In short
Pilot Plus discusses The Undeclared War (Channel 4, Series 2) picking up from a 2022 cliffhanger about a cyber attack and Russian bombers heading for London, plus a belated Paradise (Dan Fogelman) Season 2 spoiler chat.
Guest backgrounds
The episode is hosted by Pilot Plus regulars: Boyd, Steph, James, and Peter (referred to as “Boyd” and “Steph” in the discussion). They also mention cast/creators of the shows, including Simon Pegg (as a GCHQ cyber-security chief), Mark Rylance, Adrian Lester, Alex Jennings, Sean Brooke, Ed Stoppard, and director Paul McGuigan.
Key claims
Reviews and tone are debated: one host found Series 2 slick and tense; others call it disappointing, “tired” espionage tropes (especially a mole), and poorly gripping dialogue. Paradise Season 2 is criticized for a telegraphed AI twist and confusing supernatural/character backstory choices.
Notable examples
“one-shot” opening/long take in GCHQ; “there’s a mole” reveal; Ed Stoppard’s villainous politician role; Paradise’s AI reveal and the “born a killer” predestination storyline.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOOverview of The Undeclared War
0:45 to 2:18
Discussion of the show's premise, characters, and plot points from season one.
“out there and if you remember season one back from 2022 the vague plot of it was that hannah Kalik Brown was Sarah Parvin, and she was essentially the workie.”
Comparing Reception and Reviews
2:18 to 3:57
Hosts discuss the show's reception, reviews, and their personal opinions.
“I mean, at the moment, you know, the Odyssey is what practically 100 % on Metacritic, and it's not that good.”
Cinematic Techniques and Direction
3:57 to 5:09
Insights into the direction and cinematic style of the series, including notable scenes.
“And I think there's a pretty good one tracking shot that opens.”
Character Dynamics and New Additions
5:09 to 7:44
Exploration of character relationships, new cast members, and their roles in the show.
“So he's very good at kind of coming up with cinematic, exciting ways of shooting this stuff, which considering a lot of it is set in the GCHQ offices and control rooms.”
Quality and Themes of Season Two
7:44 to 8:51
Critique of the second season's quality, themes, and overall execution compared to the first season.
“I think, I have to say, I thought this was shocking.”
Debate on Show's Execution and Logic
8:51 to 14:01
In-depth discussion and debate on the narrative logic and execution of the espionage themes presented.
“this is this is billed as a thriller this is a thriller with no thrill okay it is is devoid of it's like it's like a sixth form project of you should make an espionage control room tv show That's how it feels.”
Critique of The Undeclared War
14:01 to 15:38
The hosts discuss their mixed feelings about the show 'The Undeclared War' and its decline in quality.
“And it's also the other thing, it's got a bit butterfly, isn't it really, I think, in the sense that it's become a kind of middling, okay, you know, espionage thriller.”
Upcoming Segment Overview
15:39 to 16:14
The hosts outline the upcoming discussion segments including the post bag and a spoiler discussion.
“I think it's all available on Channel4.com as well, yeah.”
Listener Feedback and Apologies
16:36 to 18:36
The hosts read a listener's critique on their previous comments about Lisa Nandy and offer apologies.
“And if you felt that we were being dismissive, we apologise.”
Discussion on Media Mergers
18:37 to 22:24
The hosts discuss the implications of the Paramount-Warner merger and its impact on the media landscape.
“So yes, to a certain extent, they can stop it in that they have still got options to do that.”
Show all 25 chapters
Humor and Miscommunication
22:25 to 24:01
The hosts reflect on their earlier humor regarding Lisa Nandy and how it may have been misunderstood.
“And if the merger doesn't get closed by that date, Paramount have got to pay a ticketing fee of, I think it's 25 cents per share per quarter to Warner Brothers shareholders, which works out about$7 million a day.”
Listener Messages and Positive Feedback
24:02 to 28:00
The hosts read multiple listener messages including positive feedback and a humorous take on reviews.
“In contrast to David's letter, we have a message here from Dion from West Wales.”
Exploring Female Action Shows
28:00 to 29:05
The hosts discuss a new action series featuring female leads and the differing reviews from male and female critics.
“An action show starring two women of a certain age, ride or die.”
Debating TV Locations
29:05 to 30:30
The conversation shifts to iconic TV filming locations and the impact of tourism on those sites.
“But, you know, equally, it might have something to do with the show itself, is what I'm saying.”
Personal Travel Experiences
30:30 to 31:30
The hosts share their personal travel experiences, including a not-so-great trip to Dubrovnik.
“We'll talk about that in the other podcast.”
Vacation Preferences
31:30 to 33:24
The discussion turns to vacation habits, contrasting active versus relaxing holiday styles.
“Yeah, look, hey, it might be the most banging place available.”
Comedy in The Bear
33:24 to 36:32
The hosts debate the comedic elements of the show 'The Bear' and its categorization.
“to the nation of Croatia and the residents of Dubrovnik for the next time I come, feel free to strip me naked and march me through the streets, ringing a bell, just saying shame, shame, shame.”
Listener Feedback on Bluey
36:32 to 37:59
A listener shares their thoughts about the show 'Bluey,' and the hosts discuss its merits.
“Before we, before we chat paradise, Nice.”
Animation Education Discussion
37:59 to 41:06
The hosts introduce the idea of exploring animation and gathering suggestions from listeners.
“Okay, Kate, I'm so excited that you have sent in this message.”
Breaking News: Paramount-Warner Merger
41:06 to 42:00
The hosts discuss breaking news regarding the Paramount and Warner Brothers merger.
“I don't know, you keep grouping me in with you two.”
Paramount Warner Brothers Merger Update
42:00 to 42:50
Discussion on the paused merger between Paramount and Warner Brothers due to state concerns.
“As we speak That the Paramount Warner Brothers merger Has been paused Wow Due to concerns from states About that the merger would violate Is that breaking?”
Animation Suggestions Call-Out
42:50 to 43:22
Hosts encourage listeners to send in suggestions for animated musicals for an upcoming episode.
“with these animation suggestions because I think that's going to be a good episode.”
Paradise Season 2 Discussion
43:22 to 48:26
In-depth discussion of Paradise Season 2, including plot issues and character development.
“So you've got Simon in that and Alex in this.”
Critique of Season 2's Writing
48:26 to 52:54
Hosts critique the storytelling and writing choices in Season 2 of Paradise, highlighting predictability and character arcs.
“But I just don't think I bought some of the developments.”
Wrap-Up of Paradise Discussion
52:54 to 53:44
Hosts summarize their thoughts on Paradise and reflect on the show's trajectory.
“so much but the first season in and of itself still had a trashiness to it didn't it like it was there was a hint of guilty pleasure to it but it was a lot of fun.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:07Boyd Hilton:Welcome to Pilot Plus, your extended guide to every show that matters. And today we have convened to discuss the undeclared war. What do you say? What is the undeclared war? That's a good question because it has been a while. This is kind of near future espionage techno thriller. learn now this aired in 2022 and it was set in the future aka 2024 so a it's been off our screens for quite a while and b their near future is very much now our past and things things have moved on i think it's fairly safe to say uh this saw simon pegg as a man in gchq in charge of cyber security out there and if you remember season one back from 2022 the vague plot of it was that hannah Kalik Brown was Sarah Parvin, and she was essentially the workie.
0:56Boyd Hilton:And she came in to do work experience at GCHQ, found a virus, and uncovered this whole Russian plot to destabilise the UK, if you can imagine that. And it involved malware and fake-outs. And Mark Rylance was in here as a long-time kind of old-school GCHQ operative who Sarah kind of bonds with. Adrian Lester is the Prime Minister. It all builds up to this big finale where there are essentially Russian bombers on their way to London. And there's been this huge cyber attack and no one knows what is going on. Meanwhile, there's this guy called Vadim, who's a former friend of Sara's, who's actually in Russian intelligence.
1:31Boyd Hilton:He's been working at like a spam farm, like a misinformation place. And now he's working in cyber operations. It's quite complicated is what I'm telling you. But this ended on a cliffhanger in 2022. This picks up exactly where that previous season left off we find out what happens with the cliffhanger peter kaminsky has since a kind of exited the show he's still on board as an executive producer i believe but he is no longer writing the show so he's kind of moved on so a lot has happened boydy you remember the undeclared war we reviewed it on this podcast didn't we it got relatively middling reviews but i seem to recall quite enjoying that first season am i wrong am i misremembering this no it was good i think it got pretty good reviews I think it's just that...
2:15Boyd Hilton:59, I think it is on Metacritic for season one. Well, you know, I don't like... I know you don't. I don't like Metacritic. I mean, at the moment, you know, the Odyssey is what practically 100 % on Metacritic, and it's not that good. Anyway. Boyd, you are literally the only person, though, I have spoken to you who said it's not that... No, I have spoken to you who said it's not that good. Everybody else seems to like it. Interestingly, Mark Kermode isn't fully... Talks about the flaws, you know, how it's half an hour too long, and it takes too long to get going. And Jonathan Ross, I listened to his reviews, he was quite scathing.
2:47He said it's a mess. So reviews aren't, yeah, they're starting to come in. Anyway, we're not here to talk about film. No, we're not here to talk about The Odyssey. Not here. Yeah, I think it did pretty well for Channel 4. I think it was one of the biggest dramas of the last few years. Because it was part thriller, part workplace drama, wasn't it? Yeah, it's a bit like The Capture, isn't it? I think. Okay, I'm going to just have to stop you. I'm going to absolutely have to stop you there because my main, and just say, please don't even put this in the same breath, in the same sentence as the capture.
3:18I hope this isn't, listeners, in our WhatsApp group, you'd refer, Steph has referred to a show so bad, so annoyed her that she had to, she didn't express, I hope it's not this one. Oh, it's not this one.
3:32Boyd Hilton:I'm fascinated about this. We're going to get into it on the main podcast. I'm fascinated to see what has provoked Steph's eye out. Right, well, that's a relief. I compare it to the capture only in the sense that it's very much like, you know how the capture is like so of the moment. And this is very of the moment, I think, even though, of course, actually it's set in 2024 a couple of years ago. But in terms of all the different types of threats and the types of conversations they're having about intelligence gathering, and then the setting itself, visually, of course, it's a massive control room, you know, almost entirely set in the gigantic GCHQ control them, which is reminiscent of the capture control and all the kind of digital computer-y stuff that you see on the big screens.
4:15That's all there. And I think there's a pretty good one tracking shot that opens. I only realised kind of like after about five, ten minutes that this seems to be, I think it's one shot, the opening of this series. Did you notice that, James, that it was one shot?
4:27Boyd Hilton:I did think that as a workplace, it felt more like an actual government workplace than the capture where they have these big high-resolution screens, whereas I like the fact here they're all just tinkering away on little Dell computers, which is... A boring workspace. A bit boring. But, yeah, that's kind of interesting that we see him after the resolution of the cliffhanger, which happens right at the beginning. Then we see Simon Pegg's character back in the office kind of dealing with various different people he has to talk to about the next challenges he faces in series two. And that, I think, is one long shot, I think, where it's quite cleverly done.
5:06The director is Paul McGuigan, by the way, who directed some of the best episodes of Sherlock. So he's very good at kind of coming up with cinematic, exciting ways of shooting this stuff, which considering a lot of it is set in the GCHQ offices and control rooms. It's quite a good thing to do. But the big difference this time around is that Sean Brooke has joined the cast as Simon Pegg's character, Danny's wife, who also happens to work at GCHQ. And so they have this kind of quite funny relationship whereby the pillow talk is bad. They have to ban each other from asking each other questions about GCHQ where they both work.
5:44And that's quite a funny little addition to the thing. He's got kids as well. And I think, I believe it was Paul McGuigan, the director who started all these episodes, by the way, who said that it would be good to show Danny on the bus. You know, like, what does he do? How does he get to work? What is his family life like? What is it like having a wife who's also kind of doing secret stuff like he is? So you've got that. And she's, of course, brilliant in everything, from Blue Lights, Blue Lights, et cetera. Then you've also got Ed Stoppard as Richard Marston, who we remind you of what an absolute bellend he is.
6:18He's the high-end politician who kind of comes up against Danny and the other characters. And you remember what a complete twat he is in the first scene. And then he carries on being a twat. And he's now Foreign Secretary, which means he's even more closely dealing with Simon Pegg's character and Simon Pegg's initial boss as well, who played by Alex Jennings, the great Alex Jennings, who's brilliant in everything. Anyway, I think the whole milieu is very interesting. As I said, when we do the capture, I do like this kind of stuff, you know, control room-based espionage action. and the other added storyline is that there's a mole Dan is told there's a mole in GCHQ in the upper echelon so there's that kind of element to it as well it's kind of there's nothing particularly original about it but I like being in the company of Simon Pegg doing this kind of stuff and it's very slickly done it's very entertaining and I think the fact that Peter you're right Peter Kozminski you know kind of was who is a maverick drama writer did the first series and he's not involved in the second series but I didn't particularly I didn't particularly get any sense that I missed him or his input or, you know, he's a quite political writer.
7:30James is looking, smiling quite rightly. I'm interested. I'm surprised, but carry on. Yeah, no, I thought it, I thought it maintained the, the quality of the first series pretty much. Steph's shaking her head. Yeah. Oh my God. You are very much an island of one here.
7:45Boyd Hilton:I think, I have to say, I thought this was shocking. Oh my God. Yeah, it really was. And I, to be fair, and like i say i don't they were kind of i guess slightly middling the reviews the first season but i really enjoyed it because i watched it through to the end and i found it quite tense and interesting and provocative and all of the things you know and i guess politically very relevant at the time but it feels like i don't know i can't but it's been so long ago because it's been fucking four years like i don't remember in detail the kind of the tonality of it but this i was just either i was insane to like it or the quality has fallen off a cliff because it feels like they dispense with the cliffhanger as quickly as possible and then fall back onto the most tired and tedious of all espionage tropes there's a mole and there's literally even a bit where simon pegg just stares into the distance and goes they're one of us and you're just like oh no and like no disrespect to colin tevin who i think has taken over from peter kosminski in writing this but it just feels like i don't know why this exists i feel like you should have just left it cliffhanger and all had just been done with it like this i i you know i was quite excited to watch this if i'm honest with you i struggled to get through the first episode of this yeah i mean oh god this right this is this is billed as a thriller this is a thriller with no thrill okay it is is devoid of it's like it's like a sixth form project of you should make an espionage control room tv show That's how it feels.
9:13The Catcher, right, which is why I take a huge offense to you even mentioning the same sentence. That is a masterclass. That is an example of how to build tension in an espionage thriller. And also how like, right, I'm going to give it to you. There's a level of authenticity to the GCHQ rooms, right? But I don't, but that's because they're probably a bit boring in real life, right? So I don't want that. I want the big screens. I want it to have big screen energy and literal big screens. I don't want people sitting at their Dell computers. You know, I just, it's just, oh my God, the mole thing.
9:48I just, I put my head in my hands and I was like, God, there's a mole. Of course there's a bloody mole, right? And the dialogue, but it's not even, they don't even build to that. It's so unsubtle. It's cheesy. The dialogue is stunted. the you know it's in no way gripping do you know what the worst thing you could do in a non-gripping non-thriller why don't you add a bit of domestication into it to make it even less exciting i mean god it's just rubbish boy it's awful but also like you talk about the dell factor
10:23Boyd Hilton:and you can you can kind of say do you know what if they're going for a layer of realism because like the agency does this where they show you that you know spy work is a lot of meetings and administration and the kind of the layer of realism can work to a show's advantage but it's so lopsided here because you have that but then you of course have ed stoppard as the home secretary in just such a horrendously mustache twirling villainous two-dimensional role like it's just excruciating but then you have a bit where it's like i think you know he thinks they've got a mole so it's like right right let's go to the office okay that makes sense do not discuss it in the open plan got you goes into the office the head of security comes in and they're like we think we've got a mole it's like close the fucking door like jesus christ everyone can hear you i don't know about you guys right i think there's a real danger and a part of me was like right if i just watch too much of this stuff that if they don't get the dialogue right and if they do those kinds of like there's a mole it starts to really feel like parody and i was like and because look i'm just gonna put my hands up i love simon peck but because i don't think that the script is good enough and because he has a comic background it feels even more like parody because it's because it's him right and so I was just like oh god this is so like it's such a slog to get through I could not care less the control room's not impressive the dialogue's not impressive I don't even like who great I don't care about who the mole is I'm really not but it's just is it there's some parts of it that are hard to follow and I don't even want to follow them you know it's just terrible it's authentic yes boring god yes sorry boyd wow this is steph's the steph's revenge of the hawk really right here that's what this is i'm gonna i'm holding my hands up about the hawk i'm holding my hands official 180 reverse ferret on the on the hawk boyd and i talked about this after the podcast because i think i think you're right in saying that my love for will ferrell is kind of you know taken over there so i will hold my hands up but this is, you know, Ryder dies a whole other thing.
12:27We'll get into that on the main podcast. But this is just, this is not good, Boyd. No. Look, I'm not saying it's a high level in the genre. I'm not saying that. I was perfectly entertained by it. I mean, I'm not desperate to carry on watching it. So I admit that, you know, it isn't the capture. No, the comparison with the capture is purely based on the tone and the subject matter, the themes, yeah, the use of tech. And I'm not saying it's anywhere near as addictive as it is. Absolutely not. No, let me make that clear. And it's also nowhere near as good as the agency, in fact, I would say, which I think the agency, I'm watching kind of low-level, kind of watching it when I can.
13:10So I think there's 10 episodes of that. It's really, really good, the agency. It's just, you know, it's a cut above. So, no, it's not on the level of those shows. And it feels a bit like a contractual obligation. So I do – and I remember – my memory is that when it went out on Channel 4, how many years – two years ago? Four. Four years ago, right, four years ago, as you mentioned in your introduction, in fact, that I'm pretty sure when they went, and we're going to do Series 2 as well. It was one of those. Right. I think almost like to boost the state to which Channel 4 was being supportive of Series 1, they went, oh, and we're going to do Series 2.
13:46Well, I think they've kind of ended up four years later going, oh, we've got to do Series 2 of that. I'm going to go walking because Richard's like I'm gone he's doing his own thing Mark Ryders is gone
13:55Boyd Hilton:Adrian Lester's gone half the cast is left the director's gone new director's coming so yeah I admit I'm not really going to argue with you because I kind of agree with you in many ways but I still was entertained enough by it not to hate it although not entertained enough by it to really need to carry on watching it don't just get the remnants of a show and try and put something back together it's not going to work No, you're right. And it's also the other thing, it's got a bit butterfly, isn't it really, I think, in the sense that it's become a kind of middling, okay, you know, espionage thriller.
14:30Oh, it's not okay, Boyd. It's not even close to okay. I think it's okay, but it's definitely not special now.
14:38Boyd Hilton:But it's also, it's leaned very far into kind of silliness. And I don't even mean silliness in a deliberately comedic way. It's just daft because it's not really very well thought through. and the whole plot which pivots to a mole and actually China is now the villain and not Russia and it's like they're trying to escalate. I think you're right. Like there's definitely the whiff of contractual obligations to this. And you know even bits like, well, you know when he has to phone America and the lady's just always at her desk, you know, and she's like, I've been waiting for you. And it's just so cheesy.
15:07I can't bear it. It's awful.
15:09Boyd Hilton:I was really disappointed, as I say, because I remember really enjoying season one for whatever reason and I was actually quite psyched about watching this last night. So I was quite crushed by it. But you didn't even care about the cliffhanger. So if a series ends and you've forgotten what the cliffhanger was and then you didn't really care about it, I mean, that tells you all you need to know. To be fair, a lot's happened in four years. You know what? They should have left it in 2022. Sorry, guys. The Undeclared War then, which is on Channel 4. When, Boyd? It's started now. It's already... Now?
15:41Boyd Hilton:I think it's all available on Channel4.com as well, yeah. Watch it on your Dell laptop. Right. it is time for well I should say two things we will have our belated I'm not even going to call it a paradise spoiler special Boyd and I will exchange a few thoughts on what we remember as paradise from the months that I saw it ago but before that we will have the post bag but before that I should say that as this goes out it is the Does Simple Maths 23rd I want to say of July when this goes out Thursday the 23rd this is your last chance to lock in if you are in a situation where you can do that as in your on a monthly rolling subscription to pilot plus or you know your subscription is about to expire so you can lock in at the lower price because remember the prices do go up on the 27th which is next week so you know just so you're aware that's when it happens please don't go okay it's time for the post bag
16:45Boyd Hilton:we are going to begin with a dressing down a dressing down from david and david says this is in response to so you will recall and david is not the only one who brought this up but steph you and i were i think it's safe to say a little dismissive of the ministerial clout of one lisa Nandi when we discussed in the news story her ability to you know because she said she was looking into the Paramount Warner's merger and perhaps slightly for the sake of comedy we went on the whole riff about oh no Lisa's on the case to be fair it was in no small part about humor but a lot of people have been quite cross about this and I think David's email uh maybe encapsulates the general feeling so joking we totally respect Lisa James and Steph you realize these companies need British government's permission to do their merger right and that of the governments of America the EU and other territories they trade in we have anti-monopoly laws for a reason we don't just let companies do what they want this isn't a David and Goliath story it's a consumer rights story and a story about the health of the UK media landscape if you care about news TV film or the entertainment industry in general you should be massively invested in this I'm amazed and disappointed that you were both so dismissive of it and thank you Boyd for attempting to say why it mattered while the other two just laughed at you david okay dad was right okay i just can i just say i think she's still she's retained her role hasn't she i think in the government yeah okay can i just say right like okay i'm not saying that james and i are kind of like totally abreast with everything that's going on in the government but we were just joking for the sake of entertainment.
18:25We weren't trying to be dismissive. And if you felt that we were being dismissive, we apologise. And I speak on behalf of James as well.
18:32Boyd Hilton:Yeah, I mean, look, I think there's two sides to this. I think from my perspective, I was maybe, I suppose it felt David and Goliath a little bit to me because my understanding of, and feel free to tell me that I'm incorrect if you are a constitutional lawyer or whatnot, that Lisa Nandi herself does not have the power to stop this, but she does have mechanisms at her disposal to do it she was talking about a public interest intervention notice which is a and the cma which is the competition and markets authority can stop these things now they can't stop the companies from merging they are us companies but what they can do is restrict what they can do operating within the uk so in theory in theory no matter what the uk government did my understanding is they could still do whatever the fuck they wanted but they would have to for example divest themselves of all UK assets, so they didn't operate in this territory, which honestly, they're obviously not going to do.
19:26Boyd Hilton:So yes, to a certain extent, they can stop it in that they have still got options to do that. But then there is the other factor of this, isn't there, which is the Trump factor, which is that given that Trump and Ellison are, shall we say, rather close, and Trump has been very in favour of this merger, to then actively block it in the UK, I suspect, would come at a political cost and then you've got to think are they prepared to pay that cost maybe maybe not i don't know um i also want to say like we are not in favor of this merger on any level it's an absolute travesty but it just feels a little bit inevitable and there's also the part of me that's just like netflix were obviously the other interested party in in acquiring warner brothers would that have been better than paramount i mean paramount brings with it the ellisons and there's a whole political dimension there but netflix obviously are not in any way invested in the theatrical experience what does that mean for Warner releases?
20:16Boyd Hilton:Yeah, but they would have been though. They said they made it quite clear, Netflix, they would have absolutely backed the cinema experience. They paid lip service to it. But do you really believe they wouldn't have closed the release windows? Yeah, because it would have been against their own interests, I think, at that point. What was interesting, if you remember, I think when Netflix was, it looked like Netflix was going to buy the company and do the merger. and everyone was saying, oh yeah, but what about theatrical window, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they actually went out of their way. Ted Sarandos went out of his way and was saying, no, no, no, no.
20:50This is not going to affect, at least, the current situation. They're going to protect. And that's totally in their interest to protect the window, as it is right now. It's not affecting them. It's not stopping them from doing what they do at the moment. And he was saying, no, no, no, no. That's not why we want to merge, not to kind of get rid of the theatrical experience at all. So they went out of their way to make that clear, is all I'd say. And I think Lisa Landy, you were joking. They were joking. Yeah, we were joking. I'm sorry, that joke has gone very wrong. We were being a bit silly. Obviously, we respect any government official who is doing something to, you know, help anybody get a better experience in whatever they're doing.
21:32I'm trying to keep this hugely general. But it is quite complicated as to what Lisa Nandy can do. But she did tell them she was minded to intervene. That was the phrase. And it's like how and when and how she would do that is another matter. It is quite complicated. I also say, I did personally give props to Lisa Nandy in our main pod because she is championing the license fee. That is true. I still think we should get her on. I would love to get her on. And then I will literally say to her in person, Lisa... Well, you know what? I just realised she probably can't talk about, can she? She probably wouldn't come on.
22:10And that is the reason why she won't come on the podcast. Yes, absolutely. But it'd be nice to know what she likes to watch.
22:16Boyd Hilton:And it has been pointed out that even delaying the merger has the potential to extract concessions out of Paramount. Simply because, as one of our listeners has already pointed out, there is a trigger date on the 30th of September. And if the merger doesn't get closed by that date, Paramount have got to pay a ticketing fee of, I think it's 25 cents per share per quarter to Warner Brothers shareholders, which works out about$7 million a day. Now, if you're Larry Ellison, that isn't an awful lot of money, but it's still not a small amount of money. And if they have to pull out of the whole deal, then they have to pay$7 billion.
22:52Boyd Hilton:Again, if you are Larry Ellison, that is not a huge amount of money. but still but any kind of any kind of monopoly like this is bad for consumer choice and it's bad for everyone so I want to pick a mix I don't like I don't like these big mergers at all I don't think no and the Edisons are I mean I don't want to get political well that's the other that's the other dimension you shouldn't have people having a monopoly over this kind of stuff I don't want to get political but they are evil right okay well I wonder where Boyney stands and all this yeah okay anyway we were being silly yes i'm sorry it wasn't we were being silly probably about something that's serious and you all felt david we apologize we apologize for that you know with we were just being is it slightly because you think lisa nandy's got quite funny names it's almost like nando's yes yes yes boy that was a hundred percent it we were like lisa nando's is on the couch yes i think we referred to her one point it's probably me calling a lease which is also I mean, yeah.
23:50Boyd Hilton:I mean, really, I feel like unless you've gone out and, you know, had margaritas with her, you really can't be calling her lease. I shouldn't have said that. You know, we were wrong. We weren't Widow's Bay wrong, but we were definitely wrong. It was definitely up there. Okay. So apologies both to David and indeed to our lease. Right. Let's move on. What else have we got here? Okay. In contrast to David's letter, we have a message here from Dion from West Wales. And Dion does not have a complaint. It is titled Positive Feedback. I just want to pass on my gratitude to all of you and what you do twice a week I really enjoy your different perspectives on tv shows and how honest you are about the things you like or dislike it really makes listening to pilot worth it also keep telling us what you've watched that's embargoed it helps to know what's coming up also thanks to James for being so helpful via instagram dm oh you're very welcome uh keep up the great work you are all amazing Dion from West Wales oh you do give people like I love it when people dm me I get really excited I get so excited I get a little message request and I'm like I get some lovely people on my Insta DM I love my pilot Insta friends they're so kind you've opened the floodgates now oh I love it I love it when people message me see those floodgates they are open oh please message away I absolutely love it and I always reply I love it if everyone listening to this podcast could please follow us on Instagram we can use the followers yeah this is like on the wall for now when if anyone listens to it Romesh, and Nathan, and Tom Davis, when Tom Davis literally offers to have coffee with the listeners, and Romesh is horrified.
25:19He's like, no, no, no, no, no. We're not getting involved in that. Oh, no. I love it. It's when people send DMs and they're like, we'll send quite nice long ones. And I always reply, it's really nice. There's a really nice little pilot Insta community and they will give me a real pick-me-up. They're so kind. And Boyd will 100 %
25:36Boyd Hilton:have coffee with you if you send him a DM. No, no, no. Do you know if any of them could edit a podcast and put it out on the night? Yeah, I'm going to ask them. When James is away. Yeah, there's a lot going on while I'm away. We won't get into the admin here, but let's just say it's been interesting. It's a night. Oh, God. What do you need to know? It's going to finally break void. This next two weeks is going to break void. It seems quite likely. Breaking void. Breaking void. That's what we'll call them, breaking void. Something here from Matthew Parry says, hello. Good morning. Some listeners may wish you to announce at the top of this email that it was sent using the Outlook platform.
26:10Boyd Hilton:I don't understand that but apparently it was sent via the Outlook platform Oh maybe that's because that person messaged to say at the top of everything you have to say which platform it's on Do you remember? I didn't get that joke and now I do That's what I'm here for to explain jokes to you Very good, thank you Matthew As a new subscriber to Pilot Plus I just wanted to express my surprise and the criticism you seem to get over minor things such as mentioning preview screeners you have seen that week. I enjoy the friendly needling over who has seen what earlier than the other person. And for me, it's the same as if you'd mentioned in the news that a new series is due out in the not-too-distant future.
Read the full transcript
26:49Boyd Hilton:Love the pod. Just keep on keeping on. And that message came from Outlook. An Outlook platform. Yes, brought to you by Outlook. I like to think that people take us to task over minor niggles out of love. That's where I think it comes from. I think it comes from a place of love. No, definitely here. Okay.
27:08Boyd Hilton:Okay, what have we got? So, Stephen says, just wanted to say that I'm all for Annette Bening's career renaissance. Or renaissance. Would you go renaissance or renaissance? What are you, Boyd? Are you a renaissance man or a renaissance man? No, renaissance. Renaissance. And didn't we call it, didn't we name it something? Well, yes. The Annette-a-sance. Stephen says, it was painful to hear the Annette-a-sance when Ben-a-sance was right there. Up your pun game, guys. Oh, of course. Yeah, it was painful. I think Boyd and I were trying to figure something out. Benesons. Of course it's Benesons. Thank God for you.
27:42Right. Okay. Thank you.
27:44Boyd Hilton:Message here aimed at Steph from Cathy. Right. Stop. Is it nice? We'll find out. Hi, gang. I know this was embargoed for last week's pod, and I thought you might cover it on Plus. Hopefully, it will get a mention on the main pod as I really enjoyed it. To be fair, this one came in before the previous podcast. An action show starring two women of a certain age, ride or die. Hi, Hannah Waddingham seems to be going for a female James Bond in the first step, but I really like the way the story developed about the friendship between her and Octavia Spencer's character. So much so that I binged a whole series yesterday in between that World Cup.
28:19Boyd Hilton:Anyway, I was quite surprised how willing they were to kill off fairly significant characters regularly, but zipping from cocktail parties to action set pieces, I thought this was a lot of fun. So less aimed at Steph, and I'm saying more aimed at you, Boydie. Kathy thank you and Boyd Boyd literally the other day just said to me I just want to let you know that Mark Como'd and he told me about Mark Como's review and I was like yeah because he's a man and I have had a quick look and I'm going to mention this on the main pod about the division between female reviewers and male reviewers of this show and it's very interesting very interesting Boyd just going to say that yeah I you know I don't deny that that could be an element in my lack of love for the show.
29:04Or not being a woman. Yeah, not being a woman, yeah. But, you know, equally, it might have something to do with the show itself, is what I'm saying. Enforcer of the patriarchy. Yeah.
29:17Boyd Hilton:Alan says, TV locations. Always enjoy the pod, and while I don't always agree with your reviews, you have pointed me in the direction of shows I could have missed. Regarding the ongoing discussion of visiting locations, surely James as a huge Game of Thrones fan Dubrovnik is the place to go it is basically King's Landing and you can see many locations of some of the most iconic scenes from the series I did one of the many tours which take you around where all those were shot it is well worth a visit also I enjoyed the dark and interestingly I don't think they ever mentioned the town it's set in it's clearly the Highlands but I don't think they actually filmed it in Inverness happy to be corrected on that however love alan oh yeah because we upset the scottish people didn't we you did i did was it me oh god i remember scrabbling around trying desperately trying to find where it's officially set and it just doesn't say anywhere that's absolutely true yeah i don't know where i got the inverness thing from but i got it from somewhere no i think because you looked on the thing and it said set in inverness oh okay yeah but it's just they don't mention it yeah okay and in fact i think it some of it was filmed in inverness so if you look look at the location, etc.
30:24But yeah, not officially set anywhere, which fits the show, by the way. And that's another show that I'm carrying on watching that I'm enjoying. We'll talk about that in the other podcast. On the Dubrovnik thing, have either of you ever been to Dubrovnik and done a Game of Thrones tour? I would love to go to Dubrovnik and do it. James, we should go together. That would be so fun. Mostly because I can't think of anybody else who'd want to go with us.
30:43Boyd Hilton:Fair enough. Although I sadly would not accompany you. The reason why I don't mention Dubrovnik is I did go to Dubrovnik on holiday once and it was one of the worst holidays I have ever been on. Why? So much so that we actually changed our flights and came back early now i it you know what i've thought about this maybe it was a place we were staying maybe it was because we were disorganized i think it was kind of pre a lot of the game of thrones stuff so actually i don't think you know game thrones wouldn't have been a factor when i went there which is probably why i was bored but yeah we just didn't have a good time it might be more about us than it was about why are you such a Dubrovnik hater?
31:19I don't know. That's really shocking. Of all the places to take against, I thought Dubrovnik would be very low.
31:23Boyd Hilton:I do remember having a particularly upsetting mushroom pie there, but I don't think that was the whole reason. Okay, well, that's on you. Any Dubrovnikians listening, please do. Yeah. Yeah, look, hey, it might be the most banging place available. I'm just saying my holiday there was not the best. How long ago was that? It was a long time. Oh. It was a long time. I'm sure I bet now it's. In fact, you know, I can date it precisely because it was around the time of the general election when David Cameron got elected. So that's what it was. Dubrovnik's changed since then. It was a while ago. It was a while ago.
31:56That's certainly pre-Game of Thrones. Yeah, I know. So there was no reason for me to be there. It'll be transformed. It'll be transformed now. Are you, when you go on holiday, as all of us are literally going on holiday any minute now, when you go on holiday, are you kind of, you are not a sit by the pool person. Are you like a -
32:10Boyd Hilton:Oh God, no. Go, go out, do tours type of person. Oh, let's just say I have an itinerary for my holiday next week. Oh Jesus. So, yeah. Every day is full. I think it should just say, have fun, which is what my holiday... We don't have time for fun, Steph. I've got stuff to do. I hope that on the itinerary it says 5pm, edit and download the podcast. Edit and upload the podcast. To Apple iTunes. Have you ever attempted to go on one of the holidays, a holiday where you just kind of like, where you relax and you just... I don't understand. Chill. No, I don't think so. That's why we would not be good holiday partners.
32:42Boyd Hilton:No, I get bored very easily. So, I don't, I wouldn't do well at that at all. Are you a swimmer? I like a swim. I like a swim. But you're not like a big inflatable type person. No, I mean, look, but the thing is, like, you can mess around in a pool, but it gets boring after a while. Like, you need to do other things. Like, kind of sit in a pool all week. I could be in the pool for hours. I like, I'm like every different type of inflatable. Pool games, literally anything. Boyd, I think, is a mixture of you and I. Yeah, yeah. He likes to do stuff, and then you do a lounge. Yeah. Boyd just likes to mooch around the streets of New York.
33:13Boyd Hilton:I love a mooch. That's your ideal holiday, isn't it? No, I'll go to Barcelona as well. I'm going to Barcelona next week. I'm so jealous about that. I really want to go. What a good time to go to Barcelona just after they've won the World Cup as well. Oh, so jealous. I would just like to officially apologise to the nation of Croatia and the residents of Dubrovnik for the next time I come, feel free to strip me naked and march me through the streets, ringing a bell, just saying shame, shame, shame. But they do that anyway. I mean, yes, that's obviously anyone who goes on holiday to Dubrovnik, that's what happens.
33:40Just imagine, James, right? If there's someone who's like related to Lisa Nandy and who is relocated to Dubrovnik. That is like your number one hater right now.
33:50Boyd Hilton:I'm saying they're unsubscribing is what I'm saying. Yeah, that seems fair. Geoffrey sends a message about The Bear. I understood the protestations about The Bear not being a comedy in the early seasons, but I defy you, defy in block capitals, to try and tell me that the facts this season were acting in a drama. Can I just say, you two both bang on about this not being a comedy, and I have really not taken you to task on it, but I also have mentioned the facts many times when we've talked about the bear. Just the facts, ma 'am. I don't think it's not an out, you know, like you can't go, oh, it's out and out.
34:26There's nothing comedic about it because there are comedic touches all the way through, not just with the facts.
34:31Boyd Hilton:Is that the definition? I would say like, you can't say, no, this is not a drama because someone smiled in one scene. Like, humor is allowed in drama. If a show doesn't have any humor in it whatsoever, it's not worth watching. If a show has no humour in it, it's the undeclared war. But if it's, you know, but most other things. I just think you really double down on it being not a comedy, so much so that you make it sound like there's nothing comedic in it. And I take your point, drama can have comedy in it, but I do think this edges towards having more comedy than those shows that are featured in out and outright drama categories.
35:11No, I think the problem is that those characters are... No. Just no, Steph. No. I think that the problem is, and by the way, it's not just James and a little bit me. No, I know. I know it isn't. It's an absolute...
35:25Boyd Hilton:Well, do you remember when The Martian, The Martian was up for best comedy at the Golden Globes? It's like, what the fuck is that? That's the most famous miscategorisation of ever, but everybody wanted it to win, so that's why. Oh, The Bear. But I think I would say The Bear was taken over as being the most famous in this categorisation in pop culture. That's what I was going to say, that it's not just, in this case, James going on about it a lot and me a little bit. It's a huge thing. It's constantly mentioned in America. It's become like a joke about the show that it's considered an out-and-out comedy.
35:56The irony of it being a joke about the show. Yeah, yeah. So I think those characters, they're like relief, aren't they? That's the thing. You know, there's loads of – there's funny characters in it, But the main thrust of the show completely became dramatic from about, you know, episode three onwards anyway. I'm not saying I'm totally like against what you're saying, but I do think you often make it, you often make it sound like it's just not, it's so, so wrong, which, okay, but it's fine. All right. This is why I haven't taken you to task on it before, because I knew I'd be shouted down and that's fine.
36:32That's fine. I'll take it.
36:35Boyd Hilton:Okay. Before we, before we chat paradise, Nice. There's a couple of more questions I want to deal with. One is from Kate and Kate simply says, watch Bluey. Yes. Hi, PallorTVPod. I've listened for ages since my son introduced you to me. At 74, I am one of your more mature listeners and love listening to you squabbling like kids, but you'll never mean. My son and I came to your live show with Russell. You wear your research lightly. I can't work out if that's passive aggressive or a nice thing. you really wear your research lightly oh my god i'm gonna use that all the time bluey is a genius i watch it when i'm not working as a much better alternative to the news i lost my beloved australian shepherd cross lucy last year getting away from us chasing a train bluey is my happy reminder of her it's so funny and gentle in its life learning lessons for small people the parents are always bested but they don't mind because they love their children one day james give up 15 minutes of gameplay and do yourself a favor you might learn some meaningful life lessons from dogs who have just as much to offer as aliens i now have an ex-breeding poodle called waffle as my adoring companion by the way boyd is wrong about lame is i worked there in the day and saw how much it meant to people glad to see steph has settled in and holds her against James's occasional judgmental pronouncements.
37:56Boyd Hilton:Hope you keep going for the foreseeable future. Kate. Okay, can I just address Kate directly? Okay, Kate, I'm so excited that you have sent in this message. Okay, because obviously we are, you know, completely aligned on everything. Lame is, I can't even get into that with Boyd, the lame is thing, because lame is absolutely magical and wonderful and everything about it is brilliant. I'm really sad about your dog. I'm really sorry about that. But please send us a picture of Waffle. But I'm very happy you've got Waffle. And I don't know if you watch Waffle, the Wonder Dog show, but that's also really nice.
38:28But it's not bluey, but it is nice. What's great about blue is it kind of has these dual meanings. You know, so it's got, you know, there's a storyline for adults and there's a lesson for children. And when it was originally conceived, the whole series was conceived for kind of underprivileged families in Australia and to try and teach them about how to raise children and give them lessons in child rearing. and obviously if you don't know this the other amazing thing about bluey is that the tone of it the colors of it are specific so that dogs can watch it so it's the colors that dogs can take
39:03Boyd Hilton:take it because they're colorblind aren't they yeah well they're not particularly colorblind but they see blues and yellows so if you see dogs watching blue it's because it's it's pleasing to them and they can they can see everything so there's so much there's so much brilliance behind behind this show it's absolutely just and you can enjoy it as an adult as we have proved whereas This whole Bluey thing Are we saying We should talk about Bluey on the show And have Bluey Spoiler special chats There's going to be a new series of Bluey And there's a Bluey movie coming out It's just a really beautiful show And it's genuinely funny It's great I'm going to send you A list of two Bluey episodes to watch and I want you to tell me What you think of them and they're like seven minutes It is funny that you bring this up, Steph, because that brings us onto our last point of order as part of this postbag.
39:55Boyd Hilton:Last week, we discussed the fact that all of us are animation philistines. And I suggested that some of our listeners write in with suggestions using the subject line animation education, and they were going to tell us things that we should watch. I was genuinely quite surprised at the lack of response we got to that. We did not get anywhere near as many as I thought, because I thought people would jump at the chance to force us to watch some animated stuff. But no, not that many. So I'm going to say a reminder today to send us your suggestions, because what the plan is now, we are going to collate those suggestions, and we're going to pass them on to, Boydie, your friend, John, who works in animation.
40:36Boyd Hilton:Oh, yeah. And John has volunteered to go through them and use them to curate a viewing program for us, which we are then going to watch, and then we will reveal our findings on a special animated, well, not animated, we're not going to be literal cartoons ourselves, but an animated episode of this particular podcast. So we will do our special deep dive into animation under John's supervision. Fantastic. And then see what we think. See if we, can we be converted to the world of animation? Can we learn to appreciate it? I keep saying this, I like animation. I don't know, you keep grouping me in with you two.
41:10I like animation.
41:12Boyd Hilton:Do you watch a lot of animation, Steph? Yes, because I have a seven-year-old fucking always watching animation. Ladybug and Cat Noir is literally my jam. I'm like on it constantly. This is about a superhero. Ladybug and Cat Noir. Ladybug and Cat Noir. It's like a girl and she's the Ladybug and she's half, she's like, she turns into a Ladybug and Cat Noir is a boy and he turns to Cat and they love each other. She loves him in real life and he loves her when they're in superhero life. It's honestly, they're in Paris. It's just, it's immense. I'm watching Wolf King at the moment On Netflix I watch animation constantly Like literally I would say 70 % of things I watch are animation At the moment Yes they are for seven year olds Can I just say We've got exciting breaking news here Which is that Yeah Variety is reporting As we speak That the Paramount Warner Brothers merger Has been paused Wow Due to concerns from states About that the merger would violate Is that breaking?
42:10I thought that was I thought that had been around for a little while I think this is no it's literally this is a new development because I know that there was definitely
42:19Boyd Hilton:a pause going on because it has been flagged in the US so it at least may not be needed to be fair it's the main story on Variety right now maybe it's developed in some way but I knew there was something going on that they hit a roadblock it was just delayed 90 years 90 years I'm saying on you found respect for Lisa and her abilities, she may not be needed. So Lisa can stand down because America may in fact right this particular wrong themselves. But we'll see. We will see. Yeah, but please do write in with these animation suggestions because I think that's going to be a good episode. And we're going to find...
42:58Do you know what? If you know of any animated musicals like Les Mis for Boyd to watch, that'd be great. You'd like that, wouldn't you, Boyd? Oh, God.
43:08Boyd Hilton:that would be good okay
43:13Boyd Hilton:Boyd this has been a long time coming we have threatened this for what must be about six months at this point but we are finally going to discuss Paradise Season 2 I honestly don't know that I remember a lot of it but some people who wrote in about Paradise did complain that it went very much off the rails and by the end you know with the AI and the bunker being destroyed and all this sort of stuff they had really just lost the will to go on with it would you say you fall into that category or did you enjoy it um no i'm not i haven't fallen into that category completely but and i did enjoy it by and large but there were definitely are elements of it that i found um annoying so particularly the whole ai thing which of course it has in common with the capture right you've got these two big series where they have a mystery name and that who's what's the name of the AI in the capture?
44:03It's Alex. No, in the capture. Oh, in the capture. I can't remember. Simon. Simon says. So you've got Simon in that and Alex in this. And you just know, I just knew as soon as Alex became a thing in this second season that it was going to turn out to be an AI thing, which it did. And I just think that twist was so telegraphed and also when it was at the end of whichever episode it was where they finally revealed that, maybe I want to say the seventh episode, Panosso episode maybe, where she goes on that long journey to the special other bunker. And you're like, yeah, but this is so obviously what's going to happen.
44:42I almost felt like the grandiosity, if that's a word, of the reveal in that show was almost comical because it was so obvious what it was going to be. And I just thought it was just that whole element of it, I thought didn't work because it was such a predictable twist. and the other thing that I thought was weird was you know Jane right so Jane the assassin there was this whole thing in the episode which the kind of almost standalone episode about her about the fact that people were warned that she was going to be born a killer right this whole thing about yeah there's a weird predestination
45:22Boyd Hilton:thing going on isn't there and suddenly there's this supernatural almost like the Damien Omen 2 or something. You know, it's going to be born to the earth and Rick Havoc. And I was like, where does this come from? This whole idea suddenly, and it's not, and that, I don't know, I thought it was like a deep, a massive dive into the supernatural all of a sudden, or, you know, like a character who's... Who started off as kind of a, a kind of cheeky, Nintendo Wii loving character and now she's, you know. Who's a psychopath. Who's a psychopath, yeah. But now what? Who was created there? What were you meant to think about that?
45:57I just didn't. And then they kind of dropped it. They kind of had it in the episode, but they didn't really go any further in explaining. But also there's the idea that,
46:05Boyd Hilton:you know, is Link actually like the, like somehow connected to Sinatra's dead child and all that. So all of that was quite woolly as well. I'm not sure I fully understood what that was about. No, indeed. Yeah. Yeah. So I did have issues with it. And even, you know what, this guy, the, the creator of the show, Dan Fogelman. What he loves to do, and this goes back to previous shows of his and films of his, like, you know, This Is Us particularly. What he loves to do is he loves to get a character, almost like a supporting character, and then suddenly do a deep dive into them and explain their psyche and have lots of flashbacks.
46:48And he does it with the postman guy, right, in this, who turns out to be a lunatic, another psychopath, right? who's obsessively in love with Xavier's wife. And that episode I found was really like, first of all, the idea that a postman man goes postal, and it was a bit much. And then, I don't know, the first version we see of him, he seems such a lovely, you know, kind of cosy, cuddly guy. And I know Dan Fogelman's trick is, oh, you think you know this guy, that actually turns out to be a complete psycho. But I just, I didn't quite buy it. I just didn't buy it. And I think, and I started to, you can see the manipulation sometimes with Dan Fogelman.
47:34That's my issue, I think. And it was like, you know, wouldn't it be great if this lovely guy turned out to be a psycho? And you're like, I don't know about that. And so I felt like that was happening more in this season than it was in season one.
47:46Boyd Hilton:Yeah, I think that's fair. I think, I don't know how much this went to his original plan. Like, I think he said that he always wanted the bunker to be destroyed at the end of the second season. that was always the plan that they were going to get kind of evicted as it were but how much of this because it felt to me a little bit like this got away from them like i i love the first episode of this season the graceland episode yeah i think that's so good but sharlene woodley and i really loved her character and i like the love story and i like how it establishes link i was really involved in that and almost got to the point where when xavier comes back i was a bit like oh like not that i don't like him but i got so invested in that story and then to have her you know then die and just go out of the story so quickly just felt like oh that's really disappointing i thought she was great um and then the split narrative between what happens in the bunker and what happens outside the bunker i think i found myself being more interested in the outside the bunker stuff and less in invested in what happened inside it um and it started to feel to me just quite generic i was enjoying it don't get me wrong i was enjoying it but it did start to feel a little bit generic and you know when Xavier and Terry finally you know get the reunion that he finds his wife and she finds him and that all found quite felt quite anticlimactic and a little bit flat which I think was partly deliberate but it was it was a very understated scene and so yeah I don't know I felt a little poorly served by this and part of it is the understanding I get that you know Link helps build Alex like that's partly his child you know he's created this thing and and Sinatra feel she has this connection to him.
49:14Boyd Hilton:But I just don't think I bought some of the developments. As you say, you're man the postman, possibly. But the idea that trying to lock down the bunker while also doing this other thing is going to cause this horrendous feedback loop that's actually going to cause the whole thing to blow up. It's like, really? I don't know. That felt like an unnecessary contrivance. it felt like that only exists because they need it to exist. And it felt like you couldn't have come up with something that was more organic and believable. That just seemed so... And then you had the flashback where like, well, don't ever try and do this, because if you ever do, it'll cause an irreversible cascade of events.
49:55And you're like, wow,
49:56Boyd Hilton:I wonder if that will turn out to be important. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I just think, yeah, all of that. I mean, it's still very entertaining. It's still kind of incredibly well done. You know, like visually, it's among the most cinematic shows out there but it was definitely a bit all over the place I think the second season I think so. Sinatra's dead, Jane we're not sure about, that's a little bit ambiguous, we think she's dead but who knows and then Dan Fogelman has been asked is Link actually Sinatra's son and all he said was, this was his quote, she certainly thinks so, that is what we're intending the audience to feel Even if you don't trust her motivations when she's saying something or completely comprehend it, it seems true.
50:43Boyd Hilton:Is he her son is a tricky question because of where we're going on a science fiction level. But yes, we're meant to believe that he is her son or a version thereof. Yes. And that's another thing as well. Doesn't the idea that he is her son rely on massive amounts of coincidence? And possibly sci-fi stuff too. Because this has, like, this show started off as, let's be honest, it was a political thriller in a sci-fi kind of rapper. And the sci-fi-ness of it was almost secondary. Like, it was the political thriller. Season one was all political thriller, but it had this kind of slight bubbling underlying layer of sci-fi.
51:23Boyd Hilton:This is now, it's got to the point where it's just a sci-fi show. Like, it's like the political thriller stuff has almost been abandoned, and it feels like it's become a sci-fi show. And honestly, I think that is what weakened it. Because I think the political stuff in the first season was what made it so compelling. yeah definitely yeah yeah um so i think that is a shame yeah i agree yeah is she is she definitely dead is that right i can't i can't remember sinatra well the whole mountain falls down on her so i'm saying she has i think i think uh what's the first julianne nicholson will be in the next season i suspect in flashbacks and in some other form but i think she is definitely dead because like you said the next season is going to be all about the ai but also about the child annie and Link's child is going to have a big role to play in the next season.
52:04Boyd Hilton:So I'm assuming there will be some kind of time jump so the child can get a little bit older. He said the show's going to play with time, but obviously that's quite vague. We don't know what that means. But it always does, doesn't it? Anyway, I mean, it's always flashing back and forward and sideways. You know, he loves it. He can't stop doing it. Yeah. I mean, he does. That's the other thing. He's obsessed. He loves a flashback. He does love a flashback, yes. but this last season the third season will be the last so he is ending it with the third season so it's not going to go on in perpetuity so he clearly has an arc to it and a destination which is good yeah Julianna Margulies is going to be in season 3 isn't she yeah I saw that I mean that's that's pretty good casting isn't it yeah yeah she's always great hmm we'll see I don't know I am no longer as excited about season 3 as I was going into season 2 because I loved the first season so much but the first season in and of itself still had a trashiness to it didn't it like it was there was a hint of guilty pleasure to it but it was a lot of fun.
53:01Yeah, it stretches
53:02Boyd Hilton:credulity, as we say, very inspiring. Yeah, very much so. But it's still worth it because it's so entertaining. Yeah, it's a giggle. But yeah, so now you end with, the bunker's been destroyed, nuclear bomb's gone off, they've got to go and find Alex, the quantum AI supercomputer because of course they do. They've got this baby to look after and you've got a bunch of people who've essentially been living a very pampered you know, normal life now wandering out into this post-apocalyptic wasteland, Steph's favourite thing. where everyone is starting again and seeing how they cope with that. So, I don't know.
53:33Boyd Hilton:We shall see. There you go. That was our half-arsed discussion of what we can remember of Paradise. We really do need to do this in a more timely fashion. But we hope you have tolerated that and that is it for this particular episode of Pilot Plus. I apologise for everything you have sat through for the last better part of an hour. We will be back in your ears on Monday for the regular show. the last regular show before I go on holiday hooray! And we are going to be reviewing variously Furious on Disney +, The Rapture on the BBC, I think it's on the BBC and The Vampire Lestat which has finally made its way to UK screens after having aired in its entirety in the US exciting stuff, see you on Monday, pilot out
54:26Thank you.
From the publisher
We’re back at GCHQ this week as Simon Pegg returns to our screens as a cyber warrior fending off Russian hacks in series two of The Undeclared War on Channel 4. Plus, we confront everything from politics to Bluey in this week’s postbag and James and Boyd FINALLY get around to their long-delayed spoiler chat for Paradise Season 2 — if they can actually remember what happened.
Want your messages read out as part of The Postbag? Email us at postbag@pilottvpod.com
