there. I don't think she ever thought something like that would happen to her, that she would be disrespected in that way, you know, in a place that she served her whole life. It was very heartbreaking. It's challenging from a performance standpoint. We lock ourselves into that soundstage 14 hours a day for nine months. And it's sometimes easier to stay in the emotional life that we're pretending to be than it is to come out and try and pretend to be normal. and so as the season progresses that aggregate effect of all those hours that you've already played have to be present at every moment that you're playing so you tend to be you get tunnel vision by the end there.

1:13:06I mean that particular scene I think because it comes out of nowhere as the viewer it's incredibly shocking surprising it reminds me of and I'm still traumatized by the scene where Mark Green gets jumped in the toilet that messed me up so much because you don't see it coming absolutely extreme violence out of nowhere And I think that's the effect of it. And all too prevalent, you know. Assaults against healthcare workers is a curve that's going almost vertical at the moment. And it's a byproduct of wait times. It's a byproduct of a lot of things. But it's a federal crime to assault a bus driver or an airline pilot.

1:13:41And yet there are very few ramifications for assaulting a healthcare worker. But you deal with so much stuff in this. There's an ice sequence in season two. Which I thought was very topical at the moment. Was that something that you kicked around? Should we include that? How are we going to deal with that? It's obviously a very polarizing issue. Once it became clear that the concept of sanctuary spaces was no longer applicable, once churches, schools, and hospitals became open ground, it seemed irresponsible not to touch on it in some fashion. how we dealt with it and we shot a rather graphic version of what we ended up putting on the air and then we toned it down a little bit which was an interesting conversation about how much or how little to depict ironically all of it was shot and cut a month before what happened in Minneapolis with Renee Good and Alex Pretty so the world gave context to the storyline in a way that we didn't have to so suddenly it seemed more appropriate just to show the bear and not poke the bear the bear and all of its capabilities is well known yeah and one of the things that when we talk about the show we describe it as his competence porn yeah but there's just something incredible competence porn stars yeah that's exactly what i was going to say but it's a Mature competence porn.

1:15:01A veteran. Mature competence porn. Been around a long time. It's a whole new niche. But right, like watching incredibly competent people do their thing is incredibly cathartic. I had a friend whose mother fell and he had to take her to the hospital. And, you know, the whole reason why she fell, the whole thing was very upsetting for him. And he called and we're on the phone for a little while. And I couldn't, I couldn't, my husband and I were both on the phone. I think we couldn't really quite tell what he needed or like, you know, we were talking to him, but it felt like something was missing.

1:15:35And he said, you know, because I just want Dana to come over. He said, I just want Dana. Like, can I just have Dana? You know, it's kind of sad. But yeah, it's like, you know, you want that. I think the pit makes people feel like they're you know that people care about other people and the people put themselves on the line to take care of one another yeah you know showing the best side of of people in that way I think it's uh it's comforting it is comforting it's also as I say it has a velocity to it and the real-time format but it feels like much like a lot of John Wells shows ER the West Wing it's always in motion like this walk and talk energy to it that goes through and you feel at the end of it because I feel like you've been in the trenches with these people for 15 hours, that you know these characters so well.

1:16:20But in reality, we actually don't know almost anything about Robbie and Dana. And I think that is an incredible thing for a show to do, to make you feel like you have this sort of parasocial relationship with these people, but you know nothing about them. That's a bigger theme in season two, is that we all wear a professional mask at work and present to the world the person that we want the world to see that is sometimes in direct opposition to how we feel about ourselves. And as events unfold, that mask begins to slip for all of our characters. And it's sort of revealing how little we really show the people that we work with how we feel and who we are.

1:16:55That becomes a big theme. I think you describe it in season two, isn't it? It's like a force field, isn't it? And you can't let your personal life come into your... Vocationally, you have to compartmentalize. You can't survive otherwise. But that compartmentalization is an unhealthy thing over the long term because, you know, undealt with trauma becomes disease, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a compassionate, like, separation, compassionate distance you have to have in order to keep moving. I learned that when I went to the ER when I was shadowing, that, you know, what would be appropriate for you or I to respond to an accident would be completely inappropriate for an emergency department worker.

1:17:37They have to kind of... Don't take it in, don't take it on. Yeah. But also be attuned to the patient's needs and that they're going through something. Yeah. You know, that they're going through something, life or death. Every person that comes in there is in trauma, you know. Actors just want to make it about themselves. Yeah, they do. Well, it is a fantastic show. I cannot wait for season three. I've just finished it. I'm bereft, Matt. I can't wait for season three. Have you, where are you in production? No, we're nowhere. We're writing it. We're throwing spaghetti on the wall. Starting in June.

1:18:06I'm seeing it sticks. Starting soon. exciting stuff. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. That was Noah Wiley and Catherine Lanasa and time now for this week's reviews and we begin with The Testaments which is Margaret Atwood's book of the same name or adaptation of her book of the same name which is her sequel to The Handmaid's Tale. Picks up some years after the events of that show's finale though less time I believe than the books and this is Chase Infinity as Agnes and she's a commander's daughter and an elite Gilead school for young women who is tasked by the terrifying Aunt Lydia played again by the excellent and out.

1:18:39We're looking after Daisy, who is a Canadian immigrant to Gilead, who enjoys, shall we say, special status at the school. Boydie, what is your testament to this? Well, this is funny enough, the first thing that struck me about this is that we should have asked Elizabeth Moss about it when she was our friend. Did you not? No, we asked her a little, Kay, we had a lot to talk about. We did. You know, we talked about almost everything. I heard it was a cracking interview. Thank you. That's all down to James. I heard it from Boyd. Yeah. Boy told me it was a crackling. We ran the gamut. We talked about Lettuce, but we did not talk about The Testament, which is very much a sequel to The Hammaid's Tale, which she ended up exec producing.

1:19:19She is. She's involved in it. And she's the exec producer of this show. That's what we know about her involvement in it. But we should have asked her about it, definitely. Anyway, it is, as James pointed out, it's vague about how soon after The Hammaid's Tale takes place. It deliberately is up. deliberately vague, which is fine. And they're not calling it a sequel either. It's described in the official press release as an evolution of, or a narrative continuation of, The Handmaid's Tale. But there's a reason why they've done that, right? Yes. Yeah. What is the reason? Because it's a thematic, let's just say it's a tonally different show.

1:19:57Yeah. But it continues on directly after it from a narrative point of view. Go on. It's not misery porn. Oh, right. I was going to say, because for anyone who hasn't, maybe, yeah. I mean, it is quite miserable, but it's not as... It starts out quite very visually very different. It's brightly lit. They're all in this kind of very white as in the paint not the actual people. Hashtag testament so white. Not their ethnicity. The whole setting is brighter more colourful more vivid where the visuals of the handmaid so all the way through really were very intense and kind of stylised and kind of reflecting the frankly the misery of the world it was depicting.

1:20:37this is much kind of sunnier literally and has a kind of a slightly happier less intense vibe but it's basically focusing on the burgeoning friendship between two of the teenagers played by Jason Finity from One Battle After Another who's absolutely brilliant in that film and he's fantastic in this and Lucy Halliday as Daisy who's like she's an outsider coming into this world and she's not really prepared for what it really means It's like the full implications of... She's a pearl, is she? Yes. Yeah. Which are people from outside of Gilead who have essentially been converted and recruited to join Gilead.

1:21:14Yeah, exactly. And then we meet, early on we meet Aunt Lydia, who's running this particular... She's still around. Still around, still terrifying, brilliantly played by Handel. As I did read Elizabeth Moss talking about how she's one of the greatest actresses she's ever worked with. Oh, wow. That is true. So to start with, it does feel like a literally visually sunnier, possibly less trying, less challenging, as the Handmaid Sale often was in its depiction of horrible stuff. And yet, there is a scene that will not spoil, I would say, oh my God, it is back on the fucking stress, and it is stomach churning, and it is really distressing, it's really intense.

1:21:59So you're like, okay, I think they lulled us into a forced sense of security, and you get hints obviously the mother in quotes of Chase Infinity's character. Her stepmother. Her stepmother is a nasty, horrible woman. Nasty piece of work. Nasty piece of work. And it's like one of the many horrible people you've met. A technical term nasty bastard. Nasty bastard, yeah. I was going to use the other B word, but that would be sexist, a sexist epithet. I won't do that. I'm falling into that trap, Kay. Not when you're discussing a out-and-out feminist piece as this is. so what in the end because I remember Jane was talking about a lot about how you stopped watching The Handmaid's Tale because it was too distressing and I stopped watching it and then I did catch up with the final season eventually after interviewing Elizabeth Moss the first time I can drop that name without bungling it like I just did but you know what struck me is with that horrendous scene which happens in this first episode warning if you're of a nervous disposition don't watch it because it is distressing is people love this stuff.

1:23:08It's a simple like Handmaid's Tale went on for season after season after season and on one level it was quite repetitive. I mean you know it was dealing with how can the characters rebel from Gilead and how can you endure the miseries the tortures often in that world. But I think people really I'm not saying get a kick out of it. That's sounding like I'm judging it. I think there's catharsis to it. I think there's catharsis, yeah. And I think people... This has got a very political edge to it, and I won't... Because James will just cut it out, whatever I say. You know how James likes to censor you?

1:23:45I do. I do. It's like Gilead in here, isn't it? We're our own fucking Gilead, right? And you are Aunt Lydia. Oh my God, his new name, Aunt Lydia. I'm absolutely here for it. But I... And I'm not excusing myself from this. I think I find it cathartic as well. Because I will carry on watching this. I thought it was really well done this first episode. And that scene is shocking and a nightmare and disturbing. What's interesting is you're watching the reactions by the girls, the teenage girls who are watching this thing happening. Which is kind of almost as horrifying as the act itself. Yeah, because some of them are fine with it.

1:24:16Some of them are yelling to enthusing about it, encouraging about it. Obviously, part of the whole idea is they've been brainwashed by the whole idea of Gilead. all the people who created Gilead have brainwashed people to think this is the way forward, this is what they should be doing, this extreme version of religious Christianity or whatever. But it is horrifying, absolutely horrifying sequence that made, and I think the first episode was made by that, like that is what makes it so powerful. And there's a whole, we have an ongoing discussion about whether we should even talk about spoiling things that happened, so I won't, But it's going to be much more interesting, I think, this series than you might think, just from the bald idea, so to speak, that it's a sequel to The Handmaid's Tale.

1:25:03And also the relationship between those two main characters. I think that's where the intrigue really lies. Yes, because you're in this situation where... Because they both put on sort of veneers, are they veneers, of piety and conformity. And it's the question of how much do you let your guard down and trust the other person? can you let your guard down and trust the other person? Which I think is quite interesting. I think this is a more direct coming-of-age story, and I think it's probably... Because The Handmaid's Tale, like, spoiler for The Handmaid's Tale, but it does, I mean, obviously finish with Gilead still a thing.

1:25:36And I think this is the sort of more of the revolutionary conclusion. I don't know how this ends. I've never read The Testaments. But I think the idea of this is this is going to drive forward a more directly revolutionary storyline, rather than wallowing in the abject misery of being in Gilead. Yeah, well, that may still end with a certain amount of triumph for the people trying to overthrow Gilead. But it's too vast. They control the United States. So there are certain states that they managed to rebel against successfully, but it's still very much going in the rest of the country. So enough triumph to satisfy the audience.

1:26:13Yeah, exactly. the personal triumph if you like of Elizabeth Nott's character whose name I keep forgetting June thank you yeah that spoiler that's one thing but absolutely still going on as this as this new series reflects what did you think Kay? so I started watching The Handmaid's Tale when it was first out and then instantly The Handmaid's Tale The Handmaid's Tale The Handmaid's Tale that's a different show altogether I started watching that and then I changed to this show yeah but yeah I stopped very very quickly because it was too much for me and so I like was coming in completely new to this and I would say that if you are the same and you decide to watch this you will pick it up you know like it's it's it can stand alone I think oh yeah yeah story and yeah I disagree with everything you say I think it's I won't be watching anymore for the reasons outlined but it is very powerful storytelling and impactful and I think central to it those two characters of Agnes and Daisy.

1:27:17They're a real draw because it's interesting to see, as you say, it's kind of this kind of cat and mouse of like, you know, are we both being authentic and genuine about our beliefs in this regime and this awful ideology or are we just playing at it? And yeah, I think that's interesting. So I say definitely if you're a fan, you're going to love this and even if you're not, it's worth watching. and other than that I just say I hope you have a blessed afternoon yes blessed day blessed day blessed day they sometimes say blessed morning as well yes blessed morning may the Lord open yeah it's quite deeply sinister here's the thing that I read that part of the book The Testaments is from Aunt Lydia's perspective oh so I don't know if that is true because I've not read the book but I thought if that transplants to this show that would be very interesting well one of the things they did make her more they did kind of make her even more of a three dimensional character with different aspects to her towards the latter end of The Handmaid's Tale.

1:28:15So I think that makes sense. I can see that working. James, you're right. The novel is set 15 years after the events and it's narrated by Aunt Lydia. There we go. Fact check, correct. Fact check, correct. My personal role model, Aunt Lydia. That's how I run this podcast, what can I tell you? Right, The Testaments then, Boydie. Disney Plus, when? Wednesday, the 8th of April, 2026. Next up is 2026. It's an actual 2026, which you've already heard about, of course, which sees Hugh Bonneville as Ian Fletcher and Hugh Skinner as Will Humphries, along with narration, not by Aunt Lydia, but by David Tennant.

1:28:52And this is a mockumentary that sees Bonneville's character back for more after handling the Olympics in 2012, now turning his eye to the impending World Cup. Kay, you are not, unlike Boyd, in the pocket of Big Hugh. Sue, tell us, Sue? Sue, tell us. Sue, tell us. Sue, tell us what you made of this one. Do you know what? in the lead up to this I decided to re-watch W1A and I can highly recommend everyone does that because it is fantastic and will get you in the mood for this so Ian Fletcher Hugh Bonneville's character is once again central to this and he's now the Director of Integrity It's funny even just saying that another preposterous title in Miami and he's part of the 2026 oversight team for the Soccer World Cup which is being co-hosted well I love this It's been co-hosted by US in competition with Canada and Mexico.

1:29:44And this first episode is basically, it's Ian's first day. So he arrives in Miami and he is finding his feet as the new boy. And he's surrounded by as moronic a team as he was in W1A, which is, I'm very relieved because I love those characters so much. And he had such a great chemistry. And I have to say, these new colleagues of his do as well. And they all have equally preposterous titles. they're all VPs of ridiculous things I mean logistics and execution there's a woman my particular favourite actually is Gabriela De La Rosa who is the VP of narrative and she they're trying to shortlist they've got the semi-finals coming up they need two venues they've got a shortlist of three they can't decide and she decides to add Guadalajara onto the list even though it's not and she's really fighting for it so it's back to that thing of like a disjointed team they're all at each other's you know they're all in at odds with each other and disagreeing.

1:30:42And it's down to him to try and calm things down, not always successfully. So I just think it's as good as it's ever been. And I'd highly, yeah, just watch it. It's so funny. And I just think he's got such a skill, Morton, that he is able to write this just cracking dialogue. My favourite parts are when it's all of them in a group just bouncing off each other, just saying one word. It's like, it's so... The meetings, yeah. Well executed, like an orchestra of just a cacophony of, as I say, morons. I love it. Oh, I'm glad, yeah, absolutely. I think John Morton is one of the most underrated and finest comedy minds of our generation going back to, he did People Like Us was one of the first things he did, which was a brilliant mockumentary series.

1:31:30And then he did Broken News, which was a really underrated thing, which was like, he had like flicking around between on cable, cable to all different news channels, a news channel, like an entertainment channel. And it was amazing. And as you say, 2012, and then WA, which was a sequel to 2012, really. So Hugh Bonneville's character, Ian Fletcher, and Hugh Skinner's character, we first met them in W1A. And it's just, you know, people like Olivia Colman was in it. And, you know, it was, there's something about... Jonathan Bailey. Jonathan Bailey, Johnny Bailey. Who was kind of like a little bit of a bully when it comes to Will's character, but, you know, not to an extreme way, but it was a great moment when lovely Will kind of managed to have some kind of success.

1:32:15And he was like going to be, I mentioned this, I think, in the interview, like he had some kind of promotion to actually some kind of producer's role. Now he's back just being basically Ian Fletcher's assistant, giving him coffee, bringing him coffee. Now, what I love about, I think John Morton is, he will use anything to get a laugh. so there's verbal jokes loads and loads of brilliant verbal jokes puns, slapstick there's a scene where one of the brilliant running jokes is that there's one of the executive assistants to the main guy who's trying to run the World Cup is pissed off that Will arrives as another executive assistant and his executive assistant to Bonneville's character, to Ian Fletcher and so Hugh Bonneville is slightly askance that all this woman seems to do her job seems to be to make coffee and bring in coffee for her boss so there's a brilliant scene where Hugh Skinner brings in coffee for for Hugh Bonneville and it's so tense because you think some awful slapstick thing's gonna happen he's gonna spill it he's gonna throw it over someone but he but spoiler alert he doesn't it just carries on being a really funny observation um there's stuff pertaining to but you don't have to be even vaguely interested in football by the way the setting of um preparing for the world cup there's a funny running joke about that.

1:33:31They can't say FIFA in the show. That's the best thing in it. Which, by the way, is probably factually true. They probably wouldn't be allowed to say FIFA. Well, because they're depicting people working for FIFA. So, the way around, you know, there's all kinds of, I'm sure there's loads of issues. FIFA is one of the most ridiculous bureaucracies on planet Earth. So they bleep out every use of the word FIFA. And it never stops being funny. It's hilarious. So, I just think there's so many ways in which this show is hilarious. I love the characters I love the two Hughes performances Hughes Skinner is so adorable and he's got his headphones in he's like oh crap everything's oh crap okay cool and they bounce off each other brilliant and Hugh Bonneville is just fantastic he's just kind of this guy he is actually kind of I think he's actually grown a bit in the sense that actually he does come up with quite good solutions to things that eventually he will push through and he's always done that kind of almost by accident in a way whereas now I think he kind of knows what he's doing a bit more than everyone else that he's dealing with.

1:34:30So he's, as you say, he's surrounded by utter doofuses and he somehow manages to achieve stuff. It's all about, the whole thing is all about your bureaucracy and how you achieve stuff. But, as I say, you don't even be slightly interested in the World Cup or anything like that. That's just the setting for meetings after meetings in which these hilarious characters talk absolute nonsense at each other and barely achieve anything. And it's absolutely fucking hilarious from start to finish. I love it so much. I'm so pleased that they come back this gang with this show. Do you know what I read? That it takes him two and a half years.

1:35:04Yes. It takes a long time. He puts so much into this. It's so dense. Particularly the verbal jokes and all of that and the timing of them and everything. And it's completely unimprovised. Everyone has to learn. Hugh Bonhoeffer talks in the chat about how he had to learn every single comma and dot perfectly. It's such a precision performance, right? Exactly. James is going to hate it. No, I didn't hate it at all. It's not 100 % my type of thing, being a kind of workplace mockumentary. Viserable twat. That too. But, I mean, it's extremely well done. And even if I don't understand the footballness of it, I do understand the absolute absurdity around FIFA and the way they operate.

1:35:47I'm at least peripherally familiar with that. And also, Hugh Bonneville sells it so well. He's just so brilliantly deadpan funny. Yeah, it's delightful. It's very well written, but you can tell it isn't improvised as well. There's a precision to the way the dialogue sort of unspools, where you're just like, this is absolutely polished within an inch of its life. I just think anyone who's ever worked in an office will be able to relate in some way to this. That's the thing. The football aside. It captures the modern day meeting. Oh my God. Meetings about meetings. We've all been there. Yep. Oh my God.

1:36:20Lanyards and things like that. The jargon that everyone has, the one-upmanship they're trying to do. So it's just, it's brilliant. It's perfect. It's very, very well observed. Next stop, doing one mockumentary about Pilot. Yeah, that's it. Just call it the podcast. Exactly. Okay, yeah. Yeah, cool. Oh, crap. I particularly, I would say my favorite part of this were Erin Kellerman's sections as they're kind of like the social media team. Yeah. Oh, yeah, hilarious. And the messaging of how they're going to sort of phrase a particular aspect of it, shall we say, without ruining it. But genuinely very funny.

1:36:56And they try and film some footage for the socials as well, which is just absolutely fantastic. Kind of the Lucy Hines, you know, that kind of PR role. Yeah, very much so, yeah. Very funny. 2026 then, which airs in 2026. Wednesday, BBC Two, 10 o 'clock, 2026. Me. 2026. Now you know why I say that. I do, yes. It was all building up to this. Yeah. Boyd, he has reached his final form. finally this week we have the Copenhagen Test which stars Simu Liu as an intelligence agent who dreams of being promoted to the orphanage which is a covert internal affairs oversight division that keeps all other American intelligence agencies in check except it isn't quite that simple so let's find out if this show passed the Hilton Test this is interesting it's a Peacock production Peacock in brackets by the way seems to basically anyone seems to be able to acquire a Peacock show there's no seems to be no rhyme or reason this is on channel 4 which is quite unusual oh I thought you meant anyone could get a show on Peacock I was like no no no absolutely not anyone can put anything on Peacock we can test that with the sitcom set in a podcast yeah the podcast Peacock I'll write it I'm available but it's weird so they don't seem to have any particular affiliation with any other channel so lots of different Sky shows Peacock stuff and now Channel 4 has acquired this one.

1:38:24They're putting it on prime time, which is quite unusual for Channel 4 on an American show. Wednesday, 10 o 'clock. And I remember when I said we should prove this, I described it as a science fiction thing. Actually, I don't even know where I got that from. I think someone must have described it somewhere. But for the first to start with, it feels like it's a pure espionage show. And there's this opening where Simu Liu's character, he's a US Special Forces sniper. who is in Belarusia, Belarus, and he's faced with a choice. He's on his earphones where he's being told what to do by his superiors.

1:39:01He's told that he has to save an American. If there's an American in the people he comes across, there's only one place on the helicopter left to take them out of the Belarus. And so it's either this American woman or a young Belarusian boy. And the implication is he's picked the Belarusian boy over the American woman, although it's kind of like slightly left mysterious. And that leads to, three years later, the fact that he then ends up working as an operative for the orphanage, this secret oversight agency, which is like the ultimate AC-12. It's like the equivalent of In Line of Duty, people investigating other people, internal affairs and corruption within the system.

1:39:38But like all government agencies are supposed to be being monitored by the guys in this particular floor, if you like, of the building. But then you think, oh, who's monitoring the people who are monitoring? the people good question who are monitoring the people and it's kind of it ends up being quite complicated I'm so happy you said that yeah it's quite dense yeah it's quite dense there's loads I didn't say I was being dense I'm happy that you think it's the show you get to it's also you get to the end it's a proper full hour of TV by the way no presumably because it's on Peacock is streaming so MEC streaming service so it's not like ad breaks or anything it's just it's quite a hefty I remember halfway I was thinking is this still going how much longer have we got there's another 35 minutes to go.

1:40:20I would say it's too slow. It takes too long to get to the point where we need to get to explain what is happening with him. Because then it does get a bit science fiction-y. Which makes it more interesting. And up until that point, I was thinking, it's almost like a butterfly, to use the all-round description of a genre piece that isn't particularly different or unusual or clever or special. going back to our live podcast with Russell T. Davis. And I was thinking, this is butterflying it. It's not original. There's nothing. And then it gets to the thing, the kind of twist at the end, which is, you know, which is more interesting, I think, but not so interesting that it's going to entice me to sit through more really slowly unfolding storylines and too many characters and too many complications about who's following who and who's corruptly not following who and what are we going to see and hear that they don't know we're seeing and hearing.

1:41:15I just found it too dense in all kinds of ways to deal with. The first episode, I think, in particular, has an awful lot of ground to cover. Yeah. And I think once you get into episode two, it's more coherent. So it's eight episodes long. It's an eight-hour show. It's not short. And suddenly the reviews have been mixed. It's aired in the States a little while ago on Peacock. I wasn't sure what this was because I didn't read up on it beforehand. so the sci-fi edge I wasn't really expecting until it arrived I like Simu Liu a lot and I thought he plays this kind of I guess low level analyst with aspirations very very well although when we first see him he's on a you know it's a military operation and Melissa Barrera who plays a bartender is also I think good for I think they've got great chemistry together so I actually quite like it and I really I got to the end of this first episode and I was like oh shit I really want to know what happens now So I think I'm going to have to watch more of this to see how it goes.

1:42:15I don't know if I'll make it through all eight. We'll have to wait and see. But I certainly like the idea of it. A lot of it would depend on how it's structured. Because it is streaming and it is 8-par, I'm hoping it has a more overt destination in mind because this is the kind of series with a few tweaks you could easily see as being kind of a noughties network show whereby, without giving it away, the general setup plays out, but it kind of stretches out ad infinitum as they come up with a new thing every week in a kind of alias style-y. I would really, really appreciate it if that didn't happen and it felt like it had a more distinct arc.

1:42:48I feel like you should have given these notes before it was made. Yes. Well, this may be what they've done. Maybe they've got my notes from the future. Who knows? Maybe they've hacked your brain. Perhaps they have hacked my brain. But if that has happened, then I'm on board. But I'm going to give it a couple of episodes and see. Do you know what? I'm like you. I really want to know what happens next. I don't have the time to find out so I'm going to need you to do that for me. So I'll watch it and then let you know what happens. When it first started, and, you know, as you say, he's in the field and he has this option, you know, of these two different people he could save.

1:43:18I was just like, why don't you just put the kid on the woman's lap? Yeah. Right? I had exactly said that. I thought, this isn't rocket science. You put the woman in the chopper and you carry the kid. How hard is that? I was like, it's not quite the conundrum you think it is. But anyway, so at that stage, I was like, I think this is going to be a bit rubbish. But then, James, you'll be happy to know, as soon as I heard that, you know, the sci-fi twist, So I was like, oh, actually, this is quite interesting. And actually, that's what got me on board. And I was like, oh, okay, because... It didn't ignite your visceral hatred of all things sci-fi and make you want to burn the show to the ground.

1:43:48Just tell you why. It's not foundation. No, but I just thought it was like the whole thing of how he goes on, you know, what happens, which I won't reveal, but like how he can prove he's not in on it and like the whole thing of who he can trust and what he can do about it. that to me is just so intriguing and compelling once I actually figure out what the fuck was going on. Because it is, I thought it was just me. At first I thought my actual, my screener was buffering because I was like, wait, what? But it's all part of it. And when you figure out that, you know, the kind of like twist, if you like, then everything falls into place.

1:44:25But yeah, I'm on board. From a distance. I'm on board from a distance. I'm looking forward to James to give me some York notes on it. Okay, I see what's happening there. Yeah. You're not going to carry on watching it, but you're fully in favour of James Carrier watching it. Yes, I'm endorsing that action. There we go. And then I'll just tell you what happened. My royal subject. Okay, good. I'm glad we were able to sort this out. The Copenhagen test then, Boyd. Well, it's on Channel 4, as I said, Wednesday, the 8th of April, 10 o 'clock, 2026. 2026. Not to be confused with 2026. No. What else is out this week?

1:44:58Well, pick of the week is 2026, obviously. Says Boyd, earning his money. Forget. I forgot to do that. there's quite a lot actually The Miniature Wife starts on Sky Atlantic and now on Thursday the 9th that is heavily embargoed but this is the story of a man literally shrinking his wife Honey I Shrunk My Wife yes yes so and that's Matthew McFadden of Succession Fame which James has never watched James' favourite show James' favourite show famously but Elizabeth Banks she is the shrunken the aforementioned miniature wife the little lady literally a little lady so that's fascinating that's on Thursday there is The Boys James' favourite is back on Wednesday yes for the final season on Prime Video the final season very exciting there's the Malcolm in the Middle reunion four part special that's Disney Plus on Friday the 10th of April let's not forget this was the sitcom that first brought a certain Bryan Cranston to our attention Kate went on to be Breaking Bad of course the big mistakes is the latest oh I'm not going to say anything in Banco heavily embargoed this is Dan Levy's new project which is very exciting that's with he's made it with a woman who does I Love LA which is a great show the guy from I Love LA was at the HBO party really yeah very exciting and oh there's a thing called Ligas Ligas on Sky Atlantic and now on Tuesday at 9 o 'clock which is an Italian crime saga which is very highly acclaimed I love a saga highly acclaimed in Italy as our foreign language correspondent of course I'll be all over it like a rash day I think that's about it okay what is our pick of the week?

1:46:472026 the boys it is excellent no come on choose if I had to choose one yeah because it is a weekly tradition lucky that I'm having to remind you of the format to continue watching it would probably be the Testaments. Oh, really? Yeah, I think so. I'm going to continue watching the Copenhagen. Gosh, that shows you that he'd rather take trauma over laughs. It does. Again, the hypocrisy. That's how strongly he feels about laughing. On this week's Plus, there's an analysis, a great analysis by a listener of James' utter hypocrisy. Isn't it carries on? Is it Hayley? Yeah. Yeah, carries on now. It does.

1:47:25In front of our very eyes. That is true. If you don't subscribe to Pilot Plus, please do so because it's genuinely what enables us to do this podcast. And if no one subscribes to that, then we won't have a podcast. Then it's ciao for now. Then it's ciao for now, indeed. You can do so at the new website address. What? PilotTVPod.com. Wow. So if you go to PilotTVPod.com, you can subscribe to Pilot Plus. Well, an actual website address. Oh. It's not an actual website. As always with a pod, just slightly, just enough. Yeah, just enough. Yeah, basically. Slightly disappointed as well. Minimum viable product.

1:48:02God. The bare minimum. So yeah, pilotTVpod.com. I'm pleased to subscribe for a paltry sum of, I think it's like$3.49 a month. Less than a coffee. Yeah, pittance. Absolute pittance. Subscribe now. Do it. Follow us on the socials, at pilotTVpod, at Boyd Hilton, at Kay Ribeiro, at James C. Dyer. And we will be back next week. What are we back with? What is happening next week? Euphoria returns next week, obviously, on Sky. Margot's Got Money Troubles with Elle Fanning. That's on Apple TV. Beef Season 2 is on Netflix so a lot of exciting things on Pilot Plus this week we are going to let's be honest probably have a fight over what we cover big mistake we'll see come on okay same big mistake yeah I support that really done damn it sorry it's looking like it's a big mistake and not my beloved boys but I'm sure I'll get to talk about that on next week you know we can't do that it's not a new show it's the final scene you can't make the rules and break them even though you're say that.

1:49:01No, Gilead. You say that. I absolutely can. Your Aunt Lydia. With my Aunt Lydia hat on, I can absolutely break my own rules. Oh, dear. Blessed day. Pilot out.