PLUS Matthew Perry: A Hollywood Tragedy

0:07Hello and welcome to the Pilot TV podcast. Actually, this is Pilot Plus and it's only taken us about 17 hours to prepare technically for this hugely exciting event in which I try to host the Pilot Plus podcast with my esteemed colleagues Kay Ribeiro and Steph Seelen. Hello, guys. Hi. Hello. Hello. It's been slightly dramatic, hasn't it? What a long, strange journey it's been to this point. We can actually hear it. Oh, my God. But the listeners don't need to know the technical details. Let's just say it all seems to be working now. And, yeah, this is our first chance, Kay, to catch up since the, I'm saying outstanding triumph that was the pilot TV podcast live 349th episode on Friday.

1:00Oh yeah, how did it go? Yes, Steph. Yeah, where were you? Well, as I said, when I was on last week on Pilot Plus, no one invited me. So that's why. Steph, you know you don't need an invitation. You are always welcome at the pilot table. Okay. There still was no forthcoming invitation, so I was not there. But I saw the pictures and it looked amazing. Yeah, yeah. It was incredible. It was an absolute riot. And it was basically all down to Russell T. Davis. Oh, he's incredible. Who was on fine form. It was all down to him. In particular, the review of Butterfly will go down in history. Listeners, if you haven't listened to that bit yet, it's in the review section.

1:42But everyone should listen to the whole thing because it was a fantastic event. I will never hear the word Butterfly and not think of Russell now. No, absolutely, yeah. I sign everything now with the butterfly emoji to him as you should okay I need to know what this is about give me a clue so tell me what did he say Butterfly is a new show on Prime Video it's a new espionage thriller and I you know kind of led the review on the live show and Russell just thought it sounded well you have to listen to it Russell was shall we say intervened in my review he derailed it deliberately derailed it and it's a hilarious show anyway fantastic oh by the way I can't believe you haven't listened to the episode yet, Steph.

2:22I mean, it's only two hours, 20 minutes long. I've been very busy. Two hours, 20 minutes, I'll do it today. Do it today. Anyway, in the meantime, I should have said, I haven't even mentioned the menu of this very special episode of Pilot Plus. We are going to be, in a slightly unusual turn, we're going to be reviewing a documentary. It's called Matthew Perry, A Hollywood Tragedy. And as the title alludes to, if I'm using that word correctly, and I'm probably not, as many people have mentioned in the past. It's about how and why poor Matthew Perry died, looking at the kind of medicine he was taking, the drugs he was addicted to, et cetera.

3:04So we'll discuss that. Are we reviewing this program because it's about Matthew Perry, the legend from Friends, which, of course, is all out, you know, a lot of people's favourite sitcom have, including James, who's not with us and is on a holiday. Yes, partly. Are we reviewing it because there's nothing else on? Absolutely, there is nothing else on. this week. Outrageous. I know. And Kay is going to crack open the mailbag and unleash a torrent of highly intelligent and probing questions at Steph and me in what is, in many ways, a glorious recreation of the glory days of basic binges. Oh, yeah!

3:43If you know, you know, listeners, that's all I'll say. And if you do know, it's the time before these two fucked off and left me replacing me with James Dyer to star in the pilot podcast. And I'm just out there in the winds alone. But you know what? It's fine. It's just fine. Not bitter. And we haven't looked back since, let's face it. I mean, yeah. And can I just say, I just tried to call James to assist us with the technical difficulties, right? He literally couldn't give a fuck, right? I was like, are you on actual holiday? His words. I'm not out of the country just mooching around then I called him to which he did not reply he's mid mooch he did not respond priorities yeah horrendous yeah I mean he's had a very taxing time going to Thailand and working hard yeah but also he had to write his monologue his opening monologue of the live show which went on for about 20 minutes so oh but did it no but listen can I just say at this point I would like to give James and it's unlike me I know give him a shout out because I mean yeah I am going to do it because I mean obviously he does this every week but to do that in a live show he really like pulls it out of the bag in terms of you know he spends a long time on his script and whatever and he and I think he he did a good job so credit where it's to oh he is a great presenter what a grotesque moment of sincerity though we don't need this yeah no but it's a lot of pressure on him as the you know as the main host he loves I feel like he doesn't feel pressure, though, does he?

5:21He doesn't ever seem to be... No, it's good. I like this psychoanalysis of James' segment. This is a new segment. He internalises the worry, I think. But also, he does love it. I mean, and hopefully so. You know, he's got a lot of fans out there. Anyway, let's move on. Yeah. Anyway, if you haven't, for whatever godforsaken reason, listened to that episode yet, please do. It's very special. So let's start with Matthew Perry colon, a Hollywood tragedy, which arrives on ITV1 next Monday, August the 18th. Steph, as our true crime correspondent in many ways, you are the editor of True Crime Quarterly.

6:06Godfucks. Crime Monthly. Sorry, Crime Monthly. This is, because in many ways, this is, it kind of, it's part, you know, a look at Matthew Perry's life, right, and his career, et cetera, and his issues, various issues, but also it is about, essentially, people have been accused of the crime of being involved in his death. So I think it definitely comes under crime, true crime in Hawaii, doesn't it? It 100 % comes under true crime. So all the way through, obviously, what you have to remember is that there are cases pending against the people that they feature in this. And several people have pled guilty for their involvement for supplying Matthew Perry with drugs.

6:52And two people essentially have not, it looks like at the moment they're probably going to go to trial because their lawyers are saying they didn't have any involvement with this and they cannot be directly linked to the death of Matthew Perry. And when we say they cannot be directly linked, we're talking about a chain of evidence which will link them directly because for one specific person, they're saying that the drugs, the ketamine queen, the drugs that she supplied directly killed Matthew Perry. They were the drugs and that's going to be incredibly hard to prove. So there's two people, a doctor and the ketamine queen, who are, that's still pending.

7:32So I think we need to be very, very careful about saying that these people have not been convicted of a crime. And they flash up this disclaimer, don't they? Yes. We should say this is an American production. This is a production for Peacock in America that ITV has acquired. And it flashes up this disclaimer, like constantly saying, basically saying these people have been accused of crime, but it's still pending. Case is still pending. Don't assume they're all guilty, basically. I'm paraphrasing. Yeah, because you can't have that any kind of prejudice. And even the fact that it's out there, obviously, they're covering themselves somewhat by saying, oh, you know, you can't prejudice these people because nothing's been proven.

8:11But when they have segments where they talk about the fact that the Ketamine Queen sent a message to the doctor saying, you need to delete all of our messages directly after Matthew Perry's death, it's looking pretty bad. But all of that information, I'm not telling you anything that's not in an affidavit. An affidavit is a document that is made to support the arrest and the charges brought against somebody. So in an affidavit, it will have all the evidence they've got. So they've searched her house. They've gone through. So, I mean, I still cannot believe that to this day, people think if you just delete a text message, the authorities are not going.

8:56If you just delete it, then it never happened. Like, how stupid can you be? Of course they can find it. It's absolutely ridiculous. Go on, Kay, what were you going to say? No, I was going to say, yeah. I mean, it's just, it's forever there. I mean, it makes me worried about our WhatsApp group, but yeah. I mean, and absolutely should be, yeah. I mean, the police are monitoring everything we say. Constantly. Yeah. And this popular. Yeah, but the thing is, you can't do anything now. This is not like, you know, the 70s where like people were just murdering and doing whatever, right? Murdering. You can't do that.

9:28But you know what I mean? Like nowadays, you have like, every time you open your car, your car is a computer. If you have a certain level of car, right? Your car is a computer. They can find out. There's new investigation and forensic technique that can find out when you open and closed your car door. What? When that car was moved. Yes, yes, a man in America. If you've got one of those Teslas, though. No, no. A man in America has just been convicted. A man in America. America has just been convicted of killing his wife based on the evidence that they found out from his car that he moved his car to the house, backed his car up to the house at 2 a.m., kept opening and shutting the doors when he was moving his wife's body.

10:12He said he was still asleep, but the computer's in your car. You've got to be careful. You're not using that sat-nav. in your car you'll be careful anyway sorry i digress i digress yeah i dress anyway matthew perry so yeah what starts out as just seemingly an incredibly tragic overdose um starts to unravel in the most horrendous way of actually he was he was being aided and abetted people really taking advantage of what is a terrible illness of addiction and actually making a shitload of money out of him and that's therein lies the crime these people are taking advantage of him they're supplying illegally writing prescriptions for him um and then the what's horrifying to me teaching his live-in um carer the live-in assistant housekeeper yeah yeah to to to inject him with with ketamine which is you know highly illegal um I mean it's horrifying it's it's so so sad um and one of the most profound things I think he mentions because a lot of this is um in his own words because it's taken from his audiobook um friends lovers and the big terrible thing is when he says that he has spent half his life in treatment centers and 12 million dollars paying for those treatment centers.

11:36I mean, that is astonishing. Half his life, at 50, half his life in treatment centers. Can you even comprehend what that would be like for someone? And still, he was still so, so addicted at the end. It was something like, I think it was£100 ,000 worth of ketamine that he'd taken in the three days. In the final three days of his life, he had 27 shots of ketamine. I mean, God, it's just inconceivable, isn't it, to have that level, that someone can have that level of addiction. But so many do in America. What did you make of the documentary as a whole? Do you think they did a good job telling this story?

12:16Basically, do you think they did a good job telling his story and why and how he ended up having these addiction issues and what happened to contribute to his death? Personally, I felt like it was kind of like, oh, his parents broke up when he was younger. He had his mother had him when he was young. His parents broke up when he was younger. And then it was kind of a bit like, so he had a troubled childhood and he always felt very isolated. He always felt very alone. He found some solace in coming to LA, having that recognition. He was obviously constantly seeking a level of approval, but that level of, he could never find it.

12:54It could never really make him happy. And when he talks about the first time he took any kind of drug, which is alcohol, when he was 14 and how that immediately felt better there's a really poignant part where he says he thought this is what normal people felt like felt like because he felt so happy um and he thought oh this was this must be what normal people feel like and then he was consistently chasing that feeling and if you cannot find that feeling without drugs which he clearly was unable to do um then it obviously was just going to be a perpetual cycle of addiction which which was awful.

13:31And all the love and all the adoration and all the friendships. And I thought that was really sad. Hank Azaria talks a lot, who is a very good friend of his. And he says, a lot of us feel like we lost him to drugs and alcohol a long time ago. And that again is just, he was so loved. And he was just, there's just this horror about being this massive presence on screen, but behind the scenes. And it's not an isolated tale, is it? of actors who seek the stage and then actually behind the scenes have huge issues with depression and feelings of isolation and constantly seeking reassurance about their own talent.

14:14Yeah. I did it well. You think you did it well? I think they did it as well as they could in that time. But it wasn't the depth that I would have liked. It was very much more about the fact these corrupt doctors, I thought. It was a lot about them and sort of a little bit about his life. I think if you want to get a feeling about what his life was really like, then you really need to read his book, which is excellent. I had mixed feelings about this as I knew we were going to review it because I tend to find these shows, I was worried about how tawdry it would be because it's essentially raking over the sordid details of his life and death.

14:57and I think, and I still have a mixed feeling about it. On a tawdryness scale of one to ten, how does this rate in the tawdry stakes? It's not, I think it hits a balance five, I'm going to go mid level because I think the thing that helps it is that they have contributions from the people they have contributions from. So for example, Martin Estrada, who was the district attorney at the time of the death. So he was able to give his insight, which felt very informed. Obviously, he's gathered a lot of evidence, et cetera. So that added some authority to it. As Steph said, his friend, Hank Azaria, the actor, also contributed to this, as well as Morgan Fairchild.

15:42Can I just interrupt one second? The Hank Azaria stuff was interesting to me because I couldn't work out. That was stuff that was shot on Zoom. And I couldn't work out whether that was stuff that he had contributed to this show because I don't think it was, was it? No. It wasn't. They had put the date up. I can tell you what that was. After Matthew Perry died, he responded with a very long tribute on his own social media. And they have cut those bits together. Unlike Morgan Fairchild, who sat in her palatial home and gave a proper interview. In which case, I'm putting the tawdry level up because they don't make it clear.

16:22That is not clear. I mean, obviously, you can see it shot on Zoom, of course, but... They flushed the date up. I think the first time they cut to that, that's their way of making it clear. Yeah, but the first time. I mean, he's on screen many times, right? I agree, I agree. So I felt like that added a sort of level of authority or intimacy, the fact that his close friend was contributing to this. But yeah, okay, I feel disappointed in that because I felt misled. But I do think Martin Estrada sort of contributing is a factor. But yeah, overall, I just found it incredibly sad, as Steph said, because in spite of all the adulation and the fame and his incredible talent, it's that he was just in the grips of this terrible addiction that he couldn't kick and everyone tried to help him.

17:09I think Jennifer Aniston's just done an interview with Vanty Fair where she talks about him as well. And I think the sad thing is that no one could help him. And the fact that they use clips from his audio book, I found it like it's hard, isn't it? Because you're hearing his voice and you're hearing him talk about his addiction. And in fact, he talks about ketamine, which is like, you know, ultimately the drug that killed him. And that's, you know, it's devastating to hear him talk about it then, you know. I don't know. It was a really sad watch for the reasons of, you know, him talking about his addiction and the struggles he had.

17:45And when he says you're able to chart, they do a lot of cutting up of interviews he's done to promote this book, which I agree with Steph, you should read. So he, Diane Sawyer interview or whoever, and he's sort of saying, yeah, you can chart my addiction through friends depending on my weight gain. And I think that's really fascinating. But ultimately, it left me feeling really angry at the medical professionals who let him down. And they're there to care for him and his addictions, yet they saw him as a cash cow. And the fact that there's this correspondence, and as you say, the documentary is at pains to flash up these things of, I've actually written it down.

18:22The program examines a case that is yet to be tried for all the defendants. Statements about actions or defendants are alleged until determined by a court of law. so they say that and they like flash up moments where they're like this is a text that was allegedly sent between you know whoever um and the doctors were essentially you know mocking him like let's see how much this moron will pay and that is it is distressing and disgusting to hear so yeah i mean i've gone from saying i didn't find it tawdry to um that i was mid mid you know tawdry level but actually i think yeah it's heightened i think what you're alluding to as well is the fact that it's a bit of a cuts job isn't this it's it's not one there's not one tone throughout it that kind of brings it together and like none of the friends cards obviously would contribute to this i i i i thought this was terrible i have to say i thought i thought it was absolutely shocking shockingly okay cheap and um tawdry my tawdry scale would be at eight eight nine wow okay and the problem with it was for me was that it had so much um bullshit filler documentary, cheesy documentary nonsense going on.

19:30How many times, I stopped counting, how many times they showed us the Hollywood sign, right? When they were doing like, you know, filling in space, literally showing you something while they prepared us for the next talking head, who, by the way, was a journalist from The Sun or a journalist from The Hollywood Reporter. Fine, you know, to tell the story. I mean, then you'd see another shot of the Hollywood sign. It was literally dozens of shots of the Hollywood, slow pan across the Hollywood sign. There was one segment, and I just thought that indicated for me early on that they haven't found a way to tell the story without kind of cheesy standard footage, bog standard B-roll footage.

20:09And there are loads of shots of going up the Sunset Boulevard. And I know you have to – it's hard to make documentaries without – Oh, yeah, the Walk of Fame. Yeah, the Hollywood Walk of Fame. For me, when it really lost it was when they suddenly decided about halfway through to get the showbiz journalists to explain that when people come to LA, they're often looking for stardom. And often that goes wrong. And they don't find it or they find it and it ends up being tragic and awful. And at that point, I thought this is an inane load of old nonsense. The best bits are that the only thing that saves it as makes it watchable is the fact that they use, and I don't really know how they've got around that, that they use Matthew Perry to narrate his own story because it is his audio book.

20:56I agree with, I totally agree with you. And one of the really awful bits is whether they, when they get two people outside Matthew Perry's house laying flowers and it, oh God, it's just, yeah, it is excruciating. I think one interesting thing that did raise though, which I think it's important to point out was, you know, his assistant has been, is part of this case, right? For injecting him and stuff like this. but I thought it was really interesting that they were sort of at pains to highlight that when you're in that role as an assistant, it's very difficult to say no. So that was interesting.

21:31But yeah, no. Yeah, they had an expert on kind of being a personal assistant to a subject who explained that. That was fine. I mean, I'm not saying, you know. No, I agree with you. I do agree. No, I agree. You just didn't need. I just think, you know, someone's got to say, look, this story is intrinsically fascinating in itself. and you have got you are able to use but you know the the recordings of him of his audio of his book and in various interviews that he did which by the oh the other thing the noise was they hadn't it looked very cheap because they hadn't really the the the footage they cut they used from like his interviews with um diane sorry it just looked very cheap and they hadn't really i don't know that there's something technically about the way they um incorporated those clips that was seemed very shoddy to me um so but they could have just told the story fairly straightforward it's such a powerful shocking story and you know the revelations about the doctors and and the and the live-in personal assistant were all shocking enough to not have to have people from the sun explaining what why people go to la for stardom he just didn't and i think it's just an example of filler and inane observations i've been there i've been i've been a talking head on many a you know cheapo show um not this kind of story really but and you and you're asked can you just explain to the viewers you know what this and i'm not blaming the contributors at all but i'm blaming the producers just having to fill it up with that kind of nonsense was just a real shame but don't you think i mean who is this made for do you know i mean like it's not made for it's kind of made for it's a very it's very basic and it gives you the basics of he's had a sad life He came to LA, he found fame, he got a drug addiction, then he died.

23:13That's the narrative, sure. Yeah, and even the bit at the end where they say after he died, they set up the Matthew Perry Foundation and they cut to a very, like a tiny clip of his family being interviewed about it. Yeah, it's a bad cuts job. That's what it is. Yeah, exactly. But it gives you the main points of the story. and I suppose viewers who are just looking for a very kind of easy just quick access this is what happened to Matthew Perry it's fine and yeah there is some interesting points I agree with you I think it's interesting they had that former celebrity assistant who came on and said you don't know what it's like being a celebrity being a celebrity assistant you do anything you do anything for them and that is that is that is basically what happened and if the person if the assistant says no I'm not going to do that for you then they get fired and they'll get someone else who won't do it lose their likelihood yeah and let's be honest This is far from the first time a celebrity assistant has done this kind of thing, or indeed a corrupt doctor has been involved in a celebrity's death or intricately involved in maintaining a celebrity's addiction.

24:17It is far from the first time. It does, almost despite itself, because it does explain the basics of the story. And the guy, I mean, the one talking head is the district attorney for the Central District of California. his actual title is the District Attorney at the Central District of California US Attorney's Office. That's his title. Yes. And he should always be referred to as such. Yes. Martin Estrada. He's the one, he is the single soul talking ahead of this whole torture show who you actually have some facts you want to hear from. Right. And he establishes the situation. You don't need all the other, really all the other people.

24:56I mean, that's a slight on Morgan Fairchild if ever I heard one. I'll accept Morgan Fairchild. But what was interesting is, because I watched the Lucy Leppard. Did you watch the Lucy Leppard show this week? Oh, don't, because I've got that. Okay, okay. We can talk about that. There's been two Lucy Leppard documentaries, one on ITV. And Panorama last night. And Panorama last night, as we're recording this on Tuesday. And the thing that I was going to say that linked these two shows is doctors, right? The doctors in the Lucy Leppard case, they're all disagreeing with each other they've got the same they're all looking at the same evidence and they cannot agree on what the fuck was going on in so many of the cases that she was found guilty of right and I just think when you become a doctor so one of my best friends is a doctor trained 70 years and he's amazing but just having qualified to be a doctor and being able to call yourself a doctor I think we all have to step back and go this does not guarantee that this person is a decent human being or even knows fully what they're talking about.

25:58And that's why I came away from both of them. The Lucy Lepishar came away from the end of going, well, doctors just don't know. Human. They're human. Yeah, they're just human beings. They're flawed. And in this one, it's more a case that they can actually not only be flawed, but be actively horrendous people. And of course they can. If you decide, particularly in America, it can be a very lucrative profession, can't it? Medicine, you know, and if you... Private practice and then having a prescription pad on the side is very lucrative. And also, of course, not all doctors. Some doctors are actually murderers.

26:31Not all doctors are going to be consummate professionals. Of course not. Absolutely. Anyway, I mean, yeah. It's probably, if you're interested in Matthew Perrin, and you kind of know vaguely the detail, you do get the facts of the case by the by. They do tell the story. But I just felt it was, for me, it was, as you say, it was a tawdry cuts job, yeah, essentially. But if you do want to watch Matthew Perry, A Hollywood Tragedy, it's on ITV1 and ITVX from next Monday at 9 o 'clock, August the 18th. And we need to say we're not just doing this because James is away and we're being renegade. It's because there weren't any new releases.

27:12Yeah, there isn't anything else on. We're in the height of summer. Silly season. Silly season, but there'll be some good shows to watch in the regular pilot show coming out on Monday. Oh, yes, there will be. Okay. Yes. Okay. So let's move on to the post bag.

27:34Ladies and gentlemen, it's Miss Kay versus the post bag.

27:48Okay, I'm going to start with a bit of live event feedback from Guy who says, just to thank one and all for a brilliant evening on friday rtd should be allowed to give his thoughts on anything whenever he wants to what russell's been watching would be a welcome addition to pilot plus oh that would be great agree yeah he could just send voice notes across and we could just play it i'm sure he's got the time he'll definitely do it just ask him he's not busy um steve said hey team i find my tv taste often aligns with james though a normie version but never more so than his aversion to reality TV I think hearing you guys talk about it for so long on pilot 349 was especially tough as it wasn't even my own country's version of the shows I don't watch so I don't know who any of the people are still always love your work but will be happy if reality talk is kept to what you've been watching only cheers wrist duly slapped I think if Russell wants to talk about stuff he can talk about it on this special podcast but But to be fair, I don't think I ever talk about it unless it's in what I've been watching.

28:50Like I talked about Clarkson's Farm in that section. So I can't... I think I brought up at the end, when it was any other stuff, I brought up the fact that there was a dating, you know, celebs go dating. Very briefly, that was right at the end. But maybe, you know, we talked about the guy from The Chase being on it. And, you know, I don't know. It might have been that that pushed him over the edge. Maybe just give Guy a warning before. Just say, Guy... This is Steve now. Oh, Steve. I'm sorry, this is Steve. Okay, sorry. It's fine. Apologia. Maybe just give the guy, Steve, a little warning before.

29:24Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you know what? I was really only doing that, mentioning celebs go dating to Phil because there wasn't anything else to discuss at the end of the show. So I really regret it now. Apologia. Apologia. Apologia. Apologia. Okay. Baha says, okay, so congrats on the milestone cake. I'm sorry to have had to rush to get my train and couldn't taste it, but it looked marvellous and you deserve it. Perhaps we need a new goal now. And they said, finally, this will probably make James' head explode, so you don't have to tell him. I'm going to. But there was a point in the live show I genuinely felt bad for him when you, Boyd, and Russell were all talking about soaps and quiz shows from reality TV.

30:04I must admit, I was almost as lost as he was. I'm famously one of the three foundation viewers along with James, Steph's husband, and should frankly be paid by Apple for how much I bang on about it and being the best streamer to my friends. On that note, I just want to say it's wonderful to get different perspectives on genres from you three, and the pod has definitely broadened what I watch and more importantly, how I talk about it. I've always been a bit like Boyd in how widely I watch everything and don't have too many hard absolutely not i'm outs except for true crime which i tend to avoid for very reasons to james but always appreciate steph's views whenever she's on oh still i discovered many wonderful shows through pilot and gave things i normally wouldn't uh give a shot after listening to reviews mr bates versus the post office being one of the recent examples what was this lady what was this lady's name bar her i don't know i said that right so that was a mild wrist slap at the beginning followed by a full full full commendation it was a do you know what it was it was a mild wrist slap and then a wrist caress yes that was so nice what a well thought out email as well oh it's a nothing if not um eloquent they're lovely yes and fair so it's i'm gonna i'm gonna find some true crime that they're gonna like i'm gonna try i'm gonna try some i'm gonna find some don't worry i'm gonna get you on a little bit of true crime oh i will that is her nice statement okay um okay christina says steph this is one for you christina from new jersey usa writing in i am born and raised in the us and i'm 44 and yes i do and every american i've ever heard does exactly what steph said we do regarding the vacation spot of the caribbean versus the movies sadly i didn't realize i slash we do that until she said it love you all oh my god thank you i I used to live in New Jersey.