Cross, Betrayal, and Small Prophets

26:47He's so angry. Yeah, I think our viewer, our listener, who asked this question, is more intelligent enough to deal with the dated, obviously, budgetary issues, etc., of a programme made in the 60s, and will be drawn to the brilliant storytelling and characterisation of the show, and realise that it started the whole thing off, obviously, in fantastic style. And that's why we've ended up now, with Star Trek being an indelible franchise of films and TV, etc., that it is today, all down to the brilliance of the OG series. Thank you. Welcome to my TED Talk. No, I see what's in bed. If I'm going to recommend that he get into Star Trek and wants to use the original series as the gateway, I'd go straight to the films.

27:29I would. I'd go straight to the films. Oh, yeah. I nearly said that. But crucially... Which films? You'd skip the first one, obviously, because it's dreadful, and you'd go straight to Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan. Okay. And that would be your introduction to Star Trek. Well, that's universally thought of, the best though, isn't it? Wouldn't you say? Yeah, I actually agree with James on that point, I would say. I think the films, I think that, also, do you know what I love? I love The Undiscovered Country. So do I, it's brilliant. It's at the app. Oh my God, I disagree with it. Well see, shocking.

27:59There are different ways of doing this. Because he said he's quite sci-fi inclined. So I think, go straight in with The Wrath of Khan, do it. If he said, well, I'm not really into sci-fi, I'd have said, go straight for four, The Voyage Home. Because that was the crossover one that even if you weren't into sci-fi, because it takes place on 20th century Earth. You can get into that. And it also has got whales in it. Who doesn't love whales? But you'd watch the second one, Wrath of Khan. Now, Search for Spock, underrated. It's actually not that bad. Now, the rule of Star Trek, if you don't know the Star Trek films, is that the even numbers are good and the odd numbers are bad.

28:28So that is something you have to bear in mind. Search for Spock, obviously an odd number, but it's actually one of the better odd numbers. So I would go Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home if you fancy it. It's a bit funny. Absolutely under no circumstances watch five. Absolutely not. The Final Frontier is a disaster. But then watch six, as Boyddy says, six, The Undiscovered Country. Brilliant. Really, really good one. And then I would stop because I wouldn't watch any of the next-gen films because while First Contact is good, they're not great. And I feel like you'll love them if you love The Next Generation, but if you've not watched them yet, don't do those.

29:00You could, as Steph suggested, go for something more contemporary. Go with J.J. Abrams 2009, Star Trek. Then you've got to watch Into Darkness, which is okay. It's not as bad as people think. And then Star Trek Beyond is pretty good. You could watch those three films. But if you want to start small screen, it's Next Generation, right? I think what's interesting for Baha is, why Picard? I find that so strange. Yeah, I would always imagine because it was on, and it's recent. But then, again, if you're going to do that, you'd go Discovery, but with caveats. So you'd watch Discovery Season 1, which is brilliant.

29:31You might watch Season 2, which is good, because that's got all the Pike Enterprise stuff. And then you could pivot straight from that to Strange New Worlds. So that would be quite a fun thing to do. So you could go down that route, though I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. I would go, I would go, the films, that is my entry point for you. Okay. I would say watch those films up to Undiscovered Country. Then I would pivot, pivot, straight to TV, go straight to Next Generation, skip the whole of season one because it's dreadful. The first one in Counter at Farpoint, you're going to need to watch at some point because it introduces a major character, John Delancey's Q, but it's a really boring two-parter.

30:03What you really want to do is start with season three, but there's a good episode in season two called The Measure of a Man, which I would recommend, but I would go straight to season three. Well, also in season two, maybe Q Who, because that introduces the Borg and you need that as well. Season three, Deja Q, Yesterday's Enterprise, and then The Best of Both Worlds, Parts 1 and 2. And then those are all great episodes. And then just, I would cherry pick the good episodes going forward. Although, to be honest, everything for season three is watchable. But things like Darmok, iBorg, The Game with Ashley Judd, you know the one with the little video game, right?

30:33Oh, yes. That's a really fun one. Ensign Row, which is brilliant, introduces Michelle Forbes, she's fabulous. Schisms is great Chain of Command is amazing genuinely amazing television when it's one of the best episodes of Next Gen ever made if not the best it's one where Captain Picard gets abducted by the Cardassians that's Cardassians not Cardassians that'd be a very different type of show I made Terry watch that she thought it was wonderful I think Tapestry's really good there's also an episode called Lower Decks which is good but not to be confused with the adult animation Lower Decks which I get a lot of shit for because I don't like it and a lot of people do if you're really into to adult animation, maybe watch that.

31:08But I feel like unless you already know Star Trek, a lot of its charms will be lost on you. So I'd probably give that a wide berth. And then once you've delved into that, I would go to DS9 because DS9 is wonderful. Again, terrible first season. Maybe you watched Duet, that's pretty good. Why? Why is it a terrible first season? Okay, so with the exception of Discovery and Strange New Worlds, not including modern Trek, but classic Trek has always started badly. Voyager, Deep Space Nine, Next Generation, Enterprise, they have all been dreadful out of the gate and they take a while to find their feet so you've always got like so starting at the beginning which I would normally recommend is actually not to be recommended but Deep Space Nine episodes The Search Parts 1 and 2 which was the Season 3 opener that's when it all really starts to ramp up really really good stuff what else Past Tense Heart of Stone are really good The Way of the Warrior in Season 4 which is the turning point for Deep Space Nine because two things happen Michael Dorn crosses over from Next Generation as Worf and Avery Brooks as Cisco shaves his head and grows his beard and that That is the turning point for that show.

32:06Once he shaves his head, it fucking kicks up a notch. I don't think I've ever seen you look this happy. Oh, come on. I genuinely don't think I have. You know. You've seen him talk about Foundation, and what was the one you absolutely banged on about for ages? The Expanse. The Expanse, yeah. It's all the same. Make sure you watch Subspace Rhapsody, which is the musical episode of Strange New Worlds. That's loads of fun. But yes, right, to recap, to answer your actual question, the films, two... three, four, and six. That's where you start. Then you pivot, pivot, to next generation, and you start working your way through next generation, beginning with the season one, well, the season two episode, The Measure of Man, I'd maybe start there.

32:49And then, the episodes that I mentioned, so, you know, Q Who, Yesterday's Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, Darmok, Iborg, The Game, et cetera, et cetera. I just go straight into Deep Space Nine, and it's lovely. You'll have a great time. Or else, you can watch the original series, The city on the edge of forever and you have a great time. Thanks, bye. Deep Space Nine is the best, I should be said, but I think you need to build up to that. All right. I think you need to build up to it. I don't know if any of this has been helpful or even, if I'm honest, coherent. There we go. That was a question answered.

33:18I don't know the answer to that. If you would like your question answered in that kind of minute forensic detail, do send them in pilot.tv at empiremagazine.com via the miracle of email. You could have done a whole podcast on that. I could. And you almost did. I nearly did. I nearly did. Don't encourage him. Don't suggest such things. Do you know what? So I was prepared to talk about that in greater length and at less speed. But the various blank expressions I was getting from the two of you, I felt like I had to gavel. It's because I can't remember specific episodes because I haven't... Do you know what?

33:49I'm going to do a re-watch. I'm going to Deep Space Nine re-watch. Do a complete DS9 re-watch. I'm going to do it. Oh, God. So, okay, let's dig into this episode briefly since we're talking about this stuff. I actually didn't know that you were a Trekkie. This is news to me. This is very exciting. Well, I have an older brother. Right. And he's three years older than me. So sort of by proxy, anything that he was watching, I had to watch, which is why I love Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, right? And all of those. And really, truly, why I love kind of MCU, why I love all superheroes, anything. Like all of that stuff is because I had an older brother.

34:22But now I love it for myself, like I was saying earlier. Like now I've got to that great age with my child, which is really and truly the only reason to have a child so you can relive all your watching experiences younger. So we've just shown her Spider-Man and she's like, is this the same as Spidey and his amazing friends, which is the cartoon? I'm like, no, now you need to watch real Spider-Man, you know, and she loves Iron Man and all that kind of stuff. But so yeah, all that, I love all that. Star Trek's amazing. Like Star Trek's such a, it's like, this is the thing about, like you say about Kay, like I think Kay would really enjoy Deep Space Nine.

34:56I think she'd get into it and she would like it. I think she would. I know she wouldn't. I'm going to ask her. Boy, did you back me up here? What now? Because there's emotion, there's romance, there's, you know, there's a lot of depth. It's in space. Yeah. I know this because I literally made her watch an episode of Deep Space Nine and she was having none of it. I'm going to talk to her. I think I can talk to her in a way. It was Kay. I did get Kay to watch Deep Space Nine, wasn't it? Yes, we watched, that's what I got. I think so. I got Terry to watch Next Generation, but Kay I made watch an episode of Deep Space Nine.

35:25I think that's something incredibly comforting about being in Star Trek world. I agree. Don't you? I'm sure we asked someone to watch to watch the season on Asia forever as well but I can't remember I don't think we did because I'm absolutely convinced we haven't done it for this podcast but yes Star Trek was always my happy place when I was quite anxious as a teenager I used to I've mentioned this in the podcast before it's not my finest hour I had the Star Trek Enterprise NCC1701D technical manual and that was a comfort read for me I said if I was feeling like really stressed out I would read the technical manual to the Enterprise I had that as well did you?

35:59He had a mauve cover. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah. It was great. It was brilliant, yeah. It was like, what detail they created for this fucking fictional world. It's absolutely brilliant. Yeah, but it's wonderful, isn't it? Because it's a level of escapism that you really can't achieve nowadays. Oh, you can, because obviously these shows do exist, but there's something about Trek which is different. There is something about Trek which is different, but what I mean when I say that is, I think the escapism that you can achieve when you're watching sci-fi as a child is different because your brain is working differently so you're so immersed in it.

36:35So all of my wonderful, joyful feelings about watching Star Trek as a child, I don't think I can replicate that as an adult because, do you understand what I mean? I do. Because you can really immerse yourself. Star Trek was a solace for me as a teenager in a way that nothing else was. Next Gen in particular was kind of my era of Star Trek and I remember when I first saw the pilot for that, I actually rented it out of the local, it wouldn't have been Blockbuster Video, it probably would have been a Ritz at the time, and they had Encounter at Farpoint, parts one and parts two, and I was like, what the hell is Star Trek The Next Generation?

37:08Because I'd watched the original Trek as a boy, I was like, okay, and I rented that out, and that began my obsession, and then during university, it was all about Deep Space Nine, and again, the video store would have, like, double episodes, right? So you'd rent out, and it would have two episodes on it, and I would rent those all the time as they dropped at university, as I was watching Deep Space Nine. And yeah, I loved all of that stuff, Voyager. And I think because I did suffer from anxiety quite a lot as a teenager, I would be able to just disappear into that show. That's what I'm saying.

37:38And I don't know whether it was like hours of Jeffrey's tubes or Data walking down the corridor. I don't know what it is about it. But even now when I watch it, it kind of, it makes me feel a bit warm and fuzzy. I agree. And I think the other thing is, I think that Star Trek is an accessible sci-fi because a lot of the situation on board the Enterprise is actually quite domestic. Do you know what I mean? So you actually kind of, you don't feel, it's not like your beloved foundation, which I have watched. It's quite dense. Yeah, but it does feel accessible. It feels like an accessible world. It feels like you kind of know these people and you can get to know these characters and yes, okay, it sounds ridiculous.

38:16Yes, they're in space, but they don't feel that far removed. Does that make sense? It's also not that ridiculous anymore. No, it isn't ridiculous. No. Just to go back to the original series, it's incredible. It has so much incredible insights into the kind of technology we now take for granted. I mean, you know, mobile phones, flip phones, they're invented pretty much. Off the back of Star Trek, yes. Yeah, Star Trek. And also, touching on the whole thing, you know, why you got into it in the first place, to the comfort. I think it is a lot to do with how old you are, because I'm older than you, and I'm from a previous generation.

38:52Whereas we are the next generation. yeah my i'm the and we i i grew up watching star trek six o 'clock you know bbc 2 i think it was and you know it was like oh my god what is this stuff it was so different to all the british stuff was happening and it's like when you watch doctor who for the first time your doctor in my case like tom baker is the one that is my favorite doctor because he's the one i grew up watching mostly and star trek the original is the thing is the star trek franchise f thing i grew up watching and I will always love it and always be aware and realise what incredible influence it was on the rest of Star Trek history.

39:26But that's what I'm saying. If you love Star Trek in general, I still, I do believe your favourite Star Trek will be the Star Trek you grew up with. Unless it's Enterprise. Yeah, that's what, yeah. No, I'm in defence of Enterprise but then I, you know, I love, I love Scott Bacuse. I think Enterprise is the only one I've never re-watched, I've never revisited once was enough for Enterprise. Do you know what? I would say I am a massive Quantum Leap fan. Who isn't? Right, so because I love Quantum Leap, maybe that's probably why I lean towards that as well. I've got to be honest with you. If Sam Beckett had the chance, he would go back and stop them making Star Trek Enterprise.

40:00Okay, you've gone too far. Put right what once went wrong. You've gone too far. He's gone too far. Oh, boy. Right, let's move on from that particular question. I enjoyed that. That was good. Good bit of Star Trek chat. Of course you did. He's so happy. I am quite happy. Shall we move on to this week's news? And for that, I hand it over to our correspondent in LA, boyd hilton on the cutting edge of tv journalism he's just come back from the apple presentation what have you learned boydy well what a what a day it was james um yeah they basically unveiled their slate for the rest of the year kind of in terms of tv and film and they had a series of panels of the stars and creators of these shows that i'm about to mention it was absolutely incredible i know obviously you have to bear in mind that i am you know i am on a junket of the kind of which you have every year when you go on your was it universal i'm not sure you can call it a junket if i'm not doing interviews i think we can just call it a jolly i haven't done any issues either anyway um so that so they did stuff like there's a show called imperfect women which these three main stars are elizabeth moss kerry washington and kate mara and it's um about it's kind of like a crime thriller drama about they're they're a tight-knit group of best friends and then there's a murder and then they all changes all their lives but what a trio of stars right elizabeth musk k washington and kate mara i mean the stars that were there actually anya taylor joy is in a show called lucky which is from jonathan tropper one of your favorite um showrunners that's right yes timothy oliphant is in that as well and that's like she's the daughter he's set in vegas and he's like a criminal and you know con man and she he she's his daughter and she's kind of like growing up with all his dodgy activities um there is a show called maximum pleasure guaranteed with tatiana maslani who's always brilliant jack johnson brandon flynn that's a really interesting about young young guys who kind of sell their services online if you like cam boys they're called okay steph yeah i'm sure you'll be aware of all of those i'm not what is it so young boys who sell their services online not young boys like grow young men young young men basically Oh, okay.

42:12Nice. So intimacy is kind of like a gray area between sex work and, you know, kind of emotional therapy. Okay. It's an emotional therapy. It's an interesting world that it's exploring. Put it that way. Put it that way. Now, they did shows that are already on as well. So they did Shrinking, yours in case, Favourite, right? Our favourite. And he was there. Harrison Ford was there. Oh, my God. What did he say? Yeah, in Fall. He was kind of brilliant. He was kind of not grumpy, because I've seen Harrison Ford be grumpy before as an interviewee. Because he loves the show so much. He kind of launched a really touching tribute to how good he thinks the show is, and how much he loves his character and all of that.

42:57So it was brilliant to see him. He looks incredible. He's like in his mid-80s. Well, there's a scene in Shrinking where he takes his top off at one point, and he still looks incredible. Very first sequence, pretty much, of the new season. Yeah, yeah. He's ripped. Then we had Pluribus. There was a Pluribus panel, our friends, Friends of the Pod, Vince Gilligan, Ray Sehorne, and Carolina Wydra, and Carlos Manuel Vesca. And that was moderated by all the moderators, either in the show or co-creator of the show or whatever. And Samba Schutter was moderating, who's the guy who's in Vegas. you know he's the guy celebrating um the joys of of being part of the hive mind of of not being part of the hive mind in pluribus rather and you know living up he's that guy uh and he was he was really good fun as a host um there were colin farrell did the thing for season two of sugar and they basically and shay shay wiggum interviewed him who's in the new season yes boyd can i just interrupt you about sugar because you know i was really really excited about that so yes is it true that this is coming back on the 19th of June?

44:05Can you confirm that? I think so, yeah. Yes, I believe so. And can you confirm this? So this is what I've read. So he's tracking the older brother of an up-and-coming local boxer as he continues to search for his beloved missing sister. That's what I've read. Can you confirm this to be true? I can confirm. I'm so excited. They also, what's interesting about Sugar is there's the massive twist in Sugar, right, which anyone who's watched season one will know about. and I was wondering how they're going to deal with this on the panel are they just going to kind of you know warn people you know they've got massive massive spoiler but they just basically accepted that everyone knew and they just discussed it so that was quite interesting well I would say to listeners who have any interest in watching Sugar this is definitely a show you need to watch the first season of before you dive into season 2 yeah 100 % Your Friends and Neighbors you mentioned James earlier yes John Hamm, Amanda Peet, Olivia Munn they're all there James Marsden who's the newbie for season two and that's Jonathan Tropper as well he was a busy man he hosted two sessions Jonathan Tropper lest we forget showrunner of my beloved Banshee and of course seasons two and three of Sea exactly exactly there's a really good show called looks brilliant called Widow's Bay spoiler alert embargo breaking is that Widow's Bay I don't know you just said it was a really good show and I'm just saying that's a spoiler for this podcast I'm probably breaking an embargo.

45:30No, no, no, no, no. Just from the clips, they show. Oh, I see. You haven't noticed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And what Matthew Rhys was saying about it and the creators. Katie Dippold is the co-creator of the show and she was really good fun. It's kind of set in the kind of world of like Jaws is set. It's like a tribute to that kind of world, you know, but without having a great white shark in it. And it's like a kind of horror comedy thriller type thing. They're all talking about like a mix of genres, but it looks really fun from the clips. I'm not breaking any embargo. that was um fully allowed well i think that might be the monarch legacy of monsters if you're into that that you know all that's coming back soon with godzilla and king kong and monsters and kurt russell and white russell playing the same character of course old and young um and it was yeah and it was uh oh yeah that's got margot's got money troubles how can i forget michelle pfeiffer el fanning nick offerman all on on stage as well this is this is a show where el fanning goes on only fans isn't it yes exactly yes and um but michelle pfeiffer holding forth um about that that looks really good as well so yeah it there's there's loads of amazing stuff and it was um a fine time oh i've missed out i've totally sorry sorry james i've um i've left the best of last because the most exciting thing they showed for me the clips they showed and the trailer they showed is the TV version of Cape Fear that they're doing.

46:52Do you know what, Boyd? I was literally just going to ask you what your favourite thing is, and I had the Cape Fear on the remake of Cape Fear. Because it's Amy Adams, isn't it? Amy Adams is Patrick Wilson, who are on the panel, and Javier Bardem as the Robert De Niro villain character, who looks absolutely brilliant. Javier Bardem has done some of the best bad, nasty villain acting in recent times. I'm going to say something that you're probably going to disagree with. I think that Javier Bardem is the greatest Bond villain of all time. No, I think you might be right. He's absolutely brilliant.

47:26Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't really know what to do with that comment. What do you mean you don't know what to do with that comment? You don't think that Javier Bardem is... I mean, he's good. He's definitely good. Is he the best of all time? I think he's the best of all time. I mean, it's a very good film, but... Okay, who's better than him? I mean, Blofeld or Goldfinger, like classic. Goldfinger, maybe. No, no. No, Javier Bardem. When Javier Bardem takes out his teeth, that is one of the greatest scenes, greatest Bond scenes ever. Anyway, sorry, Boyd, carry on. No, I don't disagree. I think he is potentially in that role.

48:00Of course, No Country for Old Men. Remember the performance in that? Extraordinary. I mean, he is fucking brilliant. And from the clips they showed, he's going to be equally astounding as the horrendous. So they've turned basically Cape Fear the story into a 10-part series. And they were talking all about the challenges of that and you know what what they're exploring and how it's going to be different from the film and so i'm intrigued to see because i love cape fear the film they say the second version is the robert mitchell version before that which is also good but the de niro one is the iconic the de de niro scorsese nick nolte jessica lounge one is absolutely incredible i watch it like pretty much you know what it is it's one of my favorite films of course it is of course it is yeah i see this this does fall under that awful umbrella of IP farming a little bit, which is, you know, obviously Paramount Plus have done quite a lot of this, but Apple have done it with Presumably Denison.

48:51And it gives me pause, because I prefer original things, and also because the Scorsese one is so good, it feels like, what more can you add to this? Like, it's been done exceptionally well. But, you know, obviously TV is a different format, and this will be a long-form story, and maybe it will bear that. I don't know. I'm not going to judge it. I am excited about it. I definitely want to see it. I would be very, very interested to see what they do with the score for this 10-parter because the score to Cape Fear is such an integral part of the film. Steph, let me just tell you exclusively that they introduced the clips and the on-stage presentation with the theme tune.

49:33Okay, that's what I need to hear. Yeah, the answer is they're using the original. it's so good that that um that theme it's a it's incredible yeah so to your point james because that would be one thing that i'd say you cannot improve prove on that at all so you know you never know yeah well alex godfrey of empire magazine spoke to the showrunner about the stuff um so uh i'm sure you'll read all about it in empire at some point but um you know he's very he was very open the showrunner about how obviously the challenge of of doing exactly that of turning this incredible original or an incredible version of the story into a 10 hour thing and he kind of hinted at what he's basically he's exploring the backstories of all the characters that is and you could see from the clips there's certain different kind of things they've all got secrets and lies you know within them all of all of the main characters the family and the um the kind of main villain character played uh played by de niro in the film so it's just going deeper into all of that into the whole all the characters and their lives and their backstories and their secrets i don't know that you can tell from la but james has already decided he hates it i definitely i think he's got his he's got his skeptical look on yeah definitely yeah he's got like yeah we'll we'll see we'll let james judge when it arrives he'll tell us you know what happens in the end and why if it's been critically annihilated he'll be the first to let us know Okay Okay Is there any other news Other than Boyd's exploits in Appleland?

51:06Okay Did you So Jack Thorne has said about adolescence That there is not going to be a second series That involves the Miller family I had read Did you know that? I assumed as much But I hadn't seen the quote He said no It's not going to He said So if we ever do anything else in that format Which we might do in years to come Yeah But not currently thinking Good choice The other thing that I saw and I haven't watched this. I don't know if you guys ever reviewed this. Animal Kingdom. Have you seen that show? Yeah. So Finn Cole. Okay, so Finn Cole. So this ran for six seasons. I've never watched it, which I find strange.

51:43I hadn't even heard of it, to be honest. Crime drama starring Peaky Blinders Act, Finn Cole. And all six seasons have landed on Netflix. So you can binge it all, which I plan to do. Is it any good, guys? I think it started as a film, didn't it? To my memory, I think, and this is like the TV series version of the film, I'm pretty sure. It's like a matriarch, a mad criminal matriarch and her family of kind of violent thugs. Is it? That's my version of that. No, he's Joshua J. Cody, a grieving teenager who moves in with his mother's estranged family after she dies from an overdose. Okay, well, look, it's all on Netflix now, all six seasons, and there to binge at your pleasure.

52:27in Bill Lawrence news I read that the janitor is not going to be featuring in the reboot and they will only address whether the janitor who also isn't shrinking he is they will only address whether the janitor comes back because they're currently working on episode 8 and 9 of the new series if they get a second season so if you care about the janitor which I love the janitor how do you have a reboot of Scrubs without the janitor well I do you know what James James, that's exactly my point. I don't think you can because he gets all those snappy one-liners and I don't think you can have it without him.

53:02So this is making me, and I love Scrubs, it's making me very concerned. Yeah, that makes me concerned as well. Okay. Interesting. I know. Interesting. Well, here's what's also interesting. I should do a big dramatic build-up to this, but after the last time I'm not going to, but there's been more casting for the God of War TV show, which is very exciting. Specifically one particular bit, and that is that Mandy Patinkin is going to be playing Odin, King of the Gods, a role that was voiced by Richard Schiff from the West Wing in the video game. So that's very cool. Yay! Yay, that's right. Olafur Dari Olufsen is going to be voicing Thor.

53:36He has the best voice ever. He's gravelly. He's a great Thor. That's a really good choice. So excited about that. And anyone else? I guess people like Alistair Duncan was cast as Mimir as well. And I think we covered Max Barker's Heimdall. I think we covered the others. So yeah, that's my weekly update on the casting of the upcoming God of War show. Great. We feel fully informed about God of War, don't we, Boyd? Good. I'm glad. I'm very glad. We were. Yes. Has there been any other news? It's not been a particular... Oh, no, there was one bit of news, I'm sure, because I think I put it in a little news folder.

54:08Hold on. Let me have a look. Bless you. Did I? Oh, well, no. This is something that Boyd has obviously already covered, so that's not very helpful, but that your friends and neighbours has been renewed for season three. Oh, yeah. That has been renewed for the third season. That I am actually very pleased about, because as I've said, i really like that show yeah they talked about he talked about how it's good to have to know you've been renewed and then you can plan ahead and you know get it all over that at the end of pluribus the pluribus session because they took audience questions and someone you know someone asked when are we going to see season two of pluribus and he's like well we're literally right in the middle of writing it now it's going to be it's not going to be next year it's not going to be you know and he's like don't don't but patience is going to have to be applied to the future pluribus is all I can say.

54:53Because it's a big challenge writing these episodes. And you're like, yeah, of course it is because they're brilliant. You're like, God damn it, Vince, write faster. Yeah, basically. Be patient. Vince has asked for patience and I think that we should give it to him. Okay. Well, there may well be other news before we air, but unfortunately we are recording this on a Wednesday and there has been no other news at this point. I think that's quite a lot of good news though. There we go. Yeah, Boyd, he carried the news section, I've got to be honest with you. Well, no, I think we all wanted to know about the God of War stuff.

55:19Yeah, I mean, that's vital. Okay, shall we move on to this week's reviews? And first up, we have the return of Prime Video's dadcore line-up as Cross comes back for season two. And this is the show that sees Aldous Hodge as Detective Alex Cross, the star of James Patterson's hugely popular crime novels. Although, as noted in the first season, while this takes place sort of canonically after the first Cross novel, Along Came a Spider, it is an all-new story with all new cases. It is not based on any of Patterson's novels directly, and that continues with season two because showrunner Ben Watkins has kind of updated the character for the modern era, updated the context and kind of chatted his own course with this.

55:56So, in this second season, Cross teams up with FBI agent Kayla Craig to find out who's trying to kill Matthew Lillard as a pair of killers, one of which is played by the expanse's Amos Burton, Wes Chatham himself. They are targeting sex traffickers and cutting their fingers off, which honestly doesn't sound that unreasonable. Steph, this is crime. You are the editor of Crim and Her magazine. did you like this or did it make you cross um no i i i didn't watch season one of cross call yourself a crime fan well yes i don't know what i was doing obviously i should have been watching it but i didn't um i as we talked earlier as we said earlier they do deliver a bit of a sizzle reel which helps you in no way at all uh know what happened yeah so i did read a little bit about what happened so i kind of know the first thing i'd like to say about this is i don't think that there is an actor alive that can wear a light knit quite as impeccably as Aldous Hodge because the number of light knits in this series is astounding and he is obviously an incredibly handsome man.

57:04So whilst I found that quite distracting, I also very much enjoyed the content of this. I'm wearing quite a light knit today, you'll notice, but not as well as Aldous hodge oh sweetie you're so pretty right anyway what i really loved about this it felt incredibly timely because basically i'm not giving away any secrets because you've already said it's sex trafficking you kind of this this female descends on what can only be described as epstein island yeah yeah okay so it starts starts off and this woman is uh rescuing people from epstein island and there's lots of horrendous men there and young women on there.

57:44And it just feels incredibly timely, doesn't it? If you are in any way versed in Epstein, I mean, who you can't really get away from, Epstein, and everything that's been going on with that. So it dives in and there's some pretty gruesome, some pretty gruesome removing of things that happens in that first. You know, again, I don't want to give it away. I mean, I've already done it, but it's fine. You just said it. What did you say? I've said they're cutting people's fingers off, so it's fine. They chop off his fingers. When they cut off that guy's fingers, it's really like, isn't it? It's a really, yeah, anyway.

58:16I really liked it. I love Aldous Hodge's obviously amazingness cross. He's, you know, he's wonderful. He's beautiful to look at. He's incredibly convincing. I love his relationship with his partner, John Sampson, played by Isaiah Mustafa. And yeah, I think one of the problems I've got is because I'm not familiar with the intense jeopardy from season one. so Kayla Craig's character is obviously working for the FBI and she's partnered with Alex Cross and she's got a secret and I can only assume that you know what that is Not a clue Not a clue and I don't even think this is due to the fact that I have almost no recollection of anything that happened in season one I don't think this is stuff that we're privy to Okay and obviously there's a relationship that Alex Cross has with someone That may have happened in season one but I don't remember it That's really interesting because I was like oh it's a shame because I don't know the backstory of all of these things, of all of these relationships.

59:10I know they know each other because she's in season one, but I can't remember really anything. Okay. My overall feeling of this is, yeah, it's good. It's not great. I wouldn't say it's great. Am I going to continue watching it? Probably not. But it's enjoyable. It's just kind of fine, I think, to use one of James's. Yeah. Yeah, it's just fine. It's not groundbreaking in any way. Boy, do you like a bit of dadcore? Yeah. I'm exactly the same as you I Watched the first season I just didn't remember At all and the Recap absolutely did not Refreshed Nothing exactly the recap Kind of summed up what I quite like about What I do like about the show Which is that it's got its own quite weird Vibe to it it's got kind of like It's quite out There in terms of its tone and it's Quite heightened and it's very Slick and like kind of vividly drawn it's fun to watch as it's going on and he is great as you say he's you know Aldous Hodge he's really good he's like he's hot in his jumper in his what did you call it?

1:00:19it's a light knit a light knit as in it's like a light like a like it's like a thin a thin it's a thin jumper it's a light knit you're wearing a light knit now I wanted to be clear in case this was sort of fashion lingo I wasn't familiar with and it just meant that it was light coloured or something oh no I'm not one with the fashion lingo No, it's just like a thin jumper. Yeah, let me just say, no need for any kind of jumper today in LA, because it's record-breaking. It's nearly 90 degrees today in LA. Oh, my God. Anyway. Thank you, boys. You horror. Thank you. There's also, as you say, it does feel very topical with its dealing with billionaires and their desires and what they do to exploit those desires.

1:00:59There's an interesting character played by Matthew Lillard of Scream fame, who was I think Matthew Lillard wasn't he one of the people that Quentin Tarantino dissed in his epic famous thing when he chose his favorite favorite films top 20 films of the millennium or whatever and he and he slagged off some various actors including Paul Dano Dano but in in the in the kind of everyone everyone was felt sorry for Paul Dano Dano and they all supported him and issued statements saying how horrible Quentin Tarantino was to him but in the fallout from that at the same time he did manage to slag of Matthew Lillard which was so random you know so I know, but he was really scathing towards Paul Dano.

1:01:34I think it was horrible. And Paul himself said, there was that quote that he said, like, I didn't feel like I needed to respond because I felt like the world stuck up for me. And I was like, yes, Paul, good for you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Anyway, I stick out for Matthew Lillard, who's good in this, and he's got an interesting character. So, and I like the whole, I think, yeah, it's got like, it's got like a slightly, slightly, not pushing it too fine a point, slightly twisted edge to it with the cutting off of the fingers and, you know, and the kind of crimes that he explores. it's quite you know it's quite it's a little bit over the top is what i think about it and i like that i like that it's trying to do something you know a bit different with let's face it source material that we've seen before in the various films and if you read the books etc it's it's it's got a little bit of ambition to be different and i that's what i appreciate most about it but i guarantee that if i carry on watching it and then in a year's time there's season three i will have forgotten all of this season as well but you know i enjoy it's one thing you enjoy it while it's on.

1:02:29Yeah, you enjoy it while it's on. It's a bit like, you know how the soundtrack is very kind of jazzy. It's sort of, it's, I don't know, it's just fine. Do you know, it's just fine. It's just like, it feels like after dinner viewing, it's just fine. It's not, I don't think, it's not groundbreaking. I don't think it is that ambitious actually, Boyd. What did you find ambitious about it? It's more ambitious is maybe the wrong word. I don't know, it's like, it's slightly more twisted and you know than you might think it would be I don't know maybe I'm laboring the point giving it too much credit but while it's on it's not like one of those flat you know network style procedurals put it that way it's not badly formulaic we've seen you know butterfly famously the butterfly incident at our live show with Russell T Davies intervened and I had to explain what the hell that fucking show was.

1:03:27That's such a generic, boring thing. This, although it seems like it might be a generic, boring thing, actually, while you're watching it, there's more to it than that. That's what I'm trying to say. James? Yeah, I mean, like I say, I watched all of season one. The A plot line, in which involved this serial killer, the fanboy, which was very dark and very twisted, I do remember some of that. There's a B plot, which involves Cross's dead wife and someone who may or may not have been involved in that. And even though that is in the previously on, I was like, I don't know what's happening and I can't remember how this series ended.

1:03:59So I was a little lost on that. But I was quite, because I did watch the whole of the first season, I must have enjoyed it because I watched it. So I was like, okay, I'm quite looking forward to this. I watched the first episode of the second season and was a bit like, huh. I was like, I felt like something was missing. So I watched the second one to try and, you know, okay, well, maybe, yeah. Got to get the second one and I was like... Huh. Same feeling. And I actually feel like this has maybe taken a dip from season one. and the reason I say that is because the kind of B-plot on this one seems to revolve heavily around the FBI agent who I'm uncharitably calling Budget Linda Cardellini, but only because I genuinely thought, Linda Cardellini is looking fantastic for her age, and then of course I realised it's a completely different actor.

1:04:49But anyway, just so, there's a, I don't want to spoil it, there's a kind of conspiracy-type subplot involving her character which just seems so over the top and forced. At this stage, at the beginning, I was just like, I'm just not sure I'm buying it. I'm not sure I'm buying this particular subplot. And given that the main plot, don't get me wrong, Wes Chatham is amazing and I'd watch him in anything and that instantly had my attention because he's in the first scene. But I just thought I don't... From the expanse. From the expanse, that's right, yeah. But I just couldn't bring myself to be interested enough.

1:05:25And so I genuinely feel like, much as I enjoy a bit of dadcore and much as I enjoyed, apparently, the first season of this, I don't think I'm going to watch this second season. I think it speaks volumes that neither of you can remember what happened in the first season. And the whole point of getting a second season is because the first season is so compelling that you're so attached to the storyline of those characters that you really need it to move on and you want to know what's happened to them. And you two, frankly, couldn't give a shit. That's true. Do you know what stuck out for me, though?

1:05:52What? There's a random bit at the beginning of this first episode where after, you know, the prologue where a crime has been committed, they launch into the Bad Sisters theme tune. Did you notice this? So it's the PJ Harvey cover of Who By Fire, Leonard Cohen's Who By Fire. I think it's the PJ Harvey version, which was recorded, if I recall correctly, specifically for Bad Sisters. And it plays at the beginning. I was like, what the fuck is happening? Is someone watching Bad Sisters? But no, it's just playing. Maybe it's a different cover, I don't know. But that really threw me. I feel a bit like if you don't find out what happens to Cross are you going to care?

1:06:30No Yeah You're not going to care are you? And I want to care but I don't Yeah He is just a pretty face in this show unfortunately and a pretty body Yeah So watch it or don't watch it or binge season one and two back to back for a double cross But you know if you don't want to do that that's absolutely fine because it comes to Prime Video when Boydie? Wednesday the 11th of February 2026 Okay. Moving on, we have Betrayal on ITV, which sees Sean Evans as John Hughes, a maverick MI5 officer who starts the show, frankly, getting brains splattered all over him. And his day generally goes downhill from there.

1:07:08So, Boydie, does this security services thriller have brains or are the only ones on display on Sean Evans' face? I am in the pocket of Big Betrayal because I did host... Are you? Am I going to have to pivot to Steph? Am I going to pivot to Steph? You might have to pivot to Steph. Sorry. You're up. Okay, I'm going to make a claim about this show and you and ITV, okay? I think... So specifically, me and ITV or you and ITV like you and drama? James and ITV. Okay, so I think... I enjoyed this show. Yeah. I think if this show was on Netflix, you would enjoy this show. I really do. It would have a bigger budget.

1:07:47But I think because it's on ITV, he's going to be disparaging about it, right? But when I started watching this, I was thinking about you, and I was thinking, he's going to be really horrible about this. But actually, this is a great show. And if it was through the Netflix lens, you would enjoy it, okay? So, Sean Evans plays this MI5 agent who is having marriage troubles, but he loves his job, and he's had this terrible thing happen at work, but he's not allowed to tell his wife anything about what happens. So that's causing even more troubles and you find out that he's had a checkered past. But his job, he's so married to his job that he wants to find out why this person whose brains were splattered all over his face in the first scene, not a spoiler, why that happened.

1:08:32And then he gets paired up. Well, actually, it's a handover, isn't it? There's a handover. He needs to hand over his case because they want him to take a bit of gardening leave. And with a very attractive other agent. And then it all kind of kicks off from there. I really enjoy Sean Evans I think he's great in this role it's exciting you know it's kind of very enticing because you really want to know I'm not there's this do you know what I've got I'm going to pick something out which really I didn't understand why they had it in one of the first scenes he goes into a toilet with some and I'm really hoping it's just not insane product placement he goes into the toilet with some anusol hemorrhoid cream right and I was like what the hell and you and there's a literally a shot of him holding the anusole so you can see it and then later on he has a conversation with his wife and she's like you really need to make an appointment to make sure it's not just piles and then it's not addressed again and I was like what the it just seems so odd okay go on exclusive reveal having hosted the q a with the writer david aldridge and the cast that yeah um having having piles is a little subplot, if you like.

1:09:51I could say with full confidence, because I asked him, I proed him about the use of the storyline. Proed, nice. The piles storyline. And he was like, yeah, it is mentioned, it's going to be mentioned throughout the series. And there was thought of it being, you know, just because she's a GP, his wife, Romula Gary's character. And so they're giving him an illness where she's annoyed with him for not checking out and men don't this is the thing about men isn't it of his age our age my age even older of putting off dealing with medical issues you have so that's kind of what it's about it's about his age and his issues but i have to say there's never been as many mentions of piles not only in the in a show a drama but also in a q a that i've hosted in history but there were it was fully discussed i mean so i have to question a little bit whether the B-plot is about piles.

1:10:41I have to question a show, but I still really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I loved the two female leads in it. I thought it was interesting enough to want me to keep watching it. But crucially, I think, if it was on Netflix, I hate to say this, I think I would have liked it more. I think it was packaged. But, I mean, you say, we've talked about this quite a lot, it would have a different sheen to it. Yes. Because Netflix stuff does have a feel to it, in the same way that Apple shows have a feel to it. it would feel more expensive. Weirdly, for me, the only time in this entire show I bumped on the budget, weirdly, was the brain incident.

1:11:15I was unconvinced by the grey matter. Unconvincing brains. That's my main criticism of it. I'm not buying that. I'm not buying the fake brains. Sorry. But other than that, I quite enjoyed it. It was decent. I quite like a sort of security services drama. He's a shit security services officer, it has to be said. and he's kind of on disciplinary measures, not crucially for being a maverick, but for just being a bit bad, which I thought was quite fun. The only thing that I bump on, which I often do, is when people just do things that don't ring true, that no one would ever do, or I don't think they would ever do, or I would certainly never do.

1:11:57Like, so for example, he is having issues with his wife who doesn't trust him. That is not helped by the fact that he has signed the Official Secrets Act and literally cannot tell her anything and has form in being, you know, a problematic husband. But then little things like he gets stuck up north for the night and has to spend the night in a room with someone else. No problems there. But doesn't call her to tell her he's not coming back. It's like, mate, you were in marriage counselling yesterday. Do you not think you are a phone call or a text or a voicemail? Something. I don't believe for one second it wouldn't have crossed his mind.

1:12:26Okay, but, well, especially not because he looks at his phone before he goes to sleep and sees that she's really pissed off with him. but I think he obviously has I think one of the themes Do you think it's the hemorrhoids? Is that the reason? No, I think he has a problem He's preoccupied He has a problem with what he perceives as being controlled in some way like he doesn't want to go to the marriage counselling he doesn't want to be controlled by his bosses he does have a little bit of an issue with controlling women you can see with his he has a really tense conversation with one of his bosses where he's left her quite a vicious voicemail and she says you just can't do that so I think he would do that his character would do that that's very believable because frankly he's a little bit of an arsehole he is yes he is and he is a bit of a beller yeah that's the point yeah i think i think that you know him we talked about him sharing the hotel room and not telling us what it's all it's all part of the character that is that yeah he's kind of self-absorbed yeah he does not answer to anyone that's what yeah i think what's in yeah what's interesting is you're saying obviously he can't he signed the official secret said he can't tell about the details of his job but it's like the show's all about what is it like what is the reality of that like you know it's all very well saying it in theory and her obviously acknowledging the fact of course she's not gonna she's not expecting him to tell her the details of the various villains he's dealing with or why there was blood splattered on his face or what you know but she's not stupid but at the same time the day-to-day grind of being married to someone with that job is really clever.

1:13:58I think it's a really clever, interesting idea. And more than that, I think the fact that this hasn't got the slick Netflix sheen to it, or Apple sheen to it, is kind of appropriate in this story because I think it's looking at the gritty underside, if you like, of a job being a spy, effectively. It's not all glamour and James Bond. It's like the anti-James Bond series. It's like he's such a it's just a normal bit of a bellend self-absorbed Yeah, but clearly kind of loves his job in a way and yet gets really annoyed when when people don't believe what he's telling them His boss bosses and he butts up against his bosses and all of that I thought I think the main thing about is it feels really authentic As a different and in fact they the guy called Gordon Carrera who has the does the rest is class of our podcast Who's an expert on this stuff?

1:14:47Espionage the realities of it the day-to-day realities of it he was a big consultant on the show and and i think it really it really works that it's not trying to be flashy and you know um but i think for i think the visual style of it absolutely matches the content and what it's trying to do which is be more gritty and real about all of this this whole world and i think it works very well on that basis i think ron le gary and him sean evans are really good really you totally believe they're in in this absolutely um kind not hellish is too strong but deeply flawed yeah yeah deeply flawed marriage particularly for her point of view she's fucking furious with him and you know you would be even though you know that he can't he i think he's kind of using his job and using the fact that he has to be secretive to to be annoying with her in their actual day-to-day relationship and that's what kind of makes it gives it that edge i think because there are parts where we know as the audience he absolutely could tell her because the thing that has happened is either off book therefore or not technically part of his job or something.

1:15:45He could absolutely give her some information and yet he's hiding behind the fact that he's, oh, it's so secret, I can't tell you, just to be a twine. Yeah, he doesn't want to tell her anything and yeah, he's an arsehole. Right. Yeah. Raging Bella. I quite enjoyed it though. Oh, I'm pleased. I'm pleased. But would you have enjoyed it more if it had the Netflix sheen? I think you would because I would and I hate to see it. Do you know what? I hate to say, I know what Boyd means. I do think that the low fineness is part of the deliberate aesthetic here, and I actually think it works. This isn't the night agent, you know what I mean?

1:16:18I don't think it wants to be. It wants to show you almost the crushing mundanity of working for the security services. And actually, I think that's a really... It's not trying to be spooks. It's a very different thing. And I actually think that works. Whereas, but if you look at something like, and I should say there are episodes of this available on the screen, you remember Criminal Record with Kush Jumbo and David Cavaldy? and Peter Capaldi, that has that kind of slightly sort of like grubby, British, inner city, council estate-y type-y crime drama, but still has the apple sheen to it. So it shows you can have both.

1:16:54You can have lo-fi gritty, but also with all the money in the world. Yeah, it's like when they get on the train to go to Stockport, you're like, oh, that looks shit. Do you know, you're just going to go meet someone in a car park in Stockport, and you're like, oh, this isn't fun. It legitimately does feel like a Stockport car park. Yeah, it does. Criminal Record Season 2 coming soon, by the way. It is indeed, yes. And you can watch the first six episodes because they're up there. Just saying. Oh, okay. I don't have that special access. Well, it's because you're not special. I know. Who can I call?

1:17:24Ghostbusters. Right. I'll try and put a word in for you. Thank you. Betrayal. ITVM. It's on now, isn't it? Yeah, it started yesterday, Sunday the 8th, and then continues today, Monday the 9th, if you're listening to this on the day it comes out, which, why wouldn't you? as a pilot subscriber. Be sure to tune in. Sundays and Mondays for the next two weeks. Yeah. Be sure to tune in to find out how the hemorrhoid subplot resolved. Exactly. Finally this week, we have Small Profits on BBC Two. Written, created, directed, and co-starring one Mackenzie Crook, which sees Pierce Quigley as a slightly weird guy who works in a DIY store whose girlfriend disappeared some years ago.

1:18:04Naturally, he deals with this in a normal, well-adjusted way by turning to alchemy and the forbidden art of homunculus animation. Because, of course, he does. Now, Boydie, what in the name of Great Odin's Raven is going on in this show? Yeah, good question. I'm intrigued, by the way, Steph, I remember you said in the build-up to this week's episode of the Pilot TV podcast, you'd watched an entire series of something. Was it this? Was that this? It's this. Or it's this? I've watched all six episodes. Can I ask a question? Yes. Did you watch The Detectorists? no because like that's that's you know a glimpse into the mind of mackenzie crook i wondered if the crookiverse was very much your wavelength no no it isn't yeah well that's that's the point to start with it yeah so this is mackenzie crook creator creator of the detectorist which was let's face it a kind of gentle charming subtle um slightly melancholy of tone kind of comedy-ish series about i think i didn't watch the detectress because i was deep in child rearing and that's the reason i missed it because it was when base was really small that's why that's the only reason i mean right a lot of people absolutely love the detector detectorist because of its tonal kind of quality and it's not trying to be i mean talk about not being flashy i mean this is like you know you you i think this you wouldn't even get this on netflix or apple tv or whatever it's so kind of quirky and and mackenzie crooks definitely got a um a unique kind of tone to his stuff to to that and this show and i think in this show he almost takes it further because of the fact that um it does end up dealing with homunculi magical spirit beings that can predict the future apparently anyway um as you said as james said pierce quigley is this guy who's clearly in mourning for the fact that his partner disappeared years ago anyway he seems to be you know kind of like still in mourning for the disappearance of his wife years previously and he keeps seems to be keeping a room christmasy with a christmasy vibe as if to kind of honor her memory or something like that anyway and this definitely definitely follows in the tonal footsteps of detectress but i think is even possibly even more kind of you know um melancholy charming weird with a but with an incredible cast so on top of um piz quigley is as the main guy you've also got the fact that his dad is played by michael palin you know absolute living legend of a comedy genius and fantastic actor who and his memory is faltering and um he he's the one who brings out the idea of these homunculi things and has a recipe involving gallons of water etc that's happening there that's bizarre um and then there's um uh sophie willan from am i was not normal is there as the neighbor with john pointing from big boys as well um paul k is in it paul k from afterlife is in it as a as a key character um i found it very i i kind of enjoyed it i found it i i i do love mackenzie crook and i wasn't a massive fan of detective it's not as big a fan as some a lot of TV critics were.

1:21:14It went down very well. I think it won. We're certainly nominated for BAFTAs if not winning them. I like the fact that it is bizarre and weird and doing something completely strange. Taking pictures, sorry. James is just taking photos of, I don't know, of us. So I enjoyed it, but I didn't feel the need. So I'm intrigued. I didn't feel the immediate need to carry on watching the rest of the series. But you did, Steph, and I'm intrigued to know why. So I did enjoy it i did like it and i may well carry on watching it when i've got when i find the time but it's so it's so kind of um deeply deeply weird and weird yeah that but i kind of like that about it i get it okay so i as i as we've just said i ended up watching all six episodes of this and i watched the first episode and i was like mostly because i was like i need to know whether he's going to make these bloody homunculi, right?

1:22:11I need to know what happens. And from the second episode, I was so drawn in, I just, then I went on and watched all six. So for me, this has got several strands to it, which are really compelling. His girlfriend, Clea, has been missing for seven years, okay? He is still in the house that they lived together. And as you said, Boyd, there is a room in the house that he keeps, which has got Christmas stuff on it, and it's revealed why he keeps his house in it. The house is full of boxes, and it's revealed why. So there's slow reveals of why he's got this seemingly odd existence. He also works in a DIY shop where he shows little to no respect for his boss, played by Mackenzie Crook, whose seemingly his only function as a boss is to ask people, which I just found this so hilarious, to ask people if they'd taken their breaks.

1:23:06and if like me you frequent like hardware shops you know Dunham, B &M, all of those You frequent hardware shops? Yeah because I like to have a little mooch around. All you hear all the time This is all coming clear now. All you hear all the time is someone going have you been on your break? Are you going on your break? And so I found just that the fact that that's the running joke throughout the whole thing really funny and he kind of gets this alliance with another shop worker played by Lauren Patel who plays Casey and this friendship grows between him and Casey which is beautiful it's really beautiful and they both obviously she has some issues obviously he's got his own issues and I think this is a truly I it's rare you find some something that is so truly original that it really captivates your attention and for me that's what this is the way that Mackenzie Crook has chosen through humor to deal with this intense grief that this person's feeling because they have no understanding of what's happened to Cleo.

1:24:11And it's, you know, to his very core, you can feel the pain. And he's really sarcastic. And he, you know, sort of disparaging of everyone around him. It just, it drew me in so much. And I fell completely in love with him. And he has these beautiful relationships with these people around him that are subtle relationships but they're powerful and it was such an original concept i don't i can't even be yet begin to think where mackenzie crook got this and then there is again i'm not i don't not going to spoil it there is a kind of otherworldly quality to him to this whole thing with the homunculi which are you know what are small profits these little people that you grow in jars that will give you the answers to the questions you seek i really enjoyed that because it's so bizarre.

1:25:00You haven't, I've not seen anything like this in kind of a British comedy format. And I thought it was absolutely wonderful. And let me just say, if you go get to the end of the six episodes, you'll be so pleased. You feel completely full. The comedy in it is very British, I would say. It's a very British comedy and something that I think British audiences will really enjoy and maybe other audiences will be like, oh, this is too weird for me. but it 100 % wasn't too weird for me and I loved every minute of it. You're absolutely right. I think, yeah, I think I love the scenes in the DIY shop and the scenes depicting, showing us his personality and I do really like the vibe of it and I think I will carry on watching it.

1:25:44I totally get, I think it's brilliant that you carried on watching all of it, yeah, because I think it is a lovely kind of very British, very McKenzie crook show that I want to get behind. So yes, and over to James. It was 100 % too weird for me. Why? Yeah. It's just, it's very quirky. It's very odd. And certainly at the beginning, it's quite slight because it's just him going to work in a DIY store and then wandering around and then spinning tall tales for customers, which to be fair, I quite enjoyed. He's talking about mixing paint and new colors with one guy. It's genuinely very funny. He just goes on these incredibly, like, wildly improbable tales.

1:26:20And then you wait until the customer's just like, you're a mentalist and walks off. And he does that a few times. That's quite fun. But you're getting through the first, I'm like, I don't know where this show is going or what it's about. And then you come into like the whole monkey life thing. And I'm like, okay, if you'd pinned me down, I would never have guessed that this is where this was going. And I was just like, this is very quirky. It's very, very, it's very peculiar. It's a very peculiar show. You say peculiar. I think it's utterly original. I mean, it is in that I've never seen anything like it.

1:26:53You really need to watch episode two. By episode two, you'll fall in love with it. Well, the thing is, barring the conversations she had with a couple of the customers, the humour didn't really resonate with me, so I didn't find it very funny. So without the kind of like impetus of a plot, you know, like if one of them had hemorrhoids and I needed to know what happened, then perhaps I would have stuck with it. But, you know what I mean, without the plot to carry me, and because the humour doesn't really gel with me, I was like, I don't know that there's much here for me because I don't really care that much what's going on and I am unamused.

1:27:24I'm really disappointed I'm going to tell you exactly what after this podcast I'm going to tell you exactly what happened because what else is really good is that by the end of it it leaves something open which is really exciting because I hope that there is another season of this because I loved it so much but I think come to this with a real open mind and knowing that it is not a traditional British comedy it is really quirky but come to it thinking god this this is going to be really original something i've never seen before the concept is is original and mackenzie crook has done something very special here quirky low-stakes british comedies are definitely not my thing as a rule so don't take the fact that i'd enjoy it as a you know a ringing indictment yeah quirky comedy can often um end up being irritating and twee and again being you know verging on twee and kind of a bit quirky for quirky's sake and i I felt that a little bit as I was watching the first episode, but by the end of the first episode and bearing in mind what you've, that you've seen the whole thing, Stefan, what you're saying about it, I am convinced that it's definitely worth carrying on with.

1:28:31And I think the quirk, it feels authentic and, and, and, you know, like part of the whole DNA of the show, rather than saying that's been slapped on, you know, for the sake of it. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Like even just some kind of John Poyting's character, his, as the irritated neighbor, just his, his function in this is just to be perpetually annoyed. but so British that he can't really come out and say what he's really thinking. And even that level of frustration, I found it very amusing. I mean, a lot of it happens in a cul-de-sac, which is where he lives. It's very British, but please do not close your mind to this show because you'll be missing something special, is what I'd say.

1:29:08James? Oh, James is going to close his mind to it, but no one cares. I'm going to tell him what happens. I'm going to tell him what happens. I'm going to re-watch Deep Space Nine instead. small profits then which airs on BBC2 when pointy today Monday the 9th of February 10 o 'clock 2026 and what else is out this week that is the question oh the artful dodger it's back series 2 who knew who knew who knew indeed Tuesday that's on Tuesday as we've mentioned how to get to heaven from Belfast lands on Netflix on Thursday and we're going to be covering it on Thursday on this week's pilot plus and then of course there's love story colon John F.

1:29:46Kennedy Jr. ampersand Carolyn Bessette snappily titled and that's on Disney Plus and that airs on Friday. Absolutely. And I had discussion with Steph about how the extent to which British people know that story of JFK Jr. That was hilarious to me. Sorry, carry on boy. I can really know the story. I don't know the story. What? I think a lot of British people don't. This is a massive part of history. Like the Kennedys. Do you not know political history? I know, but that element of the Kennedy story, I didn't know. It's interesting. But this is, by the way, can you believe it, another Ryan Murphy production.

1:30:22To be fair, he's not that creatively involved. I don't think he's written or directed it, but it is part of his empire. So the Ryan Murphy machine continues apace, is what we should say. All right, then what is our pick of the week? Oh, small profits, hands down. It's betrayal for me. That is a betrayal. A betrayal of Steph? I think, Boyd, if you watched six episodes of Small Profits, it would have been Small Profits. Possibly. You're possibly right. I acknowledge that. I think you would enjoy the unconventional friendship and how much it... Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I really do. I just really like James' impersonation of Alan Partridge just now when he's talking about you.

1:31:03My pick of the week, oh God, that's hard. It's either Betrayal or Cross. It's probably Betrayal. I think it's Betrayal. an ITV drama I think it's oh my god you love ITV now that's it yeah you're ITV's bitch James and ITV sitting in a tree wow S-T-R-E-A-M-I-N-G or something anyway right can I just say one more thing about what's on this week yes Becoming Victoria Wood which is this feature length documentary on You and Girl Thursday 9 o 'clock about Victoria Wood the woman the legend which includes Jessica Barden the actress doing dramatised readings of her own material and stuff it's really good so yeah I just wanted to mention that thanks thank you Poydie now Steph yes the night agent returns next week and so does Kay coincidence I don't think so no coincidence there although I do love the night agent I'm having my tonsils out guys you are having your tonsils out yeah everyone tells me it's absolutely well yeah apparently they don't do it very much as an adult but I had tonsillitis eight times last year eight times the year before and eight times the year before that so they've got to come out.

1:32:11That's quite consistent. Yeah, it's too much and they're coming out and everyone tells me it's absolutely horrendous and I have to have two weeks off. Wow. Yeah. Also, apparently it can alter your voice. So you're welcome back. Hello, it's Steph Sealand. I'm back on a podcast. Which may be welcome to some people. Welcome news, I don't know. But, yeah. Who knows? But, in great news, guys, beloved Gabby. My beloved Gabby, also known as Kay. It's very confusing when you call that that. Well, it isn't for the beloved listeners who watch Shrinking. Kay will be back for two weeks. Two whole weeks of Kay.

1:32:45Two whole weeks starting, I believe, with this week's Pilot Plus. Starting with Pilot Plus. Starting with this week's Pilot Plus. Kay will be back. Maybe continue the Star Trek chat then. Oh, Jesus, don't. How exciting is that? What else is out next week? 56 Days lands on Prime. The last thing he told me comes back to Apple. Exciting times will be had by all. We are also going to have Jennifer Garner on this very podcast talking to Boyd for that show but I don't know if that's going to be on next week's episode or the week after so you have to wait and see isn't that exciting Boyd are you off to the beach is that what's happening yeah I'm going to literally I need to get breakfast frankly if you really want to know I'm absolutely starving and then I'm going to stroll along the beach oh have a lovely time please remember to get me a souvenir gift yes and some kind of foundation thermos flask for me please alright well Boyd enjoy the beach I hope you have a good time Boyd can you just stay on for five minutes not even five minutes like a minute because I want to tell you what happens in Small Profits.

1:33:41I don't know. But he's going to watch it. What? Oh, I thought you were going to watch it. Okay, can you watch it so we can talk about it, please? All right, yeah. Thank you. We can talk about it on Pilot Plus. When you return, it sounded a bit like this. Hello, Steph Seaman. Oh, don't. God. Okay. An unrecognisable... I'm very excited to hear what sound... Maybe you'll be inexplicably scouse when you return. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, I look forward to finding out. It's going to be fun. That is the Pilot TV podcast. We hope you enjoyed it in some degree. please do feel free to head over to Apple Podcasts or any platform of your choice and leave us a 5 Star Trek rating if only for that explainer that we had earlier on and please do follow us on the social medias at Pilot TV Pod at Boyd Hilton at Steph Sealand at James C.

1:34:22Dyer at Kay Ribeiro and remember the postbag exists and it is pilotTV at Empire Magazine dot com alright we'll be back in your ears on Thursday when among other things you will witness the triumphant return of one Kate Ribeiro it is Kate isn't it Kate Ribeiro it's Kate Kate Ribeiro. Kate Ribeiro. Katie Ribeiro. Katie Rodrigo. Katie Rob Rereau. Kate Ribeiro. Right, that's right. Who can forget Kate? I've missed her. I've missed her too. Pilot out.