PLUS Man On Fire, and 73(ish) questions

0:07Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters. And this morning we are on fire. Not literally, of course, but very much figuratively as we delve into Netflix's new show Man on Fire based on AJ Quinell's John Creasy books, which most of you are probably most familiar with thanks to Tony Scott's 2004 film of the same name with Denzel Washington. Or if you're very old, then quite possibly the 1987 film with Scott Glenn. But anyway, this version, however, from showrunner Kyle Killen sees Yaya Abdul-Mateen II as Creasy, John Creasy, an ex-Special Forces commando with extreme PTSD, who winds up getting involved in a terrorist plot in Rio de Janeiro.

0:47Now, if that doesn't sound anything like the plot of the 2004 Tony Scott film starring Denzel Washington, there's a very good reason for that. because I would say the plot here has taken a bit of a left turn with this adaptation, which has taken the first two Creasy books, 1980s Man on Fire and 1992's The Perfect Kill, put them in a kind of blender and come up with a sort of Creasy milkshake. Hopefully, I guess, containing the best of both. Who knows? We will find out. But enough of me banging on about this. Let's hear about more of this from our very own Steph on Fire. Oh, that's nice. Hello.

1:24um well yes this is a reimagining and the reimagining has given me a lot a lot of delight i love now james we won't get into this we won't get into what you said about yaya abdul mateen as wonder man where i will just say again you just said it was fine and it was more than fine and we know it's got a second season so everybody else thought it was more than fine anyway so you're wrong yeah right i loved him as wonder man and just gonna lay my cards on the table. I'm a massive Denzel Washington fan. So the thought of anybody else trying to play Creasy was very, oh, I don't know. I love Wonder Man, but I just don't know whether he can do it.

2:05But my God, he can do it. This is so right up my street. It's so, so good. I was annoyed. I always get annoyed when I think that I've seen the original and I didn't know there was a 1987 film before that, but then I was only six then. So I'm going to forgive myself for that, which I do actually want to watch to see if it was any good. Have either of you watched that? I have never seen it The original of Man on Fire It's got the worst poster I've ever seen for a film If you click on it on Wikipedia It's extraordinary It's pretty bad It was 1987 But they were still making good films in 1987 That's true They were making a lot of good films Yeah but a lot of bad posters A lot of bad posters Anyway Man on Fire 2004 Mark Antony, Christopher Walken, Dakota Fanning I mean amazing films So you've got to think, oh God, what are they going to do with this?

2:53But as you quite rightly said, this is a reimagining. This is a meshing together. This is a blending. This is not the story of Man on Fire, but it does have elements of that story, which are really cool. There is a young girl in it. We're not going to do any spoilers because I'm going to watch, I've watched three of them. I'm going to watch the rest of them. And then James and I are going to do a spoiler special in the coming weeks, aren't we, James? Because you've watched all of them, I think. Okay. Oh, I'm not invited. Oh, sorry. Do you want to come? Steph's just basically fuming. you know as birdie that you haven't bothered to finish paradise or the pit or anything like that just assuming that you you won't follow through we're doing half man aren't we of course you can no i'm sorry you do no you do you steph boy oh god now you've called me k you're not invited okay right yeah adaption of the first two novels put together um bobby cannavale is also in it and you know I'll watch anything like him Bobby Cannavale are you sure?

3:48what are you calling him? not Cannavale Cannavale no I'm what no James Bobby Cannavale he is right yeah sorry Steph okay Bobby Cannavale is that how you say it? Bobby Cannavale yeah it's more Cannavale rather than Cannavale but you know whatever you do it's fine Cannavale Bobby Cannavale Bobby Cannavale it's not Calamari it's Cannavale Bobby Cannavale Okay, I'm going to need some Italians to write in and tell me. While we're here, is it Ryan Phillippe or Ryan Phillippe? Anyway, back to Bobby Cannavale. Back to Bobby Cannavale, who's great in this. Yeah, it's hard to talk about this first episode without giving anything away, but something happens in this first episode, which is so...

4:36It was completely unexpected to me because I haven't read the first two novels. This wouldn't have helped you even if you hadn't. It wouldn't because it's a reimagining. And I was like, oh my God, that's bold. And it was brilliant. All I'm going to say is no expense has been spared. In the first two episodes alone, I don't even want to think about what the budget was because the stunts that they're pulling off in this with the equipment, don't want to say what it is that's in this, is absolutely outstanding. With the equipment? Yes, because I don't want to say what the thing is they use. I'm trying not to spoil it for anyone.

5:11I don't want to. Yeah. But yeah, the oh shit moment where you go, oh shit, is immense in episode one. And the kind of catalyst for the recovery of Creasy's character is sensational. Like it's, because obviously when we first meet him, he's, you know, you're flashing back four years before and, you know, some bad shit's happened, won't go into it. But, well, actually I can go into it because it happens in the first five minutes. An operation went wrong and he is now having to sleep with, I'm going to say pillowcase. It's a pillowcase on his head. It's like a black bag, isn't it? It's like a black bag.

5:48It's got an abduct in the hood. I don't know what the official, is it abduct? I don't know if it has a specific name, the hoods that they put on, you know, essentially terrorists when they frog march them around. But it looks like a pillowcase. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. Let's say it's a Laura Ashley pillowcase. Yes. Oh, I love Laura Ashley. I'm sure you do. Right. Back to this. Right. Yeah. So he's, he's troubled man. We all love a troubled man. And this is about his kind of, his kind of vengeance and his redemption from what happened four years ago. Um, yeah, absolutely. But I, you know, pulse pumping, everything I want.

6:22I love Yaya. I think also it has, he's got a slight edge of humor to his acting, which I really enjoy. And there are a few little humorous moments, but the scenery is outstanding of Rio. I liked everything about it. and I'm going to finish it. We're going to do a spoiler special and we'll both say how much we love it. Yeah. Yaya is fast becoming one of my favourite actors. Yeah. You will not be invited, Boyd. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely loved it. Really loved it. You should invite Bobby Cannavale along. Do you know what? Or Ryan Phillipe. You know, either one. Okay. All right. Do you know what? Fuck you, boy.

6:57Yeah. Okay. I actually know it. Steph is on fire at this point. Yeah. Steph's on fire. I've actually met Bobby Cannavale I can't remember where And he was really nice And I think he's a slightly underrated actor Because I think he's really good at everything What are you talking about? He's not underrated at all We're constantly rating him Who underrates him? Because we're going to find him He's amazing He doesn't get that many lead roles I would say He feels like he's more of a Become a supporting player Absolutely I think he could happily have been a leading man I know what you mean He's like the best deputy ever He is Yeah Yeah, I know what you mean.

7:32He's really, really good. It's interesting because it's directed by Stephen Capel Jr. who directed Creed II when he was merely 26 years old. And he did a really good job on that film. He also had a chance to film his rise of the beast, so we can draw a veil over that. Oh, well, never mind. Yeah, it's got a very, it's got a very, I was worried about this because the film, it's not one of my favourite films of all time, but it's definitely a really good. Oh, wow, so you hated them. No, it's definitely a really good Tony Scott, Denzel Washington film, it had that Tony Scott vibe, completely over-the-top visual, very stylised.

8:07Can I just say, if you're talking about that film, that film has fucking brilliant subtitles. Oh, really? I know I have a subtitle obsession, but the subtitles in Man on Fire are absolutely off the chain. They're really stylised. They come on like machine guns and they're graphic subtitles. Oh, I remember. Yeah, I remember, yeah. And I can't remember if it was the DVD or the streaming release, but it was released with just bog-standard, shitty-generated subtitles. Needless to say, I was furious. Of course. But I have a disc version of it that has the proper burned-in Tony Scott subtitles, and that's the one you want to watch.

8:39That is important. Subtitles are important. Yeah, yeah. Very good. Anyway, sorry, Boyd. I haven't watched, not even the original, as we pointed out, the middle version of Man on Fire, the Denzel Washington version. I've watched it back for years. But my memory of it at the time was that it was one of his best films, probably Tony Scott's best films. It's fabulous. It's very good. So I was worried that this was going to be like a kind of rote, televisionized version of a really good film. But actually, I think because it's partly directed by Stephen Cable and just the whole vibe of it is very cinematic.

9:12It looks great. By the way, in the middle of me watching this, I got one of those alerts to yet another online article that someone had done about the supposed Netflix look. You know, we've talked about this before, that every Netflix show has imposed on it. Look, and this video, right, was insane. He made this point by comparing, I'm not kidding you, like Seven, which is famously dark, is literally one that also has one of the most influential looks of all time, with Happy Gilmore 2, which is all sunny. Yeah, of course they're different. Of course Happy Gilmore 2 is going to look more vibrant and vivid and colourful.

9:49It's saturated and, yeah. This whole piece infuriated me. And this show is trying to, quite rightly, try to capture, I think, some of that Tony Scott aesthetic It's not trying to look like every other Netflix show. And I think the whole idea that all Netflix shows look the same is just not true. Anyway. What I'm saying is people have a point because, like I said, we talk about this a lot. You know what a prime video is. You definitely know what a BBC is, Silent Witness. Do you know what I mean? You know what an ITV is. You know what a Netflix is. So it's not without merit, that point. That's what I'm saying.

10:22I'm saying if we could watch three things, take out the extraneous variables. They're all action things. we would be able to tell you which streaming service that will appear on. I don't agree. I just don't agree with that. Anyway, I think I might be able to tell an Apple show. Apple show is the one. That is the one. That's the difference. Yeah, you can with Apple, but I think Netflix has lots of different – I could easily find you a Netflix thriller that you wouldn't know necessarily was Netflix. Take Sandman, for example. You wouldn't know Sandman was a Netflix show. She uses those weird fisheye lenses.

10:56Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well, anyway, we digress. There is possibly something to be said for the lack of tangible light sources in a lot of streaming shows, where they're just, quote-unquote, lit, but you can't tell that there's a real-world light source. It's just everyone is just well-lit. Do you know what I mean? God, that's a really good point. That's something that I've noticed a number of times. I'm like, where is this light coming from? Everyone is just lit, but I don't see a light. Like, it's very light. Yeah. So that maybe. Right. Maybe. Well, a lot of this anyway is set in a lavish apartment in downtown Rio de Janeiro anyway.

11:31And so that makes sense. You can see, you know where the life source is there. That's true. I thought this was really well done. I think, you know, he is fantastic, Yaya Abdul-Mateen II. He's got that – because Denzel's performance was very much like a kind of Clint Eastwood, wasn't it? A kind of like grumpy, kind of not saying much, man of few words kind of thing. And sure enough, and I would say he's gone even further. I think Yowie Abitwotin has gone even further down that route of a really rough, he's got hardly any dialogue at all. In fact, I don't think he speaks until about 20 minutes in.

12:06Well, apart from maybe in the initial flashback to the operation that went wrong that you talked about, Steph. But when he gets back to the present day, so to speak, and the story kicks in, and Bobby Cannavale takes him to Ria, he's hardly saying anything at all. He's nodding at the people. and then when he eventually does say something, it's all the more powerful and interesting. So he's great. Bobby Cannavale is great. It's really well done. And the thing that you referred to, Steph, the thing that we can't spoil, the - The oh shit moment. The oh shit moment is absolutely brilliant. I did sit there thinking, is this absolutely brilliant?

12:40And is James going to come over and shit all over it and say it's terrible VFX or whatever, that they've used a volume and all this, that and the other, and it's terrible compositing or all his usual stuff when there's a big VFX thing that happens. And so I'd be interested to know what the official verdict is from Pity James. But I thought it looked great. And that moment, it does make it, doesn't it? Because you're like, oh yeah, you're coasting along. You're thinking this is a good setup. There's a whole thing, you know, with the family, Bob McKennavon's family and he's, all of that. And everyone's doing very well.

13:11And then the thing happens and you're like, oh, okay, that's fantastic. I watched all seven of these. Perhaps unsurprisingly. me. How'd you find this for him? Well, it's hard to say, to be honest, but commitment, boy, professionalism, really, in many ways. No, I think I could see why you would, I could see why you would just keep going with this, James, because it's very propulsive. All of that said, I think if I were to be writing a review of this, which I'm not, I might be in the three-star camp rather than the four-star camp. Oh, no! I really enjoyed it. Don't get me wrong, I actually really, I'm torn.

13:44Like, I think it's between the two, but I think we give out fours quite generously sometimes so i think maybe maybe i'd go three and i think there's really great moments in this uh you well i mean i'm a fascist about all things star rating you know included in that i think and no disrespect to car killen who actually thinks done a really interesting job of merging these two stories together because let's we forget the first uh john creasy story man on fire is all about his kind of coming back from the brink he's kind of a grumpy alcoholic and he ends up uh essentially becoming like a bodyguard slash companion to this young girl pinter who is dakota fanning in the in the in the tony scott film i've read the book as well um although it's it's it's actually a war with the mafia in in the actual book um and you've got that whole situation as a kidnapping situation and then like five years later when he wrote the second book perfect kill that's a revenge story because creasy's family has been killed so he's out for revenge so this kind of takes a bit of the first one in that you've got billy boulay's character poe who is his friend's daughter and he's trying to kind of protect her so you've got that element to it and then there's a revenge part of this as well so it is kind of blending these things together but it's not the same as or even all that similar to either perfect kill or man on fire it's almost like almost it's almost inspired by inspired by those two things um which isn't in and of itself a bad thing because they try and turn those into a coherent single storyline i think where this may be not falls down but i think where it's sudden it gets a bit bogged down a little bit is trying to turn those into a coherent larger arc across the season and i think what really worked for me here is the individual set pieces like there's a really good one in the first season there's a prison break later on there's some really great set there's a brilliant use of the location uh the brazilian favelas that's fantastic stuff that goes on there and obviously if you've seen city of god stuff like that they're kind of microcosm society within these kind of rio favelas it's fascinating uh and so that stuff's really good as well but there's a broader you know conspiracy slash mystery at work here and i just felt with that that the plotting wasn't always on point there are a couple of things where i'm just like okay well that's just daft like this is this is a very this is a slightly ridiculous turn of events and then the other thing is i found the overall story very very easily telegraphed um which i thought was not ideal because they they leave a couple of big reveals towards the end it's like if you haven't seen this shit coming since the second episode you haven't been paying attention there is also another complaint there is one piece of casting in this which for spoiler reasons i cannot get into but they cast the wrong person in a role in this and it is such an egregious bit of miscasting i was almost like wailing and gnashing my teeth at it it was infuriating at some point if we talk about this in terms of spoilers i will get into the reasons why but that drove me absolutely mad but all of that said wait a minute someone who's in the film I can't really give you any more information than that because it would be a spoiler you can't say it but but suffice it to say there's a bad bit of casting in this but all of that said I really enjoyed it I think Matilda's really good as Creasy because he has that kind of tortured you know like furious like full of PTSD thing going on which is a lot of fun to watch him kind of wrestle with his demons and I think the action sequences are great lots of location work it's really kind of lavish it looks expensive and it is really compelling.

16:56Like I say, I watched seven episodes. It was not a chore. I really enjoyed it. I had a really good time with it. It's flawed, but it's a lot of fun. So I definitely recommend that, you know, if you've got the time, you know, plough through it all. It's a giggle. I think, yeah, it's an easy, it's an easy, it's not a plough, is it? It's an easy, you know, it's an easy and fun watch. I think you could watch this in two settings. It's not a plough. Some ploughs are better than others, you know, as I'm saying. That's true. If it's like an A-star plow, then yeah. It's an easy plow. I'm going to ask you something.

17:28Okay. So, you know, you made a point about there being a couple of plot points that towards the end you were like, oh, you knew that was going to happen. Okay. Don't you think now that with every kind of series like this, whoever makes it, they always do a couple of things that you're like, oh, I knew that was going to happen. But that's more of like a, you know, for the viewer experience to make you feel comforted, to make you feel like, oh no, I'm in this. I knew it was going to happen. I feel fully immersed. There's a little bit of safety in knowing that you're going to, you know, you can guess a bit of the plot.

18:00This is just a question. Do you think that's true? I think some people very much enjoy that from exactly, as you say, from kind of emotional regulation, comfort point of view, the kind of familiarity of certain beats. Law and order being a prime example of an entire sort of substructure based on that idea. You know what's going to happen. therefore the stress is theoretically removed um however i think something like this where it's a thriller which has a kind of a mystery aspect to it i think at that point you kind of you don't want it to be really that obvious and and i think there are a number of reasons why i think it was obvious but again i can't really get into um but we will we will obviously talk about that but i thought that was that was unfortunate i think it needed a little bit more sophistication in the plotting or at least a little bit more subtlety in how you obscure the actual truth i mean I mean, I think one thing, having watched the first three, you kind of, there's one person you think, oh, I reckon he's a bad guy from the beginning.

18:56And I'm wondering if that's what you're alluding to. But we'll get into that in our spoiler special, which Boyds are invited to. We will get into that. But Man on Fire then, which is on the Netflix, now, as we speak, and it's good. So, you know, watch it. Yeah. And officially, Boyd, you are invited, of course. Yes, you are. Assuming, of course, you have the time to watch it after you've finished Paradise Season 2. well again there's a lot yeah yeah there's a lot coming up so on the pit we should say uh i have been i have there are many demands for us to pit spoiler specials so uh we are very near the end of season two of the pit and if we are going to do a big spoiler chat about the pit seasons one and two okay you know what i'm going to commit to i'm going to commit to do you remember when i did like 24 episodes of shrinking i'm going to do this is it's bank holiday weekend i'm going to do I'm going to do it with The Pit so we can do a spoiler special.

19:46Go on. I've got to finish revising my book on that holiday Monday so I'm going to do it after. I'll do The Pit like that next week. I can do The Pit next week. Okay. I'm almost appalled, Boydie, that you have not already watched one of the best shows of the year. I've watched more of it than the others. I've watched more of it than the others. I love The Pit. Okay. Okay. Good stuff. Right. Now. Now. Now. Now we would normally have time for the post bag. But, but in a characteristic, complete change of format without any warning, we're not going to go to the post bag. We're going to do something completely different.

20:24You will recall when I was off and you didn't have access to the post bag, Boyd suggested putting people through Vogue's 73 questions. Now, obviously, that's a more difficult thing than you'd imagine. Why, you say? Because there literally aren't 73 questions because almost every single one of their 73 questions interviews uses different questions. So, what I have done, using the help of ChatGPT, is I have had it distill the most common recurring questions used in Vogue 73 questions format, which I have now in front of me. Now, this may be a spectacular disaster, in which case we will never speak of it again.

20:58However, however, on the off chance that it works, yay. Okay? So. Oh, shit. How are you going to do this? I'm so glad I mentioned this. Yeah, thanks, Boyd. for the sake of brevity runtime and people's sanity i am not going to put 73 questions to each of you because that would be madness instead instead we're just going to go through them until we get bored okay okay so it's going to be just questions xx questions because we don't know how many right okay sure you don't want to have another chat about subtitles in there uh no fine let's just you know there are questions about subtitles in there you don't know right so hopefully this will pull back the curtain and people will learn more about you perhaps more than you desire oh jesus right are you ready sorry sorry so sorry i know i know we're going to start um so we we're all answering the same question no so what i'm going to do is i'm going to ask you a question and then i'll ask boyd a question and they're going to be different questions okay do you get do we get like a veto oh do you get a veto oh interesting do you get a veto i don't recall taylor swift asking for a veto when they went around to her house and asked her 73 questions Good point well made Right No vintos Right But equally she had time to prepare She knew this was happening in advance Unlike us Admittedly It is abundantly clear from watching them That they do get the questions in advance But you know You guys are professionals I think you'll be fine Are you going to answer any?

22:19I'm the questioner Steph I'm the questioner If Boyd had prepared questions Then he could fire them back But obviously He does not So Well if you give me any Any forewarning Then maybe I wouldn't have done Anyway Let's just get going Let's just get this disaster on the road. Steph, how would you describe yourself in three words? Small, tie, um... Meal. Small tie meal. Okay. I'm not sure if that's racist, but let's move on. Sorry. Boydy. Boydy. Small tie meal. What motivates you? God, I'll tell you the profound one. You do. What motivates me? I'm going to say the answer to that is tea. well yeah that's a good answer um coffee actually more coffee coffee okay i've never seen you drink coffee you're always a tea person whenever i i say i have one a day i have to have one at least one a day yeah i've never in all the years i've known you seen you drink a coffee do you know how boyd makes his tea i have coffee first thing in the morning i know i've yeah boyd makes his tea wrong every time and it upsets me so much so let me i'm just going to give a bit more insight because it drives Kay absolutely mad.

23:30Whenever me and Kay and Boyd make coffee together, she's like, why? So Boyd puts the teabag in, and then he puts the milk in, and he lets it, and then he puts the water in. And every single time, Kay gets incensed by it, doesn't she, Boyd? Yeah, and she's wrong. But go and give us your reasoning behind it. It just, you get less of that, you know, detritus at the top when you pour the boiling water and the milk is... heated up by the boiling water you're pouring into with the tea and you're mixing it around instantly it's just better honestly yeah ultimately what it does is it lowers the temperature of the water meaning that tea does not percolate correctly exactly james an instantly boiled kettle is hot high enough that's not an issue that's fine it's absolutely fine yeah but you poured it into cold milk anyway anyway we've got so i see what i see what you try to do there you try to sidetrack the 73 questions not having it right steph what is your biggest pet peeve my biggest pet peeve is people who don't know the difference between two and two and you're and you're oh i'm a nazi i respect that steph that's a good answer it really winds me up when people like i love you too or like you're and you're there those two are so simple i can forgive other things but two and two and you're and you're a misplaced apostrophe is actually a capital offense because it means something completely different do you intervene then if you if you're if you've got a friend who gets the two and two the wrong way around all the time, would you actually go by the way?

24:58Really? That's a tough one. No, I do it on text. Because people do it on text messages. And I'm well known in my friendship groups for doing that. It is annoying. Oh, no, I agree. Yeah, it is. Like, if you thought I love you too, I sometimes will be like, you love me to what? You love me to what? Because that's not the right, do you know what I mean? That's not the right two. Wow, you add a layer of passive aggression to it. that's nice yeah but only for people that you know like i you know i really love and they don't you know they know i'm not being mean mean people is my other pet peeve okay boydy what is the best advice you've ever received start in the middle start in the middle is this is george lucas advice this is very much what he took to heart with star wars no this is my editor when i did the first book i ever did years ago and he said um your your chapters begin at the beginning and you know but you've got to start something start them in the middle because it's more interesting and then go back to the beginning what you're saying is the best advice you've ever received is to begin all narratives in media res your own personal hate on television yeah yeah absolutely it is ironically yeah yeah it is but in book form i think it makes sense okay steph what advice would you give your younger self stop worrying so much stop worrying so much stop worrying so much about what other people think.

26:19Okay, that's good. I give that to myself now as well. Stop worrying. I worry all the time about what other people think. Specifically me and Boyd, that's what you're saying. Funnily enough, I literally couldn't give a shit what you two think.

26:31Other people, yeah. Stop worrying about what other people think because I think that, for me, I worry so much about what other people think. It prevents me from doing things and I know, I know that I shouldn't but I just can't stop. Just while you haven't worked with Bobby Cannavale until now. Yes. Yeah. And why, yeah. at very kind of early yes boydy what inspired you to get into your field i've always liked the idea of like magazines and and um so when i was a kid i used to create my own magazine so um we've seen magazines i was very excited about magazines enemy you made your own magazines like yeah how did this how did that work james it's like science boy from friends with when ross used to do science board magazine i was thinking press gang yeah yeah no it's not i'll just on paper i'd get a full paper and i'd design a magazine and write i'd even go so i was writing articles for it and stuff yeah but i remember yeah and then i've got i was very excited every time every tuesday when the enemy uh came out um i'd buy it yeah so so i was so i was actually obsessed with magazines yeah okay good good and you're now living the dream i also wanted to be a film director but that was Sorry.

27:40That was hard. Listen, there's still time. There's still time. You're right. There is. Steph, what is the hardest part of your job? Pronouncing Bobby Cannavale's name right. Right. Okay. This is a two part. The hardest, there's two, there's two things. So dealing with AI, I find really difficult with my job, if I'm honest. And dealing with other - Always be honest. Yeah. Dealing with other people. Just generally it's hard to do. AI and AI. It's hard to, sometimes I find it really hard dealing, just dealing with other people who have very, very strong opinions about things. I'm talking about in the office.

28:24Like, you know, sometimes it's really hard to keep people happy. I feel like this is a very pertinent. No, I just, I don't like upsetting people in any way, shape or form. And, you know, I find it really, because I'm such a ridiculously annoying people pleaser that I find that really stressful because sometimes I don't agree with people and I can't say it. And when it's in person, it's worse. That's what I'd say. Does that make sense? So when me and Boyd are wrong, you wish you were able to say it more freely? No, because I feel like we have a really open and honest relationship. So, you know, when people are really, you're really good friends with people, you can say whatever you want.

29:01They don't give a shit. Do you know what I mean? You don't care. But when it's people who you work with, sometimes that's really hard. that would be my that would be my hardest thing okay Steph wants to call more people twats okay that's good to know no I don't no that was my takeaway thank you Steph for sharing that information with us uh Boydie Boydie Boydie Boydie Boydie what is one skill that you wish you had oh that's easy uh playing a musical instrument preferably the piano or the guitar really you know there's I don't know I should let you in on the secret there is actually a way of getting around that and learning that skill I don't know if anyone's told you but you can get teachers I haven't got time to do that I haven't got time to do that I can learn the fucking piano.

29:37I would love to do it. One day. You should totally do that. You know, we should get Boyd for his next birthday. We should buy him piano lessons because clearly that's it. Oh, we should. Boyd, he wants to learn the piano. That's his dream. Why on earth haven't you done it? You'd be great at the piano. I'm so busy. I'm always, yeah, I've got stuff to do. Listen, you've always got time to tinkle the ivories. You always have. Clearly not, but yeah, maybe one day. I'm going to buy you one of those little miniature keyboards as a gift to get you started. A little one, yeah, a synthesizer. and then you would really, really be like Ross from Friends.

30:08Yeah, yeah. Playing Axel F on a staircase. Just working on his music this summer. Leave him alone. Okay, Steph, what is your favourite book? To Kill a Mockingbird. That feels performative. Is that really your favourite book? It's absolutely my favourite book. It's The Da Vinci Code, isn't it? No, it's absolutely. You know, I'm a big, I also love Sleepers. So Lorenzo Cacaterra, as I think I've said before, is I love, no, no, the thing is it really annoys when people say that because it's like when Victoria Beckham named her daughter Harper and then everyone she was like my favourite book is To Kill a Mockingbird and it probably is her favourite book but everyone's like but let's just be honest it's lots of people's favourite book because it's just a fucking brilliant book like it's an unbelievable book so yeah that is yeah yeah I believe it's I think it's Kay Ribeiro's favourite book as well really?