Foundation Season 3 Spoiler Special. ft. Taylor Swift (sort of)

28:03And so, this is really nerdy, psychohistory was built on the society of Trantor itself, and it was built on all the levels and interconnected societies of Trantor. So, for example, when we go to the Maiko, what's it? Yeah, home of the inheritance cult. Yeah, that was one society, and then there was others, and then there was the palace, and then there's this and that and the other. So he used Trantor itself to model psycho history and then applied it to the whole universe. That's also why he's on Trantor at the beginning of the entire series. And we also find out in the series that Damerizel let him use her brain or something like that.

28:41Well, yeah. So basically she's been helping him, but then her motivation is always the preservation of Empire. And she believed that he was Empire's best chance to continue. Exactly. And so she had to essentially trick the Cleons into letting him go. Into letting him live. But also, she's in that slightly difficult position where that is technically treason as well. So she's in a really gray area of her programming. So she kind of has to let psychohistory exist and even foundation exist. But she also kind of has to have some kind of control of it so she can ensure the continuation of the dynasty, which as we saw this season maybe was not entirely nice.

29:19No. What I love about Demozel is that she obviously is a robot, but she's like air-gapped. She's completely cut off from the network. So when Cleon essentially put that chip in her, which gives her that motivational imperative to protect the dynasty, she is severed. She can't clasp with other machines, so she thinks she's the only one. But crucially, she can't get on the network, so she doesn't have that omniscience that I think machines often have in this world, because they can see everything. And she can only really see what her spies tell her. So she's limited, which is why she doesn't realize that fucking Brother Dusk is building the Death Star.

29:50So, you know, that must have taken a few hundred million workers and some money. Not very good at her job, is she? There's a bit where he basically speaks to her about it and points out all the reasons why she should have known about it. And she's like, but I didn't. And they're like, well, that's it sorted then. So she doesn't. But it brings to the fact that at the end of the season, the robots that are on the moon that we see Earth, which is very sandy, by the way. And one of them is Calais. Yeah. But they say, oh we don't Demoiselle can't clasp no she can't because she's air gapped so it's not her reaching out obviously it's the skull from the scepter that's actually reaching out to them but it's interesting a lot of people are wondering whether because there's Calais and Calais obviously if we remember she's the one who gave Harry his clone body and she's turned up a number of times whether it be she's connected to the second foundation she's connected to the library she's connected to the machines but that kind of non-human looking machine with her lots of people are talking about is that another Harry?

30:49I have no idea why it would be, but... Do you know who voices that non-human machine? Lee Pace. Oh, really? That's good knowledge. I didn't know that. Another Cleon. Yeah. Robo-Cleon. Because original Cleon, it wouldn't be out of character for him to ensure his own survival by more than one means. That's interesting. That would be very cool. That would be kind of cool. I also know that, again, Goya no longer attached to the production has become incredibly indiscreet in his interviews. But he was saying season six was going to be set entirely on Earth and the moon. Cool. And he was saying Earth is fucked.

31:25Like it's like Fallout. And it's medieval. They've regressed to a medieval society and the moon is where the machines are. The robots are on the moon. Well, because it's in season one when Gil's dad mentions Earth, but it's like a myth. Like it's like, you know, we don't know Earth. It's a lost planet. They don't know where it is. Demerizel does, or Daniil did in the books. Yeah, Daniil who, and we've, because we find out that's one of her sort of Noms de Plume. Indeed. And that's the inheritance messiah, Daniil, isn't it? And that's when he, like, Cleon realises that when they're talking to him that Demozel is essentially this messiah they've been waiting for.

31:57And when that fanatic bloke with the gamer tag for a name, what was his name? Sun God 17. That's Sun God 18 or something. Jesus Christ. It's like, what's it? It's Noobmeister 13. Noobmeister 66. 16 to 69. Hello. It's a really weird voice that he has. I think he got cast just on the voice alone. I think he might have done, yeah. Yeah, that's quite a scene. He's really interesting in that when he wants to sacrifice all the truth of that religion just so he can keep being the leader of that religion, which I think, again, is the whole commentary of the whole foundation, which is like, if humans weren't dickheads, then we'd be okay.

32:36But everyone has their own stuff that they want to do, which is why, again, the robots are the real heroes after all. Well, they are in many ways, aren't they? And it feels like they're going to be pulled into this conflict at this point, which I think they allude to, Kalei alludes to that. Well, I mean, but they, okay, we're maybe not calling it the three laws of robotics or more in this show, but they still exist. The zeroth law is they have to ensure the survival of humanity. That still governs them. So even if they don't talk about it in those terms, even if they don't voice it, they have talked about that as a concept already in this show.

33:11So I think that would seem to come into it. But then that puts them on the side of very much of the psychohistory. They have to go with the Selden plan and try and shorten the Dark Ages and save civilization. Well, so the robots, Callie, who is a robot, has helped Harry every step of the way. He gave him, she gave him a whole new body. So they're definitely on the side of foundation, I think. But there's one thing I just want to come back to, right? because, you know, old Harry, not hollow Harry, speaks about all the crises that are about to happen. And one thing he mentions is the Invictus. So it's a ship that we haven't really seen, but we saw in the season before that was that ship.

33:56Was the Invictus the one from season one? Was it season one? You know, the dreadnought that they find. Yeah, the one that was floating in the... Yeah, in Event Horizon. Yeah, in Event Horizon. And your man, her nice boyfriend at that point went aboard, right? I think that's the one, isn't it? Yeah. But anyway, it's because it's so much knowledge. Invictus. The Invictus is an ancient legendary Imperial Altair-class warship, the Pride of the Empress. Yeah, so it was the one from season one. Season one. Yeah. So Harry mentions that again, and looking back at the Invictus, one thing that was scrolled in blood on one of their machines was EXO.

34:29Okay. Which means kind of out, like outside or something like that. And then if you pause and you look at the map that old Harry is showing Gale, they have two galaxies Andromeda galaxy which is the one that's right beside the Milky Way which is where we're from is that hinting that the real villain the real outlier is non-human is from another galaxy and therefore psychohistory would not be able to apply at all so maybe the robots help the humans because that's all they're about but really another civilization is similar to a mule but on a much bigger scale ooh I mean I like it mind blown yep but Isaac Asimov never mentions that obviously I don't remember that no maybe I missed one of the later books because this I think this season you could argue has been the closest to the books of the others because the Mule novella I think is the closest thing Asimov came to an actual you know story so I think hey it's true so I think a lot of that kind of human intrigue which let's be honest he doesn't really specialise in you know is in that novella and I think therefore makes it into this series which I think sometimes why this series feels more streamlined and propulsive to me.

35:38Like it feels more like a traditional narrative story arc whereas seasons one and two while I love them are in large part vibes. Yeah. Yeah. Because in season three there is one clear antagonist. Yes. The mule. Which is unusual for Foundation because it's not normally that sort of clear cut it's much more ambiguous. Which is so weird why Foundation is so good because you watch season one and season two and you're like oh somebody's nice and then suddenly they're a villain. Yeah. Like the Brother Day last season was the worst guy but at the beginning you were kind of like he's not that bad can we then speak about Brother Knight or Brother what's he called Darkness I think Brother Darkness who's fulfilled the psychohistoric prophecy in a very literal way that darkness would replace the empire and he's like yeah I'll take that name that's me give me a black robe I'm in it get rid of these other thrones and clear this up will you it's going to be a period of time when it's led by barbarism stuff like that and you now have an emperor that has done just in the space of 30 minutes some of the most barbaric acts possible.

36:37He literally had dead bodies raining down behind him whilst running away with a baby that he was going to set on fire. That's quite a moment, isn't it? It's insane. And he is just... And I was speaking earlier about the fact that, again, Foundation's so good because you see these hints of things happening. And at one point, Brother Darkness, Brother Darkness, is sitting there. It's in episode seven or something like that. And he sees a giraffe walk past. Yeah. And then it's never really mentioned again. That's part of Brother Dude's menagerie, isn't it? Yeah, but it's not real. Because when, I might be wrong, but he imagines seeing a giraffe walk past.

37:16No, I think it's a giraffe. Yeah, a giraffe does actually walk past. Because Brother Dude, as I'm calling him, as many people call him. I was going with the Big Lebowski. I mean, that's good too. Oh, that's good. Like, you know, his danus. El Deirino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing. You know, he keeps marmots and giraffes and hippos and shit just running around the palace because he's just fucking gone nuts, hasn't he? Okay. And I love his arc because the idea that he's coming to the end of his reign and he just gives no fucks anymore. But he's just gone completely, he's all into his psychedelics and whatnot.

37:45But he, going from a sort of feckless brother dude, finally is the first day that actually develops not just a conscience, but suddenly a sense of purpose and a passion. He believes he can save the universe and then it's all snatched away from him. It's a tragedy and I don't think, had he not been such an unrepentant c**ch for the first two seasons, that wouldn't hit quite as hard. Yeah, I think, you know, you compare that. It was as brutal as his own sentence on the girl who betrayed him. Oh, with the little finger twist. The little finger twist. Everyone you've ever met. And everyone they've ever met.

38:21Yeah, twice removed. There will be no degrees of Kevin Bacon or you, is what he's saying. Yeah, just brutal. I mean, he doesn't mess about. but going back to darkness there like what I think is interesting about the characters and Goya there's an excellent quote because there's a lot of Trump in darkness and when he talks about him this was Goya's quote about darkness he said I think it's truly a guy who the center obviously cannot hold and he knows he can't fix things but he can burn everything down and I would argue that there are people like that operating in power on earth today that have personality disorders and Dusk clearly has a personality disorder it's all personal for him a switch has been flipped and that's a bad person to have in charge of a weapon like that.

39:02That's 100 % correct, I think. If you contrast him to all the darknesses that we've seen before, all the dusks we've seen before, where they basically just walk very calmly into the fire. They're like, well, I've had my time, but essentially my time continues because he's also me. There's a sort of serenity to that, that this one, to be fair to him, with reason, doesn't have. These are different guys to me. We are not the same person anymore. the genetic drift is growing and growing and growing which in some ways doesn't make a lot of sense because you'd think now that they've stopped they've realized there was genetic drift they would have just cloned the most recent Cleon but whatever but now all of them are a bit weird aren't they?

39:45but all of them are weird in slightly different ways maybe Demersel thought Brother Dusk no Brother Morning Brother Early Day Dawn Dawn, Brother Dawn and you could tell at the beginning she really liked him and he was right and he was good and he was politically savvy also a math genius maybe her plan was he was going to be the one to clone but not anymore because Brother Darkness has messed it all up yep yes he has he does fucked up everything right what else have we got to talk about I'm going to refer to my little list here so okay Beta and Torrent space influencers yeah I mean I didn't see that coming these are your people They are, I mean, now that I am, of course, yes, I am an influencer.

40:31Content creator. I mean, I looked at them, I was like, yeah, good content, good content, guys. My God, but you know what? It's actually very relevant. Sorry, just for those who are not in the studio, James is currently wearing a shirt that is open to his waist right now. And my gold medallions are very fetching and tasteful. So you didn't actually like Taylor Swift, it's just you wanted her for the content. Oh, yeah, it's all about the content. All about the content. the nice thing about the influencer side is she's all about making people love her and then when you get to the end and she's actually the mule it's like layers yeah it's like who's big on Instagram I don't know Selena Gomez Selena Gomez right she's the Selena Gomez of galactic despots yeah and then turns out she's manipulating everyone to her own end I would like to withdraw the Selena Gomez comparison she seems lovely she does seem lovely she seems lovely is she controlling all of us is she controlling some people that couldn't be named who knows I thought the influencers thing was nice and it was a useful plot point but I think overall it was interesting that she's put herself in that position of she can walk into any room and people will like her straight away so I think that's kind of how they got away with it yeah and I enjoyed I enjoyed Peter Asbeck as the mule himself just because he's he's very good as a pirate he keeps getting cast as pirates but damn it it works yeah the first introductory scene where he makes Ralph Innocent who Zephyr Virellis the priestess with the red dress is his daughter by the way oh okay I didn't know that because obviously he has an unfortunate encounter with the mule at the very opening of the season which is a great sequence yeah I'm not going to wear rings but yeah he comes in he's kind of a bit crazy it's just him I think just him walking up against this whole army with his musician behind him is that it he just strolls up and then just makes them all do whatever he wants I have questions about how the mentalic abilities work line of sight, proximity things like that there's a little bit of hand waving there on how it works but sure who am I to judge?

42:44basically because one thing that I did think they made clear was that he can just completely control a person but it's easier just to change their head just to make them love him completely just to change their emotional response to him which means he doesn't have to make them do everything it's not so intensive exactly yes absolutely yeah and I thought that was a smart explanation it is although you would think in a lot of kind of magic and superhero systems that's more difficult to kind of fundamentally switch someone's do you know what I mean somebody's mental and emotional state that's a more difficult thing so it's interesting that it's kind of the other way around but I enjoyed that and I think it allows a little bit of it allows one person to be a real threat in a way that if you went with a traditional mind control thing it would be much more difficult yeah you know just this is completely off the subject that we're talking about but I do want to mention back to Taylor Swift yeah okay yeah tell me what do you love about Midnight which one is that never mind carry on I like those long we're not speaking about you know this sweets right there's one scene that stood out for me when brother day goes to mycogen and gets sweets from a vendor lady who I think might actually be have suffered from cuts to that script because there's an image of a priestess in the sun god 17 room and she definitely has the same kind of scarring as the merchant lady that sells sweets yes I think that could have been an interesting character because the way she was introduced was very interesting.

44:21However, I want to speak about the sweets. Okay. Which are the best sweets ever because they are every single flavor in the world. And the only thing is that means you can have one that's the best flavor you've ever tasted. And you'll never get it again. And you'll never get it again. So they're like Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans. Right. Without the earwax. Well, the first ever Bertie Botts Every Flavor because Marks and Spencer used to sell them. They did. For me, was a ketchup flavor. And then I never ate them again. So what happens if the flavor of it is just sewage? Yeah. I mean, that's not good really maybe they only do the good flavours in these sweets because honestly Bertie Bott's model is a very bad one it's a bad model it's just revel scaled up right because nobody likes the coffee ones and the orange ones are far too sweet so really you're trying to avoid those two to get to the good stuff I'm trying to I'm playing Russian roulette with the peanuts I hate peanuts especially if you had an allergy then it would be a particularly fun game that is a real Russian roulette yeah but Day's Flight was interesting because it's the most kind of initiative we've seen from a day in a little while, I feel like.

45:23I mean, yes, there was the kind of the religious pilgrimage day. That's right. Is that season one? That's the first season, yeah. Yeah, like episode seven or eight. Not that I paid attention to that one. But that was him like going and doing something for Empire and with a very specific, very clear, you know, political aim, quite frankly, to silence a piece of dissent against him personally and his brothers, of course. This is purely self-interest. It is purely, I don't want to be here anymore. I don't want to be stupid dusk and just pony around doing art or shit. And I just want out of this. I am done with this.

46:03And it's the most initiative we've seen from him. And it betrays a level of planning that I'm not sure the Big Lebowski day previously showed he was capable of. It kind of gives you, I think, some idea of the cunning and the cleverness of the Cleons. Yeah, and it's all done, I mean, you could say it's all done for love. Yeah. Well, it is in many ways, isn't it? It's still very selfish because he's literally a prostitute that he really wiped. I do think it's kind of love that, he would probably describe it as love, but I do think it's more about escape. Because the idea, isn't it, that her memory is supposed to be wiped after one night and then she goes away, but he has kept her on.

46:42And then obviously he reveals Demoiselle's true nature to her and then she makes the symbol and it all goes horribly wrong. But the fact, I thought it was interesting that once she's had her memory of him white, she wants nothing to do with him because she has a partner. And it's like, I mean, there was a real tragedy to the fact that his whole relationship with her has been essentially erased. Yeah. And she's no longer that person anymore. There's definitely an alternate universe where those three live happily. As a thrall. Yeah. Because he kind of proves himself, he sacrifices himself, he gets eaten by a bunch of bugs and she lets him escape.

47:15and he says, no, I'm going to go back because I'm actually, if anything, she's betraying her own religion there because she's saying, just leave. And he's like, no, there is a robot that can live right now. So it's nice to see that. And it's just one, it's always so nice when really good writers take characters that are absolute dickheads and slowly but surely you're kind of like, oh, you're not bad. You're pretty bad, but you're not that bad. You're not that bad. Yeah. And you also, when Demerizel's holding his head and stroking him you're like you've had a messed up life the season where Day is sleeping with Demersel oh my god that was upsetting his mum let's be honest yeah she raised him that's but it's also like it's just an interesting I mean there's no presumably moral content for sex in her mind right there's no she just I think sees it as pastoral care yeah I think that's exactly it I think she sees it as this is what this day needs from me so this is what we're going to do it's really icky to everybody else including other days let's be honest but it's what that one needs and it's interesting because the first day we met back in season one would never would never wouldn't have occurred to him and we're just again you're just seeing the drift I'm freaking loving that yeah that everyone is just like a little bit there's more escapes it was literally like last season one person tried to one of the empires tried to escape this season two of the empires kind of in many ways all three of them really they've all gone off the reservation in a big way is wild.

48:46I don't know if it's worth talking about the Merchant Foundation because I feel like it's kind of undercooked in the show. And it is something that exists in the books. It's this idea that there's, well, we kind of developed it more last time. There was a lot of the sort of foundation missionaries and then how that relates to foundation traders and the sort of the kind of blurring of the lines between those two. And now the traders are like, well, we're making all the money here. What the hell are we worried about a dictionary for? or an encyclopedia. And I think that it's kind of an interesting thing that did for me get a little bit lost this season.

49:20Like they introduced it in the first couple of episodes and then it just kind of got blurry. Because Demozel and Dawn at the beginning are going to collude with the traders to bring down First Foundation because they don't know about Second Foundation. And then the betrayal, obviously then he ends up hooking up with Gale who convinces him to blackmail that guy to do the enclosure to contain the mule but then she's betrayed him because that is entirely done to bring down Empire. It's just like, oh my God, everyone's a twat in this series. Yeah. The Merchant Prince is... There is definitely not that much exploration.

49:55I thought a very cool planet that's half cold and half warm. It wouldn't be that quick, though. There definitely would be a band that's nice. You would think, right, yeah. A Goldilocks zone. Exactly, yeah. They're really cool. And it also, I think, means that the Beta's boyfriend, influencer guy, he's tied into the story a little bit more because he's the nephew but I think it's what it's trying to do is the second season is very much right foundation is all about religion and spreading us through religion the second one is now we're in kind of money and using capitalism to spread the truth of foundation it was definitely something that they used as a plot point and kind of forgotten about it does feel like we've lost a little bit of that sense but again you got I think you got a bit in season one you certainly get in the books again that you know foundation starts as one planet and then it sort of becomes its own little empire and it kind of stops barbarism spreading in the areas it controls and we do get discussion this season of that's a foundation controlled planet that's foundation controlled space but we don't have any real idea of what that means right now and it's not entirely clear how fast or how far things are falling in empire Because you have little hints.

51:13So for example, when Brother Day meets Gale in the bar, Gale is speaking to him, they finish the conversation and Gale just disappears and you realize she was a hologram. And you still look at Empire's holograms and they're still that cool grainy stuff. That's kind of like the technology is still, Foundation's very clearly more technologically advanced. but we aren't it's something like Empire still has 6 ,000 planets Foundation has 800 planets Foundation has access to Whisper, ships Empire can only use those gates things and it's more showing us as opposed to us actually seeing the people living with that and I do wish that you got a better sense of the fact that Foundation is a real strong upstart of planetary alliance and empire is waning.

52:08But I guess that's because they focus so much on character. On character. And it's hard to complain about that. I think I just wanted somebody to have a hologram map of the galaxy in their office and a blue cloud over here and a red cloud over here to show us and them. Those things on YouTube that shows how the Roman empire grew and then shrunk. and I feel like I mean there was again a little tiny bit of that when they're talking about Calgan early on in the season but I think I maybe just wanted just a proper like state of the universe for somebody this is nitpicking but that's what we're here for because I guess through character they showed us that Foundation are kind of almost turning a bit Empire-y because you have that mayor of Foundation who was properly douchebaggy yeah I'm sure he's a nice guy in real life but that facial hair is terrible.

53:02And how he is kind of representing exactly why the second foundation is needed to exist because the foundation almost corrupted itself as well. But that's what's been foreseen. That's what it's supposed to do. It has to become a government. It has to become essentially another empire because at least in this telling, the empire that exists is the sort of foundation for civilization to exist and everything else to exist on top of that. So there needs to be, I guess, strong men and borders and blah, blah, blah in this scenario. It's ultimately maybe quite right wing. But second foundation is the path forward.

53:40If we wanted to link it to modern affairs, which of course, I'm sure that's not something they're thinking about. But you need scientists and, let's say, budget offices and economic forecasters to be independent of government so that they can give you accurate assessments of what's coming or what's possible or whatever. Right? Once you destroy that independence, you are in serious trouble as a civilization. Not that this is in any way a comment on anything happening in the real world. But that's the clever thing that Foundation built into itself with the Second Foundation. By keeping the psychohistorians completely aside from the creation of the encyclopedia and from the traders and from the whole mission of the rest of foundation to rebuild a civilization, that means that the planning, the long-term planning and the long-term strategizing is completely unaffected by short-term goals.

54:40Yeah. It's really smart. I mean, again, not that we're talking about modern day. No, completely different from anything going on right now. So what then is, what would the next season look like, like alliances-wise? I don't know what's the right term. Who's, what are the big people? Who's where? Yeah. Well, the Luminists are fucked. They got blown up by the Novacula, which is a great name for a Death Star. But was the Golden Tree blown up as well? Because Brother Day survived that, right? So they were in a little dungeon somewhere. Off to one's eye. Yeah. So maybe the Luminists are coming back.

55:16Yeah, maybe they could be coming back. So hang on. When we're saying the Golden Tree, what are we referring to? The tree that has golden apples. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. The golden apples, the ones that started the Trojan War. So this is the one that Demoiselle does her confessions under. So that's on Trantor, isn't it? I think that's on Trantor. That's in the garden on Trantor. Because Micogen is part of... So she has the luminous vicar come and take her confession. Which I love that, and I love that she then gets her brain wiped every time they do it. That's the ultimate seal of the confession, isn't it?

55:49So that's fine. But I think it's the luminous homeworld is, I understand, gone. Cloud Dominion's main mothership is gone. and the Galactic Council, in a very Palpatine-esque move, is gone as well. So the whole of Empire is now darkness. Darkness. Because there are no checks and balances on his power anymore. He has essentially dissolved the Senate and the last vestiges of the Old Republic have been swept away. Well, as we've seen, again, in the real world, there's no problems in an old and possibly doddering man having complete control of the government of a superpower. It's fine. Nothing could go wrong.

56:23It's absolutely fine. Yeah, that's worrisome. Yeah, it is worrisome. And so it has, in many ways, turned upside down the balance of power in the Foundation universe. So that's nice. But yeah, I don't know quite what the alliances are now. The mule is, in theory, down but not out. She's probably fine now that Gail's got away. You've got Second Foundation now hiding on Trantor in the library, which is a cool place to hide. It's a good library, to be fair. So they're hiding out there. You've now got this incredibly authoritarian, and despotic empire even more than it was before run by Darkness. And then, to add in the new faction, you've got the Earth-based or Lunar-based robot faction who are now like in the game.

57:05Yeah. The fact that Foundation 2 is on Trantor, which is basically the center of this scary brother Darkness thing, is very interesting because literally that's going to be the main two people because Foundation is now owned by the Mule, right? because... Maybe. The mule will have to be rooted out. So first foundation is definitely... It's under the control of the mule. Oh, the other faction we haven't talked about is what do Harry, essentially. The vault. What is his agenda? What is he going to do? Where is he going to go? He's obviously on a tear. He's clearly pissed off. And he's a shadow of the real Harry because he doesn't even contain all his memories.

57:46Yeah, hollow Harry. Obviously, hollow Harry is going to go to the mule and the mule is like, I'll give you a body, no problem. and then they're going to work together and kill everyone. Wow. I love that, by the way. I love the way that Harry had the mule, you know, at his mercy, but doesn't kill the fake mule because he knows something's not right. And he can't put his finger on it. He's like, he says to God, I tried to tell you, like, his story didn't add up. Something wasn't right. So he, and also I think there's a part of him that it really bothered him that he didn't know what the mule was, that the mule was coming, because he should know.

58:20and he already feels I think marginalised and a little bit of a third wheel in the whole thing so I think there's an ego thing at play there as well he was comforting himself with his godlike knowledge and when that comes up short that's a particular irritant I don't know what that's like yeah never coming up short that's it but that's it exactly when everyone comes in and makes a little trip to him to be like oh you know the mule and he says what are you talking about who's the mule and then just like a Brad again he just sends everyone out he just everyone leaves and no he turns to Nullfield on and almost kills a bunch of people just because they mention something that he doesn't know about I think Hollow Harry is someone that can cause a lot of problems and is also maybe the most human out of all well he's definitely Gale is not on his Christmas card list I think we can definitely agree that so I'm at once really excited for season 4 but also incredibly scared of it that it will break my heart I just, I hope that, you know, the quality of this show has been pretty off the charts so far, even with all my quibbles that I have mentioned.

59:29I just hope they bring the same kind of commitment to just going for it to next season. I genuinely think this is some of the most sophisticated storytelling on television. Without a shadow of a doubt. Because, you know, you have certain shows and certain streamers, let's be honest, who are spelling things out in dialogue for all the people who aren't, you know, who aren't looking at the screen and are just checking their phones. And you've got this, which is barely spelling anything out at a rate of knots and covering hundreds of years and hundreds of planets. Yeah, it's still really exciting.

1:00:05And still exciting, yeah. But would you rather something like The Wheel of Time to go out on a high and get cancelled and never see it again? Or would you rather Foundation where they could mess it all up in the next season? I don't want to make that choice, thank you. Yeah, that's not a fair choice. You'd rather just good... I would just like a good foundation. I don't know these new showrunners very well, but I think we just have to hope that they've been appointed for a reason by the same people who appointed Goya, right? Let's hope. Fingers crossed that they will knock it out of the park. As I have mentioned, I do have Tim Apple's email address.

1:00:36I'll drop him a line and say, Tim, mate, come on. So his name is Tim Apple? No, it's not. I mean, when you know him as well as I do, you have little affectionate nicknames for him. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. Like me, Tim Apple, T-Swizzle, you know, my close personal confidants. Yeah, that's the crew. Yeah, that's it. Good Lord. Okay, well, that was our long-promised Foundation chat. We hope you enjoyed it. Thank you very much for subscribing to Pilot Plus. We always do appreciate it. I'm not sure what we'll have up next on the spoiler list. I'll have to consult with Boydie, who wasn't invited to this one.

1:01:06But thank you very much, Helen. Cheers. Thank you very much, John, for joining us. Thank you. And thank you, Taylor, for your inputs. It was lovely to have you here as well. I'm all of a quiver. Pilot out.