Possession, Benidorm Is Murder, and Lioness. With guest Ricky Gervais

27:56So it's slightly skewed by that. I was at the Cannes Film Festival coming in from Richard and Judy. Oh, my God. What? Who are you? You're ridiculous. Now I didn't know this. I went to the Cannes Film Festival for a week. Yeah. And I did a file daily reports for Richard and Judy. What is your life? I did Harrison Ford. Really? Yeah. Shook Woody Allen's hand, et cetera. Anyway. But Punch Drunk Love is an absolute masterpiece. And Paul Thomas Anderson is a genius, obviously, and I love Magnolia and I love Boogie Nights, blah, blah, blah. There will be blood. But I love Punch Drunk Love. It's a 90-minute joy.

28:35Then there's Mad Max Fury Road, which could have been higher, but that is by far the greatest action, sci-fi, epic adventure ever. Then I've got… Number eight. Number eight, Dress to Kill, which is a Brian De Palma serial killer, slasher horror film. it probably should be higher actually because it's one of the again one of the most incredible viewing experiences I saw that in a cinema in America in Miami when I was on holiday with my dad my dad took me on holiday yeah my late father but it's it's genius Midnight Run and number seven Robert De Niro Charles Grodin it's an out and out brilliantly rollicking adventure comedy it's hilarious that's the film I turn to you know but anytime for some comfort, you know.

29:24I don't know. Psycho is next. Number six. Alfred Hitchcock's unbelievably groundbreaking masterpiece. Norman Bates, et cetera. Fantastic. Don't need to explain much more about that. Seven. There's a lot of serial killers in this list as well. At number five, seven. Confusing. Yeah. At number five, seven, David Fincher's serial killer masterpiece that, again, I watch probably twice a year, every year, since it came out. one of the most influential films ever. Then there's Apocalypse Now. And number four. What number is that? Number four, yeah. I mean, what else needs to be said? Francis Ford Coppola's Vietnam War masterpiece.

30:02I keep using the word masterpiece here. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Third Kind at number three. Yeah. Well timed. Steven Spielberg, well timed, yeah. I've kind of like only done one film for directors. I haven't done more than one film. but this probably would be the 10 this would be the 10 that even if I doubled up even if I didn't have that rule I still probably would have chosen one per director but for me Steven Spielberg's real incredibly effective joyously uplifting film is Toast Encounters of the Third Kind Jaws is the one that probably most people would pick you're laughing at the fact that I'm still droning on number two is 2001 A Space Odyssey so two science fiction classics at two and three there.

30:50James will be happy. I mean, he won't be happy about this segment, but he'll be happy that you can... He won't be happy about this segment. I have never discussed 2001 with him. I've got a same thing. No, but sci-fi, he'll be happy. You're repping. Yeah, I am repping sci-fi. I don't think... But I think he likes, like, you know, like hard sci-fi, like, I don't know, the expanse. Yeah. I don't know if he has the good taste to acknowledge 2001 and Casing Counties. I'm so happy he's on holiday and we don't get his, you know, rebuttal. And number one, Kay. Go on. Manhattan. Woo-hoo! Woody Allen. Yes.

31:20Of course it's going to be a Woody Allen. I know there are issues, but just purely on. There are many issues about this film, but it's the most beautifully made, stunning black and white cinematography, Kay. The opening alone, with George Gershwin music and a montage of New York, is one of the greatest sequences of all time. And I love Manhattan. I unashamedly am picking Manhattan, even though there are issues. Boy, bravo! Thanks! Bravo for nailing your colours to the mast and finally coming up with this list that now we can always reference and refer to. In fact, someone needs to put it somewhere.

31:53We need it written down. All I'd say is it's not going to stop. The only problem is right with this list of doing a top 10. For Gary. For Gary. Thanks, Gary, for asking. Is that there are still films that are going to be mentioned and come up in conversation during this podcast, and they'll be outside the top 10. So I'll still say one of my favourite films. I consider any in the top 100 to be one of my favourite films. Oh, my God. Don't over those parameters. Okay, all right. Well, at least now we have your definitive top 10. Thank you for asking me to do that. And now, you know what it's time for now, Kay?

32:24Oh, news? No. What? It's the interview. We've got a guest. Of course, I forgot. Bring him on. You may know him from The Office, Extras, Derek, Afterlife, Life's Too Short. and now he has given us the joy of, although it's heavily embargoed to review, Alley Cats, which is a fully animated six-part comedy about a bunch of cats that gather in a kind of burnt-out basement of a building and they sit there and chew the fat and watch telly and just have a lovely time. We discussed all things Alley Cats and more in this lovely interview, Take It Away, Ricky Gervais. ricka gervais welcome to the pilot tv podcast welcome back to the pilot tv podcast how are you good yeah feeling all right considering yeah considering my age

33:2164 you know 65 thanks for five sorry saving a year off it or you know it all helps yeah yeah yeah um and you've got a big new show to talk about alley cats yeah before we get into the creation of it there's one thing i have to ask you about about about it having watched it um because it's it thrilled me so much this sequence can you guess the sequence there's a sequence involving music involving one of the greatest songs of all time yeah i know i know it's the first thing i thought of it's the first scene i thought of to show the the style and uh sort of mood of this piece and to sort of try and not humanise the cats but I wanted people to know these cats sort of had feelings and I assume you're talking about There is a Light by the Smith sequence Absolutely, yes I love that, I love what comes before it and what it leads to as well, it's not It's great doing 15-minute stories.

34:28They're all like mini films, so you can really pack it in. And because the way we made it as well, unlike most animations, I've done loads of animations. I've done like a dozen or so, films and series. And you're always alone in a booth with a director down the line going, OK, just say that. OK, here it comes down. One, two, three. And just say the line. sometimes you get to ad lib, but it's because, you know, the way they make animation, they're so expensive. They're written, they're storyboarded, then they're cast, and then you have to make it just right for the studio. There's 15 execs. We did this like a podcast.

35:11I cast before I wrote it, and then we were all in the same room and we were mucking around. We had, I'd say, an hour per episode to cut down to the best 15 minutes, which is a nightmare it's it's a luxury but it's a nightmare because you know there isn't just one story in there um so what what you find out is that as fun as it is doing all the ad livens and it's mental we kept pushing it i kept stopping going can we do this can we say this which is very exciting for me for me to question myself is always an exciting moment um uh but um what you realise is in the cold light of day, follow the screenplay.

35:57You follow the screenplay and it's just ten times better than you imagined it because it's so dense and fast and natural. So was the Smith's There is the Light, was that in the script? Did you have that right? The other thing of course is because this takes so long I had to get permission otherwise that sequence is probably 50 grand and then they say no we don't be using that thing so obviously we asked and then they said oh you know you have to write a letter to Mr Morrissey and Mr Mar and they both said yes which was great which was very exciting for me I'm a huge Smiths fan you know that I've been a Smiths fan for nearly 40 years whatever and that probably is not only their greatest song, but one of the greatest pop songs of all time.

36:57Yeah, 100%. It's a masterpiece of a song. And the fact that you had... I'm effectively saying you got Morrissey and Ma back together again. Yeah, you can say that if you want. Yeah, that's Unite in approving use of their song for AliCats, so, you know. But it just works so well. It just works so well. the lyrics we could get you know double decker bus 10 sun truck they could be applied to cats cats do have to worry about being run over by more than more than people yeah exactly um and that's one of the themes as well that there's danger everywhere and life is short for a cat and life is tough and they've got to make the most of it that's one of the themes i'd say along with it's a little bit orwellian in the sense that you know uh two legs bad four legs good the threat is humanity, I guess.

37:49Along with everything else, they have to worry about starving, being hit by a car. But yeah, it's so that's such a joyous that's such a joyous song. It's such a joyous, positive song about dying in someone you love. I'd love to I really want to be a fly on the wall where Morrissey watches it. Well, we had to show them the context. Obviously, they couldn't see the finished pictures, but they had to know the context. It was, you know, it was me. It was adult animation. So, yeah, I mean, it could have been, I mean, yeah, I don't know what we'd have done if they would have said no. But, you know, everyone said yes.

38:35You know, once again, I've used the lovely Netflix animation budget to put in some of my favourite songs and artists of the last 60 years. Yeah. Coldplay as well. And Cat Stevens. You always have Cat Stevens. You're very loyal. Yeah, no. So Cat Stevens, the story there. We nearly used sitting for The Office, but then Rod Stewart just beat and pipped him at the post. But then I used tea for The Tillerman. and then I used The Wind and Lily White in Afterlife. Yeah, so this is probably the... I did use Sitting in the end. I used it in The Invention of Lying, but the original was too expensive because it was a film.

39:27So I got Elvis Costello to do a cover. Yes. Yeah, Elvis Costello's Arm Fultz is in the back of it. Oh, of course. I love it. Yeah, I think I used to know the lyrics to that off by heart. And yeah, he just went into the studio. I told him about it. He said, I haven't heard that song. And then I went, oh, have a listen. And then it must have been like three days later, he said, I went into my mate's studio. Is this all right? And he just sent me the finished master. Wow. That's crazy. That's brilliant. So these recording sessions where you recorded the audio for what then gets animated. Will we ever get to see?

40:09It'd be a lovely extra, wouldn't it? For us to get to see one of those actual sessions and watch, were they filmed at all? Or did you not want that? I think it would be a lovely extra, but not till I die. Because, you know, you've come along to, I think you've probably had a set visit on everything I've ever done over the last 25 years. Yeah, I believe so, yeah. And obviously what you get is, you see two or three minutes of script done for six hours. It's not as exciting, is it? Do you know what I mean? I mean, it's nice to be behind the scenes, but... It is repetitive. Yeah. So, and my days are short and fast.

40:50So you go on some places, you will see a man running down the road 300 times and then going, okay, see you tomorrow. So mine are probably more exciting days than most because we get a lot done and I do move on and we change it all the time. So I think there's a bit of that in it, that you think you want to see hours and hours of footage, but then you wish someone had edited it all together for you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the rule, I don't think, unless something exciting happens, unless something that's just so out there that we couldn't go in. But yeah, that's in my mind what I was thinking of, that stuff that's so extreme that you thought twice about using it in the final.

41:35Yeah. But we put that in. That's the 15 minutes. Yeah. The most extreme. It feels like at the end of it, I thought, is this, is this the record for the most amount of swearing in a, in one TV show? Well, it might be, it might be. I don't, I don't know. I've never really, I mean, that's the only reason kids can't watch it. If we're being honest, you know, it's a really cozy, sweet, sort of philosophical, sort of journey. There's lots of elements. There's love and death. There's romance. But they swear a lot, you know? There's no, like, horrible, gratuitous violence or sex or all the other things that's in live action that kids can't watch.

42:21There's a bit of violence, to be fair. There is a little bit of a, oh, yeah. No spoilers. Yeah, no spoilers, but does it involve a kid in a skate park? Yes. I was like, okay, you've come through with that. Well, when we showed that bit at the cast and crew screening, it got a round of applause. Oh, I bet. That's probably showing what sick people I work with. It is incredible to see, yes. Yes. but the swearing what's interesting about the swearing and your character I think in particular is he's saying a lot of he's saying effing and jeffing and cunt this cunt that and making incredible politically incorrect jokes off him but he's got a heart isn't he a good guy and that's an interesting thing I think because he's sort of he's not as tough as he thinks he's not as smart as he thinks he's more vulnerable than he lets on he's got anxiety you know he's a normal I know he's a cat but let's talk about him like he's a normal guy who wants to do the right thing he's at the bottom of the pile he's sort of you know he's trying to get on his life is short you know he's halfway through he's got a lot of responsibility he's a cat he's a cat So he's angry and he's tired and he's furious and he's hungry.

43:59So, but yeah, it's sort of, there is a developmental arc with Gus's character. Even though you can watch it individually, it does work as a binge. It does work as a 90-minute film. Yeah. Because, you know, there's the romance, there's the finding the kitten's home, there's the, you know, Gus's sort of inner monologue. So there's lots to deal with in the 90 minutes. But it works so well as I'm going to get addicted to 15 minutes. If I do it, the next thing I do, if it's a sitcom, it's 15 minutes. Honestly, the art of brevity, mastering the art of brevity is so good. And there is something lovely about those 15-minute chunks.

44:50Yeah. They're so complete and satisfying, and they're so rip-roaring. It's so fast. I hope not only do they watch them all at once, but I think I want them to watch it again immediately, because you're misfits, because they are talking at the same time. It's hard to sort of cut that to make it easy, but it's it's uh it's it's it's such an easy watch these totally i had one mantra all the way through actually two mantras i said audio is king we've already cut that this is king audio make do the animation to the audio it's you know um and the other one was i just want people to love these cats because as you say the things they're doing and saying if that was people it would be pretty horrific but they're cats so it's all right I love the fact that Gus is embarrassed about dancing as well that little detail yeah again I made him that sort of that old-fashioned guy who's not quite in tune with his feelings he doesn't introspect much he just shouts out the things that are at the forefront of his mind he thinks he's sorted it all out but yeah the more you scratch him the deeper he gets really like everyone I haven't changed the genre any good character in a sitcom has got to have layers unless the joke is that they don't have layers but there's got to be surprises and you've got to learn more about them.

46:42The problem with sitcom is by its very sort of nature, that's a difficult thing to do because with a novel or a film or a serial, you have a beginning, middle and end. Sitcom, it's all middle. You've got to hit the ground running. This is what they're like. And they're already like that. And they've got to end up like that. So the changes have got to be sort of, I don't know, really assimilated without people going, this isn't the thing I started watching. Do you know what I mean? It's tricky. It's got to be different every time and the same every time. And so I tried to make it feel the same.

47:24You know, it's palindromic. They start waking up on the couch. They end falling asleep on the couch. The adventure is, you know, and we know what's going to happen usually. although I think this is probably the least predictable thing I've ever done because there's lots of surprises where because that's where the conversations went because the way I filmed it we do the screenplay and I go okay I'm going to go around right so so say your favorite way to die and I'd put them on the spot you know some of them and then uh you know particularly someone like David Earl would always throw a spanner in the works and we'd all crack up and I go no say that say that i'll say this before it though i'll give you this line say that say that exactly that and we've left some of the laughter in as well yes i love we're trying to get out a point as someone's trying to get out a point we've left in the laughter you can see you can hear people stifling if you particularly with headphones i think um you can you can hear some of the uh i like the fact that david earl most of david earl's stuff is revolving perverse sex of one of some one kind or another.

48:29Yeah, very inventive as well. Very inventive. Very inventive. It's not... That's the other thing. I don't want people to think this isn't... Even the term adult animation has got connotations. You know, I want people to know it's adult animation like The Simpsons and Family Guy is. It's not gross out. It's not spiky. It's not made for, you know, troubled teenagers. it's it's it's quite elegant it's quite sweet it's quite philosophical um it's just that sometimes they they talk rubbish you know and they have urges but but there's no there's no anatomy there's no yeah do you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah it's like delightful and yet at the same time full of outrageousness it's like marrying those two is really interesting I think.

49:24So I think it's, you know, the dialogue must be the most outrageous you've ever had in a show, but at the same time, it's got a real heart and soul to it as well. And that's. Because, because they're idiots. They don't know about the world. So when they say something absolutely outrageous and mental, it's with no malice. They believe it because they're stupid. And at one point they go, we got, we got brains the size of a walnut. They go, we haven't got any responsibility, you know, when they're going to kill the kids. We've got no. Exactly. Yeah. I also love that you've got, you're in your repertory company, which it now is, isn't it, really?

49:59Yeah. Tom Basden is always the middle class one. And you've named him to celebrate that fact, Ponce, which is perfect for him. Yes. You have been playing a bit of a Ponce in all the shows you've had him in. Yeah. And I think that's because I like to sneak in the classic British sitcom class struggle. You know, we've always done it, even if it's not obvious. We've always had someone who's a fish out of water. and there's another theme that I've always liked from really early stuff like Groucho Marx, Woody Allen through to Lisa Simpson. It never pays to be the smartest person in the room. You know what I mean?

50:37It's that thing, it's better to be popular than clever. And he's a fish out of water and he can't win, you know. But it's brotherly as well. They love each other. They argue like families argue. They argue like you tease your older brother for being smarter than you, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought it was about friendship as well. It's exactly about that. It's about friendship. You know, most sitcoms are about a set of reoccurring characters. They're usually a family, either literally or metaphorically. You know, Bilko is a family. They're in the army. You know, Porridge is a family. And then there's literal families, the royal family, Steptoe and Son, Only Fools and Norses.

51:16the other thing staple of sitcom is that they have to be trapped in some way either literally metaphorically economically and these cats are trapped because they're cats what they're going to do they are they found a couch in a disused house and that's it that's that's their life they better make the most of it like all those guys were trapped in Wernham Hulk exactly yeah they're sort of trapped because you let it happen that was like the theme there was it's your fault really yes it's not that bad but if you want to do something else you better do it now yeah so yeah there's all there's always a level of being trapped i think the other thing that reminded me of i don't know if this is an influence for you but it reminded me of derrick and clive you know that peter cook and dudley more one of the one of the things i said to the actors that this is this is like because i wanted to do it like a podcast so i I said, it's like a cross between Derek and Clive at Animal Farm and Only Fools and Horses.

52:20That was the three things I cited. And the other thing about it is it's a bit retro punk. It's like they're trying to say screw the world, but they can't, you know. And that's a staple as well. That's things from like, I don't know, things like Citizen Smith. Yeah, yeah. And Vivian in The Young Ones. Yeah, exactly. That's sort of like... In fact, they even talk like him a bit, don't they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And yeah, every single person nailed their part better than anyone else could have. On every one of their parts, those actors did. I couldn't think of a better person to do that than them, which is, well, you know, it was sort of formed around them.

53:16So, yeah. And, yeah, they're all amazing. They're all amazing. But, like, Andrew Brooke, oh, God, he's a beast. With improv and staying in character and saying the right thing for that character is incredible. And you have Diane Morgan, who is, like, you know, one of the most talented and impressive and, you know, successful comedy writers and performers. And she's got a little fantastic little part in this ensemble. It's that, you know, that level of talent. Yeah, which grows and grows. And same as she did in Afterlife, Kath. Kath was a little part that grew and grew over the series. And it's the same, like, if we get the second series, her part's, like, twice as big, you know.

53:58But, yeah, Joe Hartley as Kitten, Tony Way as the drug dealer and a few others. Natalie Cassidy as Gus's mum and an old flame of puke, which is a very funny cameo. Yeah, Kerry Godleyman. And as you say, yeah, Tom Basden. Tom Basden's great as well because he sees the bigger picture. that as you say they're all they're not those people aren't actors for hire they're all writers and directors and producers so they they always bring something else they always bring a different backstory or i couldn't predict some of the ad libs i just couldn't predict them you know yeah that's brilliant there is one amazing thing as well where you sing a lullaby that i thought was so interesting again did you did you prepare were you slightly nervous about doing that yeah I was because you don't want people to think you think that you're good enough to sing in a thing so uh but I had to I had I wanted to be in tune but I didn't want it to be too good for a fat cat who doesn't sing so I had to make it just sort of slightly you know like he was laying down and a bit breathy and and quiet and it was it was it was just more about the mood than belting out a show tune.

55:24But yeah, I think I was worried about it. Yeah, yeah, you are worried when you do anything like that. Dance, sing, play an instrument, win a fight. All those things are on the edge of going, you just wanted to show you had biceps. There's always a hint of that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. Well, we've ran out, I could talk all day, all night about Ali Cats. Netflix, 7th of August. Everyone's going to watch it. Thank you so much. Everyone's got to watch it. It's the new door, actually. Yeah, that's a fair enough. It's the new door, yeah. Thank you so much. That was Ricky Gervais talking to me recently over the Zoom.

56:10And Ali Cats, of course, itself arrives on the Netflix on Friday, the 7th of August. and we would review it in this episode, but it's heavily embargoed. So I think we're reviewing it next week when Steph will be joining you and I. Yes, she's excited to watch it as well. So it's good. Very exciting. Now, even though, listeners, we're recording this slightly more in advance as when we normally do, we are still going to do a new section, whatever. Section. I'm going to begin by asking you a question. Go on. Did you know that Game of Thrones, which is one of your favourite shows, right? Yeah. Didn't you, you watched it or you didn't?

56:52No, I was limbering up to do it. It was going to be Game of Thrones, which will still happen at some point. Yeah, it's on the list. It's on my sofa list. Right, but you've never actually watched an episode. Not for... I'm not trying to throw in the shame you, by the way. No, no, no. I think I've watched the first episode. Right. Did you know that there is a live theatrical play? What? On now, starting now, at the Theatre Royal Stratford-upon-Avon by the Royal Shakespeare Company. How are they going to condense that? Well, this is my second point. The first point is I didn't know this was happening until I was asked to review it.

57:34So I'm going to see it, not this Saturday, but the Saturday when I get back from my holiday. Question, are you taking James? Is this a… No, I don't think I've got a plus one. He would have loved that. But let me just say, in terms of how do you hone it down, the answer to your question is it's four hours long. What? Indeed. oh my gosh i hope the seats are comfortable boyd or take a cushion can you imagine no horrific no i know four hours four hours long you need right you need you need drinks you need snacks you need a cushion i worried mainly worried about my um how can we put it needing to go to the loo regularly yeah oh actually okay skip the drinks i've got a week later no you've got to keep hydrated haven't you no but i don't think you do if you're going to be up and down you can't irritate the people next to you going oh excuse me excuse me i i might have to ask the publicist for it to guarantee me an aisle seat because yes okay i think that's fine is that too much being too much of a diva no i think you you you have a condition and that needs to be recognized with an aisle seat for everyone's sake not least your fellow um theater goers But that's exciting.

58:44Yeah. But anyway, the reason I put it in news was, it was news to me that it was happening, this huge, big production, four hours long, an official Game of Thrones play. And it's all literally happening at the RSC in Stratford-upon-Avon. And are there any big names? Do you know what? I don't think I'm just looking at it now. Not that there needs to be. I'm just wondering. So it's described as, it's called Game of Thrones, The Mad King, a new play based on the novels by George R.R. Martin, adapted by Duncan Macmillan, and directed by Dominic Cook. Dominic Cook is a really, they're both really highly respected theatrical types, to coin a phrase.

59:26But the cast includes, Eddard Stark is played by Michael Abubakar. So Jamie Lannister is Maxim Ais. Brandon Stark, Luke Brady, you'll recognise these people. I'm just exactly I'm going along but actually I suppose if I saw pictures I'd recommend I would say it's not hugely star led which it probably doesn't need to be does it because obviously the whole concept yeah the whole concept of a Game of Thrones play is that is that it's Game of Thrones right it doesn't need to have a story part big ensemble piece yeah but I am recognising a lot of these these actors anyway from you know kind of TV work they've done and I think so yeah I'm going to see that that's exciting yeah in a couple of weekends time you'll have to let us know what it's like Thanks.

1:00:08Yeah, I will. Definitely. Yeah, for sure. What news have you got? Okay, so I clicked on a link about Doctor Who. And it said that Jodie Whittaker and Mandip Gill were reprising their respective roles as the 13th Doctor and Yasmin Khan in an upcoming Doctor Who adventure. And I was like, what? But it turns out it's being released as an audio drama. And this seems to be a theme at the moment because, well, I'll come to another story. But anyway, just to let you know that if you are fans of Jodie and Mandip, that the audio drama is called The 13th Doctor Adventures, The Greatest Train Robbery. And it is written by Carissa Hamilton-Bannis, who has previously written on Hollyoaks.

1:00:51And yeah, it's going to be available as an audio drama, which seems to be a theme because earlier in the week I was looking around for new stories. and we're big fans of Johnny Bailey, as Boyd likes to call him, and obviously Leslie Manville. And again, it was a brand new adaptation of Bram Stoker's Dracula. But this time was, and it was coming out in October, again, it was going to be an audio drama for Audible. So I was like, it's obviously becoming more of a big thing to get these big names in audio dramas, either on the radio or on Audible or wherever. Um, so yeah, it was quite, I like an audio drama, so I was quite happy about that.

1:01:33Of course. There's a whole, there's a, as a, not as a, as a non-Who obsessive, um, I mean you, um, there's a whole tradition of audio adventures, audio books. Oh, right. Yeah, Doctor Who. There's a, but it's still, but it's big news that she was doing it. Yeah. Oh, apologies. I didn't know. No, no, no, no, no. No apology needed, but I'm just bringing context. Yeah, it's a big thing that there are, for years, there have been audio adventures from Doctor Who, spin-offs from Doctor Who, and it's a big thing. And always with the Doctors playing. It varies. It varies. So there might – not always, no.

1:02:09So obviously they'll go back to other characters, supporting characters might get a story focusing on them. But, you know, some of the old-school Doctor Who actors might be involved, like Peter Davison, it varies. But there are a lot of – it might be an adaptation of – because there's Doctor Who books, Doctor Who novels. it's a whole oh it's a whole thing okay anyway oh okay apologies no honestly stop saying apologies but also i mean i found it interesting because um recently i saw that one of jilly cooper's um books you know because i thought all jilly cooper's works now would just be made for tv yeah again that was another um it was going to be an audible original um audio drama it's called a pressing engagement um which dropped i think last week so yeah anyway okay if you're into audio dramas that's just something to look out for absolutely a film that I could have and maybe even should have included in my top 10 it's not allowed now that is absolutely locked down this is what I'm talking about this is what I'm talking about is that this probably was number 11 bubbling under along with Hostile America oh my god yeah no no no but the reason I mention it is because it's a bit it was a new story first to say that the San Diego Comic Con happened at the weekend, Kate.

1:03:22Do you know what that is? Yes. It is where all these big news stories are coming from because I saw them as well. Yeah. So San Diego Comic-Con is a massive event, the biggest of its kind, where all of basically nerdy, geeky properties, intellectual properties, and all of the big studios, the film studios and TV studios, Marvel, Prime Video, Netflix, et cetera, they unveil... a lot of their upcoming content. And they're the first place you see trailers. There's loads of trailers of big shows. Is this where James is on holiday? No, but it is where Chris Hewitt of the Empire podcast, he went there.

1:04:02And he, yeah, you can get a whole report. So I'm not going to delve into all of the TV-related stories that happened, that were unveiled at Comic-Con, because Chris has done a standalone. If you subscribe to Empire Plus, I think maybe even if you don't, you can still access his standalone. and look at all of the stories, film and TV stories. I think he mentions Marvel TV shows. But I wanted to mention something. The most exciting thing that was unveiled at San Diego Comic-Con was the trailer for Blade Runner 2099. And Blade Runner is that film I was talking about that's bubbling under in my top 10.

1:04:39And some weeks probably would have been in the top 10. But alas, it wasn't. Have you watched the trailer, Kay? I'm sure it was top of your list. No, I haven't. Was it good? Well, the trailer was absolutely spectacular. I think it looked incredible. One of the things about Blade Runner in the film is it's one of the most influential. It's look, the cityscapes and the kind of noir-ish, dark, neon lit element to it is stunning. It's got one of the most stunning opening sequences ever in terms of visual effects and the visuals of it. And this trailer looked unbelievably beautiful. like the way they've kind of incorporated the original look of Blade Runner and the subsequent belated sequel as well that Ryan Gosling was in but also giving it a slightly new feel as well.

1:05:25It stars Hunter Schaefer from Euphoria. Michelle Yeoh is in it as well and Hunter Schaefer looks really good in it. And they also announced it's premiering on November 25th on Prime Video. That's exciting for you. Just the last bit of my news was going to be about - Oh, last bit. Yes, well, I'm just looking at the clock void. We're teetering towards an hour. We haven't done the reviews. I think James is going to go absolutely banana crackers. I know he's not here, but I'm just always having it in the back of my mind. This is brief. This is like, we're not even close to it. What are you talking about?

1:05:56We go into like an hour and a half, usually. This is absolutely... It's in turn. If that's why you're... Please don't censor yourself, because I'm droning on in the UNS. I was starting to. As I embarked on the audio drama, No, no, no, please God. What am I doing? No, no, no, no, no. This is, no, we carry on until, you know. Okay. The cows come home. Cows come home, is that right? Okay, carry on. Well, I tell you he's coming home. Morgan Spector. So I really loved him in The Gilded Age, as you know, fan of that period drama. And it's been announced that he will be playing Robert Langdon, who is a Dan Brown character, in Dan Brown's novel, The Secrets of Secrets, which will be coming to Netflix.

1:06:41So I think that's really exciting because I love Morgan Spector. And Dan Brown's books, I mean, hit and miss, but... You love them? No, no, no. But I love Morgan Spector. I think he's great in that lead. The role played by Tom Hanks in the frankly terrible film versions of those books. Well, let's hope for a better result with Morgan. Oh, that's like a surefire hit, isn't it? Completely. I think so. Yeah. Did you see the story about a show called Yaga on Sky? Oh, yeah. This is coming up on Sky in the autumn, later in the autumn. And it's described as, Sky today unveiled the first look at Yaga, Y-A-G-A, a seductive contemporary mystery thriller starring Carrie-Anne Moss from The Matrix, Noah Reed from Schitt's Creek.

1:07:35Yeah. Yes. Yeah, your favourite. And Hudson Williams. Do you know who Hudson remembers? Yes, of course I do. Heated rivalry. Heated rivalry, Kane. So this effectively - You peaked my interest, Boyd. Yeah, this is an interest peaker. I deliberately picked this new story. You know exactly what you're doing with this story. I know, to get you excited. Yeah. And many of the listeners as well. And not only, Kane, not only has this thing been confirmed for October, it's going to be October on Sky and now. Yeah. The trailer includes, I would say, raunchy scenes with Hudson Williams. Listen, give the audience what they want, Boydo.

1:08:14So not only is this a Hudson Williams project, but the famously frequently naked actor, as he is seen in Hated Rivalry, also gets quite hot and bothered from what I've seen in the minute-long trailer for this show, Yaga. So I'm excited. Yeah. Do we have a date, did he say? October. And it's created and written by Kat Sandler. And I'll just read you the synopsis. Yager follows Rapp, a private investigator, arrives in a small coastal town to investigate the disappearance of a young heir to a powerful fishery, played by Hudson Williams. So Hudson Williams is the character who's disappeared. Fishy, literally fishy.

1:08:53He finds himself at odds with an apprehensive local detective, Carson, played by Clark Bakko, a charismatic university professor with a taste for younger men, Catherine Carianne Moss, and a labyrinth of enigmatic suspects, secret lives, and ancient magic. Exciting times. Okay, yeah, exciting times. I might mention one more show. Did you know Prime Video is excited to announce, Prime Video, as we call it on this podcast, is excited to announce a new four-part docuseries chronicling Spain's historic World Cup triumph, featuring brand new footage, exclusive access to the players and coaching staff behind the team's second World Cup final victory.

1:09:36I love it when a sports documentary is, and that's where they're filming it all along, and they haven't told you they're filming it all along, and then suddenly they go, oh, we just happen to be filming this all along, and Spain won the World Cup final, as James probably wouldn't know. So I'm excited by this idea, because there were rumours last year that there was a secret special documentary about Arsenal that they were going to unveil. It turns out it hasn't happened. I don't think they were filming. You know, for general consumption, I think you can get lots of videos on Arsenal's own content.

1:10:06But I think this is exciting. A docu-series coming later in the year. Now, the only thing, like, the thing that would get me excited is if in that they have captured, is it Lamin Yamal? Yeah, Lamin Yamal. Yes. Oh my God, Boyd, I can't tell you how obsessed I've come with his little brother, who is the absolute star of the World Cup. attention grabbing you know he is so adorable and sweet and funny and such a great dancer anyone anyone who's interested please go to instagram and just look up his like uh yamal's name and find it because there are so many clips of his brother being cute at the world cup and i am hoping he's got a starring role in this absolutely yeah i'm yeah he's he is hilarious and brilliant and the whole the whole story of lamin yamal and his family and such is incredibly moving as well.

1:10:56Let's wrap up news. Yeah. And now you've got me worried about the timing, even though, as I say, we frequently hit the 90-minute mark. Three-hour mark. It's time for the reviews section, Kay. Woo-hoo! Now, I'm going to leave – we've got three shows to review. Possession, which is the Goo Goo and Bath & Roar. I would describe it as a thriller, right? Yeah. In many ways. Benidorm is murder. The John Hanna. I would say it's got cozy crime. Yeah. On five in a location, i.e. Benidorm. Yeah. And Lioness, season three with Zoe Saldana and lots of stars, Nicole Kidman, Morgan Freeman, et cetera. Which of those do you want to go first with?

1:11:42I think Benidorm should be the meat in the sandwich. I think we should start with – let's start with possession. Yes. possession in which we follow um lawyer gugu and bartha raw um to jamaica to investigate the uh that a huge big kind of a bit of land and big house has been left to a mysterious um person who lives there by the benefactor who owned it in the first place and um she goes to investigate what the hell is going on with this place and why it's been left to this mystery person, while Jolene Miller plays the person who expected to inherit him and his family this lavish, huge, big place.

1:12:25Kay, what did you make of possession? I hadn't thought up a pun. Were you possessed by possession? I mean, that's lame, isn't it? Do you know a little bit, but I was, actually, I have to say. So this is a five-part Gothic thriller. And as Boyd says, it's kind of, Gugu is this ambitious biracial lawyer, Claudia, who is tasked with going to Jamaica to kind of disprove that this local man, Cujo East, has inherited this huge fortune. because the white aristocratic, like very wealthy son of the benefactor, Oliver, played by Johnny V. Miller, just can't see how this would possibly happen because no one knows who this Cujo is within the family.

1:13:13And so she heads out there and she is hellbent on succeeding in this case because she wants to get promoted. And you get the sense that she's also trying to like, there's stuff bubbling under the surface that she's trying to ignore. Her mum died when she was young. her Jamaican mother, her father is alive. And there's just a sense that she's, there's a sense of unease in her. But anyway, she's blocking it out with work. And when she gets there, she has this real sort of sense of uneasiness about the family home that she visits, which is called Hope Hill, ironically named, because actually it was a former plantation.

1:13:49And she gets this sort of, she seems to be familiar with it in some way, there's, you know, and she's very unsettled by the behavior of one of the employees, Angelo, who he acts in a, I'm not going to give any spoilers, but he acts in a quite bizarre way, she thinks, and she's spooked by it. We get flashbacks as well, which ordinarily I'm not so keen on, but actually I thought was quite good in this because we follow two timelines. So it's this current day when she's working on this legal case and then we are also sort of taken back to the awful horrible history brutal past of the plantation it's 1760 and there's two half siblings who are vying for their father's favor what i really liked about this is that i think first of all i think it's really um beautifully done it is it's gorgeous to look at it reminded me in a way of do you remember Get Millie Black, which was also, you know, it was shot in Jamaica, but gave a really sort of real authentic portrayal of it rather than just the, you know, the lovely sandy beaches and stuff.

1:14:55It felt very raw and real and authentic. So I loved how it was shot. It explores this idea of reparation and the idea that the sins of the father are coming back to haunt, you know, the offspring. And Claudia in taking on this case unwittingly is sort of unlocking parts of her past and the story resonates with her in ways that she hadn't realized and I think it's really it's a really sensitively handled good portrayal of how the black slaves were treated by their masters and the injustices they experienced and through the storytelling and the flashbacks and also the exploration of like witchcraft I think it's just very smartly done and it's thought-provoking, but it's really deeply atmospheric, like quite chilling.

1:15:48And I was really taken with it. And it's twisty and there's a sense of foreboding and I wanted to watch the next episode. So, yeah, I enjoyed it. What about you? Yeah, I did. I enjoyed it as well. I think what most impressed me about it was I've seen kind of shows and films that have elements of this kind of story in them. You know, there are loads of 12 Years a Slave, you know, sorts of depictions of slavery and plantation life, et cetera. And I've seen kind of supernatural, horror-y type films, particularly that depict this kind of world. But the way the elements of this show are brought together, is the present day stuff, the mystery of the benefactor giving it to, the mystery of Cujo East, as you say, the kind of hints at Supernatural goings on when she arrives in this house are very well done.

1:16:55Because it's easy, it can easily come across as silly or kind of preposterous. or they're handled with a light touch in the sense that they're keeping it, you know, there's not spectacular CGI, you know, phantoms, you know, swinging around the house, if you like. So there's an element of realism to it for what is going to be, which is already in the first episode turning out to be a fantastical kind of story. And then it starts cutting between in a very, I love the transition, the first transition from present day with Gugu to the past, to the plantation where Belle Powley is there, and she's kind of having this horrible dinner with her father, who's horrendous, and one of the slaves is humiliated and all of that.

1:17:47I thought that was such a clever transition. And then from then on, you actually see, I would say more than just flashback, it becomes like a split timeline drama, really, whereby you've got the goings-on, the mysterious bizarre goings-on in the present day, who is Cujo East, et cetera, and the kind of parallel historical stuff whereby, you know, the characters back in those days, back in the days of slavery, what happened to them impacts on, again, but not too heavy-handed, what's going on today. And I thought it was really interesting. The thing that most impressed me about it was I'd never seen this thing before.

1:18:24It's rare, you know. In the days of, you know, we weren't that keen on Furious. We reviewed last week. And I've seen lots of opinions split over Furious, by the way. I was going to mention that in. Bit like Android. Anyway, Karen. Well, Android is much, much better than Furious. But people love Furious. People are like, oh, this is a feminist, like, great feminist masterpiece. And people really enjoy it. We didn't like it particularly at all. But the reason I bring it up is there's loads of serial killer thrillers at the moment. You know, there's lots of crime capers with gangsters, rival gangland groups pit against other gangland groups, bent cops doing this, that and the other.

1:19:01There's loads and loads of stuff that you generally see that kind of thing each week on TV. This is a whole new thing, right? I've never seen anything like this before on TV is what I'm saying. Refreshing. It's very refreshing to get something that feels different and new and trying to show you something you might not have seen. And I think it's really clever. It's created by Carla Crone, by the way, who is a British. She's mainly known for being an actress. She was in Hit and Miss. She was in Misfits back in the day. And she's only 38, by the way. And she has created and has written, as far as I can tell, most of this show.

1:19:39And it's directed by Storm Salter, who's a Jamaican filmmaker, which I think is obviously really important that it's got a Jamaican filmmaker at the center of it. And he does a brilliant job because, as you say, it looks incredible, really atmospheric. It's got a really interesting atmosphere to it. And I just thought it was fascinating. And also good to see Johnny Lee Miller back, by the way. You don't see him that often for me. Like, you know, back in the day, he was like a kind of frequenter of gangster films, Guy Ritchie stuff. But he's always really good. And I think he's really good in this.

1:20:10And Gugu, Mbatha-Raw, can do no wrong. But she modulates this performance so well. She's obviously skipped the scene you're talking about that we don't want to spoil, where she's confronted by something quite shocking. And the way she reacts to that, and then the way she deals with it is really clever. Of course, she was in The War Between the Land and the Sea in December. That was the thing most recently. Did I interview her with this podcast? We did. We chatted. And she's brilliant. She's a brilliant actress and is fantastically cast in this. So, yeah, I really enjoyed it. So that's Possession.

1:20:44It's on Sky Atlantic and now from Thursday, the 6th of August, 2026. Okay. I shall be continuing to watch. And now, what did you describe it as? The meat in the sandwich. Well, I didn't say what kind of meat, but yeah. Well, exactly. Could be spam, could be quality beef, who knows. It could well be spam. This is Channel 5, 5 as it's now known. They've dropped the channel, just to be annoying. This is the latest 5 drama series. and it is set in Benidorm, as the title would suggest, and it stars John Hanna as Dennis Crown, who is an ex-police detective who, left in kind of bad terms, moved to Benidorm where he owns and runs a bar.

1:21:37I say runs a bar. I mean, he takes on a new employee, Rosa, made by Carolina. Yeah, but very few customers. Very few customers. And there's one funny bit, actually, where a customer asks if they can have lunch. And he looks and he's got a Breville toaster thing, and that's the only option for lunch at his pub. But, you know, that's simply. Now, you started the review of the last one. So, you know, even though I'm hosting and reviewing at the same time, I will dive straight in. And all I'd say about Ben, the thing that struck me about Ben was murderers. And as soon as it was announced, and then I've seen the trailers and et cetera, I cannot get past the fact that John Hanna is D.I.

1:22:21Jack Cloth when it comes to crime series. And he was the star of A Touch of Cloth, the legendary piss take of this kind of show, in which he played alongside Saran Jones, who was an old man, an old man in it. And it was the incredibly stupid but brilliantly funny Charlie Brooker attempt to do a kind of airplane silly comedy about crime dramas and look at all of the different tropes and cliches. And he was the guy in the middle of it. And it was all about how cliched and preposterous he is. And now he's back doing an actual detective drama playing this character. And I just kept thinking, and every now and then he does something or he has a reaction shot or he just, and I'm thinking, that's cloth.

1:23:06that's not that's not your character in this show so my main advice is I mean if you really want a cosy crime show this is basically death in paradise isn't it like it's that format it's a Brit abroad kind of finagling his way into an investigation with the help of one of the locals who's also his employee he's annoying the actual police who's led by a DS Maria Hernandez played by Ariadna Cabral she's just constantly annoying him because he's sticking his nose in it's all very like fish out of water cosy crime being investigated lavish scenery I mean Benidorm isn't wherever the hell Death in Paradise is set and that which you went to once didn't you?

1:23:47Yeah Guadalupe Guadalupe I mean Benidorm isn't quite Guadalupe but it has that similar vibe to it right? A little bit I think it's aimed for it Well it's sort of like it's more Brits abroad isn't it? So it's going to have like a revolving characters who are going to be quite heightened I imagine or you know Yeah absolutely What it has in common with certain recent crime, kind of cozy crime shows, is that the whole mystery is wrapped up in one episode, right? So I would say in a 60-minute episode, which is probably with that, it's probably about 46, 47 minutes, and the whole thing is covered, is sorted out within that episode, which is quite satisfying in a way, but it does underline for me the unbelievable thinness of the central crime.

1:24:34That's my issue. Yeah, the member of a Take That tribute band is killed and thrown into the suit. Robbie Williams, get it, yeah. Robbie Williams. What's the name of the Take That? Fake That? Mistake That. Mistake That. The big central crime that needs to be solved is who killed him in his hotel bedroom and then threw him into the hotel swimming pool. but it feels so kind of like thin as i say and like not fleshed out and solved within about five minutes of getting to getting to know the characters that um yeah it didn't feel particularly like a chewy meaty thing what what i'm hoping about that because that is my main complaint about it is that the crime wasn't particularly taxing and um was sold very quickly but i think perhaps in that first episode they had to introduce all those characters you know like the main characters so hopefully in the second episode you know they'll be able to dedicate more time to the crime have you gone on watch the second episode no I haven't I don't think it's available to me Boyd but do you know what I have to say listen from the outset we've said this is not a pilot show we're reviewing it because it's a thin you know everything's embargoed it's a thin week so we should say that yes I like that again we're not recommend well I'm not recommending this to pilot listeners necessarily But I'm saying if you like cozy crime dramas that are set in sun-kissed locations, like recently I watched, was it A Taste for Murder on ITV with Warren Brown?

1:26:06This is in that kind of, this is of that ilk. And I think it is quite satisfying because it does all the things that you would expect. So, and I won't go through them because Boyd's listed them. what the draw is for me and I know it's like ironic because he played cloth but is Hannah John Hannah John Hannah yeah I think he's really good in the role and he's this curmudgeonly grumpy Scottish detective who's just basically drinking any small profits he gets and the character of Rosa who is the waitress the new waitress but she's also like an aspiring actress so she's quite bubbly and it's that mismatch Boyd when I was watching this it reminded me very much of you and me right is that like mismatched dynamic.

1:26:49Oh my God. Yeah, or someone of a younger, fresher, bubbly character cajoling this curmudgeon, no, I'm joking. But I like their dynamic. I think it's really good. And I think that's the draw. I think that's the draw. And the chemistry between him and the inspector as well, I'm interested in. The female inspector. Yes, Inspector Hernandez. Yes. So you're comparing me with John Hannah. as Dennis Crown. Do you know what my complaint about... I think he's decent at it. I slightly worry, you know, like off camera, he's as grumpy as he is on camera. But I don't know. That's speculation on my part. We might have a Frank Spencer Skinner situation on our hands.

1:27:36We don't know. But that's irrespective of that. In this, I think he's good. He is good. My one complaint, though... Not my one. I was going to say my one complaint. I've got a few complaints about the whole show. But my amount of money about his character is they haven't really – I think they could have gone further. There are moments – he says stuff. He says something quite insulting to one of the characters, the woman who wants to be an actress. The barmaid who wants to be an actress. And he slags her off. Rosa. And he says something quite horrible to her. And then literally five seconds later, he apologizes.

1:28:06I'm like, no, you need to – if you're going to do a curmudgeonly grumpy old man character, which I fully admit I can be, since you've compared us, then don't have him apologising 10 seconds later for the quite funny thing he said. You've got to go through it. You've got to have the courage of your convictions. You've got to, you know, maybe the next day he'll apologise. But not instantly. Maybe that's what makes him different. Maybe you could take a leaf out of the book. Maybe the apology should just come a little bit swifter. Let me just say I reject this comparison massively. I don't mind being completely D.I.

1:28:40Jack Cloth from A Touch of Cloth. that's fine you could be my an old man old war man yeah they don't they haven't got the courage of their convictions with the character he's too in the end he's too nice and he's supposed to be really grumpy so that was my main critique of it I mean my only rebuttal to that I don't know why I'm defending yeah I mean you're the main defence no but you love it I do think if he went down too much down the road he would just be like stereotypical it would be like all the other shows at least this is a slight point of difference that he's not a complete commercially twat difference wow okay maybe it's not like a lack of commitment to that stereotype and that you know cliche it's actually like okay he's he's been worn down by life but he's not a total arsehole okay so you're committing to watching the rest of the series again lessons we learn um um I'll watch some more for you yeah sure will you what really are you serious I'll watch one more okay if you send me the screener what was that channel 5 show that I love rat that you're obsessed with yeah So I think this is directed by Simon Delaney, who might be our ex-boss, Sam Delaney's relative, I think.

1:29:48But who knows? Not sure. But yeah, in and of itself, it's not terrible. It's fine. No, I don't think so. I think, like I said, if you like all those other shows, Tate for Murder, Death in Paradise. I was fully expecting it to be embarrassingly terrible, I think. So I'm kind of pleasantly – it's not awful. If James was here, honestly, he'd be like, this is the worst thing ever. of them. Listen, if James was here, we wouldn't have done your film list. We wouldn't have talked about football. Exactly. But like Benidorm itself, it's kind of cheap and cheerful, is what I would say. So yeah. Anyway, Benidorm's Murder is on five now.

1:30:20Not now. As in the streaming service now, it's on five already. It's dropped. You can watch it now as this podcast goes out. Thank you very much. And now finally, we reach Lioness, season three of the espionage action thriller, spectacular, starring Zoe Saldana as the woman who kind of runs the Lioness program, which recruits women particularly to go undercover with dangerous people, mostly in the Middle East. Although this time, in this third season, Kay, the action moves quite substantially. to Ukraine. What say you about Lioness? Have you watched, by the way, the previous two seasons of Lioness or are you brand new to this particular show?

1:31:10I watched the first episode. I think we previewed the first series and I watched that and I didn't continue. So I was coming in new. They do a handy recap. I mean, it is handy, but also still quite confusing if you're coming into it fresh. I just want to bring up a thing. Is it Saldana or Saldania? I think it's Saldana because she's got the thing on her end, hasn't she? Oh, she's got a tilt. Okay, fine. Zoe Saldana. She is in good nick and is My Fitness Goals now. The opening, like one of the first scenes is her, like working out. She is absolutely in peak condition for this role. Yeah. Since you've gone in early on her body and you do see quite an extensive amount of her body, I would add.

1:31:50Yes. Yes. And also like Dave Annabelle, who I used to fancy in Brothers and Sisters, it's also on good films. Yeah. Aesthetically pleasing from that point of view. Less naked shots of him, though. No, but yeah. So I'd say, look, I found the pre-credit sequence very arresting. Something like she is in danger, Zoe's character. Is it Joe? Yeah, Joe. Joe, yeah. And that immediately does grab your attention. And then there's this requisite six-month flashback where she's deployed to Ukraine, right? and she's taken to Ukraine by her team who have to look after her. And Russians have somehow infiltrated a pipeline and they're using its ferry troops and equipment and they have to stop them, but also identify one of them in particular.

1:32:44He's supposedly very high up in the Russian Secret Service or whatever, the Russian kind of cagey. Yeah. Right. I think that's the idea. And she's the only one who can identify him. Or, yeah, she's the one who's been selected to do that because they're very hot on mentioning because she wants to get involved and they're like, no, we have to protect you. You are the mission, you know, as much as getting this guy, right? Anyway, so they are, you know, there's swarms of drones, which I have to say was a little bit triggering for me because I've recently had an infestation of blue bottles. I was like hearing that.

1:33:16I was going to say, is it triggering? Have you got drones outside your flat? No, but that noise of them was so similar. Just side note, I walked into my living quarters the other day, my living room, and there's about 35 plus blue bottles. And I honestly, it was horrific. But yeah, there's all these drones and gunfire and stuff like this. And robots. So new types of warfare. Anyway. You've left out the most important element of all those things, dogs. Yes, dogs. Oh my God, of course. Yes. Sorry. Yeah, the dogs. the crazy dogs who were like trained to attack and kill. Fuck's sake. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, that was on my list of things.

1:33:59I just - I'm glad I reminded you. Yeah. Which were fun, you know, like just - Fun? Horrific. Horrific, like fun to see, like fun - Dogs tearing, tearing. Oh my God. I have to say, I was not expecting the word fun to be used in connection with the use of dogs in the show. It was just a fun element. Like, not fun, that's the wrong word. It was spectacular. spectacular like to see that as well as the drones and the robots whatever in spite of all that the gunfire the drone attacks the crazy dogs i found it boring i found this boring i did not care if they succeeded in their mission you know the fact that it starts with joe alive at the beginning even if so she's in peril at the beginning pre-sequence the fact that she is alive negates any suspense over what's going to happen to her there and if she makes it up in ukraine alive so while they're all like oh god we've got to make sure she's okay you know like we sort of know that it's it's going to work out but more than that I don't it might just be me I just I found it so I just didn't care even though it was visually very spectacular I just they didn't build enough you know there's not enough relationship or not enough heavy lifting was done beforehand for me to go into the situation think right they really want them to succeed in catching this Russian so yeah that was my conclusion a bit like the first episode of the first series it is spectacular it's well done it's got great cast but there's something about it and i know like taylor sheridan is behind it i don't know what it is i just don't connect with this show irrespective of the very well acting dogs the very well acting dogs yeah the good actors yeah dog canine i don't i don't know how they got did that with the dog again i'm like a bit like um how do they do that when it came to the pit how they got those dogs you know how they train them to do what they have to do and it's quite incredible.

1:35:47I found the use of dogs in this quite distressing, actually. I mean, I just, I don't know. It's like dogs mauling humans and, I mean, it's not nice. I would have found it more distressing if they, no, because nothing happened to the dogs. Spoiler alert, nothing happens to the dogs. If something happened to the dogs, I would have been like, no, dogs are fine. They got a nice meal out of it. It was fine. There's one, no, there's one dog that gets, doesn't, anyway. Maybe you've got one. There's one dog, one dog gets. I'm trying not to spoil it. Anyway, one dog has issues. okay that's all i'd say i thought it was a human okay i did find it very dark as well when i was watching i don't know if it's because i was watching because i was watching the screen it's a laptop so there are parts where it's like i was like who's that is that well i was gonna yeah no i can see that because i watched it on my big screen and even then you know i i kind of um okay well now i'm devastated if what i've realized my mistake okay so there's definitely one dog in peril is what i'd say just not yeah you don't see any horrible thing happen to them people can think I'm spoiling it.

1:36:46In the official spoilers, by the way, there's only one thing that we're not supposed to talk about. And even then, since the show has already started, we could talk about it in theory. But the extent to which she, Jo, is in peril is kind of the crux of this particular series. And Taylor Sheridan, and by the way, it's a shame in a way that Steph isn't here and James isn't here because they're obsessed with Taylor Sheridan's stuff. You know that, don't you? They've completely gone to the dark side when it comes to Yellowstone, the spin-offs, Dutton Ranch. Don't stop shutting up about Dutton Ranch, okay?

1:37:19It's a nightmare. I like to put up with every single fucking week, right? So it's a slight issue. And I know for a fact that James has been catching up on the previous seasons. So he will have to weigh in when he returns from his epic two-week holiday. Anyway, what's interesting is, obviously, Taylor Sheridan, right, he's responsible for almost literally dozens of different shows. and the level of his involvement in them varies from show to show. But this one is definitely one he's more, so unlike, say, Dutton Rodge, I think he's just executive producers. He doesn't get involved creatively. This one, he's written.

1:37:53He's written this stuff. He is the credited writer on the first two episodes, which I watched two. Did you watch one or two? No, absolutely. Just one. Fair enough. I could not. So all of the storytelling decisions that you're talking about, the fact that you were bored, it's down to him. And I think he's fucked this up, I have to say, this episode, because there's really good stuff in it. I think Lionel is at its best when you have these big discussions at CIA – sorry, FBI HQ or CIA HQ, where she's called in to have long chats with her bosses, played by Nicole Kidman and Morgan Freeman, and Michael Kelly.

1:38:30In fact, Michael Kelly, you recognize from the American version of House of Cards. He's her actual boss. and there's some great scenes where they were sitting around vast tables in these offices talking about what tactics to deploy, particularly in episode two, actually. The way that Nicole Kidman has to go around cleaning up after Joe is really interesting as well. And it feels like Nicole Kidman is more involved in this third series than I think that she has before, at least to me, because I've been on and off, watched bits and pieces of the first two. But for me, the reason why Taylor Schoden has screwed this one up is we don't need to see half an hour of this attack on the Russians in Donetsk in Ukraine.

1:39:11But also, like, Boyd, it's like you see the swarm of drones once. I know. I don't need to see it any more than, like, one and a half minutes max. Absolutely. So on one level, it's an incredible piece of creativity and authenticity. Well, let me get it. On the one level, the level of authenticity and the fact that the way he depicts literally thousands of drones in the sky. And then all the different elements of modern day warfare that he shows with all the cameras they've got on there, helmets and all the different things. But it's just a boring action sequence to me. And it's very well done. It's brilliantly handled.

1:39:51But it kind of smells to me of Taylor Schaden flexing his muscles, you know, going, look what we can do now. We can depict and, you know, But we can controversially show Americans actually involved in Ukraine, which is, you know, it's a controversial thing to suggest it's happening. Although they are at odds to say, you know, we're here and it's not our war. Yeah, sure. Yeah, they say stuff like that. Yeah, they talk about it, they debate about it. But it just really weighs down this opening episode. And they're probably, James may be one of them, they're probably fans of this kind of stuff, like espionage thrillers, who love a big action sequence where you can barely see what's going on and all the night vision and all the different – and the attack dogs and all of these things.

1:40:33Probably people think, oh, this is the best thing about this show are those action sequences. For me, though, I agree with you. I think they're gone. He could have done that. He could have wrapped up that whole story element about that attack in five to ten minutes, ten minutes tops. Instead, it goes on and on and on and on in the only episode, and it detracts from the drama of the sense of her life and the fact that how does she deal with her husband? And, you know, how does she deal with her kids, her teenage kids who never see her? And the fact that they're now kind of in danger because of what happens in the rest of the episode.

1:41:05And episode two was much better for me where there's none of that. The action in episode two, there's a big action set piece in episode two, but it's revolving her house and, like, you know, literally the neighbourhood and all their people secretly spying on her. And it's much more riveting. And so I like the show generally. I think it's a really – it's brilliantly done. Technically, it's incredible, but they just didn't need to have that extensive battle sequence in the first episode. And that is my final verdict on Lioness Season 3, which is already on Paramount+. I think it's going episode by episode, week by week.

1:41:39You can't watch the whole thing yet, but fans of the show will want to catch up with it on Paramount+. Also on, okay, these are shows that were embargoed, which we will be reviewing in the next episode with our great hero, Steph Seeland. Ted Lasso, the new series, Kay? Yes, very excited about that. Ali Katz, you've heard Richard Jace talking about it. Sterling Point, which is a new teen drama on Prime Video, because Prime Video doesn't have enough teen dramas. There's also on, which we probably won't review, but also on, if you're interested, the second season of 100 Years of Solitude on Netflix starts on Wednesday, which is the Gael Garcia Marquez adaptation.

1:42:19if you really want to see that. Sturdy Point is on Wednesday, the 5th on Prime Video. My Life with the Waterboys, season three. That's another teen drama on Netflix. Yes, Netflix starts on Thursday, the 6th. And finally, and most excitingly for me, The Shards. The Bret Easton Ellis Ryan Murphy collab is on Disney Plus on Thursday, the 6th of August, but is heavily embargoed. But we will review it as soon as we can. God, I think that's about it, Kate. We've done it. That's it, we're done. You've been going for nearly an hour and a half, but not quite. I think it's long enough. It's definitely long enough.

1:42:55Thank you so much for my co-pilot, Kay, for managing to achieve this latest episode of the show, another Dot and Ethel. And we'll be back, though, with Steph Seen on this time next week, where we will be reviewing one or other of the Shards, Ted Lasso, Alleycats, maybe all of them. See you then. Pilots out.

1:43:19Love you, love you, love you