A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms, Drops Of God, and After The Flood. With guests Idris Elba and Jim Field Smith

26:26Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because I saw it, I thought, Tessa Thompson, John Bernthal, I am in. And then I read the reviews and I was like, I am out. And I believe the book is a big bestseller, a bit of a phenomenon. So I was like, oh, well, I probably should have, you know. Although I think it started in the after New Year week when we did, we covered most of the show. And it wasn't that you were going, no, no, no, let's do series two of After the Flood. Yeah, steady. Steady. Steady. We'll get to that. Yes, no spoilers. So, yeah, I felt guilt. I did feel guilty that it wasn't on my list and I didn't put it on the fucking calendar.

26:55But now I feel oh okay if it's that bad then mine. Vindication. I'm going to check it out because it does look like the kind of thing that I would normally quite like. It looks stupid and bonkers in a possibly entertaining way. Yeah. But that's the explanation of why we have not covered it. What have you been watching James? I've only been watching one thing this week. Oh God. And I mentioned this I hadn't watched it last week. No. No steady. Although technically it is 2026 which means Kay imposed a one-year ban on me talking about the West Wing. A one-year ban. Okay. Which elapsed on New Year's Day.

27:29I have not mentioned it. Okay. But I can, crucially. So if I decide to do another re-watch, you have been warned. Okay. Now, that's not what I've been watching. As I said, I re-watched The Batman over Christmas because I wanted to watch The Penguin, the series, because everyone said it was great. I found The Batman a massive, tedious slog. So I then did not watch The Penguin. However, this week I have forced myself to sit down and watch it, and I am extremely glad I did. Now, we didn't finish this, whereas the Empire team put us to shame, because they did finish it, and they even did a Penguin Spoiler Special on the Empire Spoiler Specials feed.

28:00Yeah. But it's really, really good. Colin Farrell is fantastic, but Kristen Milioti is outstanding. The Arkham Asylum episode is magnificent. And this series... The words. Well, but it's like this series is a DC show, but it's not, because it's kind of like Batman's not in it. It's superhero adjacent in that it happens in that world, but there are no superheroes in the show. It's about crime families. It's like The Sopranos in Gotham City. Do you know what I mean? And it's fascinating. And she's such an interesting character as Sofia Falcone, this kind of like daughter of this crime family who essentially gets sent to Arkham Asylum for 10 years because her complete psycho father thinks that she knows something she shouldn't.

28:45and you know obviously that's quite triggering a kind of girl interrupted type way that this used to happen to women quite a lot for being quote unquote hysterical and she got committed for it 10 years in this asylum and it's and when you see her there and just the injustice of it all it's quite an emotional rollercoaster that episode it's really really good and the whole thing is great and he's you know the penguin is Oz Cobb is obviously Colin Farrell under heaps and heaps of prosthetics but that character is an arsehole like he's awful like you know he's a double crosser, he's dishonest, he's pushing drugs, he betrays everyone around him, but you can't help be slightly drawn to him because it's a very charismatic performance.

29:22I love Colin Farrell. I have felt no need at all to watch The Penguin. I'm not sure why, except for the fact that I like, I am very true to my love of Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy. And I don't really, I feel like that has filled my Batman - There are room for other Batmans. but there's no Batman in the show there's no Batman in the show this is a Batman free show so there's no Batman no superheroes no super villains no super anything that's partly why I didn't bother watching the rest of it I watched the first two episodes I think when we reviewed it and for me almost because Batman isn't in it which is just literally a Sopranos like series why am I watching this gangster saga that is you know I wasn't fully convinced had interesting enough characters but you're right her character is really interesting and I keep thinking I should go back and watch it and you're also right the Batman the film it's extraordinary because it's kind of like what's it like two and a half it feels like nearly three hours long nothing really happens in it for the past stretches of the time it's like nothing is going on it's a really weird film I remember quite enjoying it's back on films again I'm so sorry Kate oh god sorry sorry but watching it again I was like it kind of it almost wants to be seven like it has this really 100 % Jow, completely.

30:43Jow, I think. I mean, you thought the Nolan films are quite grounded and dull. Like, this is just on a whole other level. And it just gets to the point where it's just a bit much and it's a little bit dull. But the Batman 2 is coming and I am interested to see it. But maybe just, you know, lighten up a bit. A couple of dick jokes in there. It wouldn't kill you. Whoa. Okay. Just saying. Okay. Anyway, so that's what I've been watching this week. Okay. And that is the sum total of what I've been watching. Wow. What else have you been doing then? I mean, it's hard to say, actually. Yeah. I don't know.

31:10Have you taken up a hobby? Yeah, I mean, not really. What did you get for Christmas? What did I get for Christmas? Do you know what? I don't know what the answer to that question is. Oh my God, you're like all five and six-year-olds when you're like, what did you get for Christmas? They're like nothing. I don't know so many things. No, but surely when you get to our age, as it were, Christmas presents are less of a thing, right? We are not the same age. You two, we are not the same age. We are not. You two have gone into a whole different decade. I don't know that you have. I'm in a different decade to him.

31:40That's true. I mean, I'm the real elder statesman. Yeah, Boyz or Nosferatu in the cinema. True story. When it first came out. The recent one, yeah. So you can't remember what you got for Christmas? No, I do know that I got three massive Toblerones. I was about to say, did you get the Toblerones? Yeah, but like three of them. Because the thing is, I got two this year instead of one, but also I wasn't sure I was going to get one, so I bought my own. So I had, this is a very tedious Toblerone story, but I had an abundance of Toblerones. But you did previously admit that every year you buy yourself, a special Christmas Toblerone.

32:12I do. Didn't you? Yeah. But that's only because my mum used to get them for me and then she started to forget. And so I was like, well, I can't be without my Toblerone so I'm buying it myself. This is the worst podcast content ever conceived. I'm so sorry. But if you want to send us some free Toblerones, if you are the company that makes Toblerone, which I assume is the Swiss airport at this stage, I'm not entirely sure, feel free to send me as much Toblerone as you like. I like the fact that we're just finding out now on the 14th of January what James got for Christmas. Well, you know, I'm just wondering what else he was doing.

32:38Maybe he got something that was taking up his time. Like, did he get a hobby? Or did he get, like, a particularly difficult Lego set? You know, some of these... Are we still saying Happy New Year? I mean, that's the topic coming out of the curious. No, I don't think you should say Happy New Year after. Unless it's New Year's Day, I don't think you should say it. No. Like, you know, people are like, oh, no, but then the next time you see that person. No, I don't think so. No, no, you're right, yeah. Carry on. Let's move on now to the listener question. And this week's listener question comes from Neil.

33:03And Neil says, Hi, gang. With the news that Kay is stepping back from her role of the third person in the pilot pod trio, I'm putting in mind of Last of the Summer Wine and their tradition of replacing the third man in that show every few years. Blamire? Blamire? Blamire replaced by Foggy? This has blown my mind, by the way, because I knew that Foggy was replaced by Seymour. That I knew. But I didn't know that someone predated Foggy. Who the hell is Blamire? And am I pronouncing it correctly? Almost certainly not. Anyway, replaced by Foggy. Foggy replaced by Seymour. Seymour replaced by Truly.

33:36Didn't know that either. While the other two remain constant, of course, being Clegg and Compo. With that said, which of James and Boyd is Compo and which is Clegg? Okay, I'd just like to say again, she hasn't left, okay? She is still... We are doing a job share, okay? She's still here. I'm very sorry. Here in spirit. She's not in body. She is here in spirit. I think it bothers me to say this, but Boydy has big Clegg energy, which I guess leaves me with Compo, which is regrettable I have big Clegg energy do you know it? I think you're more of a Clegg than a compo First of all I can't even believe you watched Do you know what?

34:10I still remember turning on Last of the Summer Wine one week and being devastated to find that instead of it we got First of the Summer Wine which was like a prequel series and I was furious because it wasn't as good but I remember Foggy and I remember Seymour I do not remember Truly or Blamowire for God's sake The things that your memory retains Yeah it's quite weird isn't it? It's shocking, isn't it? It's weirdly selective. I think Last of the Summer Wines still holds the record for the longest running sitcom. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I'm not going to, because we don't have a PRS license, but I could even sing you the theme tune.

34:44Oh my God. You think it's the longest? I did not expect to wake up this morning and have you offering to sing the theme tune to Last of the Summer Wines. How many years did it run? Take a guess. We're going to guess. 27. 27 26 37 37 years fucking hell it aired for 37 years and they seemed old right at the start they really did and Compo and Clegg were in every single episode that is crazy that is wild see yeah just give me like this podcast Boydie we'd be like we started this podcast 37 years I don't know why we're from the north we're still 37 years ago I don't know what that accent was I don't know what that accent was but it was terrifying it veered all over the continent I think unfortunately but so this This put me in mind, because that wasn't really a question.

35:33So this put me in mind of, now that Steph has essentially come in, roles in TV shows that were recast mid-show. Like people who were kind of swapped out in a kind of way. Yes, because the example that most people use would be, I think it's Lacey Goranson, who was recast as Becky in Roseanne. Becky, Becky. And she was replaced by Sarah Chalk. And then, as I recall, they both came back in a kind of weird meta thing at some point later in the show. And I want to say that Lacey Goranson actually ended up being in the Connors. I seem to recall as well. Yeah, I think that's true. So that was the one, and I think they do make a reference to it.

36:08Like, you've changed your hair or something. There's a line or something. Of course, Rosanne. You know, Rosanne isn't in the Connors now. Yeah, but she's not been replaced by another Rosanne. No, no, no, I know. That's such a weird, bad joke. Yeah, it is weird. But isn't the obvious example, Henry Cavill and Liam Hemsworth? That's certainly the most recent, isn't it? Yeah, Geralt of Rivia in The Witcher. That's the most high-profile one I can think of. And as you being the world's foremost expert and fan of The Witcher. And host of The Witcher Premier. Backets only. Which one do you prefer, James?

36:37Look, I do prefer Cavill. Yes. Yes. I think Liam Hemsworth brings, you know, I've talked about this before. I think he brings a different quality to it. And I think Geralt is slightly different in the most recent season as well. But Cavill has such... I mean, it's weird because I talk about Cavill's physicality, that he's an absolute unit. Like, Hemsworth is actually taller than Cavill. But Cavill is monstrously big. and I think he brings a real menace to that character so he's my preferred Geralt. Oh my God. Janet Huber for Daphne Reed, Vivian Banks on The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. I remember when that first happened.

37:07That was a massive thing in my life. Aunt Viv had changed. Yes. What's happened to Aunt Viv? I remember that. Oh my God. She's done something with her hair. I remember going all the way back to, I guess, I mean it would have been reruns at the time because I wouldn't have been watching it live but in the 70s, do you remember Miss Ellie Ewing on Dallas got recast controversially so this was way way way back in the days Barbara Bel Geddes played Ellie Ewing and she was recast and Donna Reed stepped in but only temporarily and then they cast her back again I don't know the ins and outs of why she might have been in I don't know the ins and outs but she got replaced and then subbed back in so she returned we're going to have a bit of a Game of Thrones spin off we should say Michael Hussman replaced Ed Skrein as Dario Naharis that I hate to say it was an upgrade in I think I want to say season 2 of that was Ed Skriong and then Michael Hussman replaced after that and also in Game of Thrones Gregor Clegane The Mountain The Mountain was played by three different actors I mean that didn't matter though because he was only ever had his well not always but yes certainly early on so early on so it was Conan Stevens played him in season one and then Ian White who you will remember of course Steph played One Weg Wonder One the giant later on I've interviewed Ian White he played him for a little bit and then and I'm going to struggle with the pronunciation but I think it's Halford Julius Bjornsson who is the Mountain we know who's the big bearded I'm going to give you 10 out of 10 for that point I think you've done really well there but he's the one from obviously the famous The Mountain and the Viper episode so yeah Boydie I know what you're going to say I know what you're going to say Matt Cawthon was recast between seasons 1 and 2 of The Wheel of Time and you are absolutely right that did happen and they never fully said why I mean I was scandalised by that I'm sure you were I'm absolutely furious about the whole thing I'm definitely going to watch that Wheel of Time thing I'm going to watch one of them it's been cancelled now but it is great why?

38:52why do you want to watch that something about James. Look at this boy, this is an open mind. I'm like making an effort to like understand what is going on. What makes me the way I am. And if I can fix it. That's what I'm going to say. If you can fix it. I think it's too late for that. I just find it really interesting when there's stuff, there's other stuff like that I would never touch with a barge. I know, like as you know, I don't like certain kinds of things but there's a lot of shit that James watches that he's really enthusiastic about and I just can't understand it. So I need to try and get inside his mind.

39:27Excellent. Speaking of which, Interview with the Vampire is fabulous and coming back quite soon with the vampire Lestat. But Bailey Bass, who played Claudia in season one of Interview with the Vampire, in season two of that show, she was replaced by Delaney Hales. And again, it's one of these things where they said there were a number of issues that meant that Bailey Bass couldn't come back. I mean, part of that was presumably because she's in James Cameron's Avatar films. But she gave a very different performance. I thought Bailey Bass was fantastic. it but then I think season one Claudia is much more childlike where season two is very much feels more like as she is an adult in a child's body so actually weirdly the recasting kind of worked in that way and soon I'm going to completely agree with you I have no doubt I'm sure you will but that was uh that was a good one I thought watching uh the Batman uh John Turturro's role in the Batman he's been recast as Mark Strong in the Penguin oh he obviously didn't return for the TV show.

40:19Oh, I love Mark Strong. I was about to say, I'd take Mark Strong every day. Mark Strong is fabulous in all things. He really is, isn't he? Not that I'm throwing shade at Turroth. I don't feel like he gets enough credit, does he? He gets a lot of work. He's always working. Yeah, but that's what I mean. Never bored. He's like one of those people who constantly works but just doesn't seem to get like, he doesn't get kind of big peaks and troughs in his career. He's just constantly working. You know what I mean? Yeah. Would you say that's fair? I would say that's fair, yeah. But he's... No, I'm happy he's continually employed look you're looking at me like I'm saying something mean about Mark I love Mark Strong I'm just saying he doesn't I guess what I'm saying you're kind of implying there's something he needs to be more I think if I were to guess I wonder whether you're saying like he doesn't get as many leading roles as maybe you think he should do so Temple he was the lead in Temple which he kind of co-executive produced with his wife so that was a project almost that they so maybe that supports your point in order to get that leading man role in that big show they kind of co-created themselves he's more of a character I guess that's true yeah that's fair he's a good villain he's a great villain he's also one of the great bald actors of course he is yes that's true you know how bald actors are absolutely it's so hard for you guys horrendously yeah overlooked overlooked it's very very rare this is an absolutely serious point it's very very rare that a bald actor is cast in a lead role still it's really really if you think about it vanishingly rare do you know what is this genuine Actually, let's think about this.

41:46Kojak. Well, exactly. You have to go back to the 70s and a procedural TV show. But you make a very good point because when Patrick Stewart was cast as Picard in Next Generation, he very nearly didn't get it for that very reason. Because bear in mind, he was in his 40s and basically had the traditional Picard cut. He was properly bald. And that very nearly cost him the role. Honestly, it's true. I can only apologise because I've never really thought about this. It's even more bizarre when you think how being bald now, I think now, having lived through baldness like James for much of my adult life you know having lived through baldness but it's more kind of like you're so brave it's more shall we say accepted I don't know if that's the right word I'm looking for and yet Hollywood still is not casting bald guys I don't know Jason Statham's made kind of a career out of it oh hold on yeah Jason Statham yeah he stands out The Rock now now actually what are you talking about you guys are everywhere no it's still it's not everywhere it's these are You just named two massive stars.

42:45No, I'm not saying it's never happened. The Rock has became a star before he was bald. Yeah, he definitely had hair when he became bald. But he looks better without hair. I agree with you, yeah. As do we all, Steph. Yeah, yeah. You'd look better without hair. As I do every day, I think. Shall I just get rid so I can get that lead acting role? The Sinead O 'Connor. Yeah. Nothing compares to you, Steph. I still think bald actors are discriminatory. So I guarantee you, Larry David agrees with me. He knows. Okay, all right. Whoa. just before we wrap this up a sort of subset a sort of sub-genre of this I find particularly fascinating is when they recast a role but they write out the character and replace the character at the same time so I'm thinking okay there's so many words you said there hold on again so criminal minds remember criminal minds first season of criminal minds procedural serial killers you love it stuff what do you mean vaguely what do you mean vaguely Mandy Patinkin Mandy Patinkin was the lead he found it quite heavy and it was very violent and he kind of he had some creative differences with the showrunner he left they replaced him with Joe Mantegna as a completely different character so the show then had a different lead famously they did the same thing with NYPD Blue didn't they?

43:49because David Caruso was being a bit of a diva in season one and he was like you can't do the show without me and they were like watch us Stephen Bochco fucks about not at all and Jimmy Smits came in so that was no one's bigger than the show no one is bigger than the show Ashton Kutcher replaced Charlie Sheen in Two and a Half Men oh okay oh yes of course yeah and classic example the OC remember when when Marissa leaves the OC and gets replaced oh good god with that Taylor character awful awful yeah I mean Marissa really was that show yes and Terry always used to use this example which was in Charmed do you remember Charmed yeah Shannon Doherty got fired by Charmed fired from Charmed yeah and so she got replaced by Rose McGowan who was a secret sister that apparently nobody knew about before that point yeah Rose McGowan was excellent in that though she was also just to say finally on this point soaps do all the time don't they EastEnders must have had on its own oh my god all the Sams that they've had in EastEnders and you're expected just to thank god Letitia Dean just keeps coming back and back and back as herself so she's fine there's never been another Sharon Sharon's just been the same she just keeps coming back I'm not sure she's playing herself no but you know what I mean she's always Sharon that would be meta turned out she's playing Letitia Dean plays herself yeah fascinating we should go for it but yeah the Sams there's been a lot of Sams who else has there been Ben Mitchell right I think there's been also this leads us on to another bald man though who's in a starring role obviously Phil Mitchell he's in a starring role in EastEnders EastEnders has about 30 speaking roles he's just one of them I'm going to draw a line under the EastEnders chat at this point I knew that would get you to stop the chat sorry right that's it we're done now if you would like your question read out on the Pilot TV podcast do send it in via email to me now I'm so sorry pilotTV at empiremagazine.com because I am now in charge of the post bag strings.

45:40Again, I apologise. Right, so you have officially taken on the post bag. I have. Unless you want to do it, Steph. You're very welcome to. No, I don't want to do it. But is Kay going to do it when she does it? This is unclear. She has certainly demonstrated a, shall we say, resistance to doing that. I like the fact that we're dealing with this admin live on the show. This is important. We're a family and we need to air all grievances. Air all our dirty laundry. Yeah, we don't know is the answer. People will have to wait and find out. but in the meantime do send all your messages anything you can think of for both this show and for Pilot Plus send them in to pilotTV at empiremagazine.com What if I get extra time then I can jump in your bag and have a look?

46:16Yes, that's fine. Yes. Alright. Let's have some guests shall we? Please God. Right. Please God says Boyd. Hijack returned to our screens last week on Apple TV with Idris Elba's Sam Nelson once more discovering the perils of public transportation. This time however swapping an Airbus for a Berlin U-Bahn. Boydy. you took Big Driss and showrunner Jim Fieldsmith hostage and forced them to talk to you about the show didn't you? I did in a glamorous London hotel room and it was a joy yeah Idris had just come off he was late arriving to the junket unbelievable yeah but for the great reason and I was wearing this jumper the listeners viewers the jumper I'm wearing now is an Arsenal gun Arsenal gun's logo he finds it's a cannon cannon exactly and Idris saw it and he said oh yeah He goes, you know where I've been?

47:06I said, no, he'd been at the Arsenal training ground interviewing Arsenal players for Sky. And so what better excuse was there than to be a bit late for Sky? Is he a Guna? He's a Guna. He's a massive Guna. Of course he's a Guna. Of course he's a Guna. But Guna in the football sense, not the other sense. Oh, come on. Please don't mention the other sense. Okay. But also, I don't know whether... I think the first chunk of the interview was basically me and him talking about Arsenal for a bit. So I don't know whether that's included or whether the Apple people might have... Oh, I hope it is. But carefully edited out and started the chat after the Arsenal segments.

47:37But there is an Arsenal segment. May or may not be there. Listeners will find out. Well, we will find out now. This is Boydie, Jim Phil Smith and Big Dress possibly talking about Arsenal. Hey, Dress and Jim. Welcome to the Pilot TV podcast. How are you both doing? Good. You know, two days of talking about something that we took two years to make. Yeah, no, it's good. I don't get to see Dress very often. No, I see him like relentlessly for nine months. And then I don't see him for like six months. So it's good to hang out. That is quite weird, yeah. Yeah, it is odd. I think it's fair to say on our podcast, right, there's three of us who do it pretty much every week.

48:10And the sense of anticipation for this show, season two of this show, is bigger than almost anything else. When the episodes arrived in our Apple TV preview scene that we can watch, it was so exciting. Do you aware of the level of excitement people have for season two of this show? Listen, that's great to hear. It is great to hear. I'm not aware, but yeah, I'm a bit nervous about it. Are you? Yeah, because, you know, it really ignited this swirl of sort of like TV's back. And oh, my God, I couldn't wait for the episodes. I mean, I was constant. I was like, wow, this is a real emotional reaction to it.

48:52And then obviously considering the sort of construct of what the show is to do that again, which we talked about when we were deciding to go again. How do we do it? How do we do it? And so that it's better than the first, you know, it makes me nervous that we're going to deliver our baby. Why do you think it is, Boyd? Because you guys know, like, see and hear everything, basically. Well, it's that mix of, you know the phrase gourmet burger when it comes to TV? It's juicy and fun and all of that, but it's a gourmet of that. It's so brilliantly done, and it feels real because the way you made it and everything, it feels intensely real when it was in that aeroplane.

49:30and now it feels intentionally real in the Berlin underground as well it's kind of how do you and finding that tone I guess is interesting is it between making it fun relentless fun but also making it kind of tense and talk I think that was a really eye-opening moment for me on season one when we were on Gogglebox yes I think we were on Gogglebox it may even have been three weeks running yeah it gave good Gogglebox for some reason really and I hadn't anticipated that and I love Gogglebox it's a great great show and it was celebrity gobble books and it was like Nick Grimshaw and people like that and I just remember seeing and it's a privilege to get to see people reacting to something you've made you know when I started out I made a big feature film for DreamWorks one of the first things I did and I'd done nothing at that point I mean I made this movie and then I was introduced to the world of test screenings and focus groups which I had no knowledge of but I come from a live comedy background so I was used to having that visceral reaction from the audience and they said well this is a comedy you know it's a 25 million dollar dreamworks movie and here's what's going to happen Jim when you've got your cut we put it in front of a thousand people in like a cinema in thousand oaks and we film the audience and I'm like what like we film the audience with like night vision cameras so that you can tune the jokes afterwards I'm like that's insane um that's insane to me and then you know I made that feature film and went through the whole focus group process and then made a second feature film and then i came back and started really started working in tv where you just don't have in uk tv you don't they don't do that and quite and by the way quite rightly it's a nonsense um to make art that way is preposterous um but i get it um so to have that experience on goggle box of seeing people watch the show it's the first show i've made on tv that i've had that experience of because reviews are reviews and you know people coming up to you in the street and in the industry and saying, I love the show, it's always hard to guess how much of that is real.

51:26They're just sometimes lying. Yeah, they are. I would say often lying. And that's okay. Yeah. Because I've done it myself. Yeah. The way I get around it is by not watching anything. And so I can legitimately say, sorry, I haven't seen it. Anyway, just to round that off, seeing it on Gogglebox and seeing how people reacted to it, trying to not let it affect how I make the show, but also being keenly aware that like oh there's a real like affection for this show and then the way that people watch tv is it has shifted over the years but i think the thing we had with hijack was the week-to-week release and it was more like a linear tv show and i had not anticipated that aspect of it you know i've made shows for netflix i've made shows for the bbc i've made shows i hadn't anticipated that aspect of it the week-to-week thing i think really played in our favor and and it does make you think about it when you're writing and editing the show because you do think how do i want people to to hook on for next week having said that i've watched all six episodes that i've been given and i'm furious i haven't got the final two yet so i need to finish making them that's why oh okay fair enough okay there is that there is that just as exec producer as well on this show does that mean you get involved in all it means you get involved in the whole idea initially let's plunk it in the berlin underground let's did all of that you're intimately involved in all of that Yeah, to some degree.

52:44I mean, it was sort of more like, you know, discussing how we come back, what are the areas that we love that we can do well, that we can replicate without being the same. And yeah, I was sort of part of those really early discussions. And, you know, it was a real lovely examination of the genius of Jim and just, okay, these are the things that really work. These are the things that how this is how we got there. And to replicate that, we have to do this. And, you know, I was just really fascinated by, you know, the process of it all. But as an EP, you know, I as soon as that start work started to happen and, you know, writers room started to happen, I was really sort of backed off at that junction because at this junction now I'm an actor.

53:33I'm back in that space, in that mode. And I said to the guys, I don't really want to read the scripts, actually, because Sam in this particular season doesn't know. And it was better for me sometimes to not know what I don't know. So that helped, you know, sort of I trust Jim and I trusted this German. And sometimes I remember I showed up and one of the characters had died. I've gone more. He got an action. Wow. But that's the best outcome, right? I was going to say, but you do have to learn your lines, but actually you don't say much. There's not much dialogue initially. It's a lot of... Yeah, episode one particularly.

54:14He barely speaks actually in episode one, which was a deliberate choice, you know. But to speak to that, Idris' power in that EP role for me is in that trust and it's him saying like, I need Idris' buy-in. I need Idris to be bought in creatively so that I can go off and make the show. And for Idris to say, okay, you know, here are some sort of key tenets of what I'm thinking. And for me to go and think about that and then sort of pitch it back to Idris and say, here's what we're thinking. And to have Idris's buy-in and then to have that trust of like, go off and make the best version of that you think you can and I'll be there and I'll have your back and we have each other's back.

54:58Basically, that's kind of how it works, right? I get the sense that you in particular like to set almost impossible tasks. like you're telling the story in real time, you're bringing back this great character, you've got loads of pretty many extras to deal with and you're in a confined space in the Berlin Underground. I mean, it doesn't get much harder than that. I mean, how do you even, where do you even start with, you know? I mean, it is a conscious decision to push myself like that. I think, I don't think you do your best work unless you're a little bit out of your depth, you know? And I think you need to be sort of learning to swim again a little bit.

55:33Um, and I, I just think there's, there's part of it that's selfish for me as a filmmaker. I want to grow. I want to try different things. I want to pull my team with me and say, come on guys, let's, let's push ourselves a little bit here. We'll get better results. And, and I'm lucky enough to work with people who have a similar mentality. Um, and to have, you know, someone like Idris who, who, who comes along and says, I trust you and let's, I'll swim out with you. You know, um, I'll stop the swimming metaphor now, but it's also. so there's a selfish aspect to it but also it's about i'm trying to create the best possible circumstances for drama to happen and often in the writer's room uh a phrase i hear a lot from people and it's understandable is you know wouldn't it be easier if or wouldn't it be better if you know like oh but if we gave if we gave um sam uh a gun he would be able to enforce blah blah blah and I was like yeah but it's more interesting to not give him a gun and have him have to figure out how to threaten people or how to coerce people when he doesn't have that easy thing to reach for and it's it's it's something we we come up against time and time and again with this show is make it harder you know I I've um been taking a bit of a transition into directing and you know co-writing and what I've learned um is that and I was watching Jim is that not always the first idea is the best idea don't take it away but then really strip it apart why is it good what do you like about it and the patience it takes to get through that process is something that makes great makes great that's what makes great because you might get back to the first idea but you've just examined all the weak points of it and i and that's really something that i've been really absorbing as a writer director if you like and it was great and i can't wait please can you finish those final episodes I'm literally doing it as we speak that's fine in a way this is holding it up in that case let's finish now thank you so much cheers bye okay that was Big Driss and Jim Phil Smith and Boyd time now for this week's news and do I mean look we have thrown quite a bit of shade at the Golden Globes in our time Boydy but shall we discuss the Golden Globes yes because there is the thing about the Golden Globes which is that obviously they're a Farago because they're voted for by about 80 people and who are Hollywood foreign press like a niche group of people and they're mavericks and they're mavericks and they get to determine you know these huge pre-Oscars awards that people are excited about and do pay a lot of attention to and yet really for no good reason because as I say it's a tiny whereas you know the Academy for example who vote for the Oscars have thousands and thousands of members 5, 6, 7 thousand members similar with the BAFTA so it's a weird thing but they do often make really good decisions like the fact I'm going to single out to start with Ray Sehorne friend of the pod yes won best actress in a TV drama series for Pluribus very well deserved that's a really very well deserved what more could you want for her to be recognised when she was snubbed so often yes repeatedly for medical assault so who are these 80 people?

58:49Hollywood Foreign Press yeah they're literally people like reporters on TV and film who work for foreign publications. I mean, yeah. So basically from any country apart from America, but most of them are based in America. Oh, no, no, no. But they don't really open it out. If you think, look, we are. When I remember when I went on a set of Stranger Things and I was with a big gang of these Hollywood foreign press people, and I remember talking to one of them about how you... You're a member of the Hollywood foreign press. We all are, effectively. Have you ever been approached by them to join...

59:21I know people who have. I have a few, do you? well it's quite rare and they're quite a closed shop and they don't you know they could open it up to thousands of people if they wanted to but they just don't and there was a big controversy going back a few years about the composition of the voting body being very white incredibly undiverse so they've had to address all these issues and they still make really stupid decisions in terms of the show and what's a musical and what's a comedy all of that stuff they snubbed sinners this year to talk about in the film because they have film and TV in one ceremony like the BAFTAs used to do unbelievably and a lot of people are annoyed that Sinner's got completely snubbed apart from score and they brought in a category this is classic Golden Globes they brought in a category recognising a big successful commercial mainstream film because the arty ones normally win all the other characters it's just bollocks but in the middle of all that Adolescents quite rightly won a slew a whole slew of awards including heartwarmingly Owen Cooper the youngest ever winner in his category male actor in a supporting role so he's done the double because wasn't he the youngest ever winner of the critics choice as well gosh and what was lovely is I mean there's loads of clips on YouTube of Nikki Glaser I think she did a really good job yeah I like her yeah she's funny but there's great shots at Owen Cooper's Instagram of he literally him and Leo he just went around the room he just went around the room going it's so heartwarming you can just think of him going I don't know if you know I just won this would you mind just having a selfie with me it's so cute it's so cute yeah it's brilliant Erin Dougherty and Stephen Graham also won and it won best limited series yeah I mean a big huge big that show is just going to go down in history you know so that's why we had it as number one because now are quite lucky even though James wanted it to be The Last of Us or something no no adolescence is magnificent but it isn't Andor because nothing is Andor Andor was the show of 2025 yes it definitely wasn't because actually one of the big surprises I think the thing that I was surprised about was that Michelle Williams won for Dying for Sex Sex, which is one of Kay's champion in that show.

1:01:23I famously, if you're a listener to this podcast, didn't particularly get on with it. Boyd, he didn't get on with her best friend. But they won. Ricky Gervais won Best Stand-Up Comedy Special. As he should. As he should, yeah. And you know, they had a podcast category. I thought this was a classic Golden Globes. And we won, which was extraordinary. We're unbelievably not snubbed. But it was Amy Poehler's show, Good Hang, which is a really good podcast. That's a great podcast. No, I'm sorry. Don't. Celebrity podcast. can fuck off. No, no, no. Amy Poehler is absolutely different. It's still a celebrity podcast.

1:01:56No, but James is kind of right because in this category, all of the nominations are celebrity podcasts. What's the point? Thousands of true crime dramatizations. Oh, come on. Joe Rogan gets enough. He gets enough votes from people. They don't need to have non-celebrity podcasts. But this is the other thing why it's community podcast because they created this new category podcast. Why? Film and TV is enough and they cut from the broadcast the Best Original Score category. Okay. That's deranged. It's classic deranged globes behavior. These people are fucking nuts. That now does seem deranged. But I would say that podcast is fantastic and Amy Poehler is...

1:02:31I'm sure it is. It is. But equally, she doesn't need the help. No, none of the nominees need the help with that category. But The Pit, which of course I have seen in its entirety, Boydie. That one, Vesta... Has he seen it yet? Yes, he's lording over me because we both watched it on flights to and from the US. Yes, I know. But he managed to watch the whole thing. Yes, because I have longer flights. I've got three episodes to go, but I am flying to LA soon, at the beginning of February, and I will be watching it then, I guarantee. It won Best Drama, and I think Noah Wiley won acting on that as well.

1:03:00He did. And lots of studio awards as well. Yes. Studio Witch won Best Comedy, and Seth Rogen won for the studio as well. I mean, these are all really good decisions. That's the thing about the Golden Globes. Yeah, which is unusual for them. Yeah, well. Right. Okay. Did you know that they're going to do a TV drama version of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? so as if we haven't had remember right you've got the novel the original novel of course massive global Steve Larsen's novels you had the actual Swedish is it Swedish Swedish version the original film then you had the American remake with Daniel Craig by David Fincher who was on a basically I'm only making films about serial killers now and made the first one and then we got the girl with the spider's web exactly which was like with Stephen Merchant remember as a psychopath and now they thought well we need to tell this story again I'd welcome it now the only good I say the only good thing I'm always open minded about these things it does seem to be the case that they're going back to the original novel right which is already good move yeah we've seen any casting no casting yet early doors but it is being made by Left Bank Pictures who made you know The Crown and they did The Day of the Jackal the Big Day of the Jackal which was great one of the best things and is this do we know where it's airing no I mean they're literally just announcing it as a project so it's going to be a while away yet they haven't announced any casting But I think if anyone can do something different with it and make it into a huge, big event, it is Left Bank.

1:04:23So I'm open-minded, but equally I'm like, they really go back to that IP, which has already been done quite a few times. No, I think it'll be good. Yeah, I'm sure it will be good. Millennium trilogy. Yeah, maybe they'll turn into a new story. The irony, of course, being that I wonder when they'll set it, because it's all about a magazine journalist. And obviously, as we know, that's not really a thing anymore. But, you know. How very dare you. We are all magazine journalists here. Oh, I guarantee you'll be an online magazine. Yeah, almost certainly. No, no, no, no. We'll be a content creator. It'll be a content creator.

1:04:55Oh, don't even. It will. You'll be a TikToker. Yeah. No, just content creator now encompasses everything. we're all now content creators I am aware yeah I'm not that old I'm so old can you hear me over there content creator is that what they call it now oh interesting wow yeah so that's happening okay I'm here for this I like those books I've read them all I've seen all the films I'm on board and you're happy to go back and see them told again I am happy to see them told again it's a great story yeah it's really good no it is a brilliant story you're right you're absolutely right now Steph you said something before this podcast started didn't you right I said that Life on Mars was returning.

1:05:32You did? I read it before I came in, right? And... Is it not true? Okay, no, no, no, no. It says, so... Did you make it up? Yeah. Life on Mars is poised to return for a third series. As creators drop, huge hint, the anti-woke hit will be revived after the financial setbacks. The anti-woke hit. Oh, my God. I just, I can't even with that bit of marketing. Okay, and yeah, Radio Times, Life on Mars creator teases hopes for another sequel series. Teases hopes? Okay. The BBC are denying it. that's an extraordinary bit of news can I just tell you this is like this is absolutely fine because you know months and months ago James announced on this very podcast right that line of duty was coming back and it was like months before it was ever actually announced officially what can I tell you you know you get the inside scoop from me Boydie yeah apparently so you know it might be announced in a couple of months time but also crucially you said third series were there so were there two series of Life on Mars and one series of Ashes to Ashes yeah I think so.

1:06:30And so this is actually Life on Mars. It's not like dust to dust. This is Life on Mars. He said, right, okay, Life on Mars co-creator Ashley Farrow has teased something is stirring. That's what they said. Is he talking about personal bodily functions? You know what? I think they should actually just push the boat out. So they've done 70s on it. I think they should call it like, take your brain to another dimension and it's actually just the 90s. Well, it needs to be another Bowie song, doesn't it? Because they're both Bowie songs. Does it have to be? Can we not branch out? No, it has to be. I think the prodigy's fine.

1:07:00No, no, no. It could be a Bowie song. There's loads of great Bowie songs in the 90s. So I moved you there. It could be some of the 90s. Do you know what? Genuinely, I cannot believe I haven't rebooted it yet. It's astonishing, really, because it's about fucking time. I'll read the BBC statement in full. I'm swearing so much. There are no plans for Life on Mars to return to the BBC. That's clear. Oh, to the BBC. Yes, so listen. So now people online are saying, God, this story's developing as we speak. Now they're saying it's going to return, but not to the BBC. Oh, right. That's what they're saying now.

1:07:26That makes sense. That makes sense. it's just such an obvious thing to do to restart that to reimagine it in the 90s is what I'm saying if you can get out of space into the title so much the better it'll be like Spice Girls references it's more likely to be Spice Girls and Prodigy it has to be said yes it is okay well there you go so that may or may not be news and may or may not be true but let's just put it out there okay thanks Steph you haven't quite grasped the concept of the news section but it's early doors yet it's early doors wait is there any show that you randomly would just like to see come back but may or may not be in the pipeline.

1:07:59Listen, I read you the statement. I'm telling you news as it happens. Yeah, no, it's good. Can I give you my headline of the week? You know, it's usually Variety in their showbiz news stories. I really like this one this week, which is, a media clock is done with the fantasy genre after Game of Thrones. Harsh. Colon. No. You're unlikely to see me get on a dragon ever again. I mean... But again, that's one of those classic, we got access to a person, they said a thing, let's see if we can turn it into a news story. 100%. 100%. And also, what are the chances, if she's not going to do fantasy again, what are the chances of her doing a dragon-based show?

1:08:33It would be weird, wouldn't it? Could happen. She gets offered another... Oh, this is not a dragon to do it as well. When they're like, okay, we want to do something with dragons, let's just call Amelia Clarke because we know she's had experience with dragons before. She's the mother of dragons. I know she's the mother, of course. She's in the new Peacock espionage series, by the way, called Ponies. Yes, there are no dragons in it. right swapping dragons for ponies yeah did you know a pony is not a baby horse it's just a small horse a baby horse is a foal yes James because I'm 44 for fuck's sake was that not a good fact James it's just like sometimes we think it's like James meets world do you know what I mean if James was on would I lie to you it would be did you really not know that you thought that ponies were baby horses you thought ponies well no no What did you think foals were?

1:09:28I mean, a band. Right, okay. Just, okay, someone put him down. Put him down. Take me out back and shoot me. Sorry, also. Off to the glue factory. When did you learn this fact about ponies? Not recently. Like, it's just, I don't know. I just feel like you two people just seemed like people who wouldn't know that. So I thought I would share it with you. Wow, that is scathing. he thought that we we were the kind of people that wouldn't know that ponies were baby horses okay James that says a lot okay good did you see that Seth Rogen confirmed that season 2 the studio starts filming exciting this week and he was very funny because obviously so he won at the Golden Globes we said and obviously on the show that had a Golden Globes episode and he said that it's now getting mixing reality and fiction is getting very confusing he said we've literally written some things that happened leading up to the Golden Globes in two episodes we've been writing for the show.

1:10:26He said, so several things have happened both today and leading up to the event and they'll probably know what they're taking the piss out of when we see it in the eventual studio. So we're going to see them taking the piss out of Seth Rogen winning the award for the show that they're showing that he's taking the piss out of. It's too much. There you go. How very meta. Yeah. All right, that signals the end of news mainly because we're running out of time so let's move on to this week's reviews. Well, we've been here for like an hour Four and a half. Yeah, it's been a while. Okay. Okay, first up this week, we have A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms on Sky Atlantic, and this is the second Game of Thrones spinoff after House of the Dragon, but a very different proposition indeed.

1:11:04This is adapted, if you don't know, from the Dunk and Egg novellas by George R. R. Martin, and this season specifically adapts the first such novella, which is called The Hedge Knight, which was published back in 1998, and it sees rugby player Peter Claffy as the newly knighted Sir Duncan the Tall and Dexasol Ansel as his kind of diminutive squire called Egg. And the show is adapted under the auspices of showrunner Ira Parker, who I spoke to last year. And it is deliberately less epic. It's sort of more humorous. And altogether, I would say, far more scatological look at the world of Westeros.

1:11:37To tell us about it, please welcome to the list, Sir Boydie of House Hilton, Lord of Virgin Upper Class. This is a weird one, isn't it? I didn't know what to make of this, to be honest. Just to go straight in. Okay. I guess, because it is very much like, not like Game of Thrones in the sense that it's not epic. It's not, there are as yet no dragons. There will be no dragons. Amelia Clarke will be happy. She could be in it because she won't have to ride a fucking dragon. Sir Duncan, played by Peter Clafie, who is an actor as well. His background is a rugby player. He's a rugby player, yeah. Very tall, but he's been in loads of stuff.

1:12:12But he's very tall. He is. I mean, he plays Sir Duncan the tall. If he was like five foot three. Oh, he's gigantic. It wouldn't be great. He's gigantic. but he has acted a lot before just to make that clear. He, yeah, he's wandering around with three horses. Horses mind. Yes, horses, not foals. No, or ponies. Or ponies. Three horses. Now, first of all, before I forget to ask this, do you think, are those three horses real? At some points I thought maybe like one of them is real and the other's a CGI. No, they're all real. Why would you not have a real horse? No, I think you, because there's a bit in it.

1:12:43Because the poor actor has to fucking carry something. He's not carrying them. I mean, he's leading them with the right range. He's riding around with these three horses. That is a... I mean, not only one horse is enough, surely it's an actor to ride. Right. Especially when you're saying for a tall... I'm going to rein you in from that, so we can... Right, okay. Good use of rein. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll establish the three horses. Can I just ask Wes, where do you stand on Game of Thrones? Oh, I love Game of Thrones. Where do you stand on House of Dragons? I love House of Dragons. Okay, right.

1:13:10Now I'm going to allow you to continue. I needed to know that before you do this. So it's very much not like those shows, in the sense that it is, as James... alluded to, referred to. I'm trying to avoid the phrase alluded to. As James said just now, it is pretty much a comedy. I mean, it's almost, at some points, it's like fucking Carry On Game of Thrones. Yeah, yeah. Because the bawdy things are happening. People are getting drunk and they're, you know, shouting and screaming, dancing. The dance sequence is demented. That is demented. Right? Where in which Daniel Ings, who specializes, by the way, and I'd like to interview Daniel Ings and say, you play a series of Bellens.

1:13:47like he was a bellend in the Billy Piper thing do you remember? you know where he played her absolutely obnoxious husband who's a complete twat he's in the Guy Ritchie show and he's a complete twat in that so he's just and this is playing an utter gigantic bellend a bellend of bellends though I guess he could be worse because he could have like killed our hero in the first few seconds how many have you watched? I've only watched one right it's only half an hour the first one was 45 was it? the rest of them are half an hour the rest of them are half an hour They're quite short episodes. I did see that.

1:14:18I'm a busy man. I've been fucking touring Wales all weekend. Oh, that's right, yes. Oh, my. Team Gavin and Stacey. Yes. So you watched one? So I watched one. I enjoyed it. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed it for what it is. I thought it was, you know, it is smaller scale. I like the carry-on film, so calling it carry-on Game of Thrones is not an insult, by the way. I enjoyed the comedy of it, but it is like, but then I got to the end of the first episode and I thought, I'm enjoying it, but what's the point? And then I thought, well, the point is, well, I'll quickly finish. I think the point really is George R.

1:14:49R. Martin probably was quite keen on making a TV show out of these things, these spin-offs from Game of the Worlds stories. Game of the Worlds. So they went, and HBO went, oh yeah, Game of the Worlds. Sorry, and HBO went, oh yeah, we could do that. We don't mind. We'll make a series of it. And it's fun. And it's, you know, but like, there doesn't seem any great point to it apart from the fact that it is a fun, fairly entertaining, quite funny, bit silly adaptation of some, of George Tukitra George R. R. Martin happy? I don't know. And fans. And fans happy. And now I'm going to tell you why everything you've said is completely wrong.

1:15:22Okay? Right. So, this is a classic case of when we talk about how many episodes of a show you should watch, okay? Right. And this is a classic case of if you watch the first episode, you will have a completely different opinion about this series. And if you've watched, like me, and I suspect James, if you've watched all six episodes. Right. I am a massive Game of Thrones fan. I love Game of Thrones. Did I love House of Dragons? Not so much. I thought House of Dragons was actually a bit... It's called House of the Dragons. House of the Dragons. You know what I mean. House of Dragons. You're such a huge...

1:15:54No, I'm not. That's my point. We were watching Game of Worlds a minute ago. My point is I'm not a huge fan. So I didn't. I thought that was actually almost too severe. Anyway, I watched the first episode of this with great anticipation. And after a very serious issue with my verification. Which we heard about in excruciating detail on the WhatsApp group. But as a Game of Thrones fan, I really wanted to refill my Game of Thrones cup. So I watched the first episode and I was like, oh no. In the opening sequence, you see him kind of openly defecating in a field. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

1:16:32And I was like, what the actual fuck is this? And for me, it's a very gigantic man bumbling through the hillsides. And I was like, this is not what I want. and also it's almost like taking the piss because there's a bit in it where they play a little bit of the Game of Thrones theme tune and I was like, are they trying with my emotions here? It's a great gag. I quite like that. That's quite funny. But for me, when I was like, where is the Game of Thrones, right? So I was like, no, no, stay stick with this because maybe it's one of these shows. But I thought, actually, by the end of the first episode, what I did was I'd formed a relationship with the tall guy and I was like, oh no, I quite like him.

1:17:12There must be a reason they're doing this. We should go and track him down. Yeah, I thought you like him. I thought this is a slow burn, so I have a relationship with this character. So I start to care about this character. And by the end of the first episode, I did. Then I started the second episode, and I was like, God, they're still in these bloody hills. He's in this camp. What is happening? His whole aim is that we're not giving anything away. The man who looked after him, who was a knight, a penny tree, he is now wanting to become a knight himself, right? So that's his whole thing. and you and it's not till the last 10 minutes of the second episode and in the last 10 minutes of the second episode you're like right we've now gone into the game of thrones territory which i love and from that point on which is why it was up to one o 'clock last night the whole thing was absolutely exhilarating and it and it had all the magic and it had all the magic of game of thrones and it had it's still you know we're talking earlier about how marrying comedy you know and drama and I thought god this is too much comedy this I don't this is just not my bag at all this is not what I want from a prequel um then it introduces a load more characters and some of them are deceptive and that's what you want from Game of Thrones and you're not really sure who people are and then they get the fight sequences which are incredible I'm not I don't think I'm giving away any spoilers um but it was exhilarating and I ended up watching all six episodes and by the end of it I was like this is perfection for me this is a six episode perfection of something that I thoroughly enjoyed it.

1:18:40And then it made me almost, you know how you get to the end of something and you're like, actually, the first episode's okay because I could see what it was doing for me. If you don't stick with it, because as I understand, they're doing it week by week. They're releasing it week by week. You will be making a mistake. Yeah, so you'll, but please, I'm begging you, if you love Game of Thrones and you watch the first episode and you're like, this doesn't feel Game of Thrones-y to me, stick with it because you will be rewarded at the end of it. Does it get less comedic then? Yes, it does. I mean, it does.

1:19:10There is still comedy. It's comedy all the way through. It has the essence. I'm fascinated to hear what you think. But it has the essence of Game of Thrones. You do get, like I say, it is exhilarating. There are points in it and you're, oh my God, my God. You do have that huge suspense. You are like, who's on what side? What is setting up is incredible. I hear you, but I was surprised by the lack of dramatic tension and the fact that the first episode ends with almost no great desire. Yes, agree. Attempt even, unless you're a huge Game of Thrones-er and you're a George RR Martin fan, you've read the books and you want to see what they've done.

1:19:45It doesn't give you much. I agree. And I think that's a mistake on their part. Yeah, it's a mistake, I think. Because the main reason, to be honest, the main reason I haven't carried on watching more is I could have fitted it in is because I wanted to watch some of the other shows we were doing that were more compelling for me. But that's why I'm saying... But I really enjoyed it while it was on. And by the way, it's obsession with the shitting and the bodily functions and spitting there's so much spitting and gobbing and nasal yeah you see a full frontal nude in the first scene of the episode 2 oh yeah he strips off and gets bathed in the river and stuff and all of that but what I'm saying is the devotion to bodily functions is quite extraordinary there's a lot of mucus and saliva going on just to pre-warn viewers who might be distressed by that okay but it's like when the Targaryens are in rule and it's like you know the last dragon hasn't been seen for like however many, a hundred years or something like that, isn't it?

1:20:34And it's a hundred years before Game of Thrones, isn't it? It is, yeah. I think... It doesn't mean we have to watch people shitting. No, but it's kind of, you know, you're in that time. I think essentially for me, whereas with the first episode, I probably would have said, if I'd just watched one episode, I would have been disappointed. I think, not to say something so basic, but it is kind of the evolution of this main character. And it's amazing when you watch the whole thing. I really, please, can you watch the rest of it? because I think you will you've inspired me it's honestly did you call me Kay Steph they are interchangeable it's absolutely fine they will both I just want what I want dear listeners please don't give I just don't want them to give up on it if you love Game of Thrones because you will get that magic also the episodes are half an hour long there's really no excuse not to watch the rest James people have other things to do but what I'm saying is this should be one of those things to do don't give up on it first of all you lecturing us on how we should watch shows that are only half an hour long.

1:21:31What about all these comedies that we've watched over the years that you've barely imagined getting through? Yeah, the first episode, let alone commit ourselves to watching the rest. I will watch the rest of it. I will, absolutely. I mean, I was thinking of doing it anyway, but I don't feel... But I just wanted to say, as a critic of this show, much as I enjoyed it, it gives you very little reason if you're not a fully-fledged fan of the whole world and the whole milieu to carry on watching. What did James think? Yeah. I mean, weirdly, I do agree with Steph, but I... this isn't Game of Thrones and it's deliberately not trying to be Game of Thrones.

1:22:02It's a very different animal, it's a very different beast. Tonally, it's very different, partly from a comedic point of view, but partly because Game of Thrones is an epic kind of panned out Westeros sort of level view of kings and queens and thrones and conspiracies and white walkers and dragons and destiny and fate and all these sorts of things. This is not that. This is a very small character-driven tale about one man and his squire. This is Game of Thrones local. It is, but it's also it's working class. It's like, this is the working class story to Game of Thrones like kings and queens and princes.

1:22:30Like it's a very different, it is supposed to be in the muck and in the shit. And you know, it's in flea bottom. It's like, it's a deliberately quite grubby one foot in the gutter type story. And I think that's what Ira Parker was trying to do with this because that retains the feel of the novellas. I've read all of them, so I wasn't thrown off by the first episode of this because I knew where the story was going. It's a great story because it shows you aspects of Game of Thrones that will be familiar, like the heraldry, you see Baratheons, you see Targaryens, you see foster ways, people that you, you know, not so much people that you would recognize, but houses and livery that you would recognize.

1:23:02But it's not about that. And it is funny, but equally there is a big, I think it's safe to say there's a big battle, sort of fight type scene in it. It's incredibly unusually shot and well put together. And it's the antithesis of a Game of Thrones battle, which is dragons and hundreds of people dying. And this is quite literally in the visor of one character. Like it's a really zoomed in Game of Thrones tale. and actually it's a really refreshing change of pace for that world and I think it's a wonderful little Game of Thrones palette cleanser. It is the complete opposite of House of the Dragon.

1:23:38Yes, which I didn't like. Well, I love House of the Dragon. I didn't like House of the Dragon. How can you call yourself a throne star? I know, I know that sounds like... House of the Dragons. Weirdly, I was just upstairs talking to another colleague and she was really excited about watching this and she loves Game of Thrones as much as I do but she didn't like House of the Dragon and I said, I think you'll love this. I don't know whether it is because it is on that smaller scale and you've got that, I don't know, human interest? I don't know. It's a character-led show. Do you know what I mean?

1:24:08And so I really fucking like this guy. Like, I really liked his character. He's very likable. I was rooting for him. I cared about him. So I don't know whether, I don't know. I don't know why, but House of the Dragon was almost too broad. Well, also, it's that Game of Thrones is quite a serious show, but it's leavened with comedy, like Tyrion's a very funny character. There are laughs in it. House of Dragon is acutely humorous. Yes, that's probably what it is. Whereas this is really funny and just quite charming. I think we're thronesed out with this one. But did you like it, James? I loved it.

1:24:39Yeah, I loved it. I watched it. You know I loved it. I was watching it last year. Of course I was. But yes, I enjoyed it enormously. A Night of the Seven Kingdoms, then, which is available on Sky and now. When, Boydie? Monday, the 19th of January, 2026. 2026. Right, well, we've got bigger fish to fry, and where better to fry them than ITV? Because next up, we have After the Flood, which returns after its watery debut to see Sophie Rundle's PC, Joanna Marshall, still reeling from the corruption revelations of Sirius 1, only to be faced by even more ordeals, this time with a fire on the moors. And yes, don't worry, the exciting music is back.

1:25:18Steph please give us your full assessment of After the Flood or as it should probably be retitled Onto the Moors After the Fire After the Fire During the Fire During the Fire During the Fire Okay so I'll have to admit I didn't watch the first season of After the Flood but after a quick Google I knew everything that happened in After the Flood the first one Right what did I think of this? Okay so obviously you know from like they're off the back of all this corruption that you know her husband is corrupt, but he's kind of trying to make amends in this. I'm not giving away any spoilers. He knows he did bad things.

1:25:58He was taking, you know, money, and he was, you know, he's involved in various plots and things like that, but they've had a baby together, and he's kind of trying to, you know, become good again in some ways. So there's a fire on the moor, and then a body is discovered, and it turns out, again, there's no spoilers. The body is discovered. but it turns out this person was already dead. I don't think that is a spoiler because you find out very early on. And it's, who's killing all these people? Blah, blah, blah. For me, it was a bit like, you know in the magic of Murder, She Wrote, where people are getting killed like in every different street and it just always seems to be happening where she is.

1:26:35There's a lot of people dying in this quite small area for me to completely commit to it as a purely dramatic piece of television. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. No one seemed to be that shocked that in this same area, more people were dying. Do you know what I mean? You mean like the old Midsommar problem, that there's a lot of murders going on in Midsommar. But this is quite, you say it's quite a small area, but it's not that many homicides for such a size of town. I think there are. You think it is? Oh, okay. Yeah, I do. I think statistic-wise it's quite high. Per capita, the level of murder is quite high.

1:27:16okay maybe so yeah obviously she's on a mission to kind of she's on a mission to kind of right all the wrongs of all these terrible people around her whilst raising her daughter and really trying to get to the bottom of it as an actress I think she's great she's brilliant in this in terms of her role I just didn't really care for it that much I don't I don't I'm not bothered about who's killing everyone which is obviously key to continuing to watch it. Do you know? I know. Sorry, this sounds absolutely scathing. As a murder mystery goes, not really caring who the murderer is isn't great. You care about the...

1:27:54There's two things going on, aren't there, really? As you said, there's the murder, there's a body... She finds a body, and there's the fire going on in the thing, but there's also this kind of triangle of her colleague effectively bribing or blackmailing them, her and her husband, with, you know, with secrets, because there are secrets about him. they know about his corruption, which is worse than her husband's corruption. And so there's a constant kind of conflict going on between those two, her husband and the police guy, her boss, essentially. And that's interesting. I think that's the best element of the whole thing for me, is that you really resent the guy who's manipulating them and is playing tricks with them and he nominates her for a special award.

1:28:39He's creepy and exploitative. He's a bit too, like, I don't know. I don't want to say overacted, but I just feel like he kind of appears in rooms at times and goes, is everything okay? Oh, yeah. And I'm a bit like, oh, my God. Yeah, I mean, it's not... Again, I watched two episodes of this because I didn't want to get into that thing of, like, I only watched one episode, and actually maybe it is really good when you get into the second episode. You chose poorly. But I wasn't compelled to watch another one because I just didn't care enough about any of the characters. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's fine.

1:29:07Here's the thing. So is it... I know, James is like... James is like champing at the bitch. It's like, he's chomping, chomping, chomping. I believe it is chomping, but carry on. Can't wait to say it's an ITV. It's a... It's very ITV. ...box standard ITV. I mean, on one level it is, but here's the thing. Oh God. Use that phrase. I, I, I cared more about these people. Do you? Than... Oh no. I mean, I kind of wanted to know, I wanted to carry on watching this. there was more reason to carry watching this than A Night of the Thingy Watcher we need to get you checked by the way I fully acknowledge the fact that the production values of the night of the Game of Thrones spin-off were supreme and it was beautifully shot and it was very it was all very well done and it's lavish and all of that and this is you know this is a fairly stable BBC mainstream prime time crime thriller on BBC or ITV it's going to be on either or Channel 4 much smaller budget but I do kind of care about the characters I think she's great as you say Sophie Rundle you know who the MVP the most valuable person in the cast is the great Lorraine Ashbourne who is brilliant off of Riot Girls most recently she is so fantastic as her mum as the mum I do like that she alone is almost for me enough reason to watch and care and watching no absolutely not so I tell you I admit it is It is core ITV territory, but I find it enjoyable and compelling, and I kind of want to know what happens in the end.

1:30:48I just really need you to confirm out loud one more time that you care, you, Boyd Hilton, care more about the characters in The Flood than you do about Duncan the Tall in the Game of Thrones prequel. Kind of, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I'm philosophically against deriding ITV drama. You are. This has been going on for a while. There is a theme. How long have we been doing this podcast? A while. But so, and I admit, it's not as good, really, I'm sure, as the night. What's the call? A night of the Seven Kingdoms. A night of the Seven Kingdoms. But I just think, I'm interested in the situation and the characters, and Lorraine Ashmore in particular.

1:31:30Okay, but in a world where we're telling people how to spend their viewing you're standing by saying, go for after the flood. No, no, no, I'm not saying that. No, I'm just saying, my honest reaction, no, I'm absolutely not saying that. So I'm glad you've got, I'm clarifying. For me personally, there was more reason to carry on watching this than there was to carry on watching A Night of the Seven Kings. After one episode, that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying more than that. Maybe when I've watched the whole thing as you've admonished me about and I will watch the whole thing, I will say, okay, it was worth it and everything.

1:31:58But right now, that's the honest position I was in and, you know, that's all I'm saying. We reviewed season one of this, and my main takeaway from that was the ridiculously intrusive music. I remember you were saying the music, yeah. It was like, all right, calm down. It is back, but it's not as intrusive, I will say this time around, but this show is just ridiculous. There's a bit where someone literally is mad Googling, just Googling, psychology of shooting a dead body. It's so spoon-feeding you stuff. And there's a bit where, and I know this is obviously not a high-budget show, but they talk about the fire on the moors, and she gets there and she's like, oh, there's this huge fire, and you go there and there's this little bonfire behind them.

1:32:36It's a little barbecue, I know. And she's like, what are we going to do? I was like, I don't know, walk around it? Like, it's a bad, I mean, it wouldn't be a challenge. Like, Dante's Peak, this is not. And I was just like, really, really. But also, James, there is a literal cliffhanger in the business. There is, yeah. And for me, I was like, oh, God. Oh, yeah, that was exciting. I mean, was it? Was it? Not sure it was. I couldn't have cared when that person got this. There's a distant shot of that where this person just like flailing around and I genuinely just thought it was quite comedic. Yeah, she's standing on the wall and she just goes and it's just going ah, ah and then she walks over and finds someone falling into the like, off the cliff.

1:33:19Someone who in avoiding the tiny small bonfire has decided to almost hurl themselves off the side of a precipice. Yeah, I can't say, I would not say this qualifies as peak TV entertainment. But sure, look, if you are of a mind to watch Sophie Rundle run around around a bonfire, then, you know... He says patronisingly. He said patronisingly, then you might have a good one. I love an ITV drama. I do. I just, I don't love this one. No, fair enough. Okay. Fair enough. It feels like it's not fair enough, Boyd. It feels like you want me to love it. Not at all. No, no, no. I have no strong desire for you to...

1:33:53He's not in the pocket of a big flood. Yeah, no. Okay. I don't need to climb aboard the after the flood bandwagon and abandon the night of the simulators. I would never do that. Art of the Flood then. ITV when? It started yesterday, Sunday the 18th. It carries on today, Monday the 19th, and it's on two episodes a week in that pattern for the next couple of weeks. Exciting. Right, finally this week, we have the return of Apple's Drops of God. This is Kwok Dang Tran's Japanese-French series, which began when Fleur Guiffre's Camille Legere goes to the funeral of her estranged father, only to discover that her inheritance depended entirely on her ability to defeat this guy, this sort of almost like her spiritual brother, which is her father's star pupil, Tomohisa Yamashita's character, who is Issei Tomine.

1:34:36And they have to take part in a series of kind of, I guess, jigsaw-esque, fiendish, wine-related challenges to determine a winner. That's all been resolved now. But the second series, see sort of dear old dad once more reach out from beyond the grave with yet another quest. And this time it's to trace the origin of a mysterious vintage. So discuss this wine-oriented mystery. We turn now to notorious pisshead, Boyd Hilton. That's one of your best intros. I was not expecting to be called a pisshead. Champagne only, obviously. Oh, this is... Right, so series one... Oh my gosh, sorry, can I just mention, do you remember when you got that champagne disease?

1:35:16Do you remember when you got that? Diverticulitis. Yeah, yeah. And me and Kay literally could not believe we were like, only you would get something. you can only get from drinking coffee's amounts of champagne anyway this the first season we reviewed the first season I remember we did the first couple of episodes and Kay's watched all of this she really loved this we should acknowledge Kay co-colleague Kay job share Kay job share Kay loves this but a lot of people really love this show there's a huge amount a lot of listeners to the show go in touch saying you should finish Drops of God it's really good blah blah blah so but I didn't finish season one you did Decided not to take their advice.

1:35:54I've come into season one. You don't need to have watched, by the way, really season one, because this is a different story. It's set in the world of wine, so to speak, and it's another great wine mystery-based plot, storyline. And the storyline being that they're given, the dad bequeaths the winner of the competition he set in the previous series, the world's greatest bottle of wine. Now, I'm sorry, right? I'm no expert on wine. And I like a nice glass of red every now and then, as you say, champagne. But how do you determine the world? What does that even mean, the world's greatest wine? I mean, so that was one hurdle I had to climb.

1:36:34Obviously, they must employ loads of wine experts for this show. So there's lots of classic... It reminded me, was it the food show back in the day when... What was the show when there was like a wine expert? Oh. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the first time, if you're growing up and you heard something, all talk of, you know, it tastes... Notes of this. Notes of rose and, yeah. And there's loads of wine chat, like comparing wine to lots of bizarre, utre things going on in this show. But, and I kind of, and it's got, again, great production values. Apple TV throwing all the money there is. It looks great.

1:37:14It's very, it's kind of like, it's got kind of like a cold style, if you like. It's very magisterial and quite slow, isn't it? The kind of paces of it. I would say deliberately paced, to use that phrase. It's slow. It takes a while to get going. And I enjoyed it, and everyone's very good in it. Fleur Guiffrier, who did a very good job with your pronunciations, is very good. I don't really like the Issaid Cominé character, but he's supposed to be a bit of a... He's supposed to be a bit of a bellend, yeah. A bit of a bellend, yeah. But you know, I got to the end of the first episode, and I thought, it's great and everything, very well done.

1:37:47Do I really care about finding... It's not national treasure, is it? Yeah, but do I really care about finding why this bottle of wine is so amazing and is the best wine in the world? I don't know if I really do. But, you know, I love Apple. It's got the signature Apple TV approach to have incredible production values, but I'm not sure this is the one for me. And, you know, yeah, I don't think I'm going to... I'm riveted by the idea of finding out more about this bottle of wine. Well, it's more vibes-based, I think, than plot-based. It is a vibe. Like it kind of, like it's, I would, if I knew anything about wine, I would use some kind of analogy about swirling the thing and sniffing it and instead of just, whereas you just want to chug the bottle straight from, like neck it straight from the bottle.

1:38:28Basically. But no, you do have to kind of savour this a little bit because it's about the atmosphere, because it's beautifully shot. It really is, yeah, stunning. And they sit and, you know, they dial in, there's a whole free diving segment and he's barely searching for visions, which was a wild little plot strand. But I think you have to kind of almost immerse yourself in the bouquet of the series. Oh, nice. Well done, you. I'm going to say, right, on paper, if someone said, would you like to watch this show based on a manga comic, right, about wine, and you're going to have to read the show, as you know.

1:39:06Ginny Gordon, that's what I was thinking of. Carry on. Excellent, thank you. Glad we cleared that up. I would say, God, no, sounds terrible. I mean, I don't drink at all. So I couldn't, I literally could not give a shit about wine. I'm not a massive fan of shows you have to read. And, you know, so to me, I would be like, and it's the comic, you know, no. But I absolutely loved this show. Have you seen season one? I haven't seen season one and I'm going to watch it because I was concerned that I hadn't watched because this was the second time, obviously second season of After the Fire Flood thing, right?

1:39:40and I was like oh god this feels like something you'd have to watch the first season of and actually it isn't because again I googled what happened in the first season I loved it beautifully shot I found both the dynamic between the two main characters really compelling again you referred to the free diving kind of his exploration of his own character and his internal thoughts is fascinating to me. Something happens at the end of the first episode, which I think does make you want to watch more of it. I even really enjoyed... He did more than a night of the things. A night of the seven kingdoms.

1:40:18A night of the seven bottles. A wine of the seven countries. Even, I just, I found, even, you know, there's a bit where he goes, this bottle of wine that they open, which I... Unhelpfully doesn't have a label. No, it doesn't have a label because there was one with a label and there's only three bottles and then there's this investigation. How can we find... And I believe that this is the best bottle of wine and he wants to find the origins of this wine. And for someone who doesn't give a shit about wine, I want to know the origins of this wine. Waitrose. Yeah, I... Imagine if the climax is in Waitrose.

1:40:51It really drew me in. Even just like at the beginning where they go to, you know, all the stuff she's done with the vineyard and stuff. Just architecturally, I thought, I found it really visually pleasing. it is beautiful to watch I agree it's so visually enticing that it's almost reason enough to carry it on my big 75 incher here we go it looks stunning I've only got a 50 incher but I watched it on that and I just I really enjoyed it I found and you know to your point that you have to kind of immerse yourself in it I really did immerse myself and I thoroughly enjoyed it you're absolutely right the term for it being a vibe is key because it is like you can even though it's not it is slow it's still it's stateliness and it's beauty and it's kind of and that tone is very enticing I think so yeah I've kind of I loved it I really loved it it's appealing it does make me want to go back and watch the first season and I would do that if I had not read all of the Wikipedia episode summaries in advance of this second season thereby ruining for myself because I'm a professional boy and I felt like I wanted to know all of the information going into the second season drops of gods I do not know whether French or Japanese for that, so we'll just say it in English.

1:42:05And that lands on Apple TV when, Boydie? I think... Oh, you caught me out. You caught me out. I think. Boydie's going to guess. He's going to see... Wednesday. Wednesday. 21st of January, 2026. Fabulous. Right. What else is out this week, Boydie? What have we missed? Obviously, we did mention the Ryan Murphy show, The Beauty, which we will probably talk about on Pilot Plus. There's also Steel on Prime Video, which we might also talk about on Pilot Plus or do one or the other. Yeah. Part of the reason why we did two, not one but two second series which we try not to do try and prioritise brand new stuff we do both Steel which is a big thing with Sophie Turner that is heavily embargoed and The Beauty which is the Ryan Murphy show which he has worked on he has directed this it's with Ashton Kusher etc that is also heavily embargoed that's on Thursday we could have done Sander Can The Pirate Prince on Netflix but that dropped in quite late in the day and we'd already watched some of the shows John Hanna's in that and apparently A Pirate Prince so that's on Netflix drops on today in fact on Monday things you should have done do you remember things you should have done it's the BBC 3 that's on Tuesday on BBC 3 10 o 'clock this is the show the comedy that Joanna Page weirdly do you remember on her TV review podcast slagged off like the nicest person in the world what was the intention behind that she just found it she just it was a genuine reaction to it I don't I don't know to slag her off for doing it she just gave her honest it's a TV review show her and Natalie Cassidy I think it is and obviously other TV review shows are available but she just didn't enjoy it she didn't think it was that good and she said so I thought I admire honestly.

1:43:32But that did become like what this show was most famous for. I thought it was really funny. This is a big, absolute not a show for James. Working class people being funny and vulgar. It's classic non-James territory. So yeah, but it is back on Tuesday the 20th and I think it's a really good show. ITVX this Sunday. Both Gossip Girls arrive on ITVX. The original and the remake. So if you love a bit of Gossip Girl, it's all on ITV. Yeah, which is handy. And there's another one of these Netflix shows who's not entirely fanfared about, is Finding Her Edge. This is on Thursday on Netflix, Thursday the 22nd, and it's an adaptation of a novel about sisters who are part of a figure skating dynasty.

1:44:12Oh, my God. What? Yes, it's figure skating drama. Wow, okay. And before you scoff and say, well, I mean, you know, Heated Rivalry is an ice hockey-based drama, and look where that's gone. So, you know, it might be brilliant. I'm open to it. I love a wine-based drama now, so, you know, I'm open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But, yeah, that's Finding Her Edge. Netflix heavily embargoed but that is on Thursday and what is our pick of the week Steph oh after the flood right okay Boyd a night of the seven kingdoms god it's weird I don't know that's because you've made some really poor choices and decisions you have made some poor choices and comments in this episode don't say it's after the flood I might say it's after the flood don't say it's after the flood oh god Boyd is the actual worst I might say jobs of God I'm going to say jobs of God split the difference alright we'll let you off it's a night of the seven kingdoms right okay that is it for this week's show if you enjoyed it please do leave us a rating I don't think we've had a review in a while we've had some negative ones but I'm not going to read those out some yeah they do come for us occasionally okay I'm just saying Kay has not left she has just had it on a show that's true come back you know don't listen to the haters offset the haters leave us a five star review please and also if you want to follow us on the social medias we are at PilotTVPod at Boyd Hilton at James C.

1:45:22Dyer and what are you Steph what is your handle at Steph Sealand at Steph Sealand how original right okay super on next week's show I don't know what we're going to be doing, but Wonder Man lands on Disney Plus next week, shrinking. Kate will be very excited. Returns on Apple. Bridgerton is back on Netflix. What else have we got? Under Saltmarsh comes the Sky Atlantic. Under Saltmarsh, yes. Yeah, so a collection of some of those, I would think. Isn't this exciting? Steph, have you found your first episode? I'm afraid we're out of time. Thank you very much. Pilot out. Cheeky.