PLUS Dexter: Resurrection, The Walking Dead: Dead City, and Buffy The Vampire Slayer

21:35Kay Ribeiro:Yeah, I can still save Steph. There's no saving case. She doesn't have the history of your belligerence with regards to it. And me, so she might go into it fresh. She hasn't been scarred. Foundation-based gaslighting. It could be a thing. It's a foundation for an HR case. That's what it is. You want to be careful. Tread very carefully. Very, very get me. Right, are we ready to move on from foundation? Sure. Now for a message from Jack, who says, Dear Postmistress Kay, at least I spelled that part right, Sourcing Officer Boyd, soon to be automated, and Tyrannical CEO James. Fair. I'm an aggressive subscriber to Pilot TV+.

22:17An aggressive subscriber. I love that.

22:18Kay Ribeiro:It doesn't just subscribe, it subscribes aggressively. That's what I like to hear. Yeah. And have been there since the day it was merely a twinkle in Terry White's headphones. Yet I can't remember a time this question was asked, even though it's perhaps an obvious one. And so it's broad enough that a re-evaluation should cause no long-term distress with proper time and counselling. As a professional musician and burgeoning composer, and as someone who has Shazam permanently running in the background, my question is simply this. What are some of the best slash most iconic needle drops in TV history?

22:49Examples that immediately spring to mind are Imogen Heap's Hide and Seek on the IC, Kate Bush is running up her I was going to say running up the hill running up her hill he's about running up her hill during Stranger Things it's a very different song and more recently of course Ellie's acoustic version of Take On Me in The Last of Us yes I know it's equally iconic in the game but it still counts on a personal level I'm a fan of the more Utre brackets twat use of soundtrack such as FKA Twigs two weeks in season two of Mr Robot do you know what I didn't see that but I love that song or literally anything featured on any of Noah Hawley's projects.

23:26I've learned a lot about Bulgarian women's choirs from Fargo season three. Interested to hear your thoughts and thanks as ever for your superlative work. I shall continue to listen until such a time as the sun rises in the west and sets in the east when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves when my womb quickens again and I bear a living child. Sorry, Kay, you may require some Jamesplaining here.

23:46Kay Ribeiro:Game of Thrones. Fine. Best, Jack. I love that you signed off with Best as well. Classic sign-off. Yeah, we like best. I have prepared an extensive list to answer this question, so I will let you two go first. Are we sure? Okay, Boyder, you can go first if you want. No, because you haven't picked one, have you? I've got quite a few. Oh. Your face is... Genuinely astonished. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I was going to say I cheated. I researched, so I looked up, you know, to jog my memory, because it's quite hard sometimes to remember. So I just had a few options. Okay. I've got two options. Go on, you go first.

24:17I've only got two options, and they're both on the same show. Oh. Can you guess which show? The best show for Needle Drops of our time right now as we speak. Oh, I know it. The Bear. Yes, The Bear. The Bear. The Bear Needle Drops are fucking amazing. I think the creator of The Bear, Krista Thingy. Krista Storer. Thingamajib. I don't think you can call him that. He's kind of my age and has almost exactly my musical face. And owns your record collection. He owns my record collection. So I've just watched, we're going to do a spoiler special next week, right? but I've just finished the whole of the series.

24:52So have I.

24:53Kay Ribeiro:Right. There's Strange Currencies by R.E.M., which is one of my favourite songs of all time, and the deployment of it is spectacular. It's so moving. It's such a moving song anyway, but the way he uses it is extraordinary. And then even better is he brings back the classic bare needle drop from season three, two or three, maybe even two, which is Bruce Hornsby's The Show Goes On. Sing it. It's very piano-y. I'm not going to sing it. He thought about it. He was thinking about it, James. He thought about it. The show goes on, the ladies coming on, the show goes on. Yeah, never heard of it. I haven't either.

25:32It's a massive piano. It's a good rendition. Thank you. It wasn't, it was terrible. You don't have to say it. But it's a massive piano-based ballad. It builds to a spectacular, you know, strings arrive. But it's just the tune of it on the piano that's beautiful and very simple. And he brings it back, yeah, in a crucial moment in an absolutely Don't spoil it. No, no, no. Emotionally devastating moment. That's back. Or rather, not emotionally devastating, actually, the opposite in a way. Anyway, he redeploys it and fantastically well and those are my two favourite needle drops that I can think of in recent times and they're both from The Bear.

26:05Good choices. I love them. Good choices. Okay, these aren't my favourites, they're just needle drops.

26:10Kay Ribeiro:Just the ones that Google provided for you. Yes, I understand. Well, there's the classic Yazoo's Only You in the office with Dawn and Tim's Christmas special kiss. Yes. That was good. Yes. James, recall? Big up, Yazoo. Yeah, always. And also take that back for good. It's used seconds later. Another classic. Now, more recently, do you remember Robert Palmer's Addicted to Love during the Mile High Club moment in Rivals? Yeah. That was quite exceptional. I enjoyed that a lot. And then for some older ones, so our correspondent mentioned about the OC. Yes, hide and seek, which is when Marissa shoots Trey to save Ryan.

26:51Which I re-watched this morning. Oh my God, it's awful, but yeah.

26:53Kay Ribeiro:It is, but that Imogen Heaps song got used on everything around that time. In fact, a lot of her music did. Oh, really? Well, also Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah When Marissa Dies. I always think that's iconic. I would say that is up there with the most overused tracks in film and TV of any song ever. And also in the OC. They used it a couple of times. They were like, every week it felt like they were playing it. Yeah, you're not wrong. And then what else? Okay, and then this one's a bit of a cheat because it's actually a theme tune, but Michael Kiwanuka's Cold Little Heart from Big Little Lies was just brilliant.

27:23Kay Ribeiro:And I just had it on a loop on my Spotify playlist because I loved it. So, yeah, it's cheating. Sure, Boyd's pulling that face off. You've done it again, but it's an answer. It's an answer, which is better than no answer. Well, I have so many answers because this is one of the rare occasions where Kay sent something in advance and I was on the train. I thought, I'm going to have a real thing about this. Whoa, whoa, rewind. Oh, no, sorry. I meant to say, Kay sent one in advance and I bothered to read it. Okay, fine. It wasn't that fair and a go at you. It was huge. A rare time, Kay sent it in advance.

27:53Kay Ribeiro:No, you all sent them in advance but I never read them. But I did in this particular year so I thought I'm going to have a real think about this so I gave it a lot of thought and I came up with a lot. The other question that's coming up has got seven answers to it. It's true. It's grumpy. I managed to carve out a few hours in my day to carry on. Don't blame me, blame the listener. The lists of songs that I've got that kind of popped into my head, well, Don't Stop Believing, obviously Glee, no, I'm kidding, Sopranos finale, obviously the final moments of Sopranos, so Journey, don't stop believing.

28:19Kay Ribeiro:Do you remember, ER were quite big on having kind of end of emotional episode musical montages, Coldplay's Clocks, they used really well on one of those. Also, Somewhere Over the Rainbow when Mark Green... Wow, that's cold. That is cold. No, sorry, boys made me laugh. Yeah, yeah, really funny, Mark Green died, oh my God. What a laugh. No, when Mark Green died, it was terrible. devastating and they played um wow wow what did they play and how funny was it no they played somewhere over the rainbow so boys it's just i don't know why he's such a giggle monster it's just his face yeah that's just what it looks like by judy garland no what is going on do we talked about mr robot recently on the pilot plus uh the season one finale of mr robot which i believe is a nod specifically to fight club they play the pixies where is my mind when you have that revelation that Mr.

29:15Kay Ribeiro:Robot is actually part of his own personality which is kind of a nice thing do you remember when Umbrella Academy first came out now I didn't love the show but do you remember the Tiffany montage I think we're alone now where they're all in the different rooms that is a great use of that song and that is really well deployed I love that Stranger Things yes Kate Bush but Metallica Master of Puppets same season season 4 so I watched this recently when he's playing it on top of the trailer that is great that is really well done if we're talking The Last of Us Long Long Time by Linda Ronstadt which is from the Bill and Frank episode of The Last of Us which is kind of a montage that plays on the piano which is great I have to have Taylor Swift in here so I'm going to have the use of Exile from Folklore which plays in the episode of You when Joe is I believe it's just after he's killed Love and he's faking her suicide thing so he's doing all that that was great Cheery Speaking of Taylor Swift Look What You Made Me Do played on The Handmaid's Tale recently and it was a big deal because it was the Taylor's version of Look What You Made Me Do, which has never been released because she's never released the Reputation Taylor's version.

30:13Kay Ribeiro:So that was a big deal. What else have I got? Game of Thrones, The Reigns of Castamere, which is the big song which denotes the Lannisters getting their revenge. The National did a cover of that that played over the end credits and that is a fucking banger. That's great. Absolutely love that. Now, everyone listening to this knows my love of the West Wing so I can't go anywhere near this list without saying Ronnie Jordan, the Jackal. CJ's the Jackal. You remember the episode? Yes, of course. Yeah, where she mouths on to that, which is fantastic. Every single episode of The Wire, or every season, I should say, starts with a sort of cover version of Down in the Hole, the Tom Waits song.

30:48Kay Ribeiro:Season two is actually Tom Waits himself, but season one is my favorite. That's from the Blind Boys of Alabama. If you're even remotely interested, the Neville brothers did season three, Domager did season four, and Steve Earle did season five. So there you go. What else have I got for you? Baby Blue by Badfinger, the very end of Breaking Bad. Do you remember that? No. Okay, brilliant. Well done, Boydie. I'm near the end don't worry because my favourite uses of songs in TV shows is always where the song itself becomes an inseparable part of the narrative and it becomes a recurring theme and it becomes part of the fabric of the show and an unusual choice on this would be Barry White my first my last my everything which remember in Ally McBeal when Peter McNichols would look in the mirror to kind of psych himself up and he would hear Barry White playing in his head and I loved that song that I thought was so well used as a kind of a, as like a leitmotif all the way through that show.

31:39Kay Ribeiro:And I love that. But the absolute definitive correct answer to this specific thing is... She's looking at me. Yeah, go on. Yeah. Bob Dylan, All Along the Watchtower, Battlestar Galactica. Although it's not actually Bob Dylan, it's Bear McCreary. So Bear McCreary's cover of All Along the Watchtower, which becomes part of the fabric. It has kind of Middle Eastern influences in it. And it becomes the song that all of the secret sleeper cylons hear in their heads. and there's the crescendo episode when all of them, they all come together and the song builds and builds and it builds into a full-blown version of that song when it's been played as a leitmotif all the way through that season and it is so brilliantly deployed.

32:18Yeah, yeah.

32:18Kay Ribeiro:And that is my favorite. As a massive Bob Dylan fan, you must have been thrilled. Yes, clearly I am a massive Dylan fan. But no, I mean, I think we can all agree Bear McCreary's is the definitive version of that song. Oh, unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my answer. That's my many answers to that question. Prepared as I am. Congratulations. Well, hopefully you've also prepared for this question because as Boyd alluded to a little earlier, there are seven parts to it. But I feel since Jason has gone to the effort of writing all this down, I will... The effing effort. I will ask it. So he says, A question I've always wanted to ask.

32:52What is the best limited series of all time and the best shows that lasted two seasons, three seasons, etc.? The series has to have finished so that no, The Last of Us, and you have to have seen the show. And then he's given his answers. So his answers are limited series Chernobyl, two seasons. Oh, he's changed from series to seasons. That's interesting. Two seasons Mindhunter, three seasons Narcos. Narcos? Narcos. And he said, are there many great shows lasting three seasons? Four seasons Succession, five seasons Breaking Bad, six seasons The Sopranos, and seven seasons plus. and he said take your pick going for Friends as Game of Thrones dropped off a cliff and not seen the West Wing.

33:36Interested to hear different takes some worthy close calls. Love the pod. Thanks.

33:41Kay Ribeiro:I think he's Mr Trick. Oh, what? Because he's had limited series and then gone straight from that to two seasons. I say there's a clear distinction between a limited series and a one season show. And I think we should include one season shows as well as limited series. So a one season show would be a show that was cancelled after one season and a limited series was only ever designed to be one season. No, I'm not into talking about shows that just got axed. Because what's the point? I'm going to. Oh, that's okay. You look so smug when you did that. Well, I'm even more smug because I stuck to the brief and did come up with a limited series.

34:11Oh, well done. So did I. Boyd, are you going first? I've got a limited series as well. In fact, I've got several of them. All right, well, we're all going to answer. There's no need to show off. If you've got several limited series, which I'll answer the question, why would you then have to throw in no limited series just to be annoying? That's why we call him Mary Mary. Anyway, here's the definitive list, all you need to know. Limited series, The Night Of. Two seasons, The OA, obviously. Three seasons, The Leftovers. Four seasons, Succession, indeed. Five seasons, The Wire. Six seasons, Better Call Saul.

34:42And seven seasons, Mad Men.

34:44Kay Ribeiro:You didn't go with Lost for six seasons then. No, fuck Lost. Mad Men. You got literally seven of the greatest TV shows of all time in my list. No debate needed. I 100 % knew that would be your list. go on James alright so but let's look about limited series though so there is quite like the competition for limited series is actually quite tight Night of is a really good shout but I would say State of Play is equally worthy of that top spot also you could consider something like Band of Brothers oh the British State of Play yeah not the American the John Sim David Morrissey would be the best limited series of all time on my list it's incredible Band of Brothers obviously it's another one the Night Manager would have been one but isn't now because it's a returning series so that is automatically disqualified.

35:30Kay Ribeiro:When they see us, also not a bad shout at all. Normal People would definitely be on my shortlist. I'm surprised you didn't go with I May Destroy You. I thought that would be... Do you know what? I actually, for some reason, I completely stuck with American shows. I think just because they were in... The correspondence list was... Racist. Yeah, so... Why do you hate British shows? I just can't stand them. No, I completely forgot about even considering British shows. I May Destroy You may well have been... That's a shocking state of affairs. Mayor of Easttown would qualify. I'm sorry, when you sent this question, Kate, and I had to come up with seven answers within, you know, having had like an hour's warning, then sorry that I didn't come up with that other version.

36:05Do you know what we're experiencing, listeners? A lash out, a classic Boyd lash out. Or Dev's is another one you could have considered. Dev, 100%. Yeah, I thought you'd mention that one. Well, in that case, you said you knew exactly what I was going to do, Brandon. You're claiming you thought I would have Dev's.

36:16Kay Ribeiro:No, I knew you'd say the night. I didn't know you'd say the night. Oh, look, look, just how he said it. No, no, I knew. No, because we were talking about it recently. and also whenever we talk about this and when Boydie did his list of best shows for the BBC that was the one he picked so I true also like things like Midnight Mass Haunting of Hill House Watchmen as well limited series these are all good but yeah my choice if I had to only pick one it would be set of play good okay okay for one season a show one season show that was limited series now we're doing now he's adding an extra now I'm adding another category fuck you both yes this is one season so a show that ran for one season and was then cancelled not a question and I went backwards and forwards on this.

36:52Kay Ribeiro:I thought Firefly, maybe my so-called life, Terriers, Studio 60, Freaks and Geeks. In the end, I've opted for High Fidelity, which was fabulous and was cancelled after one season. For two seasons, I knew you'd say the OA, so I'm going with Fawlty Towers. Yes, that's on my list. Yeah. For three seasons, because fuck you both and go in the Wheel of Time. There's a lot of effing and jeffing. That's just embarrassing. Four seasons, four seasons, I was actually torn. Four seasons, yes. The four seasons, I was torn between Blackadder and Battlestar Galactica. So you could pick one. I thought you would have gone for Banshee.

37:25Kay Ribeiro:No, no, it's not Blackadder or Battlestar level, but I do love that show. It does begin with a B, though. It does begin with a B, yes. It's, by the way, from the man who refuses to watch Succession. That's right. On account of it not being as good as any of those shows. Five seasons, the why is the correct answer, but you could go Breaking Bad or you could go Friday Night Lights. So, yeah, take a pick there. Six seasons, yes, The Sopranos. Seven seasons, obviously, The West Wing. And eight seasons, because fuck it, Game of Thrones. Nine seasons, didn't it? Nine seasons, Seinfeld. I mean, I can carry on going if you want.

37:53Kay Ribeiro:Ten would be friends. Absolutely not. Anyway, that's that question. Have you got your answers, Kay? I didn't give it as much time or thought as you guys. You shocked me. Of course you didn't. You must have at least one answer. Yes, I do. Okay. But they're not necessarily... Don't excuse it, Kay. Okay, fine. Well, limited series, I went for something top recent, Mr. Bates. I thought that was a good limited series with an important story, well told. Two seasons, I also have Fawlty Towers or Fleabag. That was also on my list. Good, good. Three seasons. That's amazing. Sorry. Well done. Well done, Kate.

38:32Well done for choosing good shows. What you can't see with this is that he actually actively lent out and tried to pat me on the head. No, you didn't.

38:37Kay Ribeiro:I did not. You didn't. You'd have had my hand off if I'd done that. That's why I've got a taser. Right, three seasons, we've got, well, The Killing. I was umming and ahhing between The Killing and Happy Valley. Oh, Happy Valley, yeah. Because I enjoyed those both. Yeah, Happy Valley for sure. Well, it's British Boyd, you wouldn't have gone for that. Four seasons, Succession or Sherlock. Five seasons, oh, I was kind of stuck with it. I went for The Crown or The Good Wife, but then I'm not saying they're the best. It's just the ones that came up on my internet search. Six seasons, Downton, just because a bit of loyalty to Downton.

39:12Or Line of Duty, actually, I'll go for. Oh, come on. Hello, Line of Duty.

39:16Kay Ribeiro:Fuck Downton. Oh my god. The Dowager Countess would be furious. She'll be turning in her... There's only one winner there. And seven seasons, I went for Slow Horses because that's also breaking news. You can't have that because I haven't finished. Disqualified. He very clearly said it had to be finished. Okay, he also very clearly said limited series and then two seasons and you still opted for that one season bullshit so I'm going for it. I stuck with the brief. Yeah, Boyd wins. I expanded upon the spirit of the brief. Is that what you did? Yeah, that's what I did. He just wanted to say expanded.

39:45Kay Ribeiro:Fine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes, it had in many ways had a dexterous erection and included an extra category. I bet you did, yeah. Oh, dear. Okay. Are we done? Yeah, the postbag is over. We're done. The postbag is, thank God. The postbag is finished. It's been tied and a double knot has been applied. If you would like to submit your question, it is. And lots of people come in and say, oh, I don't remember what the email address is saying. I mean, like, we say it every week. No, but can I just say, in their defence, it's such a long thing. Well, actually, I was also thinking of the live event email address the website so I'm getting confused but also with this I think we should pin it on socials because I wouldn't remember if I was listening Pilot TV the name of the podcast at empiremagazine.com yeah that is it so you're going to pin it?

40:28Kay Ribeiro:no okay I've tried listeners we move now to Sunnydale specifically Sunnydale, California home of Buffy the Vampire Slayer for we are inducting Boyd and Kay into the world of Buffy since they are both Buffy noobs and don't really know anything about it. Although, remember, Boyd doesn't remember because he gets very angry about this. Apparently, he's said so many times, even though every listener, and we both think he's a virgin to it, but yeah, no, apparently he's not. Boydy, name all the episodes you've seen, go. No. Caught out in his lies. Boyd, the Lord of Lies, and Kay, will now attempt to assess Buffy based on one episode that was selected semi-democratically by listeners and it was chosen as Season 2, Episode 3, School Hard, an episode which is famous for the introduction of James Masters as Spike, aka William the Bloody, the vampire, the British vampire, except he's very much not.

41:27Oh, was he meant to be British?

41:28Kay Ribeiro:He was, yes. He was meant to be British, yes. I very much enjoy his accent, but that's why the hint on that. But Spike became a bit of a fan favourite and actually persisted to the end of the show, becoming a bit of an anti-hero. He was a lot of fun. But the question is, off the back of this episode, what did you think of the show? Kay, tell me your Buffy thoughts. My Buffy thoughts was, whoever, I can't remember, sorry, I've forgotten the listener's name who thought of this. Actually, we did a poll. Quite a few. Yeah, quite a few. This was quite a few. And I have to say it was a good choice because it seems like a standalone episode.

42:01I didn't need to know much of the backstory other than she is a vampire slayer, which is evident. And I enjoyed it. I thought it was fun. I would say that it's dated now when you watch it. Very much so, yes. The fight scenes, you're kind of like, you know.

42:13Kay Ribeiro:Oh, the fight scenes. Well, bearing in mind, and this is an interesting point, that this is a show that was done before the era of HDTV. So this was designed to be shown in 4-3 in standard definition. You see this in HD. It is so abundantly clear that the stunt woman is not Sarah Michelle Gellar that they don't even look remotely similar. It's quite entertaining. So my question to you is, like, at the time, did the fight scenes seem realistic to you? Well, bearing in mind the general quality of television at the time, it didn't seem out of sorts. It's not like ninja-level choreography, but it's pretty good martial arts.

42:49Kay Ribeiro:It's quite fun for a network TV show about teenagers. And was it scary for you? No, it's not meant to be scary, no. Okay. No, I wasn't sure if it was. Don't get me wrong, I think there are some episodes that definitely sort of flirt with horror, not in the way the X-Files did, but there are certainly some slightly chilling ones. I was actually startled at one point when the, I can't remember the girl's name, the fellow rebel who got told off by the headmaster. Oh, I don't know. She's a disposable character. When she turns into a vampire and tries to kill Buffy, I was genuinely quite startled by that.

43:15So, I mean, there was a small shock for me. But overall, I enjoyed it. I think if I wasn't a Dawson's Creek head back then, because that's what my time and energy was invested in, and also if I liked brackets vampires, I probably would have got into this because it's a high school drama. You know, I know it's about vampires and slaying, etc. But yeah, it comes down to that, right?

43:33Kay Ribeiro:What do you think of the dialogue? Because the dialogue is quite distinct. I didn't hate it. I mean, okay. I didn't actually notice it. Well, exactly. I was surprised that this was... For me, I thought the choice... Yeah, you can... I mean, I do know the basic story of Buffy. I mean, it's not Foundation, but yes. I'm fully aware of it as a phenomenon and have watched a few episodes in the past. But I didn't quite get why this episode was chosen. I'm with you. I thought this was not a good choice. Oh, really? Because I think it's a good access point to the show in that it doesn't require a lot, but it's not a particularly good episode of the show.

44:13The dialogue is fairly routine. I think that's why it was chosen, because of its accessibility.

44:18Kay Ribeiro:But a lot of them, I think, are accessible. Oh, really? I think the emphasis should... I blame myself slightly, because it seems... Oh, it's definitely your fault. This seems like the democratic choice, but a couple of other people mentioned other episodes that may have ended up being more special than this one. This one felt very routine and run-of-the-mill. And the dialogue, there's one reference to Anne Rice, which was... Yes. That's nice. that's funny and maybe one other pop culture thing that was referred to apart from that I thought it was very functional the dialogue and the whole episode was functional because apart from the arrival of James Moss with the worst accent ever don't just go oh it doesn't matter it's fine it is horrendous that accent it's one of the worst and by the way just the general acting is shonky from him I think the acting it's difficult when something is of this age because it is so dated, and you're right.

45:09The fight scenes are awful, cheesy, and the kind of special effects are cheesy. It gets better as it goes along the show, but this is still an early one. It's really difficult. There's something about this particular length of time and a fantasy, a show, that really dates quickly, and this really has dated badly. But I thought particularly the acting was very variable. I mean, you know, she's great. Selma Schell-Geller's great and everything, but other characters, not so much, and particularly him I thought he was awful the fact that he made it to the end of the whole thing is extraordinary he must have got bad because he is fucking shit I thought the end was anticlimactic I mean the mum hitting Spike over the head and like harumph women and he just ran off I was like what?

45:52that was yeah disappointing this episode failed utterly to entice me to watching any more episodes I'm so sorry I was quite looking forward to it to remind myself what I've been missing you know blah blah blah but yeah I didn't hate it as much sorry

46:04Kay Ribeiro:I think the listeners tried to show one that showed the kind of formula of the show, as opposed to something like Hush or Once More Feeling, which is definitely better. But because they're a massive deviation from the general Buffy vibe, I think they felt it wouldn't be representative of the show. They wanted something that was. Representative doesn't matter. I just want the best, most interesting episode. But this isn't a strong episode. I do think the early seasons are very patchy at times, and this is an example of that. And as you say, it has dated a lot. It really has. you know maybe we should have done something like Hush or one of those we'll never know now I would like to give an honourable mention to Sarah Michelle Gellar's thin eyebrows and anyone who over plucked anyone who was around that time like me over plucked I mean my eyebrows were so over plucked I once remember being at an airport I just turned to my mum to say something to her and she was like you look perpetually surprised wow so there's one the legacy of Buffy is an over plucked eyebrows it was very it was very cool back in the day why did this inspire you in some way shape or form yeah without even realising yeah unruly eyebrows that's you know that's what we're left with that is what that's the legacy of Buffy isn't it it's a bit of a shame it is a shame because Buffy is a great show but I think Buffy is important for what it represented and you know and it was a sort of turning point and I think especially teen television like because it's It's action, it's funny, it's well-written, it showed teenagers in a very different light, it's very feminist.

47:34Kay Ribeiro:And also she was a really great role model for Young Women, which I thought was fantastic. And it has got moments of genius to it. I would argue very strongly that very little of that genius is evident in this particular episode. Yeah, it's a shame. I tell you what, I started then Googling because I was just like, oh, okay, I want to know more about it. And then I fell down the whole Joss Whedon, yeah. There's the other thing there. Yes. interestingly so Xander as a character is the avatar for Whedon in this so he's the kind of like oh he was good I liked him I thought he was a good actor Nicholas Brendan yeah he was good yeah he was probably the best I thought he had the best performance which one was he again?

48:07he's the kind of the best friend the kind of the funny best friend

48:09Kay Ribeiro:although there's one shot in this and I thought this is so it's almost sadistic where Buffy and Willow are talking and they're at the bronze and Xander is in the background just dancing and obviously you know the way these are shot obviously they won't have music playing in the room because they can't really because the music's added afterwards so he would have been dancing to nothing and because he's dancing in the background presumably in every take of them talking he has to just throw shakes behind him and he's in the background for fucking ages just dancing away what was he being punished for I was just saying I was thinking that what did you do to piss them off because Jesus Christ dancing scenes in anything are always terrible by and large but this was one of the ones you're right that was the moment I was like oh my god the poor guy frugging away like literally going Yeah, it was excruciating.

48:56Yeah, it was like Liz, what's her name? Truss. Liz Truss at the Conservative Party. Remember, she walked, or was it? That was Theresa May. Theresa May. That was the May bot. It was Theresa May. He was the Theresa May of Buffet. Yeah, it was, that was quite excruciating.

49:09Kay Ribeiro:And I think, yeah, it was lacking some of the, you know, the sparkle that you get from that kind of Wiedenese dialogue. Definitely not. Very little sparkle. Armin Shimmerman then, as the headmaster, famous for playing which role in what show, Boydie? Oh, I didn't recognise him. I don't know. Yeah, I recognise him. That's Quark from Deep Space Nine. Oh. Fuck you. Fuck you. Not what I was thinking. Can't believe you didn't get that, Kate. Oh, you lured me into it. I did. I did. I did indeed. The police chief that he speaks to at the end, I recognised him as well. Is he from everything? I can't remember.

49:41Kay Ribeiro:I can't remember who plays the police chief. If you watch, you know, a lot of American kind of networks. Oh, yeah, because people would turn up. There's a whole endless circle of supporting actors, character actors. So you see popping up in sitcoms and, you know, it's... But it was always seasonal as well, but around the same time, like, do you remember Alan Dale? There were like a period of two years where Alan Dale was in almost every network show, from the OC to the West Wing to everything else. Alan Dale back soon in The Assassin, by the way, kids. Is he? I love Alan Dale. Jim Robinson for the win.

50:10Kay Ribeiro:He's brilliant in The Assassin. I'm not reviewing it. Sounds like it. He's in The Assassin coming up with Keely Hawes. Exciting. There we go. And as Boydie breaks an embargo, we head off into the sunset. Ending this week's show. Yes, but we should, of course, remind our lovely listeners that if they haven't bought a ticket for the live show... Why not? They have an opportunity. Why not? Don't give me... There's no idea. Even Australia. Whatever. Buy a ticket. Boyd is sending his private jet to Sydney. We literally had a meeting just before this where we discussed the wonderful things that are going to be happening at this live show.

50:42And it wasn't tensile fraud at all. It was enjoyable and we've got lots of great plans. That's right. It's fantastic. And it'd be worth it if you guys come. It is. So please don't leave us hanging.

50:51Kay Ribeiro:It's going to be fabulous. We'll see you on the 8th of August. We will see you on the 8th of August. Make sure you are there and you can book tickets at the King's Place website now. Good. I thought you were going to recite the horrendous URL. Just Google it, honestly. Just Google it. It's a Google. Okay. We'll be back on Monday with Bookish, the Mark Gator show. We will be talking about The Institute as well. There's a new Lena Dunham show, which is too much. And I might even get to talk about Star Trek Strange New Worlds as well. Who knows? Oh, I think you will. I think you'll find the time.

51:24That's my guess.

51:25Kay Ribeiro:It seems likely. Geoffrey D. Morgan and Scott Gimple will be on to talk about The Walking Dead Dead City, as well as Lauren Lyle and Ema Kenny, who are talking about Karen Pirrie. We're all off now to get some lunch. We are hungry. Yeah, you mentioning Karen Pirrie. It's my Pirrie. Karen Pirrie Pirrie. Yeah. Let's go to Nando's. Let's go to Nando's. We're off to Nando's. We will leave you all with a dexterous erection. Violet out.

51:51To be continued...