WAR, Break Clause, and Blue Lights. With guest Siân Brooke (and Ziggy)

7:22Ziggy:And I was like, what?

7:25Siân Brooke:She said, yep, they're a box set. They're on ITVX, Steph. They're on ITVX. I was like, oh, okay. And then I just left and went to watch them. But yeah, I didn't even realize ITV did this. Because you know, when we did the last one, I was like, oh, now I'm going to have to watch, but maybe it's only three weekends, so it'll be fine. They released them all over the box. I didn't even know they did this model.

7:43Ziggy:Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do it pretty much all the time. Yeah.

7:46Siân Brooke:They do it. Yeah. Okay. You see that tone of voice? That's exactly what it sounded like. Just like exasperation. Right. So then I watched all of the blame. Whoa. Right. you know as I as I said this is a fucking triumph and it continues yes it is it is yes it is it continues to be a triumph the whole thing is brilliant I know loads of people are watching it and loving it please get in touch if you also love it and think it's brilliant and I really really want to do a spoiler special but it'd just be me talking to myself the end I'm sure Boyd

8:17Ziggy:could be persuaded to do one I've got one episode to go so I'm nearly there B do you want to do

8:22Siân Brooke:a spoiler special with me yeah sure well if you want

8:25Ziggy:to chat about it on the next Spider Plus, then you go for it. But I think there's quite a few potential spoiler specials we need to do. We have to stack them up. There's another one we were going to do, right? What was the other one you and I thought would be best to do? We don't need...

8:39Siân Brooke:You and I didn't... James 4. Oh, yeah, what we did... What was that? What were we talking about? DTF.

8:45Ziggy:Let's do DTF.

8:46Siân Brooke:We've definitely got to do DTF because it's so much to talk about. I do need to watch that. James, you're really missing out not watching that. I know.

8:53Ziggy:It's on the list. It's on the list, but the list is long. my list which we'll get to in a minute but carry on okay so yeah so that's why we've been watching

8:59Siân Brooke:um but yeah i've had a great week of uh watching tv and also someone messaged me to say they really wanted um us to do a re-watch of band of brothers but james you and i will talk about that later we will we're all gonna do that or not why are you um ignoring me for band of brothers because i know you have a lot on and i just don't like re-watches boy do you think they're wrong i mean that is true that's true i'm just i'm just trying to like be respectful of your time you have a lot more going on you know yeah

9:25Ziggy:I love you the best

9:28Siân Brooke:you're my favourite thanks

9:29Ziggy:talking of which the show that I finally finished that we could do a special about is Furious finally finished it yeah okay

9:36Siân Brooke:I need to finish that I've got two more so I need to finish that no I haven't finished it I know

9:41Ziggy:oh my god I can't I actually can't believe that you watched The Blame instead of Furious that is well

9:48Siân Brooke:what do you mean you can't believe The Blame is amazing because Furious

9:51Ziggy:is vastly superior

9:52Siân Brooke:oh so sorry James the show that you've only watched one of is vastly superior to Furious.

9:58Ziggy:The one that I've watched all of is vastly superior to The Blame

10:02Siân Brooke:Yes but you're saying it's vastly superior but you've only watched one of The Blame so how can you possibly say that? Anyway let's just not start fighting too early okay? Save it for later in the podcast

10:13Ziggy:Save it for later. So I've done the full, pretty much the full reverse on this one because remember I didn't like it to start with.

10:22Siân Brooke:And you actually you watched two and you still were and you're still saying you thought you were right on episode well that we were right on episode one. Episode one isn't the best.

10:29Ziggy:No. Okay. It isn't but it does end up being pretty great. Pretty great. I think it's flawed. There are certain things about it especially in the end like in the last few episodes when things get a little bit ridiculous and let's just say like there's one bit everyone shows up at one thing and they're all like fighting each other. There's literally jurisdiction discussions and the bloke says I don't think you've got jurisdiction here.

10:54Siân Brooke:I love a jurisdiction discussion for it. You're saying, we discussed it, yeah.

10:57Ziggy:They're actually quite cliched and silly, but there's a good one that breaks it. But that's just an example. But in general, it's brilliantly made. I mean, it's clearly like they've taken David Fincher's seven, in fact, all David Fincher films, and turned it into an eight-part TV show, which just visually pays homage to him all the way through, I think. And the story kind of starts out as one thing, and then actually it becomes something different. I like that about it. It's not really... it's about a female serial killer. That's how it was kind of marketed, quite rightly. And I'm sure it's done really well for Disney+.

11:29Ziggy:But in the end, it's not really about that. It's kind of about something completely different, which I won't say without spoiling it. And as such, it's a really disturbing but very pertinent story. And it's just everyone in it is brilliant. So, yeah, I've completely reversed on that one.

11:46Siân Brooke:Oh, I'm on for the rest of the day, so I'm going to watch that. I'm going to finish it today.

11:49Ziggy:I mean, yeah, you absolutely love it, yeah. it's really interesting

11:52Siân Brooke:I do like Emmy Rossum and yeah no

11:55Ziggy:the woman that steals the show is her colleague who works in the basement what's her name? ironically the one that none of us liked in the first episode yes yeah she is brilliant she is very good she's absolutely brilliant

12:10Siân Brooke:once again be a lesson to us that at least one of us has to watch more than one of the episodes because we've had too many ferrets this year we've been ferret infested

12:19Ziggy:there have been a lot of ferrets It's almost been, we've been like the government.

12:22Siân Brooke:Yeah. A lot of fun ages.

12:25Ziggy:Yeah. So I'm talking about Nora, the character of Nora, who's the head of the FBI Sex Crimes Unit. And she is played by Quincy Tyler Bernstein. And she is, her whole, her performance is big. And I think it will start to start. It takes a while to get used to. It takes a while to get used to. But then when you get, and there's reasons for her, shall we say, erratic behaviour. And her kind of outrageously off-kilter performance because of what the cat has been through and everything and what she does for her job. But she is so charismatic and so funny. She brings a lot of funny stuff to the team.

13:01Ziggy:So yeah, I loved her. She was fantastic. I finished Colin from Accounts. Absolutely great. No notes. That's what I'll say. Absolutely great.

13:09Siân Brooke:Can I just say one thing? I just want to pick up on one thing.

13:12Ziggy:Yeah.

13:12Siân Brooke:So are you with me or are you with James in the fact that, Remember I said that I didn't want that. Like James was just like, the last episode is just like another episode of Colin from Accounts. And I, to me, that was pitch perfect because I didn't want any big explosions. I didn't want anything. I wanted it to just be beautiful. An explosion would have been.

13:31Ziggy:I wasn't really looking for explosions. I've got to be honest with you.

13:35Siân Brooke:Like metaphorical explosions. But I think if you watch this and you weren't kind of completely like full to the brim of happiness with the end of Colin from Accounts, I don't know what more you could have wanted. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, certainly, yeah. Okay, good. James, have you, with the passage of time, decided that it was an excellent finale?

13:54Ziggy:No, there was nothing wrong with the finale. It just wasn't like, it wasn't any different to the others. And that's fine. I was maybe surprised because I thought it would maybe go in a slightly, it would have a different tone to it. I think it wraps it up in a very, in a kind of circular way. I think there's definitely a wrapping up of it and a resolution to it. It's not like it just ends. I don't mean that. I don't mean it doesn't have a conclusion. It has a conclusion. I just wonder, because oftentimes with especially with sitcoms they often feel that they need to go out with a metaphorical bang uh and uh not an actual explosion steph i cannot emphasize that enough um but this one you know but it is it is quite sweet i'm very glad they didn't go with the whole you know death slash great day and ending yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna make a point about that that

14:34Siân Brooke:i think that we exclusively revealed that alternate ending and we clipped it up and it's on socials and actually it's like a lot of people like oh because he explains that ending like the whole scene and I think it's you know just patting ourselves on the back for that one

14:48Ziggy:also just to say that the best one of the best episodes ever which is obviously the sex party sex drug sex party episode which lands roughly in the middle it's so good that you know because I said before sometimes in the eight part series each season is of this show sometimes there's a little bit of a dip in the middle but that episode is so amazing absolutely genius so good yeah so that's fantastic I've got quite a few so I'll try and breeze through I have checked out so you don't have to Monster the Lizzie Borden story Oh everyone's talking about that

15:18Siân Brooke:Everyone's talking about it In a good or a bad way That it's shocking

15:23Ziggy:It's shocking, it's outrageous, it's camp It's key Ryan Murphy It's peak Ryan Murphy Of course he's not actually involved creatively He's just exec producer And it's his associates that have written and directed it and stuff But it's so madly ridiculous Of course it starts with the murders right that's the first episode first scene then it flashes back four months earlier wherever it is um but what all i'll say is i actually enjoyed a lot of it in a in a twisted demented way mainly because of rebecca hall so rebecca hall plays the matriarch who hates she's the second um second wife of charlie hunnam's character and it's that and it's his daughter who's ends up being the the monster, Lizzie Borden.

16:10Ziggy:And Rebecca Hall is so enjoying herself, and she's having such a wild time that you kind of go along with her. So all the scenes with her in, and she dominates it pretty much to start with. There's these dinners they have. Oh, I saw a clip of a dinner. Yeah. Or the spring soup in the face of the mate.

16:27Siân Brooke:That's the clip I saw, which I thought, oh, my God, she's loving this.

16:30Ziggy:And there's so much more that came from. The first episode has an insane obsession with menstruation. and it's like, it's so weird and bizarre things to seize upon and they just go for it so relentlessly that you're kind of browbeaten by it and it's full of mad stuff like that. I've only watched three episodes but I don't feel a great urge to carry on. Of course it's completely too long, it's insanely long and indulgent but there is fun to be had as well and it's not as bad as the last one. Ed Gein. Ed Gein is positively offensive whereas this is just, because it's quite for the crime quite distant you know it's like it's so long ago oh yeah let's remember

17:10Siân Brooke:this did actually happen so you know this is true crime

17:14Ziggy:but many you know like centuries ago but 1900s yeah so that feels less offensive or less intrinsically exploitative because you know there aren't people still around whereas there were in most of the other yeah I mean

17:26Siân Brooke:that's why we can all talk about Jack the Ripper in like such a fun way and people go on Jack the Ripper tours like do you know what I mean the fun of Jack the Ripper but they do they don't they and actually when you see the crime photos like this is fucking terrible but like everyone's like let's go on a jack the ripper tour and see exactly all these crime scenes which is insane i've been on jack the ripper tour well there you

17:42Ziggy:go it was on a date pace and point true story what and crucially i did not plan it it was not my idea it should that was a red flag yeah yeah let's go this fun jack the ripper tour element the passage of time does lessen the horror it does absolutely does yeah um so that was that um and and then um in kind of broader tv um uh i of course hosted the 70 tracer screening

18:09Siân Brooke:earlier in the week and oh did you i didn't know you're doing that oh my god how did it go it went very well thank you yeah did you wear a robe boydy i didn't wear a robe no but um claudia

18:19Ziggy:interviewed claudia on stage and the producer and um ed gamble who hosts the uncloaked show and claudia was in absolutely brilliant form she was so funny well she's going to be really happy

18:30Siân Brooke:Now, one of my favourite quotes that I've ever heard from Claudia is about how she hates summer because she hates summer clothes, right? So it's like her most hated thing. And I saw a picture of her the other day where she was in full autumnal dress. And I'm telling you, her spirits were high. In her face, I could see. I was like, this is her season. This is absolutely her season.

18:49Ziggy:Yeah, she's loving it. But I can't say anything about it because it's heavily embargoed. Okay. But it's on Thursday, October 1st is the first episode. Extra long, 75 minutes because so much happens. And it is, all I would say is, if you think, how could they top Series 1? Oh, my God. It just is extraordinary. It's so funny and mad. And the cast is so incredible. James' soul looks like it's left his body.

19:13Siân Brooke:But I'm going to watch it this season, so we can talk about it.

19:16Ziggy:We should force James to watch some of it. I don't know how. Got lots of people in the cast who you'd probably like. Well, that's another matter. It's fine. It's fine.

19:22Siân Brooke:Bella Ramsey. He loves Bella Ramsey.

19:24Ziggy:I'm mainly talking about Bella Ramsey, who's adorable, by the way. That's not a spoiler. oh no she seems adorable yeah she's fantastic and I have to mention Nigella on Bake Off so Nigella Lawson James you may have heard of her she almost won a BAFTA the audience award for saying Microwave yes I remember because you voted for that moment of the year yeah absolutely they did a brilliant to welcome her into the show to welcome her to the show did you see it Stephanie are you a Bake Off fan?

19:56Siân Brooke:no I love Bake Off but I just haven't had time to catch up with it.

19:59Ziggy:Yeah, you're a busy woman. They did a Doctor Who sketch, so they kind of regenerated Prude Leaf into her. What? And really game of Prude Leaf to take part, because she's the exiting, you know, judge.

20:10Siân Brooke:Yeah, I love Prude Leaf.

20:11Ziggy:So, yeah, she went into the TARDIS, and she came out as Nigella. It was really good. It was really funny. Oh, my God.

20:17Siân Brooke:Have you ever been to the Bake Off tent, Boyd?

20:19Ziggy:I have, yeah, years ago.

20:20Siân Brooke:I've been to the Bake Off tent, and it was one of the greatest days of my life.

20:23Ziggy:Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, I did a big feature years ago. right at this height yeah but she's totally nigel is so brilliant she's completely revitalized it she's fantastic she's as good as we'd all expect her to be she's so great but one thing i want to say is the contestants are really interesting this year and there's one guy called mo watch out for mo you will love him he's so funny he's this like deadpan kind of like um he just kind of like mysteriously kind of like he's amazing baker and he's such a mysterious figure he's so funny it's fantastic so he is the star of the show possibly even more than um nigella but there you go and finally finally i might have been said have you been said we haven't discussed this i don't think off air but i think i may have access to the diplomat you think you may have access to

21:10Siân Brooke:the diplomat you don't know no he has because he's watched it with his eyes depending on whether or not you do have as well i haven't but i don't as you know as your pa as the pa for both of you i I don't get sent anything until I scream and shout.

21:23Ziggy:That's true. That is true. Have you got it? I've got some episodes, not the whole thing, but some episodes.

21:28Siân Brooke:James?

21:29Ziggy:Have you watched said episodes? I've watched the trailers, James, yeah. You've watched the trailers? Well, I can officially say I've watched all four of the episodes.

21:37Siân Brooke:Oh, my God.

21:38Ziggy:You've got such a good poker face.

21:41Siân Brooke:I was like, oh, he seems cross, but I'm not sure. Oh, wow. Yeah, so have I.

21:46Ziggy:Okay. They only gave us half the season. I must admit, I was a little bit entitled and disappointed that they only got a cross. Of course. Of course. But yes, I mainline them all.

21:54Siân Brooke:I didn't get any, guys. So I'm just letting you know, you should feel good about yourself. I'm obsessed with that show.

21:58Ziggy:Utterly obsessed with it. It's incredible. Just when you think, how can they top? It's just incredible. So that is what I've been watching. Wow, you've had a great week of watching. Yeah, it's been a good time. You have. When did you get your Diplomat episodes?

22:15Siân Brooke:Oh, there we go.

22:16Ziggy:Still going on. Still going on. you want to make sure you got them before i did let's say i got them yesterday

22:29Ziggy:yeah that's brilliant that is brilliant jesus right okay once again i haven't got them guys

22:34Siân Brooke:so you know i don't have them at all no okay no that's true okay but james apart from the dipton at four episodes which you got in advance what have you been watching what have i been

22:46Ziggy:watching uh i have been reluctantly plodding along with star trek strange new worlds i got to the end of the soap opera episode and it was a slog um there's i'm just can i just say can i just say

22:56Siân Brooke:james you know my trekkie friends right my trekkie friends two of them given up they're not doing it

23:01Ziggy:i'm not surprised no way on the uh on the empire podcast for those of you who subscribe to empire plus there will be a ranking going up uh we did this star trek ranking where we ranked all of the tv shows in order so that's uh that there were some fun discussions to be had there um but um I was asked to take part in that, but then I pointed out to Chris Hewitt that I hadn't actually seen any of the other Star Trek. It's shocking. I just watched the OG series. Yeah, actually shocking. So this soap opera episode, right? So first of all, it's got, is it Deirdre Hall in it? I think she's from Days of Our Lives.

23:31Ziggy:And it has this whole Days of Our Lives thing. So it's very specifically keyed into Days of Our Lives. Soap operas as a whole, but really that one. And the idea of it is actually quite clever. and when pike is on screen because he's a straight man who knows he's in a soap opera and he's just like oh my god like he's reacting to the soap opera acting and dialogue and the sort of like vaseline on the lens type stuff in a very kind of like dry what the fuck is going on kind of way that stuff is funny but when he's not on screen you have just characters interacting in a soap opera style and the problem with that is it's terrible and of course it's terrible it's deliberately terrible so isn't this terrible yes it is but you're still making us watch it for the better part of 50 minutes so it's just terrible so whenever he's not on screen it becomes quite draining and i must admit i struggle with it and obviously trelane is back reese darby he's quite fun in that role as the uh we don't call him q but he is a q so yeah i i the only thing that salvaged that episode for me was a pike and then b there is a really nice kind of emotional beat towards the end for Pike, which I thought was actually quite nice.

24:37Ziggy:But there are two episodes left for me. One is a straight episode and the last one, the finale, is another fucking stupid gimmick one. What is the gimmick? What kind of gimmick do you know? Remember the fantasy one where they're all dressed up in medieval clothes? It's another one of those.

24:53Siân Brooke:I will just say, and this is going to sound really strange, I haven't watched them, right? But your descriptions of them, even though you're a bit down on them, make me want to watch them even more. Yeah, I'm so popular, yeah. Yeah, so popular sounds really good. And I haven't watched the Muppet one, and I really want to watch that, but I've been watching other things. But yeah, I mean, you're really good at describing something and making people want to watch it, even though you say that it's terrible.

25:18Ziggy:Maybe your superpower. Maybe it is. But I mean, look, they're not in and of themselves terrible things. And if there were a couple per season, you'd be like, okay, fine, you know, this is quite clever. But because it is constant, so every other episode is just a little bit wearing. Anyway, enough about Star Trek. the other things i've been watching is ted lasso which i've now watched right up until the finale i haven't watched the finale but i've seen everything except the finale um and i think they've made some big errors with this and the biggest error of them all is tracy ulman who is so fucking irritating that i genuinely cannot cope whenever she's on screen but i'm starting to think

25:55Siân Brooke:that's deliberate yeah i mean we did talk about tracy ulman we love tracy ulman as a human being Less so now. But we did talk about the fact that this is, like, she is being uber-uber-ulman. She is. And that is deliberate. I know.

26:09Ziggy:And it is a deliberate choice, but I'm really, really, like, it makes me, like, furious whenever she's on screen. So I'm struggling with that. What was weird is she had a guest role in Curve across a lot of episodes, and she was amazing. But he created this character pretty much, especially for her, who is really over the top. And, but kind of within that context, I do think her character in this, from what I've seen, I've seen early stuff of her, is a bit much. Because the rest of the show kind of has a realism to it, a basic realism to it. Like everyone does stuff that kind of makes sense. And everyone's a little exaggerated, but she's so unbelievable and over the top.

26:47Ziggy:It's like she's in a different show. And also annoying. And she is in a different show. So I'm not enjoying that performance at all. The other thing, I do think the misstep that I think they have made is they're playing it safe. in that they are leaning too much into the OG characters and not exploring the new characters enough. And I do think that is a mistake because, you know, don't get me wrong, Brett Goldstein is fantastic. Juno Temple is great, but I'm so over the Roy Keighley stuff. I just don't care. And they are forefronting that a lot. There's a lot more Leslie in this. You know, you've got a lot of, I just, I feel like I want to see more of the players.

27:18Ziggy:There's a whole thing about Gemma's injury, which is quite interesting, but there's not enough about the new players. I want them to be forefronted more, want them to have much more screen time because I'm just not as interested in the OG characters as I think maybe they think we are, or at least think I am. Maybe they don't care, I don't know. But yeah, I would like to see less Keely Roy stuff and more, let's delve into these players a bit more. Let's find out more about the new characters.

27:42Siân Brooke:I need to finish it because I really want to give my opinion on this because I love the Keely and Roy thing and I know lots of people have said that they felt it was tired, but I need to know. Okay. Well, that's interesting. I'm surprised that that's the thing you've carried on watching though.

27:55Ziggy:well you know i wanted some feel good fun uh and that's traditionally what ted lasso delivers except when tracy omans on screen and um the other thing i have been watching is the finale of this third season of lioness which was great uh i really enjoyed lioness is so good and uh i was texting with terry terry white formerly of this parish uh last night and she has become a taylor sheridan convert she's she's banged through yellowstone and loved it and she's loving lioness as well

28:23Siân Brooke:we need i i'm gonna message her oh my god that's so exciting yeah yeah oh my god you know what oh my god she's such a beth she's such a beth oh my god she's got big beth dotting energy yeah she has

28:35Ziggy:oh this is exciting okay she's had some kind of like gastric flu so she's not at the best time but she's caught up on a lot of telly what she's been uh you know otherwise yeah i was gonna say

28:45Siân Brooke:it's down to the gastric flu okay lioness has been very big not for me i am gonna watch it i am going to watch it but i have got to finish mayor of kingstown before season five and that is

28:55Ziggy:literally that is imminent i've got to start mayor of kingstown oh you have i know i know that is possibly i think it's number one on the sofa list so i think it's very high good yeah okay and then

29:06Siân Brooke:we can do our special i know right so yeah it's been very big in my house and then i watched one recently and leon was like watched was walking past and he was like look look look look you need to watch this and his reason for wanting me to watch it was that zoe saldana had basically cut her head in exactly the same way as i did yeah he was like zomi sultana's got a got a you and i was like okay i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna watch this now because i want to know how she did it

29:28Ziggy:was it a bathroom who knows i couldn't possibly tell you because this is a spoiler but yes uh it was it was a really good season as they all are but yeah love lioness so so good week for

29:37Siân Brooke:for me and tv great god we've all had quite a good week really yeah very different ways it's

29:42Ziggy:been pretty good what a good what a good what a good week what a good sum up yeah the situation we also had a pretty good week podcast wise because we got to meet ziggy stardust now this week's guest uh is of course the delightful sean brooke who we mentioned last week because she came in to talk about the fourth series of blue lights and she brought with her a very special guest which is her miniature sausage dog the aforementioned ziggy stardust uh and and ziggy was an absolute delight and licked me and indeed all of us a lot um but as we mentioned last week right so Steph was banned from this interview you know right absolutely banned so that Boyd and I could get a chance to be the favourite uh only two and this is absolutely true and I know I've already mentioned this but I really do think it bears repeating she turned up after the interview had finished no in fact let me rephrase that she turned up as the interview was still ongoing towards the end and started like gesticulating wildly through the door and then went into the adjacent studio and started like waving at us through the window and I pointedly ignored her i didn't know you could see me could you see that's why i continue waving it's not one way glass

30:47Siân Brooke:and you know what i would say because in the other studio there's the magic the man who's the magic presenter and he's really lovely and we were having a great chat about dogs and i was waving madly and i was like do you know what i don't think they can see me

30:59Ziggy:you're just ignoring me just ignoring you and he was like just keep waving and i was like yeah we'll do well we wanted to finish the interview because we were wrapping it up at this point so Boydie and I had a lovely interview and then at the end of it Steph runs in immediately befriends not only the dog but Sian and within the space of about 10 minutes Boyd and I completely forgotten and Steph is now Sian's new best friend and this this has to stop yes we bonded over you know

31:26Siân Brooke:dead dogs and stuff and we both at the same time the best the best thing which sounds awful right is we both at the same time talked about kind of the deafening silence which you've had a dog in And we were both tapping on the desk in the same way. We were like, yeah, because then you don't hear this. And we did the tappy-tappy on the desk. And we looked at each other. And that's when I knew. I was like, this is the woman for me.

31:46Ziggy:Your method is to emotionally devastate the guest by bringing up.

31:50Siân Brooke:I mean, it's the second time I've bonded with a guest over like, I mean, it's, you know, like, you know. We just talk about dead dogs. Just, you know, just throw it in. Yeah, it's fine. Because then there's always a lovely story. And the other point is, and I saw a quote about this on Instagram really weirdly, is that um because obviously everything's listening to you is that my main aim in life is to be every dog's favorite person and as soon as i came in the dog came to me so i was like you know i was very very happy but she was just she was lovely and she's wonderful we had a little chat on the way out and it was great and i talked to her pr about musicals and the whole thing was just wonderful i it was a really really lovely day right so boydie my suggestion is some kind of

32:33Ziggy:perimeter, right? Some kind of barrier, some kind of legally enforced restraining order which just keeps Steph away from all guests. Like, she's not allowed within, I don't know, what, 20 feet or something? I think that's reasonable.

32:44Siân Brooke:It's like as it is in life. Like, someone is, if they don't like me, then they absolutely hate me. So don't worry, we're going to get a load of guests who are going to be like, never again. She's awful. Why does she stop talking? There you go.

32:57Ziggy:Steph, who hates you? No one hates you, apart from maybe the makers of The Vampire the Stat. Who really hates you?

33:02Siân Brooke:that's a that's like a lot of people the fan gang are not fans of Steph yeah oh my god James do you know what can I at this point can I just read you this really lovely message that I got from someone you know I you know I know you're very familiar I like to give my insta friends a little bit of a shout out and I got this lovely message they're just so so sweet okay and right okay people always message me about um you know murder she wrote and stuff like that which I really thoroughly enjoy but right now it doesn't like i can't i don't know the surname i'm gonna say maybe it's kate because it's kate thornton but it's not kate thornton the actual the actual one kate thornton

33:39Ziggy:right okay good to know you sure it's not kate thornton i know it's definitely not but how sweet

33:43Siân Brooke:is this not only like so they said hi steph it's official i always thought i was a diehard james fan with his endearing nerdy ways and love of sci-fi guiding my viewing choices how cute is that by the way however you have converted me and now i am an official steph c fan i know i was like that is so and i did message back going that is unbelievably flattering but can you know basically obviously ridiculous of course um but then the great thing is she said if you can't afford the bridgerton lego for james for christmas you can go for the equally awesome bridgerton poly pocket and poly pocket do you know i'm sure neither of you know what these is like poly pockets like they make these like everything's teeny tiny and you put it in your pocket and you can take it places and they've made a bridgerton set and oh my god it is sensational i was like

34:34Ziggy:is there rapid nudity in the bridgerton set there is no rapid nudity because it is for children well they haven't really captured the magic of the show yeah how many kids are wanting a bridgerton polly pocket because presumably they'd need to have watched bridgerton exactly yeah but

34:49Siân Brooke:you just cut out all those bits and i suppose if you want to make the tiny people have sex on the stairs that's up to you i don't know what you're doing in spare time but how cute is that it's so

34:58Ziggy:sweet anyway has broken up with me this is no and i say this because i like as i say it's just

35:04Siân Brooke:literally a trickle of people who send me nice things but the other amazing message i got this week right and i think it's because i said if people message me and say get well then i get

35:13Ziggy:to the show yeah no but it's really like listen like you come on you have to give these like they

35:19Siân Brooke:take the time to message and it's really really sweet right okay so literally this message from from my new friend josh right josh woodcraft and he said morning morning full stop i hope you get better soon full stop in brackets i'm sending this because i want to see the injury photos and i just said and i just sent them to him i was like fine that's it yeah i i i have so many

35:46Ziggy:questions about this there's something so sordid about this you're getting like people are soliciting you for wound porn and you're just sending them these pictures it's crashed all over again i think you need to set up an only fans and just embrace this properly because you could really be making

36:01Siân Brooke:some proper money out of this no i love them i love these guys they're so sweet and there is only a very small number of them so it's just like yeah they are they're lovely you're taking

36:09Ziggy:par on your own David Cronenberg film. You really are. It's processing.

36:15Siân Brooke:Sorry, you were introducing Sian. Yes, we were.

36:18Ziggy:Yes, we were. That is what was happening. Okay, Sian Brooke, who came in to talk blue lights and brought her little dog with her. Here we go. Welcome to the podcast. And not just you, of course. You do have a guest with you. You do have a friend with you.

36:32Siân Brooke:I do.

36:33Ziggy:Can we see?

36:34Siân Brooke:Should I lift him up?

36:35Ziggy:Yes, absolutely. We definitely need to get him on camera.

36:37Siân Brooke:The public wants to see you.

36:38Ziggy:It's what the public demand.

36:39Siân Brooke:This is Ziggy. Oh, don't lick my face, Ziggy.

36:44Ziggy:He clearly wants to lick your face.

36:46Siân Brooke:He's a face licker. Yeah, he's a licker. Yeah, he sort of interferes in your personal space far too much.

36:52Ziggy:He's so cute. It's incredible.

36:54Siân Brooke:He is. He's our little family guy, aren't you? He's four years old, believe it or not.

37:00Ziggy:Really?

37:00Siân Brooke:Yeah. Everyone thinks he's a puppy. He looks like a puppy. Yeah. The eternal puppy.

37:06Ziggy:It's the first dog I think we've actually had live on the podcast. No, for a while. we had didn't Roshi Roshi Connors that was many years ago that was about five years ago what dog was it it was like a tiny little white fluffy thing smaller smaller than Ziggy yeah white and fluffy I remember that and had an excellent name which I've obviously forgotten

37:22Siân Brooke:smaller than Ziggy

37:23Ziggy:yeah genuinely yeah smaller than Ziggy

37:25Siân Brooke:stop it don't do that but I can't believe you could get anything smaller than him but there we go I think you're like

37:33Ziggy:you know Chihuahua somewhere in the middle of Chihuahua and Ziggy is

37:37Siân Brooke:was the dog cuter No, no, no. Of course not. Of course not. Absolutely. Never say that. Ziggy is, of course, the best.

37:43Ziggy:He's definitely the cutest dog. Number one point. Absolutely. That's fantastic. Oh, yes. We should have a compulsory dogs policy, I think, on the podcast. This is what we should do going forward. You have to bring a dog, but you can't come on like that. Do you bring him to set? Is he around when you're filming?

37:58Siân Brooke:He's come a few times. He's come down to base, unit base. I've never brought him on to set because I always worry that he might go,

38:09Ziggy:you know you feel so responsible

38:11Siân Brooke:it's sort of like when my children come to set I feel slightly heightened sort of sense of responsibility in terms of like yes just behave just behave don't make any noise so yeah so he hasn't been to set but he has been to unit base and stuff

38:24Ziggy:I love that he's so licky he's like very much you look tasty it's like I know

38:28Siân Brooke:if there's any skin on show he'll just lick it so he'll be like that no stop it stop it

38:33Ziggy:that is fantastic we were lucky enough to get the first three episodes of the season which was very, very exciting. We watched them, well, I certainly watched them into late last night. I was devastated whether it wasn't a fourth. And it reminded me how much I am obsessed with this show in that, and I remember we said this when it first dropped, it's like it's a police show. There are no shortage of police shows, but there's something fundamentally different of the texture of this show. And it is partly the setting. It's the kind of the, you know, the sectarian violence and the kind of the sort of the geography and the political geography of Belfast.

39:03But also, it feels old school in a kind of human slash community policing angle.

39:11Ziggy:Do you know what I mean? Like there's a sense that it's about people and people rather than cops and criminals. Does that make sense?

39:16Siân Brooke:Yeah, I do think I get that. It's sort of been, you know, when we made it originally, series one, I don't think anybody sort of knew what it was until we saw after the edit how they brought it all together. and I think the thing is I think it's just great characters you know and they've really invested in that they've sort of crafted those so brilliantly that people sort of latch onto those and invest in them as an audience member but yeah it does work and I think also as you say the backdrop of Belfast and its complex sort of history sort of is a major I would say like a character within the show itself and so it sort of sets it apart in terms of that I think.

40:05Ziggy:How much of that do you absorb when you're kind of living there doing the show because it has a very different feel doesn't it Belfast?

40:11Siân Brooke:Oh I love it there, I love it. I mean it's been part of my life for the last four years and I miss it when I'm not there. It's got a really unique energy in Belfast. they're sort of and and i love it mostly because of the people they have the biggest hearts they also take the mick like nobody else they're so like they won't you know they don't suffer fools um and and that is like an undercurrent you know through the show i think the sense of humor that it has is very unique to belfast does that help when you're filming because

40:56Ziggy:this series starts with a massive set piece thing with dozens, maybe hundreds of extras, people throwing bricks at you, surrounded by antagonists. And it's epic. It's an epic sequence. I sit there thinking, how do they do this thing? How do they film it? So that people pretending to be loyalists, people pretending to be anti-immigration protesters, it's so viscerally real. So does it help the fact that everyone surrounding you has a sense of humour about it?

41:26Siân Brooke:to film those sequences yeah i think so i think um i think it's also really well loved there right so there is an excitement about being involved in it because it it hasn't shied away from you know the sort of past of northern ireland it hasn't shied away from the messiness it sort of confronted it you know front on and it's sort of um it's also a love letter to that place because it's written by two wonderful writers who grew up there um and i think therefore people's involvement in it it's a local show it's homegrown so when they are on set they're excited

42:13Ziggy:to be in it to be part of it and logistically that i'm obsessed with because each the last few series have opened with big set pieces haven't they um logistically how what is it like filming that those kind of scenes with so much going on and you're kind of in the middle of it it must be

42:28Siân Brooke:bizarre yes it is it's sort of but i think it probably isn't as high octane as everybody is okay it looks high octane i think when it all comes together right you know thankfully it does look like that but because those set pieces they have to logistically be broken down into so many different segments so you will shoot that over two possibly three days um but two if you're having to be ambitious but we have an incredible crew director angela griffin who shot that sequence at the beginning of episode one um but it is you know as actors you sort of everybody has their part within that set piece so you're very much like oh we're doing that one repeating that bit for a half a day okay yeah and my brain gets bored quite easily so yeah but the pieces that i love are like there'll be certain car crash sequences should i say um and i love watching I love watching other people's craft.

43:38Siân Brooke:I find it, you know, the stunt team are so remarkable on this show. So when they come in, I find that, you know, because it's something that I don't do.

43:49Ziggy:There is a maxim, isn't there, certainly in filmmaking, that as an actor, the more exciting it is on screen, the less exciting it is to actually shoot.

43:56Siân Brooke:Absolutely, because you're the one that's having too much fun. Do you know what I mean? And it doesn't often translate, so everybody else is like, they're having all the fun.

44:05Ziggy:It also feels like to me, because we're talking about in series one, we didn't really know what it was. It was really focused on you pivoting, wasn't it? From social work to becoming a police person in Northern Ireland. That was the focus. And since then, it's become bigger and more ambitious every series. It's become this epic thing now. That must be weird. We couldn't have been expecting anything like the kind of show it's become.

44:29Siân Brooke:No, I had no idea. I had no idea where it was going to go. as I say when me and Martin McCann who play Stevie you know when we're in the middle of it because because as I say it is so unique you've got you know the comedy set against these serious issues so you could you could dial that up or dial it down in whatever way and I think then only after seeing the series in its entirety then you went oh okay but in terms of the directions I don't think any of us really knew and I think it's really brave writing because they are always pushing it you know they could have very happily just made it sort of um you know about purely these police officers and their relationships, more of a sort of, I want to say like a domestic police station, you know, sort of vibe.

45:31Siân Brooke:But the subject matters that they've dealt with, I'm really proud to be part of it in terms of, I feel how it might have opened people's eyes or given people a greater understanding without, you know, banging them around their head.

45:53Ziggy:It's so topical, isn't it? Yeah. Especially this series, more than ever. Like that, the anti-immigration demos, I mean, they're happening now. That is extraordinary, isn't it? That is extraordinary.

46:05Siân Brooke:You know, but that just goes to show in terms of the writing, how much they have their finger on the pulse. So that was all filmed in March. and then sadly all these sort of public order you know cases sort of came upon in May over in Belfast and you do think gosh that's quite that's quite incredible that it's captured that you know so brilliantly yeah so hopefully I think people again I'm gonna say again And for me, the great thing about this show is that it doesn't shy away from situations that are happening right now. And gives people more of an understanding about how nuanced these situations can be.

46:58Siân Brooke:And I hope that Blue Light sort of does that with this.

47:02Ziggy:Well, it shows you the things that work, but also the things I think that don't work. Because I think when we meet Grace, she's very disillusioned with her previous career and sort of social care. and you kind of get the feeling a lot of times that she's becoming increasingly disillusioned with her work as a police officer as well because she's very idealistic and she wants it to be a certain way and I think she's hitting against those institutional barriers and the kind of realities of modern policing, right? So we've seen her kind of almost get to where she was at the beginning but with policing as opposed to her previous professional.

47:31Siân Brooke:Yeah, you're so true. It's like she is. She's extremely idealistic. So she starts out And I think she gets sort of disheartened with social work and realises she can't make the changes that she wants to because that's, you know, an innate part of her character is that she is somebody who wants to fight to make things different. This doesn't operate properly. This is not. And so that's what she thinks she can do in policing. And I think especially throughout this series, you know, you've seen her disillusioned, but I think this time it's sort of she almost totally gives up this time around, which I think that's actually quite great and sort of realistic in terms of somebody only has, you know, a certain amount of resilience.

48:24Siân Brooke:And I think, yeah, she reaches that point in this series.

48:27Ziggy:I think she's been a brilliant viewpoint, actually, as a window into this world. Because at the beginning, when she comes in, being English, you know, and being in a world where she is slightly out of her comfort zone and encountering things like double OBs, like something's out of bounds. Like, what the hell is that when it's at home?

48:42Siân Brooke:Yeah, I was like, what is all this? What is this?

48:46Ziggy:And how it kind of intersects policing with the security services and sort of all the various sort of like vestiges of the troubles. And, you know, as an English person watching it, obviously I'm aware of the troubles and whatnot, but I had no idea how much that changed the topography of kind of modern policing in Northern Ireland. Like, that's incredibly eye-opening stuff.

49:04Siân Brooke:Yeah, I remember, yeah, I do think, you know, in that respect, I have to put my hands up, and before we started, I didn't realise that they were the only force that carried guns. And, you know, so I thought, okay, so that immediately puts another level upon them and the dangers that they put themselves in. But it really does inform the way that they police and that in turn informs how unique this is as a police drama. But yeah, I think part of the reason why she works as a character is that she was an outsider. her so she was able to sort of throw away the rule book in a way um because she had naivety on her side in you know in a really odd way she just went well why can't we do that why can't we just push three barriers um and then as the series has progressed you see her being slightly worn down in terms of you know reality meets idealism and she goes well okay I have to play the game here because I have to if we're going to get anything done there's a sweet spot.

50:25Ziggy:And in this series it feels like more than ever she's really being, she's really facing nightmare situations left, right and centre. Yeah. There's a lot she has to do with more than ever.

50:35Siân Brooke:On a personal level she is threatened you know in terms of her I would say her safety is put at risk um and and also she meets this young girl and I think with Grace it's always been this thing she's been able to connect with people to connect in order to make a change and she can't do that with this girl she's like

51:08Ziggy:impeligible

51:09Siân Brooke:and I think Grace just finds that really sort of it freezes her and then also this girl in turn edits sort of appearance to the world you know what I mean and so excellent spoiler navigation

51:26Ziggy:how can I tell you

51:28Siân Brooke:it's like a social media

51:29Ziggy:she's kind of via social media she paints a portrait of you of you of Grace which is obviously simplistic. Yeah. In the middle of the discussion.

51:40Siân Brooke:And for Grace, I think she has relished the fact that she has always been able to put out into the world a portrait of herself that is, you know, very principled and a good person. And somebody else has come along and sort of twisted that and she can't handle it.

52:03Ziggy:It feels so authentic, the show. like every single scene of i mean you know we have no idea if it is but i'm assuming it's but do you have people on set you know people checking everything is correct and yeah yeah yeah right

52:15Siân Brooke:from right from the get-go we've always had people on set um we've you know had a police advisor that's been with us since um series one and and they've become part of blue lights itself and so if there's certain storylines that you want to just get under the skin of in terms of how do you respond how would you respond in that situation it's brilliant but also there have been situations where they have had these circumstances happen to them and they've shared information that you go oh my goodness it's it's just again an understanding of these people are just human beings but then you're able to go oh i see and you can digest that and then put it back into the show um so we've been really blessed to have that and i think also it sort of can only make it better

53:18Ziggy:hopefully your dad was police right like so i mean that's it seems to me like that's almost like a gift isn't it because i don't the police work seems like a profession that you cannot possibly understand it from the outside like it's such an opaque thing I think to be on that job, to do that job I can't even imagine what it's like and I just wanted like that must give you an incredible insight into his life and his career just because you're seeing how it all works doing the show

53:44Siân Brooke:It really does I think a greater understanding with my dad's job but the great thing with this show was that I was able to understand that my dad was just a person like any other person walking around in life he was my dad you know he he would make my dinner help me with my homework and so I could see the sort of human side to what that job was and I also was privy to his friends who were he was so close to in that in the force and they would come home and chat and I'd I remember being upstairs um and like sitting on the staircase and if they you know cracked a case or whatever they'd come back and they'd be in the lounge and just chatting and on some unlike you know on high after having done it but the banter was just off the scale so when this show came along in the first episode I read the first episode I was like ah I've not seen that I've not seen that before so that was a big draw for me and then subsequently having watched the show my dad has shared stuff with me because I was you know I was like what I mean my dad I was when I he started I was probably about three and then he worked until I was probably 20 but he he couldn't share stuff with me at that age because it wasn't appropriate and now he's shared these stories and I'm just thinking I had no idea that you were going out and dealing with that situation and then coming home and putting me to bed and you're just like because it covers that a little bit in the show doesn't it the

55:31Ziggy:that kind of division between what is the job and what is your life do you give someone your personal phone number right you know like is that inappropriate but actually you can't just say oh no I'm sorry it's 5.30 I'm done I don't care anymore like that's not realistic is it because

55:45Siân Brooke:people are people well yeah because I think part of you must go into into that job as public service and and there's a reason why because it must be within you so you can't just go oh I'm really sorry I've got to clock off now although having said that I'm sure that you have to do that at some point because otherwise you know it's a compartmentalized for your own sanity yes yeah

56:09Ziggy:There has to be, I'm sure, a degree of that. It's wild. I was thinking, like, shooting a PVC show, how does this compare to doing something like House of the Dragon, which is like HBO with, I mean, the craft services must be off the chain.

56:20Siân Brooke:Oh, my God, yeah. They are. They were really memorable. They were really memorable. I queued up three times. I mean, they're totally different. They're such different beasts. And I enjoyed them both for different reasons. I mean I've loved Blue Lights because you know we were lucky that the BBC championed it and after series 2 when we were filming series 2 they commissioned 3 and 4

56:47Ziggy:which is very unusual

56:49Siân Brooke:it is I mean I've been doing this a long time now and that never ever happens

56:53Ziggy:didn't it get like 7 million viewers at the beginning like that's wild

56:57Siân Brooke:yeah it was like this what's happening I mean incredible so it's been home grown, it's been home grown, it's been nurtured, it's been given the time and the commitment from the BBC so that has been wonderful House of the Dragon was wonderful in another way in that the resources behind a show like that are just phenomenal so one of my massive takeaways from that show was that the craftsmanship is just spectacular. Like, the sets, the props. And my character, though, it was a short... It was short and savage. Yeah. Yeah. Like, honestly, the art department were phenomenal because it was, you know, it was quite gory.

57:54Siân Brooke:There was prosthetics.

57:56Ziggy:It's the wiggiest show on television.

57:58Siân Brooke:Oh, yeah. I loved the wig.

58:00Ziggy:the wigs are amazing they said to me

58:02Siân Brooke:you're a Targaryen I was like oh is that the white is that the white hair so I was like yeah oh wow amazing but yeah so those shows you know give you in terms of the world that you enter you are you're really in there and those sets were phenomenal so so that that was just you know as an actor you sort of can appreciate all of this other craftsmanship and how we do that really well in this country.

58:33Ziggy:And when, talking of huge big shows, the show that I first really saw you in was Sherlock. Do you remember when, yes.

58:41Siân Brooke:Do you remember that? Yes. Was that the round table?

58:43Ziggy:Yes. I couldn't say anything. It was weird. So yeah, just to explain that.

58:47Siân Brooke:That's when I first met you.

58:48Ziggy:That's when we first met you. Who is your character? Yeah. So they wheeled you in, quite rightly. You know, we were all dying to know who you were playing. But we had to be so careful. It was so mysterious. it was like chipping on landmines

59:00Siân Brooke:it was like a round table with lots of journalists and I couldn't really talk about what I was doing it was mad

59:11Ziggy:incredibly exciting and that was such a phenomenon to be thrust into was that kind of like a life changing thing for you it feels away from the outside it really was

59:22Siân Brooke:and I recently met the casting director who cast me in that

59:28Ziggy:And didn't you read multiple times across different characters, but it's all one character?

59:34Siân Brooke:Even nobody told me that it was one character. Which is mad. So I kept going in for like Girl on the Bus and Therapist. And I just kept thinking, oh, they just don't know what to cast me as. And also, I'd just been told that it was sort of, you know, it was just sort of one part and it was just for one episode. so I was like oh okay I'd love to be in Sherlock because I was a huge fan I was genuinely a huge fan before I became part of it and then only towards the end before the final audition did they say this is actually the part you're playing and then you're also playing these people in disguise and I was like oh my god you know pressure and then the final the final audition was just I don't think I've been as nervous for an audition before because it was in this church by the South Punk and they were filming they were filming at that time and I went to Unit Base and then they were like can you just wait here in one of the trailers and I was like okay and it was all so clandestine I was like great and then they drove me from unit base onto the set where they were filming and then it was raining it was all very dramatic and I went into this church um where they got as the unit base and in the atrium sort of of the church in the entranceway was um Benedict and Martin and Amanda all sheltering from the rain in full costume and I just went oh my gosh oh my goodness oh my goodness oh my goodness I went through there and then met with Stephen and yeah and Mark and the rest is history that's very cool I'm so excited

1:01:35Ziggy:what they tell you when you have to do like a press because you know doing press can be weird at the best of times but they're like right okay you're gonna go out there to give you a bunch of journalists you can't tell them anything who you're playing what you're doing anything about it go do you just like I just turned to go like what the fuck like what am I supposed to do this was unusual though because that happens a lot but this very rarely happens where we as well as a general i remember getting an email saying can you come to the bbc at so-and-so time to meet someone who's going to be very prominent in sherlock but we can't say more than that it was literally like

1:02:03Siân Brooke:that for us it was mysterious on both sides it was like really weird because i also hadn't really done any major press things so i just like i have no idea what's happening but i just don't think i I can't say that. But by this point, I've become quite good at not, because I have ever since, I mean, even my agent, when she told me that I'd got the part, couldn't tell me in the office, she had to go to the toilet. Oh, my God. That's how secretive. But Sherlock was, like, Sherlock was...

1:02:35Ziggy:It was the biggest thing. It was Sherlock mania.

1:02:38Siân Brooke:It was just crazy. So it sort of changed TV, British TV in that way. Absolutely, yeah. It was like Beatlemania in terms of, you know. And so, yeah, it was, as I say, so secretive. I couldn't tell anybody. I couldn't tell anyone what I was filming. And I was terrified that something might happen to me. Do you know what I mean? I was like, if I let the cat out of the bag, I'm going to ruin the whole thing.

1:03:07Ziggy:That's incredible. Yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Blue Lights, series four, which is airing very, very soon. and we absolutely love and are obsessed with. So can I wait for you? Tuesday, 29th of September, 9 o 'clock to be precise. Fantastic. Sean, thank you so much for coming on. And also, thank you very much for bringing Ziggy. Yes.

1:03:24Siân Brooke:You're welcome. You did well. Bye, Zig. You didn't make any sounds.

1:03:28Ziggy:He's like, I've listened to better podcasts.

1:03:31Siân Brooke:He's like, you were so boring, Mum. I just fell asleep.

1:03:34Ziggy:That was Sean Brooke and Ziggy before Steph came in and completely, you know, upended the entire interview. But what is it now? It's time for news. Steph, you've got some news, haven't you?

1:03:43Siân Brooke:Right. Okay. Have you watched the new trailer for James Doesn't Want This? Or, as it's more popularly known, Nobody Wants This? What?

1:03:57Ziggy:No, I have not. I've watched another trailer that was more exciting. Another Netflix show, we'll get to that later, but I haven't watched it.

1:04:04Siân Brooke:And the trailer, and I know James was very down on the second season, but the trailer for the trailer, I think you're going to really love this season. I think you could... They've got Sarah Silverman. Have they got headphones yet? They've got Sarah Silverman. They do, yes. That is what you need, okay? There's Sarah Silverman in it. So this is about her kind of trying, you know, beginning, you know, her conversion to Judaism. And it looks absolutely brilliant. And the other thing, which I think is going to make people love this, is the supporting cast are getting bigger roles. Because obviously, is it a spoiler if you haven't watched season two?

1:04:38Siân Brooke:Certain people broke up in season two. And obviously the sister is, you know, there was two big breakups in season two. It looks so exciting. I think it's going to be the best season yet. I'm really excited about it. And I think it's going to convert you, James, into loving it.

1:04:56Ziggy:Okay. We'll see.

1:04:59Siân Brooke:And the other thing I want to talk about is, and I'm not going to make, I don't want to bang on about how much I moaned about Boyd not being a woman and that's why he didn't understand Ride or Die or the relationships in Ride or Die. But Ride or Die was cancelled, okay so second season was cancelled and there has been a that it's well there has been it's someone's fault and there has been a lot a lot of chatter from hannah from octavia online and lots of people and katie brand actually um did you see that she put out a big kind of statement about the fact that how yes shocking it was that it'd been cancelled even though it was a huge hit and blaming the fact, you know, basically kind of like blaming the patriarchy and saying like, this is a massive show.

1:05:47Siân Brooke:What's happening here? We need to talk about this. And I know these conversations happen everywhere in terms of like female filmmakers. And I really want to get your take because there also was a lot of chatter about if it was going to be picked up by another streamer, which is exciting to me. And they're shopping it and I really hope that it does. They're shopping it to other streamers. Because it was a great show and I've had loads of my pilot instas get in touch and go, yeah, it was an amazing show. Not all women as well. Also men saying it was a fantastic show. Now I know -

1:06:15Ziggy:Can we just say, now amazing and fantastic are two quite large words. Yeah, superlatives. I would say, I would say, it was good. It was good. But with a little bit of a high-pitchedness in the, it was good.

1:06:27Siân Brooke:Like, you know, like that. Well, I would say in a high-pitched voice, I don't know what you're talking about.

1:06:31Ziggy:Here we go. Have you? Because you're really like it. Steph, it wouldn't matter if I'd watched all of it though, because obviously I'm not a woman. Therefore, as you have already dictated, could never properly appreciate it.

1:06:43Siân Brooke:Well, yes, I do think there are layers. As I've said, I do think there are layers of the show that resonate more with women who are in the midst of fantastic female friendships. But I use those superlatives because that is what it deserves. Now, had either of you watched all of it, then I would respect your opinions about it. I'm not sure you would. No, I probably wouldn't. But I am interested for your take on this. Yeah.

1:07:10Ziggy:I didn't like the show. I did not like the show. I mean, no need did I not. I think it's great. I actively did not dislike it, right? So, yeah. But I totally respect what Katie Brown has said about it. And I thought her post was really interesting. Because we don't know these things. But she said it's been a big hit among audiences. And they did get pretty good reviews, generally. I would say I was a bit of an outlier, not taking to it particularly. So it does seem weird that such a show with such these two big stars did seem to do well, and it's not the kind of thing that Amazon – Amazon's got a lot of fairly blokey stuff.

1:07:49Ziggy:Katie Brand, by the way, is a brilliant force for women working in this industry. Yeah, she's a legend, yeah. So I just totally respect what she's saying. I just didn't particularly personally like the show. You're not a woman. You, as you yourself explained, partly because probably I'm a man. I'm not a woman. So that's my take on it, yeah, is that it's a very interesting thing for her to post. But, yeah, I didn't like the show.

1:08:12Siân Brooke:James, over to you to say something wonderful.

1:08:16Ziggy:I quite liked it. I thought it was decent. I didn't press on with it because I felt it was a bit insubstantial. But I thought it was fun and I thought it did what it wanted to do pretty well. It was quite likeable. So I had no ill feelings towards it. then it is a shame when shows like that get cancelled and yet other shows that are terrible

1:08:32Siân Brooke:continue but do you think that behind this all is a load of men in a boardroom going we don't want

1:08:38Ziggy:this show do you think that that's the crux of it very possibly i suspect it's more likely that whatever it did or whatever audience it got whatever it did not align with whatever incredibly tedious corporate objectives they had for it okay yeah exactly it's more i think that literally Actually, some executive, the head of content at Amazon Prime Video, got his daily results of how many people watched it, who watched it, what the demographic breakdown was, did they stay watching the whole series, blah, blah, blah, all of this stuff they would have looked at. And in the end, there's a ruthlessness to the streamers that can be quite shocking.

1:09:14Ziggy:And in this case, I think it was, just because it seemed like a bit of a dream project for everyone involved.

1:09:19Siân Brooke:Okay. James, crucial question. is the first episode which i believe is the only one you've watched of ride or die is it is it is it better than a single episode in the latest season of reacher oh that's that's that's a

1:09:38Ziggy:horrible question and that is why i've asked it yes i would say it is definitely better than several of the episodes from the most recent season of Reacher.

1:09:50Siân Brooke:Reacher, which is on season five?

1:09:52Ziggy:I think it's four. But Reacher also, Reacher is a monstrous success for them. So it does really well. I'll make one other observation, which is a good point about Reacher, is I think one of the problems with the show, what was it called again? Ride or die. Ride or die, boy. Ride or die. Ride or die. While that women's show, you know the one. No, don't steady. don't put that don't put those words in there you know i can't remember the i can't remember the title of any show that is true that is true yeah but my what what's the i think part of the problem is women will watch shows written by and about and starring men men will not watch shows straight men will not watch shows written directed by and starring just hashtag not all men but yes i know exactly what you're saying yes yeah and that's that's been widely reported yeah it's what It's the same with books.

1:10:43Ziggy:Men won't read female-centred books. It's pathetic. It's funny, isn't it, with this idea that women can empathise with everyone, but men can only empathise with other men. Yeah, it's sad and embarrassing, but I think it's true. And I think that is the other thing that probably contributed to, and men probably making the fucking decisions as well.

1:11:01Siân Brooke:I think that is an absolutely excellent observation and is very true. And God, you know, women are just so great because we just like space for everyone. And you lot, you're just rubbish. And that's where we should end that discussion. But thank you. Okay.

1:11:18Ziggy:Hard to disagree. I have a bit of news for you. Any of you are Robert Ludlam fans? No? Okay, fine. But anyway. Talking of male-centered. Speaking of male-centered, you can't get more male-centered in terms of books than Robert Ludlam. But the superlatively titled The Parsifal Mosaic, which I swear to God if you went online if you went online and you tried to find a Robert Ludlam title generator this is the kind of shit that you would get the Parsifal Mosaic the Parsifal what? the Parsifal Mosaic

1:11:52Siân Brooke:I don't even know what's Parsifal I don't even know what that means you don't know either

1:11:56Ziggy:that's also very Dan Brown it's very Dan Brown oh it is it's all these again it's a very male author thing it's the the something something and it's just like whatever it is it's some kind of random MacGuffin and lots of people get shot in the pursuit of said MacGuffin.

1:12:10Siân Brooke:I need to know Parsifal.

1:12:12Ziggy:Parsifal. Parsifal. Parsifal. P-A-R-S-I-F - A-L. The Parsifal mosaic. Anyway, Hulu have commissioned an adaptation of this particular book and it will be starring Sam Worthington and Sophia Carson. Would you like to know the official synopsis? Yes, please. Wait for it. After years of dangerous field work for the CIA, Michael Havelock, brackets Worthington, is ready to get out of the game when he learns that his partner, Jenna Karras, brackets Carson, secretly the love of his life has betrayed him and begins unravelling a powerful conspiracy that, wait for it, reaches around the globe. I swear to God, if you were to look for a synopsis generator on the internet, that may well be what you'd come up with as well.

1:12:57Ziggy:That's very Butterfly, yeah. The Parsifal Mosaic. There is another trailer that you do, more exciting, believe it or not, than the one you mentioned.

1:13:05Siân Brooke:Then nobody wants this. Right, okay.

1:13:07Ziggy:Nobody wants this. The really exciting Netflix trailer. Did you see this, James? The Parsifal Doves. No, I'm going to. The Parsifal Doves, exactly. Black Doves season two and Netflix. Yes. I haven't watched that.

1:13:19Siân Brooke:Oh my God.

1:13:20Ziggy:Okay. I must confess. I must confess. When I harassed Netflix for episodes of The Diplomat last week, I also harassed them for episodes of Black Doves. Unfortunately, they told me they weren't finished. I wasn't able to watch them. Yeah, I had to. I hinted. This is the difference between you and me. I said I posted on Instagram saying I loved the trailer and I said to the Netflix person I can't wait to see it hoping that that would unleash the screeners immediately but no but the trailer is great and let me just say this right Fred of the pod Joe Barton who obviously wrote and created Black Doves his Spurs may be bottom of the league they are bottom of the league oh they're too terribly yeah but as I said to him top of the league this show it looks so brilliant and the trailer looks so fantastic of season two Keira Knightley Andrew Buck and Sarah Lancaster Ben Whishaw they're all back and there's new characters and it looks fantastic I've watched the first two

1:14:13Siân Brooke:and they're brilliant yeah

1:14:15Ziggy:I haven't James's face like

1:14:18Siân Brooke:James was like oh my god she got no of course I bet Sean Brooks

1:14:22Ziggy:sent them to you didn't she yeah I bet she did so November remember remember the 5th of November that's when it starts and Netflix unveiled a whole load of stuff this week do you see that because they did up front They did, they kind of, so, but the most exciting, which for me was Charlie Brooker is doing Black Mirror, not to be confused with Black Mirror. Black Mirror is an absurd comedy disguised as a serious crime thriller. And it goes back to the kind of nonsensical, hilarious, slapsticky, piss-taking of this genre of A Touch of Cloth, which Regulus as well is one of my favourite shows ever.

1:14:57Ziggy:So he's done this, he's done this, yeah, massively absurd comedy at the same time as doing new Black Mirror stuff, which will be coming later. but I'm really excited about Black Mirror.

1:15:07Siân Brooke:Oh my God, that's so exciting. Black Doves, Black Mirror, what else?

1:15:13Ziggy:Exactly. Well, I'll tell you the one breaking news story that I forgot to do last week, which is the greatest news story of the year. Oh, big claim. Russell Tovey is going to be in the next and final season of Industry, my favourite show. Oh, you must be so excited about that.

1:15:28Siân Brooke:Oh my God.

1:15:30Ziggy:Are you going to go and see Russell every day when he's at work? they're filming it they've been filming it already I need to get there but yeah it's so exciting you need to get on set for that you really do and I bet you like Ben Platt oh of course I'm guessing so Ben so they were announced together officially just before we recorded last week so Ben Platt and Russell Tovey have been cast in the final season Platt will play Matt Grenshaw venture capitalist and early backer of a wellness tech company I'm already on board with that and Zosia Mamet from Girls is in it as well and she's connected with him.

1:16:04Ziggy:And then Russell plays Declan P. Davis, deputy to left-wing politician Nikesh Shah, played by Bally Gill. So there's all political stuff. There's wellness stuff. It's so unbelievably topical and on point, the show. But yeah, the fact that Russell's in it is super exciting.

1:16:18Siân Brooke:Now, as you know, I haven't watched Industry, but the other day I had to write a piece for another publication, which we work for. About Industry? Well, about Industry, because I was writing a thing about, this will surprise no one, about sex scenes in TV. and I was looking up and it was like episode three of the last season was the threesome episode with Kit Harington and I was like I think this show's for me actually I couldn't watch it

1:16:41Ziggy:oh yeah oh you love the show there's loads of bum action on the show yeah I'm going to start watching it renowned for it Kit Harington regularly got his kit off and I love no pun intended

1:16:50Siân Brooke:I love Kit Harington so okay

1:16:51Ziggy:Kit off Harington

1:16:52Siân Brooke:okay how many seasons are there again for Industries is it three yes three too many

1:16:57Ziggy:four and it's four finished this will be the fifth the new one the one they're filming now is the fifth yeah

1:17:02Siân Brooke:James and I both didn't it failed the bellend test didn't it James

1:17:05Ziggy:yeah very much so

1:17:06Siân Brooke:okay fine

1:17:07Ziggy:yeah but you you will rise above that

1:17:09Siân Brooke:I'll rise above it rise above the bellend anyway

1:17:12Ziggy:daredevil is ending or I should say daredevil born again is ending with season 3 if either of you were bothered were you no didn't think so

1:17:19Siân Brooke:I really no I was bothered about season 1 and then it kind of went hmm don't you think no

1:17:25Ziggy:it went a bit what

1:17:26Siân Brooke:it just went a bit like meh it's like it was no Wonder Man for me is what I'm saying I love Wonder Man

1:17:33Ziggy:did we mention last week that The Beast in Me has had its second season confirmed at Netflix no oh yeah and people are up in arms about that because it was entered into the limited series and it's no longer a limited series it's no longer a limited series Amon sent me a very funny posting Amon Warman of the Empire Podcast fame of someone saying they should remove the award from that's outrageous yeah that's a disqualification and the last thing I want to mention is a bit of Doctor Who news if anyone is interested have you seen this that the Satan Pit is being re-edited into an extended movie cut and is getting a theatrical release.

1:18:05Ziggy:Now, I obviously don't know, but I'm assuming that the Satan Pit is one of the Billy Piper, David Tennant two-parters, isn't it?

1:18:12Siân Brooke:Why are they doing that? That's interesting and exciting. I don't know why.

1:18:15Ziggy:Boyd probably knows. You're friends with, you know, the Doctor. Yeah, I mean, I don't actually... I think there is extra footage, and I think, you know, someone just came up with the idea of... because they are kind of iconic episodes. they're not Russell episodes funny enough they were written by Matt Jones um but yeah they're great I guess they just thought why not yeah it's like like a is it even an anniversary probably yeah the first of August in 2006 so it's the 20th anniversary there's there's there's unseen footage why the hell not why the hell not maybe it's just to keep all the kind of Whovians like

1:18:49Siân Brooke:you know happy because we have no idea what is happening with it so it's just like in the in the

1:18:54Ziggy:meantime well that's a good point I mean maybe yeah yeah I mean Russell was exec was showrunner at that point. But yeah, I mean, the fact that there is now a massive weight while all the people apply it.

1:19:03Siân Brooke:where it's going. Yeah, yeah.

1:19:06Ziggy:Features tentacular aliens called the Ood. The Ood are legendary, yeah. Love the Ood. Yeah, fantastic. Right, that is it for this week's news. We move on now to this week's reviews and we're going to begin with WAR, all caps, on Sky, so WAR on Sky Atlantic, which is George K's legal thriller and this charts the acrimonious split between Dominic West's billionaire tech bellend and Sienna Miller's long-suffering actress. Steph, tell us, please, what is war good for?

1:19:36Siân Brooke:Okay. So, I mean, firstly, I'm just going to say, this is right up my street. Sienna Miller and Dominic West play famous and rich married couple, okay? And you're introduced to them separately. First, introduced to Dominic West, and he's receiving an award, and he's wonderful but let's just say if there was a man who was born to play an absolute shit and a cheater right it was Dominic West because his face just says I'm a wrong one okay and I do not know how to be faithful and he absolutely embodies this role so this is not a spoiler because it happens in the first 10 minutes he's at an awards ceremony there's a sexy girl there in a slinky dress, you know, moves are made and he ends up and he's like, I never do this.

1:20:27Siân Brooke:Obviously he does it all the time. And he ends up sleeping with her. But again, first 10 minutes, I mean, this is not a spoiler. And then the woman walks out of the hotel room onto a balcony and she just phones someone who you find out is Carla again in the first 10 minutes and says, it's done. And then the whole thing goes wild. Carla has been living with Dominic West who has been basically cheating on her forever and she's had enough she's got to that point she's had enough she's a famous actress and obviously sienna miller and carl who are the same person are beautiful she's beautiful um and she's had enough so behind the scenes she wants to get divorced she meets with divorce lawyers and she wants to get divorced dominic west who has a shit ton of money gets the whiff that something's going on and he assembles his team and then behind the scenes of trying to get a divorce the brilliance about this is is the kind of subplot of this whole thing because as you quite rightly say boy d um this is actually a legal drama um is that there's a young lawyer who's unemployed at the moment but he's trying to get and he's going to all these fantastic scenes and the music is great he's going to all these scenes he's working as a bartender and he's trying to get employed i'm not going to give away what happens because that is a spoiler but he's trying to get employed by a law firm and you obviously know that at some point he's going to end up working on this case.

1:21:47Siân Brooke:The two different law firms that are representing either party are very different. One is like a husband and wife and they're a young sort of law firm and the other is an old established as the best law firm in town. Wow, I just, I cannot get enough of this show. I'm definitely going to binge the rest of it over the weekend. Sienna Miller is outstanding. Dominic West, as I said, he's born to play these kinds of roles and this is where I love him I love him you know I love the affair and I love every every time Dominic West is a massive shit I am here for it um because he just leans into it and he's so awful that but brilliant brilliantly awful um yeah I the legal machinations and all I just say it's so exciting it's got it's got everything you want from a drama and the the cliffhanger end scene of the first episode is like oh yeah let's fucking get this on it's great i loved every minute of it it is a bit like the

1:22:44Ziggy:split with like 10 times the budget yes it is it's kind of big i think the reason why war is in capitals whoever made that decision it's war it's big huge big lavish it is lavish scenes and the sets are fantastic the law firm the two different law firms that in their own in their own separate ways are beautiful. It's got a succession-y vibe to it, which I put to Sienna Miller and Dominic Westwood. I know she's in the fourth coming episode of the Slate Podcast next week.

1:23:14Siân Brooke:Sorry, can I just also mention Celia Imri's in it, and oh my God, her scene is sensational.

1:23:20Ziggy:Well, not only is Celia Imri in it, but Nick Muhammad's in it. The two reunited from the celebrity traitors. I was very excited about that. There is no breaking wind yet in the episodes I've seen. I've seen most of them. It is an absolute joy. It's the same for me. It's like this is catnip for me because I love legal dramas. I love, again, something like the courtroom drama in the last few episodes when they come to court. And there's this great premise that, as you kind of explained, which is that she initiated this. Yeah, sure, he's been a philandering twat, absolutely. But Sienna Miller's character, Carla, initiated the fact that she wanted proof, and she set it up.

1:23:58Ziggy:She manipulated it to happen. And from there, it says it's a big secret, really. And it's a question of, you know, how does that affect the whole case and this whole massive big divorce? And it's really entertaining. It's such an amazing cast. Phoebe Fox is brilliant as the head of the law firm. Pip Torrance plays Sinjin, who's his friend and the head of the legal team that's defending him, acting for him in the divorce case. Nina Sasania, Archie Renner, who plays the young guy you're talking about. It's fantastic. Johnny, oh my God. It's Johnny, isn't he? He's so good. Yeah, it's a really clever device because we kind of see the whole thing through his eyes because he wants to work for one or other of them, of these big firms.

1:24:41Ziggy:Miles Jupp is really funny and everything. There's a lot of comedians. They cast a lot of comedians in this show. And I think that's always a good sign because it shows that they want it to be funny as well as being epically dramatic and tense as it is. I really loved it. Yeah, really massively entertaining. It's going to be a big hit. It's going to be a really big hit. I think so, yeah. It's big. Definitely. And the great thing is, so the reason why it particularly is like, by the way, is like... The split. The split. Thank you. The split. It's because they've already done season two and that's a completely different case.

1:25:12Ziggy:Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. It's a complete... The cast of season two, listen to this, just before I get your opinion, James. The cast of season two, Marissa Tamar, Kelly MacDonald, David Hellwood. Richard Schiff. Richard Schiff. Richard Schiff. I know. Claire Skinner. What the fuck? Amari Douglas. Khadif Kirwan. Oh. Douglas Booth. Yeah. Rebecca Sprung. I am weirdly more excited about season two. Yeah. Well, it's going to be.

1:25:35Siân Brooke:Douglas Booth is having a real revival at the moment. He really is.

1:25:39Ziggy:He really is. He didn't die, Steph.

1:25:40Siân Brooke:No, I know. But you know, like the blame is so good. Like there's a Booth naissance.

1:25:46Ziggy:He's having a moment. Yeah, definitely. Yes.

1:25:48Siân Brooke:James, please tell us you loved this.

1:25:49Ziggy:No, of course I loved it. It's really, really good. I mean, there's nothing not to love about a huge, over-the-top, acrimonious divorce with all this shit going on and double dealings and schemes left, right and centre and everyone's spitting venom at each other. It's quite, I mean, do you know what? I was expecting it to be quite stressful. It's not as stressful as I thought it would be. It's just a lot of fun, which actually I think is quite, but as you say, Dominic West gives almost unparalleled bellend. It really is. It's quite impressive. But yeah. I mean, George Kay, George Kay has wrote it of Hijack and New Pat fame and he is brilliant and making these things so fun to watch.

1:26:28Ziggy:I think that's his genius, is that it's so entertaining that, yeah, it's not tough in any way whatsoever. But, yeah, it's not one-dimensional and stupid, but it's just massively, massively enjoyable to watch. It's very good. War, then. Sky Atlantic. Friday. Friday, the 2nd of October. Friday. 2026. The 2nd of October. Okay, next up this week, we've got Break Claws on Channel 4, and this sees Samuel Bottomley and Lara Ricote as a pair of university sweethearts who moved down to London from Leeds to start a new life together, only for their relationship to implode and subsequently both be stuck under the same roof for the duration of their six-month rental agreement.

1:27:09Ziggy:Isn't that right, Boydie? Yeah, this is an interesting one because I think it started out as like a short and then they've turned into a series and it's built around this central idea that these two, this lovely couple, kind of hipster, waterline hipsters, It's come from the same kind of pipeline as things like Statlet's Flats and We Are Lady Parts. Exactly. And in fact, it's got Hamid, Anamashon, and Jack Shep are both from SNL UK. Jack Shep is the guy who does the Diana impression, who we interviewed for this, we also interviewed for this very podcast, if you want to hear that from a few weeks ago.

1:27:42Ziggy:So it's kind of them and their group of mates, and they are funny when they're hanging out together. I watched the second episode. I don't know about you. Steph's always very good at watching more than one episode. James, let's say. But my guess is, I have to be honest, I really wanted to like this. I think Channel 4 is doing a really good job doing new comedy, fresh young cast. Young cast, yeah. Young people, there you go. And I fully approve and support that. I think it's really good. I was a bit disappointed with the first episode purely because it built up to the premise that this loving couple's big move to London together from university is scuppered by the fact that he had an affair.

1:28:24Ziggy:He had like a one-night stand.

1:28:26Siân Brooke:Yeah.

1:28:26Ziggy:Sorry, one-night stand. Yeah, not an affair. You're right, one-night stand. Because that is the premise. Obviously, the whole thing is built around that. And then it takes some time to get to that point. And we have to introduce the character, sure. There were two – this is what I didn't like about the first episode. There were two montages. It's not just one montage, but two montages of people having fun, time, and jaunty music over the top. I was like, let's just limit it to one montage per episode, can we? Let's limit the fun. Yeah, not the fun, but just that format, that storytelling format, particularly because you get that in rom-coms all the time, right?

1:29:01Ziggy:So this is a bit of an anti-rom-com, of course, because it's about how they managed to negotiate living with each other, the fact that they now hate each other. She particularly hates him. And I thought the second episode was good, and I much preferred it to the first episode. But this has happened before with me, where I get slightly annoyed by the big build-up. She's quite a lot, Lara Ricote, to take in. She's a big, that's a big performance from her. She plays a little. she plays Lil the woman who's been betrayed by Sammy Bottomley's character is quite a kind of you know quite naturalistic kind of normal everyday kind of guy every man kind of figure despite the fact that he did this bad thing where she's quite big yeah well she's American isn't she

1:29:37Siân Brooke:so she's like the big American girlfriend and Ben is like you know it's Leeds isn't it it leads and they're moving to London and he's kind of just like they've been living with his parents and it's sort of he's just like he's just a nice boy he wants a bit of a quiet life and he's just lovely and then obviously but you're right

1:29:54Ziggy:the fact that she's American is key that is key and in fact it's a little bit like the Lena Dunham show too much in a way that's what I was going to say

1:30:00Siân Brooke:yeah

1:30:01Ziggy:yeah it's definitely got echoes of that but I think Lena this is the genius of Lena Dunham if I'm going to I'm fairly compared to that and I am is that in her first episode she is a brilliant first episode of that show and like you're captivated by the two characters and the whole situation and by the end of it you're like desperate to carry on watching it I wasn't desperate to carry on watching it after this, but I did carry on watching it and I'm glad I did because I think it does settle down into being really funny and they have come up with enough funny stuff going on with them and their mates for it to be worthwhile.

1:30:30Ziggy:So I do think it's a good show. I just think the first episode is not quite there. What did you think, Steph?

1:30:35Siân Brooke:I think you're right. I think the visuals could almost be ripped from the script of too much because even down to the fact that they go to live in kind of this sort of, you know, like council estate flat, don't they, in London? And when you say it's got echoes, I mean they're massively because also then she goes to go to this kind of corporate job in architecture and I mean I was like this is just too much by another name it felt like and obviously you know she's American so yeah it really does have notes of that like everywhere. You're right about the first episode and I did keep watching and I watched three episodes.

1:31:10Siân Brooke:If you watch the first episode I think you're going to be like this is just taking too long. I'm going to defend the montage scenes because I think you need the montage scenes to see like how he didn't intend to everything just got a bit out of control because everyone was drinking so he didn't intend to cheat that was never his intention and I think that is the the reasoning behind those two these people are just having so much fun and all these groups of people together just have fun and it all gets a bit of a hand and they just drink you know they were just drinking so I will defend those two you know too much fun montage scenes but yeah I think Samuel Bottomley plays desperately trying not to get Lil to find out so well like you feel the anguish you know because there's you know and it's you know they draw it out that someone's trying to phone Lil and tell her he gets a message like she's going to find out blah blah blah and I actually really enjoyed that he plays that so well like and like throws her phone and all that kind of stuff you definitely definitely need to it's worth persevering with it doesn't immediately you don't immediately go, oh God, Jen, this is great.

1:32:14Siân Brooke:I'm going to watch you because there's not the jokes. It's not like in the first episode, they don't come up with the jokes, but it is, I mean, I enjoyed it. It's worth the watch, but it, like you said, yes, it feels very much like they're giving some young comedians a chance to shine. And I'm all for that. And again, I'm also all for showing kind of, you know, British comedy drama type thing. And I love all the scenery around it and this couple moving to London and facing very normal problems like you need to get a job we've run out of milk there's two shelves in the fridge now we've broken up this is mine this is yours I mean there was a I really did this scene where Ben's character has run out of milk and he has to sit and eat dry Weetabix and it's just things like that like those kind of very British observations of things like but she's got milk but he wouldn't dare to touch her milk.

1:33:07Siân Brooke:So it's that kind of stuff that, you know, I really enjoyed. So I think it's worth a watch. Try it. And, you know, it's definitely, it's not a, oh my God, I must see this. But I really thought it was, it's a worthwhile show and it's worth watching and it's very interesting.

1:33:23Ziggy:It's interesting you say that actually, because based on the first episode, I'd kind of written it off a little bit.

1:33:28Siân Brooke:Yes, and everyone will.

1:33:30Ziggy:Yeah, because it just, as you say, for all those reasons, it wasn't that funny and I didn't really care enough. But, you know, and it's actually very apparent from watching the first episode that it is all set up because the actual concept of the show, the dynamic of the show, literally doesn't kick in at any point in the first episode. It is all set up to begin with episode two. So it's almost like prologue. the only thing i will say is for me the one thing that might have kept me watching the one thing that showed me there's a glimmer of potential comedy gold here is hamed animashorn who plays the estate agent obviously of black ops and snl uk fame is fucking hilarious and absolutely steals the show in this first episode yeah just the reaction shots alone are amazing he's just sort of skulking around in the back of scenes it's wonderful uh so i thought he was fantastic uh And that gave me hope that there would be good things to come.

1:34:21Siân Brooke:Yeah, you know, and that hope is, you know, is there and should stay there because you should carry on watching it. It's good. It's interesting. And I think, you know, when SNL first came out and Boyd and I were both very like, this is a great platform for young comedians. These people are going to be the comedians. And, you know, we've already seen that. We've already seen a load of them break out and people are really loving them. And this is an example of them breaking out of SNL and getting a show. And it's worth it. And we should support them in their endeavours. just saying but yeah I mean just the size of him in that episode in that tiny flat yeah that kind of situational comedy is great and he plays it brilliantly but I do think for me Samuel Bottomley is standout for me in the show in terms of his you know his kind of desperation to like he's done this one thing wrong but essentially he's not a massive shit and yeah

1:35:09Ziggy:it's kind of shit

1:35:11Siân Brooke:yeah but he but this is the best the point of the montage that's what I'm saying like he's so he feels so bad that what he's done you know people Oh, well, as long as he feels bad, that's fine. No, no, no, no, I'm just saying.

1:35:21Ziggy:You're being very forgiving of him, I must say.

1:35:24Siân Brooke:Well, I just think, look, sometimes people make mistakes. You've got to forgive people. We can't all be perfect, can we?

1:35:28Ziggy:You say, oh, my God, he shagged one person. What does it matter?

1:35:32Siân Brooke:Okay, I'm not, like, you just don't cheat as a rule, you know, and just be a good person. But sometimes things happen and it's awful and that's terrible, but, you know, he's trying to make amends.

1:35:44Ziggy:I think you should unpack more of that with your therapist later on, but let's just say that break clause. It airs on Channel 4 when, boy, did you? Thursday, Thursday, the 1st of October, in the double bill. They know. They know.

1:35:55Siân Brooke:That's everything you need to know. If it starts with a double bill, that tells you everything you need to know.

1:35:59Ziggy:It's slightly unfair because they tend to start everything they do with a double bill. But with this, you don't need to watch the first two. Yes. You do. You do. Double bill, Thursday, 1st of October, 2026, 10 o 'clock. Fabulous. And finally this week, we have the fourth series of Blue Lights, which you've obviously already heard about from Sean and Ziggy, but which continues the trials of our Belfast Bobbies as the men responsible for Jerry's death finally go on trial. Now, I was going to say Boyd is horribly compromised from having interviewed Sian Brook but actually I would say Steph is the one who is horribly compromised because she's now best friends with Sian Brook.

1:36:34Ziggy:So, Boydy, I am going to turn to you. Also because you've seen the other series and Steph has not. Because obviously if Steph was a good friend to Sian she'd have actually watched all the episodes but she isn't because she hasn't. Do you know what?

1:36:43Siân Brooke:I can't believe, I hope she's not listening because I'm going to be really upset with you if she is and she finds out they actually haven't watched Blue Lights because I love her and I am going to go back and watch Blue Lights just because of her. We pulled them apart.

1:36:54Ziggy:Yeah, exactly. You're always ruining all my relationships. Have you in fact watched any of these shows in which we interview the stars and their pets?

1:37:05Siân Brooke:Famously, I did not like Imperfect Women but yet when Elizabeth Moss came in, I somehow loved it.

1:37:11Ziggy:Yeah, I couldn't help but notice that. Yeah, we all noticed it. Anyway, Blue Lights. Blue Lights is one of the bottom line. It's one of the best cop dramas out there and has been since it started. Created by Declan Norton and Adam Patterson, who both actually brought up and lived through what's going on in Northern Ireland. And it's not only did it start really well, but it gets better. I think it gets better and better as each series goes on. I think it feels like it goes bigger and more ambitious as it goes along. So this new season starts with this spectacular set piece sequence in which the police, the characters we know and love, led by Sean Brooks, Grace.

1:37:50Ziggy:There's Annie Conlon as well, and Tom, played by Nathan Braniff. Catherine Devlin plays Annie. And Martin McCann is Grace's partner, both professionally and now in life. They bonded over making their own kind of bake-off together in the car. They tried to outdo each other by baking. You'd love it, exactly, Steph. Oh, my God, that's great. By baking cakes and stuff, yeah. That was really nice. And there's a little reference to that as it starts again. So there's this big set piece in which they have to deal with a marauding gang of protesters who are protesting an immigrant centre, a migrant centre in Northern Ireland.

1:38:25Ziggy:And at the same time, there's a marauding gang of loyalists gathering. There's another, I'm just using the phrase marauding gang. A lot of marauding gangs. Yeah, a lot of marauding gangs. There's a gang of people from Dublin who one presumes are going to be there to attack the loyalists. And in the middle of it all, there's our police, our kind of, you know, our heroes and the police trying to deal with this thing. While the people back HQ are telling them what to do, kind of with slightly, without the kind of, what's the word, resources they need. They're telling them to do stuff where they know it's going to be, it's life-fletting because they haven't got resources enough to make sure that their own people, the police involved in the middle of all this are safe.

1:39:03Ziggy:So it's a kind of spectator. There's lots of brick throwing and people like nearly dying and violence and thuggery. And into all of that, it makes it seem incredibly topical because they meet this young woman who is a refugee. And there's a whole thing about asylum seekers and migration and immigration, that controversy. And kudos to the BBC, right? Because I can imagine like the head of drama, whoever commissions this show and oversees this show. and Declan Lorne, the creators of it, kind of going, you know what we're going to do for this new series? We're going to go plunge right into the immigration thing.

1:39:38Ziggy:And I remember the BBC podcasting, no, do you have to? Do you really have to right now? I'm like, yep, that's what we're going to do. And they back them every step of the way because they kind of do it. There's a whole thing in the first episode or the first few episodes, I can't remember, I've watched a few, whereby Sean Brooke's character is kind of investigated by like an online girl working on one side of the divide. And she kind of accuses Sharnbrook and the police in general of being one-sided and being biased. And she kind of puts it all on social media. She kind of Instagrams her against her will.

1:40:13Ziggy:And so even that, just when you think they're tearing everything from the headlines in the main storyline, they also managed to make it incredibly authentic in terms of people using social media to kind of do controversial stuff. So it's so on point. It's so relevant. It's so clever. And at the same time, it's really enjoyable and entertaining because it has humour in it as well. There's humour in the interrelations between the different police that we've got to know over the last three or four seasons. And so it just works on that level as well. I compare it to Line of Duty because I think it's got that propulsive quality that Line of Duty has.

1:40:47Ziggy:They come up with so many clever storylines that are absolutely instantly gripping. And they're bringing back Richard Dormer from the very first season, who is this controversial figure who has the trial. and that happens in episode four. Yeah, we should say, bring back Richard Dormer. He is dead. So they don't literally dig him up. There's some flashback stuff. So Richard Dormer is back in the show. Yes. He's back in the show. There's new scenes with him. Yeah, some flashback scenes. There's no flashback scenes, sorry. It's just, and there's, my favourite character, I have to say, is Michael Smiley's Collie, who is like this intelligence officer.

1:41:21Ziggy:He's C3, but they have their own line of duty style jargon, C2, C3, et cetera. and he is like above all the he's doing this long term investigation into dodgy gangsters who go to this private members club and everything and he's been monitoring, he's got his own kind of unit monitoring what's going on with these people and he's totally on the edge because it's been going on for years and he's desperate to get evidence, enough evidence to find these people and he keeps being stopped in his task and he's so funny and entertaining and superior to all the others and he tells everyone to fuck off all the time he's absolutely brilliant in it but I love the

1:41:54Siân Brooke:show and it certainly keeps up its quality yeah well i feel like a massive dick because i have never watched blue lights yeah you are i i mean i mean there's only so many things you can watch and i don't know why again like because i'm an idiot um i hadn't watched this because i know like the girls in in the office love it and they've always said and they will particularly cross the fact that i'd met sean brooks and then they're like you haven't even watched blue lights you don't serve it and i was like no i take that on board i totally take that on board i'm an asshole right and um oh my god i was like and well the more annoying thing is it's so up my street because it's absolutely brilliant you know sean brooks as grace is just she is in in the show as she is in life guys she's just a delight isn't she and you're rooting for her and obviously i don't know the backstory but something happens in this episode which i don't want to give away sean brooks is as wonderful in this as she is in life and obviously really rooting for her character everything about it it's absolutely brilliant it also so the the the immigration storyline um the woman who um the actress leem lubani and i'm hoping i'm pronouncing that correctly again that is a yeah it's a big bold move she's a great palestinian actress and she plays i don't know if you remember one of the greatest shows the old man she is balor in the old man and she's so i love her as an actress she's incredible the old man oh my god sensational two seasons gone too soon oh my god if you haven't watched it but i think you can watch those two seasons and kind of feel okay about what happens at the end and feel like it's you know so if you haven't watched the old man please do because it's absolutely fucking stunning right that aside yeah everything about this is brilliant um i love all of the chat i really what i felt annoyed with myself because i really wanted to know the backstory because several things happen the backstory of some of these characters and their their relationships and things like that because there was a scene in it which i you definitely wouldn't have really understood unless you'd watched the last two seasons of blue lights i thought i could kind of get the gist of it but and then you like you said you've got this whole line of duty layer of the upper echelons of police management and what's happening there and who's out for themselves and all that kind of stuff also loved but yeah the guy who's lost all his cameras i don't think this is a spoiler the Lost Boys Cameras who's doing the big kind of you know surveillance on these people bring also brings a comedy element to it so yeah it's really funny he's as you know so there's a lot I love like a completely frustrated man and he's just he plays that really well but yeah I'm yeah I'm annoyed with myself and I'm wrong and I'm very silly because I haven't watched this yeah I'm disappointed with myself I've let everyone down but mostly I have let myself down guys so love it and my god the first episode ends on a cliffhanger which i was like what the fuck is gonna happen now do they all end on that yeah they're very clever they do have could i just

1:44:51Ziggy:set credit before james gets in um that to mention that the director of this of these episodes the first three episodes and she also directed ones in the previous series is angela griffin you know the actress angela angela griffin corrie etc she she presented shows on like bbc and see her. Great woman. But absolutely, this is, the first episode in particular, is spectacularly well directed. It's like a little mini movie. Yeah, I really... And what a brilliant thing. Sorry. So, I don't know, it's just something fantastic about seeing someone do a complete pivot from one thing to another. She's become a top level TV director and she was, you know, an on-screen face for years.

1:45:26Ziggy:As she should. She's incredibly talented.

1:45:28Siân Brooke:But yeah, to that, I thought, and you've mentioned it, the way they used the social media was really clever. That was really lovely. Yeah, really interesting. like a really well done scary we saw that in the blame actually do you remember we talked about that a bit the way that they used social media yeah absolutely yeah really really outstanding well done you Angela and it very well deserved up the women yay this is returning to a feminist podcast

1:45:54Ziggy:up the women yay

1:45:56Siân Brooke:exactly

1:45:56Ziggy:and we're turning to James Jesus Christ I don't know quite how I can pick up from that also nobody needs to hear me banging on about blue lights again which I have done ad nauseam on this podcast um i will just say that one of the things i think that works so well about this show is as i have said numerous times it's partly the setting which is very distinct because it is northern ireland um but also it's the fact that it's the humanity of the policing like it's very holistic the approach that they take to law enforcement here so it's not the institution we are law enforcement and we are tackling crime and criminals it's very much people dealing with people and you know i think richard dormer's character jerry cliff was like the poster child for this this idea of kind of community policing where you're trying to understand and there's a line uh where it's like you know this is a tough place to police but it's a really tough place to live and i thought that's quite he recognizes the humanity in the people that they're arresting and i think that's uh that that's a really interesting part of this and then of course there's all the sectarian stuff and whatnot but it's an incredibly compelling show it's really really good the fourth episode i've seen the first four out of is it eight or six i think it's eight six is I've seen the first four out of six uh and that's a really interesting episode and that's all I will say about that uh but yeah it's a really really good season of a really good show and if

1:47:13Siân Brooke:like me you need to go back and watch all the seasons of this show is it all I can watch it

1:47:17Ziggy:is it all on iPlayer yeah yeah you can fly through them as I did I believe was it earlier this year or last year I can't remember oh so you didn't watch it no no I came to this relatively late Okay, alright, so I'm not such an idiot then. I binged the first three all in one go. No, you're not an idiot.

1:47:31Siân Brooke:Oh, I feel so much better about that. Okay, great.

1:47:33Ziggy:Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff. Fantastic. What else is out this week, Boydie? Oh, I actually haven't got my, so I can't thumb through because we're not in the office, but I do know. Alright, well, let's have a look. Winter is on ITV. Winter's on ITV on Wednesday, which is Richard Armitage cop vehicle, which is a different case of the week, which is partly what we did with it. Yes, it's a bit of a case of the week. East of Eden comes to Netflix on Thursday. We were reviewing that, I suspect, on Pilot Plus. Okay. Kill Jackie. Kill Jackie on Prime Video. That was another contender for Pilot Plus, to be fair.

1:48:08Ziggy:Yeah, that's embargo. That's with Catherine Zeta-Jones. That's Catherine Zeta-Jones as an assassin, I believe.

1:48:14Siân Brooke:I could use a dose of Catherine Zeta-Jones, actually. Okay, great.

1:48:17Ziggy:Scrubs Revival continues for its second season on Disney Plus, also on Thursday.

1:48:22Siân Brooke:This is such a shocker. Sorry, I know you're trying to get through this list. but that's such a shock trying and failing it should be pointed out it was not good why have they continued with this Scrubs reboot

1:48:30Ziggy:who knows oh I know it's annoying but then I come back

1:48:34Siân Brooke:ride or die nothing but Scrubs reboot let's get more of it what

1:48:39Ziggy:I agree and they did the same thing with the terrible Frasier reboot they gave that two seasons it's ridiculous and everyone knew it was Denny Rolter Frasier reboot four stars Empire anyway Coven Academy is on Disney Plus and I don't know I'm going to say this right now I don't know anything about this show but it is called Coven Academy which means it is instantly brilliant and I absolutely want to watch it yeah it feels like a teen show like do you remember Motherland Fort Salem which I was obsessed with I think it's it's going to be like that I don't know I feel like it's going to be like that

1:49:09Siân Brooke:with a crossover of like Umbrella Academy which was also great yeah

1:49:12Ziggy:it could be that and the Reluctant Vampire comes to BBC One on Sunday which is with Tom Davis from Lenny Rush and Lenny Rush and it is fabulous actually you know Maybe we'll review it next week. Who knows? Spoiler alert.

1:49:27Siân Brooke:Okay, you know the V word, obviously, with me is, you know. You do love a vampire.

1:49:32Ziggy:Oh, yeah, this is very different. This is, do not compare a reluctant vampire with the vampire of the stats. Let me just say, yeah, this is going out 6.30 on a Sunday evening. It's like family friendly in a way. So you couldn't get more different. No one could accuse the vampire of the stat of being family friendly. Okay, fine. Right.

1:49:48Siân Brooke:Okay, great.

1:49:49Ziggy:Okay, what is our pick of the week? War. War. Boyd, he says war. it's blue lights I love blue lights but that's fair but war is a new thing and we all know the blue lights is fabulous so I get what you're doing but it's still blue lights okay fantastic well that is it for our remote episode of the Pilot TV podcast we hope you have had fun Steph has taken the patriarchy down a couple of pegs which is a good thing you know so that's been fun

1:50:15Siân Brooke:and everyone's got to see like our houses

1:50:17Ziggy:again yes they have seen them before oh you're adjusting the framing we've finished the podcast Steph it's a bit late for that A vertical tour of your desk. Nice, I like it. That is it for this week's podcast. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you would like to send in a message to us for the Pilot Plus postbag, it is postbag at pilottvpod.com. You can follow us on social media at James C. Dyer, at Boyd Hilton, at Steph Seeland, at Pilot TV Pod. Now, what will we be covering next week and on Pilot Plus? I don't know. We need to have an admin session after this. We need to discuss it. But we will be doing East of Eden and or Kill Jackie on Pilot Plus.

1:50:53Ziggy:uh next week there is a lot going on uh carrie comes to prime we've got uh it says happy birthday i don't know who that's referring to but apparently it's pilot's birthday it really isn't uh but anyway uh what else we got the party is on itv anna pigeon is on you and drama

1:51:12Siân Brooke:it says happy birthday and then the next show you mentioned was a party that's true you know the next thing i'm going to mention is i think we should get cake i think we should get cake for next week we should get cake

1:51:21Ziggy:and as Boyd mentioned Pierre is on Channel 4 next week and Marshalls returns to Paramount Plus yes for season 2 yes come on Casey Dutton good times alright we're done we're finished we're out Steph you're going to go round to Sean Brooks house and Boyd and I are going to go back to work excellent Pile us out