PLUS Unchosen

11:49Fra Fee:Yeah, Molly Windsor, sorry, Molly Windsor. So the real star of this for me is Asa Butterfield because what happens to him, without spoiling it, throughout the series is something to behold. And I didn't watch Sex Education. What? I know, I know, I know. I'm sorry.

12:06Asa Butterfield:Just because there's no crime in it. I know. I'm an arsehole. I'm really sorry.

12:10Fra Fee:It's just I haven't got around to it. It's just one of those things I haven't got around to, but I will. So I don't know a lot of Asa Butterfield's work, but he's sensational in this.

12:19Asa Butterfield:I interviewed him for Empire magazine and he was an absolute delight.

12:23Fra Fee:Yeah, he seems like he'd be a delight. Even though he's not a delight in this. He's the opposite of a delight in this. But yeah, everyone's brilliant. Christopher Eccleston, this feels like he is the cult leader. That's how good he is at this, doesn't it? He's very well cast.

12:39Asa Butterfield:Yeah, he's very good at that. Really, really well cast.

12:43Fra Fee:It's the same kind of level of excellent casting as David Morrissey in that. what's that ITV show we watched the other day which was The Headmaster yeah it felt very like gone yeah gone which I instantly forgot

12:53Molly Windsor:because you hit another show with a terrible generic title I know

12:56Fra Fee:and our petition to get people to stop doing that has really gone nowhere

12:59Molly Windsor:yeah they must stop doing that

13:01Fra Fee:yeah really enjoyed it I thought it was absolutely brilliant it's hard to talk about without giving away any spoilers because so many things happened in the first episode no I haven't finished the last episode so please don't tell me because I finished the the rest of something else we're going to be watching but we'll talk about that yeah I loved it

13:17Asa Butterfield:There are certain moments, aren't there? I mean, at the beginning, and in fact, throughout, as it turns out, storm clouds are gathering, aren't they? Quite literally. Literally, yeah. I mean, to the point where there's always a storm on the horizon. In fact, and then in the finale, it's full on raining. Oh, is it? Yeah, wind, rain, storm. Well, that's, I mean, that's... Subtlety, I would say, is not necessarily one of its strong points. But sometimes you don't need subtlety. You don't need subtlety. Sometimes you just need a slam-bang bit of thriller of fun.

13:45Fra Fee:But what you have to remember, Boyd, is that at the core of all kind of fundamentalist cults is the idea that there's going to be an apocalypse. And that's the whole point of this, that they are the chosen ones. And they mention it several times that, you know, don't worry, because in layman's terms, when the world goes to shit and everything ends and there's this apocalyptic storm that ends humanity, they are the chosen ones.

14:08Asa Butterfield:Isn't that just Christianity? Sorry, I don't want to get controversial, but you know. If we're talking pure theology, then well. I mean, and by the way, as a committed and very proud atheist, I reject all, I think they're all cults, you know, completely. But, so this is a specific type of cult that is very interesting to see.

14:26Fra Fee:Well, right, okay, this is going to sound like I'm a cult member. I'm not at all. um and but i always find it absolutely fascinating um as to why people join and i think by the end of this you understand why all those people are members of that cult do you know what i mean like all the way through like oh i know why she joined the cult they fulfill psychological needs

14:49Christopher Ecclestone:like i don't remember like if you went to university i'm sure you got like a cults on campus pamphlet when you joined university and they would tell you of like the the you know the the techniques that the cults use to get members in people like you how to avoid yeah that what they do is they start podcasts about key subjects and then it become quite tyrannical and dictatorial and make you do certain things but won't let you do others and sometimes don't really explain what their methodology is just surprise you and change the format without any notice things like that yeah um but but ultimately they're looking for people you know they use things like love bombing and inclusivity and whatnot because they're looking for people who who are maybe rudderless or disenfranchised and they give them purpose and they give them rigor and structure and belonging and all of these things that people often, when they're lonely, need.

15:28Molly Windsor:And so you can see how they're quite attractive.

15:30Fra Fee:I'm just going to stop you there and say, I don't know why, but you really, I don't know why you don't do it already, but you really need to stop writing for my magazine because that's wonderful. I'm going to start commissioning you to write cults exposed.

15:43Molly Windsor:Well, you know, don't do that because then I won't be able to form my own proper cults. It's still one of my ambitions. Self-exposed, I think. Let's keep this just between you, me, Boyd, And the Pilot Plus subscribers. The dire army. The dire army doesn't need any more. They're already part of the cult. They're fine with it. It's all good.

16:02Christopher Ecclestone:So I think, and I think this does that well, but also it shows you the psychological model of the people at the top of the cult and why they had this pyramid structure. Because for Eccleston and Siobhan Finneran, who's really good as his wife, for them, it's about power. All of it's about power. They have power over these people. And the kind of the religious aspect of it is the kind of the weight, the heft that gives them their authority. and makes them feel good about themselves because it makes them feel powerful and relevant and worthwhile. And you can see, because like Siobhan Finneran is all up in everybody's business.

16:32Christopher Ecclestone:And she's like, she's all over Molly Windsor. You're a sinner, you know, and she castigates her child for reading the Beano because, you know, sinful. I've read the Beano. She's not wrong.

16:42Molly Windsor:You know, sorry.

16:45Christopher Ecclestone:Dennis the Menace lived up to his name. But, you know, and I thought that was really interesting. So it shows you a lot of what's appealing about these things and also the flaws within them and, you know, how they come about. And, you know, the poster for this show has rule six, men will provide. Rule seven, women are subservient. Rule eight, rule breakers will be punished. And I think at the beginning, the kind of oppressive patriarchy of this religious group is slightly undersold. And then as it goes on, it really kind of leans into that in quite a big way. Certainly by the end of the first episode, it's very much there.

17:19Molly Windsor:I find that kind of oppressive, abusive, patriarchal stuff really quite hard to watch. so i found this really squirmingly quite stressful but the thing that diffused it for me is the moments of and i have to say it fucking stupidity and that lake sequence really was a big one for me because i was just like what is happening and then there is a bit where someone is trying to save the child from the water and agrees a level of staggering ineptitude the likes of which i have never seen this oh a branch i cannot save my child because there is an awkward branch in the way and I was like, for fuck's sake.

17:54Molly Windsor:And it's just like, I get it. The whole point is, you know, there's a narrative reason why she isn't going to get to it. That's fine. That's not a problem. But for fuck's sake, come up with something better than a branch. Like something, anything, a gaping chasm, a meteor, whatever you want. But the branch was not enough. And then, and then, and then, there is a sequence in a hospital.

18:15Christopher Ecclestone:And they are trying to show you the sort of juxtaposition of this insular, religious, ascetic life that they have versus the sin of modern life.

18:26Molly Windsor:There are two people climbing down each other's throats in A &E. I've been to an A &E. It is not the sexiest place on earth. No one is dry humping against a wall in A &E. It doesn't happen.

18:39Fra Fee:Oh, hold on. You haven't been to an A &E in Luton. That's probably true.

18:43Molly Windsor:Where I live, that stuff, you don't really get that at the local general hospital um so you had that and then there was a little girl on a switch you know it's just oh bit in nintendo it's sinful so i just i felt a little bit like certainly early on this lacks subtlety and obviously as boyd you said like you know the the you know the foreshadowing of storms and stuff it's not like it's leaning into subtlety but little things like that that had a layer of absurdity to it that i kind of found myself rolling my eyes quite heavily at i thought you

19:09Fra Fee:were going to mention the bit in the hospital where they do they use the um tv behind to do the news report so you know who one of the characters is i didn't mind that because it was

19:21Christopher Ecclestone:like it was like uh it was one of those kind of unreliable narrator thing like a rashomon type moment where you're you're seeing the same sequence but you're focusing on a different thing in the frame which you missed the first time so i actually didn't mind that i was like okay interesting it was a little again not subtle but then there is a sequence at the end this

19:38Molly Windsor:episode no spoilers i'm not gonna say what it is but there is a sequence of slow motion running and I have to ask the question, who thought that was a good idea? The slow motion running. I just like, I don't know why, but these little stylistic things just kind of made me giggle. I don't even remember that. Who's running in slow motion? I don't either. I can't say. But there was a sequence at the end where someone's slow motion runs away from the camera. I was just like, what is happening?

20:02Fra Fee:I think, I really agree with you, but I think, right, I agree with you, James, in that it's not subtle, but I don't think it needs to be. And I think because they're merging these two sort of like it's a thriller and it's a cult thing and it could it could be one or the other and I really enjoyed the thriller aspect of it and this kind of infiltrating of this cult and how it affects everyone around but yeah it isn't subtle but I don't think it needs to be I mean I do just want to say again it is not a lake it is a small body of water within within a woodland okay

20:36Molly Windsor:it's not a vast lake it's a very small lake it's a pond isn't it it's a pond it's

20:41Fra Fee:let's be honest it's a pond i thought you might take against the kind of slow motion the slow motion drowning scenes and just that there's some kind of yes also that i don't think i'm going to

20:52Molly Windsor:that but yes there's a bit she gets her foot tangled in some duck weed and it's just again

20:56Christopher Ecclestone:it's one of these things where there's nothing wrong with any of that whole sequence i just think it needed to be cut differently i don't think the edit there does it any favors uh just perhaps that's just the way it was shot the way it was framed but i think it yeah it needed a

21:10Molly Windsor:little bit of rethinking james volunteering to be the editor now yeah i'll come in and recut it for

21:15Fra Fee:you i don't think it takes away from your enjoyment of it though because it doesn't it doesn't it just

21:20Asa Butterfield:i just thought i thought it was it was it was an it was an unfortunate for me like little road bump oh i know what you mean i totally get it get what james is saying because honestly it gets it's it's even there's even more um what shall we call it um stretching your credulity as it goes on because the thriller element becomes more and more kind of key really to the whole to the whole thing i just think that's kind of what i was trying to say really which is that is that when you clash when you're it could just be imagine this whole story in which fraffy's character comes into the lives of a small religious sect and has this huge impact on various of the characters right that that could have been a version of the show then you've also got well what is he what has he done who is he is who's escaping from all of the thrillery stuff that then kind of becomes the driver of the story, particularly in the second half.

22:11Asa Butterfield:And I think the more it leans into the thrillery stuff, the more often it does have those moments which are a bit, oh, come on, you know, like the storm clouds and all of that that gets very blatantly obvious, you know, the symbolism of all that. So, but having said all that, I agree with you, Steph, that it doesn't detract from my enjoyment. it's almost intrinsic to the thriller to the modern day if you like particularly the current streaming thriller world that almost every so called thriller is bored along preposterous because I was thinking about writing a thing about this the other day I don't know you for but it's almost like all creators of thrillers now are like egging each other on you know to be more and more twisty and turny and outrageous and powerful

22:53Fra Fee:Do you think it is the Ryan Murphy effect that is trickled down and everybody now has to be super like... I don't know.

23:01Asa Butterfield:In some ways...

23:02Fra Fee:Saturated colour and madness.

23:04Asa Butterfield:Yeah, a little bit. I don't know if it's entirely him, but I was thinking of that behind her eyes. Was that what it was called?

23:10Molly Windsor:Yeah, Sarah Pimbra's, the adaptation of her book.

23:13Asa Butterfield:Sarah Pimbra. Yeah, she did this amazing adaptation of her novel. Extraordinary show. Yeah, it's absolutely insane, right? Brilliant. And this is, what, five years ago probably now, and then she did another show, which was almost just as out there. I just think there's a lot of thriller writers, all of the ones, you know, like The Woman in the Window and all of these things have big, big, big, huge, twisty, turny narratives. And I do think there's a desire out there in the world of TV thrillers to outdo one another. And there's a little bit of that in this. It actually doesn't go particularly as far as a lot of other ones, but those are the moments where you think, oh, come on.

23:55Christopher Ecclestone:did you enjoy it though james yeah no i thought i thought it was decent i think honestly are you going to carry on no i'm not going to carry on but that's more to do with my personal tastes about yeah because i i i have that whole weird thing about like abuse of power dynamics across and i found the whole thing just quite a stressful watch you know kind of the abusive men and like locking people up and it's all just like again it's like i just i just i found it quite stressful

24:20Asa Butterfield:the treatment of the brother his brother is really stressful yeah that is really that is

24:24Fra Fee:really really very stressful that that was yeah i had to kind of yeah do you know what what i've been doing lately is when i find when we're watching shows and i'm finding them too stressful what i've been doing is then just watching them on my phone instead because i feel when i watch yes i know that sounds mad boyd's looking at me like i'm insane right okay listen you know like Like when we watched Beef the other week, right? And I was finding the argument so stressful. I was like, I can't watch this. I've got to watch it on my phone. Because just making it physically smaller really helped.

25:01Molly Windsor:I do get that. Oh my God, James, I love you.

25:04Fra Fee:Thank you.

25:05Molly Windsor:I 100 % get that. Because on a big TV, it feels a bit overwhelming. Whereas it feels somehow you can minimise it and get control over it. But also, sometimes I'll find myself dual screening deliberately when watching something like that. like i'll just quickly like have like twitter up on my phone or something like just well i don't look at twitter anymore just because you can't yeah just because i can't be laser focused on it i need to break myself out of it a little bit and have a little bit of a buffer between it and me

25:26Fra Fee:for my delicate sensibilities yeah no i totally i found beef so stressful and i was saying to uh boyden k that i found it really stressful because the the arguments in it was so i mean it's such a realistic and i said at the time i was like i think i've got that thing that james has got about about cringe comedy that I can't watch these kind of arguments because it was just too much. So I haven't watched any more of Beef. Have you, Boyd? You've watched the whole thing, I bet.

25:50Asa Butterfield:I've watched more. I haven't watched Finished yet, but it's excellent. It's really, really good. Yeah, well worth.

25:55Fra Fee:Okay, no, I am going to continue with it, but just on my... If they make anything smaller than a phone, then I'll watch it on that.

26:02Christopher Ecclestone:Could I just, before we move on from our unjosen discussion, there is a title card at the beginning of this that points out that their particular sect, the name of which I cannot remember, but their particular sect is fictional. But they say there are 2 ,000 cults operating in the UK. That blew my mind. Oh my God, there are cults everywhere. 2 ,000. Because that's ridiculous. There are so many more podcasts than that. That'll keep Steph's cult slot going, so to speak.

26:28Fra Fee:Honestly, you would think that I would have run out of cults, right, in seven years of writing Cults Exposed. There are cults everywhere. I don't even want to get into America. and the other thing is they're so far reaching because you can now you can be a member of a cult and you can just be a member online but you know what I mean so there's like loads of cults that like that in Russia there's a shit ton of cults like honestly they're absolutely everywhere but that but like I said I said this previously it is absolutely fascinating to me why anyone would want to become a member of a cult what people really get out of it and there is no denying that some people get something out of being a member of a cult and they might be doing something they do it does it feeds something and that's why people stay in cults and find it so hard to leave cults and obviously when it gets if you get into a polygamous cult then obviously you know you've got all those family ties and there's been absolutely i mean they've they've netflix have just uh released false prophet which is about um a couple infiltrating a infiltrating a cult which I haven't watched yet which is I'm told is absolutely brilliant um but yeah it's uniquely fascinating that anyone would want to join it but you can in some ways understand when people are feeling so lost in a in the world like they need something like you said um James and maybe a cult

27:42Molly Windsor:is the answer not it isn't but for some people just to clarify join a cult says Steph that's

27:49Fra Fee:her advice to all of you listening do not join a cult we're in the cult of human humanity and just stay within that cult and be a good person just that's that's my you know okay surrounded

27:58Asa Butterfield:by cults cults to the left of us cults to the right of us cults everywhere don't join cults

28:04Christopher Ecclestone:but also thank you for subscribing to pilot plus we very much appreciate your custom church meetings are fridays at three okay okay let's move on to the post bag and see what joys what delights lie within

28:28Molly Windsor:ah yes this one i didn't send to k because i thought best for me to deal with this while i'm

28:34Christopher Ecclestone:here this comes from anna morris and it is called the hypocrisy oh this is gonna be good

28:41Molly Windsor:dear pilot tv team i have to take five minutes out of my day to comment on the huge hypocrisy of James criticising the influence of American English on British English when he is constantly using American English words. The most irritating being oftentimes, which he frequently uses rather than often, which suggests frequency does not require the times clarification. I was so shocked that this was a bugbear of his. But otherwise, thank you for the fabulous pod, Anna. Oftentimes, wow. Oftentimes is an Americanism. Yes, that is absolutely true.

29:16Fra Fee:Yeah, and you do say that a lot.

29:18Molly Windsor:I do, and I'm now going to make a conscious effort to stop it, especially because I just read a review for Empire Magazine this morning, and I took out the word gotten and just wrote not English, because it isn't. Oh, you pompous twat. It's an Americanism, so that's gone. So I can't strike gotten from the record while using things like oftentimes.

29:36Fra Fee:Oftentimes. Now I'm realising how much you say oftentimes.

29:39Molly Windsor:Once again, the hypocrisy. Yeah, the hypocrisy is real. To be fair, when we talked about the Americanism, and I said it was a bugbear of mine, I did hold my hand up at the time and say, I am also guilty of sometimes doing this, but I am much like a smoker or a crack addict trying to break my reliance on American English. So, you know.

29:58Fra Fee:Yeah, you're so much like a crack addict.

29:59Molly Windsor:In many ways, Steph. In many ways.

30:02Fra Fee:Okay, well, I think you should apologise to Anna.

30:04Molly Windsor:Sorry, Anna. I apologise. I apologise for oftentimes using American English when I mean British English.

30:11Christopher Ecclestone:okay we have something here from matthew and matthew says because you've all been banging on about broad church again recently i thought i'd bring it up again now uh just at the point where it's slightly too late to make any sense bringing it up my question is series two of broad church a critique of detective shows in general as well as specifically series one of Broadchurch so the confession series one builds to the perfect you know what I can't really do this because I was about to read all of this out because he's done a very clear breakdown of the structure of season two and whether or not it is a deliberate critique of detective tv shows but I cannot actually read this out Matt without dropping spoilers for season one and season two of Broadchurch and as people pointed out the statute of limitations may have in many ways elapsed but lots of people started watching it because I was talking about it and were like this was great i had no idea what was going to happen so i can't in good conscience reveal all the things you said it's a very well-reasoned quite long argument that he's put together i will simply say that um series two and i think this is fairly well known is the court case resulting from the crime in series one and so to a certain extent it does undo a lot of the kind of structure of series one because they have to unpick it because to have a trial there has to be ambiguity and so to a certain extent i think that is definitely the case uh and so there's a little bit of of retconning there that said while a lot of people didn't like series two of broad church as i think i mentioned when i watched it i thought it was great and i really enjoyed looking at a slightly different aspect on that whole crime so i thought it was really good steph you're obviously a big old broad church fan did you like series two of this yeah i was just gonna say they did that with the

31:50Fra Fee:fall do you remember they did that with the fall where they had the court case as the second the third is it the third series the court case i can't remember but i i really like i really like that and i loved it in broad church like you say because i don't want to give away the spoiler unexpected things happens and please are not what you think they're going to be and you're like oh what how are they going to do this and like you said you need that ambiguity to uh propel the story along and make a whole season of it um but yeah no i what is the what was the question was

32:19Christopher Ecclestone:it that it was it i think he was saying is it you know what was it a critique of the detective drama as a whole because a lot of the things that happen in series one are if you will detective show tropes that are used to close off the story and series two essentially says because you did these things now this person might get away with it or did they even do it because you were so

32:41Molly Windsor:fucking slapdash for the sake of drama rather than following kind of police procedure as you actually would and it's like that's kind of fair comment yeah that's a god i do you know i've never

32:51Fra Fee:ever thought about that and that is such a clever analysis of it yeah because and it's exactly what happens in the fall as well do you remember boy d the fall it's been so long i don't remember i

33:01Asa Butterfield:remember him in hospital when when he's oh the hospital yeah and then they then they do the

33:07Fra Fee:trial and it is very much like the broad church thing yeah that's god that's that's kind of blown my mind a bit that's a really clever way to look at i didn't even think about that

33:13Christopher Ecclestone:well i guess law and order is the one thing that doesn't fall down that trap because you have all the stages, don't you? Well, he made Law & Order UK, of course.

33:22Asa Butterfield:Chris Chibnall. Chris Chibnall. Of course, of course. He was showrunner for Law & Order UK, and he's a big Agatha Christie fan. So I wouldn't, I think critique of, I wouldn't say critique is a critique. I would say it's definitely a comment on the, you know, the job. On the third series.

33:37Fra Fee:On the third series, yeah.

33:39Asa Butterfield:And if you mean critique of the actions of the characters, then yeah, I get it. Yeah, yeah. That's what you mean, yeah. But it's interesting, like,

33:45Christopher Ecclestone:To create an interesting and compelling crime drama, you take narrative steps that actually would fuck you when you get to the trial stage.

33:53Asa Butterfield:Yeah, yeah.

33:54Fra Fee:That's one of my bugbears, actually, when I watch crime dramas and we watch, and I don't want to silent witness bash again, but one of my major problems with silent witness was there were things that happened in that that just wouldn't happen, especially in terms of interview techniques and the way people were handled. I was like, that just wouldn't happen.

34:15Asa Butterfield:Oh, I mean, interview techniques in crime dramas is just, you might as well just give up.

34:20Christopher Ecclestone:If it was realistic, would it not just be someone saying no comment repeatedly for like 20 minutes?

34:24Molly Windsor:Yeah, 100%. And then they'd leave the room. 100%, yeah.

34:26Asa Butterfield:So that's not drama. Remember, there was one episode of that Netflix, which is called Criminal. Criminal, yeah. One episode did involve the other person pretty much saying no comment. Yes, just saying no comment, no comment. And that was the most realistic one ever, wasn't it? Because if you watch 24 Hours in Police Custody or any of those shows, those fixed rigs, police investigation shows, absolutely, the solicitors always tell the clients just to say no comment. And there's loads of scenes in crime thrillers where the police go around to someone's house and interview them, you know, and they basically let them incriminate themselves in like a milliard way.

35:00Asa Butterfield:You're like, this is not how it works. But don't they tell you,

35:03Molly Windsor:I remember them saying, even if you are completely innocent of a crime, you should basically say no comment to everything. Steph, you'll know, you're an expert at getting away with crimes. Is that what you should do?

35:13Fra Fee:Well, I would always, Just in general, always take the advice of your lawyer. And if you are completely, yeah, because you, I would say, if you're completely innocent of a crime, you wouldn't say no comment because also you don't want to be held in contempt if you do have some knowledge about something that is, as long as it's not going to incriminate yourself further. That's the whole point, isn't it?

35:32Asa Butterfield:You say you're allowed to say no comment without incriminating yourself. That's the whole point.

35:37Fra Fee:Yeah, but the thing is, if you have knowledge that can advance the crime, because I imagine if at some stage you've been arrested for something and you're being interviewed, you have some, there is some link between you and the crime. Do you know what I mean? They don't just go around arresting random people. Okay.

35:52Molly Windsor:I mean, remember, I refer you again to Exhibit A, the first season of Broadchurch, where they, and I cannot emphasize it enough, drag in literally fucking everyone who lives in that town and interrogate them under caution. And half of them have nothing to do with anything. Yeah. I mean, saying that,

36:08Fra Fee:there's about 60 % of the prison population that are actually innocent. So anyway, wow let's not get into that it's no it's it's not it's not that percentage but there is a high

36:16Asa Butterfield:percentage especially in america steph steph i know you're just so prime mugs and everything

36:20Fra Fee:but it doesn't mean you can just make stuff up no i'm sorry i'm sorry it's not sorry it's not there is a high percentage of incarcerated um prisoners well they're always incarcerated

36:31Christopher Ecclestone:um that are that are innocent that's exactly what i was gonna say how could you how would anyone have that statistic because by definition if we know for a fact they're innocent you would think that at that point there would be some kind of that's that's why the innocence project exists

36:46Fra Fee:which is a whole um that the only thing that they do is get people out of get people out of prison do you like let's just remember i could talk about this for hours but let's just remember that what kind of world but the thing is is like let's just remember that some countries i don't want to get political about this some countries the legal justice system is is is not in favor of certain groups of people. And so you're generally, you know, more likely to be... Yeah, okay. I just don't want to get too political because I know they don't like it.

37:20Christopher Ecclestone:They're biased against podcasters.

37:22Fra Fee:That's what you're saying. But what ends up happening is when you have a society like that is that lots of people who are actually not guilty of a crime end up being convicted and languish in prison for years and years and years until someone goes, oh, actually, they didn't get a fair trial. And oh no, there was no evidence. Oh God, that's terrible. Let's try and get them out. But anyway, that could be a whole other show which is not this show it's a show about crime

37:43Christopher Ecclestone:a podcast that Steph has yet to start but I'm sure will do at some point soon right here a message here from Jeffrey Jeffrey Card and Jeffrey said hello pod people I finally figured out the litmus test for whether something is a film or a tv show oh always good always good

37:59Fra Fee:to have this back great it's great to have great and he says watch what preposition you use when

38:06Christopher Ecclestone:talking about the actors if they are in it it is a film if they are on it it is a tv show for example Elle Fanning is in Predator Badlands but she is on Margot's Got Money Troubles just say whatever comes naturally and your unconscious mind will tell you if it is a film or a televisual event

38:29Asa Butterfield:that you've blown my mind with that Clay

38:32Molly Windsor:i've never even thought about it's a grammatical through line it's it's gonna help you wow that's

38:38Asa Butterfield:that's insane if that's i'm i i'm not sure if i agree with it but in no that's a butterfield is in unchosen yes it would i say it's on unchosen it feels to me that the sort of

38:51Christopher Ecclestone:grammatical arena we're in here it's about six it's about uh finite things versus ongoing concerns so you would say someone is in a finite thing that takes place partially in the past they are on a thing which is an ongoing concern so that would more likely be a tv show however if it is a tv show that has since finished so we're talking game of thrones you would say kit harrington was in game of thrones you wouldn't say kit harrington is on game of thrones because he's finished any

39:17Asa Butterfield:self-contained series you'd say in it wouldn't you it's only odd i think you would you say about like a chat show yeah he's he's on the jonathan ross show or i think i think we're back to our

39:26Christopher Ecclestone:friend the americanism's here i think it's a very american thing to say oh they're on friends i think that feels to me like american way of referring to something whereas a british person might say yes they are in friends just like that so your generic british british accent yes my little rp british accent yes weird yeah yeah you do say that like yeah yeah you know she's on that show at the she's on that show yeah i would i would generally say in i think across the board yeah yeah but then Perhaps that's just me trying to distance myself from the Americanisms again.

39:55Fra Fee:Oh, no, hold on. Maybe I would say they were on that show. No, I would say that. They were on that show.

40:00Asa Butterfield:A factual show, you'd say they're on that show, or a chat show, as I say. But you wouldn't say it about Jennifer Aniston's On Friends. You wouldn't say that, would you?

40:10Christopher Ecclestone:No. If it was still running, people, certainly Americans, but people might have said, oh, she's On Friends. But now it would be she was in Friends.

40:17Asa Butterfield:Yeah. Well, fascinating.

40:19Christopher Ecclestone:Anyway, you give us much to contemplate.

40:21Fra Fee:Yeah, you have. Can I just give you a number crunch as well on my outrageous claim? Yes, your made-up statistic.

40:28Molly Windsor:Go for it.

40:28Fra Fee:No, it's between 2 % and 10 % of convicted prisoners are innocent. That is the statistic. That is horrifying. Don't you think that's horrifying?

40:40Christopher Ecclestone:That is horrifying. That's a far cry from 60%, but, you know, it's…

40:44Fra Fee:Sorry, I was just getting too excited. You're lashing out. But, do you know what? 70 % are falsely accused and the rate of eyewitness misidentification is 69 %

40:59Christopher Ecclestone:very famous one this week a man who was released from prison because uh he'd been done 17 years wasn't it for rape and it turned out that the there was a dna match of the person he'd been misidentified in the lineup as i understand it and but they actually caught the real person

41:12Fra Fee:yeah i'm loving you so much more every with every sentence you're is he the cover star of the new oh my god is that false confessions 29 guys 29 i still don't get how they how they know though

41:26Asa Butterfield:i mean i don't disagree with it in in theory i'm not supporting the criminal justice system but

41:32Fra Fee:how do you know what they would do because it's an estimate isn't it okay it's an estimate biddy it's based on retrospectively looking at uh people who've been proven innocent and taken and and freed. So if you're looking at percentage-wise how many people in a year are proven to be innocent, then they can make an assumption that if this amount of people have been proven innocent in that year, then there must still be this percentage of people within the prison community.

41:59Asa Butterfield:I believe the word we're looking for is extrapolated. Extrapolate, yes. Extrapolate. It's a bit like the bar viewing figures for TV. They only actually ask about...

42:06Fra Fee:It sort of is. They only ask

42:08Asa Butterfield:about 10 ,000 people what they've watched, but that's extrapolated out to me. So this is the criminal equivalent of Nielsen ratings. This is what you're saying. It's just Barb ratings in this country, but yeah, Nielsen ratings in America. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

42:20Fra Fee:Anyway.

42:22Christopher Ecclestone:Amazing. Right. Okay. Let's see what else we have here. Chris, Chris Penny says, can I say a huge, huge thank you for your weekly efforts and hard work digesting the swathes of TV out there. Now you've got me in my American head. Is it swathes or swathes? I don't know. Swathes. Anyway, swathes. We're going to go with swathes.

42:41Fra Fee:I don't know. Swaths has never even been a word. No, fine.

42:45Molly Windsor:I might have just coined a new word. Steph, 60 % of people say swaths, not swaths. That's a fact.

42:50Christopher Ecclestone:I've been listening for many years and your podcast is the only one to subscribe to. Thank you very much indeed for joining the Cult of Pilots. I've discovered many of my favourite shows purely through listening to your show. Your chemistry, love and piss-taking is something I look forward to every week and it's got me through some tough times. Oh, bless you. I've been devastated by the departure of Terry Beth and partial loss of K, but Steph is yet another excellent addition to the team. Keep up the good work. However, and this isn't a however, however, please, please, please, please, please, can you record a spoiler special for The Pit when season two completes its run in the UK?

43:24Christopher Ecclestone:I love it and cannot stop ranting about it to everyone I know. Possibly in doing so, setting up unrealistically high expectations, the characters, propulsion and drama makes it easily the best show of the year. Also, on your review of The Pit season one, you mentioned that the covid flashback scenes took you out of the show this is aimed at you because of the soft focus used my reading of this proved by soft focus not being used for the establishing shot of robbie donning ppe is that the soft focus is the audience seeing events from robbie's perspective through the haze of ppe keep up the amazing work that's deep

44:01Asa Butterfield:hadn't crossed my mind oh i i saw some i saw someone else mention that yeah there's been a couple of people who pushed back at my um complaint about the flashbacks corridors and soft focus

44:12Fra Fee:i agreed with you boyd i think about that because i felt it took you out took you out of it i think i agreed with you that's a really people are saying you know so what it was depending covid

44:21Asa Butterfield:and you know um yeah so yeah i think i think that's quite possible that that is that is an idea but it still takes me out of the the um the general just it's such a specific way of making that show they make it in such a specific way that that's why i think it's so it's almost like a critique of those moments it's just it just because it's so such a rigid format the show in itself when it kind of veers away slightly from that format it's more noticeable to me so yeah but

44:50Christopher Ecclestone:yeah that's fair but okay but that was interesting and with regards to pit season two yes we absolutely should do a pit spoiler special in fact i should apologize to everyone listening to this podcast because we have had a situation whereby we agreed by popular demand to break these spoiler specials out of the regular Pilot Plus and do them individually. But that, of course, just meant that we never found the time to record them. So we are going to address that balance, starting with this particular episode of the podcast, because Bordy and I are going to talk the capture, because there's a lot to talk about there.

45:19Christopher Ecclestone:And in fact, one of the messages we have in the post bag is about the capture. And we'll start with that. Will Hoyles, this will be from you. So yes, we will talk about that in a short while. and we will in fact put it out as a separate thing even though it will just go on the end of this pilot plus but we'll give you a little break um but before we break off to do that capture spoiler chat let's have one more message from the post bag let us see what we can find here and it is kind of spoiler related this one comes from guy and guy said did stefan boyd finish dtf st louis and if so please could we have a spoiler chat non-spoiler thoughts was it from was promoting it as a dark comedy, the most egregious mis-selling of the show?

46:01Christopher Ecclestone:Is it that people won't watch a show if it is an achingly poignant meditation on love, kindness, friendship, and loneliness? Personally, I think that Stephen Conrad is an incredibly gifted writer with one barrier, namely terrible titles. Anyone looking for a comedy called DTF St. Louis is going to be disappointed, and anyone who might enjoy it will have been put off by the title and it not being very funny much as james was thank you very much uh this is the second time stephen comrade has done this after patriot which would not have appealed to anyone who wanted to watch a show called patriot and it would put off anyone who would have enjoyed a show about a cia asset who wanted to be a folk singer and kept breaching national security in their songs right i i will

46:45Fra Fee:boyd i need to watch the last two episodes of that but if you've watched all of it and what's really frustrating about this is that i think i argued that there was comedy in it and you two both argued that there wasn't and then what was really annoying is we boyd had loads to say about it and we ran out of time in the studio to remember boyd we ran out of time in the studio we had about three minutes and you and boyd actually went oh this is so annoying because i've got so much to say so actually spoiler special and that would be great um i'm well up for that boyd boyd and i are also planning a half man spoiler special aren't we boyd it's

47:16Christopher Ecclestone:It could be half Boyd, half Steph.

47:17Asa Butterfield:Yeah. All I would say about DTF St. Louis, I totally agree about the title. The title is ridiculous. Terrible. Yeah. Terrible. But I haven't finished it yet. But by all accounts, but I've loved, but it gets better. It gets a lot, I think it gets a lot better. I had a lot of criticisms, critiques, criticisms of the first few episodes. But it really kicks in. And you know who is incredible in it, who's always brilliant in everything. But in this, he is so good, is Richard Jenkins. as the cop

47:47Fra Fee:yes I remember you had a big Richard Jenkins and it's like

47:50Asa Butterfield:and he's always been brilliant and he you know he kind of he elevates every single thing he's done ever I think but this is such a brilliant role for him

47:58Fra Fee:but you had a real issue with the pacing in the first episode that I didn't have

48:02Asa Butterfield:do you remember I did yeah I think there were just scenes that took like three times as long as they needed to I would have a long I thought it was no

48:09Fra Fee:deliberate pacing no well we'll get to this

48:12Molly Windsor:there's a fine line between deliberately paced and ponderous

48:15Asa Butterfield:yeah exactly and self-indulgent more to the point yeah but again but you know what it totally you totally get into the vibe of it after a while it is is people are calling it one of the best shows

48:25Christopher Ecclestone:of the year actually 60 of people think it's the best show oh my god i'm never gonna live this down oh my god i just got excited and i pulled i pulled a statistic that isn't real and now you must pay the price i mean don't worry about it donald trump does it all the time

48:43Molly Windsor:it's true it's true if in doubt just say it with confidence it doesn't matter that's how i run this i don't know what i did say it with confidence i said it with confidence i knew it was completely wrong because that would be outrageous and i was like well okay fantastic right uh right as i said

49:03Christopher Ecclestone:we are going to go off and do our capture spoiler chat which will be in the feed directly after this so you'd be have a little break in case you haven't finished like steph in case you haven't finish the capture. Yeah, la la la la la. We're also going to do a bunch of other ones coming up. Paradise, Boydie is desperately going to watch so that we can talk about Paradise. But if he doesn't, if he doesn't, lazy, if he doesn't do it, then Steph and I will talk about it because Steph, diligent Steph, has watched the whole of Paradise. I don't think that's true.

49:25Asa Butterfield:Didn't you say

49:25Fra Fee:you watched season one? No, I finished, remember I'm doing Andor at the same time, I finished season one of Paradise, but I will watch season two of Paradise.

49:34Asa Butterfield:I thought you finished season two. I knew that as well. 60 % of me but literally I have to read a message on the group chat she said specifically I've only watched season one you completely ignored it I know he's always doing that but no

49:50Fra Fee:Half Man definitely DTF St Louis which I'll get into why I don't think it's a bad title but let's not get into that now and I can do that with Boyd and finally I'd just like to say once again before I go that it is not a lake in Unchosen it is a small body of water

50:06Molly Windsor:it's a small bit of rainwater

50:07Christopher Ecclestone:yeah it's fine it's basically a puddle um but yes we're gonna do the caption now paradise is up there pit yes we're gonna do for all mankind probably half man there's a bunch of stuff that we're gonna do if there's anything in particular uh you want us to spoil that and let's be honest that we're actually watching uh then uh then then let us know chuck it in i should mention postbag if you want your stuff read out it is gloriously postbag at pilot tv pod.com the new all-improved email address. Okay, brilliant. On Monday's show, we will be covering Half Man, Richard Gad and Jamie Bell's new show.

50:42Christopher Ecclestone:We will also be doing Prisoner on Sky, a Sky original, and Widow's Bay on the Apple. And we'll be hearing from Richard Gad as well

50:51Asa Butterfield:in the interview I did with him. Will we? Oh, my God, will we? Oh, I didn't know that. You did know that. Don't tell you don't know anything. I didn't know that. And it's in the calendar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:59Fra Fee:When did you interview him?

51:02Asa Butterfield:Did it last week?

51:04Fra Fee:Did you? Yeah. Oh my God, I can't wait to listen to that. Yeah, I bet it was. Yeah, amazing.

51:10Asa Butterfield:He's really interesting, isn't he?

51:12Fra Fee:Is he? Well, you can see up your interview.

51:14Asa Butterfield:Go for it. No, no, no, not me. He is genuinely fascinating.

51:17Fra Fee:Oh, I can imagine. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. 33 and a third percent of us are going to go now, because I do know how percentages work.

51:27Christopher Ecclestone:All right. Goodbye to everyone else. And for those of you who wish to listen to us chat about the Captcha, stick around. Pilot out.