It: Welcome To Derry, Trigger Point, and Art Detectives. With guest Stephen Merchant

28:53In fact, he made it last week when that aired on Skymax. and I jumped at the chance to talk to him about The Walking Dead, except we did talk about The Walking Dead, but it also, we ended up talking about a great many, let's say, un-Walking Dead related things. Yeah, it took a turn. Like what? You name it. Rhyming slang, Pearly Kings, The East End, stand-up comedy. I should have done this interview. It was a very kind of rambling all over the place kind of chat. I'm here for that. I love a ramble chat. Yeah, I had a great time with it. It was a lot of fun. And we even talked about The Office. I'm glad that you had a great time.

29:26Hey, Hey, I didn't see you tripping over yourselves to do a Walking Dead interview. Well, I would have tripped over myself to do a Stephen Merchant interview, as quite rightly, he's ended up. Well, that's true. No fighting is done. It's done. But, you know, you don't know your zombies. That's your problem. Yeah. Anyway, Walking Dead, Dara Dixon, which you can watch now on Skymax. And this is Stephen Merchant talking to me. Good morning, Stephen. Welcome to the Pilot TV Podcast. Where are you dialing in from today? From some temporary accommodation. Very nice. Yeah, I'm doing some renovations in our house.

29:55So, yeah, we're just in someone else's place at the moment. But you're over here in the UK as opposed to over across the pond? In the UK, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. Very nice. And obviously it's nice to be in the UK, given that you played the last Englishman in England from Madrid, which is obviously a different way of doing it. Yeah, I don't know if that's a spoiler or not, but they sent me the script for this Daryl Dixon Walking Dead show. And like you say, first thing I read, it's all in London. I'm like, bingo, I'm in London, got a place here. and they said we're shooting it all in Madrid and I was like okay but I don't know I've been in this business a while now and I've been on sets small and large and there is something still very thrilling when you see a quite anonymous street transformed with the aid of some London an old London bus and a black cab and a red letter box red phone box into a London street and yet you're in sort of in sweltering kind of summer Madrid heat it's just it's still exciting to me it's still a thrill I mean, I've noticed a trend, I don't know if you've seen this, where we Brits do not do well in the zombie apocalypse, like, ever.

31:02I mean, you've seen 28 years later, right? You've seen, like, the Danny Boyle films. It's pretty tough, isn't it? We're fucked, right? And it feels like this is a consistent theme. I wonder why that is. Does anyone do well in a zombie apocalypse, though? I mean, generally, they're fairly bad news, aren't they? I mean, I'm trying to think of an example where it was just kind of easygoing for people. they embraced they embraced the zombie bite uh i think i would probably be one of those people that would just give up quite quickly you know what i mean that's your survival plan i've often thought that about if i was in the old west like i just think it just looks too much hard work it does yeah you know and just and i just think oh what you've got build your own house on the prairie and you're fending off wild animals and you know i just know just give in so you'd never get past episode one of Deadwood is what you're saying.

31:53Oh, goodness me. No, no, no. I'd be done for. I'd be gunned down in the streets for being lily-livered immediately. Or I just wouldn't be able to get a decent glasses prescription. Oh, yes. You know what I mean? That would be a great anxiety to me. It does seem to me that you only survived in the Old West or in medieval times if your eyesight was 20. Yes. Otherwise you were done for, weren't you? 100%. I always wonder that. Like, if you're being sent to prison or something, right? Like, do you think, shit, I've got to go out and get LASIK before they sentence me? Because if I'm in prison and I can't see, I'm fucked.

32:24Oh, 100%. Well, you know, my approach, if I'm ever in prison, is I'm going to try and get the nickname The Professor. So I'm going to wear the glasses all the time, and I'm going to be the guy that's, like, helping the inmates write letters to their loved ones. Yeah. You know, because in my mind, they don't write very well. You know what I mean? Or I'm helping them study. I work in the library. And hopefully they'll just let me keep myself to myself. you're the Andy Dufresne aren't you you're essentially taking the Shawshank route without any attempt to escape no posters on the wall whatsoever no you were saying that the Brits don't do well in the zombie apocalypse Andrew Lincoln obviously had done quite well he did it for over a decade yes he did have an American accent he did and I think that was the key and a big gun which of course we Brits don't traditionally have so you know but what I really love about this is that it the Englishness of it feels quite authentic and I always think americans don't do englishisms generally very well but like your introduction in the show you know cycling helmet everything about it uh a particularly i would say inventive contortion of cockney slang all of that just i thought was wonderful was all of this in the script when you got there or did you did you give it a bit of a polish well um they i thought they had done i thought what was one of the reasons i was excited to do it was that i had never really followed the original mothership series closely i was a sort of fairweather fan and um and then for whatever reason i just started watching daryl dixon when it came on i just i liked it because if you haven't seen it you know uh daryl is a sort of man with no name although he's called daryl the kind of figure who's wandering across sort of zombie apocalypse france and and then carol shows up carol and darryl i like that it's rhymes that that's helpful and and so anyway so that so i I was very kind of charred by it because it didn't feel like you had to see all the other series to understand what was going on.

34:11I was just sort of in. And so what I liked about this one was firstly that it was the first time we had seen the Walking Dead universe in London or in England. Yeah. And that was exciting just to see just the thought of a sort of post-zombie apocalypse London. And inevitably you're going to see the tourist sites. You're going to see Big Ben and Tower Bridge, London Bridge and so on. You're not Tower Bridge. You're not going to see just like a random, you know, Pizza Express. you're gonna see the hallmarks although they should have um so i was kind of excited just and also when they said he was the last man in england i was like oh this is really fun because i think if you're thinking of zombie apocalypses i'm not the face you're picturing as the one person that would have survived um and so that was very exciting to me and then uh they seem to be quite thoughtful about the englishness of it they they like you say they gave me what dr martin's to wear and like you say the bicycle helmet and then like you said they had a kind of cockney rhyming slang bit which i which admittedly in the original draft didn't quite make sense there wasn't really any rhyming just cockney slang and so they did let me rewrite that bit and so i tried to use real rhyming slang yeah and kind of link it all together um but it's not quite how you'd use rhyming slang but i think you know it's close enough it's a little more authentic than it would have been yeah yeah but other than that they were um i thought they did a nice job and you know there's moments where you kind of were sailing down the thames under tower bridge and all of that was shot in basically a glorified swimming pool just outside madrid we didn't once go to london it's kind of extraordinary yeah i mean that is wild but it's also i mean genuinely that is is wild about the rhyming slang i always think like no one who hasn't at one point lived in london can understand what rhyming slang is and i always think remember in world war ii where the americans used wind talkers they spoke in navajo because they were like the nazis can never break this code i was like how were we not getting pearly kings out there and they were doing all our comms over the radio because we'd have won the war in a heartbeat just about 10 years sooner is it still being used you don't hear it often not a lot i've been in London for 20 odd years I don't think I've ever heard anyone say oh my plates and my plates of meat are killing me I mean it's true although I will say I was in Hampstead a few years ago and two pearly kings walked into a pub sounds like the beginning of the joke it's not one uh and I've never in my life seen actual in the wild pearly kings before it was I saw a couple of pearly kings in east London recently and I was similarly like you it was like seeing a couple of you know leopards or something it's so unusual delightful yeah in their natural habitat yeah the walking dead isn't known for its like lols essentially it's not it's not a laugh a minute generally but julian the character you play is genuinely very funny but he's also kind of tragic and he has a sad backstory and there's a little bit of darkness there to him and i just obviously it's not quite like four lives level you know but but i wonder you know from your perspective like is it nice to do that to very thing because you've played dramatic roles you've played a lot more comedy roles like how do you choose those things do you think i fancy one of these or is it entirely on a case-by-case character-by-character basis well the first dramatic role i had although again it had a little bit of humor was in uh the wolverine theme wolverine film logan oh yeah yeah um and that was a challenge but also exciting and something different and like you said i did four lives where i played a real life serial killer and so i've increasingly tried to seek out some more dramatic roles and although like you say there's a sort of note of humor in this character again the thing that appealed to me was that he's the last man standing he's a lonely figure who has gone just slightly potty because he's the only Englishman left and he's sort of he's there's a lot of pathos I think to the character and I think what's interesting about those long running shows like Walking Dead or their spinoffs is that the main characters are very set and they can radically change they can't keep giving them huge dramatic arcs every episode so it's it's sort of the job of the guest star, as it were, to bring a little bit more of the emotional story or the character arc of that particular episode.

38:19And so I thought there was a nice kind of shape to Julian's story. And so like you say, it was exactly that that appealed to me, to keep trying to kind of exercise those dramatic muscles so that one day I can do my leer. Of course. It'd be the toast of London, or the toast of Croydon, to quote Trevor Slattery. But does it like, because comedy must be, to a certain extent, almost like natural to you, like breathing like you're a funny guy you're just naturally funny like does like if you take the comedy out of a role if you're doing a role you know that is purely dramatic does that scare you a little bit because you don't have that that thing you've always had that crutch to lean on i think to some degree yes and i think what comedy has is there's a there's an outcome you're trying to get to right you're trying to get a laugh and so however authentically you try and play it you have one eye on what's what's the funny with drama you don't have that objective and so the only thing you can burrow into is the sort of truth of it and and so for instance when i did four lives where i was playing this guy stephen port who is a real life killer there's no way of knowing what makes his brain tick you can't i wasn't going to meet him and uh i mean genuinely i think that might have even been an opportunity and i was just like no i don't want to give him the the benefit of thinking that somehow he's so fascinating that I want to actually hang out with him, particularly as I'd heard that he rather arrogantly decided that he wanted, who was it he wanted?

39:42I think he said, I want Eddie Redmayne to play him. Yeah, all right, mate, well, you've got the merchant. But the thing was, there were long scenes that were on the stand, as it were, giving evidence. And you just think to yourself, does he know he's lying? Or is he trying to deceive the jury? Or has he convinced himself that what he's saying is true? and you have to sort of write your own logic to sort of make sense of it and so it becomes for someone who began as a writer it becomes a sort of writerly exercise yeah and so it's a different it's a sort of way of writing in a different form that i find really nutritious and interesting and and challenging i guess because everyone is the hero of their own story right so the villain i guess always has to in his mind or her mind be the hero of that narrative that's right and i don't know how i mean again who knows but i don't know how you live with yourself if you have killed people.

40:32So maybe you convince yourself it didn't go down the way it really did, or I don't know. I just don't know. So you have to sort of create that logic for yourself as an actor. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have met him either. That would have been extremely creepy. But I know that's the thing, completely changed the subject recently. Obviously, The Times did a list, I think it was earlier this year, where they were talking about the best British TV shows of the 21st century, and you contributed to this list, and you stumped up full state of play, the glorious state of play. Yes. Is that your favourite show, British show of this century?

41:04Well, it's the one that sprang to mind. I mean, it's hard to say anything is your favourite, isn't it? It's a bit absurd to sort of rank things in that way. But I was trying to think of one that has really stuck with me since I first saw it. I have actually rewatched it not so long ago, and it stood up very well. And it's not what you perhaps expect from me, because it's more of a sort of conspiracy thriller than a comedy. and I've always been a fan of that kind of genre you know the sort of the newspaper got the sort of dogged newspaper journalist trying to uncover some kind of you know conspiracy and um and so that one I think it's I think I just think it's very well written I think yeah it's Paul Abbott did a great job it's got an excellent cast it's got uh I remember Bill Nighy he sort of I think around the time he was kind of coming to the fore with Love Actually or coming into people's consciousness and it was sort of another kind of starring role for him or sort of great you know supporting role.

41:59And it's just very, very good. And spawned a sort of middling movie version. Yeah. But solid TV. But again, I mean, to try, I mean, what are you talking about? Like 20 years, 25 years? It's pretty absurd to try and pull anything out. It's a good shout, though. I'd find it hard-pressed to beat. And certainly it's a limited series. I reckon it's the best limited series I've seen. It's excellent. It's really strong. Yeah, I agree. It's really good. Yeah, fantastic stuff. Now, no spoilers for the list, but the number one was The Office. Yes. And Richard Curtis went to the mat for that and said lovely things about it.

42:33Yes. And obviously, The Office has been one of the most influential comedies. It's completely changed the topography of the sitcom landscape. Like, every sitcom since then, I feel... Yeah, exactly, right? Does that freak you out a little bit? I completely changed the nature of comedy. Thank you very much. Good night. Well, I think... I mean, it's very nice of you to say that. I think to us, it's sort of, we watch it and see the influences that fed into it for us, you know. So although it seems to have been very influential, and I'm very proud of that, I can see the elements that we've drawn from other films and TV shows that were an influence on us.

43:11And so it's harder to think that, you know, you sort of, you went into it kind of, you know, trying to create something new because it was its own, it had its own, we were standing on the shoulder of the giants, as they say. But the fact that it sort of has had a longevity and it's spawned these remakes and there's now a spin-off of the American version, The Paper. So we have an Office cinematic universe, which I'm very proud of, which is kind of thrilling. But yeah, I mean, you don't go into anything expecting it to have that level of longevity or reach. But it's pleasing that it has. But it also feels like it stretches out.

43:48And I know this isn't like The Office didn't pioneer cringe comedy, right? but it definitely made it, if you will, mainstream. And I feel like even something like Succession, I feel, has a lot of that in it. Like, you look at Jeremy Strong's character. Like, he's got so much Brent in him, it's not even funny. Well, yes, although, of course, you know, Jesse was one of the brains behind the peep show, which came out sort of around the same time as The Office, and that itself didn't mind kind of taking its characters into some excruciating places. And so maybe it was just in the air at that time.

44:18Maybe there'd been a lot of sort of cozier comedy, and it was a reaction to that. Although I think in our case, it wasn't that we were sort of trying to make people feel uncomfortable. It was just, we wanted to just make it feel authentic. And we wanted to just sit in the discomfort because that seemed funny to us. But I think it's a little bit like, I imagine to go back to a zombie film, like if you're making a zombie show, you could just keep throwing in more blood and more gruesomeness because you're on set, you know, it's all fake. And as a viewer, you're like, this is horrific. And I think sometimes for us, we made scenes agonizing because it was tickling us because we really did and for the viewer you're like this is too much guys please so it's funny so i have like really acute friend shyman i believe the germans call it like vicarious embarrassment like cringe like i almost just want to die inside i know everyone does that a bit that's why they enjoy it but i almost can't watch it like curb your enthusiasm someone sat me in front of that for like an hour i might literally expire you know have you always had like a really high tolerance for that because i mean you grew up on you know John Cleese and like Fawlty Towers which I grew up on as well to be fair has a lot of that in it but I guess it's it's maybe balanced out by the slapstick well I think though if you took away the audience laughter from something like Fawlty Towers or from Del Boy yeah it would be as agonizing if it was just have you ever seen where they'll take like a friend's clip yeah and they'll have Ross in a scene and they'll remove the laughs oh god he just seems like a creep and a weirdo and I think that's true of a lot of comedy is that actually if the audience laughter uh studio audience laughter was what sort of softened it softened the edges but actually what the characters are doing I mean if you think about Del Boy falling through the hatch he's trying to impress some women imagine if someone actually fell through a hatch while trying it would just be agonizing it would just and you'd be worried is he injured you know I mean um so I think I think it's just maybe that we just leaned into what is already there in british comedy which is this love of discomfort and the um and people and humiliations and kind of and there for there but for the grace of god go i um i think you know i'd never thought of that but you're absolutely right i think i think the the absence of the laugh track was i think one of the first things you felt in the office right and it makes it excruciating yes yes well actually when we first the editor did the first part of the first episode and actually cut it more like a traditional sitcom and ricky and i watched it on a friday night we were like oh god this is we haven't done this is not working and we got a little bit they used and we just got we got a little bit drunk and so i went in with the editor and i said no let's let's cut it like a documentary not like a sitcom let's leave in the awkward silence and just make it and that's when it started to come alive but But like you say, there's definitely some people.

47:07I think probably my mother is probably one of the same person. I remember when she watched the first episode, she clearly didn't enjoy it, but she came out of the room and she said, well, I can tell it was very well written. Damning with faint praise. Damning with faint praise, yeah. That's incredible. I mean, talking of like laughter, I mean, you're doing stand-up again at the moment, am I right in saying? Like you're preparing for a show? Yes. Yes. Like, obviously that gives you that immediacy, doesn't it? It gives you the instant, the audience. I know it's funny because they're literally fucking laughing.

47:36Like, do you... Or not. Or not. And then presumably that's even more awkward. Yeah, yeah. But like, is there, I mean, in terms of like the sort of comedic high, is there nothing quite like stand-up for you? Well, I haven't done it for many years. So clearly it's not something that I'm addicted to. But I was doing my show Outlaws. We did three series of that. And although I enjoyed doing that and it had a great cast and great crew, it was hard work because some of it we shot during COVID with all the kind of health and safety regulations. And it was quite a sort of ambitious show and it had lots of characters in it.

48:09And I was wearing a lot of hats. And so after I finished it, I was like, oh, I just, I can't go back straight into another big TV or film project. And so there was something about standup where it's just you on stage on your own and you can kind of have an idea in the afternoon and try it out in the evening. And that was sort of the pleasure of going back to it. So it's more the creative process of making it work is what I enjoy. Because in the end, everything I do, it's the work that's enjoyable. It's lovely talking to you and it's nice going to a BAFTAs or going on Graham Norton. But those are not why you do it.

48:43The work is what's fun and challenging. And with stand-up, it's hard and it's times excruciating, but it's very rewarding. Like you say, when something works or a piece clicks in, you're like, oh, okay, now we're onto something. And from an audience point of view, where are the toughest crowds, here or in the US? Well, I think the only thing that's what makes it harder in the US is that although I spent a lot of time there, there are still a lot of cultural reference points and nuances and touchstones that you just never quite know unless you are American. Like, I think we're so inundated with American TV and film, we think we understand the country, I think, perhaps better than we do.

49:23And there are just these little idiosyncrasies that I still find myself struggling to pick up on. And so it's still probably easier to work up the act here. But American audiences are still lovely and very giving and a lot more inclined to give you a standing ovation. Yeah, they're much more enthusiastic and overt. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, speaking of American stars, just very briefly, I remember watching season six, episode one of 24, back in the days, and seeing you come in and very convincingly handle a document, which was incredible work. Now, Ricky obviously did an extended scene for that, which does not make the final cut.

50:04Yours did make the final cut. Was this a bone of contention? I don't think it was a bone of contention, but that was one of the things, when we first had success with The Office and we went to the States for various award shows, was just amazed and dazzled by how many people had seen it and were fans of it which is one of the reasons why we were able to do extras and invite guest stars on but also like you say we sort of run into the guy that was running 24 and we said we were a fan he was like well come down to the set so you get into the set and you just go as a set visit to have a picture with ctu and they're like we'll throw on this tie and be in be a worker in ctu and so yeah sure why not so so yeah i'm at ctu handing somebody a floppy disk or whatever it was yeah amazing it's a it's Still one of the thrills of what I do is just those most unusual moments where you just turn up somewhere unexpected, as I am in this zombie show.

50:55Yeah, and I think it is the incongruity of it that makes it so much fun. Exactly, exactly, yeah. But it's funny how a lot of people have stumbled across that 24 episode. Because I'm in it so briefly for no reason that it's just, what? It's brilliant. With no explanation, you're just there. I've never seen it again, yeah. fantastic well Stephen it has been phenomenal to talk to you thank you so much for your time I really appreciate it thanks mate that was Stephen Merchant time now for this week's news who would like to kick us off oh it's going to be Kay yes and she seems angry no I'm not angry it's big news right it's big news as of 23rd of October Thursday when we're recording this the big news is Strictly Related James oh my god Tess Daly and Claudia Winkleman are stepping down as the hosts after 21 years.

51:44I was shocked when this news broke. Me too. Do you know how I found out? Not by an official source. It was the Ribeiro Green family WhatsApp group. Oh, wow. Yeah, it really kicked off. It's like, oh my God. And then I watched the video of them announcing it and yeah. So I'm completely, I was gobbled-smacked when I saw the video because obviously they're such a staple of the show, which I love, as you know. And obviously they both bring something different to the show but for me, Claudia is the show, right? She is just like, she brings so much warmth and humour. She's fantastic. Such a safe pair of hands.

52:16And is such a large part of the Strictly experience. So, yeah, I can't believe that they're going. Well, you can imagine the shockwaves that went through the heat office when it was announced. Oh, hello. People were really... Surely the cover's being changed. Of course it's being changed. All going on. Yeah, it's a huge moment in popular culture, James, which is why James is already doing his email. I'm like, listen, the thing is, as a viewer, I was really shocked and I'm gutted but I think it's brilliant for them oh it makes total sense 21 years they've been doing it and Claudia is very very good I think she said in her thing her statement or whatever you have to quit while you're still having a really good time at the top of your game and also she's got the juggernaut there's traitors she's got so many Claudia and her juggernaut yeah and she's got a lot on the piano but I think it's very empowering that they've done it and yeah good for them very good so who are you going to have replacing them god I don't that's the thing it's going to be really hard I don't know I'm going to have to give a think about it I'll have a little thought and then I'll email the BBC but yeah it's does it have to be two ladies again doesn't have to be but yeah I don't know who do you replace I'll do it oh please I mean you've got the sense of humour of Brucey so maybe the late great Brucey what a Disabrusy actually that's a Disabrusy okay that's a Disabrusy so I'm going to say Anton DuBec you are like Anton DuBec I don't know who that is oh my god yes James is such a James DuBec James DuBec Tony Beak as his real name is I sense I am being mocked but I cannot tell how affectionately okay yeah who do you well my guess is I'm going to guess that Ryland will be very high on that list I would have thought because I think he'd be perfect for the Claudia role particularly oh my god and he used to do It Takes Two didn't he or I might have made it up no I think It Takes Two I mean everyone's done It Takes Two but as for the main presenter it's a tough one I mean the obvious choice is Holly Willoughby but I don't know if Holly she's too aligned with ITV I think I think it'd be a weird choice she's on BBC stuff I know but I think she's so dancing on ice which was you know well but you know but I bet you know that would be that would be a big coup if they did get her if she did agree to do it.

54:40But it was somewhat, yeah, I don't know. But beyond that, I don't know. Alison Hammond, of course. I do like, I love Hammo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's exciting times. Or do they, I mean, this is, I'm just checking, do they bring on the big guns? Angela Rippon. Angela Rippon. Rippon and Ryland, I'm just saying, could be a winning combo. Trust me, Rippon and Ryland sounds like a great comedy double act. Yeah. We're a detective. Also, how are we still talking about Strictly? Because it's the biggest news of the day, James. Yeah, you're right. It is definitely the biggest news of the week and not in any way that David Chase, the creator of Sopranos, is making a new TV show at HBO.

55:18His first TV show since The Sopranos held by many to be the greatest TV show ever made. Yeah, that's... What the hell has he been doing in that time? He made a weird prequel film. The Many Saints of New York, directed by Alan Taylor. Indeed. But yeah, I saw this news. It's exciting. So we should say, this is called Project MKUltra. And it is based on a non-fiction book called Project Mind Control, Sidney Gottlieb, the CIA, and the Tragedy of MKUltra by John Lyle. And anyway, this is a dramatic thriller. It centres on, and this is the official release, on the infamous chemist and spymaster, Sidney Gottlieb, also known as the Black Sorcerer.

55:58Frankly, they had me at Black Sorcerer, but it turns out it's not about magic. Who headed the CIA's MKUltra psychedelic programme, which conducted dangerous and deadly mind-control experiments on willing and unwilling subjects during the height of the Cold War. So Gottlieb is also known as the unwitting godfather of the entire LSD counterculture. So yeah, a dark chapter in the CIA's past. It does make me think, what has he been doing? Sorry, I keep saying that, what has he been doing? But yeah, I mean, it's brilliant news that he is, you know, he's a genius of TV drama. He changed the face of prestige, television, and just anything, the news is working on something, anything, it's very exciting, yeah.

56:40And it's kind of, because it definitely doesn't scratch the same itch as The Sopranos, but The Sopranos are very high concepts, like he's a mob boss and he's in therapy, like that's quite the elevator pitch, isn't it? This is a little bit naughtier, maybe not be what people, but I think no one knew what The Sopranos would be until we saw what he did with it. The fact that this guy is a chemist and spymaster is a good combination. So, no, I think it's very interesting. I wonder who, Of course, the casting's key. Very much so. Tony Soprano was key. Yeah, James Gandolfini. Legendary. No, it's thrilling.

57:12Yeah. Even more thrilling than The Chase, wouldn't you say? Let's not go too far. No. No. It'd be good to get David Chase on The Chase. That'd be good. Let's do that. So, prior to the Strictly news, my biggest news was that Shrinking Series 3, the date has been announced. Yes. Which is the 28th of January next year. Cannot wait. in the calendar counting down the days. Yeah. But actually, it wasn't the biggest news. I know you love that show, but the show that is going to bring us all together in this fraught studio is season two of Hijack has been announced. Yes, yeah, yeah. That's much more exciting.

57:50No, it's more exciting. It's exciting. Oh, come on. I think it's more. And they've announced, so the date, January 14, you know what that means? January's a big month for us. January's a big month. But also, I feel that means that any day now, episodes of Hijack are going to arrive in our Apple TV. I mean, it's quite a way off still. They go a way off. They do sometimes, but they also sometimes... You got the morning show about a year before it was coming on. Some of us are special body. I'm telling you now, if you get this fucking show, if you get screens of this before I do... Wow, you're so hot on watching Hijack.

58:23Yeah. I loved Hijack. No, I did as well. It's one of the peak gourmet burgers of our time. I think that's the expression. It was coined because of Hijack. It's all about hijack. But also the premise. I didn't know the premise. Is Big Dress in it? Of course Big Dress is in it, you idiot. I'm saying, but the reason I ask is because it's called hijack. It's presumably there needs to be another hijack. How can the same guy get hijacked again? It's on a train. It's on a train. Thank you, yes. In a thrilling second season, a Berlin underground train and its commuters are taken hostage while authorities scramble to save hundreds of lives.

58:54In comes Sam Nelson, Idris Elba, to be at the heart of the crisis on board where one wrong decision could spell disaster. It's a train set. He has the worst luck with public transport. But, you know, second only to my love of plane set. Yeah, it's train set for us. Yeah, it's true. I even like the Joe Cole. In fact, I hosted the screening for the Joe Cole. Of course you did. One. Oh, I did not enjoy that, yeah. I forget, but... That's the one. That was the one where I got them Cosmo Jarvis. That was that. It was that show. So, you know. Yeah, it's Night Sleeper. Night Sleeper. Which was a really fun train set thriller as well.

59:31Yeah, so that is exciting. Excitement, to use the word... The other thing is... How often do we just say that is exciting? I'm excited. It's so exciting. The excitement is real. Now, that is exciting. I enjoyed Hijack enormously. And you know, there's one other announcement this week that's up there in the top, I would say, three announcements is the Harlan Coburn's Runaway. We were talking about... We reviewed Lazarus, Harlan Coburn's Lazarus, on Pilot Plus this week. We did. views differ but I think the excitement is that the next Netflix show, you know, which will be a smash hit, that is set for January the 1st January is such a great month and the most exciting, they put out pictures of the cast and I'm very excited to see Ruth Jones in this role and the pictures of her with various other cast members are really exciting to see and I just think the cast is, James Nesbitt, her and James Nesbitt mini drivers in it Alfred Enoch John Poynting from Bad Boys Big Boys Bad Boys and Big Boys being very different but yes Tracey-Ann Oberman it's got even by the standards of the cast of these shows Harlan Coburn TV shows this is a brilliant cast so yeah very exciting you have to say very exciting at the end of every news it's very exciting it's so exciting no but genuinely this is very exciting news but also can we have a moment to say that Boyd talked about a show that's going to be airing in the first week of January without any kind of loaded comment Don't bring it up, James.

1:01:00about how we should be recording a show between Christmas and New Year. Well, it's a given. It's an absolute given. I mentioned it on Pilot Plus, that's why. You did. We've got an informal agreement that if Boyd takes James and I out for a slap-up, and it has to be slap-up. At the Ivy. At the Ivy. At the KFC. At the Ivy, Christmas lunch. Then we will consider doing a record. There you go. Can't say fairer than that. What a ludicrous arrangement that is. Yeah. yeah okay we'll see any other news in the news no that's my news we have no more news to be fair it has been quite a light news week I think I'm sure I don't know I think those stories are all I was going to say I'm still reeling from Strictly and Shrinking I was thinking in terms of volume but yes there was some big stories squeeze one more in which is that I thought it was funny that and is it coincidence or not that the two stars announced this week to join HBO's legal thriller War which has already cast Sienna Miller and Dominic West have you seen this Kay?

1:01:58no particularly I'm looking at you Kay Joshua Jackson no it's interesting because it's got Celia Imri the farting legend of traitors celebrity traitors I understood that reference thank you and Nick Muhammad oh my gosh wow so the two of the shining lights of celebrity traitors are both being cast announced this week as cast in this big HBO Sky swanky show so is that who knows if that's a coincidence or not but it's weird isn't it even more exciting yeah because you wouldn't necessarily expect Imri and Mohammed to be together in the show but they are they're fucking what a duo I don't know why I'm swearing all of a sudden they bloody well will be there we go told you it was worth it the only other thing and I can't I don't even know why I'm bringing this up because I actually don't want to say it because a lot has been made of a certain character having departed the morning show in the most recent episode don't spoil it obviously I knew months ago when I saw it but I can't really say who it is because that's a spoiler no but someone has departed at the morning show.

1:02:54That's great non-news. Yeah, there you go. A person I won't name has departed this show you may or may not have seen in an episode I'm not going to tell you about. So, there you go. Even by your standards, that is ridiculous. That's quality news. And on that note, let's move on to the review section. Let's call him Trevor McDonald. Woodward and Bernstein, that's me. Right, first up this week, we have It. Welcome to Derry on Sky. Now, this is a TV prequel to Andy Muschietti's 2017 and 2019 films. It part one, It part two. which were themselves obviously the adaptation of Stephen King's iconic 1986 novel.

1:03:28Now, for the uninitiated, the book sees a group of children in Derry, Maine, being terrorised by this sort of supernatural force, which occasionally presents itself as a malevolent clown called Pennywise, played by Bill Skarsgård. This series, also developed and directed by Andy Muschietti, along with Barbara Muschietti and Jason Fuchs, is set back in the 60s as a prequel, and this deals with Pennywise's kind of previous phase, terrorizing Derry's youth. Just to confuse matters, the book It is set in the 1950s, but the two films are set in the late 80s and 2016 respectively. So even though this takes place after the books, chronologically, it is a prequel to the story from the films.

1:04:16Clear? Oh, God. Excellent. Exhausted. There you go. It for you. Boydie, Boydie, tell us about Five Children and It. Well, okay, I'll try. There's also this thing, apart from Pennywise the Clown, who isn't in the first episode, which is all I've watched after. Well, Bill Skarsgård is in the first episode. Yeah, okay. But this freaky little thing is, which is in the opening scene, the opening scene is this absolutely demented sequence, Kay. So we should say Kay didn't have access to the screeners. No. But if she had had access, she would 100 % have switched off after that first scene. I think it's a blessing.

1:04:58The first scene is quite an extraordinary set piece. I've used to have extraordinary lots of apologies. It is extraordinary. It is extraordinary. And exciting. In what way? It is exciting. This little kid who's kind of like, yeah, is kind of like seemingly an orphan, and he's on his own. He's got big panda eyes, and it's really, sorry for me, he hitchhikes, and this car stops with his family. I'm getting Mark Warner vibes. Which vibes? Mark Bonner, sad advice. Yeah, maybe. With his family, seemingly, you know, lovely family, mother, father, three kids are in there, in this car, and they pick him up, and he wants to go anywhere apart from Derry, which is where, obviously, he comes from, where the whole thing's set, this fictional town of Derry.

1:05:39And they say they're going to somewhere else, but they end up going back to Derry. And it becomes increasingly fucking freaky and insane. And bloody. And quite graphic. And quite graphic. and involving little kids. No, thank you. Yeah. I'm out. It's quite a lot. It's a bold opening scene. It is a very bold opening. Again, it goes along with my theory, you have to make a splash with your opening scene, even it, the spin-off. Even if the splash is made in blood. Exactly. It doesn't ease you in to the story in any way. It's like full-on, insane opening sequence. But I have to say, on the plus side, all of the kids in the show are brilliant.

1:06:16I thought the acting from all of the, and there are a lot of kids in this show, are varying ages. But they're often like pre-teen, you know, kind of little kids, or at least they're playing pre-teen little kids. And they're all kind of brilliant. Because sometimes, you know, child actors can really, I don't know, they can take you out of it if they're not really, really good. It's a real skill, I think, directing and making sure. And the example of that, Owen Cooper, fantastic. Yeah, exactly, yeah. But these are like groups of kids together. So you meet them at high school, there's two girls who are kind of friends, one of whom has visions of things happening in a bathroom.

1:06:51I wanted to say two more. Oh, yeah, there's a lot of kids in jeopardy in this show. And kids being attacked. Which, to be fair, is the whole premise of it. Yes, indeed. Stephen King, you know, is, I would say, mildly obsessed with teenagers, kids being under attack, you know, and, you know, the kind of children having no, the innocence of childhood being ruined by evil forces, shall we say. Right from his very first book, Carrie. Of course, his very first book, Carrie, about a teenage girl with telekinesis. Anyway, there's another set piece, kind of fight scenes that I didn't think was very good.

1:07:29I thought it was a bit unfortunate, if you know the one I mean later in the episode. Is this involving a cinema? No, well, the cinema's okay, but then there's the adult fighting scene later on. Right, okay, yes. That didn't work for me. In fact, the whole strand, there's different strands. So you've got this weird opening, which is insane and quite distressing and horrible that you would have turned off immediately for. Then it settles down introducing you to cross-cutting between three or four different sets of characters. A Jewish family where the dad is quite horrible and the little kid is kind of like very intense, smart little guy who's got theories of what's going on in the world.

1:08:06There's these two teenage girls, as I mentioned. And then there's like military people. There's a military guy, a black military guy, has to do with racism as soon as he arrives in the town. and there's weird things going on at the base where he's stationed. All his stuff, I wasn't interested in at all. I just didn't think it was very interesting. It feels like it adjacent, doesn't it? Whereas I think it will come around to it. I think because bear in mind that the book is essentially split into two halves. You've got the group, the losers club as kids facing off against Pennywise. Then there is a break and then they return as adults to kind of deal with Pennywise again.

1:08:42whereas what this does instead of having it blends those two concepts together in one timeline so you have adults and children all kind of contesting with this right yes well I you see I've seen both of the It films I haven't read the book do you remember the TV show did you watch the TV show with Tim Curry which is genuinely brilliant even if it hasn't aged fabulously indeed Tim Curry so good yeah brilliant absolutely brilliant and yeah I really like that that version but I have never read the novel and I have read both I do see both films The first film was really good. The second film was not, basically.

1:09:16We gave the second film five stars. Oh, yeah, famously. Isn't that Alex? It was Alex, yes. We never start giving him shit about it. It's still good. It's still good. It's just not a bad thing. It's fine. But the problem is, it's one of these unfortunate things where in the book, the first half is significantly better than the second half. But for me, this is a sprawling, multifaceted, densely layered thing that is a bit too much. There's too much to take in if you're not fully appraised of the history of the films. Early on, I think like... That first scene is brilliant. Don't get me wrong. And I fully expected, by the way, in the end of the opening scene, and thank God they didn't do this, that it would be all a dream by the little kid who's hitchhiking.

1:09:57Oh, that would be annoying. Oh, I knew it wasn't a dream. Yeah, but I didn't. I thought this is so absolutely ludicrous and over the top and every word you can think of. I thought, oh, it's Bounty. He's going to wake up in any minute. But no, no, no, no. So the madness of it is all too real within this context. But anyway, to cut a long opinion short, I couldn't get fully on board with it. I think it had some really good moments in the opening, etc. It's had some quite... You did this the other day with it. It has had mixed reviews, yes. It's had a lot of really scathing reviews. Some really scathing reviews, others quite good reviews.

1:10:31But I know what the scathing ones are saying. Why should we care about the origins? it's one of those things where prequels have this inherent issue for me where they really have to work hard to make you care about people you know in the end what happens to them and yet to justify their existence yeah and I don't I think this almost does and it's got a lot of stuff we've seen before once you see kids at school with their lockers and they're being bullied and all that I'm like do I really need to see another show about this stuff and it's very stranger things it comes across as and I thought this while I was watching and I hadn't read any reviews when I watched this at all.

1:11:07But I'm seeing that halfway through, I'm thinking, would this even be made without Stranger Things? It feels such like Stephen King meets Stranger Things. And obviously, the irony is that Stranger Things is massively influenced by Stephen King and 70s films like Carrie and 80s films. And It, let's be honest. Exactly. So it's all kind of populate itself to some extent. But just the tone of it and the cross-cutting and the number of characters and all of that, it just really reminded me of Stranger Things. And in the end, I thought it's not as good as Stranger Things. Even though it's worse, it's not as good as the worst Stranger Things.

1:11:38I didn't think this series was as good as that. How many of them have you seen? Two. Yeah, same. I like it. I definitely think it's doing a lot of heavy lifting early on, because it's a lot of characters. There are a lot of moving parts. And I had a sense that it lacked a little bit of focus. There are a number of storylines kind of competing for the spotlight, and it felt like they weren't quite sure which one they wanted to focus on, they ended up kind of giving paying lip service to all of them so I think it maybe could have done with a little more focus I think the performances are great in particular as you said the child performances are fantastic and that's I think where it lives and dies with it it's terrorizing these kids like there's a girl who's lost her father there's a couple of boys who've kind of lost a friend but is he a friend and it's kind of and then of course there's the whole almost like gaslighting thing where the adults never believe them but this shit is genuinely happening but no one ever listens to them ever it's annoying yeah which is maddening but I do think it's good and you know Bill Skarsgård being in this I think is a big big plus for it because Pennywise is the heart of this story the only thing about this and it's not really a criticism of them I guess beyond the decision to make it is the reason why the second half of it the book and the reason why the second film isn't as good is first of all like the adult side of things is inherently not as interesting as the children because they don't you know A they're not being believed and also it plays into their primal fears in a way that it doesn't really work so well with the add-ons.

1:13:03But also, once you know what Pennywise is, once you understand, once the curtain has been pulled back and you understand what's going on, it's not scary anymore. And that is a problem when you watch it already knowing what it is. Now, this whole series has that problem that we know what Pennywise is, we know how Pennywise ends. So to an extent, it defangs this for me. Don't get me wrong, the imagery, and it's quite scary as the way it's put together but it's not creepy in the same way that if you go in cold to it chapter one it scares the shit out of you because you've no idea what's going on you're in exactly the same boat as the kids like it's really really unnerving because it's this force that kind of almost shapeshifts and plays on their primal fears you're not sure what it is who it is is there one is there more what's going on what does it want what does it need and then of course by this point we know all of that because it's thoroughly demystified in the films so I think that does rob this of some of its power unfortunately but I did like it I thought it was well done I think it was remembering the scene in the cinema is really good with the film which is very similar to a Doctor Who episode of course it is but it's right so it's effective use of scary imagery and the grammar of scary cinema so it's frightening in isolation but taken as a larger narrative it doesn't have that real kind of like you know prickles on the back of your neck feeling it's just kind of visceral scares and worst of all for me it didn't have that by the end of episode 2 I didn't feel desperate to carry on watching like that at all.

1:14:35So that's the main issue, really. As good as the set pieces are, and there's some really good moments, there's some, you know, yeah, but I didn't feel the urgent need to carry on. The other thing is, and I do think it has always been at its best, when it's suggestive rather than explicit. And I think, you know, just seeing the clown in a storm drain or just seeing a balloon, and there was moments like in the IT TV show where you just see Tim Curry waving from behind a sheet on a washing line. Really frightening. Whereas sometimes I think, you know, having overt scary imagery here, as you're talking about the cinema scene, you know, it's scary, but it's not creepy.

1:15:13And I think this works better when it's creepy as opposed to just, you know, giving you scares. But look, I liked it. You know, I'm inclined to watch more of it. Well, they'll be very relieved. They will be relieved, yes. But yeah, it may be, again, it's one of these things where this is well made, but the question is, should it have been made? I think that's probably my question. Wow. It, Welcome to Derry, which airs on a sky, a sky, a sky, a sky, a sky, a sky, a sky, a sky, and now, and now, Monday, sky, Atlantic indeed, and now, from today, Monday at nine o 'clock. This is it. Literally. Yeah.

1:15:55Right. Next up, we have Art Detectives on You and Drama, which stars you and Stephen Moyer as a detective, and he's in the Heritage... Or is it Stephen Moyer? Is it Stephen Moyer? That's a Pilot Plus gag for you there. He is a detective in the Heritage Crime Unit who essentially investigate the theft of antiquities and objet d 'art. And Nina Singh, of course, plays the constable who's assigned to assist him. But to quote Stephen Moyer's character in the first episode of the show, facts are good, but interpretation is more important. To that end, Kay, please tell us, is this art or is it arse? I wouldn't call it arse but I would say it is maybe not the highest calibre of detective drama.

1:16:41I would say he is great. Stephen Moyer. Moyer. Moyer is great in this. Sorry, don't confuse me. Anyways. Can't blame us for you. Listeners, we should explain that in a recent episode Stephen Moyer came up didn't he? He's in something else what's he in? He's in loads of stuff at the moment actually I can't remember what we were viewing And Kay was listing the cast and said Stephen Moyer as in Alison Moyer They're not related and it's Moyer I know and then Boyd has been ribbing me on the WhatsApp group Anyways so yeah he is great in this I think he's the best thing about it because other than that it's very by the numbers cosy drama and I would say that the some of the dialogue and the performances are subpar.

1:17:28So that's my takeaway. I think UK TV has like plenty of great detective dramas on there but this one doesn't particularly stand out for me. I don't know how you guys felt about it. Boydy. That's quite minimal. Wow. No, because I don't want to give it like... Yeah. No. I understand where Kay is coming from. Oh yeah, I mean, you know. I will say someone gets twatted in the face with a hammer quite early doors, and that's quite arresting. And they still call it cozy crime. The cozy hammer smashed into someone's head. Cozy hammer, it's hammer time. I mean, it is cozy, though, isn't it? Oh, no, I know.

1:18:04I'm pointing out, I've always thought that phrase, it doesn't make any sense, because all these supposedly cozy shows, Midsummer Murders, they all begin with violent death. They do, yeah. Unless they're doing, I don't know, someone's disappearing or something. this is quite extraordinary because Stephen Boyer it is essentially him mansplaining art to Nina Singh for a significant run time of this episode but the way he's well if you look at the framing it's all wonky and he's doing it it's like okay this is an interesting thing he's committed to it he is committed to it and he's got you know the quirk of his is like that he literally smells stuff he sniffs out the crime so that's his USP he sniffs the art yes which is mildly amusing I enjoy the banter between the two of them though I thought that was quite fun I thought they riffed off each other quite well.

1:18:51Yeah, they kind of, the whole of the first, not the whole of the first episode, the episode has its own mystery, which is, you know, kind of ludicrous. Yeah, there's a death of an art historian that he's investigating. Although I would say, right, I sat there thinking, this is absolutely preposterous, particularly when the solution arrives, you know, oh my God. But, you know, there's been a heist at the Louvre this week, right? That makes this show and frauds, which is the ITV caper with Saran Jones, etc., which is all about the theft of a painting from the most famous museum in Madrid. And then you get, you know, other things.

1:19:29I'm now thinking... Well, Lupin. Lupin. Oh, 100%. I was thinking of Lupin. As soon as I heard, I was like... Oh, when it all happened, I was about to tweet, pompously tweet, you know, this is like the new series of Lupin. This can't be real. But of course, then a million other people got there before I did. I was furious. But it's so Lupin. It's insane. but it happened it absolutely happened talk about you know I didn't realise heritage crime was a thing and then we're seeing it playing out yeah talk about fact being worse than fiction so I was like now I feel like everything is plausible in this world of heist shows so actually the solution of this show turns out to be oh that's fine it probably could happen yeah but yeah it's kind of it has its own story which is quite good fun and then it's set up for setting up the fact that the two of them Nina Singer and Stephen Moyer are going to be a kind of fun double act, which I can see.

1:20:20Which they are. Which they are. Which they are. Yes, they are. It's a completely harmless, frothy thing, isn't it? It's super slight. But I think there is some skill involved, I think one can acknowledge, in setting up a show that basically establishes a crime, a very specific art-based crime, which this character can, as he says, is the only one. you know he's the only one doing this fucking job in the whole world practically let alone this country they managed to set up this character give him a crime to solve and solve it in about 45 minutes maximum there is a skill to that there is a skill to that yeah and there's a market for it there's an audience for it as well so yeah what's weird is so this is on Ewan Drama right from from Thursday the 30th and it's on it's on Acorn TV I was just saying Acorn Antiques it's on Acorn Antiques it's on Acorn TV in America it started back in June and Larry Lamb's in it from Gavin Stacey etc and it doesn't I'm not saying it's lavishly produced but it doesn't look particularly cheap either it's fine the whole thing is fine well the art gallery they're in is quite well appointed yeah exactly and so it's kind of like it's the kind of thing where Americans would lap up it's a very British feel to it with appeal almost Downton meets art heists kind of thing I'm pushing it I know, I know.

1:21:43But you know how, Downton's like the ultimate show that was huge in America because they love quaint British people doing stuff. Yes, I get what you mean. There is an element to that. And this has got British people doing stuff with art and mysteries and stuff. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there are so many drama series out there, it's extraordinary that this show almost exists. But I think it is quite kind of, I don't know, cute and fun as you're watching it. Can we spare a thought for the Poirot-esque final reveal with the amount of showmanship? Ha-ha! Well, this is what happened. Because it's got a great...

1:22:19What we didn't mention is the guy he's battling against in jurisdiction issues, which you know I love jurisdiction. And this is a great one, where this guy is unfathomably horrible. Yeah. He's weirdly hostile. So hostile. For no reason. Gives you a quiet life. You can't let somebody else solve the fucking crime. What do you care? He's horrible. and he's completely pompous about him having jurisdiction over it rather than the art investigator guy. So that was... He was the most entertaining character, entertaining slash despicable character in the whole thing. So, you know, it was... It's fun, fine.

1:22:52It's not terrible, is it? No, no, no. I've seen worse. Yeah. We've seen worse. So if, for example, you lose access to every other channel, then by all means, watch Art Detectives. Yeah. which airs on you and drama when boydy Thursday the 30th October 8 o 'clock and it will all be on the you streaming service of course which we know and love now quite the gear change for the next show isn't it right finally this week we do have the third series of ITV's Trigger Point which once again stars Vicky McClure as bomb technician Lana Washington who with her team obviously spends their days dealing with things that go boom And in this series, a little team of Expos have to deal with a serial bomber with a passion for vigilante justice.

1:23:41Boyd, you're a man with a passion for vigilante justice, aren't you? Oh, except, you know, I am in the pocket of big... Are you? You're in the pocket of big trigger points. I'm literally hosting the screening tonight. Right, Boyd, he's been triggered. Boyd, he's been triggered by this review. We have to move over. Kay, you're not being paid by anyone, are you? No. Good. No, no, no, no. Yes, as you say, Vicky McClaw's back as Lana. Now, I have to tell you, I watched a little bit of the first... I think I watched the first episode of the first series. Really? Yes, and I haven't... A lot happens in that.

1:24:08I know, and I haven't continued since, but not just time-wise, right? But I don't think it's almost necessary. I picked up very easily with this, and the point of it is that Vicky McClure is excellent as Lana, as this explosive officer who has obviously gone through a lot. She's very traumatised, but she's someone who just... She's keeping the lid on it, but you know it's going to go off at any time. and she instantly, her team are called out to deal with a taxi that has been stolen and abandoned in a field and there is a bomb inside. But not only a bomb, a passenger. Now, presumably he hasn't paid the bill.

1:24:45Why is he kept locked in? But he is locked in and he's left with an ominous note that says, confess or die. It is high octane. It is tense. I mean, it's like relentlessly tense as all the other episodes have been. and it's just brilliant. It's very entertaining but it's so, I mean, I don't know, you find it very stuff tense as well, James. I don't know how you coped with it. Oh, yeah, I'm a big fan. I loved it but I also was like, oh my God, please, just relieve the tension. it's the nature of it, isn't it? Like anything where things can literally explode. Yes. It has just built in tension to it but I watched all of series one and series two of this.

1:25:23Oh, okay. So you're up to date. I really like Trigger Point. I think it's a lot of fun. I also think it goes into, It joins Happy Valley in the annals of glumphing police officers. With equipment. Yeah, because Vicky has so much clobber on her in the same way that Sarah Lancashire used to do it. Yeah, exactly. It's just like she's glumphing around in these great big bombsuits. But yeah, it's a really fun show. It occasionally sort of betrays its roots sometimes. I found this in season two definitely, that sometimes it does get a little bit silly, but it is fun. What do you mean between it? Well, yeah, what does that mean?

1:26:01There is a silliness to it sometimes. There is definitely a silliness to it but I think you go with it and I think it's just a lot of fun. I think there's a bit of silliness to all these shows. Do you know what I mean? Let's be generalised. To all shows on TV. No, no, no, but the high octane ones like Hostage, for example. Well, I mean, Line of Duty has silliness. Anything that's very heightened there's often an element of... I think this is very, you know, it's no coincidence that this is Jeff McGurio's company, production company, that makes this show. And he has a big, I know he has a big involvement in terms of, you know, he's not the showrunner, but he definitely gives, he gets a lot of feedback, shall we say.

1:26:35And even, you know, in terms of coming up with ideas and, you know, and he is, of course, the master at treading the line of what you're talking about, of incredible realism and fidelity to the way these things work. Like, you know, I'm sure there is a bomb disposal expert on set at all times making sure that every single moment rings true and is authentic. But at the same time, there's this serial bomber character who is the big adversary in this series, for example, played by Jason Fleming, who we only see in the first couple of episodes hovering around mysteriously. And even that, I thought, it's a little bit cheesy.

1:27:12But I agree with you that Line of Duty did that. He's the master of that, where it's completely realistic. And yet at the same time, plot stuff happens that is borderline just treading that line brilliantly. It's somewhat preposterous, but you go with it. And I think it does it, I think it treads that line off so well. I think in classic Mercurio style, even though he did not write this, etc. Will he be there tonight? I don't know. He's not on the panel. Okay. But he'd probably be there, I imagine. He's very busy putting the finishing touches, maybe, I don't know, to Line of Duty season eight.

1:27:46I won't be asking him about that. God damn it. So, but yeah, it's definitely, his influence is there. but I really like I love it as well and I think partly because they do a really good job of coming up with because it could be incredibly repetitive right you know we're now three seasons of a show about diffusing bombs you know 18 hours so far that is of this whole thing but they do it really well they come up with and you know the fact that each series has an overarching storyline and each one kind of outdoes each other it's constantly outdoing itself really in terms of giving us the premise of each series being different to the last.

1:28:24And the opening episode, I think this is a classic example. Do you remember the opening episode of Series 2? You'll remember, James, where there's that bomb in that disused car park and the guy steps on it and if he steps off, he's going to be blown to smithereens. Yeah, pressure plane. They did that brilliantly. Like that one sequence kind of went off for about 30, 40 minutes and it was a fantastic set in piece. Don't even get started about Adrian Lester. Season one. But somehow in this one, with the whole cab thing idea and the passenger and Jason Fleming hovering around being mysterious, it manages to be as exciting and thrilling and tense as those previous series openers so I just think they do a really good job it's a massive hit this is their biggest show their biggest returning show now drama series is it?

1:29:04I didn't know that I think it was second only to Mr. Thingy Mr. Bates Mr. Bates Mr. Thingy Mr. Bates in terms of pure ratings it was like second only to that for ITV drama that year so yeah it's huge good fact but it's also fun in that that Wash, Vicky McClure's character, is an absolute maverick from the get-go and it's just like, it's a lot of fun. We love a loose cannon. And they investigate her, I think, could you mention that, by the way, I meant to mention that earlier, that she's going through a tough time, all the stresses and strains of her job are reflected in her. She's self-medicating, she's got, you know, shoes, and all of that, I think, is very, also, you know, very Mercurio-esque.

1:29:45They do it with quite a light touch but it's important to know what she's going through and they don't, soft soap, the impact of what is the hardest jobs in the world, the effect it has on those people. I dread to think about her cortisol levels. Oh, I know, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, you'd know all about stress endured, working with two fuckwits on this podcast. Indeed. But she, they do that really well. So yeah, that strand of it. And that strand of it is more prominent in this series than before, I'd say. Looking forward to watching the rest of it. Yeah. Me too. Okay, trigger point then.

1:30:16ITV, when, Boydie? It started yesterday, Sunday, carries on tonight, Monday. at 9 o 'clock and it's on Sunday and Monday for the next couple of weeks magnificent what else is on this week well there is the final episode of Brassic which I know Kay is a big fan of yep I'm excited for that that's Thursday the 30th October 10 o 'clock 2025 Sky Max and now Down Cemetery Road that would have been let's face it we wouldn't have done Art Detectives what are you saying I'm just being honest I'm just drawing back the veil poor Stephen Moyet really Stephen Moyet we did Stephen Moyet's show because Down Sematary Road which is the hugely exciting Mick Heron Apple TV Mick Heron Ruth Wilson Ruth Wilson Emma Thompson Dame Emma Thompson my close personal friend all coming together ET so we will be doing that yeah we'll do that on Violet Plus yeah what else there is oh yeah there's a thing called The Fucking Witcher it's not called The Fucking Witcher it's not called The Fucking Witcher it's just called The Witcher season 4 of The Witcher which is also embargoed.

1:31:20I'll have a chat about that on Plus as well. That's Thursday. Yeah, I'm in the pocket of Big Witcher though, so just do bear that in mind. You've been in the pocket of The Witcher from the very start. You love that stuff. Yes, I am, however, hosting the premiere tonight. Oh, there you go. Literally. You two both hosting tonight. Yes. Which one will people go to? Well, that's the question. Should we compare pictures of audience sizes? Yeah, we should do. Oh, look at you. You two are unbelievable. If you can find a way of having a swing competition. there's a Canadian comedy on ITVX from Saturday called Small Achievable Goals which looks quite good which is about two women dealing with the menopause and doing a podcast about it which covers all the bases and stuff very hot button things happening let's hope their mic technique is better than the girls on that's why I mainly mention you can check their mic technique and there's Robin Hood on Sunday on MGM Plus which is guess what that's about it's a new version it's a new trendy, youthy version of The Robin Hood Legend.

1:32:21Oh, God. This is the way of telling that it's kind of youth-oriented, I think. I haven't watched it myself. God, I'm having horror nightmares with Dick Turpin. They call him Rob. Oh, no. Absolutely not. Oh, Robbie Hood. Robbie H. Absolutely not. No, hold on. It's got Sean Bean in it. Sean Bean's the chef of Nottingham. Oh, Seen Bean. Yeah, Seen. Now you're changing. Connie Nielsen out of Gladiator. She's Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine. It's quite a starry cast, you know. Okay. let's not be close minded yeah and depending on embargoed so you may end up reviewing it so you've got to be careful okay yes and that is it so with that in mind what is our pick of the week?

1:32:57Art Detectives no it's not though is it it's trigger point for me it's not though is it it's the trigger point exactly it is trigger point yeah sorry sorry it welcome to Derry that's a big big yeah flex from you that's right okie dokie that is it for this podcast for this week please do leave us a 5 star rating on whatever platform you so choose and also follow us on the social medias at Kay Ribeiro at Boyd Hilton at Pilot TV Pod at James C. Dyer next week what have we got next week let's have a look on the calendar and see if anyone's updated it I think we know the answer to this yeah I think we do I love LA on Sky Comedy sight unseen on Paramount Plus all's fair comes to Disney Plus next week the aforementioned Kim Kardashian show all her fault Sky Showcase Sky Atlantic with the Sarah Snook Is it Sky Atlantic or Sky Showcase?

1:33:47I had Sky Showcase down. Oh, you know, Sky Showcase is a melange of... Why do I even ask? ...of big stuff on the other different show. The fact that it's on Sky, it will be on Showcase. Right. So Sky, Showcase, anyway, but it's the actual... I think we need someone from Sky to come in and explain all these bastard channels. Let's do it. You get it wrong every week. We need some kind of key. Can you provide us with some kind of comprehensive document explaining why and where anything appears on any channel? Explain it all, please. Web diagram would be great. We'd really appreciate that. Yeah, Maxton Hall comes to Prime, but perhaps more exciting than any of that, Pluribus, the new Vince Gilligan show, comes to Apple.

1:34:20Now, that's almost certainly a bargain. It is certainly a bargain, yeah. So we'll probably be covering that on Pilot Plus, but yeah, that's very exciting. It is officially very exciting. Officially very exciting. Right. Okay, that is our stand. Now, Kate has a big decision ahead of her. Is she going to go to Boyd's event tonight, or is she going to go to my event tonight? Okay, I've decided. That's the question. It's The Witcher, isn't it? You want The Witcher. As a big fan, you want The Witcher. It's Sofa and Shetland time. Sorry, guys. You're on your own. That's the best option. Wow. Yeah. Harsh.

1:34:52Pilot out.