PLUS Dark Matter

0:07Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters. And this week we are heading back into the multiverse for the second season of Dark Matter. And Apple TV Plus is obviously based on the novel by Blake Crouch. Or rather, I should say, the first season was. So we are in uncharted territory with this second season, which essentially takes the concept of the first novel and indeed the first season and runs with it. And one of the things I think would be very easy to think is this is like a horrible cash-in of an IP. except Blake Crouch the writer of the novel is also the showrunner and co-wrote every single episode of this second season so if you want to look at it a different way it's essentially the unofficial novel follow-up but in televisual form so there's a lot going on here uh so I should state the first season has a few twists and turns in it we are going to ruin the shit out of those right here right now so if you have not seen the first season of Dark Matter and you think you might want to you have been warned to be fair i think if you do know the twist you are 100 % going to enjoy it anyway it doesn't matter that much uh but suffice it to say we cannot discuss the second season without discussing the premise of the first so still here good right to it the end of the first season sees jennifer connelly as daniela desson and joel edgerton as jason desson and their son charlie played by oakes fegley reunited but forced to flee their world their earth because there are so many alternate jasons around like k is shaking her head already i was like when we said we were going to do this i was like yes this is right up k's alley she's gonna love it we got dimension hopping we got multiple selves it's exactly the kind of grounded family drama that you enjoy that said that said this second season i think is more more up your alley you may not get it from the first episode which i imagine is all you've seen but i've seen the whole thing and trust me when i tell you i think this one is more grounded we'll get onto that Anyway, Boydy, Boydy, Boydy, if that is indeed the prime Boyd, the Boyd we know, and not an imposter variant, please tell us what you thought about Dark Matter Season 2.

2:11Well, I have to come clean. I didn't finish Season 1. Quitter. Yeah. Lazy. Yeah. Unprofessional. Lazy, unprofessional quitter, as I am, yeah. So, but I kind of, obviously, I knew the concept. When you say the twist, what twist do you, I mean, the whole... It depends on how, so there are two kind of twists in the first season. The first is obviously that the person who has abducted him is actually him, which is a very early on twist. And that's fine to talk about. The other thing is, which I thought was kind of the masterstroke of this. The point is, is he's hopping through different worlds, right?

2:43But they go through this corridor, which is kind of this liminal space between spaces where they go into superposition, to use the technical physics term. And he is sort of everywhere at once, but also nowhere. But the point being that every choice he makes while he is in the liminal space creates a new version of him that is from the place that he's from, if that makes sense. So you've got different Jasons from different worlds. But when he is in between worlds, because it's a parallel worlds theory, so the idea is that every single possible decision or thing plays out. So there are infinite variants of this world.

3:17every decision he makes a new jason is created an alternate version of himself who also wants to get back to his home and his family so when he gets back to his quote-unquote home all these other jasons turn up and it is also their home because they are essentially variants of him but they're not from other worlds so that's the kind of slightly mind-bending bit because you end up with this moral situation at the end where you're like well all of these people are technically her husband so she has to pick one and that's why we know which one is the original one i mean does it have a red dot on him what's kind of he had like a little he had like a little uh like a string ring that he wore like we know that the jason that she ends up with is technically the original jason that was abducted but all of the others think they are also that jason even though they're not so it gets it gets quite complex in his hands yeah it does get quite complex it is i have a long-standing issue with shows films when marvel went alternate universes you know the multiverses i started to lose interest because why for me there's a fundamental problem which is so basic i almost feel stupid pointing out but if if they if there are myriad infinite number of versions of this of us all why should we care about any specific one over any other i mean i guess you veered towards the og one well yeah because it's narrative isn't it like we have a point of view character and that is the main jason you're right and what i think is interesting about this show is it plays with that especially in the second season where it gives us viewpoints for other versions and specifically manipulates that sympathy because you're absolutely right what's the difference other than to a certain extent in season one you've got evil jason and good jason so that's kind of what tells them apart which is not enough really for me but also the thing they're traveling around via this cube thing, which is basically the TARDIS.

5:06Right. Basically, yeah. That's what I thought. Yeah. Except it's kind of not time, but sort of space and reality. Also, it's less aesthetically pleasing. Yeah, true. Well, the weird thing is, it's very Doctor Who, because not only is the cube a TARDIS, basically. All right, you know, you can finesse it. Obviously, there's some differences. But there's a whole segment of Doctor Who under Stephen Moffat, where there was a big cube that looked exactly like this cube, which was a Pandorica it was about kind of playing on Pandora's box but it was a similar sized cuboid thing so if it feels I don't know when Blake Crouch wrote his book but it's just heavily indebted to Doctor Who in all kinds of ways but we can park that I mean it's I think the novel's 2016 so it's relatively recent but I would say it's not so much indebted to Doctor Who as it is indebted to sort of historical science fiction H.G.

5:57Wells all these sort of things like this stuff has been around a long time OG Star Trek has dealt with this I know. Oh, no, I'm just talking about the kind of visual of it, in a way, and the whole going into the box and coming out. Literally, the sequence, the best bit in the opening episode is when he and the family are in the box, and they open it, and they're in the middle of a hurricane-hit cityscape of the future, seemingly, or an alternate world, however you want to put it. Although, to be fair, with our climate now, it could be now. Yeah, it could just be Bournemouth. it's clearly making some kind of heavy-handed climate reference by the way so yeah they're kind of suddenly hit by this hurricane thing and they have to get back inside the box and it's all destroyed and it's a dazzling sequence it's like a huge amount of money how much must that sequence alone have cost just from the CGI budget but that was very Doctor Who again because when you're travelling around the TARDIS I'll stop talking about Doctor Who eventually honestly when you're travelling around the TARDIS you open the door and you see some mad scene you know it's just got that quality to it albeit you know this is trying to be an adult version and there's lots of effing and jeffing and uh people shooting each other and this that and the other i mean i i i enjoyed it i was impressed i think it's impressive and it's very well handled i think there was some i think some of the kind of future alternate worlds that we glimpse are a bit shonky as as james would put it i was like there's a you know there's some buildings that suddenly become all futuristic.

7:27I'm like, well, I'm not sure if that's... I wasn't entirely convinced by its visions of the future or the alternate version of that. Well, not the future. Not the future, okay. Crucially, the present. Okay, the present, okay. But a wildly... But a version of the present that looks like the future, basically. Well, yeah. So this, I mean, did you ever watch Sliders, which was a 90s sci-fi procedural starring Jerry O 'Connell, John Rhys-Davis, Sabrina Lloyd Wright? Not really. This owes an amount to that in that he had this, essentially, a device which enabled him to slide it was a cross between Doctor Who and Quantum Leap in a certain way that basically he had this device that enabled him to slide to other realities and he basically loses he can't get home so every slide he's trying to get back to his own reality and it's just different visions of what that city I can't remember was it San Francisco something like that what it would look like uh and this certainly season one of this has a lot of that in it where they're constantly going to different well hey it's tornado world hey it's future world hey it's like racist world whatever you want like and it's stuff like that so it i actually quite like that this season they move away from that format a little bit you only get a little bit of it um because i found that a little bit wearing the first time around but anyway okay okay tell us tell us what you thought i think there are a number of shows that are very easy to pick up on a second series and i would say this one isn't necessarily one of them but listen i went in because i knew it's sci-fi and i and i was like i'm gonna open my mind and i have to say i did enjoy this first episode but i did find it confused like at first there's all these rows of um jasons dead jasons is that a spoiler it's the first few minutes right rows of dead jasons and and um this sort of agent mitchell mcnamara if he is in fact a law enforcement is wanting to um find out from one of the jasons what's going on in terms of the cloning in chicago etc and i sort of bought into this and james you'll be happy No, I leant into the sci-finess of it.

9:18And I was like, okay, yeah. But then, like, at some point, I just got confused because another set of characters were introduced who have had contact with one of the Jasons and, you know, they're talking about it. And I just got so confused about who's Jason? Who is the original Jason? Yeah, Jason Prime. Yeah, who's number one? Is it the one that I saw with Daniela, Jennifer Connelly, and Charlie? Yes. Or is that actually a version of, is that not real Jason? And is that another version of Daniela, if it's in a different universe? And it just boggled my mind because I was like, which one of these is the original one?

9:58Which ones are the ones that are trying to take over his life? And so, yeah, I found it very, I wanted to say, will the real Jason please stand up? I'm Jason Dessen. I felt like I was a different version of me in a parallel universe trying to figure this out. They should all be wearing T-shirts with Jason 1 to how many to 13. Or just like one says, I'm with Jason, and it's just an advert. No, I'm with Jason. No, I'm good. I saw the... The string ring. This is confusing to me, because you said the string ring is the original one, but it seems that Daniela isn't necessarily excited to see him. So how does that mean to you?

10:35Well, so it's slightly complicated. Slightly? Yeah. Look, not being funny, so I obviously watched all of season one before I watched all of season two but it's it is a little hard to follow and I don't think the indicators of which Jason is which is always clear they do use like a facial scar and eventually a tattoo and a few other things to try and make it sort of clearer but then to your point Boyd I think sometimes it's deliberately ambiguous because almost it doesn't matter because when you're talking about the variants which are all in Chicago the ones I talked about which turned up in the corridors it almost doesn't matter because they are broadly speaking all the original Jason they're just versions of him and some of them are slightly more desperate than others because they've been shaped by the traumas of going through all these different worlds so but broadly speaking the one who's with daniella is the one is let's call him jason prime like that's that's the main one and then there is a main antagonist jason who is the one who abducted him in the first place and is now on a kind of redemption arc i think i'm now sort of siding not siding i'm seeing boyd's point that if well if there are all these original jasons then how which one do you care about like this is much like the experience of watching the friday the 13th franchise uh indeed how do you care about a specific jason um the one well so it was really hard to kind of talk about the series with just having seen the first episode because it uh just to paraphrase steph on everything that she watches but it is true because this sort of enters a slightly different rhythm so the first season was a very tight arc it was it was all about one guy trying to get home and going through all these different worlds to do it but it was it was i want to say it was like eight or nine episodes it felt like it it ran out of rope like it felt like they were like it's quite a tight novel i got my bookshelf behind me but it's like it's a relatively tight story and it felt like they drew it out and it got a bit where they're sitting like they're sitting on the floor in the box like talking about snacks and biscuits i was like honestly at this point i feel like maybe yeah maybe you've got too many episodes here so while i really liked season one i felt like it outstayed its welcome a bit this second season i had a completely different feeling too because it on on the one hand it's slightly longer on the other hand it is um slower paced and it's more deliberate and it is less has a less obvious arc to it but on the other hand i think it really works as a character study in a way that the first one maybe doesn't um because what happens with this like the initial setup is they're trying to find a new home and when they finally do find a new home they basically hang there for most of the season and the idea is then it's then about them reckoning with the traumas of their past and it becomes about fractures in their marriage how the son reckons with it because the son had a twin brother who died but of course he's dead in their world but not dead in all worlds and it kind of explores the first one was all about the path not taken like the decisions we make and how they define us and this second season is all about what is contentment what is happiness can you ever be happy if you know if you know for a fact there is a better reality just a couple of steps through a box away like and i think that's a really interesting idea and it's about, you know, understanding that happiness is what you make of it and sometimes you have to find contentment with what you have and not constantly be chasing something that's better.

13:34Anyone who's been on a dating app will know exactly what this is. Can you be happy if you have to watch 10 episodes of this highly repressed movie? Do you know what? It's fucking great. I loved every second of this. My happiness is not watching anymore, I think. Fair enough. Yeah. But I think this is a better season than the first one for that reason. I think it's a really interesting character study. It goes in unexpected directions. There's lots of other characters as well, though, with their different... Indeed, there are. There's the guru. simpson yeah yoga guy yes they are kenny's character and he's kind of like the villain from season one to an extent if there is an overarching villain but he's not really a villain and also which version of him is a villain so that's well he's kind of a billionaire who funds stuff and wants to kind of fix the world with all the stuff that comes with that you've got jimmy simpson is uh variously a scientist and a mechanic depending on which version of him that we're talking about alice braga is in it as amanda who's someone who worked with evil jason but is now kind of like hanging out with prime jason and then to complicate all of that there are two uh capsule episodes in this season standalone episodes which are really largely unconnected to the whole story and they're fucking great as little mini parables one of them in particular takes the viewpoint of a completely different jason and his life and i think that's a really nice look at you know exactly what you're talking about boy just changing the point of view and getting in someone else's head and i think that's a really nice little story and then there's another the one with margot martindale which is great too but yeah it's a really good season palette cleanser where you just focus on one because at least you feel like you get to know one properly rather than yeah we could just go on forever you could have a palette you know you could have like myriad palette cleansers where you just have a different you absolutely could yeah and then you and you could end up with a little anthology show you could totally do that because the kind of possibilities are quite literally endless um but i yeah i found this a very good follow-up season one i'm really glad they made it and i hope they make more of them okay can i have a side note i I just want to say a side note thing.

15:17Of course. Right. I'm convinced that Taron Egerton is related to Joel Egerton. Right. Right. But Google says it's not true. Yes. Now, I think if you look at them, they look similar. And I'm just saying as a side note, if any of the BBC researchers for the genealogy show, who do you think you are, are listening to Pilot, please can you get Taron on? Because I think you're going to find that actually they are related somehow. But you know they spelt, you know Edgerton is spelt differently? Well, Boyd, I didn't realise that entirely. But I still think. So Joel has an edge, has an E-D-G-E-R-T-O-N.

15:55Whereas Taron only has an E-G, he has no D. So it's just a different name. Listen, in time that could have dropped off. You don't know. Names change over time. Okay. And isn't, in fact, also Joel Australian? Yes, he is. Boyd, there are no boundaries. like stop being so prescriptive about this. I think you've fallen into a wormhole over the phrase itself. Okay, listen, was I mainly Googling this as I was trying to understand the Jason thing? Yes, I was. Are you saying you were more interested in Joel Edgerton and Taryn Edgerton's non-relationship than you were in the multiple versions of reality in this show that were really confusing and bewildering and why should we care?

16:36Yes. None of that is true. I would say if you had seen season one and I would argue slightly more understood season two, I think you would like it more. I do. I do think you would like it more if you want to mess it up. So you're saying they're not related, James, I'm hearing. I'm saying that, you know, I think we need to get into the real thing. Boyd and Paris, related? Who knows? Yeah, that also true. The story of the Hiltons, it's a long and tawdry history. It is, yeah. No, I enjoyed it. I did enjoy it. I just, it's a bit like, it reminds me of... You're hiding it well. Yeah, it reminds me a bit of Severance, right?

17:08Severance is incredibly complicated and, you know, full of... similar but but they're so careful in severance to make you care about characters who are doing stuff that you know have there's a similar there's a similar ring to it to you know anything could happen people go into different realities and blah blah blah but this one i didn't feel they quite worked hard enough to make to make you care about og i think if you had been through the first season with him you would yeah i think you know because man goes through the ringer a little bit so and that's his entire family because also bear in mind that his wife there who'd had an abusive background is in a situation now where she doesn't know whether her husband is her husband so there's a very much a kind of uh there's a sort of subtext about you know uh it's a metaphor for domestic abuse there as well wait so was original jason abusive or her husband was not but some of the others have been and she can't tell them apart so yeah and that's the thing so whenever her husband comes home she's thinking is that my husband so that's why she has a safe word as well exactly so there's there's all of that that stuff going on as well so but yeah i feel sorry for the sun having to like you know constantly yeah yeah constantly move to another world just when he's making friends yeah it's difficult yeah no it's interesting dark matter then which lands on friday on the apple tv plus find it there okay it is time for the post bag k is here but i'm gonna sense that k is not in charge of the post bag this week mainly because i don't think she has access to it so yes this will my access has been revoked yeah so this is still this is still my postbag i'm so sorry okay we have a message here from well let's see it says hello you all i've noticed recently you have what seems like a disproportionate number of emails from stevens stevens ph stevens v but stevens generally this could just be me noticing each one as it is my name as well so maybe you could tabulate all email senders names and then transfer the names into a frequency part to confirm or disprove my hypothesis yes i shall get right on that steven uh maybe we stevens are more likely to be peak tv fans or podcast listeners or are the same few stevens writing in regularly it's anecdote of course rather than data but last winter i attended a meetup in london for a u.s movie podcast had been going for more than 20 years it was a small event with 13 or 14 attendees in a bar most of the attendees were within five years either way of my age 50 and all but one male five or six of us were stevens surely this means something it's probably an age thing i was at school with multiple stevens my kids know no teen stevens which is gen z's loss figured you'd find this exactly as interesting as i did but i'm willing to take the flack off Steph for a while if I'm wrong.

19:57Keep up the good work, Stephs and Stephens for the win. Best, Jim. Kidding, Stephen. Maybe Stephen should seek out alternate versions of himself. Well, I'm thinking Dark Matter Series 3 is all about Stephens. This is 100 % what's happened, isn't it? Clearly, Stephen at one point entered superposition and went into the box, made a load of decisions, and all the other Stephens then came back to our reality and are, for whatever reason, obsessed with podcasts. He went into the TARDIS, played with the Pandora, came out on Skate and turned into Dark Matters. Get out of the liminal space, Stephen. But it's interesting.

20:26I can't think of many Stevens that I know, you know, the younger Stevens. Yeah, and it's interesting how names go in and out. I think the name Stephen has maybe gone out of fashion a little bit. Definitely, yeah. So there are fewer Stevens to be getting on with. This list is always fashionable to us, though. We mustn't diss the name. I mean. We would never. Yeah. We would never diss the name. It makes it more special that they're Stephen. Special Stephen. Special Stephen. Let's maybe not call Stephen that. uh so we have a write of reply next you will remember that uh someone wrote in i believe graham recently uh to show a picture of graham's dog yoda and graham's you didn't see the picture but graham's dog yoda was apparently so bored by alley cats that he started howling at the screen and made them turn it off because graham had been forced to watch it by his wife and he was not impressed here is a message from graham's wife oh yes dear pod my husband graham wrote in regarding alley cats he seems to be determined to hate it because empire reviewed it so badly personally i'm on team pilot for this one and i'm really enjoying it graham's main criticism is that it isn't laugh out loud funny but i don't think it's supposed to be it's more subtle onto yoda she is a six-year-old german short-haired pointer and loves people so she would surely give you many cuddles if you ever met her finally i demand justice for steph asking her to review the third season of a show that she hasn't even been told was the third season and then she gets full backlash of the Vampire Army.

21:48We love you in our house, Steph. And shame on James. Harsh. Oh, anything that ends shame on James has to be... She includes another picture of Yoda looking majestic against the sunset in the Highlands or something. But yes, that's very nice. Sorry, Graham. You have been told. Hardly with Mrs. Graham. Possibly en route to divorce. What is Mrs. Graham's name? Oh, did I not say? Hang on. No. This is Gail. Thank you, Gail. This is Gail. Great message. Okay, let's see. Okay, we've been taken to task. It's funny that it's Gail. Oh, sorry, because I'm going to Gail as soon as this. Yes, that is funny, Boydie.

22:22Perhaps it is the same Gail, and actually they've been in superposition, and they've come back to our reality, and, you know, it's a whole Dark Matter thing again, except with pastries. If it is that Gail, Gail, can you send us some delicious patisserie? Yeah, please send us buns. Because it's overcharged in Gail's. Anyway. Oh, overcharged. Wow. Yeah, it's too expensive. You can't get Gail for the price of a pastry. Overpriced, yeah, sorry. Overpriced, no. Okay. anyway this is not from gail but we've been taken to task by nadine and nadine says your last podcast 17th of august was shocking i've watched all three seasons of interview with the vampire and just like steph found season three abysmal why then backpedal and not stick with your opinion however unpopular it is i decided not to watch furious after your review but you backpedaled again because the general consensus out there is that the show is good oh you only saw the first episode isn't that precisely your job to provide opinions and reviews in your domain of expertise but you change your mind so easily just to be in line with the most popular opinion what is the point then oh my gosh right first of all i think sorry what's this person called uh this is from nadine nadine i would like to prescribe you a chill pill first of all um but also just to say and I'm not involved in this but I'm just gonna on um Stess's behalf just generally speaking when you when there's a reverse ferret that doesn't always happen but when it does it's because you know maybe not enough has been watched or it's legit legitimate liking of a show further down the line which can happen and I think I think actually it's better for someone to hold their hands up and go do you know what I thought it was crap to begin with but actually I can see it's got you know merit or enjoying it much more and there's things to like about it and to say that rather than to maybe take for example james's line sometimes when he's just belligerently sticks to whatever you know a blind opinion on something not blind opinion but you know he's to his guns but james will often say if he hasn't liked something at first and then he's every now and again it's rare he'll say occasionally oh actually do you know what i have come around to it and i think that's a good thing i think that's i think this this correspondent is having a go at James as well, aren't they?

24:31I think this is possibly, possibly the first time I've ever been pilloried for being too open-minded. Which is nice. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. No, it's good to admit when you've made a mistake. I agree. I think, and I would say on record, and anyone who knows me will agree with this, I have in my life never changed my opinion based on what other people think. No one will be surprised to hear that. No. I give precisely no fucks. However, I do think it is important genuinely to admit when you are wrong like i think that is something that we all struggle with and i think it's a very important thing to do when you've been quick to judge it doesn't mean sometimes so like sometimes it's quick to judge sometimes we haven't watched enough of it and sometimes you can watch a thing not like it and then come back to it another time in a different mood and be like actually do you know what i actually see this slightly differently obviously that's never going to happen with android which is rubbish no matter how you look at it but uh Oh, do not get me started on that.

25:26You imbecile. Shots fired. Shots fired. And I was defending you. That's the only, this is James all over. This is just him in a nutshell. Burn it all down. Burn it all down. But on these various points, so Furious, we watched one episode, which I maintain, like Widow's Bay, isn't a great first episode, and I do think it gets better after that. So Furious, and I've watched all of it, it's fantastic. I really like it. I'm not backpedalling. I've reappraised it. succession is one where i watched it didn't like it the whole world thinks it's the best thing in the world i've tried to watch it now four times and i can just can't like it it just isn't for me that it is what it is it's never going to change i'm so sorry i would say interview the vampires an odd one to pick up on because both boyd and i thought it was great and we said so when we reviewed it it was only steph that didn't like it season three i wasn't i didn't like that yeah but you still said good things about it and so i can see where people like it and i think you know and i i enjoy it i have now finished season three of vampire stat and i have fucking notes you best believe i will get into those notes maybe we'll talk about not the main podcast uh i don't think it's as good as season one or two i think it's a really good season it takes incredibly bold swings but i still have notes but we will get into that further down the line so i would say that our job in part is obviously to to look at a show make a judgment on it and then tell people whether or not they should watch it because we're kind of by proxy managing your time for you but equally i think it is also our job to complete continue watching something and tell you if oh actually we were wrong it fell off a cliff it actually gets shit you know which happens or to say do you know what we were wrong this is actually really good you should go back and watch it because that's part of the public service i don't think it's flip-flopping i don't think it's backpedaler i think it's you know having our minds open enough to to receive new information and then you know come to a different conclusion but also i don't think it happens that often so you know in the mere fact with the mere fact that we could just have twice in one episode Right, yeah, exactly.

27:17So it felt like, oh, we're backtracking on our opinion because suddenly we realise everyone else likes it. For me, part of the reason why I went back to Widow's Bay was because, A, our own colleague was really, really keen on it, Steph. She championed it and said we were being unfair. And then I started to read other critics and it became clear that it was a phenomenon. It wasn't just that I wasn't that keen on the first episode, and then I watched more, and I thought, oh, this is actually better. And I saw Steph and a couple of other people saying, oh, you should try and watch more because it's really good.

27:57It was a phenomenon. People lost their shit over how good that series was. So that's an unusual case of a show where I thought the first episode was a bit annoying and a bit shouty, and then it turned out to be one of the best shows of the year. so I don't think it happens that much and generally we and the more episodes of a show you can watch but it's a time constraint as well because there are critics out there, there's some big American TV critics who basically review one show a week and they go oh I've watched all nine episodes, well good for you if we're watching three a week at least and there are nine hour long episodes you know whatever, we just do not have time to watch them and double check you know what you need Boydie either a TARDIS or a box that puts you into superposition so multiple Boyds can watch different, so you can basically assign a season to a different void.

28:43So each void could watch one show a week and then we could have you all on and you could give us your opinion. I think we might have solved this problem. Okay, yeah. Sort of sorted. Let's do it. Right, there you go, Nadine. We found a solution. But by and large, we review stuff with a few episodes and we stick to it. And generally, particularly James, doesn't change his mind. Oh, yeah. And most of the time, I stand by what I've said. So I don't think we're entirely pointless, hopefully. No, I don't think we try ever to echo other people's opinions. But I do think, you know, and we've talked about this on the podcast before, so it's now just getting boring.

29:13But if a lot of people like a show and you haven't, then you think, well, okay, did I miss something? Because, you know, you think, so you'd be prepared to, you know, maybe not. Maybe they're all wrong. Certainly that happens to me a lot. But anyway, let's move on from that particular thing to something from Anthony. And Anthony says, first time emailer, long time listener. I decided to get in touch because the recent edition of Mr. Mercedes to Netflix has me wondering why the show has never had any traction in the pilot tv discourse surely now with the addition of steph to the podcast this should be revised as it hits the sweet spot in the venn diagram of your primary interests for steph there is a sociopathic serial killer for james there is a science fiction slash supernatural element and for boyd there is an opportunity to tell an anecdote about arsenal and one of his celebrity friends a double boydy if you will to be 100 honest you are not alone in ignoring mr mercedes even stephen king has been quoted as saying it was like we bought a stadium show to a coffee shop.

30:09I liked it a lot, but nobody saw it. In my view, the criticism about the show being overly drawn out is valid, and all three of the series would benefit from being six to eight episodes instead of ten. However, Mr. Mercedes is still a hugely enjoyable Netflix binge with strong performances and a stellar soundtrack. Boydy. I haven't even heard of it. It's got Boydy's close personal friend, Brendan Gleeson in it. Brendan Gleeson, yeah. And a treadaway, I believe. There's a treadaway. Yeah, Harry So something for Kay. Kelly Lynch. Brendan, by the way, will be feeling very hurt this morning because his beloved Aston Villa lost 4-0 on the weekend.

30:45Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers with Brendan. The Gleesons in general. It's an interesting example, isn't it? Because it was like 30 episodes. I remember it was pretty well-reviewed. I think I watched a couple of episodes and thought it was pretty good. But yeah, in the end, it didn't fully punch through. It didn't create much of a phenomenon. But it was, yeah, I remember it being really solidly good quality TV. Well, the reason we didn't cover it is it started before this podcast did. Oh, okay. Because it was 2017 that this began. That's a good excuse. So that's the reason why we didn't review it when it came out.

31:19I have actually started Mr. Mercedes. I've tried to start it a couple of times. I think I've watched four episodes of it. It is, as we've often said, deliberately paced. It is not the fastest moving thing. And honestly, I struggled with it a little bit. But it remains on the sofa list because I've always intended to go back to it. because it was like, I'm watching it, I'm like, it is good, but good God, it's slow-paced. Unlike an actual Mercedes. Very much so, yes. So I kind of, I struggled to get on with it. I will go back to it, but yeah, I found it a bit of a slog early on. But yeah, it's had very good reviews, especially very good.

31:54Now that it's on Netflix, maybe other people will watch it and decide that it is great. Oh, I mean, it's bound to get a sudden uplift in order to do it. Oh yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, yeah, interesting. I remember the music being really good sorry I've been I do not remember that right Luis wishes to talk to you Boydie about a number of things but not what you think so Luis says hello I know in the last few weeks your reviews for the Vampire of Staten Alley Cats were called for much scrutiny and discussion but he doesn't want to talk about that he says but I think your most egregious opinion was on the Shards after Boyd was going on about it for months so I thought I'd give it a shot but I'm now five episodes in and I can't watch any more of it.

32:35The serial killer mystery is boring because we don't get any clues other than the phone calls. The beats of relationship dramas in every episode are the same and the dialogue and performances are very wooden. I can't believe all of you liked it as much as you did. Maybe Boyd's love of Brett Easton Ellis and his hyping up of the show somehow influenced your opinions. I didn't feel like the performances were wooden. No. I think that's ungenerous. Well, Louis has your number. I'm just saying. I think it dips in the middle a bit. I mean, I've seen all nine episodes, and I would say that, I don't know if I said this in my review, but I think, yeah, there's a bit in the middle that isn't really from the book, and it's a whole, there's like a dance competition thing.

33:15I think I did mention it when we reviewed it. I didn't want to spoil anything. So I think four episodes have been out already, as we recall this, and I think these dance competition-based episodes, which are like in the middle, five, six maybe, are not great. But in general, I really enjoyed it when I got to the end. And it's the vibe as much as anything. I think the acting is quite kind of studied in a way, but that's in the script. And everyone's got masks on to some extent, and everyone's behaving in a way to impress other people. That's part of the whole kind of theme of it, a theme of British Sinners itself.

33:53So, yeah, no, by the way, I think it's definitely, I know we're not acknowledging outside reviews, but you and Steph both liked it, right? Kate? Yeah, I enjoyed. Yeah, we both did, yeah. And just to be clear, this was in the same episode that you all loved Ali Kahn's, just for clarity. Yeah, the same episode. Okay, just checking. Our correct opinions shone through throughout the episode. Yeah, indeed, indeed. Just to sum up. Note to self, never go on holiday again. Carry on. My thing was, and I stick with it, if you enjoy Ricky Gervais and his work and want to hear him hanging out with his friends from his previous shows and just like having a lovely catch up and chit chat, this is the show for you.

34:34What, the Shards? No, Ali Kess. Then watch the Shards because that's exactly what it is. I'm defending my position on it and I think that's absolutely correct. I'd love to see Ricky Gervais pop up in the Shards. That would be fantastic. Yeah. It may happen. I'm sticking with my opinion. Thank you very much. Who was that person? Luis, wasn't it? Luis. Luis, yeah. I feel like there's a lot of attacks and reviews going on. Well, I was saying, Nadine would be very pleased, though, that you're not prepared to flip-flop. So that's important. It's the two extremes, isn't it? You're either doubling down or flip-flopping.

35:08You can't fucking win. But look, we have a lot of negativity in this postbag. So I thought I'd pull out one which is not negative. And this comes from Marianne. Jake's going to pull one out. Oh, God. Steady boy. So you had to lower the tone. I'm about to read a nice message. I would argue that there would be more negativity. You had to lower the tone. Hi, wonderful Pilot TV pod people. Please don't let the negativity of some of the comments get you. I know most are set in Jess, but some are from people who need to get out more. I'm a long-time supporter and subscriber of all the various Empire and Pilot TV iterations since the earliest days of Empire Magazine.

35:44Just to let you all know, you are all my sunshine in these dark days, and I love your rambles, asides, tangents, and bickering. I never mind when you can't get the video loaded onto YouTube. After all, it's a bonus, not a right. And even when I disagree with any of your reviews, I hope I'm mature enough to know that it's not life or death, only opinion. Except when Boyd witters on about the Gunners. And then she says, and then it says COYS in capital letters and I don't know what that means. Oh yeah, here we go. Is it Come On You Spurs? Come On You Spurs, yeah. Of course Spurs as well. They'll be hurting today.

36:14They lost 3-0 at the weekend, I'm afraid. Sad times. Boyd, you don't look too sad. Yeah, you don't look too sad about that. Five stars and three chocolate cakes all round Marianne. There we go. So isn't that a nice message? Our favourite listener. Thank you, Marianne. um as something i while we're talking about people who have moaned about stuff one of the things i did notice was uh there was a i think it kicked off on uh i think it was someone pointed me to the subreddit for this one people a bunch of people were like upset that their monthly direct debit had increased because the price of the podcast went up in july uh and they were furious and not having been given notice to be fair a lot of people did point out that we talked about it on the podcast every week for like six weeks so we were but they said well we hadn't listened in six weeks it's like you know we should have been told it's like i don't really know how to answer that question it's like we gave as much notice as we possibly could obviously we never want to raise the amount like that's never the goal you know but we are these are out of our hands we don't set the business policy for power media unfortunately uh and we did try to give you as much notice as possible so that you could uh so you could lock in the old price if at all possible um so apologies for those of you who are paying an extra pound for pilot plus but a big thanks from all of us for those of you who continue to subscribe a lot of these people were saying they were going to cancel their subscription over the price rise uh i'm sorry you feel that way i know it's a you know times are tight money wise i get it but equally we there's nothing we can do about it also they're probably not going to hear this because they're probably not going to hear it because they cancel their subscription that's absolutely true i think they they may have been turned around by our love of uh of alley cats and the sharks yeah almost certainly yes that is definitely what's turned around and my exclusive on joel and taran edge may be being related yeah I mean, honestly, this is a high-quality current affairs podcast.

37:51Where would you get the inside scoop on Edgerton truthing? Nowhere else but the Pilot TV podcast. I'm serious. It's quite extraordinary. So we're glad that we were able to offer that service. Okay. Let's see what Kat has to say. Kat says, On Plus, you talked about palette-cleansing watches, and it got me thinking about shows that I only watch in certain situations. So I only ever used to watch The Chase with my dad when visiting home. after he passed away i now watch it only when i'm staying in a hotel it's always the first thing i do when i get into the room as the chase is pretty much always on the challenge channel the other one is taskmaster which i always watch when i'm away in my camper van it has become a bit of a ritual so my question to you is are there any shows that you only watch at certain times or in certain places while you're thinking i i have a few what so i'm i'm i'm gonna be going on a flight this week when i head off on my annual trip to florida uh and so one of the things i like to find a karaoke trip it may or may not be uh it's not it's not exclusively about karaoke that's a happy side effect but i uh i like to pick something for the plane and i want to say i think last year i watched the pit because it was obviously streaming on the plane which was great so i watched all of the uh the first season of the pit uh or was that the year before anyway one year i did that um and uh this year i'm trying to work out what to do so i'm leaning towards mayor of kingstown um based on steph's recommendation so that may be what i end up playing on the plane so i like to have a show that i can really sink my teeth into i feel like you did did you do that once with shogun i would never never have tried to watch shogun's glorious subtitles on a small screen you've got me joking i would only watch that as you know as they were meant to be seen um but no so i'm going to be torn this year between playing elden ring on my switch or watching mayor of kingstown so i'm going to have to see which i do but and this is true whenever i'm going away somewhere when i'm traveling somewhere i like to bring a comfort show with me because you know traveling can be a little bit discombobulating and you don't get like and i and i feel like so if i feel if i'm starting to feel anxious where i am i like to have a comfort show with me in case anxiety ceases me so there was a period where i would yes there was a period where i would always bring like a season of the west wing with me so if i if i was anxious wherever i was i could whack that on and it would it would bring me a layer of calm so that was that was the thing that i do it's like a dog having a little toy isn't it yes much like that the west wing is my chew toy.

40:12That's the name of my album. That's interesting. I mean, I do similar in a way. I took, I took Slow Horses of the forthcoming season with me to Barcelona recently and I watched some of it in my room. Is that while you're in Barcelona or on the plane? While I was in Barcelona. Yeah. See, I never take shows away to watch because I'm just like doing stuff. It feels too much like work. Yeah. It's kind of, but also just like, you know. Yeah, it's downtime. And I also watched The Pit on the plane, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great way to watch it because you mainline it. You can't do anything else.

40:50You're just there in the pit. It's great. Exactly, yeah. And of course, we will be doing a special discussion. Yeah, and full disclosure, I suggested we do it this week and Boyd, he said no. No, I need to prepare. You suggested it an hour before we were doing it. You watched it last week. No, it's now like weeks ago. You know what his memory's like. Yeah. You know, thank you, yes. I don't have a real answer for this, but all I would say is at the moment I'm in a real sort of cosy crime flex. Are you? Yeah. Well, I'll talk about it on the main pod because it's what I've been watching. But yeah, like I've just been mainlining cosy crime.

41:26Maybe it's a comfort thing just to like. I think so. I mean, it's called cosy crime for a reason. Exactly. It's cosy. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you all about that shortly. We look forward to it. But yes, no, I don't think that there's a specific, like I don't have a particular show that I will watch in a particular place. To let the lady know who messaged in, the new series of Taskmaster is coming out soon, so you'll have that to watch in your camper van. Yeah, it goes. Richard Ayoade's on it and is fantastic. And Matt Lucas, yeah. Yeah, I've done it. Nina Conti. Do you know what, mentioning the chase though, which of course is my favourite game show, quiz show, as opposed to game show, actually.