PLUS 56 Days and The Night Manager spoiler with David Farr & Georgi Banks-Davies

13:03David Farr:it wouldn't put well not exactly put me off in terms of i'd still watch it mainly for this podcast um but i don't particularly you know seek out opportunities to relive that hellish situation so i think i would find it like oh god really like do we have to i suppose it depends on your

13:21Georgi Banks-Davies:kind of your memories and recollections and experiences during covid maybe but because it probably is quite triggering to some people delighted to have those uh years in lockdown to watch the west wing i was at home doing podcasts i'm not sure that it massively impacted my life yeah you absolutely loved it oh my god we were in our individual homes doing podcasts together it was right so it wasn't a huge change for me but james is like a pig in shit but i think that's a more interesting setup and actually i don't think people should maybe shy away from that i think that's that you know and if that's the heart of what the book is you've got a question why bother adapting it if you're not actually going to adapt the sort of fundamental spine of the narrative and yes it's clearly they've been able to transpose it to another city i would argue dublin would have been a more interesting setting for this as well um but uh yeah that's a shame that's made me dislike this more i think i think transposing it to an american city happens all the time doesn't it of course it does but i think if this had been an irish story set in dublin i would have instantly found it more interesting than another kind of slightly generic no no disrespect to American television but it feels more generic for that I quite like it like you know when we've watched like uh and then the Wall Sisters which obviously set in Dublin but it's just it's not not just Ireland but it's it feels different it feels like oh okay this is this is a different setting for this yeah but wasn't like I think like wasn't all her thoughts adapted from a from a uh Irish novel I'm just checking well the writer is Irish that's for sure Andrea Mara she was the writer of all her thought the original novel County Cook Island yeah I'm Absolutely, yeah.

14:49Georgi Banks-Davies:Her books are all set on Ireland, yeah. So, and it worked for that. I think, and funnily enough, I think, wasn't that Boston as well? I think because Boston is very Irish. It is, yeah. It has a lot of big Irish-American community. They feel justified in shifting stuff from Ireland to there, yeah, for big American people. Despite not having any Irish characters in the show. Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

15:09David Farr:If you're an Irish person living in Boston, please get in touch. Let us know what you said.

15:14Georgi Banks-Davies:And you find a body in a bathtub, then obviously let us know about that as well. yeah but i think you hit them hit the nail on the head k when you said yeah there's something yeah it's not there is no chemistry between them and the sex scenes aren't that raunchy anyway it's weird for a whole show the kind of the point of the whole show is their relationship right

15:29David Farr:and it's all about the chemistry and you've got to buy into this couple no it is a flaw it is a

15:34Georgi Banks-Davies:flaw in the show well parmy wondered whether it was partly deliberate because obviously you had that bit where they have sex and then what kind of dates are you going on well no but but i think it's genuinely written into the story this way because he's so cold and aloof and dismissive. And it's just, and I think that was written that way. Either that way or I'm just misreading this complete lack of chemistry. But it felt like a deliberate device.

15:57David Farr:James, I'm only basing this on the first episode to be honest because I haven't watched anymore. But I didn't find him those things. Like I felt like he was, he's obviously red flaggy in different ways. Like, you know, he's quite assertive, you know, when he orders stuff or, you know, he's clearly something not right. But... He's quite, he's, I think he's charming enough to encourage her to go on this date. You know, when they're in the park together and then they arrange this date and he's like, you know, like, I don't think he instantly, when they instantly meet, he gives that red flag nature.

16:25David Farr:Oh, no, of course.

16:26Georgi Banks-Davies:He had big Andrew Tate energy to me. Oh, I think, yeah, he's charming. Surf is charming. But I think the hints are there that he's going to end up being a controlling psychopath. Yeah, of course. I think you see that more as it goes on.

16:36David Farr:Yeah.

16:36Georgi Banks-Davies:I'd be amazed if he doesn't end up being a controlling psychopath, put it that way. so I mean yeah he definitely he definitely is being massively creepy yeah in episode 2 he takes they meet for lunch and you think oh they're gonna go and they're in this lavish restaurant do you see it of course they are there's an enormous staircase and it's like why have you why have you taken us here and again it's all down to the mysterious he must the mysterious wealth is a big issue for sure yeah or Nando's closed you know yeah that's true yeah Mackie D's also very cool 56 days then where does air boydy and when uh i think it's already on uh a prime video now i believe all eight episodes for us to um lap up across eight yes count them full hours of this show time now for this week's postbag

17:29Georgi Banks-Davies:triage it's the post bag and we begin the post bag with addressing uh shall we say a an oversight on our part which i'm just going to blame you two for so they come from hayley now hayley begins this message by saying please read this in your best moira rose impression now hayley that's not going to happen oh i know what she's gonna say yes she wrote she wrote a lovely email in i'm not going to read it out because i cannot do justice to it but it was in the in the style of moira rose the general gist of this i'm sure you can imagine is that katherine o 'hara's passing went unmarked on

18:09David Farr:this particular podcast hey lise i'm just going to jump straight in it did go unmarked and i can only apologize on behalf of james boyd and steph i when i did um the pod last week it'd already been a week so I thought you'd already mentioned it that's why I only mentioned James Van Der Beek so if I had known that you hadn't marked that occasion I absolutely would have talked at length about Catherine O 'Hara's passing because you know I know she's been in so many films and so many you know things before this but as you know anyone who listens to the pod I was obsessed with Schitt's Creek and Moira Rose so yeah that I can only apologize for those guys for not doing

18:46Georgi Banks-Davies:that did we not mention it in that on the podcast we did not no well hayley's hayley's email would be weird if you yeah that would be a strange email it could have been on one or other of it like maybe on plus or no but on either podcast we mentioned that is no and this is i think where i tripped up because we covered it on the empire podcast so in my head i'd already covered it

19:05David Farr:whereas so this is james specifically james's form so what i'm saying is i have a good excuse

19:10Georgi Banks-Davies:you have a good excuse body what is your excuse yeah come on boyd is it just that you heard me talk about it on the Empire podcast and you dream that you were in the podcast. Yeah, probably. It's almost certainly, yeah, I heard them talk about it on Empire and I forgot. Oh, God, that's terrible, yeah. Because not only was she in Shits Creek, but she was in, yeah, she was in the studio,

19:28David Farr:brilliant, late role in the studio. Oh, my gosh, she was brilliant in the studio.

19:32Georgi Banks-Davies:Yeah, fabulous in The Last of Us, of course, James will testify to, and she has been in quite a few of my favourite films of all time.

19:38David Farr:Oh, there's no greater accolade and tribute than that, frankly.

19:42Georgi Banks-Davies:I mean, there is, but yeah, thanks. now that is absolutely we must apologise for that that's terrible yes that is awesome Hayley also says in this particular email that I think she finds herself quoting Moira Rose an awful lot in her daily life and I was curious I don't know that Kay strikes me as someone who doesn't quote things that much perhaps I'm wrong perhaps I'm wrong but I'm curious do you guys find yourselves what are your go to quote things from TV stuff this is what Hayley wants to know

20:09David Farr:I don't you're right James I don't often but with Moira do you know what I'll I don't quote this necessarily. Well, occasionally, maybe to my friend. But I often rewatch the moment when she is teaching David to cook and they have the whole conversation about folding it in with the ex. Have you ever seen it? If not, I'm going to send it to you guys. Check it out. Anyone who likes Schitt's Creek. I mean, anyone who likes Schitt's Creek will know the moment. And she's basically just going, fold it in. And he's like, I don't understand what you mean. And because she doesn't understand, she just keeps repeating it and getting more and more agitated that he's not listening to her.

20:42David Farr:And it's hilarious. um also the moment where she is um doing the advert for the wine company you know her link she can never say the name and she just goes through different iterations of it um increasingly uh silly and yeah i love that bit but i don't necessarily go around quoting that no

21:02Georgi Banks-Davies:buddy are you a quoter no i'm not really partly because of my um terrible memory so i don't remember quotes yeah um maybe a few sitcoms down the years but no no no i i don't i'm not a quote

21:15David Farr:to know james you give big quota energy yeah it's true like we so in the empire office we

21:20Georgi Banks-Davies:communicate almost exclusively in film and tv quotes yeah me and chris you in particular um it's it's i pity you just have to pity the rest of the desk i mean yeah yeah it's all lord of the rings and like 80s arnold movies and i mean all that stuff star wars i mean you name it but from a tv point of view like i i used to quote relentlessly from blackadder and red dwarf uh when i was a teenager such a nerd when you were teenager oh god yeah all the time

21:49David Farr:all the time no offense you weren't like oliver going to those restaurants and whining and dining

21:53Georgi Banks-Davies:the ladies were you i definitely didn't have an apartment like his it's absolutely true um but yes that nowadays i mean yes yes the west wing does crop up every now and then but honestly the most common one and i would say this in the empire office generally is uh friends we quote friends all the time but everyone quotes friends all the time like that's not like the amount of times we've got ever while doing something um that that for me is is the ultimate quote which you must like quote i suppose does the office lend itself to quoting yeah there's quotes in the office yeah there's loads of classic quotes in the office yeah um yeah i mean there are none of them come to my mind.

22:28Georgi Banks-Davies:None of them are springing to your mind, no.

22:30David Farr:I'm just still reeling from the fact he was quoting Blackadder as a teenager. Tell me, do a quote from Blackadder now.

22:37Georgi Banks-Davies:From Blackadder? What would you have said back then?

22:40David Farr:And were you saying it to the ladies or were you just saying it to your name?

22:43Georgi Banks-Davies:It would have been saying it to my friends at school, I would imagine. Always Blackadder, he was the only one that I quoted. I didn't quote anyone else. Was there a key one? No, anything, you know, more cunning than a fox who's just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford University. or it's like when he's like Baldrick must our friendship end like this is it me cutting you into ribbons and telling the prince you walked over an extremely sharp cattle grid wearing a very heavy hat I've misquoted that horribly because I don't remember it because I've not seen Blackadder in decades but yeah things like that

23:17David Farr:it's given us a sample I appreciate it

23:19Georgi Banks-Davies:yeah I do and I've said this before I do think the cornerstone of all of my humour is a combination of Edmund Blackadder Arnold Rimmer and Basil Fawlty which probably explains a grand deal. Oh, actually, do you know what?

23:32David Farr:Well done, James. You just reminded me. I quite from 40 Towers to my friends.

23:36Georgi Banks-Davies:But not the racist bits.

23:38David Farr:No, specifically the racist bits. Because we watched it, well, I particularly as a kid, watched it loads, but I also had the audio cassettes. And so I know it, yes. And I know it verbatim. So quite often with my primary school friends who I've known since I was five, when we get together quotes will come up so that's the one Balti Towers is my go-to that I quote from uh there was a bit there was a bit where because

24:05Georgi Banks-Davies:I can't speak Spanish it's very important that you know that I cannot speak Spanish crucially though neither could Andrew Sachs I'm pretty certain as Manuel but I remember this bit where and I genuinely I still remember it he goes eh como se dite en iglesias pueras solamente pueras números cuando estemos adelante and he's like I'm sure that is just gibberish but he says that at one point and he's like yes the pate and the lamb casserole

24:25David Farr:oh yeah the patty in the lamb the patty lamb the patty lamb the patty lamb the patty lamb yes there you go see you can quote it yeah yeah yeah love it oh so thanks i hate your question hayley thank

24:36Georgi Banks-Davies:you hayley we're so sorry we're so sorry yeah let us move on uh what else have we got um this is a question so i'm going back to the beginning of january i'm clearing the backlog a little bit i'm working i'm working from the back forward so getting into the corners of the sack that's right this is from Chris and Chris says my question is on post-show blues when one of your favorite tv shows finishes what impact does it have on your viewing habits immediately following its conclusion having just finished the emotional blockbuster ride that was the final season of stranger things loved it I looked at my sofa list yes a convert uh and felt nothing could match the decade-long experience of watching stranger things case in point I was midway through my first watch of the Wire season three at the time of writing and returning to it felt frankly like homework harsh yes it's objectively excellent but I don't have the connection with the characters or story that I did with Stranger Things does any of the pod share this do you watch a palette cleanser tv show before returning to finding your next favorite or do you watch from the beginning again

25:39David Farr:oh no I'm not going back to the beginning straight away I do a palette cleanser I'll usually choose something that is um an entertainment show so i'll go to my my favorites you know portrait arts of the year uh portrait throwdown they're wonderful craft based cleansers for me um and then i'll go into my next drama or something so but i won't instantly re-watch um the only thing in terms of like that feeling of you know feeling bereft after something's finished and i'm going to use an example that the majority of our listeners are going to hate because they'll be like oh that's real thing but i felt like that recently you know what they're gonna say um yeah they're just gonna be grumpy about it but you know listen if i can do this at 7 a.m for you guys you can just listen to this which is that after the most recent um you know celebrity and regular traitors because i got so into it and i think the conversation everyone was talking about it in my circles etc and with boy day that after that finish i did have that feeling of like oh you know because it's just it takes over your life so that's the most recent example i've got of that feeling oh it happens a lot yeah but i know i think

26:51Georgi Banks-Davies:i'm fine to move on to the next like so whenever so horses finishes there's a massive that's such reflection on its um addictive quality because you completely i'm completely bereft anyway as each series finishes and you want them to go back to the hate the glorious days when i had two seasons in one calendar year remember that back in yes that was the amazing first year of slow

27:11David Farr:horses we all feel about that and what's funny is that every time we watch a series we always talk about that james is the one particularly who brings it up and goes and then get tells them to pull their finger out and release them soon yes yes exactly that mention it myself now

27:23Georgi Banks-Davies:um and um it's and i would i would watch anything yeah to to kind of deal with the deal with the um fallout from missing that show yeah i haven't watched so many series anyway there's no point in taking time out for a different palette cleanser yeah you can't dress fully in

27:40David Farr:black and you know black armband etc because you just got to get into the next thing for work

27:45Georgi Banks-Davies:exactly exactly okay well that i mean that is a very legitimate point because we do have to watch a certain amount of stuff each week you really can't take much of it i can't i have a right i have finished my rewatch of game of thrones i now impose a two-week period of television morning it's like no because i can't watch five shows a week for this podcast yeah um but uh it's certainly it like it can be it can be a struggle when you finish something that's particularly engrossing but also it depends where you're watching it like sometimes i find that you know there have been times when you know i've had a breakup or something and so i've just absolutely delved into a particular show and completely binge watch it there was one where i watched i hadn't what i hadn't finished homeland like the i think i can't remember it was the final season the first two seasons of homeland and i sat and i watched it pretty much through a night like literally i just didn't stop i started in the evening and i just carried

28:34David Farr:on watching pretty much until morning james that's intense i know it's quite an intense show to do it

28:38Georgi Banks-Davies:with as well and i just kind of really and i and i was just mortified when that ended because i felt like i'd lived in that world for a while i wasn't prepared to come back to you know this one um so that's that's a struggle but you do you miss you miss the characters you have these little parasocial bonds with them uh and it is different and i think sometimes sometimes you can try and find something similar but i find that rarely works i do think like maybe going in a different direction is often the way to go something that feels you know maybe not a palate cleanser but something that feels you know thematically different it's interesting you mentioned the wire because like the wire is one of my one of my go-to shows because i love the characters in the wire i think maybe from because it it pivot pivots each season uh you know to a different sort of demographic different area and some new characters especially the pivot from seasons one to two that can feel quite jarring because it can feel like you've lost the characters that you love so maybe that is difficult I actually never never connected with the Stranger Things characters that way I like the show but I never connected with the characters on that level I have done on many other shows you monster I don't know why yeah because I'm a monster yes I connected with the Demogorgon Boydie that was the point for me yeah by the way we were getting a different view from Kay's microphone setting

29:47David Farr:oh well done Boydie yeah

29:49Georgi Banks-Davies:we've seen vehicles driving by Where the hell are you? What's going on?

29:53David Farr:Finally, you've noticed. I thought you'd mention it when we first came on the record. I'm in Her Majesty, my mother's house. Yeah, that's where I am. So I'm in a very, this is my living room.

30:05Georgi Banks-Davies:I thought you were about to say HM Prison, Her Majesty's Pleasure. I mean, sometimes it feels like that. Some of your opinions on this podcast are certainly criminal. So that makes absolute sense.

30:16David Farr:James.

30:19Georgi Banks-Davies:Hello, Mrs. R.

30:21David Farr:Mrs. Rib, yeah. She's still in bed like a normal person. By the way, just as an FYI, under this jumper, I have still got my Chim Jams on.

30:28Georgi Banks-Davies:I didn't know where you were going with that. I was actually going to comment, so you're wearing a green polka dotty jumper, which brought to mind the blue cloudy jumper that we talked about recently.

30:39David Farr:Oh my gosh, yeah, Dreaming Whilst Black. I love that jumper. Did we ever find out? I think it's probably like a designer, isn't it? Yeah, I would like that jumper, but no one has sent me one. I would like you guys to get it for me, thanks.

30:51Georgi Banks-Davies:All right, we have a message here from Frank. And Frank says, I love the TV show industry and I'm very excited to start season four. However, my girlfriend has never seen the show. And she saw a trailer the other day for the new series. And when I said I was very excited, she said she wanted to get on the industry train. Like the good man that I am, I offered a full rewatch to catch her up. But she said, nah, I'll just jump in at series four.

31:14David Farr:Okay, dump her. No, I'm joking.

31:18Georgi Banks-Davies:Sickened by this, but that's not the point. and he says she's trying to be helpful. My question is, and this is, I think, directed mainly at you, Boydie, is this a good jumping on point for new viewers with the whole bye-bye peer point end of series three? Or is this a surefire way to make us both hate the show? I figure this is just a question aimed at Boyd, but great to see the inside of the post bag nonetheless. Oh, I think you have to start at the beginning, yeah. I think just because... Gets to know the characters. Yeah, the peer point element has ended, yeah. Spoiler alert. but it's really all about the characters and their interactions and in fact funnily enough I will bang on about this show again on the normal, I was planning it on the normal podcast normal, on the regular podcast

32:06David Farr:the main podcast

32:08Georgi Banks-Davies:whatever you want to call it because last night's episode which I think was episode 6 is absolutely extraordinary even by industry standards and I don't mean the TV industry I mean, the industry show. Industry. We got it. Yeah. I mean, if you want sex scenes, industry is your place to go to. Yes, indeed. And not in about 56 days. If you want an erotic thriller. Yeah, exactly. Industry manages to incorporate erotic thriller into its general amazing vibe anyway. Yeah, this season's been incredible. But I would absolutely, you have to go back to the beginning. Yeah. Sorry. But it would be brilliantly fun, brilliantly entertaining to do so.

32:47Georgi Banks-Davies:There you go, Frank. a rewatch it is a message here from Pippa and Pippa's really just saying thank you. Pippa wanted to thank us and she says, thank you for saving me from jet lag on a recent work trip to the US, which involved two 10 hour flights within four days. Oh, did she watch The Pit? Watched The Pit, yes. Pippa, I'm so jealous. Watched all 15 episodes across the two flights, was so gripping. And even though I'm squeamish, I managed to get through the medical stuff, which isn't too in your face. I mean, it's quite in your face. but she says she also remembered us saying that at some point during the series the shit hits the fan and she couldn't have predicted the turn it took i now love all the cast and if i ever end up in a and e i only want to be treated by dr robbie if at death's door or samira if i need a chat

33:33David Farr:i'm laughing not knowing who she's talking about but i'm just so jealous pippa i can't bear it now that's you james uh boydy all in that pit group and i'm furious yes we are in the pit without you Pit stop.

33:47Georgi Banks-Davies:Yeah. One of the benefits, one of the many benefits of now receiving the postbag via email is it's very easy to get to. The triage system, I think, works much better now that it's all in one place. The only downside is we have had a number of people write incredible epistolary kind of missives that are just 18 paragraphs long. And I look at it, I'm like, there is no way I can read this out. James, hello.

34:11David Farr:Oh, my gosh. I like how you're telling me as if I haven't done it. that's part of your skill as the postmaster is reading and that's what i was doing do you think all the messages i was reading out were short no i went through either pre-read diligently or just had the skill of reading and condensing as i went along well i have been schooled

34:30Georgi Banks-Davies:thoroughly here so all right let's see let's see how i do uh so this is a message from gujon I apologize if I'm mispronouncing your name, but Gudjon starts this message with Icelandic, which I will not even attempt to read out lest I massacre it. But they say, I wanted to flag a new show from my native Iceland that I urged the International Department of Pilot, that's UK, to monitor. while England has the glossy and impeccably cast the night manager on New Year's Day we had the on the very same day the first episode of the inventive limited series the Danish woman from Icelandic auteur Benedikt Erlingsson who did woman at war of horses and men while I expect the night manager which has not started airing in Iceland and I eagerly await is probably moving with the confidence of a show that knows exactly where it's going all the time the Danish woman is very much not it's unpredictable in the way that feels genuinely refreshing the kind of show where after each episode, you're not theorising what will happen, so much as quietly accepting that you have absolutely no idea what could happen.

35:34Georgi Banks-Davies:It zigzags tonally, narratively, and sometimes emotionally, and seems actively uninterested in reassuring the viewer, which honestly feels quite New Year appropriate. Yes, this was a message from January.

35:44David Farr:So where can we watch this then?

35:47Georgi Banks-Davies:Oh, well, you know, naturally I would turn to Boyd. Boyd, do you know if the Danish woman is airing here in the UK? I haven't heard the news. Crank up the Google. Yeah No I haven't heard Anything about it To be honest

35:59David Farr:Oh I want to watch that Yeah

36:01Georgi Banks-Davies:Series had its world premiere At Seriesmania in Lille Where Did you go to that Kay Last year Seriesmania

36:07David Farr:No I went to Italy We were invited I remember

36:09Georgi Banks-Davies:Oh yeah that's right What Oh I was invited Okay next time

36:12David Farr:Please just forward on those invites I'm happy to go As a raving reporter again

36:16Georgi Banks-Davies:Oh okay It was subsequently presented At the Transylvania International Film Festival The series is scheduled To be broadcast On RUV in Iceland Germany Denmark Finland and Sweden and Australia but no news of a British but it's got very good reviews yeah Jubilant a marvel of Nordic black comedy yeah so it doesn't very good but no

36:40David Farr:in fact our listener is just teasing us with this information because we can't watch it no

36:44Georgi Banks-Davies:but hopefully at some point soon but also maybe

36:47David Farr:I mean I'm being selfish I was just thinking you know but actually our international listeners then you can tune in and let us know what you think

36:53Georgi Banks-Davies:or maybe someone's taken a flight to Iceland and you can watch it on the plane I'm happy to go happy to go okay we'll bite that particular bullet alright we've got time for one more and this comes from Rob and Rob says having just listened to James answer the listener question about where to start with Star Trek I cannot help but feel sorry for poor Bahar James' insanely complicated potpourri approach of a bit of this and a bit of that left me a dyed in the wool Star Trek fan reeling in confusion who's this

37:21David Farr:can you repeat the name

37:22Georgi Banks-Davies:this is Rob

37:22David Farr:i take my hat off popery approach is my new thing i'm now co-opting i'm taking it as my own i'll i'll credit you occasionally if i remember but i love that he goes on so i thought i'd chip in with

37:36Georgi Banks-Davies:my two pieces of gold press latin good reference as bahar said she's a doctor who fan so low production values probably won't be an issue she should just start with the original series it's adventure of the week with no continuity to worry about and it's across three seasons you get a good spread of the types of story the franchise can excel at from there i do the first six movies and then go straight into deep space nine as that feels totally much much more like the original series than any of the other shows do there are also several crossovers with the older shows and then feel free to go targ wild across the franchise bs i would also like to tentatively join steph and hop to the defense of enterprise jump is probably too strong a word uh while the first two seasons were pretty dull and clearly a creative team running on fumes season three saw a fire lit in the show's belly with the zindi arc and season four's leaning into its prequel nature really made the show interesting the finale is an abomination on that at least we agree um i cannot endorse this buffoonery i'm so sorry

38:37David Farr:he's very he's very clear and sensible and reasonable terrible advice to go back to the

38:42Georgi Banks-Davies:beginning yeah i do endorse that message yeah i know but you must agree with me on this one point that the clear error that Rob has made here is while he said start with the original series, I don't agree, but fine. You know, you do you. But to say I would then watch the first six movies is deranged because one of those in particular, Star Trek V, is one of the worst films ever. Like you cannot, that would put someone on Star Trek V. I would also argue the first movie, the motion picture is incredibly boring and it's probably worth avoiding as well. So you absolutely would go two, three, four, six.

39:15Georgi Banks-Davies:What are you talking about? I have a weird fondness for the first film. because I remember sitting in the cinema, very excitedly, when it actually came out. Which was what, 1979? Yeah. I want to guess. 1979. Boy, that wasn't even born. So sweet. Oh, God. I would have been 12 years old. And I thought there's a famously long shot of the Enterprise, which, you know, cranked up and re-renewed. What's the word? Renovated. And there's a whole sequence, which literally goes on for about 10 minutes. It does, yeah. It's not shit porn. It's encircling around the enterprise. And I loved it. I thought that was amazing.

39:54Georgi Banks-Davies:But it is incredible. If you stand back from it now, it is incredibly boring and self-indulgent. Yeah. To be fair, some people do have an affection for the motion picture. I have affection for it. Like the original. I have none. It's all about rather calm for me. Of course. So, yeah. So, maybe you want to go back to the beginning or maybe you just want to follow my excellent potpourri approach, which I highly endorse. Absolutely not.

40:13David Farr:Listen to Rob. He created that excellent expression. We should all do what Rob says.

40:17Georgi Banks-Davies:fair enough thank you rob well that's it for the postbag uh you can send all of your missives into us at pilot tv at empire magazine.com but hot news flash the email address is changing soon although okay i should be clear this email address will continue to work but i've i've got a new domain name for the pilot tv postbag i'm not going to share it because i'm making it more confusing again because i like to mix things up what can i tell you this is the guy who didn't want us to

40:43David Farr:have an email address and i've created another one but they will go through to the same mailbox

40:48Georgi Banks-Davies:so you don't need to remember the new one if you don't need to but yes i will i will share that with you next week uh time now for two things to happen first and foremost we are going to move on to the night manager but before we do that kay frankly wants to go and have her breakfast and she doesn't want to listen to me and boyd talk about the night manager well first of all first

41:06David Farr:of all because i haven't um like i'm behind so i don't want to get it have it spoiled for me and also I took the clue from the title the night night manager so I'm going to go back in my gym jams and go back to bed. Thank you. Fair enough. Well thank you for joining us Kay.

41:21Georgi Banks-Davies:Enjoy your breakfast.

41:22David Farr:Thanks for having me. Yeah. See you in a few weeks.

41:24Georgi Banks-Davies:Okay finally so we are going to bring you our long delayed spoiler interview with the night manager showrunner David Farr and director Georgie Banks-Davis. We had planned to do a separate spoiler special for this but between Boydie's travels and my schedule we've not been able to find the time so we're bringing it to you as part of this plus episode instead but before we get into that interview which we're going to end the show with let's talk about this show a little bit so spoiler warnings for the night manager we had a question and i want to start with a listener question from tom and tom said what are your thoughts on the bbc spoiling the huge reveal in season two of the night manager my wife and i waited for the finale to drop to binge the whole season this weekend but lo and behold the bee plastered hugh lorry all over the night manager page on iPlayer, and he even provides a picture, and yes, they did.

42:13Georgi Banks-Davies:I realised he was still alive instantly, even when they showed the identification of his dead body right at the start of episode one. But still, clearly furious about this. He then goes on to say, I'm used to Boyd spoiling shows, but I would have hoped the BBC would have done better. Yeah. Oh, it was absolutely a decision, yeah. I mean, they put out a trailer, in fact, for the following episode quite quickly after episode, was it three, I think, came out in which he appears at the end. And I was amazed by the speed with which they decided to spoil that, especially considering they kind of encourage everyone to watch it on iPlay if you want, right?

42:49Georgi Banks-Davies:And then, but there was no time to recover from this huge twist and they made the trailer for the next episode within days, showing him throughout the trailer. It was weird, yeah, but I guess in this day and age, you know we've said it before that well i've said it before as a as a spoiler expert um that yeah maybe you have to avoid you have to avoid social media and everything and trailers and watch maybe you have to avoid watching tv at all if you haven't yet caught up with a crucial episode of your of a show going out live week by week but i know that it was it was unusually swift it was it was bizarre i'd say yeah it happened very quickly i mean luckily for me uh but you and my mum both ruined that for me so uh not because not because you said what it was but you both did the same thing when oh you won't believe what happened at the end of episode three and of course as soon as someone says that you immediately guess it as i've said before i hate knowing there is a twist because if i know there's a twist i will guess the twist you only don't guess it if you're not looking for it yeah so i was like well what could it be it's obviously going to be that hugh lorry is alive but i thought what they did was quite clever whereby when you see the body of Hugh Laurie in the first episode when you see the thing I couldn't because they give him lots of sort of facial hair I couldn't tell if it was actually Hugh Laurie or whether it was a dummy or another actor and I thought that was clever because if you'd been absolutely certain it was Hugh Laurie on the slab you wouldn't have believed that he was in it just do that you just wouldn't have done yeah yeah that was clever yeah you're right yeah they did a good job making it ambiguous but I still didn't guess I mean I'm that stupid maybe it's just me but I yeah I was bowled over by the actual arrival of him at the end of episodes i thought it was quite audacious too because because basically that scene showing him on the slab was like you in a normal draw in a normal situation that would be the the the uh justifying shot to show he is actually dead don't worry everyone he's he's actually dead and then for them to then have the twist after that was quite bold i thought i mean it was it was a smart move to to bring i mean obviously it's a smart move to bring him back because if you can get hugh laurie for your show you have hugh laurie in your show and that is just a rule um but the dynamic between those two was the spine of what made the original miniseries so good there was another clue by the way actually which i which i wondered about which is hugh lorries credited as except producer in the credits um of the very of right from the start of the second series i thought that was a bit weird but that could have been an honor if it like could have been a contractual thing or i assume it was but i still saw it i I thought, that's weird that he's not in series two.

45:25Georgi Banks-Davies:He's dead and he's still exec producer. I did notice it and thought that was weird, but I still didn't put two and two together. As you say, because of that, because of the honorific tradition. I like that reveal. I thought from the moment Roper was back in it, the whole show kicked into high gear, which I really, really enjoyed. This has been quite a divisive season, this second one. I think people haven't liked it as much, but I think a lot of that has come down to the ending, partly the openness of the ending and partly what happens at the ending. How did you feel about the end of this season?

45:52Georgi Banks-Davies:because obviously it ends in pure kind of Empire Strikes Back slash Infinity War fashion with the villain in the Ascendant. Yeah, I think that's fine because we know there's going to be another season, right? We do. I think if you didn't know that, then it would be frustrating and you'd be like, you know, we're going to have to... I mean, this is an example of a show that we were talking about earlier about shows that finish and we were bereft, or at least I was quite bereft by the end of it. And I think that reflects well on how exciting and dramatic the finale was. I think the whole series, as you say, I think it was an interesting structure to it because people, one of the big complaints about the early part of the series was that the new kind of, in quotes, villain, the new Hugh Laurie character, really his replacement was this young guy, Teddy, who turned out to be his son, obviously.

46:38Georgi Banks-Davies:and Teddy was never Teddy was literally quite a weak you know figure I mean deliberately on the part of the writers of the writer I think and a very different kind of character to be the main villain of the piece and as it turned out of course there's this weird emotional almost love story between him and what's his name well I mean pick one he's got let's go with Jonathan Pine even though that's the one he uses the least exactly so that relationship ended up being quite really interesting I thought quite daring that they kind of almost that they fell in love or certainly it was like and Tommy Anderson didn't you know didn't discourage him the the the guy the young guy Teddy in his yearning or whatever in his yearnings I thought that was dealt with very interesting very well but he was definitely not like Hugh Laurie and then to bring him in halfway through I thought was a master show because then from then on it really hit its stride and all those scenes between the two of them in that restaurant you know very heat like de niro pacino kind of coming together sequences which i mentioned in i talked to them about that in the interview um which they acknowledge was an influence um did you talk about the you know they kind of semi love triangle so let me just sort of like the relationship between pine and teddy because i thought that was so well handled yeah and that it's never explicit it's never articulated it's just something that's there and like we talked about them not having chemistry in 56 days i mean those two really did have chemistry on the screen like there was a real and by the end of it you're not entirely sure what existed between them like you're fairly certain that that teddy had a definite attraction to pine but then pine obviously has an affection for him but the you know the nature the shape of it is actually quite unclear which i thought was which i thought was smart yeah we did talk about that and they're very proud i think of um of the way they dealt with that yeah that it was i think that they were completely clear that um teddy was in love with pine but the extent to which there is any feelings the other way they didn't they kind of were left deliberately ambiguous i think um but to have that emotional connection they completely it completely changed what you thought was going to happen when the series started to how it ended up and i thought that was really clever i also think that it really built a head of steam in terms of in the finale not only did you have the empire strikes back as you say the bad guys in the ascendant which i thought was that the the way they did that reverse ferrets you know the kind of you thought all the way through the good guys were gonna win and they had a brilliant plan you know it's a brilliant cunning plan and it couldn't possibly go wrong and then when it did go wrong it was really kind of thrilling and exciting but i think what made the final episode for me actually was olivia coleman coming back because her scenes in the finale with, you know, the various guys, her kind of getting involved again.

49:34Georgi Banks-Davies:And her sequences were absolutely brilliant. I thought she's, and I think it's a real, so I think the finale itself was a fabulous episode, but everything coming together and to give her two amazing sequences where she kind of like is one up on the blokes that she has to deal with, these fucking idiot twats that she gets one up on. And then does she in the end, obviously, and there's another rug pull when it turns out actually things are going horribly wrong. But I had questions there. I was like, why would you get hold of Indira Varma and sit her down, lay all your cards out on the table before the final hand has been dealt?

50:08Georgi Banks-Davies:I know. I was like, what are you doing? Wait until you've won before crowing. Don't leave it to chance. It's a major crowing, yeah. You're right, of course, yeah. No, totally. But it made sense dramatically. I thought the scene... It did, yeah. It worked dramatically. And Indira Varma's always fabulous. I was quite shocked to see old Angela Burr, you know, dead at the end. Yeah, absolutely. A massive, massive moment. Which is obviously a very pointed way of saying that you don't have Olivia Colman signed up for season three. Well, I think, absolutely, yeah. I think it would have been stretching it, maybe.

50:40Georgi Banks-Davies:But I think it was a really powerful sequence as well. It was, yeah. I think it made sense creatively as well as logistically. Like, how do we get Olivia Colman, global superstar, to be in our third series? Although, you know, I mean, the whole show is built around Tom Hiddleston, Global Superstars, so they've done a pretty good job so far. But I think, I just, I was so, I enjoyed her appearance so much in that finale, all her moments. And it was so, it just reminds you that, because people often say, oh, why is Olivia Colman getting all the work? You know, why is so-and-so actor? Why right now, you know, they're saying it about - Because she's amazing.

51:15Georgi Banks-Davies:Yeah, because she's amazing. Exactly. You know, they're saying it about Paul Meskel, you know, and that was it. there's like always a handful of people who seem to suddenly be in everything right um well it's usually because they're brilliant and in her case particularly you cannot imagine anyone doing those scenes as well as she does she's she just you know like a two minute scene with you know in that taxi with that guy what's his name the guy from um sex education um was brilliant at worth the price of admission alone so it just underlines star power that she's fucking amazing and and did really well in that Denali.

51:48Georgi Banks-Davies:Yeah, yeah. I'm obsessed with Olivia Colman at the moment because I'm watching Broadchurch, obviously, and she's just unbelievably good in that. She's just the best, yeah. Yeah, she's very good indeed. I think the ending for me, because you feel like you know where the dominoes are falling and you think, oh, right, and Pine's going to win it. And then it's that last minute switcheroo where you're just like, oh, no, Roper is always three steps ahead. He may not have been in the first season, but this time he is on it. And I thought that was smart. But I also think the ending hits quite powerfully because it's not like he won and then he got away it's that he won and he's been essentially to quote Catherine O 'Hara folded into the British establishment because he's you know he's essentially been whitelisted like he's living out in the open in a big fancy mansion in the country because he's seen as a necessary evil and a useful kind of villain for the government's sort of foreign policy and for their you know regime change around the world and I thought that that's what makes it particularly bitter he pretended from on high by the prince of darkness much like kaiser soze yeah the prince does in this in this situation being made dear of armor really yeah she's yes yeah yeah the princess of darkness um yeah she again she phenomenal as well always always brilliant in everything she does but yeah she was really effective really really clever um we have to mention the dogs by the way which i did begin i began my chat with the with the with the creators and with the dogs because that's such an audacious thing.

53:14Georgi Banks-Davies:You can kill as many humans as you want. If you're going to kill dogs in the middle of a show... You're done. You're done. But it's really hit home. I mean, it just shows you how powerful that is, our dog love, because that's horrendous, that was at the moment, but really, really shocking, genuinely shocking to go through with that, yeah. But it's also the evolution of that character, isn't it? Because in the first season, he starts out as, I would say, archly amoral, but you don't see him do anything too villainous until he has frisky, beat-up Jed. You're like, okay, you're not just amoral, you're just a very, very bad guy.

53:48Georgi Banks-Davies:And then he becomes more and more villainous in the first season, whereas in this season, he's basically in arch-villain territory. He's just awful. So I think you need to escalate slightly, and I think we feel that at the end, especially it makes the ending a lot more punchy. Oh, definitely, yeah. I mean, I think in the end, as you say, it was controversial. People didn't like it. People thought it was a bit disappointing. but I think in the end, I think it actually lived up to the first series. They all came together brilliantly, I think. I can't wait. We're not going to have to wait another 10 years for the series three.

54:18Georgi Banks-Davies:Not 10 years, but equally, it's not coming anytime soon because they still need to, I think, finish writing it and making it, et cetera, so it's going to be a while. Oh, see, that is quite frustrating. I know, I know. It's a good season. I don't think it's a patch on the first season, I don't, but I think that's, you know, I think that's hard because the first season, I mean, it's a very self-contained, very tightly written Le Carré mystery. so yes you know that's to be expected um but actually i think you know even though it isn't as good as the first season i thought it was a worthy a worthy successor i'm glad they did it no i'm glad definitely yeah it's been a huge hit massive figures yeah i play such a yeah so we will see the third series it's just a case of when but look enough of us talking about this let's hear from the creators themselves this is showrunner david farr and director georgie banks davis talking to boydy about the night manager season two enjoy welcome to the pilot tv podcast georgie banks davis director and executive producer of the night manager season two and uh director and executive producer and writer and executive producer sorry david fart hi david hello how's it going um congratulations on a spectacular finale to season two of the night manager how was it for you how and first of all here's the most important question i have for you did you really have to kill the dogs uh yeah that was that was discussed a lot uh it was discussed

55:36David Farr:a lot beyond every every everybody who is killed that was discussed the most the dark i i held a

55:43Georgi Banks-Davies:very firm line on it which was that in order to slightly in a dreadful way presage or preempt what happens in episode six to teddy it was necessary for the audience for the viewer sorry to be reminded of what roper does when you betray him even if you don't really betray him because how can a dog possibly betray him but but in roper's head they have and that it's not entirely in his control you know there's something that is something has clicked in roper a little bit in the in the gap between season one and season two his experience in the syrian hell hole something's gone a little little like deranged underneath this very elegant surface so for me it was a really important thing and it if and also of course there is this discussion all the way through about roper treating teddy like a dog i think pine says that at one point you know so there is a there's a conscious comparison going on so for it was purely for that reason it wasn't about anything more than that it was a very important thing for me to say no just remember who this chap is right now in episode five because it may yet come back to haunt in an even more dramatic way yeah it's the that's

56:52David Farr:it's the premonition he says to sandy in like episode four you can trust a hound i'm going to bring them back to you can trust a hound and it's ultimately that it's saying however innocent you are if you double cross this man he will take you out and he will take you down so it's very much like the yeah the premonition of what's to come in the sixth episode regardless of how innocent you are because of course it's completely out of the dog's hands they're like they're dogs they're

57:18Georgi Banks-Davies:innocent yeah i always i remember in the there was always a thing in this in the second world war it was the nazis in czech czech so that year where if someone had done something bad it would be the hot it wouldn't be just them and their family it would be the village that was raised to the ground there's a village called lidit say which czech people will know about it's it always haunted me this concept that you just need to be related in any way you know just just have the microphone on your collar that's enough even if you had no idea that it was there even if you're a dog it doesn't matter yeah i just hope you're ready from the fallout of british people's love of dogs and uh did you do as many human beings as you want but you've done the boldest thing which

57:56David Farr:is that's a human i would talk about that a lot you know he's he feels the same and he loves it's a massive dog lover and he really did not want to do it and he was like i can't this is he will say it's like this is the nail nail in the coffin of my career i don't want to do it and i'm like i know you don't want to do it but it is the character it is it's and i am completely understand

58:17Georgi Banks-Davies:But also Roper doesn't want to do it, which is important to me. There's no joy in it for him. There is no joy in it. It's a horrendous thing. And I think he's brilliant in the scene after. I don't know if you remember the scene after. He's so brilliant. This sense of his guilt and his self-loathing. Georgie does it so, so well. It's from behind. He wants to be alone. He says he wants to be alone. Let me be alone. It's horrendous. yeah yeah um just going back to the bigger picture of the of the of the whole um season to itself and the big gap from from season one obviously um first of all the the hugh lorry return which was a massive coup and i mean i like to think of myself as being in touch with all the kind of twists and turns of tv drama these days but i was absolutely stunned and shocked when he when he arrived back.

59:07Georgi Banks-Davies:I think you see his body on the slab, don't you? And it is him. It is him because the thing that I really enjoyed about it is that everyone was thinking about very sci-fi. Did he replace his body? Was it a waxwork? And of course, it's the most simple human thing. A woman lies to a man, right? Angela lies to Pine. That's all it is. It's so simple. It's right in front of everyone's eyes. So that was satisfying. I must say, I was expecting people like you either to know before, but we see, I mean, great credit to everyone on the production. I don't know how Georgie pulled this off. We just seem to have shot with Hugh for weeks and weeks and weeks and no one found out, which is absolutely amazing.

59:48Georgi Banks-Davies:It was great. I did wonder because obviously he's the exec producer as well. So in the credits, you see his name, exec producer Hugh, and you're thinking, oh, why is he still involved? You know, he's dead. But, you know, I still didn't think you'd actually go for that massive poo. I think we got away with that because I think, for example, Susanna, who directed season one, is like, because that happens, doesn't it, with shows? You kind of get a carry on. So I think we cleverly got away with that one. Yeah, absolutely. It's been quite fun holding that one back, I have to say.

1:00:17David Farr:But it's also great that now everyone knows because, like, trying to keep it a secret or when your friends and family are like, did you meet Hugh Laurie? Is he a part? And you have to go, like, well, yeah, he's a producer. And, yeah, we shot this scene where he's dead. and just trying to avoid lying, like just telling the truth as much as you can tell it. And it's excruciating.

1:00:37Georgi Banks-Davies:Oh, I lie, George. I got really good at it. I cannot lie. That's why you're a great espionage writer. I can lie. I'm lying right now. No, I can lie. I can lie. But I only told three people, I think, the whole world. Yeah, pretty much. That's impressive. That's impressive. For four years. Was it? Yeah, right. Was it? Was it? That long gap between season one and series two, was it always your plan to bring that character back, to bring Roper back? Or would you happily have carried on with the other? No, the reason there was a big gap was I didn't have, I mean, obviously it was a book, Le Carre book, very quick here, but Le Carre book, no one even talked about the notion of doing a second one at that time.

1:01:23Georgi Banks-Davies:It was because you didn't do that. It was a book. No one, you know, you don't go beyond Le Carre. Suddenly, huge hit, wins lots of awards. And Le Carre himself says, I think you should do another one. This is, it's so great. You haven't finished, you know. So we go, okay, think about it. But by that point, I was already making a TV show called Hannah. And I just, I was a bit stressed, actually. I get, when I get stressed, I run away. So I just said, look, it was really good. I haven't got the mental space. I haven't thought of anything. So I'll just go away. Maybe you guys can do it. Nothing happens.

1:01:51Georgi Banks-Davies:Four or five years pass. And then I have the idea. And as soon as I had the idea, it contained within it everything. It contained, it was all about Roper's trip to Colombia in the 90s, a secret son. It's a father-son story, like much of Le Carre, as you can probably tell. Pine is a sort of surrogate son and Danny is the other son. And so, of course, he has to have Roper. But then I suddenly thought, can we hold him back? Good God, could we keep it secret? And that's when I went to Simon Cornwall and all the producers said, is there a way we can do this? And not however long it is, whether I think they discussed it three, two, three, four episodes.

1:02:25Georgi Banks-Davies:Can we try and keep it secret? Because if we can't keep it secret, it kind of isn't worth the candle of doing that. And we thought we could and we got away with it. Yeah, absolutely. Georgie, in terms of the first shot we see of him, I thought that was very clever. almost like kind of matter of fact wandering into view while um you know while he's being did you kind of discussions about the best way to to introduce him back into the into the show

1:02:50David Farr:we did yeah and i think it's um i mean the whole show the ethos of like how it is shot and how it's its whole premise really is to be in a very first person narrative with pine and to be extremely subjective so you never get ahead of him and because i don't want to sort of sit above the chessboard and like play the pieces it's like i want to put the camera on the porn you know and follow the night that's that's what i want to do and i want to just live it and feel it and go through those all of those emotions with the characters which is why they resonate i think so strongly because you're forced into the same moral dilemmas the characters are and so we knew that it would be very much from pine's perspective and of course we have one of not just one of the finest actors in the world one of the finest voices in the world and hearing him before you see him is goose bumpy and there is a way in which you can do it and we talked about and i sort of kind of sort of quite slight not slightly uh deviously made sure i didn't have his close-up now when you're kind of directing especially directing tv there will be somebody along the line in the edit process who says can we have the close-up of you and i kind of deliberately didn't do it because i knew that in a way that would switch perspective and it's going to dissipate actually as much as you think it will satisfy that urge to just lean in and figure out what's going on with the mystery and understand and the kind of frustration and confusion that pine's going through and that incredible performance from tom which is actually shot in like something like five minutes it's like the end of a night it's all there and it's all wrapped up in that moment that he gives because it's like literally there it's like like he was hiding we're on location for the whole show he was hiding he suddenly appears everything we see on tom's face is literally being performed in front of him that far away so it's all about kind of like trying to capture that authenticity in that very distinct first person perspective so i think i've had a very clear idea of like how we would do that that is far away from further away from us that and that the voice comes first because that voice is yes it's iconic it's iconic and we know it without even knowing it's just in the sort of universe it's in the zeitgeist somehow yeah the close up

1:04:56Georgi Banks-Davies:you want is is the close-up of tom because it's all about it's a classic it's all about the reaction his reaction is astonishing and it's all you need to everything is contained in that

1:05:05David Farr:reaction and thematically he's far away from us like as a character he's far away from us like we don't know what he's up to we don't know who he is we don't know why he's there he's a mystery and if you give that away too quickly it's not satisfying it's like and it becomes powerful for roper and this isn't it's about being with pine and pine going i now need to get closer i've got to literally get in i need to figure out what's going on so yeah it's um a kind of we knew and and my brilliant cinematographer tim sadal it's like we knew really we knew it's a sort of two shot number you know it's simply sometimes the simplicity is all it takes to really understand the character to see the characters what they see that's it super simple that works so well yeah

1:05:48Georgi Banks-Davies:because his eyes are kind of glistening on like he's kind of almost kind of welling up with the shock i guess at the moment yeah yeah yeah incredible performance really felt but we that

1:05:58David Farr:it was hot it was the middle of the night we were right in there he's literally crawling through all that undergrave if you look closely i think there's a little caterpillar like just crawling along his shirt we it is so hot boyd and he is supporting caterpillar yeah and i'll always play the entire action so i'm never just picking up a shot so you know it's almost like theater in a sense that you put everything on its feet and all the other actors are there playing the entire scene and Hugh is there hiding out of sight and just kind of pushes his chair back and reveals himself so it's all played for real so when Tom is performing it and we really did do it very very quickly there's like probably two takes what you're seeing in his eyes is is all the work we've been doing up until that point it's shot sort of midway through the shoot so kind of the point it comes in the series is actually the emotional point for the character is actually our midway point in our shoot as well so we everything we've been kind of talking about and working since that point suddenly reveals itself and and Tom is just it's one of those performances you can't articulate and they're the best when you can't describe what's going on because you just

1:07:02Georgi Banks-Davies:feel it that's all you're ever searching for you know yeah I also love that for the first meeting between the two of them um which you kind of you know delayed it's it's like um heat it's like Pacino and De Niro in heat yeah um was that an influence in the way you directed that or was it

1:07:16David Farr:I mean, you can't kind of ignore that with two like stellar actors like that going head to head, two powerful men on both sides of the coin. You can't really ignore that. And Tom is and Hugh, but Tom is a massive fan of like he is one of his favorite movies. But again, it's an interesting thing of like like the there's no this is very, very, very simple filmmaking. You kind of go it's cross shot. So you make sure that there's not a take wasted like by factors are on camera the entire time, because when they're brilliant, they're brilliant off each other. And the last thing you want is that you've got to turn the camera around.

1:07:51David Farr:And it's just two shots. And it's just testament to incredible acting. When you're like, the camera doesn't need to do anything. The filmmaking doesn't need to do anything. What it needs to do is step back, strip away, and just sit and just be. And it's really rare that you get a script as good as that. Thank you, David. And it's really rare that you get performances as good as that. that as the director you ultimately could probably just sit there and have a cup of tea and not really need to do much i think i'm actually simplifying that there was quite a lot done but there was lots going on but there was lots going on but the point being it's that it is it is influenced by that and in that same way that that scene is just two shots it's just these two men you know slightly two sizes and that's it and you can feel it and you just let the actors own the frame and you let the actors design the scene i remember you say because it's rare in in television that you get a chance to

1:08:43Georgi Banks-Davies:just to just have two people looking at each other and talking and i come from theater obviously originally so i'm very comfortable writing those long scenes and you never get to do it in television there's lots of other rewards to doing television but that's not one of them normally so suddenly to be able to write 20 pages or something like 15 20 pages of dialogue and just and and to allow it he said it's he said he loved it because it didn't just go straight from a to b and he's and he doesn't get that chance much as uh in again he's most of the scenes are fairly direct and um if and then just to allow them just to explore where the where the journey is going are you know the let the layers of truth there's very i mean there's a very simple thing about the scene which is plot wise roper kind of knows he can't just shoot him in the head because actually there's roxana in a document so there's plot things going on but that's not what we're interested in what we're interested in is the emotion of two men who haven't seen each other for all that length of time and this is where the gap by sheer chance helps us because you get this weird thing of them looking back over time talking about jed we've all we know we've all experienced that with someone from our past it's a very human thing um and the weird connections of love and hate admiration it and just i think the way georgie directs it just allows the actors to find that stuff because of the thing you just said earlier was about doing the whole scene and just you know not cutting it up just allowing them to kind of go into that space to play uh that then suddenly you get something a bit special that you hopefully you don't get often in in tv and how many um versions did you go through with that scene or does it just you just it must have been an exciting moment for you as the writer sitting down going right my two main protagonists are coming together finally after all this time it was it kind of like nerve-wracking in a way or was it just fun to be able to explore that was that to me or to george sorry a bit do you sorry damien yeah oh yeah writing it oh no it wasn't nerve-wracking at all it was it was i and i wrote it i wrote the first version quite quickly and of course it changed a bit um but it didn't change radically sometimes it's just like it's there you know you know it's there and then you find you know and you find you find things there were certain things i think we probably shifted a little bit later but Not much.

1:10:53Georgi Banks-Davies:All I knew was I wanted to get to a point that was murderous from a point where they were very... And it had to become about the theme of love because I do think fundamentally what's strange about these two characters is in different ways. They both share this fact that they find love a very complex, if not impossible thing for very different reasons. And they react to that in different ways. But that's what they have in common. And then they have something, they have differences too. and that and so that's where i knew it was going to somehow vaguely end now it's funny i don't find writing ever the scary in the way that you just described that it's like yeah yeah but i understand why i understand why you might think like that but but no it's just quite exciting and then you just and also you're on your own you're nothing nothing's going to go wrong yeah yeah absolutely yeah totally no no of course but talking of love i think one of the most interesting elements of the whole season two is Jonathan and Teddy, and Teddy clearly falling in love with him, right?

1:11:53Georgi Banks-Davies:And Jonathan falls in love with Teddy. Yeah, I think he does. That's what I was going to ask you. Do you think he really does? Because obviously Jonathan has to be manipulative in these situations, right? That's his job. And that ambiguity. But I think in the end, that awful moment when Teddy's shot in the face by his own father, and it's absolutely shattering for Jonathan, it shows that there is love from his son as well. So that's a really interesting element of the series.

1:12:19David Farr:They do love each other and it's in this gray area of like, what is it? And there is just an instant attraction to one another. And it comes from looking at somebody who ultimately is the same. Like the show is all about identity and it's about like sort of ultimately what brings us together. I'd like to think more than what tears us apart. And what I was trying to do with him, with Teddy and Pine and even Roxanna was like, OK, if you get rid of all the if you get rid of the literal boundary lines of identity of country or where you're from or religion or even gender or sexuality it's like who are we and actually when you look at when they look at each other what they all are is they're orphans of conflict and they see that and there is an un like undeniable chemistry and draw between the two men and at first it's confusing for both because both are trying to play the other in one way or another when teddy thinks it's he's dealing with matthew ellis he's trying to elicit money from him and use him and when pine is trying to infiltrate teddy's gang you know but there is this thing that that you can't predict and you can't articulate that i think we're all aware of of humans is that sometimes when in front of somebody there's just a there's just an energy there's just a magnetism and you're drawn to that person and it can be very confusing because you don't often don't know what that means and i think in their case that's exactly what's going on it's like it's friendship it's camaraderie it's sexual um and ultimately it's brotherly and it's and it's love and it is and when you and i don't think jonathan can deny it like as much as i think he might like to try and protect teddy or save teddy the danger comes from the fact like he says it to roxana in the third episode when i get close to people you know it doesn't go well and when people fall in love with me and i think the surprise of the series that is that ultimately the grand love the great love is teddy you know and it is purposeful and i think they really do to what extent that's the gray area it's like they don't know like i don't know because they don't know and we don't know it's up to the cat the characters don't know and that's what they're grappling with the entire series and there's such a chemistry between those two actors and those two and it's beautiful to see those power dynamics like play out between them and ultimately root for them it's heartbreaking when what happens is it's heartbreaking seeing pine's reaction to it it's happened again sophie jed there it goes again because he loved david david did you ever think of

1:14:48Georgi Banks-Davies:making that relationship more explicitly sexual yeah i did um actually it's a good i did initially I can remember very specifically thinking about it. And it felt wrong for a very specific story reason, which is that there was a moment where it suddenly becomes clear to Pine that Teddy's in real trouble. And therefore, if you're trying to save someone's life, you're not so focused to be really blunt about it, about on the, on the erotic part of that relationship. Something changes in that moment and it becomes, so I think this is where, I mean, this is my way of, it's a bit writerly this it's a bit my way of analyzing it um is that he doesn't know that he just suddenly it's just that he suddenly wants to save the guy with an unbearable sense of need yeah and from that moment they can you know they can then work out what that love is later right but in this moment but and he doesn't know and teddy by the way it's not that it's not like teddy's going around sleeping with anyone he's teddy's an odd very lonely man so is pine they're two lost souls so it's not going to be it's not going to be a simple thing for them to be jumping into bed together um and and so therefore for me i just couldn't feel that as a thing i was like no it doesn't that's not the so this i so i think there's there are very clear erotic moments obviously by the swimming pool in episode two and i i personally find the goodbye at the airport when he says i'll pray for you and he whispers it in his ear and i think there's a real erotic thing going on there but from the minute really you could you know after that from from from the moment pine comes back and and he then starts to turn he starts to realize that rope is okay rope is here okay and now i need to i need to switch this i think it and the way and he starts to use teddy for that purpose i think that inevitably it becomes a different story and i can really understand why people might have wanted more but i think it for me it's just impossible

1:16:42David Farr:well that's the turning point isn't it he wants to save him he knows that if he doesn't save he he knows that if he falls in love with him or if he gets close to him or it's sexual that he's likely to die so it from that moment in the fifth episode he's trying to save him when he says run in the hills be edward like he allows him to like to basically he allowed he he finds clara he finds teddy's sister for him he like he helps teddy go through the kind of cleansing of his own soul of like asking for forgiveness for for the things that he's done to himself and and in a way like I think Pine has to, as Teddy has to go, we've got to park this because if this happens, the pain's going to be too much.

1:17:21David Farr:I will lose you because my ultimate aim is that you're going to disappear in those hills and be Eduardo de Santos and nobody will ever find you again. And it's too painful if you love someone and you're in a sexual relationship with them. How do you let them go? I mean, there's self-preservation on both their parts, really. But it is tragic. And it is tragic. I mean, I also like, I feel like we all really want Teddy and Pine to just live happily ever after. I do too. I really want them to. It'd be such a, that's a whole different show and it'd be really cute. But it was the same in season one, didn't it?

1:17:53Georgi Banks-Davies:I mean, I think there's a bit of everyone that wants, I remember at the time, everyone desperately wanted Pine and Jed to be together forever. But he knows that, no, Jed has to go back to her life. You know, this taps into our protagonist. We haven't talked enough about, weirdly, about Tom, I think, who's so amazing in this season. but but pine is unfortunately one of these people who he can't he gives people he sees the life that someone that you know who that should have in jed's case it's going back to her child in teddy's case it's quite clearly going back to a to a to a family world you know which sadly he never gets to do and that that dominates that that dominates the agenda once that becomes clear and therefore where does he fit in that it's not clear sadly and that's his loneliness that's the ultimate loneliness which of course helpfully for the writer means that there's something unresolved in for the third season in pine's character can he ever find that thing that has never that has eluded him which he clearly does crave it's clear that he does crave it but he distrusts his ability to have it and he thinks he might be destructive completely i mean the finale has so many um fantastic sequences but i just wanted to talk a little bit about olivia coleman back um in the two scenes with bur and myra is incredible those indira vama um amazing and and also bur versus sandy in the taxi cab oh yeah yeah um we've had two just brilliant one-on-one sequences i mean what i guess what's my question is um i guess you you you limit the amount of time screen time we get with them to become but in a way that pays off brilliantly because you have these incredibly juicy scenes in the finale yeah i mean i she's it was a conscious choice to limit her a little bit given you know we knew that we we you know olivia when she first did the first season was not the olivia we have now she's now the most in demand actress on the in the world pretty much uh and so it's a different deal and and she but she was so committed to being in it it was so moving she really wanted she really understood the need to absolutely we can't just you know she really understood the story we wanted to tell that let's pine down fundamentally you know with this terrible subterfuge and she has to redeem herself so and we just with the question was simply we can can we tell that story economically with the most powerful scenes we can possibly create get her in spaces with amazing other actors and i think i mean it made a lot of pressure on georgie to deliver that unbelievable i was actually there for both those scenes and i mean unbelievable achievement to create that that level of tension is i think particularly Well, actually, no, both, to be honest, but the Myra scene, I think, is absolutely electric.

1:20:25David Farr:Those two women together, I mean, it is a dream. It's like they are both Indira Vam and Olivia Colman. I mean, similarly, in episode two, when you have Indira Vam and Hayley Squires head to head, you know, it's such a sort of, we are a male centric show. It's about a man. It's about Pine and his great adversary, Richard Roper. But when you get these rare moments where you get these kind of like power characters, the women together, who really going head to head. it's a whole different dynamic and it's a whole different sort of like set of rules for the characters i think and there's something special and electric that comes alive in a different way and when you have actors of that caliber it's just it's just fun like and they're very safe with each other and they really on our show the great thing is there is incredible love respect and camaraderie between the cast and everybody cares and nobody's phoning it in and what happens is that they just elevate each other and they just push and push and push and play and push all the right buttons then as characters and it's incredible to watch and you have you know often as a director you sort of remember a scene from what you've done before and go wow that was the kind of goose bump or that's when I actually cried on the set or that's the I mean this show it's like this is constant I'm like when you talk about that I'm like oh yeah that day wow or when I think about like Teddy's demise I was like I was crying or I think about Pine's reaction like we talked about at the end of three and the goosebumps in me you know I was like when you feel it live you know it's there and she olivia just has obviously she's she's olivia it's like what she brings is so unique and so special and so charismatic and and the show is just like not would just not be this she's she's his mother i mean and the show is ultimately about fathers and sons but it's also about parents and children parents yeah and she's his mother and you need that and she lies to her child you know to protect him and that again is thematically so strongly what's going on and she can just deliver that with such, well, I can't describe it.

1:22:23David Farr:That's what makes her her. Like, if I could, I'd be a millionaire.

1:22:28Georgi Banks-Davies:But again, her loss at the end of this, again, gives me, you know, it gives me a new thing to explore with Pine. He's rudderless now. He doesn't have her. Yeah, I was going to say, you've killed Olivia Colman now. I mean, that's just unforgivable. Dogs and Olivia Colman. Dogs and Olivia Colman.

1:22:44David Farr:I'm going to admit to something. if you watch that killing in episode six again and you see when the kid comes out and finds her on the ground the assassin is walking away deep in the background oh i felt like there was nobody nobody on this earth can kill our queen uh nobody is like has that right so i had to put the coat on

1:23:00Georgi Banks-Davies:and do it myself oh fantastic that's great there's my hitchcock moment you're coming my hitchcock

1:23:06David Farr:moment if you look carefully is the and it's a really nice coat and uh yeah it was it's like

1:23:11Georgi Banks-Davies:That is fantastic. There are so many things we could talk about, but the character of Myra and her, I mean, she is like, you know, she's an incredible, incredibly powerful antagonist and you just want her to lose out. But in the end, all of the bad guys really win at the end of the second season in an Empire Strikes Back style moment. But her, she particularly is so, Indira Ram is so good in her role. And it's a very John Le Carre theme, isn't it? that you can get to the upper echelons of this world and she says she's working for the good of the country, but is she really, does she really believe that or is she kind of convincing herself of that?

1:23:52Georgi Banks-Davies:Oh, I think she does probably believe that. Yeah, I think she does. I think you can, history is people with politicians and intelligence officials who absolutely believe that and do truly nefarious things in the process. I think there's more to come from the character. I'm really excited about her and I think Indira is a truly special actress and I feel we've I feel we've only got you know we've got more we've only got halfway in terms of what we can do with her because we had such a packed show this time and we were in Colombia a lot of course to which she never goes um so for me it's just an exciting opportunity to explore more with her because she's got I've seen her in the theatre and I mean she her range is uh is limited yeah I just want to ask the logistics of the show when you get all the way through you know like filming in Columbia all the different locations everything is a location right there's no everything's on location yeah both in terms of directing and the writing it's complicated you've got different lots of different strands to it and it all comes together in this spectacular writing's easy I just stay at my desk and write stuff that Georgie has to then deliver what are you talking about what was the biggest challenge in terms of like the logistics of putting this whole thing together well it's just

1:25:07David Farr:there's a reason why people go to the studio and do massive shows on video walls and green screens because it because you a show of this size has like so many moving parts and and you not just in the storytelling and script but like literally that one minute you're he's the characters running down the street then he's driving a car then they're you know and it's constantly moving it is in essence like a road movie he's going on an adventure and he's searching for something But what was really, really important to me from the moment I read David's amazing script, and I read only the first two, was like, this is steeped in authenticity.

1:25:42David Farr:And it has to be, for it to really land and be empathic, like it has to be real. So I just, with all my might, sort of just persuaded everybody that we had to do it for real. Like we had to go on location and we had to shoot on location. And I just believe that, you know, as obvious as it sounds, you can't fake the real. and the but not only do the actors feel that the atmosphere feels that the crew feel that the world feels that the camera feels that but it means that you're up again you're we were moving almost every day there's think there's only five or six locations we stayed more than a day across 96 days so you know we we had like 75 locations and it is a big from a production point of view it is a massive feat of ingenuity like the producers are exceptional at their job to be able to just coordinate that constantly moving location across the world across five countries and but you feel it and i've sort of and i've realized that actually the work the sort of the script often informs the way you should do something i mean it sounds obvious but the stakes it's not life or death it's not like our characters but the stakes are incredibly high because you're never going back and that and your clock is ticking so fast because you're never going back so we exist on a rhythm that's like up here it's like you know it's sitting right in a high tempo and of course all of that rhythm that you have on set that entire feeling you have just finds its way back into the lens so for a show that is about that every choice matter that matters and is about being entirely in the moment is about the choices that you make in that moment and the stakes are incredibly high if you build that into the atmosphere it sounds all massively manipulative It's not.

1:27:23David Farr:It's just the way I work best. But if you build that into the atmosphere, that feeling is somewhat taken care of. You know, it's there. We're living it. The crew's living it. The actors are living it. We're feeling it. And like I said about Tom, he's in the jungle looking at Hugh in a real restaurant in the middle of Columbia. The more I can take away for the actors to not have to act, just be, put them in, the better it gets.

1:27:44Georgi Banks-Davies:What's unusual about you, though, is because you could imagine that kind of thing being sounding frenetic or just, you know, everyone being constantly adrenaline rushed out. And Georgie has this completely unique ability to be very calm in the whirlwind. And that means that everyone somehow trusts that we're going to somehow get this ship through it. So you get the adrenaline. Yes. But you also have the show doesn't feel out of control or histrionic. it feels real and calm you know we we talked early on about that we have to be very careful because the show is ambitious and quite it's a big scope but we don't want to be like a james bond film it's we don't we're not fantasy you know um pine is not i i do think bond in the end is a kind of graphic novel villain a graphic novel hero or a kind of you know in the sense that in the and pine is not pine is absolute flesh and blood he's real he's real it's not it's not a judgment thing they're just different genres um bond is a superhero pine is not a superhero that's that simple um and you can you can humanize superheroes as they do with bond and but nonetheless the genres to me are very distinct and we and somehow that george's approach of sort of realism realism in terms of an actor's approach emotional approach but with great style so the genre stuff is still served that that works in a way that's really special for me this feels like what it would really be like to be you know in the middle of that world yeah exactly that yeah exactly yeah and i really wanted colombians to watch it and go yeah that could happen you know i know as a fact so many south american countries constantly feel that america and britain particularly america just go there and treat them as a large shooting lot and they the character the south american characters are rubbish and and you just don't want that is we're in a world now very obviously where this stuff really happens and we have to take this very seriously we have responsibility so that reality that georgie's talking about is a psychologically truthful thing but also politically it's really important to characters like alejandro you know the lawyer who's just such a wonderful he's so good that guy i managed to completely forget his name what's his name alberto alberto just amazing amazing actor you know he's in narcos and and he's fantastic in this and he's you apps i've met these prosecutors they are so brave in real life colombian prosecutors they are they really are risking stuff they're risking their lives you know going back into the past and examining sins of the past and crimes of the past and he's just internalized all of that because he's argentinian he totally understands all of that stuff and where it's coming from so we've managed to find i think a real political and psychological reality and that's a great tribute to george yeah totally yeah um famously seasons series two and three will commission together right and so we know there's going to be a third one where are we at with that um can we expect season three to arrive new year's day 2027 i'm afraid you can't uh uh no we're in the writing process it's it's this work takes a bit longer than i think some things uh we're not panic not it won't be 10 years uh okay but it's it will be um it will not be that quick i think it's definitely worth saying that but i can't say when it's going to be it's going to be not one year and not 10.

1:30:55Georgi Banks-Davies:That's a good answer. And Georgie, would you like to come back and direct see Series 3?

1:31:02David Farr:I mean, it's like watch this space, like look at the work, look at the scripts and the actors. It's a hard thing to like.

1:31:10Georgi Banks-Davies:Yeah. What do we see from you next, Georgie? Is there something else coming up for you?

1:31:16David Farr:This year for me is about working on film projects. I've got a race car, period race car movie, which I'm hoping will be the next thing. Very exciting, true story set in the 60s. So hopefully next will be a movie.

1:31:29Georgi Banks-Davies:Brilliant. That's exciting. Well, congratulations. I love the second series, isn't it? It just builds and builds, and the finale is just phenomenal. Thank you so much, Boyd. Brilliant. Thanks, Georgie and David. Thank you, Boyd.