In short
Spoiler-heavy discussion of Apple TV+’s Silo Season 3 finale and what it sets up for Season 4, focusing on amnesia, memory-wiping tech, the war between silos (especially Silo 1 vs Silo 18), and the show’s mystery structure.
Guests
Ben Travis and John Nugent (podcast hosts/regulars). Both are longtime Silo viewers; Ben finished the finale quickly and is skeptical about amnesia at first but says it’s essential to the show’s control/power themes. John is a long-time fan (mentions a Silo-branded backpack/thermos).
Key claims
Memory manipulation is the core control mechanism (alongside gassing/killing). Amnesia is a “soap opera” conceit but is justified by the show’s themes and tech. The “AI” villain is actually Victor (and sometimes Troy) using voice changers; Bernard’s earlier villainy is reframed. The writing is meticulous with foreshadowing (“dominoes falling”).
Notable examples
Juliette’s amnesia and neural-pathway debate; Troy’s identity wipe leading to genocidal behavior; artifacts banned because they trigger memory; lightbulbs missing (unresolved thread); Silo 1’s lift reveal; Troy waking from cryo; the war/attack on Silo 1; Peter Gabriel canonically surviving a blast (theorized link to Silo 17).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOGuest Introductions and Initial Thoughts
0:45 to 2:06
Introduction of guests Ben Travis and John Nugent and their initial reactions to Silo Season 3.
“you have a silo-branded backpack, so you're clearly a longtime fan of the show.”
Amnesia Plot Discussion
2:06 to 3:47
Discussion on the use of amnesia in Silo Season 3 and its impact on storytelling.
“and the ramifications for the rest of the silo.”
Control and Power Dynamics
3:47 to 5:24
Exploration of themes of control, power, and societal structure in the Silo.
“We have to walk up hundreds of levels and you have a lift.”
Neural Pathways and Identity
5:24 to 8:13
Discussion on the relationship between memory, identity, and neural pathways in the context of the show.
“They control the speed at which people can move.”
Character Development and Moral Dilemmas
8:13 to 11:22
Analysis of character motivations and moral complexities, particularly relating to Troy's character.
“and you already have questions of like, well, how long have they been down there?”
Narrative Structure and Future Expectations
11:22 to 13:20
Discussion on the narrative structure of Silo, the integration of timelines, and future expectations for Season 4.
“But yeah, I am really fascinated to see where they go with his character.”
Convergence of Timelines and Character Origins
14:00 to 18:48
The hosts discuss the intertwining narratives and potential character backgrounds in Silo's storytelling.
“of a good kind of dovetailing narrative is when no matter, like you always think, oh my God, I just want to see this story.”
Foreshadowing and Plot Complexity
18:48 to 22:56
An analysis of the meticulous writing and foreshadowing in the series, comparing it to other shows.
“It's the cascade where you think all the pieces fall into place and you realize it was kind of in plain sight all along, but you missed it.”
The Nature of the Villain and Conflict
22:56 to 26:06
Discussion on the show's villain and the shift from AI to human antagonists, exploring themes of trust and deception.
“It's like, okay, that makes sense as like in a big picture sense where this story is heading.”
Silo Set Design and Real-World Parallels
26:06 to 28:00
A look into the set design of Silo and its implications, alongside real-world themes of societal anxiety.
“Yeah, but it's also like, it doesn't feel, that aside, it doesn't feel that far away from real world anxieties and interests.”
Show all 19 chapters
Exploring Silo One's Revelation
28:00 to 30:38
The hosts discuss the impactful reveal of Silo One and its implications.
“And I thought, oh, we're going to see that bit later, obviously.”
Ethical Dilemmas and Character Development
30:38 to 37:10
The conversation dives into moral questions surrounding character actions and motivations.
“And so, yeah, you just have all of these huge contextual questions.”
Narrative Techniques and Emotional Impact
37:10 to 41:05
Hosts analyze the show's storytelling techniques and how they evoke emotional responses.
“And these two characters are looking at each other, theoretically never going to see each other ever again, sequestered into different silos, and you're going to feel how massive that is.”
Title Sequence Analysis
41:05 to 42:00
A detailed discussion on the meaning and artistry behind the Silo title sequence.
“to create something, and I just didn't know if I missed it.”
Analyzing the Title Sequence of Silo
42:00 to 43:26
Explore the significance of the title sequence in Silo and its thematic connections.
“we live in an age where every show has like a title sequence like this.”
Season Three's Impact on the Series
43:26 to 45:05
Discussion on how season three elevates the overall narrative and viewing experience of Silo.
“I mean, we also can't escape the way that we've experienced the show.”
Anticipating Future Episodes and Revelations
45:05 to 47:25
The hosts speculate on future developments in the storyline and character arcs in Silo.
“to see that episode 9, to see the reveals in episode 10 and feel the impact of them, if that is even amplified by the experience of watching it over so many years.”
The Cultural References and Their Significance
47:25 to 49:45
Exploring the cultural references within Silo, including Peter Gabriel’s involvement.
“Exactly, a big sign that just says Silo 1 and an arrow.”
The Evolution of Silo's Narrative Structure
49:45 to 51:18
Discussion on the narrative structure of Silo and the potential future direction of the series.
“Well, the other question, of course, is like Troy's memory has been awakened to a certain extent.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:08Ben Travis:Welcome to Py.plast, your extended guide to every show that matters, and this, our spoiler special for Silo Season 3. Very exciting. Now, obviously, Steph has not watched Silo, because, you know, it's not winter yet, and apparently it's a winter show, and Boydie, of course, is tidy and has not finished it, but that's okay, because I've delved a mile, a mile beneath the earth. deep, deep, deep down into the down deep of the silo and found the dregs of the Empire Office, specifically Ben Travis and John Nugent. Welcome. Thanks, James. That's what a lovely intro. Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome.
0:43Ben Travis:Now, you guys, I'm John especially, you have a silo-branded backpack, so you're clearly a longtime fan of the show. I actually forgot I brought that in specifically today. Oh, very good. But yes, I do have a silo-branded. And a thermos flask, as I recall, as well. Yeah, that's right, yeah. Ben, you have neither. that however you texted me the second you finished the finale of this season to say oh my god this was amazing we must do a special and here we are now yeah a couple of caveats i saw this literally months ago so if my memory is slightly off that is the reason why but well we blame the vitamin d plus of course there's something in the water ben there's something in the water yeah 100 % that but i mean let's talk about the the amnesia thing because when we started uh talking about the show So some of the feedback I got from pilot listeners was like, oh, fuck me, amnesia, really?
1:28Ben Travis:And they did not like it. What did you guys think? Ben, let's start with you. I said the same thing to you, didn't I? When the season started, I was like, I'm so happy it's back. God, I love Silo. I'm so into Silo. Thrilled it's back. Slightly unsure about the, like, Juliet has amnesia. It feels a little bit Neighbours in terms of plotting. It was a real thing in my youth watching Neighbours that every so often somebody would just go to Tasmania and come back with amnesia. was just a thing. But it's so tied into the fundamentals of the show. Why Juliet has amnesia, the fact that that's been purposefully done to her, what the purpose of that is, and the ramifications for the rest of the silo.
2:10And as we see in the finale, everybody, they have mind-wiping technology, which is just the most horrendously dangerous thing you could create, because we've already seen anybody can be made to be anybody with this mind-wiping sort of memory-resistant technology. And so, yeah, it was very slightly skeptical going in. They completely won me over with that storyline because they just smashed it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's true of a lot of things in this show where you can approach it to begin with feeling quite skeptical. I think early episodes of each three of these seasons now have felt a bit like, okay, what's going on here?
2:54Come on, let's pick up the pace. It really rewards patience, I think, and never more so than this third season, which, yes, like all of you, I think was a bit skeptical of the amnesia stuff. It is a classic soap opera conceit, but it's completely tied into this the theme of this show which is about control and power and power structures and the sort of inequality between classes this is you know just another instrument of control from the absolute bastards of silo one who i i mean ben and i were just talking on the way here about the lift in Silo 1, which is not the biggest insult in, you know, this world, but it does feel like, fuck you guys.
3:47You've got a lift. You've got a lift,
3:48Ben Travis:you absolute twats. We have to walk up hundreds of levels and you have a lift. But the level of detail in this show, like Alex on the Empire team was asking us before we left, why is Silo so good? And my sort of big picture answer to that, something I wrote a piece for Empire Online, just to try and say to people, guys, you all need to be watching Silo, whilst also trying to not spoil a single thing beyond literally the first episode of season one, was that this show is so obsessed with the details. It is so nitty gritty about the details of life within the Silo. The hook of episode one, season one, is like, ooh, why are they down there?
4:26And what's in the outside world? And then the rest of that season is like, wait, the more interesting thing than what's out there is like what's happening in here let's burrow further and further down and this show is so obsessed with those details those lived in details but then when it pulls off these bigger moves it feels so seismic that the sight of a lift in silo one can cut like a knife you're like it's a violation of the pact isn't it yeah can't have a lift the pact yeah we just got ai to do it yeah definitely the entire rules by which silo 18 is like slavishly living and and you know sending people out to clean because of violations of the pact and you just fobbed it off gbt yeah jesus christ 100 but it is you're right this show is all about
5:14Ben Travis:control like information has been a tool of control as long as history has been around but what i think is quite interesting here is this kind of a step up from that because as you say, they control the technology. They control the speed at which people can move. You can't have lift because they want you to be essentially stuck on your level. They want you to be able to easily get up to the top of the silo. But not just manipulating information, but manipulating memory. Manipulating your sense of self as a means of control and as a means of reset. Obviously, one means of reset. The other, of course, being, you know, gassing you all to death.
5:45Ben Travis:But what I thought was really interesting about this is, so Juliette is a slightly different case, right? Because her memory is kind of coming back because she's kind of on the drug, but she's not on the drug. So parts of her personality are re-establishing themselves. But then at the end, when we see Daniel slash Troy, who is now like the gen, he's the guy. He's the guy you call when you need to kill a thousand people, right? That's his job. His sense of self is completely gone. And I was fascinated by the idea of this. And I spoke a little bit to Rebecca Ferguson about this. I was on set of this particular series of silo.
6:17Ben Travis:Got to run up and down the staircase. I was very excited. I even had a lovely meal in the canteen with the screen, with the tree. Yeah, it was great. Was it the horrible apocalyptic screen, or was it the like, everything's fine out there screen? It was the apocalyptic screen. Okay, yeah. But the fact is, so I was like, okay, I was saying to her, who are we as people? What makes us us? What is our sense of self? Are we the product of our memories? Because obviously soap operas will tell us one thing, but what is the reality? Like, how much of our past experience feeds into how we react to everyday situations?
6:46Ben Travis:How much of it makes up who we are? So if you strip out someone's past, if you strip out their memory, are they now a fundamentally different person to they were the week before? And interestingly, I went on a date with a psychologist once, and I posed this very question to her. We had a very interesting discussion about neural pathways. And what she was saying was, from a psychologist's point of view, from a neurological point of view, it's not the memories, it's the neural pathways. It's about the path of least resistance, right? So what makes you who you are is your experiences, and it is your memories.
7:18Ben Travis:but these forge neural pathways in your brains. Even if you lose access to your memories, those pathways are still there. And so your thought processes will more than likely still go down the same tracks. So her argument was, even if you lost all your memories, you would still be the same person because their neural pathways would not be erased. Wait, so date one is neural pathways. What does date two do? This gives you a terrifying insight into my dating life. What I do love is that, you know, The micro and the macro scale of this is all totally in sync. So as this season three kind of developed, you got the micro level individual characters, like what happens if we wipe this person's memory and instill something different in them.
8:04But also it's always been a factor of the show, right from the very first episode of like, nobody remembers anything. You just sort of don't question that at the time because it's such a conceit of the whole thing. and you already have questions of like, well, how long have they been down there? Maybe they've been down there so long with such limited access to information that they have just forgotten the outside world. And now we have this additional context that it's, no, everybody's mind was erased as they sort of went into the silo, as they started existing in the silo. So it's a very purposeful reset of the people in that environment.
8:39And so you have these two scales of like, who are we as a big picture society when we no longer remember who we were and are given this fucking AI chat GPT set of rules to live by and then on an individual level who are we when our memories are erased and how does that affect how we live I love that those two things are like speaking to each other and that you've
9:05Ben Travis:they've had multiple resets of the silo and just I love the like the building blocks of it the fact that the reason why you know artifacts are banned is because they're mnemonics. Like, artifacts are a trigger to memory, and they can undo the work of the drug. So if you see a Pez dispenser, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I know who I am. I'm someone who likes sweets. But what I'm very interested in is, how does these, as you say, the neural pathways, how do they play into Troy, as we now know? Because he seems to have had a complete personality change. He does. And is now a, you know, genocidal psychopath.
9:40I mean, maybe that he had like a very analytical personality, had the political side of him. Obviously, I always got the sense that he was a benevolent guy trying to do good within that system. But he is somebody who maybe has a slightly like analytical view of things. Maybe his process is something that if you just completely change the context and raise any sense of like guilt or personal responsibility, is somebody who could be amenable to, well, the very cold logical option in this situation of everybody in silo 17 escaping into the outside world is like yeah the probably the easiest thing to do is to send out the drones and we'll get them
10:18Ben Travis:all it's all about positioning isn't it and like because people will say oh that person is evil i would never do that and i always think like it's all context isn't it so for example like if you see someone being like horribly tortured and there's a torture there you're like oh my god that's horrendous i cannot count since that that person be arrested and then if you contextualize it in a different way. And they play with these things like very, you remember Strange Darlings, right? They play with that whole concept. Like, you spin it around, you say, well, actually that person's kidnapped this person and they're trying to save it.
10:46Ben Travis:And then you recontextualise the motivation and suddenly the crime takes on a different moral dimension. So you can imagine that in this case, Troy, if you will, we don't know what he's been told, what he believes, what he thinks. Perhaps he believes this is the only option for the greater good, that this is a necessary, the greater good. This is a necessary evil. You know, much like Thanos. He's just misunderstood. Yes, I don't think he's exactly like Thanos. Also, we'll just say torture bad. Torture is bad, yeah. The official position of the Pilot TV podcast is that torture is bad. Yes. And here we all are for an hour.
11:23But yeah, I am really fascinated to see where they go with his character. By the way, Troy, a very deliberate choice of name given that he was going out with Helen. Oh yes, I I hadn't seen that. A bit of Greek mythology in there for you. Yeah, that's very good, yeah. A real Greek mythology summer. That, by the way, is completely heartbreaking. When they're, obviously, they're touring different silos,
11:44Ben Travis:and they're speaking, there's the whole thing, like, oh, this text isn't from her. Like, something's amiss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he sees her, and they're just too far apart. Oh, it's heartbreaking. It's horrible. I was thinking about that moment for days afterwards. Like, it really stuck with me. It's extraordinary that these two characters who we just met, like, in a post-credits scene last season, and suddenly I'm like, I will die for these two. Like, these are my ride or dies. You will not tear them apart. And just seeing their faces as they are swept into their respective silos is just utterly heartbreaking.
12:19Ben Travis:Completely testament, I think, to Ashley Zuckerman and Jessica Hennig, because their performances and their chemistry is incredible. And just that episode where they're basically just trapped in an automated Uber together, and they're just chatting and hanging out, and you cannot tear yourself away from it. It's fascinating. Yeah, yeah. And then the sort of devastating final episode where we just catch up with Troy as he is now. And you're, you know, what's so impressive about the storytelling is they don't do any sort of, here's what happens next. You know, you're being left to catch up. You're like, right, okay, so he's been cryogenically frozen.
12:57And this is now the future. And what's happened to Helen, you know? and like there's so many questions that feel a little bit unanswered, especially, you know, Troy's psychology. But with a show like this, I have faith now. I have so much trust in Graham Yost and the writers that they will resolve this. And I mean, I haven't read the books. Ben, I don't think you've read it.
13:21Ben Travis:So I should say I've read Wool, which is the first book, but I deliberately didn't read Shift or Dust because I was enjoying the show so much I didn't want to know what happened. I read Wool years before the show came out. So this season, is Shift. So the first two seasons are Wool. This season is Shift with a little bit of made-up stuff and maybe pulling forward a little bit of dust in it. Because Shift is a prequel. So you've got Wool, which is in the silo. Shift is all prequel. They've had the concurrent sort of intertwining. You've got the origin story and then you've got the stuff that's actually happening in the silo stuff.
13:51Ben Travis:I think that was a very good move. I think you couldn't, it wouldn't have worked on TV to have an entirely prequel series just bang in the middle. So actually I think it works really well because I was in a mark of a good kind of dovetailing narrative is when no matter, like you always think, oh my God, I just want to see this story. I don't want to see the other one. Don't take me away. And then the second you switch, you're just like, no, no, this is the one I want to see. I don't want to go back to the other one because they are both equally compelling. Yes, and I had that a little bit last season when we were switching between 17 and 18.
14:18But what I didn't expect to happen was that the two timelines would converge, which is really remarkable. You know, you really think, okay, well, these are separate stories that are related to the same thing. but no, they will be the one timeline. In season four, I expect we might get some flashbacks, but we are basically going to see, well, I think you see it in the trailer, don't you? It's war. Troy meets Rebecca Ferguson's character, which is like...
14:49Ben Travis:Also, if we think about it, and I don't know whether this is true or not, but bearing in mind that Helen is pregnant when she goes into her silence. So there's a very real possibility that Rebecca Ferguson is one of her descendants. Yes, yes, yes. So then this whole prequel narrative becomes an origin story for the central character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I was thinking that. I was like, okay, is there anyone in the silo who looks a bit like either of these two? Because it's quite a few generations, right, at this point. Well, okay, so this is the question, because there's been a debate on, I was looking on some of the Reddit threads just to try and find some theories.
15:25I am not clear how much time has passed. because we know for sure that he's been, well, we don't even know for sure, I would say. He's been quite genetically frozen long enough to see Solo as a young boy. Yeah. And then into the present, into Juliet's presence. Which is like, he's probably like mid-40s, is Steve's on, at least.
15:53Ben Travis:I would say so. It's supposed to be around 300 years, slightly over 300 years from the closing of the silos to where we begin the show. But then also, I feel like that's what we've been told. Well, exactly, yeah. It's like, who do you trust? Fair. That is fair. I don't know. I'm not believing anything that Victor says, you know? Like, I don't know. But some of the genius of the start of the finale with Troy waking up was I was watching it like, you're receiving answers effectively at that point. Well, we're seeing inside silo one. he was in silo one they are running things within silo one you are getting answers and at the same time just going what the fuck is going on what the fuck is going on initially when he was being unfrozen I was like this is so heartbreaking he is about to be told that Helen is in silo 18 and he can't see her and she's had their baby and he's been frozen for however long and they have a child and he's never met that child and it's like oh that's not the conversation that's happening he doesn't seem to know anything about Helen there are so many other context clues that a lot has happened in the interim but it's presented to you as if that could be a short while after the ending moments of episode 9 and it's not but we don't know how long that gap is we don't know how many times he's been woken up who's the creepy boss man?
17:16Victor Sanovic we see him age a bit over the course of the Silo 1 stuff in the finale. And yet also, we know that he is also being cryogenically put to sleep and often being woken up alongside Daniel Troy because he wants to be. I think he has a personal investment in the whole Helen and Daniel situation. But between all of it, we just have little context clues to go on. We don't know anything for certain. And that is exactly the situation that everybody is in in the silo. Anybody who's digging for information on what they think is happening. All they have are these tiny clues to go on, things to, like, tiny footholds to try and, you know, figure these things out.
18:00But you don't actually know anything. And that is amazing on a storytelling level. But also what we have learned from the previous two seasons is that there's such meticulousness to the writing and there's such foreshadowing. You know, this is not, like, lost. They are not just chucking a fucking, you know, hatch and Homecoming for the Best. This is really planned out. It's really thought through. There is foreshadowing galore. So there will be stuff in season three that we will not realize until next season was instrumental to unraveling the mystery. And that's what I really appreciate. It's just rare to see something that is just properly well-made, properly well-plotted mystery storytelling.
18:48I really appreciate it.
18:50Ben Travis:It's the dominoes falling idea. It's the cascade where you think all the pieces fall into place and you realize it was kind of in plain sight all along, but you missed it. Because you can say, you know, using the lost analogy, when season one ends, you see pans out, you see all the other silos. Like in a traditional network show, they'd have been like, yeah, I'll do the writer room. What does it all mean? Fuck it, we'll work it out next season if we get one. Do you know what I mean? Whereas this is, as you say, it is a puzzle box that has been presented complete and we're just seeing parts of it at a time.
19:17Ben Travis:And I think that really does make a big difference. The dominoes falling idea and the sort of meticulousness of the world punctuated by these huge moments. Honestly, for me, I don't watch TV as comprehensively as you do. But the last show, honestly, that I think that gave me this was early season Game of Thrones. Where it was like, we're seeing characters move across the board. Half of the conversations I don't really understand. Then a massive thing happens and you're like, oh, they were like lining all of these things up with all this little bit of detail about this really rich world, so that at a certain point they just topple one domino and the whole thing just goes...
19:55And that is how I feel with Silo, honestly. The kind of correlation between tiny detail, big moves, very trustworthy at this point, writers moving things around the board to deliver these big impact moments. It's the closest thing to early Game of Thrones. I guess the difference with Game of Thrones is they didn't have the last two books written.
20:20Ben Travis:They didn't know quite where it was going. So they had to slightly make it up as they were going along in the last two seasons, and perhaps that is where they failed. But yeah, it does feel like we are moving towards a finite end, and a definitive end that feels really thought through. And that is just very reassuring as a viewer to feel like you're in safe hands. It's also interesting the way they completely upend the premise of the show each season. Yes. Because, you know, obviously the first one is kind of almost like a whodunit, it's a mystery, what's going on? And even they do it in the first episode where you have a completely different cast.
20:56Ben Travis:You know, that's David O. Yellowow's character, right? He's the central character in that. Rashida Jones. So, but all through, I would say, this season, we have been under the belief that the villain is AI, right? that the idea is that the legacy is a machine and it's thinking like a machine and it's always 10 steps ahead and it knows what it's doing. And then, of course, we realize, no, it's just Victor using a voice changer. So it's just a dude. And sometimes Troy as well. And sometimes Troy. But as Juliet says, you know, we can beat a person. Like, if it's a man, we can outthink this thing.
21:30Ben Travis:It's not all-knowing. It's not all-powerful. You know, we have a chance. And I think that changes the nature of the show again. I mean, incredible Bernard revelation. to be the one to figure out, like, this machine was annoyed at me. I'm an annoying person. This machine was annoyed at me. And that has to be a human thing. Also, great reveal that Bernard was alive. I love that Bernard is alive. Although, as soon as he was back in Alive and he spent four episodes going, I was like, somebody needs to kill Bernard. I'm sorry. This man, his best years are behind him. It's true. It was incredible. Absolutely near-death acting from Tim Robbins.
22:07like his croaky voice is unpleasant. Yeah, but it'd be like, here's a five minute scene. Tim Robbins going, the substance of what he's saying is so integral to this show.
22:21Ben Travis:He's the one who drops the bombs all the time. But like also so within the smarts, the conniving smarts of that character to figure that out. But then Juliet be the person to kind of bring it all home. Because we knew going into season season three that season four was going to be the end but they had shots three and four back to back which thank you so much for doing and it's coming in july next year it's less than a year to wait that is such good news um but even towards the end of season three it was like i i really trust where we're going we're building all these stories are so compelling but i was like i don't really know what the end game of this show is and by the end of the season you go oh okay well it's it's war on silo one it is then for all the questions that have been answered the bigger questions of like true like why they name it in the show the big question is why why why was there an attack who was the attack from feels like an inside job to me why were they so obsessed with trying to pull off this experiment what is the point of all of this and so driving to the heart of that mystery whilst also having Silo 18 be given answers and sort of rise up to try and take Silo 1.
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23:34It's like, okay, that makes sense as like in a big picture sense where this story is heading. It's such a good job of
23:40Ben Travis:nudging us there. I like that idea, the way she makes that bargain and then has no intention of keeping it because it's like they're lying, we're lying, yeah, we're going to attack them. They'll never see it, they'll never see it coming. Yeah, I mean, the why is very interesting and I've dug around a few online theories. I mean, it does feel like Colin Hanks, Elon Musk, by any other name, might have something to do with it. It does, like you were saying, it does feel like that the nuke was pretty expected. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. Like, you know, it was pretty clear that the open day was not an open day.
24:19It was, in fact, just getting people in. Recruitment. Yeah, they were chosen very carefully,
24:23Ben Travis:as were their silos. it felt like it was a societal reset like a very deliberate you know how Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars well fuck it let's just colonize this fucking field with silos full of people in it and we can have our own little world and just wipe out everyone else but then this all follows on from this dirty bomb attack which we have been led to believe was Iran but you know who knows and was it a dirty bomb or was it this whole nanotech situation which we know there is nanotech also when Daniel Troy was waking up from his cryogenics, he had what looked to me like a lot of nano-y stuff encasing his body that was retreating from his face as he was waking up.
25:06So I'm like, who owns this nanotechnology? What is the nanotech doing? Because also when the engineer guys left Silo 18 to go to 17, they were attacked by what it seems like were clouds of nanobots sort of things. And that's also, I think, what was happening in the plane with Daniel's sister. There was like a cloud of stuff sort of attacked her.
25:30Ben Travis:She was definitely attacked by that. So there's like, again, it's given us a lot more to think about. There is something happening with like international tensions. A nuke went off, which definitely seems like it was known by the sort of all the tech bros, possibly instigated by them as well to their own ends of being able to pull off this experiment. And also the nanotechnology stuff and how that all intersects is also still a big unknown. Yeah, it's very interesting how they... I mean, for one thing, it's funny that America is bombing Iran in this show and in real life. That's sort of strange.
26:14Ben Travis:Art imitating life. Yeah, but it's also like, it doesn't feel, that aside, it doesn't feel that far away from real world anxieties and interests. You know, our tech billionaires are literally building bunkers right now. Maybe not to the size and scale of the silo. That we know of. That we know of. But I was reading about Mark Zuckerberg's plans for a bunker in Hawaii. And it's like, I think 10 or 12 levels below the surface of the earth. it's fully staffed it's like insane the plans he has so you know it doesn't feel that far-fetched I mean a bit far-fetched but not that far-fetched very interesting this is an Apple TV show Apple like oh yes we built a fully functioning silo for the show I mean I've been there and it is in fact a mile beneath the earth it's quite extraordinary didn't you interview Tim Cook I did in fact I interviewed Tim Apple on the set in his personal bunker obviously he's no longer the CEO of Apple because he's now living in the bunker but yeah this is at Hodderston Studios it's up in Hertfordshire and they have but essentially it's the whole silo like not quite to scale but they have all the little sort of like the habitation rings you've got engineering you've got all these different areas there was a whole other thing which they flooded for all the water sequences in season 2 and then you have the huge staircase in fact there are two of them there's one obviously surrounded by green screen so they can put it on whatever level they want and then there's the one with the big blown up section from season two in there as well.
27:46Ben Travis:But what was really interesting going around there is I basically had free reign to just wander the silo, which was very, very cool. And I walked around Sims' apartment and all things like that. But I was going into one bit, they went, no, no, no, no, come back, come back. They said, you can't go in there. Ooh, silo one. And I was just like, oh, what are we? And I thought, oh, we're going to see that bit later, obviously. And they were like, no, no, no, you can't go in there. And that was silo one. And they didn't tell me what it was at the time, but that was silo one. And it was like, the second I walked in there, to be fair you wouldn't want that as cool as that experience yeah I wouldn't want to have seen it you wouldn't want to have seen it yeah that would have ruined the show for me but that yeah and now obviously in retrospect I realise why they won't let me in there yeah I mean Silo 1 it really hits you doesn't it it's like they've they've really like they pulled that reveal so well just like what the fuck is this place guys it looks like an apple shop it does it really does look like an apple showroom it's 100 % there's a genius bar at the back I'm sure on one of the shots so yeah Yeah, it's quite an extraordinary thing.
28:44But, you know, those reveals, they feel so massive. And they point to those bigger questions as well. So if Silo 1 is mega swish, why have you built all the other silos to be a bit shit? Why are they so shit? And I'm still drawn to the why of, what is the experiment here? Is this an experiment where you are truly seeing the end of the world is an inevitability somewhat imminent because of all the international tensions we have this idea for this thing we just need to do it now before it's too late is it uh a sort of elon musk style um just mad rich person who's gone i have taken it upon myself to reshape the nation of the notion of society and this is how i'm going to do it is there a benevolence to it at all because as you were saying james the context of everything shifts your moral compass on things and they torture always bad killing people running out of silos always bad and yet everything that's happened so far it's been all about the sort of effectively fascist control within the silo if you break the rules of the silo you're out you're dead yeah and but you've also understood the like oh well the context of this is the world has been destroyed and this is the last vestiges of humanity.
30:09And you see in Silo 2, if it goes wrong, everybody dies, and that is the stakes here. And that completely shifts with this season when you see that, oh no, the Silo 17 guys were intentionally murdered, straight up murdered, for this sense of control by Silo 1. We still, again, don't know exactly why they did that, why they want people to die when they leave the Silo, what the other safeguards they have in place are, because we're told that a safeguard sort of failed. And so the backup safeguard was like, murder drones. And so, yeah, you just have all of these huge contextual questions. And when, was it Victor, the old guy?
30:50When he killed himself in the finale, I don't know how this reflects on me. I was like, good. You seem to me like an absolutely terrible person who has somehow just now noticed that you were doing something just so completely wild and horribly unethical. But it's extraordinary
31:07Ben Travis:that without any attempt to unpick what he hath wrought, he just takes a quick easy out. It's just like, you could fix things. And the fact that now Silo one is like, we don't have a leader. Quick, get Troy out of the deep freeze. But he does like, you know, he has got the kindness to say, oh, by the way, Troy, the woman you're looking for is Helen. Here you go, bye. By the way, she's been dead for 300 years, but you know. you imagine if he was driven by some kind of moral outlook of like i have to do this to save humanity disaster is coming i'm not sure he would have done what he did i'm like was this purely an ego trip on your part is that has it become too much because you've realized the the weight of everything you've done it's so beyond redemption for your own egos i mean i i i'm still not 100 % clear what his role in the wider project was.
32:04I mean, he is sort of like spoken of as a
32:07Ben Travis:founder, but yeah, and he's the architect of obviously all the memory stuff. He's the doctor who was administrating the memory stuff on Daniel's sister. So, you know, he has clearly got this scientific background. But I my feeling is maybe he's the administrator. He's like the sort of you know the face of the operation and maybe it's colin hanks's character who was the the the prime mover perhaps um i mean there's there's a lot of questions like that i really want to know i'm desperate to know what the world looks like because you know we were led to believe that the air quality outside the silo was terrible i think we can now assume that's not the case now it feels like when people go out they just they get poised they get gassed yeah they get they have poison dropped on them.
32:56And I mean, yes, Atlanta as a city was nuked, so there would be some radiation from that. But 300 years is a long time. But not after 300 years. But is it just Atlanta that was nuked or did that set off the sort of chain reaction of nuclear bombs that left the entire world in ruins? Or is there still just a thriving society existing beyond? Like, we don't know. We, like, I want to know.
33:20Ben Travis:Yes, we want to know and we will. We will hopefully find out all of these things. Yeah. And if the rest of the world is fine, they obviously will know there was a nuclear explosion in Atlanta, that was a horrible tragedy, whatever. That doesn't necessarily mean that people know that there was a silo project and there's a bunch of people living on the ground. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. So if there is normal civilization out there further away, do they have any idea of what is happening? Well, this may explain why they are very happy to kill thousands of people rather than let anyone get out. because if someone gets out and then, you know, pops down to B &Q and tells someone, you've got a problem, haven't you?
33:58So... Yes, that would be very interesting if there's a B &Q scene. I'm looking for the good tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any?
34:07Ben Travis:Yeah. But, you know, what you were saying about the idea of the, you know, the safeguard and stuff, I love the fact that it reframes Bernard because obviously he's the villain going through seasons one and two and it reframes it as, yeah, he is, but he's a guy carrying an uncariable burden that he knows that if he doesn't maintain control with an iron grip, everyone is dead. So he is, to a certain extent, oppressing people for their own good to keep them alive. And Camille ends up in exactly the same situation. She is so lonely. She's the only one who carries this secret. The head of IT carries this awful secret.
34:43Ben Travis:They can't talk to anyone else about it. And how do you carry that weight and how do you balance what you then have to do with your own morality and with the way other people obviously will then perceive you. Yeah, it's such skillful storytelling because, you know, in season one, Bernard is just, he's effectively twiddling his mustache. He's that kind of villain. He just seems like such a bad guy. It's almost a cliche and it's just like, there are no shades to this guy. He's just trying to be evil. And to be able to do that heel turn and to make it feel believable is really impressive because, yeah, you do totally see where he's coming from.
35:21I mean, he's a bit of a dick. Like, that's just his character. But he's not, I think, fundamentally evil. And, yeah, what they did with Camille's character in this season as well was really, like, compelling. Just how she was, yeah, gripped by this moral quandary. Ruthless, but not, like, evil.
35:40Ben Travis:Like, she's pragmatic. What I thought was quite more interesting is her husband. It's like Judge Sims' turn because he immediately turns on her, sequesters Bernard away, undoes what she's doing to Julia, sets Julia up as a kind of folk hero so she cannot easily be killed, so she gets elected mayor. So he's doing all this good stuff. But then the question, of course, is, are you doing all this because you think it's right? Or are you just a bit buttsore that your wife got chosen and you weren't and you're feeling horribly emasculated? And also through the emotional side of things because his drive through the whole season is my son is going to forget who I am.
36:15You do what you've been told to do. And this is what I think is so great about the show, about the Camille stuff, about everything, is that it doesn't just tell you things, it lets you experience them and feel them. So to have a character like Camille this season, it's one thing to be shown Bernard in season one and two and shown this is what the head of IT has to do. Now you're going to watch somebody be forced to become the new Bernard. You're going to feel what it feels like to want to be a normal member of this society, being forced to do all these things that you don't want to do, but you know the consequences are going to be disastrous.
36:54We're going to make you experience that through this character. With Judge Sims, it becomes, you're going to feel through him that the most tragic thing for him is that his son will forget who he is. And so everything is through the lens of that emotion. and John and I were saying even on the walk over the big big picture stuff if somebody just told you straight out in season one oh yeah there was a nuke you'd be like okay that makes sense possibly even slightly underwhelming as an answer for the big question of like what happened in the outside world it was a nuke no what we're going to do is we're going to make you experience that we are going to embed you in with these characters for a whole season deliver all of this backstory get you invested in this personal relationship, in this romance, and you are going to feel the impact of the nuke when it drops.
37:45And these two characters are looking at each other, theoretically never going to see each other ever again, sequestered into different silos, and you're going to feel how massive that is. Like you, John, I was thinking about that for days afterwards. I could not shake that moment. It rattled me so much. And that is so different to somebody just telling you, oh, there's a nuke. Or, yeah, if you're ahead of IT, you kind of had to do some bad stuff. The experiential nature of the storytelling in Silo, by just letting you exist in the world with those characters, is part of why the show is so good, and why I'm so happy it takes its time.
38:21It's not rushing to give you information. It is really inhabiting you within these spaces and letting you kind of just exist in that world to feel the complexities of everything that it's doing narratively. And part of that is just expanding upon the source material,
38:38Ben Travis:which I think they do very, very skillfully. Obviously, Hugh Howey's involved in this, but his books are much more stripped back. There's a lot less narrative in the books than there are in the show because there's many, many episodes to draw it out of. I think more like ideas, Griffin. Yeah. The balance of ideas and emotion here, I think, is what's so compelling. And by the very nature, for example, in this season, having to have a present day or future, whatever you want to call it, narrative in there as well, they have to manufacture the whole thing with the light bulbs and all these various things.
39:05Ben Travis:There's a whole storyline going on there, you know, and what Camille ends up doing, you know, which is based off a few ideas in the books, but they turn it into a whole story arc and it just gives you more texture and more depth. I have a question about the light bulbs because this was a thread this season that I was like half following and half not. Because you can't make them. So, because again, it was a bit of a season one throwback to the fact that season one is basically a murder mystery that happens to be taking place in the silo, except it doesn't just happen to be taking place. that the murder has happened because they're in silo.
39:35So this was like a murder mystery. And we, you know, followed the thread and it went back to supply. And then it was like, there's all the light bulbs are missing. That is extremely bad. If we have no light bulbs, we can't make our food. So there is a ticking clock on the silo itself because we have so few light bulbs left. The light bulbs were being taken in order to make some kind of device. was it but we never saw what the light bulbs were being taken for i felt like they kept teasing us of them following the thread of like the light bulbs have been taken for this and i don't think we got the answer to that i i'm a bit lost on where we ended up with the light bulbs yes i don't really recall i mean there are some rebels involved uh but i don't know where that that thread ends up and maybe this is how b and q uh features in season four i don't know they just they just really stock up I mean it is interesting as well that is you know that is a sort of very practical consideration in a post-apocalyptic universe but yes I don't know what that is I think that's something I mean I hope they don't drop it it definitely isn't something that was resolved
40:43Ben Travis:right like it feels like there was the whole conspiracy behind it but we don't fully understand the nature of that conspiracy again maybe I'm wildly off base but I kept expecting like a reveal shot of we have built this contraption mainly out of light bulbs The lightbulbs. The big light machine. I don't know. Maybe it is going there, but I feel like it was intimated that they had been using the lightbulbs to create something, and I just didn't know if I missed it. You were hoping for a lightbulb moment. Yeah, right. Can we briefly talk about how fucking good the title sequence for Silo is? Because this is, for me, a categorical never-skip-the-intro.
41:23Ben Travis:The intro is so good. It's a scene-setter. With the Nautilus motif. and well there's so many motifs going on in it that like as the season went on i was like noticing more and more every week that is happening in that title sequence so it gives you sort of uh sort of cross-section views of the silo itself with heat signatures of people walking around inside the silo at the same time that looks like a light bulb and at the same time it looks like a DNA strand. And at the same time, it looks like a brain with like synapses firing and all of this layered imagery that could just be, you know, we live in an age where every show has like a title sequence like this.
42:04And sometimes it's just stuff. Sometimes it's just stuff that fits in the world of that show. This I was like, oh, you're actually telling us what the show is about before we understand that that's what it is with these images that just subtly are like shifting, morphing from one thing to the next. And it's like, it is about brains and memory and it is about light bulbs and light bulbs are a replacement for ideas. And it's about the DNA of society and it's also about the silo. And it's so good.
42:35Ben Travis:It's very, very, it's a great title sequence, has to be said. That and that this year in House of the Dragons title sequences, I thought were both genius. The tapestry. The tapestry that weaves episode by episode to show you what's happening, what has been before, and what is to come. Indeed. So, I mean, like, this series of Sider then, are we thinking it's the best yet? Are we saying it's the best yet? I mean, I think the last two episodes of season three are two of my favorite TV hours that I've watched in years. I'm suddenly like, this season has elevated the whole show to like sort of, you know, all-time greatness for me.
43:19And I really hope that season four pulls it off. I really hope that they sustain this level because I'm just like, I'm all in now. I am fully in. Yes. John's skipping into Silo 1. You've got me. I'm here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I absolutely love it. I think it probably is. I mean, we also can't escape the way that we've experienced the show. If you're listening to this and like us, started watching season one when it came out and then waited a long ass time for season two and enjoyed that and the mystery of Solo and then waited another long ass time. And now and you waited until season three, episode nine to experience that, having been there from the beginning.
44:01One of us, one of us. The payoff of that, of like four or five years of watching this story very slowly unfolding it to experience that moment. we should be in a club of some kind maybe buried underground yeah some sort of clubhouse beneath the surface of the earth
44:18Ben Travis:lots of stairs perhaps some kind of rule book not many labels some sort of pact and so I think in the way that we've experienced this this has been the biggest season of the show for me this is like with John sort of taking my obsession up to the next level I'm so interested what it would be like for people now who because it feels like there's more noise about Silo than ever because everyone's going, oh my god, it's so good, you guys, you need to get caught up. For people binging it, I wonder how different that experience feels because the storytelling is still slow burn, but there is an additional slow burn to just the week by week and then a year and a half, two years between seasons to get you to this point.
45:00But I don't know if that even amplifies how long we've been waiting for this to see that episode 9, to see the reveals in episode 10 and feel the impact of them, if that is even amplified by the experience of watching it over so many years. Well, some of us waited longer than others, Ben. You got the screeners. Yeah, I too got the screeners quite a long time ago. And I have to say, to pull back the curtain, Apple's press screeners website is fantastic. It is, yes. They put on episodes weeks or months before its release, which is so good if you're a reviews editor but it does mean I've had to watch, I watched the entirety of this season over the course of about a week.
45:47Oh, boo-hoo, that is such a silo one problem. You are a silo 18er, scrabbling week by week for the episode. I was, honestly, I was like, I've been sitting on it for ages. As soon as I finished, I messaged you and was just like, James, I need to talk to you about it. I have to talk to you about it. And then, yes, as soon as you... I did the same to you. Yeah, yeah. But it's a show that demands, if you've been in that world, if you've lived in the silo like we have, then when you see those episodes, you're like, I need to discuss this with people because it's so good.
46:17Ben Travis:And it is the immersiveness of the world. Like, it's one of these things. This is why I was so excited to go on set, to be honest, because the idea of being able to wander around the silo when it's such a vividly drawn universe, I mean, that was very, very thrilling. But there are so many secrets that we have yet to understand. Like, if we look at what's going to happen in season four. So, the war against Silo 1 is going to be a big part of this. We're only really now beginning to understand the nature of the digger void. And I think it's fairly safe to say that Chekhov's diggers will probably be, at some point, utilized in the final season.
46:50Ben Travis:I mean, if you're going to get to silo one and you've still got the great big fuck-off diggers that dug your silo, might be able to use those. And I did wonder if the deep, you know, the big hole, the silo one people are like, don't walk inside the big hole. If you walk inside the big hole, I wonder if that connects back to Silo 1. Yeah, because you've got the door, haven't you? You've got the big door. The mysterious door. If you walk through the door, we will kill you. It's like, you've said that about 10 different doors at this point. I do wonder if the big underground, big circle door where the voice speaks to you, I kind of feel like through there is like, directly to Silo 1, this way, please.
47:25Exactly, a big sign that just says Silo 1 and an arrow. Well, it's a bit like that Simpsons bit of like, what is your obsession with my forbidden closet of mystery? yes the big secret for me we haven't discussed it but I'm desperate to talk about it is Peter Gabriel is canonically part of Silo 17 yes the showrunners confirmed that he survived the blast wow which Silo ended up in but he was with all the big weeks so he might be in Silo 1 did you say he was definitely in 17 17 I think yeah right this is what oh so he probably is dead well this is what Troy killed Peter Gabriel what the fuck the last thing Solo saw as a child was Peter Gabriel dying well because I've been there are genuine Reddit theories about Peter Gabriel like influencing the course of Silo 17 this is amazing like people are just singing Salisbury Hill in that silo but then joking aside I found it so fascinating this season to go from the flashback narrative where they are talking about the silos in theory and being theoretical about how we do this and what we do with memory and realizing that every little decision that they make becomes part of just a general way of life in the show that we have spent three seasons watching.
48:49There's something about how much they invest, again, in the details of silo life that it takes the show out of the realm of being just ideas-based because you understand, you feel the reality of actual life in the silo. It feels like an actual society rather than just a series of vague sci-fi ideas. And to feel the little things from the outside world that are tiny details that then become fundamental things in the silo life, like potentially Peter Gabriel bringing music into that silo would be a thing. Yeah. I wonder what other celebs might have made it to the silo.
49:26Ben Travis:Oh, there's got to be at least a Kardashian in there somewhere. Surely. Yeah, without a doubt. But it's like a Noah's Ark thing. It's like, surely you need one of everyone. You need like... A Kardashian, like one of the Gleasons, a Skarsgård. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All the dynasties. Yeah. Everyone represented. 21st century power structures. Well, the other question, of course, is like Troy's memory has been awakened to a certain extent. He's beginning to remember. He's beginning to believe. What does that mean? He's going from Troy, cold, hard Troy, just sort of melting and becoming Daniel again and crying thinking about Helen I'm going to cry about it now Jesus Christ well there's a I don't know if you've seen the season you sent me the season 4 trailer yeah I was like John you may have got all the screeners early but we got to watch the end of the sort of end tag of the season was like here's your season 4 trailer yes and there is there is a showdown between Juliet and Troy and Juliet is like who are you and he's like I don't know so maybe he's been full mind wiped maybe he doesn't know maybe he truly doesn't know I think he's going to have yeah a pretty serious identity crisis in season 4 whatever happens and the other thing from that trailer that gets me really excited is like okay if this was the flashback narrative of creating the silos we are now theoretically watching us heading towards the end of the silos we are going to get the Helen story being bundled into Silo 18 which will be you know a payoff for a character we've come to really care about possibly could take us down here are the generations that get you to Juliet if we start to learn the identity of Helen and Daniel's child and how that reverberates through the silo over the years but also we'll just be a big picture look at like here's what the first days, weeks, years of the silo were that's a bit of the story that we are totally unaware of at the moment Silo year one that could be a whole show I'd watch the shit out of that, are you kidding me?
51:24it's just Peter Gabriel just strumming his guitar. Kill Peter Gabriel, we're sick of it. We need the Peter Gabriel safeguard. I'd rather no music exist ever
51:33Ben Travis:than Peter Gabriel sing his songs again. Oh, no, it's all right. Apple inserted Bono into Silo 15 against our will and there was nothing we could do about it. They ran out of the silo in seven days. Fantastic. Well, we have run out of time, but that was our Silo Chat. We hope you enjoyed that. Well, I'm sure we're about to talk about season four when it airs next summer. Yeah, see you back here next year. Yes, see you back here in Silo 1. Pilot out.
From the publisher
If you’ve been watching the third season of Apple TV’s Silo (and if you haven’t then this spoiler pod is probably not the place to start) then you’ll be well aware that it ALL kicks off in those last two episodes, bringing a perfect end to the show’s best season yet. James sat down with Ben Travis and John Nugent to sift through the rubble of all that transpired this time around and, with Season 4 already in the can and due to arrive next July, speculate on what’s to come in the show’s final series.
