PLUS How To Get To Heaven From Belfast

0:07Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters. And it is a great day. Why? Because gazing back at me across the wonder that is the internet, because we are virtual in our respective homes, is I believe her name was Kate. She used to do this podcast. I can't remember. Was it Kate? Kate something or other? Hi, Kate. Right. Boydo, what were you on? Like three seconds in already. Already he's pulling my pigtails. Yeah. I should have had a bet on this how long it would take him. Look at him. He's like, also a bit giddy, I'm saying. I am. I am giddy. Giddy both that you're back and that I can mock you relentlessly.

0:43I know. Unbelievable. Anyway, yes, I am back for two weeks. While our comrade, Steph Sealand, Paul Steph Sealand is having her tonsils out. Let's moment of silence, but obviously not great for a podcast form. I mean from her because she can't speak. Yeah, and so, yeah, I've come off the bench. I've been subbed in. You have. You are back, back, back. But we should say, not temporarily. This is not like a one-off appearance. You will be regularly returning until you get bored of us. Well, you say that, James. It's very much going to depend on today's performance from you, I'm afraid. We're going to be judging.

1:15Yes. I shall be on my best behaviour. Right. So you've had one strike already. All right. Thanks, Kate. Right. Let's move on to the show that we are reviewing this week, which is, of course, How to Get to Heaven from Belfast. This is the latest show from Derry Girls' Lisa McGee, and it stars Rasheen Gallagher, Sinead Keenan, Keelan Dunn, and Natasha O 'Keefe as four friends from school who, I was about to say, who reunite, three of them reunite for one of them's funeral, when it all goes a little bit pear-shaped. Only for an old mystery to come back to the surface, and a load of strange happenings to begin.

1:52This is an odd one, actually, because it's a 45-minute drama on Netflix. it is i say drama it's a comedy but it's also a drama but it's a not it's not dairy girl it's not full-on sitcom it's a comedic drama isn't it boydie with a mystery at its heart it's a comedy drama i don't know why you're skirting around it i was trying to avoid the word dramedy which as we all know is a war crime so you know yeah no it's very much a comedy drama it is a comedy drama it has a lot of irish names in it and to celebrate that fact let's turn to kay riparo who will attempt to navigate that with grace and poise.

2:23Okay, listeners, just to give you a little insight, he's such a shit because before we went on, I said, can Boyd lead on this? Because I'm going to struggle. But anyway, here we are, ready for my instant cancellation. Yes. So, I mean, first of all, James, I forgot this is what you do where you basically get the whole synopsis that we haven't got anything to say at the beginning. So I'll just reiterate what James said, which is this is about a friendship group. They're on their way to, as James said, one of their numbers funeral, Greta. And what happened is it starts off 20 years prior where there's a fire, house fire, and the four friends are there.

2:58We don't know what's happened. Someone's inside. They're bonded by this secret and this past trauma and event and by their shared history. And we get the sense that since then, they haven't really stayed in touch until this moment when they get news that Greta has passed away. and then the three remaining uh friends so that is uh Saoirse Robin and Dara they go on this road trip to Donegal um for the wake and so what's brilliant about this is first of all each of them individually Roshin Gallagher who I loved in the dry do you remember how good she was in the dry Sinead Keenan obviously in Unforgotten Keelan Dunn I actually haven't seen what's Keelan been in it's a good question he immediately turns to the wonder that is Wikipedia and says Oh, to be fair, been in Doctor Who.

3:45She was in Andor, two episodes of Andor. Oh, my God. How did I forget that? Come on, James. She'd been in Britannia. She was in Chernobyl as well. She'd been in Ghosts. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Did you say Britannia? Mad Britannia? I did, yeah. Yeah. And A Thousand Blows. Did you say that just now? Oh, I didn't know she was in A Thousand Blows. Yeah, she was in A Thousand Blows. She's a series regular in A Thousand Blows. You should recognise her, considering you love that show. It's a disgrace. Well, anyway, it's a great trio, right? because of the dynamics, is that each of them are completely different.

4:17So we've got Dara, who's like this tightly wound caregiver to her mum, played by Keelan. She gets the sense that she hasn't quite lived the life that she wanted to live, and she's definitely okay with that. Then there's Robin, played by Sinead, and she's an end-of-her-right mum of three. She wants a good time. She's definitely not living the life she wants either. She said she's 34 when, in fact, she's 38. And then you've got Saoirse, played by Roshin Gallagher, who's a script writer dealing with myriad problems with her script and actresses wanting to have their suggestions heeded. Obviously, that nightmare scenario.

4:53So they're three very different friends, but the joy is watching their dynamics. And each of them individually is characters, but that group tension that exists because of this event that's passed that we don't know. It's all about what happened in that house, what happened to Greta, because we've been told she's dead. they're going to this wake but when they get there it's very clear that all is not as it seems and that the family of Greta is in fact batshit so you've got that's my technical term that's the official synopsis from Netflix led by Emmett J. Scanlon in Greta's batshit form and Michelle Bailey yeah yeah it's a it's a great ensemble cast and basically I mean there was no doubt that this was going to be good it's from Lisa McGee we all love Derry Girls but she's totally delivered and as always it's like one of those great ensemble cast as with Derry Girls, which each character is as interesting as the next.

5:43And it's darkly funny. So it's like, it's got that Irish sense of human and sensibility that we loved about Derry Girls, but there's a sinister undertone. It really reminds me actually of Bad Sisters in that way. And also like the music choices again, like Derry Girls, really good. So yeah, I just really enjoyed it. I thought it was great. Yeah, it's, it is so much like the Bad Sisters, but in terms of that, just the pure storyline, you know, part of the fact they're not sisters, but, you know, they're best friends. Bad friends. Bad friends, kind of investigating the death of one of their associates, one of their other friends, with lots of very kind of mad, eccentric people, kind of supporting characters, if you like, and a whole gaggle of them, all played by Brilliant, all cast brilliantly.

6:31Ardlow Hanlon is the guy who runs a dodgy hotel, is hilarious. Tom Badstin's in it as Saoirse's husband, boyfriend, husband, partner, whatever. Father Dougal's in it. Yeah, Father Dougal's in it. Josh Finnan from The Responder and the recent thing on BBC One, whose name I've forgotten, obviously. It's an incredible cast. But what I think is the dialogue is so funny and interesting and intriguing and kind of captivating. The characters are really interesting. I mean, let's face it, Rushing Gallagher's character, that whole storyline of her being an incredible, she's the most successful, writer of the most successful drama on British TV at the moment.

7:12That's her back story. And so I think what Lisa's done, and I will ask her about this when I interview her tomorrow, I'm interviewing her tomorrow. Clang. Is, indeed, for this podcast. It's not like I'm talking about. I'm not doing it for my own enjoyment. I'm doing it. I'll clang when I want to clang, boy. Okay. Anyway, I think she's taken, because obviously she was the creator of the biggest comedy of recent times on Channel 4 and in Ireland. In Ireland, it's one of the biggest shows of all time, Derry Girls, right? So I think she's taken her experiences of becoming a famous writer of a really acclaimed, famous, award-winning show and transplanted them onto Russian Gallagher's character.

7:49So you've got this milieu of showbiz kind of at the side of the whole main story, and she has to go to the BAFTAs, where, by the way, she's interviewed on the Red Carpet. Have you seen this bit? I don't know if this is in episode two or three. Sorry. Where she's interviewed on the red carpet by Scott Bryan. Really? Yes. Shut up. Yeah, no, I won't shut up. Reviewer, whose podcast is one of our competitors, effectively. I won't name it. No, it's fine. It's all fine. Radio 5 Live. He's a Radio 5 Live TV critic and general all-round TV journalist. Listen, we're just happy you're not banging on about the rest of his entertainment.

8:23Oh, indeed. Yeah. Yeah, he's not on that. That is one of the few shows he's not on. And even more than you, he hosts Q &As and everything. so he's a friend of mine but I was like I didn't know I think he's kept it secret I don't know but suddenly Scott Ryan pops up and then I did ask him about I DM'd him about it and apparently he had to go to so they recreate the BAFTAs in the studio in Ireland and the whole thing is shot in line so they didn't even though it looks very much like the BAFTAs are set in London in that bit anyway what she's done with that storyline is really funny and satirical and just all the detail about the star in the first scene where she's dealing with the difficult, eager maniacal star of her show.

9:04All of that is, I love it. This whole show could have just been about that. Oh my God, that was one of my favourite moments. Tracy Ann Oberman was in it as the agent and it's about this actress played by, is it Layla, who's it? Layla Hazard? Yeah, that's it. I've got her name, I'm sorry. From the Billy Piper show. Yes, and it's about her, you know, wanting to make suggestions and like really being quite forceful about it. Yeah, and Lisa McGee, I guarantee Lisa McGee's gone through all of this that she must have done. It's so accurate. It's so to the point. And I've witnessed these scenes before myself as well.

9:36Name and shame. Well, I've got name and shame. Anyway, so I loved all of that. And then you've got these two other characters who are also really interesting in their own right. Anyway, when you see Sinead Keener's character, Robin, you glimpse her with her kids, her boys, her unruly boys. She's like absent mounting fury and frustration with them. And you're like, oh my God, how is she dealing with these fucking three kids? Oh my God, I really felt her. I thought to myself, I would smash my head against the stereo as well. Exactly. So she's such a brilliant writer, Lisa McGee, that within minutes of meeting these characters, you feel like you know them and you find out more about that backstory as it goes on.

10:12And then you've got these juicy supporting characters as well. So I think it's all in the casting is brilliant. They're all perfectly cast. The characters are really interesting. The dialogue is relentlessly funny. and as I said, either it's moving the story on or it's fleshing out the characters brilliantly. And like Bad Girls, there's loads of, the thriller elements. Bad Sisters. It's Bad Sisters, sorry, what did I say? Bad Girls, which is going to be some kind of prison drama. Prison drama, yeah. I was always making that mistake. Bad Sisters, like that, it has got, and it's also set in a kind of beautiful, picturesque bit of Ireland, right?

10:45A kind of fictionalised area of Ireland. It makes me want to go to Ireland. The tourism board will be happy with this. Yeah, it looks incredible. and if the whole show looks incredible by the way that was what i was going to say it's directed by michael lennox who did direct dairy girls but dairy girls the style of it i mean it was very well done and everything but this is much more stylish and like beautifully lit and kind of visually stunning and loads of like amazing shots of of this of this place in ireland etc so i i loved it yeah and it's just and it's got that tone i'll let james speak in a minute it's got that tone right no no keep going okay it's quirky it's full of quirky characters and being eccentric but it never feels like it's spilling too far into I think what James would call silly comedy for me it's not farcical the tone it treads the line brilliantly between being silly and funny and gripping and believable and I think she's such a master of all of that juggling that and getting that tone right that it kind of just works very well it's a it's a very difficult line to walk a very difficult line because this has elements of very heightened quote-unquote silly stuff going on certainly the characterization so keelan dunn's character dara is a bit like orla from derry girls like she's comedically stupid like that's that's one of her things and slightly she is you hate those characters i generally don't like i generally don't like that particular archetype the comedically stupid character that's a note to all writers who are listening all of them dairy girls i actually enjoy those and even here like it's done there's a lightness of touch to that character that even though she falls into that mold it's not overdone like it's quite subtle uh which i think works well also i think with that that character you're talking about dara right yes i think the thing that keeps her grounded as well is her situation with her mom and stuff you know i mean so she's not a lightweight character there's lot is heft to her but i think she fits into the dynamic quite well like they do have i won't i I won't call them archetypes, but they have broad types to them.

12:44Rasheed Gallagher's Saoirse is kind of like, she's not quite a straight character, but she's the less overtly sort of like funny of them. Sinead Keenan does brilliant kind of woman on the edge of a nervous breakdown. Like she's constantly like pushed to her limits and is borderline furious at all times, which is genuinely hilarious because she plays that extremely well. It's kind of like, what's the chopper motherland? Yeah, yeah, completely. Yeah, absolutely. Anna Maxwell Martin. Yeah, she does that really well. but it's so so they are heightened and they're almost sitcom heightened but the story is really compelling and like you get into the first episode it's like okay if her friend if their friend isn't dead you know what happened to her and then there's a whole other mystery that starts to come up which you know as you reference in the prologue there's a house that burns down there's a thing that happened something that sort of united them in their past obviously that comes back to haunt them and all that starts to unravel so it's a really quite gripping storyline plus it's extremely funny so it does work well because i i had my i had my you know i had my neither fish nor foul moment in the first time i'm like is this a drama is the comedy i don't understand these two genres cannot possibly coexist i got over it if you please my head is actually in my hands i'm not allowed to say actually sorry i'll just carry on boy he was about to drop a massive spoiler i was about to do a thing about comedy drama is a genre recognized in its own right by like you know by like the baftas etc like you you know there's a section for comedy drama it's a thing and this is one of those things it's not difficult yes yes can i just note as well that actually this is one of the few times where there's a you know with that starts with a flashback which i didn't wasn't irritated by because they don't constantly go back to it it's just like it sets the scene and then it very much the yeah it moves forward do you see what i mean so rather than going back and forth back and forth in fact we've watched we've well we might be reviewing it might be embargoed something in the near future which does that a lot going back and forth and it just really like well me up because it takes you out of what's going on It can do.

14:33It definitely can do. But then I sometimes find the genre thing can do. Because something like Bad Sisters, which is a comedy drama, but it is a drama with comedy, not a comedy with drama, if that makes sense. The dominant genre there is drama rather than like it's gently funny. And it is funny. So it is. But whereas this, I would say, waits the comedy first. because I think you might be right thank you that's a rare agreement from Boydie because this has this has those kind of like heightened characters and situations which Bad Sisters doesn't have so it's a different weighting but it works throughout and again I think the lightness of touch in the writing and in the performances to be fair is to be commended in this because that's why it works so are we saying that you're able to digest this is this what yes thank god yes I'm going to tell her tomorrow be relieved James is on board with your mix of genres with his genre your genre experiment has got past my strenuous filters do you know welcome back to clown town carry on you've missed it Kay be honest is that another show that starts in the end and goes back to the middle welcome to clown town it does mix genres so James will not watch it definitely more funny than not I think yes so yeah how to get to heaven from Belfast on the Netflix Boydie oh yeah um uh 12th of february so that's um 12th today as this podcast comes out you can watch it now all eight episodes i've seen three of them and i had a good time i can't wait to watch the rest uh and now we pivot to a second review a much much shorter review as befits its subject matter now on the podcast last week i want to say we started talking about the short form mobile drama series So these are around three minutes long.

16:15They're quite heightened, quite soapy. They always are on a cliffhanger. They are aimed at the youth and they are aimed to be watched on mobile because they're shot in a vertical format. And we said, you know what, let's dive into this. Let's take a look. So just randomly, we pulled one of the names that were suggested to us, which was a three minute installment drama called Kissing the Wrong Brother, which is available on that. And we've all done it, yes, which is available on Drama Box. Now, Drama Box is an app. You can download it. I'm pretty sure that it's free, but this is one of these, I believe it's pronounced Duanju, because these originated, I think, largely in China, actually quite a long time ago.

16:54I think it started back on the web in 2002. But you've got a few of these little platforms now, and they specialize in these very short, digestible, bite-sized chunk episodes of these larger narratives aimed at younger people. Now, we talked about this, as I said, last week, and the fact that Queeby, when it launched, tried to do something similar in an American format. But they were slightly longer. They were around 10 minutes each. They had big stars like Rachel Brosnahan. I think Liam Hemsworth was in one of them, or Al Hemsworth was certainly in one of them. CK's listening now. But that died, like Queeby absolutely died on its arse.

17:28Is it because it's a shit name? Do you know what? I think there's a number of reasons why Queeby died on its arse. I think, first and foremost, it was aimed at commuters. so that was the idea that was on your commute and it launched at the beginning of 20 2020 i don't know if you recall but something kind of major happened in 2020 a lot of people were commuting so that was a problem right out the gate i think the other thing was that 10 minute length was ill conceived because it was neither one thing nor the other and you know how much i hate that uh so it wasn't those really short content but it wasn't a proper episode so it didn't so it had it sort of it's one to have its cake and eat it and his feet in both worlds didn't really work and i think the other thing was it was subscription based so you had things like tiktok youtube which were free yet you had to pay to access queeby so it feels like it they had an idea but they fundamentally i think misunderstood the youth audience and didn't really get what they wanted yeah exactly and eventually they did make it free and made it ad supported but by that point it was just too late but they did have good people on it can i just interject and say that's banana crackers unless it's pilot podcast in which case you definitely should continue subscribing absolutely true absolutely true but yeah so that that didn't do well i think it lasted i think it was about six months wasn't it i think uh so here we are seven months i've looked at that seven months after its april 2020 such bad timing uh launch uh and it just yeah it absolutely died and i think roku bought up its uh its back catalogue so you can probably watch rachel boswell and her golden arm there anyway we've got we've got slightly distracted this is drama box and have these sort of short episodes and so we picked an episode as i said of one of these shows uh and we picked kissing the wrong brother i don't know why it may be because it's the only title i remembered from when we talked about it yeah you picked it i picked it i picked it i watched this wasn't a massive hardship it was three minutes long um and my main feeling about this was it was like porn without the sex yeah that's fair enough what was your takeaway from this um yeah it was a bit like that i my first takeaway was that the main actress in it is terrible.

19:24I thought she was shockingly bad. Porn levels of bad, yes. Yeah, I mean, yeah, porn levels of bad. I think they were all quite bad, weren't they? They were kind of all quite bad. And then you think, oh, are they being directed, which I think they probably are, to be quite, to act in a kind of slightly over-the-top way anyway. I think that seems to be the inherent style of these shows. It's got a touch of the telenovela about it, you know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but even more so, even less naturalistic. I think they're kind of like anti-naturalistic in a way, like fantastical fantasy kind of romances.

19:57A bit like, you know, the gay hockey series. Heated Rivalry. Heated Rivalry. I'm obsessed. That show is based on a romantic novel, series of romantic novels written by a woman, famously. And the covers are quite kind of a bit like, if you go to the website of dramabox.com, you'll see all of their offerings have similar visual kind of almost covers, if you like, or title cards for their shows that you get with heated rivalry. What do they look like? Describe it with words. They all look like, they kind of look like swoonsome romances. Mills and Boone. Yeah, Mills and Booney a bit. Yeah. Kissing the Wrong Brother, for example, has a shot of a hunky dude in a swimming pool with a girl and they're about to kiss.

20:40And it looks quite sexy. And you know, Hi there. Yeah. All of that. And then what's weird, right? So the reason I brought up Heated Rivalry is because the acting in that is brilliantly naturalistic. And part of what makes that work so well is they've taken a romantic novel, a genre thing, and they've kind of elevated it, I feel. I'm not saying anything wrong with romantic novels. I'm sure they're great. But the show in its own right works brilliantly because the acting is naturalistic. The dialogue is really clever and smart. whereas these things from what we've dipped we've just dipped a toe into them seem very contrived and over the top and kind of um bad bad yeah that kind of badly done but it almost seems to be part of the whole genre so it's a weird so there's certain things going on if you look at that website right i've spotted first of all um every single one of these shows has like long titles of at least like four or five words so kissing the wrong brother is the one we're doing then you've got through ashes their sorrow awakens right terrible title one is called no escape from the mafia kings embrace love it right one of them this is the maddest one of all it's called pucked pucked i tell you by my brother's rival what does that mean what does that mean again no but it's another brother story but it's just a woman falling in love with the bad brother of the guy the good brother it might even be a sequel to kissing the wrong brother for all i know or whatever but there's another cool i'm nothing but a mortal anyway once you once you look at them you're kind of like this is a bizarro world of i'm just gonna go out on a limb and say i just looked up pucked on urban dictionary i very strongly recommend you don't do that okay i'm just gonna i'm just gonna leave that there oh i'm now gonna have to clear my browser history i'm so sorry oh no um but they but they're all kind of like not quite not as rude and raunchy as you think they should or could be because they are teenagers, right?

22:30They all, like this episode we watched, it looked like porn because the acting was terrible and it was weirdly sexy and she wanders into a room and there's a guy coming out of the shower and she, oh, she trips because she wasn't looking and oh, she falls onto his bare chest and then it cuts away to another scene or she leaves the room when they would then normally start having sex in a porn film. So you are watching porn for the drama but without the porn. All I would say is this is very exposing. you've got better references to the porn because i i was gonna say i don't feel like it's that horny i just think it's like lame like it's like a lame um high school drama of someone fancying someone and like this cliche thing of accidentally bumping into do you know what i mean like it doesn't feel like other things that we watch feel more porny like because they are actually got that sexual content this is just like a pg um bad high school drama i think you maybe you watch this better produced porn is the answer to this because it's just it's quite because she's literally this begins with her walking up to this boy in her classroom deciding that she wants to lose her virginity to him and then oh it's the wrong brother comes out the show i mean it is ridiculous but if you look on the drama box website all of these films shows whatever you want to call them look like porn so for example there's legally sexy and mr ice cold don't know what that means a deal with my billionaire donor there's another one fake dating my rich nemesis watch i'm the lady boss i mean there's there's a lot of this going on here they're all very sexy covers with let's be honest incomprehensible titles a lot of these here's another one house husband question mark try supreme immortal i don't know what's happening yeah what the fuck does that mean right but once you start exploring this the thing it's fascinating yeah it's a whole world the thing is the thing is what i would say is say like i heard about this maybe i mean as you say it was what early 2000s but i only heard about this about a year and a bit ago when someone was talking to me when i was talking about script writing they're like oh listen have you heard of verticals it's the new thing big in china booming industry it's where people are getting into script writing i can see there's a skill like i'm not talking about this particular one we watch because it's it's bad right but i can see there is a skill to like just generally in storytelling of trying to do those three-minute chapters because you have to get everything across and there's got to be a hook at the end, you know, all those kind of things.

24:55So just as an exercise, there is a skill to it. But I think this is doing exactly what it sets out to do, which is like to be – it's like a little dose of trash. And it's Moorish because actually even though it's bad, you're like, oh, it's only like three minutes. Come on, let's get another one. Are you just going to watch them, watch them, watch them? Have you carried on watching – Are you secretly watching them now whilst you're recording this podcast, you're so addicted to them? Yeah, why do you think I occasionally have glazed over and gone silent because I'm dual-screening? But no, I didn't have a chance because I just watched it before we did this.

25:27But I possibly might watch them more. But what's odd about it is the titles. And obviously they're doing it for a way of catching people's attention because I doubt it is sexually explicit. Because also if it's aimed at people watching on transport, I mean, other than James, who is like a dirty perv on public transport watching his X-rated stuff when he was watching Heated Rivalry on the Northern Line. I don't think anyone else is doing that. So it can't really be that sexy, can it? I mean, it could have been. It's definitely a choice, isn't it? It's a creative choice because there's nothing stopping them.

26:00I mean, by the way, I don't think any of us have watched more than, apart from the UK, now you're addicted to them already. But who knows? Maybe if we tune into whatever it is, Pucked by my brother's rival. Pucked? I think James should watch it maybe that has got saucy bits, who knows I dare you to watch all 51 episodes Is Puck the thing that finally breaks James West Wing re-watch loop? We come back to him and he's got like Pucked in the West Wing I mean, I'd watch it Dirtbag This has been an extraordinary I felt very odd watching this not just because it seemed like porn but genuinely I felt like this is a world I don't fully understand in many ways it's the antithesis of what we do isn't it?

26:50We go with premium cinematic television and this is neither premium nor cinematic nor well produced But I think it's not trying to be that sort of thing It reminds me of like Bollywood movies where there's a cultural there's definitely a cultural difference isn't there between the way Bollywood movies are written and acted and made to western films. Even television of like hispanic votes and stuff like that exactly yeah so this feels like one of those it feels like a culturally different thing aimed at a different culture to you know to ours if you like and that we are belatedly discovering but it's massive as we said massive in china etc but i think that's the key that in china probably feels much less of a weird odd thing i'm assuming i'm saying by the way with obviously a profound lack of actual knowledge of any of these things but you know That seems to be the case.

27:42Well, technically, I think it's a squillion-dollar industry, and that's the technical term. All the people in it are white, by the way, very much white, beautiful people. I mean, it's extraordinary. Every single quote's cover of these shows on their website. Well, not all of them. Some of them are clearly, I think, translated from the Chinese. Oh, okay. They might well be. But there's a Chinese company, and clearly they're trying to break the Western market, which is why they've got all these Western-starring shows that they're now pushing out there, because they're trying to crack that market as well.

28:09and fill presumably the hole that Queeby left behind. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you're right. What a terrible name. There's a tranche of clearly dubbed ones that are, yeah. Oh, those could be fun because dubbed is often really terrible. Yeah, that'll make it seem more natural. God. Well, Pucked by Drama Box. How exciting was that? I think that puts that to rest. Okay, right. Time for the post bag.

28:45And we begin with a slightly unorthodox one because I have some questions delivered by a, hang on, checks notes. Kay Ribeiro. Yes. Kate. Okay. Now, listen, I don't want to irritate listeners by getting you to repeat too much, but I have some just very quick rapid fire questions about LA. I just want to ask you, right? Right, sure. So keep it short and snappy, but here are my questions. number one why the hell do they serve up coffee with apple tv plus when they spent billions of dollars trying to get us to call it apple tv it's a very good question and um i think it was a but no one told them even though people were like delighted to have an apple tv imprint on your on your latte or flat wire wherever it was um yeah it was the plus was there yeah that was definitely a mistake but it created a talking point so i'm sure they don't mind i'm sure no one minds when I saw it on your stories, I was like, what the hell's going on?

29:37I think, by the way, the official line from Apple is we prefer you to call it just Apple TV now. They're not just being as strict about it as, let's say, Prime Video is with Amazon Prime, which, by the way, every talent involved in any Prime Video show calls it Amazon Prime. They really need to start worrying about the talent, not us journalists. But the, yeah, the branded latte thing was a shock to everyone. And I got, because I posted that on Instagram on the day. I've got loads of people pointing that out. Yeah. that's the biggest story of the whole event hijacked by the coffee okay some actual listener questions now you will recall that Baha sent in a question last week you missed it Cam I'm sure you're upset but it was about Star Trek we covered it in exhaustive fashion Baha was very very pleased by this she said for Tizashi I'm so sorry for misgendering you on the last podcast thank you for reading the question apologies that this was already discussed on the podcast I know you talked about Trek a few times but I still needed more of a guidance and this was exactly what I thought you'd end up doing with the exact amount of detail provided and i really really appreciate it love that steph is a big trekkie as well i do appreciate all of your opinions um i'm going to start with some of the older films we'll probably watch wrath of khan tonight then continue to next gen then deep space nine there we go so nice she's already begun this this great quest however however however we should say that uh there was another part of her question when she originally wrote in and i I didn't read it out because there was just not enough room.

31:02So we're going to tackle the second part of Pahar's question today. And it was this. It was entitled The West Wing. Yes. Oh, God, James. Oh, Jesus Christ. Can I just say, wait a minute. Look, let me just say this. The first email he picks out is someone congratulating him on giving him good advice. Yeah. And then he then picks out the element about The West Wing. Well, Kay, as you well know, the person in charge of the post bag gets to determine the talking points. And if you can't be bothered to do it, What have I done? You are hoist by your own Picard. Right. Bahar says, during a nasty week of flu recently, I was looking for something to watch with many, many episodes.

31:41And I ended up with the West Wing. And I'm so glad I did. I was a bit too young when it was on air. So this was my first time. I'm on season two, episode five now. And loving it. All that in less than a week of watching. James, now that your sanction is lifted, can you please tell me what eps to look out for? Your favourite characters, favourite season. I have read your write-up for Empire, by the way, and it was brilliant. Yes, of course it was. So for the next 45 to 50 minutes, I shall reel off. No, I'm not going to do that. Instead, I'm going to turn it over to Kay, who is also a West Wing fan, and ask you to answer that question.

32:16James, no pre-warning. I can't do that. None whatsoever. No. Yeah, exactly. I needed at least a day to prepare that. Listen, Baha wants to hear from you. You know that. Just tell her. Come on. uh oh dear where to even start with i mean look best seasons i mean the first four are obviously the best seasons although i have a lot of time for six and seven as well the first four i mean yeah those are the aaron sorkin years right like those are the those are the best seasons without a doubt although as i've said six and seven are fantastic it's just really five that's a bit of a wobble um but yes oh favorite episodes i mean aaron sorkin's favorite episode is 17 people uh but most people would say two cathedrals i would say both of which are excellent um but i'm I'm very jealous that you're getting to watch all of these for the first time.

33:00Like, you know, you're getting to get experienced all that. That's, that's quite a, quite a thing. Well, who's your favorite character in the West Wing, Kay? Come on, tell us that. CJ. CJ is your favorite. That's a good choice. Yeah. CJ's great. Alison J. Yeah. Well, my favorite is Toby, obviously. Of course. Yeah, it would be. Yeah. Of course it's Toby. Yeah. But yes, we love them all. But yes, I hope you enjoy. Baha, please do keep us updated on your West Wing watch. I hope it goes well. from going forward anytime i hear anyone ask you a west wing question right and to be fair i love the west wing as well but just not as much as james i'm going to start issuing your personal phone number so people can just like uh whatsapp you directly well so i don't actually have it with me because someone i believe it was either i think it might have been a dm on uh instagram someone said to me i will gladly pay the entire year's subscription to pilot plus if you promise never to talk about shrinking again.

33:53The backlash starts here, apparently. What? Is this before I left? They said it. Oh, no, he didn't say specifically you. I think he meant all of us. He's banning us from talking about shrinking. You never talk about shrinking. Yeah, it's mainly you and Steph. While you've been off, there's been a lot of shrinking discussion, which, of course, we all know because you listen to every episode. No, no, because obviously we watched shrinking, we reviewed shrinking, we talked about shrinking. Oh, my God, you drive me wild, right? All this time. you asking me about about the LA trip and talking about showing us probably pushed them over the edge probably lost a subscriber there that's true yeah that's it they've gone all this time I've been wanting James to watch it I've wanted to chat about it he hasn't indulged me no we can't possibly we've got to talk about Star Trek and now you're telling me that when I've been gone you and Steph and Boyd have just been banging on about it basically yes every single episode I am livid and that's the reason we did it no we reviewed the most recent third season.