PLUS The Comeback and Peaky Blinders: The Immortal Man

0:07Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters. on this week's plus we have not one but two things to review and one of them one of them is a film no wait please please do not go do not go we've not in fact turned into the empire film podcast but we did think that letting stephen knight's peaky blinder swan song go without any recognition at all would be an egregious oversight steph for a tv podcast yes even if you know it's feature length uh but look let's not get into all things peaky just yet because first of all let's dive into the comeback the comebacks comeback to be precise uh this is michael patrick king and lisa kudrow's cringetastic comedy uh about nightmare actor valerie cherish who like the rest of us is coming face to face with the rise of ai uh and it's been what 12 years since season two so i guess the question is was it worth coming back for now i'm thinking i'm gonna make an assumption steph that you don't watch the comeback would that be an accurate assumption Why are you making that assumption?

1:08Because I'm a terrible person, but I'm just assuming. I didn't watch it. Yeah, okay, good. I'm correct. But why did you make that assumption that I didn't watch it? I'm really surprised because I love Curb Your Enthusiasm and I feel like this is like a female Curb Your Enthusiasm in many ways. Yeah, then it's quite surprising that you haven't watched this. I don't know why I didn't watch this. I really don't know why I didn't watch it. As I was watching, I watched three episodes of this, which is all I was given. You may have been given more. and I was like why on earth didn't I watch this this is absolutely fantastic and it's also like I said it's like a I have a huge as Boyd is you know uh Curb Your Enthusiasm fans was like this is basically Curb Your Enthusiasm with Lisa Kudrow in it Kudrow your enthusiasm indeed and then because I've watched these three obviously now I'm going to watch series one and series two which Boyd you can tell me if they're just as good I thought it was absolutely fantastic it it's so I mean James obviously you're going to hate this but it's so cringingly true to life and what a lot of us are experienced as I would say slightly older journalists slightly older people in the media having to deal ourselves with the the advent of AI and AI supposedly assisting us with absolutely everything we're doing and how brilliant it's going to be and also even for me I mean I don't know how active you guys are I mean obviously I I'm not very active on social media because I'm not very good at it and don't do loads and loads of crazy things that people would be excited about unlike Boydie um but just the whole thread the way through where she's having to deal with being on social media and what's good for social media is it's it was hilarious to me it I have to say it kind of felt like a bit like my life story in many ways I was like oh god this has happened to me she based it on you famously she she probably did yeah I have to say there's so many unbelievably brilliant lines in this, but I have got to, I've got to just say this line, which is basically how I feel about how I feel every day at work, where she says to her husband, look, don't worry.

3:03You told a joke at work at a time when jokes were illegal. And it's so true. Like I say things now, sometimes in our conference and I can see the younger people who are all wonderful looking at me as if to say, oh my God, you need to be canceled immediately. You can't say that anymore. so yeah I don't know how much we're allowed to say about the have they released who kind of the guest stars of each episode are because obviously loads of people like Curb loads of people pop up so can I say do you think I think so yeah I mean maybe the first episode because there's nothing so Fran Drescher I don't know if you guys watch episode 2 the person who comes up in episode 2 which I thought episode 2 was the best of all the three episodes I watch is amazing but Fran Drescher is in the first episode because they're dealing with the writer's strike.

3:53And I'm a huge friend of Russia fan because I love The Nanny. So did you guys ever watch The Nanny? You probably didn't, James, because you don't like comedy. But she's, I mean, God, she's unbelievable. So yeah, just the interaction of Lisa Kutcher, it's so, it's just... She is head of the Actors Union, isn't she? She is head of the Actors Union. So she was. So that's what I mean, like Curb. It's people playing themselves. They are guest stars because Andrew Scott's in episode two which is that's the person yeah and he plays the studio that's the person I wasn't saying I wasn't going to say him he's been named in the cast yeah he's been named in the cast yeah he's brilliant so he's like the head of this this new kind of AI development but the AI is this dirty word and the way they deal with it it's so clever it's so slick there's a really funny bit I love the bit where he's on a massive Zoom call and there's about 50 people on the Zoom call and he which is the first you see of his character and the leg he stops the zoom call he ends it and then he walks in two seconds later yeah and he's been down the hall he's been doing it down the corridor yeah which is very much identified with that yeah sorry well we're on many of those kinds of calls where there's millions of people but the other thing I particularly liked about the guest stars in here is like where there's little guest appearances from very famous people they're used so well so there's Jane Fonda appears in it for one scene and she's she wants to get on her social media and she's it's just it's really really sharp it's clever it's it's funny and it has a really a device it's not even a device but something this is such a small thing which I really enjoyed as the credits roll the scene is still happening and I really enjoy that you know so often now it's very much opening scene show end credits roll this is still going to really think it adds to the humor I know it's small detail but I really like that Boydy did you love it as much as I did and how many have you watched I've watched six oh I'm jealous did you get six I've got all eight now actually I would have watched the whole thing but I had to go to bed I mean I loved the show since it arrived in series one 2005 there was like a nine year gap before season two so it got cancelled I read it got cancelled Yeah, it was a kind of cult phenomenon, I would say, rather than a popular success.

6:16It never really got, even though, you know, everyone loves Lisa Kudrow from Friends, and even though it tapped into all the stuff that's going on in the business, in the show business world, brilliantly. I think it was so, I don't know, it was, in a weird way, it was kind of relentlessly kind of punishing in its depiction of Hollywood. and that actually got slightly lighter and less intense I'm just trying to looking at why it wasn't a big hit so yeah HBO cancelled it after one season then they brought it back about 9-10 years later and now as James said there's a 12 year gap she's kind of like David Brent she's the David Brent of she's more David Brent I think than she than she is in a weird way Larry David yeah she's kind of bumbling and doesn't really understand stuff.

7:11It's that that makes her really funny, I think. Yeah, whereas Larry in Curb, he's not ignorant. He's up with, do you know what I mean? He's kind of in touch with pop culture almost more than she is. She lags behind. He's just more perpetually frustrated. It's like, I know, but there is an amazing scene where she's extreme, Larry David, where she meets with a wardrobe designer, which I was like, oh, this is total curb. Yeah. But she's much less – I think she's more passive-aggressive. Like, that's why I'm comparing it to David Brent. Yeah. And less just aggressive, which Larry is in Curb. Yeah.

7:53You know what I mean? But anyway, she's a cross between the two. Let's say that. Yes, okay. Yeah. But it's a brilliant, brilliant performance because, you know, it's a proper comedy character that she's created, I think, up there with those guys and you know alan partridge etc this this she's it's a phenomenal it's just brilliant to watch her doing this role so and remember you may not realize this steph but i interviewed michael patrick king who's co-creator of the show co-writer of the show with her um late last year when and just like that was finishing and i asked him whether he'd bring back the comeback and it hadn't been announced at that point and he kind of went oh well funny you should say that i mean talks it's good it was a scoop exclusive for this podcast So I'm saying this podcast was intimately involved in the revival of The Comeback.

8:41And I challenge anyone to disprove that. So I love the show. I was worried about it because you want it to capture what made it special to start with. And I think they have. They've brought back. They bring back the documentary director from the first two seasons who's now working in Trader Joe's in LA. there's loads of having been to la recently on my lavish freebie trip thanks to apple i particularly enjoyed all the la references like the the jane fonda scene is at soho house in um in la in hollywood in west hollywood there's loads of stuff about you know all that just that whole world that whole milieu if you like if i can use that word and i have uh so it's true he has i have so the Her husband is still a kind of lovely guy, but slightly useless and unhelpful.

9:34He goes off to the Burning Man Festival in episode five. I think it is brilliantly. Oh, my God. Yeah. And there's a brilliant opening where you see a little glimpse of what she's been doing in the 10 years. You get the idea that she's just been doing anything and everything, including a version of Chicago, that she's absolutely used to that. You know how this is so rang true, because obviously all comedic actors and actresses feel they can do Broadway or the West End or whatever, and she gets a complete disaster. And I thought that was really funny to start with. There's one, I would say, there's one or two brilliant scenes every single episode.

10:14And this is true of the first two seasons as well, that sometimes it's a bit meandering and it feels a little bit ramshackle, but I think it's part of the whole way it's done, which is that the whole thing is kind of done through almost found footage, and either there's a documentary team shooting her or there's a reality show shooting her or in this case, she's got her own social media girl that's shooting her all the time on her iPhone. But then it gets to the point where her agent has got a camera crew following him because he's in the 50, over 50 in variety. And then he gets a, this is upper most of my mind because this is the episode I just watched.

10:53Then he gets a therapist to do couples therapy with him and her. And the therapist is being filmed as well for a potential pilot. So there's this hilarious scene where all of these camera crews are getting in each other's way and literally falling over. And I thought that summed up what I love about the show. It's like it might take a while to get to the joke sometimes. And interestingly, HBO is encouraging everyone to watch the whole series before they review it. And I think that's just because the whole structure of the show is a lot of stuff builds up to a big set piece laugh. And sometimes it takes a while to get there, but it's always worth it in the end.

11:29So I'm fully on board. I'm loving it. And it's just great fun to hang out with Valerie Cherish and watch her being a complete monstrous doofus of an actress. That's really interesting that they're asking people to, you know, I'm a great, I'm a big advocate of watching more than one. and I like I said I only had three so I could only watch three but I think yeah if I had maybe only watched one I wouldn't have you know wouldn't have been going oh I think this is actually really brilliant because it is some of the jokes are a slow burn joke so you have to be committed yeah I have to say the first episode I was a little bit disappointed yeah the Chicago episode the Broadway episode I thought the Chicago thing was really funny but then it kind of reintroduces the characters it's a bit like a kind of treading water type of thing but then episode two onwards it really motors I would say Yeah, I had the feeling after episode one, this is something you've got to watch more episodes of.

12:22So it's interesting they've also said that. The other thing I'd like to point out about it is they deal with the death of the character Mikey really well. And that's what actually, I was like, God, I really need to go and see what their relationship was like in the first two seasons. Because obviously he died, the actor died in real life. And it's really beautifully done, isn't it? It's really, they've done that really well. So that's another. Yeah, there's a couple of moments where they're paid tribute to him, which is you can tell that she's really actually moved, because he died in real life, yeah, for sure.

12:56There's also, by the way, James Burrows, the legendary sitcom director of Cheers, Frasier, all of them, friends. He pops up again. He's been in it before, and he pops up again to direct her show, and it's hilarious. And the whole AI thing, by the way, is just – That becomes the whole kind of running theme of it is AI and trying to keep it a secret that the show is being written by AI. And that stuff works brilliantly. I loved all that stuff. Yeah, I mean, the brilliance of the show is it's super, super meta and it's grounded in reality. And there's so much of it. I was like, oh my God, this is me.

13:28This is me. This is me. And I think to your point about her being kind of more passive aggressive, I think that's just the female take on that kind of character that Larry. Larry doesn't need to be passive aggressive because he doesn't care as much about people's feelings. but she's actually still, you know, she delivers the lines with kind of that frustrating, you know, she's so frustrated, but she still needs to be nice, you know, and it's to brilliant comic effect. Like you say, what an amazing character for her to have developed. But I'm really interested to know behind the scenes, when the first season was cancelled, and obviously they then got a second season, why they decided to bring it back?

14:07Do you know? I think it became a cult phenomenon in the title. It didn't get much attention or viewers, many viewers, when it first started. I think it went under the radar for some reason. But I think while it was off there, this happens a lot, while it was off there, being off there made the show in a way, and then more people discovered it and it became a real, have you seen the comeback? Have you seen it? Comeback fans, it's like a kind of open secret of the show, how brilliant the show was. But yeah, it didn't feel like a mainstream proposition. It was quite edgy, you know, perhaps slightly less edgy now, but even the AI stuff.

14:39but I'm fascinated to know James has just been sitting there patiently I don't think you are I don't think anyone James listen right listeners you can't if you could imagine this face this face which says I want them to stop talking about a show that I hate so I can I can launch into everything I think about the Peaky Blinders film that's that's the face he's making okay that's that's quite a good reading of my face yeah I mean I don't think anyone needs to hear me talk about this I mean it was I mean especially as I have only watched the first episode and you guys are like you really can't judge on the first episode i you know i got to the end of the first episode and i kind of thought well that was only half an hour i should probably watch the next one and i hovered over the remote button and i was just like i just can't do it i cannot it was an endurance test for me to get through the first 30 minutes i thought i can't i can't voluntarily masochistically you know inflict another episode of this upon myself because i mean i find cringe comedy so excruciating that it causes me actual bodily pain and so it's it's just horrendous it was horrendous so dramatic you are honestly you are so dramatic why that like it's not all cringe comedy though is it i mean it kind of is so basically you've got two things here she's dreadful and it's incredibly cringy but she is like that's the point she's a dreadful human being right like i don't think that's controversial that's not to say you're that's not to say you don't like her but she is dreadful i think she's an understandable human being in in the state of the world now i think her her temperament and her personality are completely understandable like oh god i could totally see she says the thing she says some things that you would like to say but you really can't does she sometimes she's just somewhat narcissistic and rude and self-obsessed and all of these sort of things like she's not in any way someone i would ever want to be friends with in real life because she's dreadful so you have that element of it and then obviously then the cringe stuff is just like oh my god oh my god stop stop stop stop stop yeah it's it's just as you know i have no tolerance for franchignment whatsoever and this entire comedy is built on the back of that idea so i could yeah i can't do it at all it's like an allergy think of it as an intolerance i'm like it's like it's like the celiac disease of comedy i have i have a like a just an autoimmune response to cringe okay i'm going to respect your opinion but i'm going to ask you something can you name one redeeming feature of this for you anything that you liked yes no completely like because i you know i'm not really i don't think it's a bad show at all i think it's really well constructed i love the references they make to you know like when she's she's on strike with fran dresser and the writer strikes it's set in what 2023 the first episode is uh so you know all of that which is all lived stuff and the conversations they have and the little observations like it's very well thought through when she's posing for a picture it's like i've got to do it quickly and then she rejects the picture and then the other one rejects the picture just their little observations that ring very true and so they're funny because they are incredibly relatable and they're very well observed like that's that's great but it is cringy it's awkward and excruciating but it's very very well observed the studio interestingly does that very well as well and is also very cringy but i find the cringe in the studio less painful and i think i think it's not quite as pointed i think this show has quite pointed cringe in it in the same way the curb has which i find harder to deal with or as i find the studio is a slightly sort of almost like a slightly moderate a slightly dulled down version of cringe comedy which i can just about get through Yeah, because he's less of an extreme character, I think.

18:12In the studio, you kind of identify with him. Yeah, he's super awkward, super awkward. So there are definite moments of it. There are, but I think, yeah, it's a bit weird that you like the studio because it's still pretty cringe. It took me six months to get through the studio, bear that in mind, because I had to kind of brace myself for each episode. So, yeah, I just, Fram Chime-In is just not something that I can easily deal with. But most shows like, you know, The Office and a lot of Ricky Gervais' oeuvre, I have struggled with a great deal. We need to get to the bottom of this because I feel like you're really massively missing out.

18:48I mean, listen, Steph, we've been doing this for seven years or however long. Eight. Eight years. It's not going to happen now. I know. I know. But there must be some, there must be one of these kinds of shows that he likes. I just, I'm going to say it, James. I think you need to open your heart to cringe comedy a bit more. I have tried. and even Succession I took runs of Succession I think three times to try and get through that and I was just like I just can't do it Okay well I'm going to respect your boundaries Thank you It literally means he hasn't watched like you know a handful of the greatest shows of all time but you know it's fine It stresses me out so much Boyd it really really does I think I think I am as you know I'm fully against people I know that I have this thing about starting again things but I'm going to have a surprise because I've watched to starting again thing on the main podcast because I like to challenge myself I generally have a rule that you cannot dislike a genre okay because you should just like tv if it's a good show so you shouldn't discount a genre okay and so I'm saying there's definitely something that I am going to find James you're going to be like this is fantastic but for the moment I'm going to respect your boundaries I agree with you broadly on the genre I think you can have like preferences certainly but obviously but Kay bear in mind completely rules out anything fantasy or science fiction on principle like she just will not does not yeah but she's never wrong so just like me okay right so she's allowed that but i think with me a lot of people have that though a lot of people have yeah you know because yeah i mean it's difficult isn't it because i suppose yes but yeah but she it's because she can't find an access point like it doesn't it doesn't chime with her perceived reality so she can't find an access point so for me silly comedy does something similar to me there i it doesn't feel real to me it feels so artificial that i can't quite access it in the same way so i think i do sympathize with on that i think this this is a different thing so this is less about preferences like you know when people like they're they might be a massive cineast but they can't watch horror films because they don't like being scared like fundamentally the point of horror films is to scare you they find it too upsetting emotionally therefore they just don't watch horror films because they just haven't got the tolerance for kind of the emotional overload that's the closest thing i can compare this to because i find cringe so excruciating it's the emotional state that i object to rather than the content of the show if that makes sense can i just say though i feel sure that k loved the um that land and sea thing that um well yeah she did like that she did like that occasionally much like myself she will have things that that that you know exceptions that prove the rule and also james tends to exaggerate her aversion to science fiction i do i i don't think i do because she has like a a handful of things in those genres.

21:31I would say generally she is very much on the, if it's a good show, if it's a good enough show, she will like it. She wouldn't watch it out of choice. No, no, no. Just because she doesn't like Foundation, doesn't mean she's like it. That's the reason, really. That's what we're talking about here. She didn't like Foundation. Yeah, she doesn't like Foundation, so you've taken against her and said she doesn't like sci-fi. Yes. Okay, well, you're in trouble. You'll be getting a message from HR, okay, from me. that seems perfectly reasonable now you can talk about Peaky Blinders gone and should I just want to say that I on I'm the only one who hasn't seen Peaky Blinders because I am not VIP enough to have got to have been invited to a screening to watch Peaky Blinders let's all get our mini violins out for me yes so it is available this week on Netflix but it was only available to critics to see in the cinema they would only put on screenings they wouldn't give us links to it but come back then when is that on boydie it's on sky comedy and now from monday the 23rd of march 2026 and i think it will also be on hbo max when it launches on the 26th of march so it's a slightly strange situation where because it's an old show and all on running on running is that the right word um all running shows that sky have shown before they still have the rights to yeah that's right so if it first aired on Sky then they still have it.

22:53So that's why it's also going to be on Sky. It's actually on Sky first in this situation because HBO Max isn't launching until a few days later but it will also be on HBO Max so it's slightly confusing. Oh my god and I just got an email which said now Disney Plus is free with my Sky subscription. What is going on? What's happening? What's happening is that Sky and now are trying to, you know, are embracing all of these different channels and trying to rationalise them and make it clear to their subscribers that you don't have to subscribe individually to all of these bloody streaming services.

23:22Can I cancel my Disney Plus subscription then? I don't know. This feels like a bit of personal admin. Yeah, it is admin. I don't know. It might be different rules for current subscribers as opposed to new subscribers, but I think possibly you might be able to, yeah. But yeah, double check. I'm not sure. Oh, well. Thank you. Thank you, Boyd. This is Boydy's streaming clinic. If you're free to write in. Yeah. And I'm not being paid for by Sky. Or HBO Max. okay let's get into Peaky Blinders the immortal man to give it his full title which picks up years after Peaky Blinders season six and there's one set during the second world war Tommy's retreated from active Peaky Duty now this did as we mentioned debut in cinemas it is a film yet for the purposes of this podcast we're going to treat it as a one-off television and cinematic dramatic drama event thing aren't we Boydie yes it is right like this is this is a film but it It is, to all intents and purposes, a single feature-length season seven of Peaky Blinders.

24:26Really, isn't it? You could do it that way. I mean, you know, you could look at it that way. But, I mean, we've had lengthy discussions about what makes the film want. I mean, it's also, at the same time, a film spin-off of a long-running TV show, which we have loads of those, of all kinds of shows down the years, you know, from... Okay, I'm going to interject here and ask a question. the question is going to be so I mean aside from the fact that I'm it's actually a travesty that I didn't watch this because I'm a massive Peaky Blinders fan can you watch this film if you haven't watched Peaky Blinders the series and still enjoy it because that's what I would say it's a standalone film you can I don't understand why you would but you absolutely can there are people who have not watched an episode in fact I bumped into Jonathan Ross at the screening I went to and he was saying he has never watched the show and he enjoyed yeah do you know what interestingly everyone i've spoken to who has watched this cold and has not watched the show has enjoyed it a lot more than people who watch the show oh that is interesting yeah i think yeah that's interesting yeah i mean i think as a film it's perfectly decent if unsurprising and not the most original but it has vibes it's got a real feel to it as the show in fact does it's got a great soundtrack the needle drops are excellent but it feels substandard to me as a continuation of the Peaky Blinders story.

25:47And I should say this as someone who, I love Peaky Blinders. I do think season six was the weakest and I didn't love the way the show went out, particularly. So I was very open to this as a film to kind of have another go at sort of ending the story of Tommy Shelby and the Peaky Blinders. But I must admit this film, while it was fine, it was good. Like we gave three stars. I would agree with three star review. But it just, it wasn't like, Peaky Blinders when it's great, it is brilliant, right? Like it's really, really good. and this is okay. That's my greatest fear. That's my greatest fear that it's not going to be as good as the series.

26:25Sorry, Boyd, go on. No, but it's still worth seeing though because it is very enjoyable. I think the reason why Peaky Blinders fans and people who watch the show like it less than those who haven't is because really the great skill of it, Peaky Blinders is at its best when Stephen Knight, the creator-writer, weaves quite long plot lines through the series. So if most of the series was six episodes, then he would deploy, you know, an idea early on in the series, which wouldn't really come to fruition until sometimes even the final episode or until much later. So he's very adept at kind of plotting and across a whole series.

27:05And, you know, all of his TV dramas do that, I think, to some extent. Whereas I've never been quite convinced by his films that he's written scripts for. I think there is a difference, yeah. So I agree that this is a three-star film, basically, but still very entertaining and fun. And it's got lots of kind of, you know, they've raised the level of spectacle a little bit. There are a lot of explosions in this film. There are a lot of explosions. You know, you're like, okay, we've got the budget for explosion shots, so we're really going to use them. And there are some great moments when he comes back into the community and he goes into the pub.

27:42And that's the best sequence of the film, I think. that's a great sequence yes um and and and there's a a fight there's literally a pigs in shit fight that is uh quite entertaining as well but yeah there is i think i think it's just because it's a story that is summed up and dealt with in two hours flat and it just feels less juicy and less you know i don't know less thrilling in a way than than your normal peak of lines of tv show because those series have so much time to fill, but they have so much time to tell their stories as well. How is Barry? How is Barry as the son? Shifty Barry. I mean, he's fine.

28:22It's a character he's played many, many times before. I don't think it's his best performance, if I'm honest with you. But I think one of the problems that I have with this, because his character Duke was introduced in season six, you may or may not remember. You remember Tommy's son. By-blow son, yes. um and uh the problem with this is that the setup of this it feels like on the one hand yes it's quite peaky blinders in that tommy spends a lot of the film at the beginning moping around in his mansion talking to ghosts you know except he's done a lot of that in the series like i feel like we've been through this a number of times and i feel like we didn't need to spend half the run time with him kind of like being tortured um i also felt that the broad setup of this which you see at the very very beginning is that adolf hitler has a plan to win the war by flooding the british economy with fake five pound notes and it's up to tim roth's cockney nazi don't ask to undertake that and that's essentially the setup of this film so it's got a little bit of the eagle has landed about it like it's like a big sort of like nazi caper type thing but then you drop it right into small heath and the peaky blinders backyard and they're in like starts the film because peaky blinders as a concept the whole idea of this was it was set between two wars it was between world War I and World War II.

29:32The character of Tommy was sort of torn apart by PTSD, seeing the ghosts from Flanders and all that. Whereas this is very much, this is bang in the middle of the Blitz. Like, this is World War II. So it has shifted into a new era. Tommy's much older. Some of the characters aren't with us anymore. Some because they didn't make it out of season six of the show. And some, you know, Helen McCrory obviously didn't make it into season six of the show. She died before that was shot. And then in this, his brother Arthur is not really in this. Is he in it at all? Yes and no. Don't spoil it. Don't spoil it.

30:08All we're going to say is Paul Anderson is not in this film. Oh, God. For a variety of reasons. Yes, we know why he's not in it. Right, so he had some difficulties. And so Paul Anderson is not in this film. And while we do see images of Arthur, he's, for all intents and purposes, he's not in this film. No. Which is a shame because it feels like then, like at this point, like we are, like the Shelby family has been whittled down quite significantly as we begin this as we begin this film and there are great moments on this but obviously how i'm not gonna get into the end this isn't a spoiler chat although we are going to do an empire spoiler special on this i believe you're going to be on it boydy i don't know if chris is bothered to tell you but apparently you are no um we'll see about that right you know i i was disappointed by the way this film ended and i felt like you know if you got a second chance to end this story i maybe wouldn't have done it in this way um i mean how did you guys feel about without going into spoilers for those of you those people who haven't seen it how did you feel about how season six ended the story on the small screen i would have been very happy i was very happy with it i was absolutely happy i'd had my i'd had my fill of peaky blinders by the time i love peaky blinders i i wasn't really sure why they were doing a film um but then again i love luther and i love the luther the first luther film so i don't know and i didn't think i needed a luther film but i liked it well they're shooting another one at the moment i know i know it's it's it's to me sometimes it's really strange when they do this kind of thing and i i'm i'm take i'm going to take it from both of you that i don't necessarily need to watch this film maybe it will color my opinion of the series no i think i think you're fine to watch it i genuinely do and i and i kind of feel like now that it's on netflix everyone who's watching i should watch it there's no reason not okay like it's fun it's you know it's more it's more peaky blinders you know there are some great moments in it but i think if you are expecting this to be peaky blinders firing on all cylinders you will be disappointed this is you know imagine this is a quite middling episode of the tv show like a double episode of the tv show and that i would say is a fair assessment of it okay with more explosions yeah with more explosions a bigger budget it does feel a little bit more cinematic like killian murphy is great like he absolutely inhabits that character he's always been fantastic as that character rebecca ferguson comes in here as a kind of a gypsy queen and she's i mean arguably a little bit unnecessary to the story but it's always nice to see rebecca ferguson in things so yeah i didn't i was i didn't like her character because there's also intimations of like you know she really is psychic or really is in touch with you know although that's in keeping like peaky minis has always danced with the supernatural so i actually that stuff and a lot of people bumped on the kind of ghostly otherworldly stuff but that has been through the fabric of peaky since the beginning so So I didn't actually have a problem with that.

32:49I know, but I think the way that's used previously has always been more about his PTSD and all of that. And I don't know, I think I didn't like a character particularly. Well, to bear in mind, there was the intervention of a ghost at the end of season six as well. So it does happen. But you're right, there's always been that ambiguity, like how much of this is him seeing spirits and how much is he just absolutely losing his marbles? That's certainly something that they've toyed with. i thought tim roth was tim roth was i thought was really fun in it and is as the as the kind of amoral nazi supporter first line of the film is half fucking hitler in a cockney accent oh god yes um you've given that joke away that's good um if that was me it's literally the first line of the film i know but it's still it's like one of the best lines in the film so you know i'm just saying um uh yeah i thought he was really good i think barry keoghan the problem i have i had the barry keoghan's characters that he kind of he very quickly changes his mind like without there's a flip-flopper and the flip-flop happens so quickly it's not earned and again i think that reflects on the fact this is a two-hour film and not if this is if that was in the series if the series was following barry keoghan's character and his interrelationship with you know a new enemy and and how he's going to negotiate negotiate that with tommy shelby that would have been played out for much longer over multiple episodes.

34:12It dealt with in about five minutes in this film and it really doesn't earn it. And I think the ending that you talked about that you didn't like, I know what you mean. I think that again it doesn't feel earned. I just don't think, I think it's, even though we've seen the PTSD all the way through it's, and it's still doing it now. It's like, well, you're still doing it now. It's no worse, the PTSD seems no worse in this than it has been in all the previous stories. So, yeah, I didn't think that works i'm not going to watch it i've just i'm not going to watch it because no because it's going to you should it's going to be like scrubs when we when we did the scrubs reboot and now like it's really i don't think it's that no i don't think it's that like like it's funny like this has elements of legacy sequel to it in that it's set a long time after the main series and i did when i watched it i was like is this scrubs season nine like you know like not even the reboot but like the bit where you this is the unnecessary sort of like bookend that you put on the end of it but actually i don't think it is i think really what i would like this to have been is not a two-hour movie.

35:10I would have liked this to have been a six-episode series. If you're going to do Peaky Blinders series seven, do series seven. You know what I mean? Actually, if this story had had more room to breathe, I think I'd have enjoyed it a lot more. Because then you'd have had much more of those grace notes. Yeah, it would have been, I think, better. Are you telling me that this is not special enough to have been a two-hour film? Is that what you're saying? There's nothing special enough in it? I disagree. No, I completely reject that characterisation because I think a six-hour TV series is inherently superior to having it just as a one-and-done film, because this is a mythology that's been built on long-form storytelling, and it is text-it and it is nuanced, and exactly as Boyd says, it takes its time, and it's all about the people and the place and the texture and this kind of rock-and-roll, larger-than-life image of these kind of Birmingham gangsters straight from Stephen Knight's youth, and wallowing in that is part of the delight of this series, and this film is in a hurry to get where it's going.

36:08And I don't think you have enough time, as Ferris Bueller would famously say, to stop and look around every once in a while. And I, you know, I miss that about this. It's almost because, it's always been one of the most cinematic shows on TV. Like right from the start, that was the whole, you know, him arriving on the horse and the Nick Cave songs, you know, and they do all that again. And so it's almost like it isn't even, most spin-offs, film spin-offs from TV shows, part of the whole appeal is, oh, we're going to see it on a broader canvas now. and actually it feels like almost like a smaller canvas in a weird way because we're used to six episodes spectacular visualist spectacular stuff going on in Peaky Blinders that's that was one of its great innovations it really went for it when it came when it came to you know cinematic cinematic imagery and this just feels like well yeah they're carrying on with that but it's not it's not particularly any more any more spectacular than the tv show do you know what's really interesting though is it it feels like a legacy sequel and i don't just mean in that tommy's a lot older and it takes place a lot later it's like just because it replicates as you said the certain beats that we're familiar with from the show it feels like it tips its hat its flat cap if you will uh to nostalgia an awful lot but the sixth season was only four years ago like it hasn't been that long yet it has almost like it has the cadence and the kind of the posture of something that's coming like 10 15 years after the show ended so it feels like it's oh remember this oh remember this a bit of nostalgia it's like yeah of course we remember this it was just the other minute so i that that i thought was an odd choice yeah no i agree with that yeah wasn't there am i imagining it or didn't they when they announced this film didn't wasn't it part of a whole wasn't it wasn't it like a multi-comer yes there is more coming isn't it yeah so i wonder what that's gonna be but but i think my understanding is the peaky that's coming is set later on i don't think it's barry barry jogin's peaky yeah no the the the second one and i think there's been a two series order for this so this is in development and it's set in 1953 so this is a post-war series so i guess you know it's not a million miles away from this one but it's a fair bit later on so i don't know who if any characters will cross over but uh yeah we'll have to wait and see so this will be so we've had between two wars during the second world war now and then this was all going to be post second world war peaky blinders the immortal man then which is available to watch for all people including steph on the netflix as of the 20th which is you know friday tomorrow tomorrow friday it's friday isn't it yes friday friday yes on friday friday on the netflix so your friday night is sorted watch peaky blinders the immortal man okay it's time for the

38:56postbag right postbags postbags postbags uh we have a message straight out of the sack here from cameron and cameron says in response to his pit message last week a couple of points read my previous email i actually wasn't talking about the disimpaction episode of the pit which i didn't even see until after sending my previous email it is something else entirely and it's even more graphic than the stool sample episode i genuinely don't know what this refers to but he goes on to say also well of course i've seen the west wing and er but what other john wells shows would you recommend china beach third watch shameless southland animal kingdom and i noticed that noah wiley show falling skies from 15 years ago seems to have climbed the streaming charts recently thanks to the pit and i've never watched it is it worth a look uh wow a lot of questions there falling skies is good but not great as i recall i quite enjoyed it but i didn't watch it to the end so that probably tells you everything you need to know about that um but yeah it's it's halfway decent no while he's always very watchable as for other john wells shows i don't know boydy what are your favorites i'm a big fan of southland i thought that was fantastic uh regina kings and that loads of good people that michael cudlitz really good did you mention animal kingdom because everybody's talking about that yeah because that's the one that's just came on Netflix Liam has watched all of that in my house in like a ridiculous speed and he's absolutely obsessed with it said it's brilliant I haven't watched it but I know Boyd's watched it and said it was really good didn't you Boyd it's the Ellen Barkin one Animal Kingdom yeah yeah yeah was that film originally was it a spin off from a film maybe I'm not sure I know that all I think there's however many seasons are all available on Netflix now yeah Ellen Barkin and her mad prodigy her progeny progeny progeny progeny yes of problematic sons.

40:42Yeah. Also, the American version of Shameless that he, I think he was a showrunner to start with. Certainly, he produced it. It was actually really good. And amazingly, let me just look this up, it went on for, William H. Macy's in this and Emmy Rossum. Yeah. It went for like, what, like 130 odd episodes? Yeah. Like it ran for 10 years. 11 seasons. 11 seasons of Shameless. Can I, That is incredible. Can I say, yeah, but can I say something? This is going to sound really awful. Do you know what? I like actively have never watched one of those episodes because I just, I just, I really hated the fact they'd made an American version of it because Shameless is so good.

41:23Do you know what I mean? But you can probably tell me it was, you're probably going to tell me it was really good, the American version, but I just like, no, you cannot, you cannot get better than British Shameless. It was a bit like what happened with The Office though, because to start with, they had a few episodes that were exactly the same almost as the British episodes to the point where, you know, they're credited to, I think Danny Brocklehurst wrote quite a few of them, who writes the stuff at the moment for Netflix, the Harlan Coburn, who works on the Harlan Coburn show. Anyway, of course, Harlan Coburn.

41:55Anyway, I'm tired. And he, but then as it wore on the American version of Shameless, it became its own thing. And it's almost, you know, it's just literally its own thing after about a couple of seasons. But yeah, there's a lot. That will keep you going. If you haven't watched The American Sameness and you wanted something new to watch, 134 hours to get through. Yeah, there's a lot of that. I was a big fan of Third Watch back in the day, much as I don't generally like those sort of episodic procedurals. Third Watch, because it had police, fire and ambulance. It had a little bit of texture to it.

42:26So I watched every single episode of Third Watch. James, being your friend sometimes is so confusing. It is honestly... There's no consistency at all. It was a while ago, to be fair. It's not recent. i watched it when it came out so the tv landscape has changed since then um but yeah third watch worth a shot okay what else have we got in here uh okay speaking of which i'm gonna i wasn't gonna read this out but i'm now gonna read this out because i guess it's it is germane steph to what you were just saying that being friends with me is exhausting and this one comes from mark and mark says some of this will sound like a dig but it's all said with love one the big question what is it about james and boyd that makes them incapable of holding on to a female co-host unfortunately the lawyers don't allow boydy to answer that question so we'll have to move on uh number two uh this is a list of things that james has described as not really his thing one comedy two anything too silly three animation four documentaries bar the occasional inexplicable flirtation with a rockumentary five shows that have tonal shifts six reality shows and seven anything too depressing and miserable did i miss anything does that leave any telling left okay that's a great so who's that from yeah this is from mark okay mark right what what i would say about the female co-host situation okay so just remember i'm in a job show with k and i'll just i'll just say what she said to me which was steph i can't take it anymore

44:13can you help me and i said yes i will help you no i don't think that you can't hold on to be my co-hosts because I think it's just you know Kay has got lots of other things going on so she just couldn't dedicate the time which is why we have the job share uh you know and as Terry and Beth they all have lots of other basically really what the question really is is why are you two still here why are we still here stuff to do why have we not left and done other things you know all the women are you know out there doing other things and you guys are just still here so it's not really that you can't hold on to us.