Chad Powers, Frauds, and How Are You? It’s Alan (Partridge). With Guests Jessica Chastain & Nnamdi Asomugha and Tom Blyth

3:26Nnamdi Asomugha:Skin covered, some sort of skin covered ice cream balls. Mochi balls. Is that what they're called? Mochi. I think so. Is that the right pronunciation? I don't know. Okay, well.

3:34Tom Blyth:We'll say yes. Okay. What have you been watching, Steph?

3:36Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, I've been watching, oh, wow. The morning show, obviously.

3:40Tom Blyth:Oh, my God. How many have you seen?

3:43Nnamdi Asomugha:Well, I've only seen one because it's on every Wednesday. Oh, okay.

3:45Tom Blyth:So I thought you dived into the screen site like me and Boydie, who've been, you know, obviously I've been watching them a lot longer than Boydie because I got to send them much earlier than him. But, yeah.

3:53Nnamdi Asomugha:I don't, listen, stop spoiling your lives. Like, it's really enjoyable to watch. At least have one thing in your life that you watch, you know, on a weekly basis.

4:00Jessica Chastain:They've withheld the finale, so I still haven't seen the finale. No, but if you're reviewing a show, what you're basically saying, we reviewed it last week, right, and what you're basically advocating is we watch as little of it as possible to judge it. No. Do you see what I mean? That context.

4:13Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, I can see what you're saying, but what I'm saying is I'm not involved I wasn't involved in that so for me as a POG person on the ground I like to have a show that I don't feel the intense pressure to immediately step till four o 'clock in the morning and finish just so I can talk about it okay I think I just you know

4:32Tom Blyth:we are not granted that luxury unfortunately well

4:35Nnamdi Asomugha:alright you're really ruining this for me sorry you really are I was going to say I'm watching the morning show and I'm really I'm really happy I'm really enjoying it I am very happy with all the characters where they are how they're coming back I love Reese Witherspoon even Corey I love Corey

4:51Tom Blyth:you and Kay both no no no it's fine to love Corey because Corey used to be the best character he's just now utterly superfluous

4:58Nnamdi Asomugha:why do you think that?

4:59Tom Blyth:because they have nothing to do with him

5:02Nnamdi Asomugha:he's doing the movie he's doing the movie

5:03Jessica Chastain:we're not yeah we discussed this a bit last week but we don't want to appear ourselves why follow this character doing what he's doing it's not connected it's not connected enough to the main story.

5:14Nnamdi Asomugha:Because people love him. Yeah, but that's the problem.

5:17Tom Blyth:And you're having the same problem with him if you have with, I don't know, like Ron Perlman in Sons of Anarchy, where it's a great character whose arc concludes, but they keep him around because they like him.

5:26Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm going to kind of agree with you, actually. I know what you... I've watched one, but then I thought, oh, he's going to join because they have the call. He has the call with Alex at the end of it. And she's like, we're overdue a meeting, don't you think? And then you think, oh, okay, he's coming back into it. But if you're telling me he's not going to come back into it, then...

5:42Tom Blyth:Well, no, he does come back into it. But equally, you feel like he doesn't need to be there. And I think that's a shame. I wrote the review of this for Empire Magazine. I gave it three stars and said it was a very disappointing series of the morning show. But I also said, even though it's a very disappointing series of the morning show, it's still the morning show and it's incredibly addictive. So I very much enjoyed it. And I will watch the next season as well. And I don't regret any of the nine hours I've ploughed into it so far.

6:05Nnamdi Asomugha:But you haven't watched the finale.

6:07Tom Blyth:I haven't seen the finale. So who knows what that will do. but I do need to take issue with a certain checks note Boyd Hilton who wrote the review for The Morning Show season 2 famously the worst series of The Morning Show no I totally disagree

6:20Nnamdi Asomugha:we've had this conversation before why do you why do you think it's so bad

6:24Tom Blyth:well let's let's pause why I think it's so bad because I know for a fact that Boydy has mentioned many times how bad it is and yet gave it four stars in the official Empire review well

6:33Jessica Chastain:yeah but I can't remember I mean first of all as we've established if it it might be the worst it might have been not as good as season one at that point but it didn't mean that you know it was absolutely not worth watching because it was still really as you said about this season still really entertaining and you know watching it I don't know I can't remember how many episodes did I see? I don't know how many episodes did you see? sometimes it says on the reviews

6:57Tom Blyth:we tend to put on the reviews how many episodes you've seen for some reason he's scarily reading back

7:01Jessica Chastain:my old reviews I'm cyber stalking so yeah I don't know

7:07Tom Blyth:what the context I do this it's how I spend my evenings I read old things Boyd has written in case I can then use it to beat him with.

7:14Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, well, you should just do more gaming, is what I would say, you know?

7:17Tom Blyth:This is a game to me, Steph. Oh, Jesus. But, okay, but all of that aside, you've watched The Morning Show, you're having a good time. What else are you watching?

7:23Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, so I just watched, I see it's a crime thing. So, if you followed Serial, probably one of the original and best podcasts ever, they have got a fifth part to The Case Against Adnan Syed, a TV show, though. So they did the TV show Case Against Adnan Syed, and they'd done episode five of that, which follows his release. I don't, like, we know he got released. We know why he, if you go fully into the case, you'll understand why he's still a convicted criminal. He's spent 27 years or whatever.

7:56Tom Blyth:So did he finish, he finished his sentence and got released?

7:58Nnamdi Asomugha:No.

7:59Tom Blyth:He got paroled?

8:00Nnamdi Asomugha:No, no, you have to watch it. Can't you just tell me? No, no, it's really good. and it's really interesting how the technicalities of why he was released. But he's still convicted.

8:10Tom Blyth:He's still considered guilty.

8:12Nnamdi Asomugha:Yes. So the case basically centres around kind of prosecutorial misconduct. Right. And if that case was tried now, would he be convicted? But I don't want to give too much truth because it's so worth the watch and it's really, really interesting from an American justice point of view and how flawed that justice system is. It's brilliant. it's really really good please watch it it's on one of the Sky channels which I can't remember but I'm going to find out now I think it's on Sky Documentaries

8:40Jessica Chastain:Sky Docs because it's documentary but it could be on Atlantic I say that but I have recently as James have you watched it? no no no but I've given assigned programs to the wrong channel on this podcast so I say it's a Sky documentary I haven't made that up but I'm pretty sure it is I would love someone from Sky

8:56Tom Blyth:to give us the cheat sheet as to what makes a show appear on what channel there must be some overarching rule based system that determines where it

9:05Nnamdi Asomugha:goes. If it has so much of this or so much of that I don't think the rules are that clear.

9:09Jessica Chastain:No? To be honest, yeah. I think they just kind of decide in a lot of cases. I mean, that's, yeah.

9:13Tom Blyth:Well, if the CEO of Sky is listening, please do let us know.

9:16Jessica Chastain:We'd really, really, we'd really like to know.

9:18Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, that's really well worth a watch. But did you listen to, obviously you must have listened to Serial. Of course, yeah.

9:23Jessica Chastain:But I haven't, sorry, I did a real lip smack there, which is, you know, my fault. But... What with them being your lips. Yeah. But I listened to that serial, of course, but I haven't really followed the case since then.

9:36Nnamdi Asomugha:It's such an unbelievable... Because obviously the serial case, which is a case if you don't know, of a young high school student called Adnan Syed, who was accused, arrested, charged and convicted of killing his high school sweetheart Hayman Lee, a beautiful girl called Hayman Lee. I won't go into the details of how she was killed and how her body was found, but it's a fascinating case that was taken on by Sarah Koenig and she did this unbelievable podcast. How many parts is that podcast, Boyd? Do you think it's eight? Oh, I don't remember.

10:08Jessica Chastain:Loads. Eight, ten, twelve, one of those. I think more than eight. If you haven't listened to that original serial podcast,

10:13Nnamdi Asomugha:that's one of the best podcasts you'll ever listen to.

10:16Jessica Chastain:Didn't she, Sarah Kearney, kind of established, in many ways, the style of true crime podcasts, didn't she? She absolutely did. Right down to having the vocal fry, which we discussed years ago, do you remember?

10:27Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah.

10:28Jessica Chastain:She talks slightly kind of like... Crackly. Yeah, guttural, crackling voice. She's a trailblazer. Yeah. An absolute trailblazer. Yeah, she's an absolute trailblazer.

10:36Nnamdi Asomugha:But the case, I mean, since that podcast came out, I mean, the case has obviously rumbled on. He's only was released last year. So it's absolutely fascinating. And there is one fascinating thing in it that I must reveal that one piece of new evidence that came out is the person that found Hayman Lee's body in the woods was a convicted flasher. Wow. Okay. and at the time he was never looked into properly it just randomly happened to be this person who was constantly walking around naked flashing himself to people and they didn't think that it was slightly coincidental that he would also be the person who found a young girl's dead body in the woods he was never seen as anything other he's just the person who found the body but that

11:23Tom Blyth:that's Bob the Flasher

11:24Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah but that's explored in this that's interesting I didn't know that

11:28Tom Blyth:I've listened to I'd never finished to be fair but I listened to part of the first season before realising I don't like true crime podcasts

11:33Nnamdi Asomugha:but do you know what I think that's a true crime podcast for people who don't really like true crime oh it's good it is

11:37Tom Blyth:it is really good but I think also I kind of

11:39Nnamdi Asomugha:it's storytelling it is it is good storytelling but I think I knew

11:42Tom Blyth:maybe a little too much about the case by the time I listened to it because I came to it quite late and I think it already there's been so much been said about it I thought I know a lot of this now because I've kind of been exposed to it no pun intended but yeah and so I didn't yeah I didn't press on with it sorry

11:57Nnamdi Asomugha:that's okay It's on Sofa List. Yeah, okay, fine. You should do that. Is it really, though? No, it's not. But watch the documentary. It's really good. Really, really good. Okay.

12:05Tom Blyth:It's good. Good recommendation.

12:06Nnamdi Asomugha:Thank you.

12:08Jessica Chastain:Boydie. My first thing that I'll be watching is also True Crime. Oh. Yeah. Oh, look at Steph. She's so excited. Yeah, I am. I think this will excite you because it's actually a film slash, no, it's a TV show that's on Channel 4 on this coming Monday. that weirdly I saw it at a screening this week and it was presented as a film but Channel 4 for some reason they're calling it a two part series but they're showing both parts one after the other so it's a film with an ad break oh my god this is like a whole

12:41Nnamdi Asomugha:new problem for the film TV thing it feels like you are can I just say I wasn't bringing it up

12:46Jessica Chastain:to rile a James or anything but I'm just saying factually that's how it was consumed it was presented as a documentary film made for Channel 4. Anyway, Channel 4 is airing it Monday and it is Conviction, The Case of Lucy Letby. Yes, it's the, well, it's the third documentary on the Lucy Letby case within a couple of weeks. There was one on ITV1. I've not heard of this. Yeah, there's one on ITV. Have you not watched any of this?

13:10Nnamdi Asomugha:No, we had a discussion about it. We had a big discussion about it last time I was on.

13:13Jessica Chastain:So ITV had their one a few weeks ago.

13:17Nnamdi Asomugha:Panorama.

13:17Jessica Chastain:Panorama had their one kind of the week after the ITV one. And that Panorama one And actually, it's like the third episode they've done on Lucy Rugby, by the way. And now here's Channel 4's one, which is created by Blast Films, made by Blast Films. And it was introduced by Tanya Winston, who is my friend Ben Winston's sister. Ben Winston recently appointed as non-executive director at Arsenal Football Club. Thank you.

13:46Nnamdi Asomugha:Well done, Ben. Congratulations to you. Thank you.

13:48Jessica Chastain:Living legend Ben Winston. and Tanya is the producer of the show and they had a Q &A with the director and other producer after the screening. And it's a two-hour long film, effectively being shown as two one-hour documentaries on show for anyway. But I thought, even though, so I was partly like, you know, I was invited by Tanya to go and see it.

14:06Nnamdi Asomugha:I can't believe you didn't invite me to go and see this.

14:08Jessica Chastain:Yeah, I just didn't. Want to? I didn't have a plus one for a start. It was actually packed as well. I bet it was. It was absolutely jam-packed at the Curzon West End.

14:16Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh.

14:16Jessica Chastain:It was genuinely fascinating. And what is incredible was I thought, oh, you know, I'd actually seen the panorama and the ITD. You thought you couldn't learn anymore. And I thought I couldn't learn anymore, but actually you do. Oh, really? Yeah, there are details. And what it does is it's kind of presented as the guy who led the prosecution expert panel, who's this Welsh guy.

14:40Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, yeah.

14:40Jessica Chastain:He is like the main kind of, if you like, star of the show on the prosecution side. And then on the defence side, there's her new lawyer who's taking charge of the appeal, sending it to the case review panel who review cases if there is alleged extra new evidence, which obviously, Lucy, let me side saying there are. So these two kind of like almost like opposing forces, these two kind of quite strikingly, I was going to say media savvy, but certainly media open to scrutiny men are presented and they kind of cut between the two of them as they present their own views on the case. And then they also have, even more interestingly, they have a couple whose child is affected, I won't explain it fully, but whose child was affected by the case.

15:28Jessica Chastain:And that's really fascinating how that plays out. Yeah, because I feel like that hasn't been done so much, has it?

15:35Nnamdi Asomugha:No, exactly.

15:35Jessica Chastain:That's the element that feels most new and interesting. They will put it this way, they dealt with Lucy Letby. I won't say much more because you need to see her. Anyway, I found it fascinating. But what was extraordinary about it was the feelings are so fraught about this case. It's so divisive. People on either side are so angry. During the screening, right, this is absolutely... people were shouting out loud. I can believe it. So when the Welsh guy comes on and says his stuff, people were shouting at him, telling him to, like, yeah, fuck off, basically. And so then people started shouting at the person shouting, because it was interrupting our viewing of this film, of this documentary.

16:14Tom Blyth:They're aware that it's a one-way medium, right? Well, I know. It's not a fan. You know what?

16:18Nnamdi Asomugha:It's so, as a case, it's so incredibly divisive in terms of sometimes when we get new, obviously there's been a lot of a lot of new Lucy Letby details that have come out and I really think hard about whether to put her on the cover of Crime Monthly magazine, James because I do think some people will just not go, I'm not, I don't, this is what I think about Lucy Letby, I don't want to know anymore this is my opinion and people either are very very much like, she's guilty she's evil or she absolutely is an innocent woman in prison and there's no, I feel like there's absolutely no discussion to be had between people about it.

16:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Although I am kind of in the middle of the ramp.

17:01Jessica Chastain:I am too, but we... I think the evidence is dodgy and how it was presented was bad and it was really bad that the prosecution didn't call any of their own expert witnesses, which has been controversies surrounding this case. They deliberately chose not to for various reasons but I still think she could be guilty.

17:16Nnamdi Asomugha:Well this is the problem with the case. This is exactly the problem. A lot of these things, there's lots been made of the shift rotors and then people are like yeah because she worked there she was there all the time because she worked there

17:28Jessica Chastain:the list of shifts sorry James we're really getting into the detail no no this is fascinating but the list of her shifts were built for the list of babies that had been affected that had been that died basically so yeah of course you're self-selecting the list in which she was working anyway but it was really the actual experience of watching it in a packed cinema with these people who were so invested in it they're shouting at the screen was extraordinary.

17:54Nnamdi Asomugha:Who was it? Was it like reviewers? Was it media people in that screen?

17:57Jessica Chastain:Yeah, it was like, yeah. Media people yelling at the screen. That's quite unusual. No, no, no. It wasn't only media people. Okay, I was going to say. I think there were people who followed the case as well. Yeah, who had... Because I think you could, I'm not sure. You were like, Peter Bradshaw threw a chair. It was extraordinary. No, Peter Bradshaw threw a chair. But Dr. Phil Hammond, who's been writing about it every fortnight in private, he was there. And he's actually one of the on-screen contributors as well. And so it was like people, Phil and his associates of his or people who've just, you know, managed to get hold of it, because I don't know, maybe they're invited as well, and they were random ones from there.

18:30Jessica Chastain:I'm not saying they were Phil Hammond's friends, by the way, but they were random people shouting at the screen. It was astonishing. But I do urge people to watch it. So when is that on? Monday, well, today, in fact, as we go on Monday, aren't we? Yeah. Feel free to shout at your telly. Tonight, Channel 4, 9 o 'clock. It is genuinely interesting conviction, the case of Lucy Letby. Then I've also been watching because we're not reviewing it because it's a packed week but the season 3 of Blue Lights arrives also tonight at 9 o 'clock so you're going to have to record one and watch the other I'm afraid but I think in this day and age I think we can do that technologically you can do that you don't have to worry you can watch Blue Lights on the iPlayer whenever the fuck you want or dual watch

19:10Nnamdi Asomugha:get your iPad out get your phone out have a new TV triple watch do whatever you can

19:14Jessica Chastain:all I'll say about the Blue Lights it is It's, I think, the most kind of pacey, thrilling, brilliantly plot-driven, and yet also reflected in the characters of the characters since Line of Duty. It's got a real Line of Duty vibe for me. You know, it's got that kind of propulsive narrative style. Every single scene is working to advance the story, or at the very least to show us how the characters have advanced since we last saw them. It's brilliantly done. It feels incredibly authentic all the way through. And I really loved it, yeah. That's very high on my sofa list at the moment, by the way.

19:48Jessica Chastain:Oh, good, good. And there's new characters in this series. But one played Michael Smiley, who's having a real renaissance. I love Michael Smiley and everything. He's brilliant. He's in this as a kind of senior officer whose job is to find undercover, people to go undercover in Northern Ireland. And he's brilliant. He's just been in Alien Earth. So I'm going to get to it in a minute. By the way, I'm going to get to it in a minute, listeners. And I love him. He's so good in everything. And he's brilliant in this. And Kathy Tyson is in it as well. Do you remember Kathy Tyson? Yes, yes. She's fantastic as well.

20:17Jessica Chastain:this woman who runs a kind of private members club in the middle of Belfast and deals with various criminal oh my god

20:22Nnamdi Asomugha:I need to watch this

20:23Jessica Chastain:it's brilliant have you not seen any blue lights oh you've got I mean come on crime

20:26Nnamdi Asomugha:I know but you know I have to spend a lot of time watching like shit on Disney

20:31Jessica Chastain:why don't you watch good stuff on BBC

20:33Nnamdi Asomugha:you know how many times I've watched K-pop Demon Hunters and like you know Gracie's always like can we watch High School Musical for the seventh time today Gracie

20:40Tom Blyth:Alien Earth is on could we maybe watch that instead we need to get into something else

20:44Jessica Chastain:so there's that fully strongly recommend blue lights House of Guinness which we didn't have time to review House of Guinness because we've had so much new stuff and it was heavily embargoed Poor Man's Peaky Blinders

20:53Tom Blyth:was the summation

20:54Jessica Chastain:of the Empire Review of that Oh really? I have issues with it I have to say What are your issues? My issues are that it's a poor it is a Poor Man's Peaky Blinders is not unfair and it's also a bit succession-y but not like a poor man's succession as well because you've essentially got it's all about the head of the Guinness family back in the 19th century dies and his offspring are kind of battling with each other over, you know, the inheritance, etc.

21:22Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you think people should stop trying to make the new succession?

21:25Jessica Chastain:I don't think it's that... I don't think they've set out to make the new succession because, let's face it, there are loads of succession stories. I mean, King and Conqueror, right, which is historically accurate portrayal of what we're not in 1066, that's got a succession, purely because there's succession issues in that. If there's succession issues in anything, people say, well, it's a bit like succession. I know, but that's what I mean.

21:43Nnamdi Asomugha:Like, I feel like every time something else comes in, where they go, oh, it's a bit succession-y.

21:46Tom Blyth:Although, presumably, the king in King and Conqueror doesn't go, fuck off, every five minutes.

21:50Jessica Chastain:Well, they do say fuck off. Oh, okay. But it's a totally modern, it's modern vernacular. Yeah, there's loads of swearing in it. I must watch that. I'm adding it to the sofa list.

21:57Tom Blyth:Add it to the sofa list.

21:58Jessica Chastain:It's there. Yeah. I'm doing it. Eddie Marsan, the brilliant thing about that show, I think I said, well, you did review it. Didn't we review it? I was off that week. Oh, you were off that week. Eddie Marsan and Juliet Stevenson, the mother and son, are phenomenal together. and how that storyline plays out is hilarious and brilliant. Anyway, I digress. Back to House of Guinness. It is a bit disappointing. There's something about it. It's almost difficult to explain. As I was watching, I'm kind of enjoying it and it's an interesting situation. And what's kind of incredible about it is it depicts the Guinness family as a bunch of really problematic people and yet it's completely officially sanctioned by them, by the modern-day Guinness people.

22:38Jessica Chastain:It's very open of them to go, oh yeah, our ancestors. I mean, it's clear that these people, you know, who are long since gone. But still, they are a bad bunch, right? And they employ James Norton's character, who's basically their fixer. And he's basically torturing people, torturing the workers, yeah. And you're like, this is the history of Guinness, you know. So I'm kind of like... Turn it like it was. Yeah. So I'm kind of like impressed by the element of it, that they've managed to get away with the whole thing. The no holds barred. But you know how, what it is, is Stephen Knight, it's a really, I mean, I've interviewed him, I've posted Q &As with him, and he's a brilliantly friendly, open, creative person.

23:15Jessica Chastain:He's a fascinating figure talking about this stuff. But I do find with his stuff sometimes, like, he's very good at establishing, at creating the world, world building, that phrase, in fact, is what I'm grasping for. And sometimes the storytelling is a bit, is a bit, like, obvious, and I think in this case, you know how Peaky Blinders, it was so bold and daring with all the modern day music the needle drops and all of that it was kind of instantly captivating and this is trying to do a similar thing but it's slightly less for some reason it doesn't quite captivate in the same way and you have to almost see it to see what I mean

23:51Nnamdi Asomugha:what's the soundtrack like to it?

23:53Jessica Chastain:it's got bits and pieces of modern not as much as Peaky Blinders did but it's got a little bit of that and it's very like you know the thing that's happening now I meant to mention this the other day with another show I can't remember which one you know the thing that happens now when they put titles on the screen of like flash up, you know, 1867 or whatever year it is. And they'll do it in massive, bold, sans-serif type. Yeah, so it covers the whole screen, yeah. That happens in every show now on TV, including this one. And there's a lot of flashing up on screen of stuff that he also does in the SAS programme.

24:24Jessica Chastain:So the SAS programme, which he also wrote, I really enjoy. And his storytelling in that is kind of brilliant. But there's something in this, it's somehow gone a bit awry. Have you watched all of it? No, I've watched like three.

24:35Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, how many are there?

24:36Jessica Chastain:I think there are, I'll ask you a question, like seven or eight probably.

24:40Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, well, maybe it's just a slow burn.

24:42Jessica Chastain:Yeah, it could be a slow burn, yeah. Anyway, that's House of Ginnestors, we didn't have time to review. And finally, sorry, J.

24:47Nnamdi Asomugha:Jesus, have you moved out of your house? No, this is what I do.

24:52Jessica Chastain:I finished Alien Earth, and I only mentioned... Well, I was going to bring this up as well, yeah. James has convened a spoiler special panel, not including me. We're doing it this afternoon. You know what, you can join.

25:02Tom Blyth:You can literally join. There is a seat for you if you want to join us.

25:04Nnamdi Asomugha:Who's in your Alien Earth special panel?

25:06Tom Blyth:At the moment, it is me, Chris and Helen. And I don't know if he has even picked a fourth person. So that could be Boyd. That could literally be Boyd.

25:13Jessica Chastain:You can't invite me to it like an hour before it's about to start. No, he needs more time. No, he needs more time. Of course we can. He needs more time. Anyway, I'll tell you my top new worth. Okay, without spoilers. Without spoilers. I think after episode five, episode five is brilliant. It's the flashback episode. It is the best one. It's absolutely brilliant. I loved it. I think after that, it goes a bit off. Do you? I really do.

25:35Nnamdi Asomugha:Give me kind of a couple of sentences. What is Alien Earth and why would I like it?

25:40Tom Blyth:Noah Hawley, who did Fargo and Legion, he has done this kind of prequel series which is set two years before the original Ridley Scott 1979 Alien.

25:51Nnamdi Asomugha:And it is set on Earth, corporations run the Earth,

25:53Tom Blyth:and a ship crash lands, and it has, among other things, and that's crucial, an alien on board.

25:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, well, I would watch that. That sounds good to me.

26:02Jessica Chastain:what it decides to do after that brilliant flashback episode episode 5 it I felt it just gave me the ick yeah it just like why are you doing the there's too much of the xenomorph you see it too much in broad daylight you know the classic alien the alien

26:20Nnamdi Asomugha:you see that too much yeah

26:21Jessica Chastain:you know how and it really undermines the scariness of that you want it in the dark you want to see just bits of it

26:29Nnamdi Asomugha:not like it's in the kitchen and they do other things that I won't

26:31Jessica Chastain:that are spoilers regarding the xenomorph. There's a lot happening. I'm just like, why are you doing that? It's not necessary and I think it kind of doesn't make much sense, certain elements to it. And it's slightly ruining the whole thing of Alien. You know how we always say... You've seen Prometheus, right? I think that ship has sailed. Oh, no. I mean, Prometheus ruined it massively. Prometheus is ridiculous. But in a similar way...

26:55Tom Blyth:I must admit, I did as well. But I don't consider it an alien film. No, it's like a non-alien

26:58Nnamdi Asomugha:alien film. That's exactly what I was going to say. I wouldn't put that in the franchise it's just a film on its own the best thing about

27:05Jessica Chastain:Alien Earth are the other monster creatures the eyeball creature is brilliant species 64 species 64 is fucking terrifying ends up in a sheep thing oh wow yeah and everything that happens revolving about that thing is brilliant I loved it but everything around it that happens with the Xenobl with the actual Alien Xenobl it doesn't work for me I must admit

27:25Tom Blyth:it's interesting I disagree I really liked it but I did say and again without any spoilers, when I talked to Noah Hawley about it, I did say this could have gone horribly awry. On paper, this could have been very goofy like what you tried to do. I think he pulled it off. I'm actually really happy with it. But I think he took some big swings. Yeah, big time. And the actual ending, I think is way too goofy. I don't mind it.

27:49Jessica Chastain:I don't mind it at all.

27:50Tom Blyth:And again, hearing him explain it helps with that. But look, hey, people listening to this, the Empire slash pilot, because I'm on it, but the Empire spoiler special of Alien Earth will be available on the M Plus special feed now and it will also be on the Pilot Plus feed. I'll be fascinated to listen to it. Oh, it's a crossover. That's nice. It's a crossover, yes. Me and Chris have had custody arrangements. Oh. Yeah, they have a big fight over it.

28:13Jessica Chastain:It was like Kramer versus Kramer.

28:14Tom Blyth:It was a bit like that and we've agreed to 50-50 custody of some of the TV specials.

28:19Jessica Chastain:By the way, I pretty much loved it all the way through until the final three episodes. You loved it until you hated it. No, I didn't hate. I didn't not hate. I just think it went a bit awry. that's how I put it the first five episodes are fantastic I love them the fifth episode is astonishing but then it did tail off for me and went a bit peculiar

28:36Nnamdi Asomugha:you should definitely get him on your spoiler special

28:38Jessica Chastain:well he's a bit down on it I don't know if you want to oh well like President Trump you're not allowing

28:44Tom Blyth:any agreement we don't allow any kind of discord we're taking Boyd off the air immediately I loved Alien Earth I really enjoyed the finale and I thought that the needle drop at the end of the final episode was my favourite of the entire series oh my god

28:57Nnamdi Asomugha:you're giddy you're actually I love that show so much

29:00Tom Blyth:oh my gosh it's right up there with my shows right up there

29:03Nnamdi Asomugha:okay what does it kind of match in terms of the shows you love

29:06Jessica Chastain:oh well

29:07Tom Blyth:you know

29:08Jessica Chastain:Foundation The Last of Us

29:09Tom Blyth:as a Foundation

29:10Nnamdi Asomugha:as someone who watches Foundation

29:12Tom Blyth:yeah my show of the year is still Andor but Alien Earth is right up there I have to yet to formulate my top five but it's in it

29:18Nnamdi Asomugha:oh maybe I should watch Andor not that Wheel of Time andor first yeah

29:22Tom Blyth:anything with spaceships anything with spaceships anything I play with my little spaceships is true

29:27Nnamdi Asomugha:oh cute

29:27Tom Blyth:Speaking of which, I did watch Alien Earth, yes, but that's not the only thing I watched this week. So I watched, just randomly, I turned on TV and watched an episode of 24. Now, the reasons for that are irrelevant, but I think it really made me think...

29:41Nnamdi Asomugha:Well, now I really want to know. Why did you just do that?

29:43Tom Blyth:It was just a thing. It was there. It was on. I watched it. But this isn't really about 24. Obviously, 24 has a similar real-time, propulsive, non-stop narrative to The Pit, which I have seen, and you have not. But that's not the reason I bring that up. But the reason it made me realise, the reason why I loved The Pit and Indy 24 so much... How have you seen The Pit? I watched it on the plane to Florida and on the plane back from Florida because it was on the version of the line. It's nothing to boast about. You just saw it on the plane.

30:08Nnamdi Asomugha:I know, it's...

30:08Tom Blyth:It's the way the creators really intended it to be seen, on the back of someone's seat.

30:12Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay.

30:13Tom Blyth:But because it's essentially a 15-part series and it's 15 consecutive hours, it's real time, the whole thing is real time, and 24 is likewise, it's the anti-procedural, it's the anti-episodic TV episode for me. It's the complete opposite of that because it's literally the most joined up of long-form storytelling, which is why I love it so much. And while I obviously have banged on about the fact that I have seen The Pit and Boyd does not, but I don't think...

30:39Nnamdi Asomugha:It's outrageous, Boyd.

30:41Tom Blyth:The only thing I will say is, and we'll get into this when we eventually get to review this show, which is looking like it might be next year when it drops on HBO Max when that launches in the UK. I mean, I could be wrong, but it seems like that's possibly what's going to happen. We talked about this on Pilot Plus a little bit. the general the received wisdom is that maybe HBO are holding it to launch HBO Max which would be a good because it has been critically acclaimed although the second season is kind of imminent isn't it

31:05Jessica Chastain:although I have to say they made an announcement the other day Sky about that they are airing an HBO Max show coming up very soon so maybe that's it who knows it's not that show a different show what I'm saying is they're still showing HBO Max content on Sky Atlantic it's so confusing so it's still up and yeah

31:25Tom Blyth:but the pit is such when I finished it when I got off the end of that flight in fact I finished it it was pretty close to the end of the flight back I felt like bereft like I'd been through this intense 15 hour shift with these people and you become so sort of enmeshed in these characters so immersed in their lives it's absolutely wonderful and there's and again no spoilers but it's not like ER where it's case of the week and some of them are more intense than the others It's like it gradually builds and builds because it is one 12-hour shift that turns into a 14-hour shift and then there's a bit on the end.

31:58Tom Blyth:So it is one day in this Pittsburgh hospital. And it gets so intense and so extreme and there are huge events in it that I was just like, because when this started, the first three episodes, four episodes, and I think when we talked about it on this podcast, which is when I'd just done my flight out, so I'd only seen I think the first four or five, I was like, yeah, it's good. I really liked it. It's good. It's like, yeah, I'm at 24. By the time you got to the end of it, like now you understand why it got all the evidence

32:24Jessica Chastain:it's literally a review of the pit yes Chase it's exactly what it is

32:28Nnamdi Asomugha:it's a review of the pit by stealth he started talking about Fagan on about 24 he was just showing off and he's mesmerising me and I'm just letting it happen the bullshit about 24

32:39Jessica Chastain:I know I was like let's go by the wayside at one point I was like

32:42Nnamdi Asomugha:are we still talking about 24 no he's reviewing

32:44Tom Blyth:it's literally a review of the pit unbelievable I've pivoted into the pit

32:48Nnamdi Asomugha:what's happening it's a pit pivot

32:49Tom Blyth:it was a pit stop is what it was Oh, my God. But, but, aside from the pit, there is something else I've been watching, and that is The Savant on Apple TV+. Now, The Savant we reviewed on Pilot Plus last week. The Savant you would have watched last week if it had aired, but it didn't air because Apple pulled it from the airwaves. They didn't say why, but obviously I think it's fairly obvious why, given everything that's going on in America at the moment. So they haven't said when it will air, they've just said at a future date. So I guess they'll keep an eye on the political climate. So I had a bit of a panic.

33:20Tom Blyth:so I'd watched I think five of the eight and I don't know why I suddenly thought what if they pull it off the screen side

33:25Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm just about to ask you are they going to pull it off the screen side because I want to watch all of it now

33:28Tom Blyth:last night I just binge watched the rest of them so I got the answer I need to see all of them just in case they pull it because I was really enjoying the show

33:34Nnamdi Asomugha:so I've now seen all of them I need to go home and watch the rest of them

33:37Tom Blyth:yeah I mean I really enjoyed it I think the Empire Review we gave it three I understand why we gave it three and I think Oli who wrote the review said he doesn't think it sticks the landing and I understand that take as well I actually think it's fine, and I enjoyed the whole show, but I certainly understand his complaints about it. Question.

33:55Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you think that someone somewhere at Apple said, let's pull this show to make people really watch it when we put it back on? I mean, it might work. Yeah. It made me, it worked for me. Well, exactly.

34:09Jessica Chastain:It feels like, I mean, there's an article in Variety saying how it's a really stupid decision on Apple's part, and basically framing it. framing it as that they're capitulating to Trump because it is about extreme right-wing people. Well, there's two ways of interpreting it, isn't there?

34:26Nnamdi Asomugha:Jimmy Kimmel's back on air now, so, you know.

34:27Jessica Chastain:Yeah, but there's two ways of interpreting this.

34:29Tom Blyth:You could interpret this as a not wanting to provoke the administration and their particular political view, or you could say this is a show about domestic terrorism and shootings, and irrespective of which side of the spectrum you are on, it's a very sensitive issue at the moment in the US. in the same way that, you know, when there's like a plane crash, they tend to pull a show about a plane crash because it's like, oh, it's just a little bit close to reality. We don't want to upset anyone. So you could, you know, less cynically maybe say it was that.

34:56Jessica Chastain:Well, I'll just read you what Variety says. In a shocking decision, Apple TV Plus has postponed the premiere of The Savant, offering another chilling example of how business giants are running scared of the Trump administration and bowing to pressure before it even exists. The series has been scheduled to launch September 26th. So they're kind of assuming, but... That's a big assumption. It is quite a big assumption. Because you wouldn't say that if it had been lost. I know, but the consensus is, of course, you know Tim Cook, your friend Tim Cook. My close personal friend Tim Cook, yes. As once interviewed live and direct.

35:27Jessica Chastain:We had a connection. You know, he did a big thing with Trump. I mean, I say friend, he's more of an acquaintance. We're not close. He never calls. Well, he has become very pally with Trump. I've never really liked him before. He was at the dinner. He was at the big, not Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle dinner for Trump.

35:46Tom Blyth:Was he? Was he? I didn't know that. Yeah, he was there.

35:47Jessica Chastain:Was he cooking? No. Anyway. So that is the context. There is a context. People have been very critical of him and just how close to Trump he's become. That's interesting. Yeah, it's a thorny topic.

36:02Nnamdi Asomugha:Why are we letting politicians get involved in TV?

36:05Jessica Chastain:Oh, I mean...

36:05Nnamdi Asomugha:Why? Why, why, why?

36:07Jessica Chastain:Capitalism stuff. Because capitalism.

36:09Nnamdi Asomugha:It's just so depressing though, isn't it? It's so bloody depressing.

36:13Tom Blyth:Yeah, and to a certain extent, you kind of I mean I certainly go to TV for an escape from the hellscape that is current affairs so yeah and I will say this one while I really enjoyed it it's a difficult watch because and we said that because it is a black mirror on exactly what is happening at the moment

36:28Jessica Chastain:and it's yeah it's quite grim by the way to assuage your doubts I mean it is still there on the Apple press side is it? okay good it's all available to watch for us you see now

36:38Nnamdi Asomugha:I need to watch all of it well I feel the same way yeah

36:40Tom Blyth:because I think I mean look I suspect very strongly suspect they will definitely release it at some point. It's just a case of what does their barometer look like? When do they decide it's okay?

36:51Nnamdi Asomugha:Has Jessica Chastain said anything?

36:53Tom Blyth:I don't think so. Not that I can see. Although she's going to be saying a lot later on in this podcast

36:56Jessica Chastain:because I'm going to run the interview anyway. The Apple TV Plus statement, just to give you in full, and this is a classic Apple because they don't like to go into detail about anything ever, do they? They are quite opaque. They are quite opaque. After careful consideration, we have made the decision to postpone the savant. We appreciate your understanding. I look forward to releasing the series at a future date. That's literally what it says.

37:15Nnamdi Asomugha:That is terrible. Well, it's opaque.

37:18Jessica Chastain:But at least they are saying they will release it at a future date. Yeah, they're not canning it completely.

37:22Nnamdi Asomugha:There's no juice there. We want the juice. I want to know why.

37:25Jessica Chastain:But it's so interesting. They're clearly anticipating a reaction to it, right? Even with the opaque statement, they're clearly anticipating a reaction from certain people to this series. I mean, that is what's interesting. Yeah, because people are waiting.

37:39Nnamdi Asomugha:Now Jimmy Kimmel's back on air. They're waiting for something else, aren't they? Something else to happen. And now this, I feel like this is...

37:45Jessica Chastain:Well, I think everything is almost refracted through the lens of recent events, shall we say. That's what seems to be the situation. I think anything that touches upon this subject matter, as the savant does, is they're anticipating a reaction to it. That's what I'm saying. And that's why they've postponed it.

38:01Tom Blyth:Oh, God. This isn't... I mean, Boydie, I was going to say, this is an emergency drop. It's not really an emergency, is it? This is just an FYI drop-in that we've decided to do. Yeah, it was your idea. It was my idea. I blame you. I dragged Boyd away from his lunch hour to do this. So we are now the day after we recorded the main podcast, which was really quite early this week to accommodate Steph's work schedule. And, you know, when we were discussing this whole issue about the savant, we mentioned, you know, what does Jessica Chastain think about it? She hadn't said anything. But of course, then she did say something later that day, and we felt obligated to reconvene and mention it.

38:35So, strap in.

38:38Tom Blyth:This is what she said on her Instagram. She posted last night. Me and Boydie were a screening of the Smashing Machine, weren't we? We were. Seeing The Rock and Emily Blunt and Benny Safdie. And yes, this dropped into our Instagram. And this is what she said. Jessica Jastain, I want to say how much I value my partnership with Apple. They've been incredible collaborators and I deeply respect their team. That said, I wanted to reach out and let you know that we're not aligned on the decision to pause the release of The Savant. In the last five years since we've been making the show, we've seen an unfortunate amount of violence in the United States.

39:11Tom Blyth:The kidnapping attempt on Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, the January 6th attack on the Capitol, the assassination attempts on President Trump, the political assassinations of Democratic representatives in Minnesota, the attack on Speaker Pelosi's husband, the assassination of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, the recent shooting at an ABC affiliate station in California, and over 300 school shootings across this country. These incidents, though far from encompassing the full range of violence witnessed in the United States Illustrate a broader mindset that crosses the political spectrum And must be confronted I've never shied away from difficult subjects And while I wish this show wasn't so relevant Unfortunately, it is The Savant is about the heroes who work every day to stop violence before it happens And honouring their courage feels more urgent than ever While I respect Apple's decision to pause the release for now I remain hopeful the show will reach audiences soon Until then, I'm wishing safety and strength for everyone, and I'll let you know if and when this event is released.

40:08Jessica Chastain:Can I just say, in the last sentence, it's funny, because as if, like, we're not going to know when it's released. I think we'll all find out, Jessica, thank you, when Apple's going to release it. People will find out on this podcast. From us. We're here for. Yeah, it's a good statement, I think. And it underlines... I think there's a mystery. I don't understand what Apple TV think they're doing by postponing it what they I don't get what they're afraid of like what that's the question isn't it because she's an executive producer as well she's not just the star of the show 100 % yeah she's very much involved in the creation of it and getting it made but it's particularly bizarre that they seem to be giving the only explanation seems to be they're giving in to to to kind of a pressure they imagine is going to happen if they edit that they'll face criticism from someone, somewhere, the kind of people depicted in the show, maybe?

41:06Jessica Chastain:Possibly. Is it about sensitivities or is it about fear?

41:11Tom Blyth:And is it indicative? Whose sensitivities are you worried about? But is it one of those things where they try not to do, we talked about this, I think, previously in the show, so forgive us if we are repeating ourselves. It was yesterday and our memories are very poor. You know, is it a case of them thinking, you know, hashtag too soon? Do you know what I mean? like maybe it's that or maybe it is we are afraid to do this lest there be repercussions whether there be backlash

41:33Jessica Chastain:it feels very much like the latter yeah because the form it's only kind of you know vaguely similar to what happens in the show funnily enough I was watching Slow Horses last night I watched episode one again myself because I'm reviewing it writing a review of it today and Slow Horses the new season deals with extremist political violence right yes and are they going to stop that as well it's too late I mean, it's gone to start already. That's interesting. I guess because that happens in the UK,

41:59Tom Blyth:maybe they don't really...

42:01Jessica Chastain:Well, I mean, there's as much criticism of what happens in London from this week we had it. You mean the war zone in which we live, Boyd, where we're afraid to leave our houses? Apparently, and we're Sharia law. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, that is a controversy that could be percolating quietly in the background if anyone decided to point it out like I just have now. Yeah. But I think it just underlines, for me, the absurdity of the decision by Apple, because they clearly haven't. Rightly, they have not postponed Tidehorses. But some people might complain about it for reasons similar to the ones that they might complain about the Savant.

42:36Jessica Chastain:It's just a needless, messy load of old nonsense, I think. I genuinely think, by the way, if they'll just let it air, Apple TV Plus, it's like, no one's going to watch it anyway. Slightly. I mean, we love Apple TV. We do. It's got the best stuff. Yes. absolutely but the fewer subscribers the fewer subscribers I think particularly in the UK but I just think what bizarre just pointless thing to do to anticipate reactions to something that is a very well made and very well put together thing I don't imagine anyone would have I was I was saying that not to be sarcastic about the number of subscribers they have even forgetting the number even if it was like a Disney Plus or Netflix show for example I just it doesn't feel like the kind of show that people would be exercised about, even though it is dealing with stuff that's happening currently.

43:31Jessica Chastain:You can't tell though sometimes, can you? No, that's just my feeling is, I think they've over-anticipated the importance of their own show. It's a really entertaining, well-put-together thing.

43:44Tom Blyth:Yeah.

43:44Jessica Chastain:You know, dealing with a really interesting area, a really interesting subject matter. I just don't feel it's the kind of show that would have had people rising up in ire about it. I just don't. You know, so I think they've kind of erred on the side of weird caution.

43:58Tom Blyth:That said, and I don't think this was the objective, I do wonder whether this ultimately will generate more interest in the salon than previously. If you're really cynical,

44:07Jessica Chastain:you could say that.

44:09Tom Blyth:I don't think that's the reason they've done it, but I think that will be a side effect because when and if it comes out, people are like, oh, great, I can find, like, I binge them all so that I wouldn't lose the opportunity to see them. So, I don't know. It was interesting. So, I was on the subreddit this morning when I got up and someone had mentioned on there that they thought we shouldn't have run the review of the Savant in Pilot Plus. Oh, really? And I was like, oh, and I genuinely asked. I said, you know, why? Like, I'm genuinely curious. Because I was like, oh, was this person offended?

44:33Tom Blyth:Like, did they think that it was disrespectful of us to run the review of the show that clearly Apple thought was disrespectful to air? Which is several steps removed. I was like, well, that's quite extreme. Turns out, no, they were just like, well, if I can't see it, I don't really want to hear the review. To which point I was like, okay, I get it, that's fine. But our thought process was very much, I think, and I explained this to them, that we wanted to give people the choice. if you want to listen to it listen to it you might want to be part of this broader discussion about this show do you know do you want to know more about it because if so here's the review and then obviously they can skip it if they don't

45:02Jessica Chastain:yeah I mean that seems fair I wonder whether I mean I haven't seen many complaints from people saying oh it's been postponed that's an outrage I look on the other side of things there's not been an uprising a kind of you know Jimmy Kimmel style uprising it's Jessica said who stars in and helped make the show which is absolutely fair enough but it doesn't feel I guess also partly that's down to Apple's very minimal statement where they literally said we're not showing it right now they gave no reasons at all okay thanks bye

45:31Tom Blyth:but it's interesting that she publicly went out to oppose them on it that is a very interesting thing because you would think was she involved in the conversation and then overruled or was she just informed after the fact this is just not happening it feels like the latter and she's clearly like well no I don't agree with that but like you can you can say oh really is it sensitive I don't really think you should have done But it's actually quite strong to have that conversation with yourself and then also go on social media and make an official statement again.

45:57Jessica Chastain:I think I really admire what she's done by making the statement because it does feel like an absurd decision. It must seem weird to her that having gone through the... How long these things take to write and create and film and market and all of that and to plan exactly when it's going to go out on the stream. And of all of that to be kind of ditched for, as I say, mysterious reasons appeasing something you don't even know whether you would have had to have appeased is weird. So I'm not surprised she has made a statement. It feels like, yeah, you would do. If you'd made this kind of show and they get yanked off air suddenly, you wouldn't be happy and you would discuss it.

46:35Jessica Chastain:Yeah, agreed.

46:36Tom Blyth:And we, in solidarity with Jessica, have, in a show of strength, decided to stand alongside her and run her interview on this podcast regardless. And crucially, that has nothing to do with the fact that we'd already recorded the show and we can't be fucked to redo it. Like nothing to do with that whatsoever. No. No. Absolutely not. Okay. Back to the show. Right. Well, as a complete segue, a complete non sequitur, time now for this week's first guest, Jessica Chastain and Namdi Asamwa are in a new show on Apple TV Plus called The Savant.

47:09Nnamdi Asomugha:I can't wait for this.

47:11Tom Blyth:A very topical show. So Jessica Chastain, if you don't already know, plays someone who infiltrates online far-right hate groups and stops them from committing domestic terror attacks. You can't see it, I'm sorry to say, but at some point you will be able to. And we sent Jordan to speak to both Jessica and Namdi, and we think you should listen to the interview anyway. So here they are, talking to Jordan King. Enjoy.

47:35Jessica Chastain:It is my absolute pleasure to be joined on the Pilot TV podcast by two of the stars of Apple TV Plus' The Savant, the newly Hollywood Walk of Fame-inducted Jessica Chastain, and the surely soon-to-be Hollywood Warfare inductive Nandi Asamoah. How are you both today? Doing great. Very well.

47:53Tom Blyth:Thank you so much.

47:54Jessica Chastain:Well done. Well done. Thank you. I'm well. Congratulations on the show. Thank you. And I try not to be hyperbolic, but this is, for me, extraordinary best-of-the-year level stuff. Thank you. And I think it's incredibly important and incredibly timely. But also, I do wonder, And I would like to know if you guys were sleeping well while you were filming this, because I finished watching it a week ago and I don't think I've had a comfortable night's sleep since. So how were you guys coping with it when you were filming it?

48:28Nnamdi Asomugha:I think the exhaustion of being on set all day, it would just knock me out at the end of the day. So I was sleeping. But man, it was you're right. It's so tense.

48:39Tom Blyth:What the series is, it's quite a ride that you go on with these characters. And when you think that, wow, this is a true story, there are people out there doing this. Yes, there are incidents of mass violence that happen.

48:52Nnamdi Asomugha:But how many have been prevented because these incredible heroes and what they've sacrificed and what they're doing day to day? So, yeah, it's incredible to honor them. It was some late nights and then early mornings. So I think you had no choice but to go to sleep. But the other thing, just on the lighter side, we had kids on set. and they're kids. So as heavy as the topic is, the moment you say cut, they're running around and doing whatever they can to, you know, just dancing, singing, just having fun. And I think that perspective from them was always grounding for me, at least just to be able to go back into that space of like, okay, we're playing characters.

49:36Nnamdi Asomugha:You know, there are people that are doing this in real life and you know we're grateful to them but keeping perspective there I think really helped.

49:45Jessica Chastain:Yeah definitely and I mean I actually read the original Cosmopolitan story back in 2019 when it first came out and it's been kind of crazy to see how in the years since everything that Andrea Stanley was writing about has only become more prevalent and it's become so much more sort of a dominant feature of our culture and our society at the moment. I was wondering for you guys, where did your journey with this begin? What was your onboarding point when you heard about this story and got involved with the project?

50:18Nnamdi Asomugha:Mine was the very beginning. Kelly Carmichael, my producing partner, sent me the Cosmo article.

50:24Jessica Chastain:I think the title is, Can You Prevent a Mass Shooting Before It Happens? I think.

50:29Tom Blyth:That's what came up in my feed.

50:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, exactly. And I was really excited.

50:33Tom Blyth:What a great title. by the way. I know.

50:36Nnamdi Asomugha:She's, uh, to, um, learn about her. And so I, I jumped on pretty quickly, um, onto the series and I've, that was probably 2019 or eight. Yeah. Right before the pandemic, early 2019. So it's been a long journey, um, that I've been attached to it with my production company. As they all are, you know, when you're putting these projects together, it takes time. You know, and for me, it was the typical process, you know, came from the agent's audition for this thing. I saw Jessica's name on it. We had just done The Good Nurse a couple of years before that. And so I was very excited to put myself on tape.

51:17Nnamdi Asomugha:And actually, I didn't put myself on tape. It was it was a direct audition with the casting director, which I absolutely love. And I don't know how much you're aware of this, but a lot of stuff is you send in a tape and you have no clue if they're going to watch it or not. So when any time that you get to see the person that you're auditioning with is super helpful and really, you know, just helps your confidence. And so I did that. And then, you know, some months later, got the part and we were we were going.

51:50Jessica Chastain:yeah and I mean you just touched on there obviously you guys have worked together before on Tobias Lindholm's The Goodness which was actually Empire's gala screening at the London Film Festival a few years ago so you were there for that obviously Jessica and I was just wondering having worked together before and getting to reunite on something like this heading into sort of a bit of dark territory obviously with the subject matter but knowing each other a bit as actors and having been in scenes with each other before do you have a bit of a shorthand coming into this but do you have a bit of a sense of each other's style of acting your your instincts or are you still finding new things in the way that each other works always finding always oh

52:33Nnamdi Asomugha:my goodness I mean the most important thing for me was he's a good person like that's the thing he's a good actor from the good nurse but also he's a good person and I really it was important Charlie is a good person like and I just knew I was going to be you were going to be on time you were going to be professional you're going to say like the same with you like the thing that you want is of course you you want to work with the best but you also also want to work with the best people you know I mean nice this is going to work out you know so I do think being able to have the good nurse as a reference and having that you know sort of level of communication and understanding her in that way, knowing that I wanted to work with her again, I think that was huge.

53:18Jessica Chastain:Because I mean, because obviously such a big part of this is there's a there's a line in the in the third episode that's really sort of stuck with me, a question that Jodie asks Charlie over the phone, where she says, do you think if you engage with terrible things, you're daring even worse things to happen? And something that I found fascinating about that is that over the course of the series, it's not just the question of, is what Jodie's doing daring worse things to happen in America, as a systemic issue. It's also, is she daring worse things to happen within that family home that she's built and within her own mind as well.

53:52Jessica Chastain:And so I wondered, like, for you guys sort of modulating that relationship where these are two, that word, good people, they're two good people that are put under this very unique kind of pressure. How was that for you trying to create that dynamic and sort of show that to an audience?

54:11Nnamdi Asomugha:I think, well, it's also, it's the monster inside of Jodi. There's a lot of what the series is about is she grew up with a lot of darkness. And is that why she's the savant? Is that why she's so good at this job? Is because she understands this world better than anyone else? Because she's, in some sense, been a part of it. And if that darkness is inside of her, is it going to rear its head at some point? Are her children going to be hurt? Is she poison that will end up hurting those that she loves so deeply? I think that's also this idea of can you be exposed to something dark and not let it infiltrate who you are?

54:58Nnamdi Asomugha:And hopefully the question is, you know, everyone's redeemable and everyone's savable and everyone can heal. And I think that's Jodi's journey. Yeah.

55:13Jessica Chastain:And then for yourself, Nnamdi, playing obviously her husband who's seen his own service in the military and is having to try and hold the family together as well. When you're exploring that kind of relationship, does that make you think about yourself as a person in the world? Does that make you think about the way that the work that you do, how much of that you're able to protect from your own bubble, your own world? like how you're able to separate going out and telling these stories that go to these dark places and being able to come home at the end of the day and still be you, you know.

55:49Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, to an extent. I mean, we talked earlier about having kids on set and how they were able to sort of ground us in the reality that, you know, we are playing characters, you know, and them being able to keep us sort of light in the midst of this heavy topic. And I'm actually glad that you said the are you daring worse things to happen that you you sort of phrased it the way you did um and sort of how you interpreted it because as my character that was the way i interpreted it as well which was um you know anytime we hear someone and someone's sort of asking for advice or they're asking a question they're asking in in through their own lens but you're hearing it through your lens and so when she says that to me are you daring worse things to happen And what I'm thinking is, is something going to happen to her?

56:42Nnamdi Asomugha:Is something going to happen to the family? And immediately, you know, my thought process is, how do we stop this? You know, how do we put an end to this? It's starting to seep its way into the family in a certain way. The tricky thing for me was actually when my own kids would ask me, what's the show about? And, you know, I have a son who's relentless. You know, you can't give the right answer. Like, he's going to keep asking another question. And so I think for me, that was like art imitating life or life intent, however it goes, of me trying to find ways to sort of keep their minds safe and their minds protected in the midst of what we were dealing with on set.

57:30Nnamdi Asomugha:So there was that balance in both ways on and off screen.

57:36Jessica Chastain:Congratulations on the show. It's phenomenal. I hope so many people watch it because I think it's so important what it's saying. And yeah, good luck with the rest of the day with the junket. And I can't wait to see what you guys do next. Hopefully a rom-com maybe. That would be fun.

57:49Tom Blyth:Let's relax.

57:50Jessica Chastain:Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Take care.

57:53Nnamdi Asomugha:Thank you so much.

57:54Tom Blyth:Okay. We would now have a listener question, but Kay isn't here. and nobody needs me to go through the triage system and also we've got two interviews this week so we probably will move straight on to news. Couldn't be bothered.

58:05Nnamdi Asomugha:I know, I suppose I would have looked at the emails for you. See, now you're just making me look bad.

58:09Tom Blyth:Now you are.

58:10Nnamdi Asomugha:I mean, I've been a lot on this week. I'm all about the run time, Steph.

58:12Tom Blyth:I'm all about the run time. Oh, are you?

58:13Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, fine. Okay, so we're not having a single listener question. We're not going to have a listener question

58:17Tom Blyth:but if you do want your questions answered do subscribe to Pilot Plus where you will get the joy of the post bag and all your questions will be answered there and you can send them in pilotTV at empiremagazine.com

58:27Nnamdi Asomugha:Hold on a minute, you only answer questions? What are you talking about? So you can only submit a question if you subscribe to Pilot Plus?

58:32Tom Blyth:Yeah. Wow. Capitalism. That's horrifying. Yeah, it's awful, isn't it? Okay.

58:37Nnamdi Asomugha:Well, I am a subscriber, so I can see it. There you go.

58:39Tom Blyth:So you're good. I'll answer your question, Steph. You send it in. Okay, thanks, Han. Good. Right, let's talk about the news. I mean, obviously, we've already talked about quite a lot of the news, but what else has been happening in the world of news? Boydy.

58:50Jessica Chastain:Well, I mean, we can't not discuss the fact that Jimmy Kimmel is back, may he return. Yes. not everywhere though crucially

58:58Nnamdi Asomugha:yes that's so interesting sorry Boyd I don't want to take your news thing but I find that so interesting that there's all these kind of regional channels that are like no we're just going to replace him with news like other you know like 24 hour news broadcasts or whatever they've decided to do on them but they're just not having him back I find that just either have him back or don't have him back the affiliates

59:21Tom Blyth:yes it's weird though

59:22Nnamdi Asomugha:what is the reasoning behind that

59:24Tom Blyth:Well, it's kind of a political statement.

59:27Nnamdi Asomugha:Because they're kind of red states and they don't want that. Right, yeah.

59:30Tom Blyth:I mean, they didn't like him to begin with, but now they have a reason not to air him.

59:33Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, but did you watch his...

59:36Jessica Chastain:I've watched the clip of his monologue. He basically apologises-ish. He explains himself. It all goes back to the monologue he did, which he mentioned the situation, was certainly open to interpretation.

59:52Tom Blyth:Yeah, but it was... by all accounts, I would say, a lot more mild than advertised. Oh, 100%. I listened to it a few times, was like, have I got the wrong clip? I can't work out where the dodgy bit is.

1:00:05Jessica Chastain:But he addressed it in a very eloquent, I thought, really eloquent, well-judged way. I thought his tone was perfect. And, you know, he definitely... And, of course, I thought it was interesting that everyone rallied round. But in the end, I think this is a case, possibly, of, you know, Disney responding to activism. to, you know, there was a huge barrage of criticism they faced from a lot from their own, people who've been in their own shows, people saying they're going to cancel Disney Plus and stop watching Hulu. Indefinitely.

1:00:32Nnamdi Asomugha:I did enjoy all of those things. Yeah.

1:00:34Jessica Chastain:Didn't they lose?

1:00:34Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm canceling my Disney subscription indefinitely.

1:00:36Tom Blyth:It was like three and a half billion

1:00:38Nnamdi Asomugha:off their share. 4.4 billion. 4.4. It was 2.87 % of their share.

1:00:43Jessica Chastain:Jon Stewart made a funny point. He said something like, people can now stop pretending they're boycotting Hulu. Yeah. Hulu's a really good channel full of excellent programs, basically. So he's brilliant. But what made me laugh at Trump, I'm not being political about this, honestly, but Trump's reaction to Jimmy Kimmel returning has just been released, literally as we speak. Oh, God. And he said, I can't believe ABC fake news gave Jimmy Kimmel his job back. The White House was told by ABC that his show was cancelled. Something happened between then and now because the audience is gone and his talent never was there.

1:01:19Jessica Chastain:Why would they want someone back who does so poorly, who's not funny and who puts the network in jeopardy. I like, when do we ever expect the President of the United States to take so much time about talking about how a late night chat show isn't funny? It's such a different world we live in. Do you know what I find so funny

1:01:34Nnamdi Asomugha:about that? It's like that he thinks, like, when he left whatever conversation he had about that show, he thinks they just stopped talking about it. But he's so surprised that people continued talking about it after he'd said his piece. He's like, well, I've said what I think now, now that's stopped, it's over.

1:01:48Tom Blyth:Oh, God. He's just clearly quite worked up and you've got to feel for him because if he gets a headache now, he can't even take a paracetamol. No.

1:01:54Jessica Chastain:Well, he can. It's just women. Pretty good women, apparently. Anyway. Anyway. But yeah, it's a whole big... If you look in the American showbiz press, there's nothing else going on because there's been such a huge news story. Yeah, it has been everything. It's been going on left, right, centre. And the other thing I wanted to mention about it is Robert De Niro played the FCC chair in a sketch on Jimmy Kimmel's comeback show. Did you know about this? Yeah. No. So, yeah, he got De Niro involved. Because the FCC chair was kind of the one who said, did that kind of mafia style, you can do this the easy way or the hard way, which was an extraordinary moment in popular culture on its own.

1:02:33Jessica Chastain:That was on a podcast, by the way, as well. So, you know. But, yeah, getting Robert De Niro to play the FCC chairman, I thought was very funny.

1:02:39Tom Blyth:Can I just say, you know you're on the wrong side of history when even Ted Cruz is weighing in and saying, do you know what, this is a bit much.

1:02:45Jessica Chastain:Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz makes him sound like Tom Cruise's brother. Yeah. He is not.

1:02:49Tom Blyth:No.

1:02:51Jessica Chastain:So, yeah, there you are. That's my main news.

1:02:53Tom Blyth:There have been other things. There have been other things. There was a trailer for Welcome to Derry, which is the IT spin-off show. I have to say, I'm on board. Of course you are. No, but it looked lovely. I love the period setting of it, and you see a little bit Pennywise in there as well. It is a great story. It's easy to fuck up, I would say, but it bodes well. I think that looks very promising, so I was excited about that. Do you remember the Wasteland, which was going to be the new George Miller kind of Mad Max instalment. And then after Furiosa, didn't do very well. Apparently it's going to now be reborn as a TV show.

1:03:26Tom Blyth:So we're going to get a The Wasteland Mad Max TV show.

1:03:29Jessica Chastain:With George Miller working on it.

1:03:31Tom Blyth:George Miller, by all accounts, is working on it. That's exciting. So, yeah. Good. Hooray.

1:03:37Nnamdi Asomugha:Yay. Did you ever watch The Big Bang Theory? Do you hate The Big Bang Theory? I can't remember.

1:03:44Tom Blyth:The Big Bang Theory, I think, is a very interesting show. because it's one of these shows where when it came out, people were like, oh, this is quite funny, and Chuck Lorre is quite good, you know, this is entertaining, good characters, and also I quite like the little nerdy references that I get. Yeah. But it's become one of these shows that is emblematic of all things evil. Like, it's become the show that it is so, it is so uncool to like the Big Bang Theory, to say you watched the Big Bang Theory, to ever say you ever enjoyed the Big Bang Theory. It's a really straight, yeah, it's a bit like Mumford and Sons.

1:04:12Jessica Chastain:It's become this sort of like weird pariah thing in popular culture. But it's partly because of Chuck Lorre, isn't it, actually? I would say, because, you know, he'd create two and a half men as well. I think that's more problematic.

1:04:21Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, that's hurt him more than, yeah. You can't say that which one of those shows.

1:04:25Tom Blyth:But I don't think it's, like, Big Bang isn't seen as problematic. It's just seen as extremely naff, I think. But it's massively popular, and so is Young Children. Why did you ask, anyway?

1:04:33Nnamdi Asomugha:I was bringing it up because the news about Stuart Bloom, Stuart Fails to Save the Universe, the spin-off, and there's an exciting update, and the update was actually just the logo, but it's still exciting, and it's kind of like an Atom logo

1:04:46Jessica Chastain:so did you really like the Big Bang Theory

1:04:48Nnamdi Asomugha:I have to say I watched every single episode of Big Bang Theory and I re-watched I loved the finale I really really enjoyed it I thought they dealt with all those characters endings really I loved it

1:04:59Jessica Chastain:did you watch Young Sheldon

1:05:00Nnamdi Asomugha:and then I tried to watch Young Sheldon but I didn't because I love Sheldon Young Sheldon

1:05:04Jessica Chastain:is a huge hit as well it's absolutely massive and it does really well for E4 I think it's one of their biggest shows but it's no Big Bang Theory

1:05:10Nnamdi Asomugha:I don't think that audience was the same

1:05:13Jessica Chastain:do you? Well, I mean, it was literally a spin-off.

1:05:16Nnamdi Asomugha:I know, but he was a really young boy in it. It was more of a teeny show.

1:05:19Jessica Chastain:Oh.

1:05:20Nnamdi Asomugha:I don't think it was the same. I'd be interested. I don't think it's the same audience. Anyway, Big Bang Theory, I loved, and I'm definitely going to watch Stuart Fells to save the universe because in another life, you and Chris Hewitt would be Stuart. Thank you. And own a comic book shop and, you know, that kind of... Do you know what I mean? He's more comic book guy in The Simpsons. Do you know, weirdly, I think the reason I like Big Bang Theory so much is because when I first started working when I came out of university I worked as the editor of distant empire and all my friends were you like you and Chris and Nick like I was basically in the Big Bang Theory I was surrounded by like all these geeky boys who I adored but who were all completely hopeless at everything and it's true though you were like that

1:06:07Jessica Chastain:the woman in it yeah she was like not

1:06:10Nnamdi Asomugha:like blonde and really hot but I was like the woman in it. I just had a knowledge of what was outside a gaming room so that made me, you know. Anyway, yeah, and I think that's why I like it so much. But anyway, I'm very excited about it because I love Stuart as a character. So Stuart Fels to Save the Universe which is going to be on... Is that next year? Oh, they're filming already. That's very exciting. And there's a behind-the-scenes look at the series. Anyway, sorry, that was my news. The logo's been released. That's all it was. I like your analogy though

1:06:37Tom Blyth:and I totally get that. Do you know what I mean? When Steph started as an editorial assistant she instantly became our favourite editorial assistant because she introduced something called Cake O 'Clock where she went out and got yum-yums and doughnuts and brought them in, I presume in an attempt to give us all diabetes.

1:06:50Jessica Chastain:Did you steal that from Heat? Because we had a cake meeting every week.

1:06:53Nnamdi Asomugha:No, because I worked at Empire before I worked at Heat.

1:06:56Jessica Chastain:I know, but you must have been aware of what we did at Heat, though.

1:06:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Why would I be aware of what you did at Heat when you were in a completely different building? When she worked at Empire,

1:07:05Jessica Chastain:why would she concern herself?

1:07:07Nnamdi Asomugha:We were at Mapping House on Oxford Street.

1:07:08Jessica Chastain:So we, at a certain time, yeah. I think we've all moved between buildings. We all moved between buildings. You were at that time,

1:07:13Nnamdi Asomugha:because I remember when I got my job at Heat, which was directly after my job at Empire, I had to go to Endeavour House.

1:07:17Jessica Chastain:Oh, okay.

1:07:18Nnamdi Asomugha:I mean, you're a huge of me effect.

1:07:19Jessica Chastain:That's weird, isn't it? Why did we have some magazines at one building?

1:07:24Tom Blyth:I think because we had multiple buildings due to having too many magazines. That's mad.

1:07:27Nnamdi Asomugha:The radio stations and everything used to be, like, we were at Mapping House at one time as well. It was crazy. Anyway, yes, I have lived and breathed the Big Bang Theory in real life, and I think that's why I like it. I'm surprised you don't really like it.

1:07:41Tom Blyth:I watched the first, I think, two or three seasons. I watched the finale as well, but I went off it. I think genuinely for me, The Big Bang Theory, when they all got girlfriends, I thought it stopped being funny.

1:07:50Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, God, you're one of those people that says friends got rubbish when Monica and Chandler got together. It didn't get rubbish,

1:07:54Tom Blyth:but Chandler as a character became dreadful.

1:07:56Nnamdi Asomugha:Or in Frasier, when Niall and Daphne get together and people are like, oh my God.

1:08:01Jessica Chastain:Frasier was terrible from the beginning, so that's fine.

1:08:02Nnamdi Asomugha:No, Frasier's brilliant.

1:08:03Jessica Chastain:Frasier's brilliant. I mean, that is inane, but it did absolutely Did you ever call

1:08:07Nnamdi Asomugha:Steph in A? No, you, you're in A

1:08:09Jessica Chastain:when you're saying that Not Steph No, no, no Frasier's brilliant Frasier's brilliant but it definitely went down a tad when Niles Really? Because that kind of jeopardy

1:08:18Nnamdi Asomugha:wasn't there of like do you think? And also there were some awful

1:08:21Jessica Chastain:terrible cutesy episodes focused on the two of them and that was awful Oh no, I really liked it No, no, no, no But people get annoyed when I talk about Frasier Why? Only me Generally when we discuss things I always talk about Curb, Frasier and Seinfeld the same way he talks about Friends, the West Wing and Balistar Galatica and 24 now apparently yeah

1:08:40Nnamdi Asomugha:if I was a regular I'd talk a lot about Everybody Loves Raymond because I really love that show

1:08:45Jessica Chastain:it's my mate's favourite show it's a great show yeah some people absolutely love that show Elgar Elgar loves that show oh it's Elgar me and Elgar

1:08:51Nnamdi Asomugha:it's so brilliant and I feel like it's massively underrated that show

1:08:56Jessica Chastain:there was a period where you couldn't get it it wasn't available and I had to hunt it down I hunted it down on DVD from you know the internet really yeah it was quite weird that and King of Queens

1:09:04Nnamdi Asomugha:two shows which were brilliant. Oh, I never liked King of Queens. You never liked King of Queens? Great show.

1:09:09Tom Blyth:Sorry. Oh, interesting.

1:09:10Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, but yeah. Sorry, we digress.

1:09:13Tom Blyth:Yes, we digressed from news. I don't know where we were. Where were we? No. I don't know, I think it was my fault though

1:09:17Nnamdi Asomugha:because I started talking about the Big Bang Theory news spin. That's right.

1:09:20Tom Blyth:It was a news origin. It was a news origin. I've got three other trailers. I don't know if you've seen them. No. Okay. First of all, there was a teaser trailer for Pluribus, which is Vince Gilligan's new Apple TV sci-fi with Ray Sehorne. Yeah. Doesn't really give much away, which we may or may not have seen. Have you only seen the trailer? I can neither confirm nor deny. Me neither.

1:09:38Nnamdi Asomugha:How have you both seen it?

1:09:39Tom Blyth:I can't possibly divulge this information. What else did I see? I watched the trailer for Lazarus, the Harlan Coburn. Oh, yes, I have a cuckoo bong series.

1:09:50Jessica Chastain:I'm very excited about the cuckoo bong nature of this show. It looks deranged. This is from an original idea by Harlan Coburn, but not based on a novel of his, which is a new development. That is a new development. having huge big Netflix successes and then kind of

1:10:03Nnamdi Asomugha:knowing what was going to happen because if you've read the book

1:10:06Jessica Chastain:if you've read the book yeah this is a whole new original idea Danny Brockle the regular writer is writing it and stuff co-writing it yeah it looks really interesting I thought the trailer got me actually I forgot I watched that it came out a few days ago didn't it I'm excited about that there's a screening next week I think oh is there I think so

1:10:25Nnamdi Asomugha:and what was your third trailer

1:10:26Tom Blyth:the third trailer I watched was honestly the most exciting one of all.

1:10:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, God.

1:10:32Tom Blyth:The Diplomat, season three. Okay.

1:10:35Jessica Chastain:I was just like, it looks wild. Again, you've only seen the trailer. You've got episodes of The Diplomat. I might have. No! You have not. I mean, I can't know. Do you have all the episodes

1:10:47Nnamdi Asomugha:of The Diplomat? He's confirming. He's definitely got all episodes. He's watched the whole thing.

1:10:50Tom Blyth:Compose his email to Netflix live on the podcast.

1:10:54Nnamdi Asomugha:You two are so spoiled.

1:10:56Tom Blyth:I haven't actually had time to watch any of them. Oh, my God. you are the worst kind of twat sorry so not only do you have it but you're oh I'm just I'm too busy to watch this amazing thing that I've got that no one else has got he could have watched it

1:11:05Nnamdi Asomugha:but he didn't

1:11:06Tom Blyth:honestly you're like a hate figure yeah I'm definitely going to ask that now

1:11:11Nnamdi Asomugha:he actually is composing an email now

1:11:13Tom Blyth:I'm literally doing it now I'm literally doing it now don't say but no no no boy said the trailer I'm literally going to say you said it's a fucking boy why don't I have it children

1:11:21Nnamdi Asomugha:calm down

1:11:21Tom Blyth:that is literally childlike I mean but I'm seriously going to do it but the trailer the literal trailer was so good because Bradley Whitford is in it and he's married to Alison Janney's character which sends my sort of wingnut brain into overdrive. It's so exciting. You have the face of a soulless woman who doesn't watch The Diplomat.

1:11:39Nnamdi Asomugha:No, I don't watch The Diplomat. I don't.

1:11:44Tom Blyth:Why?

1:11:45Nnamdi Asomugha:It's kind of crimey in a way. Okay, I'm just going to say this one more time. You two have a lot more time than I do to do stuff like that. We have time,

1:11:54Tom Blyth:you have crime. We're all busy. we're all busy we're all busy yeah

1:12:00Nnamdi Asomugha:but when I get up I have to get a whole other human being like up and then I have to deal with her I have to dress boy in the morning it takes me ages it's like a whole thing pack him off to work give him his lunch I have like a child and a dog you know like two things that take a lot of time be honest which one's the most demanding the dog is quite demanding yeah I'm not even putting Liam into that question it's just like everyone in my house today takes a lot of effort

1:12:23Jessica Chastain:and work so yeah Not to the question of I got the whole thing. I think I do. Oh, my God.

1:12:26Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, my God. You two. Sorry.

1:12:29Jessica Chastain:Dear Netflix.

1:12:32Nnamdi Asomugha:You like Boyd more than me.

1:12:34Tom Blyth:What the fuck is going on?

1:12:38Jessica Chastain:By the way, you wouldn't believe how childish it was about the morning show. Oh, I would. He got that in his Apple box, whatever.

1:12:46Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah.

1:12:46Jessica Chastain:Months before I did. Yeah. Months. There's backstory to this.

1:12:51Nnamdi Asomugha:You two are... We're the worst. No, you are the worst. We are the actual worst. You really are.

1:12:55Tom Blyth:I'm so sorry to everyone watching slash listening. I'm sorry to you.

1:12:59Nnamdi Asomugha:Yes, God.

1:13:00Tom Blyth:Is that all news? Or are there any other screeners that you've got that I don't know about? Okay. Yeah, we're done with this. Yeah, we've retired. There's no reason to cover anything else.

1:13:08Jessica Chastain:We're done. Do you know what? I was going to say, actually, seriously, they put out pictures from the new show, created, written and directed by Mackenzie Crook, who fans of The Detectorist, which is a brilliant show, will be very excited about. And the cast of this show is fantastic. It features Mackenzie himself, Sophie Willen, John Pointing, Paul Kay, and some Michael Palin. Michael Palin doesn't do acting much anymore at all, so that's quite exciting. That's true. We've had him on the Empire Podcast.

1:13:35Tom Blyth:We did a live show with Michael Palin in, I want to say, Edinburgh or Glasgow. No, a few years ago.

1:13:40Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, my God, Catfish has been cancelled. I didn't know that. Sorry, I'm on a news website.

1:13:46Jessica Chastain:But it's been going for like eight or nine years now, isn't it? Twelve years. Twelve years.

1:13:49Nnamdi Asomugha:Twelve years, that's been cancelled. When was that cancelled?

1:13:53Jessica Chastain:it was about a few days ago 23rd of September they can give it to another network if they want can't they MTV said they can move it we've got enough catfish they just need to hang that up

1:14:05Nnamdi Asomugha:12 years is a long time ok

1:14:08Tom Blyth:it's time for this week's second guest and it is Tom Blythe who straps on his six shooters this week as Billy the Kid which airs on MGM Plus this Sunday now you will of course know Tom as the young Corrie Elena Snow from the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. But he is back, back, back for the third, and I want to say final season of this Outlaw Western. Correct. Yoo-hoo, he'll make you famous. No? No Young Guns fans in the house? Okay, never mind. Sorry.

1:14:37Jessica Chastain:Anyway, here's Boydie talking to Tom Blythe. Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Pilot TV Podcast. How are you doing? Hi, Boyd. I'm good, thank you. How are you? Yeah, great, great. Where do we find you today? I'm in New York City. Ah. And yourself, where are you? I'm in London London City London City yeah in my flat and because you've been in Toronto for for a few days haven't you

1:14:58Nnamdi Asomugha:I just got back from TIFF two days ago and I'm going again today yeah

1:15:03Jessica Chastain:oh wow that's a hectic schedule

1:15:04Nnamdi Asomugha:it is but it's fun yeah

1:15:06Jessica Chastain:I've just been watching you I have to say I've just been watching you petting some puppies in Toronto

1:15:11Nnamdi Asomugha:oh yeah that was the best part of TIFF for me I was yeah with People Magazine they had like a studio where there was a bunch of a bunch of puppies I'm a dog not I love dogs.

1:15:21Jessica Chastain:Oh, really? Okay. Have you got a dog? I do, actually.

1:15:25Nnamdi Asomugha:I rescued a dog in Senegal when I was shooting this film, The Fence, with Claire Denis, back to London with me. And now she's a Londoner.

1:15:35Jessica Chastain:Oh, fantastic. What's she called?

1:15:36Nnamdi Asomugha:Her name's Callie.

1:15:38Jessica Chastain:Callie, okay. Anyway, Billy the Kid, how does a young British guy end up as in this iconic role of Billy the Kid in this huge big TV Western drama? How did it all happen, if we go back to the beginning? I auditioned.

1:15:56Nnamdi Asomugha:That's the short answer. Yeah, I was pretty fresh out of drama school here in New York where I've spent the past nine years. And it was during the pandemic, and so I was kind of like hiding out in the woods in a cabin in the woods um where some friends live in upstate new york and uh trying to figure out how the hell i was gonna pay for food and and lodging um in the pandemic because there was obviously like not much work going on um and i got this audition through um and i put down a self-tape and and uh i think it helped that i was kind of living out in the woods like a hermit and and he was kind of a hermit um and yeah i uh i auditioned and and after kind of a series of callbacks and auditions ended up getting the role and then and then had to learn

1:16:47Jessica Chastain:how to be a cowboy yeah right yeah because do you ride your own you do your riding and you know it looks very if you're not doing it yourself it looks very realistic no i mean actually one of my

1:16:57Nnamdi Asomugha:my favorite things about the show um both as a as an actor but also as a as a tv lover and watcher um is that they let all the actors do our own riding um so we have amazing stunt doubles who do um a lot of like the second unit stuff and and uh go off and do kind of like the big wide shots and some of the crazier stuff um but especially for me and daniel webber um who plays jesse we get to do and alex roe who plays pat garrett and we get to do like pretty much all the stuff um which is i think for us it like gives us a feeling of really settling into the characters because it It makes you feel physically like you actually are.

1:17:38Jessica Chastain:Yeah.

1:17:39Nnamdi Asomugha:I mean, not feel like you are doing stuff. So it helps, it endows you with this feeling of like really living like a cowboy. It changes the way you walk because your ass is sore all the time. So you waddle around like a cowboy and, you know, it changes your physicality. But then for the audience, like you actually get to watch shots where we're getting up on a horse and then galloping away. Whereas usually you'll notice when you watch a TV show where actors are riding, it cuts away or, and all they do is walk a few steps and then it cuts away, cuts down to the horse's hooves. And you'll notice in our show, there's like, there's no cheats.

1:18:16Jessica Chastain:Absolutely. Yeah. It's great. It works so well from that point of view. It adds to the authenticity massively. But you, you are, I bet Americans are surprised that you're British, right? When they hear you in this country, because you're, you, you, you feel totally American.

1:18:30Nnamdi Asomugha:well thank you that's a compliment um yeah i mean i think brits are a surprise i'm british like yes home and just i just semi moved back to england a little bit and uh and i've genuinely been met with by a few people being surprised that i'm british um yeah for whatever reason i've ended up playing a lot of americans throughout my career so far and uh i love it i mean i like i like to transform it's like the the reason i do it is so that i get to transform and and pretend to be other people and i i would not be satisfied if i was only ever able to be one of those actors who plays themselves uh yeah it's just not why i do it so uh so yeah i i like

1:19:07Jessica Chastain:transformation fair enough yeah did you when you when you got the role or even since since you got the run since you've been making the show have you watched other versions of billy the kid like chris christopherson and paul newman and val kilmer yeah i haven't um yet now that we're done

1:19:21Nnamdi Asomugha:I think I'm going to go and watch them all, but I made a point over the past four years of not seeing any of those films. I've obviously seen like a lot of the kind of iconic scenes and clips, but had somehow gone my whole life without seeing like Left Handed Gun or all the other ones. So there's so many iterations that like some of my favorite actors have played. but yeah I kind of avoided them to be honest because I don't want to imitate or or kind of mimic someone else's performance and the Billy we've been making is a very different Billy to the ones that have been done in film before often they're quite Hollywood and kind of you know twinkly eyed and and kind of charming and and sometimes psychopathic and we really wanted to ground this this Billy is kind of like a yes a flawed like a morally flawed sometimes but like also kind of a Robin Hood.

1:20:18Nnamdi Asomugha:Like he really is trying to do what's right. And he is kind of on the hero's journey. And so we, we were trying to do something different.

1:20:25Jessica Chastain:Yeah. He does kill people when he needs to, but you get the sense that he's, there is a morality to him.

1:20:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah. Yeah. He's like, he's the whole show is about him struggling with his moral compass, basically. And so that was really important to us to ground that in reality. Yeah.

1:20:41Jessica Chastain:Why do you think that he has become, why it's such an iconic legendary figure. I mean, you know, Pat Gowen, Billy the Kid, which is a flawed film, but it's one of my favourite films. It's got that amazing Bob Dylan soundtrack. Yeah, yeah. I didn't realise, like, he wrote that for the film. Yes. Right, yeah. 100%, yeah. It's about Billy the Kid, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1:21:00Nnamdi Asomugha:So, yeah, I assumed that, you know, he'd written that and then it got co-opted into the film, but the other way around.

1:21:07Jessica Chastain:Yeah.

1:21:08Nnamdi Asomugha:What was your question again?

1:21:09Jessica Chastain:It was, why is that, why particularly has the kid become such an iconic figure? I mean, I think, you know, in the UK we have Robin Hood, right?

1:21:17Nnamdi Asomugha:And it's kind of the guy, he's at the people's hero. And if you go down to New Mexico and Arizona, as I've done, you, like people down there genuinely still have a real love for Billy. And like when you visit his grave in New Mexico, you can see why, like there's like a, there's a real like people's hero quality to him um and he you know he was known for like being a man of a man of the people he like at a time when the mexicans in the area were being persecuted and the natives too like they he he made an effort to speak spanish he made an effort to to integrate himself into their community instead of expecting them to integrate with him um which is you know this is a conversation that has only just started happening now in like american society in the past like you know a few decades and in in the 1880s he was mindful of being being a spanish speaker in a spanish community which is like it says a lot about his character i think um and the spanish community spanish speaking community there loved him um and that's like that's well documented so i think though he was kind of hated by the establishment he was loved by the everyman and i think that says everything you need to know about like why his legend has lived on um he is like the kind of he's like the the southwest american

1:22:48Jessica Chastain:answer to robin hood basically yeah that's brilliant yeah it does feel like there is relevance to this show um in the third season i watched the the the opening episode to what's going on today in america without being too political do you do you get that sense that

1:23:03Nnamdi Asomugha:there is there's a kind of connection i i'm a big fan of like being human is political i think like i have to be someone who is particularly uh i mean i am but like you know not everyone is is a fan of following politics but um i don't think you have to be overtly political to be a political human being like the act of living is political um one way or another whether you like it or not um um and billy is very political in that like he has a view on how things should go like he's trying to run for politics he's not trying to be a politician but he does believe there's corruption and he believes that people are being robbed and that all the riches are flowing to the top um and it doesn't take a genius to see the parallels to today's society where like we're seeing resources flowing to the top and a lot of people in the middle and at the bottom of the structures like struggling to get by um and this kind of like this like dissonance that is happening because of it um it's happening then too on an even greater scale um and i think michael hurst is like acutely aware of that and he's writing a story that's entertaining and thrilling but he's also trying to trying to draw parallels and i think like what are we doing as artists and and makers of entertainment if we're not also holding up a mirror to society and saying um you know like making us think about what it is we're doing um you're listed i saw as producer in this series

1:24:35Jessica Chastain:is that have you been producer before and is that what does that actually mean for you in terms of um i've like somewhat produced a few things before and i've um i'm producing a few things

1:24:45Nnamdi Asomugha:for the future um at the moment um they're in various stages of production uh yeah i'm like I realized in season one and two of this show that I I'm not the kind of actor who just wants to be prescribed um how everything's going to go um I I like to collaborate I like one of the things I love about this this medium and this uh industry is like how collaborative it is um and I'm like blessed with a creator in Michael Hurst and an exec producer in Donald DeLine who are also super collaborative um and season one and two we realized that we were all having input we were all um very invested in in the the big picture and so yeah they graciously let me be a producer this season so that that could be like in an official capacity um and yeah i think as an actor if you are inclined that way it just empowers you to feel like you have a voice in the and set pieces and stuff.

1:25:46Jessica Chastain:So, yeah. Yeah. Now, you won't know this, but I hosted a screening and Q &A for the film Plain Clothes. I did. Yes, in BAFTA. And you were busy. You couldn't make it because you were filming one of your many projects. But I asked Russell Tovey this morning if he had to ask you, if you had a question to ask you. Yeah, yeah. And his question is, how much did you love working with Russell Tovey? And is he humble?

1:26:10Nnamdi Asomugha:bloody russell toby that's the most russell toby thing i've ever heard from russell yeah uh i love that man dearly um i just saw him the other day for a photo shoot and uh yeah i mean i couldn't i couldn't have asked for a better speaking of collaboration um collaborator in russell um we were lucky to get him we both carmen emmy who's the director of playing clothes and i like really wanted him to play the role and he he flew out to syracuse and made it with us um I think he's like one of Britain's best. I think he is like a legend of TV and film in England and, and elsewhere, but he's been a, yeah, a hero of mine for a long time.

1:26:48Nnamdi Asomugha:And I was, I was very lucky to work with him.

1:26:50Jessica Chastain:Well,

1:26:50Nnamdi Asomugha:that you're both green. Like he's brilliant in that film.

1:26:53Jessica Chastain:Yeah. That's all. You're both brilliant in that film. Yeah. It's absolutely brilliant. Yeah. And it's coming out in September in the U S and October. Yeah. September 19th, I think in the U S and early October in the UK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. And you also got two films, haven't you, that you've been talking about in Toronto, right? Wasteman and The Fence.

1:27:13Nnamdi Asomugha:Yeah, so Wasteman, we just had a premiere for it, Tiff, the world premiere over the weekend. And then I'm going back tomorrow, tonight, for a premiere tomorrow for The Fence, which is the Claire Denis film. And yeah, it's been a busy Toronto film festival for me. And my first one, which was a cool way to do it. But I'm really excited by both films.

1:27:33Jessica Chastain:Yeah, because you did, apart from that you did The Hunger Games, so obviously which is part of a huge thing but this feels like you've gone for a lot of indie kind of interesting challenging projects as well yeah i mean it's for me it's all about like

1:27:45Nnamdi Asomugha:diversity of of projects and roles and uh just trying to do stuff that surprises me and surprises other people and uh allows me to stretch as much as i can um and never kind of do the same thing twice um so yeah yeah i've been lucky to be able to do like the big glossy stuff and then also do the cool indies that tell the stories that need to be told.

1:28:07Jessica Chastain:And what was more fun, frolicking with the puppies or frolicking with Russell Tovey? Frolicking with Russell Tovey. Yeah, he's just a big puppy in himself. He is. He is very much a big puppy in himself, yes. Brilliant. Thank you so much, Tom. Great to meet you and good luck with all your projects. And congratulations on Billy the Kid Season 3, which is definitely the final season, right? As far as we know,

1:28:31Nnamdi Asomugha:they've announced it's the third and final season you never know how these things go who knows they might bring us back in like ten years to see just tell another part of the story but yeah this is the final season so I hope everyone tunes in to see what happens

1:28:45Tom Blyth:That was Tom Blythe and it's time for this week's reviews and we begin with Chad Powers on Disney Plus and this is a sports comedy created by Glenn Powell and Loki's Michael Waldron and it sees Powell as a former varsity football star called Russ Holiday whose promising career implodes on account of him being a colossal bellend. Now, unwilling to give up the game, he dons prosthetics and reinvents himself as Chad Powers to give Gridiron another chance. Now, Boyd, you strike me as a man who knows his way around a first down, seeing as you are a lover of all things Americana. So tell us, does Chad indeed have the power?

1:29:22Jessica Chastain:This is interesting, this show, because on one level it should be right on my alley, because I really like Glenn Powell. I think he's become a massive star for reasons involving his charm and charisma and good looks. And I was quite excited to see doing a TV project. And it's also got Steve Zahn from Season 1 of The White Lotus, of course, who you saw a lot of in Season 1 of The White Lotus, you may remember. A lot of being an understatement. Exactly. And it's created by Michael Warden, who co-created Loki. so you know good talent involved and the story is kind of intriguing because it's this kind of as you say this loser ends up being a loser American football player who basically gets cancelled from his behaviour for his knob like behaviour and reinvents himself literally using latex make up etc as another person to join it

1:30:17Nnamdi Asomugha:because his dad works in that industry that's why it's not just a random thing he does but you know what

1:30:22Jessica Chastain:I didn't enjoy it I did not enjoy it And I'm trying to put my finger on why. Question. Go on. Question. Yeah.

1:30:28Nnamdi Asomugha:Did you watch Eastbound and Down?

1:30:30Jessica Chastain:Yes.

1:30:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Right.

1:30:31Jessica Chastain:Yes.

1:30:32Nnamdi Asomugha:I think that's why you didn't enjoy this. Yes. Because Eastbound and Down is funny. Right. Yeah. Eastbound and Down. Did you ever watch Eastbound and Down? So Eastbound and Down, Kenny Powers is the character in Eastbound and Down. Oh, yeah, right. And it's basically the baseball star, you know, and Danny McBride. I just feel that in that role, you need a Danny McBride. Maybe, yeah. You need someone like that. this is not how I want my Glenn Powells but that's you know personal reasons aside but I I watched it and I said why is this so familiar? Why is this format so familiar? And it doesn't feel as well done and it's not as well done and East Band and Down I think four seasons of East Band and Down and I love that and it's really funny and he is the character the problem I have with this is Danny McBride's character is the character that Chad Powers is pretending to be in this.

1:31:26Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you see what I mean? When he dons the latex. When he dons the latex. So while, so like Daddy McBride is like this authentic, because he actually is like that. And I just think this is another.

1:31:36Jessica Chastain:This is incredibly based, something like this did happen, right? This is inspired by a, I believe, by a book which detailed how someone did disguise themselves. Right. So it's kind of happened.

1:31:49Nnamdi Asomugha:Rooted in reality.

1:31:50Jessica Chastain:It is a cuckoo bong story. but it is rooted in reality in the loosest of ways I think but for me it was the tone it was the tone of it and not so much I don't think it's the tonal shifts which I don't ever mind they're fine tonal shifts are fine it's just it seemed to be attempting to be quite kooky a lot of Eastbound Down is a very good reference actually and a little bit madcap and comedic I mean it is trying to be a half-hour comedy described as such in the press release as a half-hour comedy. And yet, it's not that funny.

1:32:27Nnamdi Asomugha:It's not funny.

1:32:28Jessica Chastain:And it's not funny. And it's not half an hour. No, it's not funny. It's barely half an hour.

1:32:33Tom Blyth:Which, weirdly, the savant is, which is a curious one. The episodes are about 32 to 35 minutes. No one's ever going to see the savant. No, that's probably true. The first one's longer, isn't it? The first one's like 45. It might have been, but a lot of the others are half an hour. In fact, the finale's also about 45 minutes. But there's some half-hour. Do you know what? Just ignore me. Some of them are half an hour. That's what I'm saying.

1:32:52Nnamdi Asomugha:That's why this isn't funny. Yeah.

1:32:54Jessica Chastain:So it's trying to be... You know what actually I was thinking is? It's, you know, the best film of the year, which is one battle after another. Is it so?

1:33:03Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, let's not get into that.

1:33:04Jessica Chastain:Anyway, that has a very specific tone, which actually captures the Thomas Pynchon original novel, on which it's very loosely based, Vineland. And Thomas Pynchon, I'm going right... Keep going, keep going. Thomas Pynchon has a very specific tone. to this stuff and I've seen people say who are not so keen on like you James like what you know what's the point of this what is it going for is it well Thomas Pinch has a kind of absurdist comedy tone to it and I think that's what this is Chad Belves is trying to get a similar tone unbelievably to the Paul Thomas Anderson film but where PTA's film does brilliantly I think relentlessly brilliantly starting from the very first scene involving Sean Penn I won't spoil it this is trying to be a bit weird a bit kooky a bit off the wall a bit kind of bizarre and comedic but it's not pulling it off it's not it's not enough and I think it doesn't quite have the courage of its convictions and in fact to go back to your turns out brilliant comparison with Eastbound Down that did have the courage of its convictions that went really stupid when it wanted to

1:34:09Nnamdi Asomugha:and obviously James

1:34:10Jessica Chastain:doesn't like stupid comedy because it had the cast

1:34:13Nnamdi Asomugha:my critique of this

1:34:13Jessica Chastain:is it needs to be more stupid

1:34:15Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah it's not it's not stupid I totally agree with you it's not stupid enough I I do not enjoy Glenn Powell as a comedic actor because I don't think he really

1:34:25Jessica Chastain:he's in that film what was the film where you know the rom-com he did after Anyone But You Anyone But You

1:34:33Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah but he's not funny in that he's just serious he's completely serious and I love that film

1:34:37Tom Blyth:yeah he's a straight man but again he is but he's he's gently amusing rather than funny

1:34:42Nnamdi Asomugha:right he's gently amusing which is what he is in this but that's not what this requires no that's not what this role requires this role requires a really kind of outlandish character. Yeah. And when he transforms into the supposed outlandish character, he's not outlandish enough. Even the makeup's not outlandish enough. No, I agree. The transformation isn't. So, it does not land at all. Like, he's not a big, he doesn't even look that different.

1:35:04Tom Blyth:Well, it's an odd one, isn't it? Because there is an argument, why do you cast Glenn Powell if you're going to put him in that wig with those teeth and those prosthetics and make him look like not Glenn Powell?

1:35:13Nnamdi Asomugha:I don't think he is the right person for this role.

1:35:15Jessica Chastain:I think it's partly showing off as well on his part, or the part going, look we've got this really handsome guy and we're going to do this and we're going to make him look like a complete

1:35:22Nnamdi Asomugha:it's like the whole ugly Oscars thing isn't it it is a bit

1:35:25Tom Blyth:and this is unusual for me there were genuinely two parts in this where I laughed out loud which I don't normally that is shocking to me but I think it's because this isn't silly enough to really do what it wants to do but it's silly enough for me and there was a line about Armageddon that genuinely made me laugh I still think it's genius

1:35:43Nnamdi Asomugha:oh yeah okay that is funny

1:35:44Tom Blyth:and there's a line about writing with your feet as well which also made me laugh as well so I kind of enjoyed it I think because of that and if it had been sillier I probably wouldn't have done but I totally get your point that for what it's trying to do there aren't there are insufficient jokes in this for it to because it is a very silly idea

1:36:03Nnamdi Asomugha:but also I just don't care about him you know I don't care about Chad Powers because they've already

1:36:08Tom Blyth:I mean it's going to be the whole series is going to be a redemption arc isn't it for this guy Russ Holiday who is a massive bellend and he's going to become de-bellendified by the end presumably

1:36:16Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah but I just I just like want Gunpow to like take his shirt off and go swimming do you know what I mean

1:36:21Jessica Chastain:I think we have different objectives going into this which he does in anything but anyone but you oh my god I've watched that twice

1:36:26Nnamdi Asomugha:and it's it's even better the second time wow

1:36:30Jessica Chastain:that is the ultimate plane movie I watched that on a plane oh it's so good that film that is literally made for but it is a good film

1:36:36Nnamdi Asomugha:though isn't it

1:36:36Jessica Chastain:it's fun but as soon as it's over I've forgotten it like I can't remember you know it's two hours of this thing and it was fun it's fully enjoyable it sent Natasha Beddingfield back to the top of the charts oh my god yes it totally did he's completely naked in it he is it's sensational but sensational is going a bit far oh it is

1:36:54Nnamdi Asomugha:he is

1:36:54Jessica Chastain:I mean but compared to this compared to Chad Powell it is sensational yeah I just think

1:36:58Nnamdi Asomugha:this is really it's flat it's really flat it's quite me yeah and not in a million years

1:37:05Jessica Chastain:am I attempting to watch any more of it oh god no way

1:37:08Nnamdi Asomugha:Jesus Christ no life's too short

1:37:09Jessica Chastain:I'm sorry

1:37:10Tom Blyth:unlike Snap I'm sorry Glenn Chad does not have the power no but should you wish to watch it it's on Disney Plus

1:37:16Jessica Chastain:Disney Plus Tuesday, the 30th of September, 2025.

1:37:21Tom Blyth:Fabulous. We should also point out that they have interesting shorthand in this. They're like, oh, how do we portray him? How do we tell people he's a massive bell and we don't have a lot of screen time? There we go, he drives a Cybertruck. Done. Yeah. Now that's shorthand for you. Anyway, next up we have Frauds on ITV. This is created by Saran Jones and Anne-Marie O 'Connor and it's a six-part series that sees Jones as a con artist released from Spanish prison on compassionate grounds after a terminal diagnosis, only to team up with her old partner in crime, Jodie Whittaker, to take on one last job.

1:37:52Tom Blyth:A crime job, obviously. And who better, of course, than to mark them on the efficacy of said crime than our very own criminologist and editor of Crimageddon magazine, Steph Seeland.

1:38:03Nnamdi Asomugha:Yes. Well, when I first looked at this and I thought, wow, these are two giants of British TV coming together. I am going to absolutely love this because I love Saran I love Jodie what could possibly go wrong and the lovely publicist said watch the first two episodes together and that was the best advice did you guys watch more than one episode?

1:38:29Jessica Chastain:Yeah I watched the two I did not

1:38:31Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay well that's interesting I'll be interested to see what you think because after I watched one I was like yeah and then I watched the second and I was like yes I'm so into this and now yeah but she had said that and I think I did say that to you. I never listen. Okay, anyway. Okay, so...

1:38:49Jessica Chastain:This is a lesson, though, in watching as many episodes as you can. Yeah. That you're given. I know you're a busy man, but...

1:38:55Tom Blyth:No, it wasn't even that. I have to be honest, I struggled to get through the first one. Right, okay. I really did.

1:39:01Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, so... So, it starts with Jodie picking up Saran before she's been in prison. She... I don't think... In the first five minutes, you find out. I don't think it's a spoiler. Saran has got terminal illness and Jodie Whittaker is going to take care of her. She takes her to this kind of house that she's a place where she's living in the Spanish mountains and Jodie's all set for just like, oh, she's just going to come here and sort of die quietly. And actually, that's not at all what happens. And again, I don't think it's any spoilers. She wants to, it eventually becomes clear that she actually wants to go out on a heist.

1:39:35Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm going to put it that way, right? She wants to go out on a heist. She wants to do one last heist and that'll give them enough money, like this ridiculous amount of money and what you've missed from not watching the second episode is the brilliant kind of Ocean's Eleven-ness of this female-led drama which is actually incredibly captivating like to see Jodie against her around because they really like I think the first episode is a bit of a slow burn but it ramps up I think towards the end of that first episode and then when you see Jodie kind of coming around to the idea oh god then it really goes apace and when they're assembling this crew, I think it's brilliant.

1:40:12Nnamdi Asomugha:When they get back into the world that they've come so far away from, it's really exciting.

1:40:17Jessica Chastain:The second episode begins with a kind of contract set piece thing, doesn't it, right? They're just as nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is instantly massively entertaining. It is. Intriguing, clever and smart. And I do think they should have got to that earlier. I think they should have got to that towards the end of episode one. at least almost like just show them show them in the chat just a minute or two of that could have because episode two is fantastic it absolutely is brilliant I liked episode one and I think it did a good job you've established the premise it establishes the premise pretty well it establishes the idea particularly that Sir Anne Jones' character Bert is really annoying she's intensely annoying and my prediction is partly was that James is going to find her so annoying that he couldn't deal with it there's some of that but I like the way it pushed just it didn't flinch from showing her at her most kind of irritating.

1:41:14Jessica Chastain:Because Jodie Whittaker's character has got to be immensely irritated by her. That is their kind of friendship. It's a weird situation where there's a toxicity to this friendship. And Jodie Whittaker's the sensible within the boundaries of being a professional thief. She's the sensible one who's trying to kind of point out... Assert some control over... Point out the realities of the situation. and Sir Anne Jones is this absolute maverick loose cannon who you can't control, who flies off and does this, that and the other without telling Jodie Whittaker's character. And I thought the interaction, I thought that was really clever and interesting.

1:41:49Jessica Chastain:And I really liked the fact they did not soft soap just how annoying Sir Anne Jones was. But I do think that if they just, I think some people will find it like, why am I, you know, it just sets up what the heist is going to be, which by the way is outrageous. but once you once you see that opening scene the opening moments of the second episode you're really caught by it oh you're absolutely yeah I totally

1:42:11Nnamdi Asomugha:maybe you're right maybe that's what it was

1:42:13Jessica Chastain:James is about to hold forth on the first episode but we should caution I totally you're totally right that you have to watch both episodes

1:42:19Nnamdi Asomugha:you have to watch both episodes don't like please do not if you want please don't give up on this because it is well worth it like if you watch the second episode like I said you will be captivated it's brilliant and just they look like they're enjoying it so much as well. Oh, yeah, they're having a brilliant time. Yeah, it's just, it's a fantastic watch.

1:42:39Jessica Chastain:Partly before James chimes in, partly because Jodie Whittescoe, who's a bit, because in contrast to...

1:42:44Nnamdi Asomugha:She's really uptight. She's a bit uptight.

1:42:46Jessica Chastain:And yet you see her let loose instantly.

1:42:48Nnamdi Asomugha:And that's so fun to see. Yeah, it's so fun. It's so good. Exactly.

1:42:51Tom Blyth:They know this, though, clearly, which is why they told you to watch the first two episodes, a memo that I didn't get. But they do know this, because at the end of the first episode, there's a kind of a sizzlery. There's like a this season on frauds, even though it is a limited series. It's a limited series, isn't it? Yes. And what kind of threw me is I was like, this is a different show. Like, what is happening? When I saw the What's Coming Up, I was like, this is a show I wanted to watch. Why did I just watch this hour of boring shit? And I really, really...

1:43:17Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, that's slightly unfair, Jones. It's not boring.

1:43:19Tom Blyth:No, I genuinely was relieved when the first episode ended. What? I think, Boyd is not wrong. I found Seren Jones' character quite grating. She is deliberately so. But because it is slow, because they weren't doing anything quote-unquote interesting, I was just like this there's no momentum to this and I'm not invested

1:43:36Nnamdi Asomugha:so makes up for it

1:43:38Tom Blyth:well and right and the sizzle reel everything in that was gold I mean deliberately so like it's a sizzle reel I think I'm the best but I've been shit bits in the sizzle reel but that made me interested but I'd had such a bad time for the last hour I was like I'm not I'm not I'm just not but also I only had one episode but I

1:43:54Nnamdi Asomugha:no I gave you the thing with two episodes oh did you oh sorry I missed that

1:43:58Tom Blyth:oh my god that's totally awful

1:43:59Nnamdi Asomugha:I feel like you can't have an opinion about this because you haven't done what you were told to do. Like, I gave you two episodes. Like, I gave you the instructions. I literally forwarded that email. You did. With the instructions on it. I'm so sorry, Steph. You managed to find out. I'm sorry, Holly.

1:44:11Jessica Chastain:I watched all those episodes of 24 or something. And the Savant.

1:44:14Nnamdi Asomugha:A show that no one else who listens to this podcast can ever watch. I'm so sorry, Steph. I've let you down.

1:44:19Tom Blyth:I've let everyone down. I've let Steph down. You've let me down. You've let yourself down. I've let the whole podcast down.

1:44:23Jessica Chastain:You've let Saran Jones down. You've let Jodie Wittaker down. I'm so sorry. Saran and Jodie this is a personal apology but Boyd can I just say we will be hearing from yeah they're on the podcast next week next week she is in brilliant form she's just generally

1:44:36Nnamdi Asomugha:powerhouses they're just like I really I don't just enjoy it because I mean it is brilliant but god getting them together like oh what it's genius it's absolutely genius I could see them having another series of this like I know obviously the way they've set it up they're not going to

1:44:53Jessica Chastain:yeah it's it's a limited series and says it feels like, it definitely feels like a one-off. I mean, there's a very real possibility

1:45:00Tom Blyth:one of the characters is going to die. Yes, but... Genuinely, who knows? Who knows?

1:45:05Nnamdi Asomugha:Why do you think, Boyd, that they didn't kind of introduce sort of that exciting, you know... Yeah, I mean, good stuff.

1:45:15Jessica Chastain:Okay, stop. I think that because if you think... They were laying the ground, weren't they? There's a lot of characters introduced because they introduced some of the characters to who then... Well, that's the other thing

1:45:23Nnamdi Asomugha:that then come into it. so they needed to have their kind of stories as well like the magician

1:45:27Jessica Chastain:I mean I wasn't ever bored by it I think that's that may be a me thing I was neither bored nor irritated and I actually enjoyed just how far they pushed the St. John Jones character so I'm on board with it my view is I just think they could have if they'd just brought in as I said the opening scene

1:45:42Nnamdi Asomugha:we would have got a better review from James we would have definitely

1:45:44Jessica Chastain:got a better review from James and I think it needed that maybe they wanted to maintain the kind of there's a kind of visual quality to it and then suddenly you cut to this thing that happens at the beginning of episode two. But I think they should have brought it forward.

1:45:56Nnamdi Asomugha:That scene at the beginning of episode two is absolutely sensational.

1:46:00Jessica Chastain:I think it's better. What was the female Ocean's film, in fact? What was that one? Ocean's 8. I think it's better than Ocean's 8. Oh, it's really great. Which it has quite a lot in common because it is essentially gathering a female crime gang to carry out this heist. But I think this is better. I think that was disappointing, that film. And this does a better job.

1:46:18Tom Blyth:But this is why so many shows do that. You know, cold open, and here's some exciting shit. Now we're going to give you 45 minutes of boring stuff, but we're promising the exciting stuff is coming back. This is why they do it, because I think in this world of thousands of streaming services, channel surfing, ADHD viewers, limited attention spans, you need to grab people straight off the bat, or at least within the first hour, or they aren't going to come back, because there's so much else on their respective server list.

1:46:43Jessica Chastain:I think it is grabby enough. I do too. I just think it could have been way more. It could have been just a little bit more with the fun element of the beginning of episode two. that's what

1:46:51Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah but it's the promise of the fun to come that makes you want to watch you know

1:46:56Tom Blyth:delayed gratification I just don't do well with it I don't know what it's telling you

1:46:59Nnamdi Asomugha:no clearly not

1:47:00Tom Blyth:no Netflix still haven't replied about the diplomat

1:47:02Nnamdi Asomugha:anyway let's move on 10 minutes fucking hell

1:47:06Tom Blyth:let's move on

1:47:07Nnamdi Asomugha:you've had too much mochi ice cream yeah that's true it's true to the tits on mochi balls

1:47:13Jessica Chastain:when's this on Boidy Frauds is on Sunday it begins this Sunday the 5th of October and carries on on Monday it's on Sunday and Monday for the next three weeks basically and ITV1 2025.

1:47:23Nnamdi Asomugha:Definitely, definitely watch it. Yes.

1:47:25Jessica Chastain:And watch the first two. Yes, at least.

1:47:27Nnamdi Asomugha:It's fun.

1:47:27Tom Blyth:100%. We've got one more show. Aha! Oh God. Oh God. It's Alan Partridge. Yes, Alan is back in his latest incarnation which sees the tragic entertainer taking a step back from the chat show so far and instead making a show about mental health because who better to help people deal with their own issues than Alan Partridge? Steph, where do you stand on Alan as a whole. Are you a Partridge fan?

1:47:52Nnamdi Asomugha:I am an obsessed Partridge fan. Oh, you are? I absolutely love Alan Partridge and I love this show with every fibre of my being. Well, in which case,

1:48:01Tom Blyth:let's hear, knowing me, James Dyer, knowing you, Steph Seuland, aha.

1:48:04Jessica Chastain:She hadn't even waited for his joke that he was doing there. I have to say,

1:48:09Nnamdi Asomugha:I'm probably not, I probably don't know the intricacies of Alan Partridge as well as, you know, resident Boyd Hilton, but I love... every incarnation of Alan Partridge and I love this show and I think it's as good, if not better, than all his previous work. I just think the way that he... Big words. Well, I just... I laughed out loud at all of it. It was so... It's just so clever. Who wrote this? Because he wrote it. And then... Because it's not one boy.

1:48:48Jessica Chastain:Neil and Rob Gibbons, the brothers who've been writing Alan since Midmorning Matters. Right. I think almost for like 10, 15 years now. Certainly 10. Yeah. So they've been co-creating Alan through all of his most recent stuff.

1:49:03Nnamdi Asomugha:And the brilliant thing about this first episode is it's kind of a bit of a redemption story in a way because he sort of goes back to Midmorning Matters which is one of my favourite things about it. The way that he explains how he's doing this show about finding out the only explanation for the way he was feeling is he'd caught some mental health. It was just so brilliant because I find with Alan Partridge, he has, because he is Alan Partridge, he has that incredible way of doing things without, like you can't be offended by it. Like if you take umbra, you know, like,

1:49:33Jessica Chastain:Yeah, no. Well, it's about, it's about people making stuff about mental health rather than it being about mental health. It's not about mental health.

1:49:40Nnamdi Asomugha:This is about people saying, it's about, it's about a lot, I'm not saying, mental health problems are very serious and awful and I'm not trivializing that at all. But he's kind of talking about the sort of, I would say, I don't know, what is it?

1:49:57Jessica Chastain:As Alan himself... Alan himself pertently says, this is the first ever documentary on mental health. That's all you need to know.

1:50:07Nnamdi Asomugha:But I love it. When he goes back to his radio station and when he goes back to the radio station, the absolute peak the absolute peak of this episode was when they have the session they have the session with Simon where they do the I feel method during an interview and for me that is the absolute peak of this episode it's so clever that is

1:50:31Jessica Chastain:you're absolutely right that is one of the best scenes in the history of Alan Poch

1:50:34Nnamdi Asomugha:isn't it

1:50:34Jessica Chastain:it's like I compare it to Robert De Niro and Al Pacino in Heat in the film Heat where they come together because you've been waiting for this ages and Partridge fans have been waiting to see what's happened to Psychic Simon after they worked together on this time the one show style thing and they have a massive falling out and they are literally like hammer and tongs at each other it's a brilliant coming together of two genius characters because Tim Key is a I consider Alan Partridge to be the funniest TV comedy character in history right and among the most long running he's been going for like 30 years but Tim Key as Psychic Simon is up there with he's like now one of the funniest comedy characters on TV as well and so is Lin by the way

1:51:15Nnamdi Asomugha:Lynn oh my god and the two of them

1:51:17Jessica Chastain:Lynn is in it throughout thank god

1:51:19Nnamdi Asomugha:I was so do you know what it was such a warm feeling to see her in it and she dressed exactly the same just in you know Lynn uniform and just oh god

1:51:28Jessica Chastain:the other hysterical is them in the car together when she makes a move and he swears at her oh yeah absolutely brilliant

1:51:38Nnamdi Asomugha:but also the other scene in the there's a ceiling where he goes to a soup kitchen and explains why why he's not been at the soup kitchen. I mean, it's just so many laugh out loud moments. It's absolutely, I would say, like it's, yeah, I think it's up there as the best. I agree.

1:51:52Jessica Chastain:I totally agree. And I went to a screening of this. They showed the first two episodes. And also at the Curzon Soho, by the way. Oh my God. Same place as I saw the Lucy Letby. Very different experience. No, I shouted at the screen this time. But what, it was the most voluble laughter I've ever seen at a screening of anything. I'm including comedy films and, you know, people were in hysterics.

1:52:12Nnamdi Asomugha:It's a tonic. It's a real tonic for the time. It is a tonic.

1:52:17Jessica Chastain:And even now, just thinking about it and describing what we've seen, it makes you smile because it's so funny. And what I love about what they've done is, the Gibbons, I think their key to it is, they allow the silliness to come through. Yes, so true. And they allow all kinds of different ways of Alan being funny. If it's funny for them, they'll go for it. They'll put it in. And so you've got loads of different, there's a clip of when he goes to see Psychic Simon and they have clips of when they did Rash Decision

1:52:46Nnamdi Asomugha:Rash Decision

1:52:47Jessica Chastain:which is their own their own slot where people would send him pictures of their rashes and they would work out what they've got what the diagnosis was even though as they call it neither of them are medically trained although like it's just chock-a-block every single scene in this certainly in this first episode and having seen I've watched the whole thing

1:53:07Nnamdi Asomugha:oh have you? does it carry on like that?

1:53:09Jessica Chastain:absolutely hilarious I mean, it goes down. There's Jetpack, it's seen in episode two. That's all you need to know. Because they come up with so many brilliant things for Alan to do that it's just an absolute joy. There's a reference to Greg Wallace in the voiceover in the first episode. They've just done an incredible job. And I think what I love about it is, I often say that for Partridge fans, his podcast from the Oast House is the funniest thing because it's literally 100 % Alan. Like, you hear references to Lin in the background, you hear other voices, but it's just Alan, Alan, Alan for like four and a half hours.

1:53:46Jessica Chastain:This is as close as you get to that in the TV form. It's him front and centre constantly throughout the whole thing. So if you don't like Alan, I bet Alan fans are just going to absolutely love it. The immersion into his mind, his deranged mind and world.

1:54:01Nnamdi Asomugha:If you love it, that's exactly, it's a full immersion. It feels like you're back with him and you're like, thank god

1:54:07Jessica Chastain:he's got a new girlfriend right played by Katherine Kelly brilliantly but you only see glimpses of her throughout you don't really but you see enough of her to know who she is and what she is and what's going on with Anna and if you compare it to like I'm Alan Partridge which was genius both series back in the day they made characters of his then girlfriend and it was more of a it was a sitcom whereas this is sticking to the idea that he's making this thing all about himself and he's not going to give time to anyone else probably if he doesn't want to including his problematic, shall we say, girlfriend, Barbara Catherine Kelly.

1:54:39Jessica Chastain:It is fucking joyous.

1:54:41Nnamdi Asomugha:There's also, sorry, we're just giving away all the scenes, but there's another scene where you go into his loft to look at some of his old, and he finds an old tape, an old audition tape. And again, just like I said, when I say it's a tonic for our time, all the references, you know, they're so cleverly done. And if you come to this, it's a way, they've somehow made all the things that are like, people find offensive these days and they've just turned it brilliantly by like you said immersing you in Alan's world it's clever it's laugh out loud funny it's perfect actually it's pretty damn perfect I agree James you don't like it

1:55:22Tom Blyth:I still don't fully understand Alan Bartlett it's true oh my god but don't get me wrong I enjoyed this episode as you said the Tim Key scene my close personal friend Tim Key who was on the Empire podcast it's a genius it's a genius scene but everything because he's a character he's such an absurd character deliberately absurd so having him sort of pontificate on mental health is inherently entertaining because everything he says is deeply deeply stupid and it is genuinely very funny it's not quite I would say my sense of humour so while I had a really good time watching it I'm not sure I'm going to continue watching it because I've never continued with any Alan Partridge

1:55:59Nnamdi Asomugha:you've never watched no I've seen episodes

1:56:01Tom Blyth:here and there And it's good and it's fine, but I don't love it.

1:56:04Nnamdi Asomugha:You don't like comedy, do you?

1:56:05Tom Blyth:This is part of the problem, yes.

1:56:07Nnamdi Asomugha:Dealing with the soul of a human. I don't know how you can not find it funny.

1:56:15Jessica Chastain:Yeah. I get it. Dead inside. Do you? Yeah. How long have we known this?

1:56:21Tom Blyth:Actually, yeah, I mean, that's true. I think perhaps it just hits a little bit too close to home.

1:56:25Nnamdi Asomugha:I was going to say that, but I was a bit scared. Yeah, I don't know.

1:56:30Tom Blyth:I'm like, yeah, this seems perfectly reasonable. Alan's just normal you know what I did see them thinking James does do

1:56:35Jessica Chastain:partridges inadvertently on a regular basis but also I thought this was the most kind of Richard Maidley-ish incarnation of Alan's he's been down that funnily enough he did mention Richard Maidley in the screening in the Q &A afterwards and I think this is really hardcore Maidley for me now you know the way Richard Maidley I watched him on Good Morning Britain yesterday funnily enough because I was like oh my god it's partridge it's full on so the way he kind of he kind of sees himself I love Richard Magdey by the way he's been in your bed he has along with Judy we did a photo shoot for Heath anyway but he basically feels he knows everything about everything that is the kind of bottom line of Richard Magdey and Alan and Alan has that quality to him and just the way he says stuff he will put emphasis on weird words in a sentence and just go a little bit and Alan does that Alan pronounces the WH words the whole time.

1:57:33Jessica Chastain:And you have weird pronunciation. Richard Maitley does the same thing. It's weird how similar they are. The other one I want to mention is Friend of the Pod, Rufus Jones, is in an episode later on. I think it's in episode five. And he plays a lawyer. And that is a hilarious, brilliant scene. Oh, I can't wait to watch them all. It's fantastic. How are you? It's Boyd.

1:57:51Tom Blyth:Brackets Hilton.

1:57:52Jessica Chastain:Yeah. Indeed. Anyway, it's on BBC One. BBC One, Friday the 3rd of October, 9.30pm, 2025. And I think they're putting the whole thing out on the iPlayer, which fans will immediately want to devour from Friday.

1:58:05Nnamdi Asomugha:Okay, that's great. Yeah, I think so. Great news for me.

1:58:07Jessica Chastain:Great news.

1:58:08Tom Blyth:Brilliant. What else is on this week? Well, that's a good question. Blue Lights, you've mentioned. Yeah, I mentioned Blue Lights. Which is the third series of Blue Lights, and that's on Monday, today, the 29th. Also today, Star Wars Vision Series 3 drops on Disney+.

1:58:20Jessica Chastain:I don't know what that is.

1:58:22Tom Blyth:I mean if you're into Disney Plus animated Marvel stuff Marvel Zombies drops on Friday oh okay I'll definitely be watching that are you serious

1:58:30Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah because Gracie loves all that she loves zombies I mean it's all

1:58:34Tom Blyth:brain eating and violence

1:58:35Nnamdi Asomugha:yeah she loves that kind of stuff I'm not sure it's appropriate

1:58:37Tom Blyth:is it not

1:58:38Nnamdi Asomugha:is he sure

1:58:39Tom Blyth:I'm reasonably sure it's not appropriate I couldn't say 100 % but you know

1:58:44Jessica Chastain:what else is on this week well Nine Bodies in a Mexican Morgue started on Saturday which we didn't have time to mention last week and that is a Anthony Horowitz story. It's like a kind of whodunit and then there were none type thing meets lost.

1:58:58Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, that sounds good.

1:58:58Jessica Chastain:With Eric McCormack and others. It does look really good, actually. Kay previewed it and he gave it four stars. Oh, well, then it is good. The thing that with Netflix, right, often when you're trying to get screeners like you've just tried to do with a diplomat and they'll say when they're going to become available blah, blah, blah. The show that they are not putting any screeners out for at all arrives this Friday and that is Monster the Ed Gein story yeah which we were hoping to do on next week's Pilot Plus but they're not putting edge it's not until Friday that's on

1:59:33Nnamdi Asomugha:do you know anything about Ed Gein yeah I mean quite a lot

1:59:36Jessica Chastain:but what's interesting is about I'm absolutely fascinated to see this because it's the Ed Gein story but it's got you know how Ed Gein inspired Psycho yes of course the Anthony Perkins character well in this series they're going to have Psycho the making of the film as an element of the story. So there's someone... So basically, Tom Hollander plays Alfred Hitchcock in it. Okay. And another actor plays Anthony Perkins, for example. And Laurie Metcalf plays Ed Gein's mother. And Vicky Creeps from Phantom Thread, the full-time standard. She plays a Nazi war criminal. It's got maverick casting.

2:00:11Nnamdi Asomugha:Laurie Metcalf is an incredible actress. She does not get enough respect. She is incredible.

2:00:16Jessica Chastain:Leslie Manville's in it. Leslie Manville? oh my god even by Ryan Murphy Stans the cast is extraordinary the whole idea of it is weird that it's going to have psycho in it it's a bit weird so I can't wait but they're not going to why are they not doing that it says we're not sending out screeners

2:00:30Nnamdi Asomugha:why

2:00:31Jessica Chastain:who can say

2:00:32Tom Blyth:who can say maybe when we watch it

2:00:34Nnamdi Asomugha:we'll find out

2:00:34Tom Blyth:well hopefully we're going to cover that on next week's Pilot Plus or this week's Pilot Plus say next week because next week as we record it's this week as we go out

2:00:41Jessica Chastain:so it is Monday it will be Thursday by the way there is a two part Channel 4 documentary starting on Tuesday called Taylor which is about

2:00:48Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Taylor Swift.

2:00:50Jessica Chastain:Sorry, we're doing that on Pilot Plus.

2:00:51Tom Blyth:We're no longer doing Monster. We are now doing that on Pilot Plus. See, James suddenly is converted.

2:00:56Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you like Taylor Swift? He's obsessed with her. Are you? Why are you obsessed with her?

2:01:00Tom Blyth:It's like you don't listen to this podcast.

2:01:01Nnamdi Asomugha:I have a lot of other things to do. But I didn't know you loved Taylor Swift.

2:01:06Tom Blyth:Yeah, I'm a big Swifty.

2:01:07Nnamdi Asomugha:He's a huge Swifty. Did you go and see her?

2:01:08Tom Blyth:Yes. Of course he did. He was banging on about it. Of course I did. You really need to listen to her. I'm sorry. Did you go over the door? I refer you to the episode of the podcast where I delivered a 13-minute monologue about the odyssey that I went through to get tickets for the Eurostorm.

2:01:18Nnamdi Asomugha:Do you like Sabrina Carpenter?

2:01:20Tom Blyth:No, not really.

2:01:21Nnamdi Asomugha:Oh.

2:01:21Tom Blyth:I like a few of her songs.

2:01:23Jessica Chastain:He's 100 % Swift.

2:01:24Tom Blyth:Yeah. What's your favourite Taylor Swift song? Exile from Folklore.

2:01:27Nnamdi Asomugha:Jesus, that was a quick answer. Oh, my God. He's a test, isn't he? Yeah, seriously. Wow.

2:01:32Jessica Chastain:So that's for you. You can watch that on Tuesday on Channel 4. Me and the Kid started yesterday, Sunday, on MGM+. If you've got that, the aforementioned Me and the Kid, we've got the Tom Blythe interview for. And there's a show called Borderline on Friday on ITV, which is an Irish drama, which is a bit like The Bridge. It's like a crime on the border of Northern Ireland and mainland Ireland.

2:01:52Nnamdi Asomugha:Like Thingy. What was that brilliant one where that person got killed? The bridge, yes. The tunnel. Oh, sorry, did you just say that? The tunnel. The tunnel.

2:02:00Jessica Chastain:There's a whole load of different versions of it. Oh, I love that. It feels a bit like that. Borderline is what it's called. And that was on MGM Plus and that's coming to ITV1 on Friday at nine o 'clock. There you go.

2:02:12Nnamdi Asomugha:Amazing.

2:02:13Jessica Chastain:What is our pick of the week? Well, I mean, for me, it's Alan Partridge.

2:02:18Nnamdi Asomugha:I mean, I love forwards, but Alan, my heart is saying Alan. He's a tonic for our time, as I've said.

2:02:25Tom Blyth:Taylor, then, on Channel 4. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Pilot TV Podcast. If you enjoyed it, we would love you to give us a five-star rating, whatever podcast platform you choose. And please do follow us on the socials, at James C. Dyer, mainly on Instagram now. I'm basically off Twitter pretty much at this point. Why? Because it's just toxic and I can't be dealing with it. So I'll occasionally read my mentions, but I'm largely off there. So I'm mainly just on Instagram now. Okay. But you're on, across various platforms, at Stephanie Seelan, Steph Seelan? No, my name is at Steph Seelan.

2:02:57Tom Blyth:Okay, just one word. Just, that's it.

2:02:58Nnamdi Asomugha:At Steph Seelan. At Steph Seelan.

2:03:00Tom Blyth:At Boyd Hilton, at Pilot TV Pods. On next week's show, what are we going to be doing next week? So we will have Jodie Whittaker and Saran Jones on the podcast, which will be very exciting. Amy Lou Wood and Saran Jones will also be on the podcast, which means next week it's literally a... Oh, no, did we...

2:03:16Jessica Chastain:Jodie Whittaker is on her own, confusingly. Oh, right. And then Amy Lou Wood and Saran Jones are together.

2:03:22Tom Blyth:So we do have Saran Jones next week, but it's not for frauds. It's a film club with Amy Lou Wood, and we just have Jodie Whittaker so that we don't have a... Correct. ...a double-decker Saran Jones episode. No. Oh, okay.

2:03:32Jessica Chastain:But we came pretty damn close to it. We came very close. It is Saran Jones week. Yeah. And, I mean, it's only been about months since Saran Jones in that thing on Netflix, which I forgot the name of. yeah that one kidnapped no hostage hostage

2:03:45Tom Blyth:that's the one hostage

2:03:47Nnamdi Asomugha:she's a great lady yeah great lady

2:03:49Tom Blyth:very very good what else will we on we will probably be doing film club next week we might be doing season 2 or series 2 of dreaming whilst black also the last frontier is on Apple that might be embargoed but we'll find out yeah I think it is embargoed good times right well that's it for the show I am off to have a chat with Netflix about the diplomats I'm probably starting to think I'm not even supposed to mention that I've got it now you've got me in such trouble oh you're in trouble now you're in trouble now Boydie God

2:04:19Nnamdi Asomugha:okay

2:04:19Tom Blyth:pilot out