Too Much, The Institute, Bookish, and Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. With guests Jeffrey Dean Morgan & Scott Gimple, Emer Kenny & Lauren Lyle

4:35Lauren Lyle:No. That's it. That's where you go.

4:37Jeffrey Dean Morgan:And the other thing I've watched is The Couple Next Door, which is Channel 4. If you remember, we reviewed the first episode of Season 1.

4:44Scott Gimple:James does not remember. I don't remember, but I'm going to Google it.

4:46Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Right, Hugh Dennis. it's got Eleanor Tomlinson Alfred Enoch Sam Heughan I'm saying and it was about the couples that you know the blurred lines they live on a cul-de-sac

4:56Lauren Lyle:I do remember this yes

4:58Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Hugh Dennis was a peeping Tom if you will

5:00Lauren Lyle:and there's a cul-de-sac in Leeds and everyone's shagging everyone aren't they like it's a whole thing it's a shaggy

5:04Jeffrey Dean Morgan:it's a bit shaggy yeah is an understatement anyway the second series also very steamy but this time focuses on a new couple a heart surgeon played by Annabelle Scully and her doctor husband Jacob played by Sam Palelio and they have their heads turned by a seductive nurse called Mia played by Aggie K Adams and suffice to say episode 2 is steamy I have to say I enjoy this much more than the first series already

5:29Scott Gimple:yeah I think it's much better than the first series as well yeah I had issues with the first series but this is a romp we would have been up for review but it's so much on this week that we didn't have time

5:39Jeffrey Dean Morgan:soapy fun raunchy it ticks all of James' boxes oh yeah

5:43Scott Gimple:raunchy soapy fun

5:46Jeffrey Dean Morgan:let's not get into that

5:46Scott Gimple:The original series was one of Channel 4's biggest drama hits as well. Was it? Of recent years. It was massive for them. Good people. Yeah, absolutely.

5:53Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, absolutely. And finally, I've watched a bit more True Crime, which I know will come as a shock to you. It was for work, but I have to say I did enjoy it. It's called Death of a Showjumper. It's on Sky Documentaries. And it's not gruesome, which is the main thing that turns me off these shows. But it is horrific in terms of the behaviour that is displayed. and it's basically about a documentary into the death of Katie Simpson, a young talented show jumper who supposedly committed suicide in 2020, but actually an investigative reporter did some digging because she didn't buy it and actually the true story is devastating.

6:32Jeffrey Dean Morgan:And it's a dark tale of basically coercive control, domestic violence, betrayal. It's fascinating. It's three parts. I would recommend it. And that's it. That is what I've been doing. But the last thing I would say about that, actually, is just I feel really strongly that it does highlight the importance of investigative journalism and the fact that this tenacious journalist just wouldn't let it go. And therefore the family have been able to know the truth. And the policeman as well, who put his neck on the line to carry out the investigation. It wasn't in his jurisdiction, but he worked closely with this journalist.

7:10Jeffrey Dean Morgan:and ultimately, yeah, to the benefit of Katie's family who finally found out the truth.

7:15Lauren Lyle:Are you becoming more sort of desensitised to True Crime now? Is it not traumatising you quite as much now that you're having to watch so much of it?

7:21Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Well, do you know what I have realised? Because this one on Sky Documentaries about the show Jump and also the one from last week I talked about Poisoned, do you remember? I think that was Channel 4. When it's less about, you know, when it's less graphic, I mean, obviously these are very sad stories, but I think I can handle it more when it's not just horrific, you know bloody gruesome it's a different kind of horrifying crime

7:47Scott Gimple:I'm just going to give you more and more true crimes

7:49Jeffrey Dean Morgan:no thank you no no no all the true crimes the green light the green light

7:53Scott Gimple:has been lit

7:54Jeffrey Dean Morgan:no it has not it's very much been red full steam ahead no

7:57Scott Gimple:it's not I mean there's about nine true crimes next week true crime K that's what we call you no

8:02Jeffrey Dean Morgan:you're getting me confused with Steph

8:04Scott Gimple:no no no well when this old bastard goes on it's three weeks three-week holiday coming up in August, then, you know, we'll see what happens.

8:13Lauren Lyle:It's going to be two weeks, not three.

8:15Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Listen, do you know what it means, though? Obviously, I'll be, like, sad, yada, yada, that you're going. But, you know what it means? Steph, hopefully, will be available and then give the audience what they don't want, the basic bingers reunion.

8:25Lauren Lyle:Or maybe Steph will take what we, me and her, discussed last time, seriously, and she'll bang on about foundation in my absence now that she's watched it.

8:33Jeffrey Dean Morgan:You poor innocent. She's never going to do that.

8:35Lauren Lyle:You don't know that.

8:36Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I do. Very much so, we've had that conversation.

8:39Lauren Lyle:Oh.

8:39Jeffrey Dean Morgan:No, no, maybe she will. Maybe she'll prove me wrong. But either way, it will be fun, but you will be missed.

8:45Lauren Lyle:Thanks. Just to get that in there. That was in no way disingenuous. Thank you very much for that.

8:52Scott Gimple:Boydie. Well, I too watched The Couple Next Door and I found it very entertaining as well. Much better than Series 1. And yeah, a good time was had. It's kind of like, it's a romp. It's definitely a proper a thriller romp with loads going on

9:08Jeffrey Dean Morgan:it's just fun yeah

9:09Scott Gimple:it was fun so I enjoyed that I finished The Bear which I did talk about a little bit on the Pilot Plus I also finished The Bear ah there we go and we will do a spoiler chat next week next week we can't wait too long that's nine episodes for me to watch

9:24Lauren Lyle:there's so much there's a lot to discuss but general thoughts oh really

9:31Scott Gimple:well yes top level thumbs up or thumbs down having seen it all thumbs up yeah there's an incredibly emotional episode that I found devastating and I thought the finale was really clever what kind of went down there and you remember I've talked about there's one returning cast member who I absolutely love and I still can't say who that is you telling me now

9:52Jeffrey Dean Morgan:don't say it because I haven't watched it

9:53Scott Gimple:oh god anyway there's a returning cast member and it's absolute fucking joy to have that cast member back so much joy it spreads so much joy

10:03Jeffrey Dean Morgan:colour me intrigued one of my favourite

10:04Scott Gimple:supporting characters on television.

10:07Emer Kenny:What?

10:08Scott Gimple:Yes. Do you know who Ron Farrow into? I genuinely have no idea. Okay, we'll text him. None. Oh, wow. Okay. Don't say it out loud. Like, genuinely none. But there's a character that just arrives halfway through the series. Yeah. Yeah. That's who I'm talking about. There aren't that many other characters I'm guessing.

10:24Lauren Lyle:It just surprises me that you think that you can see him as the best supporting character on television. I'm a big fan of the actor and the character.

10:34Scott Gimple:and we talked about Needle Drops on Plus and this has got there's just so many fantastic Needle Drops the soundtrack the choices are amazing particularly the show must go on by Bruce Hornsby and The Rage as I mentioned as you sung which is back I did think a little bit of it Bruce Hornsby and The Rage most famous for The Way It Is do you remember that song this is the way it is da da da da da da yeah yeah that's what he's most famous for some things will never change exactly but this song which is the second time he's used it, The Show Must Go On, is a much better song. It's such a brilliant song.

11:09Scott Gimple:Six minutes of pure joy. Anyway, and the other thing I've been watching, which I knew I could watch willy-nilly, and with fresh in the knowledge, confident in the knowledge, we would not be doing it, covering it in this show here. Star Trek, Strange New Worlds.

11:22Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Is it Shark, Celebrity Infestive Waters? Oh my God.

11:25Scott Gimple:Well done. Oh my God. It is Shark.

11:27Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I know him so well.

11:28Scott Gimple:Celebrity Infestive Waters. Shark, by the way, officially in the title, because I checked, exclamation mark, is in capitals all capitals shot and I'm showing up like that wow is that Lenny Henry it's Lenny Henry they've got good names they've got Lenny Henry Lucy Punch it's a good panel listen mate in a tank with sharks not just Lenny Henry Lucy Punch from Amanda Land and they stuck her in what explain to me the format of the show come on the format of the show is seven celebrities including the go in how many come out spoiler it's five parts I haven't got to the fifth part yet so at the moment they're all fine so Lenny Henry Helen George from Call the Midwife Rachel Riley from Countdown Adi Adepitan McFly's bassist Doogie Pointer Massive bassist Yeah, Dougie An actual proper Dougie Doogie Dougie, probably I'm not doing that again, that's fine You get that wrong And comedian, an actual proper good comedian Ross Noble Ross Noble You know, it's an impressive line-up It is very impressive For any reality

12:28Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I mean, I would say the incentive probably is Bahamas But yeah

12:31Scott Gimple:Okay, they go to the Palmas, which is actually, this bit of the Palmas is the shark capital of the world, as are the most sharks. Hammerheads, other types, not great whites. Other sharks. Big sharks, little sharks. The great whites are the biggest. The one featured in Jaws was a great one. And by the way, the whole thing is part of the Jaws 50th anniversary. So it's commissioned specifically as a kind of, to commemorate 50 years since Jaws came out and how Jaws turned the whole world against sharks. They're all phobic, aren't they?

12:59Jeffrey Dean Morgan:They're scared of either water or sharks. Yeah.

13:01Scott Gimple:Well, particularly, I have to say, Helen George is literally scared of going in the water.

13:07Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah.

13:07Scott Gimple:Let alone, you know, ones with sharks in. And she's actually, like, in tears. Didn't she say something like,

13:14Jeffrey Dean Morgan:in the last 20 years, she's only been knee-deep in the sea before?

13:17Lauren Lyle:Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. That's actually where they're most likely to attack you.

13:19Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I would still sink in that level of water.

13:22Lauren Lyle:Just curiously, what happens? They stick them in a cage, they chuck them in the water. Is it a bit like, you know, the Jai Courtney film? you know, dangerous animals, where they just take them out and just chime in.

13:32Scott Gimple:There's no serial killer, but it's a bit like the Giacomo film. Yeah, they go into, there's various challenges, and it gets, so basically, they go in the cages, you know, the cage, and they're confronted by sharks, and what they do is, in the series, there's five parts of the series, they build up, so it starts with a smaller, nicer, cuddlier shark, and then as it goes on, you get bigger and more scary sharks to confront. A lot of cuddly sharks. No, I'm exaggerating. I'm using the word cuddly ironically. But it's very entertaining. Bull sharks, they're the ones, and tiger sharks.

14:03Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Can we just note, though, one of the experts who's given them a device. Oh, you've seen this already? Just a bit of the first episode. He himself was attacked by a bull shark and lost an arm and a leg. Oh, my God.

14:14Scott Gimple:He's had various bits of his body. But he's perfectly safe. He's totally pro-shark. Despite being attacked by one and having parts of his body, you know, lopped off by a fucking shark. He is a pro shark activist. Yeah, commendable slash insane. Who is educating and he is talking to them. But they didn't notice. So he reveals what happened when he was stuck by the shark and they're all sitting there and everyone's going, fuck me.

14:37Lauren Lyle:I was reading a piece recently about how, because obviously Bruce the shark from Jaws gets a lot of attention, but they actually used real sharks at various points. And there's a bit where a cage goes in the water with the sharks and they had a deliberately small cage to make the shark look bigger. And a stuntman was obviously going to go in the cage. and at the last minute the stuntman went I'm not doing this I'm just not doing it refused to do it they put the cage in the water and by all the cap they cut the shot tore the cage to pieces absolutely destroyed it so the stuntman would have been absolutely killed had they been in the cage so I read that I thought that's fascinating

15:10Scott Gimple:oh my god the cage is sometimes where that does not happen no I don't know who made this cage I think they've all made it out alive spoiler alert any injuries? I don't think so but as episodes go okay it could happen fingers crossed not but yeah it's incredible and ITV also showing a documentary about how Jaws changed the world as well culturally there's a whole Jaws fest have you ever been diving with sharks

15:33Lauren Lyle:either of you

15:33Scott Gimple:no I nearly went

15:35Lauren Lyle:I nearly went with Nicolas Cage because is that a joke no randomly no I didn't go in a Nicolas Shark Cage I spent a randomly five days in South Africa with Nick Cage or when he was doing Nick when he was making Lord of War and he was going shark diving with his stuntman and I was potentially going to, not like, oh, I'm going to hang out with, but I wanted to go as well to go shark diving. Because it was difficult to sync it up with my flights like I was doing on the weekend. But he was saying, when I spoke to him about how it went, he said that his stuntman kept like touching the shark on the nose.

16:12Lauren Lyle:He was trying to sync like, don't do that. Please don't do that. It's freaking me out.

16:17Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Bobbing it on the snot box. Yeah, exactly.

16:18Lauren Lyle:Bobbing it on the snot box, yes.

16:20Scott Gimple:He was booping the shark. But yeah, Yeah, Nick went to... Well, there was a certain amount of shark touching in this show.

16:26Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Nothing inappropriate. I mean, consensual. With full consent from the sharks.

16:29Scott Gimple:Yeah, no, just like, you know, stroking. Boy, please.

16:32Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah.

16:33Scott Gimple:Anyway, sharks, over to Infected Waters, ITV1, today, Monday, 14th July, 9 o 'clock starts. Wow. It's a lot of shark chat.

16:40Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Can I ask you when the documentary's on? Yes, you can ask me.

16:43Scott Gimple:The documentary's on, I think, the Sunday night, and they're showing Jaws as well itself. Oh, brilliant. So you've got a whole Jaws fest.

16:51Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Oh, loads of freak out. And there's the hour and a half,

16:53Scott Gimple:did I mention the hour and a half documentary about Jaws as well, which was on, which Stephen Spearwood, I think I mentioned that last week. But yeah, if you like Jaws, as I do, as any idiot, any fool. Agreed. One of the greatest films of all time. One of my favourites, it's in the top 30. One of your favourite films? Surely not. Oh my God,

17:12Jeffrey Dean Morgan:added to the other 100.

17:13Scott Gimple:Added to the list. Yeah. All right. Yeah, so you can't move for Jaws-based stuff going on this week, quite rightly, on television. Kate and James.

17:21Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I'm happy.

17:23Lauren Lyle:I watched The Bear, as you know, but we'll talk about that on Pilot Plus. I am still ploughing through smoke, as you said. I'm on episode seven, I think, at the moment, but I've watched a few other things as well. So I finished The Sandman. When I said finished The Sandman, I finished this first block of this final season of The Sandman. And it's one of these things where, like, I was talking to Helen about this, and she was like, it's like, it makes her feel a little bit icky watching it, but also she's really enjoying it, and it's annoyingly good, and so she's really struggling with that. But, I mean, yeah, I am enjoying it.

17:54Lauren Lyle:It's a lot of fun. I like that world. I like their character. It's, I don't think it's as good as the first season, but I'm having a good time with it. So, yeah, that's the sound, man.

18:02Scott Gimple:Talking of that kind of dilemma, I watched, I'm reviewing on Radio 4 later, the new film directed by Johnny Dapp. Oh. So, yeah. Oh. Yeah. Interesting. Shoes. That sounds savage or sauvage.

18:14Lauren Lyle:Exactly. Yeah. Guess what else I finished? Stranger Things. Oh, yeah, the rewatch. Finished season four. my rewatch is complete I have finished my rewatch of Stranger Things holds up yes I'm sure season 4 is good I still think season 1 is the best but season 4 is a banger it's really good stuff I like the Russia stuff less yeah that went on a bit but all the stuff with Vecna's really good the Kate Bush stuff you know the Master of Puppets it's really good and there's some real like you know there's some emotional beats in there as well it's got a really bleak ending I'd forgotten how bleak the ending is like it's quite you know harsh but yeah I'm really looking forward now to the end of Stranger Things this year

18:49Scott Gimple:when is it again

18:50Lauren Lyle:November I believe I think it's November I was going to say we haven't got long to wait I want to say it's like November and then pretty much like Christmas and then I want to say it's like New Year's Eve or something for the final one I think so it's scattered around the end of the year but looking forward to that the last thing I watched and I have to do a little bit of an about turn a little bit of a volt fast a cunning little reverse ferret on something I'm excited about this I have been wrong about a show wait what so I have to I've worked up right here right now I now admit to being wrong about a show that I watched, that all three of us watched, and largely dismissed, and it's better than we thought.

19:25Lauren Lyle:And that show, amazingly, improbably, is Ironheart on Disney +, which is the Marvel show that we reviewed, you know, with the metal suit, and the one she has a metal suit. Oh, with the young, the girl.

19:36Jeffrey Dean Morgan:If you recall, I didn't hate it like you guys did.

19:39Lauren Lyle:Do you know what? It's not bad. It's actually, now, okay, I'm going to say this. It's one of the better MCU TV shows. I don't think that bar is all that high I think there are some really good MCU TV shows but I think by and large most of them are a bit mid so I think you know but this I think actually was pretty decent I think it was an interesting so some interesting turns she remains quite spiky all the way through but actually you kind of get on with it it's quite interesting I found her quite an interesting character I think crucially she's not a hero she's a protagonist but she's not a hero and so she makes questionable choices but that's absolutely fine don't we all James?

20:16Lauren Lyle:Of course. Plus she... You're a hero and a protagonist. Thank you. You are indeed both. Thank you for recognising that. The hero we need, if not the hero we deserve. But I like that it also introduces a person. Sacha Baron Cohen is in this show. What?

20:34Scott Gimple:Oh yeah, I remember reading it in the cast.

20:35Lauren Lyle:But he's not in the first couple of episodes. He's a character who turns up a little bit later on. I wouldn't have normally said that he is in it, but I don't think his presence is now a secret. it's absolutely everywhere I'm not going to talk about who he plays although that is also everywhere on the internet No but I want to know who he plays Well I can tell you off air but I don't want to say it on here because I think it is a spoiler who he plays Unlike you boy

20:54Jeffrey Dean Morgan:James is not inter-spoilers

21:00Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Can you do my favourite Can you do your fake laugh?

21:04Lauren Lyle:Yeah Yeah and that sort of dimension of the show and who he plays and that kind of I thought was actually interesting also it ends in a an unexpected way. I, to be fair, think it probably ended in a way that we're setting up season two that we're never going to get. But I don't think, it's not like a cliffhanger. It has a conclusion. It's just a little bit unorthodox.

21:26Scott Gimple:I think they should have brought in Sacha Bancourt. Whoever the fuck is playing, they should have brought him in earlier.

21:30Lauren Lyle:No, I don't think you can. It's not in episode one. It works. He's not like a main character or anything like that. But his introduction, I think, changes the show in a way, which is quite interesting. But like I say, I thought it was actually decent. If you haven't watched it, if you were put off by us moaning about it give it a go it's actually not as bad as you think do you know what James

21:48Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I commend you A for carrying on with it but more importantly for admitting you were wrong

21:52Lauren Lyle:I was I was wrong but I think part of the reason why I was wrong was that I went in expecting it to not be very good because of the way they were clearly just throwing it out there and it had been so delayed and because let's be honest that character wasn't great in the film which was in Wakanda forever but there is you know there is more whereas Echo was the opposite Echo you were like no I'll give it a chance Echo might be okay and then it was like no it is just boring But this is a better show. It is a better show. We will never see a second season of it, but it is a better show. So yeah, Ironheart then.

22:23Lauren Lyle:Not terrible. James Dyer, Pilot TV. Good to know. Should we have a guest? Should we have two in fact? Let's have two guests. So The Walking Dead Dead City returned to Paramount Plus pretty recently actually. And if you know anything about us on this podcast, we heart Zomsies. So while they were in Cannes, I did not go to Cannes because our budget didn't allow it, But I did jump on a Zoom call with Negan himself, Mr. Jeffrey Dean Morgan, as well as Walking Dead Uber producer Scott Gimple. And we chatted all things Walking Dead and Negan-y. And this is what happened. Because how's the Quasette treating you?

22:55Lauren Lyle:How's Can?

22:56Emer Kenny:I mean, we just got here, but it's good, yeah? It is lovely. It's a beautiful day. My hotel, our hotel, there was this, like, storm door on my window. And I was like, man, I guess there's no windows in this room. Oh, yeah. And then I was like goofing around. I figured out how to open. Then it opens to this like beautiful view of the ocean. And I was like, okay, this is really nice. Yeah. I went from like a bunker in Lost to the beach.

23:27Lauren Lyle:Worst places to be doing press. Absolutely. I have to be saying, I love that Negan is back because I love Negan. Not because I think we'd be friends because we clearly wouldn't, but because he's such a great character.

23:38Emer Kenny:I think that we would be.

23:39Lauren Lyle:You think? Yeah. You think? Yeah, yeah. You feel that me and Negan would have a kinship. Absolutely.

23:44Emer Kenny:I feel like you have a sense of humor and you, Negan would find a rapt audience and we would giggle. Yeah. Do you know what? I mean, Negan, I would say that, oh, I'm not going to be friends with Negan. But then I remembered like Eugene and Negan were like, really? Maybe.

24:03Lauren Lyle:He's surprisingly personable for a man who likes to kill people with a bat, I think.

24:07Emer Kenny:Yeah. Well, I mean, God, I, I, I, my first response to that is, it's been so long since he's really killed people with a bat. Until maybe this year.

24:18Lauren Lyle:I've seen the first episode, you're fine.

24:21Emer Kenny:And killing people in new ways with a bat. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, he's been relatively tame, I think, for the last few years. In the whole scheme of, you know, the apocalyptic world, he's been... I don't know if Alpha would... Tame. Alpha might not agree. Alpha might agree. But how long ago was Alpha? A while. Not long ago. Yeah, that was a while ago. That was year eight or nine? That was definitely not year. That was like year 11. Was it 10?

24:49Lauren Lyle:Jesus Christ. I want to say started in nine. I want to say it started in nine. I mean, you guys probably know better than I do. Let's be honest.

24:58Emer Kenny:I am horrible at it. I just realized it's been either nine or 10 years that Negan's been around. Yeah, nine. Nine years.

25:05Lauren Lyle:Yeah, so I'm still trying to figure out where and how. But that's wild, right? Because it has been nine years. And I remember, obviously, that episode, which is kind of burned into everyone's memories because we'd heard about Negan for the whole of season six. And then we get to the finale and you have that introduction, which, I mean, it was quite divisive, right? Like, it made an impact, no pun intended. Like, it was quite a lot. And I just wondered how you guys, looking back on it now, like, what you think of that moment, looking back.

25:35Emer Kenny:I mean, look, I loved it Myself I don't know That's an interesting question I think more for you Because it was so decisive For the audience, obviously You know The cliffhanger of it all I thought it was brilliant storytelling Some people Are still mad at us about it Yeah Tell me justice for Glenn and I hear it too still like I had something to you know it I think it's what's interesting about it is it speaks to how the walking dead has bridged eras of television you know it it was basically basically pre-twitter that it began in fact the first iPad came out the first year that walking dead came out it's a very different time yeah um and i think people's especially with genre programming i don't know people the way people consume it there's a lot of an awareness of people watching it what's my take as i'm watching it which is a shame because you want people to lose themselves and then afterwards think about it um something is binary as a cliffhanger, which I don't know, I felt the end of Empire Strikes Back was a cliffhanger.

27:04Emer Kenny:But you can't do those anymore, I guess, the way that we consume television, right? Here it is. You can and you can't because you took my punchline. Oh, shit. Oh, no. I'm just going to say you're right, or at least you're agreeing with me. you know week to week television I still think is the best way to consume television obviously that's changed though and in some ways I think the day will come when you won't be that episode as well as the episode the last day of your last day or the season 16 season 6 finale I think both of those episodes have now benefited from the way people consume them.

27:51Emer Kenny:And I think people like them more. I think people who are coming to it for the first time don't have that weight, which I think some people felt that something was being taken away from them. and uh and then they get with the day will come when they won't be which you know it's incredibly intense power television people get to watch where that goes much more quickly you know that was to bring the heroes to their like lowest level the lowest level they'd ever been to on the show and the heroes are the avatars for the audience that's who they identify with so i'm thinking like well that'll be cool to put the audience through that adventure but some of the audience is like i go to the lowest place i've ever been and then spend a summer and yeah thanks for ruining my summer holidays guys really appreciated it but um but i think in in in you know the streaming of it all i don't think they mind going there because they're not going there for as long and they themselves get to have that feeling of of rising yeah um much more soon and you notice now even with streamers that they're starting to release stuff a week at a time It's not all at once anymore.

29:02Emer Kenny:It's true. Which I love. I think that that leads to community and that leads to people framing their lives. And, you know, we love our characters. We love Megan. We love Rick. We love Michonne. But to get them all at once and then they're gone. Yeah. To have them for like four months where they're part of your lives and then hopefully in success for years. It's a beautiful thing. I love the show The Bear. I think it's a great show. but if you ask me what happened last year i couldn't tell you because i consumed it in like

29:33Lauren Lyle:three days and that's a long time yeah i probably did it in 12 hours yeah so and there's a lot of walking dead to consume it has to be said but that's the only really the only reason we're doing it we're trying to stretch it out for people so but but just like that moment like so when when we meet negan like he's unlike anything we've seen on that show and anything else and there's something about him like suddenly early on the menace that he exudes is absolutely palpable but it's very it's like soft menace because he's funny and he's charismatic and he's smiling and he's friendly but he scares the living shit out of you in a way that it's almost kind of hard to put your finger on and i wondered what were the conversations you had about that and jeffrey what did you think was the key to kind of nailing that performance because obviously he's based very heavily on on kirkman's character he is in the comics but your spin on him is slightly different Yeah.

30:23Emer Kenny:Yeah. I think it was written so well. First, you know, Kirkman, obviously, in the graphic novel, I think, had Negan, you know, down so well. And then Scott would take that. And he helped me build the television version of Negan more than anyone. And a lot of it, I think, was based on that sense of humor, because I think if you're able to have a sense of humor while you're bashing someone's fucking head in, then it makes the audience, you can't get your feet. You know, you're always off balance. And I think that, especially when we first meet Negan, the audience is so off balance all the time because you don't know what he's going to do next.

31:11Emer Kenny:And I think I remember having conversations with Scott, you know, when I first joined the show. And it was kind of about that. And even like something as simple as The Lean, which became like this whole thing. I just remember seeing one panel that was in a comic book of Negan going back like that. I remember trying it on set with Andy, with Rick. And I remember him looking at me like, what the fuck are you doing? and he but in the in the course of the scene like him trying to figure out why is he doing that and then it became such kind of a fun tool to use whenever i would do this little lean because it just made everybody go what in the hell is happening why is he doing that um but it was it was that and i i give scott all the credit in the world because those especially those first few years Scott was there every second of the day with me and especially a character like Negan, it's kind of so important to come in and get it right off the bat because otherwise the audience will, you'll lose the audience.

32:17Lauren Lyle:Right off the bat.

32:18Emer Kenny:Right off the bat.

32:20Lauren Lyle:Right off the bat. That could have been the name of the episode. Oh, that would have changed

32:26Emer Kenny:history. A little bit too soon.

32:28Lauren Lyle:Never too soon. Guys, thank you very much indeed. It has been great to talk to you. I look forward to seeing the rest of the season. Thank you so much. Thank you, man. That was Geoffrey Dean Morgan and Scott Gimple. And it's time now for our listener question. Kay, what do you have for us?

32:43Jeffrey Dean Morgan:So this question comes from, actually, it's one of my favourites because it's a topic close to my heart and that's adverts. It comes from Kat. And she says, I live in an area surrounded by trees, so I can't get terrestrial television. Sometimes I actually miss adverts and how they would creep into our culture and vernacular. The way in which we consume media now has made adverts almost irrelevant, but at one point they could be as famous as the shows they interrupted. So, my question is, what are some of your favourite television adverts of all time? Did you love the old Tango ads or did you eagerly anticipate the next instalment of the Goldblend campaign?

33:19Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I may be showing my age with this question.

33:21Lauren Lyle:Oh, oh, Antti Stewart Head! Antti Stewart Head! Yes! I'd completely forgot. We talked about Buffy, didn't we, on Pilot Plus? I'd forgotten those existed. Oh my God. I watched one this morning. And he's sitting there going, mmm. Yeah.

33:33Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Sipping on his gold plate. In his bathroom. That's amazing.

33:37Lauren Lyle:The thing is, they're nostalgic in a way sometimes. I think even shows can't be. Because they've become cultural touchstones, some of these things. Like, you remember the Mission Impossible Squirrels advert for Carl in Black Label? Oh yeah. And it just played the music and it went on a little obstacle course again. And then, was it two owls or birds? Went, I bet he drinks Carl in Black Label. It's like, genius.

33:57Jeffrey Dean Morgan:On my list, okay, the Nicole. Papa. Nicole. Papa! Yeah. Which, along with, do you remember Duvin? No, Duvin, Dupin, Du Boussin. Do you remember the Boussin?

34:09Lauren Lyle:I actually don't remember that one, but it sounds great.

34:12Jeffrey Dean Morgan:James, you must do. Boy, do you? Did you call me? I called you James. I know, sorry. I can only apologise. Jesus Christ.

34:18Scott Gimple:Yes, of course I remember, yeah.

34:20Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Linda Bellingham in the OXO Gravy Granules ads. I enjoyed her a lot.

34:25Lauren Lyle:Because they were like little mini soap operas, weren't they? And they continued. like she's going off to university, her daughter or something like that, and then it's all just like hinges around them having gravy.

34:33Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, yeah. But my two favourite from, I think they're maybe the 80s, were, so there was the, I really wanted a bluebird kitchen. What's a bluebird kitchen? So it was like basically a toy kitchen. Oh yes, okay, fine. And there was this little girl, you go, wake up daddy, breakfast ready. And this really annoying giggle, right? Wow. And then she would serve up a Swiss roll. She's Scottish? No, it was just my terrible accent.

34:59Lauren Lyle:She's from somewhere up north.

35:00Jeffrey Dean Morgan:She served up this terrible looking breakfast of a Swiss roll with baked beans.

35:05Lauren Lyle:Sounds fabulous.

35:06Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, but I was obsessed. Do you know what?

35:07Lauren Lyle:I remember, in a little cup thing, you were like, that's not a breakfast. You were like, that's disgusting.

35:11Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, I remember that advert. But she did this weird giggle thing, and I was like...

35:15Lauren Lyle:I don't remember the giggle.

35:16Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Oh, yeah, well, I'll send you a clip, because I might have watched it this morning again. And the other one, and I won't do the accent, was the milk advert, Akerson Stanley. Do you remember that one? No. Acklington Stanley. Acklington Stanley. Who are they? Exactly. That was the... I apologize in advance. Do you know what? I never do accents to the podcast.

35:38Lauren Lyle:Stephen Graham, on behalf of the Pilot Cheapers podcast, I would like to apologize profusely.

35:42Jeffrey Dean Morgan:No, it's terrible. And that's why I don't usually do accents. But it just goes hand in hand with that advert.

35:47Lauren Lyle:Yeah.

35:48Scott Gimple:When I was on Channel 5's greatest TV advert. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. A couple of years ago. We discussed all of these, yeah. But the best ads, the best ad series in the late 70s, early 80s, definitively, is the one that featured Leonard Rossiter from Rising Down and Joan Collins.

36:08Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Was that for ketchup?

36:10Scott Gimple:No, Cinzano. Cinzano. It's a fuse with herbs and spices. And they would be these slapstick ads, which would be brilliantly timed. The best one was one where they're on a plane and she's sitting there and he plonks himself next to her and he lifts up. Basically, she somehow ends up with a glass of Chinzano all over her face. And there were about like 10, I think, all in all. And they were just so brilliantly done. The timing.

36:37Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Two legends. The delivery.

36:38Scott Gimple:Two legends. Zell Ross still one of the funniest comedy actors of all time. He was also bizarrely in 2001, Space Odyssey. And Joan Collins being a brilliant laugh about it. And they were so fantastic. And I remember so clearly, people would get excited about there's a new Chinzano ad on the way with those two and they won loads of awards and they are definitively the best fans.

36:58Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I thought it was ketchup because of the scene in Rising Damp where he either has or maybe HP Sauce where he's got the and he can't get it out do you remember in the restaurant he goes talking about being a dead soldier.

37:07Scott Gimple:Yeah. But actually Chinzano. Yeah. Yeah. The ad that was voted best advert of all time was the Wild Horses Guinness advert you know with the where the horses are coming up the sea. Leftfield. Yeah. With the Leftfield Museum and that's heard by Jonathan Glazer. Right. Right. Right.

37:23Lauren Lyle:legendary do you remember all the Levi's adverts that would all but each one of them it'd be like Babylon Zoo that spaceman one and then do you remember Flatbeat with Flat Eric there was a period of time I think it was in the early 90s or mid 90s probably where they would sort of launch something that would then go to the top of the chart some song

37:40Scott Gimple:well the famous Levi's ad was the Herd It Through the Gravevine with the guy who takes his jeans off in the laundromat yes to the laundromat

37:46Lauren Lyle:oh my god I'd forgotten about that as well

37:48Jeffrey Dean Morgan:also the Diet Coke man do you remember the Diet Coke break I wonder why

37:51Lauren Lyle:you remember that one

37:52Jeffrey Dean Morgan:No, but it was just a... Oh, yeah, the guy when the women are ogling him. Yeah, but also it just became part of the... You know, culture, everyone was saying, oh, are you having a Diet Coke break? Yeah, are you having a Diet Coke break?

38:00Lauren Lyle:Do you know what? This takes me back so much. And I think because I've not really been exposed to TV ads in like 20 years, I just have... I don't have any conception of that. Well, that was the point made by our correspondents. But I think me and you possibly more than most because...

38:17Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Because you're 100.

38:17Lauren Lyle:Because we're 1 ,000 years old, yeah. No, because people now watch streaming so they don't see ads. but obviously because we've been working in this industry a long, long, long time, we've been watching screeners now since like the year dot.

38:27Scott Gimple:Oh, but I'm like, no, no, no, don't lump me in with yours. Oh, okay, fine. I watch actual TV as well. Okay, see, I don't.

38:33Jeffrey Dean Morgan:He often says on Hear He, he stumbles across something when he's just watching TV.

38:37Scott Gimple:That is true. I watch actual live TV quite a lot. I haven't for years. But the point, mate, is absolutely true that it's much rarer now to have a full-on, very expensive, high-concept ad that kind of punches through into the culture as a whole. it's really rare now well the only time is once a year right

38:54Jeffrey Dean Morgan:the Christmas ads

38:55Scott Gimple:yeah the John Lewis ads do you remember

38:57Lauren Lyle:the really pervy Cadbury's Flake adverts yeah with the woman in the boat

39:01Scott Gimple:yeah they're in it oh in the bath there's one in the bath only the crumbliest

39:05Lauren Lyle:flakiest chocolate

39:05Scott Gimple:that was in the that was in honestly the show that I took part in I'm not just saying you're just shilling for the show now it was really good these are all in that show it was like a three hours is it still available for you it must be available on five

39:16Jeffrey Dean Morgan:well everyone should go check it out then clearly they should

39:19Scott Gimple:it's a brilliant nostalgia because there's loads of those. You remember Tango, the Tango ad drummer with the... These, then kids were, it was the one that slapped people in the face,

39:28Lauren Lyle:wasn't it? And then kids started doing it and they're like, okay, we need to stop this now. You're right, that did happen. The Daily Mail were furious about the whole thing. That's all discussed on the French.

39:34Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Melanie Sykes, Boddington, beer.

39:36Lauren Lyle:Was that with the widget? They had the widget. And remember they had that whole, yes, they had a series of ads which were just for like a weird thing and the widget was the thing that you put in your washing machine and it was like one of the little balls you put in the washing machine. Oh no, it's a yo-yo. And the whole thing was, it became, oh no, it's the widget in Boddington's beer, but they had loads of fake-out adverts saying what this widget thing was. Oh, really? That was a clever campaign.

39:56Scott Gimple:There's one for cabras with the gorilla playing, coming in the air tonight. Yes, Phil Collins. Phil Collins with the drum thing. I love that one. That was a big award winner. That's genius. It's one of the most garlanded ads of all time.

40:06Jeffrey Dean Morgan:How they train that gorilla is amazing.

40:08Scott Gimple:Oh, it's extraordinary. But funny enough, the flake one is one of the funniest ones ever, because if you think about it for more than one second, this woman is sitting in the fucking bath naked, munching on a bar of chocolate. Yeah. It's disgusting. You're wrong.

40:21Lauren Lyle:It's proper pervy. It's madness. And then it was replaced with that one. The bath one led to one where she's going down a river on a boat. Yes. Like semi-orgasmic while eating the flake. Completely. I mean, it's extraordinary.

40:35Jeffrey Dean Morgan:A brilliant question, right? It is a brilliant question because I loved all these things

40:38Lauren Lyle:and they are cultural artifacts. And part of me does think that not having these things now, you kind of miss out on it a little bit. I'm not saying like the Chew It dinosaur was, you know, high art or anything.

40:47Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I did like the Chew It dinosaur.

40:48Lauren Lyle:Yeah, but I like all these things because these are artefacts of my youth. And so they remind me of a very specific time. And now I have no connection to that world at all because I don't watch TV in that way and no one else does. Apart from Boyd.

41:01Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Umbongo?

41:02Lauren Lyle:They drink it in the Congo. Helen O 'Hara, Boyd's beloved Helen O 'Hara, says once when she was at university, one of her flatmates called the Congo. What? While drunk one evening to ask if they had Umbongo there. and apparently the phone bill was not a small one because you should not call the Congo I don't know what country they call presumably DRC but yeah exactly that

41:24Scott Gimple:yeah Britain's favourite TV ads of the 70s and 80s is available on 5.5 channel5.com two hours of absolute joy

41:32Lauren Lyle:well I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna so remember the cinema ones you would get as well so you'd get the the Lilt one where the guy goes it's total gridlock and he's sitting in the thing and you always get the same ads before a film always the same ads yeah yeah and then do you remember that Pearl and Dean Well, I mean, they still use that, don't they? Oh, yes.

41:51Scott Gimple:Yeah.

41:53Lauren Lyle:Iconic. But do you remember the series of anti-piracy ones? You wouldn't steal a car. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're hilarious.

41:59Scott Gimple:And there's a spoof of them on, I want to say,

42:02Lauren Lyle:what was the spoof of them on? Spaced, maybe? I can't remember, but it has been spoofed, I think, multiple times. But that was so ill-thought out that whole campaign. It was amazing, yeah. Yeah, completely. Oh, adverts, eh? Genius.

42:15Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Anyway.

42:15Lauren Lyle:fantastic question thank you for asking that more like that please that would be wonderful and thank you for writing in if you would like to send in an equally brilliant question the bar has been set high do send it to the email address pilot tv at empiremagazine.com

42:31Jeffrey Dean Morgan:James is refusing to pin it anywhere on social media absolutely not so you have to just remember it

42:35Lauren Lyle:yeah exactly it's like the TARDIS it kind of moves around it's hard to pin down indeed anyway anyway that was the listener question let's move on to this week's news. And the big news, I think, is that Slow Horses has been renewed for a seventh season. This before, of course, we get to see the sixth season. But I'm very pleased that it will be going on, frankly, forever because it is one of the best shows on television. And hooray.

43:00Scott Gimple:Yeah, it was the big news, yeah. And the seventh season is going to be adapted from the Bad Actors novel in the, if you watch, if you're up to date with the Mick Harron books that they're based on. Have you read it yet? No.

43:12Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Maybe I'll just borrow it from you. I can't

43:14Lauren Lyle:I love the show so much I could not lessen my enjoyment of the show by reading the books even though I'm sure the books are wonderful so for me I'm all about the show now I might read them all once the show's done

43:26Scott Gimple:but until then I'm not touching them well I'll tell you what the story do you read what the story is? tell me in season 7 Lamb and his slow horses slow horses slow horses yeah they're on the hunt to find and neutralise a mole at the heart of British government before they can bring down the state. Sounds wonderful.

43:46Lauren Lyle:Love it.

43:47Scott Gimple:Come here for it.

43:48Lauren Lyle:Every season, really. Do you know what? It doesn't even matter what it's about. If it was like Lamb and his team of slow horses go to WH Smith to get a packet of crisps, I'd be like, do you know what? I'm fucking there. Give me that over six hours.

43:59Scott Gimple:WH Smith, that date's true as well.

44:01Lauren Lyle:Well, because they've been bought out and renamed. But WH Smith travels still exist, Boidy, I think you'll find.

44:07Scott Gimple:Still at the airport.

44:08Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Who was in mourning after Willys' shutdown?

44:11Lauren Lyle:Willys?

44:12Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Willys. Woolworths.

44:13Lauren Lyle:If willies have shut down for UK, that's something for a different podcast. Woolies were a while ago as well. How long ago is that? Yeah, willies have not been around. They're still around in Australia and stuff, aren't they? Australia. Australia. I think they get willies in Australia.

44:26Scott Gimple:It's like, what's the one in CNA? Oh, CNA. It's still around in Spain, in Barcelona. There's a CNA in Barcelona.

44:34Lauren Lyle:Now you're going to tell me BHS endures somewhere as well. Well, probably. Probably does. Yeah, maybe. Who knows? Fiji. In Fiji, yes, you can get it in Fiji. What else is happening, Kay?

44:45Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Code of Silence. It's been picked up for a second series. So that was the Rose Ayling Ellis drama, do you remember? She played a deaf canteen worker working for the police. Yes, yes, yes. And yeah, it's coming back because it just got such a great audience and critical response. So I'm happy about that. I enjoyed that one.

45:00Lauren Lyle:Did neither of you watch the trailer for The Morning Show?

45:03Scott Gimple:Yeah, absolutely did, yeah. Those of us who have not been given The Morning Show screeners. I didn't watch it because I didn't really feel I needed to having watched the series.

45:10Jeffrey Dean Morgan:The smug-o-meter is just absolutely off the charts now.

45:14Scott Gimple:Yeah, it's painful, the amount of smugness. But I did watch the Morning Show season four teaser, which as Variety accurately described it, Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon strut past freaky cast reflections. Which is exactly what happened. Strut past? Strut past freaky cast reflections. What does that mean? Because that is a description of the trailer. Have you watched it? I haven't watched the trailer. So in the trailer, have you watched it?

45:39Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I watched the first few seconds.

45:41Scott Gimple:In the trailer, the two of them are kind of walking down the street and then looking into glass windows. And in the other side of the window is other characters in the show. Oh, so it's not because of look at them and stare at them.

45:52Lauren Lyle:It's a weird sort of teaser artifact.

45:54Scott Gimple:Yeah, it's a conceptual ad. It's not just clips on the show. I thought you said consensual.

45:58Jeffrey Dean Morgan:It's consensual and conceptual.

46:00Scott Gimple:Yeah, so you see kind of glimpses of the other characters in the reflections. And then it says, who can you trust? How can you know what's really real? blah, blah, blah. We have to question everything that we hear now more than ever. They kind of all say stuff like that. So yes, at first the windows only show Alex and Brad's reflections, but soon they morph into reflections of other characters on the show. Like Mark Duplass, Brittany Crudup. I love Billy's character. Yeah, yeah.

46:25Jeffrey Dean Morgan:He might be one of my favourites.

46:27Scott Gimple:Jon Hamm is back, apparently. Yes, he is. Who would know? I can tell you he's back. Yeah. Greta Lee is stellar. Greta Lee is one of the best cast members. And the other new cast member is... Who? Boyd Holbrook. What? Yes. Yes. Another Boyd. Yeah. It does exist. He plays a character called Bro. There you go. Yeah, well, I wouldn't know, James. I mean, I would. I know you would. I can't wait for it to come back.

46:53Jeffrey Dean Morgan:When is it back, Boyd?

46:54Scott Gimple:Jeremy Irons is in it as well. Aaron Pierre, William Jones. When is it back? It is back, Kay, on the something of September.

47:02Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Okay.

47:02Scott Gimple:Yeah. I mean, James should know that, really. He should be our correspondent.

47:06Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Apple should cut him off at the source, then, if he's not remembering the TX. What? Cut me off the sauce.

47:10Lauren Lyle:Yeah, no more apples for me.

47:11Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah. If he's not remembering the TX details.

47:15Lauren Lyle:Anyway. That's all the news. Yes, I can't say whether it's good or not, but I'm sure people will enjoy it when it arrives. Oh, God. Let's talk about the Big Bang Theory. So, the Big Bang Theory has had the young Sheldon spin-off, which has been inexplicably popular. And there's another one, which I think is called Stuart Fails to Save the World. And this is Stuart, the, I want to say, comic store guy. I've got an interesting question for this. So I don't know how involved either of you are in any of the Big Bang shows, but they were hugely popular, and the spinoffs are now still hugely popular, and yet it seems to be an artifact of modern hate, all things Big Bang theory.

47:50Lauren Lyle:Like, people detest, despise, and loathe it. So how can it be universally hated, and yet also, apparently, really popular?

47:59Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Is it universally hated?

48:00Scott Gimple:I don't think it's universally hated.

48:01Lauren Lyle:Well, let's just say any dialogue around it you will ever see on the internet is always overwhelmingly negative.

48:06Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Well, that's like, and just like that.

48:08Lauren Lyle:But with good reason.

48:10Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying it...

48:11Lauren Lyle:And just like that, I think everyone concedes as a hate watch, right? Yeah, and it's still getting made. Yeah.

48:17Jeffrey Dean Morgan:So it's the same.

48:18Lauren Lyle:But I'm not sure this is a hate watch, as it were.

48:20Scott Gimple:I don't think this is up there as a hate watch. I think people... The one that's... The creator, what's his name? Chuck Lorre. Yeah. Chuck Lorre's done lots of other much worse series, I think, than The Big Bang Theory. You know, he's done some absolutely terrible stuff. in his time, two men and a... Two and a half men. Two and a half men.

48:41Lauren Lyle:Two men and a scuba. And a quarter. Four and a half men. Something about men and a half. Some kind of maths equation. It's very confusing. That show was a disgrace.

48:52Scott Gimple:Again, really popular though. Yeah, massive. I mean, at one point, Chuck Lorre was like the saviour of American comedy television, right? And all his shows were massive hits. But I remember thinking that the Big Bang Theory was one of the least derided of all his shows. At one point, it was the biggest show on American TV. And by the way, it was also the biggest show on E4 here. Remember, it was on E4 in the UK and it was their biggest, biggest hit. And basically, at one point, E4 turned into like a channel that showed purely that show, pretty much, because it was guaranteed every episode would be a hit.

49:28Scott Gimple:But I never found that show. It wasn't how he watched it for me. I wasn't obsessed with it, but I would enjoy it.

49:33Lauren Lyle:I watched maybe like four or five seasons of it and actually gently enjoyed it.

49:37Scott Gimple:Yeah, I don't think it was as much of a hate watch as other shows. I remember my nephew being one of the first shows that my nephew really liked, like American... Then they got into Friends, him and his sister got into Friends and other kind of American sitcoms, but he really liked that show. What's it called again?

49:56Jeffrey Dean Morgan:What the fuck is happening? Oh, God, I think he's called it Royal.

50:02Scott Gimple:At least I can pronounce it in a name more than once. Wow!

50:06Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Boyd, do not come for me.

50:08Lauren Lyle:You started it, can't you? It's all getting hostile in the news section.

50:12Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I think news is done.

50:13Lauren Lyle:Right, okay. Are we calling time on news? Yes, we are. It's probably for the best, actually, because we've got a load of guests and we don't want this to become a bloated podcast full of rambling nonsense. Too late. Too late indeed. Too late by nearly 350 episodes, but never mind. Let's move on then to our next set of guests. And the next duo are Emma Kenny and Lauren Lyle, the writer and star respectively of Karen Perry, which returns to ITV for its second series on Sunday, Sunday the 20th of July. And this is once more based on the novels by Val McDermid. Boydie took the opportunity to chat with them all about it.

50:47Lauren Lyle:So this is Boydie talking to Ema Kenney and Lauren Lyle.

50:50Scott Gimple:Ema Kenney and Lauren Lyle, welcome to the Pilot TV podcast. I'm pretending that we haven't just done like half an interview and which was a privilege. I mean, I like to keep these things open and, you know, let's not hide behind a veil. I requested it.

51:03Emer Kenny:It wasn't good enough. I requested it, I wanted to do it again. Rerun. Exactly.

51:06Scott Gimple:So now I'm going to start with, Ema, you are effectively showrunner of this show. Was it hard at the second time around to adapt this particular novel from Val McDermid, or was it easy because you knew the characters, et cetera?

51:19Emer Kenny:Well, it's an interesting question. I think I didn't find it easier. I think it's always hard. Writing is always hard. But in some ways, I think knowing that people liked it and knowing that it all went okay was kind of encouraging. Although it was a little daunting because I think at the same time there's a kind of difficult separate album element to that because you want to match what you did. And that kind of felt like there was a little bit of magic to the first season because it was our first time, both of us kind of leading something. So you just hope you can get that back. But it was really fun, this one, because in some ways it was a little bit less dark because there isn't a sort of murdered girl at the centre.

52:07Emer Kenny:It's a kidnap story. And I think that gave me licence to be a bit bigger and more epic with the hooks. And it's a little more twisty and kind of plotty, I would say. So, yeah, hopefully people will like it again.

52:23Scott Gimple:Oh, they will. They will. I can guarantee. And it does feel bigger because I guess because intrinsically you've got the kidnap victim, if you like is a daughter of a wealthy family and you've got so you've got big lovely interiors and grand design houses and even even the police station even your your area if you like where your work area is much bigger and more grand isn't it this time oh my god yes thank you for noticing

52:50Emer Kenny:yeah that's what you were writing it's the penthouse suite of the police station yeah it is it's fun to play karen in a place where she's sort of not quite sure why she's been given all this authority and she is now the boss and having about 30 extras but actually all standing in a room as your team who are all actually looking at you going you have to be good now in front of us be good at acting and also be interesting to listen to um was uh like at living like living art living life um it was it was really fun um yeah it feels like a step up this series for the character um she's sort of been fighting for authority for the first series and to be taken seriously and then because she had quite great success she now has to match it again on an even bigger case that kind of has world renown and a lot of pressure from the press so um the bar is

53:39Scott Gimple:high and she's got to reach it but she still kind of has a quite a kind of i would say a slightly dismissive attitude towards her some of her colleagues and maybe even her her secret lover

53:50Emer Kenny:as well who of course doesn't want him no one to know absolutely no one's allowed to know anything I think there's this thing about Karen being this sort of reluctant boss and she's very good at it but has no idea what to do with the authority that she's now been given and has for so long probably wanted. And I think, I don't know, that sort of stuff is quite fun, playing, like having a load of men around you that you're getting to pie off all the time or be sarcastic with. I'm often told on set that my notes are often, okay that was like the 200 version let's like bring it down and then like we were saying earlier emur's and the exec as well and so the director will quite often just go to emur and say can you just go and talk to her can you just you speak the same language you give her the note um and it's a good shorthand now we've really good and we've also both experienced what can's experience where you sort of are leading something for the first time you're having to be in a position of power that you haven't been in before you've wanted that we we say to each other all the time we prayed for this we prayed for these and now they're here and it's hot yeah it's actually really it's a lot of pressure and you're constantly reminded that there's millions of pounds on your shoulders of a ship and you're not allowed to be sick um but uh getting to getting to sort of um play that out with karen has been a sort of parallel life that we've both done it together um and it's quite nice to grow up with a character where you're not trying to like jump in age she's still sort of like late 20s dealing with um something that feels quite unfathomable and I really loved this season the thing that kind of got me quite excited was that this case is supposed to be not like a Scottish case it's this global I don't know if you're allowed to say it's like almost like for me a reference I kind of thought of was like Madeleine McCann that this back in the 80s someone went missing that was this huge oil tycoon's daughter and we just have no idea what happened to her yeah it's quite similar to the John Paul Getty story, the kidnappers.

55:49Emer Kenny:So it really captures the attention of the world. And therefore, it's Karen has a lot of eyes on her as she's trying to solve this case.

56:01Scott Gimple:What were the particular challenges of adapting this novel, this film or film novel? Is this like a more complicated job in terms of like, just the technicalities? You did the jumping back and forward and timelines in series one, but it feels even more ambitious this time

56:15Emer Kenny:around oh really do you think so i yeah i think um I mean, two timelines and sort of two hour episodes, they're like, they're kind of like feature films. And the unique challenge is that you can't, like, reveal something in the past that Karen doesn't really know because you want her to feel like she's on the case always. So it's intricate. But hopefully that also means that it's quite satisfying and unusual. People talk about the format to be quite unusual. I think Sherlock was someone that used to do it. And how it's maybe... Prime Suspect. Prime Suspect. Which is, I find, a great touchstone because it's got that really amazing central female character as well.

57:08Emer Kenny:Yeah, and we call them, they're literally called film, scripts are called film one, film two, film three. And I always love that as an actor to think of it as like one huge epic story pair thing. it's not like there's something about not crunching it down to one episode and then jumping and then jumping you really get to breathe with it um and there's something very satisfying about it and also the way people watch tv now you don't just watch one episode do you end up venting it all

57:33Scott Gimple:yeah it feels yeah but even three two-hour episodes obviously like 90 minutes with that i guess but still yeah it does feel like a huge you can really immerse yourself in it massively yeah um karen there's a very funny but i want to talk about the music a little bit you start off with um Promised You a Miracle by Simple Minds, one of my favourites. Do you, who chooses the music, those music cues? Do you get involved in that?

57:52Emer Kenny:Some of them are in the script, yeah. I can't remember what the song is at the beginning of ep 2. But that is...

57:58Scott Gimple:There's Two Tribes by Frankie Gossard. Yes, there's Two Tribes.

58:00Emer Kenny:Yeah, so that is from, that was in the charts at the time. And so I was looking for a song that felt, and I wanted it to feel a little bit sinister, but also poppy, like you could dance to it. So I was listening to that over and over again as I was writing. I always like to find these kind of tracks that you hook on. Because in the first series, I think it was, was it Rhythm as a Dancer? Or it was a 90s track. And I love putting it on and getting into the time zone of it. So yeah, the music is really fun. I picked some of them and then Gareth picked some, the director. And Simon Heath, who's the exec, is a massive muso.

58:37Emer Kenny:He really cares about music. So he has a big influence on it as well. but yeah it's really important to the show that we get it right

58:46Scott Gimple:Lauren there's a brilliant scene in episode two I think where you're in the car on your own and you're driving and you kind of like suddenly you're listening to like some heavy metal music and you go crazy basically it's a fantastic moment how was that to film and what was that song because that was like that's a mad

59:04Emer Kenny:I don't know what that is was this from series one or from series two it's series two but you actually did that scene without any music on yes i'm back it's nothing you ever want to do to a room of like 70 people that's screaming into a car that was shot in a studio on a like a deck we were in the car and the way they shoot those scenes i don't know if you're familiar or if listeners are familiar you literally have four people on each corner of the car shaking the car to make it look like it's moving. And then you're there pretending to drive and having to look like you are driving. LED screens around you trying to look like the backdrop.

59:46Emer Kenny:And then they all kind of go, okay, right, if you just don't. But you take your own time. That's absolutely fine. And you just have to go mad. And I just was like, just let it run for a bit and I'll just go mad. With no music on there. Like nothing. It didn't even put like a replacement track. I think at some point I was going, da-da!

1:00:05Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, yeah.

1:00:05Emer Kenny:my own track in my head but no that is that's a difficult one to do we should find out it's like some mad heavy metal it's a proper heavy metal

1:00:16Scott Gimple:that was in the script

1:00:19Emer Kenny:it was heavy metal because me and Lauren have a secret thing that we think Karen Ferry is a drummer yeah yeah yeah I've never been in the script when I have a drink I tell people that I was born to drum I like to ear a drum and I was like, I really think Karen is a drummer. I hope that's how she does.

1:00:38Scott Gimple:Oh, yeah, definitely.

1:00:38Emer Kenny:Maybe Series 3, she's in a shed with a drummer.

1:00:41Scott Gimple:Yeah, you've got to bring in a drum kit in Series 3, I think.

1:00:43Emer Kenny:I think to do scenes like that, you just have to have delusional confidence that it somehow will look good and someone will tell you if it doesn't look good, so you just have to go for it. That's acting one of them. Yeah, it totally works.

1:00:54Scott Gimple:It's a lovely little insight into her personality. Yeah, it's brilliant. How involved does Val McDermott get? I saw a picture of her on set, visiting the set and stuff. Do you talk to her a lot about the process or does she leave you to it pretty much?

1:01:09Emer Kenny:Kind of a mix. I mean, she definitely contributes. She reads the scripts. She tells me what she thinks. We check in with her about things, particularly about the character. She's a little bit looser about plot because obviously every series is different and she really cares about the character. And then she visits set. She comes down. She loves Lauren as Karen. So that's really great to know that she's really like, thanks i never energy yeah i never tend to get the first time i ever met val i said to her i was like how's the accent send edinburgh east coast enough and i really thought she'd written me to shesna from glasgow and she was like oh no it's fine i think that's all i'm gonna ever get from val yeah um but she's been nothing but wonderful i get i she messages me saying how much she loves it she i got lovely messages when she saw first cuts and she was just thrilled.

1:01:58Emer Kenny:And so she kind of just leads you to it a lot of the time. Yeah, she does understand that the mediums are really different. And so she's quite respectful of like, she is a genius novel writer. And so, but the TV writing is completely different. So it's just like, you know, we just kind of, she trusts me, which is really nice. Yeah.

1:02:18Scott Gimple:Ema, you appear in the show as well, of course. And you have attempted to, you know, expand your role and kind of give her a grand, you know, subplot of her own?

1:02:29Emer Kenny:I feel like, actually, no, I wrote in this series that Karen and River get trapped in a cave together and it starts filling with water. And for budget reasons, we weren't allowed to do that. I was so excited. But we were so excited to build that. Instead, they sort of go in a cave. That was something to come out again. Sometimes I do get carried away with those kind of plots. at the end of the day, I am held back by what is right for the story. Yeah. And I am respectful of that. So, you know. I also don't know where you would eat, sleep, and breathe. Yeah, it's too much. You have a lot to do already.

1:03:04Emer Kenny:And this time I had a baby as well. So I really do pop in and out to say hello. You're there constantly. You are there. On screen. Oh, right. On screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't expect it. I love it personally. I love you having a baby. On screen you have pop in and out. I'm behind the camera breathing down her at all times but at the same time, if you ask a single question, it could be the most specific bizarre question about why the rock has been put there, she'll have the answer actually, Lauren voice notes me in the middle of the night like, why is this line and she's even finished the voice note, she's got one back

1:03:38Scott Gimple:on top of everything else that you have to deal with, you have to deal with that as well the voice notes

1:03:42Emer Kenny:that happened from season one before you ever had a baby in there I'll have it stopped

1:03:47Scott Gimple:Okay. Have they pushed you over the edge at all into, you know, like proper losing it ever? You know, when you get those voice notes.

1:03:53Emer Kenny:Me or Laura?

1:03:54Scott Gimple:Yeah, you, Emma. Yeah.

1:03:55Emer Kenny:Oh, yeah. I've lost it. I follow an Instagram, obviously.

1:03:59Scott Gimple:And I've seen those moments where you're like, yeah, things are getting a lot now, you know, should we say.

1:04:04Emer Kenny:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, this time, so I was in Glasgow with my toddler. My husband was in Germany covering the Euros. So I had to bring my mum and I was, you know, writing, shooting, acting, trying to mother. It was absolutely insane. But I love the game. Normally, you would just send a voiceover back and say it. It would often just be, this is mad. Or I say mad. And I'll be like, good to know. It's okay.

1:04:32Scott Gimple:Well, I have to say you've pulled it off. It's, it's, congratulations. Yeah. I loved the second series. It's great. Thank you. And thanks so much for talking to us. Thank you.

1:04:40Emer Kenny:Thanks. So thanks.

1:04:41Lauren Lyle:Okay, time now for this week's reviews. And this week we're going to begin with Too Much on the Netflix. And this is the latest series from Lena Dunham and stars Megan Stalter as a New Yorker in London and Will Sharp as the terribly helpful Londoner who agrees to show her around. Boydie, in a flagrant violation of this show's prime directive, I have a strong, strong, strong suspicion that you've already shared your thoughts on this show. Ooh. Yeah, that's right. So I'm inclined to ask Kay what she thought of it because I already know what you think of it.

1:05:14Jeffrey Dean Morgan:No, Gordon, I want to hear,

1:05:14Scott Gimple:where did you expose yourself? On this very podcast, I alluded to the fact that I'd seen a show. A thinly veiled, a thinly veiled illusion. I said a show that comes out, and I said what date it comes out, but I didn't name it, I didn't name it. We all knew, we all knew.

1:05:27Jeffrey Dean Morgan:What did he say?

1:05:29Lauren Lyle:I believe he spoke very highly of it.

1:05:31Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Oh, Gordon, you go first.

1:05:33Lauren Lyle:Go on then, Boydie.

1:05:34Scott Gimple:Okay, I'm not in the pocket of big, too much. You are too much. No, I've watched, what I said was, I've watched the whole thing. So I watched all ten episodes.

1:05:44Lauren Lyle:This is his way of saying that if we've only watched one episode,

1:05:47Scott Gimple:we don't get to say we don't like it. Let me make it quite clear from the start. This is a show you need to watch all of. No, you need to watch a lot of. You need to watch ten hours of it to have an opinion. I mean, you certainly need to watch more than the first episode to have a valid opinion in any way whatsoever. Okay, I'm sure you'll agree with that. We can all agree you need to go past the first episode. But honestly, this is a show that has, ostensibly this is Lena Dunham of Girls' Fame, kind of very fond tribute to the romantic comedy genre. She loves her romantic comedy. It's actually produced by Working Title, who made all the Richard Curtis romantic comedies and others.

1:06:27Scott Gimple:And they are like the experts, obviously, on romantic comedy. So this is almost like a marriage of Lena Dunham's sensibility with the romantic comedy Working Title. And I should say, I love Working Title romantic comedy. So there are lots of allusions to those. Out and out discussions. At one point she goes to Notting Hill to look at the front door, the blue front door that was in Notting Hill. It was Richard Curtis' house. Exactly. So there's loads of that in there. But it's very much from the Lena Dunham sensibility that we know and love from girls. I know and love from girls. And I think Girls, by the way, is one of the best shows of recent years.

1:06:59Scott Gimple:I think it's an absolutely, to use that terrible word, iconic show, which I think a lot often gets disregarded or not included in critics' picks list or those lists. I think, I know it sounds lame to say, but partly because she is a very successful woman who created this fucking show. You know, when male showrunners and creators get recognised for their big shows about maverick men, all of those shows, girls often get forced by the wayside. But for me, it's one of the best shows of recent times. And it's, you know, one of the things it was brilliant about was its depiction of the ups and downs within relationships.

1:07:33Scott Gimple:so within the kind of rom-com format in this particularly as it goes on as you make it past the first episode which has got the meet-cute they literally meet-cute the main character the protagonist Jess Jess played by Megan Stalter Kayla from Hacks meets Will Sharp of course from season 2 of The White Lotus another brilliant stuff that he's done and she meets him she goes to a pub she's kind of fairly she's literally almost on the first day she arrives in London She's left New York because of a bad breakup that happened there. And she meets Will Sharp's character, who's like an indie musician.

1:08:09Scott Gimple:He's in a band. And they kind of bond very quickly. He kind of walks her home. And he meets her kooky dog, which is an extraordinary creature. I mean, can you describe it as a dog? I think it's the dog from Deadpool. It is very similar, if not the dog from Deadpool, exactly, with the tongue kind of hanging out by the side, which is inherently funny. She puts in an outfit similar to her own. She wears colour-coordinated. It's a bit clueless like that. Yeah. She wears colour-coordinated outfits. Now, and this was co-created by Lena Dunham with her actual indie British musician husband, Louis Felber.

1:08:43Scott Gimple:So there's a lot of autobiographical elements of it in terms of it's about, you know, dating a guy in London and who happens to be a musician, blah, blah, blah. But she said that she wanted to create a character that was different enough from her so people wouldn't assume this character is her. And sure enough, I think, because she cast Megan Stalter, who I think is hilarious and brilliant, she's got a different vibe to Lena Dunham's vibe and Lena Dunham plays her sister in it and in the beginning of the thing you meet her kind of dysfunctional, fairly dysfunctional family including Dunham as her sister but what I thought was what I absolutely loved about this series is that I love the romantic comedy element of it and I think they're both a really interesting couple who are both funny and beautifully observed and engaging and you care about them very quickly Now, I think Megan Stalter's character, I think, is a bit Marmite-y.

1:09:34Scott Gimple:I think, funnily enough, I was talking about... A bit too much? A bit too much. Right, now I was talking about this to people I met last night at this bookish dinner I went to. A couple of people who'd seen it, who'd seen more of the show than the first episode. And they were talking about... One person said they just couldn't stand her as a character. It was too much. But of course, that is literally the point of the title. She's playing a big woman who is kooky and eccentric. and is full on and just makes no apologies about being full on and some people I can see would take against her as a character.

1:10:07Scott Gimple:She's quite an acquired... I feel attacked. Right. Oh, yeah. Right? I wait to see what James thinks. But she's a lot and it's all about a person like that and how, you know, who's uncompromising and, you know... But I thought she was hilarious. I think she's really, really funny.

1:10:22Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I mean, are you describing James?

1:10:23Scott Gimple:Not in the character. No, I don't. We'll see what James thinks of the character any minute now and I have my own clues. with expression on his face right now. So I can see, I think for people, some people might have an issue with it, and I get that. I totally get that. But I think the more you watch of it, the more of her three dimensions you recognize. And she's actually a much more subtle and well-drawn and authentic figure than you might think from the opening scenes where she arrives in the airport with clutching the dog, both wearing pink fluffy outfits, right? And what I would now, here's my non-spoiler alert.

1:11:00Scott Gimple:is episode five. So this is a show which is like mostly, to start off with certainly, it's in the girls format, a comedy. Most episodes are around the 30, 35 minute mark. Then you get to episode five, which is an hour long. And episode five, and I'm not going to spoil it, but it is a game changer. And it depicts a situation that is much more dramatic and painful, I would go as far as to say, than henceforth you would have seen in the build up to that episode in the first four episodes, which are fairly comedic, romantic, whatever, as you get into know the characters. And that, I think, episode five is one of the episodes of the year.

1:11:36Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Oh, wow.

1:11:37Scott Gimple:It's astonishing. It's incredibly well done. It's one of the best depictions of what it's about. I'm not even going to say what it's really about.

1:11:44Lauren Lyle:Look at him, respecting spoilers.

1:11:46Scott Gimple:It's one of the best depictions of what it's about I've ever seen in anything ever, in a film or TV or anything. Do they watch Star Trek? It's not about them watching Star Trek. Okay. But imagine if it was. The best depiction of them watching it and how it affects them would be... It would make me carry on. Yeah, there you go. But I would urge people to get to that because then you'll be like, oh, my God. And then what carries on after, there's another episode. It might even be six or seven, which deals with another character's story. And it's kind of... But basically the show starts to kind of very confidently lose the format of the 30-minute comedy and tells stories and takes time and lives and breathes to tell the backstories of its various characters in a really convincing, authentic, and often emotional way.

1:12:34Scott Gimple:It's much more emotional as it goes on than you think it is in the beginning. So I got to the end. I watched it all within about a day and a half. And I think it's one of the shows of the year. It's definitely shot into my top 10 for sure. and I think all of Lena Dunham's expertise is in this show and I think she's got I think she feels she's got more freedom and confidence to do what she wants to do and with the characters and to say what she wants to say about various things and she does that brilliantly and she's got

1:13:03Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I don't think she's at a different stage in her own life

1:13:05Scott Gimple:absolutely yeah it's kind of more mature that is one of the things it is I think as much as I love girls and I do say it's a brilliant achievement this does feel like a more mature thing and maybe even better than girls and I absolutely love girls and the funny thing I wanted to mention the cast the supporting cast I mentioned this when we were it was named Rita Wilson Rhea Perlman Andrew Rannells from Girls you recognise Stephen Fry Richard E. Grant Leo Reich Leo Reich is an upcoming gay comedian who had a special he had his own show which I think is on Sky Comedy and he is he's one of her colleagues and he's fucking hilarious he's absolutely brilliant he's phenomenal

1:13:45Jeffrey Dean Morgan:a cameo from Jessica Alba

1:13:46Scott Gimple:Jessica Alba Andrew Scott, Jennifer Saunders, Jennifer Saunders, absolutely hilarious in a later episode, Kit Harington, Rita Ora, Naomi Watts, Emily Ratajkowski, and Jessica Albert, as you previously mentioned. She gathers the, but they've all got, these aren't just like gratuitous cameos. All of those incredible stars have juicy, brilliant, juicy stuff to do. Andrew Scott, oh my God, his character, I won't say more, I won't spoil it. He's fucking brilliant and really, really funny and interesting. So yeah, I love the show. And I make no apologies about it. James. Clearly.

1:14:19Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, go on, James.

1:14:20Lauren Lyle:So when we were in the office and before we did this podcast, I outed Boyd to the Empire team as having broken the cardinal rule of the podcast, which was by implying how much he loved the show. And I said, you're not supposed to do that. He didn't name it, though, to be fair. Alex Godfrey of the Empire podcast said, oh, what did you watch? And we said, oh, it's too much. And Alex went, I saw that. It's rubbish. But he'd only seen one episode. He'd only seen one episode. and I think I'm in a I'm not in I'm not going to necessarily say it's rubbish but I I share Alex's reaction to it in that I did not find it remotely funny which for me is I mean come on admittedly admittedly that's not unusual for me but what's disappointing is like that kind of oeuvre that sort of working title sort of London based a little bit twee but rather lovely romantic comedy that's my fucking happy place like I love that stuff you know I was kind of weaned on like Richard Curtis movies like you give me of that stuff, you know, Notting Hill, Four Weddings, Love, actually all of that stuff, I love it.

1:15:18Lauren Lyle:I hoover it up.

1:15:20Jeffrey Dean Morgan:So why didn't you feel like that?

1:15:22Lauren Lyle:I think a number of times. I found her a bit too much, unfortunately. I found it a bit grating from the kind of like weird sort of pastiche of different genres and things she was doing to camera early on. I was like, oh no, this is a bit try-hard. And I was just like, I found that. It got me on the back foot a little bit. I was like, I don't love this. And I found her a little bit grating. when you have the meat cue I actually rather enjoyed that I thought that was really well done and I suddenly became slightly more interested but then the end of this first episode ends with her being even more than she was before like it is so so too much and I was just like I just I can't I just can't I just I didn't really like her or want to spend time with her and I think that was that was a struggle I had and well like I said there was definitely a sort of like a chunk in the middle and towards the end where I was warming to her but then they lost me with the last five minutes.

1:16:17Lauren Lyle:And I think the lack of sort of laughs for me meant I just wasn't in any way inspired to watch it anymore. But what I'm most, most irritated by, Boyd, is you've almost made it mandatory for me to go back to this. And for that, I curse you to the nine hells. It is mandatory.

1:16:32Jeffrey Dean Morgan:But he was right about smoke in terms of carrying on for a few episodes.

1:16:35Lauren Lyle:Yeah, but I liked smoke, right?

1:16:37Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I was on board. Yeah, but similarly, this will probably happen.

1:16:39Scott Gimple:You thought the first episode and a half were fairly standard and nothing special. Yeah, and it definitely goes in an interesting way. But I was still enjoying it. But let me just say this before Kate chimes in. Okay. I totally get it. I totally get your opinion of her, of that character. And as I say, I think a lot of other people have a similar opinion. Yeah, it's a barrier. But I think it's so worth bearing with it because you see much more to her than that in the show. Quite abrasive, full-on thing.

1:17:07Jeffrey Dean Morgan:And maybe it's because that character isn't settled in her own skin. Yeah, it's all to do with that.

1:17:11Scott Gimple:So as she falls in love or whatever.

1:17:14Jeffrey Dean Morgan:And you meet her family.

1:17:15Scott Gimple:When you see more of her family and you see more of her background and what happened to her in Brooklyn and why she came over and all of that. And you see more of her dealing with... It just becomes fleshed out. So it's quite an abrasive performance and character. I do not disagree. But I hope and I think that people will want to spend more time with her than you did. and as it goes on you'll get so much more rewarding.

1:17:39Lauren Lyle:It is an interesting conundrum, isn't it? Because we are in an age with this sort of glut of television and if a show does take a few episodes for you to sort of dial into it, so many shows won't get that chance because there's so much going on, people are like, no, I'm done, no, I'm done, and then move on. And it's like, so I wonder how much...

1:17:57Jeffrey Dean Morgan:But that's where Lena's name's going to help. Yeah, you're absolutely right

1:18:00Lauren Lyle:and the people who are in it.

1:18:01Jeffrey Dean Morgan:She's got the reputation and it's like, I will persist. I think Will Sharp

1:18:04Scott Gimple:is so charming. He is. And so engaged. I think that's the key, is that there's enough of him. I mean, really early on, I think that's the point. She's literally her first night out and she's already, she meet Cutes then. And that's the master's show because I think he provides the counterpoint and he is so engaging and likable. He balances her out. Yeah.

1:18:21Lauren Lyle:There's a lot of chat about Fiona Apple's debut album title, which I'm a big fan of, so I enjoyed that. Yeah. But Kay, what was your reaction?

1:18:28Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Sort of a mix of you two. Like, I watched this in Rimini and I can't remember if I watched the second episode. I think I did, but I haven't watched enough of it. So at first, because I love Lena Dunham I think she's you know a phenomenal talent but I was sort of a little bit disappointed I mean I liked I really liked Megan Stalter because I love her in Hacks and did I find it too I found bits too much but then I kind of understood what Lena was doing with it and there are moments where she talks about like there's a moment where she says about her constantly having to adjust her expectations and you get a bit of an insight into the depth of her but that first episode she is a bit one dimensional in terms of just like It's kooky American in London.

1:19:08Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Some of the humour came from the culture clash stuff, which I enjoyed, but I don't think if it was across 10 episodes, it would just sustain itself on that. There has to be some depth. I think that comes from the relationship with Will. I bought into their chemistry. I bought into this couple. And I like the fact that, you know, because Lena likes Bridget Jones, and obviously there's a lot of nods to it in this. I like the fact that also it's addressing the fact that, you know, this character, who I've seen described as being a messy character, etc but I think what it does really well is shows the modern version of what happens when you get dumped or you're heartbroken and before in Bridget days social media didn't exist so you were in agony but you didn't really know what the other person was getting up to and this really taps into the fact that she is watching Emily Ratajkowski's character being complete babe online and it is torturing herself with it and I think that's a really great observation that you know Lena's so good at capturing the modern conditions.

1:20:03Jeffrey Dean Morgan:So, yeah, I enjoyed it. I love the fact that, you know, Rita Wilson, I love the family dynamics as well. I will persist because of you. I mean, no, no, actually, I would have persisted anyway because it's Lena Dunham. But the fact that you're saying that, you know, as you progress in this episode five.

1:20:19Scott Gimple:I was thinking part of what she's saying with this, and part of the character being too much, is you see these people all the time. Like, you know, literally, you know, you go to whether you're flying off somewhere, or you see someone at the corner of your eye being a big personality and being really

1:20:35Jeffrey Dean Morgan:But Lena's probably like that

1:20:36Scott Gimple:What, Lena? Yeah A little bit but I think she's but I think this character is more much more of that than she is herself which is why she I think she and I think she's gone out of her way to go there are people like this now particularly now enabled by social media people walking along holding their camera and looking at Instagram and letting that dominate their lives but being as well someone who everyone has to deal with she's a big personality and when she meets you meet her colleagues I don't think you'd meet her colleagues have you like Richard Grant is her boss and all of that is like they're all like feel the same way better as you do in a way so it's aware it's self aware that she is a challenging character well you can tell that from the title they know what they're doing exactly so it's like this is the whole point of the thing which made me go I found it quite abrasive and annoying in some ways but that's the point and I think you must go through it and go with it and you will enjoy it will I get past it

1:21:29Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I just find it irritating that people are considered to be too much anyway. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's part of it. That's the point, right? Who the fuck's to say anyone's too much?

1:21:38Scott Gimple:I bet if you saw someone who was too much.

1:21:40Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I would think it, but it's a cultural thing. That's what I'm saying. I am part of the problem. We're all part of this thing. And especially with women. Oh, she's too much.

1:21:48Lauren Lyle:Yeah. Anyway.

1:21:50Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Rant over.

1:21:50Lauren Lyle:Too much then. On every level. Netflix when, Boydie? Today. Today.

1:21:55Scott Gimple:The 10th of July. That's how we record this, by the way.

1:21:57Lauren Lyle:Yes, that's how we record it.

1:21:58Scott Gimple:It'll all be on the Netflix by the time this is on Monday, yeah.

1:22:01Lauren Lyle:Okay, and you can decide for yourselves whether it is indeed too much. Yeah. Next up this week, we have Bookish on You and Alibi, and this is Mark Gatiss and Matthew Sweet's series, and it sees Gatiss as Mr. Book, proving that nominative determinism is alive and well. He's a bookshop owner with a sideline in solving crimes. Kay, what's this for you? A page burner or a skip to the end?

1:22:24Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Page burner? Yeah.

1:22:26Lauren Lyle:You can say page burner. I know page turner is the thing, but page burner, no, that's not.

1:22:29Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Always being educated on this podcast. I'm pretty sure I haven't made that up.

1:22:31Lauren Lyle:I mean, I might have done. Who knows? Who knows?

1:22:34Jeffrey Dean Morgan:It is a page burner. Well, I very much enjoy this because of Mark Gatiss and the world he's created. So as you say, he plays Gabriel Book, and it's set in post-World War II London. He owns this bookshop. He's an amateur sleuth on the side. And do you know what? For me, it's just like you can just tell how much fun Gatiss is having playing this character. All of this lies with Book as the character. He's smart, he's camp, he's eccentric. Crucially as well, he's gay at a time when it was illegal to be gay. And I think this is what elevates it above other crime dramas because it's kind of a standard period drama, a period crime drama.

1:23:14Jeffrey Dean Morgan:The crimes are interesting, but I'm not saying, I would say that actually the strongest element is Book and his relationship with Trotty. He's played by Polly Walker, who was in Bridgerton. and their lavender marriage, which is a term I hadn't heard of before, but it's a marriage of convenience. I really love their dynamic and getting to learn more about him and the fact that he's living a lie, but he's found a way of making it work. And also the dynamic he has with his new assistant, Jack, played by Connor Finch. So yeah, so each two episodes covers one case. It's told in two episodes. I've watched both episodes and I enjoyed it.

1:23:54Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I enjoyed the case itself. It involves Daniel Mays, who everyone loves, of course. But I think my main enjoyment does lie with book.

1:24:03Lauren Lyle:It's a larger-than-life performance, which I really like. Because it's got, I mean, it's heavily Sherlockian, isn't it, the way it's done, because he's a very high-functioning, super-cerebral bookshop owner who knows many, many things, sees things that no one else sees, makes connections that no one else does. And there's something always gratifying in that kind of competence porn. We're seeing someone who's just super smart, being exceptionally good at what they do. And I like that about him. And I like the very mannered, over-the-top performance. There's genuinely an argument about an apostrophe at the beginning.

1:24:33Lauren Lyle:And I was like, this show is very much my speed. If you're arguing over punctuation, I'm with you. I'm here, you know? And I thought that was really good. And I like, you know, his dog is called Dog. Like, it's just quite funny and a little bit kooky. But it's interesting. I was with you, actually. my interest in the actual crimes was there but definitely wasn't why I was watching it I was watching it for Gators and his performance because he's just a lot of fun to be around and to watch doing his thing and to hear saying the things that he says

1:25:02Jeffrey Dean Morgan:but also Polly Walker as Trotty just a great that's a great pairing their chemistry is great

1:25:07Scott Gimple:well they're all good the young guy Jack Blunt that character played by Conor Finch is really good is the guy who they enticed to kind of work with them when you don't really know why or how they know him but there is a reason but there is a reason as that will be explained in further episodes. And Nora. Nora, yeah, who's the kind of cheeky teenager who's observing what goes on. I really like the fact that he kind of fights certain clichés of this type of show. So, for example, you expect, when he's like a consultant detective like Sherlock is and pokes his nose into these cases, you expect a certain amount of abrasion from the superior.

1:25:41Scott Gimple:In fact, Inspector Bliss, played by Elie Levy, is thrilled. Oh, yeah. Encouraging. Just wants to help. him to help with these cases because he knows that he will help and does help. So it's like, it's kind of, he is Sherlockian, but he hasn't got the, he's a nicer, more charming. It's like Sherlock with people skills. Yeah, exactly.

1:26:00Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Also, can I just say, I love the quirk of him constantly going on about his letter from Churchill. Oh, the letter from Churchill is brilliant.

1:26:05Scott Gimple:Which he, absolutely, there's a Doctor Who comparison you'll hear in the interview where we talked about that. Yeah, the letter from Churchill device is very clever. But what I would say is the mysteries get better. I've watched five episodes of this one out of the six. So there's three stories, as you say, split into two episodes each, which is roughly the length, actually, of a Sherlock episode. Sherlock episodes were 90 minutes. These are even a little bit longer. But what that length of time gives you is the mysteries are intriguing enough. I think the second and third mysteries are actually better ones than the first because the first is more introductory.

1:26:37Scott Gimple:You've got to introduce the characters and the setting and establish certain ongoing mysteries, if you like. The second episode, the second story is about a film being made by a film studio in London and it has some brilliant characters, including an awful film critic, a female film critic who is based on a real character, as he explained in the interview. And she's brilliant. And then the third, my favourite, is actually the final mystery, which is about poisoning in a hotel. And it's all set in this fantastic hotel. and you see like lots of flashbacks to Book's previous life and all sorts of stuff about him being gay in this world and when it's illegal.

1:27:18Scott Gimple:And there was an illicit club in the basement of this hotel that they talk about. And it's really, I think it gets better and better, this series, as it goes on. I've said the same thing that I said about too much, but I think the more you watch of it, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it. And it's very much the fun of his performance I just want to hang out with Book yeah you don't want to hang out but it provides you lots of other characters you want to hang out with as well as it goes on

1:27:42Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Book and his crew yeah

1:27:43Scott Gimple:Book and his gang so I really liked I think it's very you know it must have been I almost got into a discussion at this dinner that I went to last night about you know budgets and stuff like that we were talking about how much people were talking about how expensive TV drama is now this looks very handsome I would use that word but it's you know I think it's very cleverly deployed its budget on certain settings so the bookshop itself is fantastic in episodes one and two.

1:28:07Jeffrey Dean Morgan:And actually the street, you know, the...

1:28:08Scott Gimple:Yeah, what you see of the street and the bombed out remnants of London in this time. And then in episode two, the film studio is really vividly drawn to life. And then in episodes five and six, the hotel is beautifully depicted as well. So they've spent money in the right places, the production design and all of that is really impressive. And it's... I really enjoyed it. I'm very impressed.

1:28:30Lauren Lyle:I like the setting. I love that sort of weirdly dreamy, dreamy, rebuilding Britain post-war setting, because you get a lot of wartime settings, but I quite like that post-war setting, which you don't see anywhere near as much. Do you know what?

1:28:44Scott Gimple:He mentioned that in the interview, Mark Gatiss. We're not running that this week, are we? No, it'll be next week. Next week, yeah. He talked about how he wanted to do a thing set in this period because there are very, very few shows, films and TV series that are set in the immediate post-war World War II. The sort of rebuilding period.

1:29:01Jeffrey Dean Morgan:He's worked with a historian on this, hasn't he?

1:29:03Scott Gimple:Yeah, the historian who I think is the historian gave a talk last night at this event I went to. I am in the pocket of big... Big book. Big book. But, yeah.

1:29:13Jeffrey Dean Morgan:And aren't they writing a book afterwards? Which I think is quite interesting.

1:29:16Scott Gimple:The book is, I've got a copy of the book, yeah. So Matthew Sweet, who, as you say, he co-wrote various episodes with, has written a novelisation of the series. A book book. A book book, exactly. Which is a very handsome object in itself. They gave us copies of this event. And I want to finally mention Carolina Giametta, who directed it very, very well, is brilliant. And she's also an exec producer on it. And you'll know she directed some of the better of the Channel 5 thrills, like The Drowning. Do you remember that? I think we might have reviewed The Drowning on the show back in the day, about three years ago, I think it was.

1:29:50Scott Gimple:And she does a very good job directing the show.

1:29:54Lauren Lyle:Good.

1:29:55Scott Gimple:Bookish then.

1:29:55Lauren Lyle:Which lands? On You and Alibi.

1:29:57Scott Gimple:You and Alibi. Wednesday, 16th of July, at 9 o 'clock 2025. And of course, as is tradition, it will all be on you, which is the name of their catch-up service, but you, yes.

1:30:09Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Not every time, come on.

1:30:11Lauren Lyle:What was funny is that there's a picture of Boyd at the event for this. And I went, oh, Boyd, look, it's you and Mark Gators. And that was a great joke.

1:30:20Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I don't know if the retail of it's worked so well, but in the moment, I will agree it was good.

1:30:26Lauren Lyle:Okay, good, brilliant. Right, let's move on to the Institute on MGM+. an adaptation of the Stephen King novel of the same name. And this is adapted by Benjamin Cavell, and it sees children with unusual abilities abducted from their beds and taken away to Mary Louise Parker's school for gifted youngsters, essentially. Boydie, using my incredible powers of TP, I am sensing, I'm sensing that you thought this was another solid Stephen King adaptation, and you're probably going to press on with it. Is that an accurate reading?

1:30:58Scott Gimple:It's definitely a solid Stephen King adaptation. I'm not sure if I'm going to press on with it.

1:31:02Lauren Lyle:Oh, see, my powers are malfunctioning.

1:31:04Scott Gimple:It's waned a bit.

1:31:05Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Call yourself Mystic Meg.

1:31:07Scott Gimple:I mean, you recently re-watched Stranger Things, with which this has quite a lot in common when it comes to gathering young people, young people with special powers, It definitely has teenagers in that. Imprisoned, effectively, with special powers, imprisoned in an institute.

1:31:24Lauren Lyle:Yeah, I'm not sure that's a Stranger Things thing, necessarily. It was the X-Men thing that it most made me think of. Oh, well, X-Men as well.

1:31:30Scott Gimple:And in fact, one of my favourite films, that favourite phrase, The Fury, the Brian De Palma film from the mid-70s, which is a very similar premise as well, about in terms of kidnapping young people for various reasons and using their superpowers. Yes, Kay?

1:31:44Jeffrey Dean Morgan:If a listener is making a note of all the times Boyd says one of my favourite films, please can you send it in?

1:31:49Scott Gimple:By the way, I want a list. I want a list. I'm doing it deliberately now. You've realised that. No, I know.

1:31:53Lauren Lyle:I'm enjoying it. I'm playing up to that. I would just like to more about it. Do you know, at this point, I think it's a book. like genuinely it's like Boyd Hilton's favourite films and it's just a list of hundreds and hundreds of films in a book

1:32:03Jeffrey Dean Morgan:available in books yeah

1:32:04Scott Gimple:maybe I will maybe I'll do that James actually

1:32:07Jeffrey Dean Morgan:James actually

1:32:08Scott Gimple:so when was when did this have you read the book by the way

1:32:11Lauren Lyle:I've never read the 2019 it came out

1:32:13Scott Gimple:2019 it came out so I mean it's difficult to know whether you know the scenario does not feel in any way original nor does its execution nor does anything that happened in the opening episode I've only watched one episode. There's a little bit of stuff at the end, towards the end of the episode, that's a little, somewhat surprising. A couple of scenes, I was like, oh, okay, at least they're trying to make this slightly less predictable than it has been up until that point. But it's going to take, you've got the teenage boy being abducted from his home, forced to enter this institute, which is run by Mary Louise Parker.

1:32:49Scott Gimple:And they're kind of like, the powers that be, the first episode is establishing that this genius guy who can finish his exam or whatever maths exam or whatever exam it was in 10 seconds while the rest of the school is like labouring and he's younger than them. He's only like 14, I think, is that right? And at the same time, as that's all happening, you meet Ben Barnes' character who kind of is, like he's the guy who decides to not take the flight in his first scene and take the money, the cash, because the flight's been overbooked, which is always an infuriating situation. I completely identify with the fury.

1:33:23Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Do they really go up in increments of 100?

1:33:25Scott Gimple:Yeah, I've been in that position really weirdly. I've literally been there.

1:33:29Lauren Lyle:They've gone to it and you've got, yep, for that amount, I will totally do it. Exactly.

1:33:32Scott Gimple:Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I delayed my flight. And they put you up in the hotel and they give you cash. Yeah, it's actually been quite good.

1:33:38Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Another of Boyd's travel stories that we'll put on Pilot Plus. A gem.

1:33:41Scott Gimple:I'll do a separate book for that. But it's taking its time to weave him into the plot line we all could turn about with the young guy being abducted and taken to his institute. and to what purpose I would say very little just get the fuck on with it when it comes to Ben Barnes hurry the fuck up Bridget

1:33:59Lauren Lyle:this is interesting that that's your action so he takes a job as a night knocker now I googled this to find out oh this is clearly some American thing it's not an American thing it's just a Stephen King thing oh of course it is from what I gather this night knocker thing is something he's basically just made up right but the way it's positioned here is it's like it's something I should know but I what's funny is if you google it the first thing that comes up in google is a reddit thread of people going what the fuck is a night knocker to something Stephen King has made up. It's hilarious. But the idea is that he's like an old school police job where during the wee hours, he goes around the local businesses, knocks on the door, checks the locks, makes sure that no crimes are going on, that no one's broken it.

1:34:35Lauren Lyle:Just make sure the neighbourhood is okay. Essentially that. And he has a route and he runs a route. There's a weird thing where he's got this old analogue device and he uses a key to reset it, which he goes, that makes no sense to me at all.

1:34:45Scott Gimple:Why is that thing? You're like, what the fuck is this thing? I don't know what that is.

1:34:47Lauren Lyle:But it felt quite twee and kind of cute. And I thought it was a real thing, but apparently it isn't. But what you were saying there is, this is something I quite like about Stephen King's narratives. They are quite, and you could say, ponderous, because they do take a while to get with it. But there's also... That's one word for it. They are slow. All his narratives are like this. But there's a coziness to Stephen King's writing, because it all happens in small-town Maine, and it's all quite cutesy, and all the Ben Barnes stuff, I'm enjoying enormously, and I don't know why. I like his character.

1:35:22Lauren Lyle:It is slow. It is slow. I still don't know where it's going.

1:35:25Scott Gimple:Listen, I quite like his character. I think he is always very engaging and enjoyable to us. So obviously he is going to be embroiled in this. Yeah, yeah. I just want to get on with that. I mean, if they don't, then that's wild, by the way. Because I actually thought of the two parallel storylines, I much more believed what's happening to him. He hitches a ride and then he ends up coming to the police station. All of that I found much more believable than anything that happened in the institute, in the titular institute with the young teenager. The girl who snogs him twice, like forces herself onto the guy and insists on kissing him.

1:36:02Scott Gimple:The way that everyone behaves. I know it's like, I know it's adding to the mystery to some extent to have the characters who are running this institute behaving really weirdly. But it's like, if the explanation of what they're doing is what Stephen King is saying it is, that's an unclear way of putting it, but put it this way, I just did not buy anyone's behaviour from the teenagers to the people running it. It just all, none of it made sense.

1:36:30Lauren Lyle:Well, the people running it, that you can tell from the first glimpse of them that they're going to be weird because they've cast character actors who have, shall we say, slightly unusual appearances and look a little bit cartoony and a little bit maniacal. It was the dad from Mrs.

1:36:43Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Maisel, isn't it? Maisel?

1:36:45Scott Gimple:Yeah. Wasn't he in it? Yeah. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, yeah.

1:36:48Jeffrey Dean Morgan:And then Michael Zegan was in too much. It's a Maisel fest.

1:36:51Scott Gimple:No, absolutely, yeah. But I think I was just, in the end, I think one of the problems with it is, I was thinking of Stranger Things. Again, I know you keep saying it hasn't got that much in common with it, but if you think about the storytelling and the expertise with which they brought in, you know, Eleven in the institute that she ends up in, and the people running that institute, the Matthew Modin character, much more well-written, much more believable than this thing, which has got similar, as I think it has anyway, a similar premise. I just think if you compare the two, one is a master class in storytelling and character development and establishing the weird mystery of what the fuck's going on and what are they going to do to seven?

1:37:30Scott Gimple:How many of these have you seen? Only one.

1:37:31Lauren Lyle:So clearly I'm now going to do a too much on you. Fair enough. But from the first episode, I really don't think you could. But I think you probably can't necessarily get too much of a handle on it just because Stephen King's narratives do move at a... Wait, how many have you watched? At a deliberate toast. I think I've seen three and a half so far. I'm really enjoying it. But like I said, I do... Remember The Outsider? I have a real thing for those kind of Kingian narratives. Yeah, The Outsider has really well done that.

1:37:55Scott Gimple:The other thing I think... Sorry, the final thing I wanted to say, but I think it's clunkily directed. Okay, interesting. I think it's very TV-ish. Surprisingly TV-ish for a big Stephen King miniseries. Unlike the one you just mentioned. The Outsider. The Outsider was quite cinematic. Yeah, it was.

1:38:11Lauren Lyle:This is not that cinematic. No, it's not as cinematic as that. You're absolutely right. But I didn't find that distracting.

1:38:17Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Is that because of the setting of the Institute?

1:38:19Lauren Lyle:Oh, do you know what it is, Kay? Fucking full of corridors, isn't it?

1:38:22Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Oh, yeah.

1:38:23Lauren Lyle:Wall-to-wall corridors, that place. No, he's corridor-in.

1:38:25Scott Gimple:There's no corridors in this. You sure? No, it's not. There were a lot of them. That's not the problem. No, no, no. It's the clunky TV drama-ish execution. Wow.

1:38:35Lauren Lyle:Kay? What did you think? Did you find the corridors clunky?

1:38:39Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I was so bored by this.

1:38:40Lauren Lyle:I'm not shocked. Brilliant. My telepathy would have told me that.

1:38:43Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah. No, I just, it was the pace as well. I was just like, no.

1:38:46Lauren Lyle:It's very, yeah, it's ponderous. It's ponderous.

1:38:48Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I mean, stop saying ponderous, just say it's slow. It's slow. It's just slow. It's deliberately paced. It's like wading through molasses, right? And yeah, I'd rather spend more time watching more of bookish, more of too much than, yeah, this.

1:38:59Lauren Lyle:No, it's funny. I definitely recognised that the pace was slow while I was watching it, but in that very Kingian way. But he's very good at drawing, yes, at drawing very textured characters and environments. I do think that the Ben Barnes Night Knocker storyline, if I'm honest, I preferred that to the Institute stuff, which you could argue is not great. Oh, me too. I really, really engaged with that. Everyone hates the Institute stuff.

1:39:29Jeffrey Dean Morgan:But I didn't hate the Institute stuff.

1:39:30Lauren Lyle:I'm totally there with the Institute stuff.

1:39:32Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I do, and it's called the Institute, so.

1:39:33Lauren Lyle:But it's too, it's, like, I get boys. where it's heightened and almost like Lynch apingly weird at times but without feeling as organic as David Lynch's stuff it almost feels like it's got a Twin Peaks influence to it but it felt a little bit forced and it's like that bit I didn't love so much about it but I'm engaged enough with the mystery of what's going on there and by the end of the second episode I was like oh my god I'm going to watch the whole of this oh really

1:40:00Scott Gimple:oh I didn't feel that

1:40:02Lauren Lyle:no I had a lot of fun shall I say to you

1:40:05Jeffrey Dean Morgan:knock yourself out

1:40:06Lauren Lyle:Fair enough. That's me on my own then, watching the Institute, but I think it's great and I think you should watch it.

1:40:11Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Let us know, though, when you've finished it. I will do. I will do.

1:40:14Lauren Lyle:Where does that,

1:40:14Scott Gimple:that's on MGM Plus, Boydie, when? MGM Plus, sorry, hold on. It's just started. It's already started. Sunday, the 13th of July, 2025. People are even now watching it.

1:40:27Lauren Lyle:Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Finally this week, we have the third season of Star Trek Strange New Worlds, which picks up where season two left off as Captain Pike and the crew at the Enterprise were engaged in a life or death struggle with the Gorn. Kay, do you want to tell... No, I'm kidding. You haven't watched it. I'm the only one who's seen this. It's fine. I will do this very briefly. I promise I will actually do this briefly. So here's the thing with Star Trek Strange New Worlds. It's... You know how I generally don't like it when science fiction doesn't take itself seriously? When you introduce comedy to science fiction, it tends to kind of annoy me a little bit because I like it to take itself seriously.

1:41:06Lauren Lyle:I take it seriously.

1:41:07Scott Gimple:When you come into anything, you get...

1:41:09Lauren Lyle:Also that. But Star Trek in particular, I've always taken badly to comedy episodes. But weirdly, Strangerly World gets a complete pass in that department because I love the comedy episodes of this. Even X-Files, I used to hate the comedy episodes of X-Files when I first saw it because it took me out of the world. But I love them in this. And I've banged on about the tonal elasticity of this show so much. But genuinely, in this new season... Tonal elasticity? That's right, the tonal elasticity.

1:41:35Jeffrey Dean Morgan:That's not the first time he's dropped that bomb. No, it's not.

1:41:37Lauren Lyle:But it really has this ability to kind of metamorphose into all these different things. So this begins with an episode that is broadly horror-coded. There is a Comedy of Manors episode in there. I mean, they've had those before. We had a musical last season. But this one then goes into, there's a murder mystery. There's a Knives Out style murder mystery episode in here as well. There's something that riffs on the 60s Star Trek aesthetic, which is really funny. And I'm as amazed that they managed to get away with it and make it all feel just natural within the umbrella of this same show as it is that I actually like it, which is not my normal thing.

1:42:15Lauren Lyle:And I think a lot of it comes down to the characters. And I said this before, Star Trek Discovery, if you pinned me down and threatened to, I don't know, shoot me with something, a phaser, I wouldn't be able to tell you the names of half the people in Star Trek Discovery, even now having watched however many seasons of it. But all of the characters in this show are distinct, likeable, they feel like I've got an inner life, they're loads of fun to be around, they're funny and engaging and I think, you know, and the show is colourful. It is the best Star Trek I've seen in a very long time and I continue to enjoy it enormously.

1:42:49Lauren Lyle:But genuinely, I think it breeds new life into Star Trek because Star Trek can be a little self-serious sometimes and I think this is... Much like it's fans. Much like it's fans. But this genuinely, like this is, it's a wonderful, wonderful show. Wonderful. One, two wonderful shows.

1:43:03Scott Gimple:two wonderfuls. I need to carry it and watch it because I'm a Star Trek fan essentially. I abandoned this. Well, how much of it did you watch? I can't even remember. 23, season two,

1:43:15Lauren Lyle:I think. So you did watch the whole first season? Yeah, yeah. You never made it to the musical episode? No. Oh, it's a shame.

1:43:20Scott Gimple:Yeah. But no, I need to go back to it. I will enjoy it, I'm sure. You should. Yes. It's very good. Wonderful, wonderful. And this goes out

1:43:27Lauren Lyle:on the Paramount Plus this Thursday, the 17th. Correct. Fabulous. Okay. anything else out this week that we haven't covered there's a lot out this week there's a lot out this week

1:43:36Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I urge you to rattle through it please I know

1:43:38Scott Gimple:Kate's lost a will to live she wants out of this podcast I mean you can leave her if you want Kate this is just you know admin but you know Karen Peary the aforementioned company who we got the interview with that actually starts on Sunday the 20th on ITV at 8 o 'clock and I think we may be reviewing it next week we'll see there's a show called The Narrow Road to the Deep North now is this series 2 of that no are you sure I think it's a limited series yeah

1:44:03Lauren Lyle:Because this, a series one of this, this aired in America a long time ago. No, no, no. So I thought this was the second series.

1:44:10Scott Gimple:No, I think you're confusing it with something else. This is an Australian show that aired earlier this year.

1:44:14Lauren Lyle:It's not the kind of generic title that you're likely to mistake, is it? I know, but all I can say is... The narrow road to the deep north.

1:44:20Scott Gimple:All I can say is it's a 2025 Australian drama miniseries based on a lot of the same name, directed by Justin Kerzel, who's a very good director, who did The Order recently. It is a miniseries. You're absolutely right.

1:44:35Lauren Lyle:There are only five episodes.

1:44:37Scott Gimple:And it stars Jacob O 'Lordi. Ah, right.

1:44:39Lauren Lyle:Okay, so yes, this aired on Prime Video on the 18th of April. And that is why it feels old to me. This is another show on Prime Video

1:44:49Scott Gimple:that we weren't told about.

1:44:50Lauren Lyle:This has only arrived on Prime Video. Fucking hell. Well, yeah. But I don't know if it was Prime Video in the UK. It might well have been in the UK. I don't think it was. But it says it launched on Prime Video on the 18th of April, 2025. But I don't know if that was here in the UK. Either way, either way, it comes to the... BBC Two.

1:45:06Scott Gimple:BBC Two. Yeah, on Sunday. On Sunday. On Sunday. Nine o 'clock. So there's that. Anyway, Jacob Elordi in TV drama, you know, I urge people to pay attention to that case, looking at me like I'm...

1:45:16Lauren Lyle:The Summer I Turn Pretty, Season 3. Now, this is the third and final season of The Summer I Turn Pretty, which is based on the series of popular YA books.

1:45:23Scott Gimple:I like the fact that we can clip just you saying The Summer I Turn Pretty, by the way. because that was brilliant.

1:45:29Lauren Lyle:But yeah, this was Prime. This is Prime Video. Famous for its use of songs by one Taylor Swift.

1:45:36Scott Gimple:Absolutely. Yeah, you'll love that, I'm sure. I do. Yeah, that's on Wednesday on Prime Video. Untamed, the aforementioned that Kay, I think, watched some of. Yeah, Eric Banner. With Eric Banner in Yosemite. That's on Netflix on Thursday, the 17th of July. The Ladies in Black is a thing that's just started on You, and it's not even on the You and And. It's just streaming on You. and you mentioned it last week, did you, I think?

1:45:57Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Oh, well saved. We were about to kick off.

1:46:00Scott Gimple:I know. Debbie Mazar, Miranda Otto, Jessica DeGaul, who's in the couple next door, season one, you remember. Don't need that. Mixtape, which is another show you've seen. You saw that in the Italian... Rimini. Rimini.

1:46:15Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yes, Jim Sturgis, your fave. Jim Sturgis, my favourite.

1:46:17Scott Gimple:Whispering Jim Sturvish. Jim Sturvish.

1:46:21Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I'm now known.

1:46:22Scott Gimple:Whispering Jim Sturgis. But you see the young version of him Yes. Right? Yeah. Dual timeline. Dual timelines. And a great soundtrack of...

1:46:31Jeffrey Dean Morgan:We need to, please, we need to review that.

1:46:34Scott Gimple:Okay. All right. Because you've seen it?

1:46:36Jeffrey Dean Morgan:No, because I feel strongly about it.

1:46:38Scott Gimple:Lazy. Yeah. Yeah, basically. Do you know what? Let me just say this. There's a... We'll finish the end of it now. There's a new... There's a feature-length drama coming up on BBC Two. There's an hour and 45 minutes. that we must consider for review because it's Junior McGovern's new project, right? Yeah, I've heard of this. Yes, then we do. It's an hour 45. The film TV drama debate continues. Is it a one-off? It's a one-off. It's a one-off. Feature length. It's a film. Hour 45 minute TV drama. See, we don't have to do it because it's a film, so you're fine. But it's Jimmy. Definitely not coming out in cinemas.

1:47:15Scott Gimple:We'll not be covered in Empire because it's not a film. No.

1:47:18Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Okay, we have to do it then. It's a film.

1:47:20Scott Gimple:There you go. Literal film. I leave you with that bombshell.

1:47:22Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Yeah, well done, Boyd.

1:47:23Lauren Lyle:Any other films you want to discuss? No, it's fine. We can talk about Superman if you want. No, absolutely not. Best not, on account of it being rubbish. Anyway, okay, so, what is our pick of the week, and it's not Superman? Too much.

1:47:34Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I'm going to go, it's between bookish and too much, I'm going to go too much though.

1:47:38Lauren Lyle:My favourite show of this week is Star Trek Strange New Worlds, however, however, if I discount that, it would be The Institute, which I am 100 % standing for, because I think it's great.

1:47:46Jeffrey Dean Morgan:Where you belong.

1:47:50Lauren Lyle:Wow. It's fair. It's fair. Okay, fine. that is it I guess we're done we're finished nothing else to say except for a very important thing which is if you want to come and see us on the 8th of August and why wouldn't you make sure you go to the King's Place website and buy your tickets to our 350th show it is going to be extremely exciting you will want to be there in the flesh Kay is bringing cake for everyone she'll have made it at home she's going to present it to everyone it's going to be extraordinary listen

1:48:17Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I've already won a baking competition once I don't want to embarrass you you did

1:48:21Lauren Lyle:you did that's true who knows what hijinks we're going to get up to this time as well so yes kingsplace.co.uk and just search for Pilot TV 350 and you can get your tickets there other than that you can follow us on the social medias at Pilot TV Pod at KRibero at Boyd Hilton and at James C. Dyer we do want your reviews as well as your money for tickets so please do head over to whatever platform you like and leave us a 5 star rating that is the only one that is allowed I'm so sorry meanwhile we will be back in your ears on Thursday doing something on Pilot Plus maybe it'll be Karen Pirie who knows but we're going to be doing something else that is out this week we've got quite the selection of things that we can go from that we didn't do on the main podcast so we're going to do that on next week's show Mark Gatiss will be with us to talk bookish which is very very exciting but what else is out next week we've got Washington Black Mr Big Stuff Returns Unforgivable that's the film The Assassin The Assassin that's right The Assassin The Ours oh yeah I want to watch that what else is out next week here we go yes and Under the Bridge ITV yeah don't know what that is

1:49:28Jeffrey Dean Morgan:here we go I can't wait to see as well

1:49:29Lauren Lyle:here we go indeed Under the Bridge is another Australian drama is it yeah FYI bring it on to crime fabulous right we are done we're out Kay's about to starve she got up she's leaving she's on her way out she's so hungry I'm already packing up you're halfway to Nando's already I'm hangry man

1:49:44Jeffrey Dean Morgan:I need to eat

1:49:44Lauren Lyle:alright this is how Pilot Plus pretty much ended with us going off to get food this is becoming a theme here we should never do the podcast hangry no no all right we're done finished see you next time pilot out