The Walsh Sisters, Bridgerton, and The Night Agent. With guests Lisa McGee and Sinéad Keenan

27:23all but you know the scene's great so that was that was the day that was my pit of despair okay yeah you're all allowed one pit of despair day right yeah that has to be part of the deal um now i'm fascinated by um by uh the the character by roisin's character sarsha because she's a highly successful tv writer right now i think we all we're in the company of one of those how much it struck me that you're working out a lot of the experience you must have had as a award-winning creator of a brilliant show that you then transplanted onto this character who gets to do fantastic stuff her scenes are hilarious the bafta scene etc you must have experienced all that i feel like you're venting to something i definitely was venting to the point where like you know the execs uh leslie and caroline letter who does there i guess you did london irish i've worked with for years were like maybe we should cut some of this because it's is it a diary or just you know um but it was so much fun getting to write all that and getting to say things that I'm not brave enough to say in real life um and but it is about you know it's not it's not the real situation I just imagine if you were a writer that had had a success with a tv show that you started to hate that and you couldn't stop writing because it was too successful and and how that would fail and I thought that was a very interesting um way in because I very much understood Saoirse's career frustration so it was a way on a way under that character and actually a way under that that um to the show for me was through Saoirse and who your friends might be then and yeah but it was a lot of fun doing those BAFTA scenes.

29:02Oh I bet yeah but and it strikes me incredibly meta because then you've got the the show within the show that that um series is starts as the leading female detective and of course Sheenan is now the leading detective on The Great Unforgotten. Did you kind of identify, Sinead, with that whole idea of a cop show with a genre show that you're in? I mean, there's definitely detective work involved in both. Yes. One follows the legal course of detective work and one doesn't. Robin very much is, all three of them are really shit detectives. But that is what they're doing essentially. Their Scooby Doo detective work.

29:47And in the process of following little threads or big threads, they seem to get themselves further and further into trouble and make things worse. Yes. But somehow it works out in the end, just like Scooby Doo. Exactly. there's a bit where i think it's in episode four maybe where you you've done some detective work at least and you're very proud of it and you say something like i'm quite good at this stuff and i thought oh yeah that's a nod that's a nod to to your other work oh it could be yes yes

30:23um the the listen the thing looks spectacular as well i want to mean it's just beautiful right the lighting and the all the the kind of neony glowing thick color schemes and all of that and And obviously the shots of the landscape when we see those. Was that a thing you really wanted to kind of attempt to do, is make a thing that was visually stunning, as well as being funny and dramatic and all of that? Yeah, I did. But I think that's as far as my contribution went. I just said I wanted to look amazing. So that's all Mike Lennox and his team of brilliant designers and lighting designers and camera operators.

30:55And, you know, Mike's incredible at making. I think it's so rare that you find a director that can take what's inside your head and just put it on screen. He does it. And, you know, he's just a writer's director, really. So I love the look of the show, but that was certainly all him, you know. And he spoke to me all the time about it. We're always on the same page. You know, we never do something I think is wrong. But we're there together the whole time, talking the whole time. So, yeah, it's a great team, you know. I'm very lucky. Yeah. And when you're in the middle of it, Sinead, are you aware of how it's going to look?

31:35Or, you know, when you watch the finished article, you're like, oh, my God, this is, it looks kind of incredible. Certainly, I've never been on a set before with so many bells and whistles and toys and gadgets. And, like, my husband's a director, so I know a fancy lens when I see one. I mean, I don't know what they do, but I know when they come in those big fancy boxes, they're good ones. And we had a day before we started filming. Lisa, do you remember the day where it was like a camera test and we all had to do these random, come Sinead, come to the front. And then you just stand to the front, turn to the side, and then you walk back and I was like, what the hell are they doing?

32:18But then back behind us then, there was all different types of coloured lights being shown. And then as you were saying, Boyd, the neon signs and stuff, like they were there I was like well they're putting an awful lot of effort so like I knew I knew that it was it was gonna it was it was big the scale was big like the scale of the story was big but the production as well you you could tell you know some of a home it's like Netflix was involved yeah yeah does it make a big difference Lisa working for Netflix is that like part of the whole I mean they've they've been very supportive of a you know they've they've really um they've they've really just want me to make the show that i that i have in my head but i have to say like things haven't changed hugely for me because i have the exact same people around me like i've been working with the same people for 16 years so it feels just about like the same gang um which is kind of incredible so things are kept quite small for me um so that i can just write and make the show yeah so you feel very safe and after you know yeah yeah um i love the um glimpses we get of robin's home life um sinead like the particularly where you attack your husband having completely jumped to the most like ridiculous conclusions she does that's one of the defining things is but isn't it about her that she jumps she likes jumping to a conclusion yeah and and i think she's she's absolutely steadfast in her belief until she until i mean is she i mean even when she's proved wrong she's not really wrong as well.

33:56What's a stupid name for a man anyway? It's your own fault for being called Jesse. That kind of thing. But it was lovely to do that with Art Campion who was in London Irish. Yes.

34:17But yeah. Poor Jim. Poor Jim. And you've got an incredible supporting cast Lisa like Leila Farza, Tom Basden, Arlo Hanlon, Michelle Fairley, Josh Finnan who's like the man of the moment like oh Josh is incredible what a lovely performance from him I thought fantastic yeah and Emmett J Scanlon who loves loves going over the top right I mean he is just oh my god yeah it's like for Emmett I was like um I need someone who's immediately the baddie you know like and you just go to Emmett J Scanlon for that you know what I mean it can look so sinister but with all the like ardle you just go he would be an eccentric hotel owner and on a goal obviously it's ardle o 'hannon you know it doesn't take much much much working out sometimes it's so and you've all you've this incredible pull of talent of comic talent in ireland now and and those uk actors tom is hilarious like absolutely had us and wrinkles constantly he's just so funny um so yeah everyone was brilliant it's brilliant and it's great fun to hang out with these characters so with the you do love a gang don't you a gang of uh girls women and it works really well and by the end we're kind of we want to hang out with we'll get hat sorry we want to hang out with them again is there is this would you like to see this as a returning show i mean i would love to because i think once you have a cast like this um it's just it's it's a it's just such a pleasure to write for them and you're constantly thinking of like i'm already thinking of what stupid situation they could get into and you know i can hear them but we'll have to see you know it'll just depend who watches this but i'd certainly love to do another one sinead up for series two definitely no question no question And I have to ask before we depart, where are we with the next season of Unforgottenness?

36:15There was a read-through photo recently. Yeah, so we are shooting at the moment. So we're in the second or third week of the shoot. They very kindly released me. I'm going back into their care tomorrow evening. Excellent. Yeah, and then we filmed to mid-April. Yeah, and then it'll be out. that's way above my pay rate. I have no idea. Fair enough. Some time. And do you watch that show, Lisa, finally? You must do. I haven't seen it yet. No, but my parents, yeah, my parents are massive, massive fans. So I tend to not watch particularly any detective or thriller stuff when I'm trying to write that.

36:59I just get annoyed and jealous. But I will. I will. My parents are massive fans. Yeah. So I need to do that. Yeah. Brilliant. Well, congratulations on how to get over from Belfast. It's fantastic. Thank you. And thank you for joining us. Thank you so much. Thank you, Boyd. Thanks a million. That was Lisa McGee and Sinead Keenan. And time now for this week's listener question. Let me just rummage around in the pre-triaged post bag. And we have a message here, Kay, from Angie. Hi, Angie. Oh, my God. Den and Angie. Brilliant. Angie says, as I listened to today's pilot TV, I seriously considered cancelling my subscription.

37:37following your unjustified conclusions that cats tolerate humans and do not love them. A view too often stated by dog lovers. I love both cats and dogs, but I do find the independence of cats to be the main reason for owning cats over dogs. My two cats are hugely affectionate and sociable, as demonstrated by one cat's reaction to my return from a two-week holiday, and there is a picture of this cat looking very affectionate. So there you go. Sweet. What's the cat's name? Have you got any details? No idea. She probably told me, but I've forgotten. I was going to give him a shout-out. We should say, if people don't know, it's because Steph laid into cats everywhere on this podcast.

38:13She threw down the gauntlet, the furry gauntlet, against cats because she thinks they're evil, really. Well, Steph is a huge dog lover. That's the thing. And I think she's only got space in her affections for one animal. At a time. You can love both cats and dogs. Yes, always, but, you know. Anyway, Angie's question is not about cats or dogs. What she said is, it is prompted by Boyd's comment that industry, yes, we're back to industry, has reinvented itself each and every season. I immediately thought of The Good Place as another show that kept each season fresh. What other shows do you think reinvented themselves each year to the benefit of the show?

38:54I am excluding here the anthology shows like American Horror Story, True Detective and Fargo. Still loving the pod, cat views aside. Although I'm starting to believe Kay really has left. What kind of job share means one job sharer doesn't return for a whole month? Asking as I need a job share like that. No, listen, just to answer you on that point, is that the reason why there was such a long gap for me originally coming back on is just because to let Steph settle in. And then also we knew that I'd be here for a couple of weeks when she was having her tonsils out. So, you know, that's why there'll be after this another big gap and then we'll get into a regular rhythm.

39:30Don't you worry about that. Don't want these boys to get unruly. That's true. Chaos to keep us in line. so reinvented and rejuvenated TV shows I will refer you to a little show called Doctor Who never heard of it well let me just tell you this it's got a format which reinvents itself quite brilliantly throughout its multi-decade history and it has a fantastic device called the regeneration in which the Doctor moves on and is played by another actor when that said existing current doctor decides to move on. I'm really enjoying the fact that Kay is nodding. As if she's learning new information here.

40:12It's great. Which is, I think, a sign that she's not actually listening. It is true. Oh, my God. This is like the first, I rarely don't listen. But do you know why? It's because I was taking what Boyd was saying, but I was also thinking, I don't have an answer. I don't have an answer. So I was trying to simultaneously think of one. Sorry. Oh, well, I'm glad I'm giving you time to think of an answer. Yeah, exactly. It's Doctor Who. The answer is fucking Doctor Who. And that kind of would have been my answer. absolutely right I see given that it is one of your favourite shows as we've established on this podcast I do like Doctor Who which is your favourite reinvention Doctor Who your favourite Doctor well I like Shooty obviously because that's the one I jumped on board with because I wasn't watching Doctor Who before then but I also like that Tenon episode that James do you remember adamantly disagreed that I liked it he thought that he knew better and I didn't funnily enough yeah weirdly so Tenon and Getwa anyway it's an object lesson in renewing regenerating literally and revitalizing a show throughout its incredible run so far.

41:09So yeah, that would be my main answer. I also think The Leftovers is a good example. That is a good example because the first season is based on the book and then afterwards it sort of plows its own furrow and it does go in a very different direction. It does, yeah. And The White Lotus, which I think has a really clear... Anthology. Oh yeah, that is. It's kind of an anthology. Do you see how quickly I flip-flopped then? I agreed with Boyd and I was like, no, actually. I'm saying it's not an anthology. because there are characters from different series that pop up. There's like a couple. No, no, no, no.

41:38It doesn't matter. It's enough. It's not a fucking anthology. But isn't that the same for Doctor Who as well? Recurring characters pop up. Well, Doctor Who isn't an anthology. But Doctor Who isn't an anthology. What he's saying is, for me, the definition of an anthology show is a completely different story setting cast across a whole series. Each season. Yeah. And White Lois is not an example. Well, I think we'll let Angie be the judge of that. Well, okay, Angie. Let us know. But I think because Angie is a woman of fine taste and, you know. Oh, look at your curry in favour. I think she'll agree that while it feels a little bit like an anthology...

42:07Because it's an anthology. Because it does reinvent itself, as I'm answering the question properly. Yes, yes. It's serious. But actually, characters pop up from previous seasons. It's all in its own world, in its own timeline, and it is a consistent on-running show, albeit one that magically reinvents itself each time. In summary, I agree with Boyd. That is its genius. Thank you. I rest my case. Yeah. Right, you'll be pleased to know that I've prepared at least 13 ,000 examples of this. But I'm going to whittle them down in the interest of keeping the show tight. but it does give you time to Google furiously for your turn.

42:33Right. I agree with Boyd. You're just agreeing with Boyd, fine. God, there are loads of these. I thought an interesting one for this, really, is Blackadder. Because Blackadder, which obviously starts as a completely different show when it's just Richard Curtis for Series 1, and then when Ben Elton comes on for Series 2, it's basically another show. They might as well have called it something different. Kind of like an anthology. But same actors kind of playing the same characters. Yeah, but they're not the same characters, aren't they? I mean, aren't they? They're different characters. if you're going to go down the anthology fascism route right okay anthology fascism is my new band by the way Alias I thought was an interesting one because in season two of Alias with Jennifer Garner with Jennifer Garner our friend Jennifer Garner who will be on the podcast next week talking to you not me she like it totally switches from being like a double agent show to being a more traditional spy series and then they have a time jump in a later season it reinvents itself again and then there's a point where they just eject all that absolutely mad Rambaldi kind of weird Da Vinci Code mythology and become much more spy show of the week.

43:32Do you remember Ricky Gervais was in Alias, wasn't he? Yes. Incredible to think. So was Bradley Cooper. Oh, yeah. Mad. Oh, yeah. But that's done the opposite thing. So that's something that's gone, it goes from being very serialized to being quite episodic towards the end, whereas loads of shows have done the opposite where they've begun as episodic series and then gradually become more sort of mythology arc-based as they've gone along. So I am thinking things like Justified, which started out as a case of the week and then became an ongoing concern. Deep Space Nine, the big Star Trek example, a show that became very serialized as it went on.

44:03Fringe. Excuse me while I power down. Thank you. Fringe started a bit X-Files-y where it was like Freak of the Week and then it became this weird cross-dimensional mythology show which is what and Person of Interest which people talk about quite a lot did something very similar there. The other thing I wanted to mention was This is the abridged version by the way. This is the abridged version which is David E. Kelly's The Practice which is quite dark and gritty legal drama and then the final season of it, James Spader joins as Alan Shaw and it gets a very quirky, comedic, slightly surreal feel to it and then that's what tees up Boston Legal which is a full-on batshit comedy legal show but because that season kind of bridges those two shows it's a really weird reinvention of the practice.

44:46So that's my answer there. I had a few others but I will, for the sake of brevity, leave them and not talk about them. Okay. Even if it kills me. Which it might. You're the one who's brought in the new brevity rule. No, I'm here for it. Oh, Kay is adhering to the new role completely. That's how seriously I take it. That's right. Have you found any shows that remember themselves, Kay? No, like I said, I agree with you, and it's now time to move on. Okay, good. Fabulous. If you would like your question answered, or in Kay's case, ignored, on the Pilot TV podcast, do feel free to send it in via email to pilottv at empiremagazine.com.

45:18Marvellous. What comes next in this podcast of ours? Oh, that's right. News. The latest news, which I have absolutely been looking at and know all about. Well, there was a big news story, which is that we've been waiting 18 months, roughly, to see the pit. Those of us who have not gone on long-haul flights. Yes, us muggles have been left waiting. Yeah, those of us who don't go on long-haul flights to America fairly regularly. In this room, just me. Who have managed to watch it, because it is on all Virgin flights, I believe. I'm not being paid for by Virgin, by the way. He wants to be, but he's not.

45:52I'm available to take more flights if you aren't long-haul. Anyway, yeah, so I watched the season one over two long-haul trips. James watched it ages ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's finally coming. It's been confirmed. March 26th is the launch day of HBO Max in the UK. And it will, right from the start, season one in its entirety will be available to watch, to stream on that service. And then season two will launch, I think at the same time, we'll still be week by week because it's airing right now in America week by week. So series two launches the same day? I don't know if they haven't confirmed.

46:27I think exactly if it's going to be the same day. But it'll be simultaneous. My guess is that it will. Well, the first six or so episodes have aired in the States. Yeah, so I'm guessing it will, but that is a guess. How exciting. Yeah, and so other stuff. HBO Max is the home of Euphoria, House of the Dragon.

46:45Basically, it's quite complicated. So Sky Atlantic still carries on. If you've got Sky Atlantic or you get it as part of your Now TV package or whatever, you will still be able to watch shows that are ongoing HBO shows like Euphoria, House of the Dragon The White Lotus we mentioned before all those big shows Just like that? Well that finished anyway I believe, strictly speaking I was just thinking of ones where I can remember the logo on the credits So those existing shows will carry on being shown on Sky Atlantic Good But they will also be on HBO Max and HBO Max will be the place that new shows are on HBO shows after you like The Pit, etc.

47:22And there's a show called Lanterns coming up, which is part of a big... Sorry to interrupt. Is that what the comeback will be on? Yes, so the comeback will be on HBO Max, yeah. But I think because the comeback was on Sky already, I think that will be available as well. So it's quite... It's confusing, that, isn't it? It's a bit confusing, but, you know, you'll get used to it. So basically ping-pong between Sky and HBO Max and you'll find what you're looking for. Yeah, it's a bit of a ping-pong, yeah. And the other thing is, So Sky also had this big announcement this week that they've got a new deal with Netflix, Disney Plus, and HBO Max, and in fact even Hi-You.

47:58Do you know Hi-You? Is it Hey-You? Hey-You? Yeah, Hey-You. I think it's Hey-You. Okay, Amanda Seyfried, Seth Freed. Hey-You! Oh yeah, Hey-You, yeah. That's going to be launched later in the year. But for£24 a month, now this sounds like an advert. I'm not advertising. This is just the story. This was quite a big story. Just deal in the facts. For£24 a month, you get all of those subscriptions. Oh, wow. But that's£25 on top of your Sky subscription, right? £24. Oh, sorry, sorry. No, no, no, not on top of it. That's the whole subscription. Yeah, if you don't have sport, any other additions to it, your entertainment package essentially is all of those things.

48:35Wait, sorry, can you just repeat the channels you're going to get for£24? Because that's a good deal, I think. Sky. So existing Sky stuff. All Sky except for sport. Fine, I don't need sport. Except for sport and movies, cinema. Whatever, that's fine. All its basic entertainment stuff. Yeah. HBO Max launching Hey You Hey You Netflix all of that in one package Listen I'm not getting paid either but actually I might consider swapping my deal This does feel a lot like a commercial plug at this point No no no no No but this is a user service because that is generally like people are paying a lot of money for individual subscriptions and that's I Instagrammed a shot of it so I went to the announcement of that package Yeah and I Instagrammed the image that big things coming just go wherever that's and people were DMing me saying oh can you talk about this on the podcast and explain what the podcast it's not I'm not advertising.

49:15I see. I see. It's a listener service. It's a listener service, factually. Now, I should add that if you want the 4K Ultra HD versions of those channels, you have to pay more. So you pay, you do pay more for that, like, you know, a few pounds more a month. Because it's, I mean, I do always think, who's watching stuff and not in HD anymore? Really? Not in HD is different to not in 4K, though. Yeah, that's true. Sorry, not in 4K. I've basically got an aerial on top of the TV that I'm moving around, right? So there are some people left. Oh, God, okay. Get a new TV cape, please. Yeah, I'm waiting for you to find one.

49:47Thanks. Yeah, you're right. It's in HD, but yeah. HD, not UHD. Not HD, not UHD. Exactly. Fair enough. But anyway, so that's quite an interesting thing. And they're really like going, this is like the biggest thing in the world, biggest kind of all-round package in the world, including all of those. Because people complain about having to subscribe separately to all these different streaming services, particularly. And, you know, if you want a prime video. It is a faff, and it's expensive. Yeah, it's a faff, yeah. if you want Prime Video or Apple TV those are different you have to pay for it I was about to say now that you've basically told people to cancel their Apple TV subscription and subscribe exclusively to Sky for all of these packages does that mean that Tim Cook comes around to your house and takes back all the goodies he gave you you know what it means it means that James and I are available for those trips going forward it is it is Tim if you're listening Boyd's persona Noncrata Apple and James and I Boyd has forsaken you don't listen to this nonsense in fact Timmy Timmy that's the reason you're going to go with.

50:44Now, in fact, what's interesting is if you've got SkyQ, did you say you've got SkyQ? Yeah. No. Oh, okay. Sorry, I thought you said you. If you've got SkyQ, it actually offers you Apple TV shows on its, you know, homepage. Yeah. Anyway, because so, you know, it's trying to be a platform where you can access everything you want from it. But specifically, those channels are part of this deal. But obviously, Apple TV is a glorious streaming service. It's all right. Do you know what? The exciting launch of HBO Max makes me think of the best thing that's going to be on HBO. And it's not actually, at this point, The Pit, although it is fabulous.

51:18You're talking about the comeback. Nor is it the comeback. And it's not even my beloved The Last of Us, though it is connected to that. And it is that I'm now very strongly suspecting that The Last of Us will end with the third season. And the reason why I'm very strongly suspecting that is because Craig Mazin is going to be doing an adaptation of one of the best video games ever made, Baldur's Gate 3, for HBO. Apparently he has played this game for a thousand hours. how he had the time to start making things like Chernobyl and you know The Last of Us while he's playing a thousand hours of Baldur's Gate 3 I don't know it's a great game though so he's doing another hugely famous a fantasy TV series which will follow on from the story that began in the video game Baldur's Gate 3 that's that is incredible one of my favourite games ever so yeah I'm very very excited about this fact so that's going to be coming to presumably HBO Max since it is an HBO show absolutely 100 % will be yeah So I've got a bit of old news, which is that the Bergerac Season 2 trailer dropped.

52:14Wow. The John Nettles one? No, you always say this. It's with Damon Maloney. And it got me excited because as you will recall, James, because you listen to every single thing I say to you. I do, yes. Do you remember that weekend when I binged the first series last year? Yes, I actually do. Yeah, and I enjoyed it. So I'm very happy he's reprising his role. And the trailer is very breathy. There's a lot of huffing and puffing. But what I have gleaned is that he's potentially moving on romantically after the death of his wife and his issues aren't far, are far from behind him. So, you know, there's a lot going on, but I'm excited.

52:46No date, I don't think. So we'd have to keep... Were you not more excited by the new Bill Lawrence TV show that a trailer dropped for, which is the Rooster show with Steve Carell? Okay, I was... I wasn't going to mention this. I watched the trailer... And you weren't impressed. I didn't find it very, very funny. Interesting. Did you? I didn't watch the trailer. I have no opinion. What a fascinating discussion this is going to be. Have you seen it, Boyd, the trailer? I know what you mean. Yes, I did see it. It seemed okay, but it just... Anyway, I'm sure when the series cranks up, I'll love it.

53:19But I wasn't overwhelmed by the trailer. Talking of Bill Lawrence, of course, one of the genuine news stories I think that was exciting was the trailer for Scrubs, for the rebooted Scrubs, which is, of course, the Bill Lawrence creation. Have you seen that, James? Is that a Scubs fan? Have I watched the trailer? Well, the thing that has bothered me about that is that the janitor is not going to be in it. I know. And so I'm almost boycotting the new series of Scrubs because of that. I'm boycotting it to the extent that I'm going to have to watch it for the show. Yeah. Well, he is in Shrinking, so maybe you need to get on that.

53:52Yeah, maybe so. Just FYI, yeah. But John C. McGinney's going to pop up in it. And he's fabulous. He's absolutely brilliant. Yeah, Dr. Cox. But he's not in it all the way through. He's described as the guest star, which is interesting. But I thought the trailer looked quite funny, and I'm intrigued to see what it's going to be like. Yes, I'm fascinated. And it's going to be on Disney Plus in the UK February 25th, 26th. Something like that. Yes. So, but yeah, the revival of Scrubs, it's a big deal. I can't believe, in fact, this goes back to the Cats and Dogs discussion of earlier. You know what I'm going to say.

54:24The big news of the week, I can't believe you haven't. Yeah, see? Claudia. Oh my God, yeah. Claudia is going to be co-hosting Crufts. Yeah, just queue it up. yeah Paulie Winkerman friend of the pod yeah go on Boyd well I mean what's incredible is that you know she's got she's got her BBC One chat show coming so when Graham Norton the aforementioned Graham Norton show ends in a couple of weeks time it's annual stint there'll be a break and Paulie Winkerman is going to get that slot with her own chat show can't wait and that was announced a while ago but she's also going to do and she'll obviously be doing Celebrity Traitors if not filming now maybe also the piano she's got the piano she's got so many things but she's clearly gone I think she's got I haven't asked her about this myself.

55:03Dog do lally. My assumption is, she's gone, you know what? Of all the shows that are out there on TV, I really fucking love dogs and I really want to do Crufts. So she's joining the existing team. How about this? Two national treasures, Claire Balding and Claudia Winkleman, together on TV, plus cute dogs throughout, across its whole three or four day thing. Yeah. I mean, it's genuinely, I'm genuinely thrilled and excited about the prospect of this thing. Do you watch Crufts? I do watch Crufts. quite, not all of it, but I do watch quite a lot of it. And you know partly why I watch, I mean, I do love a dog.

55:37I am a dog lover. But, and so you get so many. What's your favourite dog? Well, my friend's Balder Terrier is my favourite dog, Zambo. I like a Black Lab. Oh, Black Lab's brilliant, yeah. I like Huskies. Oh, you're very, yeah, I can see that. I want a Husky. Yeah, Husky's good. Yeah, I can definitely see that. But Crufts is inherently brilliant to watch. It's fantastic, and Claire Boulding does a brilliant job on it, for a start. But If you've seen Best in Show, the legendary comedy film from that gang who did Spinal Tap and Waiter for Guffman, etc. Best in Show is, for me, the funniest of all of them.

56:13Even funnier than Spinal Tap, I would say. Is it one of your favourite films of all time? It's one of my favourite films of all time, without doubt. When you watch Cruft, all you can think about is Best in Show because it's got the judging, the madness of the judging and the commentary and observing the obsessive world of dog competitions, of which Crufts is the biggest in the world. And so it's an absolute unending delight. And so I partly watched Crufts with thinking of the joy of Best in Show at the same time. But yeah, Claudia co-hosting that show, Absolute Dream Country. Fabulous. Pilot TV stuff, genre, obviously.

56:49Oh, clearly, yes. We will, of course, be reviewing Crufts on an upcoming episode of this podcast. Let's bloody hope so. You will if Steph has anything to do with it. she is obsessed yeah Steph is always best in show you're saying it in front of me so out of order anyway if that's all the news then I just wanted to end on the sad news that James Van Der Beek passed away he was 48 and he had bowel cancer and yeah his wife announced it I think on Instagram saying he met his final days with courage faith and grace so very sad news yes very sad there have been lots of lovely testimonials from people like Sarah Michelle Gellar and his other co-stars but yeah really sad only 48 years old absolutely shocking yeah it was great and I want to tell you what's really sad is reading the article today about his widow saying they had to raise loads of money because to pay for his treatment actually yeah I'm glad you mentioned that because I wanted to bring it up because he apparently a few months or you know a year ago he was started selling his Dawson's Creek memorabilia to pay for treatment and actually I saw today online that some of the friends and family of the Van Der Beek's have set up a GoFundMe so just to say if anyone you know wants to do check that out because it sounds like they're in a bit of a tough spot yeah very sad right that is it for this week's news let's move on to the reviews and first up this week we have the Walsh sisters on BBC One this is Stephanie Price and this is an adaptation of the Marion Keys novel series about a group of five Dublin based sisters and their entirely chaotic personal lives and this stars Extraordinaries Marais Tyres Derry Girls Louisa Harlan Shadow and Bones Danielle Galligan among others not to mention Price and herself it's mayhem it's messy it's extremely bickery but does it capture Key's sisters in all their madness Kay please do tell us little fact for you when I arrived at Heat I was a big Marianne Key's fan and I reviewed some of her books and I received a massive bunch of flowers from her thanking me personally handwritten notes yeah very sweet but yeah I was a huge fan of her books and particularly of the Walsh family I have to confess there are a lot of details that now you know it was so long ago I've slipped my mind but I remember the key crucial parts and for me this has absolutely done it justice it's a hard feat so you said like Stephanie President is the one who's adapted this I think she's done a beautiful job because it's a lot this is based on multiple books multiple characters particularly the five sisters and they each have really sort of in-depth layered stories and character arcs and so to try and distill that all into one series or even in this first episode that we're reviewing is a mean feat.

59:23And I think she's really pulled it off. The first episode is sort of centered around Rachel, who, as you've alluded to, is like very messy. Well, she's self-absorbed and charming, but she's got addiction issues, right? And so this charts the impact it has on her boyfriend, Luke, played by Jade Duffy, and also for her loyal sister, Anna, played by Louisa Harland, and fiance, Aidan, played by Samuel Anderson, as well as the ripple effect on the rest of the family. She's got three other sisters and her parents. Each of the sisters are really well drawn. And that's the thing. This is what I think Stephanie Preston's done really well, is that she's really honoured those vividly drawn characters Marion created in the books and also reflects the dark comic humour because this is a regular sort of Irish close-knit dysfunctional family.

1:00:12And it really comes across, you know, each of them have really interesting stories. So the other sisters include Claire, scatty single mum. She's played by Danielle Galligan. We have people pleaser Maggie, who's struggling to conceive and she's played by Presna herself. You've got Helen, who's played by Marais Tyres, who's snarky and struggles with anxiety. And then you've got the parents as well, played by Carrie Crowley and Aidan Quinn. So I think this first episode does a really good job of establishing these characters, the dynamics. it's very darkly funny it really conveys the emotion of you know being in a family with someone with addiction issues and how hard that is especially when they're in denial so all in all I think fans of the books will be pleased with this I was delighted by it I think each episode I've watched four and a half episodes each episode is funny darkly funny but also packs an emotional punch and also I've got to say the performances of in particular Caroline Menson and Louisa Harland are fantastic in their portrayal of addiction and loss.

1:01:17Each ep packs an emotional punch and you will probably be in tears. And also great music choices as well. There is a scene where they do a little kind of routine in the bar. Yeah. Which I have to say, I found borderline excruciating. I'm looking at James for... No, no, it's not criticism. But it's authentic, I think. Oh yeah, no, 100 % a bit. But in fact, actually, what makes it very authentic and believable, if excruciating, is you've got the blokes, the partner sitting there watching this display of sister me I don't know why you're acting like this when at the Sky Christmas party we were doing a routine all three of us I mean yeah of course I very much identified with the bloke sitting there watching horrified as their as their loved ones performed in front of in front of people they're having a good crack they're having a great they're having a great fucking crack yeah what a week for Irish women in ensemble casts in very well written and directed ongoing serial TV shows because How to Get to Heaven from Belfast was brilliant, as we've discussed.

1:02:18And I've never read a Marianne Keyes novel in my life, but I know. It does show you. I do feel like by not having read them, I'm buying into the patriarchy and the world of publishing, which completely divides, this is a side issue, but I just thought I'd mention it anyway, it completely divides book reading into the genders. I mean, basically, men are not in a million years supposed to read Marion Keys' books. I'm sure she'd be delighted if they were. And the marketing of so-called chick lit, all of that, all comes down to the idea that men would never in a million years read any of these types of books.

1:02:53Yeah, or commercial fiction. And similarly, there are genres aimed primarily at men. But anyway, I have gone along with the majority of men who wouldn't go beyond that. Huge mistake. Maybe I'll belatedly go back and read some of them. But as a TV show in its own right, this is excellent. And I think what I really liked about it was that it's not kind of, it isn't ever silly. There's humour all the way through. It's injected with humour, which comes from the interrelationships, mainly between the sisters and their little kind of ways of expressing themselves. They're all quite sharp and all kind of slagging each other off all the way through.

1:03:30And their relationship with the parents. Yeah, the mum. The mum is scathing all the way through to all of them, basically. the much put upon dad and barely identifiable Aidan Quinn by the way who's you know like just seeing him doing this role he's great in it by the way and I just thought it's so there's little moments that are so well done like that that bar moment I think it's really good at depicting social drinking and drug taking and the effect that has on people I mean the very first scene is kind of all about you know has or hasn't Rachel the character of Rachel gone too far with her drinking and drug taking and that becomes the theme all the way through and I thought that was dramatised so well and particularly that relationship between the character of Rachel and Anna the two closest sisters in a way so dependent yeah and they're very much how far Anna is going to let her sister carry on with her messy life she would be described as a hot mess were it not for the fact that that phrase was banned when Terry White was on regular on the show quite rightly but she's an absolute mess and she's completely embroiled in this whole world of drug taking etc but I just thought it was really well handled and really convincingly done and the interrelationships just kind of made perfect sense and it is funny without trying too hard and really importantly in this day and age, in the day and age where people judge whether to carry on watching a series after half a minute it draws you in very quickly I thought and I believed in it, you know my five minute test if after five minutes you think oh yeah i believe in these people you will carry on watching it and and so from that point you work really well and it also has a really a big cliff hang of an ending each episode which again i think does that so well it really does and that really makes you want to carry on watching and i had to i had to watch the second episode of the end of the first because there's a huge thing that happens at the end of the first episode so from all those points of view they've done a really good job um uh particularly they've done a fantastic job particularly Stephanie Pryson who who's the adapter at adapting these books at turning into whether you've read the books or not a really entertaining clever smart funny TV show in its own right and a very daunting prospect for her oh I bet my one criticism too many corridors Samuel shut up Samuel Anderson who I love in everything and he's great in a mandoland for example at the moment and he's a very handsome funny talented guy I could not work out what his accent was to start with.

1:06:01I think, yeah. I was like, what the fuck? I was like, is he doing American? Eventually, they make it clear that he is American. Yes. But quite late on in the episode, they refer to that. And all the way up to that point, I'm like, is it a version of Irish? Is it? I could not get a handle on what the fuck is. To the point where it was driving me to distraction. And I was like, literally, I was like Googling it, going, is the character American in the novels? Is he American in the novels, Kay? Do you remember? I can't remember. No. Anyway, it was, and then when it was finally, okay, he's American, but I don't think maybe because we know so well how Samuel Anderson really speaks or like because going back to the History Boys that I was in and I've followed his career and I've probably met him quite a few times I just it was so weird to have him doing this accent that's my literally Don't let that put you off It was not it's not let me put it off that's my one issue but he's brilliant anyway and it's a great show James please give a favourable report of this Well I am not close personal friends with Samuel Anderson so I was not in any way put off by his American accent it was absolutely fine no it's really good I really enjoyed it I wasn't this was a it was like quite a late sub in to our schedule this week but yeah I had a really good time with it I wasn't really sure what to expect from it but exactly as you said I think I think there's some very so it's not it's not a comedy but I think you've got some oh my god this is not a comedy no but you've got what's interesting is you have some comedic actors in there who are very experienced comedic actors who are very very good at that and so it is funny but it's kind of quite darkly funny yeah yeah yeah but it's really really enjoyable and I think you know their dynamic is great their relationships are great the plot while it's not like you know a high stakes story you're immediately invested in this first episode in Rachel's well-being because it starts with her on a night out getting absolutely twatted and her boyfriend calling an ambulance and so immediately you're like oh my god what is happening here and then it you know continues her denial over this addiction thing but yeah it's I mean I wouldn't have necessarily thought this would be my kind of show but I thought it was great brilliant the Irish sense of humour comes across very well and more Irish shows please now yes can we have all the Irish shows Irish and Australian bring them on The Walsh Sisters then which is on BBC One and iPlayer when Boydie?

1:08:05Saturday this coming Saturday the 21st of February 9.15pm and can we it's interesting so Saturday night is the new home of kind of BBC drama with you know the Josh Finnon show which was huge Waiting for the Out Waiting for the Out just finished on BBC One Saturday night and I was saying how odd it is in a way that had a Saturday night stop but now clearly they've established this as a thing and so yeah this has got now quite a big prime time you know nice slot for what is a really good show yeah if you're not out on Saturday night watch it exactly next up which of us is out on Saturday night don't fool yourself is it getting hot in here it might be because next up we have the triumphant return of Gabriel Basso's The Night Agent on Netflix steady yourself Kay steady yourself the smelling salts are over there I'm not saying the Kay returning to this podcast and The Night Agent returning to our screens is a coincidence it is a coincidence however However, I'm also not saying that, but this is, of course, the third season of the show, and it sees Peter Sutherland.

1:08:59He's now a proper, fully qualified night agent, and he's on the trail of a rogue treasury official who's stolen classified material, and he's hunkier than ever. Clearly, Kay, we're far too of a fluster to, you know, talk about this objectively. So we turn to Boyd, who is hopefully immune to the night agent's sexy charms. I can't even remember. like you actually so let's go back because this has been a running joke yeah exactly he piquebacked me saying in our first review of it or whatever that I thought he was handsome and but we agreed that maybe it wasn't the best you know like highest quality of drama etc and then from then on he was just ragging me for fancy in this car so you did say you thought he was handsome at the start I did at the time and I instantly regretted it I'm sure you did he's actually kind of like a bit of a funny looking fella this is why I regretted it because and I didn't want to say this but now that you've gone into it is that I thought he was handsome for a moment in the thing.

1:09:57I said it stupidly on the pod and then he's been going on for years about it and I've actually changed my mind. Oh my God, poor guy. I can't believe both of you are now throwing shade at the objectively handsome Gabriel Basso. No, no, he is. And then I keep on flip-flopping because I was watching this. I was like, oh, maybe. See, she loves him. Anyway, we're on the clock. That's all right. Anyway, but yeah, he's quite, Let's just say he's not your standard leading man looks. He's got a kind of... Oh, really? Yeah, I don't think so. I think he's a kind of leading man. Don't you, James? Oh, yes.

1:10:28Dashing. Dashing. Let's not get hung up about it. Anyway, he is an interesting presence at the centre of this. Frankly, I mean, it's actually better than I remembered it being. It's been quite popular, to be fair. Like, it's a hit. Oh, James, the fact that something's a huge hit on the streaming service like this does not guarantee it's good. No, but I'm just saying... I mean, some of the worst things in history are massive on Netflix. so you know yeah I get it it's a hit of course it's a hit but it is equally and partly because it's a hit I think it is very formulaic and undemanding etc but I do think this seems better in terms of quality in terms of like ambition direction even the writing isn't quite as as I remember it being so generic to start with I could barely kind of get rousing interest in it although there is the cheesy line of in a flashback what I'd say is very good because it has a recap which I definitely needed.

1:11:21Yeah, the old God same, yeah. Yeah, and in the flashback, which, by the way, goes back to 23 years previously, there's a bit... He's a little kiddie. Yeah, the mum says, promise me you'll do the right thing, even when it's hard. Yeah, that flashback was completely ridiculous. And totally unwarranted. And who needed it? It was insane. But I guess they're trying to flesh out his character because if he's not there, then it's a kind of like banal nothing at the centre of this show. Wow. No, no, no, he's fine. but they're trying their best to make him you can't deliver a blow like that and go no no he's fine well they're trying their best to make the character three dimensional at least and have something because he's a bit of a routine it's just a routine kind of you know so what you're saying is that people like Kay just objectify him and he actually he's a real person beneath his no that's what you're saying no okay he is generic but he's trying to like he's on this quest I think what I help do is you know kind of flesh out the quest he's on to right the wrongs that he has done in the previous series sure I get it yeah don't get me wrong but what I was pleasantly surprised about was it felt like the scope and ambition of it had been ratcheted up.

1:12:20So, for example, there's a whole sequence at a football match, which I thought they did a brilliant job at because I don't know how they did it. They must have filmed some of it at a real match because there was the match going on and then all kinds of things were happening in the stands. And I just thought that was really cleverly done. There was probably lots of... At one point, I wondered if it was an England team playing. It wasn't, was it? No, no, no. Where were they? I love how you're looking at me at this point. I have no idea. It's an Eastern European. It was an Eastern European place where it's there and that was a game going on and they just did it really well.

1:12:51You know, that could easily go horribly wrong. It would look awful. But I thought personally, James would probably chime in and say, look, the volume was terrible or whatever. But I thought they did that very well and the action sequences were well directed. So I think it's kind of one of those Netflix shows that is, as we said, really popular and basically quite well done, if a bit generic, but better than I remembered it being when we reviewed it first time around. They'll be thrilled and delighted to hear. yeah I mean it's wildly generic isn't it really I because this has been on my list like I dismissed it as I think we all did when it first came out I said I don't need to see any more of this and then because it's been quite a hit and it's on its third season which is no small thing on Netflix I was like I must go back to that listeners I will not be going back to The Night Agents I get exclusively reveal what a shock yeah sorry well listen this isn't you know no comparison with The Night Manager it's in a different This is less finesse, less classy, less everything than that.

1:13:49But what I would say is because I, like you, didn't go back and watch anymore. For some reason, it does what it sets out to do, right? And it draws you in. That's what I found with this. Because there were moments when I thought, oh, you know, like the cheesy dialogue or the bits where, you know, I didn't fully buy into him being this highly skilled agent, right? Because there's so many moments where there's a couple of moments. I think he's in Turkey or, and like such conspicuous activity. Yes, he's in Istanbul. I got it right. I said Eastern Europe before. It shows how much attention I was paying.

1:14:22But he is in Istanbul, yes. And he's like, you know, he's got this baseball cap on and like he's involved in this chase. You're like, this is so not covert. What are you doing? I would do a better job. But then when I was Googling it, I realized that actually in the previous season, he had a desk job. So maybe he's learning on the job. Oh, yeah, that's part of the idea, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. He's gone from desk job clock to heroic action figure. So I was being uncharitable when I was watching it, and then I subsequently realised. But I do think it draws you in. And it is pacey, it's high octane, it's thrilling, it's globe-spanning.

1:14:56So, I mean, it's got a lot of the things, elements that you would want from a thriller like this. So what I'm saying is it's not your prestige drama, but there is something very watchable about it. Just to say, I'm sure there is. Oh, here we go. Shut up, Jess. very watchable just to say the game he goes to is a Besiktas game which is in one of the Turkish big Turkish football clubs it's a confusing Turkey with his and we can either cut it out or could admit my incompetence when I'm reviewing the show I think you know where we're going to land on that it makes you more human and authentic makes you relatable thanks mate anyway that's a good sequence the Besiktas football sequence James oh you've kind of you're not going to watch it I have nothing I'm never You know what, I'm probably not going to carry on watching it either because I've got too much to watch.

1:15:44Yeah, me too. Absolutely not. Okay, moving hastily on from that, and the last show we have to talk about this week is, of course, the last thing you told me, except it isn't, is it? Because it was embargoed, so we're not going to be able to do that. But as we've said, Jennifer Garner will be on next week and she'll do a much better job. In the meantime, it has been pointed out that we entirely avoided talking about Bridgerton when it returned for its fourth season and that, in fact, we have given short shrift to Bridgerton as a whole on this podcast. Well, to be fair, it was heavily embargoed, so it didn't fit in with our schedule.

1:16:17We couldn't have reviewed it before it went out on Netflix, and then it went out, and then it was too late, and then we reviewed something else on Plus. I'm just explaining that we haven't ignored it deliberately. It's just, as an ongoing show, we didn't have time if it was embargoed. Well, we have about five minutes left. So, Kate, would you like to give us a whistle-down tour of the latest season of Bridgerton? Yeah. Well, I'll just give my verdict, which is that I watched the first half when it first landed and I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the focus on the upstairs-downstairs dynamic this time round and this mini-revolution or revolt that's going on amongst the domestic staff, plus the fact that the older characters, their lives and romances are getting focused on a bit more.

1:16:59So you've got Lady Banbury's bid for freedom and you've got Lady Bridgerton getting back on the horse, so to speak. Which horse? and then at the centre of this of course is the cross-class romance between Benedict and Sophie played by Yeren Ha who is a maid but also she was at the masquerade ball

1:17:22and yeah it's about whether they can transcend the social like the conventions that say they can't be together because she's of a different supposedly a different social class two things right so overall I just really enjoyed it I enjoyed it I think more than last series two things it's made me want to go to a ball or a mass ball so if anyone is having one please invite me oh yeah I'm going to throw one you know you're the kind of person who actually would you've got the means are you thinking a bit like Eyes Wide Sharp no no I'm just saying in his like in I don't know his east wing or whatever he could just have a ball but also I was furious at the fact that I had to wait for the second half I know it's a model of Netflix to split in two but you know the wait has been feels interminable even though it's not that long and it's been exacerbated by the fact that at the end by Benedict's bellend behaviour towards Sophie which I was furious at yeah he's a bit of a twat isn't he yeah he is am I right in thinking have I got confused when he was first introduced back in the beginning he was like having sex with men as well wasn't he?

1:18:33Is that a thing that he's still doing? I think so yeah because in this series we see yeah I think is it in this series we see him also maybe having some fun with a man? I don't know but yeah so he's officially like a bisexual character he's fluid boys don't label him no no no I was just wondering because I was wondering whether they suddenly decided not to address that or you know kind of ignore the fact that that happened ages ago I think it might be referenced in this series but throughout it has been you know he's generally just a rakish character who is having his cake and eating it. It certainly is.

1:19:04I have questions though. Is it still as... I watched most of the first episode and it's kind of... Tonally it's the same as it ever was but it felt slight... Is there more shagging and gratuitous nudity coming up in the... Or have they toned that down? The ones that I've seen I haven't seen a lot of. I don't think. Yeah. It didn't feel... There's a little bit because as I said Lady Bridgerton is... Yeah. Yeah. Making moves in the bedroom. Okay. Making moves in the bedroom. Yeah, it's funny. I watched the first episode of this season, and on the one hand, it reminds you of why people love the show, because it's just a fun place to be, Bridgerton.

1:19:40It definitely is aware of its own kind of madness, if you like, like the whole concoction of this world, with kind of modern songs on the soundtrack, and people behaving in a ridiculous way, etc. you could kind of critique it for being ridiculously over the top but it is fun at the same time and I think the fun factor is there in that first episode I watched but it did seem it seemed less obsessed with the sex segment which was one of the very famous things when it first started people were like oh this has got a lot of shagging going on almost in a kind of heated rivalry way people were like oh you know it gets right down to it quite quickly it's definitely less than the first or second but yeah there is sex in it it's just not as There's lots of yearning.

1:20:26I think it could be faster. I think the pace could be, it could go a faster pace and it could learn something from Heat Arrival. There's only so much constant yearning without getting down to it you could take. Mushroom hockey, they should bring in. I like to see the hockey-based version of this show. But I do think Heat Arrival will have an impact on this kind of show because it's shows which depend on extending the time before a romance is fulfilled, so to speak, week by week by week. Because in Heat Arrival, the great thing is they get down to it very quickly within the first 10, 20 minutes of the show.

1:20:56Maybe a change of pace is a good thing. Yeah, maybe. Because you don't want to, you know, wham, bam, thank you, man. No, okay, maybe. Anyway, I enjoyed it, but yeah, again, it's one of those shows. It feels less like must-see viewing than it did to start with. But maybe that's inevitable. What about you, James? Didn't watch it. Anyway, let's wrap up this week's show. That has been locked and loaded in my brain, right? Next time I can't watch something because of a screener issue and he gives me shit, We'll revisit this. Okay. We'll see you, Mr. Dyer. What else is out this week, Boyd? What else is out this week?

1:21:30Well, the last thing he told me is out this week. We can't talk about that. Oh, yeah, we can't talk about that. We should talk about, what was it, 56 Days. Isn't Ask and an Answer again, Boyd? Yeah. 56 Days is on Prime. We're going to be talking about that on Pilot Plus. That drops on Wednesday. Correct. The Lady, you're about to say, comes to ITV on Sunday. Let me talk. I'm not. I'm not doing it. No, no, no. I'm happy for you. I'm traveling through. No, I like it. No, this is great, yeah. and Bruce, which is the story of the woman who worked for Ferguson, Fergie, Ferguson, Sarah Ferguson, now, not Alex, kind of, disgraced Sarah Ferguson.

1:22:03She's still called Sarah Ferguson. Yeah, I'm just thinking about it, she's ex, one-time Duchess of Yorker. Yes. So the woman who worked for her ends up being a killer and that is the intriguing story with me and McKenna Bruce as the woman in that, yes. And so hopefully we'll read that next time. The Rookie new series, does anyone care? Sky Witness now on Tuesday the 17th, I don't know how many series there have been of that. A lot. I think it's like seven. Very popular with Gen Zed, apparently. Oh, there you go. What is our pick of the week? The Walsh Sisters. Yes, absolutely. No question. Everyone should watch it.

1:22:35Hard to disagree. Hard to disagree. Right, that is it for this week's show. If you enjoyed it, please do leave us a review. I hope you've enjoyed the exciting new logo that we have if you're watching it on YouTube. Isn't it glorious? ZSG, honestly. And obviously, we're on social media at various places. Cool. Six things. Good. Yeah. Give it to the point. We'll be back next week with, as we've said, Jennifer Garner. What else is out next week? Paradise returns for season two. That's very, very exciting. Scrubs is coming back. That show starts next week as well. Monarch, Legacy of Monsters comes back to Apple.

1:23:08Absolutely not. Okay, very excited. Vanished comes to Prime. So there's quite a few things for us to pick from. Dirty Business on Channel 4. Yeah. Oh, yes. I'm excited about that. That's the one about the pollution, the water company polluting the rivers. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Vanished, did you say that? I did. Prime Vidio yeah okay good fantastic well in this week where we have dubbed The Wolf Sisters our pick of the week I look forward to receiving a lovely bouquet of flowers from Marion Keys pilot out