Imperfect Women, A Woman Of Substance, and The Other Bennet Sister. With guests Ruth Jones and Ella Bruccoleri

20:20Boyd Hilton:we are okay it's not in the calendar but carry on it's not in the calendar it's not in the calendar oh no okay fair enough is everything you organised in the calendar yes I know I enjoy finding out about things live in this podcast exactly I knew you would did I tell you I did Ruth Jones for the for the nope I did tell you I was doing that I did what did you do what did you do is Ruth Jones on this week's show is this what you think Ruth Jones is on this week's show and here okay well this is good is it just Ruth Jones or anyone else no just Ruth Jones no no oh he's doing a Russell as well oh my gosh are you consulting Heat Magazine to find out who you interviewed for this podcast because it's not going to be in there no it is Ella Bricoleri yeah right so Ella Bricoleri and Ruth Jones you interviewed for the other Bennett sister yes for this podcast without informing anyone and putting it on the calendar I remember I did inform you but they're on this week's show no no no I can prove I did I admit that I had not put it on the calendar, but I didn't, I'll remind you, but I did tell you, do you remember, that was the one with the technical, they were like, which microphone should we get?

21:21Boyd Hilton:Oh, to be fair, yes, I did know, I did know that you were having technical, they got an omnidirectional microphone, especially, did they? Yes. James, I would just like to say, we've got to tread carefully, because remember, we've got a couple of things wrong. Yes, exactly, so, yeah, but no, I have a benefit, of course, being a Yellowstone's been off, so. Yes, of course, and it 100 % is a Yellowstone spin-off. 100 % is a Yellowstone spin-off. Yeah, that's absolutely true. Weirdly. All right, see what I've done here, buddy? I've added it to the calendar. It's now in there. It's official. Excellent.

21:48Live on Air Admin. You can re-record the intro at your notes. Oh, we're just going to leave it now. Yeah, so... So, 2026, I'll be doing those two on the Two Hues. News breaking on Friday. And finally, you know what's landed, James? This will get you excited, obviously, is For All Mankind Season 5, which we probably won't have time to review. I don't know. We'll find out. I suspect we will. We'll find time. Because it's sci-fi. And James likes it. Well, I like sci-fi, so, you know. Yeah, all the new episodes are up on the screeners, the Apple screeners. I know. That's on the what I've been watching list as well.

22:28Is that on the special Apple screeners? Yeah, it is.

22:31Boyd Hilton:Well, it's on my Apple screeners. I don't know. Okay, fine. But yes, I've been watching that too. It's very, very exciting to be back on Mars. for the Expanse origin story that is the new series of For All Mankind. Yeah, it's really good. I genuinely think this show now, the whole proposition of this show is to try and... It's a scientific experiment and it's like, how many layers of prosthetics can we put on Joel Kinneman before he literally falls over? Like that, I genuinely think that is what this show is about now. Because at this point, he's more prosthetic than man and the weight of it, you can almost see him like toppling with every step.

23:02Boyd Hilton:It's extraordinary. Yeah, absolutely true, yeah. I actually had to write a caption of a picture of him in all the makeup. I was like, yes, this is actually Joel Kinnaman. Believe it or not, this is Joel Kinnaman. Because the new series is set in like 2012, isn't it, roughly? And so he's like, what, 90-something at this point? Yeah. They should really put a plot point in that by then you'll be able to extend your age and look like a different human being and still be that same person. Would I enjoy this show? For All Mankind, yeah. It's great. It's an alternate history show. Oh, yeah. It is a little bit...

23:34Oh, we had a listener Yeah, it's a little bit of the beginning of stuff, though, for you. It's not, though. It starts in the 1960s. Yeah, it's not the end of the world, but they're colonising a planet.

23:46Boyd Hilton:Yeah, I don't think that's the same. Colonising Mars is not the same as surviving the apocalypse. They're not starting again and again. Okay, they're starting in a different place. Right. That's fine. They're going on holiday. It's a mini-break, is what I'm saying. It's a very long mini-break. Is it? I mean, yeah. Wow. I'm going to give that a go. Okay. So, yes, that is why I've been watching it. Mainly things to do with people I haven't told you about. Yes. Great. Good. So anyone else? Any other guests you'd like me to put on the calendar while we're here? We've got loads to line there. We haven't...

24:13Boyd Hilton:Anyway, no. We can't do admin on this. Okay, good. We need to work on our communications. Anyway. Well, I mean, you can talk. That's fair. What have I been watching? Mainly some things like this, actually. I have been going through my... It's a podcast. No, it's like for all my kind. I've been going through my Apple Watch list, weirdly. So I watched all of the new series of Your Friends and Neighbours, because all of the episodes were made available. I was very, very excited about that. I obviously can't tell you whether it's great or not, but it's brilliant. And I've also started watching the new series of Criminal Record as well.

24:45Boyd Hilton:Oh, yeah. With Chris Jumbo and, yeah, your man. Peter Capaldi. That's right. Him. Him. None other. So that was fun. And, but crucially, I've finished Broadchurch. Oh, thank God. A nation. A nation. I read a sign relief. I finished the third season of Broadchurch and I am bereft that there is no more for me you are I really liked it what was your favourite thing about it? breaking news, Broadchurch is good what was your favourite thing about your Bridgerton bin? are you Bridgerton? Broadchurch bin? I think that the David Tennant, Olivia Colman dynamic is just wonderful because he's such a twat and she's so chipper about everything and even at the very end when they talk about going to the pub and just his reaction to it is wonderful and brilliantly on character, on character, in character, on brand.

25:37Boyd Hilton:But yeah, really good. But it's a strange sort of narrative journey through those three seasons because obviously the first season, classic whodunit, second one, kind of the trial, and then the third one, which is a separate standalone story, which almost feels like a different show in many ways, but loads of the same characters are still in there. It's really, really good. It's actually that I thought was the most harrowing, actually, the third season. But yeah, really good. So for more reviews from a decade ago, Please keep tuning in to Pilot TV Podcast. Which 20-year-old show are you going to assail next?

26:09Who knows? Who knows? Maybe I'll go even further back. Did you... I don't know if I mentioned this last time, but what's part of the reason why you ended up watching Broadchurch? It's on Netflix, isn't it? Did you mention this?

26:18Boyd Hilton:The only reason I started watching it was because you, you literally, when we reviewed Under Saltmarsh, you said Broadchurch, of course, is the gold standard of British murder mysteries. And when you said that, I was like, you know what, he's absolutely right, and I never finished it. I need to address that. Do I remember that conversation? I noticed it is on Netflix. But it's on Netflix, yes. But that's not the reason. No, you, Boydie, you were my inspiration. What power I wield. God, we're on International Women's Week. Broadchurch, of course, being a spin-off of Taylor Sheridan's Yellowstone.

26:48Oh, God.

26:51Boyd Hilton:Okay, let's move on to this week's listener question. And this week's listener question is going to be something slightly different. It is our International Women's episode. Therefore, Steph, we are going to pass over to you to choose a question or indeed make up a question. The mic is yours. I was asking some of my international women upstairs what kind of question they'd like answered on the podcast. And they gave me the following information. And then I asked Boyd about it and he was like, I don't know, but I'm just going to, I'm going to give you all these questions. Just to be absolutely clear, you decided to ask a man.

27:28Yeah. I did. Steph, as it should be.

27:31Boyd Hilton:Steph. No, I asked my dear Caroline upstairs and several other women and then I also asked Boyd because I don't want to see Boyd's little frustrated face if he doesn't like the question. You've let the side down. I'm sorry. Okay, so, right. It feels like women are having a golden moment in peak TV, not just acting but producing and directing. Why do you think this is? Carries on. Can you carve out a Mount Rushmore of female-led TV shows? Or who are the greatest female TV characters of all time? Choose to answer one or all of those questions. That's a lot of options there. Because I'm a woman, I've given you choice.

28:13Well, thank you.

28:14Boyd Hilton:What would you class as a female-led show? Are we saying female leads or are we saying female showrunner, female creative team? What's the criteria? I'm going to say, I'm going to mix those last two and say, female leads and the greatest of all time female let's have the greatest of all time female leads let's have that TV show female leads are we talking individual leads or do we want so like Sex and the City it's a woman fronted show right it's not show run by a woman but it's a woman fronted show I'm not talking like ensemble I'm talking individual so I'm obviously going to say Jessica Fletcher right one woman so obvious yeah right female she's one of the greatest female leads of all time that's what I'm going to say it has to be an individual so it could be like Helen Mirren do you know what I mean like prime suspect it could be that okay so it needs to be also that's her versus the patriarchy so it works on two levels in so many ways right so yes so it has to be one female fronting that show okay not an ensemble cast and it has to be a lead role like so for example It has to be a lead role.

29:24Oh, okay. Why? I'm up for discussion because I'm flexible. I'd go for, because obviously he's going to talk about it, but I'd go for CJ in the West Wing. It would be my absolutely obvious number one choice. It is an ensemble. She's one of the leads. Yeah, but she's one. But is she a lead or is she one of the leads? Or is she part of an ensemble? She's a dual lead. Is this allowed in your twisted world? It is allowed. It's allowed. Is it? I think it's allowed. It's borderline. It's borderline. Great character. Can you not think of another just female? I'll give you loads, But honestly, I think CJ in the West Wing is the greatest female character in the history of television.

30:00I pretty much do think that.

30:01Boyd Hilton:Wow, okay. I wouldn't pretend to say that I could name the greatest female character in the history of television. Okay. But I would say one of my favourites would be Buffy. I would put Buffy up there, just in terms of Buffy the Vampire Slayer being such a sort of seminal show. But then also, if we're talking like sort of almost like pushing feminist representation in television. Xena Warrior Princess, weirdly, is a really good one for that. Her and Gabriela, who became like absolutely iconic during the 90s. So let's answer both. Not a great show though. Let's do ensemble and female lead then because obviously this could be a nice discussion for us, right?

30:36So if we were saying, so CJ's going to be, I'm going to allow her to be in your like female character. Or Mount Rushmore, the Mount Rushmore female characters. Best female characters. Best female characters. Okay, so she's in there. I think you have to have Jessica Fletcher because why wouldn't you and you're having who played Jessica Fletcher Angela Lansbury so I'm just talking about the I'm so angry with you right now Angela Lansbury and also I temporarily forgot the name which is why I thought you did I was looking at you thinking what's wrong with me James so who would you say female character best of all time

31:19Boyd Hilton:a single female character has the best of all time I could say one of my favourites okay Mount Rushmore this is your Mount Rushmore oh okay so basically you're saying I just need to nominate a person yes I wanted to query your choice before you did anything else why? am I right in saying like Damages is like one of your all time favourite TV shows oh god oh listen Glenn Close yeah she's where's Patty on your Mount Rushmore that's what I want to know oh my god I have to yeah I mean Damages is probably my favourite you know aside you know Murder, She, Right Side Damages Damages is a massive trailblazer and people it never gives it like has a reverse narrative it never gets the credit and I don't understand why it's never up there when people talk about their greatest shows because she and Rose Byrne in that as well there's two dual female leads and they're just both incredible I'm so glad you brought that up because yeah actually she would be I'm getting two choices because it's International Women's Day so you can have one that's difficult I feel like Buffy might be my choice, but I also feel like I don't want to be tied down to it.

32:27Okay, well, no one's going to tie you down.

32:30Boyd Hilton:This is just an exercise. This is just a podcast. I'm taking this very seriously, because obviously Boyd, he's stolen CJ, and someone like Ainsley Hayes isn't going to work, if I'm going to have a take. Although, would I go with Amy Gardner from The West Wing? I don't know. No, probably not. It would obviously be CJ, but I can't have her. would I go with Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica no again probably not this is difficult I thought you would go for Julia Louis-Dreyfus absolutely I would Elaine it should be my second choice Elaine would be number two for sure the difficulty with this this kind of question is that because people complain that we only he only talks about the West Wing because we will pick the characters from our favourite shows I only talk about Simon Feld and Kerr which is so true and so I've fallen into that trap which is why I went for CJ before he could in the West Wing just to mix it up a bit but we do talk about the same programme so I'm trying to think of one who's not from those really obvious programmes that are bang on you know who I did absolutely love is and it's very topical because hopefully you should be in soon is Elizabeth Moss do you remember Top of the Lake China Girl that is so well both two seasons of Top of the Lake the first season is one of my is one of the greatest one of your favourite shows of all time it's so strange you should talk about that because I was only thinking about that this morning and not being able to remember the name of the show Top of the Lake is absolutely phenomenal absolutely brilliant phenomenal she is stunning she's a revelation in that and of course Helen Mirren you're absolutely right would be up there but I feel that they're quite similar like in the history in the pantheon of female detectives they're like the two for me the two greatest ones and obviously she I think they admitted paying homage to to what trailblazer Tennyson was as a character and Helen Mirren was as an actress but yeah those would be my strong candidates I think James, come on.

34:17Give us a woman. You're trying to pin me down on something, aren't you?

34:20Boyd Hilton:So many options. So many thoughts. I mean, I'm trying to pick something that isn't one of my favourite shows. So I don't want to do West Wing, Battlestar Galactica, any of those sort of shows. So those are off the table, right? So you're just going to recognise them for their performance. Right, okay. It doesn't have to be one of your favourite shows. Also, Boydie, I thought that in your running would be Michaela Cole in I May Destroy You. Yeah, it would be. She's absolutely brilliant. But I don't think... It's a one-off show, I guess. Okay. It feels less impactful. You feel like it needs to have an enduring relationship with the character.

34:48Oh, do you know who else I love? Viola Davis in How to Get Away with Murder. I love her character. She was good.

34:53Boyd Hilton:I mean, you're talking about female-fronted shows, all of the Shondaland stuff. Grey's Anatomy, Scandal, all of those. Very sort of female-fronted. Scandal, of course. Yeah. Kerry Washington. Kerry Washington, who are we going to be talking about a little bit later on? She's very, very good in that. Yeah. Gilmore Girls, another female-centric show with great characters, also very well written. Anything Lisa McGee's done, but Derry Girls being front and foremost. But now when you're not naming individuals, He's just trying to get away with it. I am. I'm trying to duck the question. But I mean, I did say as well, we'll talk about Ensemblecast, so, you know, we can forgive him for that.

35:22Okay. I'm just going to say like five hours if we do both categories. Okay. Well, it is International Women's Week. Do I pick Kate Winslet? Do I put her up there for Mare of Easttown? Oh, yeah. She's a potential. She is a potential. Although, again, that's a one-off. That was a one-off. Oh, okay. We've got a new rule. A new rule. We're not allowed one-offs.

35:39Boyd Hilton:It's actually not a rule. Although it's a returning series now, isn't it? so technically it's allowed what is Mare of Easttown yeah because there was discussion of actually that it might come back after all what's that this was announced shortly after we did all the task interviews remember we talked about task and there was discussion about how how task and Mare of Easttown take place in the same universe yeah but then it was announced that actually Mare might be coming back might we're going to need a number crunch on that this is like you've done this before we're going to need a number crunch yeah you've done this before where you've kind of announced that something has been confirmed and it wasn't ever confirmed and then it's an official announcement like a year later and you go oh see I was right okay I just googled it very briefly this with Brad Inglesby and he didn't give anything away but apparently Kate Winslet has confirmed a strong likelihood for Mare of Easttown season 2 with filming potentially starting around 2027.

36:22Boyd Hilton:So I don't think it's officially going ahead. I mean, that is, if that's true then I fully, that's very exciting. That is exciting. Why wouldn't you? I'm amazed that it's taken this long to bring it back. Why wouldn't you? I suppose, can I just answer why wouldn't you? I think Mare of Easttown is so near perfect that that's why you wouldn't. because obviously second season is such a risk. People always say that. I know, but it's such a risk with something like that. It's not that much of a risk because when you've got people of that level of talent, I don't think it is that much of a risk. I think just the, yeah, but the case, you're being like, I don't know, I think it's a massive risk.

36:56It is a risk because it is perfect. And Evan Peters was so integral to how brilliant that show was as well and obviously, spoiler, he doesn't quite... Don't say it. People haven't watched it. Oh my God.

37:08Boyd Hilton:People say I'm the spoiler. He might not be available You are on account of his busy schedule and other commitments. You are the new spoiler. Spoiler. Wow. I'm sorry. Okay. Are you not going to stump for Olivia Benson? Again, Olivia, but that's a hard, that is, yeah. Not Taylor Swift's cat. No. Crucially, I mean, Mariska Harkite's character. I do love her, but she will never ever, she won't be, she would never be Angela Lansbury for me as a female detective. Come on, James, give us one woman. One. I want something that's off the beaten track Veronica Mars might be one that I would pick Veronica Mars are you joking?

37:48I am not saying it is the greatest performance

37:51Boyd Hilton:I'm just saying if I had to pick someone to go on the Mount Rushmore I'm trying to find someone a bit left field why don't you just pick Miley Cyrus for Hannah Montana for God's sake I mean if you want you can totally have Miley on there I think you've gone off the rails have I? Buffy's fine because Buffy's an iconic character. Thank you. But I'm not sure if Roderick or Marge. But I do talk about Buffy quite a lot. So I feel a little bit like, you know, it's a bit too obvious. Okay. Have you got any not obvious choices that you'd like to share with us? Liz Lemon from 30 Rock. Oh, no, you're talking.

38:23That's a good one. Bang. That is a great one. Liz Lemon. Yeah. Which coming from someone who doesn't get comedy

38:29Boyd Hilton:or like comedy is quite extraordinary. Do you watch 30 Rock? I've dipped in and out of 30 Rock. I think she's fantastic in it. There are other characters in it that I find less funny. You can name them, that's fine. They don't listen. They might. They're all subscribers, Steph. They're all subscribers. There is a character I don't like, isn't it? And I'm not talking about Baldwin either. Baldwin's great. I think it's the peak of Baldwin's career. Oh, it's absolutely the peak of Baldwin. Alec Baldwin, by the way. Alec Baldwin, that and Boss Baby is absolutely the peak of the career. That and Boss Baby.

39:00I'd say 30 York is even better than Boss Baby. That's controversial. The scenes between Liz Lemon and him are gold. Absolutely gold. 30 Rock, yeah.

39:08Boyd Hilton:Okay. That's a good call. Yeah, well done. So what we've got? We've got... Right, so we've got... Tina Fey. Yeah, so you're having Tina Fey, you're having CJ, and I'm having... Jessica Fletcher and all. That's fair. Can I have Dana Scully on there as well? No. Oh, yeah, Dana Scully. It is great, but you can't because you've only got one choice. I see. Okay? She can be at the bottom. Right. Of the mountain. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I think we've done it. Well done. Well done, you guys. I think it's four hours. There we go. Okay. Fine. That was a question from Steph's colleagues. Yes. But if you would like your question addressed on this podcast, then the email address for the time being is pilotTV at empiremagazine.com.

39:50Boyd Hilton:Time now, apparently, for this week's guests.

39:57Boyd Hilton:Boydie, would you like to introduce the recording? Yeah. Which I haven't been sent yet. Okay. Assuming, oh my God. Assuming this happens every week. Boyd, have you got the audio for this? Yeah, it's on my home computer, sorry. And then Boyd, having a booming social life, will forget to send it to me for like three days. That does happen a lot. It's not your fault you're so popular, honey. I mean, what can I do? All right, Boyd, so we have an interview. Yes, yes. I spoke to Ella Bricoleri, who plays Mary, in The Other Bennett Sister, and Ruth Jones, who plays Mrs. Bennett, her mother. And together, I interviewed them with the ICA in London, you know, the Institute of Contemporary Arts.

40:31Oh, how fancy that. Is that where they do ballet and opera? It's mainly visual art, to be fair. so no anyway they were both absolutely brilliant and we'll be reviewing the show shortly as well on this very episode and we're using an omnidirectional mic which is FYI

40:48Boyd Hilton:is this your way of saying so if it sounds terrible that's the reason why yeah basically and the wonderful publicist Ian Johnson is recording it for me and hopefully will send me the audio file at some point yeah Ian if you could chuck us the audio that'd be great yeah so here we go Ella and Ruth welcome to the Pilots Review podcast Thank you. How are you both? Really happy, actually. Are you? Yeah. I'm really excited. I feel the same way. Yeah. You've got the premiere of The Other Bennett Sister tonight. Yes. As we sit here now. Did you know the whole idea of this story? Did you read the book?

41:21Did you read the novel? Were you aware of the concept, the very clever concept of Janis Hall-Lewsby? I've never heard of it. No, I didn't. I thought you were probably produced other than... No. No. I read, when I was off the part, I did then listen to the audio book of The Other Bennett's Sister by Janice Hadlow, which is, you know, it's a big, thick book. It's like David Copperfield. It is, yeah. But it was a great, I've really enjoyed listening to it. But then you have to be careful with an adaptation, I think, because obviously you can't, when you adapt a novel for screen, you can't have everything in it so there were going to be certain things that were not in the tv script um but it did give you nice elements of background as well that were quite useful i thought yeah i find it really useful reading it i had i hadn't heard of it honestly um and had not read it prior to getting part i hadn't read pride and prejudice or ask getting apart i hadn't seen any of the adaptation so i did all of that in the like space of a week um that's a lot of work you gave yourself They're both reading the thick books as well, as you say.

42:31But I did find it really helpful. I think it's hard to know, isn't it? Sometimes you have to, when you get the part, you're like, do I watch how other people have performed this? Do I read all the material? Or is that actually not going to help me at all? Because in so many ways, really, you have to take the script for what it is. Yeah, exactly. Disregard anything else. Yeah, because it has to stand on its own, which Sarah's scripts actually do. Yeah, because I think Mary is, she is different, slightly different in the scripts to how she is in the book. I think she's got slightly more agency and a bit more bite, I think, in the adaptation.

43:11Yeah. But I still just find all, I tend to just find it really helpful to gather all the information I can because then it's like, I don't know, just knowing all those little bits of detail, I think, just help you flesh it. a bit better than, you know. It's like making a beautiful meal, isn't it? Yeah. The different little herbs and this, a little bit of that. Yeah, exactly. We should say, of course, you're mother and daughter in the show. Yes, yeah. But it's one of the least – she's not a kind of warm matriarch, is she, who you play. She is quite horrible, I think. I can use that word. Yes. Certainly to Mary throughout the whole thing.

43:53Absolutely. And the irony is not lost on me that this series is being launched on Mother's Day. Was that a very clever schedule? No, actually. My mum always tells me it's not called Mother's Day, it's mothering something. Because she said there's lots of ways to mother. But Mrs. Bennett is certainly not the epitome of maternal love. I think, you know, forgive me because Elle has heard me say this before, but she was a kind of a businesswoman in lots of ways, Mrs. Bennett, an 18th century estate agent, if you will, who had five properties to sell and one of them won't shift. but it comes from it sort of comes from a good place in her that she wants for all her daughters to be looked after and in that day and age you know you as a woman you could not inherit you had no financial independence you had no independence you couldn't just decide to be a single woman really and live your life it's shameful yeah yeah you had to marry so yes she is quite a monster but and i'm not making excuses for her because she's also completely narcissistic and quite cruel but she did essentially at the heart of it want mary to be okay just like i asked to do i don't think it's helpful to see her as this like arch villain of peace do you know what i mean because that's not actually i think our show um um it makes you know it's quite good at showing how complex it is it's not that um and i think she shows her love i think she does love her daughters and i think she shows her love in a very practical way but it's like that whole love language thing isn't it like that's not how you receive i'm not going to receive loving that way um i want to be nurtured and very wants to be cuddles and told that she does have something to offer and mrs bennett's never going to do that Your reaction shots when your mother is being really horrible to you are, you feel heartbreaking.

46:04It's heartbreaking, yeah. I think it's, but it's like, you know, it's just like a universal thing of like, I think even people in their like 70s and 80s still, if they do have parents around, like you just want to make your parents proud of you. Just all you want is to be proud of you. Absolutely. Don't you? Absolutely. And I think that also that Mary, in reaction to the way that she was treated by her mother, I'm sort of speaking for you now, but I think Mary as a character absolutely had to, she couldn't be beaten down by this. No. So in a way it sort of made her, yeah, well actually I am going to be my own person.

46:43But it's such a long old journey to get there because it's, you know, that's all she's known. especially if you I mean you're so influenced by your family aren't you but especially when you're like you're living in a tiny village and don't really know anyone outside that who else are you going to be able to believe and listen to you know was it great fun though playing a woman who is capable of being that kind of ruthless oh yes ruthless uh ruthless germs yes um I think yeah it It was great fun because, of course, if you have a character who comes out with these awful lines, I mean, some of the lines were just so joyous.

47:20Like when she disapproves of Mary dancing with Mr. Sperry with the dance. And she says, you have stood up with him three times, which was absolutely a no-no. But the fact that she says, his father has a shop with a bell. And you think, I mean, you know, they're awful, but those things should matter. But on the other hand, they're really funny. So, I mean, she is undoubtedly one of the best parts I've ever played. I loved her. I loved her. Of course, Alison Steadman played her, didn't she? In the… Yes. And have you spoken to her about this? Yes. Well, Alison and I, we were at, I think, well, we were at, this sounds really pretentious.

48:11We were at an awards set, of course, for getting Stacey. And I told Alison then, I said, oh, guess what? And it was still very hush-hush. I said, can you play Mrs. Bennet? And she, I mean, Alison's just a joy and she was just so happy for me. So I'd be interested to see what she thinks. I did say to her, she's not anything like yours, really, which is great to have that opportunity. And Olivia Colman's playing her for Netflix, isn't that? Yeah. I mean, you are in a kind of starred role. It's going to be a Mrs. Bennet fest. I mean, yeah, I can't wait. And again, because the joy of the other Bennet sister, of course, is that you've kind of just changed the angle from which you're watching this story of Pride and Prejudice and you're seeing a different family dynamic and different family relationship.

49:00And yet, if you're familiar with Pride and Prejudice, that makes it even more enjoyable to watch the Bennet sister. And how was it having Ruth Jones as your mother and not just that Richard E. Grant as your father? Yeah, well, I was very lucky, wasn't I, really? I've been really, really lucky. I loved working with Ruth for so many reasons. She's a comedy agent, obviously, so I would find painting those shades of light and dark I think were really important because there is so much cruelty in it. It feels very cruel so I think it's important to give it levity as well and we had moments where we were able to do that which was really lovely.

49:40And also Ruth was just so sensitive and kept apologising to me. It's like, thank you. I could handle it, it's fine. it's fine um but um i think i just felt very i felt very grateful and humbled for the whole the way that everyone approached it really because everyone you know when you have like big big names doing your show you you can't expect them to like you think maybe they won't care about it as much as i can maybe they'll just come in and do that bit and then but like everyone approached it in that everyone cared just as much as i did we all approached it in a really detailed like fastidious way and I was so yeah I was just really humbled by that I think it and I think it was um prolific throughout the whole production wasn't it it was with the the care that went into the costumes the makeup the production the settings um it was just everybody you just got a feeling that everybody cared yeah yes yeah and how was it for you being um Richard E.

50:40Grant's life how was that how's the bomb well it's funny because i've i've known richard for some time and we've done um i'd interviewed him at a book festival uh we have the same agent but we'd never actually worked together uh so yeah it was it was great because i think the casting of this couple as a couple who now you know i think my my take on it was that back in the day they had a really active, vibrant sex life and had all these babies. And then it just, they didn't really have anything else in common. And so it turned to a real bitterness, you know. And I love that we've got some scenes where you can hear them arguing in the background in another room.

51:27And so Richard was great on that front because he's so sardonic and he's so able to get that real dry arch intolerance of his wife. And she, by the same token, was very frustrated by him and that he wouldn't do more, you know, because Mrs. Bennet is incredibly proactive. Yeah, it's very passive, isn't it? He's just sitting there reading his paper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I thought he played that brilliantly. The two of you together, such a brilliant bit of casting, I think it's like, it's fantastic. It really is, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Now you have to do this scene where you have to play the piano and sing kind of badly.

52:05Now you are a musician and a singer, and I know you have got a very good voice. How was that for you having to, did you have to kind of like. It's really embarrassing because it's like, yeah, I thought, you know, I thought like, you know, I can hold a tune at least. So it's going to be really difficult for me to sing badly. It's going to be really like, you know, I have to throw my demotivist. Honestly, that is genuinely out of my point, Sam, because I was like so nervous. I was like I just led into the nerves And we were just sitting there And it honestly it wasn't even like a hat to eat To put that on And when you see it you'll see how shameful that is Because it's really bad isn't it Well you see It's a little bit like Drunk acting It's very tricky to get the right Balance to sing badly When your character demands that Because you can Run the risk of sounding like you're trying to be funny.

53:01Whereas now I've discovered that you really were singing like that. I was going to say, oh my gosh, you did that so brilliantly. I just let myself... You were doing your very best. ...means control. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm not an operatic singer. So, you know. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Now you've both been in, obviously, a long-running, huge call, the midwife, just finished its most... I know. ...kind of finished for a long while, right? Gavin and Stacey. So when you're in a long-running show like that that you're so associated with, do you look for roles that are completely different to the ones that you've just been doing?

53:36Or do you just look for projects that excite you and have… Listen, I just do what I… I still feel very lucky that anyone wants to employ me. So I tend to, you know, I get offered something. It's very unlikely that I'm going to go, oh, no, I don't think I can do it. I mean, I think I've just been lucky that the parts I've been offered I have wanted to do and they have been different. And so, you know, this year I did the last year, I did the Netflix series, which I really loved that character because she was quite enigmatic and was the first time I played a private detective. Then you go, I went from that to playing Mrs.

54:16Bennett, which was fantastic. I mean, people are, I guess, I'm always going to be associated with Nessa, which I'm very happy with because I'm, you know, gosh, she's done me a lot of favours. I know, but I'm still going to say 10%. But, yeah, so I always think I'm not a terribly ambitious actress. I always say the same thing. Do you? Yeah. Yeah, I'm just sort of like kind of grateful to get a job. She regularly does it with her hair. Do you know what I mean? I was like, I've got no ambition. I'm just happy to be doing it. I'm just so happy to be doing it. Because it's like, for me, I've always said this, acting is like playing.

54:58I just want to have fun. I want to enjoy it. And that can be doing a really emotional scene. I mean, Ella and I have got an incredibly emotional scene in the last episode of this. But it was still, oh, just so joyous, wasn't it? Yeah, it was such a lovely day. It was like we were performing a little play. We had time to do this like two-hander that kind of just went in these different directions. And days like that on set, you're just like, this is why I'm doing this job. Yeah. I just love it. Absolutely. And I just, I'm the same as Ruth. I just want to carry on working. I think it's not, you know, you want to do lots of different things, don't we?

55:30Yeah. Kind of the fear of doing, it's nice to be able to. To have variety. Yes. That's exactly. Like I think if I was offered a part as a Barry Island arcade worker in a leather skirt and a black bob, I'd probably turn that down. I've got to have that idea. How annoying. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. What about, Ruth's obviously has written the whole co-written, Kevin C. Would you like to write stuff as well? I would. I would really, I'm writing something with my partner, but he's a writer. But I'm like, it's so, it's new territory for me. So I'm like learning whether I'm any good at writing with another person.

56:07I think I, like, I think sometimes why, yeah, because she's like your partner partner. Yeah, see, that brings all sorts of levels. Yeah, that's interesting. Yes. But we're very aligned with our tastes and what we write. But he likes to sit and write together. And I don't know if that's the best way of working for me. Well, it's interesting because I'm writing two things at the moment. I'm writing with James and I'm writing with Steve Spears. And we have completely different ways of working together. So with James, we've sort of basically carried on as we always did with Gavin and Stacey's, which is we'd sit in the room, we'd sort of map out generally what the episode would be.

56:46And then we would sort of act it out. We'd sort of improvise it and write it down. But with Steve, we do a very clear sort of overall episode outline. And then we do a very clear scene by scene. And then he will write the first draft. I will do the second draft. Really? I'll sit back and forth between you. Yeah, because I don't think Steve says I couldn't sit in the room. No. and right not in a horrible way but you're I don't know I feel like you your inhibitions go up maybe and you're kind of always thinking this is really shit yeah whereas you're free when you're by yourself yeah how what's going to which of those projects is going to come first do you think in terms of filming the project that's called Better Later for BBC we film that in June oh great and then we film The Choir which is the project called June with James in the autumn, but that would be like for six months.

57:45So, but who knows when. I imagine Better Later will come out first, but I mean, I don't know. I don't get told these things. Well, congratulations on the other best. It's fantastic. And Washington, too, see how this is brilliant. Thank you. Cheers. Thanks a lot.

57:59Boyd Hilton:Okay, I believe it is time now for this week's news. Does anyone have any news? As I desperately try and get my phone out of my pocket, which has the news stories that I saved on it. I don't know why I'm putting my hand up, but I do have some news. Okay, you'll be interested in this, James. Miley Cyrus is returning as Hannah Montana. Is this just to go on my Mount Rushmore? It's a bit Veronica Mars adjacent. Okay, so on the 24th of March, 20 years to the day since the show launched on the Disney Channel, she's going to have a little go. There you go, an anniversary special. So that'll be nice for you.

58:34I've never seen Hannah Montana. You've never seen? Okay, actually it's quite a good show. I have to watch a lot of that. Anyway, so that is happening. Also, The Morning Show, a female-led show. In its fifth season, Jeff Daniels has been added to the roster and he is playing a self-made billionaire. I saw this story and you know what I thought first? I thought, hasn't he already been in it? No, and you're like, oh no, that's the newsroom. Yeah, yeah.

59:01Boyd Hilton:That's right, yes. The newsroom, terribly flawed, but I love it. Of course, because it's... I am very excited. there's a picture of him at a desk and he looks very menacing. Is that from the newsroom? Are you sure? Yeah, are you sure? Show me the picture. Oh, it's on your computer. Okay. I'm going to... No, I think that is from this. Yeah, I don't think that's not unusual. What do you think? It doesn't look unusual. It's quite unusual to have a publicity shot this early in the process, but yeah, it looks like it. Okay, well that's very exciting. Other things to talk about, and obviously James will be thrilled about this, Boyd and I talking about this.

59:41So, there's been a lot of axing on Strictly, a lot of pro-dancers' ax. Obviously, they've still not made any announcements about who is going to be the new presenters. obviously Tess and our beloved Claudia gone, gone on to new pastures. But this week, ahead of the 2026 return, four professional dancers have been axed. Gorka, Luba, Michelle and Nadia have all gone. Well, you've successfully, James's eyebrows successfully raised higher perhaps than I've ever seen. Have you ever watched Strictly? Of course not. Of course he hasn't. Strictly's really good. I'm sure. It is. And that's about dancing.

1:00:21Oh, you don't care about that.

1:00:22Boyd Hilton:I mean, I don't watch the dancing dogs. I'm definitely not watching the dancing humans. You don't watch the dancing dogs? This is what I'm saying. I'd watch Crufts before I'd watch Strictly. Oh, same, yeah. Why wouldn't you just watch Crufts anyway? Do you know what? My level of disappointment with you today is so high. So, Boyd, have you got, my question to you, is any inkling on who is going to be the new presenter as you walk in those circles? And also, what do you think it means that they have axed some of these beloved prose. I have absolutely no idea about axing the beloved prose. I don't really have any great knowledge of Strictly from that point of view.

1:00:59The only reason I haven't watched Strictly is because it's Claudia.

1:01:01Boyd Hilton:I mean, I would watch anything. Because Barry White Boyd does hate ballet, so it probably extends he probably hates dancing generally. Yeah, that's true. Back in the day, I did watch, really early on, I watched Strictly for various reasons, and I used to go on the Strictly It Takes Two show, BBC 2 famously I must have mentioned this before on the podcast apologies listeners who have been listening for the last seven how long have we been going? Too long Eight years I did one of the Strictly It Takes Two episodes and Donny Osmond was the other guest and it was my birthday and Donny Osmond and they gave me a cake with a picture of me and Donny Osmond on it together and Donny Osmond picked me up and did like a dance with me at the end like a slow dance a slow dance with Donny Osmond on an episode of Strictly It Takes Two that is that is so sweet yeah so I haven't really paid that much attention since then to the dancers I don't really care who's dancing on it to be honest well let me tell you the fact that Gawker's gone is a huge blow I know yeah I get it but as for who's going to host it I genuinely don't think they've decided yet they really need to it's not until you know six months or whatever is it but I'd be surprised if it's not something like Ryland and Zoe Ball something like that keeps ticking away in my mind that duo something like that like yeah a big a big female star presenter and Ryland someone had Ryland but who knows I mean you know I've absolutely no inside knowledge on that whatsoever okay that's my news did either of you see the trailer for The Testaments no which is the Handmaid's Tale follow up yeah and myself spinoff right indeed based on the book I didn't realise so it's set quite a while after the end of The Handmaid's Tale so Gilead spoiler for The Handmaid's Tale is still around but has I guess changed in certain ways and Plum is the colour of choice this time around but from the trailer I was like hmm interesting it didn't look quite as overtly misery porn as the original series but I'm assuming it kind of goes down that route well that's interesting because I think I remember I haven't read the book I've read I've read the The Handmaid's Tale original book yeah but that ends with like season one of the show yeah yeah sure but I remember reading the reviews of this of this book and people saying that it wasn't quite as relentlessly miserable as the original that there was more kind of lightness and whatever purpleness have you read a lot more purple no the testaments but it's interesting yeah I mean you know it's a huge undertaking because the original was like what six seasons of Handmaid's Tale now concluded now concluded yeah so I'm fascinated to see what they do I think they can't make it It has to be different tones, isn't it?

1:03:43Boyd Hilton:Yeah, you would have... I mean, look, The Hammer's Tale was a really good show. I never made it... I got halfway through the second series, but I found it so... It was like self-harm. Like, just watching it, it would make me so miserable watching it. I just couldn't keep doing it. I totally agree with you. The Hammer's Tale, I absolutely... I loved the first series, but it's so fucking depressing, isn't it? It was hard to get through. It was a bit of a slog. yeah misery porn is exactly what it was so I didn't I haven't finished I mean I think I watched a lot more of it you know I remember getting up to season 4 when I interviewed Elizabeth Moss I appreciate the brilliance of it and it absolutely is brilliant yeah I think it was fantastic and when I'm really super upbeat I'm going to go back to it right when I can see a long amount of time maybe when International Women's Week is over yeah you know you can yeah then I can yeah but it does it is an undertaking it is a mental undertaking isn't it you have to you need to steal yourself for that show somewhere sunny and you know just you know with a cocktail and just really living it up you know you need to balance it all don't you because it is it's a real like oh god let's get down to all this terrible thing that's happening I genuinely remember this it was a scene that I came into the office and I just like this was god it must have been well however many years ago like seven eight years ago and I sat down and this was when Terry was editor of Empire and she was like what on earth is your face and I just turned around and I just watched the episode and I think it's from the beginning I want to say season 2 where Aunt Gladys whatever it's not Aunt Gladys is it Aunt Lydia it's Aunt Lydia isn't it it's Aunt Lydia she handcuffs one of the handmaids to like a gas hob and then like turns it on and I was just like I genuinely that was the thing that pushed me over there I just I just can't deal with this.

1:05:37Boyd Hilton:I cannot have this in my head. So, yeah. I'm kind of, I'm with you. I'm with you. And you know how I hate to be with you. Let's all have an open mind, though, about... No, I absolutely... Which apparently is a knockabout comedy. Which brings in a new colour of plum. Sorry. Be gone the burgundy. Burgundy? It was kind of just red, isn't it? Red, yeah. You're saying it's burgundy now? No, it's now plum. Oh, plum. Yeah, they've gone full purple. It's plum. It's not that subtle. One's red, one's purple. It was more of a darker red. Oh my God. Can we please not pull out Pantones at this point? This is movie news, not like colour coordination.

1:06:16Boyd Hilton:No, it's TV news. It's not even movie news. What's the other thing? TV. That's it. TV news. This is such a shambolic podcast. Right. From, which is starring your namesake, Boyd, Sheriff Boyd. Yeah. That is a show that I have persevered with. And there's been a trailer for the new season of Gone. Now, when the last season of Gone... Can we start calling it Gone? No, it's called From. It has gone, as in season two has gone. But season three is not gone, but it is From. Gone is that show that we reviewed. Right, exactly. And that's not this. So, From, From, From. See, we talk about generic titles.

1:06:48Boyd Hilton:See, yes. This is a generic title. We had that in the session, yeah. Yes. Don't call your show From. Gone is the David Morrissey ITV drama, which is excellent. It's like Gone, From, Here, There. Can we just have proper titles? Yeah, bring back proper titles. Proper titles, thank you. Anyway, carry on. Anyway, From. is coming back for another series, Sheriff Boy, dealing with the kind of monster, because they're stranded in that town and they can't get out. I felt a little bit in the last season that this show had gone off the rails a little bit. It feels like they're in that freewheeling writer's room, makes you up as you go along territory.

1:07:20Boyd Hilton:I could be wrong, but that's what it feels like to me. So I wasn't going to go back to it, but I'm back in now. I'm going to go back to it and see what happens. I remember we reviewed the first series, didn't we, I think? We did, yes. And it was quite maverick. It was quite maverick, But it gets increasingly batty as it goes along, as these things tend to. I get confused with From and Evil. Evil was like another one. Evil's the Mike Coulter procedural. Yes. But again, one of the better network procedures around. Yeah, surprisingly good in the end, wasn't it? Yeah, it was decent. Supernatural procedural.

1:07:48All these one-word titles. It is getting silly, isn't it? A little bit, yeah.

1:07:53Boyd Hilton:A ban on one-word titles. Right. I was going to mention the Royal Television Society Award nominations are out this week. And the Royal Television Society Awards are, I would say, second only to the BAFTAs as for the importance. Yes, except Mrs. Brown's boys is more likely to win. No, no, no, you're confusing it with the National Television Awards. You're right, I am. No, the National Television Awards but the National Television Awards voted for by the public. Yes. And that's where they went wrong. Yeah, the RTS Awards are not voted by the public. The RTS Awards are voted by the likes of me in juries of TV experts.

1:08:24And Kay Ribeiro, I believe. Yeah, she's on board as well. Crucially, I was not invited. Do you know why? One day. why you do know why

1:08:33Boyd Hilton:I do know why egregious yeah exactly yeah anyway Adolescents got the most nominations of course with six nominations and Slow Horses Big Boys Code of Science you've got three I'll just mention a couple of categories I know James loves it when I go through all the nominees in any of these I do so enjoy it please go through it in full no I'm not going to go through it in full but comedy drama includes Big Boys oh favourite of the podcast Dreaming Whilst Black yes please and Juice another favourite I think of this very podcast Comedy Performance Female Jordan Gray in Transaction Catherine Parkinson in Here We Go Lucy Punch Amanda Land and Philippa Dunn from Amanda Land and Amanda Land dominated I love Lucy Punch Comedy Performance Male Ajani Salmon from Junior Ross Black John Pointing from Big Boys Oliver Saville Changing Entity plays Alan Carr in Changing Entity is brilliant and Steve Coogan who you may have heard of as Alan Partridge I mean you can't beat that can you?

1:09:29You don't like Alan Partridge. It's not that I don't like Alan Partridge.

1:09:32Boyd Hilton:I struggle with the cringeness of it. Oh, yeah, I remember. It's because he is Alan Partridge when he's hosting this show. Let's face it. It's so ill. That's the problem. Yes. Yeah, it hits too close to home. Drama series, you'll like these. Drama series, Blue Lights. Yes. Yes. Come on, Blue Lights. Code of Silence. Slow Horses. Yes. And The City is Ours. I mean, The City is Ours. It was really good. They're filming season two of that at the moment. It was a really good show. Not to be confused with We Own This City, which is a different show. that is correct and then I'll just mention leading actor in dramas female Rosalind Ellis for Codes of Silence Erin Doherty for A Thousand Blows Nigess Rashidi for Prisoner 951 and Tamara Lawrence for Get Millie Black and then lead actor male Anthony Boylan House of Guinness Bobby Schofield in Unforgivable Malachi Kirby in A Thousand Blows and Stephen Graham you may have heard of him in Adolescence and finally the limited series single drama Catering Adolescence itself forget Millie Black I fought the law and what it feels like for a girl which was excellent okay well I enjoyed that thanks me listing things Boyd reading lists is definitely a highlight of this podcast it's got the very Morgan Freeman-esque quality does he does he do yes he absolutely does it's the Oscars this Sunday it'll be over by the time this comes out but I could just read loads of lists of if you want in advance you'll have to do that in the Empire podcast I volunteer to go on the Empire podcast speaking of films Idris Elba is shooting the new Luther films there's a picture of him on set with the tie and the coat I personally love the fact that the first Luther film was so insanely stupid I enjoyed it that they're doing another one it was so stupid it wasn't enough that it was that stupid and it goes in a different direction at the end as well there's a whole set piece in Iceland isn't there just decided to have a Scandi Noir but Luther anyway is the kind of having that you know Ruth Wilson's character in Luther does make it to use a Boydism are demented.

1:11:27Yeah. And I believe she's back

1:11:28Boyd Hilton:for this film, isn't she? Do you know what? I can't remember where we left things with Alice Morgan. I thought she was dead, but she's died several times at this point. She's never going to die, that character. Never. Never. I think she's back for this sequel, but I may be right. I may have invented that. No, I think she is. I think she is back. In disappointing news, Netflix's three-body problem, which I adore, is having reduced episode counts for the coming of the season. And this is an interesting question. So it's just been reported that season two is going to run for six episodes instead of the eight of the first one, and season three might have even fewer episodes, except I thought we already knew that.

1:12:04Boyd Hilton:Yeah, I did as well. I was pretty certain that, because at one point it was like, is it just going to be films? You know, like, are they going to do them? But no, they are going to do them as series. But I thought we already knew that, but it's being reported as news, so I'm repeating it here. I thought we already knew that as well. Absolutely, 100%. Yeah, but, okay. All right, well, it's been confirmed. There you go. Okay. any other news or are we done I think we're done did you can I just say did you watch Ryan Gosling's SNL monologue I know how much you love SNL I detest SNL I know you hate SNL but I would hope that you would still watch clips somehow how good Boyd was Ryan Gosling's SNL monologue featuring Harry Styles it was great they're on a roll with SNL because they've got Harry Styles next week by the time you listen to this it'll be out and last time they had the guy from Hits Heated Rivalry yeah is that what it's called yeah he did Rivalry which was they're right on it Connor Story what's interesting yeah thank you what's interesting is SNL the UK version yes 21st of March so that's not in a couple of Saturdays time yeah they assembled the writers room did you see that they have not announced who their first guest host is are you it's not me I mean I think Harry Styles would be perfect but he's doing the American one right so he it needs to be a big star I wonder who they've got are you going to go to that taping no I feel like they'd invite you.

1:13:22Well, they haven't invited me yet. And I think I was still playing that night anyway. Wow. I'm washing my hair. I'm not going. Should we move on to this week's reviews? Yes. Let's do that.

1:13:32Boyd Hilton:Okay. Yes, please God, indeed. First up this week, we have Imperfect Women on Apple TV. This is based on Araminta Hall's novel of the same name, but it uproots her story of a friendship thruple who are forced to question just how well they knew each other after one of the three is horribly murdered. and it relocated from the UK to the US. And this one stars Kerry Washington, Elizabeth Moss and Kate Mara and it is essentially Apple's answer to Big Little Lies. So, to tell us all about the show, we turn to our very own imperfect woman, Steph Seeland. Okay, thank you James for that delightful introduction.

1:14:08So, imperfect women. I love the way you describe them as a friendship throuple. I enjoy that. So, friendship throuple, three women who think they know absolutely everything about, opens on like a nice bar scene. Very successful. They're a mix of kind of Kerry Washington's very highly successful business entrepreneurial woman. Kate Mara's got seemingly ancestral wealth as well as having married a very rich man. And then you've got Elizabeth Moss's character who is a homemaker. She's got three kids and she's a lovely husband and she's delightful. These three women who've been best friends for years there's obviously webs of secrets and lies between these three women and um it's not a spoiler to say that one of them is murdered okay and then what unravels is a the secret life of each individual woman and what has happened that's led them to this point um that's essentially it isn't it would you say yeah yeah that's what it is um you summed it up i've summed it up well done yeah I can't believe you think it's Apple's answer to Big Little Lies

1:15:21Boyd Hilton:I mean it's quite a reductive take it's a group of women but it's yeah it's a group of women it's a murder mystery something's happening all their partners are being involved and it's like and it's you know so it has it has a similarity I am now going to say every kind of sci-fi show that you say is that channel's answer to whatever other sci-fi show but also like a group of big names it's not produced by Reese Witherspoon so I guess that's something it has the feel of a show that is produced by it does it does have the feel of it Yes. Did I enjoy this show? Yes, I did enjoy it. One of my problems, I love Kerry Washington.

1:15:55One of the problems I have with watching Kerry Washington is that every, and especially in this role, where she's really assisting the husband to try and kind of unravel the mystery, is I just expect her at every turn to turn around and say, it's handled. Do you know what I mean? Her line from Scandal. and I found that really distracting you didn't watch Scandal in Scandal it is specific but I did have that kind of problem because she's playing this sort of role of keeping everything together and being very much at the forefront of trying to find out what happened to her friend with the aid of Elizabeth Moss but there is something about the character she plays in this where I could not get away from Scandal in it for me so I found that quite distracting If you didn't watch Scandal, you won't.

1:16:45Did you watch Scandal?

1:16:46Boyd Hilton:You think she brought big Olivia Pope energy? I think she did bring Olivia Pope energy. Did you? You obviously watched Scandal. I've seen Scandal, yeah. Yeah. So maybe, probably you won't agree with me, but we'll see. Anyway, yeah, it's good. Is it great? I didn't think so. It's kind of, for me, a sort of standard murder mystery with some great actresses, but I don't think it's a must-watch. It's a nice-to-have. A nice watch, not a must-watch? Yeah. This isn't the Must Watch podcast. I don't know why you're using that phrase. No, it isn't the Must Watch podcast. It's okay. Yeah, it's just... It didn't blow me away in any sense.

1:17:25What's interesting is that these mega giant talents of recent times, Kerry Washington, Kate Mara and Elizabeth Moss, are in this show. And I know they're both exec producers, Elizabeth Moss and Kerry Washington, so they're both kind of involved in the creation of it and the producing of it, picking the writer and the directors and all of that. So I can see that as being a fun thing for them to do. But the actual show is weirdly not, doesn't feel like, I've watched three out of eight, I think. It was a lot, yeah, three out of eight. And so far, I don't see what's so special about the subject or the script or the characters or the situation that makes it, that would have appealed so much to these mega talents.

1:18:15Women to do, yeah. But having said that, I'm really enjoying it. Okay. And I think in the end, I probably will see why they've chosen it. I think as, I get the feeling there's going to be enough big twists and turns from, you know, it's taking its time, isn't it, as it's playing out over eight hours. And I think in the end, it will be, hopefully, it will be, it's like I'm giving it, I'm giving it the, I'm assuming that in the end it will have enough about it which is different and interesting and provocative and audacious for it to be worth carrying on with. At the moment it's like I'm really enjoying being with these characters.

1:18:50Boyd Hilton:Are you? Yeah, I think they're fun and interesting and a bit askew. Elizabeth Moss, I mean I always come up, see I watched a couple of episodes of Scandal and I think she's great in it and I like the fact that she's bonking the young guy, the hot young guy from work and all of that, keeping that a secret. I think that's quite fun, the way she's kind of has to grapple with, has to juggle all of that with the fact, with what's going on in the main plot. But Elizabeth, it's all about Elizabeth Mottamine. She's so good in everything. And she's embodying her character who is the more, the less well-off, the less privileged, normal, in quotes.

1:19:25Obviously, they're all living in LA. She's got a pretty decent house and a nice husband. Seemingly nice husband. Although I think he's got a little bit, I think there's going to be secrets about him. I don't know for sure. But I get the Corrie Stoll character. I think there'll be stuff about him that isn't quite as great, pleasant as it is at the moment, three episodes in. But she gets obsessed by the end of episode two. Yeah. She gets obsessed with the crime and goes a bit bonkers. And I'm enjoying that because she does that brilliantly. She handles that kind of shift in a character when you find out more about her than you do in the beginning.

1:19:58I think she's already great. And I'm loving the property porn. I love the fact that Kate Mara's character, living with Joel Kinnaman without the million layers of makeup that he's got in For All Mankind, by the way. Joel Kinnaman is in every show, by the way. He is in every show. He's in the Joe Nespo thing coming up soon, which I'm going to be reviewing in a couple, maybe even next week. And he's in For All Mankind still, 95 years old. And he's in this as the really objectionable husband. He's very good in this. He's always good. He's good at playing utter trap bellends. But their house is incredible, right?

1:20:36Yeah. Fantastic. And then the house that Kerry Washington, she lives in like a kind of 80s-style loft apartment, which is just a bit weird. I know. I think... But intriguing. I think one of the things that kind of irked me about this is it kind of seemed basic in the fact you've got three women and they've all got, they're friends, but they've all got very different lives. One of them married well, one of them's an entrepreneur, and one of them's a homemaker. And I don't know whether I just thought that was a bit... Homemaker's like American for housewives. Yeah. and I just I just I don't know

1:21:07Boyd Hilton:but she did a lot of charitable works and was on the boards of many different so she wasn't I know but again that's exactly I don't know whether I really enjoyed these kind of these kind of female your life trajectory like I just I don't know whether I think it was a bit rubbish to have them like have them no sorry it's not rubbish no no that idea that's what what you're saying having very disparate background exactly so I've not read the book but the book is a British book so I wonder how tonally it's different these three friends wildly straddle the class divide here in the UK which would be if you're looking at people from different backgrounds that's kind of what you probably do I don't know I think the class conflict element is key I've seen interviews with them with the stars with Kerry Washington etc of this version that that's part of what appealed to them about the novel is that stuff like differences in yeah differences in privilege particularly among the characters which I think they do transplant aren't quite well to this setting, to the LA setting.

1:22:08I think I found it a little bit, that idea. And again, I haven't watched loads of them. So as you say, the unravelling of Elizabeth Moss' character might keep me more interested because it's always the quiet one's idea. And it becomes, as the show goes on, episodes are more focused on the individual characters. So you see them from their point of view more. It starts kind of more generally. Maybe that's what I'm sensing there. I think the thing is for me it just didn't feel in any way special there was nothing special about it to make me go you should definitely watch this because this is really good

1:22:42Boyd Hilton:this is why you were so offended when I compared it to Big Little Lies yeah because Big Little Lies is special but do you get do you know what I mean there's nothing outstanding I agree with you but I said that myself pretty much but I'm enjoying as I say I'm enjoying being with them and watching them develop and I think there's enough there are enough interesting twists and turns for me to carry on watching it and I think in the end it might be more special than we suspect okay James I love the fact that they're playing with that three way friendship dynamic because I think it's inherently interesting I love what Mike White did with that in the most recent season of the White Lotus the idea that when you have a friendship and it's three people you will get little alliances and confidences and betrayals and obviously in this when one of them dies it all comes out who she confide what into whom and you know to whom and you know not being funny but you know it transpires in a certain way, that, you know, Kate Mara and Elizabeth Moss definitely had a WhatsApp group and definitely called out Kerry Washington for using the word egregious overtly.

1:23:40It is very much like this podcast. It was implied.

1:23:42Boyd Hilton:It was very implied. So, but I thought that, I thought that was quite interesting about the Kate Mara had confided in one person about the person she was sleeping with and then she confides with the other one about something else. And there's almost a little bit of one-upmanship about, you know, she's not, you're not the only one she confided in. And then also we're playing with the narrational aspects as well, aren't we? Because we shift into different points of view. It's like, well, how reliable is this narration? So it's interesting. And I think, yeah, Elizabeth Moss was definitely the most interesting character in that because there's, you get the impression there's a lot going on with that character.

1:24:15Boyd Hilton:And she's really spiky at times as well. Like she has a lot of fun with it. All of that said, I know what you mean in the, I thought, this is good. I'm enjoying it. It's well produced. It looks nice. It's directed by Leslie Linker Glutter. Like it's, you know, it's really well put together. But I thought, but it's not like, it's not like I was like, oh my god I'm now obsessed I need to watch all of these there's no oomph is there there's a little lack of oomph yeah I could have done with more oomph I think there's enough oomph to keep going okay but you've watched you've watched four you have watched more and as Steph is very fond of saying I don't think we can really judge it having not watched as many episodes and I hold my hands up to say that maybe if I'd watched four I would have a different take on it but I wasn't drawn in I just I don't know fair enough I wasn't feeling it at all okay well yeah I'm wrong maybe you should you are But you agreed with me that it was unspecial to use a non-word.

1:25:08Yeah, but I think there's enough in it for me to keep on going. That's what I'm saying. Okay, in a world where Big Little Lies is... Obsessed with Big Little Lies comparison. Okay, because you started it. I did. Where would you say it falls? I feel I need to watch the rest of it to answer that question. Okay. Because I think if you think about it, even Big Little Lies, part of the brilliance, and I agree with you, is absolutely a standout, brilliant show. In this world, funnily enough, we're talking about female-led shows. But it's the whole thing, isn't it? It's everything about including the actual ending, the explanation.

1:25:43The final episode of the first series

1:25:45Boyd Hilton:is incredibly good. So it's all, I can't separate that whole series from how it ends up. Something you've only watched part of. Yeah, okay. I think this has the potential to be up there with it. I do think it has the potential. With this cast, I mean, it's totally elevated by the cast. these three brilliant actresses. And yeah, so I kind of have heartache. But I think with Big Little Lies, it was immediately, you enjoyed every episode, whereas with this, I don't know whether you will. But you know what? Let's just, let's see. Let's see what the people think. Let's just see. Imperfect Women then, which airs on the Apple TV Plus.

1:26:19Boyd Hilton:Boy, when does it start? It's just what Apple TV needs to say. It is, that's true. But it's always going to be plus to me. Yeah, of course. Like Amazon Prime Video. Can I just also make the point that you know what is basically becoming an additional character in every single American show? Cornholes. Do you know what? I had the same thought because we had Cornholes recently. How are we back with Cornholes again? Cornholes in Rooster. Cornholes in Shrinking. Cornholes in Imperfect Women. Cornholes are everywhere. The DTF show. DTF, Cornholes. DTF, that had Cornholes. That's mad, yeah. Or maybe I'm thinking of DTF because we did that the same week as Rooster.

1:26:53Anyway, they're everywhere. Are there Cornholes in Rooster? No, there probably aren't. I'm thinking DTF. Cornholes. You know, the beanbag throwing thing, by the way. Anyway, Disney, Apple TV, not Plus, Wednesday the 18th of March, 2026.

1:27:08Boyd Hilton:Good stuff. Next up, we have A Woman of Substance on Channel 4, and this is the latest stab at adapting Barbara Taylor Bradford's 1979 novel, one which Channel 4, of course, themselves did famously back in 1984, with Jenny Seagrove and Deborah Kerr as Emma Hart, and Liam Neeson, Big Liam, was in that as well. This version, however, sees Brenda Blethen as Emma with Jessica Reynolds as her younger self. And it tells this era-spanning tale of a former housemaid who pulls herself up by her bootstraps, mainly to have her revenge on the upper-class Fairley family who cast her out. And to tell us this tale of cold-blooded revenge and class war, we turn to our very own woman of substance, Steph Seelan.

1:27:48Oh, God, no. Oh, God. It's such a women's movie.

1:27:51Boyd Hilton:Oh, my God. Right, okay. I was like, I thought you were going to do a brilliant joke about me, avoid being a woman of substance. Oh, boy, do you do it. No, no. This is International Steph Week. Wow. Okay, right. Women of substance. Okay, so... I don't know why he's doing this. I don't know why he's doing this to me. It's good. I can relax. I'll just chill. Okay, right. So, obviously, we open and see that with the brilliant Brenda Blethin in contemporary times, and she's in her fancy car, and... Is it contemporary times? It's more contemporary. Is it 60s, 70s? Yeah, 70s, actually. Okay, this is where you should do it.

1:28:27Like, it's more contemporary than, you know, than it reverses. Yeah, than it flashes back to. Sure. Boy, do you want to just do it? No, you're fine, so you'll finish. Can you? Go on. No, you can't do this again now. Okay. Anyway, and then the first episode, basically, is the story of, you find out how you introduce a young Emma Hart, who is working as a maid in a big estate. And the first episode is essentially positioning her and the reason why she has wanted to get the revenge on this terrible family that have done her so wrong. Jessica Reynolds plays the young Emma Hart and plays it fantastically.

1:29:05And she is very poor and her family are very poor and it's juxtaposed with this very rich family. And Emmett J. Scanlon plays Adam Fairley who is the father in the house and he's also in everything at the moment, can I just say, don't you think? Oh, it's true. He is an app. You cannot move for him. He's ubiquitous. He's been in everything for years. But he's really a lot in this more than he is normally, shall we say. He's really a lot. We're not going to get to. Yes. Yes, he is very much a lot in this. Anyway. So, yeah. So it's kind of got a bit of a... Like, it's a flashback, isn't it? It's very flashback-y.

1:29:41Is that a tie? They intercut. Yeah, they intercut. It starts with her in the 70s and then... In contemporary times. In contemporary times. and it flashes back to decades previously when she was a youngster and it keeps intercutting between her in the late, in contemporary times and her story as she gets older and older and older

1:30:02Boyd Hilton:and has her session. It's a rip-roaring rampage of revenge. Like Kill Bill with more silver tea service. Very much so. There's a lot of tea. Very much so. I want to say that there's a scene in this. I really don't think it, you know, the book is, Are you referring to the sex cave? No, I'm not going to... I do enjoy the sex cave, but there's a scene in this which actually made me cry because I thought it was so incredibly beautiful and well done. And it is a scene featuring Will Mellor and Emma Hart's mother and the death of Emma Hart's mother. And it was so poetic and it was so incredibly beautiful.

1:30:43The scenic, it was just... It made me cry. It was so wonderful. If you're going to watch for nothing else but this scene, it's really, really amazing. You know the scene I'm talking about. Boy, did you cry? I did not cry, no. It's a lovely scene. It's a lovely scene. It's on the moors where they're all wailing. It's on the moors. They're wailing with... I'm just going to say, he takes his wife and she says it's time and then he takes her to the top of a hillside and they're all there together as a family and it's just really magical. it's beautiful isn't it it is lovely it's a lovely

1:31:20Boyd Hilton:lovely scene okay so yes we've got illicit affairs we've got maids and the you know the men of the house and it is very racy in terms of sexy times okay there is a sex cave absolutely and there is and there is a sex cave Boyd did you enjoy the sex cave wow it's interesting well I know this is a bonk buster isn't it it's trying to be basically the rivals of you know the of a kind of period drama meets rivals kind of thing almost like Bridgerton-y rivals-y and even though they've already adapted this book in the early days on Channel 4 and it was their biggest hit ever at the time probably it might still be the biggest hit ever it's a bit I feel like I'm not sure I was trying to find out when this was commissioned and according to Wikipedia Channel 4 announced it in 2025, which would definitely be post-Rivals.

1:32:19I just feel like this would possibly not have happened without the success of Rivals. And what's different, of course, is that Rivals is a very funny, entertaining, knockabout, bonkbuster, right? In which, you know, Rivals is a show in which, in practically the first scene, you see the hero's knob. So, you know, it sets the tone. And his backhand. Yeah. Thank you, yeah. Whereas this is more melodrama. You know what it is? It's like Poldark meets Rivals. It's got that Poldark-y quality. Yeah, it has got a Poldark quality. Of kind of big, heroic, rich people. And it's on the moors. It's on the moors.

1:33:00It's got Wuthering Heights as well. Very topical. But it's quite serious in tone. It's definitely not. It is. It's like Dowerton Abbey. oh very good god it's good amazing and I have an issue with that so for me if you're gonna do a bog buster kind of big you know thing raunchy thing with as you say sex the character losing your virginity in the cave the sex cave you've got to go full on and I think this feels to me like they're they haven't it's not full on it's quite serious it takes itself quite seriously that's the thing you talk about which is beautifully shot and acted and everything but it's quite intense It is intense.

1:33:42So it's going for a different vibe. Tonal shifts. Tonal shifts. Well, just its tone is a bit, for me, is a bit bleak. When you then get to the kind of sex-based storylines, which reminded me, again, of Bridgerton, it's quite specific. And particularly, when I was... They could do a revival of this bonkbuster, famous at the time for being raunchy. That was why it did so well in the ratings, because it became a notoriously raunchy show. We should say, we should say, at 13.8 million viewers,

1:34:11Boyd Hilton:the original Woman of Substance is still Channel 4's biggest hit. That is outstanding. And it was a massive hit because of the sex. It was all about the sex. Right. And this is still all about, but it's very Emmett Scanlon-based sex. He gets the majority of the sex stuff going on, which I was not expecting, I have to say. And, for example, the losing of the virginity scene, I think he's a bit I thought it was a bit you know nothingy and not sold on the sex cave I'm not sold on the sex cave I'm not sold on the sex cave you are not a sex cave fan maybe the Emmett sex thing was you know we were having that discussion last part about the fact that we're seeing more male sexiness than we are female sexiness at the moment well except yeah we certainly see a lot more of Emmett Scanlon and I love him he's great he is great and it's quite fun to see him he usually does he usually plays in How to Get to Heaven from Belfast he that's the classic Scanlon role he's very good at playing bearded wrongun wrongun juicy wrongun in that show The Tower on ITV he was a wrongun oh and the Harlan Coburn Michelle Keegan he's been in quite a few of the Harlan Coburns as a dodgy guy it's quite interesting to see he's still a twat I mean he's like a privileged but he's the kind of main rich privileged guy who's got weird sexual things going on with his wife and his mistress and various other who's actually his sister-in-law exactly and all of that is it should be more fun than it actually is.

1:35:38It's not fun, is it? No. No, it isn't fun. And I lay the blame at that tone that is just a bit, it's a bit miserable for a bonk buster. And actually, do you know what? It really comes to life when Brenda Blethenne arrives in the... In contemporary times. In contemporary times. Because you want to say present day, but of course it's not present day, it's the 70s. But her storming around her huge building in New York and, you know, and all of that. And she has good lines, good dialogue because she shouts at her minions and all of that. She's trying to rescue her company and everything. So I liked all of that.

1:36:12I wanted more of that, really, and less of the kind of slightly surprisingly miserable period stuff. I think it does damage the quality of it that it intercuts, actually. Did the original, I haven't seen the original adaption channel 4, did that do, is that device okay? I think that device is, I think that's in the book, and I think it was in the original TV show as well, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember it that well, but I've got a feeling it does intercut. And I'm happy with the intercutting, by the way. I just need more of Brenda and less of the others. I feel like maybe I would have been happier with it if it was more linear, actually.

1:36:49It was a more linear narrative and I just saw that part. Usually I have that issue with, you know,

1:36:54Boyd Hilton:that I did with the Nicole Kidman. See, I had the opposite thought for you. Much as I love Brenda Blethen, I couldn't care less about the 70s stuff. I was much more invested in the period setting. Yeah. So I wanted to stay back in that. That's what I'm saying. I think I would have been more happy if it was, yeah, you stayed in that setting. Because then I thought every time you really got into that, then Brenda Blethen popped up and she was a bit cross. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, she definitely is a bit cross a lot. Yeah. So what did you think of the... Like I said, it's fine. I thought Jessica Reynolds was really good as the young Emma Hart.

1:37:28Boyd Hilton:I was quite taken in by that upstairs-downstairs story. It doesn't have the texture. of something which is obviously more committed to that, you know, that tapestry like Downs and Abbey or something like that, but it's not that kind of show. But the Downton Abbey thing was genuinely something that I was thinking of when I was watching it. I was like, this is quite heavy. And I don't mean like heavy, weighty plot, it's just the tonally, it's just quite leaden. And I just thought, because this is essentially a sort of a, you know, period set shag-a-thon, like it's not having enough fun. And, you know, Rivals, you know, I liked, I didn't watch all of Rivals, but Rivals was very much focusing on the fun.

1:38:05Boyd Hilton:Absolutely, yeah. And this does take itself very, very seriously. And I don't think that's necessarily like a, you know, it's not a problem, but it just means it doesn't skip along in the same way that it kind of could have done. But I enjoyed the period stuff. I kind of obviously know, broadly speaking, where the plot is going. So I'm open to watching more of it and seeing where it goes. I think the genre they're going for is melodrama, and that tends to take itself seriously. It's almost part of the whole point of a melodrama, is that you have a lot of vivid stuff going on, which can often be to do with sex and relationships and illicit romances, right?

1:38:47But at the same time, it's not trying to be ultra-realistic. But equally, this is trying to be a little bit more self-serious than it needs to be, I do think. And the cast is great, it's got a great cast. You've got people like, you know, Lenny Rush is really good in it as part of that family. Oh, Lenny Rush is fantastic. He's great. Oh, God, there's a really devastating scene when they're trying to get to the mother's deathbed. Yeah, I agree, yeah. And there is, who did I want to mention? Will Mellor. Olivia Wainwright. Will Filtz from Gavin and Stacey, who is, he was the guy on the, you know, what happened on the fishing trip with Rob Ryder, right?

1:39:21And he's the horrible, nasty head of the servants. He's like Mr. Carson. yeah he's Mr Carson but really nasty really horrible he's a bellend Mr Carson

1:39:29Boyd Hilton:yeah he's a bellend Mr Carson so but I go back to my I think my issue at the end this is going to sound really basic but if you're going to do a bonk buster the bonking has to be slightly more vivid and yeah than it is in this so far you know so you wanted more vivid bonking so disappointed by the sex scenes you need the Emily Atac heaving bosom kind of you know oopsie kind of yeah well you don't it doesn't have to be comedic like that don't go full Barbara Windsor no but it does a little bit we're living in a world where you've got Bridgerton you've got Rivals you've got other things Vladimir Vladimir there's a lot of sex around on TV there's a lot of sex around and if you're going to remake a show that's renowned for its sex scenes literally that was what they got 30 million viewers excited about you end up with this so far it's a bit disappointing well I think they're going to be upset if it's still if it remains their most the highest watched ever show this is not going to be that is it this is not going to surpass that I would it seems doubtful absolutely not I mean it can't we're living in a different world now anyway yes I mean if it gets you know 3, 4, 5 million viewers that'll be a triumph I don't know whether it will I'm not sure either we'll see but Brenda Blethen is a huge pull let's just say that isn't she she's a pull she's fantastic oh yeah great she's great but yeah A Woman of Substance then Channel 4 starting on the 11th of March which is today as we record yes which would have been last week as we go out correct yes that's how time works finally this week we have The Other Bennett Sister and this is another period drama but this one based on the novel by Janice Hadlow which reimagines Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice from the perspective of the perennially overlooked Mary Bennett played here by Ella Bruckoleri with Ruth Jones and Richie Grant playing Mama and Papa or Mama and Papa Bennett.

1:41:25Boyd Hilton:You've obviously already heard from Pruth Jones and Ella Brackett-Lerry in our maverick gorilla interview that we just dropped in randomly. But here to describe this literary romp through Regency England is the other Sealand sister, Steph. Love it. We're celebrating International Women's Week by personal duty. Boyd, please do. No, I'm going with a joke. It's not International Boyd Day. It's a good joke. Yeah, I like it. Okay. Fans of Pride and Prejudice will be thrilled to know that now you will get to see, as James has already said, the story of Mr. Darcy through the eyes of the sort of genius sister, Mary.

1:42:12Okay? So you get to see everything that's happening around it, all the balls, everything that you know about, if you know anything about Pride and Prejudice, and Mary standing on the sidelines and her sort of mistreatment by her mother, played by Ruth Jones, and how she decides to change the course of her life because her mother believes that she's not going to marry well and she is, you know, symbolising her being the other Bennet sister and she decides that she's going to just be an intellectual. And basically it's Mary's story. isn't it, Boyd? Yes. We know she decides to become a designer because she wears glasses.

1:42:57Yes. And the glasses turn out to be a key plot point. They are key, yes. And her mum, Ruth Jones, is absolutely furious that she's going ahead with wearing glasses. And not only that, the optician she gets glasses from is a potential lover interest. And Ruth Jones is brilliantly furious for the whole idea of her mingling with someone who owns a store. With a bell. With a bell. Yes, which Ruth points out in my interview, our random interview, which she very much enjoyed. I think it's really hard to imagine anything better than whatever you choose as your favourite Pride and Prejudice adaption. Whatever you choose, it's really hard to imagine anything better.

1:43:38So that's why I think this is incredibly clever, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think Ruth Jones is remarkable as Mrs. Bennet. She is a Mrs. Bennet. I didn't know I needed, but I'm so happy. And Richard E. Grant, as well as Mr. Bennett, they've both done something that I didn't really think was possible. I mean, I'm sure you're going to say no, but I'm a massive fan of Keira Knightley. I'm a massive fan of that Pride and Prejudice. So I didn't think it was possible to get a better Mrs. Bennett and Mr. Bennett. and not that they say they're better, but they do bring something else. They bring something else magical to those roles, which I didn't think was possible.

1:44:25They're great characters, though. They're great roles. They are great characters, but they've been played by incredible actors already. So you think, oh, okay, well, is it just going to be another one? No, I think Ruth Jones brings something else to that role, which is, for me, the massive pull of this. She is the pull of this. She really is for me. She's great. Yeah. I thoroughly enjoyed it I like this view I really like seeing that main narrative be on the outskirts of Mary's life it's really clever also because it takes the idea that among these five sisters she's kind of like the runt of the litter isn't she and is treated as such by her own mother which I was talking to in the now notorious guerrilla interview that just how horrible she is is pretty no holds barred because she kind of like completely is completely active in the lives of the four other sisters in finding them potential husbands and sorting out the issue with the house that they're living in and getting someone in because they need to stay in that house and there are whole issues surrounding that but she's incredibly dismissive and cruel really emotionally cruel to Mary who's brilliant also Ella Bricoleri is brilliant in that role she's been in Call the Middle she's been in Call the Middle for years she's just got an incredible look about her and the scene where she plays the piano which I talked also to the interview the scene where she plays the piano she sings badly and everyone's embarrassed for her and she perseveres she wants to do another song she's so good in it she's really and it's hard because you know she's playing a character who's put upon but I think she gives a real I think apparently the TV version she's slightly feistier in this version than she's in the novel she's a true heroine in this but that whole idea that she's the invisible one she's almost the invisible woman with her all her sisters and her parents she's really well done it's a great idea it is a great idea Janice Hadlow's book Janice Hadlow was head of BBC2 by the way before she became a best-selling novelist that she is now because this is a really hugely popular book I think they've done a brilliant job and you're right the casting is genius.

1:46:42Richard E. Grant and Ruth Jones together are fantastic and he spends most of his time reading the paper and just every now and then commenting on what's going on, commenting on his ludicrous wife and kind of trying to maintain some level of civility with poor Mary as well and it's just it's really well done, it's really brilliantly cast there's other kind of guest appearances by actors who are brilliant in it as well and I loved it, I thought they did of great shows. Yeah, it's just, it's rare that you get a chance to enjoy such a beloved tale from a different perspective. And they've done it and they've done it to great effect.

1:47:18It's wonderful.

1:47:20Boyd Hilton:Are you a general Austin fan? Are you mainly a Pride and Prejudice fan? Like, where is your... I would say, generally, I mean, Pride and Prejudice is my favourite. And I will, I have watched all Pride and Prejudice. Crucially watched there, the word. Yes. No, obviously, I read Pride and Prejudice. Oh, obviously. Yeah, of course. I mean, most people... It's basically Colin Firth coming out of the lake in his... Matthew McFadden for Steph. It is Matthew McFadden for me. It really, really is. I loved... I actually worked at Empire at the time that Pride and Prejudice came out. You did? And I can remember all of you being really shitty about it.

1:47:57I don't remember. Yeah, you were. It's that International Women's Day. Yeah, and I was like, it's International fucking Women's Day. No, and yeah, and I really loved it. I love Keira Knightley in that role. Yeah, she's good. Oh, thank you. On behalf of Keira Knightley, I said thank you. As a representative. Yeah. But yeah, it is rare, as I said. Olivia Colman's playing the Reuteronomy in the Netflix adaptation, which is coming soon. Oh, is she? I think it's Harry Lawty, I think. I may have got that role. I'll now have to look it up.

1:48:26Boyd Hilton:No, you do have to look it up, yes. But this is a lot of fun. I can't say that I'm an Austin aficionado. Really? Does that shock you? I don't understand you at all. I really don't understand the Downton thing. It's such an anomaly in your kind of dismissiveness of this kind of period drama. I don't know that I'm dismissive. I actually quite like a period drama if it grabs me. There's something about Downton. Downton has a sense of humour that just really tickles me. Like, it really does. It has a very dry sense of humour that I enjoy enormously. Remind me how many Bridgertons you've watched. None.

1:48:59Boyd Hilton:I've watched the first episode of season two, the first episode of season three, because we covered them on this podcast. We didn't do season one, because it came out on Christmas Day, I think. I think, going along with your watching things beginning with B, you should start to watch Bridgerton Night. It's only because they have like harpsichord covers of Charlie XCX and stuff on the soundtrack. Oh my God. Yeah, and Billie Eilish. They do an incredible Billie Eilish cover. Yeah, sorry. Anyway, carry on with this. Let me just say, correct myself, it's Jack Loudon, not Harry Lutz. Oh, I see. I see.

1:49:26I could get ladies out, but I don't mind. You know, I found out. In fact, Emma Corrin is Elizabeth Bennett. it's got a really good cast Darren McCormack's in it Rufus Sewell is Mr. Bennett Rufus yes and Olivia Colman as I did get right as Mrs. Bennett I love Rufus Sewell in a period drama Rufus Sewell is fabulous yeah but anyway

1:49:44Boyd Hilton:it's a lot of fun I did like it I wasn't you know possibly quite as in love with it as you were but I was like this is absolutely good it does exactly what it wants to do well it has a really nice thread of humour Ella Bricolari has excellent face acting and I always appreciate that her reaction shots and she has many of them are fabulous in the interview, funnily enough. Because there's always, because this show, a lot of it is people talking about her in front of her. Yes. And so you always have this sort of long-suffering, like, stiff-faced, like... It's interesting how they negotiate the luxism of the story as well, really.

1:50:18Because she, you know, basically what they're saying is she's the ugly sister. Ugly one, yeah. And it's, you know, it's quite interesting, but I think they navigate that very well. Well, glasses will do that, apparently. It is all about glasses. Once you've got a pair of spectacles. Yeah, they do the glasses And they kind of ruffle up her hair, don't they? And then, you know, that's what passes for... It's the fact that James isn't wearing glasses, and I am in the bald, middle-aged guy. Does that make him much sexier than me? Clearly. Absolutely not. There is none more sexy than a Boyd Hilton.

1:50:46Thanks. I was grasping for that, obviously. You know you need to grasp, my friend.

1:50:52Boyd Hilton:The Other Bennett Sister. Yes. Which is on BBC One, Boydie. When? Started on Sunday on BBC One, and we'll carry on Sundays. and I think the episodes are only half hour long. I think they're showing them in double bills so it's like, okay. Yeah, they are. So it's like, oh, okay. What else is out this week? What have we missed? Well, what else is out this week? Let me just... Now I can ruffle. Customry Russell. I can rustle. Yeah, you can rustle away. Well, you're not going to mention it so I will say for our animation-loving listeners that Invincible Season 4 lands on the Prime video on, I believe, Wednesday the 18th.

1:51:26Boyd Hilton:Do you know what? I actually did preview in heat. Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm shocked. Yeah. Shocked, I tell you. Jury Duty Company Retreat is on Amazon Prime Video. Prime Video, it's just Prime Video, it's not Amazon. And this is the spin-off of Jury Duty. Yeah, you remember Jury Duty was that really clever show where one guy on the jury was a real person. I love that show. And it's James Marsden is the... James Marsden is a genius, wasn't it? It's brilliant. James Marsden's... Oh, God, James Marsden is so good. Who's in this one? Is there a quote-unquote person in this one? I don't know if there is.

1:51:56I don't think there is, actually. There can't be because they'd sniff it out. Yeah, you would, wouldn't you? I think this time it's all about, it's not a jury situation either, this time it's all about a company's annual retreat, as the title suggests, and somewhere in the middle of it is a temp worker who's caught in the middle of a corporate takeover, and that temp worker is the real person. So he's surrounded by actors playing, this company playing, you know. Oh, okay, so they might not sniff it out then. Well, not sniff out the whole story, but I don't know if there's a famous person in it.

1:52:22I don't think there is a famous person in it. Oh, oh, okay. But still, no. I want there to be a James,

1:52:29Boyd Hilton:James Marston is amazing and he's in the new season of Your Friends and Neighbours. And he's really good in that. That man does not age as well. No, no. He's fabulous. He's like, what's his face? Ant-Man. Yeah, he's fun. He was at the Apple thing I went to in Santa Monica. Of course he was. Did you go to an Apple thing in Santa Monica? Last one laughing is back. You remember that huge word of mouth phenomenon? Oh, yes. All the comedians gather together and see which of them can stay longest without laughing. it's a brilliant format it was really good first series but the cast I know the comedians they've got together for this second series are unbelievable hit us with one of your sexy lists David Mitchell Diane Morgan even James likes Diane Morgan I do yeah and he's a hater of comedy Romesh Ranganathan heat favourite Maisie Adam Mel Gedroik of Mel and Sue fame Alan Carr the actual national hero Alan Carr Bemisola Okumelo absolutely brilliant wow Sam Campbell who's very good and Bob Mortimer back as the winner trying to defending his trophy.

1:53:28So that's very good. That's on, when are you saying it was on? Thursday, Prime Video. Comic Relief is on Friday, I should mention that. There'll be some sketches, funny sketches in that. Dermot's done a funny sketch with Alison. Oh, has he? Yeah. And Nan is doing his back, the character, played by Catherine Tate. Catherine Tate, yeah. And she's co-hosting it. The Madison, the aforementioned Madison, oh, that started on Saturday, sorry. That's that Yellowstone spin-off, James, for Madison. Oh, Deadlock, Deadlock, remember that? Yes. Yes. Australian dark comedy, whodunit type thing. That's back for a second season on Prime Video on Friday.

1:53:59And that was a quite good show, actually. Oh, Borders came back on Sunday. Do you know what my, one of my favourite things about when Boyd does this at the end is like, as he's turning the pages, his level of surprise of the things that he has written about is so... Because I don't remember. I wrote about eight years ago. Oh my God, this show's... Oh, I wrote that. Oh God. It's pretty, it's, no, it's endearing. It really is. I've always wanted to be... Do you know what I mean? It really is. I love you so much. Borders, the really good show you're kidding shut up we love you we love you so much it started on Sunday that'll be on iPlayer all of it it's really good created by Daniel Lawrence Taylor it's about the black kids who go to the school the privileged school as scholarship students and have to face the racism of society oh delightful it's really good show I want to watch that really good show the Marlowe Murder Club is on Wednesday which is like a cosy crime oh no no hard no you and drama or you hate cosy crime hard no for cosy okay that's on you and drama on Wednesday at 8 o 'clock I think that might be about it but well other than that puts an end to the shock and awe of TV's voice page

1:55:07Boyd Hilton:also on Friday the 20th on Netflix by order of the Peaky Blinders the movie Peaky Blinders Immortal Man is it TV? it is a movie and it lands on the Netflix on the 20th the last episode of the Empire podcast by the way was slightly marred for me by the fact you had loads of people wanging on about the Peaky Blinders film who haven't seen the show. You've seen every episode of the show. I know, but crucially, I couldn't make any of the screenings of the film. However, do you know where I'm going directly from this podcast? I'm going directly to a screening of the Peaky Blinders movie now. So I am going to see it.

1:55:37Boyd Hilton:And we should discuss it on this podcast either on Pilot Plus or on the main show because it is germane to what we do. It's germane. Germane. Not egregious, but germane. Totally germane. That's right. Okay, right. Brilliant. What's our pick of the week? Oh, Bennett Sister. The other Bennett Sister. Yeah, no, there's nothing. Don't disagree. I guess that's the one I'm going to choose then. Okay, super. Right, well, we hope you have enjoyed this female-friendly episode of the Pilot TV Podcast as hosted by Steph Seeland. It's not been very female-friendly. It's been very put on the spot, you know, mean.

1:56:11Boyd Hilton:No, I put you in the spotlight, Steph, in the spotlight. All right. Do you know what I'm going to do directly after this? What? I'm going to text my friend Kay. Oh, I bet you will. So, oh, unbelievable. It was an egregious episode of the podcast. I hated it. She's egregiously not done a... Leave her alone, okay? If you do not subscribe to Pilot Plus and you would like to understand the in-jokes that we so rudely bring into this episode, then, you know, feel free to subscribe. It's not very much. And we'd appreciate it. Thanks very much. We will be back in your ears next week. What is on next week?

1:56:41Boyd Hilton:Not being funny, there is a lot on next week. Because HBO Max launches next week. So you've got the comeback season three, you've got The Pit season one and the beginning of The Pit season two. We can dedicate the whole podcast to that. What else is happening? Bait is coming to Prime. Daredevil Born Again comes to Disney+. Oh, my God. Joe Nesbo's Detective Hula, as it is pronounced, not whole. Don't Google it. Comes to Netflix. Oh, my God. There's so much happening. Something Very Bad is Going to Happen on Netflix. And that's the name of a show, not a prediction. Why are you two talking? You're talking at the same time.

1:57:16It's kind of weird. You're very cheeky. I know. I think Sashia Woodson's got to your head. It really has. It's elevated me. It's elevated my station. I'm looking down on you two. I was slightly interrupting. Now carry on. And the new season of For All Mankind. Yes. Lands on Apple.

1:57:31Boyd Hilton:It's a very busy week. I don't know what we're going to do because it depends on the embargoes. You haven't even mentioned, but Martin Clunes is in the one-off Channel 5 drama, The Downfall of Hugh Edwards. Oh, the film, the film, The Downfall of Hugh Edwards. It's a one-off drama. Oh, is it? Martin Clunes is Hugh Edwards. Fascinating. It's not on the calendar. Just saying. I'll put it on the camera. Okay, brilliant. Thank you so much for listening. We do hope you enjoy the show and we hope you've enjoyed this International Steph Day. Oh, God. Special installment of the Pilot TV podcast. I'm sorry.

1:58:01Boyd Hilton:Fuck the patriarchy. Pilot's out. I hate you. That was really funny.