PLUS Last Seen

0:07Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters. and we are going to jump straight into our review of Last Scene on Apple TV+. And that is appropriate because Patrick Bramall, the star of Last Scene, has literally just left the studio. Isn't that right, guys? Oh, he floated out. He did. He floated out on a high of meeting Steph Seeland. He did. And, you know, I think now, Boyd, I think for us, we need to stay some kind of intervention. We are. And really, the issue that we have is Steph's not allowed to do interviews anymore. and I'm sorry, this is the case and the reason is not because, you know, she's bad or anything and not because she showers them with gifts which frankly busts the podcast budget but it's because they like her more than us, really.

0:52That's the problem. He didn't like me. No, he did. He felt bad for me because of the head injury, I think. And then, you know, we had... This happened with Elizabeth Moss. It happened with Anya Taylor-Joy. It happens every time we do an interview, they love you and me and Boydie, chop liver. Who's coming in? Have we got someone else coming in soon? Oh, they probably just want to see Steph. No, no, they don't. They don't. I think they do. But he was an absolute dreamboat and the loveliest man. He was. And you know when everybody wants him to be basically Gordy, right? They want him to be Gordon Crap, right?

1:27They want him to be as lovely as him. From Colin. From Colin from Accounts, right? And he is an even better. He's like the most wonderful man. He's Gordon Plus. Oh, that's such a great way to put it. Yeah, he's Gordon Plus. Such a good job we like this show. Spoiler. Because if we didn't, this would be super awkward. How do you know? Well, that's a good point. Maybe you lied to him. Hold on. I'm just saying I got the vibe from you. Oh, God, this is interesting. This is, oh, we'd kick things up a notch. All right, well, let's get into this. Did we like last scene? Or, you know, we'll be just lying to him when he came in.

2:00No. We'll be giving the impression of, well, let's find out. Anyway, this is last scene. It is on Apple TV+. it is an adaptation a very loose adaptation to be fair on the novel The Dispatcher by Ryan David John I don't know have you read the novel? I've read the synopsis of the novel and it is quite different it is quite different to the show and as we discussed in the interview I think the changes they made were very very smart but we will maybe get into that we'll see but anyway this airs on Aperture very very soon it's written by Chris Merkza and yeah and it doesn't start very very soon it's on already it's on already Yes.

2:33It's on already. Yes. Really, as we go out, that's right, it aired today. Today? The start of today? Yesterday. Yesterday. Yes. Oh, wow. We couldn't review it previously because of embargoes. Yes, it was embargoed. Yes. So, last seen yesterday, is what you're saying. Exactly. Exactly. Okay, well, let's start with Steph, because I don't know where Boyd stands, and I want to prolong the anticipation. The tension. There is a lot of tension, Boyd. Okay, so I think what I have to say first is that I started watching this show, as I told Patrick Bramall your close personal friend my close personal friend Patrick Bramall I started watching the show at 3 o 'clock on Friday and obviously we get the screeners so we have all the episodes I understand they're not all being released at the same time on Apple are they?

3:16No they never are No they never are on Apple as is their model Now I watched 3pm just to confirm 3pm 3pm I started watching it and by 10 o 'clock I'd finished all 6 episodes because I couldn't stop watching it. And not just because we were interviewing him, because it's so propulsive and so unbelievably brilliant. And he is, as we also mentioned, a classically trained actor and he is showing off his wares. You use that phrase a lot in the interview. What does that mean? Exactly. I was going to say, what does that mean? Well, I'll tell you what it means, guys. It means that he went to, I think it's the Victoria Academy of Arts and he's got a bachelor's degree and then he did another year and a half long acting thing and he's trained.

4:06When you say classically trained, does that mean he can do The Odyssey? Yeah, because basically everyone keeps calling him a comedic actor and he's not just a comedic actor. He's not, to be fair, he's not just done comedy. I think because he's been a fairly household name in Australia for about 20 years. He does the moody stuff, a moody Christmas. Yeah, but I think he's really only broken out in the last few years to become kind of internationally recognisable. He did that super, that glitch thing. He did glitch, yes. He did evil, you know, that procedural. By the way, my favourite moment of the interview, I've just remembered, is when you said to him, a lot of people don't know about Colin from accounts.

4:41Yeah. And he was like, okay. No, no. And in this country, that is true. You ask most people, they won't know what you're talking about. And I think like, because again, and we talked about this, I think it's partly because of the title. Anyway. Anyway, right. So yes, it's, oh God, I was so invested in this. So, basically, Ian Ridley's daughter went missing 11 years ago. Ian Ridley is now working. He's a former police officer. He's now working in... This is so weird that they have this over there because I just don't imagine... I imagine all kind of sort of 999 and 911 call centres to just be like big rooms because that's how I see them in all...

5:23Whereas it's a bit like a little office, isn't it? Yeah, it's a little office. So he's like an emergency dispatcher and he has like three screens in front of him. And he's got various things. I don't want to give, we're not going to spoil anything. He's got various things going on in his life. He's a former alcoholic. So he's, you know, he's kind of going through treatment for that. He's got an ex-wife, but really... Shagging a colleague. Yeah, shagging a colleague, which is how it opens. So again, not a spoiler. But really, this is about like the kind of his depth of misery that he's in because his daughter has gone missing.

5:57He's also got an older son. And you find out soon his ex-wife is pregnant with another child. And the body was never found. It's never been resolved. And then he gets this call. And that doesn't happen in the first episode. That happens, I think, in episode two. But this is the premise, it's not a spoiler. He gets a call from someone he believes to be his missing daughter, Max. And that's kind of the whole setup of it. But it's so much more than that. because as you keep going with it, it's about, I don't know, it's a twisted family drama. There's layers to this shit. It's unbelievable. And I think you made this point, James, when we interviewed him, that where you think, oh, actually, probably you, Boyd, want to give credit where credit's due.

6:42Where one of the mysteries is resolved, and they could have left it to the end, they sort of resolve it midway through and then it becomes about something more. it's a more explorative journey and that is really exciting but I just could not in that week I'd watched Devil Wears Prada I'd watched Colin from Accounts I'd watched two episodes of Bluey I had had a Patrick Brammer week you might have over prepped that interview I don't know why you needed to watch Devil Wears Prada 2 I was on the plane I was like oh I'm going to watch I'll tell you why do you know why I watched it because you were giving him shit.

7:22Boyd thought he was miscast. Yeah, you thought he was miscast. And I don't think he is. I think he's really good in it. Oh, no, I'm not saying he's not really good. He's really good at everything. But I'm just saying miscast is different. Funnily enough, Boyd didn't bring that up during the interview. No, it would have been rude. To remind him that. Anyway, the tragedy of this is that I think it's super, super bingeable and you're not going to be able to binge it unless you wait till the last one's released and then binge it all in one go. Because I would have found it incredibly frustrating not to keep going with it because the cliffhangers are really good.

7:54So that's my only thing that I feel sad about this because I think you should just wait till it's all released and then binge the whole thing. And I also want to say that I'm not the only person who binged this. Am I, James? I can neither confirm, I can confirm I did in fact binge the whole thing in a day. Yes, I did watch the whole thing. Because the thing with this show is I had concerns about watching it because I thought it was going to upset me. It's not your bag. It's not my bag at all. It's a really dark, upsetting thriller about a missing child. And I thought, this is going to be a lot.

8:29And I was right. It 100 % was. But it got to the point where at the end of the first episode, there's a little season on, this type of thing, there's a little reel. And after that, I kind of thought, I'll just watch the second one as well because we're always doing an interview. I'll watch the second one. I'll watch the second one. And then I was just like, I am going through absolute trauma watching this show. I was devastated but I had to find out how it resolved because you don't want to suspend the trauma for another week I needed closure I literally needed closure I couldn't agree more so I burned through the entire thing in a day and at the end of it and this is no exaggeration I was a sobbing crying mass on the sofa I was nearly destroyed by it so much so that I literally had to bounce straight out of this and immediately watched the finale to Colin from Accounts because hilariously both of these shows drop in the same week here in the UK just to level myself off emotionally before I could go to bed How are you now?

9:19I'm still recovering from it. It is, I mean, it is a lot. It is a lot. But it's really good in that it does do different things. I think I love what it does with your sense of moral outrage and what it does with your sensibilities. Because, and I'm going to have to dance around this, because from a plot point of view, we really don't want to spoil anything. But nothing is quite as it seems. And it's not a classic bad person does bad thing to good person story. It's much more morally complex than that. I mean, it's not perfect. There are a couple of things where there are some astonishing coincidences that happen in this.

9:56To the point where you're just like, really? Boyd's raised an eyebrow. I mentioned these two, James, before we started recording. Yeah, I mean, there's one bit where a phone call is made from a public phone box. Remember that scene, Steph? Yeah, it's a small town. It is a small Australian town. A really small town. Yeah. It's tiny. Where there's basically two people. And two phone boxes. And they both come together at that point purely by coincidence. And she stumbles out of a really busy party, someone does, and goes to this phone box and someone finds the right person. It's just ridiculous. I didn't find that that unbelievable.

10:37No. I was fully in it then, though. I'll tell you I'll tell you what is the crux of the matter for me is I think it's I don't think there were just a couple of instances of of coincidence I think the whole thing is built around an extraordinary array of coincidences when you think about but it's really hard to talk about it because yes there'd be spoilers but let's just say there are family relationships involved that are so that stretch credulity so much connections between characters they're like so you know know what if that person hadn't done that and that person it's so it's almost like in the dna of the whole concept is that it's lots of people did massively surprising things without telling each other and it turned out there were coincidences all along and it's just but but i'll get to the point eventually in my mind it doesn't matter because it's so compelling and gripping and binge-worthy in all of those things i too ended up watching it at two in the morning oh my god I'd watched the first two ages ago ages ago and then I watched the rest it's so compelling and gripping that it really doesn't matter how ridiculous a lot of this plotting is and I'll be interested about he mentioned we talked about the book and Patrick Merrill said something about she's in the basement she's locked in the basement so the book it's like she has been she's been quote unquote dead for four months so it's really different timescale whereas this has been 11 years and yes she has been kidnapped she's being kept in a basement somewhere it's a very different it's a completely different story really well all I'd say is for me like a lot of the plot points that develop that are I did not buy at all as they're playing out in front of my house I was like she wouldn't do that he wouldn't do that he keeps telling people Patrick Bramwell's character Ian Ridley keeps somehow ending up as part of the investigation right which is a classic trope of all of these to be fair he did used to be the police chief I know even that He used to be the police chief.

12:39His ex-wife is going out with a current cop. And there are the other cops that are brought in to investigate the case. And somehow, he ends up riding along with everyone. They go, yeah, it's fine. You ride along with me. But don't get out of the car. How many times do people tell him, don't get out of the car? And he gets out of the car. He immediately goes out of the car. There's one bit that's so funny. There's slightly doofus as you cop. He goes, all right, you can come along with me. But just don't get out of the car, mate. Don't get out of the car, mate. And he gets out of the car within seconds.

13:04And he goes, mate, mate. And it was funny. That's the strength of his determination. It was as funny as anything, Colin, from accounts. The thing is, though, I do think you're missing the Australianosity of it. I think there is a thread of just... Yeah, I think that sort of thing... It's a small town, they kind of all know each other. They're a bit matey. I think it's just quite, oh, mate, come on, mate. It's very... And I think I bought into that. So did I. I didn't think it was unbelievable at all. Totally, I wouldn't buy it if it was a London copper at the Met. But I thought small town Australia, I kind of got it.

13:37And the fact that everyone's connected, I also got that because by the end of the series, you understand why the connective tissue is there. And actually, the coincidences aren't really coincidences, they're the reasons why things happen. And so you start to kind of make... But you're right, there are still a couple of moments, like the drive-by, you're like, really, would you be there at that exact time? I don't think you would. But small town Australia. Okay, even beyond the coincidence factor, which I still think is massive, is the fact that he keeps doing things that are so stupid. He does, yes.

14:11And he has to keep doing stupid things to enable the plot to end up where it does. But again, I have to emphasize, I absolutely loved it. I loved every, as you say, I completely agree with you. I loved every minute of it. But as I'm loving every minute of it, I'm also thinking, this is insane. He's doing this thing, and then he's doing this thing. But that's so entertaining, don't you think it's still? No, completely. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a massive payoff. I remember the conversation, I probably brought this up tedious a number of times, with Jed McCurie about Line of Duty and I would say to him, because there are moments in Line of Duty that everyone would point out, you know, saying that is ridiculous and they said that to him and I said to him, I think I read him a quote once when I interviewed him from some critics saying, there were so many plot holes and it's absolutely absurd and he got, Jed McCurie was kind of like, the thing is, when you really want to test the boundaries and make it really, really gripping and absolutely massively compelling, you have to get to the point where some people will think you've gone too far.

15:12Yeah. And it's really absurd. And that's what this show does. It reminded me of a Jed Mercurio show in that sense. And first of all, the pacing of it is so thrilling that you kind of almost skip over the things that don't make sense. But then when you sit down and think about it for a minute, you're like, oh my God, it doesn't make any sense. People would never behave like that. And I go that right to the end. I didn't really buy what happens in the end, even, to the kidnapped girl. But it didn't matter because I really loved it. So that's my position. The absurd is what elevates it from actual real life to entertainment.

15:47The fact that it's prepared to go to the absurd and that a lot of viewers will go, no, no, no, this is ridiculous. But, you know, the fact that dares to go there is really in its favour for me. but I think not all viewers will think the same well I tell you what I found really interesting about it from that point of view where I thought people will think the ending is absurd and some of the things happen but I at some point when people have finished this and maybe we do a spoiler special on this I will talk let's get Patrick back let's get Patrick back I will talk about real life crime cases where these things have happened and it seems like they're coincidence I did buy the end by the way yeah it's happened that ending has happened No spoilers, no spoilers.

16:30But I'm just saying, there's about three things that happen in there that I thought, oh, have they drawn on these particular cases, which I won't say what they are, because that happens. I don't simply mean the main thing that I know we're all alluding to. This is so tedious if you haven't seen it, obviously. But I also mean, actually, that whole fight finale. I'm talking about all the different characters and stuff, not just her. I don't think in a true crime documentary you've seen the goings-on that happened in that scene. That's fair. That scene is full of moments. There's a lot happening.

17:01That scene is full of moments that, again, were borderline funny for me. Again, I don't care. I totally went along with it. But I actually say, oh, my God. They're actually all doing these things. And it's really quite funny. So, yeah, those are my issues. Six episodes, we should say. So it's actually a really tight scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like six hours. You can do it in one sitting. You shouldn't, but you can. Do you know what? We've had this conversation before. But I would say this is an example of a perfect amount of episodes. you know how we had that conversation about eight episodes is a bit too long trim the fat make it six really good episodes this does exactly that I'll tell you what even the penultimate episode which is a kind of explanatory one really well constructed really well done and that could have gone on for like two episodes in a normal eight parter as you say but then no it's really really lean the storytelling and it's also beautiful by the way like there are some shots of I mean it's set in this incredibly picturesque isn't it kind of various shots Town Victoria, I think.

17:57Yeah, where he goes swimming with his mate. It's like beautiful. And even the weird house where half of it's set is in an incredible locale. You know, they do a lot of sea swimming. Were you like, I was a little bit... Sharks. Yes. Thank you, James. Literally the first thing. I was like, what are you doing? I know. I meant to ask him about that. Yeah, during the interview. You know, it was... Maybe it's like, you know, because he's Australian, they're like, whatever. They're taking the stride. I forgot to... I really wanted to know whether he did his own swimming. Because he does a lot of swimming in the show.

18:24What do you mean to do your own swimming? You can see him in the water swimming. Did you do your own swimming? Steph, these days they can do things with CTI. You have a swim double. No, there's no way. He can absolutely have a swim double. Really? Of course he could. A swim double? I don't... You see his face and actually him swimming in the water. Don't claim I'm being an idiot when you absolutely guarantee they can have a swim double. In this day and age, they can do anything. And he has to swim quite a long way. He does a lot of... Oh, I see what you mean. so like when they're kind of the drawn back shots and a swim okay no that isn't silly apologies you know what he probably does have a swim double because it's a very good swim wow that is the most extraordinary 180 I have ever seen you've gone from incredulous to absolute agreement now I know what you mean thank you like you know when he's doing the front crawl that's like quite a hard oh yeah front crawl really difficult I can't imagine he'd be able to do a front crawl in open water yeah listen there's someone nearly drowned when I jumped off the boat in Barcelona a couple of years ago No, it's fine.

19:22I didn't really have a good exaggeration. But it's quite, it takes it out of you. Yeah, it does take out of you. The actual sea. Yes, swim doubles. It's the actual sea that I'm talking about. If you are a swim double, get in touch. Swim double. This has gone in an unexpected direction. Last scene, not last sea, but last scene, and that is on Apple TV Plus now, because it started yesterday. Exactly. Well, I had one finder question, which again, I meant to ask you, which is, I think if this does really well, it's bound to. I think they'll want a sequel as well. I think they'll want an answer. Find out what he's up to, Ian Ridley.

19:53Yeah. Yeah. We shall see. Anyway, let us move on to this week's postbag.

20:05Triage. It's the postbag. Now, as we begin this postbag, I should say, I did solicit questions about the pit, and there are a few of those, so we will address those at the very end. The Pit Pit or My Immersive Experience The Pit? I mean, either. Okay. Both? Are you referring to it as My Immersive Experience The Pit now? Yeah. Steph's like, Steph did like Secret Cinema Pit, but you know, and hasn't been able to prove it. When I told Patrick Brownell that whole story, he was like, yeah, it is. It's like The Immersive Experience. You told him the whole story. He asked me. I wonder what was happening in the gap between.

20:41Do you know what? He came straight in. He came straight in and he basically put his hand on my thing and he went, what happened there, mate? He touched your forehead. He went, what happened there, mate? And I was like, well, I wasn't going to mention it. And I was like, well. I mean, you have got literally a plaster. And then he said, and then I showed him the pictures. And he was like, and then he was like, I love a scar. That's what he said. It was great. Wow. It's a great topic of discussion. Yeah, it is. Anyway, postbag. Postbag, yes, postbag. Let's begin with one for Steph. And it says, hello, long time listener, but need to say that Steph is the most hilarious presenter in any podcast going.

21:20Her American story was gold, but ultimately, it's just pure hits. Love James and Boyd as well, but kudos to her. From Alan. Oh my God, we're going to get even more of these. I know. Here's the Patrick Bramall. We'll get one from Patrick. Oh, Paddy, Paddy as we know him now. I'm sure we'll be writing in to talk about Steph all the time. Oh, thanks, Alan. I'm just, what I'm getting is, I'm just very Marmite. People either like me or they absolutely despise me and want me dead. You are famously hateable, Steph. Yes. Another Steph-related one. This comes from Mike. My 20-year-old daughter did a Steph a couple of months ago, but fortunately chose this country to do it in.

21:58She fainted in the toilets of Charing Cross Station while on lunch break during her first day of work experience at a TV production company as part of her university course. She belted her mouth on the porcelain, knocking out one tooth and breaking another. £4 ,000 later, she finally has a full set of teeth again. Unfortunately, the TV production company told her not to bother going back in again, which hurt her more than the toilet mishap. That is outrageous. They told her not to come back in again. Name and shame. Go on, write in and name and shame the production company. That is really mean after she'd had that injury.

22:30That is horrible. That is really nasty. Can I just say, Apera of nothing, Zoe Ball just waved at me from the other side of the clock. You and your celebrity fans. Wow. New greatest, it's radio presenter Zoe Ball. Yeah, there are Zoe Ball balloons around the office. Yes. Is she new? Is this a new thing? She started yesterday. there was a free food I thought you would have been there actually I would have come all the way in oh look and Simon Mayo is now waving at Boyddy from the other window what is going on here just saying hello to all my radio friends Jesus anyway back to this poor guy what's her name he did not share her name oh that's really sad I'm sorry that happened and I'm sorry you had to spend £4 ,000 and I hope you've got at least it wasn't £33 ,000 yeah that's true but still well okay did a Steph it's now in the national lexicon you did a Steph okay Okay, Stuart says, just to say, Shirley Bassey would be rolling in her grave at Boyd describing her as the late great if she was dead, of course, which she very much is not.

23:29Boyd, you did not describe her as the late great. I killed off Shirley Bassey. You killed Shirley Bassey. Why would you do that? And do you know what the stupid thing is? Is that, first of all, apologies to anyone listening who's related to Shirley, the great dame Shirley Bassey who's very much still with us. I went to see a big show she did a few years ago, so I don't know why. and even as I was saying it I was like it's just I wasn't really saying it as a thing I was just kind of using that phrase because because Lulu took part in that James Bond concert I was talking about and actually when I was looking at the details I was thinking I wonder if Shirley Bassey could have done it knowing she was still alive and yeah I said great on this show she's the second person I've killed us I was just about to say this is becoming a bit of a trend we went to Shirley Bassey together do you remember?

24:10you took me yeah it was really really good that was like a long time ago I think that must have been about 10 years ago actually but you're either killing people off or yeah what's going on I feel bad you should feel bad I do feel bad diamonds are forever and so is our show yeah she absolutely is yeah so apologies thank you I've got a few I had a few messages I can imagine informing you a few DMs shall we say from people saying yeah she's very much still with us Shirley herself telling you she was still alive not as far as I'm aware but you know okay Please, God, have she done this as a podcast.

24:47Message here from Mike. And Mike says, I was preparing to go full the stat on James after his Reacher review. You go for Jack Reacher, you go for me. But after watching episode six, I've come to the conclusion that this series is utter pants. They've made Reacher on the spectrum and the acting is awful. Have they made all the background actors small so that Reacher sticks out more? In the last episode, Jacob had a nasty cut on his neck and was covered in blood. Five minutes later, it was gone. I've read every Reacher even the recent ones I know I'm not reading Shakespeare but it is an easy to read style the latest season has dumbed it all down further so apologies to James for ever doubting him on another note I'm surprised you didn't review The Airport Chaplin on Netflix with Hugo Weaving and Shabana Aziz from The Pit a totally unexpected pleasure Mike brackets not Steve yeah I only found out about that I've actually been off an interview with him that is true both of them together both of them together well we should watch it then it was a victim watch it that was a victim of I'm not oh god don't if you say it don't don't get the haters involved I'm not going to be a killer go on what was it a victim of no no no we have to decide very early what we're doing for reasons is this code for I didn't put it on the calendar no it's code for I always ask oh it's your fault I always ask yes it is because my okay okay let's go we're having a out okay right we're just talking about how we haven't had an argument.

26:16So, basically, Boyd, because my main job is not like TV extraordinaire, like Boyd Hilton, who has to watch TV constantly and is able to sit at his desk and watch television. As the creators intended. Right. And you can do that as well. That isn't my main job. My main jobs are on heat and crime. Solving crimes. Right. So I can't do that. So I need to do that in my own time a little bit earlier. So I always ask Boyd, in the week a time he does not like what shows we can do and he gets very cross because he's I don't get very cross it's just I just blame you I just blame you I just blame you it is your fault as they say well I'm going to say now no no no I'm joking but for example there are two shows this week one show starts on a Sunday particularly so I only found out yesterday there were two big shows that start on the Sunday of the week we're doing which we probably embargoed anyway but I could have at least but yeah I'm going to give you one late pass okay so one pass out of the three if we can have one late pass and then you can tell me on it has to be like Monday late night or Tuesday enough to get screeners and then we can do that okay so let's not fight anymore I love you that's a good solution okay okay moving on a message here from Martin Martin says hello all thank you for the entertainment I wanted to get your opinion on Sky automatically automatically downloading shows to my TV without me requesting it.

27:45This happens infrequently, but it has happened a few times, the latest being with the first two episodes of The Terror. I can only think this is a way of Sky pushing a show that they feel might need some help and are hoping the viewer who sees the show in their recorded list might be more inclined to watch it in their own time rather than watching it at the broadcast time. My question is, do you think this is a legitimate promotional technique for shows? And also, do you think my unrequested download will feed into their official figures for the show. This is fascinating because I have never heard of this before.

28:15Oh, my God. This is fascinating because now I know I'm not insane. Does it do that automatically? So it would say. Do you know how many times I've looked on my records and gone, I don't remember recording that. I don't remember recording that. Because I didn't. No, it wasn't. No. Yeah, no, it does happen. I think if you watch a certain type of show often enough, so I get they record Premier League football matches for me oh that's actually just handy they don't do that for me I have to un-series link it all the time because I haven't seriously linked it and those take up those go on for hours as well they take up quite a lot of dis space in my Sky Q you are the real victim here I am the real victim here but it is the thing it does yeah it does I think it learns I think it's you have to watch a certain amount of a certain show and then it will start recording it of its own will that is fascinating and also naughty it is naughty I don't think it affects bar because Barb isn't measured that way.