PLUS Wednesday, and Steph vs Foundation

24:45Not, I would argue, you know, from a percentage point of view, I would say less than this does. But again, I think Game of Thrones, the tone of Game of Thrones is quite full on. It's hardcore. It doesn't mess about. I mean, it's funny at times, but the tone of it is very serious and very dark. So it kind of... Oh, I get you. Yeah, it fits in that way. But also, like, in Game of Thrones, I think it did, I think Game of Thrones did get some criticism for the amount of that that's in there. It is taken from the books. I don't know. I guess it just didn't bother me as much in that setting. Maybe part of it was where it's shot.

25:16I mean, I will say there's one scene of sexual violence, and I want to say season four or five, of Game of Thrones, which is horrifying. Like, absolutely horrifying. Are you talking about the Cersei? Do not... No. There is every chance that I'm going to limber up in the next 10 years to watching it. Yeah, Game of Thrones is real. Do you know, it's funny you say that, because we had this conversation because I absolutely love Game of Thrones. I absolutely love it. And I think what you're touching on is I feel like with any of the sexual violence that happened in Game of Thrones, it was well worked within the narrative rather than actually feeling like, oh, it's not that, I don't watch Outlander, so I don't know.

25:52Sexual violence for sexual violence sake. I don't think you ever were like, oh, that's completely out of place here. It all seemed quite seamless. Does that make sense? I think the sexual violence in it was upsetting, but it felt germane to the story and it felt organic to the plot. I will say the sex position maybe didn't, but that's a whole separate conversation. I mean, you can't start critiquing that for God's sake. Now, Outlander was so long ago that I saw it. I can't remember how important it is to the story. I really can't. So, wait a minute. But that's what put me off, is what I'm saying.

26:24Your objection to Outlander or your dislike of it or, you know, not getting along with it was... Why I stopped, yes. Both the sexual violence and the tone. And the tone, yes. Whereas with Game of Thrones, the tone, you know, was... Also, I'd read the books. So I guess I knew the beats from Game of Thrones. You knew what was coming. Yeah, I knew what was coming. I knew what to expect, and you can kind of steal yourself for it a little bit, which is fine. And I do love Game of Thrones for that. But there have been shows where scenes like this have come along, and I'm like, and I'm out. I'm done, I'm finished, I'm tapping out.

26:57Because I don't need this in my life. Like, go away. And I guess that's where I landed with Outlander. I am tempted to go back to it there, because as I say, I really like Blood of My Blood. I really want to watch that. So I do feel maybe I want to get to the original show. But it's like seven seasons. More importantly, your TV twin Anthony has asked you to do something. Two of Anthony. My mate Tony, he says that I should be watching Outlander. You and Tony. And it is Rondie Moore. I've interviewed Rondie Moore about Outlander, which is why I watched most of the first season. Yeah, because we had him on the...

27:21Well, he's going to be disappointed, isn't he? We had him on either this podcast or the Empire podcast. I forget which one. If you are listening, please leave a review. Yeah, sorry, Ron. Right, now for an email about Assassin. Now, Steph, have you watched Assassin? No. Because you will be obsessed with it. The Assassin. Do not lose a definite article. Oh, sorry, yes. The Assassin. Sorry. Yes, it's in my notes. I've just been very informal. The Assassin on Netflix. No, Prime Video. It is. It's on Prime. Apologies. No, I'm deeply in the bear at the moment, okay, so I have no time for anything else.

27:49Okay, all I'm saying is you will love this. Okay. It's got Keely Halls in it, Freddie Highmore. She's a retired assassin. The Assassin. Anyway. Oh, is it a bit Black Doves-y? It's not so much Black Doves-y. Have you seen like The Tourist or Boat Story, the other Williams Brothers type shows? No. I kind of feel like they're a genre to themselves. Okay. Because they, again, we're back to tonality again. They have a very specific tone, which I struggled with initially when I was introduced to their work, and I have since come to embrace. And this is a very Williams Brothers show. Okay. It's a lot of fun.

28:21Comedy and tones. They're comedy dramas, but the drama is really dark sometimes, and so is the comedy sometimes. But then it's occasionally absurd. Like, it's all over the place on the tonal map, but it works. Sorry, I do not like it when there's... I'm assuming she is an assassin. She is, yes. I don't, as you... I've said this before, I don't like serious crime mixed with comedy. That's why... No, it's not like, you know, kind of a clown with a flower squirting water. No, I don't want any hint of it, Kay. I can't be doing with it. But sorry, carry on. This lady's not for convincing. Okay, well, anyway.

28:55Okay, no, just to give you an idea. So, there's like my favourite line. It just destroyed me. there's a bit where there's some discussion over Freddie Highmore's character's parentage like who his father is and he keeps asking and she went oh good god she goes this isn't fucking Mamma Mia I just thought and I genuinely was like that is brilliant like really funny line I'm out I'm out I don't I don't this is why full objection to not specifically Mira Sayal as well we've said before I love Mira Sayal but cosy crime not my bag this is not cosy crime no I'm just saying any type of mixing of those like if you put any level of comedy in something I just don't like it this is interesting because I'm normally the humourless one on this podcast and yet you have usurped my ground yeah I must have been I must have been taking energies from you Steph loves humour I love oh my god I absolutely love humour but if I'm going in like and I'm going in and I'm watching some like a drama a crime drama do you know you take your crime very seriously that's what you're saying as the editor of Crime Monthly she takes her crime very seriously sorry Sorry, Kate, carry on.

30:01You're in the same boat as Michael Hughes, basically. Oh, my. You got in touch to say, I really wanted to like this, and in a way it's kind of fun in a zero jeopardy, Roger Moore, James Bond-like way. Freddie Highmore is delivering the most weak and watery performance as Edward in the same style as Leo Woodall in Prime Target. If I was his mum and I heard him whimper, just tell me what's going on for the 14th time whilst being shot at and running, I would have dispatched him in such a way as to at least give in his face some expression and his voice some volume, and more importantly, to stop his incessant moaning.

30:30I was waiting for Jack Davenport to die of smugness as they danced around the yacht's kitchen exchanging hilarious insults. I'll watch them all, however, to see if they jump across a lake using crocodiles as stepping stones. Well, listen, Michael, I disagree, but it's what I've been watching, so I'm going to save it for the next podcast. But tune in and find out. Or come to King's Place Live. And heckle us. Yeah, and heckle us and, you know, give us some feedback. This is interesting, Steph, because you and I, I feel, have the opposite problem. Because I don't like... In so many ways. In so many ways.

31:04I don't like comedy for comedy's sake because I think it's stupid. It's like comedy. It's like when something's heavy, air quotes, funny, funny. It's like it's trying too hard to be funny. And you like Friends. Well, that is true. Well done, Steph. I'm a contradiction, what can I tell you? But generally speaking... Do you know what he is? An oxymoron. Thank you. But, you know, and Friends is obviously silly sometimes, but very heightened comedy. I don't generally find funny. Whereas what I really enjoy is comedy that comes out of drama. So juxtapazosed? Juxtapazosed with drama. I really enjoy juxtapazosed comedy.

31:37So if comedy is juxtaposed with drama, like if you're watching a drama and something like funny, like in horror movies, right? When you're in a horror movie. Oh, that's my worst. And comedy, because it diffuses the tension, it changes the tension in the room and it's like a release valve and it's great. And I think in drama that works really well as well because it can amplify the drama by just giving you a change of mood. And so I think I really like that. It's why I love the Eddie Murphy comedies from the 80s because they're drama and comedy. Come on. Like, Beverly Hills Cop, right? Okay, that is not drama.

32:10Oh, no, it is. No, it isn't. Genuinely. Oh, my God. Watch it again. It's so fucking violent. It's actually quite funny. He's getting tortured. He's strife. He's being beaten up. Yeah, there was a lot of drugs. But it's very much of its era. you don't really get films like that nowadays where it's actually quite a hard-hitting crime thing but has loads of comedy in it. It's like those two genres have been forcibly separated in the years since. So now action comedies are just fucking stupid. But don't you think Eddie Murphy kind of lifts himself out of that role? So actually, it's an Eddie Murphy film rather than Beverly Hills Cop.

32:45Much like, you know, when you see a Will Ferrell film, so there's a Will Ferrell film, you know, actually, he's not even being the character, he's just being Will Ferrell. So you don't almost think, oh this is a drama or this is a comedy but it's a Will Ferrell film yeah and I think Eddie Murphy has those same attributes yeah I agree with you I think there's some truth to that I think there's different examples so Beverly Hills Cop 1 for me crime drama loads of comedy Cop 2 veering more towards comedy Cop 3 is just a fucking comedy you know what's a bit like that now like Bad Boys the Bad Boys has gone like that so Bad Boys film 1 great film like great crime drama then they just start the jokes the jokes are coming too much and now I can't watch it.

33:24Yes and no. I don't think in the same way that Beverly Hills Cop is because I think they've always had quite a lot of comedy in them. And if you look at the most recent sort of bad boys films, which I don't love, they're still quite heavy on the, you know, the crime, the drama. They haven't gone into full Owen Wilson-esque comedy drama territory. James, have you noticed my hypocrisy? Which bit of hypocrisy? You need to be more specific. How I'm like letting the film chat play out. Oh, that's right, because it's Steph. Yeah, because it's Steph. She's not jumping in and just shutting this shit down.

33:52That's true. My love, my love. But yeah, but so like you look at something like 48 Hours, that's very dark and very dramatic, but really funny. Because I think it's like, it's almost like when you get like a straight up crime script and then someone casts Eddie Murphy and he just brings the funny. Yeah, I mean, that's a point as well. I suppose when you're casting someone like Eddie Murphy, you know that you're not going to get a pure dramatic performance because it is Eddie Murphy and he just can't fail but to deliver. that comedic edge. Yeah. Yeah. He's a funny guy. We have to stop now because I'm looking at Kane and I don't want to You're on borrowed time.

34:31Steph, there is such a thing as taking liberties. You're taking a piss. Sorry, babes. Right. Now for a message from Robin in Sweden. Yes, international listener. Oh. He says, Hi, Pod. Regarding the ongoing discussion about what is and isn't a film. Oh, I love this. I think you're not arguing about what you think you're arguing about. Oh, okay. You think you're arguing about what a film is. I think you are arguing about what the pilot TV podcast really is about, i.e. what types of entertainment are eligible to be discussed on the pod. Sweden. Thank you. The voice of reason. See, first IKEA, now this.

35:06James thinks, and I agree by the way, that it's about premium serialised scripted TV shows and more or less only that. While Kay and Boyd think it can also be at least a little bit about the other types of TV entertainment like reality shows and even panel shows and sports or indeed one hour and 45-minute-long one-off TV dramas. Now, what I would say, Robin, is I would just like to say, yes, I occasionally mention, you know, reality shows, for example. Or, you know, strictly I talk about. In what you've been watching, which is an amnesty zone. It is a safe space. That's what I wanted to highlight, because I don't want people thinking I'm just, you know, breaking the rules.

35:41It's, you know, you're a rule breaker. Although, I will say, I took a week off once, and there have you Dating Naked UK. I'm just going to put that out there. Were you not here for that? I was not here for that. but that is a TV show not really a scripted prestige drama though is it I mean there may have been prestige drama in it I cannot speak to it do you know what his real annoyance is about I missed the nudity he wasn't here to refuse I missed the nudity really that was my that was my concern anyway so that's what Robin says he says love the pod plus I'm a plus subscriber and a regular listener and they are both the highlights of my week so that's a good point from Robin I have a question have you watched K-pop Demon Hunters on Netflix no so we reviewed it on the Empire podcast and I wasn't able to get to it in time so I still haven't seen it.

36:20But yes, it's become quite the phenomenon. I tell you, do you know how many times I've watched it? Tell me. I've watched it 11 times. That's a lot. What? That's an illness. No, it's brilliant. All the songs in it are absolute bangers. Gracie loves it. It's such a great film. It's a great plot. 11 times. It's an animated film. I think you should watch it. The girls would love it. It's an animated... It's an animated... It's an animated extended TV experience. Also, what I want to pick up is the fact that James said, just very very like quickly passed away oh I didn't get to it in time so when I occasionally miss something and I say oh I missed it and then I self-flagellate and he's like oh and he makes me feel bad on the pod I'm just going to say I didn't get to it in time I didn't get to it in time absolute hypocrite but I was going to ask you about K-pop Demon Hunters because I was like is K-pop Demon Hunters a film?

37:09Is it? Okay alright well that's that answered now Rachel meanwhile says I don't really understand the continued debate of what's a film or not but I thought I'd ask chat GBT and share the summary with you. Hope it helps. Ha ha ha. Anyway, so... Why didn't we just do that in the first place? That would have been... Yeah, anyway, it's quite long to read out so I'm just going to forward it to you guys but essentially... Just tell us who's right. That's really the important thing. Oh, God. I mean, it's... So, it says, good question, a feature-length single episode that airs on TV sits in a grey area.

37:42That's what K-pop Damon Hunters is. But here's how it's... It's a film. It's literally a film. No, it wasn't in cinemas. we had this conversation before it wasn't in cinemas this fundamentally cannot be where we draw the line a film is not just something that lives in cinema because like so many films the majority of films do not go into cinema because they go straight to streaming yes but then we get onto the made for TV films that's right TV movies we're called TV movies not TV one of dramatic events I'm leaving oh my god can you imagine this is how the episode ends do you remember when you went to Blockbuster did you go up and say oh can I get this TV show and then that's a film oh it wasn't in cinema I think you're fine.

38:18Wow, okay. Wow. Wow, what a difference. Right, anyway. Let's do a video. I'm going to just skip over this, but basically, yes, she sent a detail list which goes on to say, you know, if it's part of a series, it's still considered television, just a special episode, TV movie or feature length. I mean, it goes into a lot of detail. Okay, I've got a plan. Go on, okay. We're doing the live show on Friday. We're going to have a vote in the room as to what a fucking film is. And we will, all of us, agree to abide by the majority vote. Oh, okay, fine. Just so you let it be the end of this. So if they, as a room, vote that one-off TV event dramas are TV shows, a green light going forward.

38:58Fine. Except the feature length and you'll hate them. And if it's split, then we just let Russell decide. Then Russell could decide. Yes, okay. Right, that's it. Problem solved. That is a great idea. And we're putting an end to this. Okay. And talking of putting an end to something, let me now move to the last section of the postbag, which is dedicated to an area of Surrey, Steph. Oh, God. Yes. Now, there's an area, and I'm going to spell it, G-U-I-L-D-F-O-R-D. Yeah. I won't go into the story. Are we not saying? Are we not allowed to say? No, not for now. It's like Voldemort. If you say it, it'll appear.

39:33Guildford? Yes, exactly. Right. Anyway, so it's a long story. I brought it up because I got on the wrong train. Blah, blah, blah. Cut to, didn't see. You want to skip that bit, don't you? Yeah. I got on a train to go to Guildford to watch a film. I got on the wrong train and was in Basingstoke. That's all you need to know. Crucially, I think we can all agree that that particular place, that case spelled out, is not pronounced Basingstoke. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, so James then proceeded to tell me and the listeners that it's called Guildford. Oh, James. I know. And Boyd and I were like, no, no, that's not how you say it.

40:05It's a silent D. To be fair, he got into my head. I was supposed to know this. Yeah. But even when I told him last week that we had listeners saying, oh, no, it's not, he goes, they're wrong, right? People who were born there are wrong. Anyway, so we've had a lot of listeners get in touch. So Rachel got in touch. He said, as a Guildford native, although currently residing in the wilds of Hertfordshire. It's Hertfordshire. I come back. How have you got to this age without having heard someone else say Guildford? Okay. And crucially, having heard someone say Guildford. I'm going to explain this to you.

40:38So I had never been to said place, not really a Surrey native or a Surrey frequenter. In fact, I'm from North London, so anything south of the river was like hereby dragons. So I never went there. And then an ex-girlfriend of mine had friends who lived down there, so we'd end up going down there a reasonable amount. And she introduced me not just to the place, but to the name of the place, and she called it Guildford, which I did not question. Do you know why? Because there's a fucking D in the middle of the word, so it never occurred to me this wasn't the case. So when you guys said the D was silent, that is the first I had ever heard.

41:09Yes, but James, then we've talked about Warwick not being Warwick, haven't we? True. No, but what I'm saying is, I'm basically blaming someone else. I'm saying it was her fault. Okay, fine, yeah, of course. Anyway, so she, Rachel continues, says, I can back Ken Boyd that the D in Guildford is indeed silent. I would usually be Team Dyer, brackets, there's no such thing as too many West Wing comments, but the facts are facts, right? Geoffrey Card says, I was raised in Guildford County, North Carolina in the US. Oh my God. Yes. Come on, how's it pronounced in America? And we pronounce it without the D.

41:36Oh, my God. Because we also spell it without the D. What? Oh, okay, so that's not the same. That is not the same, is it? I suspect that. It was named by a Brit who only ever heard it and said it out loud. That's like, we pronounce it without the D that's not there. Nobody's giving me a reason why he thinks that is. He thinks it was named by a Brit who just didn't pronounce it. Oh, sorry, apology. That could be the case. Apologia. Oh, my God, right. So then Tom... To be fair, the Americans pronounce Notre Dame Notre Dame. so they're probably not the ones to listen to. I love Americans, right? I've got a lot of very good friends in America.

42:09But when I said to my best American friend, Nicole, how can you say Caribbean but also say the film is called Pirates of the Caribbean? How can you reconcile those two things? Do they not call it Pirates of the Caribbean? No, they say Pirates of the Caribbean but they say Caribbean, right? So I was like, American listeners get into it. Let us know if that's true. Yeah, do you know what? Please do. I need to know this. It's true. They say, they say, we're going to the Caribbean. And then they say, so if you were going, say, right, we're going to the Caribbean and on the way we're going to watch Pirates of the Caribbean.

42:45That's what they'd say. Would they really? Yes. Okay, I believe you. You're scaring me now. Have you ever heard an American say Pirates of the Caribbean? I mean, it must have been. There'd been like fucking seven films. Yes. So, yeah. Get in touch, listeners. Let us know. American, American friends. Yeah. Who I love. I'm just saying that is what, you know, that's what happens. Okay. Anyway, so Tom, so basically he got in touch last week to say he had a similar experience to me where he was trying to go to Guildford, ended up in Basingstoke, right? And he was trying to meet his girlfriend and then he had to like...

43:13Basingstoke is silent in Guildford. He stood her up or whatever and it was like awkward. Anyway, he got back in touch and said, follow up to this, I played last week's Plus episode to my Guildford-born and bred girlfriend Hannah and one, tell James from her that you definitely don't pronounce the D in Guildford. to, thanks to Boyd, she now thinks I made up the wrong train to Basingstoke story. Because you know Boyd was saying, did he actually do that? Hannah, he didn't. Yeah, he didn't make up that story. Didn't he? Trust Tom. Don't. Trust Tom. I believe you, Tom. Do not get between Tom and Hannah.

43:44Seems like an alibi. So, please, how do you pronounce it? Huh? How do you pronounce it? Apparently, it is Gilford. Oh my God. It's not someone's name. First name Gil, last name Ford. Guilford. The name's Ford. Just say it like a normal human being. You're such an ass. Guilford. Guilford. So you're saying, so not only is the D silent, the O is also silent. Oh, wow. You are beyond help. You are beyond geographical help. I've got two last messages about it, right? One's from Alexis, and in her subject heading, I mean, the message was hilarious, but it's too long to read, but the subject heading was, Three Guilfords outside Ebbing, Missouri.

44:26So you'll get how funny this email was, right? Anyway, she also had a bad experience, which involved trains. And she was commuting from Guildford to Waterloo for a live event. And it involved various mishaps, including turning up at the wrong location. And James, I want to urge you to concentrate and not send any more emails. Because this is specific to you. Okay, I'm not sending an email. I was writing a note, but carry on. Sure, sure. I hope it started with Guildford. No, I thought of a gag for the live show, but carry on. Oh my God. this is the narcissism the level that you're not listening to the emails I couldn't listen to you because I was just thinking of how funny I could be next Friday oh my god this is like this is such exposure of him being a monster I can't bear it right anyway James listen she got on a wrong train from Guilford he's embarrassed yeah he's embarrassed himself he's still laughing at his own joke yeah that's the thing he's not even laughing at us catching him out he's laughing at his own gag listen yeah wear a gag and listen to this she left Guilford to go to Allsalu had various mishaps, like getting on wrong trains, blah, blah, blah, or, you know, redirected.

45:32And she wound up at the wrong destination. She was going to a live event, right? Do you know where she ended up? She ended up in King's Place, Chiswick, instead of King's Place, London, on the way to Pilot 200. Oh, like 2000, bloody hell. Also, crucially, James, I don't know if you know this, it's Chiswick, not Chiswick. Thank you. Just want to make sure, and anything else you need to know. Anyway, so she basically, she would have, I would have turned back, right? I would have been so angry at my getting stuff wrong or the trains effing up, blah, blah, blah. But she still made it to the live event, even though she was watching it unfold on Twitter.

46:05And she said, I quote, I still managed to see Terry's bellend. I don't know what, Terry's bellend? James's quiz about James. Yes. And the wrong version of Gangs of London. I'm even in the official photo on the Empire website, apparently being punched in the face by Boyd in a perfect visual metaphor for the day. So Alexa, she can't come this time. unfortunately. But yes, thank you for still schlepping in even though the trains and everything let you down. But crucially, thanks for telling us that it is Guildford that rhymes with Pilchard. Pilchard? Oh God, no. Guildford does not rhyme with Pilchard.

46:40I know. She did various rhyming things. I just chose Pilchard. I see. And finally, I end the postbag with a message from Carmen who says, my other half pronounces Greenwich in that weird way James is done. Greenwich. Yes. Yeah, it is a thing. It's upsetting, but it is a thing. Yeah, but It's not right, though. That's the thing. It can be a thing, but it doesn't have to mean that it's right. How do you pronounce Greenwich? Some people pronounce it Greenwich, and I seem to recall... How do you pronounce it? Greenwich. Oh, fine. I pronounce it, you know, correctly, in this particular instance at least.

47:08But I have been on a train where it has literally said, it's announced it as Greenwich, and that fucking threw me completely. Yeah, but that's like a computer-automated voice saying Greenwich. No, it's true. Welcome to Greenwich. But this is why people, I suspect, now think it's pronounced Greenwich. It's not pronounced Greenwich. The same person, the same ex-girlfriend of mine, who said it was Guildford, used to call it Greenwich. God, I think you can name it. Yeah, who is this one? She's an absolute idiot. She had a lot of issues. You've been least of all. I mean, that's fair. And so, Endith, the postbag.

47:43Well, that was delightful. Yeah, it was just a fun postbag this week. But, listeners, if you have sent a message, don't get cross. They will get answered. I'm going to do a massive binge of the question-related ones, but I just wanted to have a bit of fun because Steph was here. The post bag address, if you've missed it, and it is on our Instagram bio, is pilottv at empiremagazine.com. Now, Kay is the postmistress and even though we're going to be doing a live Q &A on the live show on Friday, Kay is going to be taking some overseas listener questions in the room. So if you have questions for us on the live show, send them over to Kay, obviously before Friday.

48:15And hopefully she'll put them up. Yeah, so this comes out on Thursday. We need you to really be snappy with our email address, send loads across. American listeners, get in touch about the Caribbean. Yes, please do. Steph won't be there, but we'll feed back to her. We will. I will need to be fed back about that. In fact, I'd like to find out where all our international listeners are. Maybe I'll get a map. Maybe you will. I mean, I doubt it because we've got 48 hours. Dream big. Dream big. This has been a really fun show. I'm not saying that's because Brody's not here. I'm simply saying it's been a very fun show.

48:42Wow. But the best part of this show, Kay, is it's not over yet because we have a surprise final section for you here. It is a section I like to call Steph versus Foundation. Oh, God. Because you'll recall last time Steph was on, we may have mentioned science fiction. We may have mentioned the glorious Foundation on Apple TV +, your favourite show, okay? And Steph, professional that she is, hard-working, studious person that she is. So, you know what? I'm going to watch all of Foundation. I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch that first episode feature length and I'm going to make it all the way to the end and I'm going to feed back on what I thought of it.

49:16So, what's going to happen here is... Wait, wait, wait. What's going to happen here is, right, for a second, I just need you to button it because I just need to make something very clear to Stephanie, right? What he's doing here, right? He's trying to drive a wedge between us. Do you know what? I was going to say for that, nothing, nothing, nothing will get in the way of my love for you, ever. You know that. But crucially, no, I just need to point out two things. I, A, did watch it. I did do my homework. You did. I did finish it. You lied. I did finish it. She finished it, James. I know she didn't because it was feature length and you literally told me you gave up because you couldn't face the best stuff.

49:46James, James, are you sure? James, before we put you on a train to Guildford, okay? Or cheers, Wig. Oh, well, maybe I didn't then. If I'd said I didn't. But that's fine. I didn't blame you. Yes, because I still watched it, the majority of it. And can I just say one thing, Steph? Of course you can, my darling. The reason why this is irritating me about the foundation thing is I gave it a good go, right? It was impenetrable, right? The world building, brilliant, but I couldn't understand it. So I was furious then that it was longer than it needed to be. But also, James, right, in his infinite wisdom, perverse infinite wisdom was trying to get me to review the second series which I refuse to do on the basis that it's pointless me just going oh I don't like it then he wanted me to get to watch the trailer because he thought in his message it'll be really funny if you do the summary and I just needed him to know in this context no means no James why are you being such a massive shit to me I mean I don't know what to tell you but anyway Kay it's not me that's going to be a massive shit to you it's death because the nature of this segment is Steph is now going to convince you to love foundation.

50:55That is her role here. But, but, and this is true. So me and Steph have not discussed this. I do not know what she thought. You're being very confident there. Yeah, I know. So one or two things is going to happen. It's unlike you. Either she's going to be like, it's amazing, it's brilliant, okay, you should give her another chance and you'll listen to her because you respect Steph, unlike me. Or, or, equally likely, she's going to be like, what the fuck was this? Kay, you dodged a bullet there, don't have a look at it. and I will abide by Steph's decision either way. Oh, really? Not for me. I'm going to watch it regardless.

51:22But if Steph says, absolutely not, I will never, ever ask you to watch Foundation again. Oh, my God. Okay. That is my promise to you here today. Okay, no pressure, Steph. Okay, right. So what I will start by saying is, yes, I said, I'll watch this. And crucially, I didn't even ask you to. No, you didn't ask me to. I said to you... Steph, you swat. No, no. She's turned. She's turned. Because we had a really interesting chat at the end And what my question was to you was, which is the most extreme crap that you like? What's this weirdy shit you watch? Because I want to just see. So that's where it came from.

51:56You were being open-minded. I was being open-minded because we were talking about you, Rib, and we were talking about how, like, you know, we were having a Whovian discussion, and I didn't watch Doctor Who, and I was saying, oh, I find it difficult. Do people want to hear what you think about things that you don't watch and stuff like that? Anyway, I go onto my Apple TV, right, sitting in my house, and I'm going to watch this. Go on to Apple TV. My husband has watched... What? Two seasons of Foundation. Oh, Liam. He finished it. I called him. I said, I said, you've been cheating on me with some kind of science fiction bitch.

52:33What is going on? Who are you? And he loves it. And he has watched two seasons of Foundation, right? And there's a third season. Your husband's great. If I'd been invited to your wedding, he and I would have gone brilliantly. Awkward. It's all right. Okay, you were matron of honour. Anyway, right. True fact. So I was like, okay. And then half of me thought, okay, how terrible can this be? Because when I went on my Apple News, it was number one. I thought, and I text you to that effect. You did. I said, how shit can this be? It's number one. It can't be that bad. Already, I'm enjoying this more than the episode I watched, by the way, just to let you know.

53:09So then I'm like, right, I'm going to watch it. Okay, so I sit down, right. I started watching the first five minutes and then I actually had a little bit of a telephone call with my good mucka K over there and I was like, can't talk to you now because I've got to watch Foundation, right? Yeah. Can you imagine my shock? I actually stopped still in the high street that I was walking. I was like, what do you mean you're watching Foundation? So then I explained. Anyway, so this is what I understood from this show. Okay. Okay. I will just say, one of my pet hates about science fiction things. Now, I love science fiction.

53:41I love Star Wars. I'm a huge Star Wars fan. I'm a huge Marvel fan. I love all of that kind of thing. So it's not that I'm absolutely against it. Dystopian things I fucking hate as I've documented. I don't like things like that. But I, you know, I do like a lot of science fiction. But one thing that really aggravates me about science fiction is when they mix multiple accents, regional accents in, okay? It's a very specific complaint. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it really annoys me when you get like a very, like upper crust English accent and then there's someone Northern, love Northern people, and then there's someone with a really, really horrendous American.

54:17Because what I heard was you don't like Northern. No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is like you get a regional accent, then you get a really, really thick American accent. Like they're from a... You're asking for consistency. Right. That's what I don't like, okay? So first off, this had inconsistency with accents, which was a real sticking point for me. However, so I understood, right? I started watching the first 10 minutes and I thought, right, I need some notes while I watch this because I don't understand what the fuck is going on. That is my point. That is my point. So what I got from it is, okay, it looked very Star Wars-y at the beginning.

54:47I was like, this is fine. This is fine. And then a girl wins a global intergalactic maths competition. It's true. This is my understanding of it, right? So I'm going to give this to people who haven't watched it and might want to know what this is about, right? She wins a global intergalactic maths competition, a bit like sending in a crossword, right? and set by this guy who's like this amazing mathematician but this mathematician is saying that this world this planet that he lives on is going to end he's made these predictions and maths is never wrong right she's solved this maths problem so as her prize she doesn't get 100 pounds she gets to go and live on this planet and serve under this mathematician right and she goes to meet him and then he's like I've got some bad news right but it's okay because at that point Alfred Enoch comes in okay who I love as an actor and I was like things are looking up Alfred Enoch's great but then he comes on he's British he comes on with his big American accent I'm like no Alfred you're a Shondaland fave I loved you in How to Get Away with Murder this is not how I want my Alfred Enoch but it's fine I still go with it and they're like bad news you're going to get arrested because are you giving spoilers?

56:06Well Foundation One it's fine I mean, if you're into it. This is the first episode. I think it's fine. It's fine, okay? Like, you're going to get arrested because, like, you're really good. What I could essentially get, you're really good at maths and you could prove that the theory that the world is going to end is also true, right? So you could, like, back up this guy's theory and they want to get rid of this guy. And in this world, there's this, like, three emperors, which is actually just one person who's clothed himself into different ages. That's the threefold face of empire, okay? Right, okay.

56:36So, right. And I was like, it was the same person, but in the middle person. Like, so it's the same person, but they're just clones because they like, it's absolutely wild, right? And they just seem to be able to evaporate people. And they just don't want to believe that the world is going to end. And they couldn't quite get to the crux of what their beef was. I mean, he's just saying that the world's going to end. Like, you probably need to do something about it. And they're like, no, we absolutely refuse to believe this. And we're going to like get rid of people and we're going to get rid of you.

57:02So then these guys get arrested and there's a trial. And she's like, actually, he's kind of right. and then some kind of like intergalactic terrorist blows up a big portion of the ship and kills what they're saying is 100 million people. Truth. And I was like, this is how you know I watched this. And I was like, why would they do, why there was no backstory to why he, I didn't even know why he was doing that. And then by the end of it, they're like, okay, I think this guy's right. And that's how they get to build this new world, the foundation in this new place. Yes, Terminus. Terminus, okay. And I was like, what the fuck?

57:46Like, why? I just like, there's so many, like there's kind of like this, like, you know, gladiatorial element to it with the three like emperors, right? And then there's this like real kind of Star Wars-y spaceship-y bit. and then there's this Star Trek element to it. I was like, it looks like all of these, it's just like a mishmash of all these shows, right? And I said to Liam, I was like, do you, like, do you, what? He was like, and you know what he said, exact words where he's like, Steph, once you're in, you're really in. That's what he said to me. And when he said that, I understood it, right?

58:25And I tell you why I understood it, because I thought, if you have gone through the fucking effort watching one of these shows, right? Something in your brain must go, I have got to find out what the bloody hell is going on, right? So it's like one of those jigsaws, which is round and you're like, I don't know why they did this, but I've got to try and fucking put this thing together, right? That's what this show was like, okay? I was like, so now I was like, I know that they did start to build that thing with the two triangles, which is termed that's fine. And so I know that happened. And now I suppose it's just like, how did that happen?

59:08And what is the jeopardy here? You know, like, I just, it was so much. It was like being punched in the face by Star Wars, Star Trek, aliens, like, like, gladiator. It was just so much, James. It was a lot. It is a lot. However, what I would say is, if you have a lot of time on your hands, which I know my husband definitely does at the end of the day, this is the show for you because you have to watch every second of it to try and gain some understanding. And you also have to have your laptop open with the Wikipedia page so that you know what the fuck is going on. Right. That said, okay, were there some interesting characters in it?

59:55absolutely there were some interesting characters okay um i i what i can say james is i totally get why you like it right take that whatever way you want okay i get why you like it there's just consistency and coherency are very important to me in a lot of ways and i felt like it didn't you know like what I felt a lot was it felt like the actors were having very independent experiences okay so why would we be saying something related to how they felt and then someone else would be talking about something and it just didn't seem like they were related to the conversation that they should be having so like Alfred Enoch would say something and he'd be like they say will you be back i'll be back it'll be like will i be back in this time that's not for me to say it was all very it was all very if if if star wars how many millions of pounds did they pay on this had like an instagram quote section they could like everything in this show would be like instagram quote do you know what i mean it's it's it's it was okay impenetrable yes watchable mildly interesting yes understandable no and would you be a return customer I'm time poor so but when Liam who is presumably firing up season 3 as we speak yes will you be cosying up next to him to watch it alongside him I try not to spend a lot of time with him so so probably probably not which in itself is a good foundation for a people life exactly that is true But I will give you this.

1:01:45I can understand why it is incredibly entertaining to a lot of people who have a lot of time.

1:01:55Do you know what? That might be the perfect review of Foundation. I'm done. That's it. I don't feel we can ever improve upon that. That for now, that is where the bar is set. That is now the official Pilot TV review of Foundation. I think we should have that laminated, as Ross would say. That was wonderful. Thank you, Stan. And so what is the conclusion? Crucially, we need the recommendation. Now, should Kay be, I don't want to say forced, encouraged to watch any future episodes of Foundation when we review them on this podcast? Her fate is in your hands. You are in many ways Brother Steph. You are Brother Dawn.

1:02:29You are the threefold face of Pilot. Judgment, please. I think that Kay's immense talent and skills are better served elsewhere. Yes, Steph. Gosh, what a relief. That's my honest opinion. Kate, you now have an official full pass, a get-out-of-foundation free card. White House turkey feels when it's been reprieved. Yeah, that's it. You are now absolved of any obligation to watch Foundation from here until the end of time. Woo-hoo! Wheel of Time. Wheel of Time's a whole other thing. I may well make you watch that. Oh, yeah, give me more. Give me more. Yeah, I like it. I like your entertaining summaries.

1:03:08Yeah, next it'll be Steph versus the Wheel of Time. Fine, I'm prepared to take it on. Good luck to you, Steph. What a load of trollocks that will be. I can't wait. Steph, it has as ever been a delight to have you here. Thank you. We will be back on, frankly, Friday night at King's Place in London for the live show. It's going to be very, very exciting. Frankly, you already should have your tickets. If not, then don't ever speak to me again. But we're looking forward to seeing you. And that show will be up as a podcast on Monday. That is London, not Chiswick. It is London, not Chiswick. Cheerswick, King's Place is a completely different King's Place and if there's one in Guildford then you don't have to go that one either so King's Place, London, be there, see us Steph, are you going to come?

1:03:50You haven't invited me Shit, a lot like your wedding really, isn't it? Oh wow Never mind, eh? Okay, that's it, we're done See you on Friday night for more of this fun Pilot out

1:04:08you