American Hostage, Slow Horses, and Crew Girl. With guests Patrick Brammall and Sanjeev Bhaskar

22:30yeah they did some sort of synchronised Vulcan salute or something this week and there was a massive there was a massive display in one of the stations I was in I think King's Cross oh I go to King's Cross but more importantly

22:43Boyd Hilton:Steph, there is now Star Trek Le Crusade cookware that you can get. Shut your face. I know, I must have it in my life. Is it Le Crusade? I know we have these conversations. I thought it was Le Crusade. I have always called it Le Crusade, but as someone pointed out, it's French, look at the way it's spelled, that's not how French words are pronounced. I was like, yeah, that's a very valid point. So I've now amended my pronunciation. You're pointing it out to yourself. Sounds like you. But in French, that would be Le Crusade, wouldn't it? It wouldn't be like Le Crusade, or I'm in Paris. No, it would be Le Crusade.

23:12Boyd Hilton:Yeah, but it'd be a double T-E, wouldn't it? It's E-T. If you are French. Are there some exceptions to that? Yeah, I think there are. If you're listening and you're French, please write in to postbag at pilottvpod.com and tell us how to correctly pronounce le... Whatever it is. Now, talk to me about this. What's it like? I don't know, it's got like a Star Trek logo on it. Whatever it is, I want it. Oh my God, I wonder if it's got like the logo, you know the way they have when they do the heart ones? Oh, do you think they'll bake it into a castle? Yes, I really do. That would be great. I want it.

23:41Boyd Hilton:Yeah, so do I. There's a whole range they've got, and I need it all in my life. And they're doing mugs. We should get mugs. Do they do mugs? Yes, I'm telling you. Yes, they do mugs. I'll look up the range. Carry on. Fine. Okay, anyway, so that's the other thing that I've kind of not been watching, you know, out of protest. Yeah. And that is about it. No, very good. Sorry, hold on. This is urgent. All right. Oh, my God. It's so good, James. It is so, so... James, just look at this. All right. Look at all this. I mean, it's pretty good. It's good stuff. I do want it all. Well, are they the mugs?

24:16Look.

24:17Boyd Hilton:No, this is the cookware. Yeah, but they do do mugs. The little casserole pot things. Limited edition, collectible pieces that bring Star Trek Legends into the kitchen. I want Star Trek Legends in my kitchen. Look, oh my God. James, James. Yeah. The mug, the mug you hold Spock's ear. I mean, that's pretty good. Oh, that's funny. Look. I've just Googled, by the way. I've just googled, how do you pronounce Le Crusay? And it says, and this is Gordon, you pronounce it La Cru-zay. La Cru-zay. Yeah. Okay. So, Le Crusay doing, look at that mug. It's a good mug. It's a mug with Spock's ear. This is working very well on an audio podcast.

24:55Boyd Hilton:Is that real or is it just like a fake mug? It's from John Lewis. It's a real mug. Okay, all right. It's£31. Right. Anyway. Anyway, carry on. Anyway, time is tight. We've got to move on. Shall we have our first guest? And look, it is Patrick Brammelt. So it is Gordon Crap himself. He came into this particular studio, co-star and co-creator of Colin from Accounts, and of course, star of Last Scene, which is on Apple TV+. In fact, literally the same week, last week, we had Last Scene dropping on Apple TV +, and the final season of Colin dropping on BBC2. These could not be more totally different if they tried.

25:29Boyd Hilton:But in Last Scene, he plays Ian Ridley, and he's like an emergency operator, like call center responder, and he answers the phone, and he gets a call from someone who he believes is his daughter who was kidnapped slash died slash disappeared 11 years previously. Now, Patrick came into this, or Paddy, Paddy, as he introduced himself to us, and as we now call him, as we are now all friends, he came to this studio and was, you know, stalked, you know, inappropriately, I would say, by Steph, and, you know, frankly, is now banned, as we said on Pilot Plus, he's now banned from doing interviews. Okay, I won't do anymore, fine.

26:00Boyd Hilton:You're banned from doing interviews because people like you more than us. Well, not true. Or else maybe you should do more interviews, like Alison Hammond. Well, I think I've done three, and I've got three firm friends now. You've made three people cry. Three on-air ones, yeah. Elizabeth Moth, Annie Taylor, Total Joy, and Patrick. And that's going to be my WhatsApp group, and I think that's fine. Okay. Well, anyway, this is all of us in the studio having a good old chat with Patrick Bramall. I've got to start with an apology. I've got to be honest. Today it's going terribly. So you may or may not have noticed I am wearing kind of Gordon Crap attire today.

26:34Boyd Hilton:You are. You have come in your cosplay. I am. The piece de resistance, however, is my authentic Echo Park Brewery baseball cap. How the fuck do you get that? Well, indeed. And do you know what happened? Raining this morning. I was late coming out of the house. Fucking left it in the hallway. I'm so gutted. I've worn it on this podcast before. I cannot believe I left it at home. You've let everyone down. I really have. I should feel bad. Well, you've let the show down. I have. Most importantly, you've let yourself down. I have. That's a prop. It was because you auctioned off the props at the end of the show.

27:04Boyd Hilton:Well, that's at least what the guy told me. From this season? Yes, from the final season. Okay, well, tell you what's so funny about that is that there were, because we don't make those for merch, you know. They were in the show, so they were hanging behind the bar and everyone was eyeing off their caps and T-shirts. And I was like, I'm going to get one of those fucking green caps. And by the time I got there, the grips or something, there were no green caps left. How did you get one? I've got a green cap and you don't know one. That is ridiculous. That is outrageous, James. You need to send your green cat immediately.

27:33Boyd Hilton:It would be the decent thing. It would be the only thing to do. Relinquish the hat. Well, it's clear now that the reason why I left it behind was because you would have... I absolutely stole it. Yeah, right. So actually, it's a really good thing. This is worth it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, good. I'm feeling bad tonight. It's a good result for you. Thank you. But obviously, Colin, very funny show. Last scene, less so. Yes. I just wondered, you know, being a comedic actor and whatnot, did you think, you know, this is a guy, Ian, who is riven by grief for like a decade. He is, there's nothing worth living for.

28:01Boyd Hilton:He's an alcoholic. He's on the edge. There is nothing going right for him. Did you think, fuck yes, I'm going to spend six months in your skin? Like what was going through your head? Believe it or not, I did. I was like, here we go. This is, as an actor, that's what you want. You want to have a thing to live in, you know, and be somebody else. Because I've been doing Colin from Council. Obviously, I love that show deeply, deeply. I'm very proud of it. But when this came along, I mean, it's not like I planned to do it. It came to me and they were talking about it before. it, no audition for it.

28:29Boyd Hilton:For many reasons. One of them, because it's like Apple's first foray into Australia. And I was like, well, Apple don't do anything by halves. This is going to be good. And the script, I was like, this is full on. And I guess as much as anything, I was a bit like, can I do this? Because it was a bit scary, but it was a joy to go into that kind of, into that emotional terrain. But then, yeah, you're right. It was a hundred day shoot. And I remember a couple of months after we finished, I looked back and I thought, It was a pretty fucking weird headspace to inhabit. It is. Yeah, it was a bit like, I don't know what it was like, but it was strange.

29:03Boyd Hilton:But yeah, the character is absolutely torn apart by grief and all sorts of shit. Yeah. Guilt and, you know, he's not, at first blush you think he's a desperate parent looking for his daughter. And that's a sort of heroic thing, a hero's journey or whatever. But as the show goes on, his single-mindedness is driven by something else, I think. And there's a lot of collateral damage happens around him. and actually you see he's not that heroic really at all. And the guy who's the villain maybe isn't as villainous as you think. So it becomes, I think that's what sets it apart as a genre piece, as a thriller.

29:36Boyd Hilton:It's a bit, it's extremely morally ambiguous. I mean, you are a classically trained actor. So even though I think people will associate you with Colin, but you are, okay, you are. And for me, so I came back from my holiday. I watched The Devil Wears Prada on the plane. Oh, wow. Then on the Tuesday, The Devil Wears Prada 2, Then on the Tuesday... You're not just telling. You're not for what. No, no, no, no. Then I watched Colin from Accounts, the first six episodes, because we only got six. Then on Friday, I watched all of them. Then on Friday, I watched Last Scene. I started at three o 'clock.

30:12I finished at ten o 'clock. Then, yesterday, I watched the last two Collins, okay? In the middle, I watched Bluey episodes, The Sign and Double Babysitter, okay? I'm just going to put it out there. I think you might be the most bingeable actor in the world.

30:28Boyd Hilton:I want to clip that and get it on my obituary or something. Honestly. You've had a real Bramwell marathon. I have had, right. We do have restraining orders in the US. Fantastic. It was amazing. What was that like? I mean, how amazing am I? But to bounce around in those genres, I mean, Dev Wears Prada 2 and Colin, sure, you know, that's a charming world. But to go to last scene and then to come back to watch the last two episodes of Colin. Yeah, it was, I'm going to say, it's testament to your classical training that you can do that. Make me laugh, make me cry, make me scared. You really are amazing.

31:04Wow. I'm glad I came here today. My question is, which of those is Patrick? Which of those is the most like Patrick Brammer?

31:14Boyd Hilton:Probably Gordon. Gordon. It would be worrying if it was Ian. Yes, it would. I mean, thankfully it's not. Yeah, it's not. Yeah, I mean, I think when you're playing a part, it's where I always feel. I mean, when I was studying drama in drama school, acting school, it was like you've got to go and become that character. And I think actually for me anyway, it's more like where do I meet the character? And that's the thing. It's like playing Hamlet. You're not going to be Hamlet. You're going to be your version of that character, not that I've ever played Hamlet, but I should. Be classically trained.

31:44Boyd Hilton:It's about time they'd be fine. It should be easy. But so with Gordon, Harry and I write that. So it's a fictionalized version of our kind of thing that we do. And so it's not that far from me. But Ian is. So that was – and one of the big differences was like stillness. Ian is very, very still. And it was a bit of an acting challenge to just trust that I'm interesting enough for the camera to read the things on my face, you know, Because in comedy, it's very front-footed and it's about momentum and rhythm. And in Last Scene, it's not that at all. It's all the emotions in here. So I was very connected to the emotional landscape of the character and I just had to trust that that was enough.

32:31Can I just ask, sorry, Boyden, I know you're reaching for a question. Can I just ask, saying that you're connected to kind of the emotions of that character, I really felt like I have a little girl. I know you have two little girls. Like how much could you draw on kind of the primal fears that you have when you have a child and you're like, how much did that sort of inform your performance?

32:49Boyd Hilton:It informed it a lot. Yeah. I mean, and I'm not the sort of actor who goes and scrapes out my old memories and stuff for any role, but my eldest was three when we were shooting this and Ian's daughter, when she's kidnapped, is three. And so it was right there. And also our youngest was born. Like she was like a month old when I started shooting. I left LA to go to Melbourne to start shooting this when she was 12 days old. So it was very raw for me. And I was like, well, I'd be stupid to ignore this. It's all right there. And so it was, I did go there emotionally. And that's a bit rough, but also what are you going to do?

33:23Boyd Hilton:That's what was called for. I think it brings an emotional depth to that performance, which is incredible to see. The two roles could not be more different. And the two shows could not be more different. Is it weird for you that they're coming out the same week? This is Patrick Bram a week. It really is. Globally. It really is. And for two completely... There are scenes, particularly later on in the last scene, when you're confronting family members and your ex-wife, etc., where you have to get to the most raw emotion possible, right? It's hard to think of a role more raw and out there and emotional.

33:59And yet we're used to seeing you being sarcastic and flippant and funny in Colin. Was there a contrast in the way you approached filming as well?

34:10Boyd Hilton:well because i'm not in control all i had was acting i was just acting in this so it's in a way it's a huge it's a huge luxury to be able to just take care of my own needs as an actor whereas on colin it's i'm thinking about everything the weather's bad we were going to change logistics oh one of the actors is sick whatever you know um so there's that i get to just that's my purview with the acting department and that's all but like i say the rhythm of this character was different yeah i mean in terms of the timing it's pretty fucking crazy because we we shot last scene it was like five months at the start of 2025 and then and then after that i shot deb wears prada too those bits in that it was like a day here a day there for a few weeks and then we went to montreal harry had a show she did for cbs called dmv so we're in montreal for five months and then we but and all through that we're writing season three the two of us because we're the only writers on that show and and then we started shooting colin in february this year and turned it around and delivered it really quickly we're in the edit for 11 weeks harry and i are there every day looking at every take everything and then we delivered that and so the fact that they're coming out within days of each other is mental it doesn't make any sense but also it's like it's like a form of self-therapy because i felt like so yesterday i watched all six episodes of last scene i was a sobbing wreck on the floor by the end of it and so before i went to bed i put on the finale of Colin to restore my sanity.

35:33Boyd Hilton:So I feel like you're giving and you're taking away at the same time. So that works. Zero-sum game. Yeah, exactly. But last scene is so much more than just a father finding. What I really loved about it, what I thought set it apart, was the family drama behind it. Absolutely. Like the webs of deceit, those family layers. And really interesting, I watched your Who Do You Think You Are? and you're 5 % Chinese. 5 % to 7%. Sorry, I'm so sorry. 5 % to 7%. But... Is that mental? That was, I mean, that's crazy. It was really good. It was good. It was an incredible experience to do that. Yeah, it looked amazing.

36:07But yeah, I thought that's really set it apart because you think, okay, he's just got to find out if this is his daughter and he's got to try and get her back. But it's so, so much more than that. And is that one of the things that really attracted you to the script?

36:21Boyd Hilton:Yeah, I think there were other reasons. I was already committed to the project. Firstly, they were interested in me. That's the first thing. It's like, what drew you to the role? They wanted me for it. So that drew me to the role. So it's Apple. I met with Christian, the director, this German director who's amazing. And I felt like, oh, this guy's really plugged into it. I feel safe with him. And a few other things. And then the script was good. And then as we worked on it more and more, it sort of revealed itself to be that. So you do come for the genre and the propulsive plot of it and all that kind of thing.

36:54Boyd Hilton:It's weirdly not an unfamiliar sort of genre now, like the desperate parent and the missing child sort of thing. But then it does reveal itself to be this intergenerational trauma family study. Like it's quite strange how it does that. It's an interesting structure, isn't it? Because this could have been, you could have left the mystery of what happened to your little girl. Go on for episode, off episode. But quite soon in the story, we know effectively, we're pretty sure what's happened. And was that always the case? Yeah. Yeah. And so it becomes, it's not one of those ones every episode you go, oh, maybe she did it.

37:26Boyd Hilton:Actually, he's got a reason too. and by the end you reveal. You find out what happened pretty early on, like you say, and then it's like, how and why did that happen? And then it becomes very character-driven as much as plot-driven. Does the atmosphere on set, for such a serious, a show dealing with such serious things as last scene, does the atmosphere differ from when you're doing the delights of Colin? Yes and no. I think because this, well, the people we had on this on last scene were so fucking delightful. like Maxine Peake is like the naughtiest she's always got a twinkle in her eye and she's so funny and she's got a terrible poker face like she's very funny she's got a real great sense of the absurd Dan Henschel is one of Australia's great actors and Australia's not Australians and he's very funny as well Brendan Cowell you know he's got this kind of incredible presence on screen.

38:19Boyd Hilton:He's terrifying. Yeah and he's a writer and he's very funny he's a raconteur he's highly charismatic so we We had a great time on set. There was a lot of laughter, actually, but we gave each other and the crew as well, and the crew was amazing, the space to inhabit that darkness. We had to because that's the show. And the book is set in Texas, right? Yeah. And we're so used to sort of Apple and people taking things that are set in other countries and moving them to America. I think it's quite interesting that they did the reverse with this. I love that they did that. Yeah. I think – and the book, because I did read the book before.

38:52Boyd Hilton:I had lots of time after I was cast before we started shooting. I thought, I'll read it. And so it's a very different story. There are some things which obviously we've used in this show as well. But where the book goes right, the creative team on this made a choice to go left. And it's the character of Sarah in the book is aware of what's happening to her. And she's trying to get away. And she's locked in a basement, all this sort of stuff. And the decisions that were made by the writer and the producers in this to make it a different story makes it, when you suddenly see that character of Sarah, you go, hang on, she's in this quite idyllic family situation.

39:28Boyd Hilton:She seems quite happy, actually. I didn't expect that. And that was really smart, I think. Yeah, definitely. It makes it a much more nuanced sort of layered story. Yeah. And especially the character, because as you say, it's not quite as clear-cut as heroes and villains. No. It's messier than that. Much messier. Yeah. And Ian and Henry, my and Brendan's characters, are kind of two sides of the same coin. But I love that your experience of it, you're saying you watch it, you just kept, you binged a whole bunch of it. I literally couldn't stop it. Yeah, I finished at two in the morning last night.

39:53Boyd Hilton:I'm not sure it's good for your mental health, but it is necessary if you have them. No, but it is so propulsive that you do... I mean, I was just like, I have to find out why. I have to find out... I have to get all my questions answered. And, you know, you do. It's incredibly... Two very satisfying endings from you this week. Very, very good. Thank you. I'm very pleased. On the Colin thing, we were discussing this recently, because Colin is one of these shows that everyone who's seen it, and a lot of people haven't heard of it, right? But everyone who's seen it thinks it's amazing. and I think one of the things it does is it uses so many different types of comedy you've got slapstick in there you've got cringe comedy in there you've got very dry humour in there you've got silly humour in there so it feels like no matter what your comedy bone is it tickles it right because I be honest I struggle with comedy like I struggle with so many I genuinely do not find shows funny most of the time Colin absolutely destroys me I think it's genius so that may reflect poorly on you it's unclear but you know and I do think it's all of those things I think it's because I'm in the game of making it, I know how the sausage is made a bit.

40:53Boyd Hilton:I'm like, I see what's happening here, but it doesn't resonate with me necessarily. And so for Harry and me, it was always like, is it funny? And does it feel real? And if it's something that we've seen before, we'll scrap it. If it feels like something that we know what's going to happen, we've seen this before, then generally speaking, we won't do it. Because it does feel fresh. There's nothing in there that feels tropey or feels like a retread of anything we've seen elsewhere. That's high praise. But there's a very distinct, I would say, Australian thread of humor for it, right? Oh, yeah. The scene in the park with the gender of your party, it's just low-key genius all the way through.

41:31Boyd Hilton:And it's essentially background to a narrative scene. Yeah. But it's so fucking funny. Yeah. It's so good. I was just saying on the way over here, actually, that's the, you know, because the socials team, you know, they clip bits of the, clip it and put it on socials. And they put on that altercation I have with the guys. Like, can you put your dog on a leash? and like it's a crippled dog, mate. And that went gangbusters. Yeah. But because people in the comments were like, well, no, he should put a leash on the dog. No, he shouldn't because it's a crippled, and people are morons. It's like, that's not the point.

42:00Boyd Hilton:It's a really funny scene. It is, yeah. And the thing that I always, when I talk about Colin, I say is that Harriet has the most extraordinary awkward face. Do you know what I mean? I always talk about face acting. They think I'm an idiot when I do it. But the facial contortions when something awkward is happening and it's, again, genius. I mean, talk about someone who doesn't have a poker face. Oh, yeah. Harry, it's all there. That's one of the reasons she's such a great actress, you know. She's so funny. She is so funny and she is so, she is a goddess and literally I want to be her best friend, of course.

42:31But look, okay, is it over? Is this really over for you? Are you never going to come back to Colin again?

42:38Boyd Hilton:I think so. Okay. Well, you can't have the cat back, so. Yeah. I'm coming to your house. I'm staying here for the rest of the day. I'm following you. I think so because that's the story. Like we could go on, but it becomes the adventures of Colin and Gordon and Ashley, which like we love these characters and we love the world. But A, we've got two kids under five. We do everything other than direct it. And B, the story is like three acts these seasons, it feels like to us. And then in that first moment they meet each other and you've seen the end of the season three. You know, it's all contained in that first moment in a way.

43:13Boyd Hilton:It's like there's chaos and do they choose to embrace the chaos or not? And that's the story. Did you always know how you were going to end it? No. No, no, we didn't have a clue. I watched a video where you were being interviewed and Harry was saying that she wanted you to die at the end of it. Yeah, yeah. Which I thought was interesting. It was actually a good idea. Yeah. And it was an idea, it was sort of a locked off shot and you saw and it was me and it was Aisling Gordon and Colin on the bed, you know, above the bed. and there was like time goes on, Colin gets a bit older. You see Ash has a bump, she's pregnant, there's a baby there, Colin's older, the kid grows, Colin's gone.

43:52Boyd Hilton:And then I'm growing, there's another dog there and then I'm older and then I'm gone. Gordon dies. And he's replaced by a Great Dane. And we were seriously considering that for a long time and then we thought I think that's a bit of a downer actually. Like this show is a comfort food for a lot of people and we have to respect that. Yeah. But you have a dog. You have Wally. You have, oh, oh. Yeah, I love him. I love him. He's fine. Fine. He's fine. All right, good. What kind of dog is he? Is he a border terrier as well? No, he's a chihuahua cross. Oh, I love him. Oh, so cute. Oh, my gosh. I love him so much.

44:26Patrick, I have a dog. Oh, yeah. And I know you've said her name's Nancy, and I know you've said you're going to end it. But look, I just want you to take this into consideration.

44:38Boyd Hilton:That's Steph's dog, by the way. I mean, we should say for the audio medium here, That is stunning. There's a picture of Steph's dog in the Colin roll, and it's called, what's it called, Steph? It's called Nancy from Marketing. That is your pitch. I mean, that's what a pitch. Season four. Incredible pitch. I mean, it's not a no. You know, I mean, he's done a lot of work on it. Something to think about on your 20-hour flight back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just leave it there, okay? Really good. And we don't have to say, as you say, it's not a no. It's not a no at this stage. No. We love what you're doing.

45:09Boyd Hilton:We think you're wonderful. Yeah. Great meeting. Let's circle back. Will the two of you do another kind of comedy, TV comedy, you think? I reckon we'll definitely collaborate again. I mean, of course we will. We've got so many ideas we want to do. We just need to have a break for a minute. And I think we can't help but write something funny. And we like it with an edge. You know, with Colin, we love to put the dark right up against the light. So I think we'll play with the balance of that. But it will certainly be funny in some way or another. And can I ask, so we saw, Patrick Bramall action star in Last Scene, okay?

45:46Is that in your future? Are you thinking?

45:48Boyd Hilton:Yeah, have you got something? Nancy for marketing? I just think, you know, I liked seeing you run across those fields. Wield a gun. Wielding a gun. I don't mind wielding a gun. Running across fields. No. I mean, I'm 50. I turned 50 the other day. I'm not as excited about stunts as I once was. Well, happy birthday. Thank you. You could be the new Liam Neeson though. You could just do an endless series of... I think you need another 10 years before you can be a Jerry Action star. You need to be minimum 60. But Neeson's been doing Action stuff for decades already. He sure has. Who knows? Never say never.

46:25I do also have to mention your most important role in 2020. You took up the role of Radley Heeler. Okay?

46:34Boyd Hilton:Yeah. Now, I heard the other day that he is not appearing in the Bluey movie. You're telling me. And I just really want to get your response to that because I and my seven-year-old were outraged. We were fucking outraged. You were outraged. As I said to Joe Brum, the genius creator, I said, as a friend and colleague, I really hope the movie goes well. But as Uncle Radley, I hope it dies. It's obviously going to be genius, but it just wasn't the story he wanted to tell, the Uncle Radley story. I think that'll be the follow-up. well it needs to be the Radley movie the Radley movie origin story I'm thinking Radley and Frisky have you know kind of a show of their own that's what I'm thinking the Radley and Frisky show yeah I mean come on it sounds great already yeah you're getting some incredible ideas this morning I thought about these for a long time Blue is like Australia's biggest cultural export at the moment isn't it it is absolutely wild I think it was something like the most watched show in the world it's insane I feel like every single child around the world is raised now on Blue It.

47:38Boyd Hilton:It's stunning. I mean, it's the most beautiful show. It is because it's not just kids that are raised on the show. It's parents that are raised on the show, let me tell you that. Because the way that it works is so clever because it's so – some of those episodes are just so much – I can see it crying to those episodes. Oh, mate. My God. The amount of times we've been sitting there watching it with our – With the girls. With Joni. I mean, Mabel's too young. She likes a theme song and then she tunes out. But Joni will, like, leave the room. and Harry and I are sitting there sobbing. Like by the end, they do it every time.

48:08They're really, they're evil geniuses.

48:11Boyd Hilton:They're very, very good. Very, very good. And are they aware? Are they aware that mummy and daddy are actors and writers? Are they aware in any way that you're in the biz? A little bit, a little bit. And I did try to tell Joanie that I was Uncle Rad while she was watching Bluey. Did you? She didn't want to know. Oh, my God. It was like I was a mosquito or something. She didn't even respond. She was just like, fuck off. And I respect that. Yeah, you've got to respect that. Never break the illusion. No, no. Oh my God. Well, when I told my daughter that I was meeting Uncle Rad, she lost her mind, right?

48:45And then she asked me all about you and I told her all about you and then I showed her a picture of you and your two daughters and she said, we need to buy them a present. I agree. Well, first, I think you need to play the video first.

48:56Boyd Hilton:Okay. Amazing. Up to the microphone. Okay, I'm going to play the video. There's a video. This is my daughter, Gracie. How old's Gracie? Gracie has just turned seven. Incredible. Okay. Right, so. Hi, Mabel. Hi, Joni. I can't believe your dad is Uncle Rad. I love Bluey and I watch it all the time. And I also think it's really funny. And also, I've got these little presents and I really hope you like them. I'm going to be honest. I made her cut off the bit where she said, will you come to a play date? at my house because I thought it was just too much. You know what? If the girls are here, you're on.

49:38Boyd Hilton:Oh my gosh. Next time. I have. I'm very into things with people's names on it. So this is a book called Mabel and the Mountains. I know your little girl is called Mabel and it's about believing in yourself and it's beautiful and I read it to my daughter when she was little. Steph, I'm going to cry. Okay. Now, what's really annoying is we got Joni a colouring book with her name on it and it didn't come in time. It's coming today but I'm going to somehow get it for you because on every page is the name Joanie, and you colour it in. And it's so grey, and I'm so upset it didn't come. But anyway, so then we got this little boo-boo notepad for Joanie.

50:11Boyd Hilton:She's going to love that. Yes, because it's furry, and you know kids. And then Gracie thinks this is going to cause an argument, but I was like, look, you know what, they'll find a way. So one for each. This is a palm-pow dragon fruit, and this is a palm-pow narwhal, and they are for your girls, okay? I am blown away. Thank you very much. That's stunning. Yeah. That's good. Favourite. This is my favourite thing. There we go. The best podcast. It really is. That's Gracie. Gracie's very big on the gift giving. She's very big on that. Please tell Gracie. She's very wonderful. Yeah. Well, thank you for being Uncle Rad to me because you have saved me many times, many times.

50:51Boyd Hilton:My pleasure. And thank you for the gift of Colin from Accounts, which is a comedy that I enjoyed. And that is not something I say lightly. No, I hear that. It's fabulous. Yeah. More, please. We'll discuss that. No, we won't. Well, Patrick, thank you so much for coming in. It's been a delight to have you. For me too. Really. Fantastic. Okay, that was us and Patrick Bramall, and it is time now for, I guess, news, isn't it, Boydie? Yes. Should we do news? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, for sure. Do you want to go through all the winners of the NTAs? Absolutely not. Oh, I love it when you do a list. Do a short list.

51:24I was going to say that Call the Midwife, one best returning drama, Beating Blue Lights, Bridges and Stranger Things, from Trigger Point. this causing me actual physical pain right okay you're only allowed to say that and I'm mainly doing this to cause him physical pain he looks he does look he's shaking his head I can't even in comedy Mrs Brown's voice as previously alluded to beat Amanda Land changing ends the last one laughing and not going out which are all better than that show I hasten to add Vicky McClure won best drama performance James you love Vicky McClure so that's something yeah she was great as well Sheridan Smith were sitting just behind and they were bonded and it was good over working class actresses and stuff.

52:05Yes. So that was good. Serial drama, you don't care about that. Emmerdale won. I mean, in many ways I don't care about most of these but carry on. Yeah, thanks. And Gogglebox won Factual Entertainment and Celebrity Traitors won its category whatever that category is. So yeah. Our new drama, I Thought the Law one which is the thing with Sheridan Smith. There you go. Meeting the other Bennett sister. There's also like Emmy Awards as well. Loads of Emmy Awards have been handed out already. Yes. And I... I'm upsetting Steph. Well, I just, I don't know why I'd never... It's just so confusing how they do it with the two days of things.

52:41And I can't remember... I don't feel like they've done that before, but Boyd says they always do it. They do. They've always done it. But I suppose I just, when the actual proper Emmys primetime show happens, then I'm just looking at those. But I do think, and I will say it again, I know I said it on the last, I think supporting actors should be in the main. They should be in the main. Yes, it is weird. I agree with you, but the problem is they have so many categories with actors in different genres. Are they limited series? Are they ongoing series? It's endless. I wanted Linda Cardellini and David Harbour to have their moment because their performances are outstanding in DTF St.

53:16Louis. Indeed. Well, what I would say is the tally so far, which I think is indicative of how admired these shows are. So in the Emmys so far, Widows Bay is winning with eight. then there's DTF St. Louis with six The Traitors the American Traitors with six Spider Noir got five which has been cancelled Spider Noir has been cancelled and I care not a lot I know we both really did not care about that we all didn't like it but M5 gave it five stars yes The Muppet Show for us love The Pit it's got four Pluribus it's got four Beef has got three so all the big shows already are getting their fair share The Pit will get the majority of them in the main I think in the prime time don't you but I really want Matthew Rhys to win Voido's Bay as leading actor I really want him to win yeah that's a tough it is a tough category I don't know if he can beat no it's no Wiley he's up against isn't it yeah the other big contender I think oh it's hard it's hard in non-awards news James was very relieved to know I've moved on from awards no more lists until we get the proper Emmys as they call them in America the proper Emmys the prime time Emmys this will settle down for the proper ones I'm very excited because one of my favorite shows has been coming back has been given a date to start um october the 14th i think it is and do you know what it is can you guess what foundation no it's a netflix show oh it's a diplomat no well that's very soon yeah we will move on to that very soon no october 23rd my lupa oh you do like that yeah part four this fourth series is arriving and they've issued some photos, lots of photos of Omar C, as I think his name is pronounced, in lots of spectacular Parisian locations.

55:00I bet Lupin has some Le Creuset stashed away in his kitchen. He definitely does. He definitely, absolutely, 100 % was. And yes, there is the Diplomat Season 4 news where there was Alison Jani did an interview with a rival publication that I won't name. No. And she talked about how wild the new season is. So all you want to know is, as fans as we all are of the show, the madness is the best thing about it. It picks off seconds after what happened at the end of the previous series. And she's confirmed the madness. And she has confirmed. She said when she read the script, she went, oh, Jesus. Oh, Alice and Janney with an oh, Jesus.

55:42An oh, Jesus. And she got the chills. So I'm saying they're pushing it to new extremes. They're pushing the boundaries. I agree.

55:50Boyd Hilton:Although it is rare that an actor would say, yeah, I got the script. and I thought, oh, wow, this is shit. No, she doesn't have to say that. She doesn't have to say that. No, she doesn't have to say that, exactly. No, that's true. That's true. Now, look, I've loved every episode of The Diplomat so far. It's only Kay that didn't like The Running at the end of the first season. Oh, yeah, The Running, yeah. But, yeah, we loved it. If Kay doesn't like The Running, that's okay. Is it? Is it? Is it okay, though? Yes, it is. You know that show that we all didn't like but then you watched and you absolutely loved Furious?

56:19Do you know that? Yes. That's had a season two renewal. Good. because it's great. Yes. Now, I haven't gone back and watched it, but I am going to. You will love it. I will. I need to as well. I'm going to do that this weekend. I'm going to promise myself. Oh, are you? You're going to do that this weekend? Maybe I'll do it this weekend. You should. It's great. I don't want you to be ahead of me. Yeah. Were you happy with the ending? Yes. You were really happy.

56:39Boyd Hilton:I thought the final episode was really good. And does it make its way for a second season? Well, there's an element of closure to it. Like, you could totally see it as a self-contained thing. But the character still exists, right? She's not dead. Spoiler. So, yeah, you could totally continue her. And she's a really interesting character. Are you not talking about Emmy Rossum's character, though, are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are. That's who I thought you were talking about, Kate. Because I don't know if... I feel like the other one might come to something. I'm selling you nothing. Yes, this is very, very exciting.

57:07So, the creator, Liz Merriweather, has said she is not using the show as a platform to advocate murdering people, just so we can be clear about that. Just to clear that up. Yeah, well, she obviously felt she needed to. So, there you go. so that's exciting news has anyone seen the clip they put out it's not a trailer they put a clip out of a forthcoming Channel 4 show called It Gets Worse which is Leo Reich you know Leo Reich who's in Lena Dunham the Lena Dunham show Too Much he's the gay guy who stole the show in every scene he was in he was the colleague at work and he was really inappropriate and he's got his own show coming up which I watched this clip they showed it to us at the Edinburgh TV Festival Channel 4 and they put it out there now and it's Andrew Scott plays Leo Wright is a young 20-something guy and Andrew Scott is his therapist and the scene they put out and Andrew Scott says to him he first of all he looks completely inappropriate he puts his finger in his mouth Andrew Scott puts his finger in Leo Wright's mouth spits in his mouth and he says you're just a hole for daddy and it's in the most extraordinary clip yeah and I think this is going to be a wild show what is it about?

58:16I mean really? oh god yeah what is the show about? It's about, you know, it's like about three millennials probably or whatever. You know, people in their 20s, they're millennials? I don't know. Anyway. I think they're Gen Z. They're Gen Z. Gen Z. I'm a millennial. That's kind of right.

58:31Boyd Hilton:Yeah, we're millennials, aren't we? Yeah. I meant Gen Z. Boydie, with the best will in the world, you are not a millennial. I'm a millennial. No, you're really not. Leave him alone. If he wants to be a millennial, he's going to be a millennial. You're about two decades off being a millennial. You. Mid to late 40s. You're all right. Anyway. You're a millennial. Us millennials. Thank you. Anyway, it's about the young people, what they have to go through and their issues and their sexuality, etc, etc. And it looks fantastic. And Andrew Scott absolutely kills in that clip. So yes, check it out. Have you seen the first look pictures from Treasure Island?

59:08Yes. Have you? They're very exciting. I'll show them to you. So, right, and I'm going to get this right. David Oyelowo. Yes. Tom Sweet and Jack Houston in Treasure Island. Look at that, isn't that exciting?

59:21Boyd Hilton:It's the three actors you mentioned standing in a line. Yeah, but they're also dressed in their outfits. What's genius is, I was really, I had high hopes for that. I was like, of all the pictures you could have shown me, that might be one of the least exciting pictures I have ever seen. I think it's exciting to see people in their costumes. What about this one? They're standing upright. They appear to have good posture. How does this one grab you? Again, three people, four people standing in a line. They're C behind them. Okay. They do not appear to be falling down. Yes, this is great. If you care about this, if you care about this adaption, if you care about this, then this is exciting.

59:53And I do care. I do care a lot. Well, if you care, then we can. Oh, thanks, babe. No, James has literally said he doesn't care. No, no, it's not that I don't care about the show.

1:00:02Boyd Hilton:I'm simply saying that the shot that you showed us did not live up to the hype. It's interesting. There's a whole world, the whole world of first-look photos is preposterous, isn't it? Because it's just the way it works. They put out first-look photos of every major show there is. and most of the time they're just completely dull. No, I totally buy into first look. I love the marketing around it. I love, I get really excited if I think I'm seeing a first look photo. but like the OMRC pictures, they are quite pretty, they're just very well done and they're not just him standing there in alignment.

1:00:34But it's nice to see people in their costumes, in the outfits. Costumes, yes, you're right. Yes. Isn't it? It is nice. It's lovely. Okay, fine. I'm not going to show you any more first looks unless there's something crazy. The thing is, you can't have a first lit photo that is too crazy because they don't want to give anything away. So it has to be quite, you know, pedestrian in a way. That is interesting. You get to see their outfits. That is interesting. I'll tell you, what I'm excited to see is, you know, James Corden's going to be in Department Q. This news broke. Right. Well, there you go.

1:01:05Is he? Yes, yes. I'm excited for the return of that show. Same. He plays Dr. Ben Smith, an eccentric but brilliant forensic psychologist. So, promising. High sight. That is promising. And I've got a feeling that James Corden wouldn't do such a show unless he was like the main antagonist, like the main villain, if you like, of the piece, the killer. It's my guess. I have no actual evidence because that's not mentioned, but they have confirmed that he is taking that role. Good show that, and it's been away for a while. But look, we need to talk about some film news. But James, I don't know whether you've noticed, but this is a TV podcast, so we absolutely cannot talk about film.

1:01:44Let's move on to reviews.

1:01:45Boyd Hilton:Except the Inbetweeners are back. Oh, yeah. And I feel like we have to acknowledge the surprise for me that they're doing a third Inbetweeners movie. How much money do you think Netflix have thrown at them, at the four guys? The four middle-aged men. The four middle-aged men to do this thing. But there's an appetite for it, so... Oh, I'm not having a go, by the way. I'm just absolutely, you know, everyone has their price and they'll be fun they'll have a great time we'll have a great time watching it I'm a huge fan of the in-betweeners but it is surprising I initially was lukewarm on this whole idea right but I think as it's been pitched it's a reunion movie so they're all old now so I actually think this is going to be really good yeah oh yeah and by the way Ian Morris and Damon Beasley are still involved and they are lovely I've met them and they're both really really great yeah absolutely known them for years have you?

1:02:43yeah Ian well I've just met them once they're lifelong friends of Boyd's I went on set of the Inbetweeners 2 movie oh gosh are you going to be in it? I hope so you actually probably could be in it I hope so the biggest surprise is Simon Bird I think doing it because he's because he's really yeah he's just like he's almost given up performing like he doesn't do much he hasn't done much to it he directs loads of great stuff he's a really successful director TV director so I he's the one I bet he was the whole I think he's getting paid more than everyone else I'm not saying I don't know about that but in the end it's like why not you're going to have a good time you're going to be paid absolutely gazillions worth of Netflix this is Netflix money it's Netflix money take that Netflix money you've got the original creators as you say yeah

1:03:25Boyd Hilton:why not I'm not the biggest Inbetweeners fan it has to be said I've seen all the films and all the episodes I have seen the whole thing you've seen the whole thing even though you didn't like it yeah why it's a little crass it's a little for my taste why do you keep watching it it's hard to say yeah that's weird isn't it? Oh God. You could have just turned off. I could. Watch something else. Okay. Before we started this podcast I had more free time. Okay. Right. There's other news. There is other news. So in a list of things so The Last of Us Part 3 it has been confirmed by Neil Druckmann head of Naughty Dog that Naughty Dog are now not connected to the show in any way.

1:04:02Boyd Hilton:Why? They've gone. They've made their set it's hard to say but Craig Mason Doug was too naughty. Well because he was yes. Neil Druckmann was co-show running with Craig Mason but now it is just Craig Mason. We knew that but Naughty Dog have completely detached themselves from the show. So there's obviously been some creative ructions there, which bodes ill for the third season. But anyway, what else has happened? Silo, season four, had a trailer. Season four, as we know, is coming out next summer. They did film three and four back-to-back, so it is in the can and ready to go. Coming out in summer, should come out in autumn.

1:04:32Boyd Hilton:Unbelievable. I'm very, very excited about that. So much so that we're recording a Silo spoiler special tomorrow without either of you. So that'll be fun. What else is happening? oh Boydie the Mad King is officially coming to London next year oh yes very excited about that oh my god should we go together 100 % I'm going to make sure we get press tickets they haven't they haven't said which theatre it's coming to no which is quite bizarre but yeah it was inevitable absolutely inevitable it has to have to because it's apparently brilliant it's brilliant I mean Boydie went he didn't invite either of us but it's fine he didn't have a plus one he did have a plus one I did ask him about it he didn't have a plus one you are the little finger of this podcast yeah in so many ways yeah oh that's really exciting.

1:05:11Boyd Hilton:Yeah, that's exciting. Did you see that Amelia de Moldenberg is hosting SNL UK? Yes, I did. That blows my mind. Why? Chicken Shop Girl? That's amazing. She's an absolute legend. Love her. I think it is interesting, though. Why is it interesting? Because she her background is YouTube, isn't it? Yeah, she's an influencer. Yes, but look, Chicken Shop's been going for what? So now Chicken Shop's over, right? So she said it's over. What was it going for? Well, there's another season coming. Seven years? Something ridiculous. This was not... I read something with her where people are like everyone thinks I was an overnight success but actually I put fucking groundwork in and did it for ages but it's definitely something it's definitely an interesting decision I know what you're saying it's not like she's just like posting about you know fashion stuff on YouTube whatnot not to minimise no which is absolutely fine but she I mean essentially it's just a different route to mainstream entertainment success isn't it she hasn't had her own show but she's come up through YouTube but she kind of has a similar profile to you know TV presenters and contrast it with other like Jeff Goldblum is hosting the first one, right?

1:06:09Then Jamie Dimitri says, and then it is a thing. It is an interesting contrast between... Yeah, but I think she's... I'm not saying she shouldn't do it, but... But I feel like she is, you know, she's very in with all the A-listers. People wanted to be interviewed by her. Oh, 100%. And so I think I'm good to her. She did the Oscars, didn't she? Exactly. So, you know... When you say did the Oscars, she... She was on the carpet. She was doing official... Yeah, but she was doing official stuff. No, that makes it sound like she was performing as the Oscars. She didn't host the Oscars, you know?

1:06:36Boyd Hilton:Like, she did the Oscars. Next year, maybe. Chicken shop dates with all of the Oscar nominees, as I recall. I'm fully behind her route. I'm fully behind her and I'm very excited. I think she'll be great. With your backing, she could go far. Yes. This is what she's been waiting for. Crucial question, which I don't know the answer to you. Which chicken shop does she have the dates in? Is it Nando's? Is it Chicken Shack? I need to know. It's an unspecified... You know, it's like a non... A generic chicken shop. A generic chicken shop. It's a non-franchised. It's a one-off. No, she's not. It's like a prop.

1:07:02Boyd Hilton:But is it... Do we know where it is? Could you go there? I'm pretty sure it's a set. It kind of started as a set. I think it started out as a real place. And then I think it's a set. This is like three old people trying to work out. But it's meant to be like any chicken shop. So it's like, you know, when I went out in Leeds, when I was younger, you'd go, should we go to the chicken shop? Even though I was a vegetarian, I still went. Are you a vegetarian in my boy? Go to the chicken shop, have some chicken. Yeah, have some chicken. I like some chicken. No, it's just, you know, that's what it's meant.

1:07:31It speaks to a generation of chicken shop people, I think. Yeah, it's a more local, you know. Yeah. Local unbranded chicken shop. Right. With like an animated chicken, you know, as the signage.

1:07:43Boyd Hilton:Okay. Yeah. Which is always weird, isn't it? Because then you'd go in and then you're going to eat the animated chicken. It's just, I don't know, it's a bit strange. You're saying you shouldn't make it cute before you serve it up. Yes, I am. Because if Fish Fingers had like Finding Nemo on, you wouldn't eat them, would you? Oh, it's like Phoebe Buffet said, no food with a face. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, if Dory and Nemo were on there, you'd be like, the kids would be like, no but you know it's just that old man have they been what they'd be like no but it's just that old man anyway that's the end of news do you remember when you told me that we've got a really tight record and I said I'm not going to talk too much yeah yeah you lied anyway right let's move on to our second guest this week and it is friend of the pod Sanjeeb Bhaskar who stars in The Split Up which is a spin-off as we've said of The Split and it sees a family of divorce lawyers in Manchester now Sanjeev or Sanj as Boyd calls him spoke to Boyd presumably to demand a personal apology for the scandalous treatment that you gave the Sandman did this come up in your interview did he mention it did he take you to task no he did not because when I spoke to Sanj he had a few choice words to say about you in your review of Sandman did he?

1:08:52Boyd Hilton:what did he say? oh I couldn't possibly tell you well I could because it was on the podcast encouraged by James I think he brought it up actually well he didn't bring it up this time really thankfully I don't think he's forgotten was he seething underneath? he was absolutely not seething I think he was seething about Arsenal but I think we talked about Arsenal before we started the recording you'd be pleased to know because I thank god for that yeah yeah he's a Liverpool fan he said he must be delighted as an Arsenal fan I was like yes I am yeah anyway this is Boydie and Sanj Sanjeev Basco welcome to the Pilot TV podcast how are you doing I'm doing very well thank you thank you very much it's lovely to be on again absolutely um now where are you talking speaking to a song because I can see a guitar in the background yes this is a little studio a little home studio we have in our garden and so it's usually my son that is kind of occupies this space so i'm kind of he's sublet it to me for the duration of these conversations so yeah he's he's a singer songwriter and he's studying that so so yeah i mean i can strum a guitar yes i'm like a strong couple of elvis songs obviously yeah yeah and then it's best that i stop um we'll get to that maybe could do us a little have a student later um but in the meantime we're talking about um the split up now it strikes me uh i've watched you know many episodes and this must be one of the juiciest roles of your career right he's such an interesting character and um at first you think oh he's going to be like a nice patriarchal figure kind of benevolent guy dealing with the death of his wife but then as as the that's the as we see more and more of him he's quite horrible when he needs to be is that fair i mean is he horrible i don't know i mean you know he obviously you know um that's it michael caine who said that you know every villain is the hero of his own story and so i don't think there's anything he does that he doesn't feel is justified in some way um and he feels that he as as a patriarch of the family as the head of this law firm that he has you know a wider viewpoint about everything he can see a bigger picture where whereas you know the others can't and particularly his children but to go back to the comment you made at the beginning yeah i mean i i've never played a character quite like this.

1:11:11Boyd Hilton:And so it was really interesting actually on the page to kind of see how complex he was in terms of the way he was with family, in terms of personal relationships and with his work. And it is a gift for an actor to try to mine as many things as you can. You want to go as deeply as you can but uh yeah very rarely have i had the opportunity to go as broadly deeply uh as i have on this one and how did the project come to you is that because you know did did abby morgan obviously producer she created the original the split did she she did you you know was it how did it happen uh yeah i mean she i don't know i think i mean she she's uh execing this uh series And Ursula Rani-Sama has been writing it and had shaped it.

1:12:08Boyd Hilton:So I did. It's one of those rare occasions where I got a call saying, would you be interested in this as opposed to would you audition for it? Having said that, I would have happily auditioned for this. So, yeah, that was that was lovely to be already thought of for the part. um and then when i read the scripts and had conversations with them about tone and and the direction of it uh i was kind of on board it's an interesting i couldn't think of an example of a of a similar situation where the original show that abby created has been kind of recreated with in a whole different setting with a different cast do you know what i mean it's quite an unusual thing and it feels like an absolutely brilliant idea once you start watching it oh yeah okay this is really working but it's an interesting concept isn't it you're right i mean i'm trying to think of anything else that i mean possibly true detective yeah in the first couple of series they kind of kept that sort of format and had recreated it but yeah but it it's rare i mean i can't think of any other and you know you and i are both kind of tv addicts and if we can't think of it then exactly let's hope it doesn't come up in a pub quiz question when we're on the same team and somebody else will kind of answer it.

1:13:26Boyd Hilton:But, yeah, yeah, I think that certainly, obviously, Mira, my missus, was in the first series of the split. Yes. And it also had Nicola Walker, who I'd obviously worked with quite closely. Yes, yeah, paths have crossed. So I was kind of, you know, very aware of that as it was being made, not plot points, but in terms of the tone of the piece. So certainly when this came along, the fact that it's tonally in the same world, but that's about it, I thought was really interesting and kind of quite a bold choice in many ways to do that. And certainly something tonally, again, I think that Ursula, as the main writer and driver of this sort of picked up on.

1:14:24Boyd Hilton:So, yeah, again, you know, outside of it being a part that I've not really played before, I don't think I've been in this kind of series before. So, yeah, those two big tick points for me and my happiness. And the happiness of the viewer, I can assure you as well. Oh, well, that's good to know. It is exciting to see. I noticed also in the credits, you're an and. any listener of the uh como de mayo podcast will know that when you're an and in a castle that denotes a specific weightiness it did i mean i did go for the the mark strong initiated but yes um but they didn't go with that so i'd settle with the and yes i've got an and on this one i don't know what that means really for me it means oh my god look sanjeev is in this really good show and he's you know absolute legend and he's yeah well it could i mean but to other people it could be oh by the way yeah i forgot to tell you right right yeah we didn't deign to mention that he's also in it yeah um he's to talk about his character a bit more he surprises us doesn't he i think like you might you think i keep kept thinking oh he's a traditional guy maybe for example he might have a problem with his son being gay but no he embraces that fully doesn't he and yet he's quite harsh to his daughter who is clearly she's hoping to basically that it's a succession story isn't it she's hoping to yeah take over from him so he he's difficult to pin down in that sense did that make it particularly interesting for you yeah that that does make him interesting because the thing is that and that felt quite real as well that you know that he wasn't painted with a very broad brush in terms of being a traditionalist or whatever in some ways he's quite modern and But that makes him difficult to read.

1:16:11Boyd Hilton:And I think that and also difficult to place, which, again, for an actor is kind of is an interesting place to be because it means that you yourself have choices in the playing of it. And so it's not as obvious as, well, I'm an evil person, so I'll play him charming, like a Christoph Waltz-esque approach. Or he's basically a really decent guy, but he's a bit troubled. And those can be quite broad brushes to paint with. With this, I thought that complexity, apart from making him real, obviously just made it very interesting because, as I said, in the moment when you're doing the scenes, you can play those in 20 or 30 different ways.

1:17:01Boyd Hilton:You can just lean into one of those emotions. And hopefully also that's what makes him feel rooted as a real character and not a kind of melodramatic construct, which I think, again, with this kind of thing, it's very easy to become that if you play that. So hopefully we've kind of avoided those potholes. Did you explore the world of these kind of divorce legal firms that specialize in that kind of thing? Was it just all on the page for what you did? I mean, it was pretty much all on the page. I mean, you know, obviously we have friends who are lawyers and friends who've done family law, who kind of rather ominously said, we'll be watching this.

1:17:43Boyd Hilton:You go, okay, thanks. That feels a little daunting. But no, I mean, in a way, I think much like the split, You know, it's really a family dynamics drama and, you know, framed within a legal world. So, you know, the legality of it isn't the primary thing. I think in the same way, you know, Unforgotten, I don't think is primarily a whodunit. You know, it's a drama about, you know, how people cope with keeping a secret and that secret being uncovered. but within the framework of a detective show. So I think it's similar to that in a way. And also I think everyone can relate to families. Not everyone can relate to lawyers.

1:18:37Boyd Hilton:And so I think that's going back to, if I self-reference a little bit, I think that's the reason why the Kumars traveled so well around the world was because people understood it was a family. And so I remember there was a review I got from some newspaper in Phoenix in Arizona. And they kind of said, we don't understand anything about these guests. I think if I remember correctly, I may be paraphrasing, but I think they said, we don't know what is an Eamon Holmes. So they'd seen that. But they said, we understand a family. We understand a spoiled kid. So I think similarly with this, people will kind of go, yeah, your kids can be tricky or, yeah, your parents can hold secrets.

1:19:30Boyd Hilton:And what will that be like? And so in that sense, I think hopefully it's inclusive in that way. Yeah. Everyone has secrets, don't they, in the show pretty much as well. There's a lot of infidelity going on, without spoiling anything. Isn't that the case with Britain? Well, I was going to say, it feels particularly, it does feel particularly real. in that sense that everyone's at it. Yeah. I mean, that's obviously complete fiction for me. I've got nothing to draw on for that. That's just imagination and having watched lots of other stuff. But, yeah, I think that – but also I think, you know, the fundamental, you know, balancing act of duty versus desire, I think, is perennial.

1:20:19Boyd Hilton:You know, it's kind of, this is what I should do. This is what I really want to do. And even, you know, the question about what should I do? What is the right thing to do? And should I do this? I think are things that, you know, everybody wrestles with. Completely, yeah. There's a different legal case every episode, like the original, the split. And I really very much enjoyed in the first episode, Lenny Henry. Now there's a scene with you and Lenny Henry together shot kind of like side by side. For me, it's like the De Niro Pacino scene in Heat. Two British comedy legends facing off against each other.

1:20:54How was that scene to film?

1:20:56Boyd Hilton:Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, I think that the scene was longer, and there was a point at which Lenny started to make jokes, which I then had to respond to. And that's on the proverbial cutting room floor somewhere. So, yeah, I wish we'd had more scenes. And it was great. I suddenly realized that, I mean, I've known Lenny, or we've known each other on and off for about 20, 25 years. But this was the first time we'd ever shared the screen together. And how ironic that we're sharing it in a drama. Yes. But, yeah, it was great. And I think he's really good in it as well. I mean, I was really impressed with what I saw.

1:21:42Boyd Hilton:And I think he's been pleased with it as well. I think I met him at, well, Mira's got a memoir out. So he was at the book launch. And we were talking about, you know, the split up then and how we both thought it was pretty good. And it's always very difficult to be totally objective. I mean, certainly for me about anything I'm in, but as objectively as I can be, I do think it's pretty good. And I think he's really good. Yeah, you're both very good. Well, thank you. Your other show, I'm forgotten, it's season seven. series seven it is yeah extraordinary um uh is there anything you can tell us and about about the new series or the contents of sunny's backpack i mean sunny's backpack contents will be revealed as the episodes go out in a traditional manner um what can i tell you about it i mean it's you know but i tell you chris lane knows how to write a script i mean this is it's kind of probably one of the more emotionally brutal series, I think, of the ones that we've done.

1:22:47Boyd Hilton:I mean, they all are to an extent, but this one had that extra thing. I think the body that we find that leads us to the rest of the story is on the younger side. And so I think that maybe shapes it in that way. But again, you know, brilliant actors who came in to play the suspects. and yeah just fantastic writing again i think i mean the writing is brilliant i mean it's apart from chris lang having written seven series um the other thing that's really unusual is that we've got we've had the same director andy wilson on every single series you know in in a world where you have kind of first block second block directors to have one director over those seven series is again a continuity that that i think helps maintain that tone um finally i was very excited to see you on taskmaster last year um big fans we're all big fans of taskmaster on the show um what was the uh most difficult moment for you in the in that taskmaster i mean it's i i mean i really did have a good time and you know people who make it are really wonderful warm people and I really loved the cast that I was with.

1:24:06Boyd Hilton:And it was kind of about a couple of days in, actually. I think maybe it was a second group task we did where I had a personal deep revelation mid-task, which was I was getting annoyed at Phil Ellis for kind of like just cocking things up and just trying to be funny. and I could feel myself kind of getting hotter and thinking, bloody idiot, we're not going to win this if you kind of – and I caught myself. And then I thought, what am I thinking? This is ridiculous. He wants to be funny because he is funny. Yes. And I remember I switched in my head from that to thank God Phil Ellis is here to remind me of where I can go if I'm not, you know, if I don't self-monitor.

1:24:57Boyd Hilton:so um they were all of them um anna magliano and maizey adam and reese i mean again reese you know i've known on and off for years and huge admirer it was great in retrospect i wish i'd won at least one episode um there was this notion going out that kind of that i didn't care um And to clarify, I didn't care whether I won or not. I cared very much about having a good time. And I cared very much about the others. Which is the main thing, yeah. For me, it was. I mean, there are people on there that we've all seen who have a competitive streak that you wouldn't want to be within a mile of. Absolutely.

1:25:41Boyd Hilton:But no, I really enjoyed it. And what a sort of pleasure and an honour to be asked. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Congratulations on the split up. it's fantastic and thank you see you soon cheers yeah thank you cheers let's move on to this week's reviews and first up this week we have American Hostage on MGM Plus and this is adapted from the 2022 scripted audio drama series of the same name based on a true story and that scripted audio drama also starred Jon Hamm as Fred Heckman the 70s radio reporter who's kind of called one day by Giovanni Ribisi's Tony Caritsis after he basically snaps and takes a mortgage lender hostage at the end of a shotgun, only to arrange a live on-air interview as the hostage incident is kind of mid-flow.

1:26:26Boyd Hilton:So, Steph, you took Patrick Bramwell hostage very recently, so you're uniquely qualified to talk about this show. Yeah, right. This is a funny one. I just want to put it out there, I'm a massive Jon Hamm fan. I really like Jon Hamm, which I know you are because you love friends and neighbours. Right, so this starts very... This first episode is very much a set-up episode. Find out who everyone is, find out, you know, how the kind of station works with Jon Hamm. It starts with a lot of typewriter noise, which I really enjoyed. It sounds like a small thing, but the music in the background is nice.

1:27:06So you're introduced to Jon Hamm. He's this newsreader in his office of people around him, and they're kind of sort of struggling with finances in a way, and he gets this call from this guy that they decide to put on air and they're going to say, and he's like, I want an interview, I've got this guy, I'm going to kill him. Don't want to give too much away because, you know, you'll want to watch it. I just, I think for me, while Jon Hamm is brilliant, I just kept seeing Mad Men and I found that quite hard because it's sort of the same era and that was slightly distracting for me. Everyone in it is great.

1:27:45It's funny. Giovanni Ribisi, I love him as an actor. But it really did not capture me at all. I just, right, I'm just going to say, I only watched one episode. So no doubt if either of you have watched a second episode, you might be able to tell me. It really ramps up in the second episode. But I thought it was incredibly long to get to the basic point that this guy was holding, Giovanni Ribisi was holding him hostage and he just wanted to be on air. There was like, you know, sort of three points made in that first episode and it did not feel propulsive. I wasn't worried about this person in danger.

1:28:24It just felt very kind of, the whole thing felt really muted to me. I hold my hands up and like I said, I've only watched one episode so I'm ready to be proven wrong but it did not make me want to watch the second episode at all. Although, like the style of it was very nice. it was visually pleasing to watch but I just was like I was a little bit bored I'm sorry it was boring oh thank god when I carry on and then I've got like verbal diarrhea and I'm looking at you and I'm like oh god what are they going to say it's just if they'd have lavished as much attention on making it interesting as they have on the sets and the beautiful attention to detail of 1977 Indianapolis I think it is then fine oh my god it's so drawn out I'm so happy you said that it's so slow and it's not that interesting because we've got I draw up your attention to the film Dog Day Afternoon yes in 1975 with Al Pacino it's a very similar story and he was a back role gone wrong that hostages were held and it was broadcast on the news I just don't give a shit if they shoot the mortgage guard because the mortgage guard seems like a dick it is it is and it's just you don't care and it's it's weird because it's adapted from so the original podcast that Jon Hamm was involved with was scripted but told this true story this is a true story now you've got an adaptation of a scripted thing and I think that's possibly why it feels inert because I think in a podcast you can do all kinds of things you can create an atmosphere an audio atmosphere which is different but when you're when it's all playing out in front of your eyes in quite a slow, deliberately paced way.

1:30:14It just doesn't capture your imagination or interest whatsoever. It's really odd how boring it is. And can I just say, I watched the first episode and I thought, I dread to know how many episodes this is. I looked it up. Do you know how many episodes it are? Oh, God. Eight. No! No. More. Eight hours of this. Eight hours of this shit. No. This show is my new example of what's gone wrong with streaming because if they are commissioning eight hours of this someone has fucked up this is a four episode show do you know what's so annoying it's got such a good title like I love the title American Hostage that makes it seem like it's exciting and then it's like it should be just called American Blur American Blur yeah it's oh my but that was the final nail in the coffin for me like someone somewhere has decided this it takes eight hours to tell this story didn't you think the first episode was so long yes but it's not actually

1:31:09Boyd Hilton:that long it's just boring If it's any consolation, the actual interview or the ordeal lasted something like 62 hours, so it could have been a lot worse. I know. If it'd be in real time. It feels like it's playing out in real time. Yeah, it just hasn't worked. I'm sorry. And obviously, everyone involved is brilliant. Giovanne Rubisi's career going into him playing mad, eccentric, weird-looking people is a real... because he was like a hot young guy back in the day. He's always played eccentric weirdos. Off-kilter, always paid off-kilter people, actually. Yeah, eccentrics, but I don't know. Even this, like, you could definitely believe that this was Phoebe's brother from Friends.

1:31:46Boyd Hilton:Yeah, he was off-kilter brother in Friends. And that character would need almost no adjustments other than shotgun. Yeah. Frank Jr. Yeah. Oh, God. I'm so glad you said that, though, because... Yeah, it is boring. It's a shame, because Jon Hamm is just, you know, he's so charismatic and he's very, very watchable, but it's just really slow and really boring. and exactly as you said I couldn't care less what happens to the hostage because he's a dick in fact just kill him and then make it two episodes make the whole thing stop I mean it's not like it's badly like as you say it's brilliantly produced the sets are amazing like the production design is on point the performances are good as well although Giovanni Ribisi's performance again it's not like it's a bit annoying it's a bit caricature because he is essentially being Frank Jr.

1:32:31Boyd Hilton:from Friends but with a shotgun like it's a little bit it's a little bit of a silly performance and look maybe that's accurate I've not listened to the original broadcast I don't know how the interview went maybe that's exactly how it sounded I don't know but I got to the point where I said you're quite annoying your hostage is a dick so I'm not really invested in the outcome at all so yeah I tapped out after the first episode I'm really happy do you know what's going to happen now it's going to become the new big hit everyone's going to be like this is incredible I can't see it though it is really dark There is no world in which I dedicate eight hours to this.

1:33:07Boyd Hilton:I'm so sorry. Eight hours is such a long time. Yeah, I'm not doing it. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. Anyway, American Hostage, which is on MGM+. When, Boydie? Sunday, I think. Yes, Sunday the 20th of September. Sunday the 20th of September. Watch it at your peril. Right, next up, however, we have a slight change of pace as we have the triumphant return of Slow Horses to Apple TV+. Hooray! And this is Jackson Lamb and his team of rejects and misfits return. For another case, this was one involving Russian assassins. This is based on two books, in fact. This is based on the sixth installment in the Mick Herron Slough House series called Joe Country, and the seventh book, which is just called Slough House.

1:33:52Boyd Hilton:So it incorporates aspects of both of those books. And, yeah. Boyd, you saw this a while ago. Do you actually remember it? No? Can't remember anything. Okay, Boyd doesn't remember anything. Tell us what you recall. I recall that the main thing I think is that this is kind of almost going back to the original show and literally bringing back some characters that we know and love so particularly Olivia Cook is back which is something they have released ahead of time I'm not sure I would have done but I guess it is in the book so yeah she's arrived pretty early on in the first episode she does yeah she's not in the first episode she's quite early on in the series no it's not the first episode she's definitely not in the first episode because I watched the first episode last night it might not even be the second one either oh god so perhaps should we mention Olivia Kirk I know they have released it I mean I'm excited now you said she's in it because I've only watched the first episode and I think we've even talked about the fact that she's in it on this podcast so I guess I guess we can yeah she is in it thank you don't blame me listeners yeah blame Apple they decided to release this yeah so she plays Sid who was shot in the head back in series one yep and she's kind of got a flirty thing going on with Jack Loudon's character River by the way Apparently Jack Lowney is literally going to be the new James Bond.

1:35:04Boyd Hilton:No, but this is just because Gary Oldman gave an interview. He said, well, you know, they've already picked it. They just haven't announced it. Although, if you read the actual interview, he kind of does and doesn't say that. It's not 100 % clear. But what I would say is, you're right. Reading it and reading what he said and the whole tone of it, you think if it's not going to be him, then that's a bit weird to enter into this whole discussion. Like, if he knows who it is, anyway. Well, look, here's the thing. they've already shot slow horses series 7 that is in the bag but I'm saying if he gets cast as Bond he's not going to be able to do any more slow horses that is the end of this show no but that can fit in 8 before he I'm not even fucking announced I'm not sure how many books McGarran's written but it does mean there will then be no chance to continue just a bit ahead isn't it they're probably nearly caught up but they wouldn't be able to do any more because he would 100 % have an exclusivity thing with regard to playing like British Secret Service agents alright so I think they'd fit an 8th season into his schedule and then start shooting.

1:35:59And then that'll be it. Yeah, that'll be it. But the show can carry on. Do you think he'll be good? The show cannot carry on without River. What are you talking about? Of course it can. I don't think. It can, 100%. No, I disagree. It can. Anyway. Okay, carry on, carry on. Is it a spoiler about his dad? Is that a spoiler? I don't think it's a spoiler because it happens in the first 10 minutes. So also back is Hugo Weaving as his psychotic professional assassin dad. Yeah. And the other big guest star is Lenny Rush from Am I Being Unreasonable fame who is a witness to a murder, is all I'd say. But he gets embroiled in.

1:36:31Basically, they're all told, Jackson Lamb realises that all his Joes, all of his mates themselves, are being targeted by assassins. And he tells them to scatter and go away and kind of, you know, go into the ether. And it's kind of like a cat and mouse game whereby various assassins are stalking the Joes, the slow horse people. It's all happening because of something that Diana Tavener, Kristen Scott Thomas, the legendary, brilliant Kristen Scott Thomas, who is now first desk. She is in charge. She's first desk now. She's making it known. But apparently she has done something that has basically led to all of the people having to scatter and being targeted by a mysterious assassin.

1:37:14So it seems to be her fault. That's certainly what Jackson thinks early on. Whether it is or not, we'll find out. But bottom line is, all of the greatness of the show is present and correct in this series for me. Because you get loads of Diane. I love the conversations between her and Jack. Oh, they're the best. And River and everyone. And all of the great characters have their moments, which is one of the brilliant things about it. Because we all get to figure out who they are and what their kind of alliance is and what they're running from and why they're being targeted, et cetera. It's just, and there's a farting competition in the car.

1:37:51Have you got to that seat? No. it's brilliant they really they really ratchet up the that element of his character the drinking and smoking and breaking wind and swearing it's all present and correct everyone's it's one of those things where everyone's having a brilliant time you can tell but we're having a brilliant time as well and that is a rare feat and I absolutely loved it I devoured it in in one day I think same many months ago oh god yeah of course

1:38:19Boyd Hilton:it's not possible to turn it off once you start Stephanie Sealand Well, I watched it at midnight last night because I only got the screeners and I only had time to watch one of them. But yes, oh my God. Because Apple thinks you're our PA. Yeah, because I'm your PA. Oh God, I just love seeing Jackson Lamb again. I'm so happy to be back with him. He's just incredible in this role. Obviously, this has been said a million times, this just feels like the role he was made for, doesn't it? And you're right, all of his interactions with Diana are hilarious. and just his natural comedic talent in this role is a joy to watch and I was so happy obviously River has had the recent death of his granddad which is as we know is not a spoiler and so that's kind of the beginning of it and so there's even more of an edge because he's already fucked off that he didn't go back to the park so he's already annoyed about that so he's already furious with Jackson but yeah he's got even more of an edge and obviously he's upset about the dad thing and all of that but he's got even more of an edge and he's actually given real serious James Bond vibes.

1:39:20In the first episode, there is a little bit where he's hanging onto a car and it's very James Bond-y. It's very, very good. I cannot, I mean, I always, when I look at Jack Loudon, I just always see a version of Simon Pegg. Do you know what I mean? I just always, I'm like, are you the twins somewhere in another multiverse of Simon Pegg?

1:39:40Boyd Hilton:It's like a slightly sexier Simon Pegg. I mean, because they don't look alike. They don't not look alike, though. Anyway. No. I'm going to get two pictures of them and I'm going to show you they're going to be standing in a line they're going to be very exciting they're going to be standing in a line in their outfits but I think what you've hit the nail on is that I think the reason he may well be the new James Bond and the reason that obviously even if he isn't they've been very very interested in him is he has got that little twinkle in his eye and that edge to him and that comedic that little comedic touch he brings he's funny all the way through and I think James Bond has to be funny I mean you know Daniel Craig who I still think is the best James Bond people thought he was too serious but actually if you go back and watch those films as I do he can do funny as well that wry thing yeah he gets wry humour that's the key wry humour yeah so it's a joy to watch him in the show and it'll be fascinating to watch him as James Bond if indeed that happens I mean having obviously having watched My Brilliant Career which I think everyone should watch which does star Christopher Tung who is I mean he's amazing in My Brilliant Career but yeah back as Roddy oh god I just I love being back with them every word that comes out of Roddy's mouth is pure it's genius it's absolutely it's fantastic yeah I have no notes for it it's just if you love slow horses you're going to love it I love the premise of this that they're trying to you know get to all the slow horses and the whole initial thing where Jackson's like yeah leave a shit because something has happened where none of them have been paid and even just that whole set up is really hilarious it's just brilliant but obviously he does care and yeah He cares so much, doesn't he?

1:41:17That's the thing about it. He really cares. And kind of hiding the extent to which he cares. He's the genius of the show. The genius of the show, yeah. And he's also unbelievably brilliant at working out what's going on. He is a genius.

1:41:33Boyd Hilton:Amy Fionn Edwards also, I think, is very regularly the MVP of episodes. She's so funny. It's just so well cast, and it is so watchable. And whenever this is on, it is the best show on television it just is like it is so it's such a delight and I must admit we're very privileged that we do get to watch them early and we get to watch them in one go but being able to watch all of them back to back was a singular delight for me obviously everyone has to watch it week by week but you know what that's a good thing spread it out savour it relish it I mean I'll be watching them week by week guys so you know don't worry we'll be together I will be because I haven't got them on my screeners I thought they'd just given you the screener only for episode one yeah I just got episode one no you have to I mean, you have to get the rest.

1:42:14No, I want to be with the people. I like being with the people. Kay's with the people.

1:42:18Boyd Hilton:Kay's with the people. And so you're... I'm Steph. It's Steph. It's Steph. Steph. Steph. Yeah. Steph. My God. Steph Ribeiro. Okay, great. I even love the theme tune. I think the Mick Jagger... Oh, the theme tune's so good. I don't know where you go, I even love the... It's an iconic... It is iconic. I mean, it's no late, great Shirley Bassey, obviously. But, you know... Shut up. Mick Jagger was at Arsenal the other night, by the way. Oh, my God. my friend sat next to him wow just saying do you know you know there's a scene in the first episode where he's he's eating pasta and having a wine yes and he just I don't know everything about him everything about him his eating is just superhuman because remember they have to reshoot those they have to shoot all those scenes multiple times he has to be he's constantly eating and he has to eat loads and loads I think back in I think we had a couple of times on the show and one time we talked all about how how challenging his eating is well he's carb loads a lot yeah he's eating something in almost every scene that he's in and he deserves all the awards just for that.

1:43:15All the awards.

1:43:17Boyd Hilton:Okay, so The Return to Slough House, Slow Horses Series 6, which lands on Apple TV when, Boydie? It is on Wednesday, the 16th of September, 2026. Finally, this week, we have Crew Girl on the Netflix and this is making an attempt to claim the YA crown this year, which I have to be said, that's a bold move in a year that's brought us off campus and Sterling Point. But anyway, this one sees a girl transplanted to a posh East Coast school and attempts to make waves, so to speak, on the school rowing team. See what I did there. So, a bit of nautical humour. This was apparently pitched, this is true, at Netflix as Gossip Girl meets Friday Night Lights on a boat.

1:44:00Boyd Hilton:Brilliant. So, Steph and or Kay, does Netflix have a chance of stealing the YA thunder? Tell us. No. No, it doesn't. Right. Okay. I've, again, I've only watched one because I've been doing a lot of other watching, okay? So I'm also going to say that I feel... This is around you. Normally you devour like eight episodes in half an hour. But I've done like six episodes of Last Seen, six episodes of Colin. That's a lot. You had to re-watch the entire output of... Yeah, it was a lot to watch. Patrick. So I had every intention of watching another one of these because I feel like it's definitely going to get better.

1:44:37But I ran out of time because I had to watch Slow Horses at midnight. Right. But, okay, so look, does it have the sheen and the script and the performances of Off Campus or Stirling Point, which I'm also watching, which is excellent? No, it does not. Does it have the potential to get that audience to watch it? Yes, it does. It's just not as good. It's just not as good, okay? That said, it could get better. So the reason it's just not as good, okay, so there's obviously the requisite meet-cute. The meet-cute where Tegan really should sustain a head injury because she drives her bike into the side, and I should know, side of the van, and she just kind of does like an acrobatic somersault.

1:45:27Even that is not quite as it should be, right? There's just little details like that. I don't know whether I'm being hypercritical, but the dialogue is not there for me in this one. It's just not, it feels unsubtle. It feels kind of emotionally vacant. Emotionally vacant? Yeah, well, even when they're, it just doesn't feel, it feels disingenuous. Like, even when, you know, you get the bits where the crew guys, they're taking off their shirts. I didn't get as much enjoyment out of it as I wanted. You know, it feels like it's plonked in a place where it shouldn't be. but does it seem to have the potential to have that addictive quality yes it does um i think yeah it's just a bit more you know it's a bit more like i know you guys don't watch this kind of stuff we're not forced to watch it like you know disney like pre-teen the dialogue of disney pre-teen stuff right so you know all of that kind of you know the stuff that ariana grande used to be in and all that kind of stuff it the dialogue feels a little bit more like that than it does sophisticated and I know you talked James about Stirling Point and how what's great about it is that it feels authentic because it feels like that's how these people speak to each other at this age to me it's a bit stunted like that it's it's got Jessica Parr from do you remember she was in Mad Men um I can't remember the character and I don't know whether I've taken against it because she's 45 in this and she's got a 21 year old and I just it's just like she's the mom and I don't know, like, it just doesn't quite hit.

1:46:58It feels slightly too contrived. But that said, I think it could ramp up because at the end, what happens at the end of the first episode makes it more exciting and it feels like it's going to hit its stride a little bit. But just based on the first episode, I think people will agree with me that it hasn't got the Sterling Point off campus. First episode, oh my God, I've got to watch the next one. I've got to find out. I've got to find out. it's just got the oh it'll be interesting to find out what happens to this girl you're right it's better than a lot of them no it is think about how many it's been a lot I'm not publishing it at all I'm just saying when we're in in the sea of YA at the moment that we're in and it's exceptional YA this is not exceptional that's what I'm saying no but I think it's I think it's high I think it's better than average it is that's what I would say and I think a lot of that is down to her Miku Martino she is brilliant she is stunning right she's so good and you kind of believe, even though it's glossy, it's not subtle, it's kind of the way it uses class conflict and the boys not wanting to have a girl coxing them and all of that.

1:48:08I believe in her as an athlete who wants to be on a rowing team. I definitely do. She's so good, I think, that she convinces in a tough role to sell. But she's great and she has a kind of, she has a witch to her as well. I think the script's kind of better than I thought it would be so it's not it's not kitsch nonsense no it's better than that but it doesn't either reach totally it doesn't reach off campus or what's the other one starting point it doesn't and one of the things about it it's not it's very it's teen oriented so it's 12 certificate on the Netflix system right it's not a 15 or an 80 it's like it's not elite which is the Spanish one teen geometry which was rampant you know sexism swearing and nudity it kind of errs on the side of caution and all of that and you think, you know, it's...

1:48:54This is kind of stolen looks, isn't it? Rather than, like, you know, getting your dick out and all that kind of stuff. Right. Off campus, it was raunchy. Yes, you're right. Maybe it's an unfair comparison. I just think, from what we've seen lately, it's been so good. It's hard to watch something like this and not draw those comparisons. I think this is fun and frothy and entertaining and she's so good that I think it elevates it a little bit. and there's kind of an interesting her mum's done dubious stuff and how do you deal with that that's an interesting plot so I think it's decent that's what I'm saying I reckon if I go and watch episode I'm going to go back and watch episode 2 I'll be like oh no this is really good oh no I don't think that's going to happen I think it's decent enough to carry on watching yeah just about

1:49:41Boyd Hilton:it's tropey as fuck in a way that we've come to accept this I think from team shows sometimes where you have the instant mean girls and the jocks who are stupid. The caricatures were overplayed. So overplayed. Yeah, they were. Even the, you know, oh, she meets the boy who's on like, you know, financial aid and whatnot. It's just, it's, I say, oh my God, I've seen these characters so many times. But that's when it comes a little bit like, what I mean about the, like Disney pre-teen stuff, it's a bit like, they are just so out there, those characters, and it doesn't, it doesn't help with authenticity.

1:50:14No. And it doesn't have to be authentic because as you say, it's a 12 plus, maybe it's not as

1:50:17Boyd Hilton:it skews younger certainly and bear in mind this is high school off campus is like a college thing so it is a different demographic even like starting point is a higher end like she's 17 right slightly older I don't quite how old these kids are to be honest because you can never tell because they're always played by people in their 40s but she's 21 in real life of course she is but like so on the one hand this is like bog standard teen for yes she goes to an exclusive school and they're all bratty and it's like oh Christ but I will say the rowing thing does give it something different. It gives something, yeah.

1:50:48Boyd Hilton:And I was quite interested in it. And look, I mean, I quite enjoyed it. Like, I'm not sure if I will watch more, but I could watch more. I'm not against watching more. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm not even saying I won't watch more. I actually might do. But there is a part of me that if I had not already seen Standing Point and Off Campus this year, I probably would have enjoyed this more than I did. But it felt regressive in comparison to those. So I think Prime still absolutely own the YA space at the moment. That said, I'm glad this exists. and I think if you are a teenager you might enjoy it but for me it doesn't have the authenticity in that it doesn't feel like a show that has been created by people of this age group it feels very much like a show written by middle aged people oh this is how Gen Z is taught there's an element of that to it but I still think people will enjoy it to an extent yes I like the fact that their names are things like Cam Dillinger and Ryder Regis Ryder Regis Ryder Regis but yeah I mean it's I didn't like I'll tell you what I didn't like the you know there's some there's a mean real mean girls bit in the first episode which I thought was excruciatingly mean there's a real kind of like high school mean girls bit which I didn't like but did either of you watch right I was talking of rowing teams right there was this great Ian Somerhalder was in this great rowing thing in the early noughties I think it was called the WB and that was absolutely brilliant.

1:52:14Wasn't the WB a network? Yes. Was the name of the Warner Brothers Network? No, it was. It was called something Ian Somerhalder rowing team drama. It was really, really good. Really? I don't remember that. I'm going to find out what it is.

1:52:25Boyd Hilton:Well, if only we had time to look into this further. Sorry, it was really good. What else is happening? Monster Lizzie Borden story starts on Thursday. And this is, is this indeed a Ryan joint? It's a Ryan Murphy joint. Is he actually involved in this one? No, it's a bit similar to the Jeffrey Dahmer and the other one Ed Gein he's not so involved but his mate Ian Brennan is co-created Neely is on Prime Neely is on Prime on Wednesday yes we'll cover that on Pilot Plus we will Mobland arrives on Friday on Paramount Plus which is exciting if you are one of the three people still watching the Walking Dead series then the Walking Dead Dead City Season 3 good God comes to Sky One also on that's on Friday Outlander Blood of My Blood returns to MGM Plus on Saturday.

1:53:15Boyd Hilton:That was actually pretty good, Outlander Blood of My Blood. Yeah, it was. I meant to press on with that, and I haven't, but maybe I'll go back to that. What else is happening? The split up, as we've already discussed, that's on Sunday on BBC One. Yes, there's a thing called... The Blame? The Blame, yes. On ITV? Yes. Also Sunday. Also Sunday, which looks really good. And there's Forever Home on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday on Channel 5. This is Channel 5's, just 5's new drama, which is adapted from a Graham Norton novel. Oh, interesting. And I've seen the first episode and it's decent. It's interesting.

1:53:47Boyd Hilton:Stranger Things Tales from 85 has a second season already. And it's, yeah, apparently that's landing this week on Netflix on Thursday as well. I mean, it feels like the first season was only the other day. But there you go. Okay, I'm just going to say it was on the WB, the channel, and it was called Young Americans and it was excellent. So the show was not in fact called the WB. No, it must be in my head because it was like WB. Yeah, anyway, it's called Young Americans. It's really good. in some order. It was cancelled. It was a spin-off of Dawson's Creek. It was very good. Was it? An actual spin-off of Dawson's Creek?

1:54:15Now you're interested. I am now interested. How was it spun off? I'm not sure, but it was. And it was about rowing. It was about rowing and there was a girl and it was pretending to be a boy to get on the rowing team. It was good. Did you dream of this show? Is it real? 100 % not. If you, like me, watch Young Americans, please write in. It was excellent. Well, Creatures Grand Small also back on Thursday. Oh, thank God you dropped that one. I know. it's cover cover of Total TV Guide of course it is it's the cover what is our pick of the week? oh slow horses

1:54:42Boyd Hilton:I mean it has to be slow horses it is indeed slow horses okay right that is it for this week's show we hope you enjoyed it if you haven't left us a review by this point I don't know what you've been doing we've been doing this podcast for about eight years but nevertheless please do leave us a five star rating and if you want to follow us we are at Boyd Hilton at Steph Seedle at James Dyer and at Pilot TV Pod next week what have we got next week we will have Pierce Brosnan and Helen Mirren on the podcast and if she's calling anyone a C-bomb it unfortunately won't be Boyd but that's very exciting what else will we have we will be covering possibly some of the things that were embargoed this week but also out next week Youth which is the new Sharon Horgan show comes to HBO I'm interviewing Sharon on Friday oh are you really interesting that's not on the calendar that's not on the calendar I've just had it confirmed right that's going to the week after right a bit of a live admin on the podcast excellent what else is happening we have got Brothers on Apple which is the Matthew Conaghy Woody Harrelson show I'm so excited about that oh well please let's do that Boston Blue is a spin off of the I'm in yeah Blue Bloods that's arriving we won't be watching that Different World comes to Netflix American Horror Story season 13 comes to Disney Plus do you know how many episodes there are probably 100 ,000 no 13 episodes really yes how about that Steph's I'll watch all of them so yeah lots going on how are you getting on with Mare of Kingstown.

1:56:05Boyd Hilton:Yeah, that's definitely something I need to watch. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, that is it for this week's podcast. We will see you on Pilot Plus on Thursday for Knee Glee. Knee Glee. Glee. Knee Glee. Knee Glee. Yeah, with a hard G. Pilot's out.