PLUS The Abandons

0:07Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters and a podcast that has spent, frankly, the last hour. First of all, planning in extraordinary detail the various shows we're going to be doing in the run-up to during and after Christmas. When we're going to record them, how we're going to do it. we consider putting that out as this week's plus, you know, for you people to just see behind the scenes how it all gets done but then Boyd called me a massive C unit so we kind of abandoned the whole thing.

0:33Boydy:And not because of the idea because during the planning process they had a little to-do because... It wasn't a to-do. Well, I think if someone calls you a C word, James, I mean, it suggests it but no, not really a to-do. You know, I get it, I get it. Look, I voiced, you know, the fact that Boyd hadn't properly been entering stuff into the calendar and he reacted badly and that's absolutely fine. Just to give a little context, Boyd had stayed up very late organizing our Christmas viewing and James helpfully asked him, you know, when he just said he'd gone to bed very late because of it, said, oh yeah, but did you add it into the calendar?

1:04Boydy:Did you add it into the calendar? And then it all kicked off. It's all about context. Context or context? Very good. Yeah, very good. Yeah, I was being, I was just being brutally, brutally honest. Brutally playfully honest. Yeah. To be fair, I supported both of them because Boyd both walked into the trap of saying, oh yeah, I did all this. I knew it was coming because I was like, yeah, surely you put it in the calendar. Also, I think I just watched a show that had a lot of instances of the C word. Oh, really? Yeah, so I think I was kind of partly inspired by that. It's about a maverick genius.

1:38Boydy:I mean, James probably thinks it's about him. Please do not liken him to a maverick genius. I'll take that. So I've been called a C unit and a maverick genius. I'll take both of those. Fantastic. Well, yeah, so we have, you'll be pleased to know we have worked out when we're recording our review of the year it's all been painstaking the only thing that we have not discussed which I actually had planned to discuss before we did this but we've run out of time we need kids out of the studio so frankly we're just going to record it at this point how we're going to do the review of the year how we are going to do the review of the year and we've had a number of suggestions and I'm going to look at them here someone suggested that we do it as a kind of I'm going to find the emails right someone suggested here and this one came from it's like I'm doing an impromptu post bag this one came from Scott and Scott was saying is we do it as a knockout tournament where we pick 16 shows we can all agree are candidates and then have them go in little head-to-heads, I guess in some kind of football league type structure.

2:30Richard Osmond does the World Cup of Crisps. It's like doing that thing.

2:35Boydy:Oh, I thought you meant like it's a knockout, you know, physical. Walker's Taste Sensations, Thai Sweet Chili, just saying. Maybe, yeah. I like those as well. But also I love a knick-knack. But we're digressing. We're getting off track. But we could do that with shows and then that would be the Review of the Year podcast. but I just I'm not sure how well that would work I think it's a good suggestion I like it I am leaning towards Phil's suggestion though so we have and I think I've mentioned this in this podcast before we have in previously we've resisted you know the experiment that I like to call democracy whereby whereby you guys vote and I count your votes we have resisted that because frankly your judgement is terrible and you can't be trusted but no wait who are you talking about now the listeners are us let's not worry too much about the details but all I'm saying is all I'm saying because our tastes are very divergent, it makes constructing a list like that difficult.

3:22So, for example, the best show of the year, hands down, in my opinion, is Andor. That would not even appear on your list, okay? So, you're like, oh, so what we've normally done, what we've traditionally done is...

3:31Boydy:It's just done your list. Sure. I mean, look, you can call it that if you like, but what we've essentially done is, I have taken your list, you have given me lists, I have distilled them through the Pilot TV filter. Oh, God, if you could just see his body language right now, It's like he's pontificating, his hands are going in a real light, as if he's addressing the crowds from his mount. What was I? Maverick Genius, that was it. Right, and I have constructed a list which has often included things that we would not traditionally, or I would not traditionally watch. So there's been stuff on that list that I would not normally put on there.

4:11Boydy:He's made allowances for the fact that he's got two co-hosts. Right, so I've attempted to be, I mean, you could say magnanimous, I would say fair. So we've attempted to do that. But I'm wondering whether we take Phil's suggestion here and literally just let, and look, I know this makes me as uncomfortable as it will make you, we let democracy run its course. And we just vote, and we see where the chips fall. Yeah, I'm up for that. Or do you know what? No, that doesn't make sense, because... Why do you hate democracy? Why is it different to the usual way of doing it? Because, to be fair to you, you do take into account shows you haven't.

4:47I do. I remember when we did I May Destroy You that year which is going back what, like five years or something? You know, that was in the top three, wasn't it? It was joint number one. Even though you couldn't bear to watch more than like ten minutes of it. I watched three episodes but yes, you are right. Remember, he's never walked succession, he doesn't watch shows. All of these shows were high up on the list. I don't, if we just, yeah, I don't think, I think we need to. To be fair,

5:09Boydy:my bit feedback is I think we largely agree on the big shows. I do, right? And when it's a big sci-fi show, I'm happy to stand aside because I don't watch sci-fi and you generally tend to agree. So the only things the only stipulations I ever have is that we fully sort of reflect the breadth of diversity in the storytelling and I also want us to consider at least one entry of comedy because you know again reflecting I mean you know how I feel about that but sure. I know but you know how we feel about you and we still get on so it's like do you know what I mean? Boyd has made that very clear yes.

5:42There would be comedy in any way well you say that but Yeah, it depends. But do you know what? I hate to be boring, but I think the way we normally do it is the way we normally do it. Yeah, I agree. I actually agree. I love Scott's World Cup of TV shows. It's a lovely idea, but I think it's too complicated. I think what should happen is... The three of us do our list of the top 20 of the year, and then we kind of cobble together a fair reflection of that 20, based partly on what people have and haven't seen because they don't like those genres. and I'm including him in comedy in that and you in sci-fi.

6:18I'm, you know, I'm an all-rounder. I acknowledge all genres. And yeah, we just do it the way we do it. I don't think there's any better way of doing it.

6:25Boydy:My tweak is what we usually do, which is that you two come up with your lists and then I scatter in a few of my favourites. Oh, that's right. You don't like to present me with a list, do you? You like to just... I usually do about 10 or 15. Drop in this list, this and this and I'll let you go. I come up with... It's not always 20. I just come up with an eight list. Well, you can do whichever way you... Yeah, Kay refuses to follow basic instructions. I remember in the past I've said can you give me your top 20 and you'll give me like your top 6 and then that's it because it's because you're telling me to do she will not be told yeah okay well so we are going to have a list we'll check it twice we're going to find out who's been naughty Kay and nice me but in many ways it's becoming clear to me Boydie that list wise you are the voice of reason oh god because Kay and I are kind of polarized yeah yeah yeah but you are like how are you only just realizing that except it's going to be it's going to be like the top three it'd be like whatever Russell Tovey's done this year and then and then whatever boy's got a cameo in after that nice try I love the land of the sea of the water and whatever it's one of my favourites the land of the sea it was very good sea devils it was very good yeah yeah alright fine there will be voting there will be a list we will have it in our review of the year podcast which we can exclusively reveal landing in your ears on the 29th of December so there will not be a regular podcast out on the 29th but what we will have instead is the review of the year that will go on the 29th instead and there's a special Christmas treat even though the last regular podcast will be this year on the 22nd there will be a special Pilot Plus episode that we are going to record before Christmas and that will land like Father Christmas He's gone high pitch because the volume of pods we're recording in the next two weeks is insane It's getting insane because we want to record the one for the new year the one on the 5th we want to do that before we break up for Christmas I don't think there's going to be any time in the next two weeks where I'm not with the boys It's true And also it's the Pilot TV Christmas party tomorrow night Yeah It is Exactly Exactly.

8:12Boydy:I'm hoping for a photo booth. Yeah, we are hoping for a photo booth. If not, we're going to have to do a selfie. Yeah, it's going to be fun. Yeah, a pod feed. It's going to be fun. Should we get on with this podcast? Please, God. Please, yes. Right, we are gathered here today to discuss Netflix's The Abandons, which is Kurt Sutter's new show. Or is it? Because Kurt Sutter, as you heard the other week, abandoned The Abandons mid-production, and I believe it was finished by the remaining EP and possibly the either assistant director or the DOP. I think it was one of the ADs. Suffice it to say, he has left.

8:38He had creative differences with Netflix and therefore abandoned the abandons.

8:42Boydy:It's a nice little story. It is, isn't it? I'm a big fan of Kurt Sutter's stuff, but let's just say he has a history of having difficulties on productions. Oh, really? Yeah. He got thrown off Mayans MC for a variety of reasons, but you can find all about that on the internet. Nothing like super dodgy, but he's... Are you saying he's a tricksy character? I'm saying, you know, if you can imagine, he's a bit of a maverick genius, a little bit of a dictator, a little bit of a nightmare. You know, I imagine a lot of this sort of probably sprung from a discussion about someone hadn't put the production schedule on the shared calendar.

9:16I don't know. It's hard to say.

9:19Boydy:Okay, it's got the touch of the guys. At least you've identified yourself as the Kurt Sutter of this podcast. I don't know quite how that happens. Anyway, this is a West... Another maverick genius. That's right, another maverick genius. Or C-Unit, depending on your point of view. Yeah. I know which way I live. There's a big crossover in the C-Unit maverick genius. Yeah, the Venn diagram is more of just a circle. Exactly. Yeah. So, so... Very good. This is Lena Headey as an Irish homesteader. I will not do the accent. Do not worry. She does one, but it's better than mine. And she has a found family of sort of orphans and abandoned kids.

9:50And she's essentially trying to protect her home from the avaricious eye of Gillian Anderson's Constance Van Ness. And they're kind of, I guess, European aristocracy, but she runs essentially the silver mine in this town. And so it's a bit of a territorial dispute. and it gets rather pointed when Constance's oldest son, Willem, enters the picture. Now, Kay, you watched this quite early, as I recall. So you had screenings. Now, both of you did. You were both very keen to get on this particular wagon.

10:18Boydy:Oh, well done. Yes, and do you know what? I really enjoyed it. Now, before we begin, I wanted to ask, did we have unfinished screeners? I don't think so. Okay, in which case, the first few scenes, I felt there was no depth to the scene. LED volume? Is that what it is? I don't know. No idea. I mean, I've never... No depth to that, what do you mean? Like the CGI, whatever, the background just felt very flat. Oh. And put it like this, it's not something I ever really notice usually. Funnily enough, I didn't notice. That's normally an LED volume sign, when it feels like the background is very close and very flat.

10:51That's often an LED wall thing. But I didn't notice one here, unless I'm off my game.

10:57Boydy:No, well, that's unlikely to say. It's probably my TV, my ancient TV. Something is probably conking out slowly before my eyes. But anyway, that aside, I really enjoyed this. As you said, Gillian Anderson is Constant Van Ness, who is the cruel matriarch. And she is on brilliant form because she is acidic. She's, as I said, cruel. She's on this kind of land grab for this. Apparently, this land is on a silver load. And she wants to get it. And she has the means to do it. And she will try and get it by any means possible, including driving cattle off the side of a ridge, which I think is particularly cruel.

11:35Boydy:The castle obviously belonging to the other families. She meets her match very much so in Lena Headey's character, Fiona, who, as you said, she's like the leader of an unadopted family. And they go at it hammer and tongs. However... Not like that. No, not like that. But, you know, they are at odds with each other about this issue. But things escalate quickly by the behaviour of Willem, which is abhorrent. and suddenly what started off as a simple you know like two warring families about land becomes something much more about the moral rights and wrongs of um the behavior that's occurred and it you know like that's it they're all bets are off and it's all out war and i just was found it so gripping it is horror like there are scenes that are difficult but the storytelling is is brilliant and you're so invested in these characters um and you feel compassion for a certain number of them.

12:28Boydy:And I actually felt compassion for the children of Gillian Anderson because, you know, at one point she says... Well, two of them anyway. Not Willem. Not Willem, absolutely not. But, you know, at one point she's... You know, because her relationship with the children is very fraught and at one point she's like, motherhood's a thankless endeavour and she wins no awards for being Mother of the Year, let's put it like that. But yeah, it's epic, I think, and I really enjoyed it. So I will continue to watch. Kay will not abandon the abandons. I won't. Boydie, will you abandon the abandons? No, I will find time to carry on watching it as well.

13:03Do you remember, Netflix has tried to do westerns before. Do you remember how long ago American Primeval was on, without checking it? It's last year. No, this year. It's the beginning of this year. It's this year? Yeah, it's the beginning of this year. I thought it was like years ago. No. No, I would say American Primeval, we gave short shrift to. I think I described it as misery porn. And I just thought, this is too grim, I'm not watching it. Alex Godfrey of the Empire Parish very much enjoyed it and thought it was very good. I quite enjoyed it. Which one was that? Frontiersman. The thing is, I suppose it's like, and I know that sexual violence was a fact of life in the Old West, but equally, I feel like a lot of these, and frankly, I include this show in it, a lot of these shows do lean into that.

13:45Yeah. And I just think it's a bit unnecessary. It's quite similar. They're quite similar shows because they both kind of depict that element of it and just all around violence. Yeah. the lawlessness of the West. But interestingly, because this is a Kurt Sutter show and Kurt Sutter is known for his graphic, very shocking violent scenes, I thought this was quite restrained. And I don't know that's because he's not on the show anymore. But I thought the violence in this, while very there, was not gratuitous. And even the sexual violence, and there is a trigger warning on the first episode for this, one of the Netflix subject things, I thought I was dreading that scene.

14:17And actually, obviously it wasn't nice, but it wasn't as bad as I had feared it would be. Yeah, no, it wasn't. Yeah, there might have been, who knows where. Well, yeah, it's entirely possible they might have stepped in. Because I read that the opening episode... This is all speculation. It has been reported that the opening episode was feature-length. Right, yes. And it's got splintered too, isn't it? Now it's episodes one and two. Yeah, so I really like Westerns, and this is very much the kind of thing that I enjoy. And I think he's done a really good job of transplanting his sensibility from The Sons of Anarchy slash...

14:54What's the other one called? Boston Executioner, The Shield, Mayans MC. Mayans MC, which was a spin-off. I mean, The Shield wasn't his show, but he... Exactly, yes. And Pat Starr, didn't it? An Albanian gangster who cut off people's feet. There you go. Talking of violence. So, and I think, yeah, so I think it's weird that he has walked out on it, or that this has led to, you know, him leaving the show as showrunner, because it's so... I think it has got his sensibility. It is quite bleak and hard and tough. but for me it's all about the warring matriarchs that Lena Headey and Gillian Anderson characters and Gillian Anderson is fantastic she's just fresh off trespasses on Channel 4 which we didn't ever review on this show because it fell one of those ones that fell into the week weirdly I watched some of it the other day and it's really really good and she's phenomenal she's a standout in that kind of playing a tough kind of weak figure and in this she's absolutely insanely horrible both to her offspring and to everyone she comes up against and she basically wants to steal the land because there is silver in there and she will, yeah, do it by any means necessary.

16:02So I thought she was fantastic. And all the scenes where they're confronting each other, that's when it really comes alive. The rest of it is interesting as well, don't get me wrong. And the whole idea of Lena Headey's character gathering these kind of orphans and misfits and people without anywhere to go is really interesting. And again, it feels like a very Kurt Sutter kind of thing because I think the people that find their families in his other shows, in Sons of Anarchy.

16:25Boydy:Found families. Found families and all of that. Also how she tries to get the other families together, right? To collaborate, to take on Gillian Anderson's character. Yeah, absolutely. Those moments are really well done. So it is very dramatic. I think it's more... The thing about American Primeval was it was equally raw, maybe even more violent, but I didn't feel the narrative... it didn't feel much, it had much dramatic drive, whereas this feels, it has real impetus to it. You want to watch the next episode, don't you? Yeah, and you want to carry on watching it. Yeah, so I think it's very good.

16:58Yeah, so I'd be fascinated to know what happens to it after in the post-Curt Sutter era. Yeah, will it continue and how? Yeah, I guess it depends on how well it does. Yeah, I think so. Otherwise, if I find another showrunner, they'll kill it. It depends on how many people watch it. But I, so I really enjoyed it. I watched four, I think, four episodes of this. Oh, wow. Yeah, I liked it. I felt like it had some of the edges sanded off it and I do wonder whether that's a Kurt Sutter departure because I watched it before I knew he'd left and I was like, I thought this is surprisingly restrained for a Sutter show.

17:27Boydy:So what do you mean in terms of the violence? Yeah, like, there, yes, I think gratuitous violence is part of it but there is a, there is a very bleak nihilism to his form of storytelling and don't get me wrong, there are hints of it here without a doubt but it felt, but nothing like, like American Primeval, like this is the Diet Coke version of Primeval, like American Primeval is brutal I felt this felt much more palatable it's not the Waltons right it's not Bonanza but equally you know it's not American Primeval and I guess I was a little bit surprised not disappointed but a little bit surprised by that but yeah I think more than anything else it is those two leads because they're both fabulous and everything and they're so so much fun to watch and obviously it's got some of the the Kurt Sutter players in the right Ryan Hurst is in there as well as this kind of like with his little round glasses as a religious and slightly domineering father one of the one of the homesteaders, Michael Hussman, is in it, as the world's most handsome outlaw.

18:21He's quite a key figure, isn't he? Because he's brought in to, kind of, investigate, um, for Julian Anderson. Yes. Like, what the fuck's going on? He's a wrongan. Yes. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, he is, from the get-go, that's not a spoiler. No. He's literally an outlaw, which he hires. Absolutely. totally. Uh, but yes, just a very dashing one. Yeah. The best kind. The best kind of outlaw. the best kind of outlaw but yeah it's really really good I will press on with it and see how it goes my concerns a little bit are what Netflix do with it do you know what I mean because without Sutter there like are they going to actively find someone else are they not like what are the chances let's have to find another maverick to come in yeah James are you available

18:56Boydy:yeah that's it I'll take over as James' agent I will reclaim the abandons I'm taking bids anyway this is on the Netflix as of today now I believe yeah now TV today Thursday, the 4th of December, 2025. The abandons, then. Let's have the post bag. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Miss Kay versus the post bag.

19:35Boydy:And it is a gigantic bag. A Christmas post bag, a bulging Santa sack. No, no, it's not Santa sack yet. Don't get too extra. This is just the normal post bag, but it's bulging. And I start with a message from Hannah, who says, Hello to the top TV reviewing gurus who bring joy, sometimes outrage. I haven't seen the Bake Off final. Oh, God, sorry, Hannah. And who generally make my week a bit better. I'm Hannah, daughter of Joe, who wrote in last week. My mum bought me the subscription for Christmas a year ago, and I'm thrilled to find out via the postbag that my subscription has been continued for another year.

20:10Boydy:Do you remember we discussed last week, Jo got in touch to say, I didn't think of that through when I read it out. And she said, what a fab surprise, already my favourite present and I recommend everyone sign up a family member for Christmas. Thanks, mum. Enjoying the fact that you've ruined Christmas. That's good, well done. I'm sorry, but listen, if she's got a fantastic mum called Jo who bought this brilliant present, what am I to do? I want to celebrate Jo. So anyway. Also, Jokin, I apologise now for Boyd dropping C-bombs in front of Hannah. Obviously, that's disgraceful and we don't condone that kind of behaviour.

20:40Boydy:Yes, I do think Hannah's an adult. Yeah, that's true. And also, I believe she would also feel like, say what you see. Wow. And anyway, so Hannah says, keep up the fabulous work, guys. And she said, P.S., there is no such thing as too many West Wing rewatches. I agree. Yeah. So thanks, Hannah. Well, we know you agree. I mean, it's not... Now moving on to a message from Sam who says, given the enthusiasm you have all expressed for the new Doctor Who spinoff I wonder if you guys might try reconsidering Torchwood specifically series 3 subtitled Children of Earth yes Boyd has answered this is a valid point yes Sam not Boyd says it's also a five part series it was broadcast over the course of one week when it aired Monday to Friday and the story playing out over the same time period you can get by fine without having seen the previous two series all you need to know is Torchwood is a clandestine organisation dealing with alien threats in Cardiff, and the main character, Captain Jack Harkness, is seemingly immortal.

21:42Boydy:The story follows the team investigating why all the world's children suddenly start talking in unison, oh my God, what a nightmare, while simultaneously following Peter Capaldi as a civil servant navigating the government response to the incident and desperately trying to cover up their involvement. The truth is this could have easily been adapted into a story entirely unrelated to the Hooniverse and would still work brilliantly. The politics feel chillingly close to reality and the villains have possibly the single most unique and horrifying motivation I've ever seen. It's an underrated sci-fi masterpiece.

22:13Boydy:Love this show and all the best, Sam. So, Peter Capaldi plays someone who isn't the Doctor. That's confusing. Was this before he became the Doctor? Yeah, absolutely. Well, Russell Tovey played someone in Doctor. Russell Tovey was in the Christmas special, Voyage of the Damned, with Kylie Minogue years ago. What? That was the one on the ship. Yeah, the one on the ship. He's been in Doctor Who. With Kylie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it's allowed that you're allowed to pop up if you've been previously in the Hooniverse. But it's a very good point. And I meant to mention that. I thought maybe I did mention it.