PLUS Life, Larry And The Pursuit Of Unhappiness, with Rivals spoiler discussion

26:01First of all, can we just send, we're sending our love to Rachel and Atticus if they're still in hospital.

26:05Kay Ribeiro:Yes, yes indeed. Do you know what? Currently, I'm just watching the stuff I need to watch for work and in between, if I get any time, then I'm watching easy watches because my brain is shutting down in this heat. I think I've talked about this endlessly last year. My flat is like a greenhouse. People now refuse to come. They're like, we can't, we have to meet down on the ground because I'm the third floor. The heat rises. It is unbearable. You wouldn't put your worst enemy in here. So yeah, if I watch anything, I have to watch comedy, which is not unlike me anyway, but something untaxing. So for example, I too have been spending recently a lot of time in hospital and I came back one day and I just needed something easy to watch.

26:46And so I ended up watching, it's not a comedy, I ended up watching, is it called The Taste for Murder? ITV, Warren Brown? Oh yeah, Taste for Murder, yeah. and you know it's just very easy going set in I think Italy crime I wouldn't call it cozy crime but just you know continental crime yeah

27:11so that's anything that's easy and I don't have to think too much about currently

27:16Kay Ribeiro:Boy did you watch do you like slap on the most recent series of True Detective to watch something set in the snow does that help absolutely yeah just Alaskan based TV shows. I know I find the whole idea of watching a icy, cold TV show would exaggerate the contrast between the reality of the heat right now and the show. So I think it's a really off-point suggestion. Yeah, I would rather watch The White Lotus set in a hot climate anyway than, you know, there's heat in the TV show and there's heat in real life and it's all fine rather than... That's crazy. No, reminding of icy sec old blinds. No, that doesn't work for me.

27:59No. Tomorrow, by the way, this is off topic, I'm going to the theatre. You're going to broaden your juices. Oh, my God, I'm drinking it because I don't believe - A theatre is air conditioned. No, not in this fucking country. They are on Broadway, of course, everything in America. But I don't think they are, no. It's going to be 37 degrees tomorrow. Why haven't they cancelled it? why haven't they cancelled it I temporarily offered my services to go with him and I was like what am I thinking you're like actually fuck that no you're going to liquefy they should postpone it it's too much or you don't like a Victorian lady I'd like you to take a hand fan just like yeah definitely flick it open theatrically

28:36Kay Ribeiro:or use a copy of the programme whatever you want and just sit there fanning yourself liberally yeah yeah might take in a full electric fan you can't do that or Rosamund Pike will just stand and she'll call you out from the stage she will yeah she will put your t-shirt in the freezer if we go and then just shove it on is that a thing you can do could you freeze clothes i don't think it would last the journey from my flat to uh on the northern line yeah to my uh incredibly first world uh heat related tv problem is that i like to have the the the windows open so so air comes in but then when it gets late you you have kind of a sophie's choice where It's like, do I leave the windows open, but keep all the lights in the place off?

29:20Kay Ribeiro:Or do I turn on the lights and close the window? Because as anyone knows, especially if you live in the country like I do, you kind of have the lights on and the windows open, or you will be inundated with insect visitors. That's your way of saying it. I say bitten to buggery. Yeah, exactly that. So I try not to, I don't, that upsets me. And you'll see them flying in constantly. I'm like, fuck, fuckity fuck. But I don't like to watch TV in the dark. It's either putting up a net curtain, which I imagine you would hate. I would not do that. Or lighting a citronella candle. Really? Or some sort of flamethrower position near the window.

29:51Yeah, or just get your blowtorch out.

29:52Kay Ribeiro:Yeah, just stop flaming them out of the air. I could do that. That might work. Seems like a James kind of hobby. I've made it very clear mozzies are not welcome in my house, but they pay absolutely no attention. I always get bitten by mosquitoes, like sweet blood or whatever. But yeah, that is an annoying problem. Yeah, there you go. That's my heat-related issue. What's the TV show you watch, though, in the hot time? I don't think the temperature really affects my viewing habits. I've got to be honest with you. Generally speaking, no matter what the weather, I will either be re-watching something wildly inappropriate, which annoys the two of you, or I will be just plowing through.

30:24Kay Ribeiro:I mean, heated rivalry in this weather. I mean, it's sweaty enough to begin with. The less about that, the better. Yes, the temperature doesn't tend to affect my viewing. I don't watch cold or hot shows. I just watch the shit I have to watch. and enjoys it and so say all of us speaking of which we have a message from Tom here and Tom says I've just finished Widows Bay how on earth did this ever get a negative review brilliant from the jump and comfortably one of the shows of the year justice for Steph yes yeah I think this should be a thing right James while you're fighting off the mozzies with your blowtorch get onto Widows Bay complete the whole thing and then with the agreement that if you have changed your opinion you're going to issue an apology to Steph and every single listener by name.

31:14I would say that you also have to walk to work and people can shout shame at you.

31:18Kay Ribeiro:I have to walk down Shaftesbury Avenue naked while Steph walks behind me ringing a bell going, shame, shame. I don't think Steph should be made to walk behind you if you're naked. That is an ultimate punishment for her. And you don't have to have a bell because you've got the bell end on display. So I think you should just have a letter T for twat, worn around your neck, silver and S, and it's all good. Really? That's all I need to do. Okay, noted. You can have WB written on your head. That would be good. We're getting it heavily into it. Even Kate doesn't get the acronym there. Like a Widow's Bay brand.

31:52Kay Ribeiro:Well, like the Yellowstone brand, but I get branded with a WB. WBW, Widow's Bay wanker. That's it. Yes. Oh, God. Well, let's see how this goes. I have yet to revisit it, but, you know, maybe. Maybe we will find out very, very soon. this comes from Marek and Marek says given the largely positive response to the Yellowstone chat save for the odd party pooper why don't you record a series of specials where you can chat about the shows you've been forbidden to mention and just get it all off your chest James can wax lyrical about the West Wing and the Expanse Boyd can ask all his celeb mates to come in and chat about Curve and Seinfeld and Steph can unburden herself with other true crime documentaries and Murder She Wrote episodes once she's finished watching all the Yellowstone spin-offs you can even bring back Terry for some one-off special chats It's about SVU.

32:38Kay Ribeiro:Go on. You know you want to. I think that's a great idea. A sort of wind tunnel, if you like, where you can just shout into it. And if listeners want to tune in, they can. How about it? I mean, it feels like it's almost like it's like cathartic therapy, isn't it? It's like all the stuff we've been banned, we just kind of ring fence off and put in a separate episode. Didn't we do that? I'm fairly certain we actually did do a West Wing special on this podcast. Because you don't remember, like, Terry came to the West Wing really late. Oh, yeah, yeah. And she watched it all, and then we did a West Wing special just to talk about the West Wing.

33:09Kay Ribeiro:But surely that wouldn't be banned. That's not a banned show. Maric's talking about shows that we're just not allowed to talk about, right? Or just a bit with the pilot brief. Oh, no, no. I think he means stuff that we've been banned from talking about for overexposure. Yeah. Oh. Okay. Apologies. Apologies. That's okay. Yeah. That's okay. Boyd, he's Seinfeld special, winging its way to you very soon. Yeah. But I think probably that, as far as that letter email is concerned, letter, he'd probably be the only person who would welcome such a thing. I imagine people would be up in arms, wouldn't we, if we suddenly spent our time, our precious time going through yet more West Wing trivia.

33:49It is true.

33:50Kay Ribeiro:I mean, given the amount of abuse I got from, to be fair, very small people. There's a very small number of people giving me Yellowstone abuse. I cannot speak to their height. But a very small number. But they're surprisingly enthusiastic in their criticisms. someone's saying, can't you go back to reviewing television? It's like, that's, that's, you know, it's a show. Like, it's allowed. It's within our remit. It's definitely - You've really divided our audience, haven't you? I have, yeah. I've massively divided people. You've got, you've really alienated half of them, absolutely furious. And the other half are kind of delighted and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

34:20It's interesting. Yeah.

34:23Kay Ribeiro:Weirdly, it's been split. It's been split on gender lines. So every person who has complained has been male. Every single one. Wow. I believe. Actually, I think there might have been one female complainant. Apologies. But almost all of the people who wrote and say they loved it were female. So maybe it's split on gender lines. Yeah. We'll have to look into it. It's the Rip Wheeler effect. Anyway, sorry. What I'm doing here now clearly is talking about Yellowstone, which I've been banned from doing. So we move on now to a message from Chris. Hi, Pilot Gang. First, I have to say I am pretty gutted that Doctor Who has apparently been put out to tender.

34:55Kay Ribeiro:I've recently been revisiting a lot of the Eccleston, Tennant, and Smith era episodes, and the quality difference really struck me. There are obviously exceptions in the recent run, 47 Yards was genuinely excellent television, but it was barely even a Doctor Who episode. It felt like the best episode of a completely different show. Going back and watching things like The Empty Child, Human Nature, The Family of Blood, Vincent and the Doctor, etc., it's hard not to feel that the show has lost some of the magic that made it such an event. I know that the Disney money has dried up, but episodes like Blink and Midnight were not massive spectacles.

35:24Kay Ribeiro:Midnight could have been filmed in my garage. Maybe a break and a fresh start isn't the worst thing in the world. to get a new team and a new focus. And then he goes on to say, which brings me to casting, and he has some thoughts on casting. He says, I've got two names I'd like to throw in the ring for the next Doctor. One a complete outsider, one a more established choice. For the outsider pick, Danielle Jam. I'm guessing none of the pilot team have spent much time watching the revival of Balamori, but as the parent of a preschooler, I can confirm I've seen all 15 episodes approximately 4 ,000 times.

35:56Kay Ribeiro:Danielle Jam absolutely has the slightly manic energy, intelligence, and unpredictability I think the Doctor needs. For the star pick, however, I would go with Chris O'Dowd. He's obviously hilarious, but I think people sometimes forget what a strong, dramatic actor he is as well. His Black Mirror showed he can handle much darker material when needed, plus Doctor Who is often at its best when the Doctor feels like someone who can make you laugh one minute and break your heart the next. Yeah, he'd be good. He's a good shout. By the way, how many yards did he say that episode was? I believe he said 47.

36:28Of course, it's 73. Yes, it's 73 yards.

36:31Kay Ribeiro:Presumably that was an attempt to convert it to the metric system and it went badly wrong. I just think one of our listeners would be up in arms not getting the number of yards right in the best episode. Especially you getting it wrong. They might think they can't trust you're writing the book. I do understand what they're saying about it seems like it's the best episode of a completely different show. But Parmy thinks that that's one of the things that must be very appealing for a writer and indeed a showrunner with Doctor Who is that there's an elasticity to Doctor Who that allows you to do just something wild and different every week.

37:02Kay Ribeiro:You're not kind of constrained. It's not like you're writing Riviera, do you know what I mean? Where you're very, you know, I don't know why I picked that particular show. Oh my God, why did you choose Riviera? I do not know. But where you have a very specific sort of like narrative sort of like channel to go down. Doctor Who gives you like the entire universe, all of space and time as a playground to have wild adventures and crazy ideas. And I think Russell kind of made the most of that. Yeah, completely, yeah. There are also challenges within that, yeah, because within that, the freedom almost gives you lots of challenges you have to overcome.

37:32But yeah, 73 Yachts was certainly absolute evidence of that, for sure. And there were other episodes that had limitations or the time with the actor was they didn't get much time to his shooty, et cetera, because he was finishing off sex education. And they led to some really good episodes. Yeah. So it's a kind of truism, isn't it, about this kind of TV that bottle episodes, or whatever you want to call them, or episodes written because there's no budget and you have to save money often end up being the most satisfying ones. Yeah, they force you to be creative.

38:03Kay Ribeiro:72 yards, incidentally, is just under 66 metres. 73 yards. 73 yards. 73, oh, God damn it. The yardage is going this way and that. In which case, it's 66.7 metres. Okay, close. Which is a less catchy title, I'm saying. Just be throwing that out there. Marginally. Marginally, okay. My final point on the Doctor Who putting out a tender thing is, yes, I mean, someone somewhere, and we don't know who it is. Yeah, we may not find out for a long time. Someone somewhere is going to come up with a brilliant idea for how to take Doctor Who further and to, you know, and we just have to wait and see who that is.

38:38I think it's exciting. Are you bankrolling it? Yes. Me and Netflix are going to do a coke fight. And, yes, Larry David will be the next Doctor Who. Can you imagine? Wow.

38:50Kay Ribeiro:Yeah. One joke per season, presumably.

38:56Kay Ribeiro:We have a message here from Guy, and Guy says, and he's coming at me, of course he is, as James has now reverse ferreted on the world of the Duttons, is it possible that he can consider the show that dare not speak its name upon pilot? Namely, Clarkson's Farm. After all, it is set in a similar milieu, the humour arises out of natural situations, apparently the only way comedy can occur, and you couldn't watch the first three minutes of season five and claim it isn't cinematic television. But above all, the understanding of story structure is superior to a lot of the shows you do review and certainly infinitely better than anything Marvel or Star Wars have considered good enough this decade.

39:33Kay Ribeiro:It may not start with a script, but the programme makers, to use Andrei Tarkovsky's phrase, sculpt in time so successfully it demands re-watching and ensures Clarkson's Farm will still be in the prime top ten months after A Rings of the Lord has come and gone. Come on, James, it is your new binge. is that guy basher brasher guy brasher yes indeed i recognize these names from the post back um i listen i know i'm not allowed to talk about it but i watch clarkson's farm and i enjoy it i know i do i enjoy it i've learned a lot about farming and uh what have you learned give us a tip give us a farming tip well basically farmers are being treated by shit like by the government and they're really struggling.

40:17But yeah, I would recommend it. Well, not to pilot listeners because I know they'll be all angry that I'm bringing this shit to their table. But for anyone else, family members, friends, it's an enjoyable watch. It is an enjoyable watch. And I used to really hate Clarkson. And look, he's objectionable in loads of different ways, but he's not the only person on the show. And there's really great characters, knowledgeable people, passionate people, about the countryside and farming. And I think it's one that you can watch with the family and learn a lot and find it entertaining. So I stand with Guy, unless Guy was being sarcastic.

40:53Couldn't quite work it out. No, no, he's definitely not being sarcastic. No, it's a highly acclaimed show. People love it, yeah.

40:59Kay Ribeiro:Boydie, do you watch Clocks and Fire? I am very, very, very Clocks and averse. I get it. I do get that. But having said that, I've watched a few episodes, and it's very well done. It's very well put together. And he's been very good about his recent cancer diagnosis, and he's been very public about it and talked about encouraging men of my age to get tested prostate examination, et cetera. Which, no, they don't – Kay was making a physical – Yeah, I think she was making a call back to the thumb-up joke from early on. I was actually going to say about the thumb-up, and I thought, don't be inappropriate.

41:36You haven't been on for a long time. You won't get cancelled now. It's fine. It wouldn't have been good. It was fine. But you made the gesture and we... You did, you did. In an audio medium. To the boys. Yes, just to the boys. As Clarkson crucially pointed out, you don't need to have that done now. They can do it through. Oh, right. Blood tests, et cetera. See, informative. That's why it's important to us. So if nothing else, his rallying cry about that test is very important. Yes. And the show itself, people love that show. Absolutely. And also lending his voice. I know a lot of farmers will hate him, but I think lending his voice to their cause, you know, they went to parliament.

42:11and I think it's helpful to amplify this Do you know what now I'm thinking of more Clarkson related programming but I do because I really like Who Wants to Be a Millionaire so when he took over that right from Chris Tarrant I was furious because I was like Did you stop in process? Did you stop watching? A little bit but now every now and then I watch it back and I watched one recently where the contestant honestly was so terrible she was absolutely shockingly stupid and he did not hold back that's the funny thing he actually he actually was like you are awful at this game why have you applied to take part why don't you know anything about trivia and it was like she had to name there was three things that were cheese and one thing or something so incredulously obvious and he was absolutely hilarious about it I have to give him credit for that can I just say one last thing about Blossom's Farm because I said it to a friend the other day because I'd just been catching up on it and what's interesting is and it's related to your point you just made is that Caleb his farm hand is can sometimes say things that maybe are a bit daft and they recently well in the episode that I watched they went to the Netherlands maybe somewhere anyway so Cade was asking all these questions because he's never been abroad before and he was asking quite basic questions and I was fully expecting Clarkson to be in full-on sneery dickhead mode and he wasn't and I don't know if maybe the production team have said to him not to and or but he doesn't strike me as someone who's can be corralled or you know talk told how to behave but he had he was just so you know like kind basically and I really appreciate i thought oh okay maybe he's um evolved yeah i think he's evolved is a complicated character james aren't we all babes yeah i i must uh i must confess guy it's deeply unlikely that

43:50Kay Ribeiro:i'm going to start binge watching clarkson's farm i'm so sorry what would you rather watch larry or clarkson's farm oh clarkson's farm 100 like larry's actual torture to me i think i would i do you know what do you know what and i and i say this without even trolling boyd if you were to say to me you have to watch an entire season of shrinking no no no no no no see ck what you're doing there is you are you are setting the bar way way way higher than it needs to be if you were to ask me that i had to watch the great fucking pottery throwdown and i had to watch an entire season of that or five episodes of larry david i would take the fucking sewing like any day of the week okay well what i would say is if you're going if you're watching the pottery throwdown you're not going to see any sewing my angel but oh it's a good point i think because have I misunderstood the pottery show?

44:37I think so.

44:38Kay Ribeiro:In my head, I nearly said the Great British Sewing Beat and then I switched at the last minute to pottery throwdown. You're mixing up your crafty shows, you silly boy. Either one of them, both of them. In fact, you can combine those two shows and have a very exciting, I think, like, for example, trying to sew while using a pottery wheel would be challenging. No, that would be hard. One would think, or with clay on your hands. Who knows? God, it sounds like a recipe for disaster. Perhaps an idea for a new show. I'm just throwing that out there. get in touch you do Lambert you just want to reenact the ghost scene don't you I do yeah that's it there's been too many awful like sort of images presented to us today yes James offering himself up naked with Steph walking behind ringing a bell yeah sorry Steph and now this ghost scene yeah it's all gone a bit unfortunate anyway let's move on I think that if nothing else has called an end to the post bag so if you would like your question read out on this podcast or indeed the main podcast that email address again is postbag at pilot tv pod dot com i am i would say more sweat than man at this point but we're going to press on why because we have a spoiler for you this week yes we do we have a spoiler for rivals season two specifically rival season two part one as we still have a while to wait for part two of that show uh If you haven't yet seen it, then by all means do stop the podcast here.

46:01Kay Ribeiro:But if you have seen it and you are fine with the spoilers and presumably the shagging that awaits ahead, sound the alarm. And let's press on with Rivals Season 2 Part 1. Who wants to kick off this discussion, which I will have very little participation in? Well, it's all about the sixth episode, the mid-season finale. By the way, I saw something the other day, like normies as you call them discussing what mid-season finale was pogs yeah people on the ground did you see this there was what was that on it was on a must have been a podcast or something yeah people were confused by the and very american terminology because oftentimes with network shows they would have a pause halfway through the season of a show and so you would have a mid-season finale in the streaming era it is unorthodox do you think we should limber up to episode six because that's a question though.

46:50Well, I'm diving straight. I'm diving to the...

46:52Kay Ribeiro:This is a terrifying insight into your lovemaking technique. Foreplay is so important. Please do start with some discussion of the other things before moving on to the main event. Be a conscientious lover. This is you quoting that guy from off campus, isn't it? God, I don't know what's happening. Do you not think the heat is getting too much? It is the heat. The heat has become physical and metaphorical. I'm going to take hold of the situation. Shall I start talking? okay let me let me begin right so i think um that this series was even like ruder and raunchier than the previous one it really sort of like leans into if not like just totally face down in the joys of the 80s right the music the fashion is which we've come to expect um but i just i just thought it was XXL.

47:44It was bigger and bolder than before, culminating in, as Boyd has referred to, a deeply moving, stunning sixth episode, which we'll come to. But yeah, I just love, there were so many great moments and set pieces and references to the 80s. So starting with the chicken song from Spitting Image. Did you love that? Yeah, absolutely. It was a montage. They love a montage in this show, by the way. Yeah, so a raunchy activity put to inappropriate music. Oh yeah, because episode one or series one began with the Concord scene. Yeah, right. The sex in the bathroom. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I really enjoyed the sort of like, it's a knockout style TV show, which they called - Now you're going all over the place, because that's not until, that's like episode four or five, isn't it?

48:35But yeah, that was really funny. Yeah. I'm talking about 80s, like specifically 80s references and moments, you see. Do you think it matters? Do you need to know, because it is very It's a Knockout, do you need to know about It's a Knockout to get what they're getting at with that? Because I think if you didn't, I was sitting there thinking, if you didn't have no idea about It's a Knockout, which for younger listeners was an unbelievably successful and popular game show format that basically involved people being humiliated in physical games, like thrown into giant swimming pools and jumping on bouncy castles.

49:12It was like incredibly cheap and quite tawdry. And tawdry, not in a horrendous way, but it was just a unique piece of television. And I wondered if your enjoyment of that, it's kind of pastiche of it that is in the episode five, I think it is, your enjoyment of that would increase massively if you're aware of the actual real it's in, which then there was a royal version. I think this was also do you remember it's a royal knockout oh my god yes what was the difference minor royals were taking part yeah and I think hang on what royals took part on it's a knockout they did okay I'm going to look it up wait a minute

49:49Kay Ribeiro:okay this I need to know oh it's it's one of the most incredible I used to watch it's a knockout when I was a wee nipper yeah so did I everyone did okay I can tell you go on the captains included Prince Edward he kind of arranged it didn't he Prince Edward do you remember at the time he was like a TV producer of some kind kind of you know and i think he arranged this thing but yeah carry on everyone's worst prince prince andrew uh it had sarah ferguson and princess anne who is actual it is kind of a legend so yeah it had those um four um apparently queen elizabeth and prince philip reportedly disapproved of the idea um and king charles uh forbade princess diana from take apart i mean that's just on the internet I can't confirm or deny.

50:36Yeah, it was quite a spectacle, wasn't it? It was extraordinary, yeah. And you had people like, it was star-studded because you had like Barbara Windsor was there, Rowan Atkinson took part, John Cleese, had really good people involved because it was, I guess it was all for charity. Yeah. It's like, oh my God, I'm just really looking through it now. Christopher Reeve was there. What? Yeah. Yeah, it's one of the most incredible moments in British broadcasting history. I'm suggesting from the vault. Yeah, it must be on YouTube. I've definitely seen clips of it. I think there was a book, or there was a whole big in-depth, because it is so extraordinary.

51:14But anyway, I do think that was partly what they were getting at with the episode of Rivals, where it was two lots of posh, semi-famous people taking part, which was absolutely brilliantly done. And the ending of the episode, where the tapes go missing, is genuinely devastating. That sums up the brilliance of this show, right? So you can have a whole episode, which is mostly about an It's a Royal Knockout style madcap thing. Quite frivolous. Frivolous. And you think everyone's into the spirit of it. And then the ending is a massive blow because the evil bastard has somehow managed to nick the tapes.

51:51Yeah. And it's really clever. That was really, because you really care. You're like, oh my God, no, but you want this to go. I was devastated. When he's like, you know, and I was like. because you that was very well done because there was some I don't know about you I was like I was in some doubts to the extent to which he was Tony was behind that and then when he does that yeah was that naive of me yeah I was like it might be someone else no I just I just thought if they've gone missing there's only one nasty bastard who's got them that's Tony yeah it's got him written all over it so okay let's go to episode two then the The Sarah Stratton dinner party and the farce, like, you know, that piece of theatre.

52:31I really, really enjoyed that. And I loved it even more when I found out it was done in one take. I think that was a 10-minute scene. I thought that was brilliantly done. Yes, when I spoke to Dominic Treble Collins and Felicity Blunt for this very podcast, the scene they were most proud of in the first tranche of episodes was that one because of the challenge of doing that farcical. Do you notice it never goes out of the kitchen? You never see any of the actual dinner parties. You never see any of the food being consumed by any of the guests. It was just popping in and out. Everyone's out in and out.

53:01Exactly. It was brilliantly done. And again, this show is often called soapy by, I think, people trying to detract from it or critique it. They're like, oh, it's melodramatic, it's soapy. But of course, it's self-aware of its melodrama and what it owes to those 70s soaps. In some ways, it's kind of like a mix, isn't it, between Dallas Dynasty and British soaps and... I was thinking of this, dramas at the time. Have you ever heard of a show called Bokeh of Barbed Wire? Bokeh of Barbed Wire was like a mid-70s drama series on ITV that was really raunchy for its time and really daring. There's a whole incest subplot in Bokeh of Barbed Wire that was really shocking and outrageous and would be now if it was on TV now.

53:46And it was very, like, sexual, sexually driven, and it was huge. It was huge to be dominant. What time was it on? It was, like, 9 o 'clock Sunday night. Oh, okay. Yeah, like, 1975. Not lunchtime then. I was thinking it was a lunchtime thing. So I was trying to think of Rivals is a bit like that, mixed with the American ones. And it's very much its own thing as well, of course. But how did I get onto this? Oh, yeah. The 20-minute one-take fast scene shows just how ambitious and confident they are. And I don't think you would get that level of ambition in a regular, you know, soapy, in quotes, melodramatic type of show.

54:20Oh, no, it was like theatre. It was so well executed. I thought, God, there's so many moments to, I know probably we're going to run out of time, but things that really struck me is just how much David Tennant rejoices and delights in the evils of Tony Battingham. I mean, he is really embracing that big bastard energy from telling Sarah to get rid of the baby to his horrific, the horrific things he says and does in episode six, which we'll come to. He's just having the time of his life. Yeah. Well, his manipulations are worse, aren't they, I think, than season one. I think he's what he comes up with.

54:57Like the giving Maud, one of his sworn enemies' wives, a leading role in his production was a brilliant thing because that played out over a number of episodes, didn't it? And the ulterior motive. And I think the show's that is best when you're – obviously he is a horrendous, amoral bastard, but at the same time I think he probably – you know, there's things he does that are also justified, you know, artistically or creatively, giving her a job, putting her, she's on the cover of TV Times, etc. You know, like there's two sides to his manipulations. And sometimes they're not just evil. He's not just being evil.

55:34Sometimes he's actually doing a good job as well and making decisions that make sense. He's just been an astute businessman making great decisions for his company. And then other times he's just been cruel and vindictive. Exactly. And being cruel and vindictive is something he absolutely loves. And that, I think there's more of that in this season than there was in first. off the top of my head anyway. And shout out to Victoria Smurfett, by the way, is Moore, because that's a tough role, right? She's an intelligent, kind of, you know, very clever, smart woman who is willingly getting involved with him and his shenanigans.

56:08But you believe that she would go along with it. Oh my God, 100%. I had such sympathy with her this series because, I mean, obviously she commits adultery, but I just felt so sorry for her because she's so desperate for Declan to show up for her figuratively and literally. She's faltering in her career. She gets these breaks. She does theatre prior to the Midsummer Night Dream. And he just doesn't show up. And I'm crushed for her. You can see how much it means to her. And so obviously it's not a great move, shagging his nemesis, but I did feel sorry for her. I think despite her steeliness and her pretending she's in control, I think she is vulnerable.

56:49and he's taken, to some degree, advantage of her. Oh, absolutely. There's also the brilliant, we mustn't forget the brilliant Rupert Everett scene where he's ironing, remember? He's ironing and he's giving a lecture, basically, about how to behave to Rupert. And that whole scene was so brilliantly done and then he's finished the ironing and he hands it to Rupert and he's actually been ironing his suit and that's such a clever, sweet, brilliant idea. idea. So what's interesting about that is Rupert Everett was like a huge fan of Series 1. Yes. And apparently lobbied together. I don't know if you covered that in your chat with Dominic, but like that's amazing.

57:27That shows the power of rivals, you know, for the people who detract from it. It's like, you know, great talent want to be involved. Oh, completely. 100%. Yeah. I wanted to talk about Freddie and Lizzie. Frizzy, come on. Again, so brilliantly handled, isn't it? It's like it's a will they won't and they find true love with each other in the end somehow overcoming their, both of their unpleasant, shall we say, home lives, or their annoying, slightly loveless home lives, or majorly loveless home lives. And they manage it so well. They manage the ups and downs of that relationship, don't they, so well.

58:02And in the end, it's her. I like the fact it's being driven by her. She's like, fuck everything, I've got to go and see him. You know, she is, but I think because her husband is such a twat as well, there are different levels of twattery, aren't there, in the men in the show. because even like Aidan Turner I think he's the only bellend he's a massive bellend yeah yeah because the rest of them aren't like I would say he's the classic definition of a bellend like I think the rest of them are like nasty bastards or narcissists they're self absorbed yeah Aidan Turner's character is self absorbed I think a lot but yeah you're right yeah he's such a he's just a raging bellend he's such a raging bellend yeah you completely believe that she's that she A.

58:42that she absolutely is obsessed with Danny Dyer's character but also that she would love to get rid of this absolute twight in her life. Yeah, and I think it does the impossible for me, which is that I would never condone adultery, but in this instance I'm like desperately wanting them to make a go of it and be happy together. Also, I just love that, you know, when I think it's Danny says to, Freddie says to Lizzie, is that a potato waffle, which I'm suggesting is the new Netflix and chill. Oh yeah. It's such a good line. Yeah, absolutely brilliant. Yet to see Rufus Jones naked again. Of course.

59:16Must have been to get that. Is that the shower scene? No, when did he get that? That's in the, I think that's in the farce scene. I think just before the dinner party, he has a shower. It's just gratuitous nudity. Well, there's some great romping. So you've got Maud and Dylan in the shower. Yes. That's the bum scene. Cameron and Rupert with a riding crop, I think. And then obviously Freddie and Lizzie getting it on in the swimming pool. They're covering all bases, literally. Yeah, yeah. I think it's absolutely brilliant how Aidan Turner, right, has gone from, do you remember a few years ago, the height of Poldock, because I used to do, I think I mentioned this before, apologies to listeners if I have mentioned this before, I used to do quite a lot of Q &As with him in the Poldock era because I was a big Poldock fan.

59:58And do you remember the absolute… You're a Poldock, as I like to call the fans, the super fans. Very good. James White's broken up that pun. You've broken me up with that. A good pun is what summons me back to the room. Yeah. But Aidan Turner, do you remember, they had that publicity shot of him scything topless in polder, which went viral. And everyone was like, oh, my God, who knew that Aidan Turner was this hunky, ripped guy? And it became such a thing that he rightly, totally understandably, got a bit fed up of having to answer it and talk about it after five seasons of the show. More than my abs, guys.

1:00:34Yeah. But he was being so sweet. He's a lovely guy. He would never be difficult about it. He was just like, and sometimes PR, stars, like I would be warned by, you know, publicists to, can we just rock? Because they know what you like, boys. That's the thing. Yeah. Please don't ask him about his abs regime, you know, and all this. And of course I didn't. But now, cut to, what, 10 years later or whatever, and he's naked as the day he's born, romping

1:00:56Kay Ribeiro:around in the shower in this show. Yeah, still got it. He is the most naked, I would say, of the male leading characters. I know, I know, what's his name? Rupert. Rupert, yeah. That gets his dingle out in the first episode. but um but in terms of erotic sex scenes aiden turner has thrown himself into the show and i love it i think it's so brilliant that he's completely embraced the the nudity and the shaggy so listen so i'm really interested because i read the book before the first series came out if you remember right which is a big old tome and then before we did this i was like oh let me see how much is like because you know sometimes you lose a track of what's in the book what's not So I believe in the book that Aidan did sleep with Cameron.

1:01:39Maybe she would have slept with everyone, wouldn't she, if they'd have put that in? Sometimes I think, like, she slept with a lot of those people. Hey, no judgment here, Borda. No, no, no, not at all. But maybe, I don't know, maybe they thought that would have been too much. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, that's interesting. There's loads of differences, but I won't list them all. But yeah. List them all. Go on. Okay, well, Carlisle twins in the first episode. You know, the naked polo bros? Oh, yeah. Are there characters in the book? no the character's in the third book in the rutscher chronicles polo also sarah isn't pregnant in the novel but she is here and obviously there's like um a mystery over who the dad is and then um tony confirms it's him by saying get rid of it in that awful moment um and rupert remains an mp and he's a big part of uh ventura he doesn't get thrown out like right oh interesting and the biggest point of difference james which i know you probably want us to wrap up but it's going lead us nicely into episode six is that queen monica does not die well i wondered about that yeah because on the one hand it's brilliant that she gets this absolutely powerful and devastating and emotional ending to her story if you like listen she she's dies in the car crash um on the other hand i am devastated that they've killed off that character but she's such a good character who really came into her own this season.

1:02:59Claire Rushbrook is an apt... Claire Rushbrook is a genuinely, like, one of the great British actresses. She's did Mike Lee films, you know, she's done a phenomenal CV of performances and they really utilised her so well in this series. And to then... I understand why because it is so moving and devastating and that's what it's all about. And it feels like a commemoration of just how powerful an actor she is. But, oh my God, what a shame that she's not going to be in there anymore. It's just a real shame. I totally agree. And for other reasons is that, you know, that was Monica's moment to like, forget the emancipation of Mimi.

1:03:35It was the emancipation of Monica. She had this really, you know, these revelations where she realized that actually she's dedicated her life to self-sacrificing for others. She deserved happiness to pursue her real passion and her real love. And the woman whose name I've forgotten from, and we see her earlier in the series. and it was just so powerful and impactful and I feel like that scene with um Catherine Parkinson at the the dining room the kitchen table which I want to come to because that was so brilliantly uh performed and written I think Laura Wade wrote um this episode and I feel like it spoke to all the sort of lizzie's and monikers across the land any woman whether a mother or not who puts herself second or hasn't pursued her dreams or has allowed herself to be treated in a way that doesn't befit her i just thought any woman has to do a podcast with two bald middle-aged men well i didn't want to say it's to the lizzie's the case and the monikers are across the land but i think like after all that like it is a really uh impactful moment and it's really powerful that she dies and it will be on people's lists and like although you know for the bafta memorable moment i would actually like that kitchen table seems to be there for that for their two speeches registering that now i'm just saying it now it's time for may 27th no because i'm just thinking of the memorable moments.

1:04:53Right? Anyway, so, but for me, I just wish it, in a way, it hadn't happened because, you know, she's gone through all that and she's finally found her voice and, you know, the mouse has roared and then she doesn't get to pursue that. We don't ever get to see her happy. She doesn't get to explore that. She's cut, she's literally cut dead and I feel like that's a shame. It's dramatically impactful but I think it is because that in itself is a message, you know? Yeah. I don't want to be controversial here But I think there was a way of underlining what her and her brilliance of that character and what she's been through and her showing how to deal with her terrible husband and, you know, all of that.

1:05:37I think there was a way of celebrating her character's brilliance without killing her off. I agree. But taking her to the brink. And in fact, I actually thought that's what they were going to do because there are loads of intimations that she's going to do something terrible, right? I mean, it's not subtle. The storm outside, you know, it's like it couldn't have been more. It's a dark and stormy night. She's going off into the wilds of the countryside, and who knows what happened to her. And I thought they'll reign it back. They'll take her to the desperate point, and then she'll walk it back, and then she'll be okay and recover.

1:06:09But no, they kill her. I mean, it's totally artistically justified, but you're right. I think there would have been so many nice storylines that they could have explored. her and that woman you're talking about, and her trying to live her best life to use that. Also, I think... Yeah, what a shame. It's just a shame. I think even just for the audience, because I think it is so... Like, my friends and I haven't stopped talking about this episode, but that kitchen scene, because I think it does speak so deeply to a lot of people who, in that moment, felt really seen and heard. And so I just think it would have just been even more, like, you know, it would have done all those people justice.

1:06:43And I know you can't make it with your... You know, like, you can't make those decisions. You have to do what's best for the show and whatever. But I would have loved it. because I mean that speech and when they're both talking um you know about both sides of the infidelity coin these two women obviously Lizzie having cheated on her husband even though he's a raging bellend and then Monica is on the receiving end of being cheated upon and it's that like you know it's like our daughters deserve better and so do we right because otherwise you know we're setting our daughters this is you know we're with all what example are we setting our daughters with all this duty.

1:07:16So, yeah. And then the last thing I just want to talk about this episode, that the scene between Claire Rushbrook and David Tennant, the confrontation of Tony was superb. I mean, the whole episode is sublime, but the way she walks in and she's like, it's not your turn, right? And then she just lays it out to him, right? You know, I shouldn't have married you. and it's the way that you know i really thought he'd been cowed and i was like oh my god this is amazing and then he starts spewing his vitriol right and he looks reptilian i was i re-watched it just now before we um were recorded and it's the way his eyes are like glassy and they like side to side it's like a predator like he's ready to attack and then the whole thing of like um you know obviously that complete low blow where he's saying you know he wants to uh fucking feel something and I need sexual connection like breathing and says that she doesn't have a sexual bone in her body she's dead below the waist but what I love about that is because you know it can be a common thing to be so base right to humiliate someone to make someone feel a certain way and he certainly thought that's what he was doing but I just love in that moment that just one she didn't her only retort was I wasn't always and how perfect and how dignified for her.

1:08:40Yeah, no, it's a brilliantly written and acted scene, yeah. I thought it was really clever how they managed to find a way to make it believable and plausible that the confrontation would happen because they had to do the whole camera thing and the developing film in the dark room and all of that. They had to kind of come up with a way to bring this confrontation about and end it in such a way where she is driven to the edge almost quite literally. It was just like a pressure cooker, right? It was just we were building as the audience. We were wasting, wasting. I think in the end, they erred on the side of, we're showing you just how incredibly powerful this show can be.

1:09:18This is not just fun and frolics. It's a lot of fun and frolics, but we're also - It's not all froth, it's got substance. We can move you, we can really move you, and this is what we're going to do to move you. And it works. And I can totally see why they went down that route. It's just a shame that we're not going to see any more of that brilliant performance. and now we just have the agonising wait to remember which I'm furious about did you ask Dom and Felicity about it I don't think it fully hit home at the time just what a gap there would be I think in my mind it was like when the World Cup ends then we'll see the second lot of episodes but no that's the first thing you should have demanded you'll make sure you'll find out I'll message you we want these episodes now I can't bear it but you know it's a long way it's a long way but you know at least they've done a brilliant job so far yeah and also series three commissioned so exactly that hereby concludes the spoiler special discussion james wake up oh what what what oh got a little little mid-afternoon nap in the heat there that was

1:10:17Kay Ribeiro:nice thank you very much for that thanks for listening oh you are absolutely welcome uh we hope you enjoyed that chat about rivals season two part one uh we will be back with this podcast in your ears on monday when we will be talking about l on prime video silo on apple tv and of course, the final season of The Bear, which lands on Disney+. And we're going to record that. Well, let's be honest, we're going to record it tomorrow, but you won't hear it until Monday. But it'll be very exciting. And let's hope the studio air conditioning is working. Until Monday, pilot out.