PLUS Lucky

0:07Boyd Hilton:Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters and a podcast that has, well, is not only sitting in the sweltering heat, but is also dealing with technological issues, aka Steph's microphone, which has always been a finicky beast, I would say, but today has basically given up the ghost entirely and decided to take the day off. I can only imagine it's due to the weather and frankly, it needs a holiday. But as a result, Steph will be using her built-in Mac microphone. So it may sound like she's either A, underwater or B, currently inside the TARDIS. Say something, Steph. Let's see how you sound.

0:39Oh God, do I sound terrible? Is it really awful?

0:42Boyd Hilton:I mean, oh, it's hideous. Absolutely horrendous. It doesn't sound that bad to me, but I'm not an audio fascist. Coming to you live in stereo Luton Phonics, it's Steph Sealand. I'm so sorry. I hate technology. we will run it through some kind of de-lutenizer well maybe not or at least a de-echo filter and see if we can fix that up so it's unfortunate that you've been very unlucky this morning Steph especially because the show that we're covering this week is in fact called Lucky which you unfortunately are not but this is Apple's new thriller crime series type thing this is created by Jonathan Tropper my beloved Jonathan Tropper creator of Banshee and Warrior and seasons 2 and 3 of My Beloved Sea and it stars Anya Taylor Total Joy as we have named her as the eponymous Lucky, and she is a con artist, and she's on the run, having been, shall we say, left in the lurch, having pulled off a blag.

1:35Boyd Hilton:She is running from organised crime and the authorities. Organised crime, of course, in the form of Annette Bening, who is currently embracing her villain era with this and Dutton Ranch. But anyway, anyway, who wants to tell us about Lucky? Boydie. um okay well you you told us all about it in your comprehensive excellent that was pilot plus we hope you've enjoyed it please like and subscribe yeah um it is a very stylish pacey fast-moving caper is how i would describe it relying to a heavy extent on anya taylor total joys kind of very convincing work She's a con artist and she can basically twist anyone she meets around her little finger.

2:21Is that the phrase? And kind of get them to do what she wants them to do. She's like an emotional con artist, isn't she? That's a good description, yeah. She's an emotional con artist, yeah. So it's kind of – she's an intrinsically interesting character. This is adapted from a novel, isn't it, by Marissa Statley? I don't know if you said that. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. So I think she's done a really good job in making the character interesting and three-dimensional, because you're not quite sure. So there are moments where she really is desperate to get someone's help for her to evade the police and the gangster type people she's fallen in with, who think she's got their money.

3:02And she's absolutely desperate. And so she calls upon people to do what she needs them to do. but at those moments you're not you're still not quite sure because she does need them desperately and you're kind of rooting for her i mean you just are rooting for her and um so in those moments you're not quite sure whether she's just doing something because you know that's the that's the thing to do because she knows how to do it in terms of conning people or whether actually she's so desperate she really is desperate well she is right because she's you know she's caught in the She's let out of a car in the middle of Nevada and in the desert.

3:37And, you know, she's in a bad way. I thought it was – I believed in it. I thought it was convincing. It's quite complicated. No, it's not that complicated. There's a nice, sturdy cast of characters who are all chasing after her. And Annette Bening, I know you two are obviously fucking obsessed with Dutton Runch. Yeah. Yes. But what a brilliant late career time she's having, because she is brilliant in this. You totally believe that she's an absolute psychopath nightmare. She's having an innocence, if we can call it that. Absolutely. You're on fire, Steph, even though your mic's not working. So she could be on fire.

4:19We just wouldn't be able to hear it very clearly. She's having a netteissance, yes. and but she's so every i have to say every it's a cliche but every scene she's in she steals and it's absolutely riveting washing her and in episode two or three when she meets well so william fichner is steady indeed he is like he's like another level above of psychopathic gangster type people in the chain of uh of order in the in chain of what's the phrase i'm looking for the order of the people who are doing that stuff yeah i've completely lost it um psychopathy yeah and villainy just general villainy yeah villain chain um and there's a great scene where she goes to his lavish mansion and confronts him and that that's kind of like it i love stuff like that stuff that kind of uses you know the the california um locations really well it's visually very interesting.

5:13Although I have to say, right, I've become, for some reason, my ex, I'm still on ex, apologies in advance for those people. You are the only one of us still on Twitter. There's a few, there's a few. I'll tell you who there are loads of, in fact, this is my point. Pornbots and fascists. No, no, no, there's loads as well, obviously. They are cinematography experts, right, who I've somehow, I've somehow, I get loads of them in my feed, in my ex feed, And one of the things that I had to be arguing about was the opening scene of one of the scenes in this show. In fact, it's one of the scenes where she's walking in the desert, right?

5:51And she's carrying a jacket on her back. Iconic. Yeah. And people were complaining that it was too kind of washed out and, you know, not enough colour. And I'm like, that's the point of it. That's the artistic, creative, you know. I thought it was deliberately desaturated in the desert. But yeah. So I've really got into a whole, you know, X hole of people banging on about the cinematography of this show. And I don't know what the fuck they're complaining about, because I think it looks great. And every visual decision that it makes, I think, makes total sense. Because you see the contrast between the neon of Las Vegas at the beginning when she's celebrating with her husband.

6:33Is he her husband? He's her husband, yeah. Drew Starkey from Queer, the Queer film, the film called Queer, who's very good and that contrast between that and then she's let out in this bleak landscape which is the only person for miles and miles so I think it all made sense so I'm I'm absolutely into it I will I'm intrigued I'm riveted I'll carry on watching it and it's very good I absolutely I agree with everything you said I absolutely love you I think it's got one of the best in-car fight scenes that I've ever seen there is an extended scene where Anya is in no spoilers she is in a car and she's she has to make her way out somehow to safety to and that scene is so well shot I don't even know how they did it because you really feel in the midst of it and to go back to that desaturated desert which I thought was absolutely perfect and set her the thing about that scene is to me almost immediately felt iconic because you've got the jacket you've got this pristine jacket set against that that kind of you know the grainy landscape and she's is it a spoiler to say she's walking away she's walking somewhere okay that's not a spoiler to say she's walking she's walking she's walking um and i i love that i'm not quite i mean listen i don't want to get into why you've decided to take on all the cinematographers or why they've decided to take against this but i thought it was absolutely amazing it gave me kind of kill bill vibes it felt very uma thurman um and also once again proves my point about what happens to women on screen when we are supposed to know that they've gone slightly crazy right and they're slightly enraged because her hair which at the beginning was straight as soon as as soon as she's kind of double crossed within the first 10 minutes she gets a scrunch she gets a scrunchy bob and it all turns a bit wavy just saying proves my point once again um yeah she's fantastic in this we obviously we when we interviewed her we talked a lot about the physicality of this role dogs and the physicality of the role and one of the things that you notice straight away is that she the The director has made her work really hard to show that she is a real woman running away from danger.

9:05And even in the way that she's running, he had told her to run less well. And you get the feeling there's a scene where she's running across lorries and her arms are sort of flailing around. So the desperation of her to go from one kind of point of safety to another point of safety, the pacing is spot on with that. And yeah, I mean, Anya Taylor, not just because we've interviewed her, she was obviously wonderful. She's absolutely fantastic in this. Every expression she makes, every physical move she makes feels deliberate and it feels intended and it feels like it moves the story along. And I really, really enjoyed it.

9:46But yeah, my God, when Annette Bening arrives, you're like, oh, shit's got real. she should you're thinking lucky needs to actually be really worried now because annette benning is like the death knell when she comes there's a scene where she arrives and you're like oh shit and you feel really and i think that's kind of the genius of the way this is shot to to speak to the cinematographers it actually it does really take you along on the roller coaster ride that she's on so i'm i'm fully i'm fully on board yeah it's it's got a real propulsion to it this show

10:20Boyd Hilton:does because it's essentially i mean it's like it's like a i mean it's not mad max fury road but it is basically a chase and we go through nevada the deserts nevada to california we go all over the place but it's just constantly she is just running all the time for her life um which is a lot of fun and as you will find out on monday's show when you hear the onion taylor joy interview because she came on the podcast with us uh you know a lot of that is uh because it's all seen through her eyes and she is very much an unreliable narrator because she's literally a con artist so I think she's a really fun character it's really nice to see these kind of morally ambiguous characters but to see a very sort of female coded one rather than the very kind of like Tony Soprano Walter White type characters that we're so used to on television so it's a lot of fun it's not like I would say top tier Apple show like I really enjoyed it for me it's probably I think we at Empire Magazine I should say we gave it four stars I think that's fair it's somewhere between a high three low four I'd probably give it four, but it's definitely not up there with, I think, the best of Apple, but I still think it's a really good show.

11:23Boyd Hilton:And I watched all eight episodes, I think. So I did watch all of them when it first dropped. So I watched it a couple of months ago. So if I'm being glossy about specifics, it's because I watched it, liked it, and have since watched 100 ,000 other things and have clearly forgotten all the bits of it. I think William Fickner is brilliant in it, and he is genuinely terrifying, because I think he's a really good villain in this. I think Annette Bening as well. There's a coldness to her character. She's really quite chilling, and there's obviously a family connection in there with her as well which is quite fun but i think what really stood out for me in this is i really like the relationship between her and her father who's played by timothy oliphant and what the show explores is partly like it's a it's a you know it's a thriller and she's trying to survive she's trying to get out of hot water like that's essentially the the arc of the story but the themes here are whether or not you can break out of patterns of behavior because the point is is that her father before her was a con artist he's not a particularly good guy he's not a particularly good father and she is very much the child he raised and like each and there's the morality aspect like is she a quote unquote bad person or is it just this is the only skill set that she was ever taught from a young child she was taught the con she was taught how to you know find a mark and how to wrap them around her finger as boyd said so there's there's her kind of dealing with that kind of legacy that parental legacy and whether or not she can carve out an identity for herself which i think is quite an interesting and interesting thread in it as well.

12:44Yeah, when they were at the, they did a presentation at the Apple Santa Monica event that I may have mentioned. Oh, were you invited to Santa Monica, to go to a special event? Really? You've never mentioned it. I know. And well, I will mention it now though, because they talked about what, the father-daughter relationship, which I think is obviously the driver of the book as well, because this is a co-production with Reese Witherspoon's company. Yes. Who literally, they kind of find books that are going to be huge. This is a co-production with Hello Sunshine? Yeah, Hello Sunshine, yeah. Wow, okay.

13:16Indeed. Because it's quite unusual for them, isn't it? And yeah, it's female-driven, right? Because as we were saying, she's the traditional kind of character that you'd get played by a bloke in Breaking Bad or whatever. So I think that's what attracted her, and that's what attracted everyone to the project, was that relationship. And it does play out really well. Big week for Timothy Olyphant, of course, because he's also in The Five Star Weekend. He is. So he is constantly in demand. And has excellent hair. He does have excellent hair. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he just has hair, doesn't he? He just has hair, yeah.

13:51The bar is quite low for me, boy. But it gets to a point when a man still has, like, impressive hair when they're at a certain age, that it is just excellent hair.

13:58Boyd Hilton:It's just excellent hair. Lucky then, which is on Apple TV Plus, I want to say today. Is it today? I think it actually started yesterday. Yesterday? Yes. Wow. Yeah. And you can hear Anya Taylor-Joy on Monday's podcast when she is our guest in the studio talking about this very show. And, not to put two finer points on it, dogs. There's a lot of dog discussion at the top of that particular interview. So, be prepared. Okay, we were going to do, or are going to do, or may do, a Widow's Bay spoiler special. And we were going to do it as part of this recording and either do it separately, you know, as a separate thing, or we were going to bolt it on the end of this.

14:34Boyd Hilton:but because we've had lots of to-ing and fro-ing about the mic situation i fear we're not likely to have time so this is something we might have to record separately you might have to wait a little bit longer for the widow's bay thing we're going to try and record it this week but please do bear with us you know i think we can all agree it's steph's fault okay okay it is my fault but i'm just gonna say admin i can i can do it thursday or friday so you know okay good to know Thank you, Steph. Well, and also, it's actually James' fault, because we should tell the listeners that we're recording this podcast at the frankly absurd time of 5pm on a Tuesday evening.

15:12I mean, that's the issue at hand. Is it? I mean, it's still part of the work of day, buddy, I'm saying. We can go back and really blame. I'm chasing all back to Christopher Nolan. Yes. Because James has to watch The Bloody Odyssey and it's three effing hours long to be fair so it's actually all because of an ounce fault or

15:31Boyd Hilton:if you want to get right to it it's boris johnson's fault not for brexit but because boris johnson was at the screening i was at this point there were only about 10 of us in the screening and boris johnson was one of them and i'm saying one of the reasons why it didn't start bang on time was because he pulled up with all his you know special branch security and i twaddled in and sat in a frankly substandard seat oh boris clearly clearly can't trust you with brexit for the simple reason that anyone knows if you're going to sit in the imax waterloo the back three rows are the only viable places to sit and anywhere else is sub standard i'm so sorry and uh he's setting in the front you know an absolute absolute balance yeah yeah everything you need to know anyway anyway politics is such a good way of it's such an onomatopoeic way of describing his book i bet he was harrumphing all the way through anyway anyway enough about boris let's move on to the post bag

16:28Boyd Hilton:triage it's the post bag and the first message is for steph and it says why doesn't steph like widow's bay oh hi all surely if you like something you want to finish it yet it seems steph is finding every excuse possible not to watch the finale of widow's bay now behind in episodes to those she criticized for not watching it the only one left in England really to not finish the relief she expressed when she found out she could use watching the crow girl a program she hadn't heard of just 30 seconds previously as a further excuse to not watch any more of this series what's tangible the fact that she's gulped down six episodes of little house on the prairie all 70 seasons of yellowstone and couldn't squeeze in a program she professes to love more than close family is the genuine true crime.

17:24Boyd Hilton:What will be the next reason she can find to avoid the torture of fixing her eyeballs on another episode of That Blessed Show? Giving X-Men 97 another chance at John Craven's Newsround rewatch. It's time to stop everything, to pause the universe, to finish what you started, Steph, from Matt. Right. Do you know what? That, Matt, you are absolutely right. And even I was feeling the pressure. I was even feeling it. But can I just say, and I think I gave this as a reason and why I hadn't finished it. Okay, because I have loved, I have loved, loved, loved this series and I loved it from the beginning.

17:57And as I said, I wanted to not rush it because I wanted to sit with the finale because I think Willow's Bay gets better and better and better every single episode. And I think it's episode eight was absolutely my favorite episode, probably one of my favorite episodes ever of a TV show. And we'll get into that in our spoiler special. But I tell you what, I have finished it now and when I watched the finale, I was so happy I'd waited and watched it in isolation. I watched it on my own, in my house, in like my bedroom, alone and I took every single bit of it in and it was totally the right decision.

18:35So Matt, you're completely right but I have finished it now.

18:39Boyd Hilton:Well done, Steph. Well done. Well done for joining myself and Boydie on the Widow's Bay bandwagon. Widow's Bay. Will S. Bates is never, ever, ever going to not get mentioned on this podcast. Who wrote that email? Matt. It's very funny. Yes, he's very good. And the thing is, I was kind of feeling the pressure. And I thought, I hope no one brings up the fact that I have watched all of Little House on the Prairie, seeing as everybody seems to be ripping into Little House on the Prairie and calling it the remake no one wanted. Yeah, you're right, Matt. You're right. I take it on board. I'm sorry. okay well along those lines barbara says little house is a midwestern classic the books have more in common with the anne of green gables series than with anything by taylor sheridan they're not even sheridan adjacent love the pod of although i do miss k sometimes bob in maryland hashtag justice for bob but raised in wisconsin did we say they were adjacent they were i think we talked about how i mean i think i said if i'm going to watch a western i don't want to watch it unless Rip Wheeler's in it, and I finally stand by that.

19:41Boyd Hilton:Right, okay. I think there's not much that James and I are not bringing Yellowstone into at the moment, so I think we did possibly mention that. We probably did. But remember, Kay is on a job share, Bob. Don't worry. Don't worry. She'll be back. She'll be back in the coming weeks. Don't worry. She will return. But while we're laying into Steph, let's have another one here. This comes from Mark, and Mark says, Thanks for reading out my epistle about what real TV locations you'd like to stay in. The lovely Steph said she'd like to channel her deepest Jessica Fletcher and visit Cabot Cove, Maine.

20:09Boyd Hilton:But she'd be very disappointed because that is a fictional place. Do you know what? I thought it was, but I was going to say that. It is. And I said, I did say that. I acknowledged the fact that that is not a place, but I was saying I can't remember where it's actually filmed. It was actually shot in Mendocino, a beautiful coastal town north of San Francisco. It also happens to be next door to where The Birds was shot. So if Steph fancies paying homage to both Jessica and Hitchcock, then I'd be happy to show her around. Mark Woodruff from the USA. Mark, yes, thank you. I did know that Cabot Cove was not a real place.

20:46Did you though? I did, even though I do have a bag, which is like a Cabot Cove bag, which I'll bring onto the podcast so you can actually see it. I always assumed it was Cape Cod, because hence the kind of alliteration. No, it isn't. But I couldn't remember where it actually was. But yeah, thank you. I'm sorry if it came across as if I do believe. that Cabot Cove was a natural place. I mean, it would be amazing if it was a natural place. I mean, geographically, it is a place that exists that they have called Cabot Cove, but it isn't actually Cabot Cove.

21:15Boyd Hilton:Thank you for clarifying. Yeah. That's good. Okie dokie. This comes from Ali, and Ali says, oh, she's taken us to task. Absolutely love the bear, and I've saved last week's Plus show to listen to when I've watched it. Not had a chance to go in on season five yet, so imagine how chuffed I was to hear the massive spoiler read out from a letter on last week's Plus show. My husband and I absolutely love this show and are doing a full rewatch before going in on season five due to work commitments. We couldn't start it until last week. Luckily, he didn't hear the spoiler. So it'll still be a surprise for him at least.

21:48Boyd Hilton:Can I politely suggest a slight amount of triage with a spoiler warning in future? From Ali. P.S. I lived in Luton 2000 to 2004 when I started flying. Hope I never spilled a drink on you in Chicago, Steph. Oh, I wonder if I know Ali. Luton's not that big. What's Chicago's? Is it like your local nightclub? What is it? You've never heard of Chicago's. Chicago's is like a chain of nightclubs. I've heard of Chicago's. I used to frequent Chicago's and The Zone. Yeah. Yeah, I loved it. Absolutely loved it. The Zone is a good name for a provincial nightclub. This is the equivalent of Kudos in Watford, isn't it?

22:26Boyd Hilton:Which became, I believe, Destiny in latter years, which was the big nightclub in Watford. Yeah. And we had The Beach as well, which was also great in Luton. great nightclubs anyway what was the spoiler obviously we won't repeat the spoiler because if we repeat the spoiler we're just spoiling it again i know what the spoiler was the spoiler was hang on don't say it right no i'm gonna i'm saying gonna say it in a way that no one okay okay allude to it i said that something that happened there was no mention of something that happened in the finale before it actually happened and there was no idea of something that someone ends up doing right before do you with me and then somebody said no no if you go back and watch season four oh yes oh you're absolutely right okay yeah that is actually a massive spoiler i'm so sorry if you let that go i know i can't believe i did either it just didn't even cross my mind okay well that was idiotic apologies uh sorry ali we didn't mean to to ruin the bear for you i'm so sorry oh god i feel suitably chastened so to to punish myself i'm going to read out lee's uh message which is checks notes about 3 000 words long i'm gonna try and skip through this right i absolutely love the part it's always the first thing i queue up listening to on mondays and thursdays whenever you discuss early screeners i can actually relate in a small way to the privilege you enjoy with upcoming previews i've been part of the netflix preview club for the past couple of years which is something i've never heard of which means i get to experience that highly specific feeling of watching unfinished shows within my email address boldly splashed across the top of the screen to prevent leaks nothing quite like watching a tense hostage negotiation while my own email address hovers menacingly in the corner like i'm the one being held to ransom there's something uniquely entertaining about seeing the rough cuts before the magic of post-production sometimes there's just a small subtitle explaining what the green screen effect will eventually be like mountains to be added or you find yourself watching actors deliver intense dramatic performances while staring at a completely blank tv screen i'd like to think of it as a personality test can you stay invested in a sword fight when both swords are enabled fx to follow my recent run of previews has been incredibly strong i got to see a few great ones that are already out legends unchosen department cube bear grills island plus some as yet unreleased shows the undertow project code name i'm calling this one touch of cloth too having to fill out a five minute feedback survey at the end is an incredibly small price to pay for the sneak peeks netflix may not read the responses but i'd like to or imagine one exec somewhere quietly agreeing with my notes.

24:56Boyd Hilton:I always end up watching the shows again when they're officially released anyway, just to see the added effects, and more importantly, to check whether they took my advice that this show needs less Bear Grylls. Just need to get an invite to the Apple screeners now. James, can you recommend me to your close personal friend, Tim Cook, after Steph finally gets access? Of course. I didn't know this was a thing. Right, I'm going to give you some facts now because I didn't know this was a thing, and this is so exciting. Okay, so the Netflix Preview Club is an invite-only group of people. It had around 2 ,000 members, but now it's expanded to tens of thousands of users globally, okay, to gather a more diverse range of feedback on upcoming movies and TV shows, right?

25:35So you can't apply, but you're hand-selected based on factors like their viewing behaviour and how long they've been a subscriber. This is so, it's like a secret club. I love it.

25:49Boyd Hilton:That's genuinely fascinating. but i mean that is often what it's like weirdly i think we get that much less now it used to be i would say because when we get netflix screeners i don't think we get netflix screeners that early like i don't think i've ever had a netflix screener when it's vfx to be added or it's clearly unfinished i've definitely had apple shows and in fact i used to find that fascinating i remember watching season two of c and almost none of the effects were done like you could see like they're on a soundstage and it's all just green walls like it was it was wild it's like watching sort of like a Lars von Trier film.

26:21Boyd Hilton:It was quite extraordinary. And we got to see, and I saw a whole season of Slow Horses very early where none of the effects were done. And again, you've got the little notes like a crowd to be removed, like this door to be something done. It's really, really interesting from a kind of production point of view. It does take you out of it a little bit. But yeah, that must be very cool to be on that list. It's been going since May 2021. Really? And it was originally utilised for feedback on the 2021 hit Don't Look Up, which broke the record for weekly viewing hours with 152 million views. Interesting.

26:50This explains how they make the decision whether to actually tell people about shows or not, right? Because let's face it, some Netflix shows literally arrive almost on the day they, you know, without any advance warning at all. And it's just there. And it's just there. Or at the minimum of a couple of days, suddenly they'll go, oh, by the way, there's this thing that we're putting on Netflix. And it must be because they must gauge, to some extent, viewer interest from these thousands of people who are on this special club there. That's fascinating.

27:21Boyd Hilton:That is fascinating. They do it with us occasionally, don't they? Where you'll get like toe-in-the-water screeners where they'll say, look, can we send you a link or would you come in and watch this? And we want to know what you think of it. And often that's quite far out. Literally, that's never happened to me. Nobody cares. Do you think they pay more attention to the normies or the critics? I bet they probably won't pay more attention to the normies. No, because I'm more of a normie. You're more of a normie. No, no. Steph, you're an actual official. I mean, as well as being our PA, you are also a top critic as well.

27:53Multitasking. Yeah. Steph's in charge of microphones for the podcast. Oh, don't. Animation and microphones. I can't. I've got too many jobs now.