PLUS All’s Fair

9:38Glenn Close:Because I guess they thought, we've got to focus on our main lawyer characters, Kim's character, etc. And Naomi Watts' character. So to address the Kim Kardashian element of it, she's, again, she's fine. She's not terrible. She's already been in, she's kind of played the same character that she, like, a version of herself, if you like, that she did in American Horror Story a couple of years ago, Delicate, that American Horror Story, which wasn't one of the better American Horror Stories, to be fair. But she was fine in that. And you say she kind of, like, delivers the lines perfectly well. I wouldn't say she's wooden or stilted.

10:14Glenn Close:There are a couple of toe-curlingly bad readings in there. Generally speaking, I know what you mean. She's actually, she's inoffensively not good. Like, she, a bad thing happens to her, but I'm spoiling it. and the way she deals with that I thought was perfectly you know reasonable

10:30Niecy Nash:with no emotional range

10:31Glenn Close:whatsoever maybe I don't know whatever anyway bottom line is it is like it's like the Sex and the City movie or the second Second Sex and the City movie Second Sex and the City not as bad as that in fact not as bad as that

10:43Naomi Watts:oh my god

10:44Glenn Close:but it definitely feels like Ryan Murphy's attempt to do what I'm going to do you know this kind of raunchy women empowered feminist thing and you know my biggest issue with the whole thing is it's not nearly raunchy enough. It's quite lame. So the dialogue is quite raunchy. I mentioned that line in episode two about the cumwreck. And I thought, that's feisty and kind of, you know, and there's a lot of swearing in it. There's the use of the C word at one point.

11:08Naomi Watts:Yeah, Paulson's very angry.

11:09Glenn Close:Paulson's really funny. She climbs over the desk to kind of attack, physically attack. But in terms of the sex and nudity and raunch that you'd get in a normal Ryan Murphy show, it's really toned down. And it's almost like he's kind of like, because Kim's in it, I don't know what. She gets a kind of a lame sexy, isn't she, in episode one. And it's all very kind of slightly coy, which you don't expect from her. Everything else about it is not coy. But about that particular thing that you think this would make it a classic Ryan Murphy show, he seems to have kind of like, for some reason, so far anyway, in episodes one and two, it's quite kind of genteel in its approach to that subject matter, which is usually his forte.

11:46Glenn Close:He loves nothing more than rampant nudity. He does like the lurid, yes. Yeah, it's kind of like not lurid enough. I don't think it's kitsch. it's kind of borderline kitchen camp but I think it needs to go further in that direction and less in the kind of you know let's obsess about their fucking clothes and outfits and stuff which there is a lot of

12:03Naomi Watts:it feels style over substance

12:06Niecy Nash:it feels designed for like Instagram reels the whole thing because like the outfits are immaculate it's all bling-tacular and then weirdly a lot of the sets I know this isn't what it feels like but I know what I mean when I say it the sets had an AI feel to them And the reason why I say that is, I imagine if you went into an AR like Chachi Pichet and said, do me a picture of an incredibly opulent, rich, upscale lawyer, or if Trump were a lawyer, where would he work type thing. Because they're so grandiose and ridiculous and places that do not exist in the real world. I found that oddly at odds with exactly what you're saying, Woody, because that's so over the top.

12:46Niecy Nash:It's so ridiculous. And yet the actual substance of the show doesn't meet it halfway because the storylines are incredibly like first-base suits type, you know, legal stuff. It's like, whatever.

12:57Naomi Watts:The cases have got no heft.

12:58Niecy Nash:Yeah, really. I mean, it's very weak. And the characterisation is non-existent.

13:03Naomi Watts:Yet still, you're both giving it five stars. Weird.

13:06Niecy Nash:I know. Yeah, that's it. It's a masterpiece. Look, I thought it was awful, but I don't think it's not stars. It really isn't. It's not good on any level, and I couldn't recommend it to, honestly, anyone.

13:16Glenn Close:I feel like the critics, I'm not including you in this. Yeah, it's a part. But it's like, oh, it's a writer. It's in yet another Ryan Murphy show. Kim fucking Kardashian's in it. But for me personally,

13:27Naomi Watts:I've got no skin in that Ryan Murphy slag off game because I haven't, you know, and I love Kim Kardashian. So this is not, this is, and this, I think it's quite telling. If someone who like doesn't mind, sort of like, you know, I love highbrow stuff, but equally I like something that's just like out there just trying to be entertaining. Yet somehow this, even for me, fell short because I was like, hmm.

13:45Niecy Nash:But this like, so like the subject matter, like it's a women's law firm. the women representing women all of that is actually quite a nice set up there's nothing like the actual like the concept of the show is fine I mean look at the split which doesn't very very well I mean it is the split right

13:58Glenn Close:it really is but it shows you

13:59Niecy Nash:that you can do this and do it well you know like this is whereas this there's a laziness to this there really is

14:06Naomi Watts:do you know why they need Abby Morgan

14:08Glenn Close:yeah that's exactly what it is yeah again my complaint about it is just it's not it's lame it's kind of like just mediocre rather than the worst thing but it's not hateful

14:21Niecy Nash:like one star no stars that's the right word it's mediocre it's bad but not that bad it's not even good at being bad is what we're saying yeah

14:31Glenn Close:it needs to be more camp and ridiculous that's my main

14:35Naomi Watts:I still stick with it it's kind of diabolical

14:37Glenn Close:Ryan if you're listening I hope you've taken on board this feedback

14:39Naomi Watts:lots of love send us a review us thanks

14:43Glenn Close:by the way talking of how prolific it is they announced I mean I'm sure we'll cover this in news on the...

14:48Naomi Watts:A second season?

14:49Glenn Close:No, no, no, no. God, no. Well, I'm going to be surprised. No, another American Horror Story is coming, which I didn't know about until, you know... He's unstoppable. He's got that, he's got the Shards, he's got this, he's got Ed Gein, he's got another monster coming, which has been confirmed. I think off the top of my head, he's got about six projects. I mean, look, there are people who like his shtick, definitely. I like some of his shtick. I like it when he goes... I like Ryan Murphy's stuff, when he goes really cap and over the top and mad, and not tasteless and vulgar and horrible,

15:15Niecy Nash:like the Ed Gein one. to do with that no you're right yeah sorry I forget

15:19Glenn Close:reminding myself about that but he's definitely produced it it's definitely

15:24Niecy Nash:his name is on it but he had nothing to do with it whereas with this he wrote it he directed it he's the showrunner

15:30Naomi Watts:that cheesy dialogue is his

15:31Niecy Nash:yeah well it is it really is sit and bathe in that

15:34Naomi Watts:fromage knowing it all's fair then

15:39Niecy Nash:which is now available on Disney Plus or if you're in the US on Hulu Hulu fantastic it is time for the post bag

15:51Sarah Paulson:ladies and gentlemen it's Miss Kay versus the post bag

16:02Kay

16:08Niecy Nash:what have you got for us?

16:09Naomi Watts:I've got a message from Stu he says Hi Pilot TV Pod I just wanted to write in and let Kay know that the Prince Charles is doing a screening of The Ballad of Wallace Island with live post-film Q &A with Tim Key. Here's your shot at redemption, Kay, but make sure you put Leicester Square, not Leicester, in your GPS.

16:25Sarah Paulson:That's good.

16:25Naomi Watts:By the way, spoiler alert, I was going to mention it on the main pod. Guys, I watched it at the weekend. Did you? Oh, wow. I watched it at the weekend. I had a massive, I mean, it was probably wrong timing. I had a massive weep. I thought it was great. I loved it. Yeah, it's great. So I finally watched it on Apple. Then he continues and says, Speaking on missing out and seeing things, a question for the team is there a TV show that you missed the boat on when it was at the height of being talked about and wish you could have gone back and watched when everyone else did for me it was The Wire I only watched it once it had come out as a box set on DVD and so never got to discuss any of its big moments twists or character deaths thanks for all the pod goodness over the years and long may pilot continue Stu

17:04Niecy Nash:well Kay still has that experience ahead of her because she still hasn't watched The Wire

17:08Naomi Watts:oh and Game of Thrones that's my answer that's it

17:10Niecy Nash:that's true

17:11Naomi Watts:I would have loved to have watched it at the same time that you two did so we could talk about it.

17:15Niecy Nash:You say that, but I watched The Wire when it was going out live and Nick managed to spoil a massive moment for me. Really?

17:20Glenn Close:Oh, he always bangs on about this. I know, I'm never, ever

17:23Niecy Nash:recovering from that. Yes, he did. And I'm still, as you can tell, I'm not over it.

17:27Naomi Watts:Yeah, fair enough. You know what? Next time he's excited about a film, just ruin it for him. I'll just go, yeah,

17:32Niecy Nash:by the way, this is the ending. Fuck you.

17:33Naomi Watts:This is for The Wire.

17:34Niecy Nash:Yeah. Vengeance, a dish, best served cold.

17:38Naomi Watts:What about you, Boydo? I mean, you watch everything live. Yeah, the experience

17:43Glenn Close:The example that I always come up with, apologies, because I always mention it, is Buffy. I didn't watch Buffy. And you still haven't, have you? We did the whole exercise, didn't we? We watched an episode which I was disappointed by. But you haven't gone and said,

17:54Niecy Nash:I'm just going to watch the whole thing. Absolutely not, no.

17:56Glenn Close:No time for that.

17:58Niecy Nash:It's interesting, though, because it is one of the most influential TV shows ever made.

18:01Naomi Watts:Is it?

18:02Niecy Nash:Yeah, very much so. Is that according to you? No, from a pop culture shaping thing. I mean, James reporting on pop culture

18:08Naomi Watts:is something we should all stand back and just acknowledge. That's fair.

18:11Niecy Nash:but in terms of the impact it had on the culture of the time and the impact it had on other people but also it seeped into the vernacular that kind of we Denise that type of dialogue became how people spoke we Denise hello Denise

18:24Naomi Watts:yes Denise

18:25Glenn Close:we Denise

18:27Naomi Watts:we Denise

18:27Glenn Close:yeah so that was a big one yeah that is a big one I think that is my main one of like iconic to use that often overused word shows that's the one I missed out on for yeah reasons I'm sure there are loads of shows

18:41Niecy Nash:that I've missed out on. Loads of them. But the big one that I discovered after the day... Shrinking.

18:46Naomi Watts:What?

18:46Niecy Nash:Shrinking, which is available now

18:48Glenn Close:on the Apple screen,

18:48Niecy Nash:the site, Kay.

18:49Glenn Close:I don't know if you've noticed, but the new series has dropped. I was going to leave that till tomorrow. What the fuck? And there's also another show as well that's also on there.

18:55Naomi Watts:What?

18:56Glenn Close:Oh, my God. It might or might not be Hijack.

18:59Naomi Watts:Hijack is... Shut up!

19:00Glenn Close:No, I didn't know that. Wow!

19:02Naomi Watts:Two Apple cores dropped.

19:04Glenn Close:May or may not be. This is fun. It may be for people who have agreed to do the interview for the... Oh, she's saying I might not have it. I don't know. But still shrinking.

19:10Naomi Watts:That is brilliant news. James, can we get an agreement now?

19:15Niecy Nash:We can try. What is the agreement?

19:17Naomi Watts:Can you watch the first series in anticipation of the first? Well, I've watched the first one or two.

19:20Niecy Nash:We did review the series one. Yeah, we did review it. So I have seen some of it. Oh, okay, when I wasn't here. And I thought it was decent. I didn't dislike it. Oh, okay. It just didn't compel me to keep going. I should give it another go and revisit it, certainly. Especially because I've managed to plough through a significant amount of my sofa list recently, which I'll get onto on the show. Oh, okay. I thought you were being perverse. Something for us all to look forward to. Yeah.

19:40Naomi Watts:Okay, now a thanks from Jenny, who has named herself Jenny from the block, because that's what one of you called her. And she just thanked us for answering her question on the pod and said it was lovely, surprised to hear her email being read out. And our discussion put a big smile on her face. Oh, good. I'm glad. Thanks, Jenny.

19:55Niecy Nash:Do you know what put a smile on my face today? What? Is that we came in and Kay was talking about the fact that she'd recently sort of spoken to Dewgrey Scott. We were saying, oh, and it turns out it's for Summerwater, your show. And we were like, oh, was it for that other show? You know, that crime procedure. You know the crime one You were like You said that It's a procedural

20:09Glenn Close:It's a crime procedural What's it called It's like one word I don't know Is it shame

20:12Niecy Nash:It's a crime thing And Boyd was like Yeah it's crime

20:16Naomi Watts:I was like shit I always forget it too For some reason it's a memory

20:20Niecy Nash:I'm embodying the West Wing quote Crime Boy I don't know Because I literally Don't know it Well now

20:25Naomi Watts:Lodge it in your memory I'll try Forevermore A message from Paul the wine guy He says Morning all I was very excited To be mentioned in print In the latest Empire Albeit the wine guy didn't make it in. So he sent a little screenshot of a letter from someone who referenced his friend Paul, who had been a subscriber, who still is a subscriber for Empire and has been for 20 years, James. So thank you for keeping James in a job. And he says, back to my usual haunt with a question for the pod. I know lots of people who have visited Dubrovnik but aren't Game of Thrones enthusiasts, so didn't respond well to my enthusiastic questioning.

20:59Naomi Watts:I specifically went to, is it Ulnek? I don't know how you say it, via, oh my god, via via Gothland Station is that? Sure

21:10Niecy Nash:How do you spell it?

21:12Naomi Watts:G-O-A-T-H-L-A-N-D I'll go with Gothland Station a couple of years ago but obviously that's Empire Territory We went to Scotland in 2023 despite having precipitation two thirds of the days of the year because it looks beautiful on screen and glimpsed them filming Series 9 near Scalaway whilst we were there Also the resident orca albeit at a distance given Kay's newfound enthusiasm for Dougie, Doogie and Shetland. Have any of you ever planned a holiday, not a junket trip to Southeast Asia, using your own money because of something slash somewhere you saw on screen? All the best. All the white guy.

21:48Niecy Nash:Never in my life have I done that. But then to be fair, I don't really take a lot of holidays.

21:53Glenn Close:Yeah, that's true. What was the specific wording again? The holiday where?

21:57Naomi Watts:He said, have you ever planned a holiday, not a junket trip, using your own money because of something or somewhere you saw on screen? Have you ever been set jetting? I mean, I have kind of, because the first time I went to New York

22:11Glenn Close:was kind of because all the Woody Allen films are in New York, basically Manhattan, and, you know, Annie Hall, et cetera. Yeah, so, yeah, I did.

22:19Niecy Nash:The first time I went to LA, which was actually a stopover for 24 hours on the way to New Zealand, I wandered around LA and was a bit like, I was properly like, because everything I'd seen leading up to that point had pretty much been shot here. I found that wild. I even did one of the little tours of Star's Homes where they drive you around Beverly Hills and stuff. It was mad. So that was quite exciting.

22:39Glenn Close:And I did pay for myself to get that. I did the unofficial Seinfeld tour the real neighbour character.

22:47Naomi Watts:Insert name here.

22:49Glenn Close:Exactly. Kramer. Kramer, thank you.

22:51Naomi Watts:Did you tell Jerry this when you interviewed him?

22:53Glenn Close:He did this unofficial tour. I think I might have done actually, funnily enough, yeah. So the guy who, Kramer was based on his real neighbour, on Jerry Seinfeld's real neighbour, really kind of madcap, wacky figure. and the real Kramer did his own tour of Seinfeld related locations and it was weird it was just weird the whole thing but I did do that back in the day

23:13Naomi Watts:good answer that is actually a genuinely good answer congratulations thanks right now this message comes from Rachel and it put us all well James and I probably more than brought you into a mild panic subject heading James's comment to Darren that's when the alarm bells went off in my head I thought fuck she says good morning to all I've noticed recently that James' comments to Darren for example I want to do that again Darren in the Robin Hood chat has stayed in the pod whilst I enjoy the behind the scenes glimpse into the recording it does make me wonder if this is intentional does make me giggle when she said every time I know that's when my blood ran cold

23:53Niecy Nash:I'm like how many of these have gone through

23:55Naomi Watts:dude but it's always me I always want to go Darren

23:57Niecy Nash:because also normally when you say it's something slightly problematic yes

24:01Naomi Watts:what he means by that is I fucked up someone's name anyway so he said thanks all for cheering me up on my commute twice a week Rachel long time subscriber first time correspondent

24:11Niecy Nash:Darren Darren Darren for shame

24:13Glenn Close:for shame

24:15Niecy Nash:yeah for those I'm sure we've mentioned this before so what we tend to do on the podcast is now whenever there is a flub or we miss say something or Kay is inexplicably racist you know things like that you know whenever there's a mistake like that we say Darren. And the reason why we say Darren is, you could say partly to flag to Darren to cut it out. That bit clearly isn't working.

24:35Glenn Close:But the bit is basically because when I edit the video,

24:39Niecy Nash:I do like a word search, because you can search for the text. I do a word search for the word Darren. So it will say like, there are 365 Darrens in this episode. And then I have to go through and edit out all the bits that have a Darren in it.

24:50Naomi Watts:So what I'm hearing is we should blame you then. Yeah.

24:52Niecy Nash:Well, no, but that's for the video bit. I have no control over the audio.

24:55Naomi Watts:Yes, but then you should do a time code thing, which you send to Darren. this is you that all goes on

24:59Niecy Nash:do you know what the audio program that we use I would kill if they would add this is audition Adobe Audition I would kill if they would add that function which you have in Adobe Premiere where you can essentially audio edit via text so you can see what oh that would be amazing I would love that

25:14Naomi Watts:oh lord do you know what I'm seeing Darren on Monday I'm going to Leeds when you see me

25:19Glenn Close:you go Darren Darren

25:20Niecy Nash:Darren

25:20Glenn Close:are you doing a speech to his students

25:23Naomi Watts:it's ridiculous yes there's nothing ridiculous

25:26Glenn Close:about that it is

25:26Naomi Watts:I am

25:27Glenn Close:I did that before, but remotely.

25:29Niecy Nash:I did remotely.

25:30Naomi Watts:You went dedicated. Is it going to cause problems though?

25:33Niecy Nash:Because every time you say his name and address him, he'll cut that out of the final thing.

25:36Naomi Watts:No bad thing some would say. But I will be like, yes, I will be bringing this up to him because now I am genuinely panicked of what has been left in.

25:44Niecy Nash:Yeah. What abominations have gone out live.

25:48Naomi Watts:Yeah, cancellation.

25:49Niecy Nash:I don't know what I said in the Robin Hood review, but I'm now quite concerned about it. No, it'll be fine.

25:52Naomi Watts:Whatever. Look, you're just getting the real us.

25:55Niecy Nash:Oh yeah, unfiltered. That should really just be for subscribers, I think.

25:58Naomi Watts:Yeah, exactly. Okay, the next one. The subject is colonialism.

26:02Niecy Nash:Brilliant. This one's for Kay. Go on. It's from...

26:06Naomi Watts:Actually, it's for you.

26:07Niecy Nash:Oh, God.

26:08Naomi Watts:Yeah, it's from Stuart. And he says, just a quick message to tell James that his weirdly automatic instinct to assume Britain's claim on the Falklands was evil colonialism isn't quite right. Okay. Literally, nobody lived there until there were attempts to populate it and the Spanish, Argentinians and British all tried to populate it. Either way, I don't think you can characterize populating an uninhabited island as evil colonialism. I'm all in favour of Boyd realising that fantasy... Oh, this is a secondary point. I'm all in favour of Boyd realising that fantasy isn't really worth liking. The Fellowship of the Ring was the last time stupid names were acceptable.

26:40Naomi Watts:Stuart.

26:41Glenn Close:That's just a man after my own heart. Brilliant. Wasn't the Falklands really famous for having a population mostly of sheep?

26:48Naomi Watts:Oh, really?

26:48Glenn Close:Yeah. That might be New Zealand. No, Falklands had loads of sheep as well, I think, I believe.

26:53Niecy Nash:Yeah, and clearly the sheep needed liberating from the colonial oppressors. So that's what happened. That's a reach,

27:01Naomi Watts:even by your standards. While Boyd looks up the sheep facts, I'm going to move on to the tracers.

27:07Glenn Close:The islands have a sheep population of around half a million. That's a lot of sheep. Carry on, crack on. Sometimes I do know what I'm talking about.

27:17Naomi Watts:Yeah.

27:18Glenn Close:Always with the animal facts.

27:21Naomi Watts:Boyd, look smart, tracers. this message is from Mark aka Keravan on subreddit and he says hi Kay first time emailer to plus after the reddit ways were sadly abandoned not that we never get mentioned anymore writings hopefully add to the voices asking for a spoiler special on celebrity traitors this feels like something that could be organised without James normally normally I'm in line with James except for enjoying comedies and only murders okay 60 % in line but celebrity traitors has been an absolute joy putting the US to shame. Though if someone says we should get an MP on the next one when John Bercow is that how you say it?

28:01Naomi Watts:Bercow? Bercow? Did the US. There may have to be words. Yeah, I agree with that by the way. Mark, please consider it for a highlight that worked better than even expected. Thanks.

28:11Glenn Close:I've got a race against time situation tomorrow.

28:14Naomi Watts:I know. That's the thing. I think we've left it too late. I think the ship will have sailed.

28:17Glenn Close:What a shame. Yeah, because the rest of the entertainment is doing a live... They are. See, they're dedicated They're a dedicated boy. They're professional. They are. You know, the problem is, I'm going to see the... I'm very excited to see the new Edgar Wright film. I will be there too. The Ruddy Man tomorrow. And it ends at 8.30. I mean, thank God. It actually starts quite early and ends at 8.30ish. It's two hours. I'm assuming it's two hours long. I haven't actually double-checked. But I'm assuming it is roughly two hours long. Now I've got half an hour to get home.

28:43Naomi Watts:You're going to take your private helicopter.

28:45Glenn Close:Yeah. Thank God. Thank God for the shopper. I am worried about it. Boyd Force 2. It's a proper... Because you can't, you know, You've got to watch it live, haven't you?

28:52Naomi Watts:100%. The excitement. I would even not go to the film. No, I've got to go and see the film. James is going. He can just rabbit on about it.

28:59Glenn Close:If they have like three trailers, I'm going to be furious. Absolutely furious. If you see someone shouting at the screen, it'll be me.

29:04Naomi Watts:I'm going to message you. I could live message you just in case you're not there in time.

29:09Glenn Close:Yeah, tell them everything that happens. Yeah, no, let's not do that.

29:13Naomi Watts:Anyway.

29:13Glenn Close:But yes, it's... We could do an analysis. What, next week?

29:19Naomi Watts:Doesn't it seem too late?

29:20Glenn Close:well why is it different to apart from that it's usually the most popular show on TV why is it different to doing one on whatever slow horses or whatever the next one we do here we always do them after they finish don't we alright well I'm in

29:32Naomi Watts:alright you two can

29:33Glenn Close:rabbit on about it next week

29:34Naomi Watts:James will have to set it up yeah

29:36Niecy Nash:why don't you why don't you watch the finale yourself because I'm going to be at the screening of The Running Man oh and your device

29:43Naomi Watts:doesn't set to record

29:44Niecy Nash:I would never ever set myself I couldn't I couldn't live with myself James also won't be able to get home in time because he lives in Timbuktu. That's true. That's true. What a shame.

29:53Naomi Watts:Well, Mark, that's...

29:54Niecy Nash:On next week's Pilot Plus, we will dedicate a small period of time... Yeah, at the end. At the end. ...for you to bang on about this. Yeah, okay. And I can catch up on my emails. It's all good.

30:03Naomi Watts:Yeah. Like he's suddenly saying, that's a new thing. Yeah. Next up, we have a message from Dean. He says, Hi, Esteem Podders. In relation to the discussion about the inverted commas plot twist in The Last Frontier's first episode, which Kay didn't see coming, for what it's worth, I've not watched any of the show yet, But upon hearing the synopsis, I said, I guarantee one of the convicts switches uniforms with somebody else on the plane to escape. Just thought Boyd and James might find some amusement in knowing that I guessed the twist before Cade did without watching a second of the show. Sorry, Cade, didn't mean for this to be a pile on.

30:35Naomi Watts:Keep up the great work. Dean, you're absolutely right. Listen, I am self-aware and I do know that that was a massive fuck off of my part. And it was gigantic nincompoop behaviour. I don't know why I didn't see it coming. I can only put it down to my being, having, you know, my mind was a little bit preoccupied and yeah, I was taken by surprise.

30:54Niecy Nash:I mean, the show isn't, you know,

30:57Naomi Watts:Listen, listen, I'll take it from Dean. I'm not going to take it from you.

31:01Niecy Nash:Okay. Hey, no, no, I'm saying the show isn't great. I'm saying you haven't missed much. It's not like, you know. No, I mean,

31:05Naomi Watts:I didn't spot that thing. Oh, I know. Oh, you're being charitable. Yeah.

31:08Glenn Close:I've totally forgotten about that show. This is what I'm saying. When you mentioned it, just now the title was out before you read the rest of the night, I was like, What was that? What was that? No, we established we weren't going to continue

31:17Naomi Watts:because James was scared it was going to be a convict per episode. And it is. And we said, no, no, it won't, and then someone confirmed it was.

31:23Niecy Nash:Yeah, that is what it's become.

31:24Naomi Watts:So it's become the final frontier we won't conquer. That's what I said before.

31:27Niecy Nash:It's a network procedural that somehow has a bigger budget.

31:30Naomi Watts:Indeed. Daniel says, hello, Kay and the pilot team. I've been a listener since day one, but I'm afraid I'm about six weeks behind at the moment, so I've just heard Dr. Kate's email from a Pilot Plus back in September. Right, this is a fantastic email.

31:43Sarah Paulson:Okay.

31:44Naomi Watts:buckle up it's a little bit long but it's worth it so dr kate was asking about tv shows that linked together to tell a story about a time period and had recently watched vikings the last kingdom valhalla and king of and conqueror so i thought i'd go about creating a tv marathon that takes you through the history of britain since the battle of hastings here goes this is great okay start with the ridley scott produced mini series of pillars of the earth starring eddie redmayne and Hayley Atwell, which covers the mid-1100s. Then take your pick of any Robin Hood show for the Richard and the Lionheart slash King John period.

32:18Naomi Watts:Pillars had a sequel series, World Without End, which wasn't as good but did have Cynthia Nixon in it and covers the mid-1300s. If you don't mind a bit of Shakespeare, the BBC Hollow Crown takes you through most of the 1400s and then you get to the Tudors where there's loads of choice for let's say Wolf Hall, then Elizabeth I, miniseries with Helen Mirren. Start the 1600s with a bang and some Kit Harington with gunpowder followed by the action of a different kind in Mary and George. Channel 4, about 10 years ago, showed The Devil's Whore. Do you remember that, Boydo? Yeah. Set during the Civil Wars of the 1640s.

32:51Naomi Watts:That's my game of tag.

32:52Sarah Paulson:Carry on.

32:54Naomi Watts:Set during the Civil Wars of the 1640s. Then you get another bang because ITV did a show called The Great Fire. Never saw that one, but it had Rose Leslie, Charles Dance, and Danny Mays in it. Danny, very over-familiar. and is set in the 1660s and looks very wiggy. Never saw that one, but it had Rose Leslie, Charles Dance and Daniel Mays. It's set in the 1660s and looks very wiggy. I struggle with the 1700s, to be honest, but I guess Outlander and Bridgerton might cover it. And if not, Blackadder III has everything from Dr. Johnson to the Duke of Wellington. True.

33:29Glenn Close:Is Bridgerton saying the 1700s, did you say?

33:31Naomi Watts:Listen, I'm going with our historian here. I don't know. It's easier for the 1800s. loads of Victorian era shows like Victoria with Jenna Coleman and maybe Ripper Street or something. As Boyd suggested all those weeks ago, and it's been several weeks more because I'm aware of how long this message is, Downton Abbey covers you through 1910s and 20s and then you could probably head into Peaky Blinders. Move on to The Crown after that and you've got the rest of the 20th century and the first part of the 21st covered. Sorry about all of that. Keep up the great podding anyway. You're all lovely. Oh, you're all lovely people who cheer me up when I listen to you.

34:04Naomi Watts:and thank you James for mentioning the new Jay Kristoff book all those weeks ago yes I hadn't realised it was out so soon and now I'm very excited

34:12Niecy Nash:could I just say this is Empire of the Dawn and it is out on the 6th so it's the day this podcast comes out and I have got my copy and oh my god I have not been so excited about a book in as long as I can possibly see it have you read it? have you started? I have started it but it's such an incredible trilogy like Empire of the Vampire Empire of the Damned Empire of the Dawn which is the new one and it's great you would hate it Kay because it's fantasy with vampires but it's just one of these things like you see a book called Empire of the Vampire and you're like, okay, that sounds terrible. Like it's a very kind of generic pulpy title but the book is so good.

34:41Niecy Nash:And yeah, it's one of my favourite fantasy trilogies. Oh, listeners, his eyes have started sparkling

34:43Naomi Watts:in quite an alarming way, I have to say. Very excited. What was the author's name?

34:47Niecy Nash:Jay Kristoff. He's Australian. He's very, very good.

34:50Naomi Watts:Just appreciative he didn't go to his Aussie accent. Anyway.

34:53Niecy Nash:For Jay, I won't do that. But that is a fantastic message. This is what I'm saying.

34:58Naomi Watts:Like I had to read every single word because I was like, wow, the effort, the time and effort, but also it's so comprehensive.

35:03Niecy Nash:I feel like we should put that up somewhere. Yes, you should. We should put it on the subreddit or something so that people have it for reference because that's actually really, really good.

35:10Naomi Watts:Daniel, do you know what? We don't have this as a thing usually, but star of the letter of the postbag goes to you, Daniel, this week.

35:18Niecy Nash:Star letter.

35:19Naomi Watts:And the reward for that is absolutely nothing other than me saying it with my words.

35:23Niecy Nash:Yes, that's very good. Someone was talking to me about World War I fiction because obviously World War II fiction is, there's so much of it and like how much World War I stuff. And they were saying, you know, should I watch 1917? and I was like, watch Blackadder Goes Forth. Like, genuinely. I think that is still, for me, the definitive. I'm not saying it's the most historically accurate, but it definitely has elements of that to it. It's just satirically presented.

35:45Glenn Close:I read Ben Elton's autobiography recently. Which apparently is very good, yes. It is good. But he doesn't really go into any much detail about that particular thing at all. Oh, really? About what Blackadder or Blackadder Goes Forth. Blackadder Goes Forth. Particularly the finale. Yeah. Which, you know, is one of the great moments. moments in TV history. And he doesn't really... How do you think that is? I think that... Well, he talks about... Finally, he was interviewed on The Rest of Entertainment. He talked... Because they were both talking about how brilliant it is. So he did talk about it a bit.

36:13Glenn Close:I get the feeling, because he co-wrote to Richard Curtis that maybe... And he credits... You know, it's not just him that came up with it, Richard Curtis did it. Maybe it was like Curtis and other people... Because we should say, so he was brought on

36:24Niecy Nash:to Blackadder. So Blackadder, The Blackadder, which was Richard Curtis' show, wasn't it? Yeah, that's right. And then he was brought in for Series 2 and they totally reinvented it. Yeah, it swapped out,

36:32Glenn Close:which worked brilliantly. So in the first series of Blackadder, the Blackadder character was an idiot and Maldrick was the clever one and they just swapped them over and it worked brilliantly. But that finale to Blackadder Goes Forth is under-representative in his book, unless I kind of didn't read it in chronological order. What? Yeah, I kind of dived in. That's unconventional. Oh my God, boy, that's sick.

36:54Naomi Watts:But sick is a big word.

36:56Glenn Close:You're twisted.

36:56Naomi Watts:I'm sorry, wait a minute. You've literally picked up...

36:59Glenn Close:I didn't think this would cause... controversy.

37:01Naomi Watts:Wait, James, back me up. Oh, yeah, it's the Mark of a Sociopath. He's picked up a book, right? I'm going to start on page 57. He's just... And he stopped on a page. He thought, I'm going to start here.

37:10Glenn Close:No, I started at the beginning and then... Sick. And then just hop around. It's not a choose-your-own-adventure book

37:15Naomi Watts:for Ben Elton to discuss Rowan Atkinson.

37:18Niecy Nash:Turn to page 236.

37:20Naomi Watts:This is the top-light lamp thing again. This is really... With the big light, yeah.

37:25Glenn Close:Big light Boydy. That's what we're going to call you. No, anyway.

37:28Naomi Watts:Big old weirdo.

37:29Glenn Close:Wow.

37:31Niecy Nash:bloody hell I do it is genuinely I do think it is very much the case if you ever go around to someone's house just like for whatever reason and they turn on the big light you should immediately put your shoes on and walk out

37:42Naomi Watts:well James think of this scenario where you go to someone's house they put the top light on and they just pluck a book from a new book and they start reading it from the middle they do a recital I mean at that point

37:53Niecy Nash:you should think about calling the police in your pocket I would say check the locks have been activated

37:56Naomi Watts:sorry sorry I love you I was joking I'm teasing you I only tease people I like I'll tell you what ruins

38:02Glenn Close:the whole thing and this is my big bugbear about all books all books now factual books is no indexes the index has disappeared from book publishing it is really irritating a book particularly a book like Ben Elton's book where it's basically discussing you know loads and loads of stuff that I'm interested in the reason why I skipped back is because I wanted to read specifically about probably Blackadder Goes Forth and I couldn't find it where he talked about it and I went back to the beginning and read the whole thing all the way through. That's what happened. Anyway, yeah, there's no index and there's no index and you kind of want to see references to certain shows that he's done without wading through other bits maybe but they've completely, no one, obviously they're quite expensive and time consuming but it's really rare to get an index in a book these days.

38:49Glenn Close:It's really fucking...

38:50Naomi Watts:I hadn't noticed,

38:51Niecy Nash:so you mean like the things at the back rather than the table of contents? The bits like Blackadder, pages three, five, nine, that kind of thing.

38:58Glenn Close:You don't want any dick sisters. I'm just, you know, making it clear. Okay. Yeah, but don't you think, I just think, back in the day, I'm sure it was just like a given. I, in fact, one of my jobs that I did when I was in my last year at university was doing indexes for Bloomsbury Publishing. Really? I did some indexes, yeah. Boyd, what?

39:15Naomi Watts:Index Boyd, you need to know.

39:16Glenn Close:Yeah, you literally have to go through looking for any, like, you know, proper name or names of things and subject matter. And you literally got to read books how you liked to by jumping backwards and forwards looking for different things.

39:26Niecy Nash:Exactly.

39:26Glenn Close:Did you do it with the big light on? I didn't do it. I have not got a big light, you doofus. I didn't think it was possible to learn a new fact about you after 20 years,

39:33Naomi Watts:but finding out your new, like your Bindex, that's... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

39:37Glenn Close:I did editing at Boomsbury. Bindex Hilton. Yeah.

39:40Naomi Watts:At your pleasure. That's my bugbear.

39:42Glenn Close:If anyone else agrees, let me know.

39:44Naomi Watts:Well, anyway, a big thank you to Daniel. He sent that very comprehensive timeline. So if anyone wants to tune in to any of the shows that Daniel has mentioned, James has taken it upon himself to upload that to subreddit, and you can find it there.

39:55Niecy Nash:If you send me the email, forward it to me now, I will 100 % post it on the subreddit.

40:00Naomi Watts:Teamwork makes a dream work.

40:01Niecy Nash:Yes.

40:03Naomi Watts:Done. I mean, we can't go up beyond that. We're done, yes.

40:07Niecy Nash:And also, this is good, because this gives us time to do the Slow Horses spoiler chat, which we had said we were going to do. Now, as per our new regime, we're going to end this particular episode of Pilot Plus here, and it's going to be a separate one, so people don't accidentally stumble across spoilers, so it will be like its own little self-contained unit. So that is it for this episode of Pilot Plus, but obviously stay tuned because Slow Horses will be dropping any second now. We will see you on the Monday when we're going to talk about a great many interesting things including All Her Faults which is with Sarah Snook and Dakota Fanning.

40:37Niecy Nash:We will be doing Pluribus finally which is a new Vince Gilligan on Apple TV Plus with Ray Sehorne and we will be doing Wild Cherry on The Beeb. Plus, Jack Whitehall spoke to Boyd earlier this week, didn't he, Boydy? Yes.

40:50Glenn Close:Was he a delight? He was an absolute delight, yes. Wonderful. He managed to avoid talking about Arsenal

40:54Niecy Nash:for the whole thing. Thank God for that. So you can enjoy that as well? Okay. See you in a minute for Slow Horses. Pilot out.