Peacemaker, The Twisted Tale Of Amanda Knox, and Mudtown. With guest Alex Lawther

39:41that's the tool that science fiction gives a writer right like it gives you a big metaphor in order to discuss uh the state of things as they are right now but also therefore being entertaining because sci-fi lends itself to sort of um uh action and horror and um and and world building um but yeah essentially i suppose that is that is the job of the genre yeah completely yeah yeah um i would i'm just one thing that's absolutely up in my mind is um i'm calling the sheep scene where the uh the eyeball monster attacks the sheep i mean that is just i mean it's cgi goes i just thought that this is we're at peak levels i mean that's such an incredible we can't go we can't go anywhere from yeah yeah it must be exciting just to watch that back those kind of scenes where you're not necessarily in but seeing that you know seeing what a level this show is operating well it's but also because as an actor you get to see sometimes you get to see things several versions of things so i was seeing like before adr which additional dialogue replacement where you go in and re-record stuff, I was seeing versions of that sheet moment in various stages of completedness.

41:03And part of me was thinking at certain points, I don't think that they finished the CGI there. I think there's work to do. But I don't want to mention it in case that's it. And of course, it's really exquisite, the final piece of generated images. but it's interesting seeing the sort of the workings out of that department as well. Yeah, and thank God it's not a department I'm involved in. Yeah, it's beyond means, yeah. I mean, the whole show feels like a kind of incredibly ambitious cinematic, you know, eight-hour film. Are you a fan of, you know, kind of deep dive TV, whatever you want to call it?

41:49Do you consume this kind of show if you weren't in it? Would you be watching it? And what other kind of stuff do you like watching? I think I probably would. Yeah, I think. I mean, I'm not going through whatever streaming platforms necessarily looking for sci-fi. But I think if I stumbled upon it, I find that first episode particularly so unusual and compelling. and friends like there was a premiere recently my partner came my mum and dad came and they were always saying they got to see the first episode they were saying I really want to see regardless of the fact you're in it Alex I'd really like to see what happens which is a good sign and yeah what else have I been actually in the last month I've not really been watching any telly because we've been just doing a lot of talking about the show I did see I went to cinema and saw Bring Her Back that horror also again horror is not really my I'm not I'm not a loyal horror fan but I do love Sally Hawkins so I went to see it and she's so great she's incredible have you seen that film?

43:16it's horrific I can't see a moment with a knife in that child's mouth out of my head sometimes when I'm talking to people I just sort of have to put my finger in my mouth anyway and but yeah it was interesting I hope she had a good time making that because Yeah, it's intense. It's intense. It's a horrible watch, but it's interesting how how entertaining that is. I don't know what it is about them. I suppose it's the fine line between sort of horror and hysteria or hilarity. Have you heard about weapons with other horror films? comes out this week yeah i'm working with julia at the moment yeah i think she's brilliant so i'm really looking forward to watching yeah yeah but she's she is amazing yeah she's brilliant yeah yeah it's so cool such a cool customer yeah um running out of time to the end of the effing world how do you what do you prefer to as the end of the world what's yeah yeah well how life was that for you it's had such a seems to have such an impact i think it just like the way i understand it is that it was the first first thing i did that then going into auditions and stuff people like oh i've seen you in that thing so it's sort of just contextualized the work i was doing as an actor which is really nice because normally as an actor you know people are asking what you've done before or assuming you haven't done anything before and assuming this is your first job or something so particularly at that time in my life in my mid-20s it was nice to feel that yeah that that there was a I don't know that there was a conversation in which people knew uh something that I'd done before basically that was the sort of the most marked away the biggest impression that that show did for me um and also it was the first time i got to do the second season of anything um and i had the pleasure of like knowing a character and also being able to relax because it had worked in whatever strange way the end of the fucking worlds worked and so we could be a bit looser with it the second time around um and sort of yeah be a little less anxious as to how it was going to sit with an audience which i think is more fun for both the audience and the people making the show brilliant thanks ali so much congratulations on um fantastic shows all in alien earth and uh and see you soon thank you That was Alex Lawther of Alien Earth fame.

46:21And moving on, I think now it's time, I think, I mean, it's time, certainly in this podcast that I'm hosting, because I've decided to do it now. Just do it your way. The listener question K. Okay, so this question, it actually came in time for our show, but then because obviously we took questions from the audience, so we didn't get a chance to answer this. Right, so our question comes from Andy, who says, So this ties in with our 350th episode. He says, I remember awkwardly making my excuse to leave a meeting with my English teacher in order to run home and find out what happened in Dawson's Creek.

46:56So my question on the 350th is, you're all 16, the time is 3.50pm, what show are you running home to watch? Such a great question. It's a great question. Yeah, a really good question. It's such a great question that when you had mentioned that this was going to be the question, I sent it to James Dyer because I felt like lovely Andy would probably want to hear from regular host James Dyer. And he has replied. He has sent a voice note. He sent it immediately. I sent him that text at 9.24. And by 9.26, I had... Oh, my God. That's the quickest he's ever reacted. He never replied so quickly. Yeah, it was unbelievable.

47:39Unbelievable. So shall I attempt to play this into the microphone now? Okay. So if it was 3.50 and I was 16 years old, then I would have been looking forward to another two hours of school because my school day did not finish until 6.15 because I went to that kind of school. So unfortunately, I was not rushing home to watch anything. The one thing I will say during that decade was Sky One were doing daily repeats of Star Trek The Next Generation, so I would almost always go home and have dinner while watching Star Trek The Next Generation on Sky One. so that was pretty much my my teenage years which explains a lot i like to think um but you know like the little video plus codes you used to get where you used to program your little vhs and you get it to record all the little things so i was obsessed with that so i had like this incredibly elaborate schedule with my little codes in and my video recorder my little vhs thing had like seven days a week planning recording so i would schedule in all the things i wanted it to record at home uh from sky so various things films tv shows whatever and then i would kind of make my the way through it on these great big long play.

48:43Do you remember long play? Long play VHS tapes. So even when I went away to uni, I had my video at home programmed to record all these things and elaborately set up so it would change the Sky Channel for things like Quantum Leap and Deep Space Nine and all that sci-fi shit that I still very much enjoy. So yes, big up for long play program of all VHS players. They were very much the GOAT. And there you have it. Long play VHS players, very much the GOAT. And I think the answer was Star Trek. Yes. No, wasn't it Star Trek The Next Generation? Not OG Star Trek, I think. Yeah. I'm glad that even when he's not here, we listen to him.

49:18Yeah, because he doesn't like OG Star Trek. He's an idiot. But I just thought Andy might want to hear from James. That's brilliant. What's your answer? I can tell you that I was very much watching Dawson's Creek. Yeah, me too. Very, very much watching Dawson's Creek. But also, I just want to say, Party of Five. Do you remember Party of Five? Matthew Fox. What a great show. I remember that. And Bailey. Oh, God, so good. Scott Wolfe, yeah, and Jennifer Lovekewitt. It's brilliant. But it made me start thinking about My So-Called Life, which I decided I'm going to re-watch. Claire Danes, My So-Called Life.

49:53Yeah. Above its... I think we re-watched, didn't we? Yeah, From the Vault. From the Vault, yeah, in the first episode. Oh, did you? It was a bit dated. I was going to say, how is it now? Because it had a lot of good themes in it that I feel are relevant now. Yeah. I mean, it's inevitable that it would be dated. So it was quite dated. But nevertheless, still really good, I think. Jordan Catalano. Oh, Jared Leto. My, my God. So, yeah, that's what I would have been watching. Yeah, I watched those two as well. And also, in addition to that, Heartbreak High. Oh, God, yes. So it turns out I've always had a thing for Australian dramas.

50:28This one was a gritty team drama set in high school. Yes. And I was just obsessed with the relationship of Anita, played by Lara Cox, and Jurassic, played by Callan Mulvey who had a Boyd you'd like him he was a skateboarder plus he had an eyebrow ring so yeah oh my gosh I love that romance yeah he was well rad that's what I was watching what about you Boyd eh? well mine would be in 1983 when I was 60 and I didn't I mean at that point I wasn't really rushing home to watch kind of teen stuff but what I would have been watching probably I think probably like the news boring enough once I got home I would be watching the news the news you know 6 o 'clock news At 16, it was your priority to get home and keep up with current affairs.

51:13Yeah, because what people forget is, right, now that I've mentioned it with the news, is you didn't have the internet back then. Oh, this is true. Now, by osmosis, you didn't have social media, you didn't have anything telling you. You didn't know anything. You had to watch the fucking news to know what was happening in the world. And so it was my priority. I'm not saying I wasn't a dweeb who was like, you know, probably should have been watching. This explains why you're so intelligent. You are very intelligent. I'm not saying that. But probably the first show of the evening that I would have watched after the news, like religiously, at that time, I have to admit it was Coronation Street.

51:50Wow. What? Yeah, because I was looking at the storylines. Then it was Dallas and Dynasty after that. At one point, you basically got like Corrie around 7.30, 8.00, and probably Dynasty at 8.00 and then Dallas at 9.00 was a thing. Yeah. In my memory, anyway. People were probably right in saying no, that never happened. But I think it did. And so Dallas and Dynasty were huge. I remember watching those very clearly with my mum. We were both obsessed with those. And that was the era. Dallas was absolutely at its height. I looked up 21 million people watch Dallas every single week on BBC One. But before that, Coronation Street also had some of its biggest ratings ever for the storyline involving Ken and Deirdre Barlow and Deirdre having an affair with Mike Baldwin.

52:34a huge cultural event that was that made the news I remember distinctly what you were doubling down you were double dicing on Corey by the news and the actual soap so BBC literally reported on this storyline because it was so all encompassing in the culture in pop culture at that time yeah it made me think how weird it must have been to not really know you had to buy the other thing is you had to buy the radio and TV Times to know what was going on I did radio Times went on strike for a huge period at one point it didn't put your shoes out because there was some involvement it pretty much was owned by the BBC so it was kind of a BBC based strike that affected the radio times all these things kept flooding back to me in 1983 it was quite a year 1983 as well there was loads of good TV but I won't go into that but yeah it would have been effectively the news and Corrie my last question before we move on who was the BBC news anchor at the time oh no you're talking I don't wouldn't have been Michael Burke right no it could have been it could have been yeah I mean it was only a few years before 85 was Live Aid you know when which was inspired by his report from Ethiopia.

53:33So could well have been Michael Burke, actually. The great MB. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, that's me anyway from 1980s. We also, when James gets back, need to find out what kind of school he went to, which finished at 6.15. Well, didn't he? I mean, that is insane. I know, that is a long day. Yeah, wow. I mean, I think I finished at 5, didn't you? I don't know. What? I think so. Why did you finish at 5? I don't know. I may be wrong again. Anyone listening, Andrew Wilson, and my friend from school is listening, maybe you correct me. Yeah, can he please? But in my mind it was about five. Well, I think maybe, yeah, anyway, who knows.

54:07Give me the nod to move on again. This is fantastic. Don't do this to James. Yeah, move on, James. Just let him do whatever the hell he wants to drone on about. Anyway, let's move on indeed to the news. TV, television-based news. I'm going to start with one thing because I watched this today, this trailer for, I think, is the most exciting new show of the autumn. Do you know what it's going to be? No. Can you guess? No, when you said trailer, I thought you were going to talk about Only Murders in the Building, which I was going to talk about. Well, I haven't watched that trailer because I've actually watched episodes, whole episodes of the new series of Only.

54:44I didn't mention that in what we've been watching because I thought it would be another example of an irritating thing for listeners to know that I'm just watching stuff. Yeah, that is. Way in advance and I can't review it, but I haven't watched a couple. You'll be doing a James. I've watched a couple episodes of that. But the trailer I've watched today is for Task. Task. Oh, yes. Mark Ruffalo. Mark Ruffalo. Task is the Mark Ruffalo crime drama coming up, which is created by Brad Inglesby, who created, does anyone know? Mare of Easttown. Yes. I'm only saying this because I've got this news story written down.

55:15Yes, fair enough. Do you watch the trailer, though? No. Oh, well, I mean, thankfully I have watched it. And I would say the trailer is brilliant. it really gets you like embroiled in the thing and really gets you wanting to watch it and the whole trailer plays out to the song Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd which is and I've said this Your favourite song? One of my favourite songs of all time the way I say it about films yeah it is one of my favourites this is really for you so give us a little what's it about though? it's about he is he's a kind of cop investigating crimes involving seemingly decent people like a biker there's a biker gang of some kind involved in it he's a grizzled cop who's done who's clearly he hasn't been with his family enough he's been neglecting his family his boss is by Martha Plimpton the legend who I also interviewed for this podcast a couple of years ago for a Sky show that she was on but remember Martha Plimpton from Parenthood of course of course legend so just that dynamic I'm excited about because I saw him interacting with her telling him what to do it just looks like as Mayor of Easttown captured that atmosphere of like working class American small town life.

56:24This feels very much in the same universe. Yeah. Or be it with Mark Ruffalo as the lead rather than Kate Winslet. And we don't have long to wait, do we? No, September 7th. September 8th, sorry. September 8th, coming to Sky and now. But I'm very excited about that after having seen the trailer. Me too. Talking of trailers, as I mentioned, I watched the Only Murders in the Building series five trailer. And I have to say, so you know I've been lukewarm on it. I'm excited for this one. So there's another, obviously there's another Murder in the Building. which this time sees the gang taking on the mob.

56:55Have you watched all the previous seasons? So do you know who the... Do you know who it was who got murdered at the end of this? Because the person gets murdered. Wait, no. I'm just asking. I just want to know. Do you know? Yes, I think so, yeah. Well, you know you've confused me. But anyway, so this... I'm excited for this series. Okay. But yeah, so the doorman is the death they're investigating. Yes, in the fountain. Yes. Yes. So the doorman character was great anyway. I know. I'm sad about the Dorman character dying but you know we'll see a lot in flashback I'm guessing yeah at the very least yeah having seen the first couple of episodes and it's got some great guest stars so René Zellweger's in it Logan Lerman Taylor Leone Keegan-Michael Key Beanie Felsteed loads of great names so I'm excited for this yeah I like the show we nearly killed it off by doing a weekly spoiler special discussions of it didn't we we nearly killed the show off and nearly killed James off yeah although he just like he opted out.

57:52Yeah. Oh, did he? Yeah, yeah. It was an opt-out. Does he not like it? No, he doesn't. No, it's too silly for him. It's a comedy, silly comedy. I'm not going to like it. It's too silly for that silly sausage. But we confronted him about that when we said you love friends and that's very silly. Oh, we always confront him about it. Oh, he's nothing if not an oxymoron but he acknowledges that. Okay. Just leave out the oxy. Yeah. Steph? So, have you talked about this Michelle Keegan new ITV drama that she's going to be in? No, because it was breaking news this morning, I think. Okay, so, Michelle Keegan is confirmed for this ITV drama with unexpected twists.

58:24So it's going to be a six-part series called The Blame, where she plays D.I. Crane. I mean, I love Michelle. I think Michelle Keegan is such an incredible actress. Are we in agreement on that? Yes. Yeah? Yeah, I think she's a great actress. Okay. So she is leading the cast as D.I. Emma Crane, and she's going to be joined by Douglas Booth from The Dirt, who will take on the aforementioned character of D.I. Tom Radley. Oh, it sounds very exciting. Oh, my God. Yeah. Other people... Oh, it's got Joe Armstrong in it, Nigel Ball from Line of Duty. Okay, based on the novel of the same name by Charlotte Langley.

59:02Sounds fantastic. That was live news digestion for me there. Live news, yes. Sorry. You know, you'd only read the first bit and then you got more excited as you went... Oh, you know, it is exciting. Well, I do love Michelle Keegan, so I'm very excited. I'm very keen on it. Okay, so I've got a bit of news. and it's involving Soho, a place where you used to work. Oh, we did. And Boyd, one of Boyd's favourite places. Shut up.

59:28Listeners, we've been trying to get this new story out. I'm going to draw the veil away. And apparently it's fascinating because I love Soho. I'm apparently the main lover of Soho. Anyway, yes, carry on. So anyway, Stephen Fry will be narrating a documentary about Soho and its future. Apparently, it's going to blend verite storytelling with unique access behind the doors of Soho's most celebrated establishment. Oh, that's interesting. And the residents who call Soho their home. So, yeah. The future of Soho. Why is Soho's future in jeopardy? I think it's been really... High rents and, you know, a lot of the small boutique-y type shops.

1:00:04Excuse me, I've got my voice. The small boutique-y type shops are closed down and pubs are closed down. Gay pubs are closed down. All around, all around. Yeah, it's definitely... Wait up and smell the coffee, Steph. It's not good if you're a Soho. You living in your ivory tower in Luton. Exactly. It's a different world, Luton. I really, yeah, gosh, sorry. Luton near Guildford. This show that I'm about to discuss, I was kind of aware of it, but I hadn't fully sunk in as to who was responsible for this show that's coming up. Anyway, it's a show called Prodigies, and the news story that broke today is that John Malkovich, the great John Malkovich, which has been added to the cast of this show, which is an Apple TV Plus rom-com.

1:00:46But the exciting thing about this show is it's created by and stars Will Sharp of most recently Too Much fame and The White Lotus Season 2. And the main stars are him, himself, and Ayo Edebiri from the aforementioned The Bear. Yes. The standout, some might say. Yes, yes. Supporting star of The Bear. She's absolutely brilliant. I absolutely would say she's a standout. You know, she gets her own episodes, which are often the best episodes in the whole series sometimes, one might say. So the whole idea of Will Sharp and her together as the romantic leads in the show. And it talks about how the ex-child prodigies have been together since they were children.

1:01:21Now in their early 30s, they're starting to question whether their very ordinary existence is living up to the extraordinary promise of their childhood. That's interesting. I mean, what more could you want? And Will Sharp is a very, very, very, three verys, talented writer and star. Sounds fab. Yeah. Kate, any more? No, that's me done. Wow, no, just a no. No, that's extensive Soho news that she's brought to us. Yeah, I mean, we know that you don't know much because you'd forgotten we do TV news. I forgot you did this segment. What about the fact that the Meghan show's back for second series and that Harry and Meghan have signed a new deal?

1:01:55Because people were... No, no, no. No, hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. I'm bringing this up deliberately, provocatively. Okay, the Meghan show was always filmed. No, I know. Okay, so it was always going to be a second season. But the news is... So the second season date's confirmed. I think it's coming out in the end of August. Sorry, because that was really vicious. I was like a vicious attack on you. I know, because I was just, obviously, he's going to, you know, sorry. But the news was that they've renewed, Netflix has renewed their contract with Harry and Meghan. That was the news that broke this week.

1:02:26Because I did, a lot of people speculated that they might dump them, Netflix might dump them. Yeah, because they hadn't sold enough wine. Yeah, all of that. But in fact, they're fully on board with them, apparently, and giving them even more money to make even more shows than they already were working on. If you believe a lot of what's written in the media, many people have said that the reason that they're signing, they've re-signed Meghan, is... And just in case anything happens in Meghan's life that they think, you know, like if there's any kind of, you know, if they split up or there's anything, they want to keep them on side because obviously they're the gift that keeps giving with the extensive royal dramas.

1:03:04And a lot's been written about that, that she, she's, you know, you know, if anything happens, they'll be able to get it. You mean if they split up is what you're saying? Yeah, I just don't want to say it because it's too sad. I mean, it's fine. Things happen. I'm not saying they will, they won't, you know, who knows. but yeah that's a plausible explanation anyway the season 2 arrives on August 26th and it does involve it does include you'll be pleased to know doing crafts with Chrissy Teigen well you know I like crafts I mean yeah I think I think you like Chrissy Teigen Chrissy Teigen I love Chrissy Teigen obviously she's half-tie so I'm very happy with Chrissy Teigen or Teigen you are the Chrissy Teigen is it Teigen or Teigen it's actually Teigen is it?

1:03:43you could have corrected me it would have been fine I wouldn't have needed to correct you because she actually I think it was last year put out a post with her mum saying to everyone you've all been calling me Tegan it's Tygen it's Chrissy Tygen and she gets her mum to pronounce it oh I don't feel that bad about it now Chrissy Tygen who famously married to John Legend who I also love and I also love Megan so you know for me that's a go it's all good it's official I don't like wine though so I won't be buying any of the affiliate wine no okay do you not drink at all I don't drink at all oh yeah I forgot about that I know like a total like you know Kay sometimes claims to be a non-drinker but I've been with her so many times where she's blind drunk.

1:04:21Oh, please. I know for a fact that that is not true. Boy, you would not be able to handle me if I was blind drunk. Oh, well, I mean, I'm sure that's true, but you haven't denied that you're blind drunk, though. No, I don't get blind drunk. I mean, whether I can handle you or not. I occasionally have a glass or two of champagne or Prosecco, and then that is me drunk because I'm such a lightweight. Anyway, people haven't tuned in for this, haven't they? No, before we move to one more thing in news I wanted to mention, which is that Wednesday, which you guys reviewed very eloquently in the Pilot Plus episode without me the other week, is just as massive as season one.

1:04:55So season two, part one, they divide it into two seasons. 50 million views in five days it's got on the Netflix. Wow. Which makes it its biggest English language show of all time. Isn't that quite extraordinary? Because it's decent, you know, I like it, enjoy it and everything. But I am slightly taken aback, you know, that it's not Bridgerton, it's not Stranger Things it's Wednesday yeah but it's like the tween power isn't it the tween power is enormous it's this it's this K-pop demon hunters situation like I've watched it about 37 times in my household alone so I can only imagine how many times it's been watched that must be crazy high up there and with Steph wrongly watching different seasons on Wednesday she's probably amassing a lot of views yeah and I say that as someone who also wrongly watches it's probably the biggest show of all time because Steph's watch it multiple times to make sure you're watching the right episode.

1:05:48Don't. It didn't have any multi-factor authentication bullshit. This is actually the sentence of the news story. This is brilliant for you. And overall, the second most watched English language TV title of the week was Wednesday season one. Thanks to renewed interest in the series slash people watching the wrong one. Exactly. Exactly. I'm with you people. I stand with you. Yeah, brilliant. So yeah, Wednesday. Fucking huge. Yeah. Pardon my grotesque language. Anyway, let's move on to reviews, Kay. Again, Kay giving me the eagle eye, saying, just move on. She is keeping everyone in order in a very elegant way.

1:06:26I know that I have to have a firm hand with Boyd. Yes, absolutely. Let's begin. Let us begin with The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. As I mentioned in my intro, that's not me editorialising. That's the title of this show that's going out on Disney Plus this week, Wednesday August 20th. It's a limited series inspired by the story of how Amanda Knox was wrongfully convicted for the tragic murder of a remote Meredith Kirchhoff. One of the most famous true crime stories, I would say, of the last however many years. It stars Grace Van Patten, John Huguenacker, Francesco Acquiroli, Giuseppe Domenico, Roberta Matai, and the reason I listed all those stars was to get the surprise, shock guest star, Sharon Horgan for FFS.

1:07:13Shall I go as the queen of crime that you are? I feel I should turn to you, Steph, because you probably know every single ruddy detail of this case. I know a lot about this case. It is an incredibly famous case happening in Perugia in Italy. It is the murder of Meredith Kircher, who was a British exchange student. She was found murdered in the apartment that she was renting with several other girls, Amanda Knox being one of them. It, I mean, I don't even know how to start kind of with how horrifying the actual murder was. But this, she was found in her apartment, covered in a duvet, she had been murdered.

1:08:01And what happened in the actual life, it was that Amanda Knox and her boyfriend And Raphael Celesteau were eventually arrested and tried and found guilty of her murder, along with a third person, Rudy Guede, who then did eventually serve 16 years for the crime. They served four years, Raphael and Amanda Knox, for a crime which essentially they did not commit. So they were exonerated? They were exonerated. They were exonerated. And Amanda went back to live in America. She's now married and she has a child. And much has been made of this as a real kind of example of trial by media. And she was vilified, absolutely vilified in the press from almost from day one for being a young woman who enjoyed sex.

1:09:02She was very kind of ostentatious, you know, lots of images of her. And she earned the monarch's, you know, foxy noxy. So she was, they photographed her at the scene of the crime, if you like, kind of canoodling with her boyfriend of a week. Yes, eight days. She'd been with Raphael and yeah, she was reported as doing cartwheels. and she was an incredibly famous, a kind of iconic picture of that time when she was kissing her boyfriend outside the crime scene where there were investigators around. She has partnered, she's the executive producer on this and a creative partner. Pretty key point to make.

1:09:44This is her story, right? Right. This is her story and it's actually based on her book Waiting to be Heard. So what she has said about the making of this is that she was not prepared to have another person tell her own story. Okay, and this, it's very, it's incredibly difficult to kind of see it from the point of view of Meredith Kirch's family who have made a statement about it. And I am going to read that statement. So her sister has said, our family has been through so much and it is difficult to understand how this serves any purpose of the making of this. I think it's really important to understand that there is a victim here, a young woman who lost her life in a horrific way, who's Meredith Kircher.

1:10:30There is also another victim here, and it is Amanda Knox. Amanda Knox was a victim of a gross miscarriage of justice here. And what she is attempting to do with her creative input in there is tell the story. What I would say is that this is not the first time that this story has been told, and it's not the first time a story has been told by her in 2016 there was a netflix documentary which is very much a talking heads documentary and she um goes into great detail about everything that happened and i feel like that was very if you haven't watched that i would say watch that it's a great example of you know you've got all the people involved in the case and she is to camera talking incredibly emotionally about what she went through um in that time this if i can go straight ahead to what how i feel about it this is not that this feels very much i watched two two episodes because when i first started watching it i i was kind of appalled at the glamorization and the i don't know it's very stylized it's very stylized i also there's a lightness of tone right and a quirkiness to the storytelling that at first i found very jarring yes because i was like so for example you know just stylistic choices like these postcards come to life and there's like there's a right there's a yeah this lightness as i say and i found it jarring and then actually in time what i began to realize is it's reflective of her personality which is quirky and eccentric and which is the whole part of this which she says that was used against her in fact there's this quote she said every quirk used to brand me a monster um so then i i understood it more but at first i found it like i was almost repelled by it because i thought that you know this is a really serious crime why have they chosen to do it like this even though she's chosen to do it but um yeah then i then i grew to understand it but i don't know for my part and i'm not a true crime lover as you know um i i respect her right to tell her story and she's executive producer on this alongside Monica Lewinsky who is obviously uh trial by media as well so they're you know there's an agenda there and I understand that however I think she's done this Netflix documentary she's written books she's been part of podcasts etc etc so it's not like her story has never been told from her perspective and so I just can't imagine how horrifying this must be for her Meredith Kirch's family because you know I mean the performances are great they are great like grace van patten and sharon hawk everyone involved but well it's just is this necessary i think one of the things i would say is i think this is incredibly odd choice for sharon hawgan she plays amanda's mother and i was i literally wrote down sharon hawgan wtf i cannot understand why she's involved herself in this project because it is i i i cannot could not agree with you more and you know let's just come back in i am in the business of you know crime for a level of like I I'm the editor of a crime magazine I I write a lot about crime stories this is so finessed in May you know people who don't know this story people who don't know that this is a crime it's it's so much it's such a sensationalized stylized way of telling someone's story and and this sounds I don't buy her I wasn't having any I don't I don't think it does anything for her image to say, well, I wasn't having anyone else tell my story.

1:13:58Well, no, you've already told your story. You know, now this is glossy. This is super glossy. What do you think? And I... It didn't sit well with me. Yeah, I'm conflicted about it, to be honest. So, first of all, with Sharon Horgan, I presume she was just offered a role and she thought, this is an interesting story and probably everyone knows the story and everyone knows that part of the story, at least, is a miscarriage of justice. And, you know, I think, you know, it doesn't take much to think Amanda Knox deserves a lot of sympathy for having gone through an excruciating... For me, I think in many ways, there's nothing, apart from actually, you know, being murdered, in terms of things happening to you, a miscarriage of justice on this scale is absolutely appalling.

1:14:45And so I can kind of sympathise with her as to why she's felt the need to be able to tell a story in whatever way she wants across multiple, as you've alluded to, you know, media. And so, but, so that's, I think, I think from Sharon Haugen's point of view or anyone else who's cast in the show. And I love Sharon Haugen, I would just say. Anyone, all the actors probably thought this is, you know, this is a really interesting story. I want to be part of this thing that is part, talking about how exonerating this poor woman from what she's been into. The disclaimer is extraordinary. I'm going to get to, I'm going to read the disclaimer because it's quite long, but it is fascinating.

1:15:20This game at the end of each episode, this pops up. While this story is inspired by actual events, certain characters, characterizations, incidents, locations, and dialogue were fictionalized or imagined for the purpose of dramatization, including certain characters which were composited and or fictionalized for that same purpose. With respect, any such fictionalization or imagination, any similarity to the name or to the actual character or history of any person living or dead, or any product or entity or actual incident, It's entirely for dramatic purpose. Basically. How do they fit that on one screen?

1:15:54Oh my God, it's incredible. The series includes, it ends with, the series includes Amanda Knox's perspective on events related to the murder marriage of Kirk. Yeah, we know. I'm conflicted because I think that there was another way of making this show that you wouldn't have had to even think about the morality of the execution of the show. What you're talking about, the tone of it, which is borderline comedic, at least in the first episode. Yes. And it is, by the way, beautifully shot, like incredibly elaborately directed. It's very, as I said, it's very heavily stylized, all of that. There was a way of telling the story very straight-laced, like a vanilla version of this show, right?

1:16:40Yeah. And that's what, and from the title onwards, so the twisted tale, right? It sets you up for what the program makes. and I'm not sure, remember this is, you know, produced and directed by people who worked on this kind of show and worked on American dramas before. They've turned, in answer to the question of Meredith Kirch's family, asking that kind of rhetorical question about, you know, what does this add to anything? Well, I'll tell you what it does add. It's entertainment. This is. Yes. Now, I'm not, our moral judgment of that is neither here nor there, or we will be in a minute when I explain my version of events.

1:17:15But it's certainly, it's absolutely pitched as an entertaining way of telling this story. And I do think, not so much Amanda Knox, but I think everyone involved in the making of this show has to now almost own it and go, well, some people are going to be repelled by it, I think, the way it's done. Do you know what? I think I would have preferred a vanilla version of it. because I think, you know, sometimes like when we talked about The Count of Monte Cristo, for example, and I know it sounds weird that I'm comparing those, but you know, you were like, I need it to do something more. I need it to, you know, ramp it up a bit or reinvent it somehow or bring something extra.

1:17:52With something like this, I just want it plainly told. But again, this is not the first time that this has had a kind of feature film. Like Hayden Panettiere famously, a few years later, a few years after the murder, she starred as Amanda Knox in a film of this. This is not the first time it's had this treatment. It's the way it's being told. Yeah, it's completely off for me. If this had been done, I don't think a British dramatisation of this show would ever have gone down this route. Do you know what I mean? I think there's been so many very sober, you know, like all of the true crime shows that you get, the true crime dramas I'm talking about, the dramatisations that have been done, whether it's White House Farm just off the top of my head.

1:18:34There's a whole, every other week there's a new one. you know, often ITV, nine, but those are always told with a real kind of almost earnest devotion to trying to be objective and to not sensationalize. Yeah, it doesn't... This is... Sensitivity has gone from this. Everyone involved in this show seems to have gone, screw that, we're going to have fun with this. Let's go big and bold, yeah. And that is a decision. Yeah, I agree. And what's interesting is, I think like, I almost think, you know, Amanda Knox herself has had to judge, you know, the way she's been treated by people and quite right too.

1:19:07But I do feel like some of the moral, some of, not all of, but some of the moral power of her story is reduced by the way the show has been made. She actually has written the finale, I think, co-written the finale. But, you know, it's written and, we could talk about this for hours, but I just think it's such a bold decision to film it the way they filmed it. She says... That it takes you a bad... I was taking a bad bite. She says at one point she was, you know, when they kind of had the court scene, she found it really, really difficult. I think my main point about this, okay, is she's saying, I want to tell my story.

1:19:45I don't want somebody else to tell my story. I feel the story has been told in many different ways and many different ways by her. And I feel that I don't... I disagree with you because I think that's fine. I think she has the right to do it. But it's this particular way that this story has been told in this drama that I find quite shocking. and should we say the very least, a daring, bolder, possibly misguided choice. Yes, because my issue with it is because she is the creative partner. So she has had that input. And I can't imagine, like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to her. But if this was, as we talked about, sorry, just one more question for you.

1:20:24If this was done in a sober, as I was alluding to, like a kind of British TV drama type way, like a sober telling of the story, no flashy photography, no animated postcards and all of that stuff yeah it's totally a stylistic problem so that's what I'm saying to you you keep saying that I'm not you know criticizing you but you bring up all the other but if this has been yet another thing a drama co-produced by her with her input but done in a sober way you wouldn't have had as much of a problem with it maybe I wouldn't have had as much of a problem but I still think I think the fact that she did the Netflix documentary I don't I haven't seen the Netflix documentary the Netflix documentary is absolutely fantastic and it's exactly what you'd want you've seen it haven't you Rip so you know no I haven't oh you haven't seen it what I mean is if you haven't seen it then I think a lot of people haven't seen it and so it's valid for her to tell a story in this dramatic way which is possibly we'll probably get more viewers than the documentary because this is a big bold you know Hulu slash Disney plus production I'd be very interested to see how this is received because me as an editor for crime magazine I really didn't like it and I watched obviously a shitload of these kinds of things but actually that's the point I don't watch a shitload of these kinds of things because this feels like a very kind of different way to do it.

1:21:36And I didn't like it. It didn't sit well with me. I think I agree wholeheartedly with everything Kay said. Okay. I have mixed feelings. It's really interesting and complicated. Let's just say the way they've done it is extraordinary and bold and I think people will be fascinated by it. And I think I almost, I watched the first two episodes as well. And I feel like the second episode is less. The second episode is much better. It does tone it down, but it's still. It may be, this is the way to draw people in to make it this kind of entertaining or whatever. Anyway, it's complicated, that's for sure.

1:22:06It is complicated. And we have complicated views on it. You've decided for yourself, The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is on Disney Plus from Wednesday, August 20th, 2025. And we move on, Kay. Yes. To Mudtown. Not Mudlark. No. Or Mudland. We've had various iterations, haven't we, while we're discussing this, pre-discussing it. This is a new six-part legal drama starring Erin Richards as Magistrate Claire Lewis-Jones, who faces personal turmoil while presiding over cases in Newport, Wales. Kay, what do you make of Mudtown? You had to think then, didn't you? I did have to think then. I really enjoy this.

1:22:50I thought this was a good, solid drama. Erin Richards stars as Claire, who is a part-time magistrate slash warehouse worker. She's a mum of two. And her life gets very complicated when her past comes back to haunt her. So she's presiding over this case. The episode starts off with an arsonist setting fire to a warehouse as kids are raving. And then Claire presides over that case. And she has connections to it. So she is compromised. And it becomes even more complicated when a person from her past, namely a man called Peter, played by Tom Cullen, who's very brooding, and encounters her in a toilet looking like the milk tray man, I'd say.

1:23:35Oh, God, yeah. Not just any toilet, the toilet at the magistrate's court, by the way. Yes, sorry, at the magistrate's court. Just a little random. Yeah, not just a random toilet in the court. And he asks a favour of her. And we immediately get the sense that she owes him for something. So they've got a connection. There's a mysterious past between them that we've yet to explore, but it's very compelling. On top of that, she's got issues at home. Her daughter is playing up. She's in with a bad crowd. Oh, her daughter's so annoying. Daughter is annoying, but probably quite reflective of teenagers.

1:24:07And, yeah, so basically the combination of this current case, this arson case, her daughter kicking off, plus Peter the criminal boss, who she has connections and links to. Who's known as Saint Pete, by the way. Yeah, that's his dodgy criminal name. Yeah. And so it means that both her old world, her new life, they're all colliding and it's definitely going to be catastrophic. But I found this to be very compelling, mainly because of her. I think Erin Richards, there's such a warmth to her performance, but also this character is funny as well, which makes it, yeah, she's very appealing and compelling to watch.

1:24:46and this whole chemistry with her and Peter, I'm very, I'm engaged with it. Yeah, her character is so well fleshed out. She's absolutely brilliant. I cannot believe, and I have to say, generally, I love the Welsh. These people... They'll be thrilled. Yeah, but do you know what? This also, this is in Welsh. You can get this in Welsh and they filmed it back to back. That's the thing that... How hardworking is that? They started doing that a few years ago. Keeping Faith. Yeah, Keeping Faith, exactly. Yeah, Keeping Faith, rather. Yeah, just done. And it's now a tradition. A lot of BBC and S4C productions of Welsh dramas are filmed in English and Welsh.

1:25:23Bring it on. I'm very impressed. Very, very impressed. Yeah, and very impressed with Erin Richards. Her hair is sensational, can I just say. Now, as an aside, isn't her haircut great? It's amazing. But yeah, she completely dominates every scene she's in. I think she's... We should also say Matthew Gravel is in this. Oh, yeah. And he is great as Alan. who he's got this shifty vibe. So obviously something's going on. We don't know what's going on with him. Is that her husband? Yeah. I think he's in debt. I feel like he's in debt. There's something going on. Yeah, there's financial shenanigans yesterday early on.

1:25:54He's set to shifty mode. He can't use the credit card because he's done something. What do you think, Boydo? I enjoyed it, yeah. I did enjoy it. I think she is brilliant. I'm a big fan of Tom Cullen anyway who's fantastic. Most of the time he's in the gold. Yeah. He's brilliant. And he kind of pops up. They save him to right before, I would say like the last 15 minutes You see him earlier on, sorry. You do glimpse him earlier on, dealing with showing that he's this godgy guy who's somehow connected to the arson case. But actually, you hear him speaking, the meeting in the toilet, the famous toilet in the magistrate's court, is really well done and really effective.

1:26:30And he's a brooding, scary presence. Yes, he's very hunky. He's also very hunky. He was very good in The Weeknd, which is a classic film. Yeah, he's delightful. He is brilliant. And can I just say, though, God, do you know Kimberley Nixon in this, who plays the mother of one of the boys who I love from Fresh Meat. Do you remember Fresh Meat? I was like, she's not old enough to be that boy's mum. Fresh Meat's a long time ago. Yeah. And then I realised, oh no, she's actually 40 in real life so she is old enough. Well, I have to say, so I enjoyed it a lot. I think it was well done. I think the script was clever.

1:27:00There were lots of funny little banter-y asides between her and her fellow magistrates and stuff like that which in other hands could be cheesy and you know. I'll tell you why. So it's, yeah, sorry, it's, Weezy dialogue. Sorry to interrupt. I wanted to say it's actually co-written by Hannah Daniel and Georgia Lee, who's actually a part-time magistrate. Oh, there you go. So I think she used her experience. Yeah, it rang through, and I thought the banter was well done. It didn't feel like, it was quite funny. Yeah, like when she says, let's have a cup of tea and a jammy dodger, you get away with it.

1:27:28Yeah, just about. But for me, where it turned was the storyline involving Kimberly Nixon's son is really, really shocking and powerful. And I thought that actually, amidst all the kind of, and it almost is because it is established quite an authentic realistic kind of tone to it unlike the I mean the contrast between the Amanda Knox show and this couldn't be great this is literally filmed almost you barely even notice the direction you know you just kind of enjoy enjoy the characters and the story let it play out Amanda Knox is all over a dazzling before your eyes like thing over the top thing this is very much not over the top and so and that pays off I think emotionally I totally agree with what happens in it it's quite powerful yeah no I thought with the Amanda Knox So it's just the vibe of the circus has come to town.

1:28:15That's very true. Yeah. Anyway, Mudtown is a You and Alibi show. Yeah. And it starts, you can watch it live on You and Alibi from Wednesday, the 20th of August, 9pm, 2025. Or, of course, you can stream on Sky, Virgin Media and Now and all six episodes will be available on that day. I'm going to continue watching it. Well, and why not? Okay. Finally, in terms of reviews, we have got Peacemaker this is the show this is the DC Universe show that is written and created by James Gunn the actual film director whose most recent film is Superman also in the DC Universe so he's a massively powerful now Hollywood figure who controls all of the DC Universe films Superman, Batman he controls the DC Universe he literally controls the DC Universe but he found time to make series 2 of this TV show Peacemaker what a gent which is about effectively a superhero with no superpowers but you know we'll get into that Steph it's going to have to be you it took you it took you a long time to crack open the mystery of how to watch this show was it worth it right okay I'm just going to say when you get to kind of 24 minutes in and there is a cocaine induced orgy yes I was like what is happening and I looked around to see who else was watching my screen at work because it goes on for so long.

1:29:44It's like, when I say an orgy, it's like such a big orgy. It's, I mean, I... Huge orgy. It's very graphic. It's very graphic. It's some big genitals. Yeah, big genitals, big everything. The bag of cocaine, which was labelled ready in case of emergency or something like that. You know, it's crazy. But John Senna, who plays the central role, who plays a peacemaker, and his... What is it? What bird is it that he's got? It's like an eagle. It's an eagle. It's literally called Eagly, I think. Is it called Eagly? I think so. I think you're right. Yeah, he's very nice. Yeah, he lives in this strange place which just looks like a skyscraper build.

1:30:23It's very odd, the whole thing. But it is very filmic. I like it. I love John Senna as a main character. I find him very watchable and very amusing. I found a lot of it very baffling. As we say, this is season two. This is his and two. I'm guessing neither of you have seen season one. We've thrown you into season two. No, but I do love superhero stuff. He is, you know, sympathetic as a sort of sad superhero. So I enjoyed that. But yeah, I did find it quite, the gear shifts were quite extreme and I found that a bit baffling. But maybe that's because I haven't watched season one. So I wasn't as invested in the characters.

1:31:04But I'm very invested in John Senna and I found it very enjoyable and humorous. This is a multiverse thing, we should say. So I think what happens in series one, he kind of saves the world somehow anyway, despite not having superpowers, but because he's a big, muscly ex-wrestler. I mean, obviously, the actor, not necessarily the character. But he's a big dude who somehow kind of helped save the world. And this is like a different, he enters a different universe, a different version of what happened. So this is a whole different version of what happened in season one. Okay, so the genesis of this is Suicide Squad, is it?

1:31:35all of that yeah and in fact your favourite actor who we discussed Nathan Fillion is in it which I enjoyed as Green Lantern who is in the Superman film so this is all connected it's all interconnected it's all kind of taking place in a multiverse etc but it's all but it's kind of like a TV version of it's very Deadpool in tone isn't it it's very Deadpool which I love and it's also reminded me Kay I think we reviewed together The Boys remember The Boys which was the superhero the satirical superhero show on Prime Video. Rings a bell. I mean, maybe you weren't there. Maybe we didn't review it with you.

1:32:09But certainly that's a show that James and I both really like. That's the satirical thing where the superheroes are kind of nasty, horrible twats. Right. And it's up to the PRs who work with them to kind of make sure their outer image is portrayed. So it's kind of satire on news and image and fakeness, fake news and all of that and the superhero genre as a whole. Yeah. The boys. what's interesting is the boys has orgy scenes as well why is there so many orgies and it's almost like for me I'll find out what you think in a minute but for me as extraordinary as that orgy scene was and by the way I had to kind of like why is this suddenly happening in the middle of the show I almost had to rewind did I miss something yeah it's because he got a little bit upset didn't he yeah he got a little bit upset and suddenly this orgy takes place he almost doesn't it doesn't know it's going to happen and I'm still baffled I'm still baffled it was because he felt a bit rejected then he went home to kind of like you know you know make himself feel better yes yeah by inviting lots of naked people to have sex in front of him with him i couldn't quite understand whether if that was sort of him hallucinating right or not no i think i think i think it was actually taking i don't think it was hallucinating okay i don't think you're supposed to think it was hallucinating anyway that scene and various and tonally this show is incredibly similar to the boys right and And I almost felt like, obviously, I'm not saying James Gunn did this, you know, consciously, but it did feel like it was kind of almost trying to outdo, because The Boys has outrageous sexual activity throughout each series so far.

1:33:44It had some amazing moments during its own orgies, et cetera. And I launched this, I got to that scene, I thought, oh, my God, he's literally like, well, whatever The Boys can do, we can do better. But I don't think that's just how it came across to me. But I'm sure it's accidental. I'm sure he may not even watch The Boys. I don't know. So it felt a bit like an incompletion with that show. But when it calmed down, I think the scene where he got interviewed by including Green Lantern was really funny. Yeah. Now, I knew that the broken mic joke. It went on too long. It went on too long. And I also knew what was going to happen.

1:34:16You knew what the joke was, right? But I still thought it was well done and quite funny. And they had moments like that that I found amusing. But it just feels, for me, as a consumer of it, very, very similar to The Boys. Kay, what did you think? So I haven't got a lot to say because I haven't seen series one. That's why I just stepped in and droned on for hours. No, I appreciate that. So I wasn't overly invested with these characters. I think my takeaway thing was I thought it would have been funnier. I didn't find it that funny. Like that joke that you alluded to, I could see it coming and then they just went on and on and it kept on going.

1:34:51So I just didn't think it was very well written or funny. She's, well, I mean, she has missed her words, Steph. yeah did you find it entertaining well I think if you like John Senna it's the John Senna show isn't it he does spend half the first episode of wandering around in his pants yeah I mean I enjoy John Senna and I think he's nice and I think he's nice I think he's nice no I like him as an actor and I think I read that this show was born out of the fact that they that Mr. Gunn let's call him Mr. Gunn James Gunn recognised that John Senna was a great dramatic actor and that's why he's got this role.

1:35:29Yeah, I agree. He carries the whole thing. His charm, and he's kind of got doofus quality to him. He's trying to work out what's going on, and he isn't quite getting it. I think it totally rests on him being that good in this role, and he is the best thing about it. But I think I agree with Kay that, in the end, I love Superman. I love James Gunn's Superman, which is still in cinemas everywhere, by the way, if you want to watch it, check it out. But it's got James Gunn's sense of humour, when we did Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah. He's got this... He's got that sensibility to it. He's got this sensibility that's very comedic.

1:36:06Yeah. Everything he does, pretty much, you know, including all his DC stuff, has a wry comedic sensibility to it. And I think that works very well in Superman. Funny. I mean, me and James disagree about this massively. James hated Superman. Okay. Absolutely hated it. Let's not dwell. I believe he likes Peacemaker. Oh. so whereas I'm the opposite way, I really like Superman, I'm not so keen on Peacemaker, it's not funny enough, or witty enough for me, and there's not enough, in the storyline, for me, it's a TV show, of an eight part, however many episodes, to keep you watching, I just don't think, there's enough dramatic tension, going on, in the story, to embroil you, so again, going back to the, I'm sorry, one more time, going back to the comparison, with the boys, actually the boys, has more for me, narrative drive, than this show, weirdly, so yeah, I think at incredible moments, if you want to see an orgy scene, one of the most extraordinary orgy scenes since The Boys, then by all means, difficult.

1:37:02Although, unlike Steph, not suitable for work. Definitely not. Definitely do not watch in public. NSF. No. Do you know what? I counted like seven penises. Yeah, yeah. It's a lot. I'm glad someone was counting. And like a lot of simulated, like a lot. It's just, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Peacemaker then, arrives on Skymax and now on Friday, the 22nd of August 2025 decide for yourself what you think of the orgy etc it's almost a wrap this is the point at which I loudly using a copy of Heat magazine go through what we've missed or we couldn't review due to embargoes and this week I mean Hostage is the big show it arrives on Thursday the 21st of August on Netflix and this is the show with Saran Jones and Julie Delpy as the leaders of Great Britain and France respectively who get embroiled in a big hostage situation.

1:37:55It is heavily embargoed. Right. But we will be reviewing it in next week's Pilot Plus stuff. Wow. Which I think James is still away for. I think it's going to be another week of joy. Oh, my God. So there's that. Yeah, I know. That's the biggest show. Then you've got One Night, which started on Saturday on ITV. This has been shown before on Paramount Plus, I think. It's the one with Jodie Whittaker in Australia. Remember that? Yes, we've reviewed it. We did review it. Invasion, season three, comes to Apple TV Plus on Friday the 22nd of August, 2025. That was heavily embargoed as well. So you may not get to review that because, you know, I don't know why that embargo is very late in the day until the day it comes out.

1:38:32The Broken Wood Mysteries, 11th series, arrives on You and Drama on Monday at 8 o 'clock. This is surprising. You remember the 007, Road to a Million, which was the reality competition spin-off of the James Bond films on Prime Video. He's back for a second series the first series was terrible but apparently they've revamped it there's been improvements heavily improved tweaks to the to the format more Cox so to speak what sorry Brian Cox Brian Cox back in the orgy oh my god get your minds out the gutters Brian Cox is back as the kind of the overseer who interacts more but there will be more of him apparently yes indeed there will be more of him as we've mentioned in Heat magazine and then there's a new Miriam Margulis show called discovers New Zealand on BBC Front Friday but I probably wouldn't have mentioned that if I hadn't the fact that I hadn't suddenly caught my eye while I was beefing through a heat magazine ladies and me gentlemen what is our pick of the week mine is Mudtown Steph mine is also Mudtown but I would love to know what people think about the Twisted Tale of a Mandonox I really am interested to see how that's received mine's Mudtown as well but it is the Twisted Tale of a Mandonox it's one of the most extraordinary and intriguing and fascinating shows we've seen in a long time which is why we ended up banging on about it in a slightly incorrect way for about 50 minutes.

1:39:49Yes, sorry, Kay, but I could, I mean, I could do a whole three hours on talking just about that. We won't, don't worry. Oh, I mean, please God, we won't, yeah. We'll be back next week when among the shows that will hopefully, depending on embargoes, we often say this, but we think Atomic with Alfie Allen is around. There were four mentioned King and Conqueror with Nicolai Custod Wildoon. Oh, yes, which you enjoyed very much. No, I haven't said that. Oh, don't get him in trouble. Oh, sorry, no. No, the historical drama, but we don't know how it ends. I watched it, and I'm hosting the thing, but the value judgment has not emerged from my list.

1:40:23Apologia, apologia. Please apologise, yes. Dating Naked UK is back, and we did review the first series, etc. Listen in to find out what the hell we end up reviewing. Thank you very much. Pilot out.

1:40:45you