PLUS A Man On The Inside

0:08Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters, and this week we're here to talk about Garage. No, not my Garage, but the Garage scene. Specifically, Kay's hitherto unrevealed obsession with UK Garage, which literally was dropped, and I shit you not, not three minutes before we pressed record, we came into the studio, the team from Kiss were in here, they were doing some kind of... History. History, right, okay. And who were the Garage personas who were in here? Basically, DJ Luck and MC Neat are in the studio next door, and I found that out, and I was very excited because...

0:39Oh my God. What? I've just realised what you said. So I only know one Garage song, right? One Garage song. Yeah. And I Googled it to find out who sung it. Guess who it was sung by? Who? DJ Luck and MC Nee. Yeah, see, this is what I'm saying. That's why I was excited. That is the only Garage song, and it is the one that goes with a little bit of luck. Yeah, don't sing it. We can make it through. I'm not going to see the voice. You know what, for us, with a little bit of luck, we'll get through this podcast. A little bit of luck, we will make it through this podcast. Yeah, so when we did, me and John Hitchcock, the former director of Empire Magazine, when we did the iPad edition and we did All Nighters, we would listen to his Garage mix, and that was on repeat.

1:14Exactly. 90s R &B and garage, UK garage, was just fantastic. And so, yeah, I'm a massive UK garage fan. I had no idea. I am genuine. Ask Steph Sealand, right? Back in the day, we used to talk about it all the time. Stephanie Sealand. And yeah, so I love, so when they came in, they said Luck and Neat were next door. I was like, oh my God, brilliant. And then these two were acting as if, do you know what this proves to me? As I've said to you. Tell me. You haven't scratched beneath the surface. That's it. You haven't got to know me, guys. So she contains multitudes. Yes, I've got hidden depths. Yeah, so you're telling me that the, whatever, like 20, 30-something K, you could see her every Saturday night dancing away to the latest R &B garage tunes of wherever in Kingston, what's it called?

1:56The local club? Okay, so back in the day, because I'm 100 years old, it was Options. Options, brilliant already. Isn't Options like a hot shop? I was going to say, that's my reference. Yeah, it's no longer... Did they serve free Options? I wish they did, but they did... Options, already brilliant. Smirnoff Ice, that's what they sold. And that's what I was very much consuming. And also, it was called, the other one was called Vaults, but then became The Works. Vaults? Yeah. Brilliant. And Vaults was my favourite because they had a garage room, and that's where you would find me, Boydo. Did you bring your own glow sticks?

2:28No, you don't. No, garage is not glow sticks. Oh, my God, you'd get thrown out of the garage room. Do you know what? I was already saying. You'd be in the cheese room, wouldn't you? So I did work experience at the Face magazine way, way, way back in the day. This is true. It's a day of revelations. Yeah. Oh my God. This is a genuine revelation. They made me, so basically it was, the place we're having some kind of anniversary. I can't remember what it was. And so I had to call up people to get their addresses to send them copies of the magazine. And I made, this was young me having never had a job me.

2:58And I remember I called up Donatella Versace's people and referred to Donatella as he because I didn't know who it was. And then I called up a record store in Soho and started talking to them about Speed Garage and the guy there, he said, can I just stop you right now? Can you please stop fucking calling it Spanish UK Garage? What the hell is wrong with you? And I got schooled on the phone by some vinyl spinner about... I've got second-hand embarrassment. Yeah. Oh, it's excruciating. Yeah. How did you... How many... So many questions. Yeah. Charles Gant, the esteemed Mr. Gant, who's the film editor, and has been almost as long as I've been there, he worked at the FaceTime.

3:35Did he? Yeah, yeah. He was, yeah, like production editor I think or something or maybe he was there when I did the work experience yeah he might have been who knows wow yeah that's did you go to the recent Face exhibition the Face is iconic properly iconic one of the most I used to read it religiously that doesn't shock me one of the most talking of cool that really is cool yes it was cool that was the height of magazine corners was the Face and you were there I was there for how long like a week a week I did a week's work experience I remember because they called me up I was at home playing Baldur's Gate 2 on my PC I literally remember what I was saying.

4:08I bet you didn't tell them that. Yeah, and they called me and said, oh, yeah, do you want to come and do work experience? I was like, yeah, all right. Do you remember who the editor was at the time? I don't know. I don't think the editor deigned to speak to the lowly workie who was me. Especially you. Who was calling up Donatello Versace and talking about Speed Garage. Yeah, exactly that. Exactly that. Wow, that's exciting. Yeah, there we go. I feel like we've learned something new about both of us. We need a fact about Boyd now. Come on. I did a day of work experience at Smash Hits. I mean, is that news?

4:34Was that David Hepworth days or Mark Frith? Mark Ellen. No, no, before Frith. Hepworth Ellen. A man called Neil Tennant, who you may have heard of. Oh, I think I've heard of him. And it was amazing. And I won it as a competition, a Radio 4 competition. I think I was 14. You were a competition winner. Yeah, a competition winner. You do have big competition winner energy. Thank you. And the prize, and we made a documentary. That's how you get on this. Made a half-fail documentary about Smash Hits, about my day as... You made a documentary? I did. Radio 4 did, yeah. So the prize was... Now, is this accessible anywhere?

5:08Do you know what? Years ago, I tried to find it, and it didn't... Listeners, if you can find it, I need it. Nowadays, every single thing on the radio is all available via BBC Sounds. But back then, it was a different thing. So I think it's probably been wiped from the archives. Sounds like a challenge. But yeah, I had this little tape recorder thing with me at all times, and I had to sit down with Mark Ellen, who I think was the editor, at the time, and I interviewed him with two mics, like, on a desk, in their office, which was back then, I think, gone. So, just to be clear, you brought your own recording equipment, and recorded the interviews yourself.

5:42No, no, but you said you were carrying it around. Yeah, I carried it around, literally, had to pick up the audio. Yeah, I did the, but you didn't set up the whole, you know. No, there was a, from memory, I think there was a guy with me, who was doing all the technical stuff. You had an assistant, nice. The one of you, sometimes you perform this function now your audio assistant basically he's lackey yeah and this adult guy was like making sure everything yeah he made sure everything was going to work technically and then the start of your career boys basically the most exciting thing about it that I remember very very clearly was that the new OMD or Kastram News in the Dark album was about to come out Architecture of Morality and they had a copy of it in advance and I was so excited by the idea of a copy in advance of my favourite band at the time.

6:29That was the most exciting thing. So I've never forgotten that. And to this day, I'm still excited about hearing and seeing stuff first. So that's continued, yeah. That was my excitement. God, this has been a really... What a revelation. This has been a real good get-to-know-the-team session. Yeah, we're well over five minutes in. We haven't even discussed television at this point. This is ostensibly a TV podcast. I can only apologise to, well, everyone listening to this. You know, this is what you pay good money for. These kind of insider glimpses at Kay's, you know, hedonistic garage youth. Speaking of which, DJ Luck and MC Neat, wait for no man.

7:02So let's move on to this week's podcast. We are here this week to address a grievous wrong. Or not, as the case may be, because you will recall that last year's Netflix TV show, A Man on the Inside, from Michael Schur, creator of The Good Place, among many other things, starring Ted Danson, which starred him as a, kind of an older man, retiree, who has kind of lost his way a little bit, former professor, and then suddenly found his purpose when he was enlisted as a kind of assistant private investigator and sent undercover in an old people's home to reclaim and discover and unearth a, I think it was a stolen necklace.

7:35Now, we reviewed it on this podcast. It got almost universally good reviews. I can't remember what you guys thought of it. I remember that I very much did not like it. And I thought it was very, very unfunny. And I remember I got quite a lot of pushback on this from listeners. Some of them, I seem to recall, said to me, well, the reason why it didn't find funny is it's not a comedy. I still take issue with that. It is quite clearly a half-hour comedy. But I would say... It's got heart. Yeah. So it's one of those sitcoms with feelings. And I don't think it pushes the laughs especially hard. I think it kind of goes for, you know, the heartstrings as much as it goes for the humour.

8:10And people do seem to love it. So the question will obviously be, have I revised my opinion on this? But refresh my memory. Like, what did you guys think of this when we first did it? Because this is like a... This is our second chance for this show. We're going to try and get it right. so listen I'm not gonna just what was the expression push you under the bus throw me under the bus let the bus roll over you back and forth turn up the garage because I also was not a fan when I watched the first episode and I thought it was unfunny I thought some of the dialogue was a bit clunky and cheesy and etc and then we did get a lot of pushback a handful of people got in touch and were like listen you need to revisit this you need to watch more than one so I actually watched the full series and I agreed with them it is good the arguments I had at the beginning still sort of stand although it's not funny it got it got more amusing as it went on but more than that it was just so heartwarming and nice to see these kind of senior characters led by ted danson and in his case it's about him sort of getting over the loss of his wife who he adored and it's kind of about second chances at life and love and finding purpose and it was really and i really did enjoy it you know like it was it was much better than i had thought it was originally so um it's an easy watch right and so with this second series I was happy to watch it I would say it's one of those shows though that um you have to watch more than one episode I think if you do just dip in once you're going to come away and think what the hell are these people talking about it's a it's a slow burn you know like you need to watch I'd say two or three and then you really sort of like um get into it and the characters really you really warm to them um in this one I particularly like the fact that Ted Danson's wife is in it, Mary Steenburgen, as his love interest.

9:50I don't remember her name down, but she's funny in it. She's quite amusing. It's a gentle romance they have. Mona. Mona, yeah. It's a gentle sort of romance that's developing. Also, James, I tell you the thing that I really enjoyed about this, it's quite a narcissistic reason, the term cuckoo bananas was invented in this episode. I knew you were going to mention that. The bastardization of Cuckoo Bong and Banana Crackers. Listen, am I going to start using that? No, I think it doesn't quite trip off the tongue in the same way. Are they worse better than Banana Bong? Yeah, that's true. But I did like the fact that they did incorporate that into the dialogue.

10:27So, yeah. It gets an extra point for me. Also, Max Greenfield's in this as a billionaire called Brad. Brad Vinnick, who's a bit of a dick. But I enjoyed that because I used to like New Girl. so yes I would say is this the funniest comedy you're going to see all week all month or possibly this year no it's not but is it a nice heartwarming easy watch that you can have in the background and that is doing a good thing in terms of portraying life as a senior sit and yes yes it is let's read into that what do you think it means it's just nice I was underwhelmed by season one I watched the first couple of episodes I didn't watch the whole thing partly because I was underwhelmed I think it's tonally I would compare it to Only Murders in the Building in the way in the sense that it's got a kind of gentle comedy vibe it's definitely a comedy I think to say it's not comedic I mean Only Murders in the Building is more comedic and funnier generally yes agreed but this still has gags I mean it has outright you know like Ted Danson Plop Plop exactly being his mind's eye First time it was brought up, okay, mildly amusing.

11:41By the fifth time, I was like, let's rest that. In the opening episode, Ted Danson's character, Charles, is in the background while the new case, if you like, is explained in quite an unsubtle bit of exposition. And he's kind of in the background, chuntering away, kind of making the odd funny comment, sort of theoretically funny comment. And it isn't funny. it's never funny like this show and I'm not necessarily that bothered about that but it's still it's still not grabbing me if you like so and I get that there was there was dramatic moments in the first series that made people and emotional moments and as you say particularly because it was set in a place for older people that its portrayal of older people was great in all their multitude etc but fundamentally I think in the opening scene which was set in a bar and I think there's echoes of Cheers but Ted Danson is a straight man in the comedy sense he's not the funny one he was never the funny one in Cheers he was the straight guy so all around him you've got Norm and Woody and Diane they were the funny ones Carla exactly he was surrounded by funny people he was not funny even himself and that's very common in sitcoms like that he has his moments in the good place though what funny?

13:14yeah he does have some funny moments I know what you mean I think he's again in that he's gently funny I'll tell you where he's funniest and this is not going to surprise any listeners he's the funniest he's ever been continually in Curb he's phenomenal and I'll tell you why because Larry David unleashes his inner craziness in Curb so they will there's a scene in Curb where he's told Larry where to buy this top, this kind of cardigan top that Larry's obsessed with. And there's one left. And they literally fight each other physically for this thing. This thing, and they tear it. And there's a few physical fights he has with Larry, which are absurd.

13:48Larry drives him wild, so he brings that side up. But that brings that. So he's really funny in those things. But that's, I credit. And by the way, I love to dance. I think he's brilliant. And of course, Mary Steenburge and his real wife is also in Curb. They play themselves. so I also like the fact that she pops up in this as his clearly putative love interest and it's quite cute that they are they're both there and you know it's fun to watch them interact with each other I mean it's a bit you know it's a bit kind of nepotistic I guess on one level but because anyone could have played that role well listen if you can have nepo babies why not nepo wife oh exactly so it's stunt casting but completely justified because it's fun watching it and they're both great but I keep going back to it it's not funny I don't think it's trying to be that funny which I think partly what our listeners are saying but it's definitely a comedy the genre is comedy it's just gentle gently amusing and at its core is a character who isn't trying to be that funny either he's kind of mildly amusing and this is all sounding a bit more critical than I tend to be but put it this way I watched the first two episodes of the season and I thought it's still fine it's still not grabbing me enough though to watch the rest and I feel guilty about it for some reason.

15:02I don't know why. Like, The Good Place, I'll tell you what, The Good Place was incredibly inventive and bold and daring, right? Yeah, it's mad and you've never seen anything like it. Genuinely very funny as well. So, that's, again, that's why, compared to that, this is, as I say, a gentle piece of lovely stuff. Lovely stick. He fits into the puzzle of The Good Place very well because you have all of these larger-than-life characters kind of going to what you were saying about Cheers. I think, you know, as a demon, and he has some slightly larger-than-life life moments spoiler for the fact that he's a demon in a good place but I think the other characters do a lot more of the comedic heavy lifting exactly but as you're right he's sort of centre stage here so it's sort of faintly gently tickling at a smile but I was reading some of the reviews of the first season they were like hilarious and heartfelt one of the year's best comedies wait about this show yeah about the previous season of this last year and I was just like I know I am maybe not the world's greatest arbiter on sitcoms I am fully willing to accept that I am maybe not the target audience for some of these things I'm getting RSI from rolling my eyes but I am I don't think it's but you are and I trust your judgement on these things I mean because I I was like I was watching it I was like I'm not wincing like it's not aggressively unfunny although the plop thing came very close it's inoffensive but it's also boring and it's I didn't find it funny and it's possible if I watch more episodes than that the sort of heartfelt aspect of it might kick him.

16:31But I didn't love him. Yeah, I think I'm dancing around the fact that it is a bit boring. Yeah. Boring and unfunny, unfortunately. Only Mones in the Building, at its best, has a similar gentle tone, but I think it's, because you've got Steve Martin and Martin Short, it's, they're inherently, they've got funny bones. They have. Martin Short is one of the funniest people in the world. I will bow to no one in my and Steve Martin comes close I know you're but these are generally considered to be comedic legends I'm an outlier in this area whereas Ted Danson is more of an actor who is most famous for comedic roles but he is the straight man whereas in they're both the funny guy Steve Martin and Marty Short the straight man in Only Murders of course is what's her name?

17:19Selena Gomez Selena Gomez, thank you so the reason I'm comparing them is because there's a similar gentleness to them and a similar kind of like... I think the key difference though is the script of Only Murders is funnier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's just, yeah. Wow. We are all men on the outside and women on the outside. Although you were kind of on the inside. You were stravelling, you were in the doorway. Yes. One foot in, one foot out. I think it's because I'd completed the first series so I got the charm of it. Yeah. Like genuinely, to watch the whole, it would be an endurance test for me to get through a season of this.

17:51I don't think I could do it. I would happily, and I bet listeners love it, a lot of people really did love the first season. They did, yes. And I'm sure they'll be furious with us. I think it's because I've got such a tight schedule of things I have to watch that this is going to be low down. But I would go back to it eventually. If enough people told me that it was brilliant, then I would go back to it. So funny enough, I'm just remembering that a lot of people really, really love this show, Mayor of Kingstown, which is with Jeremy Renner. I think it's up to it. It's like fourth season or something.

18:19And I keep getting messages from people saying, it's really brilliant. You've neglected it as a podcast. And we have. I think I watched the very first couple of episodes and I thought it was pretty decent oh you did so I've not seen a single one because for whatever reason we couldn't review it the week it came out and then I never went back to it and it's snowball we've been off with Jeremy Renner since and I've been like none of us watch it I'm really sorry I do feel bad about that so I will definitely find time to watch that I'm just using examples of shows that our listeners have really said you have neglected this show I would like to watch it and people said we neglected this show yeah they did but I don't think I think it would take a lot to me to find time to watch the rest of it, basically.

18:56I agree. Sorry to everyone who loves A Man on the Inside, but not so sorry because you'll be pleased to know that the second series of this show is, I'm going to say, now available on Netflix. It is now available on Netflix. Enjoy. Yes. Even if we don't. I don't mind it. Time for the postbag.

19:16Ladies and gentlemen, it's Miss Kay versus the postbag.

19:32Okay, so listen. Now, it's been an exceptionally busy couple of weeks, and so this week I've decided not to triage the postbag. You're going in cold? I'm going in cold. So this is like the return of my triage system, but governed by you. Yes, because, well, listen, I would like to point out that usually I handle the postbag with the love and attention and respect it deserves. But you couldn't be arsed this week. No. I listen to my system. What I usually do is I like to theme questions as in like gather them so that we're not going back and forth between stuff. Have a combination of questions, comments, a smattering of complaints if there aren't you.

20:08I don't like to encourage them. And then have a nice mix of men, women, new listeners and old listeners. Now, what I'm getting to is that I haven't been able to do that this week because my eyeballs were going to start bleeding from how much I got. This is just going to be like a tombola. Yeah. We're going to have no idea. Russian roulette. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. Okay, so we... The postbag is like a box of chocolates. I mean, that's a long-winded way of saying you're too busy to do the postbag. Yeah, well, I'm still doing the postbag. I'm just not giving it my... I haven't... Phoning it in. It hasn't gone through my rigorous system.

20:38Yeah. Right, so we start with a message from Stephen, who says, Hi there. Oh, okay, so the title is Pluribus Spoilers. Seriously? Oh, God. Okay, so listen. He goes, Hi there. Love the podcast, but who thought putting out an interview with the cast and creator of Pluribus, which included references to the relationship between the characters and details of a scene in episode three, was a good idea? I had to stop my morning run so I could fast forward past the nonsense. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who was tripped up by this. And then it turned out Kay was not there because she had not watched the series.

21:12Wish I had had that option. Kind regards, Steve. Interesting. So, I mean, obviously, Boyd brought out that question, so it's entirely his fault. That goes without saying. Boyd, big old spoilery. But that episode had aired before our podcast went out. So we were not in advance of that particular episode of the show that had already been out. Obviously, if you've not watched it, then that's regrettable. But it's a very minor moment in the episode. Well, I guess it's not a minor moment, is it? It's a very fun moment. But it's not, I don't think it's massively plotted. Also, because I listened back to that bit, what the podcast no no well yeah because I edited that bit the interview but I listened back to that bit and I was just like he wanted to listen to himself being acclaimed oh obviously I literally just thought that's what that was all about getting ready to riff it that's what it was about okay fine but I listened back to that I thought well okay because you didn't really describe the scene you just said there is a grenade and then they were laughed oh it's a live grenade but you didn't really talk we didn't describe the scene we didn't talk about what happens thank you so I'd say okay so what I'm hearing is we're not offering an apology we're actually just doubling down.

22:17No way. I'll tell you what annoys me about spoiler culture. Steve, he's coming for you. No, he's not. Don't worry. It's a general point. Any mention of anything specific in a show is considered a spoiler now. But the fact is, first of all, officially, Apple very handily with these things sends out a list of things that they consider to be the programme makers consider to be spoilers not to reveal in advance of an episode airing. And that was literally not on... Once it's aired, you're fine to talk about it. and it had aired as James says you can't wait for people to every single person in the world to wear it but it wasn't even on the list of potential spoilers because it is and I refer to it I just said it was the grenade moment and then people watch it and they'll see what I meant but I didn't reveal what it was and you know the point about the interrelationship between the characters as compared to Laurel and Hardy and stuff that's not a spoiler that's just a kind of explanation of my interpretation I compare you two to Laurel and Hardy that's fair I do I do yeah I just think it's sometimes people are over-sensitive to these things.

23:15And if the creator himself is happy to talk about it, I consider it to be not a no-go area. And he was absolutely happy to talk about it. Apple actually officially gave us the green light because they said, oh, by the way, when's this going out? And I told them, oh, it's fine to keep Grenade stuff in. That's all brilliant. And I knew which episode it was in and I specifically timed it. So I thought it would be okay to talk about. Just to play devil's advocate for Steve, I totally see where it's coming from from a perspective of some because I'm, as you know, acutely spoiler-phobic. I get quite upset about it.

23:49I think in situations like that, you kind of almost have to be like, I'm not going to listen to interviews about this show or read reviews of this show. I mean, I literally will do that. Was this a standalone episode? Was it a standalone episode? No. A spoiler special? Or was it attached? Did you have a... No, it was at the beginning of the podcast. And you had a clack-sack? Well, no, because it wasn't a spoiler interview. It was just a general interview. But because it was in... because it wasn't in advance of the show airing, I think they felt freer to talk about everything that had aired thus far.

24:18So I guess what you then have is, it's not quite a spoiler special, but they weren't quite as oblique about things as they would have been had it not aired, because they felt a bit comfortable, because they're like, oh, we've seen the first three episodes, we can kind of talk about what happens. So I do see where Steve's coming from. I don't know that I would have flagged that as a quote-unquote spoiler, based on the timing of when we did it, but also based on kind of the vagueness of the conversation. I genuinely think people get confused. I'm not, you know, about what is and isn't a spoiler.

24:46Referring to a specific scene, even if a show, even if the episode hasn't gone out yet, by a one word, like grenade in this case. Or I'll give you another example. When I went to Jack Whitehall for Malice, I asked him about, and I was initially more circumspect than he ended up being, which again often happens. And I was like, oh, there's a scene where you go to a place, a weird place, which I was referring to the sex club scene in episode two. and he then proceeded to kind of talk about it in great detail, as he has done in other interviews. And again, it's completely okay to refer to that scene by prime video, because just saying he goes to the set club doesn't reveal any more.

25:24You may be awaiting the moment if you haven't watched it yet, and when it comes and when it arrives, you go, oh yeah, they talked about that in that interview. But it's not spoiling it. It's not a plot point that's being spoiled. There's no plot difference. And you're not revealing specifics within the scene. The whole starting of spoiler culture, is all about ruining plot points. It's not about referring to scenes that you haven't seen yet. But I'm sorry, we've got to draw the line somewhere. Just so you know, Boyd's using both hands and gesticulating. Yeah, he's gesticulating wildly at you, Steve.

25:53But I think there's something to be said for, if it's a show that you love that you're really enjoying, so for me, like House of the Dragon Foundation, whatever you want, I don't want to know anything. I don't want to know who's in it. I don't want to know guest stars. I don't want to know anywhere. I don't want to know anything because it will bother my enjoyment of it. So I get where Steve's coming from. but I think if that is the case, you then kind of have to be quite disciplined in what you expose yourself to. Certainly when Game of Thrones was on, when House of Dragons was on, and The Last of Us, and I know that plot inside and out from playing the games, I would not go on social media of any kind until I'd seen the episode because there was no way to avoid it and I was aware of that so I would just not.

26:29So it's quite challenging. What I'm almost doing here is talking Steve out of listening to this podcast so I need to roll that back. Steve, do listen to this podcast, please. I can only apologise for both Boyd and James being very informal in calling you Steve when, in fact, you're named Stephen and signed off Steve. Look, when you know him as well as I do, when you've ruined Steve, when you've ruined as many TV shows for him as I have, you can call him Steve. Yeah, okay, well, that's that. Can we agree that the Russian roulette system or the postbag is working quite well? Oh, yeah, brilliant.

26:57Interesting. I mean, no, you know, we all have our opinions. What's brilliant is next week we're going to get a complaint saying, God, could you stop banging on about what does or doesn't constitute a spoiler? It's such a boring conversation because we have had that complaint before. Oh, I know, I know, of course. God, yeah, but if we listened to all the complaints, we just wouldn't do the podcast. I mean, that's true. Okay, now for a message from Guy who says... Guy or a guy? No, Guy, we can call him Guy. He says, just to endorse Death by Lightning and Boyd's spot-on review, think you and James would really enjoy it.